MIRAGE DELUXE Release date 7/29/16 and more...

[jbrownsjr]

I've just watched the "Live At The Forum" concert from 1982, which is featured on the Super Deluxe of Mirage (audio CD only).

Is it just me or did Stevie forget half the lyrics to Rhiannon?

I realise that she was probably off her face at the time. She was much better when she performed that track in 2015 in London, when I saw them live.

I think she forgot the lyrics the most. But to her credit, sometimes the lyrics she made up were very cool.

[Andrew Smith]

I think she forgot the lyrics the most. But to her credit, sometimes the lyrics she made up were very cool.

Also, Lindsey sang some parts of Sisters Of The Moon which he didn't do on the studio version from Tusk.

I wondered if he took over on vocals because he knew that Stevie was having trouble remembering the lyrics. Obviously, I know the reasons as to why she seemed in such a state at that time.

[bwboy]

Stevie doesn't seem out of her mind on drugs on this video. At all. I personally feel she hammed it up in this performance, and her change of lyrics was the result.

[lbfan]

Also, Lindsey sang some parts of Sisters Of The Moon which he didn't do on the studio version from Tusk.

I wondered if he took over on vocals because he knew that Stevie was having trouble remembering the lyrics. Obviously, I know the reasons as to why she seemed in such a state at that time.

I believe he sang that same part previously on the Mirage tour. I seem to recall him singing that verse in a Bob Dylan voice (I think it was the Memphis show).

[sanders8323]

He actually sang that part in Sisters of the Moon, I think, on every Mirage tour performance.

Stevie's tendency to change the lyrics I don't believe was her forgetting the lyrics at all. She quite often would improvise lyrics or change them up depending on where she was in her life at the time or just based on her mood that day. Alot of times she would sing lyrics that were in the demo versions of the song but did not make it on the album, like in Sara and Sisters of the Moon.

[jbrownsjr]

He actually sang that part in Sisters of the Moon, I think, on every Mirage tour performance.

Stevie's tendency to change the lyrics I don't believe was her forgetting the lyrics at all. She quite often would improvise lyrics or change them up depending on where she was in her life at the time or just based on her mood that day. Alot of times she would sing lyrics that were in the demo versions of the song but did not make it on the album, like in Sara and Sisters of the Moon.

Oh she definitely forgets lyrics.

I knew him another way
I knew him another day
In some ways he'd forgotten me
In many ways he got to me
I turned away so he couldn't see
I turned away... it could never be
I never thought he could walk away
But I lost him again... yesterday

She had that written down on stage because she'd mess this up so much.
I do like what she makes up, sometimes. She's creative in her misses.

[Andrew Smith]

Oh she definitely forgets lyrics.

I knew him another way
I knew him another day
In some ways he'd forgotten me
In many ways he got to me
I turned away so he couldn't see
I turned away... it could never be
I never thought he could walk away
But I lost him again... yesterday

She had that written down on stage because she'd mess this up so much.
I do like what she makes up, sometimes. She's creative in her misses.

I didn't notice it with Sisters Of The Moon, only on Rhiannon. I feel she could've done better at the time. Thankfully, when she did Rhiannon last year in London it was ten times better. No mistakes at all.

[bombaysaffires]

Stevie doesn't seem out of her mind on drugs on this video. At all. I personally feel she hammed it up in this performance, and her change of lyrics was the result.

Really? One word comes to mind: coke. Especially on Sisters.

[bwboy]

I guess comparing the Mirage video to Stevie's Red Rocks video, the cocaine use is much more evident in Red Rocks. Her gibberish in Sisters sounds deliberate, for example. But note the way Stevie is totally lost during Red Rocks, specifically when she almost missed her cue to start singing Dreams- she was out of it! She doesn't come across lost or confused on Mirage.

[jbrownsjr]

Really? One word comes to mind: coke. Especially on Sisters.

And even if she's coked out.. She performs with a special intensity..

[HomerMcvie]

And even if she's coked out.. She performs with a special intensity.. It's too bad she lost her connections.

[BombaySapphire3]

I guess comparing the Mirage video to Stevie's Red Rocks video, the cocaine use is much more evident in Red Rocks. Her gibberish in Sisters sounds deliberate, for example. But note the way Stevie is totally lost during Red Rocks, specifically when she almost missed her cue to start singing Dreams- she was out of it! She doesn't come across lost or confused on Mirage.

The "gibberish " in the Mirage video in SOTM was her version of "speaking in tongues'

[Nathan]

It's too bad she lost her connections.

I bet she could still drum something up.

[jbrownsjr]

The "gibberish " in the Mirage video in SOTM was her version of "speaking in tongues'

I loved when she does that. So good!

[HomerMcvie]

I loved when she does that. So good!
The height of her game. Of all their games, actually. We've been sliding downhill since 1982! FOL...

[jbrownsjr]

The height of her game. Of all their games, actually. We've been sliding downhill since 1982! FOL...

I think Stevie did the first fall. The rest sort of hung in there. Quality vs Sales.. this is..

[jbrownsjr]

The height of her game. Of all their games, actually. We've been sliding downhill since 1982! FOL...

I think Stevie did the first fall. The rest sort of hung in there. Quality vs Sales.. that is..

[HomerMcvie]

I heard you the first time.

[jbrownsjr]

I heard you the first time.

haha.. I didn't even know what you were talking about.. 'til I looked.

[HomerMcvie]

haha.. I didn't even know what you were talking about.. 'til I looked. I'll be here all week. Try the veal...

[iamnotafraid]

I think Stevie did the first fall. The rest sort of hung in there. Quality vs Sales.. that is..

I think that happened when she started mixing
M&M's with Klonopin.

[jbrownsjr]

I think that happened when she started mixing
M&M's with Klonopin.

And Joe Walsh, and Don Henley and Waddy, and ........

[iamnotafraid]

$54.99 for the Deluxe version of Mirage
at www.popmarket.com

Best price I've seen.

[dreamsunwind]

Did she really do Waddy? Has it been confirmed or is it just a rumor? Did she go totally blind in the 80s? Joe Walsh, Jimmy Iovine, Waddy, Rupert Hine.
Not every guy has to look like Lindsey but......

[jbrownsjr]

Did she really do Waddy? Has it been confirmed or is it just a rumor? Did she go totally blind in the 80s? Joe Walsh, Jimmy Iovine, Waddy, Rupert Hine.
Not every guy has to look like Lindsey but......

she did...

[dreamsunwind]

she did...

how tragic.

[michelej1]

Did she really do Waddy? Has it been confirmed or is it just a rumor?

Neither of them have confirmed it. I don't think there have been rumors about it, other than the If Anyone Falls quote, which can be explained away as just a joke.

Michele

[AnthonyMI]

Did she really do Waddy? Has it been confirmed or is it just a rumor? Did she go totally blind in the 80s? Joe Walsh, Jimmy Iovine, Waddy, Rupert Hine.
Not every guy has to look like Lindsey but......

Someone as vain and shallow as Stevie (I mean, come on, even the most loving fan knows it to be true) you would think would be picky about how attractive her mate is. some people you might think that they are just really good people who can look past a person's looks and find "inner beauty". Lets face it though... most her choices lack inner beauty and were just as fast burn the candle at both end addicts as she was. But seems like anyone famous or powerful or talented she was drawn towards and would hook up with. Anyone.

Fugly? She would tap that.
Rich? yup.
Married? No problem.
Ex of a BFF. why not?
Band mate? Sign her up.
Producer of her album of the moment? Hello and/or DUH?!


The more forbidden and tragic the better! Kim Anderson case in point.

Tom Petty is about the ONLY one she never (that we know of) who somehow eluded capture. hehe

My mom has a name for women like that... Starts with an H and ends in an O.

For every one of those though we got at least a dozen great songs, each!! Even Tom! hahahahaha. Thank goodness for Stevie Nicks'

[iamnotafraid]

$54.99 for the Deluxe version of Mirage
at www.popmarket.com

Best price I've seen.


Even better add the promotional code
WELCOME20 for a 20% discount then
the price of the Deluxe box set drops to
$43.99

Can't beat that.

[HomerMcvie]

I'll probably wait until it's been out a few months, then try to find it.

I'd like to douchishly point out, that I just bought the whole shebang for $49.05, including shipping.

THANKS - iamnotafraid!!!!!


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Fleetwood Mac | Mirage | 3 CD / LP / DVD Deluxe Box Set
Fleetwood Mac | Mirage | 3 CD / LP / DVD Deluxe Box Set 1
$ 54.99
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Shipping $ 5.05
Total USD $ 49.05

[iamnotafraid]

THANKS - iamnotafraid!!!!!



You're welcome David!

[HomerMcvie]

You're welcome David!

I do appreciate it, and I was mainly proud - that I refused to pay $86!, and held out, and knew that a much better deal would come along!

Thanks again.

[iamnotafraid]

I was mainly proud - that I refused to pay $86!, and held out, and knew that a much better deal would come along!

Thanks again.

I should have done the same thing.

[AncientQueen]

My mom has a name for women like that... Starts with an H and ends in an O.

Well, male rock singers had tons of (often underage) groupies. What were they called?

Superstars!

Let's be fair to Stevie and every other female who has a dating history.

[lilyfee]

Well, male rock singers had tons of (often underage) groupies. What were they called?

Superstars!

Let's be fair to Stevie and every other female who has a dating history.

Seconded. I don't think Stevie was any more promiscuous than her male counterparts... Including Lindsey and (especially) her other band mates. And even if she did sleep with Waddy, etc... So what? A sexually liberated woman who enjoys and finds inspiration in the company of men is akin to a prostitute?:confused:

[dreamsunwind]

Seconded. I don't think Stevie was any more promiscuous than her male counterparts... Including Lindsey and (especially) her other band mates. And even if she did sleep with Waddy, etc... So what? A sexually liberated woman who enjoys and finds inspiration in the company of men is akin to a prostitute?:confused:

I agree with this. Slut shaming isn't cute. My thing is more just like...why these particular guys? Why always ugly, why always married etc. It's her choices that get me :shrug:

[HomerMcvie]

I agree with this. Slut shaming isn't cute. My thing is more just like...why these particular guys? Why always ugly, why always married etc. It's her choices that get me :shrug:

I agree.

If most of her men weren't ASS UGLY, we wouldn't be talking about this!:lol:

[SisterNightroad]

I agree with this. Slut shaming isn't cute. My thing is more just like...why these particular guys? Why always ugly, why always married etc. It's her choices that get me :shrug:
Well, actually only very few were truly married guys, Mick and the Beautiful Child guy. Aside from Kim that however was a widower but also probably it was a marriage of convenience, Rupert Hine was separated from his wife at the time they dated.

On another note I've read an interview with Waddy where he told that he also had a relationship with Carole King during his early days and now he's (still I think) happily married to an attractive woman, and he jokingly said that his secret was that he's good in bed. I guess he's the "handsome ugly" type, he seems good hearted, funny and pretty smart (plus he's a great guitarist) so he's relatively popular with women.

[dreamsunwind]

Well, actually only very few were truly married guys, Mick and the Beautiful Child guy. Aside from Kim that however was a widower but also probably it was a marriage of convenience, Rupert Hine was separated from his wife at the time they dated.

On another note I've read an interview with Waddy where he told that he also had a relationship with Carole King during his early days and now he's (still I think) happily married to an attractive woman, and he jokingly said that his secret was that he's good in bed. I guess he's the "handsome ugly" type, he seems good hearted, funny and pretty smart (plus he's a great guitarist) so he's relatively popular with women.

Joe Walsh was also married I believe. Don't know if he was separated or something but he was married.

Waddy does seem kinda funny, like he has a good sense of humor. Plus I think Stevie tends to like guitarists in general.

[SisterNightroad]

Joe Walsh was also married I believe. Don't know if he was separated or something but he was married.

Waddy does seem kinda funny, like he has a good sense of humor. Plus I think Stevie tends to like guitarists in general.
Oh yes, I always forget about that guy. I think he was separated too but his personal life is so very confusing, he's on his fifth marriage now; I only know that he and the wife in question separated when their daughter was very small.
However I think if the Waddy connection is true, he still would be one of her best picks in my opinion, he's the only one who hasn't gossiped or discredited her publicly in interviews only to gain more attention for himself, whenever he talks about her he's always only fair and praising.

[dreamsunwind]

Oh yes, I always forget about that guy. I think he was separated too but his personal life is so very confusing, he's on his fifth marriage now; I only know that he and the wife in question separated when their daughter was very small.
However I think if the Waddy connection is true, he still would be one of her best picks in my opinion, he's the only one who hasn't gossiped or discredited her publicly in interviews only to gain more attention for himself, whenever he talks about her he's always only fair and praising.

Not to mention how his perception of their relationship seems to be so different from hers.

She and Waddy do seem to have a great friendship which is really great especially considering they knew each other back even in the BN days.

I do wonder what was the big deal that went down with Rupert Hine. That thing in the Timespace liner notes for Rooms on Fire where she was like "we could never be together and it had nothing to do with love".

[SisterNightroad]

Not to mention how his perception of their relationship seems to be so different from hers.

She and Waddy do seem to have a great friendship which is really great especially considering they knew each other back even in the BN days.

I do wonder what was the big deal that went down with Rupert Hine. That thing in the Timespace liner notes for Rooms on Fire where she was like "we could never be together and it had nothing to do with love".
I remember reading that he and his wife were separated but then discovered she was pregnant and he ultimately decided to try returning with her.

[Nathan]

I do wonder what was the big deal that went down with Rupert Hine. That thing in the Timespace liner notes for Rooms on Fire where she was like "we could never be together and it had nothing to do with love".

I heard he or an associate of his brought cocaine into the studio.

[SisterNightroad]

I heard he or an associate of his brought cocaine into the studio.
Yes, there was that rumour too!
Now that I think about it I've seen three versions of what happened:
1) As I've posted, he decided to mend his relationship with his wife after discovering she was pregnant
2) As you've posted, he or someone from his staff has brought drugs in the studio and Stevie decided to end it because she didn't want to fall back into it
3) Stevie got pregnant and decided to have an abortion, this put a strain on the relationship and thus made it end.

[michelej1]

This is one of the many places where we've tried to dissect the Rupert Hines mystery: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?p=878100

[bombaysaffires]

I'm sure we've discussed this somewhere else along the way, but I always assumed the song Love Is was about him
"you know that I cannot stay
Yes, I know
It has nothing to do with you or with love...
Oh yes it does"

[dreamsunwind]

I'm sure we've discussed this somewhere else along the way, but I always assumed the song Love Is was about him
"you know that I cannot stay
Yes, I know
It has nothing to do with you or with love...
Oh yes it does"

I assumed Love Is is about Dallas Taylor because I've seen a lot of people say that that song and For What It's Worth are about the same thing.

And by the way, the fact that they had that relationship is really inappropriate in so many ways since he was supposed to be her counselor. That's something you could get fired for and potentially have your license revoked.

[bombaysaffires]

I assumed Love Is is about Dallas Taylor because I've seen a lot of people say that that song and For What It's Worth are about the same thing.

And by the way, the fact that they had that relationship is really inappropriate in so many ways since he was supposed to be her counselor. That's something you could get fired for and potentially have your license revoked.

could be. never know. but something about the use of the same language "it had nothing to do with love" in the song and in her description of why they split..... makes me wonder. :shrug:

[HomerMcvie]

I finally got around to listening to most of the boxed set yesterday, since I had a long drive to make. Is it just me, or the live disc IS EXACTLY the Mirage video's audio? Same songs, same order, same speeches, same studio sweetening. I was really hoping for something I hadn't been listening to since 1982!

[Macfan4life]

I finally got around to listening to most of the boxed set yesterday, since I had a long drive to make. Is it just me, or the live disc IS EXACTLY the Mirage video's audio? Same songs, same order, same speeches, same studio sweetening. I was really hoping for something I hadn't been listening to since 1982!
This is one of the great mysteries of the Mac. Where is any other live Mirage footage?
Maybe there is a reason these are the songs that made it to the HBO special.

[Wdm6789]

This is one of the great mysteries of the Mac. Where is any other live Mirage footage?
Maybe there is a reason these are the songs that made it to the HBO special.


I wonder how they chose the songs to include and the ones to cut. I wonder why Hold Me wasn't on there, that was a big hit in 1982.

[HomerMcvie]

I wonder how they chose the songs to include and the ones to cut. I wonder why Hold Me wasn't on there, that was a big hit in 1982. I'm SAYING, (if you've never seen the Mirage concert video), that THAT'S what they sold us. The audio from a 34yo video cassette!!!!

[BLY]

So I pulled out my Mirage reissue cd tonight to focus in on some of my farorite tracks to blast.( thanks to the wife for always letting me get this out of system from time to time) I love these tracks............in this order(at the moment)

Eyes Of The World
Wish You Were Here
Book Of Love
That's Alright
Empire States
If You Were My Love
Goodbye Angel
Smile At You
Cool Water

[Wdm6789]

I'm SAYING, (if you've never seen the Mirage concert video), that THAT'S what they sold us. The audio from a 34yo video cassette!!!!


I'm well aware of that. I have seen the Mirage tour video. That is what I was referencing earlier when I asked how they decided on what songs to include and what songs to cut for the HBO Mirage video thing. Why those 13 songs?

[HomerMcvie]

I'm well aware of that. I have seen the Mirage tour video. That is what I was referencing earlier when I asked how they decided on what songs to include and what songs to cut for the HBO Mirage video thing. Why those 13 songs?
Because laziness prevails, and those songs had already been "sweetened" for the video, so they had to do nothing to put it out.

[michelej1]

The Bay Area Reporter by Gregg Shapiro 1/5/2017

http://www.ebar.com/arts/art_article.php?sec=music&article=1543

Mirage

The fourth of Fleetwood Mac's multi-platinum studio albums, 1982's Mirage (WB), has been reissued in a marvelous expanded deluxe edition, including the original LP on 180 gram vinyl, three CDs and one DVD audio disc. In addition to two massive hit singles, Christine McVie's "Hold Me" and Stevie Nicks' "Gypsy," Mirage found the band returning to the more commercially accessible sound of 1977's Rumours , although traces of 1979's Tusk can be heard in Lindsey Buckingham tunes "Empire State," "Book of Love" and "Can't Go Back." Nicks also shines on "Straight Back" and sweet country emotion of "That's Alright." The second disc features 20 "outtakes & sessions" and includes the Mac's cover of Bob Nolan's "Cool Water," previously available on the second edition of the Revenge of the Killer B's compilation. The third disc was recorded live at the Forum in LA in 1982, and the DVD audio presents Mirage in 5.1 Surround and 24/96 Stereo Audio.

[Street_Dreamer]

I've been listening to Hold Me lately and for whatever reason, the song just clicked with me. The remaster was something that definitely needed to happen. It almost makes Mirage sound like a completely different album. I've always loved Hold Me but the remaster gives that song in particular has changed for me. It's as if the song's true greatness was able to really show through even better than it was before.

[BLY]

I've been listening to Hold Me lately and for whatever reason, the song just clicked with me. The remaster was something that definitely needed to happen. It almost makes Mirage sound like a completely different album. I've always loved Hold Me but the remaster gives that song in particular has changed for me. It's as if the song's true greatness was able to really show through even better than it was before.



I feel that way about the entire Mirage album....the remaster was much needed. I’m so happy to have all 5 sets remastered . I love the alternative tracks as well.

[jbrownsjr]

I've been listening to Hold Me lately and for whatever reason, the song just clicked with me. The remaster was something that definitely needed to happen. It almost makes Mirage sound like a completely different album. I've always loved Hold Me but the remaster gives that song in particular has changed for me. It's as if the song's true greatness was able to really show through even better than it was before.

I had a turntable with these really fantastic hi fidelity speakers when I first bought Mirage.

When I played that album on this brand new system, it was so crisp and wonderful. And Hold Me in particular had that, "punch you right in the face" snap! right after Christine's piano intro.
Other moments that were beautiful were Only Over You: (guitar outtro and vocal blends), WYWH: (outro piano), Gypsy: (guitar outro). Plus, so many more.
Also, give Mick credit here, the drums sound absolutely fantastic the whole album.

You've inspired me to go listen to it again. Maybe with some bourbon.

[aleuzzi]

I’ve been listening obsessively to the alternate version of Only Over You on the Mirage Deluxe. It’s so good! I prefer it to the album version. The hypnotic backing track sounds like some Todd Rungren tune from SOMETHING/ANYTHING. And the long outro with some choice piano licks—

Tres cool.

[Macfan4life]

I’ve been listening obsessively to the alternate version of Only Over You on the Mirage Deluxe. It’s so good! I prefer it to the album version. The hypnotic backing track sounds like some Todd Rungren tune from SOMETHING/ANYTHING. And the long outro with some choice piano licks—

Tres cool.
It is good and I smell what you are cooking. The guitar and beat midway does sound like Todd Rungren. You have very perceptive ears because few could have found that adjective to describe it.

The studio version is drowning in overdubs. I am ok with that because this was the Mac's extreme overdub album and they were all at peak vocal performance. When I first got Mirage, this song was my least favorite. Something about songs where the vocalist starts right away before or with the music turns me off. I never gave the song a fair chance. Over the years I re-discovered it and its such a hypnotic, bouncy, dreamy lovey, dovey, lullaby. I love Lindsey's guitar and Mick's drumming. I love they let them jam in the end but it ends too soon. This song gets beaten up on this board as always someone's least favorite songs. They need to listen again and rediscover it because its one of their best. On another note, the title is very literal. Yes, Chris was out of her mind in her love of Dennis Wilson. That guy was so freaking crazy let alone his drug and alcohol problem. He was roommates with Charles Manson a few years before the murders and was somewhat allegedly involved in that cult. :eek: I agree Chris, you were out of your mind.

[sanders8323]

I want to give a shout out to the alternate version of "Empire State." The original is good enough, but that outtake is a beast! It sounds like it could have come straight from Law and Order. At the behest of the record company at the time, I bet Lindsey was told to reign it in like so many other of his songs during that period. Mirage has his best production imo.

[aleuzzi]

I want to give a shout out to the alternate version of "Empire State." The original is good enough, but that outtake is a beast! It sounds like it could have come straight from Law and Order. At the behest of the record company at the time, I bet Lindsey was told to reign it in like so many other of his songs during that period. Mirage has his best production imo.

I agree the alternate version is better. Either version would have been welcome on LAW AND ORDER, which is one of my favorite solo albums by any member of FM. But I’m less ecstatic about being on MIRAGE. Still, it’s presence there gives MIRAGE an added level of quirky/strange—or as Robert Cristagu said “pleasantly weird sh-t” that rounds out the hits.

[HomerMcvie]

I agree the alternate version is better. Either version would have been welcome on LAW AND ORDER, which is one of my favorite solo albums by any member of FM. But I’m less ecstatic about being on MIRAGE. Still, it’s presence there gives MIRAGE an added level of quirky/strange—or as Robert Cristagu said “pleasantly weird sh-t” that rounds out the hits.

Law and Order is my favorite Lindsey album, for certain.

As far as favorite solo album, it would really be a toss up between all three of their first solo albums.

[sanders8323]

It would be awesome to have a deluxe re-issue of Law and Order and Go Insane with some outtakes/demo versions. That'll never happen though.

[jbrownsjr]

It would be awesome to have a deluxe re-issue of Law and Order and Go Insane with some outtakes/demo versions. That'll never happen though.

Never say never. But, God yes. Love those albums and that era

[aleuzzi]

Law and Order is my favorite Lindsey album, for certain.

As far as favorite solo album, it would really be a toss up between all three of their first solo albums.

Top three solo albums (for me) are:

OUT OF THE CRADLE
LAW AND ORDER
IN THE MEANTIME

The next three places go to:

BELLA DONNA
GIFT OF SCREWS
CHRISTINE MCVIE

[aleuzzi]

It is good and I smell what you are cooking. The guitar and beat midway does sound like Todd Rungren. You have very perceptive ears because few could have found that adjective to describe it.

The studio version is drowning in overdubs. I am ok with that because this was the Mac's extreme overdub album and they were all at peak vocal performance. When I first got Mirage, this song was my least favorite. Something about songs where the vocalist starts right away before or with the music turns me off. I never gave the song a fair chance. Over the years I re-discovered it and its such a hypnotic, bouncy, dreamy lovey, dovey, lullaby. I love Lindsey's guitar and Mick's drumming. I love they let them jam in the end but it ends too soon. This song gets beaten up on this board as always someone's least favorite songs. They need to listen again and rediscover it because its one of their best. On another note, the title is very literal. Yes, Chris was out of her mind in her love of Dennis Wilson. That guy was so freaking crazy let alone his drug and alcohol problem. He was roommates with Charles Manson a few years before the murders and was somewhat allegedly involved in that cult. :eek: I agree Chris, you were out of your mind.

By all accounts, Dennis felt guilty and was horrified by his casual affiliation with Manson. Like Dennis, many who saw themselves on the edges of Hollywood found Manson charismatic, compelling. For me, operating from the benefit of an historical perspective, Manson has always been beyond redemption, a figure more palpable and yet somehow enigmatic than, say, Hitler, whose unreal reality exists for me forever separated by an ocean and the gulf of decades.

But at the time, for Dennis and any number of naïve, disaffected drop outs, Manson represented a different way of knowing and being. What a nightmare! To wake from a charm spell and see an abyss.

[HomerMcvie]

Top three solo albums (for me) are:

OUT OF THE CRADLE
LAW AND ORDER
IN THE MEANTIME

The next three places go to:

BELLA DONNA
GIFT OF SCREWS
CHRISTINE MCVIE
Law and Order is SO CLOSELY related to Tusk. So f*cking quirky. I worship every note. People look at me like I'm crazy when I'm jamming out to it.

When I was hosting FM pool weekend parties a decade ago, I turned all the Chiffonheads to it, and especially Johnny Stew. They'd never heard it! :mad: I had them grunting in unison! :lol:

Even though I hate her now, Bella Donna is a work of art. It's right up there with Rumours and Hotel California, in my book. She apparently owes Jimmy Iovine HER SOUL(if she still has one, which is doubtful).

[aleuzzi]

Law and Order is SO CLOSELY related to Tusk. So f*cking quirky. I worship every note. People look at me like I'm crazy when I'm jamming out to it.

When I was hosting FM pool weekend parties a decade ago, I turned all the Chiffonheads to it, and especially Johnny Stew. They'd never heard it! :mad: I had them grunting in unison! :lol:

Even though I hate her now, Bella Donna is a work of art. It's right up there with Rumours and Hotel California, in my book. She apparently owes Jimmy Iovine HER SOUL(if she still has one, which is doubtful).

I actually dig LAW AND ORDER more than LB’s songs on TUSK, like way more. Love it, love it, love it.

[HomerMcvie]

I actually dig LAW AND ORDER more than LB’s songs on TUSK, like way more. Love it, love it, love it.

I never tire of it. Bwana, September Song, Love From Here...I love it all.

god, I was at the height of my fandom then. My kingdom for a time machine. For them! :p And me. :mad:

[Macfan4life]

Law and Order is SO CLOSELY related to Tusk. So f*cking quirky. I worship every note. People look at me like I'm crazy when I'm jamming out to it.

When I was hosting FM pool weekend parties a decade ago, I turned all the Chiffonheads to it, and especially Johnny Stew. They'd never heard it! :mad: I had them grunting in unison! :lol:

Even though I hate her now, Bella Donna is a work of art. It's right up there with Rumours and Hotel California, in my book. She apparently owes Jimmy Iovine HER SOUL(if she still has one, which is doubtful).
Yes Bella Donna is a masterpiece and almost as good as Rumours. It was made like a piece of art. Fantastic songs with fantastic musicians making music without regard of looking for pop radio success. Jimmy knew it was good but lacking any commercial songs which made him bring SDMHA which is a good song. But that point just shows how deep the album is in almost claiming the album is so good that it lacks commercial pop songs. All epic albums were made this way. From Led Zepplin albums to Hotel California. Everyone told the Eagles Hotel California is not a single because no radio station will have the patience to listen to such a long intro. They told the Eagles New Kid In Town is way too long for commercial success. I am sure Edge of 17 was seen as too unconventional and long for a lead single. Clearly it could have led off the album and even charted higher if it was the lead single.

Sadly Jimmy moved The Wild Heart much more towards the pop realm in caring how pop radio would hear and play it (chasing success). Some good songs but many of them watered down. Then, RAL, good grief what happened there :eek:
Bella Donna was a moment. A quick album before the Mac regrouped. It came at the perfect time when her voice was at her peak and before the drugs completely took over. I love that the Buckingham/Nicks bassist Tom Moncrieff plays on the album's SDMHA. I wonder why Tom's bassist (Ron Blair) did not play on the song. He boycotted the recording LOL? The stories of how Jimmy had to keep his working with Stevie a secret (from Tom) are funny.

[jbrownsjr]

I actually dig LAW AND ORDER more than LB’s songs on TUSK, like way more. Love it, love it, love it.

I agree. There's something really genuine about Law and Order compared to Tusk. Tusk to me is a little more forced. It just turns out that his forcing made for a very interesting album.

[aleuzzi]

I agree. There's something really genuine about Law and Order compared to Tusk. Tusk to me is a little more forced. It just turns out that his forcing made for a very interesting album.

Yes—his Tusk tunes are willful experiments. Intriguing ones, but very much engineered to produce a certain outcome or response: to shock, appall, and alienate the complacent.

LAW AND ORDER sounds like genuine creative play. The songs are goofy and warm and crazy—but this time not in quotation marks.

T

[DownOnRodeo]

I'm with latter-day Lindsey on Law and Order, who only put one of its tracks on his Solo Anthology and has dismissed it in some interviews. I just don't like the 1950s vibe. Other than Trouble, his solo legacy track that still gets airplay today, Shadow of the West is pretty and September is solid but a cover.

I love this review quoted on the album's Wikipedia page:
Robin Smith of Record Mirror panned the "miserable" album in a 1/5 star review, saying that it "sounds like the out takes of Mac's worst studio sessions delivered around Buckingham's reedy little voice."

[Macfan4life]

I'm with latter-day Lindsey on Law and Order, who only put one of its tracks on his Solo Anthology and has dismissed it in some interviews. I just don't like the 1950s vibe. Other than Trouble, his solo legacy track that still gets airplay today, Shadow of the West is pretty and September is solid but a cover.

I love this review quoted on the album's Wikipedia page:
Funny you say 50's vibe because many of his Mirage songs like Book of Love, and Oh Diane, and Cant Go Back have a 50s vibe IMHO. Maybe its just me but I always got that vibe.
Law And Order is a fairly good album but lots of experimentation. Trouble sticks out like a sore thumb. I like Johnny Stew. I love Lindsey songs where he jams his guitar. His playing does not offend me so I love songs like Come, I'm So Afraid Live 1980, Oh Well, Loving Cup, etc.

[HomerMcvie]

I'm with latter-day Lindsey on Law and Order, who only put one of its tracks on his Solo Anthology and has dismissed it in some interviews. I just don't like the 1950s vibe. Other than Trouble, his solo legacy track that still gets airplay today, Shadow of the West is pretty and September is solid but a cover.

I love this review quoted on the album's Wikipedia page:

Well, it's just plain WEIRD. And that's why I love it. I was smack dab in the middle of my fandom when it was released, and I LEARNED to love every note on it.

I forced it on my "Fleetwood Mac girls" a few years ago(FM pool party weekend), and they fell in love with it. Johnny Stew especially. We'd all crank it up, and STFU through all the grunting in the middle, so we could really get into it.

We may also have been drunk, but I digress...:laugh:

[DownOnRodeo]

Funny you say 50's vibe because many of his Mirage songs like Book of Love, and Oh Diane, and Cant Go Back have a 50s vibe IMHO. Maybe its just me but I always got that vibe.

Yes, totally agree. Even the album cover of Mirage, so retro. But Mirage finesses and evolves the sound. Or something.

No doubt L&O becomes more agreeable at bacchanals.
But there aren't enough libations and goodwill to make me fall in love with It Was I.

[Villavic]

Yes, totally agree. Even the album cover of Mirage, so retro. But Mirage finesses and evolves the sound. Or something.


I agree about the sound, but the cover... retro? In 1982? I don't see it. Can you explain it?

https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_9b294d27-63f4-47c5-8713-a63a96907410?wid=488&hei=488&fmt=pjpeg

[David]

I agree about the sound, but the cover... retro? In 1982? I don't see it. Can you explain it?
It’s a George Hurrell photo. Hurrell was a Hollywood glamour photographer in the big studio years between the wars.

I think Hurrell also shot the Law and Order cover, and a bunch of his Mirage outtakes are included in the album songbook.

[David]

I just don't like the 1950s vibe.

You haven’t been watching enough of those Fifties concert reunions during PBS pledge break, Joe.

Lindsey was definitely in his doo-wop years, and the phase, which was as big a deal to him as folk, lasted into the early Nineties, with “Surrender the Rain,” “Say We’ll Meet Again,” and “This Nearly Was Mine.” The styles in American pop before it officially became “Early Rock and Roll” must be a childhood nostalgia thing for him, immersed in the vocal stylists and doo-wop groups of the mid and late Fifties—because those styles, personalized, are all over his catalogue. I think it must remind him of days with his dad and brothers, several of whom he lost young. Innocence regained, perhaps (the theme of his first solo album)? But even more than the personal connection is the musical connection: he is fascinated with the many styles of popular music through swing and big band to the small jazz combo sound (“Love from Here, Love from There”) to doo-wop and beyond. What he’s done with all these styles may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but I get a kick out of it — even when he’s deliberately singing like Frankie Lymon or the Jive Bombers.

[DownOnRodeo]

That in addition to the somewhat retro looking album photo (thanks for the trivia, David!), the font on the Mirage cover is in the art deco mode, which is also the style of architecture of the Empire State Building.

<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/DWRwjZ4/mirage-font.jpg" alt="mirage-font" border="0"></a>

And that the pattern of Christine's blouse on the cover consists of musical notes.

[DownOnRodeo]

I agree about the sound, but the cover... retro? In 1982? I don't see it. Can you explain it? [/IMG]

I don't have the proper knowledge or words, but the image itself looks sort of glowy and softened to me, like a hand-coloured daguerrotype or something. Also somewhat retro hairstyles and clothes to some extent. Some elements of the composition as well (the dancing pose, like an old-school debutante ball; and Stevie's pose evokes a classical painting to me, perhaps augmented by the black background).

[bombaysaffires]

Yes Bella Donna is a masterpiece and almost as good as Rumours. It was made like a piece of art. Fantastic songs with fantastic musicians making music without regard of looking for pop radio success. Jimmy knew it was good but lacking any commercial songs which made him bring SDMHA which is a good song. But that point just shows how deep the album is in almost claiming the album is so good that it lacks commercial pop songs. All epic albums were made this way. From Led Zepplin albums to Hotel California. Everyone told the Eagles Hotel California is not a single because no radio station will have the patience to listen to such a long intro. They told the Eagles New Kid In Town is way too long for commercial success. I am sure Edge of 17 was seen as too unconventional and long for a lead single. Clearly it could have led off the album and even charted higher if it was the lead single.

Sadly Jimmy moved The Wild Heart much more towards the pop realm in caring how pop radio would hear and play it (chasing success). Some good songs but many of them watered down. Then, RAL, good grief what happened there :eek:
Bella Donna was a moment. A quick album before the Mac regrouped. It came at the perfect time when her voice was at her peak and before the drugs completely took over. I love that the Buckingham/Nicks bassist Tom Moncrieff plays on the album's SDMHA. I wonder why Tom's bassist (Ron Blair) did not play on the song. He boycotted the recording LOL? The stories of how Jimmy had to keep his working with Stevie a secret (from Tom) are funny.


You can actually blame Stevie and her own wild heart for the changes on The Wild Heart. She started really pushing back on Jimmy during that album, and wasn't as nervous about 'what if I'm not successful on my own' during the making of WH like she was during making of BD. She was far, far more humble and willing to take others' ideas during BD. Once her ego got all that solo success.....watch out. And her coke intake went up as well. She started leveraging her solo success within FM to get what she wanted and also in her solo career.

[bombaysaffires]

It’s a George Hurrell photo. Hurrell was a Hollywood glamour photographer in the big studio years between the wars.

I think Hurrell also shot the Law and Order cover, and a bunch of his Mirage outtakes are included in the album songbook.

That Law and Order cover photo is one of the best ever taken of Lindsey, in his most gorgeous years.

[jbrownsjr]

I love both Mirage and Law and Order album covers.

[michelej1]

That Law and Order cover photo is one of the best ever taken of Lindsey, in his most gorgeous years.

I don’t think it looks like him though.

[michelej1]

I love both Mirage and Law and Order album covers.

I love Mirage and the little old lady hands and Stevie being beheaded in a past life and everything about it. The whole ménage a trois of it all.

[DownOnRodeo]

I love Mirage and the little old lady hands and Stevie being beheaded in a past life and everything about it. The whole ménage a trois of it all.

<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/6n59x7r/menage.jpg" alt="menage" border="0"></a>

[DownOnRodeo]

Yikes. That turned out spookier than even I intended.

[HomerMcvie]

<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/6n59x7r/menage.jpg" alt="menage" border="0"></a>

I can't stop laughing.

It's like seeing the Stevie of present, and future.

[jbrownsjr]

I can't stop laughing.

It's like seeing the Stevie of present, and future.

Stevie is angrier than that lady.

[HomerMcvie]

Stevie is angrier than that lady.

And will not be trifled with!:laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

And will not be trifled with!:laugh:

Buckingfired