Brett Tuggle Dishes the details to Rolling Stone

[BigAl84]

https://www.nme.com/news/music/stevie-nicks-fleetwood-mac-lindsey-buckingham-havent-had-any-communication-since-his-heart-attack-2785964?fbclid=IwAR0Lbt9x_Un9n9wq2JVHPBENXdo2qwB2204ZLD9a6-dd88v24bTuPKJH_VA

So now it wasn't just her that wrote Buckingham after the heart attack but apparently the whole band?...which isn't what she said last time referring to this letter.

"Nicks said that Buckingham’s heart attack “was serious” and that she and her Fleetwood Mac bandmates “wrote to him and told him that he’d better get well”.

Asked if Buckingham had acknowledged the letter they sent, Nicks said that he “wrote a kind of group letter to us all” in return.

“None of us have had any communication with him since,” she said, adding: “You know, it lasted 43 years, so we had a really, really good run.”

But Mick has had contact with him since as we learned earlier this week.


Is she even capable of making a coherant statement? It's either a group letter or it was not a group letter. I love how she somehow lobs the ball back in his court like it's up to him if they hear from one another. You had him fired from the band, do you seriously expect to be greeted with a dozen roses?

You know what would be more helpful than anything? If she could just stop talking about this. She has her own project coming out, why TF is Lindsey even getting dragged into this latest round of press.

[BigAl84]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/brett-tuggle-keyboard-fleetwood-mac-david-lee-roth-interview-1073409/

[BombaySapphire3]

So it basically confirms Stevie' complete metamorphosis into a harridan that took over Fleetwood Mac and demanded Lindsey's firing and that she apparently even lied in her new interview with the L.A. times about the letter that she personally sent him after his heart attack.Sheesh what a piece of work.

[Macfan4life]

Great interview. Thanks for sharing. I knew he was talented but did not realize how many more artists he worked with.

Stevie sure is vengeful. You are with me or against me. To get him bounced off the Mac tour because he worked with Lindsey is pathetic.
None of the article is really news. We all scratch our heads how Christine allowed Lindsey to be fired but she did not even stick up for this guy who played her parts when she was there and was not there. He was just more road kill from $tevie.
He brought up a point that I bring up frequently in this forum. Stevie's power really grew from her insanely successful 24K Gold tour. Extended 3 times with many sold out or almost sold out arenas. She was selling tickets solo that the Mac would get. She got even more motivated to tell Mick do you want to tour with me and make millions or tour with Lindsey and make thousands. Go ahead Mick you decide. She just grossed a ton of money on the 24k Gold tour....as much money as all of her other solo tours combined.
Make your decision Mick.

[Jondalar]

The article says Lindsey was fired per Stevie’s request - skank alert!!

[HomerMcvie]

Man, $tevie is a HORRIBLE, HIDEOUS, BITTER person, and I wish her nothing but the karma that she so richly deserves. $he's got it coming.

It was hard to read all of it, without just shaking your head, saying, "what the hell is wrong with her?"

[bwboy]

Wow, what a great interview! A lot of cool stuff there, including the mention of someone from the band Civil Wars also auditioning for the band in 2018 after they kicked Lindsey out. I looked at Wikipedia and that band consisted of a male/female duo. I really thought Billy Burnette was the other person who auditioned. Neil Finn was an excellent choice though, so I'm glad Fleetwood Mac went with him instead of the other guy, whoever he was. Still, would love to learn more about this other mystery person.

[HomerMcvie]

I really thought Billy Burnette was the other person who auditioned.

Nope. Billy was PISSED that he wasn't asked. He bitched about it when he found out, but soon deleted his posts.

[wilsonmac]

Wow. She really sucks.

[soul_drifter333]

I always wondered if someone in the band would/could talk (the truth that is) but I didn't think about a supporting member talking and Brett has been with them a long time. I didn't realize he did the Stevie tours too. He nailed this part: You’re going to get the Stevie Mac, the people she wants there. And it’s going to be a Mac Lite, no offense. You’re not going to get the full goods.

He tried to be nice about Stevie, probably so he can tour with the Mac if it happens, but she comes across the way many people on here have portrayed her. It's odd because she is riding a crest of popularity, but it goes to show that most people (so called fans) really don't know or care about the workings of the band and just want to relive their memories. The last disaster of a tour that still sold well is proof of that.

Also, Lindsey was pretty upset when she refused to record after he tried for years to create new music. The band wouldn't put their foot down and make her decide if she was in the band or not. Pathetic.

[HomerMcvie]

Also, Lindsey was pretty upset when she refused to record after he tried for years to create new music. The band wouldn't put their foot down and make her decide if she was in the band or not. Pathetic.

Mick is ALWAYS going to go for the money. It's what the broke assed IDIOT does. He needs $tevie, $tevie doesn't need him. He really is a loser.

[mylittledemon]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/brett-tuggle-keyboard-fleetwood-mac-david-lee-roth-interview-1073409/

https://media4.giphy.com/media/37q4AuBq6empYMRVVF/giphy.gif

[SteveMacD]

So, Brett was fired for being one of Lindsey’s guys, but not Neale? :shrug:

[UnwindedDreams]

So, Brett was fired for being one of Lindsey’s guys, but not Neale? :shrug:
What I comprehended Steve was Neale wasn't a Lindsey guy because he didn't make a choice between Lindsey or Stevie like Brett did in 06. Neale never had to choose LB or SN before 2018. Brett had toured with Stevie from 1998-2006, but he chose UTS Tour and Stevie then hired Ricky for CV forward.
I'm sure Neale's also held in high regard by Stevie for New Orleans.
Also, it's not fired, it's separating paths:laugh:

[soul_drifter333]

So, Brett was fired for being one of Lindsey’s guys, but not Neale? :shrug:

You know it had to be rough on Neale to have to tour in that mess. He always seemed like a nice guy but I doubt that they spend any time together when they're not on stage anyways. I believe Neale was the one that played rhythm guitar on GYOW from the early days.

[SteveMacD]

You know it had to be rough on Neale to have to tour in that mess. He always seemed like a nice guy but I doubt that they spend any time together when they're not on stage anyways.

He seemed like he was having a good time in those bathroom jam videos and in some of the pictures from the off time.

[sleepless child]

I just read the article and was coming to the Ledge to post. Someone beat me to the punch. This is a great article with a lot of information. Thank you Brett.

I am so mad that Fleetwood Mac would go on national TV and lie about Lindsey like that. To say he wouldn't agree to tour. I had my doubts at the time they were spewing their lies. And Stevie sitting there saying no one is boss of this band. Yea right! I always thought the real reason was Lindsey wanting to do a record and Stevie not committing. I think she was very pissed about Buckingham/Mcvie.

Interesting about The Civil Wars guy. Can't think of his name, but they make really good music. I downloaded a few of their songs a few years back.

That would have been an interesting choice. So I assume, Stevie and Lindsey were also at odds over the song choices for the 2018 tour. Lindsey wants to move forward, Stevie wants to stay in the past.

[sleepless child]

Wonder why things got more isolated when Chris came back? They went from a big plane to 2 private jets? I don't see Chris as a snob type person. Was it Stevie wanting it to be the girls in one and the guys in the other?

I love when Brett talked about Lindsey being the driving force and wanting new music and how "some" of the others can't see that. Even if it doesn't sell 12 million copies. At this point I can't imagine trying to see millions of records. You make music for your fans and for your musical growth.

[vivfox]

Do you think there’s any chance they’ll bring him back in the next few years?
That’s the $65,000 question. I wish I knew, man. I would love nothing more than to see them have one more shot to do a tour again and maybe put some music out. But this bitterness has run so deep. I really don’t know. I remember saying to both Mick in Hawaii and in an email to Stevie that I hoped there was redemption for Lindsey some day. I think they just realized that I support him and figure I’m basically committed. The thing is, I care about them all. They’re all a big part of my life.

Well that explains it. In an email to Stevie that she could never read because she doesn't own a computer.:lol:

[Street_Dreamer]

Amazing but unsurprising. It really validates what so many of us here have posted about and felt since this whole thing with Lindsey being fired went down. It's all so ridiculous, petty and shameful but considering who was behind the whole thing, it's also unsurprising.

[Storms123]

This is upsetting, but not surprising, and seems as though all of the initial rumors we heard were correct.
Brett is clearly the most honest, and loyal person in this circle of fools. I met him during Lindsey's solo tour. He's also extremely nice.

I have to say though, the cynic in me is coming out---all of this press from FM last few weeks is odd, and I think not a coincidence
Curious to see who we will hear from next. There is an agenda here

[Storms123]

https://www.nme.com/news/music/stevie-nicks-fleetwood-mac-lindsey-buckingham-havent-had-any-communication-since-his-heart-attack-2785964?fbclid=IwAR0Lbt9x_Un9n9wq2JVHPBENXdo2qwB2204ZLD9a6-dd88v24bTuPKJH_VA

So now it wasn't just her that wrote Buckingham after the heart attack but apparently the whole band?...which isn't what she said last time referring to this letter.

"Nicks said that Buckingham’s heart attack “was serious” and that she and her Fleetwood Mac bandmates “wrote to him and told him that he’d better get well”.

Asked if Buckingham had acknowledged the letter they sent, Nicks said that he “wrote a kind of group letter to us all” in return.

“None of us have had any communication with him since,” she said, adding: “You know, it lasted 43 years, so we had a really, really good run.”

But Mick has had contact with him since as we learned earlier this week.


Is she even capable of making a coherant statement? It's either a group letter or it was not a group letter. I love how she somehow lobs the ball back in his court like it's up to him if they hear from one another. You had him fired from the band, do you seriously expect to be greeted with a dozen roses?

You know what would be more helpful than anything? If she could just stop talking about this. She has her own project coming out, why TF is Lindsey even getting dragged into this latest round of press.


According to Brett, she didn't write to Lindsey. Her assistant wrote to Kristen.....WTF

[SteveMacD]

I have to say though, the cynic in me is coming out---all of this press from FM last few weeks is odd, and I think not a coincidence
Curious to see who we will hear from next. There is an agenda here
As crazy as 2020 has been, I’m betting on John.

[Storms123]

As crazy as 2020 has been, I’m betting on John.


If it's ever gonna happen, this is the year it will

[michelej1]

I love when they ask about the letter Stevie supposedly wrote and Brett answered with one word. No.

That just made me laugh and laugh.

Also, kudos to KB. When these rockstars get married you make assumptions about the women, especially if they're younger, especially if a lot of money is spent on to promote their business and they don’t seem that talented (um, enough with the picture frames), but what great support he has had through all of this. What a partner and what a fighter. Lindsey is very lucky.

[jbrownsjr]

I love when they ask about the letter Steve he supposedly wrote and Brett answered with one word. No.

That just made me laugh and laugh.

Also, kudos to KB. When these rockstars get married you make assumptions about the women, especially if they're younger, especially if a lot of money is spent on to promote their business and they don’t seem that talented (um, enough with the picture frames), but what great support he has had through all of this. What a partner and what a fighter. Lindsey is very lucky.

It really cracked me up. And to everyone reading it, it's funny. Why? because she's such a liar.

One word answer was amazing!

[elle]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/brett-tuggle-keyboard-fleetwood-mac-david-lee-roth-interview-1073409/

[pasting FM related parts below]

Veteran Sideman Brett Tuggle on His Years With Fleetwood Mac, David Lee Roth, and More

Tuggle played in Fleetwood Mac and their various solo offshoots for nearly 20 years, but was let go shortly after the band parted ways with Lindsey Buckingham

By ANDY GREENE

Brett Tuggle has played with everyone from Fleetwood Mac and Jimmy Page to Rick Springfield and John Kay during his long career.

Scott Dudelson/Getty Images

Rolling Stone interview series Unknown Legends features long-form conversations between senior writer Andy Greene and veteran musicians who have toured and recorded alongside icons for years, if not decades. All are renowned in the business, but some are less well known to the general public. Here, these artists tell their complete stories, giving an up close look at life on music’s A list. This edition features keyboardist Brett Tuggle.

Keyboardist Brett Tuggle was traveling through Europe on a 1997 tour with Toto’s Steve Lukather when he heard that Mick Fleetwood was trying to get in touch with him. “I called him from the airport and he said, ‘Brett, we’re putting the Big Five [members of Fleetwood Mac] back together,'” says Tuggle. “‘We’re going to augment the band with a couple of great musicians and you’d be great with Christine [McVie]. Are you in?'”

“Let me check my calendar,” he joked. “Of course, I’m in.”

The single television special that resulted kicked off a two-decade stint for Tuggle as the go-to keyboardist for all Fleetwood Mac tours along with solo treks by Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham in addition to the Buckingham McVie side project.

Related
LOS ANGELES - SEPTEMBER 1: Fleetwood Mac (L-R Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham, Christine McVie, John McVie and Mick Fleetwood) backstage at the Los Angeles Rock Awards on September 1, 1977 in Los Angeles, California. (Photo by Richard Creamer/Michael Ochs Archives/Getty Images)
RS Charts: Fleetwood Mac's 'Dreams' Skateboards to Number Two
Stevie Nicks Joins TikTok, Nods to Viral 'Dreams' Challenge

Tuggle is also an original member of the David Lee Roth Band and co-writer of Diamond Dave’s 1987 hit single “Just Like Paradise.” Over the years, he’s also played with Rick Springfield, Coverdale-Page, John Kay and Steppenwolf, Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, Tommy Shaw, Belinda Carlisle, and many, many others.

He phoned us up from his home in Los Angeles to share his incredible story and reveal why he was let go from Fleetwood Mac in 2018 shortly after they fired Lindsey Buckingham.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
How did you first enter the world of Fleetwood Mac?
It was because of Mick Fleetwood, his majesty. I was in a band with Mick called the Zoo. We did an album in the Nineties. David Lee Roth wasn’t doing much. I think that was already over. I had gotten a call that Mick was looking for a keyboard player for his band the Zoo, which I had heard of. I didn’t know much about them, but I thought it could be interesting. It had a pretty good lineup of people. It was Bekka Bramlett on lead vocals. She’s Delaney and Bonnie’s daughter. There was also Billy Thorpe from Down Under. He was a big star in Australia.

Mick put together a great, little band and needed a keyboard player. I took the gig and we ended up doing this album for Capricorn Records, which was a good album. A lot of it was with Billy Thorpe at the helm. We did a bunch of gigs, but they were small gigs in clubs and theaters. We did a run in the States trying to break the band. We did Arsenio Hall and got close to breaking the single “Shakin’ the Cage.” It seemed like it might break, but it actually didn’t.

Mick asked you to join Fleetwood Mac for the Dance TV special. The model for that was clearly the Eagles’ Hell Freezes Over.
It was. I can 110 percent guarantee it.

Tell me how you and Christine McVie figured out how to share the keyboard duties.
It was really easy with her. First of all, she’s the sweetest human ever. I think she’s a really great keyboard player. She’s a blues player and such an amazing writer and voice. It was not hard. On the Fleetwood Mac records, there are so many keyboard parts, layers and things, overdubs, because they were doing that.

I knew the old Fleetwood Mac because I had the Peter Green records back in the day. I didn’t know much about the Stevie and Lindsey version beyond the hits that everyone would hear on the radio. But I started listening to all the albums with Stevie and Lindsey. There’s a lot of guitar stuff that I didn’t even realize was guitar because Lindsey would slow down the tape. Then he’d play these little arpeggios or beautiful, melodic phrases and bring the tape to a normal speed and get these twinkly, chime-y little parts that I thought were synthesizers. A lot of them were, but plenty are Lindsey’s guitars.

There’s plenty of keyboards. Basically, we shared them because Christine had to sing. She’d play her main keyboard part on either the piano or the organ. I did all the colors and synthesizers and other stuff. There were so many parts on things, so it was really easy.

On the Dance tour, did you sense that she was ready to get off the road and make that her last tour?
Everybody could feel that as we were winding up. It was huge, but Chris wasn’t enjoying it. She didn’t like to fly, first of all. She had a few issues going, too, and she was unhappy. You could sort of feel it.

They pleaded with her to stay and at least do another leg because the three months was like a blip. We did all this work. We did the filming of The Dance and then went out and did sold-out shows everywhere with that lineup being back. It was amazing. But she was like, “No. I’ve contracted for three months. That’s all I’m going to do. I’m done.” She just stuck to her guns. It wasn’t about money. No matter what they said, she was just over it. She needed to stop for her sanity.

Luckily for me, I got to step right in. But I tell everybody, “You don’t replace Christine McVie. You just play the parts that are there and honor the work and play the cool parts she played.” It was sad to see her go like that, but we did a whole lot of years without her.

What’s it like as the keyboardist on the road in a big band like Fleetwood Mac? Are you staying at the same hotels as the principals? Are you on the private plane?
It’s changed a little bit over the years. We usually stay in the same hotels as the band and we usually travel together. Things got a little more isolated when Chris came back in terms of what size jet we’d use. We used to get the 737 jet that U2 and the Stones would use. Then they got more into a couple of private jets.

When that started happening, the band guys started bussing more and flying commercially. But we were treated really well. We got pretty deluxe accommodations everywhere. It was good touring. It was country-club touring, pretty much. In the early years, with The Dance and Say You Will, we all hung together.

How were your experiences on the Stevie solo tours?
It was great. I had a wonderful time. Stevie likes to work. The good thing was, we came off The Dance and she asked me to be in her band. She put out the box set Enchanted in 1998 and we went out and hit the road right on that to promote it. We did a lot of sheds. She would do a tour every couple of years. I loved working with her.

You backed Lindsey also on his tours. How were those tours different for you than the ones with Stevie?
I did 10 years with Stevie. Around 2006, Lindsey started making little boutique records he’s been putting out over the past 14 years. He didn’t have a band. Stevie has her nine-piece band and lots of players. We did a thing called Soundstage. That was the beginning of Lindsey trying to do some solo stuff again.

We had gotten to know each other fairly well and I think he trusted me, so he asked me to play with him, too. I was walking the fence for a while in both camps. I thought it was fine with everybody for a minute. In the end, I think, Stevie thought I was more in Lindsey’s camp. But I tried to be Switzerland to all the principles in the Mac. I felt like that was my job.

That’s a tricky thing. It’s Mick’s band, but Stevie and Lindsey carry a ton of weight too. And then you’re in the middle of all that.
Exactly. There were times it got to be very challenging. It came to a point where Stevie said, “You’re going to have to decide.” I said, “You know, Stevie, I love playing with you. I support you. But Lindsey doesn’t have a band.” She said, “I know he needs good people.” She seemed to be OK with it when I went off to do Lindsey’s thing. But think in the end, she looked at me a little as abandoning her and going over to Lindsey’s camp. It really wasn’t that. I wasn’t all “pro-Lindsey.” I’m “pro” all of them.

Before Say You Will, did the band worry that it might not work without Christine?
I think they felt it would work without Christine because she would dabble in and out of various projects anyway at times. When she officially retired, I think they realized that they weren’t ready to stop. They proved, even on this last tour, that the brand is bigger than any of them.

But I think that Lindsey is really the one that is driving the ship. He’s the instigator and the architect of the music. He’s the one with the vision when it comes to writing new music and putting out new stuff. He’s the one that champions all that. To me, that’s super important. At times, I think other band members have lost sight of some of that. You’ve got to put out new stuff to remain viable even if it’s not going to sell 12 million copies. Lindsey is all about putting out new art.

I presume that Buckingham McVie started as a Fleetwood Mac project that didn’t happen.
I’m going to be totally honest with you. Stevie wouldn’t commit. It drove Lindsey out of his mind. He just wanted to keep going. To his credit, he just kept making music. When Christine came back … those two have a very special bond and a great working relationship. Christine was able to take some of her bits of songs that she had and give them to Lindsey and have Lindsey nurture them and bring them to life with this Buckingham McVie thing. It was a great record. If you closed your eyes, if Stevie would have given up three songs, it would have been a Fleetwood Mac record. It’s just super sad.

What was it like to be in the middle of the Buckingham McVie tour and go straight back to Fleetwood Mac for two stadium shows with Classic East and Classic West?
That needed to happen in terms of the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac finally doing something together. They had been talking about it forever. Glenn Frey’s passing obviously changed everything. And then the opportunity to came about for them to do these two big shows. … It was a big deal. We were on the road with Buckingham McVie and went back and rehearse with Fleetwood Mac here at Sony in L.A. Everybody was excited. I felt we were energized by it. Everything was sort of feeling like it was working.

Tell me about MusiCares and what happened that night.
Tensions had been building a lot over the past year regarding this tour that was going to happen with Lindsey still involved. There were some key things that had caused tension between Lindsey and Stevie regarding this thing at MusiCares. There had been some meetings that didn’t go well and people would walk out. There was some pretty upset people at other people. A lot of this was coming from Stevie and Lindsey’s differences about how they viewed this next tour.

We were all on board for this tour. Everyone had signed on for it. They were booking it. Everything was going fine. And what Lindsey originally wanted to do was have three or four months to do some solo touring and get that out of the way because he had a new record he wanted to put out, and then do the Mac.

They framed it in the press that he didn’t want to tour. That isn’t true. He wanted to tour. But there were a couple of bad exchanges in meetings and other things that lead to some high drama with Stevie. After the Pretenders tour and the success of that, she had gotten to a place where she wasn’t going to bend on things. She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band. It wasn’t John McVie. It was really between Lindsey wanting time for a little short run of his solo work and then get back to the Mac.

You must have been shocked when you learned he was out.
Oh, yeah. I was there the night of MusiCares. We did rehearsals across the street the day before. I could feel there was some tension there, but it didn’t feel like it was going to blow up. When Stevie came out and did her speech and talked about Tom [Petty], I felt that she did a wonderful job. But they were there to celebrate the legacy of Fleetwood Mac. I think Stevie felt that Lindsey was rolling his eyes behind her and not being respectful. And he had a little outburst over the house music they played before we went on. He was a little short with some people. That’s the only thing I saw happen. It wasn’t worth someone getting a life sentence and getting fired for it.

When they walked back after their speeches, we got to our gear, got in place, and fired off a few songs. I thought it went down well. I know there was tension. It would be crazy to say I couldn’t feel it. It was coming from Stevie and Mick both when we were standing there and waiting to go on and play. Something was definitely up. I could feel there was bad vibes going on.

How did you find out that you weren’t going to be on the tour?
Funnily enough, Lindsey called to tell me that he’d been fired the week after MusiCares. He calls me and goes, “Brett, I’ve had the weirdest week ever.” He was on the phone with Irving [Azoff], who basically chewed him out on the phone. He was fired per Stevie’s request.

I didn’t know how that would affect me, but I thought my gig was probably safe only because I got along with everyone so well, especially with Christine since I was there to support her and her keyboard role. I actually went down to Hawaii to rehearse with them with Mike Campbell and Neil Finn.

We got down there and did a couple days of rehearsal, but something felt weird with Stevie. I could tell something was off with her. I think she had already made up her mind about me being Lindsey’s guy. I think my fate was already sealed whether I was there or not.

I was really shocked when I got the call that they weren’t going to use me. I also realized that I was in the middle of the politics of Lindsey and Stevie and this band and there was nothing I was going to be able to do about it. I had become Lindsey’s guy and that was it and I had to accept it. There was nothing else I could do.

I just jumped into music and doing a tour with Lindsey, which was refreshing and at least gave us some common ground together. I grew even closer to Lindsey in terms of friendship and music. All of a sudden, we were both outcasts and he was on my side.

Before the heart attack, you guys were set to tour.
Oh, yeah. We were absolutely going to tour. But it was kind of one blow after another. It was pretty rough there for a while. Luckily, his recovery has gone real well. He’s in great shape. He auditioned some drummers back in early March before the pandemic really kicked in. We found an awesome drummer for the tour and he’s got a new album that is amazing and ready to go. We’re really exited about the future and being out there on tour with this new album. We keep in touch and look forward to doing it again.

He regained his singing voice, which is amazing.
Yeah. We were really worried about his voice because one of his vocal cords was screwed up when they went in to save his life. But he’s healed up almost completely. I look at him and he looks better — the mother****er. The guy is in good shape. He’s looking good and he sounds good.

I know Stevie wrote a letter to him after his heart attack …
No.

She told the L.A. Times that she did.
Her assistant may have sent something to Kristen , I don’t know. Lindsey was disappointed he didn’t hear anything from the band. They’re still family.

[B]Do you think there’s any chance they’ll bring him back in the next few years?
That’s the $65,000 question. I wish I knew, man. I would love nothing more than to see them have one more shot to do a tour again and maybe put some music out. But this bitterness has run so deep. I really don’t know. I remember saying to both Mick in Hawaii and in an email to Stevie that I hoped there was redemption for Lindsey some day. I think they just realized that I support him and figure I’m basically committed. The thing is, I care about them all. They’re all a big part of my life.

A reunion would make sense. Each tour needs an angle to sell it, especially when there’s never new music. In the past it’s been “Christine is back!” or “Check out this new lineup!” Another tour with that last lineup won’t feel like a big deal to people. “Lindsey’s back!” however …
I absolutely agree. I think right now what you have is a great band with Neil and Mike, but it’s not the same band. You really don’t have the tension that makes that band so great, which is Stevie and Lindsey, ex-lovers and everything, looking each other in the eye and giving you chills from the emotional context. You won’t get that from this band. You’re going to get the Stevie Mac, the people she wants there. And it’s going to be a Mac Lite, no offense. You’re not going to get the full goods.

One thing you will get is the older, bluesy stuff they could bring back. That’s great. I don’t think they did enough of that with Lindsey. I think he needed to do more even though he did a great version of “Oh Well.”

Mike Campbell is one of my favorite guitar players. And I truly love Neil Finn, but it’s a little weird to watch him sing “Second Hand News.”
It’s not right, man. I was in that room for two days with this lineup when they first started. I just knew, “This is not right. This is not right.” I was heartbroken.

Did they audition someone besides Neil Finn?
There was another singer on day one. I can’t think of the name of the band. The guy from Civil Wars, maybe? I’m trying to think. But Neil and Mick had been friends, so that was already set up, and Campbell and Stevie, of course, from the Heartbreakers. But my heart is broken for all of them.

It would be great if you and Lindsey tour next year.
Stranger things have happened, my friend. I’d like to see that happen. What’s mind-blowing is that Lindsey has been so great about his attitude towards this. I know he’s been hurt. At the same time, he’s remained open about going back. He’s tried to reach out. He gets radio silence, but he’s trying. He may not always be as sensitive as they want him to be, but I know that he is open to working with them again.

If his wife had anything to say about it, he’d probably never go back. That’s because of all the pain that’s been caused. At the same time, I know that Lindsey, deep down inside, wants to have a chance to finish that legacy the right way, with him involved. I know he’d be up for it.

It could be 2024 or something.
You never know. If they can all stay alive

Hopefully they’d bring you back, too, in that instance.
I hope so. I like to think that someday that could be a possibility.

[button-lip]

It really cracked me up. And to everyone reading it, it's funny. Why? because she's such a liar.

One word answer was amazing!

It must be a hard pill to swallow, right? :D

All we have been saying since the day Lindsey was fired (and even before that) is now being confirmed. And still, some fans are trying to twist it so Lindsey can end up as the bad guy. :shrug:

This is the confirmation from an inside source. Stevie is a liar, manipulative, horrible person. End of the story.

I hope all those theories about a last FM tour with Lindsey there are nothing but wishful thinking.

[Storms123]

[pasting FM related parts below]

Veteran Sideman Brett Tuggle on His Years With Fleetwood Mac, David Lee Roth, and More

Tuggle played in Fleetwood Mac and their various solo offshoots for nearly 20 years, but was let go shortly after the band parted ways with Lindsey Buckingham

By ANDY GREENE

Brett Tuggle has played with everyone from Fleetwood Mac and Jimmy Page to Rick Springfield and John Kay during his long career.

Scott Dudelson/Getty Images

Rolling Stone interview series Unknown Legends features long-form conversations between senior writer Andy Greene and veteran musicians who have toured and recorded alongside icons for years, if not decades. All are renowned in the business, but some are less well known to the general public. Here, these artists tell their complete stories, giving an up close look at life on music’s A list. This edition features keyboardist Brett Tuggle.

Keyboardist Brett Tuggle was traveling through Europe on a 1997 tour with Toto’s Steve Lukather when he heard that Mick Fleetwood was trying to get in touch with him. “I called him from the airport and he said, ‘Brett, we’re putting the Big Five [members of Fleetwood Mac] back together,'” says Tuggle. “‘We’re going to augment the band with a couple of great musicians and you’d be great with Christine [McVie]. Are you in?'”

“Let me check my calendar,” he joked. “Of course, I’m in.”

The single television special that resulted kicked off a two-decade stint for Tuggle as the go-to keyboardist for all Fleetwood Mac tours along with solo treks by Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham in addition to the Buckingham McVie side project.

Related
LOS ANGELES - SEPTEMBER 1: Fleetwood Mac (L-R Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham, Christine McVie, John McVie and Mick Fleetwood) backstage at the Los Angeles Rock Awards on September 1, 1977 in Los Angeles, California. (Photo by Richard Creamer/Michael Ochs Archives/Getty Images)
RS Charts: Fleetwood Mac's 'Dreams' Skateboards to Number Two
Stevie Nicks Joins TikTok, Nods to Viral 'Dreams' Challenge

Tuggle is also an original member of the David Lee Roth Band and co-writer of Diamond Dave’s 1987 hit single “Just Like Paradise.” Over the years, he’s also played with Rick Springfield, Coverdale-Page, John Kay and Steppenwolf, Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, Tommy Shaw, Belinda Carlisle, and many, many others.

He phoned us up from his home in Los Angeles to share his incredible story and reveal why he was let go from Fleetwood Mac in 2018 shortly after they fired Lindsey Buckingham.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
How did you first enter the world of Fleetwood Mac?
It was because of Mick Fleetwood, his majesty. I was in a band with Mick called the Zoo. We did an album in the Nineties. David Lee Roth wasn’t doing much. I think that was already over. I had gotten a call that Mick was looking for a keyboard player for his band the Zoo, which I had heard of. I didn’t know much about them, but I thought it could be interesting. It had a pretty good lineup of people. It was Bekka Bramlett on lead vocals. She’s Delaney and Bonnie’s daughter. There was also Billy Thorpe from Down Under. He was a big star in Australia.

Mick put together a great, little band and needed a keyboard player. I took the gig and we ended up doing this album for Capricorn Records, which was a good album. A lot of it was with Billy Thorpe at the helm. We did a bunch of gigs, but they were small gigs in clubs and theaters. We did a run in the States trying to break the band. We did Arsenio Hall and got close to breaking the single “Shakin’ the Cage.” It seemed like it might break, but it actually didn’t.

Mick asked you to join Fleetwood Mac for the Dance TV special. The model for that was clearly the Eagles’ Hell Freezes Over.
It was. I can 110 percent guarantee it.

Tell me how you and Christine McVie figured out how to share the keyboard duties.
It was really easy with her. First of all, she’s the sweetest human ever. I think she’s a really great keyboard player. She’s a blues player and such an amazing writer and voice. It was not hard. On the Fleetwood Mac records, there are so many keyboard parts, layers and things, overdubs, because they were doing that.

I knew the old Fleetwood Mac because I had the Peter Green records back in the day. I didn’t know much about the Stevie and Lindsey version beyond the hits that everyone would hear on the radio. But I started listening to all the albums with Stevie and Lindsey. There’s a lot of guitar stuff that I didn’t even realize was guitar because Lindsey would slow down the tape. Then he’d play these little arpeggios or beautiful, melodic phrases and bring the tape to a normal speed and get these twinkly, chime-y little parts that I thought were synthesizers. A lot of them were, but plenty are Lindsey’s guitars.

There’s plenty of keyboards. Basically, we shared them because Christine had to sing. She’d play her main keyboard part on either the piano or the organ. I did all the colors and synthesizers and other stuff. There were so many parts on things, so it was really easy.

On the Dance tour, did you sense that she was ready to get off the road and make that her last tour?
Everybody could feel that as we were winding up. It was huge, but Chris wasn’t enjoying it. She didn’t like to fly, first of all. She had a few issues going, too, and she was unhappy. You could sort of feel it.

They pleaded with her to stay and at least do another leg because the three months was like a blip. We did all this work. We did the filming of The Dance and then went out and did sold-out shows everywhere with that lineup being back. It was amazing. But she was like, “No. I’ve contracted for three months. That’s all I’m going to do. I’m done.” She just stuck to her guns. It wasn’t about money. No matter what they said, she was just over it. She needed to stop for her sanity.

Luckily for me, I got to step right in. But I tell everybody, “You don’t replace Christine McVie. You just play the parts that are there and honor the work and play the cool parts she played.” It was sad to see her go like that, but we did a whole lot of years without her.

What’s it like as the keyboardist on the road in a big band like Fleetwood Mac? Are you staying at the same hotels as the principals? Are you on the private plane?
It’s changed a little bit over the years. We usually stay in the same hotels as the band and we usually travel together. Things got a little more isolated when Chris came back in terms of what size jet we’d use. We used to get the 737 jet that U2 and the Stones would use. Then they got more into a couple of private jets.

When that started happening, the band guys started bussing more and flying commercially. But we were treated really well. We got pretty deluxe accommodations everywhere. It was good touring. It was country-club touring, pretty much. In the early years, with The Dance and Say You Will, we all hung together.

How were your experiences on the Stevie solo tours?
It was great. I had a wonderful time. Stevie likes to work. The good thing was, we came off The Dance and she asked me to be in her band. She put out the box set Enchanted in 1998 and we went out and hit the road right on that to promote it. We did a lot of sheds. She would do a tour every couple of years. I loved working with her.

You backed Lindsey also on his tours. How were those tours different for you than the ones with Stevie?
I did 10 years with Stevie. Around 2006, Lindsey started making little boutique records he’s been putting out over the past 14 years. He didn’t have a band. Stevie has her nine-piece band and lots of players. We did a thing called Soundstage. That was the beginning of Lindsey trying to do some solo stuff again.

We had gotten to know each other fairly well and I think he trusted me, so he asked me to play with him, too. I was walking the fence for a while in both camps. I thought it was fine with everybody for a minute. In the end, I think, Stevie thought I was more in Lindsey’s camp. But I tried to be Switzerland to all the principles in the Mac. I felt like that was my job.

That’s a tricky thing. It’s Mick’s band, but Stevie and Lindsey carry a ton of weight too. And then you’re in the middle of all that.
Exactly. There were times it got to be very challenging. It came to a point where Stevie said, “You’re going to have to decide.” I said, “You know, Stevie, I love playing with you. I support you. But Lindsey doesn’t have a band.” She said, “I know he needs good people.” She seemed to be OK with it when I went off to do Lindsey’s thing. But think in the end, she looked at me a little as abandoning her and going over to Lindsey’s camp. It really wasn’t that. I wasn’t all “pro-Lindsey.” I’m “pro” all of them.

Before Say You Will, did the band worry that it might not work without Christine?
I think they felt it would work without Christine because she would dabble in and out of various projects anyway at times. When she officially retired, I think they realized that they weren’t ready to stop. They proved, even on this last tour, that the brand is bigger than any of them.

But I think that Lindsey is really the one that is driving the ship. He’s the instigator and the architect of the music. He’s the one with the vision when it comes to writing new music and putting out new stuff. He’s the one that champions all that. To me, that’s super important. At times, I think other band members have lost sight of some of that. You’ve got to put out new stuff to remain viable even if it’s not going to sell 12 million copies. Lindsey is all about putting out new art.

I presume that Buckingham McVie started as a Fleetwood Mac project that didn’t happen.
I’m going to be totally honest with you. Stevie wouldn’t commit. It drove Lindsey out of his mind. He just wanted to keep going. To his credit, he just kept making music. When Christine came back … those two have a very special bond and a great working relationship. Christine was able to take some of her bits of songs that she had and give them to Lindsey and have Lindsey nurture them and bring them to life with this Buckingham McVie thing. It was a great record. If you closed your eyes, if Stevie would have given up three songs, it would have been a Fleetwood Mac record. It’s just super sad.

What was it like to be in the middle of the Buckingham McVie tour and go straight back to Fleetwood Mac for two stadium shows with Classic East and Classic West?
That needed to happen in terms of the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac finally doing something together. They had been talking about it forever. Glenn Frey’s passing obviously changed everything. And then the opportunity to came about for them to do these two big shows. … It was a big deal. We were on the road with Buckingham McVie and went back and rehearse with Fleetwood Mac here at Sony in L.A. Everybody was excited. I felt we were energized by it. Everything was sort of feeling like it was working.

Tell me about MusiCares and what happened that night.
Tensions had been building a lot over the past year regarding this tour that was going to happen with Lindsey still involved. There were some key things that had caused tension between Lindsey and Stevie regarding this thing at MusiCares. There had been some meetings that didn’t go well and people would walk out. There was some pretty upset people at other people. A lot of this was coming from Stevie and Lindsey’s differences about how they viewed this next tour.

We were all on board for this tour. Everyone had signed on for it. They were booking it. Everything was going fine. And what Lindsey originally wanted to do was have three or four months to do some solo touring and get that out of the way because he had a new record he wanted to put out, and then do the Mac.

They framed it in the press that he didn’t want to tour. That isn’t true. He wanted to tour. But there were a couple of bad exchanges in meetings and other things that lead to some high drama with Stevie. After the Pretenders tour and the success of that, she had gotten to a place where she wasn’t going to bend on things. She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band. It wasn’t John McVie. It was really between Lindsey wanting time for a little short run of his solo work and then get back to the Mac.

You must have been shocked when you learned he was out.
Oh, yeah. I was there the night of MusiCares. We did rehearsals across the street the day before. I could feel there was some tension there, but it didn’t feel like it was going to blow up. When Stevie came out and did her speech and talked about Tom [Petty], I felt that she did a wonderful job. But they were there to celebrate the legacy of Fleetwood Mac. I think Stevie felt that Lindsey was rolling his eyes behind her and not being respectful. And he had a little outburst over the house music they played before we went on. He was a little short with some people. That’s the only thing I saw happen. It wasn’t worth someone getting a life sentence and getting fired for it.

When they walked back after their speeches, we got to our gear, got in place, and fired off a few songs. I thought it went down well. I know there was tension. It would be crazy to say I couldn’t feel it. It was coming from Stevie and Mick both when we were standing there and waiting to go on and play. Something was definitely up. I could feel there was bad vibes going on.

How did you find out that you weren’t going to be on the tour?
Funnily enough, Lindsey called to tell me that he’d been fired the week after MusiCares. He calls me and goes, “Brett, I’ve had the weirdest week ever.” He was on the phone with Irving [Azoff], who basically chewed him out on the phone. He was fired per Stevie’s request.

I didn’t know how that would affect me, but I thought my gig was probably safe only because I got along with everyone so well, especially with Christine since I was there to support her and her keyboard role. I actually went down to Hawaii to rehearse with them with Mike Campbell and Neil Finn.

We got down there and did a couple days of rehearsal, but something felt weird with Stevie. I could tell something was off with her. I think she had already made up her mind about me being Lindsey’s guy. I think my fate was already sealed whether I was there or not.

I was really shocked when I got the call that they weren’t going to use me. I also realized that I was in the middle of the politics of Lindsey and Stevie and this band and there was nothing I was going to be able to do about it. I had become Lindsey’s guy and that was it and I had to accept it. There was nothing else I could do.

I just jumped into music and doing a tour with Lindsey, which was refreshing and at least gave us some common ground together. I grew even closer to Lindsey in terms of friendship and music. All of a sudden, we were both outcasts and he was on my side.

Before the heart attack, you guys were set to tour.
Oh, yeah. We were absolutely going to tour. But it was kind of one blow after another. It was pretty rough there for a while. Luckily, his recovery has gone real well. He’s in great shape. He auditioned some drummers back in early March before the pandemic really kicked in. We found an awesome drummer for the tour and he’s got a new album that is amazing and ready to go. We’re really exited about the future and being out there on tour with this new album. We keep in touch and look forward to doing it again.

He regained his singing voice, which is amazing.
Yeah. We were really worried about his voice because one of his vocal cords was screwed up when they went in to save his life. But he’s healed up almost completely. I look at him and he looks better — the mother****er. The guy is in good shape. He’s looking good and he sounds good.

I know Stevie wrote a letter to him after his heart attack …
No.

She told the L.A. Times that she did.
Her assistant may have sent something to Kristen , I don’t know. Lindsey was disappointed he didn’t hear anything from the band. They’re still family.

Do you think there’s any chance they’ll bring him back in the next few years?
That’s the $65,000 question. I wish I knew, man. I would love nothing more than to see them have one more shot to do a tour again and maybe put some music out. But this bitterness has run so deep. I really don’t know. I remember saying to both Mick in Hawaii and in an email to Stevie that I hoped there was redemption for Lindsey some day. I think they just realized that I support him and figure I’m basically committed. The thing is, I care about them all. They’re all a big part of my life.

A reunion would make sense. Each tour needs an angle to sell it, especially when there’s never new music. In the past it’s been “Christine is back!” or “Check out this new lineup!” Another tour with that last lineup won’t feel like a big deal to people. “Lindsey’s back!” however …
I absolutely agree. I think right now what you have is a great band with Neil and Mike, but it’s not the same band. You really don’t have the tension that makes that band so great, which is Stevie and Lindsey, ex-lovers and everything, looking each other in the eye and giving you chills from the emotional context. You won’t get that from this band. You’re going to get the Stevie Mac, the people she wants there. And it’s going to be a Mac Lite, no offense. You’re not going to get the full goods.

One thing you will get is the older, bluesy stuff they could bring back. That’s great. I don’t think they did enough of that with Lindsey. I think he needed to do more even though he did a great version of “Oh Well.”

Mike Campbell is one of my favorite guitar players. And I truly love Neil Finn, but it’s a little weird to watch him sing “Second Hand News.”
It’s not right, man. I was in that room for two days with this lineup when they first started. I just knew, “This is not right. This is not right.” I was heartbroken.

Did they audition someone besides Neil Finn?
There was another singer on day one. I can’t think of the name of the band. The guy from Civil Wars, maybe? I’m trying to think. But Neil and Mick had been friends, so that was already set up, and Campbell and Stevie, of course, from the Heartbreakers. But my heart is broken for all of them.

It would be great if you and Lindsey tour next year.
Stranger things have happened, my friend. I’d like to see that happen. What’s mind-blowing is that Lindsey has been so great about his attitude towards this. I know he’s been hurt. At the same time, he’s remained open about going back. He’s tried to reach out. He gets radio silence, but he’s trying. He may not always be as sensitive as they want him to be, but I know that he is open to working with them again.

If his wife had anything to say about it, he’d probably never go back. That’s because of all the pain that’s been caused. At the same time, I know that Lindsey, deep down inside, wants to have a chance to finish that legacy the right way, with him involved. I know he’d be up for it.

[B]It could be 2024 or something.
You never know. If they can all stay alive

Hopefully they’d bring you back, too, in that instance.
I hope so. I like to think that someday that could be a possibility.

Thank you for doing this---reminded me of the best line in the entire article
"You never know. If they can all stay alive"

[jbrownsjr]

It must be a hard pill to swallow, right? :D

All we have been saying since the day Lindsey was fired (and even before that) is now being confirmed. And still, some fans are trying to twist it so Lindsey can end up as the bad guy. :shrug:

This is the confirmation from an inside source. Stevie is a liar, manipulative, horrible person. End of the story.

I hope all those theories about a last FM tour with Lindsey there are nothing but wishful thinking.

I would love to see another BuckVie album! That would piss the old goat off!

[elle]

I love when they ask about the letter Steve he supposedly wrote and Brett answered with one word. No.

That just made me laugh and laugh.

It really cracked me up. And to everyone reading it, it's funny. Why? because she's such a liar.

One word answer was amazing!

she's doubling down on the note(s) apparently in some NME interview that came out at the same time as Brett's RS article -

Stevie Nicks says Fleetwood Mac and Lindsey Buckingham “haven’t had any communication” since his heart attack
"You know, it lasted 43 years, so we had a really, really good run"
By
Sam Moore
15th October 2020
Fleetwood Mac
Mick Fleetwood, Christine McVie, Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham, and John McVie of Fleetwood Mac arrive at the 60th Annual GRAMMY Awards on January 26, 2018 in New York City. (Picture: Steve Granitz/Getty Images)

Stevie Nicks has revealed that she and her Fleetwood Mac bandmates “haven’t had any communication” with Lindsey Buckingham since they last exchanged letters following his 2019 heart attack.

Buckingham, who was fired from the band in April 2018, required open heart surgery in February 2019 after experiencing chest pains.

Nicks revealed last month that she sent Buckingham a letter following his health scare, urging him to “take care of yourself… and get your voice back and feel the grace that you have made it through this”.

Speaking to NME in a new interview, Nicks said that Buckingham’s heart attack “was serious” and that she and her Fleetwood Mac bandmates “wrote to him and told him that he’d better get well”.

“Being an ex-girlfriend, I wrote more than that. I said: ‘You’d better stay well and you’d take care of yourself’. The same old thing, right?

“But we haven’t had any communication [since the letter]”, she added. “It’s OK. If it’s ever meant to happen, it will. If we’re meant to communicate ever again, we will. It’s not happening right now.”

Asked if Buckingham had acknowledged the letter they sent, Nicks said that he “wrote a kind of group letter to us all” in return.

“None of us have had any communication with him since,” she said, adding: “You know, it lasted 43 years, so we had a really, really good run.”

https://www.nme.com/news/music/stevie-nicks-fleetwood-mac-lindsey-buckingham-havent-had-any-communication-since-his-heart-attack-2785964?fbclid=IwAR1EkG2Q7lU3grr0UnL46yyCNyj9hj5RZIKs8_4XFIoVsP7zbioG6AgfOsY

[michelej1]

I do not like the term “redemption” for Lindsey. He did nothing to be forgiven for.

If Brett had allowed me to write the email, it would’ve stated “I hope one day there will be some vindication for Lindsey.”

[Dr.Brown]

Giving her the benefit of the doubt - How do we know this letter didn't end up in the same ditch as all those uncounted mail-in ballots? :lol:

<a href="https://imgflip.com/i/33r5yl"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/33r5yl.jpg" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a><div><a href="https://imgflip.com/memegenerator">from Imgflip Meme Generator</a></div>

[Nicks Fan]

I respect Brett for the way he has always been supportive of Lindsey and his solo work. I recall though that when Lindsey was first a good friend of mine who was in the know with FM gossip was saying on social media that their sources had been saying that Brett spoke up and defended Lindsey and that was why he was also fired. Wonder if there is any truth to that?

[BigAl84]

So what if Bret did speak up -it doesn’t excuse or change anything. Good for Brett for perhaps being one of the few adults in the room.

[Storms123]

she's doubling down on the note(s) apparently in some NME interview that came out at the same time as Brett's RS article -

Stevie Nicks says Fleetwood Mac and Lindsey Buckingham “haven’t had any communication” since his heart attack
"You know, it lasted 43 years, so we had a really, really good run"
By
Sam Moore
15th October 2020
Fleetwood Mac
Mick Fleetwood, Christine McVie, Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham, and John McVie of Fleetwood Mac arrive at the 60th Annual GRAMMY Awards on January 26, 2018 in New York City. (Picture: Steve Granitz/Getty Images)

Stevie Nicks has revealed that she and her Fleetwood Mac bandmates “haven’t had any communication” with Lindsey Buckingham since they last exchanged letters following his 2019 heart attack.

Buckingham, who was fired from the band in April 2018, required open heart surgery in February 2019 after experiencing chest pains.

Nicks revealed last month that she sent Buckingham a letter following his health scare, urging him to “take care of yourself… and get your voice back and feel the grace that you have made it through this”.

Speaking to NME in a new interview, Nicks said that Buckingham’s heart attack “was serious” and that she and her Fleetwood Mac bandmates “wrote to him and told him that he’d better get well”.

“Being an ex-girlfriend, I wrote more than that. I said: ‘You’d better stay well and you’d take care of yourself’. The same old thing, right?

“But we haven’t had any communication [since the letter]”, she added. “It’s OK. If it’s ever meant to happen, it will. If we’re meant to communicate ever again, we will. It’s not happening right now.”

Asked if Buckingham had acknowledged the letter they sent, Nicks said that he “wrote a kind of group letter to us all” in return.

“None of us have had any communication with him since,” she said, adding: “You know, it lasted 43 years, so we had a really, really good run.”

[url]https://www.nme.com/news/music/stevie-nicks-fleetwood-mac-lindsey-buckingham-havent-had-any-communication-since-his-heart-attack-2785964?fbclid=IwAR1EkG2Q7lU3grr0UnL46yyCNyj9hj5RZIKs8_4XFIoVsP7zbioG6Agfurl]

"Being an ex-girlfriend, I wrote more than that....." She's truly batty. Would the group letter be the incessant emails he sent to you after you fired him, that you all ignored. Is the letter you alll sent that heartfelt instagram post after you found out about his surgery...After all he's your ex-boyfriend Stevie. I am sure you were the first phone call once he got out of the OR.
She talks about being "divorced" from him, because her dead parents told her it was time. Umm--never married to him Stevie. Honestly, living with someone for 6 years when you are 25 isn't like being married.
Mentions being his ex girlfriend....from practically 50 years ago. I think the tides turned when Chris returned because there was no sexual tension between them. There was likely "work tension" but overall, Just a respect for the music and each other (which is why Christine is as shameful as Stevie in all of this) Stevie just comes across as bitter. She dumped him--almost 50 years ago, he moved on to a happy personal life and she can't get over that.
I thought it was mean when he said it in the interview, and I was disappointed he went there, but I think LB is right, she's jealous of his life.

[BigAl84]

It’s pretty hilarious to hear about somebody so off their effing rocker that they’re firing touring musicians over having the audacity to work with other members of the band on separate tours.

Brett is out there trying to make a living and they put him out to pasture too!?

And then replace him with Ricky Peterson who was on Stevie’s band? Talk about a double standard and total hypocrisy.

[Storms123]

It’s pretty hilarious to hear about somebody so off their effing rocker that they’re firing touring musicians over having the audacity to work with other members of the band on separate tours.

Brett is out there trying to make a living and they put him out to pasture too!?

And then replace him with Ricky Peterson who was on Stevie’s band? Talk about a double standard and total hypocrisy.

LOL--She's not the boss of FM. HA

[BigAl84]

Power hungry cancer of the band is more like it. What a small, terrible human being.

[HomerMcvie]

Power hungry cancer of the band is more like it. What a small, terrible human being.

$he's the worst thing that ever happened to the band. $he's turned into a bitter old manipulative hag.

I'd love for her to read Brett's article. $he would just dismiss it as lies, though. I'm sure $he believes that $he's a saint.

[michelej1]

The people at Rolling Stone know she’s a liar, even if no one else does.

[Storms123]

$he's the worst thing that ever happened to the band. $he's turned into a bitter old manipulative hag.

I'd love for her to read Brett's article. $he would just dismiss it as lies, though. I'm sure $he believes that $he's a saint.

As we type, Karen is running around LA gobbling up all copies of RS, all the while, one of Stevie's fairy god-bank account draining dependents are deleting all apps on her phone, that she only keeps so she can do bathroom selfies at 3am.
Brett Tuggle who Stevie?
Brett is now my favorite member of FM EVER!!

[michelej1]

It was kinda like a marriage people. Lindsey would not deny that.

Deep dense, baby.

I don’t think the term divorce was wacky.

[SteveMacD]

And then replace him with Ricky Peterson who was on Stevie’s band? Talk about a double standard and total hypocrisy.
How is that hypocritical?

Yeah, it stinks Brett got fired, but he was uneasy about what happened and played defense for Lindsey after they had already started working with Neil and Mike. So, Brett got fired from something he didn’t truly believe in anyway.

Mick already knew Ricky and would jam with him at the bar when Ricky was on vacation. Since the tour, Ricky was part of the house band at the Peter Green tribute and played on the new version of “These Strange Times.” Yeah, he was in Stevie’s band, but bringing him in seems totally Mick driven.

[soul_drifter333]

The people at Rolling Stone know she’s a liar, even if no one else does.

I think that's why the magazine went after Brett. The media has been trying to get to the truth since the firing. While the whole 1st part of the article is interesting, they went for the kill at the end with all the difficult questions that everyone's been dying to know, and Brett didn't disappoint. I do feel that he tried to be neutral with his answers, but the facts are the facts.

[HomerMcvie]

I think that's why the magazine went after Brett. The media has been trying to get to the truth since the firing. While the whole 1st part of the article is interesting, they went for the kill at the end with all the difficult questions that everyone's been dying to know, and Brett didn't disappoint. I do feel that he tried to be neutral with his answers, but the facts are the facts.

And I couldn't help but thinking while reading, that even IF Lindsey ever came back(which I don't ever want to see), that Brett probably shot his own chances of returning in the ass, for daring to tell the truth about the old hag. $he's bitter, and holds a grudge like nobody's bidness.

[michelej1]

And I couldn't help but thinking while reading, that even IF Lindsey ever came back(which I don't ever want to see), that Brett probably shot his own chances of returning in the ass, for daring to tell the truth about the old hag. $he's bitter, and holds a grudge like nobody's bidness.

Totally thought the same thing. Even if Lindsey returns, he can never bring Brett back. You burned your bridges Brett. She wants you as dead as Ken Caillat's dog.

[HomerMcvie]

Totally thought the same thing. Even if Lindsey returns, he can never bring Brett back. You burned your bridges Brett. She wants you as dead as Ken Caillat's dog.

Yeah, but god I love him for being the only one willing to tell the truth!

[Nicks Fan]

Something I think when I read these articles is that if SN was telling the truth why did she refuse to answer any questions about his firing when this all went down initially? It was like she knew she wouldn't have a leg to stand on if a reporter with any real interest or knowledge in the bands legacy etc brought up things like the 2012 tour delay, her refusal to make new music, etc.

I guess she figures since FM may never play again she can say whatever suits her becuase in her eyes she won the game.

[bombaysaffires]

I know Stevie wrote a letter to him after his heart attack …
No.

She told the L.A. Times that she did.
Her assistant may have sent something to Kristen [Buckingham], I don’t know. Lindsey was disappointed he didn’t hear anything from the band. They’re still family.

It would be great if you and Lindsey tour next year.
Stranger things have happened, my friend. I’d like to see that happen. What’s mind-blowing is that Lindsey has been so great about his attitude towards this. I know he’s been hurt. At the same time, he’s remained open about going back. He’s tried to reach out. He gets radio silence, but he’s trying. He may not always be as sensitive as they want him to be, but I know that he is open to working with them again.

If his wife had anything to say about it, he’d probably never go back. That’s because of all the pain that’s been caused. At the same time, I know that Lindsey, deep down inside, wants to have a chance to finish that legacy the right way, with him involved. I know he’d be up for it.



This sounds to me like Karen may have had the decency to realize something should be sent that acknowledged what happened to LB, and if she did she did not do it at the behest of Stevie; possibly she suggested it to Stevie or possibly she even just sent it from herself. What is clear is that there was no direct note from Stevie or order from Stevie to Karen to send something on her behalf.

Also interesting to note that in her "Karen" role for LB Kristen is righteously pissed off (which of course we saw via her social media posts). LB is the 'weak link' in that Brett makes it sound like he (LB) could be lured back if left to his own devices (one kind of got a sense of this from LB's tv interviews post firing). It's almost being set up like LB is caught between two women in his life-- his old girlfriend who dumped him twice (70s and now) once she got to a point where she didn't need him anymore, and his wife who has stuck it out and clearly taken the lead role in raising their 3 kids. Hopefully he stops looking backwards with any sort of nostalgia and accepts the reality that she's a narcissistic twat.

[johnnystorms]

I do not like the term “redemption” for Lindsey. He did nothing to be forgiven for.

If Brett had allowed me to write the email, it would’ve stated “I hope one day there will be some vindication for Lindsey.”

Subconsciously revealing it WAS Lindsey's fault.. He can't well say his employer was to blame.

[johnnystorms]

Something I think when I read these articles is that if SN was telling the truth why did she refuse to answer any questions about his firing when this all went down initially? It was like she knew she wouldn't have a leg to stand on if a reporter with any real interest or knowledge in the bands legacy etc brought up things like the 2012 tour delay, her refusal to make new music, etc.

I guess she figures since FM may never play again she can say whatever suits her becuase in her eyes she won the game.

What was the 2012 tour delay?

[SteveMacD]

Something I think when I read these articles is that if SN was telling the truth why did she refuse to answer any questions about his firing when this all went down initially?
I’m guessing legal told them not to say anything beyond what they said.

It was like she knew she wouldn't have a leg to stand on if a reporter with any real interest or knowledge in the bands legacy etc brought up things like the 2012 tour delay, her refusal to make new music, etc.

I doubt any journalist would try to whatabout Stevie’s mainstream solo career to Lindsey’s specialty solo projects. All she would need to say about 2012 is that she wasn’t ready to deal with the drama of Fleetwood Mac that soon after the death of her mother. Furthermore, John was the oldest member at 66 in 2012 while Christine was the oldest at 75 in 2018, not to mention John had had a cancer scare, so it wasn’t the same equation.

As for not doing the new record, all she would need to say is that she didn’t like recording albums with Lindsey and that life’s too short. It’s not like that was a deep secret. She could even have said that they were free to fire her if they had wanted.

[SteveMacD]

What was the 2012 tour delay?

She decided to extend the “In Your Dreams” tour with Rod Stewart.

[michelej1]

Subconsciously revealing it WAS Lindsey's fault.. He can't well say his employer was to blame.

What was Lindsey's fault? No one has given any other excuse for his firing except Musicares and Brett's description of events is identical to what we'd already heard. It's not like he's been shielding Lindsey. If Lindsey did anything else besides get mad at the intro music and, possibly, smirk, then in the 1000 times people have had the opportunity to describe what else he might have done, no one has. He's not protecting his "employer." The objective facts protect his employer.

Did Lindsey annoy Stevie? No doubt. Did he do anything to justify what happened to him? No. Failing to bow down to someone who is your peer, despite the fact that she sees herself as your queen, does not justify getting fired from the band you made iconic.

[michelej1]

Also interesting to note that in her "Karen" role for LB Kristen is righteously pissed off (which of course we saw via her social media posts). LB is the 'weak link' in that Brett makes it sound like he (LB) could be lured back if left to his own devices (one kind of got a sense of this from LB's tv interviews post firing). It's almost being set up like LB is caught between two women in his life-- his old girlfriend who dumped him twice (70s and now) once she got to a point where she didn't need him anymore, and his wife who has stuck it out and clearly taken the lead role in raising their 3 kids. Hopefully he stops looking backwards with any sort of nostalgia and accepts the reality that she's a narcissistic twat.

Right. it's been clear to me that Lindsey wants back. His fans may hope he's moved on, found contentment, just wants to do his own thing. I think that he's done no such thing. What can you do? To paraphrase a demon, if I was the one to watch over his thinking, he would never be tempted.. at all.

To be clear, I feel the lure myself. I wanted things to end differently. I'm heartbroken anew every single day since this happened. I regret it every time I hear an FM song. The harmonies of falling, falling, falling, fell me. I loved them and loved them together. I always wanted to say goodbye to him in a crowd of thousands of people. Not in an auditorium that seats 300. However, his groveling, giving in, and yearning for people who should be seeking his forgiveness is not the price I'm willing to pay for that to happen.

[HomerMcvie]

Right. it's been clear to me that Lindsey wants back. His fans may hope he's moved on, found contentment, just wants to do his own thing. I think that he's done no such thing. What can you do? To paraphrase a demon, if I was the one to watch over his thinking, he would never be tempted.. at all.

To be clear, I feel the lure myself. I wanted things to end differently. I'm heartbroken anew every single day since this happened. I regret it every time I hear an FM song. The harmonies of falling, falling, falling, fell me. I loved them and loved them together. I always wanted to say goodbye to him in a crowd of thousands of people. Not in an auditorium that seats 300. However, his groveling, giving in, and yearning for people who should be seeking his forgiveness is not the price I'm willing to pay for that to happen.

I agree, and it makes me sick.

He was THE ONE with the backbone. The one who stood up for his own artistic integrity. And now he's going to fold like a cheap lawn chair, and go rejoin $tevie Nick's Fleetwood Mac Fajita Roundup????? If he does, that's just f*cking PATHETIC!:mad::mad::mad:

Give in to that narcissistic old $%&*#???? I hope Kristen is able to talk some sense into him!

[SteveMacD]

We still don’t have an answer to what “that” is. What was “that” issue?

The only question that got answered is who the first singer was, and it sounds like Neil was the first choice from the outset.

“There were some key things”

Like what?

“There had been some meetings that didn’t go well and people would walk out. There was some pretty upset people at other people. A lot of this was coming from Stevie and Lindsey’s differences about how they viewed this next tour.”

What were those differences???

“But there were a couple of bad exchanges in meetings and other things that lead to some high drama with Stevie.”

What was the nature of those bad exchanges? What were the other things?

“After the Pretenders tour and the success of that, she had gotten to a place where she wasn’t going to bend on things. She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band.”

What things? What’s “it?”

“It was really between Lindsey wanting time for a little short run of his solo work and then get back to the Mac.”

So, he wanted a delay from what they were planning? Isn’t that basically what the band said? I guess I’m not seeing the lie. Maybe an exaggeration on time on Stevie’s part, but that’s hardly new for her.

But tensions were building, Fleetwood said, because Buckingham would not sign off on a new tour they'd been planning for a year and a half.

"It became just a huge impasse and hit a brick wall, where we decided that we had to part company," Fleetwood said.
"This team wanted to get out on the road. And one of the members did not want to get out on the road for a year," Nicks said. "We just couldn't agree.
The accounts line up surprisingly well.

[michelej1]

Just you wait. Now, Carlos will give an interview and say that Lindsey is scum of the earth. Battle of the back up musicians.

I love the way Brett described Lindsey's work on the songs, so you didn't even realize what instruments were really being used, the way he sped up or slowed down. Mick made me laugh when he said you'd have to beg the guy to stop trying to make his guitar sound like a violin. Brett reminded me of that.

[johnnystorms]

What was Lindsey's fault? No one has given any other excuse for his firing except Musicares and Brett's description of events is identical to what we'd already heard. It's not like he's been shielding Lindsey. If Lindsey did anything else besides get mad at the intro music and, possibly, smirk, then in the 1000 times people have had the opportunity to describe what else he might have done, no one has. He's not protecting his "employer." The objective facts protect his employer.

Did Lindsey annoy Stevie? No doubt. Did he do anything to justify what happened to him? No. Failing to bow down to someone who is your peer, despite the fact that she sees herself as your queen, does not justify getting fired from the band you made iconic.

YEARS of belittling and minimizing Stevie. go back to kicking her onstage in Australia!! She's supposed to forget that?

[sue]

Where I come from, and I don’t mean village, town, country...I mean decency.
You do write to someone who has had a heart attack, you write a handwritten letter......especially someone you’ve known for decades.

You do not expect a reply!!
They’ve just had a heart attack, for God’s sake.
(That’s besides the fact that you sacked them.Yes you)

[Jondalar]

YEARS of belittling and minimizing Stevie. go back to kicking her onstage in Australia!! She's supposed to forget that?

Oh well she deserved it. He should of kicked her harder. The truth is Lindsey criticisms of Stevie were accurate. Her ego just couldn’t take it.

[Macfan4life]

And I couldn't help but thinking while reading, that even IF Lindsey ever came back(which I don't ever want to see), that Brett probably shot his own chances of returning in the ass, for daring to tell the truth about the old hag. $he's bitter, and holds a grudge like nobody's bidness.
I thought the same thing. But its clear Brett is ok with it. Brett told the truth to Rolling Stone which is going to crush $tevie. Yes, he will never be asked to join the band again but he is at peace with that. They booted him off their last tour. It really is $tevie Mac. She controls everything.

Funny story about Brett. During Lindsey's last solo tour, I was in the front row. After songs, Brett was looking at me and kept mouthing something. I could not understand what he was trying to tell me. Then when another song ended, I finally understood reading his lips "I will see you after the show." WFH? Why is Brett going to see me after the show? Does he think I am someone else? I was really confused and a little excited at the same time. Then I found what was going on. The girl next me to was who he was communicating with. Apparently they knew each other LOL

[Macfan4life]

What was the 2012 tour delay?
The Heart and Soul tour was supposed to open in West Palm Beach, Florida. Rod lives in Palm Beach and they were practicing for the tour in downtown West Palm Beach. The first several nights of the tour were cancelled because Rod was sick. I think they made most of the dates up at the end of the tour.

[UnwindedDreams]

What was the 2012 tour delay?

It wasn't just the Rod Stewart Tour.
She continued the In Your Dreams Tour in June of 2012. Picked up the Rod Stewart Tour in late July. And wrapped up IYD in September 2012.

Mick did an interview with Playboy that year where he revealed he wanted FM to tour in 2012 and didn't know if they'd tour again.

[Macfan4life]

It wasn't just the Rod Stewart Tour.
She continued the In Your Dreams Tour in June of 2012. Picked up the Rod Stewart Tour in late July. And wrapped up IYD in September 2012.

Mick did an interview with Playboy that year where he revealed he wanted FM to tour in 2012 and didn't know if they'd tour again.
This thread is so long, I did not see the context of the question. I thought the question was why the Heart and Soul tour was delayed.....not the Unleashed tour.
Misunderstanding.
Sorry

[UnwindedDreams]

Don't be sorry, please! Your Brett story is great. I met him and Neale outside a Sheraton once too. Actually had a long chat with Neale where he told me he said to Mick the band should do an acoustic "Rumours" performance.

[UnwindedDreams]

As for not doing the new record, all she would need to say is that she didn’t like recording albums with Lindsey and that life’s too short. It’s not like that was a deep secret. She could even have said that they were free to fire her if they had wanted.
She could've said that and that she would only tour and not record with Fleetwood Mac, but she didn't say that. When RS asked her why she wasn't on Buckingham McVie she said "I've been on the road since September of 2016, so I don't understand their premise." She made it like they didn't wait for her to record and was thus not truthful.
Buckingham McVie started recording in early 2014. She chose to go to Nashville, which is her choice. Buckingham McVie did actually chart higher than 24 Karat Gold did in the United Kingdom.
There was a Mac break from mid July to October 2015. She didn't start 24 Karat Gold Tour until September of 2016.

[BigAl84]

We still don’t have an answer to what “that” is. What was “that” issue?

The only question that got answered is who the first singer was, and it sounds like Neil was the first choice from the outset.

“There were some key things”

Like what?

“There had been some meetings that didn’t go well and people would walk out. There was some pretty upset people at other people. A lot of this was coming from Stevie and Lindsey’s differences about how they viewed this next tour.”

What were those differences???

“But there were a couple of bad exchanges in meetings and other things that lead to some high drama with Stevie.”

What was the nature of those bad exchanges? What were the other things?

“After the Pretenders tour and the success of that, she had gotten to a place where she wasn’t going to bend on things. She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band.”

What things? What’s “it?”

“It was really between Lindsey wanting time for a little short run of his solo work and then get back to the Mac.”

So, he wanted a delay from what they were planning? Isn’t that basically what the band said? I guess I’m not seeing the lie. Maybe an exaggeration on time on Stevie’s part, but that’s hardly new for her.



The accounts line up surprisingly well.

You’re like the William Barr of the ledge....you’ll defend Stevie and the Mac at any and all costs, regardless of any amount of evidence that they’re sh*tty individuals.

[Justin Reach]

YEARS of belittling and minimizing Stevie. go back to kicking her onstage in Australia!! She's supposed to forget that?

The thing that puzzles me is why wasn't Lindsey sacked back then if he was so abusive to Stevie? You could argue that Stevie's had the main "pulling power" in the band since her solo career started in the early 80's so i'm sure that if she'd wanted Lindsey fired back then it would have happened. Maybe because back then Mick needed Lindsey to make new FM albums, but now making new music isn't important to Mick anymore.

[BigAl84]

Oh well she deserved it. He should of kicked her harder. The truth is Lindsey criticisms of Stevie were accurate. Her ego just couldn’t take it.

Funny how Stevie fans always, always, always gloss over John McVie and his darling, booze infused abusive behavior of pretty much the entire decade of the 70s....it’s pretty insulting to Christine. It’s always been easier to cast Lindsey as the problem child, this has been going on for decades.

[UnwindedDreams]

The thing that puzzles me is why wasn't Lindsey sacked back then if he was so abusive to Stevie?
I ask the same thing. Vanessa Carlton tweeted Lindsey has "a history of abusing women". If Mick witnessed abuse, why didn't he fire Lindsey or call for his arrest?

Didn't they say Stevie attacked Lindsey and then he choked her on a car in 86 or 87? Yet he welcomed Lindsey back from 97-18.

[jmn3]

We still don’t have an answer to what “that” is. What was “that” issue?

The only question that got answered is who the first singer was, and it sounds like Neil was the first choice from the outset.

“There were some key things”

Like what?

“There had been some meetings that didn’t go well and people would walk out. There was some pretty upset people at other people. A lot of this was coming from Stevie and Lindsey’s differences about how they viewed this next tour.”

What were those differences???

“But there were a couple of bad exchanges in meetings and other things that lead to some high drama with Stevie.”

What was the nature of those bad exchanges? What were the other things?

“After the Pretenders tour and the success of that, she had gotten to a place where she wasn’t going to bend on things. She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band.”

What things? What’s “it?”

“It was really between Lindsey wanting time for a little short run of his solo work and then get back to the Mac.”

So, he wanted a delay from what they were planning? Isn’t that basically what the band said? I guess I’m not seeing the lie. Maybe an exaggeration on time on Stevie’s part, but that’s hardly new for her.



The accounts line up surprisingly well.

You're ridiculous. The amount of bending you have done to justify what they did in firing Lindsey has honestly been baffling. The accounts don't line up - "a little short run of his solo work" equates to the 18 months that Stevie said he wanted them to delay the tour? It was a major exaggeration and clearly, if one has any critical thinking skills at all, NOT the reason for the firing, it was the excuse. And even so, given that SHE DELAYED A FLEETWOOD MAC TOUR HERSELF IN 2012 FOR HER SOLO WORK, the hypocrisy is as thick as mud. Why is it okay for Stevie to delay a tour and not Lindsey? Where is that question thrown back at her? What would her answer be?

If there's a bigger there there, then Ms. Nicks should say what it was. But really, it was wahhhhh Lindsey is mean. WAHHHHH Lindsey didn't take my signed copy of Bella Donna!! WAHHHHHH Lindsey said I wanted to shack up with other men!!! HE TOLD ME TO CHANGE THE TENSE IN MY SONG!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?! Or my favorite...was it the 2009 tour that she bitched about not having enough drama or something?

She's been a clown about the man for years. At this point she despises him and at 70 finally got the clout and balls to get him fired as her final payback. That's the bottom line. She has surrounded herself with yes-men who live in her happy little dancing bubble telling her how amazing she is and without her Mom and Dad around, nobody has the nerve to tell her when she's being a ridiculous baby since everyone in the bubble is on the Stevie bank train.

[elle]

We still don’t have an answer to what “that” is. What was “that” issue?

The only question that got answered is who the first singer was, and it sounds like Neil was the first choice from the outset.

“There were some key things”

Like what?

“There had been some meetings that didn’t go well and people would walk out. There was some pretty upset people at other people. A lot of this was coming from Stevie and Lindsey’s differences about how they viewed this next tour.”

What were those differences???

“But there were a couple of bad exchanges in meetings and other things that lead to some high drama with Stevie.”

What was the nature of those bad exchanges? What were the other things?

“After the Pretenders tour and the success of that, she had gotten to a place where she wasn’t going to bend on things. She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band.”
ll.
if you read Lindsey's interviews in 2018 you would know exactly what he's talking about.

they were negotiating the new FM tour the whole fall of 2017. they had a number of meetings. Lindsey asked for several months to tour his new album before starting FM tour. they were going back and forth and Stevie said no. after several meetings he said he walked out, because Stevie didn't want to give an inch. so he proposed parallel tours then, touring solo in between Mac dates, and no Mac tour postponement. Mick was too chicken to even mention that to Stevie apparently. Lindsey found that out when they got together for Musicares rehearsals. even after Musicares, Lindsey still thought the parallel tours are a go, starting in summer 2018.

if you recall FM tour started on Lindsey's bday, Oct 3 2018. with Lindsey and his dates in between, it was supposed to start some time in June 2018. so they somehow didn't mind postponing it.

it's nice to have Brett giving us additional details now. it makes the story complete. :nod:

[jmn3]

I ask the same thing. Vanessa Carlton tweeted Lindsey has "a history of abusing women". If Mick witnessed abuse, why didn't he fire Lindsey or call for his arrest?

Didn't they say Stevie attacked Lindsey and then he choked her on a car in 86 or 87? Yet he welcomed Lindsey back from 97-18.

This exactly. Is Lindsey was so abusive toward Stevie, why wasn't he fired long before '87? Why did they invite him to the Oakland and LA shows at the end of 1990? Why did Stevie stand on stage for Landslide with him saying she hoped he would find it in his heart to make music with her again some day? Why did he play on Behind the Mask? The box set? Why did Mick work with him in '96? Why did Stevie work with him on Twisted? The Dance? Her career resurged after The Dance. Why did she go back and record Say You Will? Why tour for 18 months? Why do Soundstage with him? Why do Unleashed or the 2013 tour? Why bring him in for Soldier's Angel? Why do the stupid Sara dance thing or the Landslide hug for years?

As for Vanessa Carlton? Sit down lady. Why did you have Lindsey play on one of your songs? Why would you engage with a man like that at all?

[elle]

She could've said that and that she would only tour and not record with Fleetwood Mac, but she didn't say that. When RS asked her why she wasn't on Buckingham McVie she said "I've been on the road since September of 2016, so I don't understand their premise." She made it like they didn't wait for her to record and was thus not truthful.
Buckingham McVie started recording in early 2014. She chose to go to Nashville, which is her choice. Buckingham McVie did actually chart higher than 24 Karat Gold did in the United Kingdom.
There was a Mac break from mid July to October 2015. She didn't start 24 Karat Gold Tour until September of 2016.

yes, and in one of the interviews the other day, Stevie said she made 24k gold because "Fleetwood Mac was on hiatus" so she had nothing better to do with her time. meanwhile, the other 4 were recording in the studio, and begging her to come to the studio with them, and Mick was giving interviews saying how he was hoping that her stint will be short and she will rejoin them in the studio.

but everyone here was conveniently citing some imaginary "contractual obligation" that she supposedly had to fill.

it's nice to see truth coming out these days.

and people still not acknowledging it is also interesting to see. not surprising.

[elle]

You’re like the William Barr of the ledge....you’ll defend Stevie and the Mac at any and all costs, regardless of any amount of evidence that they’re sh*tty individuals.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[UnwindedDreams]

meanwhile, the other 4 were recording in the studio, and begging her to come to the studio with them, and Mick was giving interviews saying how he was hoping that her stint will be short and she will rejoin them in the studio.

but everyone here was conveniently citing some imaginary "contractual obligation" that she supposedly had to fill.

I remember he specifically said "young Stevie" hasn't joined us.

She made 24 Karat Gold in April 2014. I guess she was busy mixing and tweaking it until OWTS rehearsals started in August 2014? Oh wait...the filming of The Voice with Adam Levine.:laugh:

[BigAl84]

yes, and in one of the interviews the other day, Stevie said she made 24k gold because "Fleetwood Mac was on hiatus" so she had nothing better to do with her time. meanwhile, the other 4 were recording in the studio, and begging her to come to the studio with them, and Mick was giving interviews saying how he was hoping that her stint will be short and she will rejoin them in the studio.

but everyone here was conveniently citing some imaginary "contractual obligation" that she supposedly had to fill.

it's nice to see truth coming out these days.

and people still not acknowledging it is also interesting to see. not surprising.

And she made a giant stink about how she had to make that album in two weeks by going to nashvile. She threw herself on the stone as the big martyr who had to jump through hoops for Fleetwood Mac.

[John Run]

I think the Brett interview provided further confirmation to what most of us already knew. It does show that Fleetwood Mac used semantics to frame their truth which had some significant factual omissions, and essentially everything that Lindsey said in public or to some individuals during his tour were factually correct.

Lindsey got fired, Stevie wanted him fired, the rest of the band went along with it for the paycheck. (Not anticipating they would have to pay him north of $10 million for not playing with them) As Brett said, the contracts were signed. One thing I can speak to and it is not an opinion, the suit was brilliantly written and boxed the defendant into a legal corner. Especially now knowing there were contracts to tour and that Lindsey was stating verifiable facts. No wonder the suit was settled in record time.

As I stated in a prior thread is it clear to me that Lindsey wants back. We can debate if it is the right thing to do, or if us as individuals would make the same choice, but Lindsey needs and wants to be part of this band. Which is more than one can say for Stevie.

Lindsey is a different person than he was in 1987 that is for sure. He has mellowed and become sentimental for the art and people that shaped him. The driving factor to come back is not the money or I think Kristen would be far more open to idea of a return. (Hell if you believe Celebrity Net Worth, Lindsey is the wealthiest member of Fleetwood Mac. CNW is not a demonstrably accurate source, but it gives you an idea that his financial situation is quite stable)

There are the same 2 or 3 posters who repeatedly twist themselves into physically and mentally impossible contortions to defend Stevie's role in this process or to maintain their anti-Buckingham positions, and it is futile to respond. Again, it is the same 2 or 3 people and some once respected posters are now nothing more than shadow puppets who enjoy seeing people react to their written gymnastics.

Stevie has cutoff communication with the rest of the band. Mick has reconnected with Lindsey. Most likely Christine and Lindsey have communicated as well. Brett specifically notes that John McVie didn't want the change. Mick has great survival instincts. He sees the trend.

One side note - Those of you think Brett burned a bridge, there are never bridges burned in this band. Just hot flames that surround the bridge and block it from view. If Lindsey comes back, Brett will be back.

I do have some cynical thoughts. Why is this all coming out now? Those of us who have been around a while, the similarities to 1996 are for sure prescient. We will see where it all ends up, but at the very least I think we will see some level of musical and / or public interaction among Lindsey, Mick, Christine, and John.

Sorry, that turned into a wide ranging stream of consciousness....

[BigAl84]

I think the Brett interview provided further confirmation to what most of us already knew. It does show that Fleetwood Mac used semantics to frame their truth which had some significant factual omissions, and essentially everything that Lindsey said in public or to some individuals during his tour were factually correct.

Lindsey got fired, Stevie wanted him fired, the rest of the band went along with it for the paycheck. (Not anticipating they would have to pay him north of $10 million for not playing with them) As Brett said, the contracts were signed. One thing I can speak to and it is not an opinion, the suit was brilliantly written and boxed the defendant into a legal corner. Especially now knowing their were contracts to tour and that Lindsey was stating verifiable facts. No wonder the suit was settled in record time.

As I stated in a prior thread is it clear to me that Lindsey wants back. We can debate if it is the right thing to do, or if us as individuals would make the same choice, but Lindsey needs and wants to be part of this band. Which is more than one can say for Stevie.

Lindsey is a different person than he was in 1987 that is for sure. He has mellowed and become sentimental for the art and people that shaped him. The driving factor to come back is not the money or I think Kristen would be far more open to idea of a return. (Hell if you believe celebrity net worth, Lindsey is the wealthiest member of Fleetwood Mac. Its not accurate, but gives you an idea that his financial situation is quite stable)

There are the same 2 or 3 posters who repeatedly twist themselves into physically and mentally impossible contortions to defend Stevie's roll in this process or to maintain their anti-Buckingham positions, and it is futile to respond. Again, it it the same 2 or 3 people and some once respected posters are now nothing more than shadow puppets who enjoy seeing people react to their written gymnastics.

Stevie has cutoff communication with the rest of the band. Mick has reconnected with Lindsey. Most likely Christine and Lindsey have communicated as well. Brett specifically notes that John McVie didn't want the change. Mick has great survival instincts. He sees the trend.

One side note - Those of you think Brett burned a bridge, there are never bridges burned in this band. Just hot flames that surround the bridge and block it from view. If Lindsey comes back, Brett will be back.

I do have some cynical thoughts. Why is this all coming out now? Those of us who have been around a while, the similarities to 1996 are for sure prescient. We will see where it all ends up, but at the very least I think we will see some level of musical and / or public interaction among Lindsey, Mick, Christine, and John.

Sorry, that turned into a wide ranging stream of consciousness....

Great post. Yeah there is definitely no bridges to burn. Heck, they were ready to replace John instead of postponing the tour when he got sick. Lindsey put the kabosh on that.

[Storms123]

This exactly. Is Lindsey was so abusive toward Stevie, why wasn't he fired long before '87? Why did they invite him to the Oakland and LA shows at the end of 1990? Why did Stevie stand on stage for Landslide with him saying she hoped he would find it in his heart to make music with her again some day? Why did he play on Behind the Mask? The box set? Why did Mick work with him in '96? Why did Stevie work with him on Twisted? The Dance? Her career resurged after The Dance. Why did she go back and record Say You Will? Why tour for 18 months? Why do Soundstage with him? Why do Unleashed or the 2013 tour? Why bring him in for Soldier's Angel? Why do the stupid Sara dance thing or the Landslide hug for years?

As for Vanessa Carlton? Sit down lady. Why did you have Lindsey play on one of your songs? Why would you engage with a man like that at all?


Let's also not forget that when Mick talked about the fight at Christine's where he(LB) quit the band, he botched the story completely, made LB look like a jerk and STEVIE came out and defended LB.

As for Vanessa--This is the completely opposite of Stevie slogging herself on to younger/new performers to stay relevant. Vanessa needs Stevie to stay relevant.

[soul_drifter333]

I think the Brett interview provided further confirmation to what most of us already knew. It does show that Fleetwood Mac used semantics to frame their truth which had some significant factual omissions, and essentially everything that Lindsey said in public or to some individuals during his tour were factually correct.

Lindsey got fired, Stevie wanted him fired, the rest of the band went along with it for the paycheck. (Not anticipating they would have to pay him north of $10 million for not playing with them) As Brett said, the contracts were signed. One thing I can speak to and it is not an opinion, the suit was brilliantly written and boxed the defendant into a legal corner. Especially now knowing there were contracts to tour and that Lindsey was stating verifiable facts. No wonder the suit was settled in record time.

As I stated in a prior thread is it clear to me that Lindsey wants back. We can debate if it is the right thing to do, or if us as individuals would make the same choice, but Lindsey needs and wants to be part of this band. Which is more than one can say for Stevie.

Lindsey is a different person than he was in 1987 that is for sure. He has mellowed and become sentimental for the art and people that shaped him. The driving factor to come back is not the money or I think Kristen would be far more open to idea of a return. (Hell if you believe Celebrity Net Worth, Lindsey is the wealthiest member of Fleetwood Mac. CNW is not a demonstrably accurate source, but it gives you an idea that his financial situation is quite stable)

There are the same 2 or 3 posters who repeatedly twist themselves into physically and mentally impossible contortions to defend Stevie's roll in this process or to maintain their anti-Buckingham positions, and it is futile to respond. Again, it is the same 2 or 3 people and some once respected posters are now nothing more than shadow puppets who enjoy seeing people react to their written gymnastics.

Stevie has cutoff communication with the rest of the band. Mick has reconnected with Lindsey. Most likely Christine and Lindsey have communicated as well. Brett specifically notes that John McVie didn't want the change. Mick has great survival instincts. He sees the trend.

One side note - Those of you think Brett burned a bridge, there are never bridges burned in this band. Just hot flames that surround the bridge and block it from view. If Lindsey comes back, Brett will be back.

I do have some cynical thoughts. Why is this all coming out now? Those of us who have been around a while, the similarities to 1996 are for sure prescient. We will see where it all ends up, but at the very least I think we will see some level of musical and / or public interaction among Lindsey, Mick, Christine, and John.

Sorry, that turned into a wide ranging stream of consciousness....

If you go back and watch the ugly interview they first did on CBS This Morning, Mick said that Lindsey refused to sign the contract, so someone is lying and we now know that it was Mick. But what they, especially Stevie, didn't realize was the huge backlash they would receive for their actions. I guess they thought that it would just blow over. The other interesting thing is Brett said that there was tension with Mick and Stevie early on, so we know Mick's involvement in the firing was much earlier than originally thought. I think that the reason that they're not communicating today is because they are embarrassed that they lied on national TV and got caught. The band lied for Stevie and Mick and just to be able to promote the tour that they had already signed off on. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that their management (Irvin Azoff) played a HUGE part in the lies and convincing them it could work without Lindsey and the financial trouble they would be in if they cancelled the tour, but at this point they were in too deep.

Not only do I not want to see Lindsey go back, but I don't want to see or hear that the band is every touring or recording again. They're too old and need to give it rest. Can you imagine having to hear the onstage speeches about how much they love each other and how nothing can ever come between them? And then Lindsey and Stevie holding hands and making lovey face at each other throughout the show? I'm sure some people (even some on this site) would still buy it hook, line, and stinker!

[bwboy]

Lindsey said in virtually every interview he gave when BuckVie came out that it wasn't a Fleetwood Mac album and was never meant to be. So why all the talk about Stevie being the one who lied? I mean, it's funny now to re-read those interviews where Lindsey denied it was ever meant to be a FM album, especially the one where he acted confused as to why the interviewer would even think it was ever meant to be a FM album. So really, these interviews should be taken with a grain of salt and enjoyed for what they are- a snapshot of a certain time when people feel or think a certain way. And subject to change.

[bwboy]

I think the Brett interview provided further confirmation to what most of us already knew. It does show that Fleetwood Mac used semantics to frame their truth which had some significant factual omissions, and essentially everything that Lindsey said in public or to some individuals during his tour were factually correct.

Lindsey got fired, Stevie wanted him fired, the rest of the band went along with it for the paycheck. (Not anticipating they would have to pay him north of $10 million for not playing with them) As Brett said, the contracts were signed. One thing I can speak to and it is not an opinion, the suit was brilliantly written and boxed the defendant into a legal corner. Especially now knowing there were contracts to tour and that Lindsey was stating verifiable facts. No wonder the suit was settled in record time.



I took the fact that FM was willing to settle so quickly with Lindsey was proof of how much they wanted to be done with him. I thought Lindsey won $14 million when he settled with FM? That's about what he would have earned if he had toured with them, and he deserved it, if contracts were indeed signed.

[John Run]

BW is right on the Buckingham McVie interviews. Both Lindsey and Christine stated it was always a duo album. I do think that is a little bit different than openly lying about why someone was terminated from employment after forty years. One did not cause anyone loss of income or emotional trauma, the other did. One was about inclusion, one was about exclusion.

I do believe that was said to allow the Buckingham McVie album to stand on its own merits and to not put Stevie in a position where she would have to answer questions about her lack of participation and protect FM as an on-going concern, thinking the five would be on Tour in less than 12 months.

[John Run]

I took the fact that FM was willing to settle so quickly with Lindsey was proof of how much they wanted to be done with him. I thought Lindsey won $14 million when he settled with FM? That's about what he would have earned if he had toured with them, and he deserved it, if contracts were indeed signed.


I use $10 million as a place holder as I am not privy to the settlement documents and rarely even in the most favorable settlements do you receive the initial filing demand amount.

I will say this next part with as much cushion and care as possible, as I don't want to offend. In 25 years of similar work, no one settles an 8 figure lawsuit in 3 months because they want to be done with someone, it is unheard of. It was most likely settled because the defendants likely exposure to damages upon discovery and entrance into public record are far greater than the settlement demand.

[SteveMacD]

YEARS of belittling and minimizing Stevie. go back to kicking her onstage in Australia!! She's supposed to forget that?
Stevie has never said that Lindsey abused her. It’s an unfounded accusation. She was in a position where she didn’t need him anymore after 1981 yet continued working with him, if not begrudgingly. She said he was mean to her, but then I’m sure she was an absolute peach.

There are enough legitimate issues between them that bringing up a baseless accusation is unnecessary and unfair to Lindsey.

[jmn3]

Lindsey said in virtually every interview he gave when BuckVie came out that it wasn't a Fleetwood Mac album and was never meant to be. So why all the talk about Stevie being the one who lied? I mean, it's funny now to re-read those interviews where Lindsey denied it was ever meant to be a FM album, especially the one where he acted confused as to why the interviewer would even think it was ever meant to be a FM album. So really, these interviews should be taken with a grain of salt and enjoyed for what they are- a snapshot of a certain time when people feel or think a certain way. And subject to change.

Because they all lied about BuckVie's original intent to placate Stevie. It's pretty obvious, they all toed the line to keep peace within the band of five. It was a Fleetwood Mac album in every sense of the word, just as much as Behind the Mask or Say You Will are. Does anyone really think that if not for fear of pissing Stevie off and having her officially quit (and thus, retiring their cash cow, touring as the Rumours 5), they would have not wanted to release BuckVie as a Fleetwood Mac album? Buckingham McVie is a completely unknown entity that never released anything before under that name. Say what you want about the songs or how Stevie's lack of involvement hurt the album, a release under the Fleetwood Mac moniker, even in 2017, would sell a hell of a lot more than Buckingham McVie. Of course they wanted it to be a Fleetwood Mac album. As BuckVie, it's a good album that had nice songs on it. But it will fade into obscurity much more than any album that has the Fleetwood Mac brand attached to it. The irony, and to Lindsey, most likely the true punch to the throat, was that he lied and contorted his words to adapt to the BuckVie narrative to placate Stevie - and then not a year later, she engineered his ousting from the band he went against his original wishes to try and keep together.

Face it, Buckingham McVie was the last straw for Stevie. Her ego couldn't handle that they went and did that despite her carrying on about how it was dumb to make new music and release it. In her ever growing bag of ridiculously stupid shoulder chips, this was the last chip in. Musicares just exploded the bag (enough with that metaphor :p).

[HomerMcvie]

You’re like the William Barr of the ledge....you’ll defend Stevie and the Mac at any and all costs, regardless of any amount of evidence that they’re sh*tty individuals.

Sir, I would like to buy you a drink!:wavey:

[BigAl84]

BW is right on the Buckingham McVie interviews. Both Lindsey and Christine stated it was always a duo album. I do think that is a little bit different than openly lying about why someone was terminated from employment after forty years. One did not cause anyone loss of income or emotional trauma, the other did. One was about inclusion, one was about exclusion.

I do believe that was said to allow the Buckingham McVie album to stand on its own merits and to not put Stevie in a position where she would have to answer questions about her lack of participation and protect FM as an on-going concern, thinking the five would be on Tour in less than 12 months.

Just so you know that is partially incorrect. The initial press for quite a while was "we've started making new music and we hope stevie will join us" It wasn't until the album had an announced release date that Lindsey and Christine GRACIOUSLY changed their tune and said it had always been a duo album. They were trying to be kind to Stevie. Why, I dont know.

There was several months of press and interviews that stated it was hopefully, a fleetwood mac album in the works.

[HomerMcvie]

Just so you know that is partially incorrect. The initial press for quite a while was "we've started making new music and we hope stevie will join us" It wasn't until the album had an announced release date that Lindsey and Christine GRACIOUSLY changed their tune and said it had always been a duo album. They were trying to be kind to Stevie. Why, I dont know.


I suppose everybody(not just Mick) liked the bigger paycheck.

And by keeping her from quitting, they were keeping the Rumours 5 alive. I guess that was important to them. Just not her. $he couldn't do her happy dance with that horrible man in the band.

[Justin Reach]

I wonder if all of Stevie's insecurities all go back to when she first joined Fleetwood Mac. Maybe she still thinks that she's only in Fleetwood Mac because Mick wanted Lindsey in the band and she was only invited in because of Lindsey.

[BigAl84]

As I've always said, the other 4 broke the unspoken rule of Fleetwood Mac that apparently they didn't realize, even though I think it was painfully obvious to fans.

That rule was: you can start all the albums you want and you can court Stevie for her participation all you want. HOWEVER, it is not permitted to continue said project(s) after she bows out. All Fleetwood Mac projects are shelved indefinitely without the blessing of Stevie. Renaming a Fleetwood Mac album as not a Fleetwood Mac album does not count, because it still makes Stevie look bad. Everyone and their mother saw she was the odd one out.

To this day I wonder what would of happened had they chose to re-record Mick and John's part with other musicians so even on paper it couldn't be argued a Fleetwood Mac album sans-stevie.

The rub was always the fact that they had the balls to release a Fleetwood Mac album without her by simplying changing the name. The media, everyone picked up on that and she knew it too. It goes against her entire narrative of there only being one troublemaker in Fleetwood Mac, Lindsey Buckingham. This project painted her out to be the issue.

[elle]

Lindsey said in virtually every interview he gave when BuckVie came out that it wasn't a Fleetwood Mac album and was never meant to be. So why all the talk about Stevie being the one who lied? I mean, it's funny now to re-read those interviews where Lindsey denied it was ever meant to be a FM album, especially the one where he acted confused as to why the interviewer would even think it was ever meant to be a FM album. So really, these interviews should be taken with a grain of salt and enjoyed for what they are- a snapshot of a certain time when people feel or think a certain way. And subject to change.

and every Lindsey fan was saying he is lying. you can go into those threads and check for yourself, how much we hated that he's covering up for Stevie. didn't help him in the end, did it? when Lindsey lies, we call him on that.

when Stevie lies, many of her fans go back to whataboutism and say - but but but - lindsey lied too. just like you did here. without admitting the obvious, that Stevie or Mick were lying.

[BigAl84]

It's not even a case of Lindsey covering for anyone. There were early interviews where he mentioned he was making music with the other 3 and they were hoping Stevie would come around. The initial spin was a hopeful Fleetwood Mac album.

[BigAl84]

One example of many:

OCTOBER 2014
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/lindsey-buckingham-new-fleetwood-mac/

"We never envisioned finishing the album in the short term," he pointed out. "We set it aside. Stevie will come in and participate. I have material I had been working on. There’s no danger that it will slip between the tracks. It’s too profound to."

In the meantime, fans can only wonder what the next Fleetwood Mac record will sound like. But while Buckingham hinted that he took "massive liberties" with McVie's piano-vocal demos, he also seemed to signal that the end result won't be all that dissimilar from the group's classic sound. "It’s a very interesting thing when someone who helped to define the interaction leaves for that amount of time," he mused of McVie's return. "You don’t know how it’s going to play out. But this something that feels really good. It feels really circular."

[jbrownsjr]

This exactly. Is Lindsey was so abusive toward Stevie, why wasn't he fired long before '87? Why did they invite him to the Oakland and LA shows at the end of 1990? Why did Stevie stand on stage for Landslide with him saying she hoped he would find it in his heart to make music with her again some day? Why did he play on Behind the Mask? The box set? Why did Mick work with him in '96? Why did Stevie work with him on Twisted? The Dance? Her career resurged after The Dance. Why did she go back and record Say You Will? Why tour for 18 months? Why do Soundstage with him? Why do Unleashed or the 2013 tour? Why bring him in for Soldier's Angel? Why do the stupid Sara dance thing or the Landslide hug for years?

As for Vanessa Carlton? Sit down lady. Why did you have Lindsey play on one of your songs? Why would you engage with a man like that at all?

ah ah ah, Don't forget Soldier's Angel. When shippers had them getting married because he guested on that song. :p

[elle]

Because they all lied about BuckVie's original intent to placate Stevie. It's pretty obvious, they all toed the line to keep peace within the band of five. It was a Fleetwood Mac album in every sense of the word, just as much as Behind the Mask or Say You Will are. Does anyone really think that if not for fear of pissing Stevie off and having her officially quit (and thus, retiring their cash cow, touring as the Rumours 5), they would have not wanted to release BuckVie as a Fleetwood Mac album? Buckingham McVie is a completely unknown entity that never released anything before under that name. Say what you want about the songs or how Stevie's lack of involvement hurt the album, a release under the Fleetwood Mac moniker, even in 2017, would sell a hell of a lot more than Buckingham McVie. Of course they wanted it to be a Fleetwood Mac album. As BuckVie, it's a good album that had nice songs on it. But it will fade into obscurity much more than any album that has the Fleetwood Mac brand attached to it. The irony, and to Lindsey, most likely the true punch to the throat, was that he lied and contorted his words to adapt to the BuckVie narrative to placate Stevie - and then not a year later, she engineered his ousting from the band he went against his original wishes to try and keep together.

Face it, Buckingham McVie was the last straw for Stevie. Her ego couldn't handle that they went and did that despite her carrying on about how it was dumb to make new music and release it. In her ever growing bag of ridiculously stupid shoulder chips, this was the last chip in. Musicares just exploded the bag (enough with that metaphor :p).

ha - you said it way more eloquent than i did.

and also, we know it was all set in motion before Musicares. Musicares was just used as an excuse. Mike C got the call practically the same day that Lindsey got the call he was out. they just needed to figure out how to rewrite the contracts they all signed. that's what probably took them all those months and ending in the tour delay.

[elle]

It's not even a case of Lindsey covering for anyone. There were early interviews where he mentioned he was making music with the other 3 and they were hoping Stevie would come around. The initial spin was a hopeful Fleetwood Mac album.

yes, but when BuckVie came out Lindsey and Christine were both toeing that idiotic line about "it was always meant to be a duet album." even though for years before that, and then again in 2018, Lindsey was very clear it was gonna be FM album. as was Mick. in 2017, they were all appeasing Stevie, so that she would still do cashgrab with them in 2018. and then in the fall of 2017, Mick was appeasing Stevie completely separately when she was probably trying to pull out of FM tour. probably Mick and management both. and set it all up in motion to do whatever she wanted by Musicares, so that they can all have their big cashgrab tour.

except Lindsey didn't go down quietly like they hoped for. he sued them and didn't mind telling the world what they did. and now Brett added in a few missing pieces.

[BigAl84]

yes, but when BuckVie came out Lindsey and Christine were both toeing that idiotic line about "it was always meant to be a duet album." even though for years before that, and then again in 2018, Lindsey was very clear it was gonna be FM album. as was Mick. in 2017, they were all appeasing Stevie, so that she would still do cashgrab with them in 2018. and then in the fall of 2017, Mick was appeasing Stevie completely separately when she was probably trying to pull out of FM tour. probably Mick and management both. and set it all up in motion to do whatever she wanted by Musicares, so that they can all have their big cashgrab tour.

except Lindsey didn't go down quietly like they hoped for. he sued them and didn't mind telling the world what they did. and now Brett added in a few missing pieces.

Oh...yes, exactly. In that case he was clearly changing his tune to keep people happy and then they shat all over him.

It was completely idiotic at that point, I agree. My point was, from day 1 it wasn't "Christine and I are going make a duo album". It evolved and stories changed, exactly how you stated it.

[elle]

The band lied for Stevie and Mick and just to be able to promote the tour that they had already signed off on. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that their management (Irvin Azoff) played a HUGE part in the lies and convincing them it could work without Lindsey and the financial trouble they would be in if they cancelled the tour, but at this point they were in too deep.

yes. management was definitely in on all this early. remember when the news first broke, there was that info about management going to 7 (i think, cant remember the exact number) different promoters to ask which tour would make more money - FM without Stevie or without Lindsey - and 6 out of 7 said without Lindsey. (btw whoever said without Stevie should not be in that business lol). so while Mick is a weasel, this may have been Stevie-management arrangement before he was even asked. but, he and the rest of the band should have said NO.

[BigAl84]

40 years later, more relevant than ever

<a href="https://ibb.co/fxS677x"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/x7s9QQ7/16618-FE7-BAFE-4-E4-B-B7-BC-C5646-BD1-D949.jpg" alt="16618-FE7-BAFE-4-E4-B-B7-BC-C5646-BD1-D949" border="0" /></a>

[jbrownsjr]

$he becomes more and more of a lying piece of garbage as times go on. More and more truth comes out and exposes what $he did. BuckVie was certainly the final straw for the jealous, petty, dishonest, egomaniac.

[John Run]

Sorry Al - I could have been more clear. I only intended to state that once the promotional run started for Buckingham McVie, both Lindsey and Christine consistently stated that it was intended to be a duo album (Lindsey would hint at maybe some early thought was given to it being a Mac project)

As I also wrote, it was all an attempt to let Buckingham McVie be seen as its own project and of course protect Stevie and the brand name.

But this is all a Red Herring to distract away from the crux of the discussion, which is Brett confirmed most all that we have known.

The band's story has evolved since the dissolution of the five occurred. Lindsey's story has remained consistent within that same timeframe.

And despite all that happened during the last 2 and one half years, Lindsey's heart seems very open to being one with Fleetwood Mac again.

[BigAl84]

No need to apologize, John. It's all good.

[bombaysaffires]

We still don’t have an answer to what “that” is. What was “that” issue?

The only question that got answered is who the first singer was, and it sounds like Neil was the first choice from the outset.

“There were some key things”

Like what?

“There had been some meetings that didn’t go well and people would walk out. There was some pretty upset people at other people. A lot of this was coming from Stevie and Lindsey’s differences about how they viewed this next tour.”

What were those differences???

“But there were a couple of bad exchanges in meetings and other things that lead to some high drama with Stevie.”

What was the nature of those bad exchanges? What were the other things?

“After the Pretenders tour and the success of that, she had gotten to a place where she wasn’t going to bend on things. She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band.”

What things? What’s “it?”

“It was really between Lindsey wanting time for a little short run of his solo work and then get back to the Mac.”

So, he wanted a delay from what they were planning? Isn’t that basically what the band said? I guess I’m not seeing the lie. Maybe an exaggeration on time on Stevie’s part, but that’s hardly new for her.



The accounts line up surprisingly well.

The key things, "it" all seem references to the tour. Perhaps about who got what percentage, how many dates, how many days between dates (Stevie likely wanted more money, and we know she likes to have more days off between dates. Even Chrissie Hynde commented on that, and that for her it made the tour long and boring, so much so that she and the Pretenders booked their own gigs in between Stevie shows.....exactly what LB proposed for the FM tour). Clearly once Chris returned Stevie had the justification to not want to be on a plane with LB and have a "girls" plane (w/out Chris she'd be the only band member with their own plane and would highlight her narcissism). Also "it" and the "issues" leading to "exchanges" in meetings seem likely to have included LB's want to push the tour back 3-4 months and/or his alternate request to be able to do small solo shows between Mac shows. We know that Stevie countered with a condition that if that were to happen she wanted x number of days between a FM show and one of his solo shows so they didn't come too close together. This of course would lengthen the overall tour.... I mean, really, it's not that hard to take some educated guesses as to what topics would have made tour meetings unpleasant. And if Stevie and her management felt she had leverage post-Pretenders tour who knows what else she asked for that for professional and personal reasons LB would push back against. I mean, how much clearer does Brett have to be when he says that it was differences between SN and LB about the tour??

There is a HUGE difference between "One of the band members didn't want to tour" and someone asking "Can we push the start date back 12 weeks" or "I want to do small solo shows between FM shows". The band pretty much (and I think she or Mick may have used the actual word) said he "refused" to tour. He clearly was NOT "refusing" to tour, he was NEGOTIATING the schedule.

The only specific detail that's not been publicly disclosed is what his beef was about the house music at MusicCares and who he snapped at. It's been rumored that he didn't like that they used a SN song and that he snapped at Karen. Not so hard to imagine. But like Brett said, did it warrant firing??? Really??

As for the smirking, I still think that's bs. No one has shown any evidence of it; and if you read the verbiage carefully what has been said all around is that Stevie "thought" he had smirked.

What I want to know is what was the tension from Mick and Stevie BEFORE the Musicares performance? Had she given him the ultimatum then? I would think she'd put that ultimatum to him earlier, during tour negotiations. As others have pointed out, the band had already been feeling out promoters about a tour without one or the other.

[bwboy]

[QUOTE=John Run;1261008]I will say this next part with as much cushion and care as possible, as I don't want to offend. In 25 years of similar work, no one settles an 8 figure lawsuit in 3 mdonths because they want to be done with someone, it is unheard of. It was most likely settled because the defendants likely exposure to damages upon discovery and entrance into public record are far greater than the settlement

I think FM wanted to settle the lawsuit as quickly as possible to avoid prolonging it while they were on the road, so that every concert review didn't mention the pending lawsuit, for example. You're right, it was smart to settle- they fired him, despite having signed contracts to tour, so just give him the money and everyone signs a NDA and presto, the lawsuit is over. Lindsey got his money AND still got to tour solo, and FM got to tour without Lindsey. Everybody won, in the financial sense, and that was what I meant in my earlier post. Whether the settlement was $10 million or $14 million, the band was apparently more than willing to pay it in order to end the lawsuit. It's not like the money came out of their pockets, anyway. Maybe they each made $2 million dollars less from the tour than they would have, but with as much money as they all have, I doubt they had to pinch too many pennies.

[soul_drifter333]

Just so you know that is partially incorrect. The initial press for quite a while was "we've started making new music and we hope stevie will join us" It wasn't until the album had an announced release date that Lindsey and Christine GRACIOUSLY changed their tune and said it had always been a duo album. They were trying to be kind to Stevie. Why, I dont know.

There was several months of press and interviews that stated it was hopefully, a fleetwood mac album in the works.

It's quite possible that Lindsey never did consider it a FM album. For years before the Buck/McVie project the group had been trying to persuade Stevie to record with them. In the end she recorded one song for the ep and I don't think that she even performed harmonies on the other tracks. She even said that she spent the day with Lindsey and his family and enjoyed working on the song. I do think that management, the record label, Mick, and fans had high hopes that it would be a FM record but that doesn't mean that Lindsey had a strong feeling that she was not going to participate. He even already had a good bit on the recording done waiting to see what happened. But, yes they minimized the project so not anger Stevie. I can see Mick being persistent that it not be called FM so they could keep the endless greatest hits gravy train a-rolling.

Could you imagine if they had to work in that stinker of a song Show Me The Way into the album without any editing?

[michelej1]

YEARS of belittling and minimizing Stevie. go back to kicking her onstage in Australia!! She's supposed to forget that?

Except no one can quite agree that he kicked her on stage, not even Stevie.

[soul_drifter333]

$he becomes more and more of a lying piece of garbage as times go on. More and more truth comes out and exposes what $he did. BuckVie was certainly the final straw for the jealous, petty, dishonest, egomaniac.

Especially after she was called out for the so called get well letter she personally sent to Lindsey that never got sent. You can see how she is struggling to keep the story straight. Again, I don't think she expected so many people to be interested in whether she wished him well or not. Sometimes, OK many times, she would better to keep her mouth shut but then she has a project to promote so...

[SteveMacD]

It does show that Fleetwood Mac used semantics to frame their truth which had some significant factual omissions
Of course there were omissions. I’m sure legal was all over what they could and could not say. Except for Stevie botching the time frame, what they actually said wasn’t a lie.

(Not anticipating they would have to pay him north of $10 million for not playing with them)
LOL, you don’t think Irving didn’t realize they’d get sued? Fleetwood Mac isn’t the first band to fire a longstanding member. Hell, they’re not even the first band he manages that fired a longstanding member. They ALWAYS involve lawsuits. If you know you’re getting sued, you don’t show all your cards in interviews.

Lindsey is a different person than he was in 1987 that is for sure. He has mellowed and become sentimental for the art and people that shaped him.
I think once the catharsis of leaving the band wore off and OOTC flopped, he realized he needed them.

The driving factor to come back is not the money
Yeah, it’s the glory. Playing GYOW in front of 20,000 people in an arena is a way bigger rush than 1500 in a theater.

(Hell if you believe Celebrity Net Worth, Lindsey is the wealthiest member of Fleetwood Mac. CNW is not a demonstrably accurate source, but it gives you an idea that his financial situation is quite stable)
Yeah, they said a friend of mine was a multimillionaire. He’s absolutely not.

There are the same 2 or 3 posters who repeatedly twist themselves into physically and mentally impossible contortions to defend Stevie's role in this process or to maintain their anti-Buckingham positions, and it is futile to respond. Again, it is the same 2 or 3 people and some once respected posters are now nothing more than shadow puppets who enjoy seeing people react to their written gymnastics.
Or, maybe we take things said in interviews at the time into the equation instead of relying solely on a lawsuit. Wouldn’t want to have “significant factual omissions” now, would we?

Between that interview Mick did in 2017 where he talked about he and Stevie were planning on doing deep cuts and Lindsey’s comments on the Classic shows, I suspected trouble was possibly on the horizon, but what do I know?

Brett specifically notes that John McVie didn't want the change.
That’s assuming you have the right “it that he was referencing. “She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band. It wasn’t John McVie.” I read that as being about doing the songs from the other eras of the band and not relying on prerecords (her 24KG model, but with Fleetwood Mac).

Mick has great survival instincts. He sees the trend.
Mick also said that the band is more functional because of the changes they made. Now, maybe he’s open to working with Lindsey again outside of Fleetwood Mac, like he recently did with Rick Vito and Bekka Bramlett.

[michelej1]

Eh, Lindsey has a smirky face. He’s a smirker. Or he was thinking smirky things. I suspect him of smirking. But he wasn’t dancing like the other two.

Stevie always said Lindsey had more money than the rest of them, as a producer. Probably another reason she hates him.

[jmn3]

ah ah ah, Don't forget Soldier's Angel. When shippers had them getting married because he guested on that song. :p

Hey I had that one in there!! :D

[jbrownsjr]

Hey I had that one in there!! :D

oooppppssss. :wavey:

[michelej1]

I remember going to a Lindsey show, not sure where but I think Orange county. His 2 kids came onstage and he asked Kristin where Stella was and she said Stella was asleep and Brett went back stage and he brought Stella out. I guess he woke her up. She was about 3. So cute.

[BigAl84]

Eh, Lindsey has a smirky face. He’s a smirker. Or he was thinking smirky things. I suspect him of smirking. But he wasn’t dancing like the other two.

Stevie always said Lindsey had more money than the rest of them, as a producer. Probably another reason she hates him.

Lindsey also didn't have to put half his fortunes up his nose and subsequently reahab. So there's that lol.

[SteveMacD]

If you go back and watch the ugly interview they first did on CBS This Morning, Mick said that Lindsey refused to sign the contract, so someone is lying and we now know that it was Mick...I wouldn't be surprised to hear that their management (Irvin Azoff) played a HUGE part in the lies and convincing them it could work without Lindsey and the financial trouble they would be in if they cancelled the tour, but at this point they were in too deep.

Part of my theory all along has been Azoff was a part of the decision from the outset. I think the decision to fire Lindsey was made during that contentious November meeting. I don’t think Azoff gave Stevie’s manager Lindsey’s request to do solo shows on the off days because they had already made their decision. I think the whole MusiCares story is crap. At most, it only reinforced their decision.

[SteveMacD]

And even so, given that SHE DELAYED A FLEETWOOD MAC TOUR HERSELF IN 2012 FOR HER SOLO WORK, the hypocrisy is as thick as mud. Why is it okay for Stevie to delay a tour and not Lindsey? Where is that question thrown back at her? What would her answer be?
Barbara Nicks died on December 28, 2011. Can anyone blame her for not being ready to jump back into the drama that is Fleetwood Mac that soon after her mother died? Mick’s Playboy interview was just 80 days later.

[wilsonmac]

yes, and in one of the interviews the other day, Stevie said she made 24k gold because "Fleetwood Mac was on hiatus" so she had nothing better to do with her time. meanwhile, the other 4 were recording in the studio, and begging her to come to the studio with them, and Mick was giving interviews saying how he was hoping that her stint will be short and she will rejoin them in the studio.

but everyone here was conveniently citing some imaginary "contractual obligation" that she supposedly had to fill.

it's nice to see truth coming out these days.

and people still not acknowledging it is also interesting to see. not surprising.

Agreed. In my opinion, all of what we are witnessing now was due to the making of Buck McVie. Her refusal to commit rightfully angered Lindsey and the rest of the band members and led to what we are witnessing today. I think Stevie refused because she had zero material to contribute. Alot try to make the excuse that she didn't want to work with Lindsey. I don't buy that.

[BombaySapphire3]

Her refusal to commit rightfully angered Lindsey and the rest of the band members and led to what we are witnessing today. I think Stevie refused because she had zero material to contribute.

Nor will she ever.. The girl who wrote all those incredible songs is gone now replaced by a bitter old harridan .Her "new" song is unlistenable.

[jmn3]

Barbara Nicks died on December 28, 2011. Can anyone blame her for not being ready to jump back into the drama that is Fleetwood Mac that soon after her mother died? Mick’s Playboy interview was just 80 days later.

It's not like she was in a period of mourning and not working at all during 2012 sir. But yes it's SOOOOOO much drama with Fleetwood Mac. She is the drama.

[wilsonmac]

Nor will she ever.. The girl who wrote all those incredible songs is gone now replaced by a bitter old harridan .Her "new" song is unlistenable.

Honestly, it's just very sad. And you're right... her "new" material that took the work of Greg Kurstin (who is a great engineer and producer who did a cool mix at Abbey Road for McCartney on Egypt Station) to turn it into a product she could market, is not very good. Kind of a sick political grab that just feels wrong.

I may be in the minority of people on this board, but I just feel sorry for her.

[BigAl84]

Barbara Nicks died on December 28, 2011. Can anyone blame her for not being ready to jump back into the drama that is Fleetwood Mac that soon after her mother died? Mick’s Playboy interview was just 80 days later.

I don’t know...John McVie got a cancer diagnosis in the middle of a tour and they were ready to give his a$$ the boot. Lindsey has a heart attack and nobody gives a sh*t.

[BigAl84]

Of course there were omissions. I’m sure legal was all over what they could and could not say. Except for Stevie botching the time frame, what they actually said wasn’t a lie.


LOL, you don’t think Irving didn’t realize they’d get sued? Fleetwood Mac isn’t the first band to fire a longstanding member. Hell, they’re not even the first band he manages that fired a longstanding member. They ALWAYS involve lawsuits. If you know you’re getting sued, you don’t show all your cards in interviews.


I think once the catharsis of leaving the band wore off and OOTC flopped, he realized he needed them.


Yeah, it’s the glory. Playing GYOW in front of 20,000 people in an arena is a way bigger rush than 1500 in a theater.


Yeah, they said a friend of mine was a multimillionaire. He’s absolutely not.


Or, maybe we take things said in interviews at the time into the equation instead of relying solely on a lawsuit. Wouldn’t want to have “significant factual omissions” now, would we?

Between that interview Mick did in 2017 where he talked about he and Stevie were planning on doing deep cuts and Lindsey’s comments on the Classic shows, I suspected trouble was possibly on the horizon, but what do I know?


That’s assuming you have the right “it that he was referencing. “She wanted it to be her way more than the rest of the people did in the band. It wasn’t John McVie.” I read that as being about doing the songs from the other eras of the band and not relying on prerecords (her 24KG model, but with Fleetwood Mac).


Mick also said that the band is more functional because of the changes they made. Now, maybe he’s open to working with Lindsey again outside of Fleetwood Mac, like he recently did with Rick Vito and Bekka Bramlett.

More functional? Are you for real? You’re aware that Stevie has spent the past week lamenting that She hasn’t heard from any of them and she hasn’t called them either? They’re dead in the water at the moment.

Lol are you really still clutching your pearls for this new invigorated Fleetwood Mac they tried to sell two years ago?

And we’re still trying to convince ourselves that Stevie was a holding the torch for pre-75 material? That’s hilarious. That whole entire narrative was created to justify filling in the gaping whole with Lindsey out of the mix. Half of that material they still axed out of the set list before the midway point of the tour..

It’s funny that nearly two years later and all of the info that’s come forward, you’re still repeating the same stuff you said in the initial weeks leading up to the tour.

[aleuzzi]

Brett’s interview is a delight from start to finish—and not just the FM stuff. His well-worded honesty underscores what Lindsey said of him by way of stage introduction for the ANTHOLOGY tour: “Brett knows where the bodies are buried.”

Even if Lindsey goes back to FM, Brett has sealed his fate. He testified. The guilty parties (Mick and Stevie) will never forgive him.

[SteveMacD]

More functional? Are you for real? You’re aware that Stevie has spent the past week lamenting that She hasn’t heard from any of them and she hasn’t called them either? They’re dead in the water at the moment.
“All I can say is really openly is that Lindsey Buckingham and the work he has done with the band is never going to go away and we have a functioning band with the changes that we made. You know time heals and it was lovely to be able to talk with him.”

And we’re still trying to convince ourselves that Stevie was a holding the torch for pre-75 material? That’s hilarious. That whole entire narrative was created to justify filling in the gaping whole with Lindsey out of the mix. Half of that material they still axed out of the set list before the midway point of the tour..
AUGUST 28, 2017
—
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/the-last-word-mick-fleetwood-on-fleetwood-macs-dirty-laundry-bands-future-110414/

Are you thinking at all about the set list yet? Will it be very different than the last tour?


Yeah. I was in Italy recently and met Stevie out there. Actually, she was in Capri and I was close to there. She said to me, “Let’s sit down and really listen to some stuff that sort of almost got forgotten.” So I know she’s already thinking she wants to do some things we haven’t done in years. I always think that Stevie and Lindsey should do a Buckingham Nicks song in the set. And have Christine should do a blues song.
—
Last I checked, Buckingham Nicks and Christine’s blues days were pre-1975.

[sue]

Agreed. In my opinion, all of what we are witnessing now was due to the making of Buck McVie. Her refusal to commit rightfully angered Lindsey and the rest of the band members and led to what we are witnessing today. I think Stevie refused because she had zero material to contribute. Alot try to make the excuse that she didn't want to work with Lindsey. I don't buy that.

I totally agree with your last statement....Stevie couldn’t go record a new album ..she had no new material....(she hadn’t had her Kennedy dream yet).
She could not contribute new work.
Why then didn’t they take some of the old demos she had....3 songs was all she had to put forward..
I’ll never comprehend that, never.

[bombaysaffires]

I totally agree with your last statement....Stevie couldn’t go record a new album ..she had no new material....(she hadn’t had her Kennedy dream yet).
She could not contribute new work.
Why then didn’t they take some of the old demos she had....3 songs was all she had to put forward..
I’ll never comprehend that, never.

she actually had her Kennedy dream quite some time ago. It's been sitting there waiting for it's right moment, sorta like Lady from the Mountain. (I'm not saying they were written at the same time, I'm just saying that LFTM sat around until she saw Twilight and the time was right)

[SteveMacD]

It's not like she was in a period of mourning and not working at all during 2012 sir.
You don’t know what was going through her head. There’s a difference between working solo and with Fleetwood Mac.

I don’t know...John McVie got a cancer diagnosis in the middle of a tour and they were ready to give his a$$ the boot. Lindsey has a heart attack and nobody gives a sh*t.
The question was “What would her answer be?“ You don’t think she wouldn’t use the death of her mother as her reason for not touring with Fleetwood Mac in 2012?

[UnwindedDreams]

2012 IYD Tour was done because she felt IYD needed another year of promotion. Stevie's said so for a long time, even in the press room for RRHOF.
She did find time in 2012 to go to Lindsey's house to record EP songs.

Brett was on tour too.

[SteveMacD]

2012 IYD Tour was done because she felt IYD needed another year of promotion. Stevie's said so for a long time, even in the press room for RRHOF.
I remember, and even Lindsey said that there was no judgment against her for wanting to. But, if the question was what’s the difference between Stevie promoting an album in 2012 and Lindsey promoting an album in 2018, she could say that and a lot of people would sympathize with that.

She did find time in 2012 to go to Lindsey's house to record EP songs.
Yes. At the end of the year.

[BigAl84]

“All I can say is really openly is that Lindsey Buckingham and the work he has done with the band is never going to go away and we have a functioning band with the changes that we made. You know time heals and it was lovely to be able to talk with him.”


AUGUST 28, 2017
—
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/the-last-word-mick-fleetwood-on-fleetwood-macs-dirty-laundry-bands-future-110414/

Are you thinking at all about the set list yet? Will it be very different than the last tour?


Yeah. I was in Italy recently and met Stevie out there. Actually, she was in Capri and I was close to there. She said to me, “Let’s sit down and really listen to some stuff that sort of almost got forgotten.” So I know she’s already thinking she wants to do some things we haven’t done in years. I always think that Stevie and Lindsey should do a Buckingham Nicks song in the set. And have Christine should do a blues song.
—
Last I checked, Buckingham Nicks and Christine’s blues days were pre-1975.

I LOVE how you somehow can still quote bullish*t quotes from mick or Stevie as if it’s actual fact, as if you take it as complete truth.

Doing things we haven’t done in years does not automatically equate to pre-75 fm material. She could of been referring to Crystal or Blue Letter or When I See You Again. Clearly that quote illustrates Christine wanted to do some older blues stuff but to try and say it was Stevie? Gimme a break .

You’re about the last person on this forum to even remotely take a single thing mick says with a grain of salt. Functioning band? Stevie just said nobody has talked to her in months.

[jmn3]

I LOVE how you somehow can still quote bullish*t quotes from mick or Stevie as if it’s actual fact, as if you take it as complete truth.

Doing things we haven’t done in years does not automatically equate to pre-75 fm material. She could of been referring to Crystal or Blue Letter or When I See You Again. Clearly that quote illustrates Christine wanted to do some older blues stuff but to try and say it was Stevie? Gimme a break dude.

Stevie has longed for years to cover Peter and do Black Magic Woman. She was like I totally need to bastardize someone else in this bands lyrics now that Chris is back to singing Dont Stop. Mean jerk Lindsey wouldn’t let her do BMW. Oh wait, she didn’t even realize it was a Fleetwood Mac song.

[BigAl84]

Other “truths” from mick fleetwood:

Let’s do the double album...oh wait, never mind Lindsey.

Say You Will is one of the best things we’ve ever done...until he publicly said it “probably wasn’t our finest work” while hawking effing wine bottles at Costco.

It’s safe to say this is the quintessential lineup of the band.....wait three years and it became “our lineups have always changed, this is business as usual”

We don’t like to use the term fired....because in fact he was fired.

To TMZ reporters: is it true there was an ultimatum given by Stevie? “No”

[BigAl84]

Stevie has longed for years to cover Peter and do Black Magic Woman. She was like I totally need to bastardize someone else in this bands lyrics now that Chris is back to singing Dont Stop. Mean jerk Lindsey wouldn’t let her do BMW. Oh wait, she didn’t even realize it was a Fleetwood Mac song.

EXACTLY, she openly admitted that she only recalled the Santana cover.

Sure, she’s carrying the torch for a blues leaning FM set. Riiiight. Hilarious.

[UnwindedDreams]

But, if the question was whatÂ’s the difference between Stevie promoting an album in 2012 and Lindsey promoting an album in 2018, she could say that and a lot of people would sympathize with that.


Whatever.
I guess it was really her band during the Lindsey years because her albums charted at #6 and #7 and she can get a concert audience over 10,000. Hence, she gave the final nod of the head on touring timing and schedules.

If we're not talking about an answer for Stevie to give to a journalist, it really wasn't just for Mick & Stevie to deny Lindsey the opportunity to tour before or during a 2018 Mac tour. Besides, it was a jukebox Mac tour in 2018/19; no new music and still warhorse heavy. They only did 6 backwall FM songs throughout the entire tour and they didn't last that long in the set either. Stevie was on 3 of those 6 songs, and BMW had hardly any singing. But lovely ah,ah,ah,ahs!

Just because Lindsey didn't have top ten albums or concerts at the Chevrolet Centre doesn't mean his career was a failure. People show up at his concerts. Doesn't matter if it's 900 people. If people enjoy the music and connect with the music, it's wonderful.
Neale said to me in 2011 that he told Lindsey "The people that come to see you, are there to see you. They're not there for a night out." Stevie didn't write a song attached to a movie that is extremely well known; Lindsey did. It's got a great tune to hum to. Neale also said Lindsey doesn't like performing the song.

[UnwindedDreams]

Functioning band? Stevie just said nobody has talked to her in months.Functioning = they can read a setlist, perform songs that 2 of the guys had no hand in writing, make the songs sound like the recorded version, indulge Stevie for an instrumental clash so she can "dance" as the Gold Dust Woman, then call it a night!

[BigAl84]

Functioning = they can read a setlist, perform songs that 2 of the guys had no hand in writing, make the songs sound like the recorded version, indulge Stevie for an instrumental clash so she can "dance" as the Gold Dust Woman, then call it a night!

HAHAHAHA the whole thing is such bunk, especially the “set lists have been the same for 20 years because of Lindsey - now we can finally do station man!” Argument that people try to float.

[BigAl84]

Functioning = they can read a setlist, perform songs that 2 of the guys had no hand in writing, make the songs sound like the recorded version, indulge Stevie for an instrumental clash so she can "dance" as the Gold Dust Woman, then call it a night!

Lol you’re right, I was giving mick too much credit. They have enough warm bodies on stage to cover some songs. That’s all he really meant.

[SteveMacD]

I LOVE how you somehow can still quote bullish*t quotes from mick or Stevie as if it’s actual fact, as if you take it as complete truth.
I think it’s hilarious that anyone is still debating what Mick was talking about to Rolling Stone in August, 2017. It was obvious to me he meant, pre-1975 material, and low and behold, they played Black Magic Woman, Tell Me All The Things You Do, Oh Well, Hypnotized, and, later, Man Of The World. And, they even did later songs like All Over Again and Isn’t It Midnight. Mick said that’s what they were going to do in August, 2017 and that’s exactly what they did. Where’s the bull****?

Doing things we haven’t done in years does not automatically equate to pre-75 fm material.
But the fact he mentioned Buckingham Nicks and Christine playing blues was a pretty good clue. It turns out that’s exactly what he meant. They actually did that.

She could of been referring to Crystal or Blue Letter or When I See You Again. Clearly that quote illustrates Christine wanted to do some older blues stuff but to try and say it was Stevie? Gimme a break.
The only actual blues song in the set was Black Magic Woman, which Stevie sang.

Funny how Fleetwood Mac is simultaneously blasted around here as being nothing more than a glorified backup band for Stevie, that Fleetwood Mac is now just the Stevie show, yet nobody wants to believe that Stevie was also responsible for the early and later era songs in the setlist. Nevermind the fact that the formula Fleetwood Mac used in 2018-19 was the same formula Stevie used in 2017.

[BigAl84]

Dude I’m done arguing about this.
Right...having Lindsey and a large chunk of his material now out of the band and set list HAD NOTHING to do with their sudden love fest of pre-75 material which half of it was cut out and replaced anyways.

This is big news, you must be the first ledgie to have access to tour rehearsals since you’re so definite in this being due to Stevie Nicks.

My guess is, her biggest contribution to the set list was the addition of gypsy and the Tom petty tribute. Again, she didn’t even know Black Magic Woman was a Fleetwood Mac song...but sure, she’s carrying that pre-75 torch LOLOLOL

[SteveMacD]

Functioning = they can read a setlist, perform songs that 2 of the guys had no hand in writing, make the songs sound like the recorded version, indulge Stevie for an instrumental clash so she can "dance" as the Gold Dust Woman, then call it a night!
And record a new song...

[UnwindedDreams]

And, they even did later songs like All Over Again and Isn’t It Midnight.


Funny how Fleetwood Mac is simultaneously blasted around here as being nothing more than a glorified backup band for Stevie, that Fleetwood Mac is now just the Stevie show, yet nobody wants to believe that Stevie was also responsible for the early and later era songs in the setlist.

In 2014/15, they did Little Lies, Over My Head, Think About Me, Seven Wonders, and Bleed to Love Her - those are gems. Those Chris songs hadn't been played in forever just like Isn't it Midnight.

Stevie is responsible for Midnight, All Over Again, and Hold Me being played in 2019/19? Was Chris not able to choose which songs she wanted to perform?

Stevie brought nothing new from her songbook to the 2018/19 set. Storms was well played in 2009.

[UnwindedDreams]

And record a new song...

That is not a Fleetwood Mac song. Mick and John are not on it. That song is equivalent to "That's What Friends Are For." It's a guest feature; it's Neil's song.

You have no precedent to use for a Neil/Mike FM sound because Fleetwood and Mac aren't on Find Your Way.

You'd need Mick and John with Mike and Neil on a new composition to call it Fleetwood Mac.

Are Soldier's Angel and I Miss You a Fleetwood Mac song?

[SteveMacD]

Dude I’m done arguing about this.
Right...having Lindsey and a large chunk of his material now out of the band and set list HAD NOTHING to do with their sudden love fest of pre-75 material which half of it was cut out and replaced anyways.
Again, it’s exactly what Mick said he and Stevie wanted to do for that tour in August, 2017. It could have worked with the Rumours band, too.

[BigAl84]

And record a new song...

The new Fleetwood Mac Lite never recorded a new song. What are you even referring to?

[BigAl84]

Again, it’s exactly what Mick said he and Stevie wanted to do for that tour in August, 2017. It could have worked with the Rumours band, too.

But it’s actually not. Stevie was vague about doing stuff that had been forgotten or not done in years. There’s tons of stuff from 75 onward that could fall into those categories. Yes, Christine had expressed interest in some of the earlier material. You’re trying to say that quote implies that Christine, mick, and Stevie were all pushing for pre 75 material. That quote in no way clearly states that. It doesn’t specify what Stevie is referring to.

[SteveMacD]

That is not a Fleetwood Mac song. Mick and John are not on it. That song is equivalent to "That's What Friends Are For." It's a guest feature; it's Neil's song.

You have no precedent to use for a Neil/Mike FM sound because Fleetwood and Mac aren't on Find Your Way.

You'd need Mick and John with Mike and Neil on a new composition to call it Fleetwood Mac.

Are Soldier's Angel and I Miss You a Fleetwood Mac song?
Didn’t say that was a Fleetwood Mac song. My point was “functioning band.” Stevie was agreeable to recording with Neil Finn, who was the only one she hadn’t recorded with before. She couldn’t be clearer that it wasn’t happening again with Lindsey after EP.

ETA: I put it in the same almost Mac category as Sentimental Lady, Can’t Help Falling In Love, It Ain’t Over, Roll With Me Henry, Twisted, Jeremy Spencer’s first solo album, and LBCM.

[BombaySapphire3]

The new Fleetwood Mac Lite never recorded a new song. What are you even referring to?

He must mean the charity song "Find Your Way Home' by Neil Finn ..it features Stevie and Christine croaking along . A real stretch to call it Fleetwood Mac though.

[UnwindedDreams]

Didn’t say that was a Fleetwood Mac song. My point was “functioning band.” Stevie was agreeable to recording with Neil Finn, who was the only one she hadn’t recorded with before. She couldn’t be clearer that it wasn’t happening again with Lindsey after EP.
But it's not a band project. So it has nothing to do with "functioning band."
That's Neil solo. You're talking about an extra curricular. Because Stevie went to see "Parasite" and ate at Applebee's with Neil on Saturday night, does that make it a "functioning band?

You put it in your category, but that's not gospel, right?

[SteveMacD]

He must mean the charity song "Find Your Way Home' by Neil Finn ..it features Stevie and Christine croaking along . A real stretch to call it Fleetwood Mac though.
Mike Campbell is on it, too, so it’s 2/3 of the band.

[BigAl84]

Stevie at Applebees..oh darn, please let’s go there.

How many dollar margaritas would it take for Stevie Nicks to write a new song!?

How many dollar margaritas would it take before Stevie Nicks claims she’s responsible for Prince’s entire fist album and they vacationed together in Italy for 20 years.

[SteveMacD]

You put it in your category, but that's not gospel, right?
No. But then nothing around here is gospel. A song with 2/3 of the band is close enough for me.

[SteveMacD]

Stevie at Applebees..oh darn, please let’s go there.

How many dollar margaritas would it take for Stevie Nicks to write a new song!?

How many dollar margaritas would it take before Stevie Nicks claims she’s responsible for Prince’s entire fist album and they vacationed together in Italy for 20 years.
All of them!

[BigAl84]

No. But then nothing around here is gospel. A song with 2/3 of the band is close enough for me.

Well that speaks for itself.

[Storms123]

Stevie has longed for years to cover Peter and do Black Magic Woman. She was like I totally need to bastardize someone else in this bands lyrics now that Chris is back to singing Dont Stop. Mean jerk Lindsey wouldn’t let her do BMW. Oh wait, she didn’t even realize it was a Fleetwood Mac song.

Don't forget, when Lindsey was asked to join and brought her along for the ride, she went out and bought all of FM's albums and listened to them backwards and forwards and forwards and backwards and said "Lindsey, I really think we can add something here" but she just skipped over BMW apparently.

As an aside, SOMEONE must be in the room with her when she does these interviews. If Savannah Guthrie can fact check Donald Trump on the fly, can't Karen or whomever else might in the room with Stevie and is vying for a spot in the will when she goes, quietly tap her on the shoulder and say "reign it in Pinocchio, you sound crazier than usual?"

[UnwindedDreams]

No. But then nothing around here is gospel. A song with 2/3 of the band is close enough for me.

Perhaps you don't value or honor Mick and John. To consider Find Your Way "close to Mac" is disrespectful to those men because you have no previous recording of a new song with Stevie, Chris, Mike, Neil, Mick and John to base it off of. You have YouTube videos of the lineup doing songs that Mike and Neil did write or participate in the original recording.

[BigAl84]

How many dollar margaritas before Stevie claims being an actual member of the heartbreakers for 5 months in 1983...

LMAO

[BigAl84]

Perhaps you don't value or honor Mick and John. To consider Find Your Way "close to Mac" is disrespectful because you have no previous recording of a new song with Stevie, Chris, Mike, Neil, Mick and John to base it off of. You have YouTube videos of the lineup doing songs that Mike and Neil did write or participate in the original recording.

I mean to be fair Mick has no shame, he entertained replacing both John and Christine at different points in time. It’s not like they value one another AT ALL

[SteveMacD]

Don't forget, when Lindsey was asked to join and brought her along for the ride, she went out and bought all of FM's albums and listened to them backwards and forwards and forwards and backwards and said "Lindsey, I really think we can add something here" but she just skipped over BMW apparently.

As an aside, SOMEONE must be in the room with her when she does these interviews. If Savannah Guthrie can fact check Donald Trump on the fly, can't Karen or whomever else might in the room with Stevie and is vying for a spot in the will when she goes, quietly tap her on the shoulder and say "reign it in Pinocchio, you sound crazier than usual?"
Please, people enjoy full use of their limbs.

[SteveMacD]

Perhaps you don't value or honor Mick and John. To consider Find Your Way "close to Mac" is disrespectful to those men because you have no previous recording of a new song with Stevie, Chris, Mike, Neil, Mick and John to base it off of. You have YouTube videos of the lineup doing songs that Mike and Neil did write or participate in the original recording.
This could turn into a huge philosophical discussion as to what constitutes Fleetwood Mac and what does not.

Like, is “Hypnotized” from Live At The Roxy Fleetwood Mac? Mick and John play on it, Christine is singing backing vocals, and those four were a lineup of Fleetwood Mac.

What about Jeremy’s solo album where he was backed by Mick, John, and Danny and had a cameo from Peter?

What about Christine’s version of “When You Say” with John and Danny?

And, do Mick and John need to be on it to be Fleetwood Mac? Aren’t some of Lindsey’s songs on Tusk and TITN just Lindsey? What about Landslide (which was recorded when they were still Buckingham Nicks), Songbird, The World Keep On Turning? Are Revelation and Keep On Going, which feature Bob Welch on bass, Fleetwood Mac?

[BigAl84]

This could turn into a huge philosophical discussion as to what constitutes Fleetwood Mac and what does not.

Like, is “Hypnotized” from Live At The Roxy Fleetwood Mac? Mick and John play on it, Christine is singing backing vocals, and those four were a lineup of Fleetwood Mac.

What about Jeremy’s solo album where he was backed by Mick, John, and Danny and had a cameo from Peter?

What about Christine’s version of “When You Say” with John and Danny?

And, do Mick and John need to be on it to be Fleetwood Mac? Aren’t some of Lindsey’s songs on Tusk and TITN just Lindsey? What about Landslide (which was recorded when they were still Buckingham Nicks), Songbird, The World Keep On Turning? Are Revelation and Keep On Going, which feature Bob Welch on bass, Fleetwood Mac?

Does this mean John’s solo album from the early 90s is actually a Fleetwood Mac album?

[UnwindedDreams]

This could turn into a huge philosophical discussion as to what constitutes Fleetwood Mac and what does not.

Like, is “Hypnotized” from Live At The Roxy Fleetwood Mac? Mick and John play on it, Christine is singing backing vocals, and those four were a lineup of Fleetwood Mac.

What about Jeremy’s solo album where he was backed by Mick, John, and Danny and had a cameo from Peter?

What about Christine’s version of “When You Say” with John and Danny?

And, do Mick and John need to be on it to be Fleetwood Mac? Aren’t some of Lindsey’s songs on Tusk and TITN just Lindsey? What about Landslide (which was recorded when they were still Buckingham Nicks), Songbird, The World Keep On Turning? Are Revelation and Keep On Going, which feature Bob Welch on bass, Fleetwood Mac?
So your opinion, is that Find Your Way Home is the Fleetwood Mac sound?
Did Mick, John, and Green create the FM sound?

You just replied to me that a "functioning band" recorded a song. Did a "functioning" Fleetwood Mac record Find Your Way? Or do you want to withdraw the statement you made?

[SteveMacD]

So your opinion, is that Find Your Way Home is the Fleetwood Mac sound?
I didn’t say or imply that it sounded like Fleetwood Mac, I pointed it out as an example of how Fleetwood Mac is more “functioning” since the change. Stevie can work with Neil in a way she couldn’t with Lindsey anymore. And, since 2/3 of the current lineup is on it, I specifically put it in an almost Mac category. If Mick and John and Christine on keyboards were added, it would absolutely be Fleetwood Mac. Honestly, it reminds me like something from SYW.

Did Mick, John, and Green create the FM sound?
Definitely one era of the band’s sound. And, “Stop Messin’ Round” was the really the first moment the world heard what would become the defining quality of the band’s sound, namely the Fleetwood McVie Perfect groove.

You just replied to me that a "functioning band" recorded a song. Did a "functioning" Fleetwood Mac record Find Your Way? Or do you want to withdraw the statement you made?
No.

[UnwindedDreams]

I didn’t say or imply that it sounded like Fleetwood Mac, I pointed it out as an example of how Fleetwood Mac is more “functioning” since the change. Stevie can work with Neil in a way she couldn’t with Lindsey anymore. And, since 2/3 of the current lineup is on it, I specifically put it in an almost Mac category. If Mick and John and Christine on keyboards were added, it would absolutely be Fleetwood Mac. Honestly, it reminds me like something from SYW. You wrote that the new FM recorded a new song in replying to me. That's not true.
How can we be sure she can work in a way she couldn't with Lindsey? It's one song. She likely wasn't in the same room as Neil. She didn't have to write the song. The song was donated for charity. She didn't do an EP with Neil. To me, this was like a courtesy to do for a new co-worker.


Definitely one era of the band’s sound. And, “Stop Messin’ Round” was the really the first moment the world heard what would become the defining quality of the band’s sound, namely the Fleetwood McVie Perfect groove.
Using reason, one would decide that this new FM's sound would have to be heard in a new song with all 6 members on it. "Find Your Way" is not the advent of the new FM sound.

[SteveMacD]

You wrote that the new FM recorded a new song in replying to me. That's not true.
Most of the band did, all of the current frontline. It was an example of the band being more functional than it had become by 2015.

How can we be sure she can work in a way she couldn't with Lindsey? It's one song. She likely wasn't in the same room as Neil. She didn't have to write the song. The song was donated for charity. She didn't do an EP with Neil. To me, this was like a courtesy to do for a new co-worker.
How can we be sure she can work in a way she couldn't with Lindsey? The simple fact she was able to do something as a courtesy. She wouldn’t have considered it with Lindsey.

Using reason, one would decide that this new FM's sound would have to be heard in a new song with all 6 members on it. "Find Your Way" is not the advent of the new FM sound.
Again, I didn’t hold it up as an example of the new Fleetwood Mac sound.

[UnwindedDreams]

How can we be sure she can work in a way she couldn't with Lindsey? The simple fact she was able to do something as a courtesy. She wouldn’t have considered it with Lindsey.


You're leaving out that it was to shelter the homeless in NZ. Don't you think it would've been evil not to email Neil her vocals?

From 2014 on, she sang a song for Don's cd, for Charles Kelley, for Lana Del Ray, and Leann Rimes.

[elle]

I LOVE how you somehow can still quote bullish*t quotes from mick or Stevie as if it’s actual fact, as if you take it as complete truth.

right. both Stevie and Mick have no problem lying, or if we are nice, forgetting the facts in their drug-eaten brains.... or changing their minds.

in 2011 Stevie was saying she had a great time with Lindsey helping her on SOldier's Angel.

in 2012 she was saying she can never ever be in the studio with Lindsey again.

in 2013 she was saying how amazing time she had being with Lindsey in his home studio and eating dinner with his family.

in 2014 she was saying she can never be in the studio again with Lindsey.

in 2018 she was saying she just wants no more drama and wants to spend the rest of her days dancing happily around her house.

in 2020? she is saying she had enough of being in her house. and that she cannot live without the drama, that she needs drama in her life to breath and to be inspired. :)

but sure, she doesn't want to be in Fleetwood Mac because - too much drama? :laugh:

yet some wonder who is the drama queen. ;)

[SteveMacD]

You're leaving out that it was to shelter the homeless in NZ. Don't you think it would've been evil not to email Neil her vocals?

From 2014 on, she sang a song for Don's cd, for Charles Kelley, for Lana Del Ray, and Leann Rimes.
Do you think she wouldn’t have ignored Lindsey regardless?

“Tell him to get Nora Jones again.”

[UnwindedDreams]

Do you think she wouldn’t have ignored Lindsey regardless?

“Tell him to get Nora Jones again.”
I'm not familiar with that quote. Nora is spelled Norah though.

I think she would've responded to Lindsey if he asked after the European Leg in 2015.

I think you're making a big thing out of her doing Find Your Way as a supplement for your conviction that Lindsey should've been fired. Stevie had nothing better to do in quarantine so she decided to lend a hand to help rough sleepers.

[SteveMacD]

I'm not familiar with that quote. Nora is spelled Norah though.
It’s not an actual quote, just something I can imagine her saying. And, I obviously couldn’t care less about Ms. Jones.

I think she would've responded to Lindsey if he asked after the European Leg in 2015.
Woah, I’m the one defending Fleetwood Mac/Stevie and even I think you’re giving her too much credit.

your conviction that Lindsey should've been fired.
I wasn’t a fan of his firing. However, based on what he said about Classic West and what Mick said to Rolling Stone, I wasn’t surprised. My thoughts were “if that was anyone but Lindsey Buckingham, they’d be fired” and “Lindsey’s never going to go for that,” respectively. Not a fan of the decision, but I understood why.

Stevie had nothing better to do in quarantine so she decided to lend a hand to help rough sleepers.
Except she’s saying she hasn’t spoken to anyone since December. So, it either happened right after the tour OR she’s lying about how long its been since they’ve spoken. Oh, wait, it’s really a Stevie soundalike and it’s actually a dysfunctional mess.

[UnwindedDreams]

It’s not an actual quote, just something I can imagine her saying. And, I obviously couldn’t care less about Ms. Jones.


Woah, I’m the one defending Fleetwood Mac/Stevie and even I think you’re giving her too much credit.


Except she’s saying she hasn’t spoken to anyone since December. So, it either happened right after the tour OR she’s lying about how long its been since they’ve spoken. Oh, wait, it’s really a Stevie soundalike and it’s actually a dysfunctional mess.
Could care less, not couldn't care less


It's not credit. I think after a NA and Euro run, she would've seen the value of recording with the entire band. Maybe he did ask her then...

Lastly, haven't you heard of "Have your people call my people?"

Don't you follow your name with uppercase article THE?:laugh: Might want to drop the case!

[SteveMacD]

Could care less, not couldn't care less
No. It’s COULDN’T care less (https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/could-couldnt-care-less).

It's not credit. I think after a NA and Euro run, she would've seen the value of recording with the entire band. Maybe he did ask her then...
And, how did that go for him?

Don't you follow your name with uppercase article THE?:laugh: Might want to drop the case!
No, I follow the uppercase THE with my new-ish name. The uppercase THE is an Ohio State reference. Got my Master’s there.

[UnwindedDreams]

No. It’s COULDN’T care less (https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/could-couldnt-care-less).


And, how did that go for him?


No, I follow the uppercase THE with my new-ish name. The uppercase THE is an Ohio State reference. Got my Master’s there.

According to your link, either is correct. I was in advanced collegiate English. My professor always used "could care less."

How did it go? She just wants to perform old songs on tour. Lindsey and Chris did 8 new songs on a tour. Stevie did 3 new songs on her solo tour. 2 from IYD are not new. She played IYD songs for 2 years.

Enjoy the 24 Karat Gold Film next week! Polka dot or gold shawl?

[SteveMacD]

According to your link, either is correct. I was in advanced collegiate English. My professor always used "could care less."
Seriously? WGAF?!?

Enjoy the 24 Karat Gold Film next week! Polka dot or gold shawl?
We’re in a global pandemic and I’m not that big of a Stevie fan. I might get the CD for “Crying In The Night,” though.

[HomerMcvie]

Stevie at Applebees..oh darn, please let’s go there.

How many dollar margaritas would it take for Stevie Nicks to write a new song!?

How many dollar margaritas would it take before Stevie Nicks claims she’s responsible for Prince’s entire fist album and they vacationed together in Italy for 20 years.

Man, I gotta say something....


You fu*king ROCK.

[michelej1]

If the film was playing near me like IYD was, I would go see it. I go out every day and always have, although I take masks and disinfectant very seriously. Also, I like more of the gal’s music than I dislike. I just hope that her remaining years on earth are miserable ones.

[SteveMacD]

If the film was playing near me like IYD was, I would go see it. I go out every day and always have, although I take masks and disinfectant very seriously. Also, I like more of the gal’s music than I dislike. I just hope that her remaining years on earth are miserable ones.

Having an autoimmune disorder makes me pick my battles a bit more carefully. I’m probably skipping the Peter Green tribute, too. That said, if they found a full Bare Trees era show that was debuting in theaters, I’d have to risk it. Oh, and I went to a socially distanced filming of a show streamed over the internet (twelve people in the crowd at a warehouse turned 500 person concert venue), which was surreal, since we had to be quiet. Imagine not being able to loudly rock out to GYOW.

[michelej1]

Having an autoimmune disorder makes me pick my battles a bit more carefully. I’m probably skipping the Peter Green tribute, too. That said, if they found a full Bare Trees era show that was debuting in theaters, I’d have to risk it. Oh, and I went to a socially distanced filming of a show streamed over the internet (twelve people in the crowd at a warehouse turned 500 person concert venue), which was surreal, since we had to be quiet. Imagine not being able to loudly rock out to GYOW.

Oh. I would think maybe they would want you to make a little noise to simulate an audience. But it sounds like a fun experience to have.

I just entered a neurofibromatosis rally to Zoom with the X-Files.

[FuzzyPlum]

Could care less, not couldn't care less





I suggest you give the following a view...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

Personally, I couldn't care less.

[Kubrick2788]

I've been away from the board for a while but figured this article would stir up the same mess it's been stirring for a few years. Glad to see nobody has lost their touch! I'm in the camp that hopes an overly dramatic reunion is on the cards. Didn't think I'd get a chance to see the Rumours lineup but I did! And I'd pay to see them again. I'd be interested to see what kind of new music they'd be able to come up with, but nothing's getting crossed waiting for it.

[SteveMacD]

https://variety.com/2018/music/news/lindsey-buckingham-fleetwood-mac-lawsuit-1202977969/

“So why did Buckingham get forced out? Loeb & Loeb evidently decided the lawsuit was not the place to go there, even as they attempt to methodically knock down all the official explanations that Nicks, Fleetwood and the two McVies have offered up in interviews. But Buckingham did offer further theories or clues in an interview published by Rolling Stone Wednesday.”

So, the WHY wasn’t actually addressed in the lawsuit and all we have is our own theories.

[sleepless child]

I don't think there is a "why". I think it's like Lindsey said in the Sunday Morning interview. It was some kind of a coup. I think it was a power struggle between Stevie and Lindsey. Lindsey wanted the group to move forward and record new material. Stevie wants to stay in the past. She was pushing for doing the older material on the last tour, which I think was actually a good idea.

But it is still no excuse for what she did. And she can't really explain it. No one can. But I think Brett Tuggle did a pretty good job of putting it out there for us. Lindsey got the shaft.

[elle]

still no excuse for what she did. And she can't really explain it. No one can. But I think Brett Tuggle did a pretty good job of putting it out there for us. Lindsey got the shaft.

exactly.

which is apparently why some people all of the sudden crawled out of the woodwork and started posting again, to try to muddy the issue by throwing out some painfully strained selective arguments.

[jbrownsjr]

exactly.

which is apparently why some people all of the sudden crawled out of the woodwork and started posting again, to try to muddy the issue by throwing out some painfully strained selective arguments.

Why anyone would condone, worship, or argue for her is beyond me. Brett confirming most of what we already knew saddens me.

[mitzo]

Why anyone would condone, worship, or argue for her is beyond me. Brett confirming most of what we already knew saddens me.

I don't think people here are condoning, worshiping, or arguing for her. They are indifferent to the firing and to Lindsey in general. Notice that they are not using particularly emotional language in discussing it.

[jbrownsjr]

I don't think people here are condoning, worshiping, or arguing for her. They are indifferent to the firing and to Lindsey in general. Notice that they are not using particularly emotional language in discussing it.

Agreed, there should be no emotion when discussing FMac. :shocked:

[HomerMcvie]

Agreed, there should be no emotion when discussing FMac. :shocked:

Hey JB, you KNOW that $tevie is the most popular member, right?

Good. Just checking!!!:D

[Macfan4life]

I posted a 1994 Street Angel interview (in the Stevie forum) with Stevie that I found very interesting. She is off drugs and very clear and actually proud of Street Angel (May 1994).
$tevie claims the rest of the band was jealous of her solo career and never complimented her on it. How Lindsey never listened to Bella Donna, etc.

OMG, does anyone really believe Stevie listened to Go Insane or Christine McVie. How come she never complimented her fellow Mac members on their solo careers. Why do they have to compliment her only. Ego? Or was it because she was more successful and feels they should be drooling over her.
Another point she wont bring up is how much she got paid touring with the Mac. After the solo tours and especially 1987, 1990, and 1997 and beyond, $tevie made so much more than the rest of the members. How come she never insisted on equal treatment in the band that made her famous. Good grief, I could see why the band never mentioned her solo career with that kind of attitude.

[HomerMcvie]

I posted a 1994 Street Angel interview (in the Stevie forum) with Stevie that I found very interesting. She is off drugs and very clear and actually proud of Street Angel (May 1994).
$tevie claims the rest of the band was jealous of her solo career and never complimented her on it. How Lindsey never listened to Bella Donna, etc.

OMG, does anyone really believe Stevie listened to Go Insane or Christine McVie. How come she never complimented her fellow Mac members on their solo careers. Why do they have to compliment her only. Ego? Or was it because she was more successful and feels they should be drooling over her.
Another point she wont bring up is how much she got paid touring with the Mac. After the solo tours and especially 1987, 1990, and 1997 and beyond, $tevie made so much more than the rest of the members. How come she never insisted on equal treatment in the band that made her famous. Good grief, I could see why the band never mentioned her solo career with that kind of attitude.

I love you for always being the voice of reason.:xoxo:

[elle]

I don't think people here are condoning, worshiping, or arguing for her. They are indifferent to the firing and to Lindsey in general. Notice that they are not using particularly emotional language in discussing it.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

you must have like 80% of people on The Ledge blocked if that's what you see in the posts here.

[elle]

Agreed, there should be no emotion when discussing FMac. :shocked:

yep. they are no-drama-no-emotion band. :nod: never built their career on emotional response to their albums. :]

no fans ever discussed their private lives, felt or sided with one or the other band member.

(i wish that was not the case.)

[SteveMacD]

I posted a 1994 Street Angel interview (in the Stevie forum) with Stevie that I found very interesting. She is off drugs and very clear and actually proud of Street Angel (May 1994).
$tevie claims the rest of the band was jealous of her solo career and never complimented her on it. How Lindsey never listened to Bella Donna, etc.

OMG, does anyone really believe Stevie listened to Go Insane or Christine McVie. How come she never complimented her fellow Mac members on their solo careers. Why do they have to compliment her only. Ego? Or was it because she was more successful and feels they should be drooling over her.
Another point she wont bring up is how much she got paid touring with the Mac. After the solo tours and especially 1987, 1990, and 1997 and beyond, $tevie made so much more than the rest of the members. How come she never insisted on equal treatment in the band that made her famous. Good grief, I could see why the band never mentioned her solo career with that kind of attitude.
I take everything she said in 1994 with a pound of salt. The emotional floodgates were fully opened after eight years of being on a tranquilizer. Remember how the band scared her? (John was the only one who publicly said anything about it, and it was priceless.)

Still, their lack of support for her solo career and Mick not giving her Silver Springs for her solo compilation were complete BS. Mick appeared on TWH and her Red Rocks “concert” video, and WB had control over how that version of Silver Springs was released, not Mick, and she knew that. Stevie was free to record a new version of the song, which she also knew.

The real reason was probably because her management though staying in Fleetwood Mac without Christine or Lindsey would hurt her career, her brand. (I think she should have made Mick, John, Billy, and Rick the core of her solo band and billed as something like “Stevie Nicks featuring Fleetwood Mac” and she’d be the boss.)

[SteveMacD]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

you must have like 80% of people on The Ledge blocked if that's what you see in the posts here.

Hmm...

So, you’re saying that the majority don’t want to hear from a particular person’s views on something and find it easier just to go into radio silence?

How ironic.

[mitzo]

Hmm...

So, you’re saying that the majority don’t want to hear from a particular person’s views on something and find it easier just to go into radio silence?

How ironic.

What I meant was that those who appear to support Stevie here are not necessarily worshipping her nor do they hate Lindsey etc. They just don't have much feeling about the firing.

[elle]

Hmm...

So, you’re saying that the majority don’t want to hear from a particular person’s views on something and find it easier just to go into radio silence?

How ironic.

i am saying that if Mitzo really sees only the stuff he says he does on The Ledge, it must mean that he has 80% of posters here blocked.

why is that ironic? it's his right to read whatever he wants. this is, after all, supposed to be an entertainment.

[SteveMacD]

i am saying that if Mitzo really sees only the stuff he says he does on The Ledge, it must mean that he has 80% of posters here blocked.

why is that ironic? it's his right to read whatever he wants. this is, after all, supposed to be an entertainment.

I read it as you saying 80% of people around here have blocked those of us who are neutral about Lindsey’s firing. Which, you know, 4 out of 5...

If I read that wrong and that’s not what you meant, I apologize.

[bombaysaffires]

I read it as you saying 80% of people around here have blocked those of us who are neutral about Lindsey’s firing. Which, you know, 4 out of 5...

If I read that wrong and that’s not what you meant, I apologize.

totally not how I read her post. I read it as her saying that if someone isn't seeing all the comments about LB's firing, they must have blocked or muted those who've been commenting on it. :shrug:

[Macfan4life]

I take everything she said in 1994 with a pound of salt. The emotional floodgates were fully opened after eight years of being on a tranquilizer. Remember how the band scared her? (John was the only one who publicly said anything about it, and it was priceless.)

Still, their lack of support for her solo career and Mick not giving her Silver Springs for her solo compilation were complete BS. Mick appeared on TWH and her Red Rocks “concert” video, and WB had control over how that version of Silver Springs was released, not Mick, and she knew that. Stevie was free to record a new version of the song, which she also knew.

The real reason was probably because her management though staying in Fleetwood Mac without Christine or Lindsey would hurt her career, her brand. (I think she should have made Mick, John, Billy, and Rick the core of her solo band and billed as something like “Stevie Nicks featuring Fleetwood Mac” and she’d be the boss.)
OMG really?

Stevie played hardball and left the band after 1990. She came crawling back to the band when her solo career tanked. Street Angel went cardboard and she was playing theaters and the Ohio Fair. She also was touring on a bus....something she never did in her solo career before.
Why would you disbelieve what she is saying? She has always hinted how awkward her solo career was with the Mac. So she is being honest in how she believes they felt. Why do they need to compliment her and not vice versa? We heard the Mirage tour rehearsals where Lindsey was playing Edge of 17 and they even played Leather and Lace. Stevie even brought her solo songs into the Mac set. Is that NOT the biggest compliment? Or should they just bow their heads and keep telling her how wonderful she is over and over? Better yet....how about a bed of roses as she walks on stage.

$tevie needs to be honest. This outrage that came out of her throwing down threats to leave the band or to fire Lindsey were spawned by Buckingham/McVie. She refused to take part in a new Fleetwood Mac album. The band recorded something without her and it drove her crazy. The band did something for once without her blessing. How come Stevie never commented on how good the Buck/Vie album was. Lindsey should have went to one of her concerts on the 24k Gold tour and put a copy outside her dressing room door. Then Lindsey could have cried to the press how Stevie never played it and never praised his work outside the band :eek:

[Newzchspy]

https://variety.com/2018/music/news/lindsey-buckingham-fleetwood-mac-lawsuit-1202977969/

“So why did Buckingham get forced out? Loeb & Loeb evidently decided the lawsuit was not the place to go there, even as they attempt to methodically knock down all the official explanations that Nicks, Fleetwood and the two McVies have offered up in interviews. But Buckingham did offer further theories or clues in an interview published by Rolling Stone Wednesday.”

So, the WHY wasn’t actually addressed in the lawsuit and all we have is our own theories. Lindsey's lawsuit says it all and does so very well. Let's be clear that Fleetwood Mac is not the same without !Lindsey. No disrespect to Neil and Mike, but they are NOT Lindsey. This one quote from Variety sums it up for me: " After Buckingham’s departure from Fleetwood Mac in 1987, the Band’s fortunes and popularity declined precipitously.” The lawsuit is not a big fan of the Dave Mason/Billy Burnette/Bekka Bramlett years.".

Funny how the article mentions one band mate willing to replace an ill John McVie in 2015 with a session player. I can only think of one person willing to do that, but he beats to an entirely different drum. For him, it's always been about the $$, nothing more or less.

So, nearly three years out from MusiCares and hindsight being 20/20, who precipitated all of this? The answer is pretty obvious. She even admits, even now, that when the band is not touring that each member has very little communication with the other, if at all. If they do, it's through management. Remember though, in recent interviews, she is an independent woman, a feminist who can do it ALL by herself. Lindsey not needed. However, when one listen to her latest " non-hit" , the non-chart climber , it shows that clearly she can not . Dave G and Dave S are also clearly NOT Lindsey and poor Waddy can only do so much with interpretive guitar sessions. This whole fish has been rotting from the head down for three years now and we know who the head fish is.

[lovethemac1]

You’re like the William Barr of the ledge....you’ll defend Stevie and the Mac at any and all costs, regardless of any amount of evidence that they’re sh*tty individuals.

^^ Amen......:nod:

[lovethemac1]

I think the Brett interview provided further confirmation to what most of us already knew. It does show that Fleetwood Mac used semantics to frame their truth which had some significant factual omissions, and essentially everything that Lindsey said in public or to some individuals during his tour were factually correct.

Lindsey got fired, Stevie wanted him fired, the rest of the band went along with it for the paycheck. (Not anticipating they would have to pay him north of $10 million for not playing with them) As Brett said, the contracts were signed. One thing I can speak to and it is not an opinion, the suit was brilliantly written and boxed the defendant into a legal corner. Especially now knowing there were contracts to tour and that Lindsey was stating verifiable facts. No wonder the suit was settled in record time.

As I stated in a prior thread is it clear to me that Lindsey wants back. We can debate if it is the right thing to do, or if us as individuals would make the same choice, but Lindsey needs and wants to be part of this band. Which is more than one can say for Stevie.

Lindsey is a different person than he was in 1987 that is for sure. He has mellowed and become sentimental for the art and people that shaped him. The driving factor to come back is not the money or I think Kristen would be far more open to idea of a return. (Hell if you believe Celebrity Net Worth, Lindsey is the wealthiest member of Fleetwood Mac. CNW is not a demonstrably accurate source, but it gives you an idea that his financial situation is quite stable)

There are the same 2 or 3 posters who repeatedly twist themselves into physically and mentally impossible contortions to defend Stevie's role in this process or to maintain their anti-Buckingham positions, and it is futile to respond. Again, it is the same 2 or 3 people and some once respected posters are now nothing more than shadow puppets who enjoy seeing people react to their written gymnastics.

Stevie has cutoff communication with the rest of the band. Mick has reconnected with Lindsey. Most likely Christine and Lindsey have communicated as well. Brett specifically notes that John McVie didn't want the change. Mick has great survival instincts. He sees the trend.

One side note - Those of you think Brett burned a bridge, there are never bridges burned in this band. Just hot flames that surround the bridge and block it from view. If Lindsey comes back, Brett will be back.

I do have some cynical thoughts. Why is this all coming out now? Those of us who have been around a while, the similarities to 1996 are for sure prescient. We will see where it all ends up, but at the very least I think we will see some level of musical and / or public interaction among Lindsey, Mick, Christine, and John.

Sorry, that turned into a wide ranging stream of consciousness....

Fabulous post, thank you for summarizing the whole situation!:xoxo:

[bwboy]

What I meant was that those who appear to support Stevie here are not necessarily worshipping her nor do they hate Lindsey etc. They just don't have much feeling about the firing.

Yes, that's how I feel. Just because I still like FM doesn't mean I'm happy they kicked him out. Just like I didn't hate Lindsey when he quit the band. I like the band because I love their music, and that's not going to change over people coming and going. I'm going to love Go Your Own Way, Crystal, and As Long As You Follow no matter what the band does.

Saying that Stevie is having a pretty remarkable past few years is accurate, I think. But if someone hates her now, then my comments are elevated to "you must have a shrine to her." It couldn't just be that it's impressive to me she's been inducted twice in the RRHOF, or that she's got a concert playing in theaters for 2 nights, it's that I worship her. I would be equally as impressed if it were Christine or Lindsey that had those accomplishments, especially one on top of the other. And that would be awesome if those things did happen to them. I'll probably see Lindsey live again, depending on Covid, and I'm happy he has a new CD ready to be released. I'm holding him to his promise that he'll performed Countdown, too LOL! I still have a couple of great songs recorded on my cell phone from his concert 2 years ago, I was lucky to be so close.

[Jondalar]

Brett Tuggle, who played keyboards on tour with Fleetwood Mac since 1997, said he believed he was dropped after 21 years because Stevie Nicks thought he was too close to fired guitarist Lindsey Buckingham.

Tuggle was one of the supporting musicians when the band started work with Mike Campbell and Neil Finn after Nicks forced out Buckingham in 2018, but he was soon told his services weren’t required. This came after a run that also included work on both Nicks and Buckingham solo projects.

“I thought it was fine with everybody for a minute,” Tuggle told Rolling Stone in a new interview. “In the end, I think, Stevie thought I was more in Lindsey’s camp. But I tried to be Switzerland to all the principles in the Mac. I felt like that was my job.”

He recalled a time when Nicks seemed unhappy about his participation in Buckingham’s solo projects: “It came to a point where Stevie said, ‘You’re going to have to decide.’ I said, ‘You know, Stevie, I love playing with you. I support you. But Lindsey doesn’t have a band.’ She said, ‘I know he needs good people.’ She seemed to be okay with it when I went off to do Lindsey’s thing. But I think in the end, she looked at me a little as abandoning her and going over to Lindsey’s camp. It really wasn’t that. I wasn’t all pro-Lindsey. I’m pro all of them.”

Tuggle remembered the feeling during early rehearsals with Campbell and Finn. “We got down there and did a couple days of rehearsal, but something felt weird with Stevie," he noted. "I could tell something was off with her. I think she had already made up her mind about me being Lindsey’s guy. I think my fate was already sealed whether I was there or not.”

He said he was “really shocked” when he was called and told he was out of Fleetwood Mac. “I also realized that I was in the middle of the politics of Lindsey and Stevie and this band, and there was nothing I was going to be able to do about it," he explained. "I had become Lindsey’s guy and that was it, and I had to accept it.”

Tuggle argued that Fleetwood Mac needed Buckingham. “I think right now what you have is a great band with Neil and Mike, but it’s not the same band," he said. "You really don’t have the tension that makes that band so great, which is Stevie and Lindsey, ex-lovers and everything, looking each other in the eye and giving you chills from the emotional context. You won’t get that from this band. You’re going to get the Stevie Mac, the people she wants there. And it’s going to be a Mac Lite - no offense. You’re not going to get the full goods.”

He added that Buckingham "is really the one that is driving the ship. He’s the instigator and the architect of the music. … You’ve got to put out new stuff to remain viable even if it’s not going to sell 12 million copies. Lindsey is all about putting out new art.”

Tuggle said he told both Nicks and Mick Fleetwood that he hoped there was some form of “redemption for Lindsey some day." “I care about them all," he noted. "They’re all a big part of my life.”



Read More: Fleetwood Mac Got Caught Between Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham | https://ultimateclassicrock.com/fleetwood-mac-nicks-buckingham-conflict/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral

[FuzzyPlum]

Not sure this really needs another new thread does it? This is just surmising some of the key points from the RS interview.

[HomerMcvie]

Not sure this really needs another new thread does it? This is just surmising some of the key points from the RS interview.

I was thinking the same. Redundant.

[David]

Tuggle remembered the feeling during early rehearsals with Campbell and Finn. “We got down there and did a couple days of rehearsal, but something felt weird with Stevie," he noted. "I could tell something was off with her. I think she had already made up her mind about me being Lindsey’s guy. I think my fate was already sealed whether I was there or not.”What an awful feeling that must have been. Imagine standing in the rehearsal hall with your longtime colleagues and knowing that something under the surface was amiss. Have you ever been fired from a job and not been directly told until after several other people already knew? It’s that awful feeling of the ax about to fall but you haven’t been told it’s falling on your neck. It’s a rotten, rotten thing to do to people. Why allow Brett to attend a rehearsal if you’re only going to can him? Why not be decent and call him beforehand so that he can hang on to a shred of dignity and not appear in person? So that he isn’t standing in a room full of acquaintances getting ready to play, thinking that he’s supposed to be playing, too?

Tuggle said he told both Nicks and Mick Fleetwood that he hoped there was some form of “redemption for Lindsey some day." “I care about them all," he noted. "They’re all a big part of my life.”I can understand caring for these people musically, but personally? How can you? Hypocrisy is what enrages me more than one-off cruelty or avarice. How can Mick and Stevie stand on a concert stage and lecture us about “taking care of one another” and being kind to everyone — and then shaft people close to them over and over? What kind of delusion drives that degree of disconnect? How can anyone preach kindness after every concert and in every interview and then shoot the mule out from under dozens of coworkers over the years? Where do they get off with the didacticism, painting themselves as enlightened moral beacons? Makes me sick! I say to Mick and Stevie and the others: Do whatever you want politically to people in that band, but shut up about how lovely you are. You’re a sleaze, just like the rest of us down here in the mud.

Meanwhile, though, Dreams is the no. 1 song in the country. Again. I feel as if all my dreams were coming true.

[David]

Most of the band did, all of the current frontline. It was an example of the band being more functional than it had become by 2015.
Have you already forgotten the months of work that John, Mick, Chris, and Lindsey did in 2017, which culminated in an actual “feature-length” album — followed by a tour? That year — for everyone except Stevie — was the acme of a functional Fleetwood Mac.

Honestly, trying to paint Lindsey as the cause of some sort of long-term stasis in that band is just silly. Maybe back in 1984–87, but not at all since he rejoined officially in 1997.

[David]

Saying that Stevie is having a pretty remarkable past few years is accurate, I think.
Yes, she is. Her career — her public profile in general — seems to have a second, a third, and a fourth wind. On that level, she’s really remarkable. On an artistic level, she can still pull a passionate vocal (like the latest JFK thing) or somehow tap into the current collective spirit. She has always managed to do this, even during the times (like the early 1990s) when she was the target of so much ridicule in the wider culture. She is a pop phoenix, and you should never say, “This, finally, is the end of Stevie Nicks.” She comes back to bite you. People — even other celebrities — who wrote her off in 1980 or 1985 or 1995 wind up looking like shortsighted fools. Remember the artist she was in those tiny Polaroids on the Rumours insert, in her black chiffon, when she figured out such a cool way to combine English gothic romanticism and 1960s psychedelic rock? How many people thought she’d still be a force in pop in 2020? Is she the artist I wish she were? Nope. Is she durable and beloved? Yep.

[elle]

What an awful feeling that must have been. Imagine standing in the rehearsal hall with your longtime colleagues and knowing that something under the surface was amiss. Have you ever been fired from a job and not been directly told until after several other people already knew? It’s that awful feeling of the ax about to fall but you haven’t been told it’s falling on your neck. It’s a rotten, rotten thing to do to people. Why allow Brett to attend a rehearsal if you’re only going to can him? Why not be decent and call him beforehand so that he can hang on to a shred of dignity and not appear in person? So that he isn’t standing in a room full of acquaintances getting ready to play, thinking that he’s supposed to be playing, too?

I can understand caring for these people musically, but personally? How can you? Hypocrisy is what enrages me more than one-off cruelty or avarice. How can Mick and Stevie stand on a concert stage and lecture us about “taking care of one another” and being kind to everyone — and then shaft people close to them over and over? What kind of delusion drives that degree of disconnect? How can anyone preach kindness after every concert and in every interview and then shoot the mule out from under dozens of coworkers over the years? Where do they get off with the didacticism, painting themselves as enlightened moral beacons? Makes me sick! I say to Mick and Stevie and the others: Do whatever you want politically to people in that band, but shut up about how lovely you are. You’re a sleaze, just like the rest of us down here in the mud.

Meanwhile, though, Dreams is the no. 1 song in the country. Again. I feel as if all my dreams were coming true.

in the other thread about the original article, someone mentioned rumors at the time that Brett said something to them - that what they were doing wasn't right..... and that sealed his faith. original article has Brett's quote about heartbroken he was at that rehearsal and how wrong they sounded.

remember also at the time, we've heard that Lindsey was considering flying out to Hawaii to try convince them to reconsider. i think Lindsey even mentioned that in one of his RS interviews, and said he ultimately decided not to go, that it would be futile. maybe Brett was hoping he can make them see the light.

[BombaySapphire3]

remember also at the time, we've heard that Lindsey was considering flying out to Hawaii to try convince them to reconsider. i think Lindsey even mentioned that in one of his RS interviews, and said he ultimately decided not to go, that it would be futile. maybe Brett was hoping he can make them see the light.

Yeah I'm sure that Lindsey understood that it would be useless considering Mick's boundless avarice and Stevie's vendetta ..this has to make her one of the most treacherous villains in the history of rock bands.

[elle]

Fleetwood Mac Got Caught Between Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham | https://ultimateclassicrock.com/fleetwood-mac-nicks-buckingham-conflict/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral
what's interesting about this article is that they excised all the parts that made clear the wrongs that Stevie and Mick did to Lindsey without any reason, including Brett's description of the "new" band feeling just so wrong, and instead they just left in parts that make it look like Lindsey is actually guilty of something and poor Brett was erroneously put in Lindsey's camp and pulled down with him.

[SteveMacD]

OMG really?

Stevie played hardball and left the band after 1990. She came crawling back to the band when her solo career tanked. Street Angel went cardboard and she was playing theaters and the Ohio Fair. She also was touring on a bus....something she never did in her solo career before.
Why would you disbelieve what she is saying? She has always hinted how awkward her solo career was with the Mac. So she is being honest in how she believes they felt. Why do they need to compliment her and not vice versa? We heard the Mirage tour rehearsals where Lindsey was playing Edge of 17 and they even played Leather and Lace. Stevie even brought her solo songs into the Mac set. Is that NOT the biggest compliment? Or should they just bow their heads and keep telling her how wonderful she is over and over? Better yet....how about a bed of roses as she walks on stage.
I think you misunderstood what I said. I was saying that Fleetwood Mac not respecting her career and not getting Silver Springs were BS excuses she gave for leaving the band. Given Stand Back and HAEWAFY were in the setlist shows they obviously respected her career.

[SteveMacD]

Lindsey's lawsuit says it all and does so very well. Let's be clear that Fleetwood Mac is not the same without !Lindsey. No disrespect to Neil and Mike, but they are NOT Lindsey.
Judging by the original setlist, I think that was kind of the point.

This one quote from Variety sums it up for me: " After Buckingham’s departure from Fleetwood Mac in 1987, the Band’s fortunes and popularity declined precipitously.” The lawsuit is not a big fan of the Dave Mason/Billy Burnette/Bekka Bramlett years.".
Yeah, and OOTC caught the world’s attention, what, peaking at #128 and all...

Funny how the article mentions one band mate willing to replace an ill John McVie in 2015 with a session player. I can only think of one person willing to do that, but he beats to an entirely different drum. For him, it's always been about the $$, nothing more or less.
Just for a leg. It wouldn’t have been a permanent thing. I doubt McVie would have had an issue. Remember who was coming back?

The morning his cancer was announced began with a video of the band leaving the hotel for the venue the night before. Christine (still NOT in the band, and not performing) was the last one to leave. It seemed that her return was imminent (and it was). Do you think Christine would accept a different bassist full time if John was healthy enough???

Really???

She even admits, even now, that when the band is not touring that each member has very little communication with the other, if at all.
So? Hell, I rarely contact friends or family these days. Not because I don’t care, but because I don’t have anything going on worthy of a call because of this effing pandemic. Plus, Neil, Mike, and Mick have other projects they’re focusing on, too.

[Newzchspy]

So? Hell, I rarely contact friends or family these days. Not because I don’t care, but because I don’t have anything going on worthy of a call because of this effing pandemic. Plus, Neil, Mike, and Mick have other projects they’re focusing on, too.You entirely missed the point. There are many on here who believe in the divine reconciliation of Stevie and Lindsey and have for years. I've always been an outlier, believing that they essentially despise one another. Seems that from what Stevie has said recently and Lindsey's lawsuit two years ago I was correct. Hell hasn't frozen over, but I don't ever see those two on the stage together again. Stevie f'd up a perfectly good business relationship.

[SteveMacD]

You entirely missed the point. There are many on here who believe in the divine reconciliation of Stevie and Lindsey and have for years. I've always been an outlier, believing that they essentially despise one another. Seems that from what Stevie has said recently and Lindsey's lawsuit two years ago I was correct. Hell hasn't frozen over, but I don't ever see those two on the stage together again. Stevie f'd up a perfectly good business relationship.
Oh, I agree. I gagged at “Landslide” in 1997 and thought it was all an act. Aside from Christine being my favorite Fleetwood Mac singer/songwriter, I was thrilled with her return because I couldn’t deal with the Stevie/Lindsey drama anymore.

[HomerMcvie]

You entirely missed the point. There are many on here who believe in the divine reconciliation of Stevie and Lindsey and have for years. I've always been an outlier, believing that they essentially despise one another. Seems that from what Stevie has said recently and Lindsey's lawsuit two years ago I was correct. Hell hasn't frozen over, but I don't ever see those two on the stage together again. Stevie f'd up a perfectly good business relationship.
He should never go back. It would be so STUPID now if they did all the hand holding, etc. It was stupid before!
I'll never understand HOW he could want to stand on stage with her again. Would his tail be completely tucked into his ass crack, or would he just go ahead and get it cut off? I mean SERIOUSLY???
She publicly HUMILIATED him, and he'd go back and stand there with her?:mad:

[jbrownsjr]

Oh, I agree. I gagged at “Landslide” in 1997 and thought it was all an act. Aside from Christine being my favorite Fleetwood Mac singer/songwriter, I was thrilled with her return because I couldn’t deal with the Stevie/Lindsey drama anymore.

It was becoming so dull and stale. But, they had new fans that really thought it was real. A lot of new fans came on board at this time and they liked the soap opera more than anything else.

I think FM knocked Puff Daddy out of the #1 slot with The Dance.

[lovethemac1]

40 years later, more relevant than ever

<a href="https://ibb.co/fxS677x"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/x7s9QQ7/16618-FE7-BAFE-4-E4-B-B7-BC-C5646-BD1-D949.jpg" alt="16618-FE7-BAFE-4-E4-B-B7-BC-C5646-BD1-D949" border="0" /></a>

Hahahahaha, AWESOME!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

[UnwindedDreams]

Yeah, and OOTC caught the world’s attention, what, peaking at #128 and all...

Really a bitter comment. It's mean to any artist that doesn't make tons of money off album sales.

You sound like you think Lindsey is a nobody. Why did NIN have him at the Grammys? Dave Grohl called Stevie "Lindsey Buckingham's girl."

Behind the Mask Tour visited the Trump Taj 5,000 seat ballroom. When Lindsey came back, they played either the 14,000 seat Boardwalk Hall or the 12,000 seat open field at Borgata.

[SteveMacD]

Really a bitter comment. It's mean to any artist that doesn't make tons of money off album sales.
Lindsey went out of his way to highlight Fleetwood Mac’s lack of success without him in the lawsuit. I’m showing that it works both ways.

Lindsey’s six solo albums sold less than the six albums Fleetwood Mac recorded prior to his involvement, and that’s after Rumours and after he had three Top Ten songs. His highest charting solo album, L&O, peaked at #32 while HAHTF peaked at #34 and BTM #18. Meanwhile, Bella Donna outsold Tusk and Mirage. Mick could legitimately say that Lindsey never had a Top Ten hit without him.

Behind the Mask Tour visited the Trump Taj 5,000 seat ballroom. When Lindsey came back, they played either the 14,000 seat Boardwalk Hall or the 12,000 seat open field at Borgata.
And, in 2017, LBCM was playing 4,000 seat amphitheaters while Stevie was packing 20,000 seat arenas.

[jmn3]

Lindsey went out of his to highlight Fleetwood Mac’s lack of success without him in the lawsuit. I’m showing that it works both ways.

Lindsey’s six solo albums sold less than the six albums Fleetwood Mac recorded prior to his involvement, and that’s after Rumours and after he had three Top Ten songs. His highest charting solo album, L&O, peaked at #32 while HAHTF peaked at #34 and BTM #18. Meanwhile, Bella Donna outsold Tusk and Mirage. Mick could legitimately say that Lindsey never had a Top Ten hit without him.


And, in 2017, LBCM was playing 4,000 seat amphitheaters while Stevie was packing 20,000 seat arenas.

Lindsey's contributions to Fleetwood Mac and the impact upon the band's success has nothing to do with his solo career. The fact is that the band lacked the same degree of success during the years he wasn't in it. The members of Fleetwood Mac were not removed from Lindsey's solo orbit so the comparison is ridiculous.

And for the love of God, Stevie only "sold out" 20k seats in 2017 because of The Pretenders. She was never selling out arenas on her own in 2017.

Your ability to contort every single piece of data to fit some ridiculous anti-Lindsey, pro-Stevie position is really uncanny.

This fivesome is better together. They were in 1975....1982...1997...2014...you name the year, when these five get together, they make each other better.

[UnwindedDreams]

Mick could legitimately say that Lindsey never had a Top Ten hit without him.


And, in 2017, LBCM was playing 4,000 seat amphitheaters while Stevie was packing 20,000 seat arenas.

Convenient for you to leave out the points about Dave Grohl and NIN. As if one's legacy and musical contributions don't mean anything. It's just all about how high a record charts. Did Desperado chart high?

With your thinking, it can be said that Holiday Road wasn't a Top Ten Hit yet it could be more well known that Edge, Stand Back, Talk to Me, or Stop Draggin'.
Countless TV commercials and inclusion in a classic film.

You should take a look at the Billboard attendance for Stevie's 24 Tour. Sure, it's great she made a lot of money in ticket sales and sold out The Forum and MSG which Lindsey could not do on his own happily for you.
You'll notice a lot of 7k and 8k numbers in the data. They're not Streisand or Cher numbers. When she didn't have the Pretenders, she played small cities like Green Bay, Youngstown, and St. Charles.


Lindsey also played solo the Sands which Stevie played on the 24k Tour. It's a theater.

When was the last time you saw Stevie solo? I went to plenty of Stevie shows in the 2000s where they were not even close to sold out. Two of them my friends walked into the theater when the show was still going on without tickets.

You don't post with impartiality. Your displeasure for Lindsey is as striking as coyote piss.

[Nicks Fan]

Convenient for you to leave out the points about Dave Grohl and NIN. As if one's legacy and musical contributions don't mean anything. It's just all about how high a record charts. Did Desperado chart high?

With your thinking, it can be said that Holiday Road wasn't a Top Ten Hit yet it could be more well known that Edge, Stand Back, Talk to Me, or Stop Draggin'.
Countless TV commercials and inclusion in a classic film.

You should take a look at the Billboard attendance for Stevie's 24 Tour. Sure, it's great she made a lot of money in ticket sales and sold out The Forum and MSG which Lindsey could not do on his own happily for you.
You'll notice a lot of 7k and 8k numbers in the data. They're not Streisand or Cher numbers. When she didn't have the Pretenders, she played small cities like Green Bay, Youngstown, and St. Charles.


Lindsey also played solo the Sands which Stevie played on the 24k Tour. It's a theater.

When was the last time you saw Stevie solo? I went to plenty of Stevie shows in the 2000s where they were not even close to sold out. Two of them my friends walked into the theater when the show was still going on without tickets.

You don't post with impartiality. Your displeasure for Lindsey is as striking as coyote piss.


I saw Melissa Etheridge at the sands in 2012 and I recall correctly it seats 2500.

Plus remember on 2011-2012 tour she played the Fox theatre in Detroit, the Seneca Falls casino in Niagara Falls and one of the casinos in either Norman or Thackerville OK.

I would like to see Stevie book an arena tour with no opener and we can see how many tickets she sells. I don’t think she would fill up a 20,000 seat arena like Tina did in 2008 on her last tour.

Lindsey’s solo career wasn’t red hot in the 90’s but his comments were correct re FM. They had a top 40 album and 1 top 40 single but they were not exactly selling millions of records and while they did play some big venues they did play some small venues and or smaller markets like Bethlehem PA at Stabler Arena.

As for the last tour it did well but nothing compared to some of their previous tours and if they go out on the road again people likely wouldn’t care because they saw this lineup once and with no new product likely not much interest.

I really hope though that Lindsey doesn’t go back. I know why he wants to but at the same time the band really screwed him and don’t deserve him back.

[UnwindedDreams]

Plus remember on 2011-2012 tour she played the Fox theatre in Detroit, the Seneca Falls casino in Niagara Falls and one of the casinos in either Norman or Thackerville OK.

There was also a random amphitheater in St Augustine Florida and maybe one at a zoo in Toledo on the IYD. And the Mahaffey Theater in Florida.

But it was Stevie's personal choice to play there, it wasn't booked on financial projections because if that was done, she would've done a ten show run at Dolphin Stadium, where she played in 2007... in the parking lot.

[HomerMcvie]

You don't post with impartiality. Your displeasure for Lindsey is as striking as coyote piss.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe we have the Ledge quote of the year!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[michelej1]

I should say that talking about wanting to replace John McVie was unnecessary for the breach of contract lawsuit and it was hurtful. I don’t approve, just as I didn’t approve of him saying Christine was fragile. He was talking to them through the press for leverage. The lawsuit complaint was meant for the public, not the court and I don’t know if John cared, but if he did that stings.

I suppose all is fair in past love and present war when the McVies let Stevie and Mick do what they did.

[SteveMacD]

Lindsey's contributions to Fleetwood Mac and the impact upon the band's success has nothing to do with his solo career…The members of Fleetwood Mac were not removed from Lindsey's solo orbit so the comparison is ridiculous.
It’s a totally valid comparison. It’s not as if he changed his approach to songwriting or production between Fleetwood Mac and solo, especially between TITN and OOTC. Those songs are so aesthetically similar that they’re interchangeable. Just as Fleetwood Mac benefited from his contributions, he benefited from their brand. Do you think Big Love would have gone to #5 if it had been released on a solo album? Is it really that different from Go Insane or Doing What I Can?

The fact is that the band lacked the same degree of success during the years he wasn't in it.
While SYW peaked higher on the charts, BTM sold more copies and had a Top 40 single, so that’s open for debate. OOTC tanked, Street Angel tanked, and Time tanked. See a pattern? I doubt a studio album with the five of them would have been much of a blip in the early-mid ‘90s. Fleetwood Mac in general was about as cool as a pocket protector before their version of Hell Freezes Over.

And for the love of God, Stevie only "sold out" 20k seats in 2017 because of The Pretenders. She was never selling out arenas on her own in 2017.
Even if only half the crowd was there for Stevie, that’s 10K. LBCM played to maybe 3K. So, given that she had sold tens of millions of albums on her own and was now able to do arena tours without the band, she was firmly in the driver’s seat.

Your ability to contort every single piece of data to fit some ridiculous anti-Lindsey, pro-Stevie position is really uncanny.
When I talk about charts, sales, etc., it’s not an endorsement or rejection of the art or artist, it’s in response to claims of this person or that person being responsible for their success or superstardom. Those are very separate things. Lindsey and/or Stevie being credited for Fleetwood Mac’s success and superstardom is just as nails on the chalkboard for me as “the REAL Fleetwood Mac was Peter Green’s Fleetwood Mac.”

Fleetwood Mac’s success was more about the freak show than the music. HAHTF benefited from Fake Mac scandal to become their first Top 40 album The white album’s sales spiked after it was announced the McVies were divorcing. Similarly, TITN sold more copies after Lindsey quit than before.

[SteveMacD]

Convenient for you to leave out the points about Dave Grohl and NIN.
Because it was a red herring not worthy of a reply. Nobody is arguing that Lindsey’s not an amazing producer or rock legend.

You should take a look at the Billboard attendance for Stevie's 24 Tour. Sure, it's great she made a lot of money in ticket sales and sold out The Forum and MSG which Lindsey could not do on his own happily for you.
You'll notice a lot of 7k and 8k numbers in the data. They're not Streisand or Cher numbers. When she didn't have the Pretenders, she played small cities like Green Bay, Youngstown, and St. Charles.
I’m not interested in seeing the forest for the trees. It was still the biggest solo tour of her career.

When was the last time you saw Stevie solo? I went to plenty of Stevie shows in the 2000s where they were not even close to sold out. Two of them my friends walked into the theater when the show was still going on without tickets.
I’m not a Stevie solo fan. In fact, I’ve seen her only once solo, when Sheryl Crow was in the band. By contrast, I’ve seen Lindsey outside of Fleetwood Mac four times, the most of the lot.

You don't post with impartiality. Your displeasure for Lindsey is as striking as coyote piss.
Depends on the topic. For example, whenever someone tries to claim Lindsey was misogynistic or abusive towards Stevie, I call BS. She’s never claimed he did, and I have no doubt in her ability to throw him under the bus, so if it was remotely true, she would have shouted it from the mountain by now. Also, it doesn’t fit the pattern. She demonstrably didn’t need him after 1981 yet continued working with him.

[David]

It’s not as if he changed his approach to songwriting or production between Fleetwood Mac and solo Oh, it is as if he changed his approach to songwriting or production between Fleetwood Mac and solo — because he actually did that over and over again. He very deliberately used his solo albums the way Beethoven used his piano sonatas: to experiment. He always said he hoped that his solo albums would interest more people, but he also said that he wasn’t all that surprised that they didn’t. They never will. In fact, if they ever did, something really, really weird will have happened to the mass-market music-buying public — zombie apocalypse, perhaps.

Isn’t it beyond obvious, besides, that Lindsey isn’t the commercial power that Fleetwood Mac or Stevie Nicks is? Why is that continually articulated as if it were a novel observation? Is there a single Lindsey Buckingham fan here or anywhere else who wants to see him play Madison Square Garden? A few nights ago, I watched one of his concert Blu-rays from a few years ago. Imagine trying to put that show over in an arena. It would be like staging Ibsen at the Rose Bowl.

When I talk about charts, sales, etc., it’s not an endorsement or rejection of the art or artist, it’s in response to claims of this person or that person being responsible for their success or superstardom.Then why do you keep engaging at that level? We’ve already made perfectly clear to everyone on the forum that commercial megastars like Rihanna and Eminem and Kanye and Lil Wayne and Nicki Minaj and Drake and Jay Z outsell and outplay the individual members of Fleetwood Mac. But can any of them sing “Buddy’s Song” properly?

[David]

I’m not a Stevie solo fan.Esthetically speaking, that may be your problem right there.

[David]

How come by the time I get off work and start posting, everyone has gone to bed? :mad:

[michelej1]

Is there a single Lindsey Buckingham fan here or anywhere else who wants to see him play Madison Square Garden?

I want to see him play MSG.

Still, I am very happy with his accomplishments. I don't see the Tik Tok video and think, "I wish Lindsey could even come close to that kind of success." I listen and remember what Christine said about how uneventful and monotonous Dreams sounded when it emerged from Sly Stone's bed, to be transformed by Lindsey.

It's not necessary for me to lament Lindsey's lack of solo success when I feel that he is responsible for so much of Fleetwood Mac's.

Furthermore, as mortified as I was when he opened for Tina Turner, I think I'd have to kill myself if he opened for Rod Stewart. I don't spend a lot of time wishing he had Stevie's record or ticket sales.

I do wish he had the power, but not the immorality, to get Stevie fired, however. I envy her that.

[Macfan4life]

I want to see him play MSG.

Still, I am very happy with his accomplishments. I don't see the Tik Tok video and think, "I wish Lindsey could even come close to that kind of success." I listen and remember what Christine said about how uneventful and monotonous Dreams sounded when it emerged from Sly Stone's bed, to be transformed by Lindsey.

It's not necessary for me to lament Lindsey's lack of solo success when I feel that he is responsible for so much of Fleetwood Mac's.

Furthermore, as mortified as I was when he opened for Tina Turner, I think I'd have to kill myself if he opened for Rod Stewart. I don't spend a lot of time wishing he had Stevie's record or ticket sales.

I do wish he had the power, but not the immorality, to get Stevie fired, however. I envy her that.
Stevie's tour with Rod Stewart was the biggest mistake in her career since klonopin. Both have loyal fan bases and there was no need for them to tour "together." I wonder if they really split things 50/50. They billed the tour as no opening acts and just dual concerts. However Rod's ego made Stevie open every night and have Stevie join him on his stage. He never came out on her stage.
I give Stevie credit when she toured with Don Henley. He opened yet she still came out on stage on his set to sing with him. Rod's giant ego would not give her that respect.

[jmn3]

Stevie's tour with Rod Stewart was the biggest mistake in her career since klonopin. Both have loyal fan bases and there was no need for them to tour "together." I wonder if they really split things 50/50. They billed the tour as no opening acts and just dual concerts. However Rod's ego made Stevie open every night and have Stevie join him on his stage. He never came out on her stage.
I give Stevie credit when she toured with Don Henley. He opened yet she still came out on stage on his set to sing with him. Rod's giant ego would not give her that respect.

The two of them trying to harmonize on Young Turks night after night was just dreadful.

[ricohv]

Furthermore, as mortified as I was when he opened for Tina Turner, I think I'd have to kill myself if he opened for Rod Stewart. [/I]
:lol::lol::lol::lol: DITTO :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[ricohv]

The two of them trying to harmonize on Young Turks night after night was just dreadful.
The 2 of them on the same stage was indeed a dreadful, unfortunate mix of oil & water, or apples & oranges, or....
:shrug::shrug::shrug:

[jbrownsjr]

The 2 of them on the same stage was indeed a dreadful, unfortunate mix of oil & water, or apples & oranges, or....
:shrug::shrug::shrug:

nasal and throaty

[HomerMcvie]

I want to see him play MSG.

Still, I am very happy with his accomplishments. I don't see the Tik Tok video and think, "I wish Lindsey could even come close to that kind of success." I listen and remember what Christine said about how uneventful and monotonous Dreams sounded when it emerged from Sly Stone's bed, to be transformed by Lindsey.

It's not necessary for me to lament Lindsey's lack of solo success when I feel that he is responsible for so much of Fleetwood Mac's.

Furthermore, as mortified as I was when he opened for Tina Turner, I think I'd have to kill myself if he opened for Rod Stewart. I don't spend a lot of time wishing he had Stevie's record or ticket sales.

I do wish he had the power, but not the immorality, to get Stevie fired, however. I envy her that.
As much as Lindsey is the genius behind FM's success, he was never meant for mass appeal, solo. Listen to Law and Order, and tell me he's not quirky AF. Quirky AF doesn't work for mass appeal, unless you're Weird Al.

[jmn3]

As much as Lindsey is the genius behind FM's success, he was never meant for mass appeal, solo. Listen to Law and Order, and tell me he's not quirky AF. Quirky AF doesn't work for mass appeal, unless you're Weird Al.

Okay but even then I can't imagine going to see Weird Al at the Garden.

Totally agree about Lindsey. If he wanted to, he could have had more mass appeal. The man who wrote Go Your Own Way could have been more hit focused in his solo career for sure, if he wanted to. I don't think he ever really cared. Maybe with OOTC he tried to have more (even that one is debatable on the whole) but by that point he was already over 40 and the ship had sailed.

[Nicks Fan]

Stevie's tour with Rod Stewart was the biggest mistake in her career since klonopin. Both have loyal fan bases and there was no need for them to tour "together." I wonder if they really split things 50/50. They billed the tour as no opening acts and just dual concerts. However Rod's ego made Stevie open every night and have Stevie join him on his stage. He never came out on her stage.
I give Stevie credit when she toured with Don Henley. He opened yet she still came out on stage on his set to sing with him. Rod's giant ego would not give her that respect.

Rod did sing with her during her set but only on select dates. They did leather and lace during a performance in Houston Rod pissed Stevie off because he made a motion with his hands to suggest he was literally taking off a woman’s panties while performing the song.

Rod is my favourite male singer but I was kind of surprised he chose her to share the bill. They have two different styles. I know they both sing Rock and Roll music but they still have different types of music.

When I saw the tour in Montreal I was probably the only SN fan there. As I understand it he asked her to tour. I have a mixed opinion on whether or not it was a mistake. Getting her new music out there for casual fans or non fans who attended the shows isn’t a bad idea but at the same time she should have been headlining her own tour.

Since that tour he has done several others with another big name opening up.

2013 Live The Life with Steve Winwood
2015 Carlos Santana
2017-2018 Cyndi Lauper
2020- He was supposed to tour with Blondie but Chris Stein had surgery and so he had to replace them with Cheap Trick. COVID stopped the tour though.

[UnwindedDreams]

Rod actually sang Leather & Lace during his set. Waddy and Stevie were on the stage with him during his set to do L and L.
Rod did walk on stage and introduce Stevie at the shows I went to.
Your Rod Stewart knowledge is impressive!
I like Rod a lot too. Stevie said she was proud to open for him. Fun fact, she also opened for Aerosmith at a big show in Honolulu in 07.

[jbrownsjr]

Okay but even then I can't imagine going to see Weird Al at the Garden.

Totally agree about Lindsey. If he wanted to, he could have had more mass appeal. The man who wrote Go Your Own Way could have been more hit focused in his solo career for sure, if he wanted to. I don't think he ever really cared. Maybe with OOTC he tried to have more (even that one is debatable on the whole) but by that point he was already over 40 and the ship had sailed.

I agree moneywise and stardom. SN wins hands down. I do not even hate the messy lyrical turd of a new song she just put out.

But as a human being her actions followed by dishonesty have disgusted me. I'll take the other four playing a 2000-6000 seat arena any day of the week. BuckVie was truly a wonderful intimate experience for me. Christine coming back was to a record was such a beautiful surprise. I still listen to the album. It's a simple little gem. And then there was Mick's wonderful tribute to Peter Green concert. I loved that, too!

Musically, they don't need her. They don't even need her for money. The only thing they need her for is 20,000 seat filler. (ego) I'd also, argue she needs them or some other name to fill it. Money and ego can only go so far.

[UnwindedDreams]

Musically, they don't need her. They don't even need her for money. The only thing they need her for is 20,000 seat filler. (ego) I'd also, argue she needs them or some other name to fill it. Money and ego can only go so far. They bring up her induction into the Hall. But actually, what was she inducted for? What contributions to Rock or the struggle of equality for women artists did Stevie make or transcend as a solo artist before Tina, Diana, Cher, Pat Benatar, Kate Bush, Bonnie Raitt, Chaka did?
The induction featured a lot of talk about Fleetwood Mac and didn't pin down the solo music's enrichment of Rock music.
She's close with Irving. Somehow Irving's getting inducted this year.

[jmn3]

I agree moneywise and stardom. SN wins hands down. I do not even hate the messy lyrical turd of a new song she just put out.

But as a human being her actions followed by dishonesty have disgusted me. I'll take the other four playing a 2000-6000 seat arena any day of the week. BuckVie was truly a wonderful intimate experience for me. Christine coming back was to a record was such a beautiful surprise. I still listen to the album. It's a simple little gem. And then there was Mick's wonderful tribute to Peter Green concert. I loved that, too!

Musically, they don't need her. They don't even need her for money. The only thing they need her for is 20,000 seat filler. (ego) I'd also, argue she needs them or some other name to fill it. Money and ego can only go so far.

Agreed 100%. I saw the five of them together in a big arena in 2014. It was great. If she wanted nothing to do with BuckVie and wanted to be away from Lindsey, she should have quit and wished them well. I would have loved to have seen a much smaller Fleetwood Mac show in an intimate venue with the foursome and the backing band. I like Stevie's Mac songs but a Fleetwood Mac set with a big selection from the new album plus Chris and Lindsey's hits and some unearthed gems would have been very cool. It would have been different, smaller, and without the stank in the air of someone being fired.

[SteveMacD]

A new album and theater tour would be great for fans, I’d certainly be all over that, but the album wouldn’t be a blip on anyone’s radar outside of fans, especially without Stevie, and would be quickly forgotten. How would that help their legacy?

Mick, John, and Christine remember the days of 1970-1976, when even finishing a tour wasn’t guaranteed. They weren’t having commercial success while their contemporaries (Clapton, Winwood, Stewart, Deep Purple, etc.) were becoming legends. Hell, even Santana had a hit with a Fleetwood Mac song, but not Fleetwood Mac. And, I’m sure Mick and John remember the sting of having to tour with REO and Benatar when they were considered irrelevant washed up has beens while The Eagles, Page/Plant, and Pink Floyd packed arenas.

Mick, John, and Christine want Fleetwood Mac to go out as an arena rock band and all the trappings that go with it. They’ve earned that privilege.

[Macfan4life]

Rod did sing with her during her set but only on select dates. They did leather and lace during a performance in Houston Rod pissed Stevie off because he made a motion with his hands to suggest he was literally taking off a woman’s panties while performing the song.

Rod is my favourite male singer but I was kind of surprised he chose her to share the bill. They have two different styles. I know they both sing Rock and Roll music but they still have different types of music.

When I saw the tour in Montreal I was probably the only SN fan there. As I understand it he asked her to tour. I have a mixed opinion on whether or not it was a mistake. Getting her new music out there for casual fans or non fans who attended the shows isn’t a bad idea but at the same time she should have been headlining her own tour.

Since that tour he has done several others with another big name opening up.

2013 Live The Life with Steve Winwood
2015 Carlos Santana
2017-2018 Cyndi Lauper
2020- He was supposed to tour with Blondie but Chris Stein had surgery and so he had to replace them with Cheap Trick. COVID stopped the tour though.
That's not what I said. YES, they both sang together but it was on Rod's stage. When they did the interview breaking the news about the tour, they both said they would be singing on each other's stage (like Stevie did with Don). That NEVER happened. Rod never came out on Stevie's stage. She came out on his stage but that dwindled as the tour went on. Clearly Rod is a bigger egomaniac than Stevie. If it really was a shared tour as they stated in the beginning (no opening acts) then you dont introduce someone. Rod should have sang Stevie's Leather and Lace in Stevie's set. He could not even sing it without reading the lyrics from the monitor word by word. It was pathetic. Seriously. They practiced for months and the lyrics to Leather and Lace are not that tough. IMHO being that they isolated from performing together in the later dates says a lot. Stevie was probably tired of his B.S. She was tricked into becoming an opening act for his ego.

[SteveMacD]

They bring up her induction into the Hall. But actually, what was she inducted for? What contributions to Rock or the struggle of equality for women artists did Stevie make or transcend as a solo artist before Tina, Diana, Cher, Pat Benatar, Kate Bush, Bonnie Raitt, Chaka did?
The induction featured a lot of talk about Fleetwood Mac and didn't pin down the solo music's enrichment of Rock music.
She's close with Irving. Somehow Irving's getting inducted this year.

Why isn’t Randy Bachman in the Hall? Between the Guess Who and BTO, he’s written some of the most legendary songs in rock’s history.

These Eyes
Undone
Laughing
No Time
American Woman
No Sugar Tonight/New Mother Nature
Takin’ Care of Business
Let It Ride
Roll On Down the Highway
You Ain’t Seen Nothing Yet

[soul_drifter333]

I agree moneywise and stardom. SN wins hands down. I do not even hate the messy lyrical turd of a new song she just put out.

But as a human being her actions followed by dishonesty have disgusted me. I'll take the other four playing a 2000-6000 seat arena any day of the week. BuckVie was truly a wonderful intimate experience for me. Christine coming back was to a record was such a beautiful surprise. I still listen to the album. It's a simple little gem. And then there was Mick's wonderful tribute to Peter Green concert. I loved that, too!

Musically, they don't need her. They don't even need her for money. The only thing they need her for is 20,000 seat filler. (ego) I'd also, argue she needs them or some other name to fill it. Money and ego can only go so far.

Yes! I attended the opening night for Buck/Mcvie and had front row in front of Chris. Before that I have seen her on the Dance but I was on the lawn so major different to be so close. To not only be so close but to get to hear 8 new songs and rarities was amazing (sorry Stevie too many new songs is NOT a bad thing) As far as the album, it did take me several plays to start to get it. There are so many intricate parts that it take several plays to hear. That's why I like it so much. If someone only listened to it a time or two I can see why they didn't care for it and so many people had attitude that Stevie wasn't on it so they couldn't be bothered. Lay Down For Free is my favorite Lindsey song and Love Is Here To Stay is really beautiful.

One thing that bothered me is most people on here butchered it. This is not a duet album, Stevie is not on it, only 10 songs, Stevie is not on it, the cover is bad, Stevie is not on it, too many effects and overdubs, Stevie is not on it, and many more complaints. Those same people are the ones that praise it today. It would be nice to be able to listen too something and have your own opinion and not be overwhelmed by so much negativity.

I do admit the cover is awful and could have been so much better. :p