Lindsey discusses his firing (Rolling Stone)

[DownOnRodeo]

This October 10 Rolling Stone article featuring Lindsey has already been posted by BigAl84 in the "LB speaks at meet and greet" thread in the Rumours forum and by kak125 in the "New Lindsey article in Rolling Stone" thread in the LB forum.

But I thought it warranted its own thread in this forum, because it's buried in the middle of the thread in the Rumours forum, and because the thread in the LB forum can focus on the new solo album etc.

============================

Lindsey Buckingham: Life After Fleetwood Mac

Lindsey Buckingham and his wife, Kristen, were at home in Los Angeles on January 28th, watching the Grammy Awards ceremony on television, when the phone rang. Fleetwood Mac’s manager Irving Azoff was calling with a message for Buckingham from Stevie Nicks. The gist of it, Buckingham says, quoting Azoff: “Stevie never wants to be on a stage with you again.”

Two nights earlier, the most popular and enduring lineup of Fleetwood Mac — Nicks, Buckingham, singer-keyboard player Christine McVie, bassist John McVie and drummer Mick Fleetwood — performed in New York at a MusiCares benefit show honoring the group. “We rehearsed for two days, and everything was great,” Buckingham claims. “We were getting along great.”

But on the phone, Azoff had a list of things that, as Buckingham puts it, “Stevie took issue with” that evening, including the guitarist’s outburst just before the band’s set over the intro music — the studio recording of Nicks’ “Rhiannon” — and the way he “smirked” during Nicks’ thank-you speech. Buckingham concedes the first point. “It wasn’t about it being ‘Rhiannon,’ ” he says. “It just undermined the impact of our entrance. That’s me being very specific about the right and wrong way to do something.”

As for smirking, “The irony is that we have this standing joke that Stevie, when she talks, goes on a long time,” Buckingham says. “I may or may not have smirked. But I look over and Christine and Mick are doing the waltz behind her as a joke.”

At the end of that call, Buckingham assumed Nicks was quitting Fleetwood Mac. He wrote an e-mail to Fleetwood assuring the drummer that the group could continue. There was no reply. A couple of days later, Buckingham says, “I called Irving and said, ‘This feels funny. Is Stevie leaving the band, or am I getting kicked out?’ ” Azoff told the guitarist he was “getting ousted” and that Nicks gave the rest of the band “an ultimatum: Either you go or she’s gonna go.”

Asked if those were Azoff’s exact words, Buckingham responds, “Pretty much. I don’t remember his exact words, but that was the message.” In April, Fleetwood Mac announced a major North American tour with two new guitarists: Neil Finn, formerly of Crowded House, and Mike Campbell, from Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.

Azoff and the other members of Fleetwood Mac declined to comment for this story on Buckingham’s account of his dismissal. But in April, Fleetwood — who co-founded the group in 1967 with original guitarist Peter Green — told Rolling Stone that the band hit an “impasse” with Buckingham. “This was not a happy situation for us in terms of the logistics of a functioning band.” The drummer did not elaborate but said, “We made a decision that we could not go on with him.”


Buckingham’s romantic and musical partner when the two joined the Mac in 1975 — cited a disagreement over tour plans, saying Buckingham wanted too much time off for solo work. But, she added, “Our relationship has always been volatile. We were never married, but we might as well have been. Some couples get divorced after 40 years. They break their kids’ hearts and destroy everyone around them because it’s just hard.”

Buckingham confirms that, at a band meeting in late 2017 — shortly after a series of shows with McVie to promote their project, Lindsey Buckingham/Christine McVie — he asked for “three or four months extra” to do solo dates. There was “stonewalling,” he claims. “I left the meeting because there was nothing else to talk about.”

But he insists that Fleetwood Mac always “came first. And I don’t think there was ever anything that was just cause to be fired. We have all done things that were not constructive. All of us have worn on each other’s psyches at times. That’s the history of the group.”

It is a warm late-summer morning, and Buckingham, who turned 69 on October 3rd, is sitting on the patio behind his house in a hilly neighborhood in West Los Angeles, giving his version — on the record for the first time — of his exit from Fleetwood Mac. Later in the day, he will rehearse with his own band for a fall tour to promote Solo Anthology: The Best of Lindsey Buckingham, a compilation drawn from records he has made outside the Mac since the early Eighties. The guitarist had completed a new solo album, tentatively called Blue Light, when he was cut loose. It will come out next year.


“Am I heartbroken about not doing another tour with Fleetwood Mac? No,” Buckingham says, “because I can see that there are many other areas to look into.” But, he goes on, “The one thing that does bother me and breaks my heart is we spent 43 years always finding a way to rise above our personal differences and our difficulties to pursue and articulate a higher truth. That is our legacy. That is what the songs are about. This is not the way you end something like this.”

Buckingham says he tried to contact Nicks, without success. On February 28th, a month after first writing to Fleetwood, Buckingham sent the drummer another e-mail expressing those sentiments and his frustration with the band’s “radio silence.” There was no response. Since their last show together, at MusiCares, Buckingham has not spoken to any of his former bandmates.

On September 5th, Fleetwood Mac’s new lineup made its television debut on Ellen. Buckingham did not watch it. His wife did. “I was just sad,” Kristen says. “I was thinking, ‘How did they get here?’ ” Kristen and Lindsey met in 1996, not long before the guitarist — who quit Fleetwood Mac in 1987 — rejoined, leading to the 1997 live reunion album, The Dance. “Even though we didn’t see them very often,” Kristen says of the other members, “it was still a family of sorts.” The Buckinghams’ three children “called them aunts and uncles.”

It is still a small world. But it has become awkward. The husband of Lindsey’s niece is a drum technician on Fleetwood Mac’s road crew. Buckingham’s advice to him: “Mick is still a great guy. Don’t be anything other than a centered, grounded person for him. Do your job well.” Also, John McVie and the Buckinghams are neighbors. The bassist’s home is “literally 300 yards from here,” the guitarist says, pointing through his house to the other side of the street.

Kristen recently ran into John’s wife, Julie, at a local nail salon. “My heart sank a bit,” Kristen says. “She said hello. I asked about her daughter — it was neutral ground.” But when Julie mentioned the tour, “She must have seen my face: ‘Oh, how is Lindsey doing?’ I didn’t want to sugarcoat it. I just said, ‘You know, not great.’ ”


“I had a visceral reaction to it for a long time,” Buckingham says, “completely hurt. I’d be fine for a while, and then it would come back.” He was also “disappointed” in what he calls “the disproportion in what happened and anything you can put on me in terms of behavior and the scale of what went on.”

Buckingham is not the first member of Fleetwood Mac to be fired. Guitarist Danny Kirwan was canned by Fleetwood in 1972 for alcoholism and violent behavior. (Kirwan died in June.) In 1973, singer Bob Weston got his pink slip after he had an affair with Fleetwood’s then-wife. Buckingham, in turn, has a long-standing reputation as a hard case, uncompromising and quick to ignite. He took over Fleetwood Mac’s musical direction after the megaplatinum sales of the group’s 1977 album, Rumours, pushing for the New Wave risk of 1979’s Tusk. After that record’s muted success, the guitarist made his first solo album, 1981’s Law and Order, because, he says, “I was pissed off” at what he saw as the band’s creative retreat. “Was I biting the hand that fed me? Oh, yeah.”

Kristen acknowledges that Lindsey was “definitely edgier when I met him,” adding that marriage and fatherhood “softened” that. Still, she admits, “He’s always been a prickly guy. That’s the truth.”

Practicing for his solo tour at a studio in Burbank, Buckingham is relaxed and chatty as he runs down the opening numbers in a 23-song set list with two members of his band, keyboard player Brett Tuggle and bassist Federico Pol. (Drummer Jimmy Paxson will arrive in a few days.) Buckingham is also focused on the details in the music, singing with his eyes shut tight in concentration and looking intently at his guitar as he picks the Bach-like introduction of “Don’t Look Down,” from 1992’s Out of the Cradle.

Buckingham is literally a solo artist in that he records mostly at home, singing and playing virtually all of the parts, and he is an obvious perfectionist in rehearsal as he stops songs to resolve the timing of a part or the volume in his monitors. It is easy to see how, in a historically dysfunctional setting like Fleetwood Mac, that kind of intensity could spill over into dissension and stalemate.


Ironically, when Buckingham starts his solo tour in early October, in Portland, Oregon, it is within days of the new Fleetwood Mac’s opening night, in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The latter are playing arenas into next spring. Buckingham is appearing in theaters such as New York’s Town Hall. “That’s the story of my solo work: You lose nine-tenths of the listeners,” Buckingham concedes. The set list he rehearses in Burbank includes songs that he could be playing with Fleetwood Mac right now: “Big Love,” “Tusk,” “Go Your Own Way.” But the encores are from solo albums. One, from 2008’s Gift of Screws, is called “Treason.”

“It is not my place or intent to open that door,” Buckingham says of his former band. “I’ve done my best to reach out to them.” He has not “technically closed the book on anything. Nor would I. But I am not planning that anything will change from what it is now.”

Buckingham knows there will be moments on his solo tour, backstage, when well-meaning fans will hand him a copy of Rumours to sign. And “that’s OK,” he says. “Somebody handing me Rumours has no effect on anything more than it ever would have. It is just an affirmation that we’ve done our job right.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...firing-733460/

[DownOnRodeo]

Just transposing some of the comments on this from the "LB speaks at meet and greet" thread.

===================

Homer McVie
Pretty much what we've speculated all along. Thanks for posting that!

Neal
And there we have it.
At least 50% of the truth, from one of the horses mouths.

jbrownsjr
Hmmmm and yet the folks with close friends or employees of the band don't know what they are talking about. They just want to blame that poor excu$e for a human being.
Thank you LB!!! For not trying to PR around it. Blunt. And, oh what do you know??? They were already rehearsing for the tour. So, this whole lie that FM spread was just that. A lie.

wilsonmac
Buckingham’s advice to the husband of his niece who is on the Mac tour as a drum tech:
“Mick is still a great guy. Don’t be anything other than a centered, grounded person for him. Do your job well.”
Top class Mr. Buckingham. Proud to be a fan of yours

dreamsunwind
Wow. Reading that hurt my heart a little :(
Just to hear it directly that she did do that. And over absolutely nothing worth it either. So sad.

Neal
It's actually pretty sad/pitiable that Stevie has obviously been carrying around so much animosity and anger for all of these years. :(
But I still can't get over the way it was handled. My sympathy is minimal... :(

Storms123
I love Stevie, but She droned on like a loon at Musicare.. Mick and Christine, who were OPENLY mocking her are still there. And just actually proves the "head space" comments that many here have alluded too.
Lindsey's daughter posted a video of Stevie on her IG from that night and called her "My Queen".
He's encouraging Steve Rincon (drum tech married to Cory Buckingham) how to engage and say "Mick's a good guy" Cooler heads prevail, and in this case, Lindsey proves to be the grown up. I mean---they email each other, over something as important as this.
Spoiled brats...all of them.

jbrownsjr
It goes back to BuckVie. I feel it in my bones. $he's a jealous angry fool. If I'm not doing the album, you're not doing the tour. Don't pi$$ off $tevie. Not even Lindsey can get away with it.

[sodascouts]

It's even worse than what I speculated, because I at least thought there was a real fight.... not "he smirked at me."

I am beyond disgusted with Stevie.

I am never seeing Fleetwood Mac again.

[bombaysaffires]

aaaannndddd....... waiting for the inevitable "but how do we know that's what happened? He could be making it all up. Of course he's going to say it's Stevie" blah bah blah blah blah.

The "he smirked at me!" is so pathetic it's hilarious. It's like when you're five f'ing years old and you whine to your mommy "he's looking at me!" WTF.

So, the ultimatum was real, the lies about rehearsals were real, the being surprised was real, and him having a rant at Musicares was real.

Stevie "I'm not the boss in the band"...... total lie.

[wilsonmac]

aaaannndddd....... waiting for the inevitable "but how do we know that's what happened? He could be making it all up. Of course he's going to say it's Stevie" blah bah blah blah blah.

The "he smirked at me!" is so pathetic it's hilarious. It's like when you're five f'ing years old and you whine to your mommy "he's looking at me!" WTF.

So, the ultimatum was real, the lies about rehearsals were real, the being surprised was real, and him having a rant at Musicares was real.

Stevie "I'm not the boss in the band"...... total lie.

Exactly. Stevie Nicks must be a very unhappy person. Grow up

[FuzzyPlum]

Can all the Stevie apologists now just give it a break for a while and see the wood for the trees?

[DownOnRodeo]

Am I heartbroken about not doing another tour with Fleetwood Mac? No, because I can see that there are many other areas to look into. The one thing that does bother me and breaks my heart is we spent 43 years always finding a way to rise above our personal differences and our difficulties to pursue and articulate a higher truth. That is our legacy. That is what the songs are about. This is not the way you end something like this.

As wilsonmac says, never been prouder to be a predominately Lindsey fan.

[Buster]

I’m no Stevie apologist and I hate what has gone down. I’m also unclear why there is an immediate assumption that what Lindsey said is the whole story.

[FuzzyPlum]

I'm most disappointed with Christine. I'd have though she'd have at least had some contact with him. Doesn't sound like it.
What a complete load sh!t

[dreamsunwind]

It's hard for me to wrap my head around ANYONE being that petty, much less a 70 year old woman.

I appreciate Lindsey's honesty here and the fact that he managed to remain classy about the rest of them in spite of what's happened. And I appreciate that he seems to be the only one with a genuine concern about the legacy of the band and the fans.

[Buster]

She needs to check herself into a facility. I’m serious. As mad as I am about Lindsey being ousted this way, i know mental health issues when I see them. This woman has been through a LOT, and I’m sure that the loss of one of her best friends has to be hurting her deeply. These might be open wounds that were never healed form her relationship with Lindsey.

Lindsey is right - this is a really sad way to go and will affect the music history books...

Ridiculous. When people start claiming mental illness without knowing the whole story (and clearly knowing little about mental health), this has gone off the rails.

[Storms123]

aaaannndddd....... waiting for the inevitable "but how do we know that's what happened? He could be making it all up. Of course he's going to say it's Stevie" blah bah blah blah blah.

The "he smirked at me!" is so pathetic it's hilarious. It's like when you're five f'ing years old and you whine to your mommy "he's looking at me!" WTF.

So, the ultimatum was real, the lies about rehearsals were real, the being surprised was real, and him having a rant at Musicares was real.

Stevie "I'm not the boss in the band"...... total lie.

I can't wait for that.....he referenced Azoff's words, while not quoting directly, soooooooo, if the band were to try to refute his (LB) comments, but he references what Azoff told him....$lippery $lope for the band. And Azoff is 100% aware Lindsey gave this interview....I am 100% sure of it.

[DownOnRodeo]

Ridiculous. When people start claiming mental illness without knowing the whole story (and clearly knowing little about mental health), this has gone off the rails.

I think his very point is that it is Stevie who, sadly, has gone off the rails.
Furthermore she is surrounded only by enablers now.

[Neal]

Stevie "I'm not the boss in the band"...... total lie.

Right?!

This makes her comment during the CBS interview all the more bizarre. I wanted to think her dramatic pause was borne of guilt - deflecting partial blame so she doesn't look like the bad guy - but the person I've seen onstage this past week appears to be having the time of her life... :shrug:

[Feather Blade]

It's even worse than what I speculated, because I at least thought there was a real fight.... not "he smirked at me."

I am beyond disgusted with Stevie.

I am never seeing Fleetwood Mac again.

I am curious about the exact nature of the "outburst" over the music intro. Sadly there were no details about that.

[bombaysaffires]

well, her PR team is not shy about protecting their girl no matter the cost. So my bet is we haven't heard the last of this; Stevie's team is working out their response...... but given how long and coldly she waited to take her shot to oust him, her inevitable hit back at him may not come right away, but when she figures he's most vulnerable. Guarantee it. Maybe at her RRHOF induction speech. She'll put enough distance between his comments and hers to have plausible deniability that the two are related. (And her apologists will blindly believe her). But She will not let this stand as the last word.

[Angel75]

I'm most disappointed with Christine. I'd have though she'd have at least had some contact with him. Doesn't sound like it.
What a complete load sh!t

ESPECIALLY when the reasons for his firing are beyond childish and petty. When Mick eventually relayed the reasons and story to Chris about what went down...surely you would laugh out loud and go don't be so Bl&%dy ridiculous...lock them in a room and get them to sort this out...this is no reason to destroy the band.

You would DO SOMETHING TO STOP IT. He was your good friend.

[Angel75]

Can all the Stevie apologists now just give it a break for a while and see the wood for the trees?

Exactly...Sugar Mouse can you now stand up and admit that LB did not insist on a Nov 2019 tour delay?

[Alison]

I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship. I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.

[BigAl84]

http://i63.tinypic.com/2djas0h.png

[SteveMacD]

You would DO SOMETHING TO STOP IT. He was your good friend.

But they weren’t good friends. They were collaborators and had a great musical chemistry, but they weren’t especially close whenever they weren’t working. Christine has said this numerous times. She talked with Mick frequently throughout her retirement, with the occasional communications with John and Stevie, but never with Lindsey.

[BigAl84]

I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship. I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.

Still....not the way you handle that situation as an adult. A 70 year old adult.

[dreamsunwind]

But they weren’t good friends. They were collaborators and had a great musical chemistry, but they weren’t especially close whenever they weren’t working. Christine has said this numerous times. She talked with Mick frequently throughout her retirement, with the occasional communications with John and Stevie, but never with Lindsey.

Speaking for myself, if I had known anyone for 4 decades and worked alongside them so much, I'd automatically consider that person a good friend, regardless of how often we may hang out and chat on our own. That's a long, long time to know and work with someone.

[WatchChain]

As I stated earlier, this is the first Fleetwood Mac tour in 40 years (including TIME) that I HAVE NOT purchased tickets to. I have almost broken down 2 times and made the purchase. After reading this, I am really glad that I did not. I won't be contributing anymore funds to this dysfunction. NONE of these people are innocent....NONE.

The firing of Lindsey Buckingham is an outrage. However, this is not the only issue here. Before this writing, I had noticed Mick and Christine doing The Waltz during Stevie's speech--I knew exactly what they were referring to because she does ramble. I certainly have NOT been a Stevie defender, but mocking her behind her back onstage while she's giving a speech is toxic. What Mick and Chris were doing was worse that Lindsey's supposed "smirk".

Whatever the case, I won't contribute money to this toxicity in the form of ticket sales.

[Alison]

Still....not the way you handle that situation as an adult. A 70 year old adult.

True, but when a person has had lots of trauma or abuse in their lives they kinda are stunted emotionally. So she doesn't seem to have the skills to work through issues that may come her way. So she just reacts.

[bombaysaffires]

I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship. I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.


She herself has said this is true of BOTH of them. She pushes his buttons and vice versa. So the blade could cut both ways on that one.

I bet most members of the band are tired of the ongoing emotional nonsense.

Your assumption is that it was perfectly reasonable for her to demand that the band choose between her or him. Would you feel the same if he was the one who had made the demand, and it resulted in her being booted? Coz she's done just as much. She just masks it better, and has always been far, far, far better at playing the press. Go back and read articles over the years where she was unhappy with something on an album and in order to get her way she would give the band an ultimatum "How's it going to look when I go to Rolling Stone and bad mouth this record?" Even Mick describes her doing this in his first book.

I was always a Stevie fan, and I think she's a turd for doing this. I'd feel the same if he pitched a fit and whined that Stevie talks too long onstage, I don't want to be onstage with her again. Come on.

And the rest of those money grubbers going along with it.

I mean, "Stevie never wants to be on a stage with you again." WTF? Not even "Stevie doesn't want to be in the band together anymore".

Whatever happened to all of HER constant comments in interviews about "One of us will be 80 sitting on a bed alone when the other one dies".

What changed? He got married and had kids, that's a big thing. Once they were never, ever going to rekindle anything, she was done.

[StevieandChris]

I am curious about the exact nature of the "outburst" over the music intro. Sadly there were no details about that.

Exactly. Naturally, the LB fan club here skips over that and focuses only on the smirk. It was obviously not just the smirk that lead us to this point. Note that the article says “including.” Not everything has been revealed about his behavior:

As Buckingham told Rolling Stone, a few days after the show he received a phone call from manager Irving Azoff, who proceeded to list various issues Nicks had with his behavior that night, including his complaints about their intro music being Nicks’ “Rhiannon” and that he may have “smirked” while she was giving her acceptance speech.

[FuzzyPlum]

But they weren’t good friends. They were collaborators and had a great musical chemistry, but they weren’t especially close whenever they weren’t working. Christine has said this numerous times. She talked with Mick frequently throughout her retirement, with the occasional communications with John and Stevie, but never with Lindsey.

Maybe they weren't good friends, but I've no reason to believe they disliked each other. When you spend a year making a record with somebody and then do a tour with them there has to be some sort of relationship on some level. Unless they had a falling out on that tour (which I don't believe for one minute), her not being in contact after what went down is just bloody weird.
...Isn't that weird?

[StevieandChris]

Can all the Stevie apologists now just give it a break for a while and see the wood for the trees?

No. There is no reason to. He’s been an asshole for 40 years and she’s sick of it. She likes the remaining four members (now 6) so why should SHE quit?

[HomerMcvie]

Whatever happened to all of HER constant comments in interviews about "One of us will be 80 sitting on a bed alone when the other one dies".

What changed? He got married and had kids, that's a big thing. Once they were never, ever going to rekindle anything, she was done.
This.

He finally grew up and got a LIFE. She never did. She's still a child. She HATES that he got a real life, and she didn't.

[Angel75]

True, but when a person has had lots of trauma or abuse in their lives they kinda are stunted emotionally. So she doesn't seem to have the skills to work through issues that may come her way. So she just reacts.

Lots of abuse in their lives....I dont buy that, the only abuse shes had is self inflicted...drug abuse

[Alison]

Your assumption is that it was perfectly reasonable for her to demand that the band choose between her or him

I never made that assumption at all!!!
I was just stating how I can see how Stevie must have felt or come to the decision that she made.

[editme2]

This was an incredibly sad read. I tend to be more of a Stevie fan, but I felt heartbroken for Lindsey after reading his account of what happened. I wish him nothing but the best. His legacy as both a member of Fleetwood Mac and a solo artist is secure no matter what path he follows into the future.

This is in no way a defense of Stevie or her actions, but I think Tom Petty's death really affected her. I think that, as she has noted, she has reached a point, at least in her professional life, where she no longer wants to do things that make her personally unhappy or stressed or uncomfortable. Unfortunately, her first victim was Lindsey. I just wish she would own the role she played in his ousting and not continue to lie and push a narrative that puts the blame on Lindsey ("he wanted us to wait a year to tour!").

If true, her reasons for "never wanting to be on another stage with Lindsey again" were petty and childish, and the band's behavior since his firing is abhorrent. Come on, people! Email the guy back or give him a call and talk it out. Given what he did for all of you, he deserves a conversation, even if it's a final one.

[BigAl84]

Lots of abuse in their lives....I dont buy that, the only abuse shes had is self inflicted...drug abuse

Oh man....be prepared. You've really stepped into it now LOL. Hold strong.

[StevieandChris]

This.

He finally grew up and got a LIFE. She never did. She's still a child. She HATES that he got a real life, and she didn't.

Seriously? He had some kind of an outburst and condescends to her and yet he is mature and she isn’t because isn’t because she was sick of his behavior? Both are immature. He was fired, he has not taken the high road.

[dreamsunwind]

Still....not the way you handle that situation as an adult. A 70 year old adult.

True, but when a person has had lots of trauma or abuse in their lives they kinda are stunted emotionally. So she doesn't seem to have the skills to work through issues that may come her way. So she just reacts.

Well Stevie isn't a child. She's 70 years old and she's not some poor victim. I'll never understand where the desire to make Stevie into some poor little victim who's been used and mistreated all her life comes from. She's been a powerful, successful woman who dished it out just as good as she got it it. And either way, a lot of people have been through a lot of hard times in their lives and somehow manage to not live in a deluded bubble where they are the center of the universe and every little person who crosses them is an enemy. But Stevie DOES live in that world and she has for decades. And she also knows her own power and she used it out of immaturity and pettiness.

[Angel75]

Oh man....be prepared. You've really stepped into it now LOL. Hold strong.

HAHAHA...Im thick skinned ...and plus its absolutely true what I said right?! SN was not abused...sure people may have verbally said bad things to her from time to time but she was always equally as strong to hold her own in an argument.

[StevieandChris]

Well Stevie isn't a child. She's 70 years old and she's not some poor victim. I'll never understand where the desire to make Stevie into some poor little victim who's been used and mistreated all her life comes from. She's been a powerful, successful woman who dished it out just as good as she got it it. And either way, a lot of people have been through a lot of hard times in their lives and somehow manage to not live in a deluded bubble where they are the center of the universe and every little person who crosses them is an enemy. But Stevie DOES live in that world and she has for decades. And she also knows her own power and she used it out of immaturity and pettiness.

I don’t think she is a poor victim. She has had it up to here with his antics...and now he is gone. :xoxo:

[bombaysaffires]

No. There is no reason to. He’s been an asshole for 40 years and she’s sick of it. She likes the remaining four members (now 6) so why should SHE quit?

How do you know this? Were you there?

And no way she would be the success she is without him. Rhiannon, as written, would never have been a hit single. Thank him for that. Same with Landslide.
Same with all her stuff on Tusk.

Per Jimmy Iovine, when she went to do Bella Donna, she had no sense of what was a good song, what was a good arrangement, because she always let Lindsey decide for her. If he did the heavy lifting, she could partay.

We don't know if she likes the other 4 members, but clearly she can control them by threatening to leave.

[dreamsunwind]

I don’t think she is a poor victim. She has had it up to here with his antics...and now he is gone. :xoxo:

Yeah she used her power out of immaturity and pettiness. Just like she admitted to having done to other people. She herself has talked openly about the ugly decisions she made back in the height of her career and as her drug problems worsened. She admitted to firing people, failing to show up and pissing a lot of people off and blamed it all on the cocaine. And many other people from her bandmates, to her former producers, to even some of her own friends have owned up to how hard Stevie could be to deal with. She's acted like quite an asshole throughout her life, as has Lindsey, and yet in the end it wasn't Lindsey who behaved like a vengeful child to get her pushed out of a band that she's been part of for decades.

[StevieandChris]

How do you know this? Were you there?

And no way she would be the success she is without him. Rhiannon, as written, would never have been a hit single. Thank him for that. Same with Landslide.
Same with all her stuff on Tusk.

Per Jimmy Iovine, when she went to do Bella Donna, she had no sense of what was a good song, what was a good arrangement, because she always let Lindsey decide for her. If he did the heavy lifting, she could partay.

We don't know if she likes the other 4 members, but clearly she can control them by threatening to leave.

Seriously? So you don’t believe any of the stories about how difficult he is to work with, which I believe he has admitted himself? And I guess you haven’t watched Destiny Rules.

His talents as a producer does not mean she has to put up with him forever. She has sucked up for s long time, continuing to go on the road (which benefited L’s pocket too) though she sat out of recording.

And ultimately whether or not you believe I am right, he is the one who is gone.

[jmn3]

Yeah she used her power out of immaturity and pettiness. Just like she admitted to having done to other people. She herself has talked openly about the ugly decisions she made back in the height of her career and as her drug problems worsened. She admitted to firing people, failing to show up and pissing a lot of people off and blamed it all on the cocaine. And many other people from her bandmates, to her former producers, to even some of her own friends have owned up to how hard Stevie could be to deal with. She's acted like quite an asshole throughout her life, as has Lindsey, and yet in the end it wasn't Lindsey who behaved like a vengeful child to get her pushed out of a band that she's been part of for decades.

It’s always something or someone else. Lindsey. Managers. Cocaine. Klonopin. The doctor. Someone’s death. Maybe she’s just simply an asshole who makes one terrible choice after another.

[StevieandChris]

She's acted like quite an asshole throughout her life, as has Lindsey, and yet in the end it wasn't Lindsey who behaved like a vengeful child to get her pushed out of a band that she's been part of for decades.

Oh no question that she is an ass too. She reached her breaking point before he reached his, that is all. My whole point in all of this mess is it is NOT JUST HER. And this article proves he did contribute to his firing even if you want to downplay his actions.

[HomerMcvie]

It’s always something or someone else. Lindsey. Managers. Cocaine. Klonopin. The doctor. Someone’s death. Maybe she’s just simply an asshole who makes one terrible choice after another.

Exactly. I've never thought she was very intelligent, either. She's got charisma, but I don't think her elevator goes to the top floor.

[bombaysaffires]

Exactly. I've never thought she was very intelligent, either. She's got charisma, but I don't think her elevator goes to the top floor.

I think it did, in the early days. But then, after the fame hit, there was no need to work that hard, not when you had sycophants all around you telling you your farts were worthy of Da Vinci.

[dreamsunwind]

Oh no question that she is an ass too. She reached her breaking point before he reached his, that is all. My whole point in all of this mess is it is NOT JUST HER. And this article proves he did contribute to his firing even if you want to downplay his actions.

That's where we disagree. I think that she never should have done that. Lindsey probably reached his own personal breaking point with Stevie when she refused to record with her band, but he (nor any remotely level-headed person) never tried to do probably the ugliest thing you could to do someone in that position and have her forced out from her band of 40 years simply because she was just annoying him so much. Even if you LOATHE that person, think about their family who let you into their home, kids who called you 'aunt' and 'queen'; or their legacy which involved a lot of your own beautiful music in that 40 years of work, or simply their humanity-- does this person really deserve THAT? To be able to still do that is a level of low I never thought ANYONE in this group could reach. Whether she was mad about his smirk or his rant about Rhiannon playing or whatever else, theres just something uniquely awful about doing that to a person. I honestly can't think of a worse thing to have done to him aside from separating him from his children. It's an awful, ugly thing to do.

[sue]

Well I just think it’s really sad...
Sad for him to be booted out of his life’s work band...
I don’t think he’ll ever return, nor should he.
So it’s sad for fans of the Rumours band, it’s gone.

It’s sad for her, I think she has lost a grip on reality.
She must be in some kind of world of her own.

I do think there are two sides to all stories and one side has told their truth.
Stevie should come out and tell hers.
And maybe Christine should tell her side, fill in the truth for us.
Yes I believe Lindsey I just want to hear Stevie’s side.

[button-lip]

No. There is no reason to. He’s been an asshole for 40 years and she’s sick of it. She likes the remaining four members (now 6) so why should SHE quit?

You clearly don’t understand a damn thing about a legacy and you’re not a FM fan. Same with Stevie.

She has been a ****ing bitch for the past 43 years but there she is.

She doesn’t give a damn about the band. All she wanted was to hurt him. Let’s see if all those remaining members she likes so much stays after this.

“I’m not the boss of the band”, with tears in her eyes. What a ****ing liar!

Stevie’s cultists are in extinction since today.

[jmn3]

Exactly. I've never thought she was very intelligent, either. She's got charisma, but I don't think her elevator goes to the top floor.

You know somewhere in that list of things the goat took issue with was the f’ing Bob Dylan comment. I’m sure her list of grudges is long and deep and totally stupid. Stand Back getting pulled off the 2014 setlist likely pissed her off. Buckingham McVie definitely enraged Saint Stephanie. I don’t know if she’s not bright or just a vindictive old miserable woman, but she has soured me so much on the band. They should’ve all just called it quits after The Dance.

[sodascouts]

That's where we disagree. I think that she never should have done that. Lindsey probably reached his own personal breaking point with Stevie when she refused to record with her band, but he (nor any remotely level-headed person) never tried to do probably the ugliest thing you could to do someone in that position and have her forced out from her band of 40 years simply because she was just annoying him so much. Even if you LOATHE that person, think about their family who let you into their home, kids who called you 'aunt' and 'queen'; or their legacy which involved a lot of your own beautiful music in that 40 years of work, or simply their humanity-- does this person really deserve THAT? To be able to still do that is a level of low I never thought ANYONE in this group could reach. Whether she was mad about his smirk or his rant about Rhiannon playing or whatever else, theres just something uniquely awful about doing that to a person. I honestly can't think of a worse thing to have done to him aside from separating him from his children. It's an awful, ugly thing to do.

Exactly. I just feel sick inside. How could Stevie be so selfish and cruel?

[bombaysaffires]

Oh no question that she is an ass too. She reached her breaking point before he reached his, that is all. My whole point in all of this mess is it is NOT JUST HER. And this article proves he did contribute to his firing even if you want to downplay his actions.

he was a total sh&t to her for a long time in the past. then he was gone for a decade and then eventually when she hit bottom and her solo career was at its nadir they made up (in the 90s) and got the band back together again.

But it's been 20 years since then. And what is in the DR doc that is so bad?? He went out of his way to be nice to her. He tells her that her lyrics could be tighter? Guess what, that's a producer's JOB. Jimmy told her the same thing in the albums he did with her. She got too big for her britches and fired him for it eventually. No one tells ME what to do. The reason she loved working with Dave Stewart was because he never told her no. The result? Songs that are hideously too long and repetitive (Lady, anyone?) or just incoherent (Mabel Normand, anyone?) or lazy (I Don't Care, Cheaper Than Free). A producer is supposed to turn your demos into actual radio friendly songs.
She showed up one day with her assistant/pitbull to double team him and pounce on him for not signing a contract-- a contract that was inappropriate to what they were doing. Watch it again.

The point is, the events of Musicares were not enough to warrant her actions, especially given how much worse all the behavior was in the past.

Part of her problem is she has been surrounded by ass kissers for too long. "How dare they treat you this way?" has been drilled into her head. She's said people like Don Henley were her role models, and that Don taught her "how to be a rock star" -- demanding the presidential suite etc. Azoff encouraged and enabled more of that. Hell Petty even hired her and her entourage their own private jet to follow him around on tour.

Watch the old Rosebud films-- where she's backstage high as a kite goofing around with the road crew. She tells her label guy that she's hanging out with the crew because "they're soooo much better than the BAND" she says the word dripping with derision. She's a brat. She was even then. She just knows how to bs everyone with her public face.

[jbrownsjr]

I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship. I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.

You have to consider, some of us are very close to the crew of the band, (people we know/friends etc).. or even Elle, who talks to LB herself on more than one occasion and more than M&G's.

The story that LB has given is exactly what I had heard back in the early part of the year. A lot of people were not allowed to comment because they could get their sources in a lot of trouble or even fired. (Billy burst that bubble.)

So when $tevie comes out and lies about LB not wanting to tour. (A PR move). One cringes at her lack of any human decency. $he is what Hollywood has become today, Bloated, rich, entitled, crass, and dishonest.

[button-lip]

How do you know this? Were you there?

And no way she would be the success she is without him. Rhiannon, as written, would never have been a hit single. Thank him for that. Same with Landslide.
Same with all her stuff on Tusk.

Per Jimmy Iovine, when she went to do Bella Donna, she had no sense of what was a good song, what was a good arrangement, because she always let Lindsey decide for her. If he did the heavy lifting, she could partay.

We don't know if she likes the other 4 members, but clearly she can control them by threatening to leave.

That’s the problem with Stevie and her fans. They will NEVER get over the fact that he was the reason she’s into FM today. And that’s how she repays him. So they play the abusive card.

Let’s see what happens after this tour is over.

[dreamsunwind]

he was a total sh&t to her for a long time in the past. then he was gone for a decade and then eventually when she hit bottom and her solo career was at its nadir they made up (in the 90s) and got the band back together again.

But it's been 20 years since then. And what is in the DR doc that is so bad?? He went out of his way to be nice to her. He tells her that her lyrics could be tighter? Guess what, that's a producer's JOB. Jimmy told her the same thing in the albums he did with her. She got too big for her britches and fired him for it eventually. No one tells ME what to do. The reason she loved working with Dave Stewart was because he never told her no. The result? Songs that are hideously too long and repetitive (Lady, anyone?) or just incoherent (Mabel Normand, anyone?) or lazy (I Don't Care, Cheaper Than Free). A producer is supposed to turn your demos into actual radio friendly songs.
She showed up one day with her assistant/pitbull to double team him and pounce on him for not signing a contract-- a contract that was inappropriate to what they were doing. Watch it again.

The point is, the events of Musicares were not enough to warrant her actions, especially given how much worse all the behavior was in the past.

Part of her problem is she has been surrounded by ass kissers for too long. "How dare they treat you this way?" has been drilled into her head. She's said people like Don Henley were her role models, and that Don taught her "how to be a rock star" -- demanding the presidential suite etc. Azoff encouraged and enabled more of that. Hell Petty even hired her and her entourage their own private jet to follow him around on tour.

Watch the old Rosebud films-- where she's backstage high as a kite goofing around with the road crew. She tells her label guy that she's hanging out with the crew because "they're soooo much better than the BAND" she says the word dripping with derision. She's a brat. She was even then. She just knows how to bs everyone with her public face.

Yup. And even after she and Jimmy patched things up as friends, they never worked together again. Same with Rick Olsen. He talked about how the RAL album was very rough and it took a while to be friends again afterwards. And again, they didn't work together anymore after. The SA producer she also had a falling out with. Stevie is a textbook diva. She doesn't like being critiqued and doesn't want to deal with people who give her anything that remotely resembles a hard time.

[jbrownsjr]

It’s always something or someone else. Lindsey. Managers. Cocaine. Klonopin. The doctor. Someone’s death. Maybe she’s just simply an asshole who makes one terrible choice after another.

Thank you! :thumbsup:

[Angel75]

It’s always something or someone else. Lindsey. Managers. Cocaine. Klonopin. The doctor. Someone’s death. Maybe she’s just simply an a$shole who makes one terrible choice after another.

You hit the nail on the head. And stand up and own your bad decisions, time to stop playing the victim.... you created your own destiny.

[secondhandchain]

Even though I don’t like her anymore I would still listen to her music it… Not anymore never again.

[jbrownsjr]

Well I just think it’s really sad...
Sad for him to be booted out of his life’s work band...
I don’t think he’ll ever return, nor should he.
So it’s sad for fans of the Rumours band, it’s gone.

It’s sad for her, I think she has lost a grip on reality.
She must be in some kind of world of her own.

I do think there are two sides to all stories and one side has told their truth.
Stevie should come out and tell hers.
And maybe Christine should tell her side, fill in the truth for us.
Yes I believe Lindsey I just want to hear Stevie’s side.

We did. First, it was about the tour. Then, it was about wanting to be happy. All PR to $ell tickets. We heard her lie on national TV.

[Frankenstein]

I don’t think she is a poor victim. She has had it up to here with his antics...and now he is gone. :xoxo:

K. And what about her antics?

[Storms123]

he was a total sh&t to her for a long time in the past. then he was gone for a decade and then eventually when she hit bottom and her solo career was at its nadir they made up (in the 90s) and got the band back together again.

But it's been 20 years since then. And what is in the DR doc that is so bad?? He went out of his way to be nice to her. He tells her that her lyrics could be tighter? Guess what, that's a producer's JOB. Jimmy told her the same thing in the albums he did with her. She got too big for her britches and fired him for it eventually. No one tells ME what to do. The reason she loved working with Dave Stewart was because he never told her no. The result? Songs that are hideously too long and repetitive (Lady, anyone?) or just incoherent (Mabel Normand, anyone?) or lazy (I Don't Care, Cheaper Than Free). A producer is supposed to turn your demos into actual radio friendly songs.
She showed up one day with her assistant/pitbull to double team him and pounce on him for not signing a contract-- a contract that was inappropriate to what they were doing. Watch it again.

The point is, the events of Musicares were not enough to warrant her actions, especially given how much worse all the behavior was in the past.

Part of her problem is she has been surrounded by ass kissers for too long. "How dare they treat you this way?" has been drilled into her head. She's said people like Don Henley were her role models, and that Don taught her "how to be a rock star" -- demanding the presidential suite etc. Azoff encouraged and enabled more of that. Hell Petty even hired her and her entourage their own private jet to follow him around on tour.

Watch the old Rosebud films-- where she's backstage high as a kite goofing around with the road crew. She tells her label guy that she's hanging out with the crew because "they're soooo much better than the BAND" she says the word dripping with derision. She's a brat. She was even then. She just knows how to bs everyone with her public face.

I completely agree with you--I've watched and rematched DR multiple times, unless the "bad stuff" hit the cutting room floor, nothing in that looked remotely hostile.

[Angel75]

That's where we disagree. I think that she never should have done that. Lindsey probably reached his own personal breaking point with Stevie when she refused to record with her band, but he (nor any remotely level-headed person) never tried to do probably the ugliest thing you could to do someone in that position and have her forced out from her band of 40 years simply because she was just annoying him so much. Even if you LOATHE that person, think about their family who let you into their home, kids who called you 'aunt' and 'queen'; or their legacy which involved a lot of your own beautiful music in that 40 years of work, or simply their humanity-- does this person really deserve THAT? To be able to still do that is a level of low I never thought ANYONE in this group could reach. Whether she was mad about his smirk or his rant about Rhiannon playing or whatever else, theres just something uniquely awful about doing that to a person. I honestly can't think of a worse thing to have done to him aside from separating him from his children. It's an awful, ugly thing to do.

Exactly...I dont see even if you are a hard core SN fan ...that so many people writing here were ....you can then justify her behavior...it was simply an unjustified, awful thing for her to do to him...

[bombaysaffires]

I completely agree with you--I've watched and rematched DR multiple times, unless the "bad stuff" hit the cutting room floor, nothing in that looked remotely hostile.

I do think there was some nastiness that went on AFTER the recording was done and that he did one of his rants saying bitchy things to her (her lyrics to You May Be The One -- "I hear the islands calling, I hear angry words, flying across the ocean, like some seabirds, never stopping. I feel my blood racing, can't believe what you are saying, I used to love you so much"), and there again she played her "I'll leave" card..... if they did the double album, which he wanted, she would not agree to any additional live shows that they were working to book. They had committed to 40 at that point and she said she'd honor those contracts, but then she would pull the plug and not do any more touring, because she knew he needed to make up the money lost on album royalties from the tour income. She won. They didn't do the double album and she agreed to do more shows.

She is not above this kind of thing. She would threaten to badmouth them to the media as far back as the 1980s if they didn't give her what she wanted on an album (e.g. her vocals more prominent on Tango stuff-- even tho the reason she wasn't on it was her drug problem)

Even if she didn't think up this stuff on her own, she's made it a point to hire pitbulls to work for her -- Howard Kaufman, Azoff, Karen, etc etc.

[dreamsunwind]

We did. First, it was about the tour. Then, it was about wanting to be happy. All PR to $ell tickets. We heard her lie on national TV.

The fact that she randomly said "I'm not the boss" "I want to be super happy" on that CBS interview was so telling. It was so awkward and wasn't remotely related to what they were supposed to be talking about.

[dreamsunwind]

I do think there was some nastiness that went on AFTER the recording was done and that he did one of his rants saying bitchy things to her (her lyrics to You May Be The One -- "I hear the islands calling, I hear angry words, flying across the ocean, like some seabirds, never stopping. I feel my blood racing, can't believe what you are saying, I used to love you so much"), and there again she played her "I'll leave" card..... if they did the double album, which he wanted, she would not agree to any additional live shows that they were working to book. They had committed to 40 at that point and she said she'd honor those contracts, but then she would pull the plug and not do any more touring, because she knew he needed to make up the money lost on album royalties from the tour income. She won. They didn't do the double album and she agreed to do more shows.

She is not above this kind of thing. She would threaten to badmouth them to the media as far back as the 1980s if they didn't give her what she wanted on an album (e.g. her vocals more prominent on Tango stuff-- even tho the reason she wasn't on it was her drug problem)

Even if she didn't think up this stuff on her own, she's made it a point to hire pitbulls to work for her -- Howard Kaufman, Azoff, Karen, etc etc.

The YMBTO thing happened later on. They'd finished the recording and she was on vacation or something and they argued over the phone about the sequencing I believe it was.

[bombaysaffires]

The YMBTO thing happened later on. They'd finished the recording and she was on vacation or something and they argued over the phone about the sequencing I believe it was.

You may be right. I thought it was about the length of the album. :shrug:
I'm too busy to go watch DR again. Maybe some day.:mad:

[dreamsunwind]

You may be right. I thought it was about the length of the album. :shrug:
I'm too busy to go watch DR again. Maybe some day.:mad:

There was conflict over it being a double album but we saw that in the documentary and he eventually gave up on it. What she talks about in the song we didn't see in the film because it happened afterwards. "Angry words fly across the ocean" is quite literal lol as he was on a different continent when they were arguing about it.

[secondhandchain]

I can't even believe the woman that I thought so highly of is a total POS. And she is just that.

[Storms123]

The fact that she randomly said "I'm not the boss" "I want to be super happy" on that CBS interview was so telling. It was so awkward and wasn't remotely related to what they were supposed to be talking about.

And the twirling. Don’t forget the twirling around the living room.

[StevieandChris]

Exactly...I dont see even if you are a hard core SN fan ...that so many people writing here were ....you can then justify her behavior...it was simply an unjustified, awful thing for her to do to him...

We’ll agree to disagree that it wasn’t justified. The only people who can decide that are in the band. And they made their decision.

[secondhandchain]

And the twirling. Don’t forget the twirling around the living room.

SO TELLING. She really meant "I AM the boss now". What an absolute POS.

[StevieandChris]

That's where we disagree. I think that she never should have done that. Lindsey probably reached his own personal breaking point with Stevie when she refused to record with her band, but he (nor any remotely level-headed person) never tried to do probably the ugliest thing you could to do someone in that position and have her forced out from her band of 40 years simply because she was just annoying him so much. Even if you LOATHE that person, think about their family who let you into their home, kids who called you 'aunt' and 'queen'; or their legacy which involved a lot of your own beautiful music in that 40 years of work, or simply their humanity-- does this person really deserve THAT? To be able to still do that is a level of low I never thought ANYONE in this group could reach. Whether she was mad about his smirk or his rant about Rhiannon playing or whatever else, theres just something uniquely awful about doing that to a person. I honestly can't think of a worse thing to have done to him aside from separating him from his children. It's an awful, ugly thing to do.

We’ll definitely agree to disagree. He chose his actions too.

[Angel75]

And the twirling. Don’t forget the twirling around the living room.

Its so ridiculous, its laughable isnt it?
I wonder how much she is enjoying that dancing nowdays

[HomerMcvie]

Its so ridiculous, its laughable isnt it?
I wonder how much she is enjoying that dancing nowdays

I hope she regrets her childish actions for the rest of her bitter little life.

[Murrow]

I'm most disappointed with Christine. I'd have though she'd have at least had some contact with him. Doesn't sound like it.
What a complete load sh!t

You've got to feel for her a bit. Can you imagine how torn she must have felt?

[Angel75]

We’ll agree to disagree that it wasn’t justified. The only people who can decide that are in the band. And they made their decision.

Just so I am clear, you hand on your heart think what he did at Musicares meant he should be fired from the band?
Not talking about anything from previous years, you genuinely think it was reasonable?

[In Your Dreams]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Ob7p7lDT99cd2/giphy.gif

[Macfan4life]

Oh wow, it is worse than we thought. But many of us were correct in guessing Stevie gave the ultimatum.....its me or him.
Here are a few points that no one mentioned yet. This Lindsey/Stevie drama has went on for decades. Why do you suppose Mick or Christine was not able to mend things just for the tour? Stevie was upset Lindsey smirked at her? Good grief! Lindsey does make fun of her on stage for her talking. I often tell the story of the Miami show where Lindsey pissed her off so much because he was making sound effects with his guitar as she was speaking. She openly turned on him, right on the stage.
Now to the Rhiannon music for the intro. Even if it upset Lindsey just a bit, why would he get upset with a song he helped craft? Someone's song needed to be played. Its just silly jealousy on both sides.
But lets be real. This stubbornness by Stevie existed before this award show. I wish it was asked why Stevie refused to join them in the studio? This was a long time before the awards show. She was done with Lindsey after On With The Show tour.
One of the great guitarists gets fired for the most ridiculous things ever. It is very sad about the legacy and exactly what Lindsey said. They took 40 years to get over all their issues. They could not hold it together for one album and tour?
Yes I wish Mick and Christine would have intervened. But $tevie holds all the cards because she brings asses in the seats. SAD :( It truly is Stevie Mac. And I do agree. The Buck/McVie album drove Stevie to the brink. Just like she got jealous when Lindsey and Chris wrote World Turning together. If they sat and did nothing and waited for her solo tour to end, I would bet my life she would not have fired Lindsey.

[bwboy]

Speaking for myself, if I had known anyone for 4 decades and worked alongside them so much, I'd automatically consider that person a good friend, regardless of how often we may hang out and chat on our own. That's a long, long time to know and work with someone.

Pardon my long post, but your post really struck a chord with me. I know I like to think of FM as a family or as fairly tight friends, but SteveMacD is probably right- they are not close like I like to imagine. This incarnation has made, over the course of 40+years, 5 albums (FM, Rumours, Tusk, Mirage, and Tango). And we all know Tusk and Tango were not recorded by the band the way the other albums were. And when they toured, they likely spent very little time together except when they were on stage, and they makes sense, even though, again, I would have liked the idea that before the show, they might hang out and go sight seeing together, or have dinner, or whatever. Clearly they didn't, except when Billy Burnette and Rick Vito were in the band. Billy wrote in his book about how the entire band would jam after a show, including Stevie. Still, that was the exception rather than the rule. Once the band hit it big, any true closeness they had by traveling to gigs in a van or sharing hotel rooms vanished when they started taking jets and staying in individual penthouse suites. So Christine and Mick are close, Stevie and Mick are close, and John and Mick are probably kind-of close. Christine and Lindsey liked each other and had mutual respect, but they weren't close. Mick and Lindsey liked each other and had mutual respect, but they weren't close. And as I mentioned, during the past 40+years, they all probably went several years without communicating. We all know from mid-1987 to mid-1996, there was very little communication between them. Stevie recorded Twisted with Lindsey, and Mick and John worked on an album with Lindsey, but that was it. From 1997-2014, Christine probably talked to no one but Mick. I doubt Lindsey and John hung out, or Stevie and John, or Christine and John, or Christine and Stevie, or Christine and Lindsey. Mick seems to be the glue, if you will.

Stevie (and Lindsey, to a much lesser extent) talk a big game about their relationship, but to me, it's Hollywood talk. If Stevie's still hung up on Lindsey, then she needs to see a counselor. I really can't tell how much of her prattle about Lindsey is real or fake- even if they were like a married couple, they were still only together what, 4 years? Hardly a lengthy period of time, although going from struggling artists to successful millionaires virtually overnight would certainly create a bond, I grant her that.

The reason I write all this is that I've come to realize in the past few years that Stevie doesn't want to work with Lindsey anymore in the studio, and now she doesn't want to tour with him anymore, either. We know she didn't want to record with him because... after Say You Will, she didn't and wouldn't. She never said that in interviews, but it was obvious. Right or wrong, she made that decision and stuck to it, but she was still willing to tour with him. Then something happened and it sounds like she said "that's it, it's either him or me" and the band made their decision. I can't fault them, they need to make money to support their lifestyles, and recording doesn't bring in the money that touring does. Here's why people are going to say I'm wrong, but I can't fault Stevie, either. Regardless of her reasoning, she gave the band a the chance to choose, and they chose her. I've worked at the same agency for nearly 25 years in various positions, and I've had my share of conflicts with co-workers. While I've never given an ultimatum like that to my boss ("that's it, it's either him or me"), there have been times I wanted to! It's just that I couldn't afford to lose my job! Stevie CAN afford to issue that sort of ultimatum. We have to remember that being in FM is a job for them. In that respect, is it right to expect people who don't want to work together be forced to do so for our enjoyment?

A lot of people say that Stevie should have swallowed her pride, and that she owes Lindsey because if it hadn't been for Lindsey insisting she be allowed to join FM as well, she wouldn't be where she is today. Well, that's true, but it's just as possible that FM wouldn't have achieved the level of fame and success they did without Stevie. The simple fact is, those 3 songwriters created something together that probably wouldn't have existed if there had only been 2 of them. Lindsey left in 1987 because he had reached his limit and sadly, he left in 2018 because Stevie reached her limit. I don't recall anyone saying in 1987 that Lindsey should have sucked it up and toured with FM because he owed them for letting him join FM. Stevie doesn't owe Lindsey anymore. They've all been vastly rewarded for their work a million times over, financially and creatively.

Whew... again, sorry for the long post. I am not trying to change anyone's mind here. I just wanted to show another POV here. Lindsey's interview was very classy and I am THRILLED that he shared his story. I can't wait to see him in concert.

[Jondalar]

How bitterly ironic. Lindsey wouldn’t join FM without Stevie and now she has him kicked out over nothing.

[secondhandchain]

How bitterly ironic. Lindsey wouldn’t join FM without Stevie and now she has him kicked out over nothing.

Doesn't matter what the chiffonheads say, she will FOREVER be known at the old hag who busted up the Rumours five.

[secondhandchain]

I hope she regrets her childish actions for the rest of her bitter little life.

Her RARHOF speech should be a DOOZY. "tom petty was my life and he started my career back in the velvet underground" She makes me want to hurl.

[StevieandChris]

Doesn't matter what the chiffonheads say, she will FOREVER be known at the old hag who busted up the Rumours five.

By some people. :wavey:

[StevieandChris]

Just so I am clear, you hand on your heart think what he did at Musicares meant he should be fired from the band?
Not talking about anything from previous years, you genuinely think it was reasonable?

You cannot separate it from the previous years though. That’s the point. It has been BUILDING. This was not a one-off.

So yes, his firing was justified.

And like I have said many times before, if they had fired Stevie in 1987 when she was a complete mess, or after she did not want to record, her firing would have been justified too. But that didn’t happen.

Years later, this did.

[secondhandchain]

You cannot separate it from the previous years though. That’s the point. It has been BUILDING. This was not a one-off.

So yes, his firing was justified.

And like I have said many times before, if they had fired Stevie in 1987 when she was a complete mess, or after she did not want to record, her firing would have been justified too. But that didn’t happen.

Years later, this did.

Your username says all we need to know about your views on this. You obviously hate LB. I on the other hand ADORED SN (since 1977) and the rest of the band until two years ago when she started acting like a total D bag. There I said it.

[krrrby]

So there we have it - we have heard the one half of the real story. I think we all knew the reasons for the departure from the Mac crew were a cover up. We should all know better, being fans and following their story over the years that something wasn't added up.

We do know that Lindsey does have an element of jealousy and bitterness to some degree that comes out when the cameras are not rolling. I have a hard time believing that a smirk from LB set Stevie off to no end. I think there is an issue with respect between the two, and for Stevie, how he treats her.

I'm not going to call anything on either side because I still feel like we still do not know the whole story other than from LB's perspective, and I think it should be left as that.

If Christine, John, and Mick are standing by Stevie I think there is a reason other than the infamous cash grab excuse that everyone on here claims. They all have millions and can retire happily. Something must have happened at Musicares that was a big thing. I feel like the whole story isn't sold yet. Now we wait to see if Stevie will respond to it.

[StevieandChris]

Your username says all we need to know about your views on this. You obviously hate LB. I on the other hand ADORED SN (since 1977) and the rest of the band until two years ago when she started acting like a total D bag. There I said it.

Good for you! I am sure you will get a gold star.

[mitzo]

I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship. I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.
I agree fully, and am not at all surprised this happened. The fact that Christine did nothing to intervene in this tells me she empathized with Stevie and not Lindsey.

[Angel75]

Lindsey left in 1987 because he had reached his limit and sadly, he left in 2018 because Stevie reached her limit.

Not to be TOO nitpicky....but Lindsey did not leave, he was FIRED...not his CHOICE

[Frankenstein]

I agree fully, and am not at all surprised this happened. The fact that Christine did nothing to intervene in this tells me she empathized with Stevie and not Lindsey.

I think it’s more likely that Christine doesn’t want to be in the middle of their drama nor go against Mick.

[lovethemac1]

I’m no Stevie apologist and I hate what has gone down. I’m also unclear why there is an immediate assumption that what Lindsey said is the whole story.

I think because the rest of the band (Stevie) have been caught in too many lies and haven't come out with anything else.

[ryan4136]

What I take out of all this is that Mick basically hasn’t been lying in his quotes. Take them at face value now that we can confirm what went on. ‘The band was at an impasse’. Sure was. His hands were tied, they all were.

[jbrownsjr]

The fact that she randomly said "I'm not the boss" "I want to be super happy" on that CBS interview was so telling. It was so awkward and wasn't remotely related to what they were supposed to be talking about.

Reporter: That's a nice black dress you're wearing.
$tevie: I'm not the boss!!! hahahaha I want to be happy!! Where's my pills?

[jkmaletic]

It's even worse than what I speculated, because I at least thought there was a real fight.... not "he smirked at me."

I am beyond disgusted with Stevie.

I am never seeing Fleetwood Mac again.

I guess you missed the "Azoff had a LIST of things" part of the article? Pretty sure it's beyond a smirk.

Jamie

[jkmaletic]

Reporter: That's a nice black dress you're wearing.
$tevie: I'm not the boss!!! hahahaha I want to be happy!! Where's my pills?

Shouldn't joke about pills. C'mon man.

[ryan4136]

If Christine, John, and Mick are standing by Stevie I think there is a reason other than the infamous cash grab excuse that everyone on here claims. They all have millions and can retire happily. Something must have happened at Musicares that was a big thing. I feel like the whole story isn't sold yet. Now we wait to see if Stevie will respond to it.

Mick charges $600 for a scarf and a photo opp. Afraid it is all about the cash.

Another way to ask the question is not ‘why would they be ok with the fitibg’ Should be asking ‘why would they want to tour without LB, given his impact in the band and the risk of a tour without him?’ The answer isn’t creative, or boredom, it’s cash

[jbrownsjr]

Shouldn't joke about pills. C'mon man.

Yes, how weird to joke about drugs and Fleetwood Mac.
... but hey Jamie, at least it gives you a reason to troll again. :thumbsup:

[Steviegirl]

After Lindsey's impact on all these people's lives, he can't even get a response to an email. Despicable. I also think that part of this is the result of Stevie trying to give MC the hookup and get one step closer to Heartbreaker status by any means necessary. Waddy better watch out. This continues to break my heart. At least now, I know, categorically, that I will NEVER see FM live again. Now I understand why Kristen was so furious. Lord, this is sleazy and gross.

[jbrownsjr]

After Lindsey's impact on all these people's lives, he can't even get a response to an email. Despicable. I also think that part of this is the result of Stevie trying to give MC the hookup and get one step closer to Heartbreaker status by any means necessary. Waddy better watch out. This continues to break my heart. At least now, I know, categorically, that I will NEVER see FM live again. Now I understand why Kristen was so furious. Lord, this is sleazy and gross.

The email thing really gave me cold chills, too. It's disgusting.

[jkmaletic]

Yes, how weird to joke about drugs and Fleetwood Mac.
... but hey Jamie, at least it gives you a reason to troll again. :thumbsup:

How, exactly, am I trolling? Explain please.

[jkmaletic]

I guess I don't know the definition of trolling. Commenting is trolling?? Hmm....Ok, I guess. :shrug:

[jbrownsjr]

How, exactly, am I trolling? Explain please.

Sigh.. really?
So you came in here to offer your own opinion? And not just police TL for posts about $tevie....... or telling someone that can't joke or they can't do this or they can't do that? Jamie, really?

I've seen the same behavior of you on twitter and people calling you out. Out of alllll the things we are talking about. You chose to comment about a drug/Fleetwood Mac spoof?? I'm done explaining it to you.

[Angel75]

The email thing really gave me cold chills, too. It's disgusting.

Absolutely....cmon Mick how hard is it to write a few sentences back to your band colleague at least out of respect for all he has done to support you these past 40years, its not like you have to see or speak with him directly...its not a big ask (even if legally you felt you shouldnt or your Mgmt advised you not to)

[jkmaletic]

Wait...I looked it up:
Trolling:

"To make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them."

Kiiiinda sounds like you with your pills joke. I was "upset" with your pills joke because I had a close family member die because of addiction to them.

[jbrownsjr]

Absolutely....cmon Mick how hard is it to write a few sentences back to your band colleague at least out of respect for all he has done to support you these past 40years, its not like you have to see or speak with him directly...its not a big ask (even if legally you felt you shouldnt or your Mgmt advised you not to)

It's really so inhumane. And I can only imagine how badly he felt that his life was turned upside down. And then the silence. They couldn't even tell him. No guts. He didn't even know he was fired.... That's just wrong.

[ryan4136]

Phone calls, emails?

It’s 2018 guys. Just shoot a text. 😜

[jbrownsjr]

Wait...I looked it up:
Trolling:

"To make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them."

Kiiiinda sounds like you with your pills joke. I was "upset" with your pills joke because I had a close family member die because of addiction to them.

Ok.. first sorry about your family member. I too had someone die in my family. If jokes about drugs and FMac upset you, maybe you should troll somewhere else. I'm done with this conversation as again... it has nothing to do with the thread.

[jbrownsjr]

Phone calls, emails?

It’s 2018 guys. Just shoot a text. 😜

How about a singing telegram from a person dressed up as a goat? :laugh:

[jkmaletic]

Azoff's list of things aside, I think Stevie and Mick SHOULD have returned his calls or emails. They owe him that, just on a personal history level.

Jamie

[bwboy]

Mick charges $600 for a scarf and a photo opp. Afraid it is all about the cash.

Another way to ask the question is not ‘why would they be ok with the fitibg’ Should be asking ‘why would they want to tour without LB, given his impact in the band and the risk of a tour without him?’ The answer isn’t creative, or boredom, it’s cash

I'm not saying it's not about the cash... just that that's not the sole reason for this tour. Every single member LOVES to tour. And several concert reviews have pointed out the set list is a surprise, which could be considered creative.

I totally agree that $600 is insane for a meet and greet that doesn't include a ticket. Heck, it's insane even WITH a ticket! But somebody must be buying them.

[jkmaletic]

How about a singing telegram from a person dressed up as a goat? :laugh:

I believe this is troll material. I'm so happy I learned a new word! :laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

I believe this is troll material. I'm so happy I learned a new word! :laugh:

You win!! :xoxo:

[jkmaletic]

You win!! :xoxo:

High five, dude!:wavey:

[jbrownsjr]

High five, dude!:wavey:

let' do the lesbian/gay guy hi five!

[StreetAngel86]

It's even worse than what I speculated, because I at least thought there was a real fight.... not "he smirked at me."

I am beyond disgusted with Stevie.

I am never seeing Fleetwood Mac again.

Chris and Mick were WALTZING
why weren't they fired
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

[jbrownsjr]

Chris and Mick were WALTZING
why weren't they fired
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

I mean Christine had a whistle. 2014/2015

[ImpossibleHoney]

Read this article and just had one takeaway.....dammit Stevie!

I am a Stevie Nicks fan. I am a Fleetwood Mac fan. I am 39 and have been for as long as I can remember because my mamma was. There are pictures of me in a Wild Heart Tour t-shirt at 8 years old, proudly carrying around my kiddie tambourine. My very first concert was the Rock A Little tour and while I dont remember it very well outside of it just being very, very loud but I have been in awe ever since.

I have been a Stevie apologist. I have been a down in the grit Stevie defender. I have been a proud "chiffon head". And today, honestly, I am in shock.

I agree that there are two sides to this story and I REALLY want Stevie to step forward and honestly say what she needs to. What in the Hell brought you to THIS? For good or ill, y'all have been down this road since y'all were practically kids and you threw down an ultimatum FOR WHAT? Him pitching a fit because of Rhiannon? What was this "outburst"?

As much as it pains me to say, I am just disappointed. I just dont know...

[BigAl84]

I mean Christine had a whistle. 2014/2015

Yes she did AND she blew it on Stevie mid gypsy story and you know what her response was? "I will NOT be stopped" Stevie for a split second tried to laugh, but it was a dig that she let go because it was Christine. Still, she had to make sure she said "I will NOT be stopped"

And she's right, she won't be stopped because she's not playing with a full deck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLICarKl-1w

[sleepless child]

My mouth dropped open while I was reading the Rolling Stone article. How the hell does Stevie know that Lindsey smirked? Her back was too him. I guess her people tattled to Stevie? Lord, how old are these people?

I have been a Stevie fan since 1975. I can't believe that she did this. I feel betrayed. Why did I invest all those years to her? I feel bad for Lindsey, hell he thought Stevie was leaving. He didn't even realize he was fired.

I'm very upset with John and Christine for not backing Lindsey up. It just shows it's all about the money and keeping the big machine rolling along.

So sad. My band and my Stevie have really disappointed me so much.

I Carol, Ken and Micks books, and yes, Lindsey could be an ass. But I found his interview to be very open. He admits he was upset about the Rhiannon intro. He is honest about it. And there was no reason to fire him. Go to therapy!! work it out. Stevie has a lot of explaining to do. But we'll never get the truth from her. I'm glad now I didn't get tickets for the tour.

[secondhandchain]

Read this article and just had one takeaway.....dammit Stevie!

I am a Stevie Nicks fan. I am a Fleetwood Mac fan. I am 39 and have been for as long as I can remember because my mamma was. There are pictures of me in a Wild Heart Tour t-shirt at 8 years old, proudly carrying around my kiddie tambourine. My very first concert was the Rock A Little tour and while I dont remember it very well outside of it just being very, very loud but I have been in awe ever since.

I have been a Stevie apologist. I have been a down in the grit Stevie defender. I have been a proud "chiffon head". And today, honestly, I am in shock.

I agree that there are two sides to this story and I REALLY want Stevie to step forward and honestly say what she needs to. What in the Hell brought you to THIS? For good or ill, y'all have been down this road since y'all were practically kids and you threw down an ultimatum FOR WHAT? Him pitching a fit because of Rhiannon? What was this "outburst"?

As much as it pains me to say, I am just disappointed. I just dont know...

Thank you for your honesty. People think I am just a long time Stevie hater troll. Nothing could be further from the truth. This woman has disapointed me so many times the last few years.

[HomerMcvie]

Yes, how weird to joke about drugs and Fleetwood Mac.
... but hey Jamie, at least it gives you a reason to troll again. :thumbsup:

Have I ever told you that I love you?

[jkmaletic]

Read this article and just had one takeaway.....dammit Stevie!

I am a Stevie Nicks fan. I am a Fleetwood Mac fan. I am 39 and have been for as long as I can remember because my mamma was. There are pictures of me in a Wild Heart Tour t-shirt at 8 years old, proudly carrying around my kiddie tambourine. My very first concert was the Rock A Little tour and while I dont remember it very well outside of it just being very, very loud but I have been in awe ever since.

I have been a Stevie apologist. I have been a down in the grit Stevie defender. I have been a proud "chiffon head". And today, honestly, I am in shock.

I agree that there are two sides to this story and I REALLY want Stevie to step forward and honestly say what she needs to. What in the Hell brought you to THIS? For good or ill, y'all have been down this road since y'all were practically kids and you threw down an ultimatum FOR WHAT? Him pitching a fit because of Rhiannon? What was this "outburst"?

As much as it pains me to say, I am just disappointed. I just dont know...

Off topic, but..
I can hear your accent through your post and I love it. Where are you from? :woohoo:

[BombaySapphire3]

I don't completely blame Stevie even though it is her fault that Lindsey is gone I have been a fan since the 1970s and her behavior is a not huge shock to me .As someone else pointed out she has always been a brat.It is the remainder of the band that really appall me .They are a greedy, tacky and ungrateful bunch of folks. I will still listen to the music that I have but I will not buy their redundant and lame new compilation nor will I ever see them in concert again .Not that their silly karaoke show is much of a temptation anyway.

[BigAl84]

I don't completely blame Stevie even though it is her fault that Lindsey is gone I have been a fan since the 1970s and her behavior is a not huge shock to me .As someone else pointed out she has always been a brat.It is the remainder of the band that really appall me .They are a greedy, tacky and ungrateful bunch of folks. I will still listen to the music that I have but I will not buy their redundant and lame new compilation nor will I ever see them in concert again .Not that their silly karaoke show is much of a temptation anyway.

Edit....I misread your post.

[bombaysaffires]

Pardon my long post, but your post really struck a chord with me. I know I like to think of FM as a family or as fairly tight friends, but SteveMacD is probably right- they are not close like I like to imagine. This incarnation has made, over the course of 40+years, 5 albums (FM, Rumours, Tusk, Mirage, and Tango). And we all know Tusk and Tango were not recorded by the band the way the other albums were. And when they toured, they likely spent very little time together except when they were on stage, and they makes sense, even though, again, I would have liked the idea that before the show, they might hang out and go sight seeing together, or have dinner, or whatever. Clearly they didn't, except when Billy Burnette and Rick Vito were in the band. Billy wrote in his book about how the entire band would jam after a show, including Stevie. Still, that was the exception rather than the rule. Once the band hit it big, any true closeness they had by traveling to gigs in a van or sharing hotel rooms vanished when they started taking jets and staying in individual penthouse suites. So Christine and Mick are close, Stevie and Mick are close, and John and Mick are probably kind-of close. Christine and Lindsey liked each other and had mutual respect, but they weren't close. Mick and Lindsey liked each other and had mutual respect, but they weren't close. And as I mentioned, during the past 40+years, they all probably went several years without communicating. We all know from mid-1987 to mid-1996, there was very little communication between them. Stevie recorded Twisted with Lindsey, and Mick and John worked on an album with Lindsey, but that was it. From 1997-2014, Christine probably talked to no one but Mick. I doubt Lindsey and John hung out, or Stevie and John, or Christine and John, or Christine and Stevie, or Christine and Lindsey. Mick seems to be the glue, if you will.

.


maybe not family but more like comrades in arms. like a squadron that's been through the war together (hello, hello sad angel.. have you come to fight the war?) they've been in the trenches, they've been through **** together, they've seen each other at their worst... inevitable traveling around so many years. so yeah, there's a bond there. you see things, you don't have to like the person or the action but you have a code that says what happens in the band isn't discussed outside the band.

[elle]

aaaannndddd....... waiting for the inevitable "but how do we know that's what happened? He could be making it all up. Of course he's going to say it's Stevie" blah bah blah blah blah.

The "he smirked at me!" is so pathetic it's hilarious. It's like when you're five f'ing years old and you whine to your mommy "he's looking at me!" WTF.

So, the ultimatum was real, the lies about rehearsals were real, the being surprised was real, and him having a rant at Musicares was real.

Stevie "I'm not the boss in the band"...... total lie.

yes. and some of us had this info since the beginning of February, leaked from the camp of one of the other 4, not LBs. so it's not just one side out of 5. it's the truth. his version is EXACTLY what we've been hearing from the other band members' camp, down to the phrases and wording used. except i always assumed it was Mick who called him. turns out there's a reason Mick carries around those wooden balls: he has no balls of his own. and apparently Azoff even didn't feel the need to tell LB that he's the one ousted and left him with the expression that Stevie left the band.

what a bunch of sad spineless lying cowards. remember how Mick told Wendy Welch that it was Christine's fault that Bob was not inducted? does anyone here still believe that?? Mick is a coward.

[HomerMcvie]

yes. and some of us had this info since the beginning of February, leaked from the camp of one of the other 4, not LBs. so it's not just one side out of 5. it's the truth. his version is EXACTLY what we've been hearing from the other band members' camp, down to the phrases and wording used. except i always assumed it was Mick who called him. turns out there's a reason Mick carries around those wooden balls: he has no balls of his own. and apparently Azoff even didn't feel the need to tell LB that he's the one ousted and left him with the expression that Stevie left the band.

what a bunch of sad spineless lying cowards. remember how Mick told Wendy Welch that it was Christine's fault that Bob was not inducted? does anyone here still believe that?? Mick is a coward.

I've known that Mick is a pussy, forever.

Curiosity killed the cat... So if it wasn't Christine, then WHO kept Bob out of the HOF?

[StevieandChris]

yes. and some of us had this info since the beginning of February, leaked from the camp of one of the other 4, not LBs. so it's not just one side out of 5. it's the truth. his version is EXACTLY what we've been hearing from the other band members' camp, down to the phrases and wording used. except i always assumed it was Mick who called him. turns out there's a reason Mick carries around those wooden balls: he has no balls of his own. and apparently Azoff even didn't feel the need to tell LB that he's the one ousted and left him with the expression that Stevie left the band.

what a bunch of sad spineless lying cowards. remember how Mick told Wendy Welch that it was Christine's fault that Bob was not inducted? does anyone here still believe that?? Mick is a coward.

So, those of you in the “know” what else was on the list of complaints besides the Rhiannon intro and smirking? Or did Rolling Stone get it wrong?

[DownOnRodeo]

Reporter: That's a nice black dress you're wearing.
$tevie: I'm not the boss!!! hahahaha I want to be happy!! Where's my pills?

:lol::lol::lol:

If Stevie puts out a new album solo or with Fleetwood Mac/Heartbreakers/Crowded House it should be called "Non Sequitir."
(Just tell her it's Latin for "nine sequins" or something.)

[gldstwmn]

This article does him no favors. Those of you who can't see it can't see the forest through the trees. :distress:

[StevieandChris]

This article does him no favors. Those of you who can't see it can't see the forest through the trees. :distress:

I laughed my head off at this fact too, knowing they’d say this about Stevie loyalists.

[secondhandchain]

This article does him no favors. Those of you who can't see it can't see the forest through the trees. :distress:

Is he difficult? Yes. Is Stevie? Yes. Did Lindsey try to get Stevie fired????? NO!!! F Stevie and the broom she rode in on.

[secondhandchain]

I laughed my head off at this fact too, knowing they’d say this about Stevie loyalists.

I'll say it AGAIN. I am not a Lindsey loyalist. I liked ALL of the band until the tambourine witch started saying these idiotic things in the press and then refused to record with the band. She can't get her stories straight about anything and it's GOD DAMN annoying. Paraphrasing "oh I won't record because music doesn't sell" "i got inspired and recorded In Your dreams" "I had to tell the members of FM that we can only tour every three years" "Lindsey didn't want to tour for a year and we can't just sit here, working is what we do." STFU

[StreetAngel86]

Absolutely....cmon Mick how hard is it to write a few sentences back to your band colleague at least out of respect for all he has done to support you these past 40years, its not like you have to see or speak with him directly...its not a big ask (even if legally you felt you shouldnt or your Mgmt advised you not to)


no joke.
not even 'you know i love you, man. but you know i love money more. and stevie is money. we'll talk when the dust has settled. maybe.'

peace. :nod:

[StreetAngel86]

I mean Christine had a whistle. 2014/2015

:lol:

stevie was too busy talking about herself
how does she know what they were even doing

oh no Lindsey BREATHED ... fire him :rolleyes:

This article does him no favors. Those of you who can't see it can't see the forest through the trees. :distress:


go back to your Stevie!board.
where you can bang on about how the sun shines outta her @ss.

if she wanted any respect, she would have come out months ago and said, 'you know what, i was not happy. i had lindsey removed from the band. i am a miserable bitch. but at least i am happy now.'

she says nothing because she has nothing but lies to say.
how can you defend that.

[gldstwmn]

I laughed my head off at this fact too, knowing they’d say this about Stevie loyalists.

He knew that he would ruin the experience of many including his own fans. I just keep asking myself why?

[StevieandChris]

I'll say it AGAIN. I am not a Lindsey loyalist. I liked ALL of the band until the tambourine witch started saying these idiotic things in the press and then refused to record with the band. She can't get her stories straight about anything and it's GOD DAMN annoying. Paraphrasing "oh I won't record because music doesn't sell" "i got inspired and recorded In Your dreams" "I had to tell the members of FM that we can only tour every three years" "Lindsey didn't want to tour for a year and we can't just sit here, working is what we do." STFU

You’re right, she should have been honest that she was never going to record with him and now she is not going to tour with him. Own their decision to fire him. But I will say it AGAIN too for the millionth time...she didn’t just make these incidents up. He played a role in his own firing. I get that many of you don’t like it, but it’s what the rest of the band went along with.

[jbrownsjr]

:lol:

stevie was too busy talking about herself
how does she know what they were even doing

oh no Lindsey BREATHED ... fire him :rolleyes:

I'm glad someone appreciates me!

btw.. did you come in at Street Angel? I got hooked around /Wild Heart.. I had posters and everything.. I mean, there were clues I was gay. :laugh:

[sodascouts]

He knew that he would ruin the experience of many including his own fans. I just keep asking myself why?

I guess he was tired of letting lies go unchallenged.

Our friend Sugar Mouse said, several times, that if the band were really telling lies, then SURELY Lindsey would have said something. Sugar Mouse used Lindsey's silence as "evidence" that the band's story was legitimate.

Now Lindsey HAS said something. I, for one, am glad to have it out in the open, as much as it pains me.

As for ruined experiences, Stevie is the one who ruined the experience for me when she destroyed my favorite band.

[bombaysaffires]

You’re right, she should have been honest that she was never going to record with him and now she is not going to tour with him. Own their decision to fire him. But I will say it AGAIN too for the millionth time...she didn’t just make these incidents up. He played a role in his own firing. I get that many of you don’t like it, but it’s what the rest of the band went along with.

what incidents do you refer to? Making faces while she spoke? That's a fireable offense? There's a great scene in the Tusk doc where he's saying something and she rolls her eyes and twirls her finger beside her head in the "he's crazy" motion. Should he have insisted she be fired for that??

So let's see.....making a face, and bitching coz he didn't think they should have played a recorded song before going on. Fireable offenses.

Refusing to record, refusing to tour and holding up the band from touring because of it for almost two year such that Mick goes to Playboy and other media to whine about her not touring and saying he feared it was causing the demise of his band.... NOT fireable offenses.

Got it.

[thepoetinmyhear]

To be upfront here while I am a fan of the band, I definitely prefer Stevie and Christine to Lindsey. I have been and remain excited to see the new incarnation of the band. I also have tickets to see Lindsey who I have seen every time he has toured my area. I am excited for his show. I think there are a lot of takeaways from this article. I wasn't there and based on what I read I can see where this just went wrong in so many ways. Here are some takeaways from my viewpoint:

1. Stevie DID issue the ultimatum. How she presented it is not entirely known as we are wading through a bit of telephone for what got back to Lindsey via Irving Azoff. She may have said "Everyone - I'm 68 years old and we're still fighting the same fights. I just don't think I can do this anymore with him. I have to leave the band." Then everyone convinces her to stay saying they will fire him (maybe Mick's decision and he called everyone to get them to agree to it). OR it may have been "He's the worst person ever. Fire him now or I walk." We do not know which way it was issued - all we know is that it did come down to a him or me but there is a world of difference between even those two "him or me" statements.

2. Lindsey DID ask to delay the tour. He did not, seemingly, ask to delay as long as has been inferred in other interviews. To be fair here this section has always been a bit confusing from the CBS interview as far as how much time he allegedly asked for and I think as spectators we all believe a four month extension is not too ridiculous especially when they waited for Stevie to end her tour to even plan this one. That said there clearly was a request to delay and it was one of the fights.

3. Stevie did get her friend Mike Campbell in the band. Given the fact that this was a surprise to Mike to get this call and given that Stevie has known Mike for decades it seems unlikely to me that this was significantly pre-meditated. Tom died four months before this call. How premeditated could it be? Seemingly the Lindsey tour delay conversation had already happened and already gone poorly but Tom probably was alive when that happened or had just passed away (just a guess). If he had just passed away then I could also see the delay conversation be even more dramatic "We could die at any minute..."

4. Lindsey still, LIKE STEVIE, likes to get his way. One of the pieces here (and again as a Stevie fan I grant you I am reading it with the viewpoint) that sticks out to me is this “It wasn’t about it being ‘Rhiannon,’ ” he says. “It just undermined the impact of our entrance. That’s me being very specific about the right and wrong way to do something.” Read that again. He's STILL arguing about it. I can see where at 68/69 years old that would get tiring. No one, not even the most ardent Lindsey fan can argue that his perfectionist mentality and belief that he is always right can be a roadblock in healthy relationships (which to be fair nearly all humans suffer from this from time to time). Stevie is guilty of this too, of course but it seems strange to me to know something was one of the reasons you parted ways with your band and you still are inferring "It's unfortunate, especially because I wasn't wrong and they did things the wrong way by letting Rhiannon be our intro music."

5. No one has spoken since the ultimatum went down. It is ridiculous that no one has replied to him. Regardless of legal worries which I can imagine there are some and probably still lingering - it is insane for not one person to even pick up the phone so that it's not in writing if that is such a concern. Hard for either side to move forward from such an impasse and this seems to rest squarely with the band and their advisors. As for Lindsey saying it was all Stevie. He actually doesn't even KNOW the conversation that happened. He knows what was told to him by Irving but he clearly states in the article (and from his instagram) that he hasn't had any contact with the band. This is horrible but means even he is inferring exactly what happened based on what a 3rd party (granted an involved 3rd party) is telling him.

I am sad this happened but I can also understand it happening and be excited for the opportunities this presents ALL the performers involved. I'm happily going to see this incarnation of the band Fleetwood Mac and I will happily see Lindsey and get to hear 40+ songs between the two set lists!

[sasja]

And there we have it, & "from the horses mouth", as everyone had demanded. The expected and suspected confirmation, at long last.

Raise your hand if you are stunned, STUNNED at this, I tell you.:woohoo:


It's even worse than what I speculated, because I at least thought there was a real fight.... not "he smirked at me."

I am beyond disgusted with Stevie.

I am never seeing Fleetwood Mac again.
:xoxo::xoxo: Nance, good decision, and you know you'll not be missing a thing. Such good, real, new, exciting QUALITY music out there in the world! :thumbsup: Piles of it waiting to be discovered and cherished! Have fun digging for treasure.:blob1:

[jbrownsjr]

Have I ever told you that I love you?

Yes, in the Indiana pool when I came to visit. You were wearing a black dress, weird gloves on your hands and funny boots to make you look tall. But, I knew you weren't tall even though you wore those boots. :laugh:

[bombaysaffires]

1. Stevie DID issue the ultimatum. How she presented it is not entirely known as we are wading through a bit of telephone for what got back to Lindsey via Irving Azoff. She may have said "Everyone - I'm 68 years old and we're still fighting the same fights. I just don't think I can do this anymore with him. I have to leave the band." Then everyone convinces her to stay saying they will fire him (maybe Mick's decision and he called everyone to get them to agree to it). OR it may have been "He's the worst person ever. Fire him now or I walk." We do not know which way it was issued - all we know is that it did come down to a him or me but there is a world of difference between even those two "him or me" statements.


this is not how it went down. Her manager doesn't call LB up and say, "the band has decided to keep stevie by firing you" he calls and says Stevie has a list of things that piss her off and "Stevie never wants to be on a stage with you again" and then that she gave the band an ultimatum him or me.

Telling your manager and having your manager tell Lindsey that you never want to set foot on a stage with him again is not oh golly I'm going to leave and the band begging her to stay. That's her saying he goes or I go. It's not ambiguous at all, though people want it to be.

Read the article again:

A couple of days later, Buckingham says, “I called Irving and said, ‘This feels funny. Is Stevie leaving the band, or am I getting kicked out?’ ” Azoff told the guitarist he was “getting ousted” and that Nicks gave the rest of the band “an ultimatum: Either you go or she’s gonna go.”

She gave them an ultimatum. You get rid of him, or you lose me.

[Frankenstein]

This article does him no favors. Those of you who can't see it can't see the forest through the trees. :distress:

So how does this article make Stevie look good?

[gldstwmn]

So how does this article make Stevie look good?

I never said it did. That article is no bueno for anyone.

[thepoetinmyhear]

this is not how it went down. Her manager doesn't call LB up and say, "the band has decided to keep stevie by firing you" he calls and says Stevie has a list of things that piss her off and "Stevie never wants to be on a stage with you again" and then that she gave the band an ultimatum him or me.

Telling your manager and having your manager tell Lindsey that you never want to set foot on a stage with him again is not oh golly I'm going to leave and the band begging her to stay. That's her saying he goes or I go. It's not ambiguous at all, though people want it to be.

Read the article again:

A couple of days later, Buckingham says, “I called Irving and said, ‘This feels funny. Is Stevie leaving the band, or am I getting kicked out?’ ” Azoff told the guitarist he was “getting ousted” and that Nicks gave the rest of the band “an ultimatum: Either you go or she’s gonna go.”

She gave them an ultimatum. You get rid of him, or you lose me.

I actually presented two different possibilities to show that there is a world of difference in ultimatums. Respectfully I don’t believe either of us were there and it is possible it went multiple ways. I presented those two as extremes. The truth is probably in the middle and the ultimatum came after many calls with many people and their representatives. That is just my opinion and I present it only as such, not fact.

[jbrownsjr]

"“I don’t think there was ever anything that was just cause to be fired. We have all done things that were not constructive. All of us have worn on each other’s psyches at times. That’s the history of the group.”

Sounds a lot more honest than what the band put out.

I'm so disgusted with this woman. $he is the one $mirking now.

[bombaysaffires]

whoever was doing that thread with the timeline as the band tried to paint it vs what we were learning needs to go back and add this info in

the LB RS article says he was watching the Grammys on 28 Jan when Azoff called him. Musicares was on 26 Jan. So if you try and mesh this with the stories told by Mick and Stevie and everyone in the tv and especially the RS recorded interview, they say that they had to "think carefully" before making a decision, and Mick had to get everyone onboard, and they had to convince John it was the right decision and Chris didn't know till she got back from England. (would be useful to know when that was) Coz that's just 2 measly days from Musicares night to LB getting the phone call. So Stevie pulled that trigger IMMEDIATELY, and within two days Mick had convinced John to go along. And was Chris then ever even consulted and asked for a vote, or had Mick as we suspected rigged it so 3 of the 4 had already voted to oust him, so her opinion didn't matter?

TWO. DAYS. and then they hid behind Azoff, with no guts to call him directly. Mick is a steaming turd pile.

Mike Campbell's birthday is 1 Feb, which was just 4 days after they called Lindsey. No wonder Mick wouldn't answer Lindsey's texts over the next few weeks.. He'd already been replaced and no one had the balls to tell him. And it didn't take long to contact Finn.

That's awfully dam fast. From Musicares to firing Lindsey 2 days, in which consensus was reach among the 4???? And within 6 days of Musicares Mike is offered a spot in the band. Stevie had that seed ready to plant with Mick didn't she.

[bombaysaffires]

I actually presented two different possibilities to show that there is a world of difference in ultimatums. Respectfully I don’t believe either of us were there and it is possible it went multiple ways. I presented those two as extremes. The truth is probably in the middle and the ultimatum came after many calls with many people and their representatives. That is just my opinion and I present it only as such, not fact.

You can opine all you want, but Azoff's words are pretty unambiguous, :sorry:

"Stevie gave the band an ultimatum, you go or she goes". Where in that do you figure she just said "I can't do this anymore" and the BAND were the ones who said, don't go, we'll fire him instead, like it ws their idea to oust him. SHE put that Demand on the table.

[gldstwmn]

Stevie "I'm not the boss in the band"...... total lie.

Would you stand on stage behind your boss and make faces and mock them while they were giving a speech?

[jbrownsjr]

Would you stand on stage behind your boss and make faces and mock them while they were giving a speech?

It's wrong not to.

[bombaysaffires]

Would you stand on stage behind your boss and make faces and mock them while they were giving a speech?

would you give an ultimatum to a company that they get rid of one executive or you'll walk if you weren't the one with the most control??

[gldstwmn]

I think there is more to the story than what Lindsey is saying. Always two sides to everything, it takes two to break a relationship.

Actually it's three his, hers and the truth. And I agree with you.
[QUOTE=Alison;1239405]
I'm not defending anyone here. But lots of details seem to be missing.
I can only think things between Stevie and Lindsey have never been that good. They both know how to push buttons. Lindsey comes across as an overbearing perfectionist that has to be right. Stevie who lives in a bubble is at times oversensitive and reactive.
They seem to feed off of each other at times. I bet Lindsey can be at least emotionally abusive, knows what will stir her up.
So after many years of this, I think Stevie had enough, whatever happened at music cares may have been the tipping point of years and years of tension.
Maybe in her old age, she simply didn't want to deal with all the negative emotions and fighting anymore. I can understand how she may have come to this conclusion.
+1000

[thepoetinmyhear]

Bombay - do you feel like addressing anything else in my post such as how not even Lindsey knows what was definitively said in the conversations since he only presents Irving Azoff’s words? Or how Lindsey is still fighting the Rhiannon fight?

[sasja]

Would you stand on stage behind your boss and make faces and mock them while they were giving a speech?

I have the distinct impression that LINDSEY and JOHN are polite the longest, and it's Chris and Mick starting the shenanigans behind stevie Nicks. Of course, they didn't need to get fired though. Because... Well, the reason for that I forgot, but I know it must have been a very logical one. Not at all petty or circumspect or anything. At all. Imagine.

[gldstwmn]

Exactly. Naturally, the LB fan club here skips over that and focuses only on the smirk. It was obviously not just the smirk that lead us to this point. Note that the article says “including.” Not everything has been revealed about his behavior:

As Buckingham told Rolling Stone, a few days after the show he received a phone call from manager Irving Azoff, who proceeded to list various issues Nicks had with his behavior that night, including his complaints about their intro music being Nicks’ “Rhiannon” and that he may have “smirked” while she was giving her acceptance speech.

I wonder if he threatened Karen or worse tried to put his hands on her.

[bombaysaffires]

Bombay - do you feel like addressing anything else in my post such as how not even Lindsey knows what was definitively said in the conversations since he only presents Irving Azoff’s words? Or how Lindsey is still fighting the Rhiannon fight?

Per him, he's not fighting a fight over Rhiannon, he says it was not about the fact the song they played was Rhiannon, it was that a song was played at ALL.

Lindsey was on the call with Azoff, he recalls the point of what Azoff said, so even if he can't be certain the exact words, he is very clear about the POINT Azoff made to him which was that Stevie issued an ultimatum. I will take his word unless and until anyone else on the call comes forward over anyone in this forum, yes.

[sasja]

I wonder if he threatened Karen or worse tried to put his hands on her.

Now you are maybe reaching, right? You can't be serious surely , throwing that in the ring as an argument?

[Angel75]

I wonder if he threatened Karen or worse tried to put his hands on her.

Geez your boring. I bet you are a whole lotta fun at parties :shrug:

[KenshiMaster16]

I have said this multiple times and I firmly believe it to be pretty true; Stevie has no emotional anchor anymore and is sorta losing it.

It's well documented how Lindsey matured and chilled out with having a family. That's his anchor (wife and kids). Meanwhile, cut to Stevie, who lost her mom and dad (as we all do) but Tom as well. I cannot even begin to imagine what kind of blow those three tragic events are to her and how big a blow its been overall. Her mom and dad, especially Tom, seemed to be the ones to keep her in check and reassure her no matter what happened with the Mac, Lindsey or her solo career, that she could rise up and survive it ("That made me stronger"). Now she's just kinda drifting at sea with a bunch of 'yes men' and 'yes women' that don't anchor her properly.

I have no doubt Lindsey uses that perfectionist crap all day long and knows how to push her buttons but are they fire-able offenses? Hardly. Especially when you hold a band hostage over recording and touring in the past.

[bombaysaffires]

I wonder if he threatened Karen or worse tried to put his hands on her.

were you there?

cite your sources.

[gldstwmn]

Stevie (and Lindsey, to a much lesser extent) talk a big game about their relationship, but to me, it's Hollywood talk. If Stevie's still hung up on Lindsey, then she needs to see a counselor. I really can't tell how much of her prattle about Lindsey is real or fake- even if they were like a married couple, they were still only together what, 4 years? Hardly a lengthy period of time, although going from struggling artists to successful millionaires virtually overnight would certainly create a bond, I grant her that.

Regardless that is the story they sold to a hungry public who bought it up in droves since 1997. I can't figure out what Lindsey is trying to accomplish by shattering his own myth even if that myth does happen to include Stevie. Me personally I never shipped anyone in this band. I've been a fan way before that was even really a thing. I just don't get it.

[jmn3]

I wonder if he threatened Karen or worse tried to put his hands on her.

This is where you go with this? Seriously, get some help.

[bombaysaffires]

Regardless that is the story they sold to a hungry public who bought it up in droves since 1997. I can't figure out what Lindsey is trying to accomplish by shattering his own myth even if that myth does happen to include Stevie. Me personally I never shipped anyone in this band. I've been a fan way before that was even really a thing. I just don't get it.

He made it very clear in interviews that it was an "act" and "theatrics" -- his words. He stated that his family wasn't bothered by it because they all understood it was an act. He never pretended it was real.

[gldstwmn]

I agree fully, and am not at all surprised this happened. The fact that Christine did nothing to intervene in this tells me she empathized with Stevie and not Lindsey.

That's the real untold story isn't it? Christine and John? Thank you Chris and John. After this I don't ever want to hear what went down between you two. :shocked: :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Mick charges $600 for a scarf and a photo opp. Afraid it is all about the cash.



People like to be paid for their work, including Lindsey.

[sasja]

People like to be paid for their work, including Lindsey.

Oh my word. Mick knits shawls now? His latest business venture is selling his handicraft work? :laugh:
Starting to worry a bit about your arguments by now, gldstwmn.

Hmmm.

[gldstwmn]

So, those of you in the “know” what else was on the list of complaints besides the Rhiannon intro and smirking? Or did Rolling Stone get it wrong?

The janitor didn't hear that part. :lol: :eek:

[gldstwmn]

I guess he was tired of letting lies go unchallenged.



Well then maybe he should start with his own. :shrug:

[bombaysaffires]

Well then maybe he should start with his own. :shrug:

ah yes. throw out vague comments without detail or substantiation.

[gldstwmn]

Oh my word. Mick knits shawls now? His latest business venture is selling his handicraft work? :laugh:
Starting to worry a bit about your arguments by now, gldstwmn.

Hmmm.

I'm starting to worry there are no negative reviews for you to salivate over. ;)

[secondhandchain]

People like to be paid for their work, including Lindsey.

You want to call that work? 600 dollars? LOL He's a money grubbing you know what.

[secondhandchain]

I wonder if he threatened Karen or worse tried to put his hands on her.
That's what you are hoping happened isn't it? Maybe he "Me too'ed" her? Would that make you happy? Or maybe Stevie Nicks has turned into a self serving ego maniac? Yeah that one sounds about right.

[HomerMcvie]

You want to call that work? 600 dollars? LOL He's a money grubbing you know what.

Whore. I think that's the word you're looking for.

Mick is a money grubbing whore.

[secondhandchain]

Whore. I think that's the word you're looking for.

Mick is a money grubbing whore.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Yup, that's it's.

[HomerMcvie]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Yup, that's it's.

I've lost my filter, and couldn't give a f*ck any less! :lol::lol::wavey:

[dreamsunwind]

Pardon my long post, but your post really struck a chord with me. I know I like to think of FM as a family or as fairly tight friends, but SteveMacD is probably right- they are not close like I like to imagine. This incarnation has made, over the course of 40+years, 5 albums (FM, Rumours, Tusk, Mirage, and Tango). And we all know Tusk and Tango were not recorded by the band the way the other albums were. And when they toured, they likely spent very little time together except when they were on stage, and they makes sense, even though, again, I would have liked the idea that before the show, they might hang out and go sight seeing together, or have dinner, or whatever. Clearly they didn't, except when Billy Burnette and Rick Vito were in the band. Billy wrote in his book about how the entire band would jam after a show, including Stevie. Still, that was the exception rather than the rule. Once the band hit it big, any true closeness they had by traveling to gigs in a van or sharing hotel rooms vanished when they started taking jets and staying in individual penthouse suites. So Christine and Mick are close, Stevie and Mick are close, and John and Mick are probably kind-of close. Christine and Lindsey liked each other and had mutual respect, but they weren't close. Mick and Lindsey liked each other and had mutual respect, but they weren't close. And as I mentioned, during the past 40+years, they all probably went several years without communicating. We all know from mid-1987 to mid-1996, there was very little communication between them. Stevie recorded Twisted with Lindsey, and Mick and John worked on an album with Lindsey, but that was it. From 1997-2014, Christine probably talked to no one but Mick. I doubt Lindsey and John hung out, or Stevie and John, or Christine and John, or Christine and Stevie, or Christine and Lindsey. Mick seems to be the glue, if you will.

Stevie (and Lindsey, to a much lesser extent) talk a big game about their relationship, but to me, it's Hollywood talk. If Stevie's still hung up on Lindsey, then she needs to see a counselor. I really can't tell how much of her prattle about Lindsey is real or fake- even if they were like a married couple, they were still only together what, 4 years? Hardly a lengthy period of time, although going from struggling artists to successful millionaires virtually overnight would certainly create a bond, I grant her that.

The reason I write all this is that I've come to realize in the past few years that Stevie doesn't want to work with Lindsey anymore in the studio, and now she doesn't want to tour with him anymore, either. We know she didn't want to record with him because... after Say You Will, she didn't and wouldn't. She never said that in interviews, but it was obvious. Right or wrong, she made that decision and stuck to it, but she was still willing to tour with him. Then something happened and it sounds like she said "that's it, it's either him or me" and the band made their decision. I can't fault them, they need to make money to support their lifestyles, and recording doesn't bring in the money that touring does. Here's why people are going to say I'm wrong, but I can't fault Stevie, either. Regardless of her reasoning, she gave the band a the chance to choose, and they chose her. I've worked at the same agency for nearly 25 years in various positions, and I've had my share of conflicts with co-workers. While I've never given an ultimatum like that to my boss ("that's it, it's either him or me"), there have been times I wanted to! It's just that I couldn't afford to lose my job! Stevie CAN afford to issue that sort of ultimatum. We have to remember that being in FM is a job for them. In that respect, is it right to expect people who don't want to work together be forced to do so for our enjoyment?

A lot of people say that Stevie should have swallowed her pride, and that she owes Lindsey because if it hadn't been for Lindsey insisting she be allowed to join FM as well, she wouldn't be where she is today. Well, that's true, but it's just as possible that FM wouldn't have achieved the level of fame and success they did without Stevie. The simple fact is, those 3 songwriters created something together that probably wouldn't have existed if there had only been 2 of them. Lindsey left in 1987 because he had reached his limit and sadly, he left in 2018 because Stevie reached her limit. I don't recall anyone saying in 1987 that Lindsey should have sucked it up and toured with FM because he owed them for letting him join FM. Stevie doesn't owe Lindsey anymore. They've all been vastly rewarded for their work a million times over, financially and creatively.

Whew... again, sorry for the long post. I am not trying to change anyone's mind here. I just wanted to show another POV here. Lindsey's interview was very classy and I am THRILLED that he shared his story. I can't wait to see him in concert.

I get what you're saying and I agree that they're not all each other's very good friends but they're people who met each other decades ago and have stayed working together, on and off, ever since then. I think there's just something in having known someone and worked with them for such a lengthy period of time that's supposed to be special. Like Kristen even said, her kids called them 'Aunt' and 'Uncle' even if they didn't see each other that often.

And in the end I don't think getting picky about who owes or doesn't owe who what, who made the band what it was, who did this or that-- in the end I think whoever could do this to someone else just really messed up big time. No matter which way you spin it or how you may try to reason behind it, it's just a sad, ugly thing to do to someone.

[thepoetinmyhear]

Per him, he's not fighting a fight over Rhiannon, he says it was not about the fact the song they played was Rhiannon, it was that a song was played at ALL.

Lindsey was on the call with Azoff, he recalls the point of what Azoff said, so even if he can't be certain the exact words, he is very clear about the POINT Azoff made to him which was that Stevie issued an ultimatum. I will take his word unless and until anyone else on the call comes forward over anyone in this forum, yes.

I don't see any evidence to support that his objection was over the playing of ANY song. Perhaps you can point me to where I am missing that in the article. Either way - my point remains that he is still fighting the fight and expressing his argument which is odd for something that he KNOWS helped lead to his ouster. Isn't that WEIRD?

I agree with you on Irving. I don't dispute that Irving said that. If you believe that what Irving is related to have said represents the entirety of the conversation then that is your right. Seems like a very short version of what probably happened especially with as many people and representatives and promoters would have been involved.

Stevie: It's Him or Me
The band minus Lindsey: Stevie
Irving: Lindsey - stevie said it was you or her and they picked her
Lindsey: bummer

I somehow doubt, given these people (and Stevie's penchant for being wordy), that this represents the entirety of the conversation and that it's far more likely that there was a discussion about it and that there are varying degrees of how the ultimatum was issued. It may very well have been issued in the harshest tone possible. It may also have been issued in a way in which the him or me question was genuine and she was offering to leave if they (the other band members) preferred that outcome. NEITHER OF US WAS THERE and BOTH fit within the words that have been presented to us. Anything beyond that is purely opinion/conjecture on either of our parts.

[secondhandchain]

Tambourine witch had an endgame all along. Not only did she use her power to get Lindsey Buckingham fired from FM, leaving her the boss of the band. She knew she would get nominated for the RRHOF, knowing this will completely humiliate Lindsey. There are no words to describe what a **** she has become. DON'T SAY IT DAVID!
I leave it to your imagination.

[dreamsunwind]

I don't see any evidence to support that his objection was over the playing of ANY song. Perhaps you can point me to where I am missing that in the article. Either way - my point remains that he is still fighting the fight and expressing his argument which is odd for something that he KNOWS helped lead to his ouster. Isn't that WEIRD?

I agree with you on Irving. I don't dispute that Irving said that. If you believe that what Irving is related to have said represents the entirety of the conversation then that is your right. Seems like a very short version of what probably happened especially with as many people and representatives and promoters would have been involved.

Stevie: It's Him or Me
The band minus Lindsey: Stevie
Irving: Lindsey - stevie said it was you or her and they picked her
Lindsey: bummer

I somehow doubt, given these people (and Stevie's penchant for being wordy), that this represents the entirety of the conversation and that it's far more likely that there was a discussion about it and that there are varying degrees of how the ultimatum was issued. It may very well have been issued in the harshest tone possible. It may also have been issued in a way in which the him or me question was genuine and she was offering to leave if they (the other band members) preferred that outcome. NEITHER OF US WAS THERE and BOTH fit within the words that have been presented to us. Anything beyond that is purely opinion/conjecture on either of our parts.

"It wasn’t about it being ‘Rhiannon,’ ” he says. “It just undermined the impact of our entrance. That’s me being very specific about the right and wrong way to do something.”
That pretty much says he just didn't want a song playing at all. That song happened to be Rhiannon but he says clearly it wasn't because it was Rhiannon. Whether that's the full truth, we'll never know but that is what he says.

And I think just about everyone seems to be misinterpreting Stevie's ultimatum. It's not like she turned to Mick, John and Christine and said "him or me" and forced them to pick. It would never have played that way. Fleetwood Mac is under a machine now. I'd argue that Mick has very minimal power and Chris and John have basically none. Stevie went to the MANAGEMENT and said that. That's why Irv Azoff was the one on the phone with Lindsey. The managers and promoters are the ones who pretty much run what these people do and they're the ones who would look at that group and say 'Stevie puts butts in seats and if she leaves then we're broke so if she's really serious, then he's out'.

[StevieandChris]

what incidents do you refer to? Making faces while she spoke? That's a fireable offense? There's a great scene in the Tusk doc where he's saying something and she rolls her eyes and twirls her finger beside her head in the "he's crazy" motion. Should he have insisted she be fired for that??

So let's see.....making a face, and bitching coz he didn't think they should have played a recorded song before going on. Fireable offenses.

Refusing to record, refusing to tour and holding up the band from touring because of it for almost two year such that Mick goes to Playboy and other media to whine about her not touring and saying he feared it was causing the demise of his band.... NOT fireable offenses.

Got it.

Hello? The article implies she had a list of issues, including the smirk. The interviewer didn’t seem to ask what else was on that list. Too bad. He was not just fired for the smirk or intro.

And if you read what I wrote earlier this evening in this thread, I said her refusing to record would have made her firing justified, had they decided to do so.

[secondhandchain]

Hello? The article implies she had a list of issues, including the smirk. The interviewer didn’t seem to ask what else was on that list. Too bad. He was not just fired for the smirk or intro.

And if you read what I wrote earlier this evening in this thread, I said her refusing to record would have made her firing justified, had they decided to do so.

She refuses to record, she dictates how many years in between touring, the list of her diva behavior goes on and on.

[button-lip]

The email thing really gave me cold chills, too. It's disgusting.

The fact that the three Buck kids were calling these people aunties and uncles since they were born gave me more chills, to be honest. :distress::distress:

[StevieandChris]

She refuses to record, she dictates how many years in between touring, the list of her diva behavior goes on and on.

Good. :laugh:

[HomerMcvie]

The fact that the three Buck kids were calling these people aunties and uncles since they were born gave me more chills, to be honest. :distress::distress:

That truly shows how heartless and self absorbed she's become.

[thepoetinmyhear]

"It wasn’t about it being ‘Rhiannon,’ ” he says. “It just undermined the impact of our entrance. That’s me being very specific about the right and wrong way to do something.”
That pretty much says he just didn't want a song playing at all. That song happened to be Rhiannon but he says clearly it wasn't because it was Rhiannon. Whether that's the full truth, we'll never know but that is what he says.

And I think just about everyone seems to be misinterpreting Stevie's ultimatum. It's not like she turned to Mick, John and Christine and said "him or me" and forced them to pick. It would never have played that way. Fleetwood Mac is under a machine now. I'd argue that Mick has very minimal power and Chris and John have basically none. Stevie went to the MANAGEMENT and said that. That's why Irv Azoff was the one on the phone with Lindsey. The managers and promoters are the ones who pretty much run what these people do and they're the ones who would look at that group and say 'Stevie puts butts in seats and if she leaves then we're broke so if she's really serious, then he's out'.

Thank you - I really hadn't interpreted it that way. I thought it was more like it wasn't specifically about the song rhiannon, it was about choosing a song everyone was involved with like the chain. I recognize that was a big leap in my head and your interpretation makes far more sense.

[DownOnRodeo]

Hello? The article implies she had a list of issues, including the smirk.

Stevie has a list of issues alright. :laugh: :(

[Macfan4life]

I do agree with someone's comment that Fleetwood Mac has become a machine. Its not a band where members discuss things or fight. They don't even schedule tours, etc. Its a money making machine that could care less about it's legacy. Everyone can be replaced except for Stevie of course.
The worst part in this which I think has not been discussed was the cold shoulder Lindsey got from the band. WTF? No one is man or woman enough to explain the decision or treat him with any dignity or respect?
I no longer feel guilty about wearing a Buckingham Nicks T shirt to Lindsey's concert with a piece of tape over (Nicks).
Gosh I hope Lindsey writes a book and throws Mick and Stevie under the train.

[sasja]

I'm starting to worry there are no negative reviews for you to salivate over. ;)

Never say never! I remain optimistic!! :thumbsup:

[TheWildHeart67]

When I was 17, I would have been really worked-up about all these happenings.
Hell, even in my 20's.
But at 51 years old, I just am not as star-obsessed about behind the scenes drama, and my life doesn't revolve around the personal issues of the band members of Fleetwood Mac, or any other celebrity.
I could care less.
Their music as a group and as solo artists provided the soundtrack of my life, and I will always love the music.
It will always be about the music for me.

[bwboy]

When I was 17, I would have been really worked-up about all these happenings.
Hell, even in my 20's.
But at 51 years old, I just am not as star-obsessed about behind the scenes drama, and my life doesn't revolve around the personal issues of the band members of Fleetwood Mac, or any other celebrity.
I could care less.
Their music as a group and as solo artists provided the soundtrack of my life, and I will always love the music.
It will always be about the music for me.

Amen! I was 16 when Lindsey left the band in 1987, and I was devastated. Tango in the Night was released and I was planning to see them live for what would have been my first concert ever, and then there it was in USA Today- Lindsey Buckingham left FM just before their tour started. I was so upset, even pi$$ed off because Lindsey kept my dream from coming true. Even when Billy and Rick joined and the tour went on, I didn't see them. But then the concert reviews started coming in and I realized there could be a FM after Lindsey, and I got to see that for myself on their next tour. And even though I loved the Behind the Mask lineup, I was thrilled when Lindsey returned for the Dance.

The way I see it, while it's disappointing Lindsey was fired, the fact is we were lucky to have this FM back from 1996-2016. And I'll be on board if/when Lindsey returns for a final tour, but I'm still going to enjoy FM now.

[NurseDJackson]

I don't buy most of this. There'll be a Rumours lineup final tour in 2020 (if everyone stays alive)... More than that, bc Nicks and Buckingham are the big names (and he has *an anthology* to tour—really, a glorified greatest hits???) it's easy to make the press about the two of them.

If I recall correctly, when it was four of them Nicks got 40% and the guys split the other 60% three ways. Adding Christine McVie changes that, surely, and the other two new ones could be hired and paid separately (but it's still gotta come from somewhere)...The point of this, IT'S FLEETWOOD AND CHRISTINE MCVIE WHO MADE THIS DECISION!! Perhaps Stevie Nicks finally put her orthopedic boot down, bc that would be the thing that'd make all the money people side with them, but there's no amount of anything that Buckingham OR Nicks could say that would convince me this isn't in some large part a way to promote his solo tour, give them something fun to do, and then reconvene for a final tour. BUT MORE THAN THAT...IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN IN FLEETWOOD MAC LONGER THAN Buckingham and Nicks.

It's CHRISTINE MCVIE, PEOPLE!! I'd put money on it.

[ryan4136]

When the stage is dead and empty

And the band has all gone home

When the lights go out

What's it all about

Sitting there on your own

[Kyle]

Gosh I hope Lindsey writes a book and throws Mick and Stevie under the train.

Mutually assured destruction.

[lennonfan]

my instinct on this has been to be on Team Lindsey from the start.
I made the right choice.
I feel anger towards Stevie and Mick.
...but it's Christine and John that have hurt me emotionally in this, I never would have thought after BuckVie this could possibly happen....and not to even call him, with John living across the street lol.
I thought the Bob Welch incident stunk, but this one was cold to the bone.
I'm going to have to block this stuff out when listening to the old stuff from now on.

[bombaysaffires]

"It wasn’t about it being ‘Rhiannon,’ ” he says. “It just undermined the impact of our entrance. That’s me being very specific about the right and wrong way to do something.”
That pretty much says he just didn't want a song playing at all. That song happened to be Rhiannon but he says clearly it wasn't because it was Rhiannon. Whether that's the full truth, we'll never know but that is what he says.

And I think just about everyone seems to be misinterpreting Stevie's ultimatum. It's not like she turned to Mick, John and Christine and said "him or me" and forced them to pick. It would never have played that way. Fleetwood Mac is under a machine now. I'd argue that Mick has very minimal power and Chris and John have basically none. Stevie went to the MANAGEMENT and said that. That's why Irv Azoff was the one on the phone with Lindsey. The managers and promoters are the ones who pretty much run what these people do and they're the ones who would look at that group and say 'Stevie puts butts in seats and if she leaves then we're broke so if she's really serious, then he's out'.

I don't disagree with you about this part. But per Mick this caused them all to have conversations about what to do going forward, and that all happened super fast. Given how Mick is, I would bet he directly talked to John at some point, and you know Mick would have talked to Stevie (or tried to get through) and they got to that point he described various times as basically deciding can we do this (without Lindsey), do we want to do this, and obviously ultimately decided yes, we can and we will. Then at some point Chris was told.....by whom we don't know. It almost sounds like the 3 in the US decided while she was in London and in her case I wouldn't be surprised if she heard through a manager (does she share the same manager as Mick?) the decision.

It raises the question of deciding on Mike ... per Mike he got a call from Mick asking him if he'd be interested just 6 days after Musicares. Lindsey heard from Azoff just 2 days after Musicares.. which means if Stevie didn't give the ultimatum to the band herself, she told Azoff pretty dam quick and he told the rest even quicker, because the ultimatum was made, the band had whatever conversations to decide who to fire, and Lindsey got told of it all within 2 days. So there wasn't really a whole lot of stressing over who to throw under the bus was there? And you just know Stevie had Mike as her backup card and then put that out there for them to debate over (she may have put conditions on staying that Mike be in or that she get to pick Lindsey's replacement or whatever.... we'll see if that ever comes out) because they didn't even audition him or meet with him, just Mick calling him within a matter of days. All very fishy and feeling premeditated.

[aleuzzi]

I don't buy most of this. There'll be a Rumours lineup final tour in 2020 (if everyone stays alive)... More than that, bc Nicks and Buckingham are the big names (and he has *an anthology* to tour—really, a glorified greatest hits???) it's easy to make the press about the two of them.

If I recall correctly, when it was four of them Nicks got 40% and the guys split the other 60% three ways. Adding Christine McVie changes that, surely, and the other two new ones could be hired and paid separately (but it's still gotta come from somewhere)...The point of this, IT'S FLEETWOOD AND CHRISTINE MCVIE WHO MADE THIS DECISION!! Perhaps Stevie Nicks finally put her orthopedic boot down, bc that would be the thing that'd make all the money people side with them, but there's no amount of anything that Buckingham OR Nicks could say that would convince me this isn't in some large part a way to promote his solo tour, give them something fun to do, and then reconvene for a final tour. BUT MORE THAN THAT...IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN IN FLEETWOOD MAC LONGER THAN Buckingham and Nicks.

It's CHRISTINE MCVIE, PEOPLE!! I'd put money on it.

Attributing primary blame to Christine makes no sense whatsoever. Granted, her “radio silence” to Buckingham is beyond disappointing, but she neither has the leverage or the motive to lead the charge for his being fired. This was totally a Stevie-Mick thing. We all know this.

But I’m right there with you on the 2020 Mac reunion. They’ll want to capitalize on the reunion of the Rumours lineup again...

[singertobe]

I really want to return my meet and greet tickets but we've already spent $600 that we can't get back. Also I'm tempted to burn my Stevie Nicks bag from the 24 kt gold tour but I have nothing else to carry my books.

[Storms123]

Attributing primary blame to Christine makes no sense whatsoever. Granted, her “radio silence” to Buckingham is beyond disappointing, but she neither has the leverage or the motive to lead the charge for his being fired. This was totally a Stevie-Mick thing. We all know this.

But I’m right there with you on the 2020 Mac reunion. They’ll want to capitalize on the reunion of the Rumours lineup again...

I will say, so much of this does smack of a media/publicity stunt.
1. Fleetwood Mac gets a station dedicated to them XM Sirius ahead of Musicares tribute
2. Station launch is delayed
3. Rumours line up breaks up after a feud at Musicares, where they were the first band ever granted the honor. Stevie can never be on stage with Lindsey again but the story we will go with is scheduling conflict
4. Tugging at the heartstrings of TPH fans all over the world, Stevie hires her deceased best buddies wingman to replace her former lover, the man who wouldn’t join the band without her
5. CBS interview. Disaster and leaks left and right the band is lying.
6. Band walks away from initial story behind why they broke up. It’s not a scheduling conflict
7. Rumors that Christine briefly quit but Mick talked her into staying
8. Announce a N American tour
9. Lindsey releases Anthology and Tour
10. Stevie goes back on AHS
11. Stevie is nominated for RRHoF as a solo artist...she probably gets in.
12. Lindsey tells his side to Rolling Stone. I am sure Stevie will tell hers
13. Lindsey alludes to new music in 2019 (solo)

It could be very poetic. Stevie gets into the Hall of Fame next year. Starts saying nice things about LB in the press. With the tail end of the current FM tour next year, along with a lot of hype that Stevie is the only woman to get inducted as part of a band and a solo artist. Lindsey is in the road with new music. At some point, benefiting from all of the positive press they are all getting, Stevie and Lindsey sit down and re air all of their grievances with each other, clear the air, landslide and lovey dovey, sloppy datey Sara hugs and FM announces a 2020 “Farewell Tour”. Assuming no one is pushing up daisies
Now I am not saying this will happen....I am just saying a scenario like this is par for the course for this crew

[jbrownsjr]

The fact that the three Buck kids were calling these people aunties and uncles since they were born gave me more chills, to be honest. :distress::distress:

It's hard to explain how awful I felt for him. Again, the firing is horrible. But, $he didn't have the balls to call him. $he had Mgmt do it.

Goes back to DR and the mixing issue. $he is an entitled piece of crap and I have zero respect for her.

[jbrownsjr]

That truly shows how heartless and self absorbed she's become.

And some her fans $upport it. But, to be fair, $he's lost a lot of die hard fans. Not just here. I read the twitter, IG, FB.. just wow...

[Machu]

Sounds like they are all dysfunctional. But we knew that already. Lindsey seems as much of a controlling ass as Stevie is loony. It's all part of the reason they're great artists. The good ones are never sane.

[jbrownsjr]

I really want to return my meet and greet tickets but we've already spent $600 that we can't get back. Also I'm tempted to burn my Stevie Nicks bag from the 24 kt gold tour but I have nothing else to carry my books.

:lol::lol::lol:

[DreamIsOver]

That Stevie's grief over Petty's death has apparently driven her to adopt an "only do things that make me happy" when the real lesson should have been "appreciate what you've got while you got it" really says it all.

[vivfox]

It's hard to explain how awful I felt for him. Again, the firing is horrible. But, $he didn't have the balls to call him. $he had Mgmt do it.
Goes back to DR and the mixing issue. $he is an entitled piece of crap and I have zero respect for her.


Do you recall the first week you were made a Mod on TL and I had a problem with it? Just like then it is sentences like this that should disqualify you completely from ever being a fair minded Moderator. Part of a good Moderator's job is to remain neutral to all parties involved. It is perfectly ok to share your views to your friend's in a private message but the words you say in the public forum should all be positive. If you can't do that perhaps you should go back to being just a regular member of TL and then you can continue bashing band members and no one would say, "there is no one moderating The Ledge any longer." IMHO

[StevieandChris]

Do you recall the first week you were made a Mod on TL and I had a problem with it? Just like then it is sentences like this that should disqualify you completely from ever being a fair minded Moderator. Part of a good Moderator's job is to remain neutral to all parties involved. It is perfectly ok to share your views to your friend's in a private message but the words you say in the public forum should all be positive. If you can't do that perhaps you should go back to being just a regular member of TL and then you can continue bashing band members and no one would say, "there is no one moderating The Ledge any longer." IMHO

Agree. 100%. There are very few real moderators here. Only the suck ups to the I hate Stevie Club. And this was going on WAY before LB got the boot.

[Sugar Mouse]

Let's assume for a moment that Lindsey is correct - that Stevie said she wouldn't stay in the band if Lindsey were there. Do you think there might be reasons for her to feel that way? Do you think Lindsey had any role in her feeling that way? Or do you really believe that Stevie simply make an ultimatum with no legitimate reasons? It seems awfully unlikely that she would push to remove the musical leader of the band putting the entire future of the band in jeopardy unless she had some legitimate reasons. Most interpersonal conflicts involve blame on both sides and almost never have one-sided blame. Food for thought.

[jbrownsjr]

Let's assume for a moment that Lindsey is correct - that Stevie said she wouldn't stay in the band if Lindsey were there. Do you think there might be reasons for her to feel that way? Do you think Lindsey had any role in her feeling that way? Or do you really believe that Stevie simply make an ultimatum with no legitimate reasons? It seems awfully unlikely that she would push to remove the musical leader of the band putting the entire future of the band in jeopardy unless she had some legitimate reasons. Most interpersonal conflicts involve blame on both sides and almost never have one-sided blame. Food for thought.

I did this in my head. And while I appreciate it, what kills me is, they didn't have the guts to have a meeting and then the whole silent treatment.

[Jondalar]

Let's assume for a moment that Lindsey is correct - that Stevie said she wouldn't stay in the band if Lindsey were there. Do you think there might be reasons for her to feel that way? Do you think Lindsey had any role in her feeling that way? Or do you really believe that Stevie simply make an ultimatum with no legitimate reasons? It seems awfully unlikely that she would push to remove the musical leader of the band putting the entire future of the band in jeopardy unless she had some legitimate reasons. Most interpersonal conflicts involve blame on both sides and almost never have one-sided blame. Food for thought.

Oh for God sake, have you not been paying attention to her behavior. Assume the worst when it comes to Lindsey and you would be correct. She has never gotten past things and it’s all about her.

[jeets2000]

Do you recall the first week you were made a Mod on TL and I had a problem with it? Just like then it is sentences like this that should disqualify you completely from ever being a fair minded Moderator. Part of a good Moderator's job is to remain neutral to all parties involved. It is perfectly ok to share your views to your friend's in a private message but the words you say in the public forum should all be positive. If you can't do that perhaps you should go back to being just a regular member of TL and then you can continue bashing band members and no one would say, "there is no one moderating The Ledge any longer." IMHO

I tried, and I couldn't think of anything I cared about less than whether a moderator on this board shares his opinions about the members of this band. Please don't take this as me telling you how you should feel -- I'm not. Just sharing my perspective.

But I do think stipulating that "the words you say in the public forum should all be positive" ... is really quite extreme. I mean, come on. Why would anyone agree to be a moderator if they couldn't say how they feel about a song, a performance, a personnel move if it's at all negative? We're all adults here and can handle reading each other's opinions.

[HomerMcvie]

I tried, and I couldn't think of anything I cared about less than whether a moderator on this board shares his opinions about the members of this band. Please don't take this as me telling you how you should feel -- I'm not. Just sharing my perspective.

But I do think stipulating that "the words you say in the public forum should all be positive" ... is really quite extreme. I mean, come on. Why would anyone agree to be a moderator if they couldn't say how they feel about a song, a performance, a personnel move if it's at all negative? We're all adults here and can handle reading each other's opinions.
Exactly. I agree 100%.

What FM fan would want to mod here, if they weren't allowed an opinion? I'm sure they're really raking in the dough, doing their mod job here.

[jbrownsjr]

Do you recall the first week you were made a Mod on TL and I had a problem with it? Just like then it is sentences like this that should disqualify you completely from ever being a fair minded Moderator. Part of a good Moderator's job is to remain neutral to all parties involved. It is perfectly ok to share your views to your friend's in a private message but the words you say in the public forum should all be positive. If you can't do that perhaps you should go back to being just a regular member of TL and then you can continue bashing band members and no one would say, "there is no one moderating The Ledge any longer." IMHO

Thank the lord, that's not my job. And never once has Michele ever said to me I can't have my own opinions. She's asked me to make sure you guys don't kill each other. Which I've locked threads and shut things down.
And guess what: When I did that, people got mad at me.

The moderators discuss certain issues when decisions are made whether to suspend, move threads, etc. As I've said to before, if you don't like it, take it up with Michele. She's made it quite clear that having problems with band members in not a violation in her book. As much as you'd like to take them away from me, I'm entitled to my opinions.

[jbrownsjr]

Exactly. I agree 100%.

What FM fan would want to mod here, if they weren't allowed an opinion? I'm sure they're really raking in the dough, doing their mod job here.

I get paid in comments like that. I guess some people only care about band members' feelings and not the people they interact with on a daily basis. I'm guessing this is because some people can't be disagreed with.

Oh well. I have thick skin. And I bow to Louie!! You warned me!!!

[HomerMcvie]

I get paid in comments like that.

I'm guessing this is because some people can't be disagreed with.



I got your back! :xoxo:

Now I'm confused... are you talking about $tevie, or certain members here? :p

[Storms123]

I get paid in comments like that. I guess some people only care about band members' feelings and not the people they interact with on a daily basis. I'm guessing this is because some people can't be disagreed with.

Oh well. I have thick skin. And I bow to Louie!! You warned me!!!

There’s a story out there now on Radar online ( sorry I don’t know how to link) that he’s suing them for breach of contract. No way of know the level of truth ( honestly reads like a piecemeal version of the RS interview. Not entirely shocked though if it is true

[jbrownsjr]

I got your back! :xoxo:

Now I'm confused... are you talking about $tevie, or certain members here? :p

I'm talking about the band. People rake LB and MIck over, too. This place would have 2 people if we kicked everyone out. :nod:

Go visit some FB, IG or Twitter accounts. It's mild here people.

[jbrownsjr]

There’s a story out there now on Radar online ( sorry I don’t know how to link) that he’s suing them for breach of contract. No way of know the level of truth ( honestly reads like a piecemeal version of the RS interview. Not entirely shocked though if it is true

Wow, so it may get ugly. I've heard nothing from my sources about any legal matters. They got that s** locked up tight.

Wonder if it's true.

[trackaghost]

There’s a story out there now on Radar online ( sorry I don’t know how to link) that he’s suing them for breach of contract. No way of know the level of truth ( honestly reads like a piecemeal version of the RS interview. Not entirely shocked though if it is true

Here it is:

Ex ‘Fleetwood Mac’ Star Lindsey Buckingham Slams Band In Shocking Lawsuit: ‘I’ve Only Gotten Radio Silence!’ (https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2018/10/fleetwood-mac-guitarist-lindsey-buckingham-sues-band-dropping-tour/)


Lindsey Buckingham said he was heartbroken when he was suddenly cut off from Fleetwood Mac, and now the former lead guitarist is suing his former bandmates for breach of contract after he was dropped from the band’s North American tour, according to court documents obtained exclusively by RadarOnline.com

In a suit filed at Los Angeles Superior Court, Buckingham, 69, said he and other members — Christine McVie, John McVie, Stevie Nicks and Mick Fleetwood — signed with Live Nation for a 60-show tour over the next two years, with each member poised to make about $12 to $14 million.

Buckingham claimed everyone in the band wanted to start the tour in August 2018, but he asked to push it to November because he wanted to work on his solo album. Nicks reportedly only wanted to do three shows a week, which meant the band’s North American tour would take even longer.

The star said he and the other members agreed to Nicks’ request, and the band managers negotiated with LiveNation for 60 shows in North America, which included Buckingham.

In the affidavit, Buckingham said from December 2017 to January 2018, he also was exploring his options on whether he could embark on a small tour to promote his solo album.

Buckingham claimed he made it clear he considered the Fleetwood Mac tour as a priority and would do “whatever was necessary” to participate on the tour. However, about a week after the band performed at the Jan. 28 MusiCares event, Buckingham said he was suddenly dropped not only from the planned tour, but also from the band he helped create.


Buckingham said he has repeatedly reached out to members of the band. In an email to Christie McVie, Buckingham wrote:

“After forty-three years and the finish line clear in sight, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that for the five of us to splinter apart now would be the wrong thing. Wrong for the beautiful legacy we’ve built together. Wring for our legions of loyal fans who would hate to see the final act be a breakup. Wrong for ourselves, and all that we’ve accomplished and shared together.”

Buckingham said after he sent the email, he also offered to fly to Maui to meet with Nicks and Fleetwood, but his offer was rebuffed by both.

Buckingham said while continued to make efforts to keep the band together, the other members allegedly “secretly, and unceremoniously, moved on without him, including hiring contract players to replace Buckingham’s iconic vocals and guitar parts on the live performances of the recordings” he created.


“On information and belied the other Partners, by wrongful excluding Buckingham, have sought to enrich themselves at Buckingham’s expense. Buckingham brings this lawsuit in order to assure his rights to the usurped Fleetwood Mac Partnership opportunity.”

In an interview on the CBS show “This Morning” on April 25, 2018, Fleetwood said, “This team wanted to get out on the road and one of the members did not want to get out on the road for a year.”

Buckingham is suing for breach of contract, breach of fiduciary duty and intentional interference with prospective economic advantage.


In an email to Fleetwood dated February 28, 2018, Buckingham wrote he wondered whether the rift between him and the other band members was possibly caused by attorneys and management.

“In times past, the band has always relied on it’s center, it’s heart and soul to work through difficulties when they arose. But now, those around the edges — attorneys, management — have stepped in and rendered that center silent and impotent. Because of this, the only info and insights I’ve been able to get about things have come from those on the edges. And consequently, I wonder if there hasn’t been an undue amount of intrigue and misinformation thrown into the mix. All of this breaks my heart.”


No idea if it's true or not but it's certainly interesting.

[NotonRodeo]

I'm not certain it's true, but I would definitely love the idea that the Goat Queen would have to tour just to pay legal damages to Lindsey. Karma :D

[secondhandchain]

I hope he gets ALL of the money he is due.

[jbrownsjr]

I tried, and I couldn't think of anything I cared about less than whether a moderator on this board shares his opinions about the members of this band. Please don't take this as me telling you how you should feel -- I'm not. Just sharing my perspective.

But I do think stipulating that "the words you say in the public forum should all be positive" ... is really quite extreme. I mean, come on. Why would anyone agree to be a moderator if they couldn't say how they feel about a song, a performance, a personnel move if it's at all negative? We're all adults here and can handle reading each other's opinions.

Thank you. You've been quite kind and fair to me.

[Macfan4life]

If Lindsey sues, he better make it quick. Don Felder still gets paid big bucks for every Eagles tour when they play his songs.

[Storms123]

Wow, so it may get ugly. I've heard nothing from my sources about any legal matters. They got that s** locked up tight.

Wonder if it's true.

It could get really ugly. Not sure if the accuracy of Radaronline. The article reads like the RS interview so who knows.

[sodascouts]

Oh man. A lawsuit really would put the kibosh on any reunion down the road. I hope it's not true, but that article is very specific. If it's not true, they're pulling a lot out of their rear ends.

[HomerMcvie]

If Lindsey sues, he better make it quick. Don Felder still gets paid big bucks for every Eagles tour when they play his songs.

I hope he sues the pants off them!

[David]

I have said this multiple times and I firmly believe it to be pretty true; Stevie has no emotional anchor anymore and is sorta losing it. It's well documented how Lindsey matured and chilled out with having a family. That's his anchor (wife and kids). Meanwhile, cut to Stevie, who lost her mom and dad (as we all do) but Tom as well.Stevie's definitely growing more than a little barmy. Mom died, Dad died, Glen's son died, Prince died, Glenn Frey died, and Petty died. Lots of death in her world in recent years giving her an intimation of her own end and maybe making her philosophical.

But she's barmy, too—falling in love with the Twilight movies, singing with Lana Del Rey and other young Stevie surrogates, doing embarrassing cameos in several of the Ryan Murphy TV shows. She used to have pretty good taste in movies, but how can she go from Cocteau and Wyler to Twilight?!

I have no doubt Lindsey uses that perfectionist crap all day long and knows how to push her buttons but are they fire-able offenses?Nope. They're just annoyances, like her inability to take studio work seriously or her penchant for telling interminable anecdotes onstage night after night. In a band, the only people you fire for being annoying are people who have no standing or value in the band.

Nicks had just finished a big, happy tour with the Pretenders when she fired Lindsey. Her solo career—with albums, press coverage, tours, guest spots, and riches—is flourishing. Why didn't she just leave Fleetwood Mac? What does she want with Fleetwood Mac? What does she get from Fleetwood Mac that she doesn't get from her solo career? If I had been her at that point, I'd have said "I quit" and gone out on tour again. Her decision to destroy the Rumours Five strikes me as mean-spirited, almost like revenge for something-or-other. It's also mean to the legions of Rumours Five fans—did she think of any of them, or just herself?

[sleepless child]

Sounds like a legit article. Things make more sense now. Well, maybe not. LOL. None of it makes any real sense.

[NotonRodeo]

If this is true eventually somebody will make the text of the complaint public. Of course the Goat Queen and her accomplices will have to respond to the complaint. Then we will finally have answers, made under penalty of perjury, to all the questions we have.

If it's true this ought to be fun :thumbsup: This band is going down in flames. Serves them right frankly. Their legacy is in tatters.

[Storms123]

If this is true eventually somebody will make the text of the complaint public. Of course the Goat Queen and her accomplices will have to respond to the complaint. Then we will finally have answers, made under penalty of perjury, to all the questions we have.

If it's true this ought to be fun :thumbsup: This band is going down in flames. Serves them right frankly. Their legacy is in tatters.

Between alimony, child support, and lawsuits.....Mick may need to get some session work when the tour ends

[Feather Blade]

Do you recall the first week you were made a Mod on TL and I had a problem with it? Just like then it is sentences like this that should disqualify you completely from ever being a fair minded Moderator. Part of a good Moderator's job is to remain neutral to all parties involved. It is perfectly ok to share your views to your friend's in a private message but the words you say in the public forum should all be positive. If you can't do that perhaps you should go back to being just a regular member of TL and then you can continue bashing band members and no one would say, "there is no one moderating The Ledge any longer." IMHO

Thank you!!! Although instead of the "positive words" section, I would say that a moderator (on every other form I've been part of at least) should be NEUTRAL on all positions and careful not to take either side. It is all part of professionalism. If someone wants to name-call and get nasty they need to let go of their responsibilities and join the masses.

[NotonRodeo]

Reading through the article, it appears that there is indeed an entity called Fleetwood Mac Partnership, of which Lindsey is apparently a member. It also seems that Neil and Mike, however Mick refers to them, are just "contract" players--I guess since they are not full-fledged partners in the partnership. I'm not a lawyer, just one who has had more than the usual share of lawsuits ...

And if the info is true then it was really stupid of Stevie to insist on firing Lindsey. There were signed contracts. I highly doubt smirking is sufficient legal justification for removing him from the partnership.

[DeepBlueDee]

A couple of the other tabloids are reporting the lawsuit story as well. (US Weekly, The National Enquirer) None of these are known for their quality journalism, (The National Enquirer is a total fish wrapper here in the US), so who knows? :shrug:

If any of those quoted attempts at communicating with his bandmates are accurate, however, and the response was "radio silence", then it's more than just sad, it's cruel and disgusting.

I hope this isn't true, but I don't believe they will ever be reuniting again anyway.:(

[NotonRodeo]

Between alimony, child support, and lawsuits.....Mick may need to get some session work when the tour ends

He will be headed for his third (or fourth? I've lost count) bankruptcy :thumbsup:

[secondhandchain]

I hope he sues the pants off them!

I hope he sues that black dress off her. I mean it probably needs a good washing.

[StevieandChris]

“Buckingham claimed everyone in the band wanted to start the tour in August 2018, but he asked to push it to November because he wanted to work on his solo album. Nicks reportedly only wanted to do three shows a week, which meant the band’s North American tour would take even longer.”

Just putting this quote here. So if this is true, he DID want to delay the tour so this must have been another item on her list of complaints. Funny he forgot to mention this to the RS reporter...and that means the rest of the band did not lie in their initial statement doesn’t it?

[Frankenstein]

Nicks had just finished a big, happy tour with the Pretenders when she fired Lindsey. Her solo career—with albums, press coverage, tours, guest spots, and riches—is flourishing. Why didn't she just leave Fleetwood Mac? What does she want with Fleetwood Mac? What does she get from Fleetwood Mac that she doesn't get from her solo career? If I had been her at that point, I'd have said "I quit" and gone out on tour again. Her decision to destroy the Rumours Five strikes me as mean-spirited, almost like revenge for something-or-other. It's also mean to the legions of Rumours Five fans—did she think of any of them, or just herself?

Really good point and I’ve wondered the same. Before 24K tour I guess you could list the fact that FM plays arenas and bigger crowds but even that doesn’t give enough of a satisfactory answer. Now that Lindsey is out, she now has the ability to say she is the boss both solo and with the band...

[saniette]

“Buckingham claimed everyone in the band wanted to start the tour in August 2018, but he asked to push it to November because he wanted to work on his solo album. Nicks reportedly only wanted to do three shows a week, which meant the band’s North American tour would take even longer.”

Just putting this quote here. So if this is true, he DID want to delay the tour so this must have been another item on her list of complaints. Funny he forgot to mention this to the RS reporter...and that means the rest of the band did not lie in their initial statement doesn’t it?

Nice try, but Lindsey did mention this to the RS reporter, who is David Fricke by the way. These "gotcha" attempts on behalf of the Stevie brigade are fun though. The band did not tell the "whole truth", that's where the lying comes in. Even if the firing was justified as you claim, they still owed Lindsey a response. Pretty unclassy behavior on their part.

Buckingham confirms that, at a band meeting in late 2017 — shortly after a series of shows with McVie to promote their project, Lindsey Buckingham/Christine McVie — he asked for “three or four months extra” to do solo dates. There was “stonewalling,” he claims. “I left the meeting because there was nothing else to talk about.”

But he insists that Fleetwood Mac always “came first. And I don’t think there was ever anything that was just cause to be fired. We have all done things that were not constructive. All of us have worn on each other’s psyches at times. That’s the history of the group.”

[Jondalar]

The big mistake was not kicking her out whe she refused to do a new album with Fleetwood Mac. They really don’t need the money.

[sodascouts]

They said he wanted to delay it a whole year rather than four months. Also, they make it sound like he outright refused to compromise, outright refused to agree to their timeline, when we know that's not the case.

Sorry, they still lied.

If they wanted to be truthful about "scheduling issues" they would have said: "he asked for four months. We said no. He accepted that and tried to find another way so that Fleetwood Mac could tour on the timeline we wanted."

Of course, that wouldn't make Lindsey sound unreasonable, and wouldn't make him look bad, so they had to "massage" the truth.

I really hope that even if you support Stevie, you aren't supportive of deceit.

[StevieandChris]

Nice try, but Lindsey did mention this to the RS reporter, who is David Fricke by the way. These "gotcha" attempts on behalf of the Stevie brigade are fun though. The band did not tell the "whole truth", that's where the lying comes in. Even if the firing was justified as you claim, they still owed Lindsey a response. Pretty unclassy behavior on their part.

Buckingham confirms that, at a band meeting in late 2017 — shortly after a series of shows with McVie to promote their project, Lindsey Buckingham/Christine McVie — he asked for “three or four months extra” to do solo dates. There was “stonewalling,” he claims. “I left the meeting because there was nothing else to talk about.”

But he insists that Fleetwood Mac always “came first. And I don’t think there was ever anything that was just cause to be fired. We have all done things that were not constructive. All of us have worn on each other’s psyches at times. That’s the history of the group.”

All, missed it in the RS article.

But my point is many of the fans refused to believe he ever wanted to delay at all.

The band was being smart not to communicate. I doubt they are surprised by this action.

[Angel75]

Between alimony, child support, and lawsuits.....Mick may need to get some session work when the tour ends

HAHAHAHA Aint that the truth.
Karma's a b!tch Mick

[jeets2000]

“Buckingham claimed everyone in the band wanted to start the tour in August 2018, but he asked to push it to November because he wanted to work on his solo album. Nicks reportedly only wanted to do three shows a week, which meant the band’s North American tour would take even longer.”

Just putting this quote here. So if this is true, he DID want to delay the tour so this must have been another item on her list of complaints. Funny he forgot to mention this to the RS reporter...and that means the rest of the band did not lie in their initial statement doesn’t it?

A three-month delay! The horror... the horror...

Yet it was portrayed by Stevie here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P4li9i4Tjs#t=3m15s) as a year-long delay, which is now pretty clearly spin.

[StevieandChris]

They said he wanted to delay it a whole year rather than four months. Also, they make it sound like he outright refused to compromise, outright refused to agree to their timeline, when we know that's not the case.

Sorry, they still lied.

If they wanted to be truthful about "scheduling issues" they would have said: "he asked for four months. We said no. He accepted that and tried to find another way so that Fleetwood Mac could tour on the timeline we wanted."

Of course, that wouldn't make Lindsey sound unreasonable, and wouldn't make him look bad, so they had to "massage" the truth.

I really hope that even if you support Stevie, you aren't supportive of deceit.

I think he is being just as deceitful. And many fans here were claiming he never tried to delay. We’ll continue to disagree.

[StevieandChris]

A three-month delay! The horror... the horror...

Yet it was portrayed by Stevie here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P4li9i4Tjs#t=3m15s) as a year-long delay, which is now pretty clearly spin.

Or his saying November if this year is his spin. Remember much of the fans were denying he ever wanted a delay at all. Now we find he did.

[sodascouts]

Or his saying November if this year is his spin. Remember much of the fans were denying he ever wanted a delay at all. Now we find he did.

Why do you keep bring up what some of his fans thought when we are discussing deceit? He has no control over that. Plus, those fans were in the minority. Far more guessed rightly - that after initially requesting a short delay and getting rebuffed, he went for the concurrent tour. I know that is what I thought after hearing what people close to the band were saying.

Regardless, what we are talking about is whether or not the band members themselves are bring honest.

[jeets2000]

Or his saying November if this year is his spin. Remember much of the fans were denying he ever wanted a delay at all. Now we find he did.

This is at least the second time you've mentioned that "many fans" believed he didn't ask for a delay. What on earth does that have to do with what was actually said between members of the band and the decisions that were made thereafter? It's completely irrelevant.

[StevieandChris]

Why do you keep bring up what some of his fans thought when we are discussing deceit? He has no control over that. Plus, those fans were in the minority. Far more guessed rightly - that after initially requesting a short delay and getting rebuffed, he went for the concurrent tour. I know that is what I thought after hearing what people close to the band were saying.

Regardless, what we are talking about is whether or not the band members themselves are bring honest.

I bring it up because people here were not saying the rest of the band was telling half-truths, as some are saying now, they were saying the band was outright lying. Which I don’t think is the case.

[dreamsunwind]

Why do you keep bring up what some of his fans thought when we are discussing deceit? He has no control over that. Plus, those fans were in the minority. Far more guessed rightly - that after initially requesting a short delay and getting rebuffed, he went for the concurrent tour. I know that is what I thought after hearing what people close to the band were saying.

Regardless, what we are talking about is whether or not the band members themselves are bring honest.

Exactly. At least that's what I thought happened. They wouldn't have mentioned a delay if it had never once been an option. It's like telling a half truth. You only say part of what happened and conveniently just not mention the rest of it.

[saniette]

I bring it up because people here were not saying the rest of the band was telling half-truths, as some are saying now, they were saying the band was outright lying. Which I don’t think is the case.

Stevie implied in the RS interview that Lindsey wanted a delay of 1 year, so that was a lie. Funny how the band ended up starting 2 months later than planned because they fired Lindsey? So I guess delays of a few months aren't that big of a deal?

https://www.iheart.com/alternate/amp/2018-04-25-stevie-nicks-says-lindsey-buckingham-wanted-to-delay-tour-before-ousting/

Singer Stevie Nicks tells Rolling Stone that Buckingham wanted to delay the band's upcoming world tour until the fall of 2019 — more than a year from the trek's current start date — but the rest of the band wasn't interested in waiting.

Nicks says she was going to keep busy one way or another, even after a lengthy solo tour.

"We were supposed to go into rehearsal in June and he wanted to put it off until November [2019]," Nicks said. "That's a long time. I just did 70 shows. As soon as I finish one thing, I dive back into another. Why would we stop? We don't want to stop playing music. We don't have anything else to do. This is what we do."

[kak125]

Lindsey Buckingham is done waiting for Fleetwood Mac to cough up money he says he's owed ... so the former lead guitarist for the group is suing his old bandmates for dropping him and, more importantly, not paying him.

In the suit, Lindsey says he and the rest of the legendary band signed a deal with Live Nation for a 60-show tour over 2 years. They were reportedly supposed to make about $14 million each.

As we reported, though, Lindsey was kicked out before the band started its North American tour. Remember, Mac classics like "Go Your Own Way" and "Don't Stop" are largely Lindsey jams ... with him singing the lead and playing lead guitar.

But, Lindsey's issue isn't sentimental ... it's financial. He tells TMZ ... "Over the last eight months, our many efforts to come to an agreement have unfortunately proved elusive. I’m looking forward to closure, and will always remain proud of all that we created, and what that legacy represents."

Lindsey is suing the band and each individual member for breach of contract and breach of fiduciary duty. Translation: You guys owe me money, and it's time to pay.

Mick Fleetwood made it clear to us back in May, Lindsey is not welcome back. He's been replaced on the tour by Mike Campbell from Tom Petty's Heartbreakers and Neil Finn from Crowded House.

http://www.tmz.com/2018/10/11/fleetwood-mac-lindsey-buckingham-lawsuit-against-band-dropped-farewell-tour/