Are you Team Lindsey or Team Fleetwood Mac? Who are u routing for in the lawsuit?

[Jondalar]

Are you Team Lindsey or Team Fleetwood Mac? Who are u routing for in the lawsuit?

[Jondalar]

I voted for Lindsey. He’s been vilified and treated badly too many times by this band. It’s time he fights back. I don’t this is over money. I think he is really hurt especially since he made them famous.

[Feather Blade]

FM77 said in another thread that a suit had already been settled months ago. There may be no need to support either side. It is all very confusing.

[Angel75]

FM77 said in another thread that a suit had already been settled months ago. There may be no need to support either side. It is all very confusing.

Search for the lawsuit online...its dated October 9th...its new and its real

[jwd]

DUH! Team Lindsey for the win! Clean their ungrateful clocks!

[BombaySapphire3]

Team Lindsey..hit these greedy old money grubbers right where it hurts.

[KenshiMaster16]

As much as I love this band and all its various rotating members and line-ups, the way they have treated Lindsey is unforgivable in my eyes. This entire era stinks to high heaven and makes me sick and I'm honestly more sad that other talented individuals like Mike and Neil got dragged into this mess. This entire farce is disgraceful and is ruining the bands legacy and image. It's a sad sad time to be a Mac fan.

[button-lip]

As much as I love this band and all its various rotating members and line-ups, the way they have treated Lindsey is unforgivable in my eyes. This entire era stinks to high heaven and makes me sick and I'm honestly more sad that other talented individuals like Mike and Neil got dragged into this mess. This entire farce is disgraceful and is ruining the bands legacy and image. It's a sad sad time to be a Mac fan.

Amen to that! This is no fun at all. It's sad, and I can't believe my favorite band is ending their legacy this way, just because of some stupid pettiness of one of its members. They all deserve to pay, but that won't make the situation easier.

[jwd]

DAMN, if we were the jury, Lindsey would win by...A LANDSLIDE!! :laugh:

20-0 as of right now!!!

[mitzo]

DAMN, if we were the jury, Lindsey would win by...A LANDSLIDE!! :laugh:

20-0 as of right now!!!
Without even hearing both sides! So exciting!!

[justcrazylove]

We have heard both sides, the CBS interview was what the band proffered, the RS article and subsequent court filings are Lindsey take. But no it appears the Mac appeasers are wanting them to have another chance to explain themselves. why? I thought you all believed that version of events?:rolleyes:

[mitzo]

We have heard both sides, the CBS interview was what the band proffered, the RS article and subsequent court filings are Lindsey take. But no it appears the Mac appeasers are wanting them to have another chance to explain themselves. why? I thought you all believed that version of events?:rolleyes:

We have not seen the band's response to the lawsuit. Could be full of juicy rebuttals to his statements.

[secondhandchain]

We have not seen the band's response to the lawsuit. Could be full of juicy rebuttals to his statements.

Tambourine b/witch will probably make up some awful lie.

[TheWildHeart67]

After reading the documents, watching the Music Cares speech and the Rolling Stone interview, I gotta be fair. Lindsey is right. I hope he wins. I'm sad Stevie is behind this.

[lilyfee]

I’m so glad we finally see Lindsey’s side of the story! While I’m not a Lindsey fan by any means, I hope he wins this fight because barring any new information they’ve treated him horribly.

[HomerMcvie]

Tambourine b/witch will probably make up some awful lie.

I think the world is catching on that $he and Dick are LYING SACKS OF SH*T.

[secondhandchain]

I think the world is catching on that $he and Dick are LYING SACKS OF SH*T.

I'm sure Neil and Mike are regretting their decision right about now. It's got to feel real awkward out there.

[button-lip]

I’m so glad we finally see Lindsey’s side of the story! While I’m not a Lindsey fan by any means, I hope he wins this fight because barring any new information they’ve treated him horribly.

Thank you for that! That's the thought process that any sane human being should have, right? They already had their chance to speak, and they decided to LIE.

Like you said, they have threated him horribly.

[button-lip]

I think the world is catching on that $he and Dick are LYING SACKS OF SH*T.

I'm so glad to see so many people on social media changing sides. :D

[DownOnRodeo]

By way of showing support for Lindsey I voted for "Team Lindsey" in this binary poll, but it needs to be said that:
- as soon as Stevie and the 25 or so other defendants made their choice to shaft Lindsey, there was never going to be any real winners in this (except for Stevie's fragile ego, the lawyers, and Neil's album sales)
- "Fleetwood Mac" (qua the legacy of its most successful and well-known iteration, the Rumours lineup) does not "win" from this, even if Lindsey's claims are all thrown out. Indeed, the whole gist of his Complaint is that he (alone) is fighting for that "Fleetwood Mac."

Although the Partnership four are the main defendants, the lawsuit is in essence primarily targeted at the band's managers, etc.; but it would have been difficult--in terms of contract law and paucity of evidence--to launch a case against them (maybe he could have done it, but the discovery period would have been much longer and the management and promotion companies etc. would have stalled endlessly).

[BlanketMan]

I'm sure Neil and Mike are regretting their decision right about now. It's got to feel real awkward out there.

They've both been in the business a long time. If (and that's a big if!) Stevie/Mick/Christine/John were up-front with MC and NF about LB's dismissal, bracing them for the inevitable legal wrangling that would take place, the new guys may be taking it in stride. It would be a different story if these were two twenty-somethings, new to the scene - surely these vets knew something like this was coming; I imagine (hope!) they are both good at compartmentalizing the background noise and just enjoying playing great music in front of big crowds again.

Then again, I'm one of those big LB *AND* NF fans who somehow wants both guys to live happily ever after! ;)

[DownOnRodeo]

I imagine (hope!) they are both good at compartmentalizing the background noise and just enjoying playing great music in front of big crowds again.

I imagine that is the case.
Neil even said in a recent interview that he was prepared to move on from this if "the **** hits the fan," so he definitely has a stoic perspective and isn't going to go to pieces over any of this. More likely it's a case of flog a few solo CDs, have some fun enjoying the playing and media circus, take the cash, and run.

[sasja]

Who needs bad concert reviews?
Not I, any longer! :lol::lol::lol:

[James Kirk]

Certain band members wanting to dump John when he was ill is beyond disgusting.

Team Lindsey all the way.

Hell, I might even make a Team Lindsey T-Shirt 😊

[sodascouts]

It's hard to root for someone when, as DOR has already stated, there are no real winners here.

I just want it to be settled and over as quickly as possible.

However, I did go ahead and pick Lindsey for this poll because I feel he is owed some redress.

[bombaysaffires]

I'm not routing for anyone; but I am rooting for the legacy of the Rumours5 which is really what is at stake.

[Feather Blade]

Not voting for either. There will be no real winners no matter what happens. Unless it is just the folks that want to hear about other people's dirty laundry. I suppose there will be a payoff for them.

[Buster]

No vote from me until more facts come out. This is not just about smirks and intro music. I think something more happened at MusiCares. Whether or not it warranted firing, I don’t know. I do know that FM handled this very poorly.
I refuse to accept one person’s side of the story as full truth.

The losers are the fans and the FM legacy. It’s hard to think of anyone as a real
winner.

[Buster]

I do think the band should immediately take SHN, MM, GOYW out of the setlist.

[Alison]

No vote from me either. We don't know all the facts....only heard basically one side. I'm afraid when all is said and done there will be no winner. Fleetwood Mac will have a destroyed legacy and be known for drama that they are famous for.

[Storms123]

I do think the band should immediately take SHN, MM, GOYW out of the setlist.

Begs the question, I’ve been thinking about it since yesterday’s news broke, do you think they do pull the songs out of the set list? Either way, would speak volumes. I am asking because I am genuinely curious as to people’s views too, don’t want to open a can of worms as to why “insert name” is an awful human being and deserves every bad thing he/she has coming to them. Honestly wanting to know what fans think

[sodascouts]

Maybe we should do a new topic for that.

They never should have put those in there in the first place, IMHO. They are just reminding people that Lindsey is gone when Neil attempts to sing those songs. I guess they felt four older and relatively obscure songs were enough, though, and the rest of the male leads are Lindsey's, so they went there (though perhaps a cover like Blue Letter would have been a better idea than songs Lindsey wrote about Stevie).

Plus, if their strategy is to pretend like this isn't happening, then they'll keep them in.

My guess is that we won't see a change.

[Buster]

Maybe we should do a new topic for that.

They never should have put those in there in the first place, IMHO. They are just reminding people that Lindsey is gone when Neil attempts to sing those songs. I guess they felt four older and relatively obscure songs were enough, though, and the rest of the male leads are Lindsey's, so they went there (though perhaps a cover like Blue Letter would have been a better idea than songs Lindsey wrote about Stevie).

Plus, if their strategy is to pretend like this isn't happening, then they'll keep them in.

My guess is that we won't see a change.

I agree - never should have been in there.

[Buster]

I will say that regardless of winner/loser in this mess, Lindsey has played this beautifully. Making this public right at the start of both of their tours and when Stevie hall of fame nomination is announced (although he may not have known about that).

His timing is perfect.

[Feather Blade]

Maybe we should do a new topic for that.

They never should have put those in there in the first place, IMHO. They are just reminding people that Lindsey is gone when Neil attempts to sing those songs. I guess they felt four older and relatively obscure songs were enough, though, and the rest of the male leads are Lindsey's, so they went there (though perhaps a cover like Blue Letter would have been a better idea than songs Lindsey wrote about Stevie).

Plus, if their strategy is to pretend like this isn't happening, then they'll keep them in.

My guess is that we won't see a change.

I agree, I think they will stay there as well. (mainly due to to the fact that set lists don't seem to change much with this crew once a tour starts) I wish they weren't playing them because that is three more slots that could have been filled with something cool we hadn't heard before or hadn't heard in a long time, but it is what it is; they weren't going to have a perfectly competent male singer and only use him for back-up and duets.

[jwd]

Without even hearing both sides! So exciting!!

Well, we already know they've perjured themselves. Lied about why they were going on without Lindsey. Then it turned out to be some other sensibilities that came into play. Lindsey smirked at me. We(Stevie) are unhappy. We've come to an impasse. Money rules! **** the guy who was instrumental in getting us here. We'll bring in my good friend Neil and Stevie's good friend Mike. **** Lindsey! They've been on trial for over 6 months now. The jury has a good handle on what's going on. What, 63-7 now. That's pretty indicative on the sentiments of where the fans' hearts lie.

[SorcererJP]

Begs the question, I’ve been thinking about it since yesterday’s news broke, do you think they do pull the songs out of the set list? Either way, would speak volumes. I am asking because I am genuinely curious as to people’s views too, don’t want to open a can of worms as to why “insert name” is an awful human being and deserves every bad thing he/she has coming to them. Honestly wanting to know what fans think

Isn't it so that Don Felder wrote the main part of the famous guitar solo in Hotel California? They will get booed when they won't play that !!

Same goes for songs like GOYW, these are concert-staples they ought to play! no matter who's in the band. They did that in 1988, 1990 and 1994 as well. No problems with that back then. Ok, don't try to impersonate the acoustic Big Love ... that's too much.

I'm on neither side BTW. Who should I choose? I choose for the music. This law-suit isn't about who's side your on or being in or out Fleetwood Mac, it's simply a conflict about employment aka MONEY !! And that makes him as greedy as the majority overhere thinks about Mick and/or Stevie ...

[sue]

Tambourine b/witch will probably make up some awful lie.

Then she’d be committing perjury, I think.
It’s one thing making up stories and bending the truth for the press.
But this is now going to the courts.

[estranged4life]

for awhile and did not know anything about a lawsuit until I saw about it on NBC this morning...Interesting.

[bwboy]

Well, we already know they've perjured themselves. Lied about why they were going on without Lindsey. Then it turned out to be some other sensibilities that came into play. Lindsey smirked at me. We(Stevie) are unhappy. We've come to an impasse. Money rules! **** the guy who was instrumental in getting us here. We'll bring in my good friend Neil and Stevie's good friend Mike. **** Lindsey! They've been on trial for over 6 months now. The jury has a good handle on what's going on. What, 63-7 now. That's pretty indicative on the sentiments of where the fans' hearts lie.

To be clear, they didn't perjure themselves... they weren't under oath when they were interviewed. There's a world of difference. They also made it very clear they weren't going to badmouth Lindsey and were deliberately vague about specific details during their interviews. They could have mentioned the so-called smirking during the interview and then shown it, but they didn't. With this lawsuit, of course the band will unearth anything to make Lindsey look bad, but then again, Lindsey will do the same thing to make FM look bad.

Wasn't there an odd picture from the MusiCares red carpet where Lindsey posed like Jesus on the cross? That picture seemed very unlike Lindsey, very crass and melodramatic and outrageous, and certainly made me think something major had happened that night between Lindsey and the band. Something more than a smirk set the band off that night, including Lindsey.

[BombaySapphire3]

I'm on neither side BTW. Who should I choose? I choose for the music. This law-suit isn't about who's side your on or being in or out Fleetwood Mac, it's simply a conflict about employment aka MONEY !! And that makes him as greedy as the majority overhere thinks about Mick and/or Stevie ...

They are all greedy but Lindsey or anyone else would be hard pressed to be as greedy as Mick. His avarice is so extreme it is cartoonish.

[lennonfan]

so essentially 9 out of 10 are on Team Lindsey, ya kinda gotta love it;)
I don't understand why Stevie fans don't think it was selfish of her not to phone in 3 tracks for a Mac record, she never even had to say boo to Lindsey since the handlers could have handled it all...give him 3 tracks, let him take 15 or so passes at it, choose 1 or hybrid a couple, whatever...and be done with it.
It would have thrilled millions of Mac fans and they would have gone out so well. I think it's also possible her well has run dry. BuckVie was a nice album and it would have worked as a Mac record with her breath on a few vocals. Just selfish behavior that has been apparent for several years now. I like Stevie, but feel she's behaved badly. I also understand she's mourning a few folks, so I have some understanding there too. All this sounds so unpleasant for everyone involved.

[sleepless child]

Lindsey is a pretty private person. For him to go to this length speaks volumes. He was wronged and tried and tried to talk to them and got nothing back.

After 40 years of working together and friendship and my goodness, what he and Stevie once were to each other. He finally came out swinging. Good for him. It's time for the curtain to be drawn back.

I hate it's come to this. Very sad.

[Jondalar]

Isn't it so that Don Felder wrote the main part of the famous guitar solo in Hotel California? They will get booed when they won't play that !!

Same goes for songs like GOYW, these are concert-staples they ought to play! no matter who's in the band. They did that in 1988, 1990 and 1994 as well. No problems with that back then. Ok, don't try to impersonate the acoustic Big Love ... that's too much.

I'm on neither side BTW. Who should I choose? I choose for the music. This law-suit isn't about who's side your on or being in or out Fleetwood Mac, it's simply a conflict about employment aka MONEY !! And that makes him as greedy as the majority overhere thinks about Mick and/or Stevie ...

If you think the lawsuit is only about money you are being naive. Lindsey is filthy rich. He doesn’t need it. He is hurt. He shaped the music and made these people stars and he is neither the leader of the band or the star of the band. However, he is the talent of the band and gets NO respect. Stevie is totally petty and Mick is the one who cares about money.

[HomerMcvie]

If you think the lawsuit is only about money you are being naive. Lindsey is filthy rich. He doesn’t need it. He is hurt. He shaped the music and made these people stars and he is neither the leader of the band or the star of the band. However, he is the talent of the band and gets NO respect. Stevie is totally petty and Mick is the one who cares about money.

THIS.IS.IT. He is what made them, and they just throw him under the bus. F*ck them. All four of them.

[annabellee]

I'm not routing, er, I mean rooting for any of them. I hope all of their success and happiness dries up and they die miserable, old and alone. Now I will just stick around here and watch this soap opera instead of that which was once a band that produced music that I cared about.

[Jondalar]

I'm not routing, er, I mean rooting for any of them. I hope all of their success and happiness dries up and they die miserable, old and alone. Now I will just stick around here and watch this soap opera instead of that which was once a band that produced music that I cared about.

It’s not Lindsey’s fault if all the members care about is money.

[FuzzyPlum]

I hope Lindsey wins by a rout.

[jwd]

To be clear, they didn't perjure themselves... they weren't under oath when they were interviewed.

:eek::eek: NO!!! Is that what perjury means? Thanks for clearing that up for me. :laugh: I know, it's hyperbole on my part. Just like calling this poll a vote by jury. I thought you had a better sense of humor than that! :p

However, I do believe this interview is admissible in court. Stevie said Lindsey wanted them to wait an exaggerated longer period of time to tour. According to his complaint, that's not true.

[bwboy]

:eek::eek: NO!!! Is that what perjury means? Thanks for clearing that up for me. :laugh: I know, it's hyperbole on my part. Just like calling this poll a vote by jury. I thought you had a better sense of humor than that! :p

Sorry, I genuinely thought you misspoke, I wasn't trying to be a jerk or condescending, so I apologize if it came out that way. You also weren't the only one to use that word. So hopefully we're all good :thumbsup:

[jwd]

Sorry, I genuinely thought you misspoke, I wasn't trying to be a jerk or condescending, so I apologize if it came out that way. You also weren't the only one to use that word. So hopefully we're all good :thumbsup:

Oh yeah, definitely! I think you are one of the most thoughtful and polite posters here.

[gldstwmn]

I don't know because we don't have all the facts yet.

[gldstwmn]

FM77 said in another thread that a suit had already been settled months ago. There may be no need to support either side. It is all very confusing.

I was confused by that too. This is a new suit though because it was just filed a few days ago.

[gldstwmn]

Without even hearing both sides! So exciting!!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::wavey::woohoo: Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[Feather Blade]

It’s not Lindsey’s fault if all the members care about is money.

So I guess he's bringing a lawsuit with the intention of being awarded vast amounts of artistic integrity? Perhaps he plans to give the huge settlement to charity? :confused: ;)

[gldstwmn]

We have not seen the band's response to the lawsuit. Could be full of juicy rebuttals to his statements.
I have a feeling it will be.

[gldstwmn]

By way of showing support for Lindsey I voted for "Team Lindsey" in this binary poll, but it needs to be said that:
- as soon as Stevie and the 25 or so other defendants made their choice to shaft Lindsey,
.

Ah yes. The Does. Who are they?

[gldstwmn]

They've both been in the business a long time. If (and that's a big if!) Stevie/Mick/Christine/John were up-front with MC and NF about LB's dismissal, bracing them for the inevitable legal wrangling that would take place, the new guys may be taking it in stride. It would be a different story if these were two twenty-somethings, new to the scene - surely these vets knew something like this was coming; I imagine (hope!) they are both good at compartmentalizing the background noise and just enjoying playing great music in front of big crowds again.

Then again, I'm one of those big LB *AND* NF fans who somehow wants both guys to live happily ever after! ;)

Tom and The Heartbreakers were involved in a very ugly lawsuit early in their career. Mike knows the drill. Neil seems like a steady Eddie kind of guy so I'm sure he's doing fine. This has nothing to do with him.

[gldstwmn]

Certain band members wanting to dump John when he was ill is beyond disgusting.

Team Lindsey all the way.

Hell, I might even make a Team Lindsey T-Shirt 😊

Just for context it's been speculated that might have been what John wanted.

[gldstwmn]

I'm not routing for anyone; but I am rooting for the legacy of the Rumours5 which is really what is at stake.

Too late. The myth has been shattered.

[gldstwmn]

Well, we already know they've perjured themselves.

They did? Fleetwood Mac has testified under oath and they lied? Just wishing it so doesn't make it true you know.

[gldstwmn]

I will say that regardless of winner/loser in this mess, Lindsey has played this beautifully. Making this public right at the start of both of their tours and when Stevie hall of fame nomination is announced (although he may not have known about that).

His timing is perfect.

Well he had to wait for the tour to actually happen before he could request damages. Which tells me he really wants the money. He could have filed sooner and FM could have said never mind we're not going on tour right now.

[saniette]

Well he had to wait for the tour to actually happen before he could request damages. Which tells me he really wants the money. He could have filed sooner and FM could have said never mind we're not going on tour right now.

I doubt Lindsey really needs the money. He's got the highest net worth of any of his former band members. In this world, unfortunately, money is the marker of value, for better or worse. So a lawsuit is really Lindsey's only option at this point to show his importance in FM.

[jwd]

They did? Fleetwood Mac has testified under oath and they lied? Just wishing it so doesn't make it true you know.

You really should read the whole thread before posting your usual 20 individual replies. I've already explained that. :rolleyes:

[gldstwmn]

Wasn't there an odd picture from the MusiCares red carpet where Lindsey posed like Jesus on the cross?
There's a whole set of provocative photos of him from that event.

[gldstwmn]

I doubt Lindsey really needs the money. He's got the highest net worth of any of his former band members. In this world, unfortunately, money is the marker of value, for better or worse. So a lawsuit is really Lindsey's only option at this point to show his importance in FM.

He wants the money.

[gldstwmn]

You really should read the whole thread before posting your usual 20 individual replies. I've already explained that. :rolleyes:

And you are?

[bwboy]

Oh yeah, definitely! I think you are one of the most thoughtful and polite posters here.

Thanks, jwd! I enjoy reading your posts. I'll be the first to admit I've gotten angry here and said/wrote things that weren't cool, but I realized this board is nothing to get angry about. I love reading reasonable posts here, it helps me see things from a different pov.

[jwd]

Thanks, jwd! I enjoy reading your posts. I'll be the first to admit I've gotten angry here and said/wrote things that weren't cool, but I realized this board is nothing to get angry about. I love reading reasonable posts here, it helps me see things from a different pov.


I think we're all guilty of that. Oh, by the way, you can call me Joe! :laugh: Looking forward to reading your posts. :wavey:

[secondhandchain]

He wants the money.

I disagree. He’s hurt and wants to make a huge point, do you blame him?
I would do the same thing.

[rhiannondontgo]

I disagree. He’s hurt and wants to make a huge point, do you blame him?
I would do the same thing.

I think it’s a little of both. His biggest motivation is definitely the money. That’s what the lawsuit is aiming at afterall, and he did state that he’s been trying (in private) to get the band to give him a cut of the proceeds or some other kind of settlement for about 8 months now.
But also, it’s gotta be somewhat about making his point and getting somebody to listen. If the band members won’t talk to him and management isn’t working with him, he probably thinks filing this suit is the only way to get them to respond and acknowledge him.

[gldstwmn]

I disagree. He’s hurt and wants to make a huge point, do you blame him?
I would do the same thing.

I've already said this is an emotional reaction. But he also wants the money. Frankly I don't think he should be paid for a tour he wasn't on.

[bombaysaffires]

I think it’s a little of both. His biggest motivation is definitely the money. That’s what the lawsuit is aiming at afterall, and he did state that he’s been trying (in private) to get the band to give him a cut of the proceeds or some other kind of settlement for about 8 months now.
But also, it’s gotta be somewhat about making his point and getting somebody to listen. If the band members won’t talk to him and management isn’t working with him, he probably thinks filing this suit is the only way to get them to respond and acknowledge him.

i also think it's about having been publicly humiliated and publicly accused of something he didn't do. He's got kids, old enough to understand what's going on, to see their dad treated this way. not saying it's his main motivation, but i think he has a certain amount of pride at stake as well in front of his family. :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

i also think it's about having been publicly humiliated and publicly accused of something he didn't do. He's got kids, old enough to understand what's going on, to see their dad treated this way. not saying it's his main motivation, but i think he has a certain amount of pride at stake as well in front of his family. :shrug:

What was he accused of that he didn't do?

[secondhandchain]

I've already said this is an emotional reaction. But he also wants the money. Frankly I don't think he should be paid for a tour he wasn't on.

if he had an oral contract for said tour he IS entitled to money. Maybe not the full amount but a nice amount. That was his main way of making money (not that he needs it) and they fired him. If the same thing happened to Stevie she would be entitled.

[sasja]

I doubt Lindsey really needs the money. He's got the highest net worth of any of his former band members. In this world, unfortunately, money is the marker of value, for better or worse. So a lawsuit is really Lindsey's only option at this point to show his importance in FM.

I keep thinking that it is not so much that Lindsey wants the money. It may be more that he doesn't want THEM to have it.

Or maybe that's just my personal projection :lol::lol::lol:

In any event. He is due restitution in some form or another. And you KNOW it'll never be given via apologies or common decency, so demanding financial justice is what 's still feasible.

[secondhandchain]

Lindsey is worth 80 million, he doesn't need the money. This is about what's right.

[TheWILDheart]

As a chiffonhead to the bone, I have to say that I support....

NEITHER.

They’re all egotistical assholes. Lindsey’s been a dick for years. Stevie is a drama queen to the point where Lindsey can’t even cough without her having a comment on it.

Mick has no loyalties to anyone as he’s proven time and time again. He treated Stevie like dirt during the BTM/Timespace era all over Silver Springs - because he wanted The Chain boxset to sell and make $$$.

Stevie has annoyed me so much over the last few years. She whined and whined about not making an album without Christine. Chris came back and she still wouldn’t do it because it wouldn’t sell. More money in touring. What happened to doing this for the love of it?

In Lindsey’s defence, he is a creative driving force and I have respect for him for trying to get the 5 back together for a new album.

In Stevie’s defence, I get that Lindsey is crazy controlling and egotistical.

Anyway rant over, they’re all as bad as each other.

[PoetofRhiannon]

I support Lindsey.
Still sad that FM would break up at this late stage in their careers and go on this tour with such a weird line-up...

I have a front row seat to see Lindsey in December.
Not going to FM.

[SteveMacD]

Mick has no loyalties to anyone as he’s proven time and time again. He treated Stevie like dirt during the BTM/Timespace era all over Silver Springs - because he wanted The Chain boxset to sell and make $$$.

Mick had no control over that. The label owns the rights to release the song, not the band. Only after a song or album has been out of print for ten years does that go back to the artist. WB reissued the song as a b-side to Don’t Stop in 1987. All Mick could do is not put it on The Chain, if that.

She could have re-recorded it, though.

[DownOnRodeo]

Mick had no control over that. The label owns the rights to release the song, not the band. Only after a song or album has been out of print for ten years does that go back to the artist. WB reissued the song as a b-side to Don’t Stop in 1987. All Mick could do is not put it on The Chain, if that.

She could have re-recorded it, though.

If this case ever goes to court, please let Steve Hopkins be called in as an expert witness for the defendant. :nod:

[SteveMacD]

I seriously doubt he’ll get his full tour income, since he didn’t actually play, but I bet he gets a cut of the merch, some damages, and will be part of any decisions regarding the work he was involved with. It’ll likely be settled in arbitration and we’ll never know any of the details.

Lindsey’s cause may have been hurt by the filing going public.

[SteveMacD]

If this case ever goes to court, please let Steve Hopkins be called in as an expert witness for the defendant. :nod:

I only know about this particular rule because it’s directly affected a friend of mine.

[David]

Mick had no control over that. The label owns the rights to release the song, not the band. Only after a song or album has been out of print for ten years does that go back to the artist. WB reissued the song as a b-side to Don’t Stop in 1987. All Mick could do is not put it on The Chain, if that.Even Lindsey sided with Mick, for the most part. But as I recall, Stevie was blaming Mick for not getting back to her in a timely fashion and for not communicating with her—exactly what Lindsey has said this year. Mick seems to handle weird requests in a very brusque, insensitive manner.

She could have re-recorded it, though.She'd have been just as likely to re-record all of Rumours.

[secondhandchain]

Even Lindsey sided with Mick, for the most part. But as I recall, Stevie was blaming Mick for not getting back to her in a timely fashion and for not communicating with her—exactly what Lindsey has said this year. Mick seems to handle weird requests in a very brusque, insensitive manner.

She'd have been just as likely to re-record all of Rumours.

Stevie likes to re record perfectly good songs in order to get back at Lindsey. Why the f did she re record Twister???? It's SO much better the way Lindsey produced it. If she had her way she would re record EVERY song LB produced. She's that much of a bitter old hag now.

[jbrownsjr]

Even Lindsey sided with Mick, for the most part. But as I recall, Stevie was blaming Mick for not getting back to her in a timely fashion and for not communicating with her—exactly what Lindsey has said this year. Mick seems to handle weird requests in a very brusque, insensitive manner.

She'd have been just as likely to re-record all of Rumours..


I had the very same thought.

[markolas]

As much as the extreme Stevie hate on here strikes me as hysterical, it’s obvious that FM (and Stevie in particular) look like the assholes here. So I hope LB wins.

That said, LB & SN have had a fraught and dysfunctional relationship for decades and it sounds like it’s best that they’re not in a band together. LB has been quite an asshole himself over the years and I totally believe that he smirked at Stevie’s speech (or whatever she says he did) and it set her off. That’s totally in character for him. But the way they all handled this was the definition of chickensh&t.

[secondhandchain]

As much as the extreme Stevie hate on here strikes me as hysterical, it’s obvious that FM (and Stevie in particular) look like the assholes here. So I hope LB wins.

That said, LB & SN have had a fraught and dysfunctional relationship for decades and it sounds like it’s best that they’re not in a band together. LB has been quite an asshole himself over the years and I totally believe that he smirked at Stevie’s speech (or whatever she says he did) and it set her off. That’s totally in character for him. But the way they all handled this was the definition of chickensh&t.

You do know that what Christine and Mick did was WAY worse right? They openly mocked her and danced behind her.

[FuzzyPlum]

You do know that what Christine and Mick did was WAY worse right? They openly mocked her and danced behind her.

The point is... she doesn't despise Mick or Chris.
It's not rational behaviour, but she hates him so much she has blinkered vision.

[jwd]

The point is... she doesn't despise Mick or Chris.
It's not rational behaviour, but she hates him so much she has blinkered vision.

I don't think she "hates" Lindsey or despises him. She's always wanted recognition from Lindsey, and I'd say she wanted that more from him than from anyone else in the band. When he acts disrespectful to her, it bothers her more. It bothers her A LOT! MusiCares is where it all came to a head, from a long history of her trying to get that respect. The instance of him not ever listening to Bella Donna would be an example. I also believe that Lindsey's involvement with Chris on the BuckVie record and tour irked her too. This fallout has been brewing for awhile, to say the least. I don't think it was any one thing or things that Lindsey did at MusiCares that was so horrible. It was just the trigger that made all these feelings surface in her. In someone who is in an unstable emotional mindset, still dealing with Tom's death.

[Villavic]

Frankly my dears I don’t give a damn. Though I recently started to listen Fleetwood Mac music again (it was like 4 months of mac protest silence at home and car), I’m still upset and so disappointed with these 5 people (yes, the 5 of them). This is not how the Fleetwood Mac legend should end (let’s face it, we don’t know when the last waltz will be danced, but we are sure it won’t be in 20 years).

And I don’t criticize you guys about voting in this poll, actually I love polls, but I’m tired of polarized teams. Politics, presidents, congress (my country is going through a political polarization like the one I see in the US), gender identity, etc., and now Fleetwood Mac? No way!

Have fun guys, my intention is not to be the Grinch spoling the thread. I just will pass, and wanted to tell why.

[bwboy]

Frankly my dears I don’t give a damn. Though I recently started to listen Fleetwood Mac music again (it was like 4 months of mac protest silence at home and car), I’m still upset and so disappointed with these 5 people (yes, the 5 of them). This is not how the Fleetwood Mac legend should end (let’s face it, we don’t know when the last waltz will be danced, but we are sure it won’t be in 20 years).

And I don’t criticize you guys about voting in this poll, actually I love polls, but I’m tired of polarized teams. Politics, presidents, congress (my country is going through a political polarization like the one I see in the US), gender identity, etc., and now Fleetwood Mac? No way!

Have fun guys, my intention is not to be the Grinch spoling the thread. I just will pass, and wanted to tell why.

:thumbsup:

[mitzo]

I am on neither team I guess. I am indifferent to Lindsey and his firing from the band. And, frankly. I also gave up on new FM music years ago and so none of it is an arrow through my heart as it seems to be to many on this forum. I do have a bit of a tingle imagining what details might emerge about his behavior leading to the firing, however.

[jwd]

91-9 in Lindsey's favor! :eek:

Not good for FM, if this even remotely reflects the opinion of the general public.

[WelshWitchPMD]

Just wanted to chime in and state that I am Team Lindsey all the way.

[Feather Blade]

91-9 in Lindsey's favor! :eek:

Not good for FM, if this even remotely reflects the opinion of the general public.

Pretty sure that even now there are far more than 100 people who are members of this board and several of the people that do still post already said they weren't taking sides. Further, the opinions of a pretty specific group of individuals won't at all be relevant to a reasoned examination of contract law. (and whatever else comes out from both sides during this whole mess) That will really be all that matters in the end.

[msLinds]

I voted a while back.I hope Lindsey wins his lawsuit he filed against the band.This is very sad situation with Lindsey and the band.I have been fan since the 1970's.I'm 60 years old.I wish the band and Stevie and Lindsey had sat down together, even privately and worked this out. Instead of just firing him.And completely refusing to talk to him or communicate with him. :wavey:

[Buster]

91-9 in Lindsey's favor! :eek:

Not good for FM, if this even remotely reflects the opinion of the general public.

I don’t think the group of people on this board which now seems to have whittled down to those who are borderline obsessed with the lawsuit (myself included) are anywhere close to representative of the general public. However, I think if people were told that Lindsey is suing because he was told he was fired for smirking and complaining about an intro song, and that FM’s only public statement was that they couldn’t come to terms about the tour, and that Lindsey refutes this statement, then overwhelming number would root for him.

If there is more to this story, which I continue to believe, FM needs to get it out there.

[justcrazylove]

Quite frankly, why should we believe the band at this point, they have lied numerous times to the fans, so a new statement will also be viewed in that context. Any justifications regarding firing Lindsey that isn't based around the sheer ego of Stevie is just not going to fly. Be honest, say she hates him, and they took her side due to the financial gains of a tour with her vs a tour with Lindsey. Be ****ing real.

[jwd]

Pretty sure that even now there are far more than 100 people who are members of this board and several of the people that do still post already said they weren't taking sides. Further, the opinions of a pretty specific group of individuals won't at all be relevant to a reasoned examination of contract law. (and whatever else comes out from both sides during this whole mess) That will really be all that matters in the end.

100+ is a good sample of Ledgies, especially of the number of people that actually post and show interest in the band here. I'd say if you did another sample of 100, you'd get the same result. Not to mention there are people in their personal lives that have the same sentiments. So it's not just here, but it's out there, in the media. What we've seen and heard from FM and Lindsey make most of us feel that he was wronged. Maybe we don't know the whole story. Maybe we never will. But, I feel that FM has a tarnished image in the eyes of many people, diehard and casual fans alike. So that is very relevant to the business of FM.


In the meantime we wait for the lawsuit to be settled one way or another. Let there be justice. But I'm not sure if there will be a real winner.

[jwd]

I don’t think the group of people on this board which now seems to have whittled down to those who are borderline obsessed with the lawsuit (myself included) are anywhere close to representative of the general public. However, I think if people were told that Lindsey is suing because he was told he was fired for smirking and complaining about an intro song, and that FM’s only public statement was that they couldn’t come to terms about the tour, and that Lindsey refutes this statement, then overwhelming number would root for him.

If there is more to this story, which I continue to believe, FM needs to get it out there.


Yes, and here we are. As far as the tour statement goes, we already know that was a lie. Were they protecting Lindsey or Stevie or the band by not dishing the real dirt? :shrug:

[jwd]

Quite frankly, why should we believe the band at this point, they have lied numerous times to the fans, so a new statement will also be viewed in that context. Any justifications regarding firing Lindsey that isn't based around the sheer ego of Stevie is just not going to fly. Be honest, say she hates him, and they took her side due to the financial gains of a tour with her vs a tour with Lindsey. Be ****ing real.


Probably wouldn't be justifiable cause to fire him in a court of law, especially with their volatile interpersonal relationships within the band, for MANY years.

[Feather Blade]

100+ is a good sample of Ledgies, especially of the number of people that actually post and show interest in the band here. I'd say if you did another sample of 100, you'd get the same result. Not to mention there are people in their personal lives that have the same sentiments. So it's not just here, but it's out there, in the media. What we've seen and heard from FM and Lindsey make most of us feel that he was wronged. Maybe we don't know the whole story. Maybe we never will. But, I feel that FM has a tarnished image in the eyes of many people, diehard and casual fans alike. So that is very relevant to the business of FM.


In the meantime we wait for the lawsuit to be settled one way or another. Let there be justice. But I'm not sure if there will be a real winner.

Yes, no real winners. Hence why some of us didn't vote for either.

[gldstwmn]

Yes, no real winners. Hence why some of us didn't vote for either.

There's no point (to me anyway) in voting in a rigged poll.

[jwd]

Yes, no real winners. Hence why some of us didn't vote for either.

We're voting for justice, not winners.

[jwd]

There's no point (to me anyway) in voting in a rigged poll.

And you would never vote TWICE in one of these rigged polls, would you?

[dontlookdown]

I’m so glad we finally see Lindsey’s side of the story! While I’m not a Lindsey fan by any means, I hope he wins this fight because barring any new information they’ve treated him horribly.

I've always been a Lindsey fan by all means.
Without Lindsey Buckingham, there would be no Fleetwood Mac/Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, Tusk, Live, Mirage, Tango In The Night, The Dance, or Say You Will.

Without Lindsey there would be no current tour, and this forum wouldn't exist.

[secondhandchain]

There's no point (to me anyway) in voting in a rigged poll.

Like you haven't spent half your day calling up people to vote! LOL Who would bother to rig a poll as silly as this. HA HA

[HomerMcvie]

Like you haven't spent half your day calling up people to vote! LOL Who would bother to rig a poll as silly as this. HA HA

Please don't feed the trolls...

[lovethemac1]

There's no point (to me anyway) in voting in a rigged poll.

Why in God’s name would someone care about rigging something as inconsequential as a poll on here? Unless you are paranoid, or have enough time on your hands to consider something so strange??

[secondhandchain]

Please don't feed the trolls...

I'm bored David! Either I'm crazy busy at work, or I have some down time. I'm in the down time period.

[HomerMcvie]

I'm bored David! Either I'm crazy busy at work, or I have some down time. I'm in the down time period.

Well I think you'll have your hands full of crazy here...:D

[DJM]

If i weren't putting money in Stevie's pocket, I'd buy tickets and wear my 'Camp Lindsey' Tshirt.

She makes me sick now. I threw out all of her cds that i had.

I no longer have an interest in her, her music or anything she says.

[Sugar Mouse]

THIS.IS.IT. He is what made them, and they just throw him under the bus. F*ck them. All four of them.

If Lindsey is the "talent of the band", then why has his solo career been so unsuccessful?

[saniette]

If Lindsey is the "talent of the band", then why has his solo career been so unsuccessful?

Well, his solo career is successful from a musical point of view, I think more successful in that regard than the other band members. I wasn't aware that commercial success was the only arbiter of artistic value, but that's a typical attitude on this board. I don't care how many sales an album has if it sounds like crap, like most of Stevie's later solo output. She chased commercial success often at the expense of the music, and now chart success is long past for her.

And Tusk wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Lindsey, and that album gives the band a lot of credibility nowadays, maybe more than the others. The rest of the band would have opted for Rumours II without him, and failed to even come close no doubt.

ETA: And does your argument mean that Neil Finn is untalented? I don't think his solo career is any more successful than Lindsey's, outside of New Zealand and Australia. Unless I missed him ever having a Top 10 single in the US or UK? At least Lindsey managed that.

[SteveMacD]

I don't think she "hates" Lindsey or despises him. She's always wanted recognition from Lindsey, and I'd say she wanted that more from him than from anyone else in the band. When he acts disrespectful to her, it bothers her more. It bothers her A LOT! MusiCares is where it all came to a head, from a long history of her trying to get that respect. The instance of him not ever listening to Bella Donna would be an example. I also believe that Lindsey's involvement with Chris on the BuckVie record and tour irked her too. This fallout has been brewing for awhile, to say the least. I don't think it was any one thing or things that Lindsey did at MusiCares that was so horrible. It was just the trigger that made all these feelings surface in her. In someone who is in an unstable emotional mindset, still dealing with Tom's death.

I think it’s beyond that. The boys walked on eggshells around Stevie when Christine was gone. Lindsey played along with the faux drama every step of the way. He brought in Mitchell Froom to get her to record with the band, even came up with music for Stevie, but she only agreed to do an EP.

Then Christine came back, and everything changed. Lindsey had an eager and willing partner, quit walking on eggshells, quit playing the game, and forgot why he played the game in the first place. The rest of the band made an album without her, it became awkward in the press, Lindsey made the unfortunate comment about doing a Fleetwood Mac show for the money for Azoff’s festivals, and had minimal interaction with Stevie during the shows. Then he smirked. They all did, but Mick and Christine have been supportive and have said nothing but glowing things about her in recent history, and when hasn’t John smirked?

Ironically, her desire to be a Heartbreaker may prove to be the thing that moves the band forward.

[Sugar Mouse]

Well, his solo career is successful from a musical point of view, I think more successful in that regard than the other band members. I wasn't aware that commercial success was the only arbiter of artistic value, but that's a typical attitude on this board. I don't care how many sales an album has if it sounds like crap, like most of Stevie's later solo output. She chased commercial success often at the expense of the music, and now chart success is long past for her.

And Tusk wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Lindsey, and that album gives the band a lot of credibility nowadays, maybe more than the others. The rest of the band would have opted for Rumours II without him, and failed to even come close no doubt.

ETA: And does your argument mean that Neil Finn is untalented? I don't think his solo career is any more successful than Lindsey's, outside of New Zealand and Australia. Unless I missed him ever having a Top 10 single in the US or UK? At least Lindsey managed that.

I was responding to folks on this forum saying that Lindsey was the talent of Fleetwood Mac and that's preposterous. By any standard, Lindsey Buckingham's solo career has been a near bust. He's had a few isolated good songs but that's about it. Listening to his Anthology reinforced that in my mind. Lindsey's talent is as a producer and arranger and guitarist but not as a songwriter. That's why his solo career never went anywhere despite being the "leader" of one of the biggest bands in the world. He's reliant on other songwriters to bring him the songs. That's why he was so much more successful in Fleetwood Mac ... because he had Christine and Stevie to write the songs and he would arrange and produce them until they sparkled. That's his gift. However, for folks on this forum to say that Lindsey was the talent of the band is so far from the truth it's pathetic. He was the production talent but Christine and Stevie were the songwriting talents. They needed each other. And that's why Stevie had a much more successful solo career than Lindsey. It's easier to find a producer once you have the great songs. It's much more difficult to write the songs if you're a great producer/arranger like Lindsey. That's why Stevie has sold about 11 million albums in her solo career and Lindsey nowhere close to that.

[Jondalar]

I was responding to folks on this forum saying that Lindsey was the talent of Fleetwood Mac and that's preposterous. By any standard, Lindsey Buckingham's solo career has been a near bust. He's had a few isolated good songs but that's about it. Listening to his Anthology reinforced that in my mind. Lindsey's talent is as a producer and arranger and guitarist but not as a songwriter. That's why his solo career never went anywhere despite being the "leader" of one of the biggest bands in the world. He's reliant on other songwriters to bring him the songs. That's why he was so much more successful in Fleetwood Mac ... because he had Christine and Stevie to write the songs and he would arrange and produce them until they sparkled. That's his gift. However, for folks on this forum to say that Lindsey was the talent of the band is so far from the truth it's pathetic. He was the production talent but Christine and Stevie were the songwriting talents. They needed each other. And that's why Stevie had a much more successful solo career than Lindsey. It's easier to find a producer once you have the great songs. It's much more difficult to write the songs if you're a great producer/arranger like Lindsey. That's why Stevie has sold about 11 million albums in her solo career and Lindsey nowhere close to that.

Stevie is smart. She is a networker. She picked great people to work with.

[dreamsunwind]

I was responding to folks on this forum saying that Lindsey was the talent of Fleetwood Mac and that's preposterous. By any standard, Lindsey Buckingham's solo career has been a near bust. He's had a few isolated good songs but that's about it. Listening to his Anthology reinforced that in my mind. Lindsey's talent is as a producer and arranger and guitarist but not as a songwriter. That's why his solo career never went anywhere despite being the "leader" of one of the biggest bands in the world. He's reliant on other songwriters to bring him the songs. That's why he was so much more successful in Fleetwood Mac ... because he had Christine and Stevie to write the songs and he would arrange and produce them until they sparkled. That's his gift. However, for folks on this forum to say that Lindsey was the talent of the band is so far from the truth it's pathetic. He was the production talent but Christine and Stevie were the songwriting talents. They needed each other. And that's why Stevie had a much more successful solo career than Lindsey. It's easier to find a producer once you have the great songs. It's much more difficult to write the songs if you're a great producer/arranger like Lindsey. That's why Stevie has sold about 11 million albums in her solo career and Lindsey nowhere close to that.

I don't think that's at all why his solo career never took off lol. Lindsey's written plenty of great songs on his own and his stuff got the critical praise that came from that. But the thing is that especially when it came to his solo career, he liked making (for lack of a better word) 'weird' music. He had very different tastes in terms of sounds and production and it just wasn't the type of thing that really appealed to a lot of people. If it was because he doesn't actually write good songs, his stuff would not have half the praise it's gotten. But it just requires a certain taste to appreciate. Stevie sold tons of albums because she wrote great songs (at least on her first 2 solo albums that is) that were also produced in a very radio-friendly, appeals to the masses way. She was also very popular just in her own 'entity' as Stevie Nicks and that played a big part in it.

[saniette]

I was responding to folks on this forum saying that Lindsey was the talent of Fleetwood Mac and that's preposterous. By any standard, Lindsey Buckingham's solo career has been a near bust. He's had a few isolated good songs but that's about it. Listening to his Anthology reinforced that in my mind. Lindsey's talent is as a producer and arranger and guitarist but not as a songwriter. That's why his solo career never went anywhere despite being the "leader" of one of the biggest bands in the world. He's reliant on other songwriters to bring him the songs. That's why he was so much more successful in Fleetwood Mac ... because he had Christine and Stevie to write the songs and he would arrange and produce them until they sparkled. That's his gift. However, for folks on this forum to say that Lindsey was the talent of the band is so far from the truth it's pathetic. He was the production talent but Christine and Stevie were the songwriting talents. They needed each other. And that's why Stevie had a much more successful solo career than Lindsey. It's easier to find a producer once you have the great songs. It's much more difficult to write the songs if you're a great producer/arranger like Lindsey. That's why Stevie has sold about 11 million albums in her solo career and Lindsey nowhere close to that.

Lindsey does have the largest influence on their sound, in terms of production, arrangement, etc. You even seem to concede that point, so you're saying his songwriting ability is lacking? That's completely subjective, but to say Stevie is a great songwriter is pathetic. She has written some absolutely atrocious lyrics, and requires way too much assistance in the music department.

For example, "Stand Back" is really not a very good song at all. It was successful because Stevie was catering to the sound of the times, with Prince allegedly coming up with the synth line. By her own admittance, she was trying to write a song like "Little Red Corvette" (and she nicked the Police for the riff to EOS). I think that's really the reason she was more successful at the end of the day, because her music was trying to fit in with the sound of the times.

But for you to claim that Lindsey is an inferior songwriter is ridiculous. He never blatantly chased eighties success like Stevie, which might partly explain his lack of success. His music is a little more esoteric as well.

I love Stevie's work at her best, probably more than Lindsey at his best, but her solo career taken as a whole is pretty spotty. Personally, I think Lindsey's solo career holds up better, and I'm comparing the actual music not album sales. All 6 of his albums are good to great, but she's got some real duds. And his latest work is far better than her latest stuff. And he doesn't need someone else to write the music, produce, arrange, and play all the instruments.

[secondhandchain]

I was responding to folks on this forum saying that Lindsey was the talent of Fleetwood Mac and that's preposterous. By any standard, Lindsey Buckingham's solo career has been a near bust. He's had a few isolated good songs but that's about it. Listening to his Anthology reinforced that in my mind. Lindsey's talent is as a producer and arranger and guitarist but not as a songwriter. That's why his solo career never went anywhere despite being the "leader" of one of the biggest bands in the world. He's reliant on other songwriters to bring him the songs. That's why he was so much more successful in Fleetwood Mac ... because he had Christine and Stevie to write the songs and he would arrange and produce them until they sparkled. That's his gift. However, for folks on this forum to say that Lindsey was the talent of the band is so far from the truth it's pathetic. He was the production talent but Christine and Stevie were the songwriting talents. They needed each other. And that's why Stevie had a much more successful solo career than Lindsey. It's easier to find a producer once you have the great songs. It's much more difficult to write the songs if you're a great producer/arranger like Lindsey. That's why Stevie has sold about 11 million albums in her solo career and Lindsey nowhere close to that.

WRONG mick. Of course they all had talents but LB had it all. GREAT songwriter , great producer and great performer. Mick shouldnt you be counting your money somewhere?

[HomerMcvie]

Lindsey does have the largest influence on their sound, in terms of production, arrangement, etc. You even seem to concede that point, so you're saying his songwriting ability is lacking? That's completely subjective, but to say Stevie is a great songwriter is pathetic. She has written some absolutely atrocious lyrics, and requires way too much assistance in the music department.

For example, "Stand Back" is really not a very good song at all. It was successful because Stevie was catering to the sound of the times, with Prince allegedly coming up with the synth line. By her own admittance, she was trying to write a song like "Little Red Corvette" (and she nicked the Police for the riff to EOS). I think that's really the reason she was more successful at the end of the day, because her music was trying to fit in with the sound of the times.

But for you to claim that Lindsey is an inferior songwriter is ridiculous. He never blatantly chased eighties success like Stevie, which might partly explain his lack of success. His music is a little more esoteric as well.

I love Stevie's work at her best, probably more than Lindsey at his best, but her solo career taken as a whole is pretty spotty. Personally, I think Lindsey's solo career holds up better, and I'm comparing the actual music not album sales. All 6 of his albums are good to great, but she's got some real duds. And his latest work is far better than her latest stuff. And he doesn't need someone else to write the music, produce, arrange, and play all the instruments.
Thank you! Stevie may have been a decent lyric writer, FORTY YEARS AGO, but please don't confuse the dolt with a musician, composer, or producer. Lindsey wears ALL of those hats.

She was fitting into the times, in the 80's, and did very well out of the gate. Her first two albums established her. Then her songwriting, singing, production, and drug consumption took her straight into the sh*tter.

Lindsey is a perfectly fine songwriter. Just because he doesn't pray to "the commercial gods" like some other idiot, doesn't make his work any less valuable. Perhaps it's more valuable, for anyone who can think outside of pure sales(which is what 90% of $tevie fans tend to do).

FM would have died 30 years ago, if it weren't for Lindsey's vision. Anyone who doesn't agree is an idiot. :woohoo:

[HomerMcvie]

WRONG mick. Of course they all had talents but LB had it all. GREAT songwriter , great producer and great performer. Mick shouldnt you be counting your money somewhere?

I wonder what kind of cut Mick gets for doing all this promo work here?


Hopefully some extra brain cells and a SPINE. Since he apparently lost his in a farm(goat) accident.

[bwboy]

I don't think that's at all why his solo career never took off lol. Lindsey's written plenty of great songs on his own and his stuff got the critical praise that came from that. But the thing is that especially when it came to his solo career, he liked making (for lack of a better word) 'weird' music. He had very different tastes in terms of sounds and production and it just wasn't the type of thing that really appealed to a lot of people. If it was because he doesn't actually write good songs, his stuff would not have half the praise it's gotten. But it just requires a certain taste to appreciate. Stevie sold tons of albums because she wrote great songs (at least on her first 2 solo albums that is) that were also produced in a very radio-friendly, appeals to the masses way. She was also very popular just in her own 'entity' as Stevie Nicks and that played a big part in it.

I think this is pretty spot on, dreamsunwind. I agree that Lindsey's sounds and productions don't always have mass appeal, and would add that sometimes his style can even turn people off. His music style kind of reminds me of David Lynch- incredibly well made but not made for everybody.

Also, I've noticed what seems to be a criticism about Stevie that I take to be one of her strengths- her willingness to work with other people and to record songs written by other people. As opposed to Lindsey, who is seemingly less willing to work with other people or record songs written by other people. I have often felt that Lindsey has shortchanged himself by choosing to isolate himself, musically. I know he's written some songs that were recorded by other artists, and produced other people, but I've always thought it would be interesting to see a couple of his songs produced by someone else.

[DownOnRodeo]

As far as songwriting goes,
Lindsey has simply gotten better with age, like a fine cheese.
Stevie, on the other hand, has apparently soured and gone off.

[Peestie]

I think this is pretty spot on, dreamsunwind. I agree that Lindsey's sounds and productions don't always have mass appeal, and would add that sometimes his style can even turn people off. His music style kind of reminds me of David Lynch- incredibly well made but not made for everybody.

Also, I've noticed what seems to be a criticism about Stevie that I take to be one of her strengths- her willingness to work with other people and to record songs written by other people. As opposed to Lindsey, who is seemingly less willing to work with other people or record songs written by other people. I have often felt that Lindsey has shortchanged himself by choosing to isolate himself, musically. I know he's written some songs that were recorded by other artists, and produced other people, but I've always thought it would be interesting to see a couple of his songs produced by someone else.
Lindsey clearly likes to write things himself to his own vision, but almost all of his albums include a cover. L&O has 3, OOTC has 2, UTS has 2 and SWS has 1. Plus there are some unrelease Rolling Stones covers meant for the original version of GOS.

As for Lindsey's writing, I think it is the best of the three for my personal taste. Sometimes the song itself is bare-bones but still is interesting within the track. But even Lindsey does consider himself a "stylist" (or something to that effect) more than a writer. His work is a composite of all aspects from recording, writing and production to create a single work. Each element is integral to the whole. That's something Stevie would never do and wouldn't be right for the kind of artist she is. Nothing wrong with either approach, though I much prefer Lindsey's.

[NotonRodeo]

Stevie needs to cover the songs of other people because she now can't write a decent song on her own :D

[NotonRodeo]

I was responding to folks on this forum saying that Lindsey was the talent of Fleetwood Mac and that's preposterous. By any standard, Lindsey Buckingham's solo career has been a near bust. He's had a few isolated good songs but that's about it. Listening to his Anthology reinforced that in my mind. Lindsey's talent is as a producer and arranger and guitarist but not as a songwriter. That's why his solo career never went anywhere despite being the "leader" of one of the biggest bands in the world. He's reliant on other songwriters to bring him the songs. That's why he was so much more successful in Fleetwood Mac ... because he had Christine and Stevie to write the songs and he would arrange and produce them until they sparkled. That's his gift. However, for folks on this forum to say that Lindsey was the talent of the band is so far from the truth it's pathetic. He was the production talent but Christine and Stevie were the songwriting talents. They needed each other. And that's why Stevie had a much more successful solo career than Lindsey. It's easier to find a producer once you have the great songs. It's much more difficult to write the songs if you're a great producer/arranger like Lindsey. That's why Stevie has sold about 11 million albums in her solo career and Lindsey nowhere close to that.

Stevie has sold more albums than Lindsey frankly because there is a very large number of people out there who think twirling, frequent shawl changing, ad lib screaming, talking nonstop in between songs, or meaningless evocation of words in songs like "angel" (Angel, Sleeping Angel, Desert Angel, etc.), "child", "gypsy,", "dreams," is music. Well it is not. In a way watching her is riveting performance art, and she does know how to put on a persona, but that's it--a persona, a very hollow, insubstantial one at that. Whereas to appreciate Lindsey one has to actually know something about music, and not many people nowadays have the musical training, or the taste, to do so.

Even for an alleged masterpiece [sic] like Bella Donna, one has to disconnect oneself from reality and enter her very strange mental universe--even then she was solipsistic and self-absorbed. The songs have reference only to her feelings, and nothing else. The world does not need to exist in her songs. Dreams indeed.

[bwboy]

Stevie has sold more albums than Lindsey frankly because there is a very large number of people out there who think twirling, frequent shawl changing, ad lib screaming, talking nonstop in between songs, or meaningless evocation of words in songs like "angel" (Angel, Sleeping Angel, Desert Angel, etc.), "child", "gypsy,", "dreams," is music.

I do think Lindsey would be more commercially viable if he would twirl more :laugh:

[FuzzyPlum]

I do think Lindsey would be more commercially viable if he would twirl more :laugh:

Neil Finn does a lot of twirling, so I see. Stevie's been choreographing with him.

[NotonRodeo]

Neil Finn does a lot of twirling, so I see. Stevie's been choreographing with him.

I shudder at the thought of him bringing out a cape and twirling the next time he sings Fall at Your Feet or Better Be Home Soon at his own shows.

Heh, he can sing Six Months in a Leaky Boat about his experiences with Fleetwood Mac :D

[DownOnRodeo]

Go on easy on our esteemed friend Sugar Mouse--he is only throwing undue shade at Lindsey's solo career because he's bitter that his thread in the Present Band forum celebrating Neil Finn's solo career sunk like a stone.

[David]

If Lindsey is the "talent of the band", then why has his solo career been so unsuccessful?

Your idea is that talent is a function of commercial success? Talent is directly proportional to sales?

So if you look at the list of the biggest movie box office grossers in Variety, that's your list of the best movies ever made? Isn't that really your approach taken to its logical conclusion?

Rihanna (https://rocnation.com/rihanna/) has sold multimillions more than Fleetwood Mac. By your account, is she therefore the greater artist?

Paul Westerberg never sold multimillions, but I've never known anyone who didn't think he was a hell of a songwriter.

Sales in any popular art is a dubious criterion of quality (leaving aside for the moment that the measure of quality in any art is subjective).

P.S. I love Rihanna!
P.P.S. Almost everyone in Fleetwood Mac over the decades seems to have had different talents. Many were great instrumentalists, a few were great vocalists, several were great songwriters, a few were envelope pushers and audience challengers, some were good at looking good (which is important in rock), and one was a great drummer.

[Buster]

Stevie has sold more albums than Lindsey frankly because there is a very large number of people out there who think twirling, frequent shawl changing, ad lib screaming, talking nonstop in between songs, or meaningless evocation of words in songs like "angel" (Angel, Sleeping Angel, Desert Angel, etc.), "child", "gypsy,", "dreams," is music. Well it is not. In a way watching her is riveting performance art, and she does know how to put on a persona, but that's it--a persona, a very hollow, insubstantial one at that. Whereas to appreciate Lindsey one has to actually know something about music, and not many people nowadays have the musical training, or the taste, to do so.

Even for an alleged masterpiece [sic] like Bella Donna, one has to disconnect oneself from reality and enter her very strange mental universe--even then she was solipsistic and self-absorbed. The songs have reference only to her feelings, and nothing else. The world does not need to exist in her songs. Dreams indeed.

What a huge massive stinking load of BS.

[gldstwmn]

We're voting for justice, not winners.

Then maybe you want to hear both sides of the story first? :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

And you would never vote TWICE in one of these rigged polls, would you?

If everyone else is wtf not? :angel:

[gldstwmn]

Like you haven't spent half your day calling up people to vote! LOL Who would bother to rig a poll as silly as this. HA HA

I rarely talk on the phone. I dislike it. However I will be donating some of my time to do just that for the election in November.

[gldstwmn]

Why in God’s name would someone care about rigging something as inconsequential as a poll on here? Unless you are paranoid, or have enough time on your hands to consider something so strange??

There are people who are going to vote in this poll and people who are not going to vote in this poll. The results will be skewed.

[gldstwmn]

If Lindsey is the "talent of the band", then why has his solo career been so unsuccessful?

Amen. :angel:

[gldstwmn]

Stevie is smart. She is a networker. She picked great people to work with.

Well to be fair Paul Fishkin picked Jimmy Iovine. And the rest as they say is history.

[gldstwmn]

As far as songwriting goes,
Lindsey has simply gotten better with age, like a fine cheese.


Well he certainly stinks but some still think he tastes good. :laugh:

[secondhandchain]

We know you don’t like songs that go out of a 3 note range

[secondhandchain]

Amen. :angel:

Do you really think it’s all about sales? His solo career didn’t go down the pop route. He is critically acclaimed and I love his stuff. That’s enough for me.

[bombaysaffires]

Stevie needs to cover the songs of other people because she now can't write a decent song on her own :D


Well both Stevie and Jimmy both have said in interviews that he was constantly on the lookout for hit singles for her-- i.e. songs written by other people. And even Fishkin said they were looking for mainstream songs to make her a commercial success so they guys in the audience would like her.

So her notion that her success is all due to her own innate talents is well misguided. Her career was a PRODUCT which she and others actively crafted.

It's always interesting that she was okay with changing her songs and her musical style to what all these OTHER men told her to, but if Lindsey, who was the one who originally helped make her songs better said one thing to her she went off about him messing with her songs. Total hypocrisy. She was irrational about his inputs and let her emotions get in the way -- except when she got really stuck, then suddenly she needed his help and knew she could manipulate him and be all nice and he'd cave.

[jwd]

I think it’s beyond that. The boys walked on eggshells around Stevie when Christine was gone. Lindsey played along with the faux drama every step of the way. He brought in Mitchell Froom to get her to record with the band, even came up with music for Stevie, but she only agreed to do an EP.

Then Christine came back, and everything changed. Lindsey had an eager and willing partner, quit walking on eggshells, quit playing the game, and forgot why he played the game in the first place. The rest of the band made an album without her, it became awkward in the press, Lindsey made the unfortunate comment about doing a Fleetwood Mac show for the money for Azoff’s festivals, and had minimal interaction with Stevie during the shows. Then he smirked. They all did, but Mick and Christine have been supportive and have said nothing but glowing things about her in recent history, and when hasn’t John smirked?

Ironically, her desire to be a Heartbreaker may prove to be the thing that moves the band forward.


Hey! Essentially we agree! No argument from me.

[jwd]

Stevie needs to cover the songs of other people because she now can't write a decent song on her own :D


In all honesty I would love for her to get back that magic songwriting talent she had in the 70s. Where to my ears, everything she did was golden. There wasn't anything she wrote that I didn't like. Unfortunately I don't believe she is even close to being the writer she once was.

[jwd]

Then maybe you want to hear both sides of the story first? :shrug:

I believe in due process and that everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

As far as this poll goes it merely reflects our feelings based on what we know now. Of course that could change if something else comes to light. And you understand that this poll does not constitute anything legally binding concerning FM. Most of us understand that it wouldn't be worth voting twice in a poll like this to skew the results. ?????

[gldstwmn]

And you understand that this poll does not constitute anything legally binding concerning FM.

Absolutely. It's just another opportunity to have a go at Stevie.

[jwd]

Absolutely. It's just another opportunity to have a go at Stevie.

It's an opportunity to express our feelings. A lot of the people voting in Lindsey's favor are or were big Stevie fans. It's how we see it.

I actually feel sympathy for her. I'm sure that Tom's death was a huge loss. I get that she is in her twilight hours, not just in rock and roll, but in life. I don't begrudge her wanting to be happy. I'm about 15 years younger than she is and I can relate to wanting to be happy and not having to deal with the unnecessary BS that life hands you sometimes. Maybe she could've taken a different course concerning Lindsey's firing.

[Sugar Mouse]

Do you really think it’s all about sales? His solo career didn’t go down the pop route. He is critically acclaimed and I love his stuff. That’s enough for me.

Sorry but Lindsey's solo albums have not been critically acclaimed. AllMusic is the gold standard website for album reviews and his solo albums have all gotten 3 1/2 or 4 stars out of 5. Thus, they have all been reviewed as solid but not great albums. Great albums on AllMusic receive 4 1/2 or 5 stars and none of his solo albums have done that. Stevie Nicks, on the other hand, has had two solo albums that received 4 1/2 stars from AllMusic. Lindsey has obviously been fantastic in his work with Fleetwood Mac with three 5 star albums.

[saniette]

Sorry but Lindsey's solo albums have not been critically acclaimed. AllMusic is the gold standard website for album reviews and his solo albums have all gotten 3 1/2 or 4 stars out of 5. Thus, they have all been reviewed as solid but not great albums. Great albums on AllMusic receive 4 1/2 or 5 stars and none of his solo albums have done that. Stevie Nicks, on the other hand, has had two solo albums that received 4 1/2 stars from AllMusic. Lindsey has obviously been fantastic in his work with Fleetwood Mac with three 5 star albums.

You really aren't going to let this go are you? For all your complaints about this board, you come in here and make a blatantly provocative statement about Lindsey's talent, and you think that's okay.

AllMusic is hardly the "gold standard" for album reviews. It's still just one reviewer's opinion of each album. I read a lot of music review websites, and plenty of people take issue with AllMusic ratings. I disagree with their ratings of individual albums quite a bit myself.

Metacritic might be more useful, as it aggregates all reviews for an album. Granted, only Lindsey's and Stevie's recent work is included, but Lindsey's average rating is 75, and Stevie's is below 70. Stevie has one great album, her first one, and then it drops off for her. Lindsey's talent hasn't dropped off as sharply, and his recent albums are far better than hers.

For what's it worth, there is no way 24 Karat Gold is a 4 1/2 star album.

[Sugar Mouse]

You really aren't going to let this go are you? For all your complaints about this board, you come in here and make a blatantly provocative statement about Lindsey's talent, and you think that's okay.

AllMusic is hardly the "gold standard" for album reviews. It's still just one reviewer's opinion of each album. I read a lot of music review websites, and plenty of people take issue with AllMusic ratings. I disagree with their ratings of individual albums quite a bit myself.

Metacritic might be more useful, as it aggregates all reviews for an album. Granted, only Lindsey's and Stevie's recent work is included, but Lindsey's average rating is 75, and Stevie's is below 70. Stevie has one great album, her first one, and then it drops off for her. Lindsey's talent hasn't dropped off as sharply, and his recent albums are far better than hers.

For what's it worth, there is no way 24 Karat Gold is a 4 1/2 star album.

I never said anything about Lindsey's talent. He is extraordinarily talented as a producer, arranger, and guitarist. I was responding to folks on this forum who are posting that Lindsey was the only talent in the band and that's ridiculous. The members needed each others talents. Stevie and Christine are great songwriters. Lindsey is a great producer/arranger. And together they made great music. As far as Lindsey's solo career, it's been a very mixed bag of well-produced, well-performed albums with very hit and miss songwriting. Stevie's solo albums have had great songs with hit and miss production. They're obviously much better together than apart.

[secondhandchain]

You really aren't going to let this go are you? For all your complaints about this board, you come in here and make a blatantly provocative statement about Lindsey's talent, and you think that's okay.

AllMusic is hardly the "gold standard" for album reviews. It's still just one reviewer's opinion of each album. I read a lot of music review websites, and plenty of people take issue with AllMusic ratings. I disagree with their ratings of individual albums quite a bit myself.

Metacritic might be more useful, as it aggregates all reviews for an album. Granted, only Lindsey's and Stevie's recent work is included, but Lindsey's average rating is 75, and Stevie's is below 70. Stevie has one great album, her first one, and then it drops off for her. Lindsey's talent hasn't dropped off as sharply, and his recent albums are far better than hers.

For what's it worth, there is no way 24 Karat Gold is a 4 1/2 star album.

Metacritic is the gold standard and he’s got great reviews on that site.

[Sugar Mouse]

Metacritic is the gold standard and he’s got great reviews on their

Lindsey's overall solo career Metacritic score is 76 which falls in the "generally favorable" range. Thus, solid but not great solo albums.

[HomerMcvie]

Metacritic is the gold standard and he’s got great reviews on their

Not according to Sugar Mick! :lol:

[elle]

to insert some much needed positivity here:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey <a href="https://twitter.com/LBuckingham?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@LBuckingham</a>, just a GREAT show in DC tonight! Loved all the positive energy in that room tonight. You’re a class act. It’s was special to be a part of it. Thanks!l <a href="https://t.co/BO2bSctva7">pic.twitter.com/BO2bSctva7</a></p>&mdash; Tom Fitzgerald (@FitzFox5DC) <a href="https://twitter.com/FitzFox5DC/status/1053488912323239942?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[David]

Sorry but Lindsey's solo albums have not been critically acclaimed. It behooves you to scan through the Blue Letter Archives on the Penguin to see the tip of the iceberg of widespread critical opinion about Lindsey's solo work. Estimation of his body of work is high, indeed, from American critics.

AllMusic is the gold standard website for album reviews and his solo albums have all gotten 3 1/2 or 4 stars out of 5.What makes AllMusic the gold standard? I've never heard it put that way. It's an expedient, convenient go-to for reviews, and Stephen Erlewine is an intelligent reviewer. But I'm not following how convenience and sense necessarily make for a reviewing gold standard. American newspaper and magazine critics (with whom I'm most familiar) who have nothing to do with AllMusic have amused and enlightened generations of pop and rock fans, and have helped shape the face of an art form (criticism, not music).

Who in his right mind would put AllMusic as a critical standard ahead of Bob Christgau, Lester Bangs, Greil Marcus, J.D. Considine, Steve Pond, Steve Simels, Noel Coppage, Stephen Holden, Connie Johnson, Cameron Crowe, John Rockwell, Bob Hilburn, Kristine McKenna, Joel Selvin, Dave Marsh, John Swenson, Gary Graff, Sylvie Simmons, Jon Landau, Bob Palmer, Joel Selvin, Ben Fong-Torres, and I could go on and on (incidentally, I rattle off this list of excellent critics by memory, and I could, with time, rattle off the publications they wrote for and even quote from many of their Fleetwood Mac reviews).

Lindsey's reputation has always been one of critic's pet; Stevie's has never been that (although an occasional outlier jumps on her bandwagon, like Jancee Dunn or Dennis Hunt). He is the critical darling; she is the arena filler and album seller—that's one of those truths that Fleetwood fans learn early on in their reading about the band. Your total ignorance of that commonplace truth (really, it's a cliché) lends me to believe even more than I already did that you are very new to the Mac fan "community." Of course, if I'm wrong, you'll forgive me.

Check out No. 36 (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/50-best-albums-of-2017-123296/lindsey-buckingham-christine-mcvie-lindsey-buckingham-christine-mcvie-124763/) in this list of the 50 best of 2017 from the Rolling Stone staff.

[secondhandchain]

Lindsey's overall solo career Metacritic score is 76 which falls in the "generally favorable" range. Thus, solid but not great solo albums.

oh please Mick. He is highly regarded by anyone who knows anything about music. Now go buy some more scarves.

[David]

As far as Lindsey's solo career, it's been a very mixed bag of well-produced, well-performed albums with very hit and miss songwriting. Mind my asking for examples of bad songwriting on his solo albums? I know he has certainly written some clunkers, but I want to get a better grasp on your taste.

Stevie's solo albums have had great songs with hit and miss production. What in your opinion are some of Stevie's great songs?

They're obviously much better together than apart. That's kinda the reason for all the drama on the board lately.

[secondhandchain]

Mind my asking for examples of bad songwriting on his solo albums? I know he has certainly written some clunkers, but I want to get a better grasp on your taste.

What in your opinion are some of Stevie's great songs?

That's kinda the reason for all the drama on the board lately.

Yup. Mick (sugar M) listen, most of us used to be big Stevie fans. I love her early solo work, and adore her work on the first 3 mac albums. I hung in there and was forgiving of the subsequent solo albums. but I started cringing when i heard her vocals on Rock a little. After Mirage she was hit and miss. I did however love a lot of In your Dreams. Lindsey for me has had a much more consistent quality of material in his solo career, and has only gotten better IMO. The real reason I can't stand Stevie? I started noticing a few years ago in her interviews that she would say stuff that really rubbed me the wrong way. Then she refused to record with FM. Then she would be all over the place with why she didn't like to record. She lies... a lot. So when she got LB fired? DEAD.TO.ME.

[Sugar Mouse]

It behooves you to scan through the Blue Letter Archives on the Penguin to see the tip of the iceberg of widespread critical opinion about Lindsey's solo work. Estimation of his body of work is high, indeed, from American critics.

What makes AllMusic the gold standard? I've never heard it put that way. It's an expedient, convenient go-to for reviews, and Stephen Erlewine is an intelligent reviewer. But I'm not following how convenience and sense necessarily make for a reviewing gold standard. American newspaper and magazine critics (with whom I'm most familiar) who have nothing to do with AllMusic have amused and enlightened generations of pop and rock fans, and have helped shape the face of an art form (criticism, not music).

Who in his right mind would put AllMusic as a critical standard ahead of Bob Christgau, Lester Bangs, Greil Marcus, J.D. Considine, Steve Pond, Steve Simels, Noel Coppage, Stephen Holden, Connie Johnson, Cameron Crowe, John Rockwell, Bob Hilburn, Kristine McKenna, Joel Selvin, Dave Marsh, John Swenson, Gary Graff, Sylvie Simmons, Jon Landau, Bob Palmer, Joel Selvin, Ben Fong-Torres, and I could go on and on (incidentally, I rattle off this list of excellent critics by memory, and I could, with time, rattle off the publications they wrote for and even quote from many of their Fleetwood Mac reviews).

Lindsey's reputation has always been one of critic's pet; Stevie's has never been that (although an occasional outlier jumps on her bandwagon, like Jancee Dunn or Dennis Hunt). He is the critical darling; she is the arena filler and album seller—that's one of those truths that Fleetwood fans learn early on in their reading about the band. Your total ignorance of that commonplace truth (really, it's a cliché) lends me to believe even more than I already did that you are very new to the Mac fan "community." Of course, if I'm wrong, you'll forgive me.

Check out No. 36 (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/50-best-albums-of-2017-123296/lindsey-buckingham-christine-mcvie-lindsey-buckingham-christine-mcvie-124763/) in this list of the 50 best of 2017 from the Rolling Stone staff.

Your saying that Lindsey's solo work is critically acclaimed doesn't make it true. Lindsey's work in FM has been critically acclaimed no doubt. His solo work not so much. His overall Metacritic solo album ranking (includes all major publications) is 76 out of 100 which puts him in the "generally favorable" region and not critically acclaimed.

[Sugar Mouse]

Yup. Mick (sugar M) listen, most of us used to be big Stevie fans. I love her early solo work, and adore her work on the first 3 mac albums. I hung in there and was forgiving of the subsequent solo albums. but I started cringing when i heard her vocals on Rock a little. After Mirage she was hit and miss. I did however love a lot of In your Dreams. Lindsey for me has had a much more consistent quality of material in his solo career, and has only gotten better IMO. The real reason I can't stand Stevie? I started noticing a few years ago in her interviews that she would say stuff that really rubbed me the wrong way. Then she refused to record with FM. Then she would be all over the place with why she didn't like to record. She lies... a lot. So when she got LB fired? DEAD.TO.ME.

Well, you've presented one side of the story. The other story, of course, is that Stevie and Mick had enough of Lindsey's behavior (as documented in the book "Storms") and wanted the band to be a peaceful, happy work environment.

[Sugar Mouse]

Mind my asking for examples of bad songwriting on his solo albums? I know he has certainly written some clunkers, but I want to get a better grasp on your taste.

What in your opinion are some of Stevie's great songs?

That's kinda the reason for all the drama on the board lately.

My opinion is that Stevie is a far better songwriter than Lindsey while Lindsey is, without question, a far better arranger/producer. Lindsey has never written a song of the quality of "Sisters of The Moon", "Dreams", "Beautiful Child", "Storms", "Sara", "Gypsy", "Rhiannon", "Silver Springs" ... and the list goes on and on. Of course, that's my opinion and others are free to disagree. I've listened repeatedly to Lindsey's solo albums and his recent Anthology and I find most of his songs without sufficient melodic flow and dynamic variance. Some of them are exercises in guitar prowess, but that doesn't make them good songs.

[saniette]

Well, you've presented one side of the story. The other story, of course, is that Stevie and Mick had enough of Lindsey's behavior (as documented in the book "Storms") and wanted the band to be a peaceful, happy work environment.

But that's just your theory. There's no evidence to support that the band wasn't a happy environment for the most part. Christine was quite vocal about enjoying the tour with Lindsey, and Mick had always seemed to get along with him fine. The issue is clearly between Lindsey and Stevie, but to act like Lindsey hasn't changed in the past 40 years is ridiculous. You want to lock him in to past behavior, but you don't actually know what he's like now. People do change, amd if anything I think Lindsey's been walking on eggshells around Stevie since SYW.

[saniette]

My opinion is that Stevie is a far better songwriter than Lindsey while Lindsey is, without question, a far better arranger/producer. Lindsey has never written a song of the quality of "Sisters of The Moon", "Dreams", "Beautiful Child", "Storms", "Sara", "Gypsy", "Rhiannon", "Silver Springs" ... and the list goes on and on. Of course, that's my opinion and others are free to disagree. I've listened repeatedly to Lindsey's solo albums and his recent Anthology and I find most of his songs without sufficient melodic flow and dynamic variance. Some of them are exercises in guitar prowess, but that doesn't make them good songs.

You just prefer Stevie's style of songwriting, and that's fine. But she's not "far better". And her songs tend to be pretty dull musically, whatever "dynamic variance" there is comes from Lindsey's arrangements.

"Go Your Own Way" is just as good as the songs you listed, as well as I'm So Afraid, Never Going Back Again, Walk a Thin Line, IKINW, Trouble, Go Insane, and plenty more. I do think Stevie's songs tend to have more of an emotional resonance than his, but musically they're just as good. What he can do, she can't do, and vice versa. She can't write those type of songs at all, and all the FM songs you listed depend on Lindsey's arrangements to make them hits. And Stevie liked the "Can't Go Back" music enough to sing "Wild Heart" over it, and that song would have been better as a collaboration than either song they came up with separately.

Notice how you didn't list any of Stevie's solo songs? I guess her solo career isn't that great after all.

I just think you're selling Lindsey's songwriting abilities short. Neil Finn apparently likes his songs enough to sing them every night, and I'm sure he had a say in which songs he would sing.

[Sugar Mouse]

You just prefer Stevie's style of songwriting, and that's fine. But she's not "far better". And her songs tend to be pretty dull musically, whatever "dynamic variance" there is comes from Lindsey's arrangements.

"Go Your Own Way" is just as good as the songs you listed, as well as I'm So Afraid, Never Going Back Again, Walk a Thin Line, IKINW, Trouble, Go Insane, and plenty more. I do think Stevie's songs tend to have more of an emotional resonance than his, but musically they're just as good. What he can do, she can't do, and vice versa. She can't write those type of songs at all, and all the FM songs you listed depend on Lindsey's arrangements to make them hits. And Stevie liked the "Can't Go Back" music enough to sing "Wild Heart" over it, and that song would have been better as a collaboration than either song they came up with separately.

Notice how you didn't list any of Stevie's solo songs? I guess her solo career isn't that great after all.

I just think you're selling Lindsey's songwriting abilities short. Neil Finn apparently likes his songs enough to sing them every night, and I'm sure he had a say in which songs he would sing.

I adore many of Stevie's solo songs ... "Has Anyone Ever Written ...", "Beauty and The Beast", "Mabel Normand", "Hard Advice", "Belle Fleur", etc. One thing we can agree on is that Stevie and Lindsey are musically better together than apart. You mentioned Neil and yes, I think he's one of the best songwriters of all-time but that's obviously my opinion. Unlike Lindsey and Stevie, Neil has written almost every song on the 18 albums he's released since Split Enz ended about 35 years ago. And Neil wrote most of the Split Enz songs during the last few albums and wrote most of their hits. It's kind of astounding how many great songs he's written. Lindsey, Stevie, and Christine shared the songwriting in Fleetwood Mac while Neil has been the main songwriter in his 18 post-Enz albums outside of the projects he's done with his brother Tim where they wrote the songs together. As far as Neil singing the Mac songs, I know his son Liam and his daughter-in-law are HUGE Fleetwood Mac fans and Neil has become a big fan of the band's songs. He recently said that he only knew the Mac hits until recently but that he's been very impressed with the quality of the songwriting now that he's been learning the back catalogue.

[secondhandchain]

I adore many of Stevie's solo songs ... "Has Anyone Ever Written ...", "Beauty and The Beast", "Mabel Normand", "Hard Advice", "Belle Fleur", etc. One thing we can agree on is that Stevie and Lindsey are musically better together than apart. You mentioned Neil and yes, I think he's one of the best songwriters of all-time but that's obviously my opinion. Unlike Lindsey and Stevie, Neil has written almost every song on the 18 albums he's released since Split Enz ended about 35 years ago. And Neil wrote most of the Split Enz songs during the last few albums and wrote most of their hits. It's kind of astounding how many great songs he's written. Lindsey, Stevie, and Christine shared the songwriting in Fleetwood Mac while Neil has been the main songwriter in his 18 post-Enz albums outside of the projects he's done with his brother Tim where they wrote the songs together. As far as Neil singing the Mac songs, I know his son Liam and his daughter-in-law are HUGE Fleetwood Mac fans and Neil has become a big fan of the band's songs. He recently said that he only knew the Mac hits until recently but that he's been very impressed with the quality of the songwriting now that he's been learning the back catalogue.

I have nothing against Neil or Mike, they are very talented. But come on, they are not FM. It's just not right. Is having some peace and quiet worth ruining a legacy? This is probably close to their last tour. She had to go and ruin it? We are pissed for a very good reason.

[SteveMacD]

One would think that a Neil Finn fan of all people would appreciate an artist who had commercial success deciding to put art above commercialism.

[SteveMacD]

I have nothing against Neil or Mike, they are very talented. But come on, they are not FM. It's just not right. Is having some peace and quiet worth ruining a legacy? This is probably close to their last tour. She had to go and ruin it? We are pissed for a very good reason.

Being in and around that level of acrimony wears on people. Life’s too short.

As for the legacy, they’re revisiting a part of their heritage that has largely gone ignored for decades. The jams between Mike and Christine harken back to the Future Games/Bare Trees years. That was also part of their legacy.

[AncientQueen]

As for the legacy, they’re revisiting a part of their heritage that has largely gone ignored for decades. The jams between Mike and Christine harken back to the Future Games/Bare Trees years. That was also part of their legacy.
I agree. Right now, they seem to be more aware of their legacy than they have for decades.

I just hope that Hypnotized is not gone from the setlist, the Bob Welch years have always been so underrated, I love that Bob's work got a "seat at the table" and hope that it keeps it.

[gldstwmn]

to insert some much needed positivity here:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey <a href="https://twitter.com/LBuckingham?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@LBuckingham</a>, just a GREAT show in DC tonight! Loved all the positive energy in that room tonight. You’re a class act. It’s was special to be a part of it. Thanks!l <a href="https://t.co/BO2bSctva7">pic.twitter.com/BO2bSctva7</a></p>&mdash; Tom Fitzgerald (@FitzFox5DC) <a href="https://twitter.com/FitzFox5DC/status/1053488912323239942?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wrong forum. :shrug:

[Sugar Mouse]

One would think that a Neil Finn fan of all people would appreciate an artist who had commercial success deciding to put art above commercialism.

Are you referring to me? I appreciate Lindsey putting art above commercialism. That concept is wonderful. I really appreciate Lindsey's attention to detail in terms of production/arrangements. It his songwriting that is the issue for me. Again, the Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac were so special because they needed each other and were far better together than apart.

[Sugar Mouse]

Being in and around that level of acrimony wears on people. Life’s too short.

As for the legacy, they’re revisiting a part of their heritage that has largely gone ignored for decades. The jams between Mike and Christine harken back to the Future Games/Bare Trees years. That was also part of their legacy.

Great post. Having a meltdown over what song was playing as they were introduced at MusiCares appears to have been the tipping point.

[DownOnRodeo]

One thing we can agree on is that Stevie and Lindsey are musically better together than apart.

As much as it would be nice if everyone agreed on something, I could not be in greater disagreement about that statement.

I see Stevie and Lindsey's songwriting prowess over the years as having a starkly inverse relationship: Stevie's considerable talent in writing songs waned from fantastic highs, even as Lindsey's rose from mediocre lows.

As much as Stevie may or may not need Lindsey musically in one form or other, his songwriting (production etc. aside) has been increasingly astronomical since the 90s and just seems to get better and better--all with zero input from Stevie (save the odd vocal cameo).

(Runs off to listen to Rock Away Blind for the hundredth time this week.)

[Sugar Mouse]

As much as it would be nice if everyone agreed on something, I could not be in greater disagreement about that statement.

I see Stevie and Lindsey's songwriting prowess over the years as having a starkly inverse relationship: Stevie's considerable talent in writing songs waned from fantastic highs, even as Lindsey's rose from mediocre lows.

As much as Stevie may or may not need Lindsey musically in one form or other, his songwriting (production etc. aside) has been increasingly astronomical since the 90s and just seems to get better and better--all with zero input from Stevie (save the odd vocal cameo).

(Runs off to listen to Rock Away Blind for the hundredth time this week.)

Perhaps you can let me know some great solo Lindsey songs from recent years. The songs I've heard are interesting with some beautifully intricate guitar work, but they aren't great songs to me.

Neil Finn recently gave a lecture at Yale on songwriting and he discussed why great guitar players often struggle as songwriters.

[HomerMcvie]

Neil Finn recently gave a lecture at Yale on songwriting and he discussed why great guitar players often struggle as songwriters.

WRONG forum, Mick.

[Sugar Mouse]

WRONG forum, Mick.

Actually no. I was discussing the question posed by this post; the Lindsey vs. Stevie question and I mentioned how they are better together than apart. The reason that's true is because Stevie struggles with production/arrangement while Lindsey struggles with songwriting. It's a classic situation where their strengths and weaknesses meld perfectly. That's why it's so sad that it's now come to the question of this thread over which side we prefer. I prefer them together than apart and it's horribly sad that it's come to this. My point about Neil Finn's fascinating recent Yale lecture is that he discussed why great guitarists often struggle as songwriters.

[DownOnRodeo]

Perhaps you can let me know some great solo Lindsey songs from recent years. The songs I've heard are interesting with some beautifully intricate guitar work, but they aren't great songs to me.

Neil Finn recently gave a lecture at Yale on songwriting and he discussed why great guitar players often struggle as songwriters.

If you spent less time watching Neil Finn lecture on why people other than him are not as good at songwriting, and more time listening to Lindsey Buckingham's solo catalog (which is not that extensive), you would have heard all of the latter's solo songs by now. And if after a few listens you still don't think many or any of them are "great," that's your prerogative. The one thing I'm not inclined to do is to attempt arguing my own views on the matter here on Lindsey's Rumours forum with Neil Finn as a constant reference point (explicit or implicit).

I encourage you to start a thread over on the Lindsey solo forum if you'd like to poll people's favorite tracks from his latter years.

[HejiraNYC]

Perhaps you can let me know some great solo Lindsey songs from recent years. The songs I've heard are interesting with some beautifully intricate guitar work, but they aren't great songs to me.

This. I think that hits the nail on the head when it comes to Lindsey. He had one truly solid solo album (Out of the Cradle in 1993) followed by solo efforts with fewer and fewer actually good songs on them. I listened to his most recent studio album Seeds We Sow a bunch of times and I just kept thinking how uncatchy and monotonous the songs were; I can't even remember one by name today. At the same time, his production style (sped up/whispered/sampled vocals, guitar effects, etc.), which was once quite novel, has become stale and dated. It becomes quite glaring on the LB/CM album because Christine's songs are so melodic, emotionally honest and catchy while Lindsey's songs are mostly just pleasant-but-generic power pop numbers with oblique, unimaginative lyrics. It's like John Lennon's Double Fantasy album and Christine is John while Lindsey is Yoko. None of this discounts Lindsey's incredible body of work from early in his career (up to 1993). But to say that he is some kind of visionary genius is quite a stretch in consideration of the overall mediocrity of the last 25 years of his output.
:sorry:

[Street_Dreamer]

Stevie hasn't had a solo album worth listening to since 1983.

[sodascouts]

Opinions about whether or not songs are quality are subjective; if you don't like something, that's your right, but that doesn't mean it's garbage.

I can't prove a song is good to you, because it might not be to your tastes. You have to listen and decide.

The opinions of critics and the position on the charts will not make you like that song if you've found it unenjoyable (although some people are mature enough to recognize markers of quality even in songs and artists they don't personally enjoy).

But respect others enough to refrain from saying that their favorite songwriter is worthless at songwriting. If you can't do that, at least garner enough self-awareness to realize that your proclamation that someone is lacking songwriting talent is not an objective measure.... no matter how many times you repeat it.

[Sugar Mouse]

This. I think that hits the nail on the head when it comes to Lindsey. He had one truly solid solo album (Out of the Cradle in 1993) followed by solo efforts with fewer and fewer actually good songs on them. I listened to his most recent studio album Seeds We Sow a bunch of times and I just kept thinking how uncatchy and monotonous the songs were; I can't even remember one by name today. At the same time, his production style (sped up/whispered/sampled vocals, guitar effects, etc.), which was once quite novel, has become stale and dated. It becomes quite glaring on the LB/CM album because Christine's songs are so melodic, emotionally honest and catchy while Lindsey's songs are mostly just pleasant-but-generic power pop numbers with oblique, unimaginative lyrics. It's like John Lennon's Double Fantasy album and Christine is John while Lindsey is Yoko. None of this discounts Lindsey's incredible body of work from early in his career (up to 1993). But to say that he is some kind of visionary genius is quite a stretch in consideration of the overall mediocrity of the last 25 years of his output.
:sorry:

Really insightful post. It's wonderful how you expressed your opinions so kindly, but accurately. No one is denying the talents of Lindsey Buckingham who has extraordinary prowess as a guitar wizard and production artist. And it's no put down to say someone isn't quite the songwriter that Christine and Stevie have been.

[Sugar Mouse]

If you spent less time watching Neil Finn lecture on why people other than him are not as good at songwriting, and more time listening to Lindsey Buckingham's solo catalog (which is not that extensive), you would have heard all of the latter's solo songs by now. And if after a few listens you still don't think many or any of them are "great," that's your prerogative. The one thing I'm not inclined to do is to attempt arguing my own views on the matter here on Lindsey's Rumours forum with Neil Finn as a constant reference point (explicit or implicit).

I encourage you to start a thread over on the Lindsey solo forum if you'd like to poll people's favorite tracks from his latter years.

Hi Joe,

I've been listening to the Lindsey Anthology for days now but will keep listening. It's actually growing on me; some really good stuff there. It's odd that you thought that I wrote that Neil said that no one else is as good a songwriter as he is. I never said that and Neil never said that in his Yale University lecture. Neil is one of the most humble musicians you'll ever meet. The lecture is on the Yale University website if you want to watch the lecture. The point that Neil was making is that it's very difficult to be a great songwriter if you're extraordinary at your chosen instrument. He described a concept where songwriters must be driven up until and beyond the boundaries of their musical talents in order to discover a great song. And this process is more difficult when an artist is already at or near the peak of musical proficiency. It's a fascinating point that elite musical talent can be a hindrance to great songwriting. Neil would be the first to admit that he's a solid, but not great, guitarist and pianist. If you think about it, most of the greatest songwriters of all-time are/were solid but not elite musicians. This concept may explain why Stevie (who's far from a great musician) has written more great songs than an extraordinary musician like Lindsey. Others who fit this are McCartney, Lennon, Dylan, and Petty who are/were phenomenal songwriters but not extraordinary musicians.

[SteveMacD]

Hi Joe,

I've been listening to the Lindsey Anthology for days now but will keep listening. It's actually growing on me; some really good stuff there. It's odd that you thought that I wrote that Neil said that no one else is as good a songwriter as he is. I never said that and Neil never said that in his Yale University lecture. Neil is one of the most humble musicians you'll ever meet. The lecture is on the Yale University website if you want to watch the lecture. The point that Neil was making is that it's very difficult to be a great songwriter if you're extraordinary at your chosen instrument. He described a concept where songwriters must be driven up until and beyond the boundaries of their musical talents in order to discover a great song. And this process is more difficult when an artist is already at or near the peak of musical proficiency. It's a fascinating point that elite musical talent can be a hindrance to great songwriting. Neil would be the first to admit that he's a solid, but not great, guitarist and pianist. If you think about it, most of the greatest songwriters of all-time are/were solid but not elite musicians. This concept may explain why Stevie (who's far from a great musician) has written more great songs than an extraordinary musician like Lindsey. Others who fit this are McCartney, Lennon, Dylan, and Petty who are/were phenomenal songwriters but not extraordinary musicians.
Blah, blah, blah.

Richard Thompson

(mic drop...)

[DownOnRodeo]

To be honest, Sugar Mouse, I wouldn't even necessarily claim that Lindsey is an EXTRAORDINARY musician (ie instrumentalist), and nor would he. He is the first to note that he is a self-taught, untrained 'noodler,' and that, for example, electric guitar solos have never been his niche.

Lindsey is no Tommy Emmanuel, for example.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l4s8hWLOOcc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So even if we except(edit: accept) the Yale Dissertation that EXTRAORDINARY instrumentalists tend not to be GREAT songwriters, I don't believe that applies to Lindsey Buckingham anyway, who is an impressive and unique instrumentalist but sees himself first and foremost as a crafter of songs--ie the poetry of songwriting and all the rest of it.

[David]

Your saying that Lindsey's solo work is critically acclaimed doesn't make it true. Lindsey's work in FM has been critically acclaimed no doubt. His solo work not so much. His overall Metacritic solo album ranking (includes all major publications) is 76 out of 100 which puts him in the "generally favorable" region and not critically acclaimed.
But you're arguing that Stevie's solo work has the edge, yet Metacritic (https://www.metacritic.com/person/stevie-nicks)rates her a 68.

Incidentally, have you spent any time reading reviews of the Buckingham and Nicks solo albums in the Blue Letter Archives, as I suggested? Spend some time checking out what the country's top rock critics had to say about each of them in Rolling Stone, the Village Voice, the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, Stereo Review, the Record, Guitar Player, the San Francisco Chronicle, the Boston Globe, the Philadelphia Enquirer, the Washington Post, and so on.

You'll find a very clear pattern of critical praise for his solo work since 1981, and at best reserved approval of her work since 1981. You'll find generally the same critical treatment of the two of them in Fleetwood Mac, too, if you look at both album reviews and concert reviews. Exceptions here and there over time, but the pattern is precisely what I said it was: historically, he's the critics' pet and she's the wildly popular solo performer with the big following.

I know you've been browbeaten in this forum lately, and I feel a bit bad for you. But I do wish you'd engage with me and others with some intellectual honesty instead of treating everybody flippantly and condescendingly. If you insist on being contrarian and perverse, I'll talk to somebody else.

[Sugar Mouse]

But you're arguing that Stevie's solo work has the edge, yet Metacritic (https://www.metacritic.com/person/stevie-nicks)rates her a 68.

Incidentally, have you spent any time reading reviews of the Buckingham and Nicks solo albums in the Blue Letter Archives, as I suggested? Spend some time checking out what the country's top rock critics had to say about each of them in Rolling Stone, the Village Voice, the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, Stereo Review, the Record, Guitar Player, the San Francisco Chronicle, the Boston Globe, the Philadelphia Enquirer, the Washington Post, and so on.

You'll find a very clear pattern of critical praise for his solo work since 1981, and at best reserved approval of her work since 1981. You'll find generally the same critical treatment of the two of them in Fleetwood Mac, too, if you look at both album reviews and concert reviews. Exceptions here and there over time, but the pattern is precisely what I said it was: historically, he's the critics' pet and she's the wildly popular solo performer with the big following.

I know you've been browbeaten in this forum lately, and I feel a bit bad for you. But I do wish you'd engage with me and others with some intellectual honesty instead of treating everybody flippantly and condescendingly. If you insist on being contrarian and perverse, I'll talk to somebody else.

My original point was in response to folks here who think that Lindsey’s solo work has been critically acclaimed and that’s not true. Is his solo work more acclaimed than Stevie’s? Perhaps but neither has had a critically acclaimed solo career based on Metacritic or AllMusic or Pitchfork or wherever. I’m happy to be proven wrong so please post some links from reputable sources that rate Lindsey’s solo albums so highly because I can’t find them.

[SteveMacD]

Not that my opinion matters, but my top ten Mac solo albums:

Peter: In The Skies
Mick: The Visitor
John: Gotta Band (surprisingly enjoyable)
Christine: s/t 1984
Stevie: Bella Donna
Lindsey OOTC
Danny: s/t (aka Midnight In San Juan)
Bob Welch: French Kiss
Stevie: The Wild Heart
Billy: Are You With Me Baby

Honorable mentions, but not included because I only count works post-Fleetwood Mac…

A Hard Road -John Mayall & The Bluesbreakers
Buckingham Nicks
Alone Together -Dave Mason
Traffic -Traffic/Dave Mason
O.K. Ken? -Chicken Shack
Between Friends -Billy
Crowded House -CH

[David]

My opinion is that Stevie is a far better songwriter than Lindsey while Lindsey is, without question, a far better arranger/producer. Lindsey has never written a song of the quality of "Sisters of The Moon", "Dreams", "Beautiful Child", "Storms", "Sara", "Gypsy", "Rhiannon", "Silver Springs" ... and the list goes on and on. Of course, that's my opinion and others are free to disagree. I've listened repeatedly to Lindsey's solo albums and his recent Anthology and I find most of his songs without sufficient melodic flow and dynamic variance. Some of them are exercises in guitar prowess, but that doesn't make them good songs. I'm not contrasting the songwriting merits of Lindsey and Stevie (although that would be fun). I'm saying that Lindsey is historically the critical darling in Fleetwood Mac, not Stevie. That was my point in response to your mention of Metacritic and AllMusic. I recommended that you read the vast body of criticism on their respective solo work to support my conclusion.

[David]

My original point was in response to folks here who think that Lindsey’s solo work has been critically acclaimed and that’s not true. It is true, cowboy.

Is his solo work more acclaimed than Stevie’s? Yes, by an Olympic-length swimming pool. This is precisely what I am asserting.

Perhaps but neither has had a critically acclaimed solo career based on Metacritic or AllMusic or Pitchfork or wherever. I’m happy to be proven wrong so please post some links from reputable sources that rate Lindsey’s solo albums so highly because I can’t find them.Did you look through the Blue Letter Archives (for the third time)? I've given you large lists of critics, newspapers, and magazines. Take it away! I'll give you a start: the reviews of Law and Order in Stereo Review and Rolling Stone.

Again, my argument is not that Lindsey is a great songwriter (although I think he's pretty good) or that Stevie isn't a great songwriter (although I think she's pretty good). Lindsey as a solo dude has had the highest reputation in the rock press among the Fleetwood Macsters since 1981.
________________________________________________________________________________

Rolling Stone Album Review
August 30, 1984

Go Insane (4 out 5 stars)
Lindsey Buckingham
Elektra/Asylum

Lindsey Buckingham’s Tuneful Triumph:
Fleetwood Mac’s guitarist sounds like an Eighties version of Brian Wilson
by Christopher Connelly

When many California-based musicians were taking the punk-New Wave movement as a personal affront, Lindsey Buckingham of Fleetwood Mac was taking it as a challenge. From 1979’s "Tusk" on, this songwriter, singer and guitarist has struggled to combine the wildest possibilities of new music with the folk-fostered melodies that have marked his most commercially fruitful efforts. "Go Insane" is a triumphant culmination of this effort - the richest, most fascinatingly tuneful album of the year.

Buckingham’s strongest influence has always been Brian Wilson, the out-there but studio-savvy Beach Boy with an impeccable pop ear. Yet while Wilson’s music speaks with an airy, wouldn’t it be nice optimism, Buckingham’s work reveals a slightly warped obsessiveness. He uses music the way Talking Heads’ David Byrne uses words: taking simple, even clichéd, constructions and tossing them together in unexpected combinations.

That potent, brainy mixture is further invigorated on "Go Insane" by a dollop of seething sexual passion. "I guess I had to prove I was someone hard to lose," Buckingham chants before kicking into the dazzling, "I Want You," perhaps his most nakedly emotional song to date. A gleeful keyboard hook explodes into an aural torrent: synthesizers, guitars and drums rage, as Buckingham furiously cries out his heart’s dichotomy: "I’m a bundle of joy, a pocketful of tears/Got enough of both to last all the years."

Lyrically, "Go Insane" limns a painful breakup: "Hey little girl, leave the little drug along," he pleads in "I Must Go," and similar strains of dark-etched longing appear throughout the record. But Buckingham’s words - although they are intriguingly unsettling - take a back seat to the parade of toe-tapping sound here. Even though he plays almost every instrument on the album, Buckingham avoids the cluttered, too-perfect sheen often associated with West Coast music. The rough edges are still there, and the overall sound has lightness that enhances the record’s emotional impact.

On that score, "Bang the Drum" is Go Insane’s finest achievement. Its ticktock, ethereally intoned verse drifts off into a gloriously cascading chorus and a bridge that’s thick with ear-pleasing harmonies, with a stinging guitar solo to boot. More of Buckingham’s axe work is on display in the uptempo "Loving Cup," which fuses the snaky lines of "Gold Dust Woman" with the spare, threatening whomp of "Tusk"’s undiscovered treasure, "Not That Funny."

Even the more commercially minded songs are infused with Buckingham’s newfound boldness. While his first solo album, "Law and Order," featured the mild-mannered "Trouble," "Go Insane" offers the Mark Lindsayish title song, all hard edges and pungent longing ("I call your name/She’s a lot like you"). Similarly, a whipcrack backbeat kicks "Slow Dancing" out of the living room and onto the dance floor where it belongs.

Admittedly, the found-sound antics of the two-part "Play in the Rain" (glasses of water being poured, heels clip-clopping across a sidewalk) pale after a couple of listenings, though Buckingham’s sitarlike fretboard runs add some excitement. But then there’s "D.W. Suite," a three-part valediction to the late Dennis Wilson in which Buckingham really pulls out the stops: Laurie Anderson-style vocal effects, a harp interlude, a synthesized Ed Sullivan introduction, a Beach Boys-type chorus and a Scottish flute march. "D.W. Suite" may be pop’s most elaborate farewell, but its flashy eclecticism is reined in throughout by Buckingham’s keen rock & roll sense.

Artistically, "Go Insane" is a breakthrough album not just for the thirty-six-year-old Buckingham, but conceivably for rock & roll as well, representing as it does the most successful combination yet of hummable Seventies slick rock and Eighties avant-edge. If Lindsey Buckingham really is following in the footsteps of his idol, then "Go Insane" is his "Pet Sounds": possibly his least commercial work, but also his most daring and savory.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Rolling Stone Album Review
November 26, 1981

Law and Order (4 out of 5 stars)
Lindsey Buckingham
Asylum

Lindsey Buckingham’s perfect silliness
by Jon Pareles

In his own way, Lindsey Buckingham is a rock-ribbed traditionalist, but the tradition he valiantly and self-consciously upholds on his first solo album, "Law and Order," isn’t hallowed and funky like rockabilly or Cajun music, Buckingham’s tradition is that of the bigtime Hollywood wacko - perfectly symbolized by Brian Wilson in his sandbox - who creates, amid decadence and craziness, pop songs that are drenched in sweetly accessible innocence. It’s the tradition of the copyright-royalties royalty whose fortunes have been made in three-minute bursts, a subculture as hermetic and all-American as the Mardi Gras Indians, albeit at the opposite end of the economic spectrum. At its best, it boasts its own wild-eyed naiveté. The idea of a grown man sitting in his basement singing "rah-ta-ta-ta" repeatedly into a microphone that costs more than my whole stereo - well, somehow, there’s a certain ironic charm.

Of course, Buckingham has earned his playtime. With a little help from group chemistry, he turned flat-footed, middleweight Fleetwood Mac into a sparkling ubiquity (even if you don’t own "Fleetwood Mac" or "Rumours," it’s guaranteed you know someone who does). An avowed Beach Boys fan, Buckingham probably coaxed his band mates into intricate harmonizing, and he definitely had a hand in giving Fleetwood Mac’s records that everything-is-beautiful California gloss. Based on the evidence of "Law and Order," however, Lindsey Buckingham’s biggest contribution to Fleetwood Mac has been his unabashed fondness for pop music at its most hokey and hooky - not just sculpting vocal harmonies but carefully designing each phrase to tickle some pleasure center, no matter what the lyrics happen to say. Pop must come to him almost by reflex. Interestingly, Buckingham also has a rock & roll urge that shows itself in screaming guitar solos (as on "Fleetwood Mac Live") and funny noises (all over "Tusk"). As Los Angeles archetypes go, Buckingham is definitely more Turtle than Eagle: at a certain point, he’s happy to let his silliness conquer his perfectionism. And once Rumours went over the top, the artist apparently decided he could trust his reflexes and use loose ends as embellishments.

So now that he’s proved himself a pro, Lindsey Buckingham can make like a happy amateur. Except for one drum-and-bass track and a background vocal here and there, Law and Order is a one-man disc. If Buckingham needs to extend his range or techniques, he utilizes obvious tape tricks, strictly on the up and up. The LP could be an extension of the star’s tunes on Tusk: basement tapes with a million-dollar mix, while Buckingham and coproducer Richard Dashut try to hold back the giggles. Like the best die-hard popsters, Buckingham writes songs that seem both effortless and encyclopedic. "Love from Here, Love from There" second-lines as if the twenty-four track machine were a New Orleans secret, and "Shadow of the West" brings the Drifting Cowboys to the edge of the Pacific. "That’s How We Do It in L.A." sports a jug-band swagger, complete with a drum-kit version of washboard percussion and a guitar that sounds like a kazoo.

Most of Buckingham’s hat tips go directly to the Beach Boys and the Beatles. "Bwana" uses the bass line from "I want to Hold Your Hand" (hence the title?) and keyboards related to "Surfin’ Safari." "Trouble," with its steady quarter-note rhythms, zither hook and air of wistful autism, is Brian Wilson to the core. Throughout the album, Buckingham’s vocal harmonies are inspired by the Beach Boys songbook - he seems to have all of their ranges in his voice - while some of the mixes, like the left and right drum fills in "Mary Lee Jones," echo the goofy stereo of early Beatles records.

Then again, the last thing Lindsey Buckingham needs to borrow is goofiness. Since Buckingham’s idea of drumming and Dashut’s sound are fervently unconventional, the homemade arrangements are eccentric from the bottom up: every cut has a pinch of skiffle. Above that, the artist builds airy vocal chorales and laceworks of guitar - pure confection - except that every so often a track runs wild and gets derailed. For most of "Mary Lee Jones," Buckingham sustains a single guitar note at the center of the harmony. Suddenly, this note blasts into fuzzed-out blues licks, like a Maserati pulling loose from a snowdrift. The singer sobs histrionically at the end of "I’ll Tell You Now" (after, incidentally, not telling us anything) and does his finest Frankenstein shtick in the middle of "Johnny Stew," which is "World Turning" on its side. Probably only Buckingham and Dashut know what else is buried in the mix.

These guys aren’t just farting around, though they don’t seem to mind if they do. Each slapstick overdub is a reminder that pop is a confection, that the innocence is phony - enjoy the hooks but don’t kid yourself. Buckingham has a much fun popping the bubble as he does filling it full of wind. On side one of "Law and Order," he acts like Nick Lowe or the Barry Manilow of "Copacabana," couching his skepticism in smiley vocals and lyrics that merely hint at mayhem. In "Bwana," he sings the line "We all have our demons" in falsetto, while "Mary Lee Jones" is about her miserable "final days" (suicide?), though you’d never guess it from the star’s one-man-Jordan-aires backups. Buckingham drops the mask a little more on side two, which opens with a Fifties torch-style rendition of Kurt Weill and Maxwell Anderson’s "September Song." With "Shadow of the West," he becomes absolutely direct. "Shadow of the West" lets you suspend all disbelief as cumulus-cloud harmonies float above the melody, only to clarify Buckingham’s message: "More and more, I feel less and less."

Still, Buckingham hardly wants us to feel sorry for him. The rest of the side is nasty comedy - are the background vocals in "That’s How We Do It in L.A." really saying, "****ed up"? - until the final number. "Satisfied Mind" addresses but can’t answer the question Buckingham expects us to ask: who cares about a rich man’s hobby? The old-timers who wrote the tune thought that a "satisfied mind" was better than any riches, and Buckingham proves he was once a folkie as he sings the song straight, with easy nasal harmonies. There it sits, the send-off on an LP of pop contrivances. But Lindsey Buckingham knows we don’t have to believe it for a second.
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Rolling Stone, December 20, 1984

Year in Albums

by Kurt Loder

Go Insane: Lindsey Buckingham (Elektra/Asylum)

Before hardcore blossomed, a lot of the New Wave-pop-punk music from California - sealed off as it was from what East Coasters and Brits saw as the real action - seemed self-contradictorily slick and hermetic. Erstwhile Fleetwood Mac member Lindsey Buckingham was one of the few mainstream musicians to dig into new-music styles and dynamics in a serious way and to bring to them already imposing skills as a writer, guitarist and producer; but his music, too, seems insular and sometimes airless.

Oddly, this is by his own design.

"Go Insane," Buckingham's second solo album, is a singular mix of Seventies sheen and Eighties edge, enormously inventive in every respect, from the dazzling, "I Want You" and the melodiously cascading "Bang the Drum" to the furiously eclectic "D.W. Suite," a homage to the late Beach Boy Dennis Wilson. But even though Roy Thomas Baker was brought in to oversee the production this time, Buckingham still played almost every instrument on the album, and sometimes one longs for a little more outside input - a slap on the head here, a kick in the ass there.

Buckingham is a studio oddball in the grand California tradition of Kenny Young, Curt Boetcher and Van Dyke Parks, and like them, he may never be truly appreciated by the masses - which would be a shame, because his talents are too big to be contained by simple pop stardom, and besides, rock needs all the nut-case savants it can get.

[SteveMacD]

It is true, cowboy.
Who cares about reviews and whatnot?

Rolling Stone gave one of the most amazing reviews I’ve ever seen for “Out Of The Cradle.” Then again, two years earlier, the very same Rolling Stone said that Billy Burnette and Rick Vito were the best thing to ever (EVER!!!) happen to Fleetwood Mac.

What’s good and/or critically acclaimed isn’t the same as what sells. Regardless of the reason, Stevie’s solo music sell$, and Lindsey’s doesn’t.

[Sugar Mouse]

I'm not contrasting the songwriting merits of Lindsey and Stevie (although that would be fun). I'm saying that Lindsey is historically the critical darling in Fleetwood Mac, not Stevie. That was my point in response to your mention of Metacritic and AllMusic. I recommended that you read the vast body of criticism on their respective solo work to support my conclusion.

I completely agree that Lindsey is the critical darling in Fleetwood Mac albums with Christine second. However, I was talking about solo albums and Lindsey hasn't been a critical darling in his solo career.

[SteveMacD]

I completely agree that Lindsey is the critical darling in Fleetwood Mac albums with Christine second. However, I was talking about solo albums and Lindsey hasn't been a critical darling in his solo career.

Oh, for the love of…

HE JUST POSTED ACTUAL REVIEWS!!!

[HomerMcvie]

Oh, for the love of…

HE JUST POSTED ACTUAL REVIEWS!!!

Good luck with Sugar Mick hearing anything you say.

[DownOnRodeo]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4GBu24LhnII" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[David]

Who cares about reviews and whatnot?

What’s good and/or critically acclaimed isn’t the same as what sells. Regardless of the reason, Stevie’s solo music sell$, and Lindsey’s doesn’t. Did you read my earlier comments? You appear not to have, so where do we take this exchange?

[Sugar Mouse]

It is true, cowboy.

Yes, by an Olympic-length swimming pool. This is precisely what I am asserting.

Did you look through the Blue Letter Archives (for the third time)? I've given you large lists of critics, newspapers, and magazines. Take it away! I'll give you a start: the reviews of Law and Order in Stereo Review and Rolling Stone.

Again, my argument is not that Lindsey is a great songwriter (although I think he's pretty good) or that Stevie isn't a great songwriter (although I think she's pretty good). Lindsey as a solo dude has had the highest reputation in the rock press among the Fleetwood Macsters since 1981.
________________________________________________________________________________

Rolling Stone Album Review
August 30, 1984

Go Insane (4 out 5 stars)
Lindsey Buckingham
Elektra/Asylum

Lindsey Buckingham’s Tuneful Triumph:
Fleetwood Mac’s guitarist sounds like an Eighties version of Brian Wilson
by Christopher Connelly

When many California-based musicians were taking the punk-New Wave movement as a personal affront, Lindsey Buckingham of Fleetwood Mac was taking it as a challenge. From 1979’s "Tusk" on, this songwriter, singer and guitarist has struggled to combine the wildest possibilities of new music with the folk-fostered melodies that have marked his most commercially fruitful efforts. "Go Insane" is a triumphant culmination of this effort - the richest, most fascinatingly tuneful album of the year.

Buckingham’s strongest influence has always been Brian Wilson, the out-there but studio-savvy Beach Boy with an impeccable pop ear. Yet while Wilson’s music speaks with an airy, wouldn’t it be nice optimism, Buckingham’s work reveals a slightly warped obsessiveness. He uses music the way Talking Heads’ David Byrne uses words: taking simple, even clichéd, constructions and tossing them together in unexpected combinations.

That potent, brainy mixture is further invigorated on "Go Insane" by a dollop of seething sexual passion. "I guess I had to prove I was someone hard to lose," Buckingham chants before kicking into the dazzling, "I Want You," perhaps his most nakedly emotional song to date. A gleeful keyboard hook explodes into an aural torrent: synthesizers, guitars and drums rage, as Buckingham furiously cries out his heart’s dichotomy: "I’m a bundle of joy, a pocketful of tears/Got enough of both to last all the years."

Lyrically, "Go Insane" limns a painful breakup: "Hey little girl, leave the little drug along," he pleads in "I Must Go," and similar strains of dark-etched longing appear throughout the record. But Buckingham’s words - although they are intriguingly unsettling - take a back seat to the parade of toe-tapping sound here. Even though he plays almost every instrument on the album, Buckingham avoids the cluttered, too-perfect sheen often associated with West Coast music. The rough edges are still there, and the overall sound has lightness that enhances the record’s emotional impact.

On that score, "Bang the Drum" is Go Insane’s finest achievement. Its ticktock, ethereally intoned verse drifts off into a gloriously cascading chorus and a bridge that’s thick with ear-pleasing harmonies, with a stinging guitar solo to boot. More of Buckingham’s axe work is on display in the uptempo "Loving Cup," which fuses the snaky lines of "Gold Dust Woman" with the spare, threatening whomp of "Tusk"’s undiscovered treasure, "Not That Funny."

Even the more commercially minded songs are infused with Buckingham’s newfound boldness. While his first solo album, "Law and Order," featured the mild-mannered "Trouble," "Go Insane" offers the Mark Lindsayish title song, all hard edges and pungent longing ("I call your name/She’s a lot like you"). Similarly, a whipcrack backbeat kicks "Slow Dancing" out of the living room and onto the dance floor where it belongs.

Admittedly, the found-sound antics of the two-part "Play in the Rain" (glasses of water being poured, heels clip-clopping across a sidewalk) pale after a couple of listenings, though Buckingham’s sitarlike fretboard runs add some excitement. But then there’s "D.W. Suite," a three-part valediction to the late Dennis Wilson in which Buckingham really pulls out the stops: Laurie Anderson-style vocal effects, a harp interlude, a synthesized Ed Sullivan introduction, a Beach Boys-type chorus and a Scottish flute march. "D.W. Suite" may be pop’s most elaborate farewell, but its flashy eclecticism is reined in throughout by Buckingham’s keen rock & roll sense.

Artistically, "Go Insane" is a breakthrough album not just for the thirty-six-year-old Buckingham, but conceivably for rock & roll as well, representing as it does the most successful combination yet of hummable Seventies slick rock and Eighties avant-edge. If Lindsey Buckingham really is following in the footsteps of his idol, then "Go Insane" is his "Pet Sounds": possibly his least commercial work, but also his most daring and savory.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Rolling Stone Album Review
November 26, 1981

Law and Order (4 out of 5 stars)
Lindsey Buckingham
Asylum

Lindsey Buckingham’s perfect silliness
by Jon Pareles

In his own way, Lindsey Buckingham is a rock-ribbed traditionalist, but the tradition he valiantly and self-consciously upholds on his first solo album, "Law and Order," isn’t hallowed and funky like rockabilly or Cajun music, Buckingham’s tradition is that of the bigtime Hollywood wacko - perfectly symbolized by Brian Wilson in his sandbox - who creates, amid decadence and craziness, pop songs that are drenched in sweetly accessible innocence. It’s the tradition of the copyright-royalties royalty whose fortunes have been made in three-minute bursts, a subculture as hermetic and all-American as the Mardi Gras Indians, albeit at the opposite end of the economic spectrum. At its best, it boasts its own wild-eyed naiveté. The idea of a grown man sitting in his basement singing "rah-ta-ta-ta" repeatedly into a microphone that costs more than my whole stereo - well, somehow, there’s a certain ironic charm.

Of course, Buckingham has earned his playtime. With a little help from group chemistry, he turned flat-footed, middleweight Fleetwood Mac into a sparkling ubiquity (even if you don’t own "Fleetwood Mac" or "Rumours," it’s guaranteed you know someone who does). An avowed Beach Boys fan, Buckingham probably coaxed his band mates into intricate harmonizing, and he definitely had a hand in giving Fleetwood Mac’s records that everything-is-beautiful California gloss. Based on the evidence of "Law and Order," however, Lindsey Buckingham’s biggest contribution to Fleetwood Mac has been his unabashed fondness for pop music at its most hokey and hooky - not just sculpting vocal harmonies but carefully designing each phrase to tickle some pleasure center, no matter what the lyrics happen to say. Pop must come to him almost by reflex. Interestingly, Buckingham also has a rock & roll urge that shows itself in screaming guitar solos (as on "Fleetwood Mac Live") and funny noises (all over "Tusk"). As Los Angeles archetypes go, Buckingham is definitely more Turtle than Eagle: at a certain point, he’s happy to let his silliness conquer his perfectionism. And once Rumours went over the top, the artist apparently decided he could trust his reflexes and use loose ends as embellishments.

So now that he’s proved himself a pro, Lindsey Buckingham can make like a happy amateur. Except for one drum-and-bass track and a background vocal here and there, Law and Order is a one-man disc. If Buckingham needs to extend his range or techniques, he utilizes obvious tape tricks, strictly on the up and up. The LP could be an extension of the star’s tunes on Tusk: basement tapes with a million-dollar mix, while Buckingham and coproducer Richard Dashut try to hold back the giggles. Like the best die-hard popsters, Buckingham writes songs that seem both effortless and encyclopedic. "Love from Here, Love from There" second-lines as if the twenty-four track machine were a New Orleans secret, and "Shadow of the West" brings the Drifting Cowboys to the edge of the Pacific. "That’s How We Do It in L.A." sports a jug-band swagger, complete with a drum-kit version of washboard percussion and a guitar that sounds like a kazoo.

Most of Buckingham’s hat tips go directly to the Beach Boys and the Beatles. "Bwana" uses the bass line from "I want to Hold Your Hand" (hence the title?) and keyboards related to "Surfin’ Safari." "Trouble," with its steady quarter-note rhythms, zither hook and air of wistful autism, is Brian Wilson to the core. Throughout the album, Buckingham’s vocal harmonies are inspired by the Beach Boys songbook - he seems to have all of their ranges in his voice - while some of the mixes, like the left and right drum fills in "Mary Lee Jones," echo the goofy stereo of early Beatles records.

Then again, the last thing Lindsey Buckingham needs to borrow is goofiness. Since Buckingham’s idea of drumming and Dashut’s sound are fervently unconventional, the homemade arrangements are eccentric from the bottom up: every cut has a pinch of skiffle. Above that, the artist builds airy vocal chorales and laceworks of guitar - pure confection - except that every so often a track runs wild and gets derailed. For most of "Mary Lee Jones," Buckingham sustains a single guitar note at the center of the harmony. Suddenly, this note blasts into fuzzed-out blues licks, like a Maserati pulling loose from a snowdrift. The singer sobs histrionically at the end of "I’ll Tell You Now" (after, incidentally, not telling us anything) and does his finest Frankenstein shtick in the middle of "Johnny Stew," which is "World Turning" on its side. Probably only Buckingham and Dashut know what else is buried in the mix.

These guys aren’t just farting around, though they don’t seem to mind if they do. Each slapstick overdub is a reminder that pop is a confection, that the innocence is phony - enjoy the hooks but don’t kid yourself. Buckingham has a much fun popping the bubble as he does filling it full of wind. On side one of "Law and Order," he acts like Nick Lowe or the Barry Manilow of "Copacabana," couching his skepticism in smiley vocals and lyrics that merely hint at mayhem. In "Bwana," he sings the line "We all have our demons" in falsetto, while "Mary Lee Jones" is about her miserable "final days" (suicide?), though you’d never guess it from the star’s one-man-Jordan-aires backups. Buckingham drops the mask a little more on side two, which opens with a Fifties torch-style rendition of Kurt Weill and Maxwell Anderson’s "September Song." With "Shadow of the West," he becomes absolutely direct. "Shadow of the West" lets you suspend all disbelief as cumulus-cloud harmonies float above the melody, only to clarify Buckingham’s message: "More and more, I feel less and less."

Still, Buckingham hardly wants us to feel sorry for him. The rest of the side is nasty comedy - are the background vocals in "That’s How We Do It in L.A." really saying, "****ed up"? - until the final number. "Satisfied Mind" addresses but can’t answer the question Buckingham expects us to ask: who cares about a rich man’s hobby? The old-timers who wrote the tune thought that a "satisfied mind" was better than any riches, and Buckingham proves he was once a folkie as he sings the song straight, with easy nasal harmonies. There it sits, the send-off on an LP of pop contrivances. But Lindsey Buckingham knows we don’t have to believe it for a second.

Ok ... Rolling Stone (one of the softest reviewers in the business) gave two of Lindsey's albums 4 out of 5 stars. That's a solid but unspectacular review. Again, my original point (which you seem to be ignoring) is simply that Lindsey has had a solid but not critically acclaimed solo career. If you look at the aggregate websites, that's what you find. Metacritic gives him a 76 for the albums they've reviewed which is solid but not great.

One of the best music critic aggregate websites is BestEverAlbums.com. That sight aggregate ranks Out of The Cradle as Lindsey's best album and puts it as the #6048 album of all-time based on critics' reviews. That's Lindsey's only solo album in the top 10,000.

Stevie, on the other hand, has Bella Donna (aggregate rank at #1653) and The Wild Heart (aggregate rank at #4164). So based on aggregate critics' reviews, Stevie has two albums far ahead of Lindsey's best solo work.

For comparison, they have Rumours ranked at #32 of all-time and Tusk at #565. In fact, they have seven Mac albums ranked ahead of any of the solo albums by Stevie or Lindsey.

Bottom line, neither of them have been solo critical darlings based on these numbers although I don't dispute that Lindsey has been the critical darling for the Mac albums.

[David]

Oh, for the love of…

HE JUST POSTED ACTUAL REVIEWS!!!

I'm just sort of laughing and shaking my head here. I think Sugar Mouse is done with this discussion.

[David]

Ok ... Rolling Stone (one of the softest reviewers in the business) gave two of Lindsey's albums 4 out of 5 stars. That's a solid but unspectacular review. Huh?

Again, my original point (which you seem to be ignoring) is simply that Lindsey has had a solid but not critically acclaimed solo career. I'm not ignoring your point. I'm telling you that your point is flat-out wrong. I don't know how much clearer I can be. I appear to be taxing your intellect.

One of the best music critic aggregate websites is BestEverAlbums.com. That sight aggregate ranks Out of The Cradle as Lindsey's best album and puts it as the #6048 album of all-time based on critics' reviews. That's Lindsey's only solo album in the top 10,000.

Stevie, on the other hand, has Bella Donna (aggregate rank at #1653) and The Wild Heart (aggregate rank at #4164). So based on aggregate critics' reviews, Stevie has two albums far ahead of Lindsey's best solo work.

For comparison, they have Rumours ranked at #32 of all-time and Tusk at #565. In fact, they have seven Mac albums ranked ahead of any of the solo albums by Stevie or Lindsey.

Bottom line, neither of them have been solo critical darlings based on these numbers although I don't dispute that Lindsey has been the critical darling for the Mac albums. You're pulling my leg, right? I'm being punked for a reality TV show?

What the hell is this? Sociological data mining?

"This web site's purpose is to achieve a means of establishing the greatest music albums of all time by using legitimate critical sources and calculating a ranking based on the rank and number of times an album has appeared in a 'greatest album' chart and then ranking the albums according to their aggregate performance." (https://www.besteveralbums.com/)

[SteveMacD]

Did you read my earlier comments? You appear not to have, so where do we take this exchange?

Yes, and I think we’re on the same page. My comment was really about the notion of reviews and critical acclaim shouldn’t matter to one’s enjoyment of the music. However, when discussing band politics, Lindsey has consistently gotten great reviews, Stevie less so, but Stevie has sold vastly more albums as a solo artist. That’s been the case since before I ever logged onto the internet.

[SteveMacD]

Sweet Jesus, I’m glad I started drinking before the game I knew my Bengals were going to lose before it even started.

[secondhandchain]

Good luck with Sugar Mick hearing anything you say.

Sugar Mick and Goldust Stevie are a match made in heaven.

[HomerMcvie]

Sugar Mick and Goldust Stevie are a much made in heaven.

They should definitely consider some sort of partnership.

[secondhandchain]

They should definitely consider some sort of partnership.

match i meant!

[DownOnRodeo]

To be honest, Sugar Mouse, I wouldn't even necessarily claim that Lindsey is an EXTRAORDINARY musician (ie instrumentalist), and nor would he. He is the first to note that he is a self-taught, untrained 'noodler,' and that, for example, electric guitar solos have never been his niche.

Lindsey is no Tommy Emmanuel, for example.

So even if we except(edit: accept) the Yale Dissertation that EXTRAORDINARY instrumentalists tend not to be GREAT songwriters, I don't believe that applies to Lindsey Buckingham anyway, who is an impressive and unique instrumentalist but sees himself first and foremost as a crafter of songs--ie the poetry of songwriting and all the rest of it.

And here we have it from the man himself (on Twitter last Thursday):

"I’ve never felt the need to gravitate to a certain instrument in order to write; it’s mostly mental work. On the other hand, the recording of a song usually requires a number of different guitars in order to create the range of textures and colors I’m looking for."

[sodascouts]

Huh?

I'm not ignoring your point. I'm telling you that your point is flat-out wrong. I don't know how much clearer I can be. I appear to be taxing your intellect.

You're pulling my leg, right? I'm being punked for a reality TV show?

What the hell is this? Sociological data mining?

"This web site's purpose is to achieve a means of establishing the greatest music albums of all time by using legitimate critical sources and calculating a ranking based on the rank and number of times an album has appeared in a 'greatest album' chart and then ranking the albums according to their aggregate performance." (https://www.besteveralbums.com/)

We live in an era where many do not bother with any critical examination of the sources they find on the internet, especially if these feeble internet sources support their agenda.

You have produced hard evidence from quality sources and have given information on where to find more. Anyone with discernment at this point knows which person is making an informed and well-supported argument.

For those who lack discernment or who are willfully choosing to remain ignorant, nothing more can be done.

[HomerMcvie]

match i meant!

I know, my friend.

[Sugar Mouse]

We live in an era where many do not bother with any critical examination of the sources they find on the internet, especially if these feeble internet sources support their agenda.

You have produced hard evidence from quality sources and have given information on where to find more. Anyone with discernment at this point knows which person is making an informed and well-supported argument.

For those who lack discernment or who are willfully choosing to remain ignorant, nothing more can be done.

Hard evidence is two Rollling Stone reviews? Again, music review aggregate websites such as Metacritic and BestAlbumsEver.com clearly show that Lindsey has not been critically acclaimed as a solo artist although his work in Fleetwood Mac has obviously been very acclaimed.

[gldstwmn]

If you spent less time watching Neil Finn lecture on why people other than him are not as good at songwriting, and more time listening to Lindsey Buckingham's solo catalog (which is not that extensive), you would have heard all of the latter's solo songs by now. And if after a few listens you still don't think many or any of them are "great," that's your prerogative. The one thing I'm not inclined to do is to attempt arguing my own views on the matter here on Lindsey's Rumours forum with Neil Finn as a constant reference point (explicit or implicit).

I encourage you to start a thread over on the Lindsey solo forum if you'd like to poll people's favorite tracks from his latter years.

Well he might if there was the remotest possibility of feeling welcome there. :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

Who cares about reviews and whatnot?

Rolling Stone gave one of the most amazing reviews I’ve ever seen for “Out Of The Cradle.” Then again, two years earlier, the very same Rolling Stone said that Billy Burnette and Rick Vito were the best thing to ever (EVER!!!) happen to Fleetwood Mac.

What’s good and/or critically acclaimed isn’t the same as what sells. Regardless of the reason, Stevie’s solo music sell$, and Lindsey’s doesn’t.
Agreed. Let's not forget what Rolling Stone said about Layla. And they hated Led Zeppelin.

[gldstwmn]

You're pulling my leg, right? I'm being punked for a reality TV show?

What the hell is this? Sociological data mining?



Oh David. :lol::lol::lol: Who is that guy in your avatar? What happened to Beethoven?

[gldstwmn]

Sugar Mick and Goldust Stevie are a match made in heaven.

Your obsession with me is starting to get a little freaky. :o

[David]

Hard evidence is two Rollling Stone reviews? Again, music review aggregate websites such as Metacritic and BestAlbumsEver.com clearly show that Lindsey has not been critically acclaimed as a solo artist although his work in Fleetwood Mac has obviously been very acclaimed.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2006/sep/29/popandrock.shopping1
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jun/11/lindsey-buckingham-christine-mcvie-observer-review
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/01/arts/music/01decu.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/29/arts/music/lindsey-buckingham-at-town-hall-review.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/12/arts/music/12lind.html?mtrref=www.nytimes.com&mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=69AE211BB3635A237D7ED842F6553B1F&gwt=pay
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/12/arts/music/12lind.html?mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=64A95FEF36D1B8123FF11805B5889521&gwt=pay
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/04/06/arts/review-pop-a-musically-mad-scientist.html?mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=F40FE427EADB90B28A345B6FC6E7526D&gwt=pay
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/21/arts/recordings-view-a-studio-wizard-takes-a-psychic-journey.html
http://americansongwriter.com/2018/10/lindsey-buckingham-solo-anthology-best-lindsey-buckingham/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandjazzmusic/3662244/Is-this-pops-greatest-unsung-visionary.html

I could do this all day. If you were intellectually honest about engaging me in discussion, you could do this work. Instead, you opt for coy, puzzling rejoinders, and link to data mining sites that have nothing to do with professional criticism or the rock press establishment at major pubs. (Your incoherent reference to the "soft reviewer" at Rolling Stone is a real puzzler.) Sorry, buddy, but I'm going to move on to other discussions here on the Ledge for more satisfaction and less bizarre back-and-forth.

[David]

Oh David. :lol::lol::lol: Who is that guy in your avatar? What happened to Beethoven? Beethoven had to come down. I think he had been up there for about twenty years. He was growing cobwebs in his crotch. I debated swapping him out for Erich Auerbach or someone equally arcane, but I don't want people thinking I'm esoteric or odd.

Edit: I'm going with my favorite Fleetwood shot instead.

[Sugar Mouse]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2006/sep/29/popandrock.shopping1
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jun/11/lindsey-buckingham-christine-mcvie-observer-review
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/01/arts/music/01decu.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/29/arts/music/lindsey-buckingham-at-town-hall-review.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/12/arts/music/12lind.html?mtrref=www.nytimes.com&mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=69AE211BB3635A237D7ED842F6553B1F&gwt=pay
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/12/arts/music/12lind.html?mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=64A95FEF36D1B8123FF11805B5889521&gwt=pay
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/04/06/arts/review-pop-a-musically-mad-scientist.html?mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=F40FE427EADB90B28A345B6FC6E7526D&gwt=pay
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/21/arts/recordings-view-a-studio-wizard-takes-a-psychic-journey.html
http://americansongwriter.com/2018/10/lindsey-buckingham-solo-anthology-best-lindsey-buckingham/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandjazzmusic/3662244/Is-this-pops-greatest-unsung-visionary.html

I could do this all day. If you were intellectually honest about engaging me in discussion, you could do this work. Instead, you opt for coy, puzzling rejoinders, and link to data mining sites that have nothing to do with professional criticism or the rock press establishment at major pubs. (Your incoherent reference to the "soft reviewer" at Rolling Stone is a real puzzler.) Sorry, buddy, but I'm going to move on to other discussions here on the Ledge for more satisfaction and less bizarre back-and-forth.

I'm not sure why you resort to attacking my intellectual honesty and saying that I'm not engaging in a discussion with you. I actually am. You may not agree with my assessments but that doesn't mean that I'm not engaging in a discussion. Do you believe that one must agree to be considered "engaging"?

You say that I'm using "data mining sites that have nothing to do with professional criticism" when, in fact, my sources in my prior posts are all about professional criticism.

These websites take the time to analyze all of the major music critical assessments out there and aggregate the scores to give a reasonably objective overall assessment of an album or artist.

Again, you may not like the results but that doesn't make the results untrue or inaccurate. When all major critical assessments are aggregated, Lindsey comes in as a solid but not critically acclaimed artist. That's nothing to be ashamed of.

He's had a solid solo career but it's important to not misrepresent the quality of the music.

I actually read all the links in your last email. Not sure if you actually read them or just linked to them but the reviews say that Lindsey's solo work is generally solid, but not excellent.

For example, the American Songwriter review that you linked says that Lindsey's "Anthology" is a "reasonable but flawed" album. That's about how I would describe Lindsey's solo career; reasonably good, but flawed.

[Sugar Mouse]

Your obsession with me is starting to get a little freaky. :o

I feel the same.

[gldstwmn]

I feel the same.

Amen. :laugh: :wavey:

[HomerMcvie]

I debated swapping him out for Erich Auerbach or someone equally arcane, but I don't want people thinking I'm esoteric or odd.

I think that ship has sailed, my friend. :xoxo:

[TheWildHeart67]

Sugar Mice. SMH.
🤔
Strange rodents of the internet

[sodascouts]

Oh David. :lol::lol::lol: Who is that guy in your avatar? What happened to Beethoven?

I have to admit, when I didn't see Beethoven after his initial dismantling a couple days ago, I quickly double-checked to make sure the post I was reading was by THE David and not some new guy named Dav1d or something lol.

[David]

I'm not sure why you resort to attacking my intellectual honesty and saying that I'm not engaging in a discussion with you. I actually am. You may not agree with my assessments but that doesn't mean that I'm not engaging in a discussion. Do you believe that one must agree to be considered "engaging"?

You say that I'm using "data mining sites that have nothing to do with professional criticism" when, in fact, my sources in my prior posts are all about professional criticism.

These websites take the time to analyze all of the major music critical assessments out there and aggregate the scores to give a reasonably objective overall assessment of an album or artist.

Again, you may not like the results but that doesn't make the results untrue or inaccurate. When all major critical assessments are aggregated, Lindsey comes in as a solid but not critically acclaimed artist. That's nothing to be ashamed of.

He's had a solid solo career but it's important to not misrepresent the quality of the music.

I actually read all the links in your last email. Not sure if you actually read them or just linked to them but the reviews say that Lindsey's solo work is generally solid, but not excellent.

For example, the American Songwriter review that you linked says that Lindsey's "Anthology" is a "reasonable but flawed" album. That's about how I would describe Lindsey's solo career; reasonably good, but flawed.
This is why I say you're intellectually dishonest, deflective, and prone to using dialectical non sequiturs. You demonstrate those qualities in every statement you make here.

You say that I'm using "data mining sites that have nothing to do with professional criticism" when, in fact, my sources in my prior posts are all about professional criticism. Can you provide any more info about the methodology of these sites? How do you aggregate criticism and extrapolate a numerical score? I looked over one of the sites as thoroughly as I could, and was unable to find any info on the sources—the names of critics or the names of publications, although I did see some year-end charts based on Rolling Stone? Do I have that right?

My view is that we can glean an idea of Buckingham's critical reputation by directly reading the important critics from the start of his solo career to the present. Is there something about that approach that you consider indeterminate or not useful for describing the guy's reputation—especially in relation to the solo work of his bandmates? As far as I can see, these sites you linked to are all data mining sites: They sift through a huge number of commercial and noncommercial data and compile databases, extrapolating numerical scores based on statistics or averages or some other formula that users of the site can then use to make purchases. These sites have nothing to do with professional criticism or music journalism. They're marketing sites, and I have a feeling, from what I was able to read, that they mine from visitors to the site and from site account holders. You pay your money, and you get to create your own 'chart.'

He's had a solid solo career but it's important to not misrepresent the quality of the music. You keep using these subjectively shifting weasel words like "solid" and "quality" without giving me a comparison gauge. What do you mean when you say he's had a "solid solo career"? And how am I misrepresenting the quality of the music? I'm not talking about the music per se at all; I'm talking about its reputation among music writers. Telling me that Lindsey has had a "solid solo career" doesn't address my point—repeating it for the umpteenth time here: Critics have always loved him.

I actually read all the links in your last email. Not sure if you actually read them or just linked to them but the reviews say that Lindsey's solo work is generally solid, but not excellent.(sigh) Yes, I read all the links. See what I mean about not engaging me honestly? "Lindsey's solo work is generally solid, but not excellent"? Are you kidding, man? Do I need to pick through quote by quote and hand it to you on a platter?


"This fourth solo album is a small masterpiece of tightly balanced musical contrasts"
"This is another gripping postcard from the edge of paradise"
"The result is a kind of intensely modern folk music, candidly personal, seemingly direct songs that flirt with soul-baring and then retreat into an enveloping cocoon of sound"
"Under the Skin is only Buckingham's fourth solo release in three decades, a distinctive and compelling record that (supporting his self-image as neglected genius) really is one of the overlooked gems of 2006"
"Go Insane is a triumphant culmination of this effort—the richest, most fascinatingly tuneful album of the year"
"Go Insane is a singular mix of Seventies sheen and Eighties edge, enormously inventive in every respect, from the dazzling I Want You and the melodiously cascading Bang the Drum to the furiously eclectic D.W. Suite"


Christ, dude, this kind of adulatory language is all over the landscape since 1981 for Lindsey's solo albums and gigs. Lindsey being a critics' pet isn't a new idea. It's been commonly accepted for decades. Can't you do your own leg work? Data mining? Seriously?

For example, the American Songwriter review that you linked says that Lindsey's "Anthology" is a "reasonable but flawed" album. Now you're just being a dick—deliberately obtuse. Unless you're the kind of guy who would read Swift's Modest Proposal as a book of recipes.

I'll let you carry on with this topic with others. I'm not enjoying the contrarian perversity, and that's all you keep giving me. You remind me more than ever of a guy named Jonathan Todd. I don't know whether you've heard of him, but your online persona is exactly like his was—he made vacuous arguments and used non sequiturs, willfull misunderstandings, perverse assumptions about words (highly individual, shall we say?), and backtracking, moving the goal posts up and back until his opponent didn't know what game was being played. Do you know him?

[David]

I have to admit, when I didn't see Beethoven after his initial dismantling a couple days ago, I quickly double-checked to make sure the post I was reading was by THE David and not some new guy named Dav1d or something lol.
Beethoven represents the past. This is the FUTURE, ladies and gents.

:]

[Street_Dreamer]

I think Lindsey's songwriting prowess has got better as he's matured and helped create a family. I love Law And Order and Go Insane but the material from Under The Skin, Gift Of Screws, Seeds We Sow and Buckingham/McVie reach deeper on a lyrical level. At the same time, his gift as a guitarist and producer has taken more "simple" lyrics and pushed them to a deeper level as well. End Of Time is pretty straight forward lyrically but (and I'm referring to the superior Amazon exclusive instrumental version) Lindsey's playing and production pushes it way over the top. I will say this though, Lindsey could never write a lyric like "the forgotten chimpanzee".

[jmn3]

I will say this though, Lindsey could never write a lyric like "the forgotten chimpanzee".

:lol:

Prolific

[DownOnRodeo]

I have to admit, when I didn't see Beethoven after his initial dismantling a couple days ago, I quickly double-checked to make sure the post I was reading was by THE David and not some new guy named Dav1d or something lol.

Wait, what--I thought this was a different David, who perhaps had made a return after a long absence. :confused::laugh: Now I think about it properly, of course it wouldn't be possible to have the exact same username.

Roll over Beethoven, indeed!

"Not Too Late"
by David

Reading the forums
Saw a review
Said I was esoteric
But nobody knew

Now that's been a problem
Being oddly perceived
Like I go around whistling
Beethoven's Fifth

What am I doing, anyway
Changing my avatar
It's not too late

Now I'm not a cool man
Like the dude in my sig
But I feel there's no room for
An intellectual prig

And there's a need
For songs that are sung
For Ledge posts not posted
For puns not yet punned

What am I doing, anyway
Changing my avatar
It's not too late

My Ledgies look away
They don't know my new face


Unless you(Sugar Mouse) are the kind of guy who would read Swift's Modest Proposal as a book of recipes.

That's exactly the impression I keep coming away with.

[secondhandchain]

Your obsession with me is starting to get a little freaky. :o

Your obsession with SN got freaky a LONG time ago. :lol:

[secondhandchain]

Your obsession with me is starting to get a little freaky. :o

You want freaky? I should quote that really bizzare post you wrote the other day. OOFA

[Sugar Mouse]

This is why I say you're intellectually dishonest, deflective, and prone to using dialectical non sequiturs. You demonstrate those qualities in every statement you make here.

Can you provide any more info about the methodology of these sites? How do you aggregate criticism and extrapolate a numerical score? I looked over one of the sites as thoroughly as I could, and was unable to find any info on the sources—the names of critics or the names of publications, although I did see some year-end charts based on Rolling Stone? Do I have that right?

My view is that we can glean an idea of Buckingham's critical reputation by directly reading the important critics from the start of his solo career to the present. Is there something about that approach that you consider indeterminate or not useful for describing the guy's reputation—especially in relation to the solo work of his bandmates? As far as I can see, these sites you linked to are all data mining sites: They sift through a huge number of commercial and noncommercial data and compile databases, extrapolating numerical scores based on statistics or averages or some other formula that users of the site can then use to make purchases. These sites have nothing to do with professional criticism or music journalism. They're marketing sites, and I have a feeling, from what I was able to read, that they mine from visitors to the site and from site account holders. You pay your money, and you get to create your own 'chart.'

You keep using these subjectively shifting weasel words like "solid" and "quality" without giving me a comparison gauge. What do you mean when you say he's had a "solid solo career"? And how am I misrepresenting the quality of the music? I'm not talking about the music per se at all; I'm talking about its reputation among music writers. Telling me that Lindsey has had a "solid solo career" doesn't address my point—repeating it for the umpteenth time here: Critics have always loved him.

(sigh) Yes, I read all the links. See what I mean about not engaging me honestly? "Lindsey's solo work is generally solid, but not excellent"? Are you kidding, man? Do I need to pick through quote by quote and hand it to you on a platter?


"This fourth solo album is a small masterpiece of tightly balanced musical contrasts"
"This is another gripping postcard from the edge of paradise"
"The result is a kind of intensely modern folk music, candidly personal, seemingly direct songs that flirt with soul-baring and then retreat into an enveloping cocoon of sound"
"Under the Skin is only Buckingham's fourth solo release in three decades, a distinctive and compelling record that (supporting his self-image as neglected genius) really is one of the overlooked gems of 2006"
"Go Insane is a triumphant culmination of this effort—the richest, most fascinatingly tuneful album of the year"
"Go Insane is a singular mix of Seventies sheen and Eighties edge, enormously inventive in every respect, from the dazzling I Want You and the melodiously cascading Bang the Drum to the furiously eclectic D.W. Suite"


Christ, dude, this kind of adulatory language is all over the landscape since 1981 for Lindsey's solo albums and gigs. Lindsey being a critics' pet isn't a new idea. It's been commonly accepted for decades. Can't you do your own leg work? Data mining? Seriously?

Now you're just being a dick—deliberately obtuse. Unless you're the kind of guy who would read Swift's Modest Proposal as a book of recipes.

I'll let you carry on with this topic with others. I'm not enjoying the contrarian perversity, and that's all you keep giving me. You remind me more than ever of a guy named Jonathan Todd. I don't know whether you've heard of him, but your online persona is exactly like his was—he made vacuous arguments and used non sequiturs, willfull misunderstandings, perverse assumptions about words (highly individual, shall we say?), and backtracking, moving the goal posts up and back until his opponent didn't know what game was being played. Do you know him?

I'm not sure why other people disagreeing with you is so upsetting to you.

[HomerMcvie]

I'm not sure why other people disagreeing with you is so upsetting to you.

Maybe it's just YOU. Because you rub MOST people here the wrong way. You know that, right?

[elle]

This is why I say you're intellectually dishonest, deflective, and prone to using dialectical non sequiturs. You demonstrate those qualities in every statement you make here.

Can you provide any more info about the methodology of these sites? How do you aggregate criticism and extrapolate a numerical score? I looked over one of the sites as thoroughly as I could, and was unable to find any info on the sources—the names of critics or the names of publications, although I did see some year-end charts based on Rolling Stone? Do I have that right?

My view is that we can glean an idea of Buckingham's critical reputation by directly reading the important critics from the start of his solo career to the present. Is there something about that approach that you consider indeterminate or not useful for describing the guy's reputation—especially in relation to the solo work of his bandmates? As far as I can see, these sites you linked to are all data mining sites: They sift through a huge number of commercial and noncommercial data and compile databases, extrapolating numerical scores based on statistics or averages or some other formula that users of the site can then use to make purchases. These sites have nothing to do with professional criticism or music journalism. They're marketing sites, and I have a feeling, from what I was able to read, that they mine from visitors to the site and from site account holders. You pay your money, and you get to create your own 'chart.'

You keep using these subjectively shifting weasel words like "solid" and "quality" without giving me a comparison gauge. What do you mean when you say he's had a "solid solo career"? And how am I misrepresenting the quality of the music? I'm not talking about the music per se at all; I'm talking about its reputation among music writers. Telling me that Lindsey has had a "solid solo career" doesn't address my point—repeating it for the umpteenth time here: Critics have always loved him.

(sigh) Yes, I read all the links. See what I mean about not engaging me honestly? "Lindsey's solo work is generally solid, but not excellent"? Are you kidding, man? Do I need to pick through quote by quote and hand it to you on a platter?


"This fourth solo album is a small masterpiece of tightly balanced musical contrasts"
"This is another gripping postcard from the edge of paradise"
"The result is a kind of intensely modern folk music, candidly personal, seemingly direct songs that flirt with soul-baring and then retreat into an enveloping cocoon of sound"
"Under the Skin is only Buckingham's fourth solo release in three decades, a distinctive and compelling record that (supporting his self-image as neglected genius) really is one of the overlooked gems of 2006"
"Go Insane is a triumphant culmination of this effort—the richest, most fascinatingly tuneful album of the year"
"Go Insane is a singular mix of Seventies sheen and Eighties edge, enormously inventive in every respect, from the dazzling I Want You and the melodiously cascading Bang the Drum to the furiously eclectic D.W. Suite"


Christ, dude, this kind of adulatory language is all over the landscape since 1981 for Lindsey's solo albums and gigs. Lindsey being a critics' pet isn't a new idea. It's been commonly accepted for decades. Can't you do your own leg work? Data mining? Seriously?

Now you're just being a dick—deliberately obtuse. Unless you're the kind of guy who would read Swift's Modest Proposal as a book of recipes.

I'll let you carry on with this topic with others. I'm not enjoying the contrarian perversity, and that's all you keep giving me. You remind me more than ever of a guy named Jonathan Todd. I don't know whether you've heard of him, but your online persona is exactly like his was—he made vacuous arguments and used non sequiturs, willfull misunderstandings, perverse assumptions about words (highly individual, shall we say?), and backtracking, moving the goal posts up and back until his opponent didn't know what game was being played. Do you know him?

before even reading your latest addition here, i gotta say David, you are about the sole reason these days i even veer anywhere into these cesspools outside the happy sunny positive LB forum. always such refreshing, leveled, educated and eloquent reads. thank you for coming back here there days! :xoxo: :wavey:

[Sugar Mouse]

Maybe it's just YOU. Because you rub MOST people here the wrong way. You know that, right?

Yes, it's very sad that haters are going to hate.

[HomerMcvie]

Yes, it's very sad that haters are going to hate.

Haters hate it when a crotch itch won't stop. #cruex

[Sugar Mouse]

Haters hate it when a crotch itch won't stop. #cruex

I rest my case ...

[HomerMcvie]

I rest my case ...

Now if you could only try that with posting your Finn love in the wrong forum.

[secondhandchain]

Sugar Mick doesn’t get it. #annoyingAF

[gldstwmn]

Yes, it's very sad that haters are going to hate.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/d7OhTqS1F9o" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And a Mike Campbell co-write to boot! :woohoo:

[secondhandchain]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/d7OhTqS1F9o" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And a Mike Campbell co-write to boot! :woohoo:

Yes she loves mike Campbell. Why do you I think she got Lindsey fired? The old goat has no shame anymore.

[sands of time]

Yes, it's very sad that haters are going to hate.

You're stupid.

[gldstwmn]

Your obsession with SN got freaky a LONG time ago. :lol:

And? :confused::confused::confused: Isn't that what we're all doing here? Fanatically loving someone's music?

[HomerMcvie]

Yes she loves mike Campbell. Why do you I think she got Lindsey fired? The old goat has no shame anymore.

$tevie cares about one person. $tevie. Stupid old goat.

Fleetwood Mac is clearly HER band now. #gameover

[secondhandchain]

And? :confused::confused::confused: Isn't that what we're all doing here? Fanatically loving someone's music?

Wrong again. I loved Stevie , but then she turned out to be a jerk. Hence I didn’t let my fandom get in the way of seeing her for what she really is. I wasn’t just an LB fan, I was a fan of all of them. You on ther other hand...like our president says she could shoot someone on 5 th avenue and you would still defend her.

[jwd]

Can we get 100?! :wavey:

#Team Lindsey!

[michelej1]

Thrown down, like a barricade.

[jwd]

Thrown down, like a barricade.

I LOVE YOU!! :xoxo:

[BaronVonBielski]

Are you Team Lindsey or Team Fleetwood Mac? Who are u routing for in the lawsuit?

I’d rather he not sued at all. I’d rather see him just walk away with more dignity than seeming like the jilted ex girlfriend who’ll do anything to get back with their ex. That said I’m always on Lindsey’s side. Why was it okay for Stevie to control things with her absence? Her solo tour kept the band from touring and even turned an FM album to a duet with 4/5 members. Then Lindsey decides to do something with his solo career and it’s not okay? And to top it off she’s going to get in the RARHOF as a solo artist? I find that undeserving to say the least. My opinion.

[HejiraNYC]

I’d rather he not sued at all. I’d rather see him just walk away with more dignity than seeming like the jilted ex girlfriend who’ll do anything to get back with their ex. That said I’m always on Lindsey’s side. Why was it okay for Stevie to control things with her absence? Her solo tour kept the band from touring and even turned an FM album to a duet with 4/5 members. Then Lindsey decides to do something with his solo career and it’s not okay? And to top it off she’s going to get in the RARHOF as a solo artist? I find that undeserving to say the least. My opinion.

So, please, give me your sources on that accusation. The general rule is that FM tours every 3 years, give or take (the 2014-2015 tour was an exception due to Christine). So it's been 3 years since the On with the Show tour, so this current tour is happening according to schedule. Keep in mind that Stevie's last solo album was released right in the middle of the last Fleetwood Mac tour. Did she whine and complain about not being able to do a solo tour or cut the tour short? No, because that FM tour went on for over a year. So not only did she participate in back-to-back FM tours in 2013 and 2014-2015, she recorded and released a solo album that she didn't promote due to her obligations with FM. That is a 180-degree contrast with what Lindsey is trying to do.

Regarding the RRHOF, you don't think that her solo career hasn't been successful or influential? "Edge of Seventeen" alone was the inspiration for two movies and a Broadway musical. She's released multiple platinum and gold Top 10 solo albums and continues to play arenas as a solo act. Many artists age out of the system or eventually fade away into obscurity; Stevie has continued to work consistently and her influence as a singer and songwriter is acknowledged among many of her peers. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge, objectively, the merits of her RRHOF nomination really defies credibility.

[HomerMcvie]

I'd love to see your shrine. Really. I'll bet it's amazing! I am being serious.

[The Chain]

So, please, give me your sources on that accusation. The general rule is that FM tours every 3 years, give or take (the 2014-2015 tour was an exception due to Christine). So it's been 3 years since the On with the Show tour, so this current tour is happening according to schedule. Keep in mind that Stevie's last solo album was released right in the middle of the last Fleetwood Mac tour. Did she whine and complain about not being able to do a solo tour or cut the tour short? No, because that FM tour went on for over a year. So not only did she participate in back-to-back FM tours in 2013 and 2014-2015, she recorded and released a solo album that she didn't promote due to her obligations with FM. That is a 180-degree contrast with what Lindsey is trying to do.


the more important point you (purposefully, I'm sure) ignored was that your idol destroyed our chance of getting a final album from the Rumours lineup. There's really no spinning that one :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

the more important point you (purposefully, I'm sure) ignored was that your idol destroyed our chance of getting a final album from the Rumours lineup. There's really no spinning that one :shrug:

You already got one. Its called Say You Will. It almost never materialized because your idol threatened to hold the masters hostage and showed that he no longer had the magic touch when it came to the production of the songs. John Shanks saved What's the World Coming to and preserved the Brian Wilson like feel to the song (it reminds me of Palisades Park). Chris Lord Alge mixed Destiny Rules to perfection. If that song isn't a Fleetwood Mac song I don't know what is. "The Master" ruined Smile At You and Shanks was once again tapped to finish Everybody Finds Out. Sure Murrow and Miranda are great and Bleed to Love Her is classic in the FM vein. I mean with 18 songs some were bound to be good if not even great. I did like his work on Thrown Down. The Chris Lord Alge remix of Say You Will is superior to the album version. There's a reason this is the last Rumours era record. The situation became completely untenable. And while Christine is on the record it's a crime they they didn't really let her record.

[John Run]

You already got one. It Shanks was once again tapped to finish Everybody Finds Out.

That's interesting seeing that Shanks did not work on Everybody Finds Out. He CO-producded with Buckingham two Lindsey compositions What's the World Coming To and Peacekeeper. He added keyboards to World and guitar to Peacekeeper.

I know you are passionate about this fight but Stevie is going to be just fine without you and Lindsey is going to be just fine without Stevie or his sycophants here and you don't have to tear him down at each turn with half-truthed narratives.