Javier Pacheco's Response to Keith Olsen's Q&A.

[Barbara]

Because of all the excellent thoughts posted on this subject, not another word really needs to be said but I just want to make three points.

quote:

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But honestly, I didn't especially enjoy Keith Olsen's Q&A because I thought he seemed abrasive and did show a lack of empathy.

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1. I agree with Les that this issue is not about Stevie and Lindsey's worthiness of fame - it's about Javier and Keith and the overall tone of Keith's responses in his Q&A.

2. Maybe Lindsey brought more to the table (in Keith's estimation) than anyone in Fritz because of his talent for "making records". Since he was not only an excellent musician but knew how to make records - I think this mattered to Keith.

3. There's a saying that it's not what a person says, or what a person does, in the end it's how a person makes you feel that's important. I think Keith's somewhat arrogant and patronizing tone in his Q&A (and in a public forum to boot!) embarrassed and insulted Javier and tended to compound any slights and injustices he's been harboring all these years.
Barbara



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"You can heal someone's soul, you don't even know why."
Turn It On

[Edited 2 times, lastly by Barbara on August 31, 2000]

[Janet]

Ok,

Well I wasn't around in 1973 so I dont know. But if you take the cover of B/N...I mean..that isnt showing two serious artists at work..it shows two young beautiful naked people pressed against each other..so I ASSUMED..yes..they were marketed as lovers.

I dont think this is a fight for THEM to redeem themselves as artists at ALL! This is about them starting out..what caught Keiths eye...why they were picked at all. No one can say they didnt prove themselves worthy after they made records and did live shows..and now in 2000 they are both legends really.

But in 1970-71 it was a different story...what is being discussed is why Javier was left behind and two of his white pretty bandmembers were chosen to become the "power duo". He feels bitter and hes stabbing at many different reasons...but in truth he doesnt have one. In truth it was just that S/L had something Javier didnt...and thats life..again. I feel bad that Javier loved music so much and wanted so much to share his musical dream and passion and never really got the chance. Its a shame he needs to blame Keith...and for Keith...doing what he does...it can be a swarmy business and he probably just wanted S/L THATS IT..but that cant be wrong..doing his job cant be the wrong thing to do. So no one is right. No one is wrong. Javier is bitter..Keith is probably not really thinking about it right now...

And as for S/L/..who now lead totally seperate lives...only they know what happened between them..how real it was..how strong it was. How long it really happened. We can only guess at that really..but I dont think that has anything to do with their musical merit..which never has to be defended.

[Karen]

quote:

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Olsen wants you to believe he was fair-minded and that he gave all the members of Fritz ample thought and consideration. That is pure atrophied cow dung. He saw us perform once, one set of material. He had firmly focused on only two persons. Contrast that with Bill Graham, who'd expressed interest in the entire group. Curiously, Mr Graham never opined that only S&L were worthy of promotion--he was looking at the whole of Fritz, not simply pretty faces. Olsen conveniently overlooks the
well-documented reality of Rock music's star-making machinery and the patterns of racism pervading all aspects of the entertainment industry. Afterall, it is no coincidence that the chief moguls of that world are white and that Hispanics constitute less than one percent of all music venues.

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After reading Javier's rebuttal, I really don't understand why most of this discussion has turned into a debate about S&L's talent. Javier is just trying to respond to some of Keith's comments in the Q&A. His beef is with Keith and his decision to separate S&L from Fritz. He just doesn't feel that Keith is being honest as to the criteria he used in the selection process. He is basically comparing two producers (Bill Graham & Keith Olsen) who happened to have opposing views on the future of Fritz. He isn't saying anything that most of us don't already know about the industry. Just look at the albums that Olsen has produced. Doesn't he basically go for the proven pop sound that is commercially appealing? It's quite possible that he also had a look in mind and that S&L fit that specific look. Isn't this all part of the business? I mean...if they couldn't find the look, then they created the look. They are doing the same thing today (and certain boy bands come to mind). This is nothing new.

The 70's was a different era and I have to agree with Javier's comments about Hispanics (even though I totally hate this word) in the music industry. I am Puerto Rican and I am not from Spain, yet I'm lumped into this Hispanic category. Yes...I was really bothered by this years Census, but this is not the place to discuss it. Anyway, if you look back at the 70's, there really aren't many Latins in the music industry. Okay...there was Santana, but he was the exception. There was also Julio Iglesias, but he was only popular in Latin countries. There might have been more but I can't think of the names at this moment. Anyway, I think Javier has a point. Then again, would Fritz have become as popular as a whole had they been given a shot? Ultimately, the decision that Keith made turned out to be in his favor. Whether Keith made a decision based on race...well, that's debatable. Javier may see it this way and it's his own opinion. I really don't think that he is trying to belittle S&L's work in any way. He's just trying to respond to what he feels were inaccuracies in Keith's responses.

Please don't take any of my comments in the wrong way. Everyone's comments are extremely interesting and I just wanted to add a different view. That's all

-Karen

[BBALLGYPSY17]

Going back to how they were marketed-
You would have to be naive to think that they were NOT marketed as acouple:rolleyes osn't the photo say it all.And saying they were marketed as a couple is nither here nor there as far as people having an opinion about them or having that be an advantage or disadvantage.
That cover probably through the public off a bit,I think that even may be the reason for the poor sales.How many people aren't going to turn completely red at the counter because of the cover while they are checking it out;they were probably so embarresed they didn't want to go through with it so they left it alone.When I checked out the bootleg of it my face was flushed.
Now if I was alive back then it would have appealed to me for two reasons 1.the obvious they are attractive people and a great looking couple 2. doing something that radical on a cover;cool:;point is that's just a cover and the public dosn't want to go past an image which is a shame cause I think that that album is brilliant.
Javier was just jealous ,but getting all angry about something that happpened 20 years ago won't make it better.Did he straight out blame Keith for being racist or what???

"races are run some people win some people always have to lose....."-BN
LOL TO ALL
-alex-

[Edited 1 times, lastly by BBALLGYPSY17 on September 02, 2000]

[David R]

I don't know what to think? All of it makes sense but I have to add my three cents

Ok, Stevie and Lindsey made Buckingham Nicks and it didn't so well, Polydor dropped them from the label. After awhile their tour started picking up a little. I believe it was Fleetwood Mac "John" "Christine" and "Mick" that helped get S&L exposer that helped them become famous. Who knows if it wasn't for Fleetwood Mac maybe they wouldn't have become famous as they are today i believe it was the band "FM" that brought them to the point in their lifes that they are at now. As people already said also if it wasn't for Fritz there wouldn't have been such a famous "Fleetwood Mac" But maybe Keith did see talent and a chemistry between Lindsey and Stevie. I don't know about the racial aspect of the music industry at the time because I wasn't born then. But No One can speak for Keith and what he was thinking.

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Addicted To The Ledge Not The Web,
--David R

[Jessica Leigh]

Holy shizat... i cannot believe that. i just can't. my gosh. Javier has got some issues. i guess we all have issues but i'm really confused about what he was trying to do by writing that letter. wow. wow. wow. that's just too heavy. wow.


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phoenician phoenician phoenician!! hahahaahahaa

[Joshua]

This is my reply...short and sweet....

The Music Biz is the Music Biz, some people make it, some people don't...

"Races are Run, Some People Win, Some People Always Have to Lose..."

To me, these lyrics can be interpreted into this situation that has been brought to our attention....

I play guitar, I have been in lots of bands, some get somewhere, some dont go anywhere, I have been in bands where members have split to find fame in other promissing markets, and never to be heard from again....

I am not bitter about any of these things, and pretty ppl do sell records, teen pop sensations and all that...BUT, Lindsey and Stevie had so much talent that even if Keith didnt think they were a gorgeous couple, some where, some time, they would have caught a break....

this was supposed to be short and sweet, but almost turned out long and winded....sorry!

Patiently waiting for my break....

**joshua**



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...and rollin` the FLEETWOOD, that's how I MAC...

[BBALLGYPSY17]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joshua:
[B]This is my reply...short and sweet....

The Music Biz is the Music Biz, some people make it, some people don't...

"Races are Run, Some People Win, Some People Always Have to Lose..."

To me, these lyrics can be interpreted into this situation that has been brought to our attention....

I play guitar, I have been in lots of bands, some get somewhere, some dont go anywhere, I have been in bands where members have split to find fame in other promissing markets, and never to be heard from again....

I am not bitter about any of these things, and pretty ppl do sell records, teen pop sensations and all that...BUT, Lindsey and Stevie had so much talent that even if Keith didnt think they were a gorgeous couple, some where, some time, they would have caught a break....

this was supposed to be short and sweet, but almost turned out long and winded....sorry!

Patiently waiting for my break....

**joshua**


Joshua-
Couldn't have said it better myself I put the same lyrics in my other post above.This is about him being ticked he didn't get noticed Maybe he wasn't Keiths "Cup of Tea" in his own words.It sickens me that this is still an issue with him
As far as them being talented enough to go on by themselves WITHOUT A DOUBT I AGREE!!! They would have made it some way or thee other.You can't question talent and they have tons to spare
LOL
-alex-

[Jessica Leigh]

quote:

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Originally posted by ThePenguin:
[QUOTE]
It is curious that even back then he was able to detach them from the music and at the same time project that they would become the famous composers they are now, even though at the time they hadn't written anything of their own (with the exception of Stevie's pair of songs, which I don't believe swayed his thinking then). So he wants you readers to believe that this great leap of faith was based entirely upon his perception of their potential talent as a dynamic duo.

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Uhhhhhh didn't stevie have LOTS of songs of her own back then? if i remember correctly, i have some demos that maybe weren't "fritz demos" as they are labeled but were pretty old. I mean i don't know of any released recordings where Stevie sounded as young as she did in oh See the World Go By or When Shall We Love Again to name a few. These songs were obviously old. maybe ol' Javier didn't know about them because he was a little intimidating so Stevie never shared them with him. Maybe keith had so much faith because she HAD shared them with him and he really dug them. Who knows... but i'm sure that i heard that Stevie had more than 2 songs back then. hmmmmm... i think he has a selective memory here. quite convenient in a rebuttal.


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phoenician phoenician phoenician!! hahahaahahaa

[Janet]

I think Javier meant that Stevie had two songs in the live shows she would sing. Not that she only had 2 songs she had written..Im sure by 70--she had quite a few..being as prolific as she is.

But If Keith were going to a show to see Stevie and Lindsey...he would have heard one or two of Stevies songs performed live..right? I thought tho..she did ONE of hers...I dont remember. But I think thats what he meant.

[ThePenguin]

As I mentioned, I had invited Javier to come to The Ledge and see the responses. He sent this to me today and asked that I post it.

- Marty

quote:

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I have purused the Ledge responses to my rebuttal letter. I am not offended by peoples' perceptions, but some seem to shoot right from the hip, and they haven't bothered to read the Fritz Q&A, they haven't done their homework.

Most of the writers are very thoughtful. But please, I am not bitter, just weary. I haven't been nurturing hatred for 30 years. Who could survive such rancor?

I have made that clear in the Q&A. I simply wanted to correct errors about the Fritz histories. I don't begrudge S&L anything. I don't feel any jealousy and don't need to. Les from San Diego has probably the best understanding of what I have been saying.

My anger is directed at people like Olsen who lack empathy and at a sanguine music business that thrives on ignorance, racism, sexism, even (at times) violence.

That is what I would like to change. To some this may appear quixotic but that's o.k. If my diatribes offend people, then they are not seeing the forest. The bottom line is you have to have heard the real Fritz so that you will see how phony Olsen's comments really are. Furthermore, I am sure that once people have had an inkling of what Fritz actually sounded like before their breakup, they will understand if not concur with my position. You might call me immodest, but I think S&L could have well made a name for themselves in Fritz. We were that good! Fritz could have become very big--a homegrown American band. Without S&L there was no more Fritz--they were an important part of the sound. The music still stands up to scrutiny thirty years later. It makes a lot of the latter stuff seem like fluff (sorry, that's this musician's opinion.) The day is coming when I will feel compelled to share some of it with the fans so that they can judge for themselves whether or not Fritz really "sucked." I think not.

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[Jo and Jensen]

Oooh, we would love to hear those Fritz songs. Javier could sell them on The Penguin and make a pretty penny...he could make a killing on eBay!
Since he wrote most of the songs and recorded them in concert, he has the right to sell them, right?
What a wonderful idea. :-) I hope he seriously considers it. Music is meant to be shared.

[BBALLGYPSY17]

Fritz didn't suck I'm sure they didn't because of Stevie,Lindsey,and Javier See I think that I must have misunderstood Javier a bit getting a little hostile and defensive(sorry about that LOL)I'm really protective of my opinions on things and basically I thought he was saying SnL sucked ,but he wasn't. As far as his relationship with Keith none of us got to see that so Javier if it was a slap in the face it was a slap in the face and thanks a lot(wherever you are for answering are questions in the first place!!!

LOL

Alex

[Edited 1 times, lastly by BBALLGYPSY17 on September 07, 2000]