Lindsey discusses his firing (Rolling Stone)

[Feather Blade]

Lindsey Buckingham is done waiting for Fleetwood Mac to cough up money he says he's owed ... so the former lead guitarist for the group is suing his old bandmates for dropping him and, more importantly, not paying him.

In the suit, Lindsey says he and the rest of the legendary band signed a deal with Live Nation for a 60-show tour over 2 years. They were reportedly supposed to make about $14 million each.

As we reported, though, Lindsey was kicked out before the band started its North American tour. Remember, Mac classics like "Go Your Own Way" and "Don't Stop" are largely Lindsey jams ... with him singing the lead and playing lead guitar.

But, Lindsey's issue isn't sentimental ... it's financial. He tells TMZ ... "Over the last eight months, our many efforts to come to an agreement have unfortunately proved elusive. I’m looking forward to closure, and will always remain proud of all that we created, and what that legacy represents."

Lindsey is suing the band and each individual member for breach of contract and breach of fiduciary duty. Translation: You guys owe me money, and it's time to pay.

Mick Fleetwood made it clear to us back in May, Lindsey is not welcome back. He's been replaced on the tour by Mike Campbell from Tom Petty's Heartbreakers and Neil Finn from Crowded House.

http://www.tmz.com/2018/10/11/fleetwood-mac-lindsey-buckingham-lawsuit-against-band-dropped-farewell-tour/

Not sure I understand how he could sue each individual member as well. Fourteen million is a lot of guitar strings. The other articles seem to be avoiding an ugly dollar figure.

[HomerMcvie]

Lindsey Buckingham is done waiting for Fleetwood Mac to cough up money he says he's owed ... so the former lead guitarist for the group is suing his old bandmates for dropping him and, more importantly, not paying him.

In the suit, Lindsey says he and the rest of the legendary band signed a deal with Live Nation for a 60-show tour over 2 years. They were reportedly supposed to make about $14 million each.

As we reported, though, Lindsey was kicked out before the band started its North American tour. Remember, Mac classics like "Go Your Own Way" and "Don't Stop" are largely Lindsey jams ... with him singing the lead and playing lead guitar.

But, Lindsey's issue isn't sentimental ... it's financial. He tells TMZ ... "Over the last eight months, our many efforts to come to an agreement have unfortunately proved elusive. I’m looking forward to closure, and will always remain proud of all that we created, and what that legacy represents."

Lindsey is suing the band and each individual member for breach of contract and breach of fiduciary duty. Translation: You guys owe me money, and it's time to pay.

Mick Fleetwood made it clear to us back in May, Lindsey is not welcome back. He's been replaced on the tour by Mike Campbell from Tom Petty's Heartbreakers and Neil Finn from Crowded House.

http://www.tmz.com/2018/10/11/fleetwood-mac-lindsey-buckingham-lawsuit-against-band-dropped-farewell-tour/
I hope he gets every f*cking penny!

[bombaysaffires]

Not sure I understand how he could sue each individual member as well. Fourteen million is a lot of guitar strings. The other articles seem to be avoiding an ugly dollar figure.

the dollar amount is mentioned in the court docs, in which they lay out what each partner was expected to make from the tour.

$14 million is also a lot of tambourines.

Or drumsticks.

Or gas for John's boat.

Or wine.

[secondhandchain]

“Buckingham claimed everyone in the band wanted to start the tour in August 2018, but he asked to push it to November because he wanted to work on his solo album. Nicks reportedly only wanted to do three shows a week, which meant the band’s North American tour would take even longer.”

Just putting this quote here. So if this is true, he DID want to delay the tour so this must have been another item on her list of complaints. Funny he forgot to mention this to the RS reporter...and that means the rest of the band did not lie in their initial statement doesn’t it?

SHE SAID TWO YEARS he wanted to delay. SHE LIES. Plus the loon constantly delays tours. please

[SteveMacD]

I hope he gets every f*cking penny!

Assuming he signed the contract. However, a concurrent tour might be construed as a breach. Lindsey is going up against Azoff. Should be interesting.

[Sugar Mouse]

Got to be tough playing 800 seat theaters when your old band is playing 20,000 seats a night. My understanding is that Mick Fleetwood and John McVie co-own Fleetwood Mac and all the others are technically employees. Thus, I believe Mick/John probably had the right to fire Lindsey. Lindsey may be entitled to some portion of the proceeds from this tour if they had a contract in place and it sounds like this is the basis for the lawsuit; in other words, Lindsey believes he's entitled to his share of the revenue from this current tour which, by report, was about 14 million. Apparently he and the band have been discussing a settlement since he was fired and nothing has come of that negotiation so now he's suing essentially to get paid. My guess is that Lindsey has a weak case as contracts usually have an clause saying that the person isn't entitled to the money if he/she is fired for cause. I suspect the band will say that they fired him for cause. That being said, it's probably best for both parties that this be resolved quickly so this will probably be quietly settled before long.

[Macfan4life]

Got to be tough playing 800 seat theaters when your old band is playing 20,000 seats a night. My understanding is that Mick Fleetwood and John McVie co-own Fleetwood Mac and all the others are technically employees. Thus, I believe Mick/John probably had the right to fire Lindsey. Lindsey may be entitled to some portion of the proceeds from this tour if they had a contract in place and it sounds like this is the basis for the lawsuit; in other words, Lindsey believes he's entitled to his share of the revenue from this current tour which, by report, was about 14 million. Apparently he and the band have been discussing a settlement since he was fired and nothing has come of that negotiation so now he's suing essentially to get paid. My guess is that Lindsey has a weak case as contracts usually have an clause saying that the person isn't entitled to the money if he/she is fired for cause. I suspect the band will say that they fired him for cause. That being said, it's probably best for both parties that this be resolved quickly so this will probably be quietly settled before long.
Yes most of these cases settle which means pay day for Mr. Buckingham. With them playing so many Lindsey songs, I would not be surprised a settlement happened. Lindsey quit the band and they only played Go Your Own Way. He gets fired and they are playing Monday Morning, Second Hand News, and Go Your Own Way. If these songs are so vital to FM Legacy, why would they fire him. Clearly they feel a need to perform these songs.

[gldstwmn]

Got to be tough playing 800 seat theaters when your old band is playing 20,000 seats a night. My understanding is that Mick Fleetwood and John McVie co-own Fleetwood Mac and all the others are technically employees. Thus, I believe Mick/John probably had the right to fire Lindsey. Lindsey may be entitled to some portion of the proceeds from this tour if they had a contract in place and it sounds like this is the basis for the lawsuit; in other words, Lindsey believes he's entitled to his share of the revenue from this current tour which, by report, was about 14 million. Apparently he and the band have been discussing a settlement since he was fired and nothing has come of that negotiation so now he's suing essentially to get paid. My guess is that Lindsey has a weak case as contracts usually have an clause saying that the person isn't entitled to the money if he/she is fired for cause. I suspect the band will say that they fired him for cause. That being said, it's probably best for both parties that this be resolved quickly so this will probably be quietly settled before long.

Well said. Thanks.

[bwboy]

Various people have said Stevie gets paid the most, followed by the rest of the band. However, the article said each member was expected to be paid $14 million for the tour. If that's true, then it would seem Stevie doesn't get paid anymore than anyone else in the band.

I just thought that was kind of interesting. Just goes to show no one here knows anything after all, and I'm including myself of in that statement. All these theories about who knew what, who said what, an incident that happened in 1975, a fight during MusiCares, who hates who and who's really at fault, it's all headache inducing.

[jwd]

So the white witch gets her panties in a major wad and all hell breaks loose!

Thanks Stevie! :xoxo:

[secondhandchain]

Well said. Thanks.

Wow you really hate Lindsey don't you?

[bwboy]

Wow you really hate Lindsey don't you?

I sincerely don't understand why you would make that comment to someone about hating Lindsey when you are doing the same thing with Stevie. I'm not trying to provoke you, but why are you surprised at someone hating Lindsey at least as much as you hate Stevie?

[Jondalar]

Various people have said Stevie gets paid the most, followed by the rest of the band. However, the article said each member was expected to be paid $14 million for the tour. If that's true, then it would seem Stevie doesn't get paid anymore than anyone else in the band.

I just thought that was kind of interesting. Just goes to show no one here knows anything after all, and I'm including myself of in that statement. All these theories about who knew what, who said what, an incident that happened in 1975, a fight during MusiCares, who hates who and who's really at fault, it's all headache inducing.

I never thought she got paid more. It always bothered me when people said that because I knew they were wrong.

[BigAl84]

Stevie's definitely growing more than a little barmy. Mom died, Dad died, Glen's son died, Prince died, Glenn Frey died, and Petty died. Lots of death in her world in recent years giving her an intimation of her own end and maybe making her philosophical.

But she's barmy, too—falling in love with the Twilight movies, singing with Lana Del Rey and other young Stevie surrogates, doing embarrassing cameos in several of the Ryan Murphy TV shows. She used to have pretty good taste in movies, but how can she go from Cocteau and Wyler to Twilight?!

Nope. They're just annoyances, like her inability to take studio work seriously or her penchant for telling interminable anecdotes onstage night after night. In a band, the only people you fire for being annoying are people who have no standing or value in the band.

Nicks had just finished a big, happy tour with the Pretenders when she fired Lindsey. Her solo career—with albums, press coverage, tours, guest spots, and riches—is flourishing. Why didn't she just leave Fleetwood Mac? What does she want with Fleetwood Mac? What does she get from Fleetwood Mac that she doesn't get from her solo career? If I had been her at that point, I'd have said "I quit" and gone out on tour again. Her decision to destroy the Rumours Five strikes me as mean-spirited, almost like revenge for something-or-other. It's also mean to the legions of Rumours Five fans—did she think of any of them, or just herself?

what a fantastic post. If anyone could write a Fleetwood Mac op ed piece, it would be you. That was a great read.

I think present Stevie gets this out of current FM: A sense of power and control. Affirmation that despite ALL the OTHER members, a large chunk is there because of her. At 70 this is all she has. Her songs, persona, and a circle of friends who tell her only what she likes. It was a blow to her ego when Christine came back and a double threat when the rest of the band could get along and make something without her name on it.

She now chooses wisely what she wants to attach herself to, wisely only favoring things that will put her in the spotlight. Twilight, AHS, Death of Tom Petty....all hugely convenient things to use to weave a web that only cocoons her in the spotlight, bringing her into the center of the narrative.

This is a person who literally thought so highly of herself, she presented her own autograph as a gift item to somebody else...and prided on the fact that shes stingey with signing autographs for anyone.

[Storms123]

Various people have said Stevie gets paid the most, followed by the rest of the band. However, the article said each member was expected to be paid $14 million for the tour. If that's true, then it would seem Stevie doesn't get paid anymore than anyone else in the band.

I just thought that was kind of interesting. Just goes to show no one here knows anything after all, and I'm including myself of in that statement. All these theories about who knew what, who said what, an incident that happened in 1975, a fight during MusiCares, who hates who and who's really at fault, it's all headache inducing.

THat's interesting. I actually thought the songwriters got paid the most--or maybe that's after everything. IE the all have the same "Base" but then royalties on top of for the songs?

[singertobe]

I'm just gonna post this and call it a day https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjbsLvzzv_dAhXOtVMKHVo0Cl4QjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmemebase.cheezburger.com%2Fverydemotivational%2Ftag%2Ffleetwood-mac&psig=AOvVaw3R3ClVrWVv3u0Gzzs4DMMS&ust=1539389495115973

[DownOnRodeo]

Got to be tough playing 800 seat theaters when your old band is playing 20,000 seats a night.

Yep, Petty Stevie & the Heartbreakers are playing 20,000 seats--only problem is half the seats are empty.

[secondhandchain]

I sincerely don't understand why you would make that comment to someone about hating Lindsey when you are doing the same thing with Stevie. I'm not trying to provoke you, but why are you surprised at someone hating Lindsey at least as much as you hate Stevie?

I don't like her based on her behavior (look at what she just did) the last couple of years. Refusing to record, firing Lindsey, bashing him in the press (yes she has), dictating when FM tours. "I used to love her so much" What has Lindsey done the last couple of years that even comes CLOSE to what Stevie has done? NOTHING

[SteveMacD]

Yep, Petty Stevie & the Heartbreakers are playing 20,000 seats--only problem is half the seats are empty.

Not last night.

[jwd]

Not last night.

Congrats to Lindsey for shaping the sound that so many of them want to come and hear! ****ing shame he couldn't be there for the party!

[singertobe]

Does anyone else wonder how Carol Ann Harris is thinking of all this. The Mac she described in her book seem so different to the Mac of today.

[Sugar Mouse]

Yep, Petty Stevie & the Heartbreakers are playing 20,000 seats--only problem is half the seats are empty.

Huh? The shows thus far have been close to sell outs.

[DownOnRodeo]

Lindsey quit the band and they only played Go Your Own Way. He gets fired and they are playing Monday Morning, Second Hand News, and Go Your Own Way. If these songs are so vital to FM Legacy, why would they fire him. Clearly they feel a need to perform these songs.

I think the band (or it's management's) play was that they could pull the old switcheroo (Lindsey for Neil Finn) and no one would notice or care. Look at the way Neil is cavorting around the stage during GYOW just like Lindsey (with more spinning, granted..).

Also they're currently trying to spruik the Best Of 50 Years package, and most of the male lead vocal songs on that are Lindsey's.

The talk about this lineup being a whole new thing and each new member bringing something new is probably just Mick and the management trying to convince Neil that he hasn't been hired simply as a used car salesman.

[secondhandchain]

Huh? The shows thus far have been close to sell outs.

Nope and the next few shows only get worse.

[jwd]

I think the band (or it's management's) play was that they could pull the old switcheroo (Lindsey for Neil Finn) and no one would notice or care. Look at the way Neil is cavorting around the stage during GYOW just like Lindsey (with more spinning, granted..).

Also they're currently trying to spruik the Best Of 50 Years package, and most of the male lead vocal songs on that are Lindsey's.

The talk about this lineup being a whole new thing and each new member bringing something new is probably just Mick and the management trying to convince Neil that he hasn't been hired simply as a used car salesman.

:laugh: So true!

[secondhandchain]

This quote from tambourine witch gets me the most mad: "We were supposed to go into rehearsal in June and he wanted to put it off until next November,” Nicks told Rolling Stone in April. “That’s a long time. I just did 70 shows [on a solo tour]. As soon as I finish one thing, I dive back into another. Why would we stop? We don’t want to stop playing music. We don’t have anything else to do. This is what we do.” WHAT A LIAR Before it was "i had to tell them we can only tour every 3 years" SHE LIES and LIES SOME MORE And by the way they do have things to do, unlike YOU stevie they have families and a LIFE.

[BigAl84]

Huh? The shows thus far have been close to sell outs.

DUDE. The internet. Ticketmaster. It's a real thing. Try it. You can see the empty seats.

And by the way...it's already been documented that staff is walking around venues and giving free upgrades to floor seats in order to fill out the floor.

Additionally venues and live nation will literally give tickets away in any way possible in order to fill seats at the last minute.

Do your homework first.

[HomerMcvie]

DUDE. The internet. Ticketmaster. It's a real thing. Try it. You can see the empty seats.

And by the way...it's already been documented that staff is walking around venues and giving free upgrades to floor seats in order to fill out the floor.

Additionally venues and live nation will literally give tickets away in any way possible in order to fill seats at the last minute.

Do your homework first.
Sugar Mick hears what she wants to hear.

[jmn3]

This quote from tambourine witch gets me the most mad: "We were supposed to go into rehearsal in June and he wanted to put it off until next November,” Nicks told Rolling Stone in April. “That’s a long time. I just did 70 shows [on a solo tour]. As soon as I finish one thing, I dive back into another. Why would we stop? We don’t want to stop playing music. We don’t have anything else to do. This is what we do.” WHAT A LIAR Before it was "i had to tell them we can only tour every 3 years" SHE LIES and LIES SOME MORE And by the way they do have things to do, unlike YOU stevie they have families and a LIFE.

Here's the thing about the whole timeline which enrages me and has since that piss poor interview. She never EVER said November 2019. She said "next" November, which to most normal functioning American English speakers would imply November 2019. But in the most technical use of the words, the 'next' November would be 2018, which would jive with what Lindsey is saying. (For any Seinfeld fans...you likely remember this line of Jerry's about the 'next Wednesday.')

She purposely worded it that way to leave it ambiguous and open for interpretation. And everyone, including the interviewers and others, jumped on the "OMG dude wanted to wait like another 15 months to tour - they're too old to wait that long!" When in reality, they started their tour approximately one month ahead of when Lindsey wanted to start it.

[Storms123]

I will say, so much of this does smack of a media/publicity stunt.
1. Fleetwood Mac gets a station dedicated to them XM Sirius ahead of Musicares tribute
2. Station launch is delayed
3. Rumours line up breaks up after a feud at Musicares, where they were the first band ever granted the honor. Stevie can never be on stage with Lindsey again but the story we will go with is scheduling conflict
4. Tugging at the heartstrings of TPH fans all over the world, Stevie hires her deceased best buddies wingman to replace her former lover, the man who wouldn’t join the band without her
5. CBS interview. Disaster and leaks left and right the band is lying.
6. Band walks away from initial story behind why they broke up. It’s not a scheduling conflict
7. Rumors that Christine briefly quit but Mick talked her into staying
8. Announce a N American tour
9. Lindsey releases Anthology and Tour
10. Stevie goes back on AHS
11. Stevie is nominated for RRHoF as a solo artist...she probably gets in.
12. Lindsey tells his side to Rolling Stone. I am sure Stevie will tell hers
13. Lindsey alludes to new music in 2019 (solo)

It could be very poetic. Stevie gets into the Hall of Fame next year. Starts saying nice things about LB in the press. With the tail end of the current FM tour next year, along with a lot of hype that Stevie is the only woman to get inducted as part of a band and a solo artist. Lindsey is in the road with new music. At some point, benefiting from all of the positive press they are all getting, Stevie and Lindsey sit down and re air all of their grievances with each other, clear the air, landslide and lovey dovey, sloppy datey Sara hugs and FM announces a 2020 “Farewell Tour”. Assuming no one is pushing up daisies
Now I am not saying this will happen....I am just saying a scenario like this is par for the course for this crew

So THIS probably won't happen now :]

[NurseDJackson]

Attributing primary blame to Christine makes no sense whatsoever. Granted, her “radio silence” to Buckingham is beyond disappointing, but she neither has the leverage or the motive to lead the charge for his being fired. This was totally a Stevie-Mick thing. We all know this.

But I’m right there with you on the 2020 Mac reunion. They’ll want to capitalize on the reunion of the Rumours lineup again...

——Especially in light of the lawsuit, yes, pointing fingers to Christine McVie might seem unreasonable, and I'm glad you questioned it, but it's sort of also an Occam's Razor suggestion...or at least a "wait, why isn't this person ever mentioned?———

1. She was gone for a long time and just came back in the last few years (as in, her income in the last 16 years was what, residuals and investments?)

2. She was with Fleetwood/McVie through, what, technically 5 of the various members who left over the years before Buckingham and Nicks, and was with them through another bunch of revolving members? If her feelings aren't given the same weight as Mick Fleetwood's then perhaps she's as "toxic" as he is and people believe Nicks to be. This "rhythm section" (she's referred to herself as that) has appeared to chew up and spit out guitar players, before and after Nicks.

3. She supposedly almost quit again, disappeared, was in England, people couldn't get a hold of her, Buckingham refers to her supposed "fragility", and in the CBS interview she was the most clearly disturbed (looking away, wringing her hands)—an interpretation of that could go either way. I just think it's strange that NO ONE BELIEVES SHE'D HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.

Those were my main reasons for advancing McVie's possible part in this, especially because I've read dozens of comments that leave her out of the equation entirely. Not to mention that Nicks and McVie have discussed their shared experiences together over the years and maybe the two of them wanted that again (esp since McVie went out on the road with Buckingham alone)...

And while she's not playing a single C. McVie composition from before 1975 (and a hell of a lot of Tango) there are too many old FM songs in the setlist for this decision to be entirely Stevie Nicks' doing. Yes, Buckingham and McVie made the legend, but the majority of the hits since 1975 are Christine McVie (only As Long As You Follow not going top 40, and like all but 2 are top 20)...how does she not have a say? This wouldn't even be happening without her return. The 2.5 hour Buckingham/Nicks spar-a-thon was getting awfully stale and no one would be having this convo if she hadn't returned. I really believe that above all else.

If everyone really has this 20%/shared agreement he's claiming in the lawsuit then she certainly does have a say. But which is it? That asses in seats can be proven (Nicks upgraded to stadiums as a solo act with the addition of The Pretenders), that Nicks' people call the shots because she makes the most money for the most people? One thing we do know is that Fleetwood is going where the money is. He's always come across as a "Big Daddy"/a psychopath, But Christine McVie is not innocent. And all I can say about John McVie is that if he hadn't almost died of cancer he'd probably be another person to ask a question or two about. Gone fishin' whenever he's been able to over the years, mostly opening his mouth to complain that Buckingham's stripping down his bass parts or costing him money in the studio...

Hell, it was Nicks who noted, shortly after meeting Fleetwood, "beware of the people/who look not straight at you/the keeper of the time is blind"... I just think there's waaay too much speculation about the Nicks/Buckingham angle and I think it's reasonable to assume there's more to this.

OH AND STORMS—that list is AMAZING!!! YES!

[secondhandchain]

Here's the thing about the whole timeline which enrages me and has since that piss poor interview. She never EVER said November 2019. She said "next" November, which to most normal functioning American English speakers would imply November 2019. But in the most technical use of the words, the 'next' November would be 2018, which would jive with what Lindsey is saying. (For any Seinfeld fans...you likely remember this line of Jerry's about the 'next Wednesday.')

She purposely worded it that way to leave it ambiguous and open for interpretation. And everyone, including the interviewers and others, jumped on the "OMG dude wanted to wait like another 15 months to tour - they're too old to wait that long!" When in reality, they started their tour approximately one month ahead of when Lindsey wanted to start it.

Didn't she say two years in another interview?

[secondhandchain]

Sugar Mick hears what she wants to hear.

if you check the sections for the next show 100plus seats are available in MANY sections. If Lindsey would have been there this would have not happened. Lindsey may not sell a ton of tickets solo, but as a part of FM he puts people in those seats.

[bombaysaffires]

From the article in Variety:

So why did Buckingham get forced out? Loeb & Loeb evidently decided the lawsuit was not the place to go there, even as they attempt to methodically knock down all the official explanations that Nicks, Fleetwood and the two McVies have offered up in interviews.

[jmn3]

Didn't she say two years in another interview?

I can’t recall but it’s likely especially considering she’s really into believing her own lies.

[AncientQueen]

From the article in Variety:

So why did Buckingham get forced out? Loeb & Loeb evidently decided the lawsuit was not the place to go there, even as they attempt to methodically knock down all the official explanations that Nicks, Fleetwood and the two McVies have offered up in interviews.Next step: Hell breaks loose because FM bring up everything that Lindsey said or did over the years to make sure that Stevie is the victim here and not him.
Stay tuned for him calling them liars, them suing him for defamation, him suing them for slander.
I'm already exhausted from the BS.

[John Run]

Next step: Hell breaks loose because FM bring up everything that Lindsey said or did over the years to make sure that Stevie is the victim here and not him.
Stay tuned for him calling them liars, them suing him for defamation, him suing them for slander.
I'm already exhausted from the BS.

This is most likely the next steps in what is going to become an ugly and public back and forth exposing the underbelly of each of the band members and their handlers.

Maybe outside the potential replacement of John there was little in the filling that was not known or reasonably suspected to be known by people who have been following along. However to the much larger world this is new information that mostly contradicts the public narrative the band had try to shape.

Unlike a previous poster, in my opinion there are parts of this case that have significant chance of sustaining under sympathetic to aggrieved California law. Particularly, if there are written communications from Live Nation about potential earnings from the tour and they are dated prior to his termination. Additionally, if it can be documented that Buckingham paid in capital to the benefit of the partnership then he will show strong a right to recovery and additional remedy.

The band will move for a summary judgment to dismiss, but that burden is high, so some to much of the case will survive until such time a settlement is reached.

You will see a public chipping away at Buckingham. Probably mostly off the record, difficult to prove, but reasonably accurate, even if framed to paint him in the worst possible light. This will be done to silence him through embarrassment and bring him and his attorneys to a quiet settlement.

Remember this, Lindsey has his version of the truth. Fleetwood Mac and in particular Stevie have created an insular word where they work hard to control the narrative and that narrative real or imagined is their reinforced truth. I can’t believe all but the most delusioned didn’t expect litigation to happen. You don’t terminate a partner from a 9 figure entity with zero compensation and expect them go quietly crying into the night.

Notably absent in this filing is a reference to Azoff. If he was simultaneously representing Buckingham individually and Fleetwood Mac collectively that is whole other conflict interest and exposure to damages that may have already been addressed and settled.

A shame that this will be the parting snapshot of one the great bands of our time.

[DownOnRodeo]

This is most likely the next steps in what is going to become an ugly and public back and forth exposing the underbelly of each of the band members and their handlers.

Something that Mick lives and breathes.

Any publicity is good publicity.

It occurs to me that Mick and the managers etc. may be salivating over the upside potential to all this.

Sadly for him though it most likely won't turn out to be free publicity, which may be the trigger for an early settlement.

And if I'm wrong about the glee that Mick and the Machine may have about all the media attention and dramatic narrative, then it just becomes a question of how long the defendants other than Stevie are willing to put up the fight just for the sake of validating her choices and keeping her happy.

[StevieandChris]

I don't like her based on her behavior (look at what she just did) the last couple of years. Refusing to record, firing Lindsey, bashing him in the press (yes she has), dictating when FM tours. "I used to love her so much" What has Lindsey done the last couple of years that even comes CLOSE to what Stevie has done? NOTHING

Obviously enoughto get fired. The rest of the story is about to come out. We’ll see what the courts decide.

[bombaysaffires]

Obviously enoughto get fired. The rest of the story is about to come out. We’ll see what the courts decide.

Actually no one knows yet if he did anything that merits being fired. Just because they fired him doesn't mean he was deserving of it, that's what the lawsuit is about.

All we know for sure is she didn't want to work with him enough to give an ultimatum and that Mick and the rest chose sides with a heavy influence on making money. We'll see what else comes out.

[StevieandChris]

Actually no one knows yet if he did anything that merits being fired. Just because they fired him doesn't mean he was deserving of it, that's what the lawsuit is about.

All we know for sure is she didn't want to work with him enough to give an ultimatum and that Mick and the rest chose sides with a heavy influence on making money. We'll see what else comes out.

Well, enough for them to think they had a reason, and enough that their various managers/lawyers whomever didn’t stop them from doing so.

[dreamsunwind]

Well, enough for them to think they had a reason, and enough that their various managers/lawyers whomever didn’t stop them from doing so.

They weren't stopped because Stevie put that ultimatum out there and Stevie puts butts in seats. The managers only care about the money, ESPECIALLY Irv Azoff. That man got The Eagles to tour even after Glenn Frey DIED. He doesn't care about whatever spats anyone had, he cares about his wallet. So if Stevie made it clear she wasn't budging, of course they went through with it because they're not gonna lose the money that gets lost with Stevie.

[bombaysaffires]

Well, enough for them to think they had a reason, and enough that their various managers/lawyers whomever didn’t stop them from doing so.

I think they expected him to go quietly and toe the company line as has always been done in the past.

[singertobe]

I'm just waiting for a conspiracy theorist to come out and say "The illuminati fired Lindsey cuz he was gonna expose them on the tour! REGVDHNGXF!!!"

[SteveMacD]

1. She was gone for a long time and just came back in the last few years (as in, her income in the last 16 years was what, residuals and investments?)
She sold her publishing for a small fortune. It was a once in a lifetime deal that she’d have been crazy not to make, retired or not.


2. She was with Fleetwood/McVie through, what, technically 5 of the various members who left over the years before Buckingham and Nicks, and was with them through another bunch of revolving members? If her feelings aren't given the same weight as Mick Fleetwood's then perhaps she's as "toxic" as he is and people believe Nicks to be. This "rhythm section" (she's referred to herself as that) has appeared to chew up and spit out guitar players, before and after Nicks.
Peter and Danny were severely mentally ill, Jeremy was spiritually conflicted, Weston was having a fling with Mick’s wife, and Billy and Dave were fired after Mick started working with Lindsey again. Welch, Lindsey, and Rick may have gotten burned out, but they all eventually worked with the Brits again.


there are too many old FM songs in the setlist for this decision to be entirely Stevie Nicks' doing.
Mick released a coffee table book about the early years last year, and they’re releasing a career retrospective in November. It’s not all Stevie, but she’s certainly been a cheerleader for it.

As for Christine, her lack of involvement in the decision seems to be universally accepted. However, she decided to stay with the band, which makes her part of the lawsuit.

[tsitopen]

She sold her publishing for a small fortune. It was a once in a lifetime deal that she’d have been crazy not to make, retired or not.


Never heard that before. Interesting. Is this common knowledge?

[SteveMacD]

Never heard that before. Interesting. Is this common knowledge?

Yes.

http://fleetwoodmac-uk.com/wp/the-mojo-interview-christine-mcvie/


It was a total severing of the ties. You sold all your publishing and moved to a 16th century manor house in Kent.

I did sell my publishing, but I made a lot of money from that. That was a deal I’d never get again.

[cbBen]

I thought the Bob Welch incident stunk, but this one was cold to the bone.

What is the Bob Welch incident?

[Tango]

What is the Bob Welch incident?

Probably others could sum this better, but you can read the words from Bob Welch himself. Bob, at one point, sued Fleetwood Mac (long story). Fleetwood Mac kept him out of the Rock & Roll Hall of fame. There are two LONG Q&As with Bob along with posts here on The Ledge. This will start you:

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/fwm/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=109&Itemid=126

[TheWildHeart67]

I think the way Bob Welch
was treated was beyond foul. Not letting him in the HOF

[jwd]

I think the way Bob Welch
was treated was beyond foul. Not letting him in the HOF

And anyone thinking Christine is sweet and innocent is naive. Lindsey's firing just makes her look as cold and calculating as Wendy portrayed her to be. I guess I was one of those people too, but I'm beginning to see the light.

[HomerMcvie]

And anyone thinking Christine is sweet and innocent is naive. Lindsey's firing just makes her look as cold and calculating as Wendy portrayed her to be. I guess I was one of those people too, but I'm beginning to see the light.

I agree with this. And Chris was ALWAYS my favorite. She's done nothing to prove her worth as a human being, at least that we've seen.

I never dreamed I'd write those words.

[jwd]

I agree with this. And Chris was ALWAYS my favorite. She's done nothing to prove her worth as a human being, at least that we've seen.

I never dreamed I'd write those words.

If you think about it though, anyone who would **** around with Dennis Wilson, in the shape he was in at that time, had to have some issues. Don't you think?

[HomerMcvie]

If you think about it though, anyone who would **** around with Dennis Wilson, in the shape he was in at that time, had to have some issues. Don't you think?

I figured she was just enjoying her new found millions, and whoring around.

But you're right. That's not a decision any kind of adult would make, being with a lunatic like him.

NONE of them ever appeared to be good at making decent life decisions. Lindsey(now, not then) is probably the most sane of them all.

[jwd]

I figured she was just enjoying her new found millions, and whoring around.

But you're right. That's not a decision any kind of adult would make, being with a lunatic like him.

NONE of them ever appeared to be good at making decent life decisions. Lindsey(now, not then) is probably the most sane of them all.


Chris was always a sucker for good looking MEN. I still remember how she fumbled presenting with Bob Seger at an awards show. I just knew it was Bob making her nervous. :laugh:

I've lost track of all of Dick's love affairs/marriages!

[HomerMcvie]

Chris was always a sucker for good looking MEN. I still remember how she fumbled presenting with Bob Seger at an awards show. I just knew it was Bob making her nervous. :laugh:

I've lost track of all of Dick's love affairs/marriages!

Makes me wonder which band member has the highest.... tally? I'd guess $tevie, then Chris, then Dick?

I never thought of Lindsey or John as being whores.

[jwd]

Makes me wonder which band member has the highest.... tally? I'd guess $tevie, then Chris, then Dick?

I never thought of Lindsey or John as being whores.


Dick has to be the biggest WHORE of them all! I'm surprised you ranked them that way! Are you ok tonight?! :laugh:

[HomerMcvie]

Dick has to be the biggest WHORE of them all! I'm surprised you ranked them that way! Are you ok tonight?! :laugh:

But Dick is FUGLY! At least Christine and $tevie were beautiful. Who'd want to sleep with Dick? Nasty ho's.

[jwd]

But Dick is FUGLY! At least Christine and $tevie were beautiful. Who'd want to sleep with Dick? Nasty ho's.

Are you calling Stevie and Sara nasty hos?!

[HomerMcvie]

Are you calling Stevie and Sara nasty hos?!

Well, sometimes people are guilty by default.:D

[Lola]

I agree with this. And Chris was ALWAYS my favorite. She's done nothing to prove her worth as a human being, at least that we've seen.

I never dreamed I'd write those words.

Chris is the puzzle piece for me. Did she sign a contract and couldn't get out of it? Maybe she figured Lindsey would "understand" somehow? She's known Mick forever and probably feels closer to him than anyone else. I don't know. She's always been the no nonsense one to me. If Mick, Stevie and John agreed to fire Lindsey then informed Chris later wasn't she pissed off that they kind of decided for her? I read somewhere that she left or was ticked off for a week then came around. I wish I knew more about her role in this. Could be that I know what her role is and just don't understand it. Lindsey made her promise not to leave again so I guess she's keeping her promise....

She looked so uncomfortable in that CBS interview. I don't get it.

[jmn3]

But Dick is FUGLY! At least Christine and $tevie were beautiful. Who'd want to sleep with Dick? Nasty ho's.

I always figured dude had to be...uhhh....well endowed in order to be as popular with the ladies as he is whilst having the look he does. Those old pics of him...agggghhh he looks greasy as hell

[DownOnRodeo]

I always figured dude had to be...uhhh....well endowed in order to be as popular with the ladies as he is whilst having the look he does. Those old pics of him...agggghhh he looks greasy as hell

He's the Great Dark Wing. Just height itself can be very potent.

[wondergirl9847]

I think Stevie uses Mick. Oh, I am sure she cares for him and did back then too, but I believe he shielded her from "The Big, Bad Wolf" after their break-up. She ran to Mick to protect her and be on her side.

In her own words....nothing ever changes.

[louielouie2000]

I think Stevie uses Mick. Oh, I am sure she cares for him and did back then too, but I believe he shielded her from "The Big, Bad Wolf" after their break-up. She ran to Mick to protect her and be on her side.

In her own words....nothing ever changes.

Mind blown... that’s something I never considered. Especially since Mick was the head of the band and it’s manager at that point. Shrewd move indeed, especially considering a few years earlier how the band only wanted Lindsey, and Stevie became a member only upon Lindsey’s request. He could have easily shoved her out in ‘76-‘77.

Regarding John & Lindsey not being as “amorous” as Mick & Stevie, didn’t the famous groupie Sweet Connie claim to have bedded them both? If they planted their poles in her, I’m thinking they weren’t exactly puritans. They were probably just more discreet about their conquests.

[HomerMcvie]

Regarding John & Lindsey not being as “amorous” as Mick & Stevie, didn’t the famous groupie Sweet Connie claim to have bedded them both? If they planted their poles in her, I’m thinking they weren’t exactly puritans. They were probably just more discreet about their conquests.

Well, Lindsey spent MUCH of his time in the studio, while let's face it, John was probably too drunk to do it, or even care, for many years.

There's really only one member that we know has a LOOOONNNNGGGGGG list. $tevie. $he must use synthetic oil in that thing...:p

[HomerMcvie]

Chris is the puzzle piece for me. Did she sign a contract and couldn't get out of it? Maybe she figured Lindsey would "understand" somehow? She's known Mick forever and probably feels closer to him than anyone else. I don't know. She's always been the no nonsense one to me. If Mick, Stevie and John agreed to fire Lindsey then informed Chris later wasn't she pissed off that they kind of decided for her? I read somewhere that she left or was ticked off for a week then came around. I wish I knew more about her role in this. Could be that I know what her role is and just don't understand it. Lindsey made her promise not to leave again so I guess she's keeping her promise....

She looked so uncomfortable in that CBS interview. I don't get it.

After witnessing the (apparent) bond between Chris and Lindsey on BuckVie, her FAILURE to do anything about his firing is the puzzle piece that made zero sense. Didn't Lindsey say she's "fragile" now? I would equate that to "old age is catching up with her".... I dunno.

[sue]

After witnessing the (apparent) bond between Chris and Lindsey on BuckVie, her FAILURE to do anything about his firing is the puzzle piece that made zero sense. Didn't Lindsey say she's "fragile" now? I would equate that to "old age is catching up with her".... I dunno.

I think Christine just likes being in the band..
She missed performing in Fleetwood Mac she’d been away for 16 years..and didn’t want that again.
She missed her British chums, Stevie and Lindsey also.

But John, Mick and Christine go back a long way, maybe and it is maybe, that’s why she chose to remain.
Plus the deed was done, tho she should have contacted Lindsey to at least explain herself and her position.

[BigAl84]

I think the bigger question will be and the answer will be more clear at the end of the tour - Does Christine like being in Stevie's band? Because that's what it has turned into. There's a difference.

[HomerMcvie]

I think the bigger question will be and the answer will be more clear at the end of the tour - Does Christine like being in Stevie's band? Because that's what it has turned into. There's a difference.

I think she's so old now(and in fragile voice), that she's just happy to be out there.

Much like Lindsey carried BuckVie, I don't think she's capable of being "the star" these days.

And I wouldn't hold my breath for a BuckVie II. Not even because of what happened with his firing, but more so, her age and diminishing capacity.

[michelej1]

You refuse someone’s phone call? SMH.

The anger and depression does not wear off or lessen.

[dreamsunwind]

I think Stevie uses Mick. Oh, I am sure she cares for him and did back then too, but I believe he shielded her from "The Big, Bad Wolf" after their break-up. She ran to Mick to protect her and be on her side.

In her own words....nothing ever changes.

She pretty much said that herself:
"He was just like a great dark wing, within the wings of a storm"

[lovethemac1]

You refuse someone’s phone call? SMH.

The anger and depression does not wear off or lessen.

I agree, how could someone think that was ok??..........unless they were told by a legal team.

When I read this comment about the anger and depression, it suddenly hit me, what a horrible place Lindsey must have been in. It made my heart ache to think of what his heart had been feeling. No wonder Kristen commented on him being so blindsided and hurt.

But the Chris stance is just so weird. So wrong, doesn't matter what she thinks is the reasoning behind that behaviour.

[dreamsunwind]

Regarding John & Lindsey not being as “amorous” as Mick & Stevie, didn’t the famous groupie Sweet Connie claim to have bedded them both? If they planted their poles in her, I’m thinking they weren’t exactly puritans. They were probably just more discreet about their conquests.

Yes she did. I watched that groupie documentary. However she said she only 'ran the home run', so to speak, with Mick. And according to her, he had a "chemical dependency" issue. John and Lindsey she just... serviced. John in a dressing room on tour and Lindsey at the Village Recorder during Tusk, which she was apparently flown out for.

[lovethemac1]

Yes she did. I watched that groupie documentary. However she said she only 'ran the home run', so to speak, with Mick. And according to her, he had a "chemical dependency" issue. John and Lindsey she just... serviced. John in a dressing room on tour and Lindsey at the Village Recorder during Tusk, which she was apparently flown out for.

I agree about the Mick thing, I read she said that she spent a weekend at Mick's house, and they drank beer and did coke all weekend. Among other activities.

I wonder who he was married to at the time that this went on? Or if he was even married?

[dreamsunwind]

I agree about the Mick thing, I read she said that she spent a weekend at Mick's house, and they drank beer and did coke all weekend. Among other activities.

I wonder who he was married to at the time that this went on? Or if he was even married?

If it was all around the same time then I think it was either when he was 'married' to Jenny but they weren't really together or while he was 'with' Stevie.

[Neal]

Yes she did. I watched that groupie documentary. However she said she only 'ran the home run', so to speak, with Mick. And according to her, he had a "chemical dependency" issue. John and Lindsey she just... serviced. John in a dressing room on tour and Lindsey at the Village Recorder during Tusk, which she was apparently flown out for.

And you he did that just to piss off Stevie! :mad: :p

[Neal]

I agree about the Mick thing, I read she said that she spent a weekend at Mick's house, and they drank beer and did coke all weekend. Among other activities.

I wonder who he was married to at the time that this went on? Or if he was even married?

Has Mick ever *not* been married? :confused:

Seems like the ink never dries on the divorce papers before he's signing his next marriage certificate...

[HomerMcvie]

Has Mick ever *not* been married? :confused:

Seems like the ink never dries on the divorce papers before he's signing his next marriage certificate...

I think Dick is very needy. Just like he can't let FM die, I think he also needs someone around him all the time. Maybe he's afraid to be alone?

[cbBen]

Let's assume for a moment that Lindsey is correct - that Stevie said she wouldn't stay in the band if Lindsey were there. Do you think there might be reasons for her to feel that way? Do you think Lindsey had any role in her feeling that way? Or do you really believe that Stevie simply make an ultimatum with no legitimate reasons? It seems awfully unlikely that she would push to remove the musical leader of the band putting the entire future of the band in jeopardy unless she had some legitimate reasons. Most interpersonal conflicts involve blame on both sides and almost never have one-sided blame. Food for thought.

Of course she had reasons, or at least one reason. I would love to see a video of Lindsey's outburst over the walkout music at Musicares. If he really flew off the handle in a particularly nasty way, it might explain a lot.

[michelej1]

I agree, how could someone think that was ok??..........unless they were told by a legal team.

When I read this comment about the anger and depression, it suddenly hit me, what a horrible place Lindsey must have been in. It made my heart ache to think of what his heart had been feeling. No wonder Kristen commented on him being so blindsided and hurt.



I cannot pretend that the heart ache falls away.

But let’s say he went psycho about Rhiannon. He may have. He is not the, “oh my goodness. I did not know there would be walk out music. Bless you,” type.

He may have pitched a fit. It is no reason to fire him. New Year’s Eve 1974. After everything that has happened and all of his contributions, the only reason I see firing him is if they discovered he took a hit out on the four of them.

[dreamsunwind]

Of course she had reasons, or at least one reason. I would love to see a video of Lindsey's outburst over the walkout music at Musicares. If he really flew off the handle in a particularly nasty way, it might explain a lot.

Lol, this is Stevie Nicks. When people make posts like these and the original, I genuinely wonder if they really have paid any attention to anything Stevie Nicks has done over the past 50 years. I can 100% believe that she would indeed be that dramatic. This is a woman who bawled her eyes out over the high art that was the Twilight movies and a Katy Perry music video, who has aired out just about every grievance she's ever had, who, even the 2000s thought that her ex-boyfriend of a billion years ago who was now married with children still wasn't over her, who told that same ex-boyfriend that palm trees were gonna fall on his head and later admitted she was mostly just upset because she didn't like the album. She's a very dramatic person with an assistant that does practically everything for her. She lives in a bubble and has admitted it. I can absolutely, 100% believe that she would put out an ultimatum like that for mostly petty reasons.

Seriously, I'll never deny Lindsey being difficult but unless he was literally on the verge of blowing the band to bits, I can't find a legitimate reason to fire someone after so many years of hard work. I can't think of anything crueler.

[lovethemac1]

I cannot pretend that the heart ache falls away.

But let’s say he went psycho about Rhiannon. He may have. He is not the, “oh my goodness. I did not know there would be walk out music. Bless you,” type.

He may have pitched a fit. It is no reason to fire him. New Year’s Eve 1974. After everything that has happened and all of his contributions, the only reason I see firing him is if they discovered he took a hit out on the four of them.

Lol, this is Stevie Nicks. When people make posts like these and the original, I genuinely wonder if they really have paid any attention to anything Stevie Nicks has done over the past 50 years. I can 100% believe that she would indeed be that dramatic. This is a woman who bawled her eyes out over the high art that was the Twilight movies and a Katy Perry music video, who has aired out just about every grievance she's ever had, who, even the 2000s thought that her ex-boyfriend of a billion years ago who was now married with children still wasn't over her, who told that same ex-boyfriend that palm trees were gonna fall on his head and later admitted she was mostly just upset because she didn't like the album. She's a very dramatic person with an assistant that does practically everything for her. She lives in a bubble and has admitted it. I can absolutely, 100% believe that she would put out an ultimatum like that for mostly petty reasons.

Seriously, I'll never deny Lindsey being difficult but unless he was literally on the verge of blowing the band to bits, I can't find a legitimate reason to fire someone after so many years of hard work. I can't think of anything crueler.

Yep, I'd believe it if someone said he pitched a fit of epic proportions. Lindsey has always been difficult. But they all have.
Mick was drunk, stoned, spending money or all over the place.
John had his fair share of drinking issues and being unavailable.
Stevie was all over the map, drunk and stoned, and MIA.
Chris, I'm sure she wasn't a peach all the time.

And I agree, it still didn't warrant what they did to him.

[cbBen]

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/fwm/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=109&Itemid=126

Wow:

"The thing I wish that all the fans would realize about FM, is that everyone, Stevie , Lindsey, Rick Vito, Billy, Bekka, Bob Weston etc are all really nice and fun people, the SOURPUSSES, are, and have always been, in my opinion, Mick, John and Chris, who have tended to act as if they were English 'royalty' and 'Better' than everybody else.

"I'll tell you another little secret that is not known at all except to a few close 'insiders' and me. I met Lindsey once at Chuck's Steak House, (next to the old 'Record Plant' studios) on Melrose in LA after Lindsey had been in the band maybe 6 months, and was in the middle of recording the white album. We had a couple of beers and then he confided in me, "how the hell did you stand it?" he asked me. I knew immediately what he meant...the "emotional atmosphere" created by Mick, John and Chris, all together in the same room could get intolerable at times...

"Any body who EVER was in FM, had to put up with some version of this.

"In the end, Lindsey was actually thinking of leaving FM 6 months after he joined...he didn't know if he could 'take' it...

"...it was not a 'fun group'...."

[cbBen]

Wow:

"The attitude was, at the companies, 'dinosaur' rock is OVER, (this INCLUDED Fleetwood Mac) and the new thing, for the 'kids', was gonna be new wave, epitomized by The Knack, Pat Benatar, Sex Pistols etc.

"This was the EXACT reason that Lindsey did 'Tusk', changed HIS hairstyle, and made FM's music sound rougher and more harsh than it had been on 'Rumours' and the 'White Album'. We were all under the same pressure, from the record companies, and the notoriously trend oriented 'critics', to be 'hip' and to get on board the new thing, or be thought of as laughable old dinos."

[elle]

Lol, this is Stevie Nicks. When people make posts like these and the original, I genuinely wonder if they really have paid any attention to anything Stevie Nicks has done over the past 50 years.I can 100% believe that she would indeed be that dramatic. This is a woman who bawled her eyes out over the high art that was the Twilight movies and a Katy Perry music video, who has aired out just about every grievance she's ever had, who, even the 2000s thought that her ex-boyfriend of a billion years ago who was now married with children still wasn't over her, who told that same ex-boyfriend that palm trees were gonna fall on his head and later admitted she was mostly just upset because she didn't like the album. She's a very dramatic person with an assistant that does practically everything for her. She lives in a bubble and has admitted it. I can absolutely, 100% believe that she would put out an ultimatum like that for mostly petty reasons.
:lol: right? this is Fleetwood Mac. expecting logic and sober reasoning from them makes no sense. why do people expect logic somehow all of the sudden where there never was before?

[cbBen]

Bob Welch on Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame snub:

"The RnR hall of fame thing hurt my feelings, naturally, but I think Mick would've done that even before the lawsuit. Here's why; Mick (and John, and Chris) associate Pete Green with the high flying glory days of their youth, when FM was first breaking out in Europe. They associate Stevie and Lindsey, naturally enough, with the most glamorous, successful and exciting period in FMs' history, when FM became worldwide stars. They associate MY 5 years with the band, in contrast, with a very difficult time emotionally, which it was; losing Pete Green, having to redefine what their music would be, the Davis lawsuit etc. Even though the band survived because of what we went through in that period, it's not pleasant to think about for them,and so they DON'T think about it and pretend it doesn't exist. Of course I'm sure Stevie and Lindsey think all this b.s is pretty irrelevant, which it is, for them. Gee I'm starting to sound like Xavier Pacheco ! ;-) Stevie has always been great to me BTW... My beef with Mick, John, and Chris had absolutely nothing to do with her, or Lindsey."

I confess unfamiliarity with his period in the band, but I do think it would have only led to griping from the other excluded members had they included him.

It makes sense to me that they drew the line at the Rumors and Then Play On/Boston Tea Party lineups.

[Mr Scarrott]

It makes sense to me that they drew the line at the Rumors and Then Play On/Boston Tea Party lineups.

Ooh, that's a brave opinion! I'm not sure you'll get too many here agreeing with you there. The subject's been done to death, anyway. For what it's worth, I would have (probably) just included the eight who got inducted, plus Bob Welch, although excluding Bob Weston pains me a bit. His guitar work was great, but the man himself was rather charmingly nonchalant and British about missing out, if you read his Q & A. I'm not sure that the exclusion of the other six ex-members at the time would worry me that much.

[button-lip]

Of course she had reasons, or at least one reason. I would love to see a video of Lindsey's outburst over the walkout music at Musicares. If he really flew off the handle in a particularly nasty way, it might explain a lot.

Her only reason was Buckingham McVie. The end.

Oh, I’d also love to see so many videos of Stevie’s outbursts towards many members of the band and crew over the years, but unfortunately that’s not gonna happen :lol::lol:

[elle]

Her only reason was Buckingham McVie. The end.

Oh, I’d also love to see so many videos of Stevie’s outbursts towards many members of the band and crew over the years, but unfortunately that’s not gonna happen :lol::lol:

or her outbursts towards the current band members. :nod:

there's a reason Neil and Mike IG posts would never give unsuspected any clues of them actually being either members or contractors with FM. :)

[DownOnRodeo]

"I'll tell you another little secret that is not known at all except to a few close 'insiders' and me. I met Lindsey once at Chuck's Steak House, (next to the old 'Record Plant' studios) on Melrose in LA after Lindsey had been in the band maybe 6 months, and was in the middle of recording the white album. We had a couple of beers and then he confided in me, "how the hell did you stand it?" he asked me. I knew immediately what he meant...the "emotional atmosphere" created by Mick, John and Chris, all together in the same room could get intolerable at times...

"Any body who EVER was in FM, had to put up with some version of this.

"In the end, Lindsey was actually thinking of leaving FM 6 months after he joined...he didn't know if he could 'take' it...

"...it was not a 'fun group'...."

Fascinating quotes. Thank you.
(His Q&A is so long it's hard to remember it all.)

This quote reminded me of the rehearsal interview for The Dance.
The five of them are sitting/standing together next to some equipment boxes and answering questions. (Stevie is sitting on top of one of the boxes in some sort of lotus position..)
John and Christine are off to one side. When the interviewer turns to the topic of 1992 Clinton performance, and Chris says "(The audience) really got into it. Even "old Prez" got up--oh, sorry.. "Mr. President"." Then she and John lean towards one another and chuckle away like a private joke. Stevie and Lindsey are looking on at them like "Hmm.. ." It made me realize what a divide there was between the US and UK contingent. Utterly different backgrounds (and unlike some expatriates, Chris Mick and John all have their same thick accents, as if they never really adapted.) I can see now that they may indeed be in their own little bubble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGBji-8-3jo&t=686s
From about 7:00

[sodascouts]

Fascinating quotes. Thank you.
(His Q&A is so long it's hard to remember it all.)

This quote reminded me of the rehearsal interview for The Dance.
The five of them are sitting/standing together next to some equipment boxes and answering questions. (Stevie is sitting on top of one of the boxes in some sort of lotus position..)
John and Christine are off to one side. When the interviewer turns to the topic of 1992 Clinton performance, and Chris says "(The audience) really got into it. Even "old Prez" got up--oh, sorry.. "Mr. President"." Then she and John lean towards one another and chuckle away like a private joke. Stevie and Lindsey are looking on at them like "Hmm.. ." It made me realize what a divide there was between the US and UK contingent. Utterly different backgrounds (and unlike some expatriates, Chris Mick and John all have their same thick accents, as if they never really adapted.) I can see now that they may indeed be in their own little bubble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGBji-8-3jo&t=686s
From about 7:00


All I can see when I watch that is how close Stevie and Lindsey seem to be.

So freaking sad, to destroy that relationship, after fifty freaking years.

[bombaysaffires]

All I can see when I watch that is how close Stevie and Lindsey seem to be.

So freaking sad, to destroy that relationship, after fifty freaking years.

yes, she's all about how he made her music so beautiful and amazing, and he kisses her on the head basking in her praise.

you'd think a hundred years on they'd've let all that go, but nope.

[bombaysaffires]

I think Stevie uses Mick. Oh, I am sure she cares for him and did back then too, but I believe he shielded her from "The Big, Bad Wolf" after their break-up. She ran to Mick to protect her and be on her side.

In her own words....nothing ever changes.

Indeed.

Stevie does have a tendency to get involved with men who can help her career/do something for her.....LB, Mick, Paul Fishkin, Jimmy, and many others.

Mick was still managing FM when she got involved with him

Curious, isn't it, how the power has shifted over the years-- first Mick had it, then S&L joined, and slowly LB took over the power-- controlling the band's sound and direction, producing, musical director etc.., and then Stevie took it from them both.

[David]

But let’s say he went psycho about Rhiannon. He may have. He is not the, “oh my goodness. I did not know there would be walk out music. Bless you,” type. :laugh::laugh::laugh:
I love you!

It's true that I have no trouble at all believing that LB lost his stuff. He's an edgy artiste and he's quite self-conscious (I think they all are, actually). Firing, though, requires a whole different set of circumstances: first of all, some sort of collusion among other members, and secondly a deed that was either warned off well in advance or shocked the remaining members into unheralded action.

[elle]

Indeed.

Stevie does have a tendency to get involved with men who can help her career/do something for her.....LB, Mick, Paul Fishkin, Jimmy, and many others.

Mick was still managing FM when she got involved with him

Curious, isn't it, how the power has shifted over the years-- first Mick had it, then S&L joined, and slowly LB took over the power-- controlling the band's sound and direction, producing, musical director etc.., and then Stevie took it from them both.

that's what Landslide is about.

re Mick, i think one of Mick's or maybe one of the band techs''s books talks about that. that it was assumed at the time if a couple splits one or the other would leave the band or be pushed out. and none of them wanted to leave. so getting involved with Mick was SN's insurance policy, to make sure LB cannot try to push her out.

[cbBen]

Her only reason was Buckingham McVie. The end.

What makes you think this was such a sore spot for Stevie. Did she ever intimate as much publicly (or otherwise)?

Thanks.

[elle]

What makes you think this was such a sore spot for Stevie. Did she ever intimate as much publicly (or otherwise)?

Thanks.

why would she? did she say publicly or otherwise that she pulled "him or me" on LB?

[HomerMcvie]

What makes you think this was such a sore spot for Stevie. Did she ever intimate as much publicly (or otherwise)?

Thanks.

Because they DARED go on without her. You can't see that? With her ma$$ive ego?

I'll show him! I guess $he did. And RUINED FM.

B****.

[secondhandchain]

Because they DARED go on without her. You can't see that? With her ma$$ive ego?

I'll show him! I guess $he did. And RUINED FM.

B*****.

Yup on the b****

[HomerMcvie]

Yup on the b****

I actually typed another word, then edited it. It's a hot button word for some people. Although it actually is appropriate in her ca$e.:D

[cbBen]

Am I getting this right?:

The going theory is that when Stevie declined to participate in what became Buckingham McVie, she expected them to throw their songs and recordings (and their financial investment) in the trash can? That's what she expected them to do?

Or is the theory that she is upset that they even started recording in the first place without clearing it with her?

I must say that the former theory, at least, makes no sense. As a songwriter, she wouldn't expect them to take their recordings and throw them in the trash can.

[cbBen]

Maybe, despite her absence, there was talk of releasing the album as a Fleetwood Mac album (as in, Mick or Irving Azoff ran the idea by her), and just the notion of such a thing threatened her and caused her to feel her position in the band was being put at risk.

That makes more sense to me.

[HomerMcvie]

Am I getting this right?:

The going theory is that when Stevie declined to participate in what became Buckingham McVie, she expected them to throw their songs and recordings (and their financial investment) in the trash can? That's what she expected them to do?

Or is the theory that she is upset that they even started recording in the first place without clearing it with her?

I must say that the former theory, at least, makes no sense. As a songwriter, she wouldn't expect them to take their recordings and throw them in the trash can.
Whether some of us like it or not, $he(unfortunately) I$ the $tar of FM. It's just the way it played out over the past 43 years. $HE has the clout.

I would guess that $he never dreamed they'd record an album without her. I mean, they WANTED her to contribute, but $he couldn't be bothered. So they finally decided to release it without her. And it did pretty well. Not selling out venues, but it was still a VERY GOOD album(and I'm thankful that I got it as the swan song from them).

As a SONGWRITER? $he writes(WROTE) a few lyrics on paper, and plonked out a couple chords(F and G) on a piano, and very amateurishly so. Song writer...Hippie chick!:lol:

So do you think that $he has no ego, and $he wasn't upset by them putting out an album, without her? I don't believe that for a minute.

[cbBen]

Yes I believe she has an ego, but I don't see where she'd be upset with them for releasing material they already had in the can (and that she was invited to participate in), unless there is more to the story (such as, for example, someone like Mick or Irving Azoff lobbying to release the album under the Fleetwood Mac name).

[HomerMcvie]

Yes I believe she has an ego, but I don't see where she'd be upset with them for releasing material they already had in the can (and that she was invited to participate in), unless there is more to the story (such as, for example, someone like Mick or Irving Azoff lobbying to release the album under the Fleetwood Mac name).

Well, "$he's running the show now", according to her keyboard player. WHEN did that happen, HER being the bo$$? Oh yeah, when $he got Lindsey fired.

Conniving, manipulating goat.

[elle]

when Stevie declined to participate in what became Buckingham McVie, she expected them to throw their songs and recordings (and their financial investment) in the trash can? That's what she expected them to do?

yes. read her interviews from that time. it's not a theory, that's what she said. that they have a recorded album and they want to release it, but she doesn't get why they would. and that she's SURE they WILL NOT release it. it was almost like she was taunting them in those couple of interviews from that time sending them a message - just try it and see what happens!

they did release it. we know what happened.

again - google is your friend. read the interviews from the time. and also, again - why are you expecting Stevie Nicks to go by what YOU think is logical?

[sodascouts]

Yes I believe she has an ego, but I don't see where she'd be upset with them for releasing material they already had in the can (and that she was invited to participate in), unless there is more to the story (such as, for example, someone like Mick or Irving Azoff lobbying to release the album under the Fleetwood Mac name).

It doesn't make sense that she would get angry at them for releasing their work without her after she turned them down, unless she perhaps felt embarrassed by the obvious conclusion everyone drew (despite what was being said by Lindsey and Christine) that this would have been a Fleetwood Mac album if it had not been for Stevie's refusal to participate. Perhaps she felt they should have released it as separate solo albums to avoid that, and especially hated the name, which she would assume was a callback to Buckingham Nicks (and honestly it does seem to hearken back to that).

Still, I'm just speculating. Honestly, I personally don't think the BM album factored into the firing as much as some others here do, but I have absolutely zero to base that opinion upon.

But why listen to me? My feeling is that Stevie wouldn't fire Lindsey over that, but my feelings about Stevie over the past few months have often turned out to be very wrong.

[cbBen]

yes. read her interviews from that time. it's not a theory, that's what she said. that they have a recorded album and they want to release it, but she doesn't get why they would. and that she's SURE they WILL NOT release it. it was almost like she was taunting them in those couple of interviews from that time sending them a message - just try it and see what happens!

they did release it. we know what happened.

again - google is your friend. read the interviews from the time. and also, again - why are you expecting Stevie Nicks to go by what YOU think is logical?

That's what I was looking for. Could someone please just link me to these? I did search for commentary from her to this effect, but couldn't find it.

[TheWildHeart67]

I remember the interview. And her saying she doesn't understand why they're doing it. But I don't remember her saying she doesn't think they will ever release it.
She knew they were going to release the Buckvie album. She was later quoted that she liked the album, after it's release.

[TheWildHeart67]

I don't think the Buckvie album was the reason Stevie got Lindsey kicked out. If that were the case, Christine would be gone too. I think there was a big blowout argument between Stevie and Lindsey. And, of course she has an ego. So does Lindsey. Both massively so.

[HomerMcvie]

I don't think the Buckvie album was the reason Stevie got Lindsey kicked out. If that were the case, Christine would be gone too. I think there was a big blowout argument between Stevie and Lindsey. And, of course she has an ego. So does Lindsey. Both massively so.

Are you being serious? Do you not see the difference in the dynamic between Christine and Lindsey? It's day and night! If you can't see the difference, and what she would want to accomplish, by getting rid of him, then you're blind. Just saying... Christine is old, and currently her shill. $he would accomplish nothing by getting rid of Christine. One singer would be the end of a BAND of three singers. $he needs Christine. Conniving goat.

[Justin Reach]

I think it's all down to the fact that Stevie can't write songs any more and she resents the fact that Lindsey still can. She didn't participate in the BuckVie album because she had nothing to give.

[sue]

It’s all about Love..
How dare he fall out of love with her( eventually )
She’s the only one that’s allowed to do that !!!!

[TheWildHeart67]

---Quote (Originally by HomerMcvie---
Are you being serious? Do you not see the difference in the dynamic between Christine and Lindsey? It's day and night! If you can't see the difference, and what she would want to accomplish, by getting rid of him, then you're blind. Just saying... Christine is old, and currently her shill.

A shill is a fake or a plant, someone who isn’t what they present themselves to be. If you refer to someone as a shill, you mean that they are paid to sell something or to participate in an activity in order to persuade others to buy or participate.
Christine isn't Stevie's "shill," anymore than she was Lindsey's shill in order to help Lindsey in regards to the Buckvie album.
She waltzed with Mick during Stevie's speech. The "smirking" Lindsey did was no worse than the waltz.
I don't think any of them behaved rudely during her speech.
Stevie is old too. All of them are now.
I respectfully disagree. Chris has never been anybody's shill.
Lindsey and Stevie have always fought. They cannot stand each other. Both have pulled nasty things against each over, going all the way back to the 1970's.
Lindsey even said that at one point, it had gotten so bad between them that he began to feel resentment towards Stevie, in regards to helping her with her songs, back in the day. He stated this during an episode of "Behind the music," that aired during "The Dance" era.
Both of them have behaved very poorly towards each other which continues to this very day.
Both should have sucked it up and done one final tour of the "classic" FM lineup.
I think there were many things that led up to this unfortunate situation. We can speculate many things. But I think it goes much deeper than the Buckvie album and a smirking incident at "Music cares."
And regardless of whatever those reasons were, if Stevie felt she could no longer share a stage with Lindsey, the entire band should have simply broken up, instead of carrying on without him.
I don't care about the current tour selling decently enough to be adding new tour dates, and the fact that many reviews in the press have been positive. This is no longer Fleetwood Mac to me.

[jmn3]

I don't think the Buckvie album was the reason Stevie got Lindsey kicked out. If that were the case, Christine would be gone too. I think there was a big blowout argument between Stevie and Lindsey. And, of course she has an ego. So does Lindsey. Both massively so.

No way could she accomplish what she has and have thrown Chris out. Christine's return to Fleetwood Mac is the ONLY way this works. Imagine Fleetwood Mac with Stevie, Neil, and (insert Sheryl Crow, Vanessa Carlton, or whomever Stevie is in love with this year) as the third singer. I'm not saying Mick wouldn't try it out if it could make a buck, but without Christine I don't think this would've ever gotten past that grainy cell phone video performance from Hawaii.

[gldstwmn]

Regarding John & Lindsey not being as “amorous” as Mick & Stevie, didn’t the famous groupie Sweet Connie claim to have bedded them both? If they planted their poles in her, I’m thinking they weren’t exactly puritans. They were probably just more discreet about their conquests.
Connie isn't known so much for banging musicians as she is for something else she does.

[HomerMcvie]

Imo, Christine became a FM company shill when she didn't stand up for her musical partner and friend.


And yes, having Christine back was the ONLY way Lindsey's firing would work.

[vivfox]

I don't care about the current tour selling decently enough to be adding new tour dates, and the fact that many reviews in the press have been positive. This is no longer Fleetwood Mac to me.

I'm curious what makes The Ledge so appealing to you in 2018 now that LB is out of FM?

[TheWildHeart67]

I'm curious what makes The Ledge so appealing to you in 2018 now that LB is out of FM

Fleetwood Mac is my fave band and Stevie Nicks is my favorite singer. I've seen Stevie solo and with FM them 36 times in concert.
I still love Stevie's solo career and always will love FM. I'm just not interested in this current Mac tour.
But just because Lindsey recently left, doesn't mean I will not continue to love the music they created.

[bwboy]

Christine did stand up for her musical partner and friend... it just wasn't the one some people thought it would be.

[HomerMcvie]

Christine did stand up for her musical partner and friend... it just wasn't the one some people thought it would be.

So all the love they showed on stage, and while recording, was just like $tevie and Lindsey holding hands, pretending to still be in love?

Game of Pretend, indeed.

#companyshill

[TheWildHeart67]

So all the love they showed on stage, and while recording, was just like $tevie and Lindsey holding hands, pretending to still be in love?

Game of Pretend, indeed.

So you seriously thought otherwise? I've never been fooled by that.
I don't obsess over their personal lives like most on here do.
I am, and always will be about the music.

[elle]

So all the love they showed on stage, and while recording, was just like $tevie and Lindsey holding hands, pretending to still be in love?

i think they made it pretty clear they are musical soulmates, who instinctively feel each other's music and what to do with it, how to augment it. they play off each other, on stage and in the studio. always have. they both said it, and also that they are not best friends or anything like that. Lindsey called her a family (as he considers the whole band, and he makes it clear still). she said they don't hang out together like best friends but enjoy working together and have an easy pleasant fun work relationship. Christine also said that everyone in Mac gets along well except when you put Stevie and Lindsey in the same room because those 2 still have their weird unresolved issues.

sounds about right.

[SteveMacD]

From what she’s said in interviews over the years, Christine and Lindsey have/had a great musical chemistry, but their relationship was very in the moment. If they weren’t working together, they really didn’t have anything to do with each other. The same isn’t true with her relationships with Mick, John, and Stevie.

[TheWildHeart67]

think they made it pretty clear they are musical soulmates, who instinctively feel each other's music and what to do with it, how to augment it. they play off each other, on stage and in the studio. always have. they both said it, and also that they are not best friends or anything like that. Lindsey called her a family (as he considers the whole band, and he makes it clear still). she said they don't hang out together like best friends but enjoy working together and have an easy pleasant fun work relationship. Christine also said that everyone in Mac gets along well except when you put Stevie and Lindsey in the same room because those 2 still have their weird unresolved issues.


Elle, that was worded perfectly and sensibly.
Fantastic post!

[elle]

Elle, that was worded perfectly and sensibly.
Fantastic post!

thanks - but you know i can't take the credit - all Christine, man! :thumbsup:

would love to get her no-nonsense straightforward take on what exactly happened this year. :nod: but with lawsuit pending i guess we never will.

would also love to know whether there's any truth to those stories about her abruptly leaving the band when she heard what they did to Lindsey, and then being brought back after 10 days away.

[Storms123]

thanks - but you know i can't take the credit - all Christine, man! :thumbsup:

would love to get her no-nonsense straightforward take on what exactly happened this year. :nod: but with lawsuit pending i guess we never will.

would also love to know whether there's any truth to those stories about her abruptly leaving the band when she heard what they did to Lindsey, and then being brought back after 10 days away.

There is so much we will never know! But yes--I would love to know if there's any truth to the Christine angle of the story. Her body language and going a bit rogue on the CBS interview, leads me to think YES.

[cbBen]

Her body language and going a bit rogue on the CBS interview, leads me to think YES.

How did she go a bit rogue?

[Storms123]

How did she go a bit rogue?

The question was asked of the band if the intent was to tour with Lindsey. Mick and Stevie awkwardly hedged themselves and Christine came right out and said yes.

[bombaysaffires]

thanks - but you know i can't take the credit - all Christine, man! :thumbsup:

would love to get her no-nonsense straightforward take on what exactly happened this year. :nod: but with lawsuit pending i guess we never will.

would also love to know whether there's any truth to those stories about her abruptly leaving the band when she heard what they did to Lindsey, and then being brought back after 10 days away.

I had not heard this bit. What I heard was she was already headed back to London after Musicares (for some time off or business or family or whatever personal reason) and was told about Lindsey when she got back to the States. Wasn't she already headed to London when Lindsey was talking to fans in that video the morning after Musicares??

[bwboy]

The question was asked of the band if the intent was to tour with Lindsey. Mick and Stevie awkwardly hedged themselves and Christine came right out and said yes.

I really don't remember Christine saying anything at all during that CBS interview. In fact, some people here commented that her silence must have meant she was forced to be there against her will lol!

[jeets2000]

I really don't remember Christine saying anything at all during that CBS interview. In fact, some people here commented that her silence must have meant she was forced to be there against her will lol!

Not sure if you're being serious or not about not remembering, but in case you are, it was the Rolling Stone interview. Audio available here, question begins at 09:48 or so (for fuller context, you could start at 9:14 where the interviewer starts asking about the 2018 tour): https://player.fm/series/rolling-stone-music-now-170040/a-conversation-with-fleetwood-mac

[elle]

I had not heard this bit. What I heard was she was already headed back to London after Musicares (for some time off or business or family or whatever personal reason) and was told about Lindsey when she got back to the States. Wasn't she already headed to London when Lindsey was talking to fans in that video the morning after Musicares??

those are 2 separate things. yes she was flying to London same time Lindsey was flying back to LA after Musicares.

this other story supposedly happened later, once she found out what they did. not sure when or where. what i wrote above about it is all i saw / read somewhere.

[bwboy]

Not sure if you're being serious or not about not remembering, but in case you are, it was the Rolling Stone interview. Audio available here, question begins at 09:48 or so (for fuller context, you could start at 9:14 where the interviewer starts asking about the 2018 tour): https://player.fm/series/rolling-stone-music-now-170040/a-conversation-with-fleetwood-mac

I was being serious, but now I see why I was confused- the poster I responded to mentioned what Christine said on the CBS This Morning interview, but in that interview she didn't say one word (or at least, nothing she said made it on the air). Apparently, the poster meant to reference the Rolling Stone interview you provided the link for, and not the CBS interview. Anyway, thanks for the link and for helping to clear up my confusion.

[Storms123]

I was being serious, but now I see why I was confused- the poster I responded to mentioned what Christine said on the CBS This Morning interview, but in that interview she didn't say one word (or at least, nothing she said made it on the air). Apparently, the poster meant to reference the Rolling Stone interview you provided the link for, and not the CBS interview. Anyway, thanks for the link and for helping to clear up my confusion.

That's my bad--the 3 interviews (CBS, Rolling Stone, XM Sirius interview on the FM channel )came out so quickly in succession and I must of confused them too.

[cbBen]

I'm just listening to the Rolling Stone interview for the first time: https://player.fm/series/rolling-stone-music-now-170040/a-conversation-with-fleetwood-mac

At the 11:42-mark Stevie says, "We were supposed to go into rehearsal in June, and he wanted to put it off until next November. That's a long time."

It's unclear whether she's using the word "it" to refer to the rehearsal or to the tour. But in any case, despite her use of the word "next," I think she means November 2018 – not November 2019.

Of course, we would later hear that Lindsey was willing to drop his request for any delay at all. But by then, it seems to me, they had already started thinking about kicking him out and his agreement to accommodate their schedule was effectively "too little too late."

[DownOnRodeo]

I'm just listening to the Rolling Stone interview for the first time: https://player.fm/series/rolling-stone-music-now-170040/a-conversation-with-fleetwood-mac

At the 11:42-mark Stevie says, "We were supposed to go into rehearsal in June, and he wanted to put it off until next November. That's a long time."

It's unclear whether "it" refers to the rehearsal or to the tour but in any case, despite her use of the word "next," I think she means November 2018 – not November 2019.

Of course, we would later hear that Lindsey was willing to drop his request for any delay at all. But by then, it seems to me, they had already started thinking about kicking him out and his agreement to accommodate their schedule was effectively "too little too late."

Keep trawling through the resources (including the thread in this forum titled "The Record"). Check out the CBS interview (it's on YouTube). In that one, Stevie declares (something to the effect of) "This team was ready to go. But one of the members didn't want to go out on the road for a year." Maybe she "misspoke" (I think she could sense that the interview was flailing at that point, and tried to wrest the discourse away from Mick, who had otherwise been planned as the bearer of bad news and the one who had made the decision), but it was total BS either way.

[bombaysaffires]

I'm just listening to the Rolling Stone interview for the first time: https://player.fm/series/rolling-stone-music-now-170040/a-conversation-with-fleetwood-mac

At the 11:42-mark Stevie says, "We were supposed to go into rehearsal in June, and he wanted to put it off until next November. That's a long time."

It's unclear whether she's using the word "it" to refer to the rehearsal or to the tour. But in any case, despite her use of the word "next," I think she means November 2018 – not November 2019.

Of course, we would later hear that Lindsey was willing to drop his request for any delay at all. But by then, it seems to me, they had already started thinking about kicking him out and his agreement to accommodate their schedule was effectively "too little too late."

Keep trawling through the resources (including the thread in this forum titled "The Record"). Check out the CBS interview (it's on YouTube). In that one, Stevie declares (something to the effect of) "This team was ready to go. But one of the members didn't want to go out on the road for a year." Maybe she "misspoke" (I think she could sense that the interview was flailing at that point, and tried to wrest the discourse away from Mick, who had otherwise been planned as the bearer of bad news and the one who had made the decision), but it was total BS either way.

I thought the same thing when I heard it-- that she meant he wanted to delay from June to Nov of the same year --2018-- which didn't seem like *such* a big deal.

But then she said the "a year" thing on tv, and all the subsequent print reports in the news picked up on this and said that the band wanted to go tour but Lindsey wanted them to delay for a YEAR-- so the "he wanted to delay things for a whole year" nonsense is all over the internet and news and magazine reports about the personnel change.

The "best" part of the CBS tv interview is her saying, with a totally straight face -- "I'm not the boss in this band" and that she has to basically do what the band decides because that's what it means being in a band. This from a woman who refused to record for the last 15 years with them, and for a while around 2012 refused to tour. You can't make this sh*t up with her. It's delusional. And yet her enablers will still say cr*p like "Oh it's coz she's grieving Tom". :distress::laugh::(

[Storms123]

I thought the same thing when I heard it-- that she meant he wanted to delay from June to Nov of the same year --2018-- which didn't seem like *such* a big deal.

But then she said the "a year" thing on tv, and all the subsequent print reports in the news picked up on this and said that the band wanted to go tour but Lindsey wanted them to delay for a YEAR-- so the "he wanted to delay things for a whole year" nonsense is all over the internet and news and magazine reports about the personnel change.

The "best" part of the CBS tv interview is her saying, with a totally straight face -- "I'm not the boss in this band" and that she has to basically do what the band decides because that's what it means being in a band. This from a woman who refused to record for the last 15 years with them, and for a while around 2012 refused to tour. You can't make this sh*t up with her. It's delusional. And yet her enablers will still say cr*p like "Oh it's coz she's grieving Tom". :distress::laugh::(

The twirling around her living room for the next 10 years was a close second! LOL

[jbrownsjr]

The twirling around her living room for the next 10 years was a close second! LOL

Wonder if it gets hard to twirl when you are so full of s()&(*!

[HomerMcvie]

Wonder if it gets hard to twirl when you are so full of s()&(*!

$he probably sprays the wall while bleating and spinning.

[jbrownsjr]

$he probably sprays the wall while bleating and spinning.

I meant metaphorically. lol

[HomerMcvie]

I meant metaphorically. lol

There's no visual with your scenario. You're welcome. :xoxo:

[Storms123]

Wonder if it gets hard to twirl when you are so full of s()&(*!

The visual of an 80 year old woman spinning around her living rooms with candles burning and her coven of fairy god people waiting about also brings up the notion of a broken hip

[jbrownsjr]

There's no visual with your scenario. You're welcome. :xoxo:

Ha! Says, you!! You don't live in my head. :lol::lol:

[HomerMcvie]

Ha! Says, you!! You don't live in my head. :lol::lol:

Spinning among all those candles could cause a fire. Either her chiffon or gas catching fire. :p:sorry::p

[jbrownsjr]

Spinning among all those candles could cause a fire. Either her chiffon or gas catching fire. :p:sorry::p

GOLD COIN WOMAN!!

[jeets2000]

I thought the same thing when I heard it-- that she meant he wanted to delay from June to Nov of the same year --2018-- which didn't seem like *such* a big deal.

But then she said the "a year" thing on tv, and all the subsequent print reports in the news picked up on this and said that the band wanted to go tour but Lindsey wanted them to delay for a YEAR-- so the "he wanted to delay things for a whole year" nonsense is all over the internet and news and magazine reports about the personnel change.

I may be giving Stevie too much credit here, but I think the mental gymnastics she went through to get to "a year" and believe it (because "Remember, Jerry: It's not a lie, if you believe it.") are as follows:

According to the complaint Lindsey filed in LA Superior Court, there was a band meeting in November 2017 that ended abruptly with Lindsey walking out after they reached an impasse regarding scheduling. According to the complaint, Lindsey ceded to Stevie's schedule demands, but that's neither here nor there with regards to the question at hand. Stevie is starting the clock at November 2017 when she claims Lindsey wanted to wait "a year" to tour (i.e., not until November 2018). That's relatively logical, until you realize that she made that claim during an April 2018 interview and the fact that the band pushed back the start date of the tour to the fall anyway due to the firing of Lindsey and hiring the other two.

Regardless of the "logic" behind it, you are right that the result has been the press taking that claim of Stevie's as fact and republishing it over and over.

[HomerMcvie]

I may be giving Stevie too much credit here, but I think the mental gymnastics she went through to get to "a year" and believe it (because "Remember, Jerry: It's not a lie, if you believe it.")
$tevie lies as much as George Costanza, if not more. I've thought of this quote before, in reference to her. I think $he actually believes the sh*t $he spews.

[cbBen]

Here's what I think happened:

1. In November 2017 Lindsey and the rest of the band reach an impasse as Lindsey requests that they delay their tour to Nov. 2018
2. With Petty having passed away and Mike Campbell now available, Stevie and Mick plan to fire Lindsey, but with Musicares scheduled must wait for the moment
3. Lindsey meanwhile backs off his demand and agrees to tour as originally scheduled, but it's "too little too late" as Stevie and Mick have already planned to fire him (and, after Musicares, do)

Musicares probably wasn't even the final straw. They just needed to wait until it was over before they could make changes.

So in Stevie and Mick's mind the demand to delay the tour was the impetus for the breakup, while in Lindsey's mind that's a lie because he had agreed before his firing to accommodate their preferred tour schedule. (The thing is, however, that without the Musicares event, the band would have probably fired him sooner, before Lindsey backed off his request to delay the tour.)

One thing's for sure: They should never have let him delay his solo album and tour if they knew they were going to fire him regardless.

[David]

Musicares probably wasn't even the final straw. They just needed to wait until it was over before they could make changes.Does anyone know how far in advance a band is told that it's going to win the music award? A month? Three months? A few weeks?

So in Stevie and Mick's mind the demand to delay the tour was the impetus for the breakup, while in Lindsey's mind that's a lie because he had agreed before his firing to accommodate their preferred tour schedule. (The thing is, however, that without the Musicares event, the band would have probably fired him sooner, before Lindsey backed off his request to delay the tour.)

One thing's for sure: They should never have let him delay his solo album and tour if they knew they were going to fire him regardless.Another thing is for sure. The idea that a Buckingham solo tour would ever postpone a Fleetwood Mac tour by anything more than a few months is ridiculous. Even now, as an ex-member, Lindsey isn't touring for more than five or six weeks, right? Five or six weeks is nothing in Fleetwood Mac time.

These claims that Nicks made that his solo tour would keep Fleetwood Mac hanging for six or eight months are asinine.

[jeets2000]

Does anyone know how far in advance a band is told that it's going to win the music award? A month? Three months? A few weeks?

It was announced July 19, 2017: https://www.grammy.com/musicares/news/fleetwood-mac-announced-2018-musicares-person-year

[button-lip]

These claims that Nicks made that his solo tour would keep Fleetwood Mac hanging for six or eight months are asinine.

And YET some people are STILL believing her while voting for her at RRHOF. Because it's easier that way. :)

[SteveMacD]

Here's what I think happened:

1. In November 2017 Lindsey and the rest of the band reach an impasse as Lindsey requests that they delay their tour to Nov. 2018
2. With Petty having passed away and Mike Campbell now available, Stevie and Mick plan to fire Lindsey, but with Musicares scheduled must wait for the moment
I don’t believe Tom’s death and Mike’s subsequent availability was a significant factor in Lindsey getting fired. At most, it may have caused Stevie to have a moment of clarity about wanting to be happy, but there were underlying issues that had nothing to do with Tom. It was pretty clear, at least to me, that there was a battle brewing with this tour last summer, months before Tom’s death, when Mick and Stevie started getting into the deep cuts while Lindsey couldn’t fake enthusiasm for taking a break from LBCM (new music) to play a festival show with Fleetwood Mac (same old, same old). Delayed tour, solo album getting delayed, concurrent tour, not signing on the dotted line...None of us know exactly what happened, but the story line going back to 2013, but even more so last summer, made it clear that things weren’t good in Fleetwood Mac.

It’s unfortunate Mike Campbell became available, but there were other legendary, iconic guitarists available if Tom hadn’t died. They could have easily gotten Jimmy Page. He’s not doing anything major without Led Zeppelin and he’d LOVE to be back on the arena rock circuit. His first phone call would have been to his travel agent to get him on the next flight to Maui and his second phone call would’ve been to Robert Plant to say “blow me.”

One thing's for sure: They should never have let him delay his solo album and tour if they knew they were going to fire him regardless.

I don’t think they had any control over his album getting delayed. IIRC, the original plan was Lindsey’s album was going to be released in early 2018, he was going to do a spring tour, and be back with the Mac for the current tour, but the label decided to delay the album.

[bombaysaffires]

I don’t believe Tom’s death and Mike’s subsequent availability was a significant factor in Lindsey getting fired.

It’s unfortunate Mike Campbell became available, but there were other legendary, iconic guitarists available if Tom hadn’t died. They could have easily gotten Jimmy Page. He’s not doing anything major without Led Zeppelin and he’d LOVE to be back on the arena rock circuit. His first phone call would have been to his travel agent to get him on the next flight to Maui and his second phone call would’ve been to Robert Plant to say “blow me.”
.


I agree Tom's death is not a factor, despite many wanting to make it one.

But....Jimmy Page?? I mean, yeah, I guess if he didn't care what he played and just wanted to get back on a posh tour (reminds me of an interview with Michael Caine talking about various movies he'd done and why he'd done them and he said about certain films "I did it for the money" or "I did it because I wanted to work with a certain director and didn't care that the movie wasn't that good"). (to be clear, I think FM's music is good...duh!) Otherwise, I can't realllllly see Jimmy Page being a support player for a twirling chick -- both onstage and offstage, as she is indeed now effectively running the band and calling the shots.

Also, musically, I just don't see his playing fitting their hits. Sure, the old FM blues stuff, but really, you can imagine him trying to adapt his style to play the required bits on Dreams, Gypsy, Never Going Back Again, Little Lies, etc etc??????? Before anyone freaks, I'm not saying he can't play the songs, but the guitar parts on any FM song are more melodic and integrated into supporting the song, not about showing off scorching solos, and don't have big, driving chords (esp not Stevie's songs, where he'd essentially be playing the same one or two chords throughout).

[SteveMacD]

But....Jimmy Page?? I mean, yeah, I guess if he didn't care what he played and just wanted to get back on a posh tour
He’s kind of in the same boat as Mick and John. Without a singer, he doesn’t really have a job.

Otherwise, I can't realllllly see Jimmy Page being a support player for a twirling chick
Any worse than Robert Plant?

Also, musically, I just don't see his playing fitting their hits. Sure, the old FM blues stuff, but really, you can imagine him trying to adapt his style to play the required bits on Dreams, Gypsy, Never Going Back Again, Little Lies, etc etc??????? Before anyone freaks, I'm not saying he can't play the songs, but the guitar parts on any FM song are more melodic and integrated into supporting the song, not about showing off scorching solos, and don't have big, driving chords (esp not Stevie's songs, where he'd essentially be playing the same one or two chords throughout).
I get what you’re saying. The thing is, Zeppelin had that mystical side as well as the blusier stuff. Stairway, Battle Of Evermore, Babe I’m Gonna Leave You, etc. Plus, the violin bow thing would be cool AF on GDW.

[FuzzyPlum]

I agree Tom's death is not a factor, despite many wanting to make it one.

But....Jimmy Page?? I mean, yeah, I guess if he didn't care what he played and just wanted to get back on a posh tour (reminds me of an interview with Michael Caine talking about various movies he'd done and why he'd done them and he said about certain films "I did it for the money" or "I did it because I wanted to work with a certain director and didn't care that the movie wasn't that good"). (to be clear, I think FM's music is good...duh!) Otherwise, I can't realllllly see Jimmy Page being a support player for a twirling chick -- both onstage and offstage, as she is indeed now effectively running the band and calling the shots.

Also, musically, I just don't see his playing fitting their hits. Sure, the old FM blues stuff, but really, you can imagine him trying to adapt his style to play the required bits on Dreams, Gypsy, Never Going Back Again, Little Lies, etc etc??????? Before anyone freaks, I'm not saying he can't play the songs, but the guitar parts on any FM song are more melodic and integrated into supporting the song, not about showing off scorching solos, and don't have big, driving chords (esp not Stevie's songs, where he'd essentially be playing the same one or two chords throughout).


When I first read that suggestion from SteveMacD I though 'what the ****?'
It was the most ridiculous thing I'd read in....ages.
But you know what....? its actually not that far fetched. I bet Jimmy would do it just to p!ss of Plant. Yes, he's pretty much idle at the moment. He loves touring. He loves the big life. Yes- I bet he probably would have said yes.

As Steve points out; Stevie...see Robert Plant

[bombaysaffires]

He’s kind of in the same boat as Mick and John. Without a singer, he doesn’t really have a job.


Any worse than Robert Plant?


I get what you’re saying. The thing is, Zeppelin had that mystical side as well as the blusier stuff. Stairway, Battle Of Evermore, Babe I’m Gonna Leave You, etc. Plus, the violin bow thing would be cool AF on GDW.

When I first read that suggestion from SteveMacD I though 'what the ****?'
It was the most ridiculous thing I'd read in....ages.
But you know what....? its actually not that far fetched. I bet Jimmy would do it just to p!ss of Plant. Yes, he's pretty much idle at the moment. He loves touring. He loves the big life. Yes- I bet he probably would have said yes.

As Steve points out; Stevie...see Robert Plant



So basically, then, he'd be doing it for all the Michael Caine reasons. :)

Fair enough. I don't know the politics and band dynamics within Zeppelin so will have to defer to you guys on that one. But isn't it funny the sort of predictable relationships across most bands between the lead guitarist and the singer. I watched a recent clip of Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend doing something together live and Pete couldn't help take a swipe at Roger -- something to the effect of how Roger never wrote any of the songs, how he, Pete, did all the work musically. Roger refused to be drawn in and just said, "I still love you anyway, Pete".

Not knowing the inner workings of Led Zeppelin I am only able to try and imagine it musically, and I still see FM as on the whole far more pop than Zeppelin and a weird transition to plug Page into. :shrug:

[AncientQueen]

Google "Jimmy Page and Lori Maddox" and tell me again that adding him to FM would be a good idea. I mean, all the big Rock'n Roll bands had their share of underage Groupies, but Jimmy Page is one of the worst offenders (besides David Bowie, Steven Tyler and (this Rolling Stones bass-player who was so boring that his name escapes me all the time) Bill Wymann). Robert Plant is not available because he is busy with his own projects, he does not sit around waiting for a gig.

[bombaysaffires]

Google "Jimmy Page and Lori Maddox" and tell me again that adding him to FM would be a good idea. I mean, all the big Rock'n Roll bands had their share of underage Groupies, but Jimmy Page is one of the worst offenders (besides David Bowie, Steven Tyler and (this Rolling Stones bass-player who was so boring that his name escapes me all the time) Bill Wymann). Robert Plant is not available because he is busy with his own projects, he does not sit around waiting for a gig.

Equally bad was Ted Nugent.... getting his teenaged girlfriend's mother to sign over her parental rights to him and making him her legal guardian..... :mad:

[FuzzyPlum]

Google "Jimmy Page and Lori Maddox" and tell me again that adding him to FM would be a good idea. I mean, all the big Rock'n Roll bands had their share of underage Groupies, but Jimmy Page is one of the worst offenders (besides David Bowie, Steven Tyler and (this Rolling Stones bass-player who was so boring that his name escapes me all the time) Bill Wymann). Robert Plant is not available because he is busy with his own projects, he does not sit around waiting for a gig.


I for one never said it would be a good idea....and I certainly do not know him or about him well enough to pass judgement on his behaviour with underage groupies. All I personally said is that I think there's a good chance he'd have taken the gig if he'd been offered it. I'm not sure Steve suggested it as a good idea either- again, I just think he said he'd have been available and there's a decent chance he'd have said yes.

Fleetwood Mac are far more 'pop' than Led Zeppelin... but Jimmy Page can turn his hand to anything. And its a job. And it would have been a middle finger to RP.

[SteveMacD]

Google "Jimmy Page and Lori Maddox" and tell me again that adding him to FM would be a good idea.
:rolleyes:

Funny how Lori doesn’t seem to have any regrets.

[dreamsunwind]

I can't even fathom the levels of delusion that are required for someone to genuinely think that Jimmy Page of all people would join Fleetwood Mac in the year 2018.

[FuzzyPlum]

I can't even fathom the levels of delusion that are required for someone to genuinely think that Jimmy Page of all people would join Fleetwood Mac in the year 2018.

Hmmm. What makes you feel this way dreamsunwind?

[bombaysaffires]

:rolleyes:

Funny how Lori doesn’t seem to have any regrets.

actually not true. In the years since she began seeing it differently.

[SteveMacD]

actually not true. In the years since she began seeing it differently.
Just out of curiosity, this is what I found.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/mar/15/i-wouldnt-want-this-for-anybodys-daughter-will-metoo-kill-off-the-rocknroll-groupie

Lori Mattix (sometimes known as Maddox) says she was just 14 when she lost her virginity to David Bowie. Her next lover was Jimmy Page. Now 59, she says she never thought of herself as a groupie, but tells me that the affair with Page was “the most beautiful pure love I thought I could ever feel. I’d only had sex once before in my whole life. I felt like I’d won the lottery.” She juxtaposes it with other experiences “where men have harassed me … it’s a different thing when you allow someone to be with you”.

Mattix was under the age of consent, she says, when Page pursued her. Post-#MeToo, does she see the situation differently? “I think that’s what made me start seeing it from a different perspective because I did read a few [articles], and I thought: ‘****, maybe,’” she says. As for whether Page was in the wrong: “That’s an interesting question. I never thought there was anything wrong with it, but maybe there was. I used to get letters telling me he was a paedophile, but I’d never think of him like that. He never abused me, ever.” Still, Mattix sounds conflicted – rapturous reminiscences (“honestly, I had a great time”) are followed by cautionary notes. “I don’t think underage girls should sleep with guys,” she says. “I wouldn’t want this for anybody’s daughter. My perspective is changing as I get older and more cynical.”
I guess I don’t see the relevance of something that happened 46 years ago. It seems to me that most rockers of that era have done some shady things. Lori certainly never felt victimized and even got back together with Page briefly in the ‘80s. This point is just a red herring.

[SteveMacD]

So basically, then, he'd be doing it for all the Michael Caine reasons. :)

He can close his eyes and take the money with the best of them.

[elle]

He can close his eyes and take the money with the best of them.

that's another guy's prerogative. the guy who's responsible for existence of 75% of all those songs they are playing.

Jimmy Page is an actual bigger name than anyone in FM. him joining (which he would never even consider, planes or arenas notwithstanding) would never sit well with the diva ruling that roost right now. :lol:

[elle]

I guess I don’t see the relevance of something that happened 46 years ago.

:thumbsup: and yet people keep bringing up that stuff over and over and over on these boards.

[AncientQueen]

:rolleyes:
Funny how Lori doesn’t seem to have any regrets.This answer in 2018?
Actually, she does have regrets, and even if not, she was under the age of consent. The story is so disgusting, David Bowie groomed her, took her virginity when she was just 14 and then passed her on to Jimmy Page. They both raped a child. And even if you want to see that as statutory rape, it's still a crime and was back then, too.

[SteveMacD]

Jimmy Page is an actual bigger name than anyone in FM. him joining (which he would never even consider, planes or arenas notwithstanding) would never sit well with the diva ruling that roost right now. :lol:

Except, what else is he doing? Zeppelin isn’t getting back together any time soon. Hell, he was in The Firm with Paul Rodgers, did an album and tour with David Coverdale, and did an album and tour with the Black Crowes. Of course he’d do it. Fleetwood Mac isn’t beneath him.

As for Stevie, it’s not like Page is a singer, so it’s not like he’d steal her spotlight.

[SteveMacD]

:thumbsup: and yet people keep bringing up that stuff over and over and over on these boards.

It’s annoying. I try to stay out of that part of the discussions. I’ve blocked a lot of people -BOTH SIDES- on Facebook because they default to these cheap talking points.

[SteveMacD]

This answer in 2018?
Actually, she does have regrets, and even if not, she was under the age of consent. The story is so disgusting, David Bowie groomed her, took her virginity when she was just 14 and then passed her on to Jimmy Page. They both raped a child. And even if you want to see that as statutory rape, it's still a crime and was back then, too.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, yeah…Look, I couldn’t care less about a groupie from before I was alive who said she didn’t feel like a victim and wouldn’t describe Page as a pedophile. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t absolutely wrong, but I just want to keep discussions to music and the music business. News flash: rockers were a-holes who lived like they were above the law from the gitgo, but especially during the ‘70s.

[DownOnRodeo]

MusiCares was announced July 19, 2017: https://www.grammy.com/musicares/news/fleetwood-mac-announced-2018-musicares-person-year

And the earliest Classic date was July 15, 2017 (although it was announced in March, 2017).

This makes me think that once MusiCares was announced, Lindsey thought he had some bargaining power re the 2018 tour, because he assumed that the band would not break itself up after receiving such a major late-career honor.

Days after MusiCares, Stevie and Mick proceeded as planned.

[bombaysaffires]

:rolleyes:

Yeah, yeah…Look, I couldn’t care less about a groupie from before I was alive who said she didn’t feel like a victim and wouldn’t describe Page as a pedophile. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t absolutely wrong, but I just want to keep discussions to music and the music business. News flash: rockers were a-holes who lived like they were above the law from the gitgo, but especially during the ‘70s.


there's a big difference between saying "I choose not to care about that" which is your right, to saying "It wasn't a big deal" because, basically, "rock stars were a-holes" so that made it ok, and the idea that comments from someone who was taken advantage of if not outright victimized but didn't realize it at the time because she was just a teenager and because it was normalized by the very deviants who were exploiting her justifies anything is nonsense. As an adult woman looking back she did realize it was wrong and said so.

From a male perspective I get that it is more easily dismissible but as a woman who was around during that time period I can tell you the whole system was set up to ignore the exploitation of those young girls.

I get that you don't care, and I agree that this forum should stay focused on FM and their music, but intentional or not your "I don't care" answer smacks of dismissiveness and male privilege and can't go uncommented upon.

[dreamsunwind]

Hmmm. What makes you feel this way dreamsunwind?

He's one of the most famous great, great guitar players of all time. People put him right up at the top with Hendrix and Clapton. From one of the biggest great, great rock bands. Is there a band aside from The Beatles or The Stones that was bigger than Led Zeppelin? There's literally no reason to think he would have any interest in joining Fleetwood Mac and play a bunch of Lindsey Buckingham parts on their greatest hits tour when they're all 70. As much as I love the band, it would be beneath him lol.

[cbBen]

I'm sorry all this talk of Jimmy Page was kicked off by my aside "with Mike Campbell now available."

I realize now that I could have, without mentioning Campbell, left it at "they decided in November 2017 to fire Lindsey but couldn't make any move until after the Musicares event."

Jimmy Page hasn't toured in about 20 years. He has more money than Campbell and Finn put together x20 (at least).

There is no way he would have joined Fleetwood Mac.

Yes, they could have found someone other than Mike Campbell, but there is no way Jimmy Page would have joined.

Mick Taylor, formerly of the Rolling Stones, would perhaps have been a possibility, but Campbell (at least at this stage) is a better player.

[elle]

"they decided in November 2017 to fire Lindsey but couldn't make any move until after the Musicares event."

i think that's very close to truth. if you find some actual proof of this, i'm sure Lindsey could put it to good use in his lawsuit! :thumbsup::angel:

Mick and Stevie were cavorting so much in the fall of 2017 and were seen all over the world together that people started being really curious about the new dynamic in FM when they regroup - with Mick & Stevie at one end and Lindsey & Christine at the other. but Mick & Stevie had something more sinister in mind beyond what anyone expected! :shrug:

[cbBen]

With the exception of the shows with the Black Crowes, Jimmy Page doesn't play other people's music, and even in those shows it was still mainly Zeppelin tunes. No way he would do Fleetwood Mac songs as the main thing, with just a few Zeppelin tunes thrown in.

Not in a million years.

If he ever comes out of his retirement (which is going on 20 years now), it will be with his own music.

[cbBen]

Don Felder (formerly of the Eagles) would also have been a possibility had Mike Campbell not been available (though, on second thought, I doubt they could have worked that out given the bad blood between Felder and Irving Azoff).

I suspect Stevie or Irving Azoff put the feelers out to Mike Campbell in November 2017 as soon as Lindsey walked out of the band meeting where they could not agree on the tour schedule. Something like "If you were to get a call next year about joining, might you be interested?" When Mike said yes, the plan was hatched.

[FuzzyPlum]

He's one of the most famous great, great guitar players of all time. People put him right up at the top with Hendrix and Clapton. From one of the biggest great, great rock bands. Is there a band aside from The Beatles or The Stones that was bigger than Led Zeppelin? There's literally no reason to think he would have any interest in joining Fleetwood Mac and play a bunch of Lindsey Buckingham parts on their greatest hits tour when they're all 70. As much as I love the band, it would be beneath him lol.



...and that was exactly my initial reaction.
Then you realise he's idle not though choice but because he doesn't have a band to play with. More than anything he wants to write/tour/record with Led Zep but Robert Plant isn't interested. He comes across as quite sad to no longer have that in his life. He's tried putting his own band together in recent times but it hasn't come off. Of course he doesn't need the money but I don't think the idea that its 'beneath him' would come into it. He just likes playing live music to big audiences. Not saying he'd definitely have said yes, but I think there's a decent chance.

[cbBen]

He just likes playing live music to big audiences

Yes, but his own music.

[HomerMcvie]

Yes, but his own music.

I agree. Jimmy Page has a status to maintain. An image. A brand. Mike Campbell does as well, but to a MUCH lesser degree. Page is a f*cking ICON. As big as Old Goat Breath... bigger.

[dreamsunwind]

...and that was exactly my initial reaction.
Then you realise he's idle not though choice but because he doesn't have a band to play with. More than anything he wants to write/tour/record with Led Zep but Robert Plant isn't interested. He comes across as quite sad to no longer have that in his life. He's tried putting his own band together in recent times but it hasn't come off. Of course he doesn't need the money but I don't think the idea that its 'beneath him' would come into it. He just likes playing live music to big audiences. Not saying he'd definitely have said yes, but I think there's a decent chance.

I disagree, I don't think there would be any chance. He's Jimmy Page-- if he wants to go out and play he can go out on his own or form his own band or a supergroup or something. But he's not gonna hop onto the (sinking) ship of a band that is nowhere near the status of the group that he's synonymous with. That would be like if Mick and Keith got into some final fight and made it so that the Stones can never tour again so Mick goes and joins The Eagles. It would be bizarre.

[dreamsunwind]

I agree. Jimmy Page has a status to maintain. An image. A brand. Mike Campbell does as well, but you a MUCH lesser degree. Page is a f*cking ICON. As big as Old Goat Breath... bigger.

Oh I'd say he's much, much bigger than Stevie. My foreign grandparents don't have the slightest clue what Fleetwood Mac is or who Stevie Nicks is but they've heard of Led Zeppelin and of Jimmy Page.

[dreamsunwind]

Don Felder (formerly of the Eagles) would also have been a possibility had Mike Campbell not been available (though, on second thought, I doubt they could have worked that out given the bad blood between Felder and Irving Azoff).


I agree, I think that could've actually made sense in theory but it would've never happened because of what happened with Felder and The Eagles.

[cbBen]

Had Mike not agreed to join, or had he not been available, they probably either wouldn't have fired Lindsey or they would have gone with Waddy Wachtel from Stevie's band.

[SteveMacD]

Had Mike not agreed to join, or had he not been available, they probably either wouldn't have fired Lindsey or they would have gone with Waddy Wachtel from Stevie's band.

Nah. Waddy is a sideman. They needed someone with a big enough name to stir some additional buzz. Jeff Beck would have been another great choice, and he was just touring with Paul Rodgers and Ann Wilson this summer.

[cbBen]

They needed someone with a big enough name.

Is Mike really that much of a bigger name than Waddy? Waddy was lead guitarist for Carole King, Linda Ronstadt, and Warren Zevon.

If you are right (and you may well be), then I think they probably don't fire Lindsey without first making sure Mike Campbell is available and on board. Mike is sort of playing it off like he didn't know anything about the opening until Mick called him in March, but I suspect there may have been a call (or some form of communication) in the fall to feel him out and see whether he'd join if asked.

Jeff Beck is interesting. I wonder whether he would have committed beyond a single tour, if at all. The only other big names I can think of are Stephen Stills (CSN broke up at the end of 2015), Roger McGuinn, and Marty Stuart; but they are all on tour through November or December so probably none would have worked out.

[bombaysaffires]

Is Mike really that much of a bigger name than Waddy? Waddy was lead guitarist for Carole King, Linda Ronstadt, and Warren Zevon.

If you are right (and you may well be), then I think they probably don't fire Lindsey without first making sure Mike Campbell is available and on board. Mike is sort of playing it off like he didn't know anything about the opening until Mick called him in March, but I suspect there may have been a call (or some form of communication) in the fall to feel him out and see whether he'd join if asked.

Jeff Beck is interesting. I wonder whether he would have committed beyond a single tour, if at all. The only other big names I can think of are:

Stephen Stills (CSN broke up at the end of 2015), but he's on tour with Judy Collins through November 19; so that probably wouldn't have worked.
Roger McGuinn (probably lacks the chops to do Lindsey's parts)
Marty Stuart (probably too country-inflected)

This has been my feeling from the beginning about Mike. I think Mick wouldn't have just called Mike out of the blue, he would have called Mike first because Stevie suggested him and second because Stevie would have called Mike and felt him out about it, and pitched him on taking it both because it would help FM and because, she would have said to convince him, that it would help him stay busy and help him get over losing Tom. Once she had gotten a sense Mike was open to the idea, she would have gotten Mick onboard and together they got John onboard and then Mick called Mike. And Mike was always curiously careful not to mention Stevie at all when he talked about how he came to join the band... only mentioning the call from Mick, which immediately struck me as odd. I mean, he's been close to Stevie for decades, and the idea she didn't call him to let him know makes zero sense.

As for Stephen Stills, he's notoriously difficult and I cannot see him fitting in at all. :shrug:

[bombaysaffires]

Is Mike really that much of a bigger name than Waddy? Waddy was lead guitarist for Carole King, Linda Ronstadt, and Warren Zevon.

If you are right (and you may well be), then I think they probably don't fire Lindsey without first making sure Mike Campbell is available and on board. Mike is sort of playing it off like he didn't know anything about the opening until Mick called him in March, but I suspect there may have been a call (or some form of communication) in the fall to feel him out and see whether he'd join if asked.

Jeff Beck is interesting. I wonder whether he would have committed beyond a single tour, if at all. The only other big names I can think of are Stephen Stills (CSN broke up at the end of 2015), Roger McGuinn, and Marty Stuart; but they are all on tour through November or December so probably none would have worked out.


Yes, he is. Not just as a player, but as a songwriter. He cowrote so many of the Heartbreakers hits (Running Down a Dream, Refugee, Jammin Me, Here Comes My Girl, and on and on and on)as well as Don Henley hits (Boys of Summer, The Heart of the Matter) and of course Stevie hits (Stop Draggin').

Plus none of these other guys are people that Stevie would have the same relationship with and history of writing with. As she's now running the band, chemistry with Stevie is crucial, and more important, a guitarist who is comfortable being second banana, a role Mike was very familiar and comfortable with.

[cbBen]

Makes sense. I just checked and, in addition to producing her and writing with her, Mike Campbell plays on all eight of Stevie's solo albums (same goes for Waddy, by the way, on all three counts).