Importance of Stevie versus Lindsey

[g. fish]

To the casual fan, Stevie Nicks personifies the band. She is the face of the Fleetwood Mac "brand". Accordingly, she is the one that attracts the casual fan to Fleetwood Mac concerts.

The casual fan comes to see Stevie. But they leave the venue talking about Lindsey Buckingham and his incredible talent and stage presence.

We as hard core fans know that Lindsey is the creative genius behind the band. And yes, his guitar work is absolutely brilliant. But at this stage of the game, his stage presence is probably his most important contribution...especially since creating new material is no longer a priority to the other members.

With all due respect, Stevie and Christine are showing their age. Lindsey props them up with his high level of energy and charisma.

Neil Finn seems like a nice enough guy. And from what I understand, he is brilliant on a creative front. But I don't think he has the stage presence to captivate and energize audiences. It's especially tough taking the reins and sharing a leadership role when you're the new kid on the block.

And I understand that Mike Campbell is a great guitarist. Again, does he energize the audience like Lindsey??? Time will tell. My bet says no.

Mick and company should have learned their lesson in 1987 with the addition of Billy Burnett and Rick Vito. Both were talented in their own right. But even with new material, they never achieved a status beyond karaoke.

My wife and I have seen Fleetwood Mac 11 times. In addition, we've seen solo shows by Lindsey (6x), Stevie (2x) and Buckingham McVie (1x). Combined, that's 20 concerts in all. For me, the final chapter has been written for the band Fleetwood Mac. Sadly, they have squandered their legacy and lost their legitimacy. At this point, with their advancing age, I don't believe there's time to recover the Rumours lineup.

I do, however, look forward to new material and future LB and/or Buckvie shows.

[HomerMcvie]

Very well said. I think you stated how MANY of us feel, here.

It's simply too late in the game for reinvention.

[Sugar Mouse]

To the casual fan, Stevie Nicks personifies the band. She is the face of the Fleetwood Mac "brand". Accordingly, she is the one that attracts the casual fan to Fleetwood Mac concerts.

The casual fan comes to see Stevie. But they leave the venue talking about Lindsey Buckingham and his incredible talent and stage presence.

We as hard core fans know that Lindsey is the creative genius behind the band. And yes, his guitar work is absolutely brilliant. But at this stage of the game, his stage presence is probably his most important contribution...especially since creating new material is no longer a priority to the other members.

With all due respect, Stevie and Christine are showing their age. Lindsey props them up with his high level of energy and charisma.

Neil Finn seems like a nice enough guy. And from what I understand, he is brilliant on a creative front. But I don't think he has the stage presence to captivate and energize audiences. It's especially tough taking the reins and sharing a leadership role when you're the new kid on the block.

And I understand that Mike Campbell is a great guitarist. Again, does he energize the audience like Lindsey??? Time will tell. My bet says no.

Mick and company should have learned their lesson in 1987 with the addition of Billy Burnett and Rick Vito. Both were talented in their own right. But even with new material, they never achieved a status beyond karaoke.

My wife and I have seen Fleetwood Mac 11 times. In addition, we've seen solo shows by Lindsey (6x), Stevie (2x) and Buckingham McVie (1x). Combined, that's 20 concerts in all. For me, the final chapter has been written for the band Fleetwood Mac. Sadly, they have squandered their legacy and lost their legitimacy. At this point, with their advancing age, I don't believe there's time to recover the Rumours lineup.

I do, however, look forward to new material and future LB and/or Buckvie shows.

I agree and I disagree. I agree that Lindsey has been the creative force of Fleetwood Mac since the mid-70's. And I agree that Lindsey has been the main source of energy for the live performances in recent years. And I agree that Neil is, like Lindsey, a creative superstar. Very few musicians can write, produce, and arrange music like Lindsey or Neil. Paul McCartney has famously said that Neil Finn is the best living songwriter.

I disagree that Neil and Mike won't bring at least some of Lindsey's energy. I've seen each of them many times and have always walked about impressed with their energy and charisma. Mike doesn't talk much on stage but is a musical tour de force with that guitar. And Neil is a powerful stage presence as you can see in performances by Crowded House, 7 Worlds Collide, etc. on YouTube. No one is Lindsey Buckingham, but Neil/Mike is about as good a replacement as humanly possible.

[HomerMcvie]

No one is Lindsey Buckingham, but Neil/Mike is about as good a replacement as humanly possible.

But Sugar Mick, it should have never happened. The legacy is ruined. I don't give AF if they replace him with Mick Jagger and Keith Richards.

THEY RUINED THE BAND BY DOING THIS.

[Sugar Mouse]

But Sugar Mick, it should have never happened. The legacy is ruined. I don't give AF if they replace him with Mick Jagger and Keith Richards.

THEY RUINED THE BAND BY DOING THIS.

Perhaps Lindsey should have simply played the tour rather than backing out. He could have done his solo thing next summer. If Lindsey had done that, the band would still be together and all would be good.

[g. fish]

Lindsey was the real deal for Fleetwood Mac. He wrote, produced and performed at a high level. Audiences recognized his authenticity. And they responded to his energy.

This latest incarnation is a cover band. Until they produce new material, Neil and Mike are nothing more than karaoke as it relates to Fleetwood Mac. Perhaps they will bring energy as Sugar Mouse claims, but they are not the real deal.

In 1987, I was so disappointed when I learned that Lindsey had left the band. But he left on his own accord. Giving Fleetwood Mac the benefit of the doubt, I embraced the new lineup with Billy and Rick. And I respect the fact that they tried to write a new chapter with Behind the Mask. But the chemistry wasn't there.

The Rumours lineup, in all its incarnations, has been around since 1975. That's over 40 years to create a legacy. Even if this new band creates new music (contrary to Stevie's assertion that nobody buys new music), they will soon run out of time to establish real legitimacy.

[jbrownsjr]

The thing I remember the most about the BTM tour is how much Christine stepped up. She was leading the chat with the audience. She had a solo. She was full of energy. Stevie was floating around like a drugged out balloon for that tour. Billy and Rick were great for energy because they were super excited to be there.

I'm not sure Christine can do that now? As great as she looks, she cheats on keys so much with Brett there, it's embarrassing. Almost as bad as Stevie singing 2 notes for one song.

But it's Fleetwood Mac. I can't imagine they won't have a blockbuster show.

WE SHALL SEE....

[louielouie2000]

Perhaps Lindsey should have simply played the tour rather than backing out. He could have done his solo thing next summer. If Lindsey had done that, the band would still be together and all would be good.

I strongly suspect if Lindsey would have known he'd be fired, he would have just toured. After all, Stevie has held up the show many times and I'm certain he never would have pushed to get her fired because of it. From the limited info we have on the situation, it seems Lindsey was blindsided by the whole thing. The way the whole situation is being handled just smacks of dirty business.

[g. fish]

You're right. Lindsey thought his was negotiating based on his strong belief in touring behind new music. Then he tried to integrate a solo tour...and they fired him. His wife's "raw deal" comment confirms that he was blindsided.

And don't forget "There's nobody I would rather tour with than Tom Petty". After Tom died, the writing was on the wall. Now she's acting out on her grief.

[Angel75]

I agree and I disagree. I agree that Lindsey has been the creative force of Fleetwood Mac since the mid-70's. And I agree that Lindsey has been the main source of energy for the live performances in recent years. And I agree that Neil is, like Lindsey, a creative superstar. Very few musicians can write, produce, and arrange music like Lindsey or Neil. Paul McCartney has famously said that Neil Finn is the best living songwriter.

I disagree that Neil and Mike won't bring at least some of Lindsey's energy. I've seen each of them many times and have always walked about impressed with their energy and charisma. Mike doesn't talk much on stage but is a musical tour de force with that guitar. And Neil is a powerful stage presence as you can see in performances by Crowded House, 7 Worlds Collide, etc. on YouTube. No one is Lindsey Buckingham, but Neil/Mike is about as good a replacement as humanly possible.

That McCartney quote surprised me....so did a quick Google search. I think you'll find it's FALSE!
Your sources appear to really lack credibility buddy....and this is on your beloved Finn forum!
https://www.frenzforum.com/topic/paul-mccartney-talks-neil-finn

[BlanketMan]

I agree and I disagree. I agree that Lindsey has been the creative force of Fleetwood Mac since the mid-70's. And I agree that Lindsey has been the main source of energy for the live performances in recent years. And I agree that Neil is, like Lindsey, a creative superstar. Very few musicians can write, produce, and arrange music like Lindsey or Neil. Paul McCartney has famously said that Neil Finn is the best living songwriter.

I disagree that Neil and Mike won't bring at least some of Lindsey's energy. I've seen each of them many times and have always walked about impressed with their energy and charisma. Mike doesn't talk much on stage but is a musical tour de force with that guitar. And Neil is a powerful stage presence as you can see in performances by Crowded House, 7 Worlds Collide, etc. on YouTube. No one is Lindsey Buckingham, but Neil/Mike is about as good a replacement as humanly possible.

I've also seen Buckingham and Finn multiple times each, and Finn definitely holds his own as far as stage presence. Neil loves interacting with the audience - he used to do a bit (not sure if he still does) where he asks fans to toss their CDs of their own music on the stage (musicians in the audience knew to bring them along for the potential exposure) and he'd play something. At one solo show, he took my nephew's CD and played it, attempting to play/sing along, and doing a really good job... and giving my nephew one of the biggest thrills of his musical career. Finn turned what could've been a pretty annoying bit into a lot of fun for the crowd through his talent and sheer earnestness. I'm eager to see how he does with FM.

[Sugar Mouse]

That McCartney quote surprised me....so did a quick Google search. I think you'll find it's FALSE!
Your sources appear to really lack credibility buddy....and this is on your beloved Finn forum!
https://www.frenzforum.com/topic/paul-mccartney-talks-neil-finn

I know all about the McCartney quote where he said that Neil Finn is the greatest living songwriter. Paul was asked about it last year and he smiled and sort of denied having said that. Very unclear. More likely he said it and doesn't recall it.

[Angel75]

I agree and I disagree. I agree that Lindsey has been the creative force of Fleetwood Mac since the mid-70's. And I agree that Lindsey has been the main source of energy for the live performances in recent years. And I agree that Neil is, like Lindsey, a creative superstar. Very few musicians can write, produce, and arrange music like Lindsey or Neil. Paul McCartney has famously said that Neil Finn is the best living songwriter.

I disagree that Neil and Mike won't bring at least some of Lindsey's energy. I've seen each of them many times and have always walked about impressed with their energy and charisma. Mike doesn't talk much on stage but is a musical tour de force with that guitar. And Neil is a powerful stage presence as you can see in performances by Crowded House, 7 Worlds Collide, etc. on YouTube. No one is Lindsey Buckingham, but Neil/Mike is about as good a replacement as humanly possible.


I disagree ....I have seen Finn live more than FM/LB. Finn is brilliant, he is comical with plenty of banter and very entertaining. He does not have LBs energy nor does he work the stage and jump all over the place during a solo.
They are totally different and not comparable. I am not saying Finn won't be good but he shows none of LBs stage persona, he has a unique style.

[Sugar Mouse]

I disagree ....I have seen Finn live more than FM/LB. Finn is brilliant, he is comical with plenty of banter and very entertaining. He does not have LBs energy nor does he work the stage and jump all over the place during a solo.
They are totally different and not comparable. I am not saying Finn won't be good but he shows none of LBs stage persona, he has a unique style.

Agree with that. Neil isn't animated on stage. He's very entertaining and a consummate professional but he doesn't jump around a lot.

[FuzzyPlum]

I've also seen Buckingham and Finn multiple times each, and Finn definitely holds his own as far as stage presence. Neil loves interacting with the audience - he used to do a bit (not sure if he still does) where he asks fans to toss their CDs of their own music on the stage (musicians in the audience knew to bring them along for the potential exposure) and he'd play something. At one solo show, he took my nephew's CD and played it, attempting to play/sing along, and doing a really good job... and giving my nephew one of the biggest thrills of his musical career. Finn turned what could've been a pretty annoying bit into a lot of fun for the crowd through his talent and sheer earnestness. I'm eager to see how he does with FM.


Perfect for more intimate shows...but I'm not sure his style is really suited to bring it to larger arena shows. Lindsey's animated stage presence captivates the crowd as you don't need to be close up to see he's a bit mad.

[g. fish]

"Agree with that. Neil isn't animated on stage. He's very entertaining and a consummate professional but he doesn't jump around a lot."

This confirms my point. Stevie and Christine are showing their age (not an insult, just a fact of life). Lindsey's youthful energy props them up. He has been stealing the show since the Dance.

As I said in my original post, the casual fan comes to a Fleetwood Mac concert to see Stevie. And walks away talking about Lindsey.

[Sugar Mouse]

Perfect for more intimate shows...but I'm not sure his style is really suited to bring it to larger arena shows. Lindsey's animated stage presence captivates the crowd as you don't need to be close up to see he's a bit mad.

If you want to see Neil Finn's stage presence, here is two hour concert of Neil performing with another songwriter extraordinaire (Paul Kelly). Neil and Paul go back and forth playing their songs. Amazing show!

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-Aj4fcwL4js" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[FuzzyPlum]

If you want to see Neil Finn's stage presence, here is two hour concert of Neil performing with another songwriter extraordinaire (Paul Kelly). Neil and Paul go back and forth playing their songs. Amazing show!

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-Aj4fcwL4js" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


I'll have a proper watch at some point when I've got a bit more time. Had a very quick flick through and I really cant see anything that jumps out and makes me think- Wow!. I promise you, I really like Neil Finn and his music, but I just cant see him and Mike filling the void.

I don't mean to sound rude...but you have seen Fleetwood Mac shows haven't you? I'm sure you have as you sound very knowledgeable. Its just...its hard to describe how much Lindsey steals the show and nothing I've seen of Neil Finn and Mike Campbell live tell me they'll have the effervescence of Lindsey Buckingham. As I say...great in smaller intimate venues. But for an arena supergroup? Hmmmm

[g. fish]

Nice, laid back sound. Perfect for smaller venues. But the fans will be falling asleep in a large arena. The following quote sums it up...

"Perfect for more intimate shows...but I'm not sure his style is really suited to bring it to larger arena shows. Lindsey's animated stage presence captivates the crowd as you don't need to be close up to see he's a bit mad".

[FuzzyPlum]

Nice, laid back sound. Perfect for smaller venues. But the fans will be falling asleep in a large arena. The following quote sums it up...

"Perfect for more intimate shows...but I'm not sure his style is really suited to bring it to larger arena shows. Lindsey's animated stage presence captivates the crowd as you don't need to be close up to see he's a bit mad".

g. fish
- dude, where have you been for 15 years?

[Angel75]

I know all about the McCartney quote where he said that Neil Finn is the greatest living songwriter. Paul was asked about it last year and he smiled and sort of denied having said that. Very unclear. More likely he said it and doesn't recall it.

Probably not the best and most accurate quote to use whilst proving a point then?? :shrug:

[g. fish]

Thanks for the shout out. Actually, I've been lurking on this board since the Dance. I usually maintain a fairly low profile online. But I became motivated to post my thoughts based on the events of the last three months. As you can see, I'm a bit late with my replies! Thanks again.

[Angel75]

g. fish
- dude, where have you been for 15 years?

Exactly, great to have some insightful and intelligent debate back!

[FuzzyPlum]

Thanks for the shout out. Actually, I've been lurking on this board since the Dance. I usually maintain a fairly low profile online. But I became motivated to post my thoughts based on the events of the last three months. As you can see, I'm a bit late with my replies! Thanks again.

You seem to have a lot of common sense. Good to have your thoughts :thumbsup:

[Sugar Mouse]

I'll have a proper watch at some point when I've got a bit more time. Had a very quick flick through and I really cant see anything that jumps out and makes me think- Wow!. I promise you, I really like Neil Finn and his music, but I just cant see him and Mike filling the void.

I don't mean to sound rude...but you have seen Fleetwood Mac shows haven't you? I'm sure you have as you sound very knowledgeable. Its just...its hard to describe how much Lindsey steals the show and nothing I've seen of Neil Finn and Mike Campbell live tell me they'll have the effervescence of Lindsey Buckingham. As I say...great in smaller intimate venues. But for an arena supergroup? Hmmmm

I don't disagree. They're different. Neil doesn't have Lindsey's passionate energy. However, Lindsey doesn't have Neil's warmth and wit. Neil brings a very high level of warmth and humor to his shows. Neil and Lindsey are both consummate professionals from a music standpoint. It will be different, for sure, but I still expect it to be great. And from a new music standpoint, there are few songwriters alive today as good as Neil.

[SteveMacD]

Lindsey brings a lot of physical energy to the show, but he needs to after all that psychobabble-as-banter.

That said, Neil’s SiriusXM interviews don’t have me too optimistic, but that’s not really the same thing as performing.

[Angel75]

I don't disagree. They're different. Neil doesn't have Lindsey's passionate energy. However, Lindsey doesn't have Neil's warmth and wit. Neil brings a very high level of warmth and humor to his shows. Neil and Lindsey are both consummate professionals from a music standpoint.

FOR ONCE I actually agree with you. You have articulated both their strengths well here and realised they are different.
But Stop trying to shove Finn's talent down forum members throats, it is not helping your case. I hold Finn in the highest regard too but people need to make up their own minds personally. I don't believe FM will ever be great again, with or without Finn. Music is subjective and shouldn't be forced on anyone. You are only enraging those that are still sad and angered by LBs firing....

[g. fish]

I think I could become a fan of Neil Finn. I really like his sound. And he is charismatic. But based on what I've seen, I don't think he (or anyone else) can fill Lindsey's shoes.

Vince Gill has done a great job of imitating Glen Frey. But it's still just karaoke in my mind...even with a known replacement. The only way to achieve legitimacy is to create new music.

As HomerMcvie said...It's simply too late in the game for reinvention.

Maybe if Fleetwood Mac had another 10 or 15 years. But at that point, they will be pushing 85 to 90.

[Sugar Mouse]

FOR ONCE I actually agree with you. You have articulated both their strengths well here and realised they are different.
But Stop trying to shove Finn's talent down forum members throats, it is not helping your case. I hold Finn in the highest regard too but people need to make up their own minds personally. I don't believe FM will ever be great again, with or without Finn. Music is subjective and shouldn't be forced on anyone. You are only enraging those that are still sad and angered by LBs firing....

I'm not trying to force any music on anyone. Just stating my opinions just like all the others do here. Mine standout though because I'm not espousing the "Lindsey as victim" theme and just talking about how brilliant Mike and Neil are. Hey I wish Lindsey would have just backed down and honored his commitment to tour with Fleetwood Mac and did his solo thing next summer. If he had, Fleetwood Mac would still be the "classic five" and Neil would in Auckland finishing his album with his brother Tim.

[FuzzyPlum]

I think I could become a fan of Neil Finn. I really like his sound. And he is charismatic. But based on what I've seen, I don't think he (or anyone else) can fill Lindsey's shoes.

Vince Gill has done a great job of imitating Glen Frey. But it's still just karaoke in my mind...even with a known replacement. The only way to achieve legitimacy is to create new music.

As HomerMcvie said...It's simply too late in the game for reinvention.

Maybe if Fleetwood Mac had another 10 or 15 years. But at that point, they will be pushing 85 to 90.


Yes, to make them a legitimate band they need to record new music....proper new music, i.e. an album, not just one or two songs.
However, if they did that they'd be taking the piss knowing that's what Lindsey had been pushing this band to do for many years.

[Sugar Mouse]

I think I could become a fan of Neil Finn. I really like his sound. And he is charismatic. But based on what I've seen, I don't think he (or anyone else) can fill Lindsey's shoes.

Vince Gill has done a great job of imitating Glen Frey. But it's still just karaoke in my mind...even with a known replacement. The only way to achieve legitimacy is to create new music.

As HomerMcvie said...It's simply too late in the game for reinvention.

Maybe if Fleetwood Mac had another 10 or 15 years. But at that point, they will be pushing 85 to 90.

That's a fair view.

[FuzzyPlum]

I'm not trying to force any music on anyone. Just stating my opinions just like all the others do here. Mine standout though because I'm not espousing the "Lindsey as victim" theme and just talking about how brilliant Mike and Neil are. Hey I wish Lindsey would have just backed down and honored his commitment to tour with Fleetwood Mac and did his solo thing next summer. If he had, Fleetwood Mac would still be the "classic five" and Neil would in Auckland finishing his album with his brother Tim.

My understanding is he did back down. They (she) wasn't interested though.

[Sugar Mouse]

My understanding is he did back down. They (she) wasn't interested though.

We won't know for sure until Lindsey comments. The band is saying that Lindsey wanted to delay the tour for a year and wouldn't back down from that. Hopefully we'll hear both sides of the story at some point. Either way, I wish he would have simply played the tour and then did his solo thing next summer.

[lovethemac1]

We won't know for sure until Lindsey comments. The band is saying that Lindsey wanted to delay the tour for a year and wouldn't back down from that. Hopefully we'll hear both sides of the story at some point. Either way, I wish he would have simply played the tour and then did his solo thing next summer.

YES, we all know your point of view. You state it over and over and over. Yet, with no ability to show us your sources as you always claim we need to show you..........

Also, you never did mention if you have seen any actual Fleetwood Mac live shows................???? (Neil Finn shows don't count)

[bwboy]

FOR ONCE I actually agree with you. You have articulated both their strengths well here and realised they are different.
But Stop trying to shove Finn's talent down forum members throats, it is not helping your case. I hold Finn in the highest regard too but people need to make up their own minds personally. I don't believe FM will ever be great again, with or without Finn. Music is subjective and shouldn't be forced on anyone. You are only enraging those that are still sad and angered by LBs firing....

Angel75, the same thing could be said about you guys who are voicing your complaints about Lindsey being fired. I mean, how would you feel if someone posted "But stop trying to shove your complaints about Lindsey's firing down members throats?" Sugar Mouse has just as much right to post about Neil Finn's talent as you have to post about your anger at Lindsey's firing. I really appreciate the posts and links about both Neil and Mike Campbell, since I'm not familiar with their work.

I'm sorry you're mad at FM for firing Lindsey, but not everyone else is. I'm still a fan, but maybe that will change when I actually see Neil and Mike perform as FM. You said music is subjective and shouldn't be forced on anyone... but it seems like you have already decided to not like the new version of FM. Which is totally your right... just like it's my right to actually give FM a chance. I gave them a chance when Lindsey left, and when Stevie left, and when Christine left, and I'm still going to give them a chance now that Lindsey was fired. But saying people shouldn't post links about Neil or Mike here just seems misguided. You shouldn't think these posts are here to rub salt in your wounds... they're here so we can all learn more about these guys who are now a part of FM.

[lovethemac1]

Angel75, the same thing could be said about you guys who are voicing your complaints about Lindsey being fired. I mean, how would you feel if someone posted "But stop trying to shove your complaints about Lindsey's firing down members throats?" Sugar Mouse has just as much right to post about Neil Finn's talent as you have to post about your anger at Lindsey's firing. I really appreciate the posts and links about both Neil and Mike Campbell, since I'm not familiar with their work.

I'm sorry you're mad at FM for firing Lindsey, but not everyone else is. I'm still a fan, but maybe that will change when I actually see Neil and Mike perform as FM. You said music is subjective and shouldn't be forced on anyone... but it seems like you have already decided to not like the new version of FM. Which is totally your right... just like it's my right to actually give FM a chance. I gave them a chance when Lindsey left, and when Stevie left, and when Christine left, and I'm still going to give them a chance now that Lindsey was fired. But saying people shouldn't post links about Neil or Mike here just seems misguided. You shouldn't think these posts are here to rub salt in your wounds... they're here so we can all learn more about these guys who are now a part of FM.

The difference is that many supporters of Lindsey feel they support the Rumour's lineup of the band, and the fact that it's now defunct has many people sad, disappointed and even angry. We just are and we want to talk about it.
Sugar Mick seems to want to argue with everyone that talks about this, and people are sick of hearing his/her point of view because it's done to annoy. So maybe he/she should just leave alone those who want to discuss it??? And leave alone those that do not share the same point of view on who caused it.

[BlanketMan]

Some thoughtful insight in this thread. This Finn/Campbell experiment could go any of a dozen ways; I'm trying to remain optimistic. I consider myself a Lindsey Buckingham Super-Fan and I hold Neil Finn's work in almost as high regard. So I'm really torn here! But I'm getting over the shock/disappointment and starting to look forward to the new Mac. Not ready to take the plunge and buy tickets just yet, but I will eagerly check out the early setlists and videos. Finn's never disappointed me before, so...

[bwboy]

The difference is that many supporters of Lindsey feel they support the Rumour's lineup of the band, and the fact that it's now defunct has many people sad, disappointed and even angry. We just are and we want to talk about it.
Sugar Mick seems to want to argue with everyone that talks about this, and people are sick of hearing his/her point of view because it's done to annoy. So maybe he/she should just leave alone those who want to discuss it??? And leave alone those that do not share the same point of view on who caused it.

I understand what you're saying. Maybe instead of replying to Sugar Mouse, you could ignore him? That would cut down on the problem. It does take two to argue. If people didn't respond to his posts, it would die. But instead of telling someone to quit posting, how about using the ignore feature? I know people use that feature on me all the time LOL!

I respect your right to vent about Lindsey's firing and have no problem with people doing so, especially on this forum. The name calling got old, but it looks like people are backing down from that, which makes it much more bearable, hopefully on all sides. I mentioned on another thread, when or if I post something about how excited I am to see footage of Mike and Neil performing with FM, that's not meant to rub salt in anyone's wounds. So it's kind of a catch-22, I think.

[Sugar Mouse]

Sugar Mick seems to want to argue with everyone that talks about this, and people are sick of hearing his/her point of view because it's done to annoy

Sorry to tell you that I don't post with the intention of annoying anyone. On the flip side, I find many of the posts on this forum annoying with all the "Lindsey is a victim" stuff and all the expletives. How about you ignore me and I'll ignore you. Or we can try to understand each other's perspectives. Life is short ...

[Angel75]

Angel75, the same thing could be said about you guys who are voicing your complaints about Lindsey being fired. I mean, how would you feel if someone posted "But stop trying to shove your complaints about Lindsey's firing down members throats?" Sugar Mouse has just as much right to post about Neil Finn's talent as you have to post about your anger at Lindsey's firing. I really appreciate the posts and links about both Neil and Mike Campbell, since I'm not familiar with their work.

I'm sorry you're mad at FM for firing Lindsey, but not everyone else is. I'm still a fan, but maybe that will change when I actually see Neil and Mike perform as FM. You said music is subjective and shouldn't be forced on anyone... but it seems like you have already decided to not like the new version of FM. Which is totally your right... just like it's my right to actually give FM a chance. I gave them a chance when Lindsey left, and when Stevie left, and when Christine left, and I'm still going to give them a chance now that Lindsey was fired. But saying people shouldn't post links about Neil or Mike here just seems misguided. You shouldn't think these posts are here to rub salt in your wounds... they're here so we can all learn more about these guys who are now a part of FM.

Fair comments. And I never said I would not go to a live show again (although I am not convinvced now due to the backlash from fans that they will tour outside of the US)....what I did say is that I don't think that they will ever be GREAT again.

[lovethemac1]

Sorry to tell you that I don't post with the intention of annoying anyone. On the flip side, I find many of the posts on this forum annoying with all the "Lindsey is a victim" stuff and all the expletives. How about you ignore me and I'll ignore you. Or we can try to understand each other's perspectives. Life is short ...

Lot's of people have explained that you are annoying them. If you find the Lindsey Victim areas annoying, then avoid them.

[FuzzyPlum]

..

Also, you never did mention if you have seen any actual Fleetwood Mac live shows................???? (Neil Finn shows don't count)

???????????????????

[Sugar Mouse]

Lot's of people have explained that you are annoying them. If you find the Lindsey Victim areas annoying, then avoid them.

Lots of people have said that the "Lindsey as victim" stuff is annoying ... and yes I've seen Fleetwood Mac live many times dating back to the mid-1970's. I saw them on Rumours, Tusk, Mirage, etc. tours.

[Sugar Mouse]

???????????????????

Yes - I've seen Fleetwood Mac live many times since the mid-1970's.

[sodascouts]

what I did say is that I don't think that they will ever be GREAT again.

Yes, and isn't that in itself terribly sad?

So much has been sacrificed.... and for what? A tour that will be over in a few months? Stevie's tenuous "happiness" which will turn into a diva tantrum at the first perceived slight?

Such a terrible, terrible shame.

[Dr.Brown]

This is a forum for fans of the Rumours lineup. I have zero interest in the new Post-Rumours lineup. Yes, I'm upset at how the Rumours lineup was flushed down the sh!tter and don't appreciate people posting here and gushing over the other guys.

I never go into the Pre-Rumours forum making comments and posting videos about Lindsey and Stevie and would understand if fans of the Pre-Rumours lineups would be p!ssed about anyone doing so.

[Macfan4life]

This is not the typical band replacing guitarist situation. C'mon now these guys have one more tour in them. At this point in their career they could not even give us a last album. Its awkward to fire a guitarist and bring in 2 more just for a goodbye tour. C'mon now. You could not suck it up for one last tour. Ok maybe not start until 2019 but it needs to be rushed 6 months so new members are brought in.
All seems rather silly to me. If this was 1987 then you could look forward to new music and tours. It could be a new beginning. Just to hire these guys to fill the shoes of the goodbye tour gets under my skin. Nothing personal against them. Its just foolish. Please don't waste your time with hoping for new music, an album or another tour after this one.
I will eat my show live on camera on a live feed for all of you to see if any of that happens.
Ain't gonna happen.
Its sad but they have turned into a cover band of themselves.

[SteveMacD]

This is a forum for fans of the Rumours lineup. I have zero interest in the new Post-Rumours lineup. Yes, I'm upset at how the Rumours lineup was flushed down the sh!tter and don't appreciate people posting here and gushing over the other guys.

I never go into the Pre-Rumours forum making comments and posting videos about Lindsey and Stevie and would understand if fans of the Pre-Rumours lineups would be p!ssed about anyone doing so.

The mods have already decided that it’s okay to talk about the current lineup on this forum. Sorry.

[Sugar Mouse]

This is a forum for fans of the Rumours lineup. I have zero interest in the new Post-Rumours lineup. Yes, I'm upset at how the Rumours lineup was flushed down the sh!tter and don't appreciate people posting here and gushing over the other guys.

I never go into the Pre-Rumours forum making comments and posting videos about Lindsey and Stevie and would understand if fans of the Pre-Rumours lineups would be p!ssed about anyone doing so.

There is a chance that a Rumours thread could occasionally mention one of the dreaded new members. If that bothers you, feel free to block the folks who post such heinous videos. :)

[SteveMacD]

Its awkward to fire a guitarist and bring in 2 more just for a goodbye tour.

It’s never been referred to as a farewell or goodbye tour.

[Macfan4life]

It’s never been referred to as a farewell or goodbye tour.
You are dreaming :)
The tour will go through 2019-2020. You really think Fleetwood mac is going to tour again 2022 and beyond? The most optimistic person about the band was Lindsey and they fired him. Both Mick and John implied over a year ago... one last time. Of course they cant say that now. That was the entire point I was making. Its laughable. Its a joke. After all the band's been through they could not suck it up for one last tour and go out on top? Christine has limited play now, what about 2022? John just got over cancer. Its a goodbye tour but they cant say that trying to fool everyone.
Dream on silly dreamer.

[sasja]

It’s never been referred to as a farewell or goodbye tour.

I think we all can see it for the sort of tour it will be.

Divided camps may add their interpreted response.

I'll just add that it is a crying, crying shame. But my expectations of some of the characters in that band had been lowered substantially since the late 80's already so I really don't know why I am so shocked to find them where it all ended up.

I just hate waste, and injustice. I'll admit it.

[HomerMcvie]

This is a forum for fans of the Rumours lineup. I have zero interest in the new Post-Rumours lineup. Yes, I'm upset at how the Rumours lineup was flushed down the sh!tter and don't appreciate people posting here and gushing over the other guys.

I never go into the Pre-Rumours forum making comments and posting videos about Lindsey and Stevie and would understand if fans of the Pre-Rumours lineups would be p!ssed about anyone doing so.

Exactly. Whether the powers that be decide that POST Rumours posts go here or in the POST Rumours forum, I really don't give a sh*t. HOWEVER, this IS the RUMOURS forum. That IS Lindsey Buckingham on guitar. NOT Crowded Petty. So Sugar Mick better be able to take the heat, if she wants to keep talking about Crowded Petty.

And honestly, if that stuff was moved to Post Rumours, I'll bet 90% of the arguing would be over.

WE DON'T WANT CROWDED PETTY SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS.

[Storms123]

For me, my disappointment is not about the importance of Stevie versus Lindsey. Collectively, Mick, John, Christine, Lindsey and Stevie were a force to watch. Maybe it was the drama of their past relationships, and maybe it was all fake. Who knows, and I don't really care, but it worked. That's what saddens me most about this current situation. I will hold out beyond all hope they will figure it out and preserve the legacy and history of this lineup and give us one more tour. Who knows, FM in it's current state may go on to do even greater things? My unhappiness at the current situation has nothing to do with the talents of Neil Finn and Mike Campbell and everything to do with all 5 of the Rumours 5. None of them are more important than the other, but collectively, they were AMAZING. That's what I am most sad about.

[sasja]

Exactly. Whether the powers that be decide that POST Rumours posts go here or in the POST Rumours forum, I really don't give a sh*t. HOWEVER, this IS the RUMOURS forum. That IS Lindsey Buckingham on guitar. NOT Crowded Petty. So Sugar Mick better be able to take the heat, if she wants to keep talking about Crowded Petty.

And honestly, if that stuff was moved to Post Rumours, I'll bet 90% of the arguing would be over.

WE DON'T WANT CROWDED PETTY SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS.

Hear, hear. Keep those men away from the firefly-five nostalgia-forum that we have going here. For the love of Pete. Let us lament and reminisce in peace, and go take that new incarnation to the post rumours section. It's common sense, no matter what " .. but, but moderators said.." arguments you try to pitch.

[Dr.Brown]

Hear, hear. Keep those men away from the firefly-five nostalgia-forum that we have going here. For the love of Pete. Let us lament and reminisce in peace, and go take that new incarnation to the post rumours section. It's common sense, no matter what " .. but, but moderators said.." arguments you try to pitch.

Exactly - especially in a thread on the "Importance of Stevie versus Lindsey" within the Rumours forum, the last thing I want to wade through is crap about "Neil". :p

[dreamsunwind]

For me, my disappointment is not about the importance of Stevie versus Lindsey. Collectively, Mick, John, Christine, Lindsey and Stevie were a force to watch. Maybe it was the drama of their past relationships, and maybe it was all fake. Who knows, and I don't really care, but it worked. That's what saddens me most about this current situation. I will hold out beyond all hope they will figure it out and preserve the legacy and history of this lineup and give us one more tour. Who knows, FM in it's current state may go on to do even greater things? My unhappiness at the current situation has nothing to do with the talents of Neil Finn and Mike Campbell and everything to do with all 5 of the Rumours 5. None of them are more important than the other, but collectively, they were AMAZING. That's what I am most sad about.

They had a magic. Really, it's like what KB said in her Instagram post. Lightning struck with that lineup of people. The different personalities, the different tastes, the tensions between them, it really was that golden combination. The stars aligned.

[Angel75]

Yes, and isn't that in itself terribly sad.

Absolutely, it's terribly sad. I feel no less sickened by the whole thing as I did the day it was confirmed and I am wishing for the day where it no longer bothers me but it doesn't feel like it will disappear

[Storms123]

Absolutely, it's terribly sad. I feel no less sickened by the whole thing as I did the day it was confirmed and I am wishing for the day where it no longer bothers me but it doesn't feel like it will disappear

Me too---it hasn't happened yet

[lovethemac1]

Absolutely, it's terribly sad. I feel no less sickened by the whole thing as I did the day it was confirmed and I am wishing for the day where it no longer bothers me but it doesn't feel like it will disappear

I hear you 100%. I feel the disappointment and sadness when thinking about these 5 may never end. And the surprise because of the happiness they used to bring me. All the memories of a lifetime wrapped up into 5 people who made music that was the backdrop to my life......sigh.

[secret love]

To the casual fan, Stevie Nicks personifies the band. She is the face of the Fleetwood Mac "brand". Accordingly, she is the one that attracts the casual fan to Fleetwood Mac concerts.

The casual fan comes to see Stevie. But they leave the venue talking about Lindsey Buckingham and his incredible talent and stage presence.

We as hard core fans know that Lindsey is the creative genius behind the band. And yes, his guitar work is absolutely brilliant. But at this stage of the game, his stage presence is probably his most important contribution...especially since creating new material is no longer a priority to the other members.

With all due respect, Stevie and Christine are showing their age. Lindsey props them up with his high level of energy and charisma.

Neil Finn seems like a nice enough guy. And from what I understand, he is brilliant on a creative front. But I don't think he has the stage presence to captivate and energize audiences. It's especially tough taking the reins and sharing a leadership role when you're the new kid on the block.

And I understand that Mike Campbell is a great guitarist. Again, does he energize the audience like Lindsey??? Time will tell. My bet says no.

Mick and company should have learned their lesson in 1987 with the addition of Billy Burnett and Rick Vito. Both were talented in their own right. But even with new material, they never achieved a status beyond karaoke.

My wife and I have seen Fleetwood Mac 11 times. In addition, we've seen solo shows by Lindsey (6x), Stevie (2x) and Buckingham McVie (1x). Combined, that's 20 concerts in all. For me, the final chapter has been written for the band Fleetwood Mac. Sadly, they have squandered their legacy and lost their legitimacy. At this point, with their advancing age, I don't believe there's time to recover the Rumours lineup.

I do, however, look forward to new material and future LB and/or Buckvie shows.
The title of this thread drew me in because it sounded objective. But all you wanted to do was to find people who agree with your narrow minded viewpoint which is basically "poor Lindsey, Fleetwood Mac is dead" ...not using quotations to quote you but instead to indicate I am paraphrasing.

Fleetwood Mac is not dead. Danny Kirwan is dead, God rest his musical soul. I thought Lindsey had died when I read "Fleetwood Mac guitarist dead at 68" and I counted my lucky stars that a semi-current and potential returning member in Lindsey was still alive. But I have a lot of respect for Kirwan and Welch and Green, don't get me wrong, Then Play On and Mystery to Me rival Rumours in my book.

Anyway, it goes without saying, yes, I admit it: Lindsey was and still could be very important to Fleetwood Mac.
BUT: Fleetwood Mac lives on to sing another day, in another lonely way. Long live Fleetwood Mac!

[sodascouts]

I hear you 100%. I feel the disappointment and sadness when thinking about these 5 may never end. And the surprise because of the happiness they used to bring me. All the memories of a lifetime wrapped up into 5 people who made music that was the backdrop to my life......sigh.

Hear, hear. It's even hard to listen to some of the older music now, both FM and solo. I was listening to Stevie's "Blue Denim" the other day and instead of just enjoying it, all I could think of when Stevie sang lyrics like "I promise you, I'll come back and get you" about Lindsey was that her words rung so very hollow now.

Forget trying to listen to "Without You"!

[Angel75]

Hear, hear. It's even hard to listen to some of the older music now, both FM and solo. I was listening to Stevie's "Blue Denim" the other day and instead of just enjoying it, all I could think of when Stevie sang lyrics like "I promise you, I'll come back and get you" about Lindsey was that her words rung so very hollow now.

Forget trying to listen to "Without You"!

I haven't put on any FM or solo music since...But I can't seem to avoid it....the other day GYOW comes on the car radio and walked out into the first shop to SHN.........F#*k my life

[Dr.Brown]

Hear, hear. It's even hard to listen to some of the older music now, both FM and solo. I was listening to Stevie's "Blue Denim" the other day and instead of just enjoying it, all I could think of when Stevie sang lyrics like "I promise you, I'll come back and get you" about Lindsey was that her words rung so very hollow now.

Forget trying to listen to "Without You"!

I'm with you there. What's happened has really tainted a lot of songs by the Rumours lineup - pretty much any involving interplay between Stevie and Lindsey. I've been listening to a lot of other bands as an alternative and am getting much more enjoyment out of their music. Whether or not their recent performances involved "play-acting", they've now managed to tarnish their legacy - probably irrevocably. :(

[SteveMacD]

I was listening to Stevie's "Blue Denim" the other day


Co-written by Mike, ironically.

Actually, Fleetwood Mac should do “Love Is Dangerous” because Mike should have to do a song Stevie wrote with Rick Vito for a change. It was always the other way around.

[AliP]

Lots of people have said that the "Lindsey as victim" stuff is annoying ... and yes I've seen Fleetwood Mac live many times dating back to the mid-1970's. I saw them on Rumours, Tusk, Mirage, etc. tours.

Sugar Mouse, just curious what were your thoughts on those concerts you saw live? Honestly I don’t read many reviews from anyone who has seen a Rumours show, Tusk, or even Mirage. I’m a relatively younger fan only seeing them for the first time on Say You Will. Would you mind sharing a little bit of your thoughts or experiences from these concerts? I would love to hear about it! (Even if I’m the only one haha)

[Sugar Mouse]

Sugar Mouse, just curious what were your thoughts on those concerts you saw live? Honestly I don’t read many reviews from anyone who has seen a Rumours show, Tusk, or even Mirage. I’m a relatively younger fan only seeing them for the first time on Say You Will. Would you mind sharing a little bit of your thoughts or experiences from these concerts? I would love to hear about it! (Even if I’m the only one haha)

Sure thing. The Mirage concert is the one I remember liking the most (even though I'm not a big fan of the Mirage album) with the Tusk show a close second. So much energy, passion on the Mirage tour. The album had very little passion but the shows were awe inspiring. I remember Lindsey jumping around like crazy and looking like a cross between Joe Strummer and Mick Jones (he was talking a lot about The Clash in those days). I was a huge Clash fan back then so hearing those power chords in Sisters of The Moon is a memory I'll never forget. They basically made Sisters of The Moon sound like Radio Clash and I loved it! To me, they were at or near the top of their game back in 1982 for that Mirage Tour. The Tusk show was also incredible. Lindsey seemed really happy the night we saw them. Perhaps he was happy to get out after a year in the studio. Stevie was a different person back then. She was super animated and intense back then. I was a fan of the band before Lindsey/Stevie so I was used to a more serene bluesy experience and then I see Lindsey and Stevie so passionate on stage. Amazing shows. My memory of the Rumours tour was that I couldn't hear much. So much screaming. Like being at a Beatles concert.

[DownOnRodeo]

I don't know why the Sugar Mouse is called "Sugar Mick".

Our honorable rodent friend is usually spruiking Neil Finn and claims to have inside knowledge of that camp.

Hence I suggest a re-Christening: "Crowded Mouse."

[Sugar Mouse]

I don't know why the Sugar Mouse is called "Sugar Mick".

Our honorable rodent friend is usually spruiking Neil Finn and claims to have inside knowledge of that camp.

Hence I suggest a re-Christening: "Crowded Mouse."

I like Crowded Mouse. Thanks! :)

[MoonSister75]

I don't disagree. They're different. Neil doesn't have Lindsey's passionate energy. However, Lindsey doesn't have Neil's warmth and wit. Neil brings a very high level of warmth and humor to his shows. Neil and Lindsey are both consummate professionals from a music standpoint. It will be different, for sure, but I still expect it to be great. And from a new music standpoint, there are few songwriters alive today as good as Neil.

Interesting that you mention his "warm" character - that's what I'm picking up most from the clips I've seen of him. I'm really interested to see the effect this has on the dynamic of the band.

[bwboy]

Interesting that you mention his "warm" character - that's what I'm picking up most from the clips I've seen of him. I'm really interested to see the effect this has on the dynamic of the band.

One of the things I was surprised to learn from Billy Burnette's autobiography was that the band often jammed in their hotel room after a show- including Christine and Stevie! Clearly, the band dynamic was different with Billy and Rick than it was with Lindsey. I doubt the Rumours band ever jammed for fun after a show. I know some people want FM to fail, but I just don't see it happening. I have a feeling that Christine and especially Stevie are going to really step up to the plate, and Neil and Mike are going to, also.

[aleuzzi]

Getting back to the thread title, I’d say it’s 50/50. Lindsey was the one the band originally wanted because they could hear in his playing something that persists even to this day, a palpable, tense energy and creativity wrapped in a concise and potentially commercial package. We all know what he’s done—and could still do— for the FM sound.

But for all of that (and that is a lot) it’s Stevie's voice and presence that lured people in. I admit it: “Gypsy” put a spell on me, and though it was LB who transformed the song from a mere scrap of a demo into a full and unique orchestration, it was SN whose flash and charisma originally attracted my attention.

Once I was hooked on the band, I quickly assessed the reality: that SN needs LB more musically than he needs her. At the same time, SN’s celebrity (which is now a weapon) is so strong, the band’s continued popularity (as opposed to musical accomplishment) is tied to it.

[gldstwmn]

My memory of the Rumours tour was that I couldn't hear much. So much screaming. Like being at a Beatles concert.

If you watch the video from Japan from the Rumours tour that's exactly what it's like. There are incredible versions of Gold Dust Woman and Landslide and during one song (Rhiannon?) Stevie literally falls to her knees a la James Brown. It was done for Japanese television I think but there are also hours of footage of them from that leg doing everyday things like waiting on a train platform to catch a bullet train. Christine was right, they traveled like a blob and it was a trip to see the whole crew standing there with people dressed for going to work and school or wherever. There also the Lindsey/Carol Ann make out session. The Japanese didn't even bat an eye. It's really a moment in time because we will never see them doing something like that now and after that tour I'm sure they never traveled that publically again.

[gldstwmn]

One of the things I was surprised to learn from Billy Burnette's autobiography was that the band often jammed in their hotel room after a show- including Christine and Stevie! Clearly, the band dynamic was different with Billy and Rick than it was with Lindsey. I doubt the Rumours band ever jammed for fun after a show. I know some people want FM to fail, but I just don't see it happening. I have a feeling that Christine and especially Stevie are going to really step up to the plate, and Neil and Mike are going to, also.

In the Skies the Limit video there a clip of Stevie, Chris, Rick and Billy (I think) standing backstage singing and I always wanted to know what they were singing but the studio track was playing over it. I wish footage from that shoot would show up.

[Dr.Brown]

Getting back to the thread title, I’d say it’s 50/50. Lindsey was the one the band originally wanted because they could hear in his playing something that persists even to this day, a palpable, tense energy and creativity wrapped in a concise and potentially commercial package. We all know what he’s done—and could still do— for the FM sound.

But for all of that (and that is a lot) it’s Stevie's voice and presence that lured people in. I admit it: “Gypsy” put a spell on me, and though it was LB who transformed the song from a mere scrap of a demo into a full and unique orchestration, it was SN whose flash and charisma originally attracted my attention.

Once I was hooked on the band, I quickly assessed the reality: that SN needs LB more musically than he needs her. At the same time, SN’s celebrity (which is now a weapon) is so strong, the band’s continued popularity (as opposed to musical accomplishment) is tied to it.

Stevie's fantasy about her life and her "toxic garden" has now become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm sure that Tom Petty sensed this about her which is why, despite her continual pleas, he refused to let her join his band. Sadly, Fleetwood Mac became ensnared in this double-edged sword that ended up stunting their growth musically, eventually delivering a fatal blow to the band's legacy.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RdjbU1vWdJg?rel=0&amp;controls=0&amp;showinfo=0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[sodascouts]

Sadly, Fleetwood Mac became ensnared in this double-edged sword that ended up stunting their growth musically, eventually delivering a fatal blow to the band's legacy.


So true. It's so staggering to me... Stevie literally refuses to make new music despite "the majority" wanting to do it... and it's allowed. One band member keeping the rest of the band from growing musically is acceptable...

But Lindsey requesting to delay the band's tour is a firing offense (although Stevie has done it without consequence). This is if you buy the band's narrative without question. They have no idea how bad even their own story makes them look.

Contemptible.

Lost perspective indeed.

[Danielle]

If you want to see Neil Finn's stage presence, here is two hour concert of Neil performing with another songwriter extraordinaire (Paul Kelly). Neil and Paul go back and forth playing their songs. Amazing show!

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-Aj4fcwL4js" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Thank you for posting this. I've been so busy lately and haven't had the chance to properly sit down and listen to Neil Finn. I've always liked Paul Kelly, so this show is turning out to be an amazing experience.

[Dr.Brown]

WTF does this video have to do with Stevie, Lindsey, or the Rumours lineup??? :shrug:

[HomerMcvie]

WTF does this video have to do with Stevie, Lindsey, or the Rumours lineup??? :shrug:

AMEN! I'm sick of seeing Crowded F*cking House here!

[sodascouts]

I fear it's a lost cause in terms of the forum. The moderators have made their decision.

While the OCD part of me which likes everything to be categorized and sorted properly is triggered by this illogical decision, there's nothing we can do.

We can at least ask that threads stay on topic, however.

[SteveMacD]

I fear it's a lost cause in terms of the forum. The moderators have made their decision.

While the OCD part of me which likes everything to be categorized and sorted properly is triggered by this illogical decision, there's nothing we can do.

We can at least ask that threads stay on topic, however.

I was also wondering what a Neil Finn video had to do with Stevie vs. Lindsey.

[SteveMacD]

So true. It's so staggering to me... Stevie literally refuses to make new music despite "the majority" wanting to do it... and it's allowed. One band member keeping the rest of the band from growing musically is acceptable...

I agree that she should have been shown the door last year on principle. The reality is that she‘s the major draw, but is also personally close to Mick and Christine. For whatever reason, Lindsey agreed to release the album under a different moniker and stuck to the script, so I feel slightly less sympathetic on this point.

But Lindsey requesting to delay the band's tour is a firing offense (although Stevie has done it without consequence). This is if you buy the band's narrative without question. They have no idea how bad even their own story makes them look.

It’s not really apples and oranges, though. Stevie’s album was released when the band was on hiatus and she decided to extend the tour. I’m not saying I support what happened, especially that whole Rod Stewart thing, but she was supporting that was already out.

Also, there wasn’t the same sense of urgency in 2012 as there is today. Christine was still retired and John hadn’t had cancer.

[BombaySapphire3]

I was also wondering what a Neil Finn video had to do with Stevie vs. Lindsey.

Well maybe he could fill some of the void left by Lindsey . He could even reenact the kicking scene from that infamous long ago Fleetwood Mac show in his native land.

[dreamsunwind]

I agree that she should have been shown the door last year on principle. The reality is that she‘s the major draw, but is also personally close to Mick and Christine.
Also, there wasn’t the same sense of urgency in 2012 as there is today. Christine was still retired and John hadn’t had cancer.

Stevie is closer to Mick for sure and has that over Lindsey but Lindsey just finished an album+tour with Christine and she loved the experience and praised him over and over. So I think that situation changed. Which is why Christine is insisting that she didn't even know they kicked Lindsey out till after the deed was done. Whether the details of that are entirely as they're telling it, I think it says something that she wants to make it known that she had no part in what happened.

And personally I don't think one year would have been a big deal. Since the tour will likely be extensive and have added legs (just like their other tours), they would probably still be on the road at around that time anyways. If they had waited a year and made the tour less extensive (which John indicated he would have preferred), it all could've been fine. But doing that would have made them earn a few less millions, which I doubt Mick would've been happy about.

[sasja]

I see that crowded man is still being pushed around this thread. ( even in quotes)
What ever open mind I might have had towards that man has left a long time ago already. Mouse person, you are now rapidly building up a real, real aversion to ANYTHING finn for me, personally. You are just trying WAY too hard, and ad nauseum. It's a good social skill to recognize the time and place for things.

Please have mercy on us. I am to the point where even his name makes me want to vomit.

[HomerMcvie]

I see that crowded man is still being pushed around this thread. ( even in quotes)
What ever open mind I might have had towards that man has left a long time ago already. Mouse person, you are now rapidly building up a real, real aversion to ANYTHING finn for me, personally. You are just trying WAY too hard, and ad nauseum. It's a good social skill to recognize the time and place for things.

Please have mercy on us. I am to the point where even his name makes me want to vomit.

THANK YOU! May I buy you a cocktail?

[Sugar Mouse]

THANK YOU! May I buy you a cocktail?

Thanks! I'd love a drink. Such fine hospitality here on The Lindsey Ledge.

[jbrownsjr]

In the Skies the Limit video there a clip of Stevie, Chris, Rick and Billy (I think) standing backstage singing and I always wanted to know what they were singing but the studio track was playing over it. I wish footage from that shoot would show up.

I've always wondered what they were singing, too.

[Sugar Mouse]

I see that crowded man is still being pushed around this thread. ( even in quotes)
What ever open mind I might have had towards that man has left a long time ago already. Mouse person, you are now rapidly building up a real, real aversion to ANYTHING finn for me, personally. You are just trying WAY too hard, and ad nauseum. It's a good social skill to recognize the time and place for things.

Please have mercy on us. I am to the point where even his name makes me want to vomit.

It's funny because I'm starting to feel overwhelming nausea every time I hear Lindsey's name ...

[SteveMacD]

I see that crowded man is still being pushed around this thread. ( even in quotes)
What ever open mind I might have had towards that man has left a long time ago already. Mouse person, you are now rapidly building up a real, real aversion to ANYTHING finn for me, personally. You are just trying WAY too hard, and ad nauseum. It's a good social skill to recognize the time and place for things.


Eh, I don’t judge a football team by its cheerleaders, but the rodent has gone on overkill.

[SteveMacD]

It's funny because I'm starting to feel overwhelming nausea every time I hear Lindsey's name ...

Lindsey was a member of the band for 33 of the last 43 years, Neil’s been in the band for three months.

[Sugar Mouse]

Lindsey was a member of the band for 33 of the last 43 years, Neil’s been in the band for three months.

That doesn't quell my nausea ... :laugh:

[HomerMcvie]

Thanks! I'd love a drink. Such fine hospitality here on The Lindsey Ledge.

I would NEVER buy anyone named Mick a drink.

Wish I could say what I'm thinking...:mad::mad:

[SteveMacD]

That doesn't quell my nausea ... :laugh:

If reading about Lindsey Buckingham makes you nauseous, maybe don’t go to the Rumours section of a Fleetwood Mac message board :shrug:

[Angel75]

That doesn't quell my nausea ... :laugh:

From one Finn fan to another... I gave you the heads up to stop shoving him down everyones throats but you ignored me. And you say you are a huge FM fan....really? Clearly you are happier than Finn is in FM and not Lindsey, like its a dream come true.

[HomerMcvie]

From one Finn fan to another... I gave you the heads up to stop shoving him down everyones throats but you ignored me. And you say you are a huge FM fan....really? Clearly you are happier than Finn is in FM and not Lindsey, like its a dream come true.

Mick's not listening, and has an agenda. To annoy TF out of all of us?:mad:

[sodascouts]

If Sugar Mouse wished to spread goodwill towards Mr. Finn amongst Fleetwood Mac fans, he certainly went about it the wrong way.

[Angel75]

Mick's not listening, and has an agenda. To annoy TF out of all of us?:mad:

Annoying is an understatement

[Angel75]

If Sugar Mouse wished to spread goodwill towards Mr. Finn amongst Fleetwood Mac fans, he certainly went about it the wrong way.

I know, right.
Geez no one will ever accept him now and rightly so. If he had an ounce of intelligent l, Mouse would just let Finn and his music do the convincing on its own merit but his strategy has backfired and we all appreciate Lindsey more at Finn's expense. Big mistake Mouse.

[DownOnRodeo]

The Lindsey Ledge.

Oh good, I see you've managed to draw the connection between the naming of this message board and the person who wrote the song to which such name refers.

Please enjoy your stay in our nostalgic little Time Bomb Town.

[Sugar Mouse]

I know, right.
Geez no one will ever accept him now and rightly so. If he had an ounce of intelligent l, Mouse would just let Finn and his music do the convincing on its own merit but his strategy has backfired and we all appreciate Lindsey more at Finn's expense. Big mistake Mouse.

Wow, I'm devastated by the news... not. It's really sad when people lets their hurt feelings control their thoughts.

[HomerMcvie]

Wow, I'm devastated by the news... not. It's really sad when people lets their hurt feelings control their thoughts.

Well at least you're good at making friends. Can you feel the love?

[Street_Dreamer]

Wow, I'm devastated by the news... not. It's really sad when people lets their hurt feelings control their thoughts.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[BombaySapphire3]

Wow, I'm devastated by the news...

And dust from a distant sun will shower over everyone,:]

[Angel75]

And dust from a distant sun will shower over everyone,:]

Hahaha, I see what you did there :thumbsup:

[Angel75]

Wow, I'm devastated by the news... not. It's really sad when people lets their hurt feelings control their thoughts.

But that's where you are wrong. I still love Lindsey and Finn nothing has changed there, I just no longer like Stevie:]

[jbrownsjr]

And dust from a distant sun will shower over everyone,:]

hahahahahaha... I love you people... :xoxo:

[DownOnRodeo]

Do you need a Sugar Ratty?
He could be your friend
And if you needed some YouTube of Neil Finn
Well, he'd post it again, and again!

But when it comes to Lindsey
He'd better leave well alone
Cause I'm with Buckingham
And I've had it with that Old Kiwi
Yes I've had it with that Old Kiwi!

[TrueFaith77]

Do you need a Sugar Ratty?
He could be your friend
And if you needed some YouTube of Neil Finn
Well, he'd post it again, and again!

But when it comes to Lindsey
He'd better leave well alone
Cause I'm with Buckingham
And I've had it with that Old Kiwi
Yes I've had it with that Old Kiwi!

That is literally better than anything Neil Finn has ever written :lol: I can *hear* Christine singing it!!

ETA: I still advocate everyone blocking Mouse House or whatever his name is. I still see the embedded tweets. It's annoying.

[David]

This confirms my point. Stevie and Christine are showing their age (not an insult, just a fact of life). Lindsey's youthful energy props them up. He has been stealing the show since the Dance.
Lindsey's been stealing the show since well before that.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/fleetwood-macs-last-stand-for-now-19801030

It was Buckingham's show at the beginning of the tour, and, if anything, he was more commanding at the end. Dressed in the ten-gallon hat, boots and white V-neck T-shirt of a Beverly Hills cowboy, he was simply spectacular onstage. He dominated the band as completely as any human being could ever dominate drummer Mick Fleetwood and bassist John McVie – one of the most cohesive and potent rhythm sections in rock. Buckingham continually battered at the constraints of arena-level rock, both in the quirky, brave songs from Tusk and in his explosive solos. A classic rock & roll spastic, he released enormous amounts of energy with a series of violent, herky-jerky tics. And when he flailed across the stage in "It's Not That Funny" or "What Makes You Think You're the One," it was not a New Wave affectation (as it occasionally seemed at the beginning of the tour); it was simply the only way he knew to exorcise a few bothersome demons.


https://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/archive/latimes19.htm

Fleetwood Mac's enthusiasm was almost as engaging at the Bowl as its music. Singer-guitarist Lindsey Buckingham's informal attire, a white T-shirt, jeans and a cowboy hat, symbolized the unpretentious nature of the show. Without interfering with the music, Buckingham engaged in playful jams with bassist John McVie and generally moved about with the joy of a kid who had just been handed the keys to a toy store. The jams were also significant because they spotlighted the band's adventurousness. Frequently, groups stick to the album versions of their songs. That's not always bad. After all, those versions helped lure the audience to the concert. Sometimes, however, that practice can make a show stale. Fleetwood Mac stuck close enough to the original arrangements to keep the customers satisfied Sunday, but the band benefited from opening up, especially on a rowdy treatment of Buckingham's "Not That Funny."

[HomerMcvie]

Lindsey's been stealing the show since well before that.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/fleetwood-macs-last-stand-for-now-19801030

It was Buckingham's show at the beginning of the tour, and, if anything, he was more commanding at the end. Dressed in the ten-gallon hat, boots and white V-neck T-shirt of a Beverly Hills cowboy, he was simply spectacular onstage. He dominated the band as completely as any human being could ever dominate drummer Mick Fleetwood and bassist John McVie – one of the most cohesive and potent rhythm sections in rock. Buckingham continually battered at the constraints of arena-level rock, both in the quirky, brave songs from Tusk and in his explosive solos. A classic rock & roll spastic, he released enormous amounts of energy with a series of violent, herky-jerky tics. And when he flailed across the stage in "It's Not That Funny" or "What Makes You Think You're the One," it was not a New Wave affectation (as it occasionally seemed at the beginning of the tour); it was simply the only way he knew to exorcise a few bothersome demons.


https://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/archive/latimes19.htm

Fleetwood Mac's enthusiasm was almost as engaging at the Bowl as its music. Singer-guitarist Lindsey Buckingham's informal attire, a white T-shirt, jeans and a cowboy hat, symbolized the unpretentious nature of the show. Without interfering with the music, Buckingham engaged in playful jams with bassist John McVie and generally moved about with the joy of a kid who had just been handed the keys to a toy store. The jams were also significant because they spotlighted the band's adventurousness. Frequently, groups stick to the album versions of their songs. That's not always bad. After all, those versions helped lure the audience to the concert. Sometimes, however, that practice can make a show stale. Fleetwood Mac stuck close enough to the original arrangements to keep the customers satisfied Sunday, but the band benefited from opening up, especially on a rowdy treatment of Buckingham's "Not That Funny."

Then WHY would they fire him?

WHO would fire him?

I truly believe the jealous old goat was behind it, and Mick was too greedy to deny his queen's(money wagon) demands.

[g. fish]

You're absolutely right, David, Lindsey has been stealing the show since the early days. Great reviews...thanks for sharing.

When I go back and look at Rumours era footage of Stevie, I am impressed with her stage presence too. Her version of Rhiannon on the Midnight Special was legendary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py3w5fttedA

Yes, I know, she shredded her voice with her Janis Joplin like singing.

Today, as we all know, there's little left to Stevie's voice. Plus, she lacks the energy and passion she once had for the music. Sadly, she's a shadow of her former self. Ditto with Christine. She seemed especially frail on the Buchingham McVie tour.

Meanwhile, Lindsey continues to perform like a mad man. He owns the stage.

I cannot imagine the two new guys bringing the same level of energy to the stage. Neil's music seems intelligent and creative. But very little energy. His music fits in nicely in a 2,000 seat concert hall. In due time, that's where FM will be holding their shows.

[g. fish]

Back to my original point...

Stevie draws them in.

Lindsey delivers the goods.

[sasja]

THANK YOU! May I buy you a cocktail?

I'll take that cocktail and raise you one of your choice Homer not David :thumbsup: :xoxo:

[sasja]

Back to my original point...

Stevie draws them in.

Lindsey delivers the goods.


Not for me. The total of five drew me in, then Lindsey made me hang around.

[g. fish]

I'll buy that.

But the casual fan is attracted to SN. Then they find out that the substance to the band is elsewhere. Especially at this late stage in the game.

[bwboy]

Wow, and to think last year at this time people were raving about Chrisine's performances on the Buck/Vie tour... now, turns out she was frail and didn't sound good, while Lindsey stole the show. And during On With the Show, I don't recall ANYONE saying Christine or Stevie were shadows of their former selves, but 2 plus years later, the opinions have changed. Lindsey was THE singular driving force of that tour as well, or so some people say. Meanwhile, Stevie got rave reviews for her tour, but yeah, she's just a shadow of her former self lol.

This upcoming FM tour is going to go just fine. Christine and Stevie still have plenty of life in them, and I have no doubt Mike will fit in just fine. Neil is the unknown component for me, but I'm curious to see how he blends in.

[g. fish]

I did, indeed, go to a BuckVie show. Sadly, Christine's vocals were off the mark. And Lindsey was clearly holding back, careful not to upstage her. Truly, I was sad for Christine...nothing left in the tank for live performances. And I gained a whole lot of respect for Lindsey. He could have gone crazy on stage. But he held back, keeping it a two person thing out of respect for Christine. I have nothing but respect for the two of them. Mick and Stevie...they don't deserve any respect.

[Storms123]

Wow, and to think last year at this time people were raving about Chrisine's performances on the Buck/Vie tour... now, turns out she was frail and didn't sound good, while Lindsey stole the show. And during On With the Show, I don't recall ANYONE saying Christine or Stevie were shadows of their former selves, but 2 plus years later, the opinions have changed. Lindsey was THE singular driving force of that tour as well, or so some people say. Meanwhile, Stevie got rave reviews for her tour, but yeah, she's just a shadow of her former self lol.

This upcoming FM tour is going to go just fine. Christine and Stevie still have plenty of life in them, and I have no doubt Mike will fit in just fine. Neil is the unknown component for me, but I'm curious to see how he blends in.

I am a shadow of my former self and I am a hell of a lot younger than these folks and I don't sing, play guitar or keyboards for a living. I think we can all acknowledge a little wear and tear on them. They've lived hard for a long long time. All of their voices have changed in some way and they can't sing the songs in the keys they were originally arranged in. I do agree though, Christine's voice was a bit weak last year during the 2 Buck McVie shows I saw. That said, loved every minute and both L&C were having an awesome time.
I don't think any one of them is a singular driving force...for me, and I know I am a bit of a broken record as I've said this a few times in other posts....it was collectively the five of them together. There is something so alluring and mesmerizing when they come together. That is what I will miss and why I am most upset

[sodascouts]

it was collectively the five of them together. There is something so alluring and mesmerizing when they come together. That is what I will miss and why I am most upset

Exactly. I would rather see the five of them together than go to any solo shows.

When Buckingham McVie did Fleetwood Mac songs, I couldn't help but imagine how much better they would sound if all five were doing them.... especially "Little Lies." I enjoyed the shows, but it was nothing compared to the enjoyment I get from a Mac show with the Rumours line-up.

Now all that is gone.

[bwboy]

I am a shadow of my former self and I am a hell of a lot younger than these folks and I don't sing, play guitar or keyboards for a living. I think we can all acknowledge a little wear and tear on them. They've lived hard for a long long time. All of their voices have changed in some way and they can't sing the songs in the keys they were originally arranged in. I do agree though, Christine's voice was a bit weak last year during the 2 Buck McVie shows I saw. That said, loved every minute and both L&C were having an awesome time.
I don't think any one of them is a singular driving force...for me, and I know I am a bit of a broken record as I've said this a few times in other posts....it was collectively the five of them together. There is something so alluring and mesmerizing when they come together. That is what I will miss and why I am most upset

A most reasonable post, storms. I agree their voices have changed, etc. And Christine doesn't play keyboards much now, which is unfortunate but like you said, we're all older now and that's not a deal breaker for me. It just seems like some folks are rewriting history based on the recent actions of FM, and that was what I was pointing out. I like LB a lot, even had a crush on him for years starting with Mirage. When he shaved that beard, who could have known such a beautiful man lied beneath LOL! His Tusk look was a little jarring, but by Mirage, whew! And I do agree with you that the five of them together is magical. But I also loved Billy and Rick, too.

[SisterNightroad]

A most reasonable post, storms. I agree their voices have changed, etc. And Christine doesn't play keyboards much now, which is unfortunate but like you said, we're all older now and that's not a deal breaker for me. It just seems like some folks are rewriting history based on the recent actions of FM, and that was what I was pointing out. I like LB a lot, even had a crush on him for years starting with Mirage. When he shaved that beard, who could have known such a beautiful man lied beneath LOL! His Tusk look was a little jarring, but by Mirage, whew! And I do agree with you that the five of them together is magical. But I also loved Billy and Rick, too.
Just for curiosity, how old are you bwboy?

[bwboy]

Just for curiosity, how old are you bwboy?

Gulp! I'm 47. My 2 brothers are 10 and 7 years older than me, so Rumours on vinyl was was exposed to me at a young age. They also had Tusk, but never listened to it lol. Mirage I never knew about, but I became a fan of SN when Rick a Little came out, which led me back to FM. In anticipation of Tango coming out, I saved money from mowing lawns to buy Mirage, FM, and all their solo stuff... basically an album at a time. When Tango was released I was beyond excited, to say the least.

[SisterNightroad]

Gulp! I'm 47. My 2 brothers are 10 and 7 years older than me, so Rumours on vinyl was was exposed to me at a young age. They also had Tusk, but never listened to it lol. Mirage I never knew about, but I became a fan of SN when Rick a Little came out, which led me back to FM. In anticipation of Tango coming out, I saved money from mowing lawns to buy Mirage, FM, and all their solo stuff... basically an album at a time. When Tango was released I was beyond excited, to say the least.
I see, I've always somehow thought you were younger, meaning in a positive way.

[FuzzyPlum]

Gulp! I'm 47. My 2 brothers are 10 and 7 years older than me, so Rumours on vinyl was was exposed to me at a young age. They also had Tusk, but never listened to it lol. Mirage I never knew about, but I became a fan of SN when Rick a Little came out, which led me back to FM. In anticipation of Tango coming out, I saved money from mowing lawns to buy Mirage, FM, and all their solo stuff... basically an album at a time. When Tango was released I was beyond excited, to say the least.

No offence, I thought you were about 15.
Out of interest, can I ask what bwboy means?

[jbrownsjr]

Gulp! I'm 47. My 2 brothers are 10 and 7 years older than me, so Rumours on vinyl was was exposed to me at a young age. They also had Tusk, but never listened to it lol. Mirage I never knew about, but I became a fan of SN when Rick a Little came out, which led me back to FM. In anticipation of Tango coming out, I saved money from mowing lawns to buy Mirage, FM, and all their solo stuff... basically an album at a time. When Tango was released I was beyond excited, to say the least.

I thought you were like 20 years old. :laugh: And I was so proud you had so much FM knowledge for a kid. :D:shrug::p

[David]

Exactly. I would rather see the five of them together than go to any solo shows.There was only one time for me when a solo show was as beautiful as a full-Mac show: Stevie's appearance in Los Angeles in 1983. But that was a whole different atmosphere, like a Disney costume ball. Most of the time, for me, the full-Mac show was the most exciting atmosphere. That Exorcist music (Mike Oldfield) in the minutes preceding the lights-off moment was pit-of-your-stomach energy.

[bwboy]

No offence, I thought you were about 15.
Out of interest, can I ask what bwboy means?

That's ok. Mind if I ask how old you are, and how you became a FM fan?

Bwboy, well, it has a meaning but I might be a little embarrassed to share what it stands for here. Maybe bwBOY subconsciously makes me sound younger, along with the occasional juvenile tone of my posts LOL.

[bwboy]

I thought you were like 20 years old. :laugh: And I was so proud you had so much FM knowledge for a kid. :D:shrug::p

Jbrown, I used to think I had a lot of FM knowledge until I came to the Ledge- wrong! I am amazed at how people can mention quotes and sources, and name names, etc. I thought I was a little obsessive because I could recognize the name Judy Wong, but I still have no idea who she was or how she was connected to FM. This isn't a criticism of anyone. I became a hardcore fan at an interesting or unusual time because FM had been on hiatus from 1982-1987, so it was their individual albums that were getting attention when I was a teen. The anticipation of Tango in the Night was quite something, USA Today covered the release, MTV had FM Day on the weekend leading to the premiere of Big Love, it was awesome! And then the shock when Lindsey left, I was devastated when I read about it in USA Today. His leaving was also a big deal.

Sodascouts, David, and jbrown, I would also love to hear how you guys became FM fans... age optional, of course :]

[sodascouts]

Sodascouts, David, and jbrown, I would also love to hear how you guys became FM fans... age optional, of course :]

Since you asked...

I was a college student when The Dance came out. I didn't pay attention to any news about Fleetwood Mac reuniting. I didn't listen to 70s music. I couldn't have named any songs by Fleetwood Mac at the time - I was familiar with songs like "Gypsy" and "Little Lies" from the radio, but never paid attention to who sang them. I knew Stevie Nicks sang "Talk to Me" but I didn't even know she was in Fleetwood Mac. I loved "Holiday Road" from National Lampoon's but had never heard the name "Lindsey Buckingham" in my life.

All this would change in 1997. As I was driving home one day, the radio played "Landslide" and the DJ talked a bit about Fleetwood Mac and The Dance. I thought it was a pretty song. It moved me. I was intrigued. Then, as an avid VH1 watcher at the time, I saw the "Silver Springs" video and was BLOWN AWAY. I went from intrigued to fascinated. That song so was so intense, so powerful... and what was up with the guitarist and Stevie Nicks?!

I bought The Dance CD and loved it. I played it over and over. I got the Greatest Hits next. I eagerly looked out for the special on VH1 and when they finally showed it, they also played their Behind the Music and HOLY MOLY.... I was just astounded... LOL. This was some kind of band! Then they played that Rumours: Classic Albums program (they were having some kind of "Fleetwood Mac weekend") and I thought that Rumours sounded like an album I needed to have.

I bought Rumours and the White Album. I thought they were incredible. At this point, I was loving every Mac album I'd bought. I was on a budget, so it took time, but I eventually bought Tusk, Mirage, Tango, Stevie's Enchanted box set, Lindsey's CDs... by the summer of 1998, I had everything.

I checked out tour dates... NOPE. I had just missed them. Blast it! Had I missed my only chance? What if they never toured again? Little did I know!

During this time, I was finding out more and more. I having an "inquiring mind" lol. I looked in the library; I scoured the internet. There was this site, and some cool sites that are gone now like The Legacy and the Stevie Nicks Underground. There were also lots of small fansites on free servers. I was really into SnL in particular but didn't see much just on BN - there was just one pretty sparse site with the BN album in realplayer files. At the time, some friends and I were sharing copies of Photoshop and PageMill and experimenting with making websites, and I made a site for BN.

That was 1999. My journey from "Fleetwood Who?" to obsessed megafan with encyclopedic knowledge took about eighteen months!

[bwboy]

Very cool, sodascouts, thanks for sharing. The Dance was obviously a big deal to FM fans but it's incredible to hear how it brought in so many new fans to FM. And even more interesting, it was Silver Springs and Landslide that caught on with the public, not any of the 4 new songs. Of course, SS was a song only hardcore FM fans knew existed before, but even the way Landslide caught on... a song from 1975 being played on the radio in 1996, who would have thought?

Loved hearing how you knew songs like Holiday Road and Talk to Me, without realizing the singers were also members of FM. FM fans are very fortunate to have access to the wealth of material out there, between the band and all the solo albums

[sasja]

That's amazing Nancy, I always thought you had been a fan forever, you always knew so much and so many details too :) That's a compliment btw.
I wasn't asked but want to tell anyway :)

Kate Bush's The Kick Inside came out in '78 and I was a goner over her music, hers and Siouxsie and the Banshees, then I met a boyfriend who was big time into Fleetwood mac. I thought the white album and Rumours was way too tame, dull, really, and we'd always argue our preferences vehemently. We did break up, one of those teenage things, I could not respect him any longer, vilifying Kate and Siouxsie as he did :]
But then Tusk came out. And that was some music I could get behind! I then finally became aware of the background story of the musicians too, and for me, Stevie Nick's best work is on that record, and on Bella Donna. Lindsey hooked me from then on, and I have all his solo records. Mirage I found Meh, again. So it started waning after that. But the Tusk years and that Tusk tour, they were awesome then.

I also still adore Kate Bush to this day.

[KenshiMaster16]

What is most devastating for me, as someone who became a fan in 1997 at the age of 9 and never saw them live until 2004, is that I had to skip the OWTS Tour due to financial limitations so I will now likely never see the 5 of them together live ever. Other than that I've seen the Mac twice and Stevie and Lindsey solo once each.

[Storms123]

Since you asked...

I was a college student when The Dance came out. I didn't pay attention to any news about Fleetwood Mac reuniting. I didn't listen to 70s music. I couldn't have named any songs by Fleetwood Mac at the time - I was familiar with songs like "Gypsy" and "Little Lies" from the radio, but never paid attention to who sang them. I knew Stevie Nicks sang "Talk to Me" but I didn't even know she was in Fleetwood Mac. I loved "Holiday Road" from National Lampoon's but had never heard the name "Lindsey Buckingham" in my life.

All this would change in 1997. As I was driving home one day, the radio played "Landslide" and the DJ talked a bit about Fleetwood Mac and The Dance. I thought it was a pretty song. It moved me. I was intrigued. Then, as an avid VH1 watcher at the time, I saw the "Silver Springs" video and was BLOWN AWAY. I went from intrigued to fascinated. That song so was so intense, so powerful... and what was up with the guitarist and Stevie Nicks?!

I bought The Dance CD and loved it. I played it over and over. I got the Greatest Hits next. I eagerly looked out for the special on VH1 and when they finally showed it, they also played their Behind the Music and HOLY MOLY.... I was just astounded... LOL. This was some kind of band! Then they played that Rumours: Classic Albums program (they were having some kind of "Fleetwood Mac weekend") and I thought that Rumours sounded like an album I needed to have.

I bought Rumours and the White Album. I thought they were incredible. At this point, I was loving every Mac album I'd bought. I was on a budget, so it took time, but I eventually bought Tusk, Mirage, Tango, Stevie's Enchanted box set, Lindsey's CDs... by the summer of 1998, I had everything.

I checked out tour dates... NOPE. I had just missed them. Blast it! Had I missed my only chance? What if they never toured again? Little did I know!

During this time, I was finding out more and more. I having an "inquiring mind" lol. I looked in the library; I scoured the internet. There was this site, and some cool sites that are gone now like The Legacy and the Stevie Nicks Underground. There were also lots of small fansites on free servers. I was really into SnL in particular but didn't see much just on BN - there was just one pretty sparse site with the BN album in realplayer files. At the time, some friends and I were sharing copies of Photoshop and PageMill and experimenting with making websites, and I made a site for BN.

That was 1999. My journey from "Fleetwood Who?" to obsessed megafan with encyclopedic knowledge took about eighteen months!



I love reading stuff like this and learning about how folks became "hooked" Regardless of the drama the band puts forth, we will always have this Thank you all

[dreamsunwind]

Since you asked...

I was a college student when The Dance came out. I didn't pay attention to any news about Fleetwood Mac reuniting. I didn't listen to 70s music. I couldn't have named any songs by Fleetwood Mac at the time - I was familiar with songs like "Gypsy" and "Little Lies" from the radio, but never paid attention to who sang them. I knew Stevie Nicks sang "Talk to Me" but I didn't even know she was in Fleetwood Mac. I loved "Holiday Road" from National Lampoon's but had never heard the name "Lindsey Buckingham" in my life.

All this would change in 1997. As I was driving home one day, the radio played "Landslide" and the DJ talked a bit about Fleetwood Mac and The Dance. I thought it was a pretty song. It moved me. I was intrigued. Then, as an avid VH1 watcher at the time, I saw the "Silver Springs" video and was BLOWN AWAY. I went from intrigued to fascinated. That song so was so intense, so powerful... and what was up with the guitarist and Stevie Nicks?!

I bought The Dance CD and loved it. I played it over and over. I got the Greatest Hits next. I eagerly looked out for the special on VH1 and when they finally showed it, they also played their Behind the Music and HOLY MOLY.... I was just astounded... LOL. This was some kind of band! Then they played that Rumours: Classic Albums program (they were having some kind of "Fleetwood Mac weekend") and I thought that Rumours sounded like an album I needed to have.

I bought Rumours and the White Album. I thought they were incredible. At this point, I was loving every Mac album I'd bought. I was on a budget, so it took time, but I eventually bought Tusk, Mirage, Tango, Stevie's Enchanted box set, Lindsey's CDs... by the summer of 1998, I had everything.

I checked out tour dates... NOPE. I had just missed them. Blast it! Had I missed my only chance? What if they never toured again? Little did I know!

During this time, I was finding out more and more. I having an "inquiring mind" lol. I looked in the library; I scoured the internet. There was this site, and some cool sites that are gone now like The Legacy and the Stevie Nicks Underground. There were also lots of small fansites on free servers. I was really into SnL in particular but didn't see much just on BN - there was just one pretty sparse site with the BN album in realplayer files. At the time, some friends and I were sharing copies of Photoshop and PageMill and experimenting with making websites, and I made a site for BN.

That was 1999. My journey from "Fleetwood Who?" to obsessed megafan with encyclopedic knowledge took about eighteen months!

Love hearing stories like this, thank you for sharing!

[Tango]

1997 - and what a time it was. I thought some might enjoy a review written by John B from that time. His show was at Albany, NY 11/1997. Before the World Trade Centers attack. In the words of Simon & Garfunkle:

Time it was,
And what a time it was
It was . . .
A time of innocence
A time of confidences

Long ago . . . it must be . . .
I have a photograph
Preserve your memories
They’re all that’s left you



"John B.--
boom. BooM. bOOm. BOOM!

Intro to The Chain?

No. That song's familiar downbeat is delivered with equal thumping precision.

The crescendo I've indicated in MY intro--a simple, flat beat building quickly to a chest-pounding fury--is, frankly, my heart.

It represents some kind of emotional timeline for me ever since I tuned in, with modest--not burning--curiosity, to what I presumed was a one-shot deal on MTV back in August.

MTV, of all places--a network with which I had lost contact about a dozen years ago--was showing a reunion concert of Fleetwood Mac, a band whose music I had certainly enjoyed (although I had always found the syncopation of Go Your Own Way a bit unsettling), but whose musical tapestry was of no interest to me and, consequently, whose essence had faded from my brain's active files.

Thus began a three-month odyssey in which five people and their music settled, undeniably, in the deepest recesses of my head, my heart, and my soul.

That might sound corny or hyperbolic, but it's the strange truth. I've pondered this quite a bit, and I know now that it has as much to do with my age (35) and decade-long musical dormancy as it does the music. But I also believe that many people around my age and a bit older can identify, however reluctantly, with some of what I'm going to say. The cloak of anonymity on this board frees us all to say things we wouldn't normally say in public, and I intend to do just that. It's liberating--cathartic, really--and, like I said in my very first post back in August, it's therapy among friends. We may disagree on various aspects of this group, we may all be virtually unknown to each other, but we're all here for a reason: something about this group has driven each of us to seek out others who enjoy their music.

When I last recognized the Mac as a vibrant musical force, they had just released Tusk to suspicious reviews--many people at the time didn't know what the hell to make of it--and then they just kind of dropped out of my head as I immersed myself in the music to which my various college roommates and suitemates were listening.

Then I became a grown-up, sort of, and entered the workforce, and I remember hearing on the radio one day a few years later the charming accent of Christine McVie, introducing the band's two new guitarists. I didn't care, since Lindsey Buckingham's contributions to the group were always a mystery to me. As I mentioned in a post a couple of months ago, I never knew who he was anyway, since I always figured Lindsey was one of the girls, and Stevie was one of the boys. It only made sense.

A fountain of musical knowledge I was not. But neither was I a trickle, having played the guitar for a few years, doing the garage band bit with some friends and a cousin, and knowing my way somewhat around the musical landscape that was emerging FM radio.

Zoom ahead to August 1997. Married twelve years, with three kids and a limited collection of cassette tapes (which, I soon learned, went the way of 8-tracks), and a long-ago discarded turntable that condemned our vinyls to an irreversible death, our musical explorations took my wife and I from one collection of children's music to another. I think our last purchase of anything resembling rock was around 1987, two years before the birth of our first child, and my guitar had been collecting dust for many years.

Then one night, I was flipping through the t.v. guide, a rare occurrence in our house as we are infrequent viewers, and the word "Rumours" caught my eye. I read the program's two- or three-word description, and for some reason I cannot comprehend I became immediately and immensely interested in the making of that album. I don't think I'd ever heard the whole thing played through, believe it or not. More unbelievable, but absolutely true, is the inexplicable nature of something that had always bothered me: my aforementioned lack of insight into Lindsey Buckingham's role in the band. It had never been clarified. This little fact lay dormant on a shelf somewhere way back in my mind, along with so many other mostly useless bits of information and unanswered questions, any of which is looking for some kind of trigger to set it back in motion and breathe new life into it.

The listing of this "Making of Rumours" was just that trigger. It held out the intriguing promise of answering my questions. The couple of brief times I saw Lindsey, he seemed to be playing without a pick, which made no sense to me, and he didn't seem to be playing any leads, and he wasn't singing, so I figured he was just along for the ride, and I wasn't surprised when I'd heard he left.

A brilliant analysis, I know.

Onto the special. Almost from the opening pictures, the transformation in me began to take place. I ate that special up, replayed it, and watched it with my wife, who was half interested.

Then came The Dance. Again, I figured it was a one-shot, and I didn't expect much. I had seen so many reunions that I was deeply cynical, and I fully expected an overhyped, underperformed, completely flat concert.

A keen prediction, I know.

Yet, for the first few seconds, I felt that my cynicism was justified. (I have to take comfort in those few seconds, since we all feel the need to be right once in a while.) Upon first blush, Mick looked too enthusiastic--like he was trying to sell me on the band--while John looked bored, Lindsey looked nervous, and the crowd looked like a giant living room of sedated guests.

Then that first gorgeous harmony hit: Listen to the wind blooooow, waaaatch the suuun riiiiise. So beautiful, so fluid, so perfect.

I've thought and thought and thought about what happened to me next, because it almost defies explanation. I say "almost" because it's taken me awhile to figure it out, and I think that's what this whole message is about, but onward...

I remember looking at them as they sang that harmony. Why did this sound so good to me? What chord in my soul was struck so profoundly that these few simple notes hit me right between the eyes? I remember watching Lindsey's fingers dancing on his strings. It all made sense to me. Suddenly, I knew what the guy and his guitar were all about. He wasn't about mindless, blistering leads; he was about textures. I remember my mouth stayed open--my jaw didn't drop, but neither did it close--and I watched these five, mesmerized, for the next hour and a half.

Mesmerized.

I won't go into specifics about the video, since I've blabbered previously on that much-trodden subject, but I will say that by the time The Chain got to the bridge--John's simple but menacing bass line, followed by Lindsey's hot twanging playing off Mick's intensifying lead-in on drums--my mind was absolutely racing. This moment is arguably among the most exhilarating in any Mac song anyway, and I was stunned at how well they pulled it off. Watching Stevie getting into it, I started thinking that maybe this reunion meant something to them. And by the time Christine got to her pitch-perfect rendering of Songbird, the resurrection, in my mind, was complete. I became, instantly, possessed by the band. I recalled the character in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the guy who builds that structure in his living room, who can't get the vision out of his mind.

At the next available instance, I was searching the Web for information. Then I found this excellent site, and gathered information. And read. And read some more. Every article I could get my eyes on.

I started listening to Rumours and the white album, inhaling both of them, getting my kids and wife involved.

Then, an uncharacteristic purchase: We bought The Dance video. We never buy videos. And then, the unlikeliest twist: We took the plunge, and bought tickets to see them in Albany. Naive to the process (our first concert since 1984), I bought over the phone via TicketMaster, and wound up in, as I called it at the time, Binocularsville.

But I didn't care, because I was on some kind of bizarre mission. Logistics? I didn't know who was going to babysit, whether I could get the time off, whether to stay over in Albany--nothing. I had to see these people, and I didn't care what I had to do to get there.

Seven days before the concert, I received a fortuitous e-mail from a fellow Ledgie (a kind woman, actually) to whom I am eternally grateful. She relayed some posts from The Ledge that told of various people having last-minute luck with TicketMaster. I went to the Website but found nothing.

Until the next day, just as I was leaving work for the weekend. Just for the hell of it, I took a last shot, and was frozen with shock as two seats, seven rows from the stage, became available. Since I've never bought anything through the Web, and since I couldn't believe my eyes, it took me a couple of minutes to make up my mind, and since TicketMaster gives you five minutes to make a decision, I was sweating, knowing that I'd have to sell or eat my other two tickets.

Fortunately, it hit me that I was an idiot for even considering *not* buying them, so I bought them, and then called a laughing TicketMaster agent who was amused that I was so bewildered and dumbstruck by my good fortune. He referred to them as killer seats. They weren't quite that, but they were close to it.

We got to the arena at 7:45, and even though I figured the concert wouldn't start until 8:30, I still wanted to get inside. We made a less-than-half-hearted attempt to sell the tickets; the scalpers are a scary, competitive bunch, and I didn't feel like risking getting caught just to get a few bucks back. We even tried giving the tickets away, but, understandably, people looked at me like I had two heads and ran away from me. I remember visiting New York City almost 20 years ago with a classmate, and when I approached a couple and asked them in which direction the World Trade Center was, the woman looked frightened and she and her husband got away from me quickly, as did four or five others when I asked them.

We humans have really done a number on ourselves.

Anyway, we ate the tickets, walked inside, and sat right in front of Christine's area, seven magical rows back. I tried making conversation with some stiffs behind me and in front of me, but they reacted like I was going to perpetrate some violent act on them if they looked my way. I confess that their reticence gave me just those feelings.

I really don't understand why some people bother attending these things, since they look angry or upset that they're there. What's up with that?

Anyway, I told the kind woman next to me, who looked to be about 45, that I didn't know how I'd react, and I apologized in advance if I elbowed her. She was quite understanding and supportive. She looked like she'd been dragged there, and so did her husband. Which leads to the obvious question: Well, then, if they both look like that, which one of them did the actual dragging?

There was some psychotic-looking guy, front row center, and his biker-chick-type companion who were front row center. (I didn't see any cigarettes rolled up in her shirtsleeves, she wasn't spitting tobacco or using profanities, and there were no visible Harley tatoos, but you know the type. If you've never seen this couple, go to your next county or state fair and take a good look at the people hawking the $2 dart throw.) She was going around trying to enthuse everyone in our section. I wanted to put out my hand and shake hers, since I was simpatico with her attitude, but I was afraid she'd crush the bones, so I'd declined. I'm 6'2" and 215 pounds, but this woman scared me.

Then the lights went down, and the crickets sounded. I felt an adrenaline rush like never before. Never. My wife cautioned me about bad behavior--I don't think she wanted me to embarrass us--but I told her I was guaranteeing nothing.

And then, oh God. Oh Christ. Then, I saw Them. In the shadows. Not running--approaching. At the time, I was not wondering why I--a person of moderate intelligence who does not worship idols of any kind, who couldn't care less about famous people--felt the way I did. But I felt it.

Sounds emanated from my throat that I did not think possible. I put my hands over my head, clapped like a freaking lunatic, and screamed my bloody head off.

Mick started the downbeat, which continued for a sweetly torturous extended period of time.

Then, I watched in total rapture as Lindsey walked, with total majesty, in complete confidence and control, toward his microphone and stood there, almost as if he was posing. His tilted-back head and posture communicated loud and clear that he was in command, and he knew it. The reaction to his performances along the way had obviously influenced this, because he was the essence of Cool. He could've stood there another 20 minutes and done nothing, and it wouldn't have mattered. He was Cool. I mean, Cool.

I knew none of them could hear me, but I screamed Lindsey's name repeatedly. It was almost involuntary at that point. There was that weird ethereal magnetic pull you feel from the group, and vice versa, and I was somewhere in the stratosphere.

He hit those first few sparse notes, and I thought I'd start crying. It was that intense for me. My friends and co-workers would be shocked, but I gave myself up to that band, and I loved it.

I won't give a blow-by-blow account of the concert. You've all read that stuff over and over. I'll mention that our tickets should have been labeled "Acoustical Hell Zone," since the sound was incredibly bad. The mixers should be ashamed; the guitar was way, way, way, way too loud, and the bass distorted everything. When Stevie did her scream in Gold Dust Woman, we COULD NOT HEAR IT. Amazing. The quieter numbers were much better.

But honestly, I didn't care. I was there to drink in the five. Lindsey was a blazing comet throughout; more than anyone, he played like he had something on the line, and that's probably because he does: his upcoming solo album and tour.

I have to pause to say a word about this man. After watching him intently over the last three or four months, I can honestly say something that I probably wouldn't say in the company of others: he has affected me in a way that NO other musician has ever affected me. He's crept inside my bones, right to the marrow, and managed to mine the deepest well of my emotions.

And I have proof, as difficult as it is for a 35-year-old man to admit.

The first time I watched The Dance, I was struck by the tones in his voice. He doesn't have a great voice, but that doesn't matter. When he got to Bleed to Love Her, I was hooked solidly, never to go back. He puts so much of his soul into this song. When he sings the lines "Somebody's got to see this through/All the world is laughing at you," I always feel tears welling up. It happens every time--I'm like Pavlov's dog. I guess I'm Lindsey's dog. And the very end, where he wails with his eyes closed and his mouth wide open, is one of the most moving musical experiences I can think of. His vocal here sounds so plaintive, so sincere--it's filled with such raw emotion, like he's about to cry, like his soul really is bleeding.

Every time I hear this, it reminds me how deeply, deeply enmeshed Lindsey is and always has been in his music. When he sings "Lightning strikes, maybe once, maybe twice," his voice has that same quality. It's, for me, simply beautiful, and I am thankful for his devotion to his craft.

Anyway, back to the concert. When Lindsey was front and center, delivering a scorching lead on (I think) Go Your Own Way, Stevie was standing off to the side, in front of Christine, giving him that same sweet, pensive look she gives him on the video during his "Demon" speech. I started thinking about the two of them, in that living room at a party in someone's house where they met 30 years ago as he played his guitar, and I wondered how she felt looking at this man that she'd met when he was a boy, this man that she lived with, supported and probably nurtured to a certain extent, and now here he was, adoring fans at his feet as they fed off him, and vice versa. The mental juxtaposition of those two images was quite moving.

There was something else, something that, again, speaks more to what this whole thing has meant to me than what the actual event was, and it was this: When Stevie sang Gypsy, she delivered the "And you see your gypsy" line with extra poignancy, as she does on the video and did in other concerts. And I was laughing to myself, because the second time she sang it, she practically reached out and hit the audience on the head because they didn't seem to realize the first time that she was referring to herself. And, I must confess, it made all of these emotions swim, yet again, to the surface. She seemed like my big sister, and I was overcome with a feeling of wanting to rush the stage and put my arms around her, just to beg her to stay this time. I felt so drawn to her at that point; she has a way of engaging her audience anyway, but I wanted her to know that I didn't want her to go away. Especially because it might be forever.

And now the whole thing is over. I feel no optimism about the future of this group. I'm no great prognosticator, and on that basis alone, I hope I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time, and this time I'd be happy about it.

But one has to be realistic. Christine looked like she was having an okay time, but nothing she has said or done gives me any indication that she wants to go beyond this. I don't think she has a need for this, and at 54, she's probably had her fill. I'm sure she has enough money, and I'm sure she doesn't need the stress.

Mick, I'm certain, would like to keep going, and I think he will go forward in some way, with some group. John, I'm sure, will be along for the ride. Those two shouldn't be separated; they're too good together, and they're not singers or songwriters, so unless they begin to dislike one another, they're probably permanently joined at the hip.

Stevie has said that she prefers to be in the band, but she's signed a five-record deal, and she's used to running her own show. I don't think she'll be willing to cede much control to anyone anytime soon. It might depend on Lindsey, or it might not.

Lindsey has, I think, always been the most reluctant of the group. He reminds me of people I know who have an interest in one thing, but stick with a proven commodity to pay the bills until they have enough to go out on their own. From the massive amounts of reading I've done--and it doesn't require the skills of a brain surgeon to figure this out--I think he's always wanted to do his own thing. He feels compromised by the group situation, and that's why he's always taken as much control as possible on their albums. And yet, being in the group allows him to do much of what he wants. Just not all.

He has always resented the lack of credit given him for the group's sound and product, and I think this tour was his way of not only heightening his visibility but also showing the world his role in the group, and strutting his stuff.

I read a post on The Ledge the other day that said Stevie's not given enough credit for her songs, while Lindsey's now given too much--an opinion supported by a few people, one of whom said that that was his role as producer, and that nobody ever said George Martin was responsible for the Beatles sound or writing or something to that effect. The person, upset apparently that Stevie is getting buried in Lindseymania, stated forcefully that her songs were created by, and belong to, her, and that's that. Previously, people have taken issue with Lindsey's contributions by saying that Christine and Stevie have done just fine without him in their solo efforts.

I read all this with a few thoughts in mind, begging for release.

It is an irrefutable phenomenon in our society--in our world, really--that we feel protective of famous people and professional sports teams. We take sides and defend them fiercely. When I was a kid, I defended my favorite baseball and football teams to death. I used to have ferocious Lennon vs. McCartney arguments with my cousin (I was the Lennon supporter). And so on.

I don't think we ever really stop to question why we bother to get so worked up. But I think it probably has something to do with loving something or someone, and not wanting anyone else to interfere or show disrespect for our feelings. It's quite human, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

I think that these Stevie/Lindsey opinions stem from that real human emotion. But I also feel they're a bit misguided; I would encourage these people to give the following some thought: When you step back from The Ledge, a certainly UNrepresentative slice of America, and do some reading about music and this group in particular, you'll see that Lindsey Buckingham never received anywhere near the credit he deserved, and even now, the only people who realize the depth and breadth of his contributions to the band are rock critics, people in the business, and most of the people on this board. And, of course, the band.

Yes, on this board, it seems as if he's gotten tons of credit, maybe too much, but that's just a few rabid fans that visit this site. To most of the rest of the world, Stevie Nicks is the most visible member. I'm sure the tour has done something to improve his profile and credibility, but you really have to read to know what he's contributed to the records.

To whomever stated that those songs belong to Stevie, I cannot rebut that entirely--nor would I want to, since I don't want to argue. But consider this: She stated on one occasion that she read the name Rhiannon in a story, and ten minutes later she had written the song. It is a fact that Lindsey wrote the signature guitar intro--the most recognizable element of the song. It is a fact that she has said on many occasions that he "put the magic stuff" in her great songs; the ones in which he put forth no effort were, by her own admission, not great. He was, by the group's acknowledged consensus, the chief architect (Mick's words) of their sound. Now, how much credit should she get for the song? Obviously, the words are hers, and probably some of the melody, but just like in "Dreams," where--again, it's documented and acknowledged by the group--he turned two chords and some nice poetry into a brilliant song, it's not a black-and-white issue. The song is certainly not his, but definitely not all hers, either.

And I would disagree strongly with the George Martin hypothesis, because I used to be a Beatle fanatic, I've read volumes and volumes about them, and I've seen endless documentaries. The unstated truth, denied by Martin because he's a gentleman and would not want to tarnish the image of The Beatles, is that he had a HUGE uncredited hand in their music. I won't go into details, but trust me on this one.

And I cannot disagree that Christine and Stevie have done just fine without Lindsey, but that misses the point: Regardless of their solo successes and quality, his large footprints are all over their *Mac* music.

But again, this is not something to argue about. I don't feel protective of him, as much as I now adore the guy. I'm just adding a little perspective to the discussion.

I could go on, but I'm tired and you're restless. I think I'll close this novella with a thought that might have a little more resonance for people my age than the younger fans, maybe not. It's this: As I've said, I've tried to figure out why this whole reunion and tour have meant so much to me. I think in my first-ever post, I said that it felt like you could go home again. And I think that's the essence of why I've pounced on this whole thing.

When you see five people reunite and do so well and look so good again after so long, when you see a 55-year-old man drum his heart out for two-and-a-half hours with the enthusiasm of a ten-year-old, when you see a 48-year-old man having the time of his life enjoying a renaissance of his material and newfound recognition of his abilities, bopping around the stage like a kid, when you see a singer re-establish a bond with her audience and her one-time soulmate (yeah, I have opinions on the Stevie/Lindsey thing, but that's another time), you feel like a kid again. Like everything's going to be all right because things are, once again, the way they used to be. It doesn't matter that you're 35; there's a very real subconcious feeling that you've gone home again.

When my father died three terrible years ago, I was a long-married homeowner with a profession, kids, responsibities that I was carrying out, and so on. And yet, as the inevitable and yet unbelievably painful moment arrived, as I held his hand while he literally took the last breath of his life, just the two of us in his dreary hospital room, and I felt the warmth of his soft hands that I was squeezing, and as I smelled his hair and his face, I was not 35 anymore. I was a kid, wishing his daddy would please wake up. Please.

And so I think the parallel holds for this Fleetwood Mac experience. Many of us are kids again--teens, I guess--and the belief that people kiss and make up and reunite and have a good time together tells us that everything's all right again, if only for a little while.

I'll pass through this sentimental phase, undoubtedly. They are, after all, just a band. But for this one all-too-brief point in time, I am happy that this band awakened these feelings in me. I'm grateful for The Dance video, which captured that moment so well, and captured the soap opera that was Stevie and Lindsey so well--for I believe what we see on the video is, indeed, genuine, regardless of how it played out as the tour unfolded--and I'm glad for the tour. If lightning strikes twice and it happens again, I'm there. Definitely. And I'll do everything I can to see more than one concert. I'll be the first in line for tickets to Lindsey's solo tour, and his new album will be in my hands as soon as I can get it.

But for now, I thank them and their promoters for the ride. Unlike the critics who derided the whole enterprise as some cynical attempt to bilk baby boomers out of their money by mining their sense of nostalgia, I was only too happy to take part. I was not taken advantage of; I was fulfilled. Enormously.

If only for a little while.

Now, I think I'll go have a good cry."

[sodascouts]

Thanks for the kind words about my post!

And Tango, thank you for reposting John B's eloquent piece. Wow!

[DownOnRodeo]

It's liberating--cathartic, really--and, like I said in my very first post back in August, it's therapy among friends. We may disagree on various aspects of this group, we may all be virtually unknown to each other, but we're all here for a reason: something about this group has driven each of us to seek out others who enjoy their music.

Anyone watched that documentary 'Holy Hell' about people who had been in a cult? In a poignant moment, a number of the survivors said how they were at a sort of peace with the years they'd dedicated to the cult, because however much they ended up being betrayed and disillusioned by the cult leader, it was worth it for all the good times and fraternity they enjoyed with their fellow cult members.

However much one might get disappointed by the Flawed Five, I think it's worth it--in John B.'s time and today--for the fun and fraternity that can be enjoyed among fellow fans.

[bwboy]

I wasn't asked but want to tell anyway :)

I also still adore Kate Bush to this day.

Thank you for sharing! And I wasn't trying to exclude anyone, I could read stories like yours anytime. My brother liked FM but is an even bigger fan of Kate Bush.

[TrueFaith77]

Kate Bush is the greatest female music artist of all time.

I just really wish she had stayed retired. :sorry:

[sodascouts]

Anyone watched that documentary 'Holy Hell' about people who had been in a cult? In a poignant moment, a number of the survivors said how they were at a sort of peace with the years they'd dedicated to the cult, because however much they ended up being betrayed and disillusioned by the cult leader, it was worth it for all the good times and fraternity they enjoyed with their fellow cult members.

However much one might get disappointed by the Flawed Five, I think it's worth it--in John B.'s time and today--for the fun and fraternity that can be enjoyed among fellow fans.

Oh yes! Two of my closest friends I met through Fleetwood Mac! One lives relatively near me and we get together for all sorts of non-FM related things. The other I just visited for a vacation that had nothing to do with Fleetwood Mac. Side note: she was planning on going to opening night but is now turned off thanks to the Lindsey firing.

Not to mention all the fun times I've had going to concerts around the country and meeting fellow fans! Not just FM but Stevie and Lindsey solo. While I was a graduate student getting my PhD, I was going on road trips left and right. Too bad being a faculty member slowed me down, lol, but by then prices were a lot higher anyway and I couldn't afford it!

I don't regret loving Fleetwood Mac. I still love the music before the fall, although some of it is so ironic now that it's hard to listen to (hello, "Fireflies"). I hope that will pass, as it used to be one of my favorite songs.

It was also hard to listen to Buckingham McVie's "On with the Show" when it popped up on my playlist yesterday...

Dang, what I really want is just for them to realize their mistake and ask Lindsey back. Can it still happen someday?? I so desperately want it to happen... I want to love this band again... but I never will love any incarnations that are blighted by Lindsey's firing.

[Villavic]

But Sugar Mick, it should have never happened. The legacy is ruined. .

Exactly. I agree with that.

[g. fish]

"Dang, what I really want is just for them to realize their mistake and ask Lindsey back. Can it still happen someday?? I so desperately want it to happen... I want to love this band again... but I never will love any incarnations that are blighted by Lindsey's firing".

I share your sentiments Nancy. Lindsey was the creative genius who crafted their songs (and made them wealthy beyond their dreams). And with their advancing age, Lindsey has carried the rest of the group on his back in live performances. No question, he steals the show.

In 1987, I was disappointed when Lindsey left the band. But he left on his own terms. So I embraced the Burnett/Vito era hoping that they could rebound. It wasn't the same chemistry...but no hard feelings towards the band. And then came the Time lineup. Nothing else needs to be said.

With all due respect to Neil and Mike, I have no desire to listen to karaoke from the new members.

Sadly, time is running out. I'm sure they will move forward with their current lineup. How long will it take to heal the wounds? Life is too short. I'm afraid that a reconciliation will never place before its too late.

[FuzzyPlum]

That's ok. Mind if I ask how old you are, and how you became a FM fan?

Bwboy, well, it has a meaning but I might be a little embarrassed to share what it stands for here. Maybe bwBOY subconsciously makes me sound younger, along with the occasional juvenile tone of my posts LOL.


43 next month. I became a fan in 87 (or 88???). Played my parents' Tango record over and over and over every time they were out of the house. For years I could never bring myself to admit to them I was a super fan of their music.

[lovethemac1]

54 and 1/2 years old. Rumours was released when I was 13, and it was the first album of any type that I owned. I played it endlessly. Was somewhat confused with Tusk, but learned to love it. Mirage, loved some of the songs, and then when Tango came along, fell head over heals in love again.

Rumours was the soundtrack to my teen years. I can remember being at the lake for the summers, and all the older (and super cool) water skiing team members would play this album endlessly, and I thought they were so amazing. We would all dance on the dock, on the rocks, in the boat....in the hot summer sun and just have fun. It was the 70's, and people were still in hippie mode. The Eagles were big, Hotel California was the only thing played besides FM. It was just such a cool time, when life was warm and easy.

I first heard Tango in it's entirety during a 7 day sailboat race, a summer holiday in 1987. Again, the sun, the water, the people and the music were all a heady combo. Probably the cocktails helped too. It was like I was transported back to my young teenage years when there were no worries or cares. Now I was a university educated human, working away, so going back to the teen years and the love of FM was like an escape. Lindsey leaving before the tour was disappointing, very, but it was his decision and I wasn't in the income earning level to attend many concerts.

My first child was born in July 1997, and watching TV in the middle of some night that fall, I stumbled upon The Dance on PBS. I was spellbound, and could barely function. So tired, yet soooooo in love with the feeling this band brought out in me. Somewhat suffering from postpartum, this band revitalized me and made me feel those wonderful carefree feelings again. I cried as I watched Stevie sing to Lindsey in SS. My heart beat for both of them, and I remember thinking months later, after watching numerous times......"Man, I wouldn't want to be his girlfriend, he and Stevie are so in love."

This band has meant so much to me, triggers such wonderful memories for me.....that's why I was so devastated by this mess with Lindsey. No one can experience my experiences my way, no one can ever have the memories I have, nor would I expect anyone to, but this is why I get defensive when someone tells me to "Get over it!" in terms of Lindsey's firing. It just hurts too much because I am greedy, and I want to live those memories over and over again at new concerts with the 5 of them. Man, I'm still pissed every time I think of it.

[sodascouts]

Beautiful story.

Yes, for many of us, Mick's declaration that it is a "brand new band" is all too true. The band we loved, that meant so much to us, is gone.

[lovethemac1]

Beautiful story.

Yes, for many of us, Mick's declaration that it is a "brand new band" is all too true. The band we loved, that meant so much to us, is gone.

Thank you sodascouts! It’s good to reminisce.

[Angel75]

43 next month.

Snap, so am I!
What date in July FuzzyPlum?

[SteveMacD]

But Sugar Mick, it should have never happened. The legacy is ruined.

Their legacy?

Their legacy is that of one of the most dysfunctional bands in rock. Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan, the Fake Mac, Rumours, 87-97, Christine retiring, Stevie refusing to record, Bob Welch’s suicide, Christine returning, Stevie still refusing to record, and a Fleetwood Mac album billed as Buckingham McVie…Parting with Lindsey at this stage and going on with a new lineup is perfectly in keeping with THAT legacy.

Happy, full-circle ending? This isn’t Pearl Jam.

[HomerMcvie]

Their legacy?

Their legacy is that of one of the most dysfunctional bands in rock. Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan, the Fake Mac, Rumours, 87-97, Christine retiring, Stevie refusing to record, Bob Welch’s suicide, Christine returning, Stevie still refusing to record, and a Fleetwood Mac album billed as Buckingham McVie…Parting with Lindsey at this stage and going on with a new lineup is perfectly in keeping with THAT legacy.

Happy, full-circle ending? This isn’t Pearl Jam.

That's right. THEIR LEGACY. The lineup that made them a household name(no, not in the 1960s).

Enjoy your new lineup, Steve.

[sue]

That's right. THEIR LEGACY. The lineup that made them a household name(no, not in the 1960s).

Enjoy your new lineup, Steve.

To be fair, in the UK (in the 60’s) Fleetwood Mac were household names and had big big hits.
No not as ginormous as they became with the Rumours 5 lineup.
And your right it’s The Rumours 5 legacy that’s gone.............

[HomerMcvie]

To be fair, in the UK (in the 60’s) Fleetwood Mac were household names and had big big hits.
No not as ginormous as they became with the Rumours 5 lineup.
And your right it’s The Rumours 5 legacy that’s gone.............

That's why I qualified my statement with "not in the 1960's".

[SteveMacD]

That's right. THEIR LEGACY. The lineup that made them a household name(no, not in the 1960s).

Parting ways with Lindsey didn’t ruin their legacy. Calling a Fleetwood Mac album something else, surrendering any future creative potential they might have had as Fleetwood Mac with Lindsey, THAT ruined their legacy. That damage was already done.

[HomerMcvie]

Parting ways with Lindsey didn’t ruin their legacy. Calling a Fleetwood Mac album something else, surrendering any future creative potential they might have had as Fleetwood Mac with Lindsey, THAT ruined their legacy. That damage was already done.

And we know WHO it was that forced it to become that. $tevie Nick$.

The worst thing that ever happened to FM. Lindsey is the best thing that ever happened to them.

[sodascouts]

Parting ways with Lindsey didn’t ruin their legacy. Calling a Fleetwood Mac album something else, surrendering any future creative potential they might have had as Fleetwood Mac with Lindsey, THAT ruined their legacy. That damage was already done.

I haven't really commented on this before, but I finally will.

Whenever you list Lindsey's sins, you always place among them as one of the worst the fact that the album he and Christine McVie made together, on which Mick and John appeared, was not called a Fleetwood Mac album. You have presented this, time and time again, as something appalling - in this case, characterizing it as a move that "ruined their legacy."

Of course, you have every right to your opinion.

However, I find this quite puzzling, frankly.

Stevie Nicks was in the band at the time. Stevie Nicks did not appear on the album. Calling it a Fleetwood Mac album, therefore, would have been inaccurate and false advertising... because... It was not actually a Fleetwood Mac album.

I just scratch my head every time I see you declare your outrage over this.

[sue]

That's why I qualified my statement with "not in the 1960's".

Oh okay, misread or misunderstood....

(I am watching Nigeria and Iceland .....crikey Nigeria score.)

[SteveMacD]

I haven't really commented on this before, but I finally will.

Whenever you list Lindsey's sins, you always place among them as one of the worst the fact that the album he and Christine McVie made together, on which Mick and John appeared, was not called a Fleetwood Mac album. You have presented this, time and time again, as something appalling - in this case, characterizing it as a move that "ruined their legacy."

Of course, you have every right to your opinion.

However, I find this quite puzzling, frankly.

Stevie Nicks was in the band at the time. Stevie Nicks did not appear on the album. Calling it a Fleetwood Mac album, therefore, would have been inaccurate and false advertising... because... It was not actually a Fleetwood Mac album.

I just scratch my head every time I see you declare your outrage over this.

It wouldn’t have even been the first Fleetwood Mac album not to feature an active fronting member. They did “Then Play On” without any participation from Jeremy Spencer, so it could have been done.

[sodascouts]

It wouldn’t have even been the first Fleetwood Mac album not to feature an active fronting member. They did “Then Play On” without any participation from Jeremy Spencer, so it could have been done.

Mick said Spencer played some piano on it, so technically....

However, I do see your point in that light, if you truly believe they would have destroyed their legacy by releasing Then Play On under another name. I understand why you believe it could have been called a Fleetwood Mac album, even why it should have been called a Fleetwood Mac album.

But... if I hadn't been warned beforehand, I would have felt cheated and misled if I had bought an album which claimed to be a Fleetwood Mac album only to discover it was missing a key member, Stevie Nicks. I don't think I am the only one who would have felt that way.

Indeed, I think most fans would have considered it to be false advertising. "We were told we were getting a Fleetwood Mac album, but there's no Stevie Nicks on this. We've been lied to."

I believe it would have dishonest to call it a Fleetwood Mac album. I believe what you consider Lindsey's worst sin was a virtue.

I just wish that you could see that from one perspective, the choice was actually ethical.

[SteveMacD]

Mick said Spencer played some piano on it, so technically....

However, I do see your point in that light, if you truly believe they would have destroyed their legacy by releasing Then Play On under another name. I understand why you believe it could have been called a Fleetwood Mac album, even why it should have been called a Fleetwood Mac album.

But... if I hadn't been warned beforehand, I would have felt cheated and misled if I had bought an album which claimed to be a Fleetwood Mac album only to discover it was missing a key member, Stevie Nicks. I don't think I am the only one who would have felt that way.

Indeed, I think most fans would have considered it to be false advertising. "We were told we were getting a Fleetwood Mac album, but there's no Stevie Nicks on this. We've been lied to."

I believe it would have dishonest to call it a Fleetwood Mac album. I believe what you consider Lindsey's worst sin was a virtue.

I just wish that you could see that from one perspective, the choice was actually ethical.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. They went in with the idea they were making a new Fleetwood Mac album, not a duet album. The way they danced around it not being called Fleetwood Mac was embarrassing.

As for “false advertising,” all they needed to do is have a band photo without Stevie for the front cover. During the press for the album, they only needed to explain that Stevie wasn’t involved in the project due to solo commitments, but was still a member in good standing and would be rejoining them for the upcoming world tour.

[FuzzyPlum]

Snap, so am I!
What date in July FuzzyPlum?


23rd
Happy birthday for next month Angel75
:wavey:


Ahem...sorry everyone else

[Angel75]

23rd
Happy birthday for next month Angel75
:wavey:


Ahem...sorry everyone else

Nearly the same, I am the 26th! Making you Cancer and I'm a Leo.
Happy birthday for next month too!

[Angel75]

We’ll have to agree to disagree. They went in with the idea they were making a new Fleetwood Mac album, not a duet album. The way they danced around it not being called Fleetwood Mac was embarrassing.

As for “false advertising,” all they needed to do is have a band photo without Stevie for the front cover. During the press for the album, they only needed to explain that Stevie wasn’t involved in the project due to solo commitments, but was still a member in good standing and would be rejoining them for the upcoming world tour.

And then she would have sued the pants off then. That theory never would have worked nor would she allow it. She loved holding the reins, but was then pissed they released it anyway under a different name.

[jeets2000]

As for “false advertising,” all they needed to do is have a band photo without Stevie for the front cover. During the press for the album, they only needed to explain that Stevie wasn’t involved in the project due to solo commitments, but was still a member in good standing and would be rejoining them for the upcoming world tour.

I agree that this should have been called a Fleetwood Mac album and that it frankly is a Fleetwood Mac album in many respects, but this sounds far more complicated than doing what they actually did, which was slap a different name on it. The publicity tour would have been a never-ending explanation of what fans AREN'T getting rather than a celebration of the music itself.

What they should have done, but didn't have the courage to because of financial considerations, is given Stevie the ultimatum. They could have called it a Fleetwood Mac album then. The reason they didn't is why kicking Lindsey out over "scheduling conflicts" is so infuriating. One member refuses to record, the other asks for a delay (if you buy the company line). To a band, one of these objections seems like a much bigger deal than the other. (Not to mention the fact that Lindsey was likely fine with keeping the schedule and sprinkling in solo dates, but that's a digression.)

And therein lies the sad truth about the band that we all love... for some of the members, it stopped being about the music a long time ago.

[SteveMacD]

The publicity tour would have been a never-ending explanation of what fans AREN'T getting rather than a celebration of the music itself.

But, really, they weren’t spared questions about why it wasn’t called Fleetwood Mac, and Stevie wasn’t spared questions about why she didn’t participate. They really didn’t gain any advantage by not calling it Fleetwood Mac. If anything, it came off as awkward and it hurt album sales.

What they should have done, but didn't have the courage to because of financial considerations, is given Stevie the ultimatum.

In principle, I agree. However, tours make money, albums don’t, and the reality is that she’s the big draw. I don’t like that, but Mick and John don’t make money from royalties, so they need the income from touring.

[SteveMacD]

And then she would have sued the pants off then.

On what grounds? She doesn’t own the name.

[secret love]

On what grounds? She doesn’t own the name.

Much as I am interested to see Neil and Mike, my preference is easily Lindsey instead and if Lindsey can't be involved (for whatever stupid reason), then my preference is Mick, John, Christine and Stevie.

Why, oh why, did some bright sparks think they should bring new people in? Are they all that insecure that they cannot exist without a lead guitarist? I know - many if not all Mac songs feature guitar. Why not hire a couple of session musicians rather than bring people into the inner circle?

I would have loved a Women of Mac show.

And - to the quoted point. Mick and John own the name, correct. And it's a shame. If John and Christine owned the name, I'd bet we would either not be having a tour, or we would have a foursome.

[Angel75]

On what grounds? She doesn’t own the name.

But if she's a member of the band and that brand name if you like and hasn't consented to an album being released without her in it then she has some sort of case. I am not familiar with US law but I assuming there would be some grounds on that basis, no?

[SteveMacD]

But if she's a member of the band and that brand name if you like and hasn't consented to an album being released without her in it then she has some sort of case. I am not familiar with US law but I assuming there would be some grounds on that basis, no?

She wouldn’t really have a case. Mick and John own the name outright after a lengthy legal case, and they alone can decide when to use the name.

[SteveMacD]

Much as I am interested to see Neil and Mike, my preference is easily Lindsey instead and if Lindsey can't be involved (for whatever stupid reason), then my preference is Mick, John, Christine and Stevie.

Why, oh why, did some bright sparks think they should bring new people in? Are they all that insecure that they cannot exist without a lead guitarist? I know - many if not all Mac songs feature guitar. Why not hire a couple of session musicians rather than bring people into the inner circle?

I would have loved a Women of Mac show.

Fleetwood Mac was always a guitar driven band and has always had at least one male vocalist. They’re not about to change that.

[secret love]

She wouldn’t really have a case. Mick and John own the name outright after a lengthy legal case, and they alone can decide when to use the name.

In his books, Mick talked about Christine calling regularly during the early stages of recording Say You Will, all but indicating she would love to record, if she could get away with not touring. The release of In the Meantime so shortly after Say You Will supports this.

Did Christine ever even consider suing when Say You Will was released without songs written by her? No, because Christine is not a vengeful kind of person.

Would Stevie even consider suing if BuckVie was released as Carnival Begin by Fleetwood Mac? You betcha. Would she be able to prosecute a valid argument as to why a band cannot release an album without her, when she was actually asked to contribute, and refused to participate? Nope.

But the fact they didn't feel comfortable calling Buckingham McVie "Fleetwood Mac" speaks volumes.

[secret love]

Fleetwood Mac was always a guitar driven band and has always had at least one male vocalist. They’re not about to change that.

No need to bring people in as bona fide band members. Plenty of sessions vocalists/guitarists would kill to play with Fleetwood Mac's foursome. I know session vocalists aren't really a thing but it is a possibility, that was not even considered.
And I much prefer their rare piano driven songs. Angel, Songbird, It Takes Time. Just magic.

[FuzzyPlum]

No need to bring people in as bona fide band members. Plenty of sessions vocalists/guitarists would kill to play with Fleetwood Mac's foursome. I know session vocalists aren't really a thing but it is a possibility, that was not even considered.
And I much prefer their rare piano driven songs. Angel, Songbird, It Takes Time. Just magic.


A rock band without a recognized guitarist...is just weird.

[SteveMacD]

Did Christine ever even consider suing when Say You Will was released without songs written by her? No, because Christine is not a vengeful kind of person.

She had already left the band. She might have wanted to participate, but they needed her to be a full member and politely declined.

But the fact they didn't feel comfortable calling Buckingham McVie "Fleetwood Mac" speaks volumes.

Not really. We know why. Tours still make money, albums don’t anymore.

[HomerMcvie]

Did Christine ever even consider suing when Say You Will was released without songs written by her? No, because Christine is not a vengeful kind of person.



Tell that to Bob Welch!

(do you know who he is?):D

[secret love]

Tell that to Bob Welch!

(do you know who he is?):D

Of course I know who Bob Welch is. Outside Peter Green, probably the most important persona in pre-Rumours Fleetwood Mac. And he jammed with Stevie on Ebony Eyes! Several times!

So it's Christine's fault that Bob was not inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, an institution that Chrissy Hynde called "embarrassing"? She may have done him a favour.

[secret love]

Stevie certainly never let Bob down. Wish she would jam with Lindsey again at his solo shows like she did with Bob. But one can hardly say Stevie let Lindsey down when she stayed in the same band as him 41 years after they split. As an aside, did Lindsey and Stevie actually split in 1977, or was it in 1974/1975 or even earlier?

Anyway, so much for her promise to Fleetwood Mac in 1979 "I am never going to break up Fleetwood Mac". :distress:

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[dreamsunwind]

Stevie certainly never let Bob down. Wish she would jam with Lindsey again at his solo shows like she did with Bob. But one can hardly say Stevie let Lindsey down when she stayed in the same band as him 41 years after they split. As an aside, did Lindsey and Stevie actually split in 1977, or was it in 1974/1975 or even earlier?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/h-ZphPSSXR8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

They split in 76, during the making of Rumours but according to Lindsey it happened gradually throughout that year, they'd still be "involved" even while they breaking apart. They'd had problems before that but stayed together.

And I don't think Stevie staying in Fleetwood Mac after they broken up says anything at all about her not "letting Lindsey down" or not. That was her career. If she had left the band prematurely it would have hurt her career.

[SteveMacD]

Tell that to Bob Welch!

(do you know who he is?):D

Funny how people who think Mick is a liar think he was telling Wendy the truth…

Who was the easiest to throw under the bus as far as Fleetwood Mac concerned in 2012?

[secret love]

Funny how people who think Mick is a liar think he was telling Wendy the truth…

Who was the easiest to throw under the bus as far as Fleetwood Mac concerned in 2012?

Well Bob, obviously, but wait, what year did he suicide? Not 2012 was it? Throwing him under the bus at that particular juncture would surely be out of the question.

STEVIE should have been thrown under the bus when she delayed the tour and replaced with Sheryl Crow or Susannah Hoffs.

Gotta say, a line up of Mick, John, Christine, Lindsey and Sheryl appeals to me much more than the current reality. That said, Sheryl would feel too much loyalty to Stevie to say yes and Susannah would be worried about damaging her legacy with the Bangles...though Neil and Mike were unfazed about their respectively very respectable legacies, so who knows.

[SteveMacD]

Well Bob, obviously, but wait, what year did he suicide? Not 2012 was it? Throwing him under the bus at that particular juncture would surely be out of the question.

That’s not what the reference was about. Bob committed suicide in 2012, and Wendy Welch said that Mick told her Christine refused to go to the Hall of Fame ceremony if Bob was included. It was easy for Mick to blame that on the long retired Christine, thus creating no hard feelings between Wendy and the remaining members.

But was that really what happened?

[Angel75]

That’s not what the reference was about. Bob committed suicide in 2012, and Wendy Welch said that Mick told her Christine refused to go to the Hall of Fame ceremony if Bob was included. It was easy for Mick to blame that on the long retired Christine, thus creating no hard feelings between Wendy and the remaining members.

But was that really what happened?

Very true. Mick could be lying, but are there any other theories out there that may be correct?

[HomerMcvie]

Funny how people who think Mick is a liar think he was telling Wendy the truth…

Who was the easiest to throw under the bus as far as Fleetwood Mac concerned in 2012?

Well, Mick IS a charlatan, thief, liar, and general scumbag, so who knows what the truth is. I know that Bob's ~induction~ meant the world to him and Wendy, and he went to his grave, wanting that recognition.

And Bob knew them better than ANY of us ever will, so I'll take "his truth" as most likely being true, over that of any Ledgies with their crystal testes.

[HomerMcvie]

Bob committed suicide in 2012,

Know what's weird? I used to chat with Bob on his website. They lived in Nashville, and I've always spent tons of time there. I always wanted to ask him and Wendy out to dinner, but never did(I guess out of fear that they wouldn't have accepted[although I think they would have]).

Bob committed suicide on a morning that I was leaving Nashville. It was just weird to think that I was only a few miles away(there's your pun) from him, and had chatted with him, and failed to try to meet them both.

Every time I hear a Bob song, I remember that day. I didn't see the news until I got to my other home(in IN), and saw it here on the Ledge.

[gldstwmn]

And then she would have sued the pants off then. That theory never would have worked nor would she allow it. She loved holding the reins, but was then pissed they released it anyway under a different name.

This is a conspiracy theory, not fact.

[gldstwmn]

Much as I am interested to see Neil and Mike, my preference is easily Lindsey instead and if Lindsey can't be involved (for whatever stupid reason), then my preference is Mick, John, Christine and Stevie.

Why, oh why, did some bright sparks think they should bring new people in? Are they all that insecure that they cannot exist without a lead guitarist? I know - many if not all Mac songs feature guitar. Why not hire a couple of session musicians rather than bring people into the inner circle?

I would have loved a Women of Mac show.



Well someone would have to play guitar. What would that have looked like? Waddy? Neale Heywood? The level of hysteria would probably have been the same.

[gldstwmn]

But if she's a member of the band and that brand name if you like and hasn't consented to an album being released without her in it then she has some sort of case. I am not familiar with US law but I assuming there would be some grounds on that basis, no?

Basically Fleetwood Mac is Mick and to a quieter extent John. If they were okay with it being called Buckingham McVie then it's pretty much the same as settled law in my mind.

[gldstwmn]

In his books, Mick talked about Christine calling regularly during the early stages of recording Say You Will, all but indicating she would love to record, if she could get away with not touring. The release of In the Meantime so shortly after Say You Will supports this.



I love Say You Will but they really should have taken her up on that.

[gldstwmn]

Stevie certainly never let Bob down. Wish she would jam with Lindsey again at his solo shows like she did with

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/h-ZphPSSXR8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yes. And can you guess who never showed up to any of those shows? Gee I wonder why? Maybe he was too busy banging on a Kleenex box?

[gldstwmn]

That’s not what the reference was about. Bob committed suicide in 2012, and Wendy Welch said that Mick told her Christine refused to go to the Hall of Fame ceremony if Bob was included. It was easy for Mick to blame that on the long retired Christine, thus creating no hard feelings between Wendy and the remaining members.

But was that really what happened?

I don't think we will ever know the whole story with that.

[MaryLiz2]

Yes. And can you guess who never showed up to any of those shows? Gee I wonder why? Maybe he was too busy banging on a Kleenex box?

Hahahaha. I'd given up on checking in here for any discussion of the upcoming tour. I'm too busy living my life to have to sift through all the bellyaching (it's been MONTHS, I think there are people here having a harder time with Lindsey being jettisoned than he is). BUT, I am glad I checked in today simply because my life is better for having read the above Kleenex box line.

Well done. And thank you.

[MaryLiz2]

I don't think we will ever know the whole story with that.

Let's just all agree to agree that it was Stevie's fault. I'm pretty sure that's how this works.

[DownOnRodeo]

In his books, Mick talked about Christine calling regularly during the early stages of recording Say You Will, all but indicating she would love to record, if she could get away with not touring. The release of In the Meantime so shortly after Say You Will supports this.

Based on this, perhaps one could take the view that SnL essentially fired Christine from Fleetwood Mac, back in 2002 or whenever.

They loved and respected her, but the reality was that ever since they forwent Buckingham Nicks to join Fleetwood Mac, they'd been sharing the stage and the album space with another singer/songwriter.

When CM quit touring during The Dance, and refused to do any hypothetical touring for SYW, SnL used that as an excuse to boot her off the record and, thus, the band. Even though Lindsey had been on (aka made) the TITN album but not toured it, and Christine had previously been on Time but not toured it.

Just one theory/perspective.

[sue]

Let's just all agree to agree that it was Stevie's fault. I'm pretty sure that's how this works.

That made me laugh, very droll.
And you’re right.

[The Chain]

Yes. And can you guess who never showed up to any of those shows? Gee I wonder why? Maybe he was too busy banging on a Kleenex box?

:rolleyes:sounds about right, you mock Lindsey's unconventional creativity, yet you must know in your heart of hearts that it was his unique approach that helped turn many of Stevie's raw ideas into actual works of art. Different strokes for different folks, but I'll take kleenex box banging on a song with actual substance over generic cheese any day, which I would say accounts for about 50% of Stevie's solo output.

[HomerMcvie]

:rolleyes:sounds about right, you mock Lindsey's unconventional creativity, yet you must know in your heart of hearts that it was his unique approach that helped turn many of Stevie's raw ideas into actual works of art. Different strokes for different folks, but I'll take kleenex box banging on a song with actual substance over generic cheese any day, which I would say accounts for about 50% of Stevie's solo output.

Amen. Lindsey's creativity is WHAT made them. Certainly not Old Goat Breath's.

But, now that $tevie nick$ refuses to record with the band, I can see how $he now longer needs him. His studio genius isn't needed on her menu these days.

[sodascouts]

But, now that $tevie nick$ refuses to record with the band, I can see how $he now longer needs him. His studio genius isn't needed on her menu these days.

I've said this before, but I think Stevie may very well record a song with the "new band" if they do that little EP Mick spoke of, even if only to spite Lindsey. If that happens, I speculate that it would be a co-write with Mike Campbell in the style of their others.

Whether or not that will be successful... well, as I said elsewhere, the odds are not in their favor (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=57988). It will sound like a solo song regardless and will be Fleetwood Mac in name only.

I dread it and hope it doesn't happen, which is why I think it will, lol. Be prepared for the worst!

[HomerMcvie]

I've said this before, but I think Stevie may very well record a song with the "new band" if they do that little EP Mick spoke of, even if only to spite Lindsey. If that happens, I speculate that it would be a co-write with Mike Campbell in the style of their others.

Whether or not that will be successful... well, as I said elsewhere, the odds are not in their favor (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=57988). It will sound like a solo song regardless and will be Fleetwood Mac in name only.

I dread it and hope it doesn't happen, which is why I think it will, lol. Be prepared for the worst!

I agree completely. She will do it just for spite. She's so lovely...:lol:

[secondhandchain]

Maybe their new songs will sound more like this version of Gypsy. Isn't Lindsey terrible?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3saIrMAn6v8

[dreamsunwind]

Yes. And can you guess who never showed up to any of those shows? Gee I wonder why? Maybe he was too busy banging on a Kleenex box?

What a silly comment to make. And I'm sure even you knew that while you were typing it out. No one was even saying that Stevie (or Lindsey) had a thing to do with the Bob Welch situation, making a random dig at Lindsey's creativity (that you probably always appreciated prior) even more unnecessary. I agree with the idea that many people here have resorted to childish comments and digs against Stevie but 'fighting back' with more immaturity doesn't help anything.

[dreamsunwind]

That’s not what the reference was about. Bob committed suicide in 2012, and Wendy Welch said that Mick told her Christine refused to go to the Hall of Fame ceremony if Bob was included. It was easy for Mick to blame that on the long retired Christine, thus creating no hard feelings between Wendy and the remaining members.

But was that really what happened?

I remember reading some of Wendy's Q&A comments from after. She implicated all three of the Brits and said Stevie& Lindsey had nothing to do with what happened and claimed Lindsey even said that he thought Bob should've been inducted. Her resentment towards Mick John and Chris was very obvious tbh.

[HomerMcvie]

I remember reading some of Wendy's Q&A comments from after. She implicated all three of the Brits and said Stevie& Lindsey had nothing to do with what happened and claimed Lindsey even said that he thought Bob should've been inducted. Her resentment towards Mick John and Chris was very obvious tbh.

I was FB friends with her, and she insisted there that it was Christine(according to Mick) that refused to attend the RRHOF ceremony, if Bob was there.


I mean, Mick's a lying scumbag, so maybe we'll never know the real truth, but Mick told Wendy, that it was Christine's refusal to attend, that kept Bob out.

My lifetime heroine took a BIG hit to her Superwoman status, in my eyes, when I found out.

[sodascouts]

Maybe their new songs will sound more like this version of Gypsy. Isn't Lindsey terrible?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3saIrMAn6v8

I had never heard that before. Gypsy is my favorite song, EVER. This, even cleaned up, would have been nothing more than pretty good. Thank God for Lindsey Buckingham.

[sodascouts]

I was FB friends with her, and she insisted there that it was Christine(according to Mick) that refused to attend the RRHOF ceremony, if Bob was there.


I mean, Mick's a lying scumbag, so maybe we'll never know the real truth, but Mick told Wendy, that it was Christine's refusal to attend, that kept Bob out.

My lifetime heroine took a BIG hit to her Superwoman status, in my eyes, when I found out.

I understand why many might wish to believe that Christine would never do such a thing and Mick must be lying. Christine is supposed to be the "good one." Believe me, I wasn't excited to hear this either, and I'm definitely not eager to believe it. It is true that Mick had a reason to shift blame elsewhere.

However, considering that such a lie would undoubtedly eventually get back to Christine (indeed, for all Mick knew, Wendy would confront her), I don't think he'd dare make such a thing up. He'd have to know he'd get called on it.

Sadly, I think we must conclude the most likely scenario is that this was one of those instances where Mick was actually telling the truth.

[bwboy]

I agree with the idea that many people here have resorted to childish comments and digs against Stevie but 'fighting back' with more immaturity doesn't help anything.

It's definitely both ways, so thank you dreamsunwind, for acknowledging that. I've responded to posts with a smart/rude/unnecessary/you name it comment just to play devil's advocate on occasion, and sometimes I regretted saying it, not only because it was said out of anger but because maybe I didn't agree with what I actually wrote. It would be nice if everyone would temper their remarks, but even the thread titles alone often show that's not going to happen anytime soon. Things are better now, but once we get closer to the tour, it will start all over again.

[FuzzyPlum]

I understand why many might wish to believe that Christine would never do such a thing and Mick must be lying. Christine is supposed to be the "good one." Believe me, I wasn't excited to hear this either, and I'm definitely not eager to believe it. It is true that Mick had a reason to shift blame elsewhere.

However, considering that such a lie would undoubtedly eventually get back to Christine (indeed, for all Mick knew, Wendy would confront her), I don't think he'd dare make such a thing up. He'd have to know he'd get called on it.

Sadly, I think we must conclude the most likely scenario is that this was one of those instances where Mick was actually telling the truth.


Don't put it past him- he's not always that bright. I get the feeling he often lives for the moment and doesn't think of long term consequences.

[sasja]

Maybe their new songs will sound more like this version of Gypsy. Isn't Lindsey terrible?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3saIrMAn6v8

OMG hahahaahahaaaahaaa!!

Oh boy. What a blessing to the world that Stevie Nicks and TP and the heart breakers never formed a permanent union.

I want my 3 minutes back ( I had to close it after that )

[sodascouts]

OMG hahahaahahaaaahaaa!!

Oh boy. What a blessing to the world that Stevie Nicks and TP and the heart breakers never formed a permanent union.

I want my 3 minutes back ( I had to close it after that )

I went back and listened to the real one just to cleanse my palate.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/glStPHUErJU" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ah. That's better.

[gldstwmn]

Hahahaha. I'd given up on checking in here for any discussion of the upcoming tour. I'm too busy living my life to have to sift through all the bellyaching (it's been MONTHS, I think there are people here having a harder time with Lindsey being jettisoned than he is). BUT, I am glad I checked in today simply because my life is better for having read the above Kleenex box line.

Well done. And thank you.

You are most welcome. :angel:

[gldstwmn]

What a silly comment to make. And I'm sure even you knew that while you were typing it out. No one was even saying that Stevie (or Lindsey) had a thing to do with the Bob Welch situation, making a random dig at Lindsey's creativity (that you probably always appreciated prior) even more unnecessary. I agree with the idea that many people here have resorted to childish comments and digs against Stevie but 'fighting back' with more immaturity doesn't help anything.

What do you suggest?

[gldstwmn]

OMG hahahaahahaaaahaaa!!

Oh boy. What a blessing to the world that Stevie Nicks and TP and the heart breakers never formed a permanent union.

I want my 3 minutes back ( I had to close it after that )

Most of Bella Donna is Stevie and The Heartbreakers and it's pretty freaking awesome.

[dreamsunwind]

Maybe their new songs will sound more like this version of Gypsy. Isn't Lindsey terrible?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3saIrMAn6v8

I was listening to this and to the Bella Donna outtake of it recently. It's crazy to think how the song could've been so different (and forgettable tbh). Thank goodness it got its place on Mirage and became the work of art that we know and love.

[dreamsunwind]

What do you suggest?

Maturity? Childish comments are only worth anything when you allow them to be. So maybe just ignore them? Because responding to pettiness with even more pettiness doesn't help your case, even though we all do it from time to time, all it does make you look just as childish.

[mitzo]

Most of Bella Donna is Stevie and The Heartbreakers and it's pretty freaking awesome.

No it isn't. But anyway...

[button-lip]

OMG hahahaahahaaaahaaa!!

Oh boy. What a blessing to the world that Stevie Nicks and TP and the heart breakers never formed a permanent union.

I want my 3 minutes back ( I had to close it after that )

It's no secret he wanted Lindsey on his band, not Stevie. And he came up with that "no girls allowed on the band" excuse just to avoid putting up with Stevie on a daily basis. He left that heavy duty into Lindsey's capable hands. And look where that got him! :D

[button-lip]

:rolleyes:sounds about right, you mock Lindsey's unconventional creativity, yet you must know in your heart of hearts that it was his unique approach that helped turn many of Stevie's raw ideas into actual works of art. Different strokes for different folks, but I'll take kleenex box banging on a song with actual substance over generic cheese any day, which I would say accounts for about 50% of Stevie's solo output.


And banging a Kleenex Box is pretty much the same as banging a tambourine.... :D

[gldstwmn]

No it isn't. But anyway...

It's not awesome or not The Heartbreakers? :laugh: It's them on Outside the Rain, Kind of Woman, SDMHA, The Highwayman and Benmont plays on 8 of the 10 tracks. Even Stan Lynch played drums on 3 tracks.

[gldstwmn]

Maturity? Childish comments are only worth anything when you allow them to be. So maybe just ignore them? Because responding to pettiness with even more pettiness doesn't help your case, even though we all do it from time to time, all it does make you look just as childish.

I've said far less than I've actually thought hence my signature line. This has been going on for years. Thank you for the advice.

[BombaySapphire3]

It's not awesome or not The Heartbreakers? :laugh: It's them on Outside the Rain, Kind of Woman, SDMHA, The Highwayman and Benmont plays on 8 of the 10 tracks. Even Stan Lynch played drums on 3 tracks.

Mitzo cannot tolerate Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers influence on Stevie's music which begs belief as to why he is looking forward to hearing new "Fleetwood Mac " music when as I and others have pointed out will surely be all collaborations between her and one former Heartbreaker.

[SteveMacD]

Mitzo cannot tolerate Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers influence on Stevie's music which begs belief as to why he is looking forward to hearing new "Fleetwood Mac " music when as I and others have pointed out will surely be all collaborations between her and one former Heartbreaker.

Not speaking for Mitzo, but I’m looking forward to new Christine songs and hearing how Neil Finn fits in. And, John McVie’s bass lines.

[mitzo]

Mitzo cannot tolerate Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers influence on Stevie's music which begs belief as to why he is looking forward to hearing new "Fleetwood Mac " music when as I and others have pointed out will surely be all collaborations between her and one former Heartbreaker.

It is true that at the time of BD's release and to this day I have never understood why she went with the Heartbreakers, whose whole musical direction and sound simply diminishes her own music, not to mention collaborations with any of them. To me there is no magic or beauty on any of the BD tracks and the production fugging sux, period. After its release, despite my previous obsession with her and FM, I ignored Stevie and FM until years later.

But at this stage in my life I would be happy for any new music from her and FM, really.

[HomerMcvie]

It is true that at the time of BD's release and to this day I have never understood why she went with the Heartbreakers, whose whole musical direction and sound simply diminishes her own music, not to mention collaborations with any of them. To me there is no magic or beauty on any of the BD tracks and the production fugging sux, period. After its release, despite my previous obsession with her and FM, I ignored Stevie and FM until years later.

But at this stage in my life I would be happy for any new music from her and FM, really.

OMFG.

Am I REALLY about to $tevie fanboy??? BD is her only masterpiece!!! I love every song on it, AND the production. The country influence always reminded me more of The Eagles than TP, but I love the entire album.

Too bad she couldn't keep up that level of work, and ended up pushing out clunkers like OSOTM.

Bella Donna is in my all time top 20 albums. Maybe top 10!

[g. fish]

Back to the original intent of this thread...

In the 70s & 80s...

Stevie
- Drew in the crowds
- Had a strong presence on stage with vocals and energy

Lindsey
- Was the creative genius behind the sound
- Had a strong presence on stage with vocals, guitar and energy

Last incarnation of Rumours Five...

Stevie
- Drew in the crowds
- Had a weak presence on stage with weak vocals and lack of energy

Lindsey
- Continues to be the creative genius behind the sound
- Had an even stronger presence on stage with vocals, guitar and energy
- Steals the show with his charisma, energy and talent - people leave the concert talking about Lindsey.

Lindsey has gotten better with age. And sadly, he has been compensating for the decline of Stevie and Christine.

And now the new members are going to make up for the loss of Lindsey? My billfold says no thanks.

[secret love]

Back to the original intent of this thread...

In the 70s & 80s...

Stevie
- Drew in the crowds
- Had a strong presence on stage with vocals and energy

Lindsey
- Was the creative genius behind the sound
- Had a strong presence on stage with vocals, guitar and energy

Last incarnation of Rumours Five...

Stevie
- Drew in the crowds
- Had a weak presence on stage with weak vocals and lack of energy

Lindsey
- Continues to be the creative genius behind the sound
- Had an even stronger presence on stage with vocals, guitar and energy
- Steals the show with his charisma, energy and talent - people leave the concert talking about Lindsey.

Lindsey has gotten better with age. And sadly, he has been compensating for the decline of Stevie and Christine.

And now the new members are going to make up for the loss of Lindsey? My billfold says no thanks.
Lindsey may have retained the same level of energy even as he aged, but there is no denying that his vocal quality declined as much if not more than Stevie's. Christine had some off key moments captured of film in 2014-2015 but when I went to their Sydney show, vocally she was the best of all three. I understand by the time of BuckVie she has declined and particularly so on You Make Loving Fun.
Now if Christine had left, that would have been something else. Easily replaced on keyboard by Tuggle and they go back to what they were doing for ten years after Say You Will. But I would have been more upset about that. Don't get me wrong, I am excited about the new line up, but I will miss Lindsey.
I just don't buy the whole idea he was fired out of spite. He admits he was trying to fit solo around Mac dates. Look, either you're fully committed to your band, or you're not.

[dreamsunwind]

Back to the original intent of this thread...

In the 70s & 80s...

Stevie
- Drew in the crowds
- Had a strong presence on stage with vocals and energy

Lindsey
- Was the creative genius behind the sound
- Had a strong presence on stage with vocals, guitar and energy

Last incarnation of Rumours Five...

Stevie
- Drew in the crowds
- Had a weak presence on stage with weak vocals and lack of energy

Lindsey
- Continues to be the creative genius behind the sound
- Had an even stronger presence on stage with vocals, guitar and energy
- Steals the show with his charisma, energy and talent - people leave the concert talking about Lindsey.

Lindsey has gotten better with age. And sadly, he has been compensating for the decline of Stevie and Christine.

And now the new members are going to make up for the loss of Lindsey? My billfold says no thanks.

I don't think Lindsey's vocals are still strong. He's lost basically all of range. He can sing normally and sound decent but anything loud he sounds like he's screaming and anything quiet and he sounds like he's whispering. But he does still play fantastic guitar and has so much energy and interaction with the crowd that it really makes him a pleasure live.

The thing with Stevie isn't so much her voice being 'gone' as it is the fact that her tone and sound of her voice changed soooo dramatically. Sometimes I listen to Landslide and Dreams and have a hard time believing that's how her voice used to sound. And Stevie doesn't do much onstage but I understand that she can't dance and twirl around like she used to.

Christine had a lot of pitchy moments on recent tours. A LOT.

[jmn3]

I don't think Lindsey's vocals are still strong. He's lost basically all of range. He can sing normally and sound decent but anything loud he sounds like he's screaming and anything quiet and he sounds like he's whispering. But he does still play fantastic guitar and has so much energy and interaction with the crowd that it really makes him a pleasure live.

The thing with Stevie isn't so much her voice being 'gone' as it is the fact that her tone and sound of her voice changed soooo dramatically. Sometimes I listen to Landslide and Dreams and have a hard time believing that's how her voice used to sound. And Stevie doesn't do much onstage but I understand that she can't dance and twirl around like she used to.

Christine had a lot of pitchy moments on recent tours. A LOT.

Gotta agree with all you said here. As much as I loathe what they did to Lindsey and the band dynamic, his voice is shot to hell. In particular live, in some cases he's pretty brutal. The lowered key on GYOW (along with the slowed tempo) has taken most of the life out of the song since at least as far back as Unleashed. He makes up for all of this with his stage presence and his nearly flawless guitar playing. As played out as it is, watching the man play Big Love is jaw-dropping. His vocals on that one are...less than jaw-dropping these days.

Stevie's voice is fairly even. She doesn't sound as screechy or raw as Lindsey does, but she comes off as pretty monotonous. Like Lindsey, some of her most powerful lyrics come off flat live due to her inability or unwillingness to hit higher notes. In Gypsy, "...and it lights up the night" is so blah and it's really lovely that the entire audience goes "ohhhhhhh AND it lights up the NIGGGGHT!" while she takes the easier route. Additionally, the bridge and Gypsy really stands out as showcasing her diminished capabilities vocally.

Christine had some consistently bad moments since coming out of retirement. Sadly, she took the worst 16 years off that she could have from that standpoint. It was wonderful to have her back but her vocals and lack of keyboard playing was shocking compared to The Dance.

Sadly, they all got old. That being said, there was still something endearing about this group getting together and giving it their best. I can't say the same for the new incarnation which just comes off as pathetic and cash-grabby. I'm willing to overlook everything above because of the band dynamic that's been built over the last 40+ years with the Rumours Five.

[g. fish]

Lindsey uses his voice like an instrument. Yes, he sings. But he also uses his voice to create sound effects. I cannot think of another artist who is more innovative and creative with their vocals. This is part of his musical genius. We, as long term fans, overlook his vocal talents.

With all due respect to the last two posters, I don't agree that Lindsey's voice is "shot to hell". Take a look and listen...

Tusk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhZ_5gr6NY

In My World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov7Hvc2uvJs

Love is here to stay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c0bBKCKQOk


Respectfully,

[sodascouts]

I think he struggles a bit vocally, gets shouty or a bit pitchy, when he's trying to sing and play at the same time. That's understandable. He also doesn't have as much range as he used to. I wouldn't call his voice "shot to hell" though.

I have no explanation for the whispery crap he does. I hate that and I'm like "Can't you hear yourself and how bad that sounds?" His wife, his kids, someone needs to be frank enough to talk to him about it.... and forbid him from playing NGBA until he can do it at a normal tempo in a normal voice.

[jwd]

Lindsey uses his voice like an instrument. Yes, he sings. But he also uses his voice to create sound effects. I cannot think of another artist who is more innovative and creative with their vocals. This is part of his musical genius. We, as long term fans, overlook his vocal talents.

With all due respect to the last two posters, I don't agree that Lindsey's voice is "shot to hell". Take a look and listen...

Tusk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhZ_5gr6NY

In My World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov7Hvc2uvJs

Love is here to stay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c0bBKCKQOk


Respectfully,

I don't either. I heard him live on the BuckVie tour and he came across sounding fine to me. The only pet peeve I had was that he sang too strong on the chorus of "Little Lies". Christine on the other hand had her moments of pitchiness, but I was still impressed with her as well. "Everywhere" and "Too Far Gone" were highlights of hers for me. I love those two together. Has she left FM yet?

[TrueFaith77]

Bella Donna is in my all time top 20 albums. Maybe top 10!

Other than Eo17, I don’t particularly love BD. It would be my third fav Stevie album after IYD and 24KG.

That said, I don’t think any Mac solo album would make my Top 100 albums of all time. Yet Tusk is my favorite album of all time.

[HomerMcvie]

Other than Eo17, I don’t particularly love BD. It would be my third fav Stevie album after IYD and 24KG.

That said, I don’t think any Mac solo album would make my Top 100 albums of all time. Yet Tusk is my favorite album of all time.

May I guess, that you hate country? Because After TGF and The Highwayman are more country than what they market as country today.

I love country, and that's a big part of why BD is a favorite. I've always said it sounded like the early Eagles were her backing band(they're my all time second favorite band, btw).

Even though I've worn it out, and RARELY listen to it these days, I think I'd have to still put Rumours as my #1. It begat my obsession with music, which became my career. Who knows where I'd be without it. Yeah, Buster and BWBoy would be thrilled....:D

[TrueFaith77]

May I guess, that you hate country? Because After TGF and The Highwayman are more country than what they market as country today.

I love country, and that's a big part of why BD is a favorite. I've always said it sounded like the early Eagles were her backing band(they're my all time second favorite band, btw).

Even though I've worn it out, and RARELY listen to it these days, I think I'd have to still put Rumours as my #1. It begat my obsession with music, which became my career. Who knows where I'd be without it. Yeah, Buster and BWBoy would be thrilled....:D

I don’t claim to be a Country expert but Iris DeMent is my favorite American female music artist. Don’t get more folk country than that! (She’s in my avatar!). Stevie has never released a solo album as great as Iris’s worst album.


And Dolly Parton must be one of the great American songwriters ever. I always buy her albums. Backwood Barbie is her best this century I think.

I dig some modern country like Brad Paisley, Sam Hunt, Kenny Chesney, Dierks Bentley, Ray Scott, Keith Urban—I always give their new work a shot. I consider Chris Isaak and Big Blue Hearts to be country and they are great!

But I am far from an expert... and Always open to recommendations :)

And yes if Tusk didn’t exist, Rumours would be my fav album of all time.
.

[HomerMcvie]

I don’t claim to be a Country expert but Iris DeMent is my favorite American female music artist. Don’t get more folk country than that! (She’s in my avatar!). Stevie has never released a solo album as great as Iris’s worst album.


And Dolly Parton must be one of the great American songwriters ever. I always buy her albums. Backwood Barbie is her best this century I think.

I dig some modern country like Brad Paisley, Sam Hunt, Kenny Chesney, Dierks Bentley, Ray Scott, Keith Urban—I always give their new work a shot. I consider Chris Isaak and Big Blue Hearts to be country and they are great!

But I am far from an expert... and Always open to recommendations :)

And yes if Tusk didn’t exist, Rumours would be my fav album of all time.
.
Wow, you don't hate country. BD is by far $tevie's most country-ish, so my assumption was wrong. I used to love me some Dierks!

[AncientQueen]

I hate Country music, and so to me BD is not that good. Certainly better than everything after Rock A Little, with the exception of TISL. I DO love Dolly Parton, she is a fantastic songwriter, performer, entertainer and made of unicorn and rainbow glitter all around.

[sodascouts]

Bella Donna is my favorite as well, followed by The Wild Heart. After that, she became more and more reliant on other songwriters and there was more and more filler. Trouble in Shangri La was the exception - it was her best album since The Wild Heart, IMHO.

[dreamsunwind]

I do like Bella Donna a lot but in general I never liked the direction that she took with her solo career. When she became obsessed with Tom Petty's music and was wanting to go in that direction, for me it never felt really natural on her. Her music on the 1975 album through Tusk and Gypsy on Mirage is, in my opinion, the true essence of who she was as an artist. It's utterly unique to her and to me feels absolutely genuine and natural. I can't say the same for a lot of her solo work. As popular as songs like Edge of Seventeen and Stop Dragging My Heart Around are, for me it just sounds like Stevie Nicks trying to be 'rock'. Even things like Leather and Lace and As the Glitter Fades to me is like Stevie trying to be that certain brand of country. I think Gypsy did what nothing on Bella Donna or The Wild Heart came close to doing.

[mitzo]

I do like Bella Donna a lot but in general I never liked the direction that she took with her solo career. When she became obsessed with Tom Petty's music and was wanting to go in that direction, for me it never felt really natural on her. Her music on the 1975 album through Tusk and Gypsy on Mirage is, in my opinion, the true essence of who she was as an artist. It's utterly unique to her and to me feels absolutely genuine and natural. I can't say the same for a lot of her solo work. As popular as songs like Edge of Seventeen and Stop Dragging My Heart Around are, for me it just sounds like Stevie Nicks trying to be 'rock'. Even things like Leather and Lace and As the Glitter Fades to me is like Stevie trying to be that certain brand of country. I think Gypsy did what nothing on Bella Donna or The Wild Heart came close to doing.

My exact sentiments. Why the hell she went the faux rock route I will never get. She is always a case of mostly wasted potential. Only with Lindsey's production did she get out of that trap. Sigh.

[David]

I hate Country music, and so to me BD is not that good. I don't think it's a masterpiece, either, which is what everyone is calling it. Its country side is the "dreadful modern country product" that the critic Albert Goldman was referring to in his writeup on Rumours in Esquire magazine. In fact, Goldman made the excellent point that Rumours was a lot more authentically country than the Kenny Rogers-Mac Davis crap that was big on the radio. Rumours, too, is a lot better at being country (Goldman likened the Rumours sound to "long-forgotten strains of ancient mountain music from Appalachia") than Bella Donna is. Even the old Buckingham Nicks demos like Designs of Love, You Could Forget, and Nomad make for more beautiful country than The Highwayman. Not that The Highwayman and After the Glitter Fades aren't nice songs, but Waddy Wachtel's slide guitar and the top-dollar supporting band twang just don't feel very eternal to me.

There's nothing particularly inventive about the way Bella Donna is arranged or produced, either. We already know most of it was recorded live, and that's what it sounds like. The musicians for hire set up their gear, ran through a couple of takes, and that was that. That's fine, it works all right for what it needs to be, but it wasn't painstakingly crafted the way Rumours and Tusk and Mirage were, where you could dig through the sonics of tracks for days and still not fully comprehend the multilayered complexity and density.

Bella Donna's strength is Stevie herself: her persona, her singing (in his Stereo Review writeup, Steve Simels said she sang like a "no-nonsense country belter like Brenda Lee"), and the way her daffy songwriting is all of a beautiful piece with her daffy personality and mystique. But that doesn't make it a musical masterpiece.

[johndeb420]

Sorry but I just don’t get the obsession I read on this board. I saw the tour in 2015 and they had all aged vocally . Stevie does not have the range to belt out Rhiannon like she did at 27, Lindsey who had an amazing voice during the early years simply shouts every lyric, Chris wavers on her vocals a lot but you know what, it was still awesome. One must accept that they have all aged as we all have. I personally believe crap happens and am excited to hear this new line up.

[DownOnRodeo]

Stevie does not have the range to belt out Rhiannon like she did at 27

Stop press!!

Sorry but I just don’t get the obsession I read on this board.

No need to apologize. I think you will find that there are somewhat obsessive fans and more casual fans, and that it is usually going to be the former who would spend their time posting on an online forum.

Neil Finn is no spring chicken himself, but I'm sure his voice is in better shape than the (formerly) fab 3.
But this isn't a Simon Cowell production. If fans were focused solely on who has the best singing voice range, maybe there'd be more activity over on the Post Rumours forum. (...crickets chirping...)

[Macfan4life]

My exact sentiments. Why the hell she went the faux rock route I will never get. She is always a case of mostly wasted potential. Only with Lindsey's production did she get out of that trap. Sigh.
She was packaged that way. Paul Fishkin and the record company were concerned about her fairy image and that the public would never support her like that outside the presence of Fleetwood Mac. They marketed her as mainstream rock trying to give her credibility and the formula definitely worked. Her singing even changed to full vocal compared to whispers with the Mac..
She lost her way in more ways than one during the mid 80s and RAL. That album did anything but rock yet embraced cheezy mid 80s pop sounds that ruined the few good songs she actually wrote for the album.
Personally, I always thought she should have done an AC/DC type of album. I think there was a time her voice was so good for hard rock. Unfortunately we never got anything like that.

[bombaysaffires]

the difference between Stevie and Lindsey is that she desperately wanted fame and did what it took to get it and keep it-- and that included chasing trends in music rather than staying true to her muse. Lindsey "you're not like other people, you do what you want to" didn't get all worried about what everyone else was doing and trying to keep up with trends, he's always been more about making good art and 'if the right ears hear it' and all that. Not to say he wasn't on some level jealous of how successful her albums got and his didn't in the mass market, but he made his peace with it. He could get snotty about it, and mocking of her success, so you know it rankled as he thinks he's the true artist and she's not. Bottom line is that they took very different approaches and appeal to different audiences. That's why FM was better with both of them in it.

[jbrownsjr]

the difference between Stevie and Lindsey is that she desperately wanted fame and did what it took to get it and keep it-- and that included chasing trends in music rather than staying true to her muse. Lindsey "you're not like other people, you do what you want to" didn't get all worried about what everyone else was doing and trying to keep up with trends, he's always been more about making good art and 'if the right ears hear it' and all that. Not to say he wasn't on some level jealous of how successful her albums got and his didn't in the mass market, but he made his peace with it. He could get snotty about it, and mocking of her success, so you know it rankled as he thinks he's the true artist and she's not. Bottom line is that they took very different approaches and appeal to different audiences. That's why FM was better with both of them in it.

He chased certain trends, too. But, I agree that he didn't care if it gave FAME or not. In fact, when he was chasing the CLASH sound he knew it would give him less FAME. So did Mick and Stevie and the board room.

Where Stevie (not really a music writer) (not really a producer) (not really a piano player) came up with melodies and poems/lyrics and gave them to musicians and producers to put in the work for her. And then she shaped it based on her ear and what Jimmy, Dave or Lindsey told her.

I think where she lost me was trying to be a legend, vs. just be yourself. She still twirls and it's so weird to me at her age to see that. The one positive I like is that we don't have to see the fake relationship she plays with Lindsey. She put her cards on the table at the 11th hour.

[FuzzyPlum]

The weird thing is Lindsey probably could have been a pretty successful solo artist if he'd really gone about it in the right way (against his better judgement). He's got a great ear for a hook and can write 'hooky' songs fairly easily. When he decided to steer Fleetwood Mac towards a 'Fleetwood Maccy' sound he came up with Sad Angel. That sort of song could have been a big hit years ago. If he'd banged that sort of thing out as a solo artist he'd have been much more commercially successful- he just didn't want to do that.

[Angel75]

The weird thing is Lindsey probably could have been a pretty successful solo artist if he'd really gone about it in the right way (against his better judgement). He's got a great ear for a hook and can write 'hooky' songs fairly easily. When he decided to steer Fleetwood Mac towards a 'Fleetwood Maccy' sound he came up with Sad Angel. That sort of song could have been a big hit years ago. If he'd banged that sort of thing out as a solo artist he'd have been much more commercially successful- he just didn't want to do that.

I totally agree....he had no desire to get that level of success personally because he had fame and commercial success already in one aspect of his career. I think initially it bothered him that Stevie had a successful solo career and he didn't have it to the same degree but I think with his last three albums he gave up caring about her and being competitive and focused solely on his own individual growth and fulfilment

[Macfan4life]

I totally agree....he had no desire to get that level of success personally because he had fame and commercial success already in one aspect of his career. I think initially it bothered him that Stevie had a successful solo career and he didn't have it to the same degree but I think with his last three albums he gave up caring about her and being competitive and focused solely on his own individual growth and fulfilment
I agree with your statements with his last 3 solo albums. I recently watched Lindsey's Behind the Music again which was filmed shortly after the Out of the Cradle tour. That album had some of the best reviews ever with some calling it possibly one of the best albums ever. There could have easily been 3 hit singles from that album. But it was sad to see him comment how he did not understand why his hit success with the Mac did not translate to his solo career. He joked at the concert for everyone not to yell out "Go your own way" right away. The album sales were very disappointing and the tour was even more disappointing. It was sad to see how sad and frustrated he was with so few recognizing his hard work and talent. I believe his lack of success of a solo artist is what made him go back to Fleetwood Mac. If he had a successful solo career, I don't think he would have went back.
In any event this is all water under the bridge now since clearly at this point in his life he is doing what pleases him only. He knows his solo albums are not commercially successful. He loves playing at small venues with hardcore fans rather than the huge arenas packed with casual or Stevie fans.

[Storms123]

I agree with your statements with his last 3 solo albums. I recently watched Lindsey's Behind the Music again which was filmed shortly after the Out of the Cradle tour. That album had some of the best reviews ever with some calling it possibly one of the best albums ever. There could have easily been 3 hit singles from that album. But it was sad to see him comment how he did not understand why his hit success with the Mac did not translate to his solo career. He joked at the concert for everyone not to yell out "Go your own way" right away. The album sales were very disappointing and the tour was even more disappointing. It was sad to see how sad and frustrated he was with so few recognizing his hard work and talent. I believe his lack of success of a solo artist is what made him go back to Fleetwood Mac. If he had a successful solo career, I don't think he would have went back.
In any event this is all water under the bridge now since clearly at this point in his life he is doing what pleases him only. He knows his solo albums are not commercially successful. He loves playing at small venues with hardcore fans rather than the huge arenas packed with casual or Stevie fans.

I think he's very aware of who he is and very comfortable in his own skin. Christine is very similar (from my observation)

[sleepless child]

So on Jan. 28th, Stevie had Lindsey over to her house to fire him? And Mick was in New York? We know Chris was in London, was John in the basement too? I guess I'm trying to find out, how can Stevie fire Lindsey? The band except for Chris must have been at Stevie's house. Maybe not John, but Stevie and Mick fired Lindsey then? I'm sorry to be obtuse, just looking for some clarification from an earlier post that said Mick was in New York on Jan. 28th. If Stevie was able to fire Lindsey, then she has more power in the band than anyone realized.

[elle]

So on Jan. 28th, Stevie had Lindsey over to her house to fire him? And Mick was in New York? We know Chris was in London, was John in the basement too? I guess I'm trying to find out, how can Stevie fire Lindsey? The band except for Chris must have been at Stevie's house. Maybe not John, but Stevie and Mick fired Lindsey then? I'm sorry to be obtuse, just looking for some clarification from an earlier post that said Mick was in New York on Jan. 28th. If Stevie was able to fire Lindsey, then she has more power in the band than anyone realized.

Lol you are taking some metaphors too literally. Band’s loyalty to LB was not literally tourturrd by SN in her basement, while appeased by Mick. One of the versions I heard was that LB was fired by the phone call. So if that’s true, sounds like that phone call happened on 28th.

[jwd]

So on Jan. 28th, Stevie had Lindsey over to her house to fire him? And Mick was in New York? We know Chris was in London, was John in the basement too? I guess I'm trying to find out, how can Stevie fire Lindsey? The band except for Chris must have been at Stevie's house. Maybe not John, but Stevie and Mick fired Lindsey then? I'm sorry to be obtuse, just looking for some clarification from an earlier post that said Mick was in New York on Jan. 28th. If Stevie was able to fire Lindsey, then she has more power in the band than anyone realized.


Stevie Nicks DOES NOT HAVE A BASEMENT!

[bombaysaffires]

Stevie has always wanted fame, and she has always been good at getting people to like her. Even Lindsey has acknowledged this, and attributes it, I think correctly, to the fact that she moved around so much as a kid and was always having to jump in somewhere new and make new friends all the time. She learned quickly how to make friends. (I have friends who moved around a lot because their parents were in the military and they are genius at being super personable and being able to walk into any group of people and make instant friends. You learn how to do that out of necessity when you move a lot). So Stevie has an instant friendliness and likability that draws people to her. That's important in attracting fans in this business.

She's also very attractive, and she became very good very quickly at realizing how to take captivating photos. She became friends with Herbie (always good at becoming friends with people who can help her) and learned a lot from him how to craft a visual image for herself with her costumes and her poses and all that. She did a zillion photo shoots with him and then countless coked up nights taking photos of herself.

Now think about Lindsey-- gorgeous, definitely, but not exactly warm and fuzzy. He isn't someone that people warm to (maybe more now but not back in the day). Maybe that's part of his childhood of growing up in the same small community all his life, who knows? He's very competitive -- likely part of growing up in with all brothers who were athletes and driven and competitive. You don't get to be an Olympic silver medalist by being a slacker. He may think he was a a slacker compared to his brother but he shows the same drive of long hours perfecting his talent as any athlete.

So a bit of a loner, driven, very critical of himself and others.... not easy to get to know. Very, very different than Stevie. And he didn't spend a lot of time thinking about his outfits and his poses and learning how to take just the right intriguing pics of himself. Instead he spent those hours perfecting his guitar playing and in the studio etc.

So it makes a lot of sense that Stevie captured the public's attention and imagination in ways that Lindsey did not. And that's a big part of success-- which irked Lindsey to no end because he grew up in the athlete model where success comes to those who practice, practice, practice and put the hours and hard work into their talent. And he did that, but in entertainment it's a lot about people liking you. It's like with presidential candidates, where people vote for the person who they most want to go drink a beer with rather than the person who's smart enough to run the country. Most people would say they'd rather go have a beer, or hang out with, Stevie than Lindsey over most of the years of FM.

She also doesn't drone on in the same way in interviews as he has done. I mean, she drones, but she tells stories and is dramatic and gives them good sound bytes. His droning is very dry and pedantic. In other words, she understood how to play the fame game better than he did much earlier in their careers. It matters more than talent often. Just look at the Kardashians. :sorry: