Do we really want a new Fleetwood Mac album?

[ChickenStu]

There's been quite a bit of talk about this one. Obviously the Mac are my all time favourite and of course I'd get the CD if/when they do it... but does it really need to be done?

I read some comments by Mick Jagger not long ago where he said the Stones probably aren't going to do any new studio albums. He said when a band does a new album they usually devote the majority of any gigs afterward to material from that. Now that's cool for a band that hasn't been around as long and doesn't quite have that same status... but with a band like the Stones - people at the gigs want to hear the old classics. Stuff that they know and can sing along to. Jagger I guess finds that a little dissapointing - but still wants to please the fans.

I'm wondering if it's the same with Fleetwood Mac. OK there was a tiny bit of new material on the 2013 tour, but that was literally only one or two tracks from Extended Play. Plus they sandwiched them bang slam in the middle of the gig between the old classics. The audience WERE receptive (and seemed to be quite happy to sing along to Sad Angel) because I'm guessing it was just one or two songs and not overpowering.

Now personally - if the Mac do release a big new CD I'd want it to be a live album of the 2013 tour (maybe with a CD of Extended Play as a little bonus). That would be a package I could get excited about because I'll know that I'm going to love it. I wouldn't have that guarantee with a new studio album.

Then maybe when another big world tour gears up just do another EP. Extended Play II if you like. Then for that new tour do another couple of tracks off that.

An occasional 4 track EP through iTunes is I think the best way for the band to get a bit of new material out there every now and then.

What do you guys think?

[On Ice]

If they were to take a back to basics, from the ground up approach and work on the album as a band, absolutely it would be great to have a new album. I cringe a bit at the idea of Stevie "sending" them some tapes and dropping by near the finish to slap on some vocals and having zero part of the creative process. Also, the band would need a producer who "gets" them, Dashut and Calliat come to mind :) and take them in a direction that upholds the quality of the work through the process and keeps the egos in check. Otherwise, we would be in for more bloat and inconsistent work which would end up on the shelf or taking up i-pod space. Oh yeah, did I mention not to be attempted without Ms McVie in the room? :wavey:

[FutureGames71]

If they were to take a back to basics, from the ground up approach and work on the album as a band, absolutely it would be great to have a new album. I cringe a bit at the idea of Stevie "sending" them some tapes and dropping by near the finish to slap on some vocals and having zero part of the creative process. Also, the band would need a producer who "gets" them, Dashut and Calliat come to mind :) and take them in a direction that upholds the quality of the work through the process and keeps the egos in check. Otherwise, we would be in for more bloat and inconsistent work which would end up on the shelf or taking up i-pod space. Oh yeah, did I mention not to be attempted without Ms McVie in the room? :wavey:

I completely agree! A fresh batch of songs from scratch would be a refreshing change of pace rather than a collection of recycled songs from past projects, which essentially made up Say You Will. And now since its been confirmed that Christine will be rejoing the group, that could very well reinvigorate the rest of the band and indeed bring back a group sense of work ethic.

[On Ice]

It would be great to have the band flesh out songs like You Can't Fix This and give us something great. One devil reference is enough to create a hook, let's try some great metaphor to bring the song to greatness....Ms Nicks will need to be open to a just a little feedback on grammar and editing to get her writing back on track and Mr Buckingham will need to bring himself to realize it's us who need to like his experiments. Christine will just need to be herself :) and we'll get that elusive great album we've been waiting for since '79

[elle]

It would be great to have the band flesh out songs like You Can't Fix This and give us something great. One devil reference is enough to create a hook, let's try some great metaphor to bring the song to greatness....Ms Nicks will need to be open to a just a little feedback on grammar and editing to get her writing back on track and Mr Buckingham will need to bring himself to realize it's us who need to like his experiments. Christine will just need to be herself :) and we'll get that elusive great album we've been waiting for since '79

who are these us you are talking about? FM fandom is very fragmented. there are enough of us who LOVE his experiments. wish he'd go back to them. you all convinced him that with the Mac he has to just run the formula into the ground instead. :p

(which is fine, he just has to get that mac album out of the way and get back to us solo.)

[On Ice]

That's certainly a good point Elle and Lindsey's experimenting has certainly worked for him in some instances, Tusk for example by and large, but my main point is that quality will need to prevail in the vein of an Out of the Cradle vs inconsistency that's plagued some of his and Stevie's other work. I personally don't care about formula for the ~Mac, I just want something really good to listen to.

[ChickenStu]

As for Buckingham's experimental stuff... some of it works and some of it doesn't. But by the same token... isn't it good that the guy wants to push the envelope a bit? Wouldn't it be a little bit boring if the guy had just did the same thing over and over for the last 40 years?

I kinda dig Tusk by the way.

[jbrownsjr]

I honestly want Lindsey to write exactly how he wants. I just want them to have cohesion and magic on the same mic. Certainly don't want cut and paste. I hope he does experiment, that's when the magic happens.

[ChickenStu]

OK, here's a bit of an "out there" thought that I think a lot of you are not going to like. But since Christine McVie is rejoining restoring the classic Rumours line up, and Rumours STILL makes headlines years after it was released... maybe a new album could be Rumours Part II?

A full on sequel to that album, where the personal story of the band is updated to where it is now? Offer some kind of closure to some of the stuff that was happening on that album? A DIRECT response? It would be a hell of a difficult trick to pull off - but boy I'd respect them for at least taking up the challenge.

Please don't flame me for that... I'm just trying to think outside the box a little bit here...

[aleuzzi]

As long as we get at least four new Christine tunes, I will be thrilled. I wold prefer six, but, hey, let's not get greedy. I am betting Stevie's involvement will be more substantial than it has for Tango or Say You Will or the EP. Now that Christine is aboard again (Thanks Mick for giving the official nod) Stevie will probably want to be more directly involved.

[Ulpian]

I am all for this. I thought SYW was too long and, frankly, one of the reasons I love The Mac is the blend of the three singer/writers with John and Mick, which I really felt was largely absent. I like a majority of the recent EP tracks.

I don't care about formula or experimentation. I could not care less about their studio methodology. What I want is for these five very talented people to work together and to produce some new music, and then get out there and let us hear it. A new live package of some sort would be great too, if only because I don't know if/when I would get to see them perform.

[TrueFaith77]

OK, here's a bit of an "out there" thought that I think a lot of you are not going to like. But since Christine McVie is rejoining restoring the classic Rumours line up, and Rumours STILL makes headlines years after it was released... maybe a new album could be Rumours Part II?

A full on sequel to that album, where the personal story of the band is updated to where it is now? Offer some kind of closure to some of the stuff that was happening on that album? A DIRECT response? It would be a hell of a difficult trick to pull off - but boy I'd respect them for at least taking up the challenge.

Please don't flame me for that... I'm just trying to think outside the box a little bit here...

I have been saying this for years. I agree. Rumours II would be brilliant.

[louielouie2000]

As for Buckingham's experimental stuff... some of it works and some of it doesn't. But by the same token... isn't it good that the guy wants to push the envelope a bit? Wouldn't it be a little bit boring if the guy had just did the same thing over and over for the last 40 years?

I kinda dig Tusk by the way.

You'll soon discover that Tusk is the most beloved Mac album by us fellow hardcore fans. Mick himself has even agreed.

OK, here's a bit of an "out there" thought that I think a lot of you are not going to like. But since Christine McVie is rejoining restoring the classic Rumours line up, and Rumours STILL makes headlines years after it was released... maybe a new album could be Rumours Part II?

A full on sequel to that album, where the personal story of the band is updated to where it is now? Offer some kind of closure to some of the stuff that was happening on that album? A DIRECT response? It would be a hell of a difficult trick to pull off - but boy I'd respect them for at least taking up the challenge.

Please don't flame me for that... I'm just trying to think outside the box a little bit here...

You're probably on to something. Say You Will was sort of the spiritual successor to Tusk... and the band hasn't seemed satisfied with the results. In my opinion it wasn't as artistically successful because of Christine's absence. It needed her counterpoint. Extended Play was a return to Lindsey being super conservative & pop-oriented. Christine has mentioned in the press that the batch of songs she has recently recorded are very much in the vein of her classic 1970s sound. So signs are pointing to a new album being a familiar, approachable style.

[Ulpian]

You'll soon discover that Tusk is the most beloved Mac album by us fellow hardcore fans. Mick himself has even agreed.

*a majority* of the hardcores. This hardcore has never been too enamoured.

[MoonSister75]

I don't think I would be such an obsessed Fleetwood Mac fan if Tusk didn't exist. I love Tusk.

[vivfox]

I really want a new Fleetwood Mac album more than I want a solo album from any of the 3 songwriters. I love those 3 voices together and I want more of it. More, more, MORE.

[WildHearted]

I'd take a new Fleetwood Mac album over a new solo album any day of the week, honestly. I think even at their worst, they're better together.

[WildHearted]

Extended Play was a return to Lindsey being super conservative & pop-oriented. Christine has mentioned in the press that the batch of songs she has recently recorded are very much in the vein of her classic 1970s sound. So signs are pointing to a new album being a familiar, approachable style.

Yes, it very much seems that way. I think the production choices on a new album will either make or break it though. Even if they have nice classic sounding songs written, if they're not arranged/produced right... it can be disastrous. See: Without You.

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, it very much seems that way. I think the production choices on a new album will either make or break it though. Even if they have nice classic sounding songs written, if they're not arranged/produced right... it can be disastrous. See: Without You.

We've had one album in 15 years. I would die to think they would end on a, SYW note. ewwwwwwwwww...

Anyway... yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:blob1:

[Dex]

OK, here's a bit of an "out there" thought that I think a lot of you are not going to like. But since Christine McVie is rejoining restoring the classic Rumours line up, and Rumours STILL makes headlines years after it was released... maybe a new album could be Rumours Part II?

A full on sequel to that album, where the personal story of the band is updated to where it is now? Offer some kind of closure to some of the stuff that was happening on that album? A DIRECT response? It would be a hell of a difficult trick to pull off - but boy I'd respect them for at least taking up the challenge.

Please don't flame me for that... I'm just trying to think outside the box a little bit here...

I'm not sure the concept of Rumours II really makes very much sense. Rumours worked so wonderfully well in part because it came about organically. It was emotionally-charged singer-songwriters writing excellent confessional pieces, and the "Rumours" theme was tagged on after the fact. Going the other way, and having a theme before content, doesn't seem likely to work. Our writers are still writing confessional songs, but about each other? I mean, their relationships are really as millionaire-colleagues, before anything else, these days. They mostly see each other for business. Doesn't make for very compelling songwriting. Any attempt would just feel forced. And I think the media might frame Rumours II as commercial pandering and further milking of past glories. And I'd probably agree.

That said, it'd probably garner more mass interest than an album by any other name, at this stage.

To answer the original question, I would like a new album from the classic lineup, for sure. I loved Say You Will and hated the EP. So it could go either way for me. I'm not sure what impact Christine's presence will have on the production at all, but I'd like to find out. If it's bad, it's bad. And it'll be forgotten. It's not like the band really has anything left to prove. They'll keep their oldies-based live set and continue to command insane ticket prices, worst case scenario, and we'll have lost nothing. Might as well have a crack at it. :)

[aprilsrain]

Tusk II! :D :D :D Spend a million or two making it and experiment in the studio!

[MoonSister75]

I read some comments by Mick Jagger not long ago where he said the Stones probably aren't going to do any new studio albums. He said when a band does a new album they usually devote the majority of any gigs afterward to material from that. Now that's cool for a band that hasn't been around as long and doesn't quite have that same status... but with a band like the Stones - people at the gigs want to hear the old classics. Stuff that they know and can sing along to. Jagger I guess finds that a little dissapointing - but still wants to please the fans.



excuses excuses.... :rolleyes:

This is exactly what makes Fleetwood Mac so special - they are still making music after all this time. Ok they could have done more in the last 15 years -but they've had solo careers too, with new music, which has kept many fans happy. One of the reasons I am so into this band is that you are never sure what's going to happen next. With the Stones you know its going to be all the oldies, and as much as I love some of those, it doesn't keep me interested in them. I'm over the moon that FM will be making a new album, with Christine, no matter how it turns out.

[I'msoAfraid95]

I really want a new Fleetwood Mac album more than I want a solo album from any of the 3 songwriters. I love those 3 voices together and I want more of it. More, more, MORE.


This is my stance as well.


I want a combination if Rumours and Tusk, if that's possible.

[WildHearted]

I want a combination if Rumours and Tusk, if that's possible.

It's not. :lol:

[AnthonyMI]

Recipe for a great Fleetwood Mac album.

1. Take 1 part Christine's sweet breathy upbeat and cheerful love songs
2. Take 1 part mystical, semi elusive lyrically yet witchy and bitchy lyrics from Stevie.
3. Take 1 Part Lindsey's wacky.


Mix well.

3. Tone down Lindsey's wacky with Christine's sensibilities so it is cutting edge but approachable
4. Tone down Stevie's elusive garbage lyrics with some Lindsey feedback and improve them till they SHINE.
5. Add some Mick and John
6. Ban The use of more than two sets of keyboard parts, two sets of guitar parts and a bass and drum part and NOTHING that plugs in unless it is a Hammond B3 organ or Electric Guitar.


Mix well.


7. Make sure that 2/3rds of the album have three part harmony.
8. Ban Waddy, and "the Girls" from the Studio.
9. Ban Sheryl Crow

Shake. and Bake at 375 for 3 months.

[chiliD]

I want a combination if Rumours and Tusk, if that's possible.

Sure...it would be called Tumours


I'd like it to be a cross between Then Play On & Mystery To Me, but with Welch gone, THAT ain't gonna happen, either.

They should just record their new album (with Christine's involvement & input)..just "do what they do" and I'm sure it'll be just fine...and worthy of a final statement by Fleetwood Mac...then ride on into the sunset, with "Albatross" playing as a loop in the background.

[I'msoAfraid95]

Sure...it would be called Tumours




With John's recent bout with cancer....:lol:( ok distasteful)

What I meant is that I want some experimentation, but also that recognizable FM sound

[WildHearted]

With John's recent bout with cancer....:lol:( ok distasteful)

What I meant is that I want some experimentation, but also that recognizable FM sound

What is there even left to experiment with at this point, though?

Idk, my hope would be that they wouldn't try to overthink all of the songs and would just let them be natural and organic and whatever they end up being. I feel like when they try purposefully to be left-field or they try to be FM-y or commercial it ends up sucking.

[Villavic]

Why not?
I don't expect a new Tusk, a new Rumours or Tango, but a fine work of those FIVE would be cool.

[Christopher]

YES! A new record please! A great FM record has been toooo long overdue!! With Chris on record as having sent Lindsey some new material, it really does sound like a new record is most likely in the works - which would be amazing news! Stevie probably has given Lindsey some songs/demos as well. However, my only hope is that all three songwriters are given EQUAL songs for the 1st time, instead of the 3 Stevie songs to Chris' 4 and Lindsey's 5 - SYW being the exception! But since Stevie holds much, MUCH more power in the band since the 80s, i'd be really surprised if she is given the short end of the stick.

A 12 song record w/ 4 songs from each (released this year) sounds about perfect to me with a "Tango" meets "Rumours" production value. And please toss out the disappointing production of "Extended Play" - I really expected more from Mitchell Froom, but Lindsey co-produced as well:cool: . Bring in Calliat or Dashut, I now appreciate what brilliance (sound engineering) each brought to the table, to the sound of the first 5 BN era FM records. Bottom line is they need an amazing & objective sound engineer & co-producer. Hell, bring in Dave Stewart & his team- "In Your Dreams" sounded pretty amazing!

[mylittledemon]

Can't wait to hear the 5 of them together again... :blob1:

[gssmith]

Hell yea we want a new album! Im pretty sure we will see one before a tour. I like the idea of a cross between tusk and rumours. That's kind of what SYW was to me, some classic sounding stuff next to something crazy. I really liked the EP. I love the three of them together more than solo even though Stevie has had some great solo moments. 4 from each writer would be nice. And yea ban all back up singers! I want the three of them Harmonizing. Some duets would be nice. But what ever they put out I'm sure it will be great, what ever they want to do. They are my favorite band for a reason.

[louielouie2000]

What is there even left to experiment with at this point, though?

Idk, my hope would be that they wouldn't try to overthink all of the songs and would just let them be natural and organic and whatever they end up being. I feel like when they try purposefully to be left-field or they try to be FM-y or commercial it ends up sucking.

I get what you're saying. But what I thought was seriously missing from Extended Play was some of Lindsey's quirkiness. The whole thing was just so middle of the road. Bland. I think Fleetwood Mac is at it's best when Lindsey is a little bit zany, Stevie is kooky/mystical, and Christine bridges them with her breezy pop influence. I really think Lindsey will bring on his A-game with Christine's inclusion, though. I think she's able to challenge Lindsey in a way no one else can.

YES! A new record please! A great FM record has been toooo long overdue!! With Chris on record as having sent Lindsey some new material, it really does sound like a new record is most likely in the works - which would be amazing news! Stevie probably has given Lindsey some songs/demos as well. However, my only hope is that all three songwriters are given EQUAL songs for the 1st time, instead of the 3 Stevie songs to Chris' 4 and Lindsey's 5 - SYW being the exception! But since Stevie holds much, MUCH more power in the band since the 80s, i'd be really surprised if she is given the short end of the stick.

A 12 song record w/ 4 songs from each (released this year) sounds about perfect to me with a "Tango" meets "Rumours" production value. And please toss out the disappointing production of "Extended Play" - I really expected more from Mitchell Froom, but Lindsey co-produced as well:cool: . Bring in Calliat or Dashut, I now appreciate what brilliance (sound engineering) each brought to the table, to the sound of the first 5 BN era FM records. Bottom line is they need an amazing & objective sound engineer & co-producer. Hell, bring in Dave Stewart & his team- "In Your Dreams" sounded pretty amazing!

I used to disagree with the thought of going back to Ken and/or Richard. But no one has ever been able to produce this band better. I haven't heard much of what Richard has done lately, but Ken's work on his daughter Colbie's albums is just the absolute best of what was so good about the classic Fleetwood Mac sound.

Regarding the equal distribution of songs... at this point, if does end up uneven, I think it will be a mutual decision. Like you pointed out, Stevie carries a weight these days that she never did in Fleetwood Mac's prime. I think the number of songs she brings to the table will ultimately be her own decision. She didn't want to contribute anything to Extended Play, so she didn't. Equal distribution would be nice, but I want this album to be organic, too. So if that means Christine gets one additional song (or whatever), then so be it.

[sanders8323]

Speaking of the Mac doing a "Rumours II," isn't that what they tried to do with Mirage? That album sort of felt like a forced Rumours (though there were moments of brilliance), and you just can't force something like Rumours. That's why Rumours worked so well, because it was so natural. They just need to go in as a band and do what feels right at the moment. Don't over think it.

[jbrownsjr]

Speaking of the Mac doing a "Rumours II," isn't that what they tried to do with Mirage? That album sort of felt like a forced Rumours (though there were moments of brilliance), and you just can't force something like Rumours. That's why Rumours worked so well, because it was so natural. They just need to go in as a band and do what feels right at the moment. Don't over think it.

Mirage was like a Buckingham/McVie album to me with some great Stevie tunes. The album to me sounded like a band. The harmonies are amazing, and the production was brilliant. Mirage gets a bad rap.

[CADreaming]

I want a new album, but I am afraid of it at the same time. I don't want to hate it or be disappointed.

[BLY]

I will take a Fleetwood Mac album over three new solo CDs in 2014. As I love their solo efforts let's get those three voices together again.

[FM77]

*a majority* of the hardcores. This hardcore has never been too enamoured.

Tusk is a masterpiece.

[chriskisn]

Yes but not with Christine...:sorry:

[jbrownsjr]

Yes but not with Christine...:sorry:

LOL!!! I was waiting for your response. :wavey:

[WildHearted]

Tusk is a masterpiece.

Hey Lindsey. :wavey:

[CADreaming]

Hey Lindsey. :wavey:

:lol::lol::lol:

[SteveMacD]

If you want another Stevie-Lindsey collaboration, THE single greatest bit of news is Christine's return. That's the only way it happens at this point.

[secondhandchain]

Let's do some writing together guys. Take some of your songs and meld them together a la The Chain. See what happened there? I don't want a throw Christine's vocals on Lindsey's songs. I want a real album. This is your last shot leave something behind that is great as your farewell material. Say you will had it's moments, but I have listened to it in YEARS. That tells you something right there.

[SteveMacD]

Let's do some writing together guys. Take some of your songs and meld them together a la The Chain. See what happened there? I don't want a throw Christine's vocals on Lindsey's songs. I want a real album.
I think they do a patchwork album, a 60 date tour, then go into the studio for the full-on collaboration.

This is your last shot leave something behind that is great as your farewell material.
Says who?

Say you will had it's moments, but I have listened to it in YEARS. That tells you something right there.
Not really.

[nicole21290]

Let's do some writing together guys. Take some of your songs and meld them together a la The Chain. See what happened there? I don't want a throw Christine's vocals on Lindsey's songs. I want a real album. This is your last shot leave something behind that is great as your farewell material. Say you will had it's moments, but I have listened to it in YEARS. That tells you something right there.

I listen to the entirety of SYW more than the whole of the White Album (prefer a lot of the live versions of songs on there), Mirage or Tango. That tells you something right there... ;) See, doesn't really work as an objective justification on the matter.

But yes, I want a strong, collaborative, harmony-filled, eclectic, natural-sounding album. We'll see, though. :D

[Kubrick2788]

I think with Christine back in it could be time for The Dealer to become more than a demo. They have someone who can funk it up on the keyboard again. Plus, the slower style fits Stevie's abilities well at the moment. Excited about some 70s style Christine songs again. If anything from EP goes on it should probably be Sad Angel with all three (and maybe a version closer to the live one-more electric?) or Miss Fantasy. The other two are so much BN or Lindsey solo material.

[SpyNote]

I have been saying this for years. I agree. Rumours II would be brilliant.

YES! I think this is long overdue. Let's get back to Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, and Mirage, the classic Fleetwood Mac sound with great hooks and rich harmonies.

[redbird]

If it's good, then yeah sure. If it's not so good, then honestly it wouldn't bum me out that much. I think it's more important for them to be happy than for them to preserve or salvage the brand, I don't care about that stuff very much. They'll always have what they already have.

Ideally though, if they can have some earthier production, some tighter lyrics, and more of a full-band collaborative feel then I think I could dig it. What hasn't worked for me is when Stevie tries to be Chris, when Lindsey goes crazy with his toys, when they calculate too much. A modern classic would be great, but a listenable, respectable effort would be good enough.

I can tell you I am 90% more interested in a new album with Chris around.

[ChickenStu]

You'll soon discover that Tusk is the most beloved Mac album by us fellow hardcore fans. Mick himself has even agreed.

It's probably my second favourite album by them. I was listening to it last night as it goes. Some great stuff on it. Doesn't quite eclipse Rumours for me - but it still has the goods.

[MoonSister75]

Tusk is a masterpiece.

It really is. :cool:

[Angie1980]

IMO I wouldn't consider myself a FM fan if I didn't want them to put out a new album. Sure there is a risk that a new album would not be awesome or a new masterpiece. The EP didn't do a whole lot for me. But I rater have them put out new material and for it to be mediocre than for them not to do it and potentially missing out on a new masterpiece or simply a great new album.

[Fannymac]

I think it's the smart thing to do.....with John on the mend, the last thing he needs is to be travelling from city to city! Best thing for him in the next few months would be to stay close to home, in one spot.....recording an album would allow this. BUT.....I think they should put a time limit on recording....two or three months TOPS!

[Artemis]

Yes please, I would really love a new Fleetwood Mac album. Their harmonies still sound beautiful together. The EP was practically crying out for Christine's voice on Sad Angel and Miss Fantasy, imagine how fantastic a full album with all three of them on top form again would sound?

[Macfanforever]

A big yes for new music but not take ions of time to record it.

[secondhandchain]

[QUOTE=SteveMacD;1117143]I think they do a patchwork album, a 60 date tour, then go into the studio for the full-on collaboration.


Says who?


Says me! Ha Let's face it, by the time they record a new album and tour and then take time off, they are going to be really up there. Stevie's voice is sounding like sandpaper and ain't gonna get any better. Same with the other voices. That's just my opinion.

[RockawayBlind]

I'm wondering if it's the same with Fleetwood Mac.



LOL! Surely you jest. Twenty-five studio albums by the stones vs. five by the "Rumours" lineup, six if you include "Say You Will." I've said it before: FM's output since 1974 has been nothing short of miserly and pathetic. To compare it to the Stones is way off base.

[BlueDenimLamp]

LOL! Surely you jest. Twenty-five studio albums by the stones vs. five by the "Rumours" lineup, six if you include "Say You Will." I've said it before: FM's output since 1974 has been nothing short of miserly and pathetic. To compare it to the Stones is way off base.

The Stones never let themselves be defined by one record like FM did...

[TrueFaith77]

I just hope there is another documentary. :lol:

[SteveMacD]

The Stones never let themselves be defined by one record like FM did...
They also never had one sell that many copies.

[RockawayBlind]

If they were to take a back to basics, from the ground up approach and work on the album as a band, absolutely it would be great to have a new album. I cringe a bit at the idea of Stevie "sending" them some tapes and dropping by near the finish to slap on some vocals and having zero part of the creative process. Also, the band would need a producer who "gets" them, Dashut and Calliat come to mind :) and take them in a direction that upholds the quality of the work through the process and keeps the egos in check. Otherwise, we would be in for more bloat and inconsistent work which would end up on the shelf or taking up i-pod space. Oh yeah, did I mention not to be attempted without Ms McVie in the room? :wavey:

I agree completely.

[RockawayBlind]

Ms Nicks will need to be open to a just a little feedback on grammar and editing to get her writing back on track and Mr Buckingham will need to bring himself to realize it's us who need to like his experiments.

Completely agree, but it's not going to happen because a long time ago she decided she's a big star and everything she touches "these days has turned to gold."

[RockawayBlind]

That's certainly a good point Elle and Lindsey's experimenting has certainly worked for him in some instances, Tusk for example by and large, but my main point is that quality will need to prevail in the vein of an Out of the Cradle vs inconsistency that's plagued some of his and Stevie's other work. I personally don't care about formula for the ~Mac, I just want something really good to listen to.

Out of the Cradle still stands out as a coherent, beautiful work. It's Lindsey's masterpiece. However, I think UTS and SWS are pretty consistent, though not quite as brilliant. GOS suffers from the same thing SYW does - ups and downs in production most likely caused by long time gaps between writing, arranging and producing the songs. If UTS suffers in inconsistency, it is when toward the end Lindsey shoves in the two GOS songs, which have a different sound and kinda, but not really, fit into the overall collection of tracks.

[RockawayBlind]

I have been saying this for years. I agree. Rumours II would be brilliant.

Isn't that what Mirage was?

[TrueFaith77]

No. :shrug:

[RockawayBlind]

I loved Say You Will and hated the EP.

That's interesting. Lindsey said it was the best work the band after did right after SYW came out. Then about a year or two ago he said it was inconsistent. He must have been reading the critiques I wrote about SYW from day one, making that very point. ;)

Now, in trying to compensate for that inconsistency, he offered songs to the band for the EP that actually went in a diametrically opposed direction from his brilliant songs of SYW, in favor of pablum. To me, SYW is brilliant even with songs like Bleed to Love Her and Steal Your Heart Away, which, though poppy, are still brilliant and edgy in their own right.

Where SYW fails is in Lindsey's inability to give some of Stevie's songs the right treatment. In fairness, I don't think Silver Girl could have been saved, nor do I think the atrocious crimes against grammar in Smile at You could have been fixed by Lindsey without Stevie's consent. Sure, Thrown Down, SYW and a couple of other songs were pretty good, but the 80s sheen of Running Through the Garden, the inexcusable self-absorption of Illume and the nefarious crimes agains the English language of Smile at You are hard to overlook. Tell you what: Pull those three songs and Come out of the mix, and I see if you don't have a terrific album.

[RockawayBlind]

The Stones never let themselves be defined by one record like FM did...

Damn right!

[RockawayBlind]

No. :shrug:

Uh, actually, yes. Even Lindsey has admitted they were trying to get back to the Rumours sound with Mirage. It's just that the passion and the quality of the songwriting wasn't there. For songwriting, the standout is Gypsy. But there is some beautifully produced pop music as well: Eyes of the World, Hold Me and some others.

[elle]

do you want a new album from your favorite band? of course, what would be the reason not to? because it may not be great? who cares! better than nothing. they will always be defined by rumours (they seem to insist on it!), whether or not other albums are great or not.

[RockawayBlind]

do you want a new album from your favorite band? of course, what would be the reason not to? because it may not be great? who cares! better than nothing. they will always be defined by rumours (they seem to insist on it!), whether or not other albums are great or not.

Eh, I'm not even sure FM is my favorite band anymore. I'd have to give the honors to Cracker and the Stones at this point.

[Macfanforever]

I just hope there is another documentary. :lol:

I agree and hope we dont have to wait for ages until it gets released.

[jbrownsjr]

do you want a new album from your favorite band? of course, what would be the reason not to? because it may not be great? who cares! better than nothing. they will always be defined by rumours (they seem to insist on it!), whether or not other albums are great or not.

I don't think Tusk, Mirage, or Tango sound anything like Rumours.

[elle]

Eh, I'm not even sure FM is my favorite band anymore. I'd have to give the honors to Cracker and the Stones at this point.

well they certainly never were and are still not MY favorite band. :lol: (and i have competing interests for a certain member's time.)

you like Cracker?? had no clue.

[elle]

I don't think Tusk, Mirage, or Tango sound anything like Rumours.

who said they did? :confused:

[jbrownsjr]

who said they did? :confused:

I wasn't saying you did. I was hoping they don't try to sound like Rumours. All the other albums with the 5 seem to organically take on their own sound. I'm hoping that's what happens with the new album.

[CADreaming]

do you want a new album from your favorite band? of course, what would be the reason not to? because it may not be great? who cares! better than nothing. they will always be defined by rumours (they seem to insist on it!), whether or not other albums are great or not.

Because I would hate for their final album to suck. That's my reason, but I will probably like it. So...

[jbrownsjr]

Because I would hate for their final album to suck. That's my reason, but I will probably like it. So...

I will die if it sucks!!

[elle]

I wasn't saying you did. I was hoping they don't try to sound like Rumours. All the other albums with the 5 seem to organically take on their own sound. I'm hoping that's what happens with the new album.

my point is - it doesn't matter. new album is better than no album, whether it sucks or not. it won't do anything to their legacy, whether it's good or bad. well a really good one like last Johnny Cash one may add to it. but sucky one would detract. :shrug: so i see it as a win-win, as long as they finish it before the summer.

[elle]

my point is - it doesn't matter. new album is better than no album, whether it sucks or not. it won't do anything to their legacy, whether it's good or bad. well a really good one like last Johnny Cash one may add to it. but sucky one would detract. :shrug: so i see it as a win-win, as long as they finish it before the summer.

*would not detract.

[RockawayBlind]

well they certainly never were and are still not MY favorite band. :lol: (and i have competing interests for a certain member's time.)

you like Cracker?? had no clue.

In fact, I will be seeing Cracker on Friday. I have no idea what the setlist will be and I expect the band will play one or two new songs because they are working on their next album. I expect some banter from the stage, but I have no idea what David Lowery will say.

And that's as it should be... ;)

[chriskisn]

LOL!!! I was waiting for your response. :wavey:

Oh dear I'm getting predictable in my old age...

[jbrownsjr]

Oh dear I'm getting predictable in my old age...

You and me both. :lol:

[Matt Lucas]

Hello all---

Crowded House is my all-time favorite band, so I’m pretty excited about former CH singer Neil Finn’s upcoming solo album. I’m also a Springsteen and Rosanne Cash fan, so their new albums have my attention, too.

But the prospect of Christine rejoining the band and a new Fleetwood Mac record featuring the RUMOURS line-up takes the cake. It’s hard not to have unreasonably high expectations for this project.

While a tour would be nice, an album is the main thing for me. Concerts come and go and are mostly forgotten. Rarely are concerts by rock bands works of art. Entertaining? Sure. Moving? Absolutely. Memorable? Often. Art? Not usually. Albums are art, and I truly think these band members have at least one more great work in them, collectively.

The key, I think, will be Lindsey and Christine working together and balancing each other. Stevie will always be Stevie---she’ll bring in at least one great song and probably a few other very good ones. Mick and John will continue to be one of the best rhythm sections in rock history. If Lindsey and Christine can get together on this project, the results will be amazing.

It’s hard to say what I want, as a fan, from a new album. But it’s far easier to say what I DON’T want. I don’t want a Beatles WHITE ALBUM-type record, where it’s basically three singers doing solo songs backed up by the band. I don’t want RUMOURS 2 or TUSK 2 or TANGO 2. And I don’t want them redoing the EP songs. Those were finished and released by the line-up that existed at the time. That chapter is closed, which is a good thing in my book. I don’t want Dave Stewart involved. I don’t want the band to remake the EP songs or “You Can’t Fix This” or songs from Lindsey’s recent solo records.

And perhaps most importantly, I don’t want them pulling a typical FM recording schedule and taking 12-18 months to make this record. Let’s face it…Christine is 70, John is 68, Mick is 66, Stevie is 65 and Lindsey is 64. They’re not getting any younger.

People have talked about the songs that Lindsey, Mick, and John recorded last year [from which the EP songs were chosen]. And people have also suggested that Stevie has lots of unreleased songs in her closet. Presumably, Christine does as well.

Honestly, I wouldn’t even mind if they did proper studio recordings of the new songs from THE DANCE. I’ve always wanted a good Mac studio version of “My Little Demon” and “Temporary One.” [Yes, I know that some people would probably argue that, with all the studio trickery, THE DANCE could be considered a studio album…] I think Stevie has done better songs than “Sweet Girl,” but it’s certainly not a bad song, either.

Ideally, it would be great to have a new album with new songs, built as a team from the ground up. But the reality is that they probably don’t have time to start all over again if they want to release the record this year. The Lindsey-John-Mick tracks being mostly finished means that they’re close to having the album 1/3 done. Based on the eight new titles I found on ASCAP’s website back in April 2013, there are five songs left that we know about. That’s a good start.

Some of my favorite Mac songs feature the band members---usually Christine and Lindsey---trading vocals. I just love that approach, and I hope they do it some more on this record. My favorites usually involve Lindsey singing parts of Christine songs [“Hold Me,” “Think About Me,” “Don’t Stop”]. Maybe they could flip the concept and have Christine sing parts of some of those newer Lindsey songs that are in the can.

Finally, the producer. We all know that if Lindsey produces this record by himself, we won’t hear it for another two years. He needs some help---not because he can’t do it alone, but because, at this point in their lives and careers, they need someone to encourage them to be their best, to work together, and to nudge them along.

With all due respect to Mitchell Froom, an excellent producer and keyboardist who worked with Lindsey on the recent EP songs, three names come to mind: Rick Rubin, Rick Rubin, and RICK RUBIN. And if you need a fourth, RICK RUBIN. A fifth choice would be…Glyn Johns…followed by RICK RUBIN, RICK RUBIN, and RICK RUBIN.

Why do they need Rubin, and why does Rubin need them? He’s made a career out of making established acts viable again. Not that FM has ever NOT been very good, but it’s not like Johnny Cash was bad, either. Rubin got hold of him and made him sound better, that’s all. Rubin seems to love working with artists that have a history…ones that have maybe been written off by the rock media. So he would get a little credit for helping FM make a final masterpiece. He’s also known for pushing artists to focus on what makes them successful. I think he’s a guy who would look any of them in the eye and say, “That was good, but I think you can do better.” Finally, Rubin’s records sound fantastic. His production is clear, organic-sounding, timeless. And Lindsey has actually worked with him briefly in the past [Lindsey sang GREAT Brian Wilsonesque backing vocals on the Rubin-produced Tom Petty SHE’S THE ONE soundtrack record].

Having said all of this, I will be happy with pretty much anything they release as long as they’re all playing and singing and the songs are decent. At this point, whatever they decide to do is a blessing and a surprise.

Umm...but do we know for sure what Christine rejoining the band means? Have they confirmed there will be a new record? What do we really know at this point?

matt

[Fannymac]

Hello all---

Crowded House is my all-time favorite band, so I’m pretty excited about former CH singer Neil Finn’s upcoming solo album. I’m also a Springsteen and Rosanne Cash fan, so their new albums have my attention, too.

But the prospect of Christine rejoining the band and a new Fleetwood Mac record featuring the RUMOURS line-up takes the cake. It’s hard not to have unreasonably high expectations for this project.

While a tour would be nice, an album is the main thing for me. Concerts come and go and are mostly forgotten. Rarely are concerts by rock bands works of art. Entertaining? Sure. Moving? Absolutely. Memorable? Often. Art? Not usually. Albums are art, and I truly think these band members have at least one more great work in them, collectively.

The key, I think, will be Lindsey and Christine working together and balancing each other. Stevie will always be Stevie---she’ll bring in at least one great song and probably a few other very good ones. Mick and John will continue to be one of the best rhythm sections in rock history. If Lindsey and Christine can get together on this project, the results will be amazing.

It’s hard to say what I want, as a fan, from a new album. But it’s far easier to say what I DON’T want. I don’t want a Beatles WHITE ALBUM-type record, where it’s basically three singers doing solo songs backed up by the band. I don’t want RUMOURS 2 or TUSK 2 or TANGO 2. And I don’t want them redoing the EP songs. Those were finished and released by the line-up that existed at the time. That chapter is closed, which is a good thing in my book. I don’t want Dave Stewart involved. I don’t want the band to remake the EP songs or “You Can’t Fix This” or songs from Lindsey’s recent solo records.

And perhaps most importantly, I don’t want them pulling a typical FM recording schedule and taking 12-18 months to make this record. Let’s face it…Christine is 70, John is 68, Mick is 66, Stevie is 65 and Lindsey is 64. They’re not getting any younger.

People have talked about the songs that Lindsey, Mick, and John recorded last year [from which the EP songs were chosen]. And people have also suggested that Stevie has lots of unreleased songs in her closet. Presumably, Christine does as well.

Honestly, I wouldn’t even mind if they did proper studio recordings of the new songs from THE DANCE. I’ve always wanted a good Mac studio version of “My Little Demon” and “Temporary One.” [Yes, I know that some people would probably argue that, with all the studio trickery, THE DANCE could be considered a studio album…] I think Stevie has done better songs than “Sweet Girl,” but it’s certainly not a bad song, either.

Ideally, it would be great to have a new album with new songs, built as a team from the ground up. But the reality is that they probably don’t have time to start all over again if they want to release the record this year. The Lindsey-John-Mick tracks being mostly finished means that they’re close to having the album 1/3 done. Based on the eight new titles I found on ASCAP’s website back in April 2013, there are five songs left that we know about. That’s a good start.

Some of my favorite Mac songs feature the band members---usually Christine and Lindsey---trading vocals. I just love that approach, and I hope they do it some more on this record. My favorites usually involve Lindsey singing parts of Christine songs [“Hold Me,” “Think About Me,” “Don’t Stop”]. Maybe they could flip the concept and have Christine sing parts of some of those newer Lindsey songs that are in the can.

Finally, the producer. We all know that if Lindsey produces this record by himself, we won’t hear it for another two years. He needs some help---not because he can’t do it alone, but because, at this point in their lives and careers, they need someone to encourage them to be their best, to work together, and to nudge them along.

With all due respect to Mitchell Froom, an excellent producer and keyboardist who worked with Lindsey on the recent EP songs, three names come to mind: Rick Rubin, Rick Rubin, and RICK RUBIN. And if you need a fourth, RICK RUBIN. A fifth choice would be…Glyn Johns…followed by RICK RUBIN, RICK RUBIN, and RICK RUBIN.

Why do they need Rubin, and why does Rubin need them? He’s made a career out of making established acts viable again. Not that FM has ever NOT been very good, but it’s not like Johnny Cash was bad, either. Rubin got hold of him and made him sound better, that’s all. Rubin seems to love working with artists that have a history…ones that have maybe been written off by the rock media. So he would get a little credit for helping FM make a final masterpiece. He’s also known for pushing artists to focus on what makes them successful. I think he’s a guy who would look any of them in the eye and say, “That was good, but I think you can do better.” Finally, Rubin’s records sound fantastic. His production is clear, organic-sounding, timeless. And Lindsey has actually worked with him briefly in the past [Lindsey sang GREAT Brian Wilsonesque backing vocals on the Rubin-produced Tom Petty SHE’S THE ONE soundtrack record].

Having said all of this, I will be happy with pretty much anything they release as long as they’re all playing and singing and the songs are decent. At this point, whatever they decide to do is a blessing and a surprise.

Umm...but do we know for sure what Christine rejoining the band means? Have they confirmed there will be a new record? What do we really know at this point?

matt

Matt, I agree.....I've said for years that Rick Rubin would be the PERFECT choice for a new FM record, especially with Christine back in the band. I was never a big Dixie Chicks fan, but the disc they did with him was BRILLIANT! AND....it went on to win the Album of the Year Grammy!!!!! Just saying...!!

(And, yes, it's official...Chris IS back!!)

[TrueFaith77]

Producers: Timbaland, Rhett Davies, Xenomania, Richard X, Jon Brion. I can't think of anyone else worthy.

[BLY]

Matt, I agree with everything you posted ( including the Crowded House comment) except recording studio versions of the songs from The Dance. That would be three less "new songs"

[Matt Lucas]

Matt, I agree with everything you posted ( including the Crowded House comment) except recording studio versions of the songs from The Dance. That would be three less "new songs"

Haha! I guess I didn't make myself clear. I agree with you---new songs would be best. But if they're in a hurry and there's a shortage of material, I honestly wouldn't mind them doing proper studio recordings of "My Little Demon" and "Temporary One."

Producers: Timbaland, Rhett Davies, Xenomania, Richard X, Jon Brion. I can't think of anyone else worthy.

Ummm...are you being serious? Because if Timbaland is involved, I'd have to strongly consider not buying the record at all.

On one hand, I understand and appreciate the idea of them possibly using someone completely unexpected. But Timbaland? Bleck. Fleetwood Mac is timeless, a term I would never use to describe a producer of [though admittedly hooky and well-recorded] pop music. I fear that five years from now, his work will sound dated.

matt

[Johnny Stew]

In fairness, I don't think Silver Girl could have been saved, nor do I think the atrocious crimes against grammar in Smile at You could have been fixed by Lindsey without Stevie's consent.

How do you feel about "You can't plant no seed," in "What's The World Coming To?"

That may be just one example, but they've all played fast & loose with grammar from time to time.

[jbrownsjr]

How do you feel about "You can't plant no seed," in "What's The World Coming To?"

That may be just one example, but they've all played fast & loose with grammar from time to time.

As a writer, I feel grammar/diction in songs is up to the writer. You can write something "wrong" on purpose for emphasis. Or, it could be style, etc.

Changing tense is wrong on a school paper, but on an album you are financing? There is no hard fast rule. I actually asked a musical theater composer about this subject. He said, "It's my song and I can do anything I want with it. That doesn't mean it is going to sell, and I might get hell for it by the critics. But it is still my discretion."

Having said that, you don't want to look foolish. You do want a reason for writing, " FOR You You You You You You AND I":rolleyes: It's almost always easier to sing the I vowel vs. the E vowel. So keep your heart open and your eyes shut tight. What will be will be.

[RockawayBlind]

How do you feel about "You can't plant no seed," in "What's The World Coming To?"

That may be just one example, but they've all played fast & loose with grammar from time to time.

Double-negatives are par for the course in rock. There would be a lot of silly-sounding rock songs if you replaced "ain't no..." For instance, "There is no sunshine when she's gone" or "There isn't any sunshine when she's gone" wouldn't have the same impact. Or try "Is that not a shame" instead of "Ain't that a shame..." Silly, no? Language can be beautiful even in its imperfections.

But when you say "I should've turned around and ran as fast as I can," it's just atrocious. There's nothing beautiful about that misuse of the language. The tense disagreement just sounds ignorant. "I should have turned around and run as fast as I could" would have lost the rhyme but would have not lost any power; in fact, it would have been more powerful.

[RockawayBlind]

Having said that, you don't want to look foolish. You do want a reason for writing, " FOR You You You You You You AND I":rolleyes: It's almost always easier to sing the I vowel vs. the E vowel. So keep your heart open and your eyes shut tight. What will be will be.

My point of contention is "I should've turned around and ran as fast as I can." It hurts my ears and offends me as a writer and lover of the language. There's no poetry in it; it's just wrong.

[RavenOfRhiannon]

How do you feel about "You can't plant no seed," in "What's The World Coming To?"

That may be just one example, but they've all played fast & loose with grammar from time to time.

While we're on the subject of grammar, Smile At You didn't bother me near as much as this little line from Destiny Rules:

'I didn't speak the language, but somehow I know that THAT would be the only time that we could be alone and foolish'

No reason to repeat 'that,' the line works with it eliminated (in fact, I don't sing it when I sing along). I've often wondered why this wasn't addressed instead of the verse tense-Bob Dylan episode in the doc. I can't believe LB let this one slide.

[Johnny Stew]

As a writer....

Very well said! I agree that, ultimately, it should be left up to the songwriter. It's their art. That doesn't mean we can't critique it, as your composer friend pointed out, but it's up to the artist to express themselves how they choose. Whether or not it's grammatically correct.

I've always believed that's the point Stevie was trying to make with her "would you say that to Bob Dylan" comment. Cringe-worthy as it might have sounded, she wasn't placing herself in Dylan's league (she's said in the past that she's "no Bob Dylan"), she was simply using him as an example of a songwriter who doesn't follow the rules and conventions of writing.

[Johnny Stew]

But when you say "I should've turned around and ran as fast as I can," it's just atrocious. There's nothing beautiful about that misuse of the language. The tense disagreement just sounds ignorant. "I should have turned around and run as fast as I could" would have lost the rhyme but would have not lost any power; in fact, it would have been more powerful.

I actually think the line sounds better with the incorrect grammar. "I should have turn around and run as fast I could," just lands with a thud. Try singing it along.

Ironically, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but "I should have turned around and ran as fast as I can," was merely a throw-away/ad-libbed line near the very end of the 'Tusk' era demo of "Smile At You," and was nowhere to be found in the 'Mirage' era recordings.

It was only after the band (Lindsey?) decided to fashion a chorus out of it for the 'Say You Will' version, that it took on such prominence in the song. Thus becoming more offensive to some listeners.

Language can be beautiful even in its imperfections.

On that, we agree.

[TrueFaith77]

Ummm...are you being serious? Because if Timbaland is involved, I'd have to strongly consider not buying the record at all.

On one hand, I understand and appreciate the idea of them possibly using someone completely unexpected. But Timbaland? Bleck. Fleetwood Mac is timeless, a term I would never use to describe a producer of [though admittedly hooky and well-recorded] pop music. I fear that five years from now, his work will sound dated.

matt

I fear you may not be familiar with the full spectrum of his work... or his gifts as a producer of drum sounds.

Anyway, highly recommend 20/20 Experience Part 2 for some beautiful guitar mixing as well as the always present percussive genius.

[Macfanforever]

I know I might sound like a broken record on this forum about radio airplay.pun intended.LOL..

What are the chances of new tunes of Fleetwood Mac will get radio airplay this days in state of the radio climate as it is with big corp radio in charge.

Radio loved FM SYW outing in 2003 and play the crap out of it.It was great hearing SYW and Peacekeeper all the time back then out of my radio speakers at work, Walkman, car and at home on the big system.

We seen what happened little or no airplay to FM's EP Stevie's IYD CD and Lindsey s CD as radio round filed the CD's into the rubbish basket.:shrug:

At this point I just want a new CD with 4 to 5 songs each from Stevie,Lindsey and Christine in my hands soon.

[RockawayBlind]

I actually think the line sounds better with the incorrect grammar. "I should have turn around and run as fast I could," just lands with a thud. Try singing it along.

It's not a pretty line, for sure. I would have just killed the line altogether and come up with something different. Unfortunately, Stevie seems to refuse to edit herself a lot of times, and that is to the detriment of the art, in my opinion.

[RockawayBlind]

What are the chances of new tunes of Fleetwood Mac will get radio airplay this days in state of the radio claimant as it is with big corp radio in charge.


I agree. There will be little to no airplay.

[Jondalar]

I wish Lindsey would reproduce Christine's FRIEND. That was a hit in my opinion waiting to happen.

[jbrownsjr]

My point of contention is "I should've turned around and ran as fast as I can." It hurts my ears and offends me as a writer and lover of the language. There's no poetry in it; it's just wrong.

I completely understand.

[Phil]

I agree that Rick Rubin would be an excellent choice as producer for the next Mac album. I've thought about this for years and believe the band would all respect him, particularly Lindsey and Stevie (his work with Tom Petty alone would be enough to convince Stevie).
I saw a documentary about Rick Rubin a while ago and it became evident that he truly does attempt to recapture the original spirit of the recording artist, always insisting upon what he believes to be the best takes. He listens intently and makes, in my opinion, prudent choices about what remains and what is discarded. This would come in especially handy for Miss Nicks, whereas Christine and Lindsey seem to be more adept at editing themselves.
I also think Daniel Lanois would be great as a co-producer if need be.

[Johnny Stew]

It's not a pretty line, for sure. I would have just killed the line altogether and come up with something different. Unfortunately, Stevie seems to refuse to edit herself a lot of times, and that is to the detriment of the art, in my opinion.

As I pointed out, though, it was little more than a throwaway line near the end of the 'Tusk'-era demo. I doubt Stevie was married to it. If Lindsey was the sole arranger of the 'Say You Will' version, it was he who made it a focal point.

[Phil]

I have to say that I never had a problem with the lyrics for "Thrown Down" (the shift in tenses actually suited the song in my opinion), but I was always disturbed by the use of "ran" in "Smile At You". Johnny makes a valid point about Lindsey being the one to actually focus on what was undoubtedly an ad-libbed line in the beginning, most likely just thrown in as a rhyme whilst the song was being formulated.

[Macfanforever]

They need a quick paced producer .

I dont understand how some of these artists pump out award winning top of the charts albums loaded with hits every 4 to 8 months or yearly with a new album to that matter.

[RockawayBlind]

As I pointed out, though, it was little more than a throwaway line near the end of the 'Tusk'-era demo. I doubt Stevie was married to it. If Lindsey was the sole arranger of the 'Say You Will' version, it was he who made it a focal point.

It was a throwaway line at the end of the Tusk-era demo. So what? It became a central line in a song. It appears at least 10 times in the song. So how can it be just a throwaway line? On what basis do you make that statement?

You doubt Stevie was married to it. Again, on what basis? Has she ever said that?

So it's Lindsey's fault now because he was the "sole arranger." Seriously? You saw the documentary, right? She dug her heels in when he pointed out that her grammar was incorrect in Thrown Down, comparing herself to Bob Dylan. So what makes you think she would not have dug her heels in on this one? If you have the information, please share.

[RockawayBlind]

I have to say that I never had a problem with the lyrics for "Thrown Down" (the shift in tenses actually suited the song in my opinion), but I was always disturbed by the use of "ran" in "Smile At You". Johnny makes a valid point about Lindsey being the one to actually focus on what was undoubtedly an ad-libbed line in the beginning, most likely just thrown in as a rhyme whilst the song was being formulated.

So you too believe that she would have dug her heels in in Thrown Down but not on this one? The line appears at least 10 times in the song. That's Lindsey's responsibility somehow? Explain the rationale because I am confused.

[vivfox]

A fifth choice would be…Glyn Johns…followed by RICK RUBIN, RICK RUBIN, and RICK RUBIN.

LOL to Glyn Johns. Try to imagine Stevie's face if she walked into the studio and saw him. She would be outta there so fast. Faster than you could say: there will be no new Fleetwood Mac album.

[SteveMacD]

I vote for Ken Caillat and Richard Dashut.

[Phil]

Hello RockawayBlind!
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not "blaming" Lindsey for the "I should have turned around and ran" line, after all, it was uttered from Stevie's mouth. However, I was commenting on the fact that Lindsey took umbrage over the lyrics of "Thrown Down" (sufficiently so to actually broach the matter with Stevie), but chose to ignore the grammatical error in the lyrics to "Smile At You". Furthermore, he actually built a whole chorus around this line that had previously only been part of the song's ending, which most likely would have been a fade.
We need to remember that Lindsey (and the boys) worked on many of Stevie's SYW songs whilst she was touring for TISL in 2001 and I am speculating that Lindsey created the new arrangement for "Smile At You" during Stevie's absence. I'm not purporting that Stevie disagreed with this change or that there was any discussion/disagreement over the usage of the "ran" lyric. All I'm suggesting is that Lindsey may not have had a problem with this lyric, which strikes me as odd when he clearly did have difficulty with some of the lyrics for "Thrown Down". Does this make sense?

[mylittledemon]

There's been quite a bit of talk about this one. Obviously the Mac are my all time favourite and of course I'd get the CD if/when they do it... but does it really need to be done?


I say yes if not purely for the fact that I don't think Say You Will should be the bands "last outing" in the new music arena. As much as I like that album, I'd rather the band retire/say farewell/whatever you wanna call it with one final album as the Rumours fivesome.

[Phil]

Yeah Viv, I was thinking the same thing regarding Glyn Johns - that would be hilarious!

[jbrownsjr]

I vote for Ken Caillat and Richard Dashut.

Such an obvious choice. At least it would sound good.

[Jondalar]

I want a new Fleetwood Mac because Christine is back!!!!!!!

[SteveMacD]

Does this make sense?
Maybe, although "ran" rhymes with "can"....

As mentioned, there was You and I, and my personal favorite, Skies The Limit (not Sky's The Limit).

[CADreaming]

I say yes if not purely for the fact that I don't think Say You Will should be the bands "last outing" in the new music arena. As much as I like that album, I'd rather the band retire/say farewell/whatever you wanna call it with one final album as the Rumours fivesome.

Yeah, that really does make sense. I agree.

[jbrownsjr]

At this point: 92/99 people want a new FM album.

[aleuzzi]

I will die if it sucks!!

It won't suck. I'd be shocked if it were anything less than really listenable and enjoyable. I suspect, however, it will be more than that. We shall see!

[SteveMacD]

If it's better than "Mirage," I'll be happy.

[michelej1]

It was a throwaway line at the end of the Tusk-era demo. So what? It became a central line in a song. It appears at least 10 times in the song. So how can it be just a throwaway line? On what basis do you make that statement?

You doubt Stevie was married to it. Again, on what basis? Has she ever said that?



I know. Ken Caillat pointed out that she was always fighting for her lyrics, because this line would be for Mary. This line would be for Jill. That one would be for her dad. So, she'd want to keep something in not because of how it sounded but because of what it meant to her. Who knows what she is married to or not. I don't think she perceives "throw away" as we would or as other members of Fleetwood Mac would. What may very well have sounded like "rubbish" to them could have been something she went to bat for. We just don't know, because it wasn't in a documentary.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

It was a throwaway line at the end of the Tusk-era demo. So what? It became a central line in a song. It appears at least 10 times in the song. So how can it be just a throwaway line? On what basis do you make that statement?

You doubt Stevie was married to it. Again, on what basis? Has she ever said that?

So it's Lindsey's fault now because he was the "sole arranger." Seriously? You saw the documentary, right? She dug her heels in when he pointed out that her grammar was incorrect in Thrown Down, comparing herself to Bob Dylan. So what makes you think she would not have dug her heels in on this one? If you have the information, please share.

I didn't say it was Lindsey's "fault." I have no problem with the line as it is, so I don't really care whose idea it was to use in the chorus. What I'm trying to say, is that I can't imagine the line was very important to Stevie.

It may have become a central line in the 'Say You Will' version, but it started out life as a throwaway. She sang it at the tail-end of the 'Tusk' demo (you actually have to listen for it, as other things are being sung at the same time), and it doesn't appear at all in the 'Mirage'-era recordings. Not even in Stevie's ad-libs (which, surely, if it meant anything to her, she would have carried it over to each attempt at recording the song).

The band members, Lindsey included, have said many times that they worked for months on Stevie's tracks before she arrived to record her vocals. I would assume that meant arranging the songs, working out the structure, and recording basic tracks. So if Lindsey fashioned a chorus out of that line, I'm guessing he liked the sound of it, didn't have an issue with the grammar, and thought it gave the song a good "hook."

[Johnny Stew]

To get back on topic... yes, I most definitely want a new Fleetwood Mac album, now that Christine is back. It wasn't something I was interested in prior to this, but I'm extremely excited about the prospects now.

It won't be another 'Rumours,' or 'Tusk,' or 'Tango'... and it certainly won't please everyone... but it will undoubtedly be great. I'm confident they'll all bring their A-game.

[Matt Lucas]

I agree that Rick Rubin would be an excellent choice as producer for the next Mac album. I've thought about this for years and believe the band would all respect him, particularly Lindsey and Stevie (his work with Tom Petty alone would be enough to convince Stevie).
I saw a documentary about Rick Rubin a while ago and it became evident that he truly does attempt to recapture the original spirit of the recording artist, always insisting upon what he believes to be the best takes. He listens intently and makes, in my opinion, prudent choices about what remains and what is discarded. This would come in especially handy for Miss Nicks, whereas Christine and Lindsey seem to be more adept at editing themselves.


You're probably right about the Petty connection---it would buy instant credibility with Stevie. As for the editing thing, as a writer myself, sometimes it's hard to put yourself out there and share a song with someone only to have that person respond with criticism. But I think it's probably harder to truly hear and accept it from someone you know [i.e. Lindsey] than from someone you don't know as well [Rubin or another producer]. Of course, we're not just talking about Stevie here. Lindsey's strength is usually in putting a song together and arranging it, and Lord knows he's written a few goofy lyrics over the years. So I would hope that a new producer would be equally honest and direct with Lindsey's new songs. But I agree that Lindsey probably has a process of continually revising and editing his songs till they get to where he wants them. Whereas, for Stevie, songwriting seems to be more of an expression of a moment, and to edit or revise that expression later---at a completely different, unconnected moment---wouldn't make sense.

I also think Daniel Lanois would be great as a co-producer if need be.

Wow, that's an interesting suggestion. I'm a huge fan of Lanois' production as well as his own music. His second album, FOR THE BEAUTY OF WYNONA, is a masterpiece. Lanois gets fantastic drum and vocal sounds. Oh, and bass sounds. And guitar sounds, too. Hah! I think Danny would get on great with Mick and Stevie. It would be interesting to see how he and Lindsey would get along. Lindsey is such a perfectionist and leans strongly toward a very clean, organized production style. Even when he's edgy or noisy on a song---"Come" or "That's the Way Love Goes," for instance---everything about the song is still very organized.

Lanois, on the other hand, while equally adept at creating a pristine, organized production, leans heavily toward organic-sounding instruments combined with treated and ambient sounds. I guess, on second glance, that sort of sounds like Lindsey, too. But Lanois is different. His productions often have a sort of organized chaos. Atmosphere plays a huge part in his productions. He also has no problem jumping outside the box and breaking typical production procedures to get a particular sound or feel for a song. I'm curious about how Lindsey would respond in that kind of environment.

But if we're being honest, I'm not sure that Lindsey would relinquish control over the production process to anyone like Rubin or Lanois.

And while it would be interesting to see Dashut and Caillat return, neither has worked with the band in years, right? I believe Lindsey worked with Dashut on OUT OF THE CRADLE and FM on TIME...? And Caillat has burned some bridges with the band through his book, right? Based on Dashut's own website, it looks like he's retired. He doesn't list any production work in the last 10 years, and before that, it was the TUSK and RUMOURS reissues.

To me, it's not the best case scenario, but the most likely one is that Froom stays in the coproducer seat or Rob Cavallo comes back.

matt

[Matt Lucas]

They need a quick paced producer .

I dont understand how some of these artists pump out award winning top of the charts albums loaded with hits every 4 to 8 months or yearly with a new album to that matter.

A lot of successful pop and "rock" acts these days use multiple writers/producers/collaborators, so they have different sets of sessions with these folks going on at the same time.

This has become the norm for pop music. Katy Perry worked with seven producers and a number of writers, engineers, and others on her TEENAGE DREAM album. Bruno Mars' new album lists eight producers as does Taylor Swift's most recent album. I count 16 producers on Maroon 5's last album. Even Paul McCartney used four different producers for last year's NEW.

I think this is a function of the industry now---acts and labels are looking for hit singles, not albums as works of art. Albums now are mostly collections of singles, and labels encourage acts to do different sessions with different producers so that there are more options for singles that sound a little different from each other.

Of course, many rock and country acts still work with one or two producers for a record. I hope that's the direction FM takes with the presumed new album.

matt

[SteveMacD]

And while it would be interesting to see Dashut and Caillat return, neither has worked with the band in years, right? I believe Lindsey worked with Dashut on OUT OF THE CRADLE and FM on TIME...? And Caillat has burned some bridges with the band through his book, right? Based on Dashut's own website, it looks like he's retired. He doesn't list any production work in the last 10 years, and before that, it was the TUSK and RUMOURS reissues.
Caillat produced "In The Meantime" and had information about Christine returning to the stage in Maui before it happened, and then about her coming back for a tour in 2014 MONTHS before it was announced. He still appears to be in the loop.

To me, it's not the best case scenario, but the most likely one is that Froom stays in the coproducer seat or Rob Cavallo comes back.
I'm very happy with Froom, though I'd love to hear more with Patrick Leonard. "Love Shines" and "Heart Of Stone" had great production.

[jbrownsjr]

Caillat produced "In The Meantime" and had information about Christine returning to the stage in Maui before it happened, and then about her coming back for a tour in 2014 MONTHS before it was announced. He still appears to be in the loop.


I'm very happy with Froom, though I'd love to hear more with Patrick Leonard. "Love Shines" and "Heart Of Stone" had great production.

I want Ken and Richard because you get that amazing sound. Like a hand coming right out of the speaker and punching you in the head. BOOM! I'm GONE.. AND NOTHING TO SAY.................................

[ryan4136]

I want Ken and Richard because you get that amazing sound. Like a hand coming right out of the speaker and punching you in the head. BOOM! I'm GONE.. AND NOTHING TO SAY.................................

If Ken and Richard would do it for free.....LB might actually entertain the idea.

[jbrownsjr]

If Ken and Richard would do it for free.....LB might actually entertain the idea.

Haha! He could pay them, "LATER" ;)

[BlueDenimLamp]

A lot of successful pop and "rock" acts these days use multiple writers/producers/collaborators, so they have different sets of sessions with these folks going on at the same time.

This has become the norm for pop music. Katy Perry worked with seven producers and a number of writers, engineers, and others on her TEENAGE DREAM album. Bruno Mars' new album lists eight producers as does Taylor Swift's most recent album. I count 16 producers on Maroon 5's last album. Even Paul McCartney used four different producers for last year's NEW.

I think this is a function of the industry now---acts and labels are looking for hit singles, not albums as works of art. Albums now are mostly collections of singles, and labels encourage acts to do different sessions with different producers so that there are more options for singles that sound a little different from each other.

Of course, many rock and country acts still work with one or two producers for a record. I hope that's the direction FM takes with the presumed new album.

matt

Interesting...I wonder how this multi-producer concept would work for a new FM record...
Stevie, Lindsey and Christine each have their own studio with the producer of their own choosing...The 5 would simply go from studio to studio working on their respective parts as needed...As long as they stayed focused on the fact that it's a FM record and not a solo project the Mac could record a new 15 song album with lightning speed...

[AnthonyMI]

Let's not forget what a clusterfrak TISL was having elevendymillion producers and NO coherent "sound" whatsoever.

[Matt Lucas]

Interesting...I wonder how this multi-producer concept would work for a new FM record...
Stevie, Lindsey and Christine each have their own studio with the producer of their own choosing...The 5 would simply go from studio to studio working on their respective parts as needed...As long as they stayed focused on the fact that it's a FM record and not a solo project the Mac could record a new 15 song album with lightning speed...

No offense, but I hope they don't do that. I've never heard any album featuring tracks produced by three or more producers that sounded cohesive at all. Those kinds of albums end up sounding like...well...like what they are: patchwork groups of songs from completely unconnected sessions.

Now, if they wanted to take that kind of approach---each singer having sort of a "home base studio"---they could do sessions at different studios but use the same producer for all of them. That would hopefully have the dual benefit of letting each singer feel at home while at the same time having one person running all the sessions so that the sound of the recordings wouldn't differ too much from one studio to the next. [There would still be some differences because of rooms or gear like vintage mics, though.]

matt

[CADreaming]

Let's not forget what a clusterfrak TISL was having elevendymillion producers and NO coherent "sound" whatsoever.

:lol::lol::lol:

[Macfanforever]

A lot of successful pop and "rock" acts these days use multiple writers/producers/collaborators, so they have different sets of sessions with these folks going on at the same time.

This has become the norm for pop music. Katy Perry worked with seven producers and a number of writers, engineers, and others on her TEENAGE DREAM album. Bruno Mars' new album lists eight producers as does Taylor Swift's most recent album. I count 16 producers on Maroon 5's last album. Even Paul McCartney used four different producers for last year's NEW.

I think this is a function of the industry now---acts and labels are looking for hit singles, not albums as works of art. Albums now are mostly collections of singles, and labels encourage acts to do different sessions with different producers so that there are more options for singles that sound a little different from each other.

Of course, many rock and country acts still work with one or two producers for a record. I hope that's the direction FM takes with the presumed new album.

matt

Thanks Matt for the input.That makes sense with more producers on hand.

[elle]

loved reading your posts Matt Lucas!! :thumbsup: :wavey:

Lindsey actually mentioned Daniel Lanois when he was talking about bringing the outside producer for the Mac last time around, so he at least was on his radar.

bringing back Dashut and Caillat harkens to Rumours II suggestions. it's been done, let's move forward people, see what some others can do.

my personal preference - give Froom a chance to finish what he started. but i can see Rick Rubin arguments too, and there were others on these boards who brought up his name in the past. (possibly even Lindsey mentioned Rubin at the same time as Lanois? can't remember exactly, but he did list 2 or 3 possible producers.)

[michelej1]

A lot of successful pop and "rock" acts these days use multiple writers/producers/collaborators, so they have different sets of sessions with these folks going on at the same time.



I would say that Christine and Lindsey can have the same producers and work together with LB and any outside producer they want (or none) as they did on Tango.

Stevie can do whatever she wants. I hope she's been talking to Dave and maybe they can do something together, with the intent going in that Lindsey and Christine sing background on Stevie's stuff. It should be arranged with FM in mind. Dave can do that.

Michele

[RockawayBlind]

Hello RockawayBlind!
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not "blaming" Lindsey for the "I should have turned around and ran" line, after all, it was uttered from Stevie's mouth. However, I was commenting on the fact that Lindsey took umbrage over the lyrics of "Thrown Down" (sufficiently so to actually broach the matter with Stevie), but chose to ignore the grammatical error in the lyrics to "Smile At You". Furthermore, he actually built a whole chorus around this line that had previously only been part of the song's ending, which most likely would have been a fade.

That's a valid point, but we don't really know if he did. Just because it wasn't in the video, it doesn't mean he didn't raise the issue. Or, assuming he listened to Thrown Down first, after her reaction, maybe he just decided not to bother.




We need to remember that Lindsey (and the boys) worked on many of Stevie's SYW songs whilst she was touring for TISL in 2001 and I am speculating that Lindsey created the new arrangement for "Smile At You" during Stevie's absence. I'm not purporting that Stevie disagreed with this change or that there was any discussion/disagreement over the usage of the "ran" lyric. All I'm suggesting is that Lindsey may not have had a problem with this lyric, which strikes me as odd when he clearly did have difficulty with some of the lyrics for "Thrown Down". Does this make sense?

If he did, then yeah, I would agree with you that it's odd. But we simply don't know if he did.

[RockawayBlind]

It may have become a central line in the 'Say You Will' version, but it started out life as a throwaway. She sang it at the tail-end of the 'Tusk' demo (you actually have to listen for it, as other things are being sung at the same time), and it doesn't appear at all in the 'Mirage'-era recordings. Not even in Stevie's ad-libs (which, surely, if it meant anything to her, she would have carried it over to each attempt at recording the song).

The line is the refrain of the song. It doesn't matter how many demos there are of the song with the line thrown in at the end. Ultimately, what matters is that the official version was released with that very poorly written line as the refrain. It's the most important line in the song. There's no way that happened without her wanting it to happen.


The band members, Lindsey included, have said many times that they worked for months on Stevie's tracks before she arrived to record her vocals. I would assume that meant arranging the songs, working out the structure, and recording basic tracks. So if Lindsey fashioned a chorus out of that line, I'm guessing he liked the sound of it, didn't have an issue with the grammar, and thought it gave the song a good "hook."

The key word there is "assume." And my point has been we don't really know what happened that wasn't in the documentary or that someone hasn't talked about. As a songwriter, the likelihood that Stevie in 2002 would have let Lindsey or anybody change her song that much -- to actually change the chorus -- is slim to none. And as Michele and others have pointed out, she has a history of fighting tooth and nail for her lyrics. Why would you think this is different?

[RockawayBlind]

The 5 would simply go from studio to studio working on their respective parts as needed...As long as they stayed focused on the fact that it's a FM record and not a solo project the Mac could record a new 15 song album with lightning speed...

Disastrous. As soon as Lindsey starts to hear stuff that he would not normally want in a FM record, he's going to balk and the whole thing will fall apart. The three have to agree on a single producer and work with the person to come up with a uniform sound. Otherwise, the result will be inconsistent and probably sucky.

I kinda like the guy who produced the This is 40 songs. Probably the best production on Lindsey songs since Out of the Cradle, in my most humble opinion.

[Dex]

I kinda like the guy who produced the This is 40 songs. Probably the best production on Lindsey songs since Out of the Cradle, in my most humble opinion.

Totally agreed.

[Matt Lucas]

loved reading your posts Matt Lucas!! :thumbsup: :wavey:

There are a lot of well-informed and talented people on this board, so I'm happy to be a part of it. I've actually been a member since 2001. I just don't have time to post that often!

Lindsey actually mentioned Daniel Lanois when he was talking about bringing the outside producer for the Mac last time around, so he at least was on his radar.

bringing back Dashut and Caillat harkens to Rumours II suggestions. it's been done, let's move forward people, see what some others can do.

my personal preference - give Froom a chance to finish what he started. but i can see Rick Rubin arguments too, and there were others on these boards who brought up his name in the past. (possibly even Lindsey mentioned Rubin at the same time as Lanois? can't remember exactly, but he did list 2 or 3 possible producers.)

Froom produced some of my all-time favorite-sounding records, so I would love for him to get a shot and knock it out of the park. But I have to admit---the songs on the EP are okay, but they don't sound great. Is that because they were rushed out? Who knows.

Thanks for sharing that about Lanois. I didn't realize that Lindsey has mentioned him in the past. That makes him an even more interesting option. I honestly don't see them getting along in the studio, but maybe they would surprise me! Lanois is a remarkably talented guy. The most striking thing about his prodcutions is what a variety of sounds he's created. The songs range from simple, stark acoustic tunes to swampy, dense blues, from horn-laden pop to vibrant, layered rock. He's a very talented guitarist and steel guitar player, and he's written some good songs, too.

The more I think about it, the more I think it could work.

In some ways, I think Dashut and Caillat would provide a kind of full circle thing, assuming this is truly the band's last record. But I agree that their participation would only encourage more "RUMOURS 2" comparisons. That album was created by completely different people under completely different circumstances. Lightning can strike twice, but not in the exactly same place.

I would say that Christine and Lindsey can have the same producers and work together with LB and any outside producer they want (or none) as they did on Tango.

Stevie can do whatever she wants. I hope she's been talking to Dave and maybe they can do something together, with the intent going in that Lindsey and Christine sing background on Stevie's stuff. It should be arranged with FM in mind. Dave can do that.

Umm...I don't really understand that. Lindsey and Christine have to work together and use the same producer, but Stevie gets to "do whatever she wants" and work with Dave?

With all due respect to Dave Stewart, who is a talented guy and who made some great music as part of Eurythmics, he is no Rick Rubin or Daniel Lanois. In fact, I wouldn't even say he's on the same level as Dashut and Caillat...or Lindsey, for that matter. His production has no personality. The best thing about him as he relates to FM is that he seems to work well with Stevie. That's not good enough to earn a spot in the producer's chair. It may be good enough for Stevie solo, but it's not good enough for the Mac. Just being honest. *grin*

The point of having a producer is having another set of ears in the room---someone who isn't personally connected to the songs or, sometimes, even the band. You want someone in that chair who can be encouraging but also impartial. Someone who can step back and say, "That's a good song, but what if you did THIS?" or "Of the 10 demos you've brought in, those three are complete crap, these other five have some potential, and the other two are fantastic."

I want a producer who will be that honest and direct and encouraging to all of the band members...not someone who will only make Lindsey confortable or only make Stevie happy. Maybe they'll make better music if they're NOT comfortable. That seems to have worked well for them in the past.

matt

[RockawayBlind]

Totally agreed.

Have I mentioned you have impeccable taste?

[RockawayBlind]

But I have to admit---the songs on the EP are okay, but they don't sound great. Is that because they were rushed out? Who knows.


I admire your restraint. Frankly, those songs sound like they were produced in a blender with a crap frappé.

[ChickenStu]

If they did a new album I wouldn't want it to have 19/20 songs like Say You Will. I'm not a big fan of long albums. Albums that long I find difficult to listen to in one go. For me the perfect length is 40-45 minutes. Roughly ten songs.

I hope a new FM album would go that route.

I still want it to be Rumours: Part II. Maybe do a follow up to The Chain called We Never Broke The Chain. Seriously. That is an album I would like to see.

The songs could be about the band's enduring popularity with allusions to the massive success of Rumours, the constant leaving and returning of band members (Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks and especially Christine McVie) and about how they've moved on from the problems and what the relationships between them are like now. They do that, put it out under the name Rumours Part II or even just Rumours 2 with roughly the same length, same amount of songs - the logos in a similair font and a similair kind of front cover (maybe with all the band posing rather than just Nicks and Fleetwood) - I think it's a total no brainer.

Aswell as a treat for the audience... maybe it could be good for them too?

[Matt Lucas]

I kinda like the guy who produced the This is 40 songs. Probably the best production on Lindsey songs since Out of the Cradle, in my most humble opinion.

I wouldn't be unhappy if Jon Brion gets the gig. If we're looking at pure instrumental talent, he actually outshines Lindsey or Christine. No kidding. He's one of those prodigy/savant types who can play multiple instruments ridiculously well.

And he's certainly accustomed to working with egos. Jeez, the guy worked with Kanye West! His score for ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND is haunting and beautiful.

His production resume is very diverse, which is a good thing, but it's also missing big names outside of West. I'm not sure FM would consider him to be "in their league." I don't like a lot of the artists with whom he's worked, but I'll say that I've never heard a bad-sounding production from him. His productions sound GREAT. They have the richness and warmth of those classic '60s and '70s pop and rock records [like RUMOURS] but with just a hint of quirkiness [think '66-'68 Beatles] that makes them sound fresh.

matt

[jbrownsjr]

loved reading your posts Matt Lucas!! :thumbsup: :wavey:

Lindsey actually mentioned Daniel Lanois when he was talking about bringing the outside producer for the Mac last time around, so he at least was on his radar.

bringing back Dashut and Caillat harkens to Rumours II suggestions. it's been done, let's move forward people, see what some others can do.



Dashut and Caillat did Tusk and Mirage as well. And if the EP is an indication of what others can do then I don't want to move on. I want good sound on the album.

[SteveMacD]

Dashut and Caillat did Tusk and Mirage as well. And if the EP is an indication of what others can do then I don't want to move on. I want good sound on the album.

EP was not really a good representation of Mitchell Froom’s work, IMO. His work with Richard Thompson on “Daring Adventure,” “Rumor and Sigh,” and “Mirror Blue” are sublime, and has a sound reminiscent of Fleetwood Mac, IMO. He is an acceptable producer if Caillat and Dashut can’t/won’t do it.

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[elle]

Dashut and Caillat did Tusk and Mirage as well. And if the EP is an indication of what others can do then I don't want to move on. I want good sound on the album.

yeah and Caillat complains to this day that Lindsey took over on Tusk and wouldn't let him do anything he wanted to.

from what i heard of recent Caillat's work, he's still doing very similar breezy-poppy production style as what he started with LB and Dashut in the 70s. that suits and works perfectly well for a young girl like his daughter, but band of 60-70 year olds? that would be just sad, imo. and that's what he said he'd do with Tusk if only LB had let him, and that's what he said he'd be doing with Mac now if LB would let him. you know which song of the recent Mac stuff reminds me of Caillat production - Thrown Down. sounds like a Rumours era song produced by LB-CK-RD trio, just a pale replica. i know that many FM fans here seem to love that song so i guess i can understand the attraction. but i've also noticed that although people say they love it, when pitted in a poll against FM's earlier similar songs, it always ends up last. to me it sounds like regurgitating the past, only not as good. :shrug:

[SteveMacD]

from what i heard of recent Caillat's work, he's still doing very similar breezy-poppy production style as what he started with LB and Dashut in the 70s. that suits and works perfectly well for a young girl like his daughter, but band of 60-70 year olds?
"In The Meantime" sounded fine to my ears, at least from a production standpoint.

[jbrownsjr]

yeah and Caillat complains to this day that Lindsey took over on Tusk and wouldn't let him do anything he wanted to.

from what i heard of recent Caillat's work, he's still doing very similar breezy-poppy production style as what he started with LB and Dashut in the 70s. that suits and works perfectly well for a young girl like his daughter, but band of 60-70 year olds? that would be just sad, imo. and that's what he said he'd do with Tusk if only LB had let him, and that's what he said he'd be doing with Mac now if LB would let him. you know which song of the recent Mac stuff reminds me of Caillat production - Thrown Down. sounds like a Rumours era song produced by LB-CK-RD trio, just a pale replica. i know that many FM fans here seem to love that song so i guess i can understand the attraction. but i've also noticed that although people say they love it, when pitted in a poll against FM's earlier similar songs, it always ends up last. to me it sounds like regurgitating the past, only not as good. :shrug:

You're shaming me!! I like Thrown Down! :eek:

[elle]

You're shaming me!! I like Thrown Down! :eek:

aww, :sorry: you know i love you either way!

but, do you like it as much as songs on Rumours? (i should find that old poll, people voted TD as their favorite song on SYW i think, and said how great it is, and then when songs from each of the albums were put in the next poll with TD representing SYW, TD got like zero votes.)

[michelej1]

Umm...I don't really understand that. Lindsey and Christine have to work together and use the same producer, but Stevie gets to "do whatever she wants" and work with Dave?



She doesn't have to work with Dave, she can work with whomever she wants. But it seems like she had such great fun with him that it may be something she wants to continue. However, since they might be on an FM deadline the experience would not be the same as IYD, with them having dinner and after parties every night. It might be more like a grindstone and that might appeal to her less, but whatever -- let her have her own producer, not Lindsey and not someone who will bow to Lindsey.

The point is, if she's not going to be happy with Lindsey having the lion's share of production on her songs, then it shouldn't happen. He likes to work on her stuff, but he needs to give up the reins where she's concerned. If she wants him for one song and seeks out his "ominousity" , like she did for Soldier's Angel, then fine. But there's no point in her and her fans being unhappy and complaining about how he ruined her stuff for the next 10 years and beyond. I just don't think it's worth it anymore. Stevie and Lindsey should be able to work together and feel like its a collaboration, but she obviously didn't get that feeling from SYW (although I'm sure Lindsey feels differently). If the friction exhausts her and she feels her opinion is discounted and he's overriding her, then enough. Whether that's the reality or just her perception, I'm really tired of it happening.

In the old days, when they were making hits, then the battle was worth the end result. But now, when the album and the singles are not going to sell anything and that sales disappointment will only color her feelings about the recording process itself, then I don't see her being happy, whether or not listeners and critics think the music is good. She was sad about IYD, but she really felt it was her baby and she loves the music even if the album didn't get the attention she wanted. Rightly or wrongly, when Lindsey has his nose in her FM stuff, she thinks of it as his baby, not hers. I love Thrown Down and EFO and even Smile at You, but if she doesn't (I don't know if she likes EFO or not actually), then I don't want any more. Let her work with someone who makes her feel good.

Do I think it would sound more cohesive with one set of producers which would include Lindsey? Yes. But I actually don't think it's worth the hassle, but I look forward to Christine and Lindsey creating together and to the three of them singing together.

Michele

[RockawayBlind]

I'm not sure how Stevie having a different producer would work in an FM context. Who would play guitar? Can you really see Lindsey arranging and playing guitar without taking control?

[BlueDenimLamp]

I'm not sure how Stevie having a different producer would work in an FM context. Who would play guitar? Can you really see Lindsey arranging and playing guitar without taking control?

Lindsey would still play and arrange the guitar parts amongst other things...It worked on "Soldiers Angel" and even though he didn't produce SA his involvement is unmistakable...

[michelej1]

I'm not sure how Stevie having a different producer would work in an FM context. Who would play guitar? Can you really see Lindsey arranging and playing guitar without taking control?

No, but he needs to learn how for my sanity. She says that for The Chain for once in his life he just went up there and sang the part just the way she told him. He should do that some more. I mean do his guitar parts, but don't get involved in the rest of the song.

Then, if she asks him to do one song of hers because it requires special brooding, mysterious, intensity, fine. He can produce that song and otherwise keep his paws on his and Christine's stuff and off of her.

I mean, I actually think Lindsey's going to produce the album and then in 2016 Stevie will say her demos sounded a lot better than his finished product. That's what I think will happen. But if I had a wish, she would be Lennon and McCartney with Dave, all over again.

I mean, in a sense I think Eddy and Christine were on their own and Lindsey had his own stuff which laid the groundwork for Tango and then they came together and made it into FM material and that worked out very nicely. With Stevie, I think a little more separation from Lindsey than that would be ideal.
No, it's not likely to happen.


Michele

[RockawayBlind]

Lindsey would still play and arrange the guitar parts amongst other things...It worked on "Soldiers Angel" and even though he didn't produce SA his involvement is unmistakable...

But that wasn't Fleetwood Mac.

[RockawayBlind]

With Stevie, I think a little more separation from Lindsey than that would be ideal.
No, it's not likely to happen.

Michele

It won't, and I think that's for the best. If there is to be decent album, it has to be done in the FM way, which means there will be tension and squabbles. It's all part of the creative process. I believe the best option at this point would be to work with a producer who understands the band and can bring Lindsey down from the clouds, impose some discipline on Stevie and basically let Christine do what she does.

As I mentioned, I'd give the job to Jon Brion who produced Lindsey's songs on This Is 40 better than anything Lindsey has produced since Cradle. I would also suggest Brian Deck, who did a fabulous job on Iron & Wine's Kiss Each Other Clean. I bet he would have the right sensibilities to do this band justice.

There's been a lot of talk about whether there should be a Rumours II. If the band goes back into the studio with that intent, the outcome is likely to be subpar. If, however, they come in with the best songs they can contribute, regardless of whether they are songs written in the "Fleetwood Mac mold" or not, and they turn out to be Rumours-like, so be it. Forcing a certain style or mood is going to produce poor results. I believe it's what happened with the EP and to, some extent, with Mirage.

[SteveMacD]

Forcing a certain style or mood is going to produce poor results. I believe it's what happened with the EP and to, some extent, with Mirage.
I'd add "Behind The Mask" and "Time" to that list.

[sparky]

No, but he needs to learn how for my sanity.
Michele

Mine too.

As for the original question, I would like a new album. Before a tour, thank you very much. The problem of course being that these fools take too long to record. Even IYD took too long, so I can't just blame Lindsey and his studio tics.

Get Dave Grohl, get Lanois, or get Rubin to produce. Anyone but Lindsey.

Touring this summer strikes me as odd on so many levels. Christine cited travel as her main reason for quitting. Yet they are going to dive right back into it? Stevie is all about the 3 year cycle, and they are going right back out? I am sure tickets will sell. At a higher price, because the split is different now. I don't think anyone is going to take a pay cut. Still, I think some markets are going to be over saturated. The band does the same set list, virtually, every time. I know I will be hard pressed to go.

[michelej1]

Stevie is all about the 3 year cycle,

But she's not really.

I just can't imagine this being a full on tour. Not this year.

Michele

[michelej1]

It won't, and I think that's for the best. If there is to be decent album, it has to be done in the FM way, which means there will be tension and squabbles. It's all part of the creative process. I believe the best option at this point would be to work with a producer who understands the band and can bring Lindsey down from the clouds, impose some discipline on Stevie and basically let Christine do what she does.



I think the album can be decent without them all having the same producer. And I don't just want a decent album anyway, I want 5 years more of them working together without a lot of baseless accusations. I'd like peace.

Of course, I don't think any outside producer will be likely to "bring Lindsey down from the clouds." I mean, he's always going to be dominant. It's like starting out with the Tango producers who the band probably knew wouldn't last very long.

He will be tempered more by forces coming from within FM than without and I think that's a good thing. In fact, on his own songs, he might be more "out there" than ever, just because Christine will be filling a certain role and he doesn't need to bring anything poppy to the table if he's not in the mood, because she'll already bring it. With just him and Stevie he needed to do things like Sad Angel and Miss Fantasy (and I like them well enough), but now he doesn't have to go there.

Now, I don't think his FM stuff is ever going to sound like his This is 40 tracks and, for that, I'm very grateful.

Michele

[michelej1]

But that wasn't Fleetwood Mac.

But if you put Lindsey and Christine's voices and playing on something like Moonlight, A Vampire's Dream, I don't think it would sound like something that was completely foreign to FM. I think it would fit in.

And for the FM album as long as the producer was working the Stevie-written song as a FM song from the beginning (and not just tacking the FM band on at the end of the creation), I really could see the tracks sounding much more like FM than Stand Back , for instance, does.

But if it comes down to that, even with Lindsey producing, I don't think EFO sounds that much like FM, but I like it anyway and, for me, it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb on SYW, not as much as Come does.

Michele

[Matt Lucas]

Hello all---

There’s been all this discussion about the new album, but do we know for sure that there will be a new album? Lots of articles have confirmed Mick’s announcement, but has anyone commented on new recordings? The band’s publicist told Billboard, “We are hoping to make an announcement about a possible tour for the full tilt Macsters sometime in 2014.”

I’m hoping that she means the announcement will come in 2014 and not the tour itself. That would leave time in 2014 for recording. But I haven’t seen any official confirmation of an album. Did I miss something? Or are we all just assuming an album is on the way?

Man, I hope it’s an album first, then the tour. A tour first would just be a another money grab, one to which I admit I would contribute for the chance to see the full band for the first time.

I think the album can be decent without them all having the same producer. And I don't just want a decent album anyway, I want 5 years more of them working together without a lot of baseless accusations. I'd like peace.

Of course, I don't think any outside producer will be likely to "bring Lindsey down from the clouds." I mean, he's always going to be dominant. It's like starting out with the Tango producers who the band probably knew wouldn't last very long.

He will be tempered more by forces coming from within FM than without and I think that's a good thing. In fact, on his own songs, he might be more "out there" than ever, just because Christine will be filling a certain role and he doesn't need to bring anything poppy to the table if he's not in the mood, because she'll already bring it. With just him and Stevie he needed to do things like Sad Angel and Miss Fantasy (and I like them well enough), but now he doesn't have to go there.

Now, I don't think his FM stuff is ever going to sound like his This is 40 tracks and, for that, I'm very grateful.

That’s a good point about Lindsey being more likely to be influenced from within the band than from without. But I still say that a producer he respects would carry some weight with him.

Personally, I thought the THIS IS 40 songs sounded undercooked from a songwriting standpoint, but I loved the production on them.

That’s an interesting point about Christine’s presence allowing Lindsey to shift a little further off-center. But the thing is…he’s always done his weird experiments side by side with some lovely pop songs.

But if you put Lindsey and Christine's voices and playing on something like Moonlight, A Vampire's Dream, I don't think it would sound like something that was completely foreign to FM. I think it would fit in.

Umm…even adding Lindsey’s and Christine’s voices and instruments couldn’t make “Moonlight” a good song. I’m just saying. In terms of its subject, “Annabel Lee” isn’t really a FM-style song, but to me, that one sounds more like FM than a lot of Stevie solo songs.

But if it comes down to that, even with Lindsey producing, I don't think EFO sounds that much like FM, but I like it anyway and, for me, it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb on SYW, not as much as Come does.


Well, this is getting well offtopic, but even I have to agree that “Come” sounds out of place as a FM song. Don’t get me wrong---I love the song---I just don’t think it really fit on SYW.

This is another off-topic subject, but since someone mentioned “Stand Back” and other solo songs, I have to say that I hope they stay away from the solo tunes. I’ve always had a problem with FM doing the solo songs. “Stand Back” is not a Fleetwood Mac song, and neither is “Go Insane.” There are hundreds of real FM songs they can play at concerts…Stevie and Lindsey can play their solo material at their solo shows.

matt

[Matt Lucas]

EP was not really a good representation of Mitchell Froom’s work, IMO. His work with Richard Thompson on “Daring Adventure,” “Rumor and Sigh,” and “Mirror Blue” are sublime, and has a sound reminiscent of Fleetwood Mac, IMO. He is an acceptable producer if Caillat and Dashut can’t/won’t do it.

Thanks for posting those links, Steve. It's been a while since I've listened to Thompson, so I'm going to have to pull out those Fromm-produced records on the iPod and give them a spin.

Here are some links to tracks produced by Daniel Lanois and Jon Brion, respectively.

Regards,
matt

Daniel Lanois productions:

Daniel Lanois – “The Maker”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-JtAcpKtYQ

Daniel Lanois – “Lotta Love to Give”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeGJwe5nEhA

Robbie Robertson – “Somewhere Down the Crazy River”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KP9PNSUME4

Emmylou Harris – “Where Will I Be”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YpE47V1AHE

Emmylou Harris – “Goodbye”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_3v_yaUJDY&list=PL5CF58A1C9EF2728E

Bob Dylan – “Not Dark Yet”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZgBhyU4IvQ

Neville Brothers – “Yellow Moon”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTJyExd4dmw

Peter Gabriel – “Digging in the Dirt”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5fOvcta3Ws

Peter Gabriel – “Big Time” [co-producer]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxUFYNZm5oU

Black Dub – “Love Lives”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10uMDXRqLAI

U2 – “A Sort of Homecoming” [remix] [co-producer]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO1NRA43Nls

U2 – “Running to Stand Still” [co-producer]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvUI-s4Azw4


Jon Brion productions:

Jon Brion – “Strings That Tie To You”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhIUdfedmRw

Jon Brion – “Here We Go”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8ZNCQTFJvs

Jon Brion – “Knock Yourself Out”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z500MGW-WNw

Jon Brion – “Her Ghost”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RDgDiyGnGo

Rhett Miller – “Come Around”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwBhjxeG_1s

Rhett Miller – “Our Love”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZdCaduIS7M

Aimee Mann [with Squeeze] – “That’s Just What You Are”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArXL7uEQsEg

Aimee Mann – “Wise Up”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcIs3rAEytk

Aimee Mann – “Deathly”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nay5ybrUEEY

Aimee Mann – “Build That Wall”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLCvZ2CNNUM

Kanye West – “Diamonds From Sierra Leone” [co-producer]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92FCRmggNqQ

Kanye West – “Bring Me Down” [instrumental] [co-producer]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOIqgeb4q1k

Punch Brothers – “You Are”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CGhjUAfFRs&feature=share&list=PL36F2B58A621BEAA2

Best Coast – “The Only Place”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoPoRuNTo9U

[Macfanforever]

Hello all---

There’s been all this discussion about the new album, but do we know for sure that there will be a new album? Lots of articles have confirmed Mick’s announcement, but has anyone commented on new recordings? The band’s publicist told Billboard, “We are hoping to make an announcement about a possible tour for the full tilt Macsters sometime in 2014.”

I’m hoping that she means the announcement will come in 2014 and not the tour itself. That would leave time in 2014 for recording. But I haven’t seen any official confirmation of an album. Did I miss something? Or are we all just assuming an album is on the way?

Man, I hope it’s an album first, then the tour. A tour first would just be a another money grab, one to which I admit I would contribute for the chance to see the full band for the first time.



That’s a good point about Lindsey being more likely to be influenced from within the band than from without. But I still say that a producer he respects would carry some weight with him.

Personally, I thought the THIS IS 40 songs sounded undercooked from a songwriting standpoint, but I loved the production on them.

That’s an interesting point about Christine’s presence allowing Lindsey to shift a little further off-center. But the thing is…he’s always done his weird experiments side by side with some lovely pop songs.



Umm…even adding Lindsey’s and Christine’s voices and instruments couldn’t make “Moonlight” a good song. I’m just saying. In terms of its subject, “Annabel Lee” isn’t really a FM-style song, but to me, that one sounds more like FM than a lot of Stevie solo songs.



Well, this is getting well offtopic, but even I have to agree that “Come” sounds out of place as a FM song. Don’t get me wrong---I love the song---I just don’t think it really fit on SYW.

This is another off-topic subject, but since someone mentioned “Stand Back” and other solo songs, I have to say that I hope they stay away from the solo tunes. I’ve always had a problem with FM doing the solo songs. “Stand Back” is not a Fleetwood Mac song, and neither is “Go Insane.” There are hundreds of real FM songs they can play at concerts…Stevie and Lindsey can play their solo material at their solo shows.

matt

I agree with you Matt.Its like putting the buggy in front of the horse as they tour first and record.

[MrStevie]

there's no point in her and her fans being unhappy and complaining about how he ruined her stuff for the next 10 years and beyond. I just don't think it's worth it anymore. Stevie and Lindsey should be able to work together and feel like its a collaboration, but she obviously didn't get that feeling from SYW (although I'm sure Lindsey feels differently). If the friction exhausts her and she feels her opinion is discounted and he's overriding her, then enough. Whether that's the reality or just her perception, I'm really tired of it happening.

Michele

Maybe it's your perception? Can we be tired of it happening?

Please show me where Stevie complained Lindsey ruined her stuff, or where she said HE was the cause of her unhappiness with the recording process during SYW. Thanks.

[Johnny Stew]

Some of Lindsey's 'Say You Will' tracks were co-produced with Rob Cavallo and John Shanks, while Lindsey was the sole producer on Stevie's tracks. Fleetwood Mac could very easily do the reverse for the next album: Lindsey as the solo producer on his tracks and possibly Christine's as well, while he co-produces Stevie's tracks with someone else.

Stevie knows and has worked with both Cavallo and Shanks, for example, and would perhaps feel comfortable with either of them as "mediator" between her and Lindsey during the production stage. I'm not necessarily suggesting either gentlemen -- just using them as an example of producers who could serve as a bridge.

Personally, I would love for the band to work with Patrick Leonard. Although I suspect he's not eclectic enough for some fans, his work on "Love Shines" and "Heart of Stone" is pure Fleetwood Mac, without sounding like clones of their past work.

[michelej1]

Can we be tired of it happening?

All of us are tired of different things, I'm sure.

Michele

[Macfanforever]

They could hire Stomp to do a Tusk remake.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/0afeh59xiLE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I saw these guys on PBS and enjoyed them.

[michelej1]

Please show me where Stevie complained Lindsey ruined her stuff, or where she said HE was the cause of her unhappiness with the recording process during SYW. Thanks.

As soon as the Unleashed interviews started Stevie said since it's been 5 years she can be honest and say that she was unhappy making SYW and that unhappiness ruined the tour for her as well. “It was five years ago now so I can say I didn’t like it at all; I didn’t like making it. I didn’t like the songs, so that tour was very hard for me.” She said that in 2009 in the Sunday Express, but it's been said in several interviews. Stevie has been open about her displeasure with the SYW recording process for years. And I believe that she said that she couldn't understand why her demos sounded better than the finished product and that frustrated her.

As for Lindsey being the cause of her unhappiness:

I think Fleetwood Mac is thinking about working next year and we'll see how that goes. Lindsey knows that I did not have a great time during Say You Will. Because he was just not being very nice or friendly to me. And at my old age I'm like, "Please! I can't do it". Why should I? I have a great, great band. I just did a show two nights ago that got such a flamingly fantastic review. So the only reason for me to do this is for my heart. I 've always loved being in Fleetwood Mac and I'm never going to be the one to squash it if I think there is this much hope. So if Lindsey Buckingham wants to be the Lindsey Buckingham that he was a long time ago—and be happy with me and enjoy what I do, and enjoy my celebrity and just appreciate the marvellous gift of being in this elite band—then I will do it again. I will also walk away so fast that the palm tree tops will fall on his head.

[blemelin]

Last night I put on my headphones and listened to the Live in Nashville (May 21, 1977) bootleg. It's probably their best recorded live performance. They were a BAND. They sang and played as a really tight unit. Now, I don't expect the singing to match what they were capable of back then (Stevie's higher register was still intact), but if they're going to record and/or tour with Christine rejoined, then I'd like to feel some of that old unity again. Is that even possible? I don't know. Should they go back to playing without the extra musicians and backup singers? I don't know.

[RockawayBlind]

Some of Lindsey's 'Say You Will' tracks were co-produced with Rob Cavallo and John Shanks, while Lindsey was the sole producer on Stevie's tracks. Fleetwood Mac could very easily do the reverse for the next album: Lindsey as the solo producer on his tracks and possibly Christine's as well, while he co-produces Stevie's tracks with someone else.

And the album unfortunately is very inconsistent. Even Lindsey says so now.

[Johnny Stew]

And the album unfortunately is very inconsistent. Even Lindsey says so now.

I think that might have had more to do with the six or seven years that went by between the recording of Lindsey's tracks and the recording of Stevie's, rather than the fact that there were additional producers.

[secondhandchain]

Let's not forget all of the amazing demos of Stevie's that Lindsey has made much better. There are many more of those then the opposite. Look what Lindsey did to songs like Gypsy.

[David]

I mean, I actually think Lindsey's going to produce the album and then in 2016 Stevie will say her demos sounded a lot better than his finished product. That's what I think will happen. But if I had a wish, she would be Lennon and McCartney with Dave, all over again.With the "Annabel Lee" arrangement and production style, Dave actually did a better old-school Lindsey Buckingham than Lindsey himself has done in his own work—probably since "Countdown" and "Soul Drifter" twenty years ago.

Dave also got beautifully hushed vocals out of Stevie on a few of the songs on that album. Lindsey hasn't captured a great vocal out of Stevie since "That's Alright."

[sparky]

With the "Annabel Lee" arrangement and production style, Dave actually did a better old-school Lindsey Buckingham than Lindsey himself has done in his own work—probably since "Countdown" and "Soul Drifter" twenty years ago.

Dave also got beautifully hushed vocals out of Stevie on a few of the songs on that album. Lindsey hasn't captured a great vocal out of Stevie since "That's Alright."

Completely agreed. Hushed vocal and falsetto. He made her sound 30 years younger.

[mylittledemon]

Dave also got beautifully hushed vocals out of Stevie on a few of the songs on that album. Lindsey hasn't captured a great vocal out of Stevie since "That's Alright."

:lol: I have to give to you on that one...

[shackin'up]

I still think they should go in with songideas and record an album with
Jack White as a producer with a deadline of 4 months. He can do that.

[BlueDenimLamp]

My prediction is that Stevie's FM songs will be recorded at her house with Dave Stewart co-producing...

[BombaySapphire3]

Oh my goodness .These five people have collectively well over 200 years of experience of making records and some of these recordings are some of the most iconic of the rock era. I understand all of the baggage that this also brings but it still seems unreasonable that they cannot pull it together to make one more album where all of the Five are fully invested .:shrug:

[SteveMacD]

Thanks for posting those links, Steve. It's been a while since I've listened to Thompson, so I'm going to have to pull out those Fromm-produced records on the iPod and give them a spin.

Here are some links to tracks produced by Daniel Lanois and Jon Brion, respectively.

Regards,
matt

Daniel Lanois productions:

Jon Brion productions:
I don't think Daniel Lanois would be good fit for Fleetwood Mac, but I think I’d love to hear him do produce a solo album (namely a Lindsey Buckingham solo album). His production style seems to use a lot of droning guitars with a lot of busy though not especially groove heavy drumming going on in the background, and the vocals don’t seem to be especially dynamic. Fleetwood Mac’s sound traditionally has been very driven by a drum-bass-keyboard groove and has been loaded with harmony. Lindsey can get droney, but it doesn’t drive the song the way it appears to on a Lanois produced song.

If it were just the SYW line-up, Jon Brion would be an amazing fit. I’ll even say it’s unfortunate that their paths didn’t cross back when they were recording Stevie’s material. Very guitar driven, with lighter keyboards. Even songs like Rhett Miller’s “Come Around,” which has a very present piano, are still mostly guitar driven. Traditionally, the Fleetwood-McVie-McVie rhythm section drives the songs in Fleetwood Mac.

I think that’s why I think Froom is the best choice, if they need an outside producer that isn’t Ken or Richard. He's a piano player and understand how a rhythm section can drive a song while the guitarist (and, in his case, typically a folky guitarist) does his or her thing. He also gets lots of great harmonies.

[bluefox4000]

I know i haven't been here in a while. But with Chris Back, my interest in the band is back and yes I want a new album.

Mick

[Matt Lucas]

Hello all---

Stevie has been open about her displeasure with the SYW recording process for years. And I believe that she said that she couldn't understand why her demos sounded better than the finished product and that frustrated her.

Ah. Stevie has demo-itis. It’s a common affliction affecting songwriters and is diagnosed when the person becomes so attached to the sounds on a demo that he or she can’t ever really appreciate a proper studio recording of the same song because, “It just doesn’t sound as good as the demo.”

Sometimes a demo really captures that new energy that only comes when you’ve created a new song from essentially nothing, and it’s hard to reproduce that feeling when you’re in the studio doing 34 takes of a lead vocal. I’ve experienced it myself. So, I get that.

I’d like to hear some examples of Stevie demos that are better than the final, official studio recordings. The only one I’ve really heard is “Thrown Down,” and I have to say that the studio version sounds fantastic. The demos aren’t bad, but the studio version is just way better. I will be the first to admit that Stevie’s songs are very uneven on SAY YOU WILL. The good ones are VERY good…the bad ones are horrible. [In fact, the same could be said for Lindsey’s songs on that record.] Even though I’m a bigger fan of Lindsey, I have to admit that “Thrown Down” and “Say You Will” are probably my two favorite songs on that album [followed closely by “Steal Your Heart Away” and “Bleed to Love Her”]. They are just great song…very well-written and well-produced.

As for the change in the band’s sound and Lindsey’s production over the years…

I’m no expert on Stevie’s voice, so I don’t feel qualified to comment on that one.

Personally, I think part of the change in style over the years, particularly since RUMOURS, is the fact that Lindsey discovered the Rick Turner guitar and stopped using “real” guitars as much. I remember reading interviews with him around the time of OUT OF THE CRADLE, and he talked about how, in the studio, he still used other guitars like a Telecaster [I think one of those instrumental introductions was actually recorded on a Telecaster]. To my ears, that’s part of the reason that album sounded so good. Since then, I don’t think I’ve seen a single photo of him with anything other than the Turner guitar or one other acoustic guitar, and I haven’t read a single interview in which he talked about using a Fender or a Gibson.

Has he used a Gibson since the RUMOURS days? Those solos just burn, you know? I realize he loves the Turner guitar, presumably because it lets him switch back and forth between electric and acoustic sounds easily. But I don’t think the tone is great for studio recordings. That’s just me.

I think Lanois or Brion could make a fantastic-sounding FM record. The main point is that either guy has worked in a variety of settings and styles. Lanois is known for getting fantastic drum and bass sounds, and his vocal productions always have a really unusually clear, “in your face” quality to them, like the singer is sitting right there in the room with you as you listen.

Brion, on the other hand, gets great sounds, too. But less processed. For the record, he is a very gifted keyboardist, too.

Either of those guys---or Froom, should he get the call---is experienced enough to know what to do once the whole band is there. They will figure out quickly that Mick, John, and Christine are a three-headed rhythm monster.

matt

[BombaySapphire3]

Hello all---





I will be the first to admit that Stevie’s songs are very uneven on SAY YOU WILL. The good ones are VERY good…the bad ones are horrible. [In fact, the same could be said for Lindsey’s songs on that record.] Even though I’m a bigger fan of Lindsey, I have to admit that “Thrown Down” and “Say You Will” are probably my two favorite songs on that album [followed closely by “Steal Your Heart Away” and “Bleed to Love Her”]. They are just great song…very well-written and well-produced.



Which is precisely where Christine comes in..If they had tossed those bad songs to make room for a few of her best from ITMT, SYW could have been their best overall album since Tusk.

[chiliD]

Personally, I think part of the change in style over the years, particularly since RUMOURS, is the fact that Lindsey discovered the Rick Turner guitar and stopped using “real” guitars as much. I remember reading interviews with him around the time of OUT OF THE CRADLE, and he talked about how, in the studio, he still used other guitars like a Telecaster [I think one of those instrumental introductions was actually recorded on a Telecaster]. To my ears, that’s part of the reason that album sounded so good. Since then, I don’t think I’ve seen a single photo of him with anything other than the Turner guitar or one other acoustic guitar, and I haven’t read a single interview in which he talked about using a Fender or a Gibson.

Has he used a Gibson since the RUMOURS days? Those solos just burn, you know? I realize he loves the Turner guitar, presumably because it lets him switch back and forth between electric and acoustic sounds easily. But I don’t think the tone is great for studio recordings. That’s just me.


I've read in various places that he DOESN'T use the Turner Model 1 all that much in the studio (He used a National Reso-Lectric quite a bit on the SYW album). For the acoustic based tunes he seems to use the Turner Renaissance guitars more in the studio, but also Martins & Taylors.

On the last couple of tours he's used a regular ol' Fender Strat on "Tusk". But, his Turner Model 1 covers so much ground on stage, that he prefers that. However, he still changes Model 1s almost every song (from what I've seen from videos posted online, so what would be the difference between that & switching between Les Pauls, Strats & Teles? :lol: Maybe it's some sort of verbal agreement between he & Rick Turner :shrug: (similar to that you rarely see photos or videos of Clapton playing any electric except a Fender Strat, even though he still plays Gibsons every so often...like his Byrdland or an ES-335. Haven't seen him play a Les Paul for a LONNNNG time)

Lindsey seems to stretch out more with acoustic guitars on stage.. the Renaissance RS-6 or RN-6, a Carruthers ACN6, a Gibson Chet Atkins CE, a Martin D-whatever or a Taylor.

[SteveMacD]

Ah. Stevie has demo-itis. It’s a common affliction affecting songwriters and is diagnosed when the person becomes so attached to the sounds on a demo that he or she can’t ever really appreciate a proper studio recording of the same song because, “It just doesn’t sound as good as the demo.”

Sometimes a demo really captures that new energy that only comes when you’ve created a new song from essentially nothing, and it’s hard to reproduce that feeling when you’re in the studio doing 34 takes of a lead vocal. I’ve experienced it myself. So, I get that.
I think it has to do more with the fact Lindsey developed a quirkier production style after the massive success of “Rumours” because he wanted to get as far away from that because he felt that was the only way the band could maintain any artistic credibility.

Stevie has always tried to be connected with the current hit-makers, be it working with Tom Petty and Don Henley in 1981, Bruce Hornsby and Kenny G in 1989, Sheryl Crow and Natalie Maines in 2001, or slobbering over Katy Perry and John Mayer in 2014.

So, they were already on two very different paths, but Stevie had been building up Lindsey’s importance to arranging her songs since 1997 or so that she was probably very offended at what she felt was sub-par/NOT mainstream, but Lindsey felt was artistic. She was expecting him to be the guy who arranged “Dreams,” “Angel,” and “Gypsy,” while Lindsey had since become the guy who made albums like “Go Insane” (and I think it’s easy to hear some of that in what he did on Stevie’s songs on SYW).

As Dave Mason once said “there’s only you and me, and we just disagree.”

Personally, I think part of the change in style over the years, particularly since RUMOURS, is the fact that Lindsey discovered the Rick Turner guitar and stopped using “real” guitars as much.
I don't think it had anything to do with the guitars. It started on the first day of the recordings for "Tusk" when they spent hours trying to get the right sound, and once they got it, Lindsey had them turn the knobs 180 degrees. That was they same day he shaved and cut all his hair off. The Turner wasn't around until the "Tusk" tour.

To my ears, that’s part of the reason that album sounded so good. Since then, I don’t think I’ve seen a single photo of him with anything other than the Turner guitar or one other acoustic guitar, and I haven’t read a single interview in which he talked about using a Fender or a Gibson.
He used a Bass VI on "The Dance" tour for "Farmer's Daughter." I've also seen him recently with another Fender.

Has he used a Gibson since the RUMOURS days?
They show him playing a cherry sunburst Les Paul in the "Tusk" documentary.

I think Lanois or Brion could make a fantastic-sounding FM record. The main point is that either guy has worked in a variety of settings and styles. Lanois is known for getting fantastic drum and bass sounds, and his vocal productions always have a really unusually clear, “in your face” quality to them, like the singer is sitting right there in the room with you as you listen.

Brion, on the other hand, gets great sounds, too. But less processed. For the record, he is a very gifted keyboardist, too.

Either of those guys---or Froom, should he get the call---is experienced enough to know what to do once the whole band is there. They will figure out quickly that Mick, John, and Christine are a three-headed rhythm monster.
Fleetwood Mac needs a producer who has produced a three-headed rhythm monster before, and those two guys, to my ears, would be a bit behind the curve with this particular incarnation of Fleetwood Mac. (Greg Ladanyi, anyone?)

Actually, one name that hasn't been mentioned is Jeff Lynne.

[SteveMacD]

However, he still changes Model 1s almost every song (from what I've seen from videos posted online, so what would be the difference between that & switching between Les Pauls, Strats & Teles?
I think all of the guitars are tuned differently. I could be wrong.

[elle]

I think all of the guitars are tuned differently. I could be wrong.

yes, they are.

he uses M1 much more on stage with the Mac than solo. i was actually surprised what a workhorse M1 is for him with Mac, being used to his solo shows. and he plays mostly chords with the mac, solo he is much more versatile and during OMS tour in 2012 he used M1 for maybe 3 or 4 songs max - ISA, Come, GYOW, i think that was it.

and he said that he actually rarely uses M1 in the studio, and that he often uses completely different guitars for recording a song than for playing it on stage.

about 2 years ago, he did 3 or 4 different songs on his old strat, at that SoCal music school thingy he did, and they sounded interesting / different from when he normally does them with "designated" guitars.

[chiliD]

Fleetwood Mac needs a producer who has produced a three-headed rhythm monster before, and those two guys, to my ears, would be a bit behind the curve with this particular incarnation of Fleetwood Mac. (Greg Ladanyi, anyone?)



Well, Greg's gone to the great mixing board in the sky, so he's out. :shrug:

George Harrison's big beef with Jeff Lynne was that he makes EVERYTHING sound like ELO. :p: lol: So, if we want to hear what the Fleetwood McLight Orchestra would sound like, sure, let's give him a call. Lindsey would have to get his "Guitar Army" reconvened, as well. Yo, Janet, Liza, Ross...(well, hmmm, that wouldn't leave any room for Carlos Rios, so, I'd be all for that!)

[SteveMacD]

Well, Greg's gone to the great mixing board in the sky, so he's out. :shrug:
I was trying to say look what happened when the producer was behind the curve with understanding the Fleetwood Mac sound.

George Harrison's big beef with Jeff Lynne was that he makes EVERYTHING sound like ELO. :p: lol: So, if we want to hear what the Fleetwood McLight Orchestra would sound like, sure, let's give him a call. Lindsey would have to get his "Guitar Army" reconvened, as well. Yo, Janet, Liza, Ross...(well, hmmm, that wouldn't leave any room for Carlos Rios, so, I'd be all for that!)
Yeah, but then I hear what he did with the Wilburys and the Beatles, and at least that's in the ball park of the Fleetwood Mac sound.

[KarmaContestant]

I’d like to hear some examples of Stevie demos that are better than the final, official studio recordings.

For me, Smile At You is a prime example - any of the demos are better than the dreck which was recorded for SYW.

Another would be Love Is Like A River. Fans who like that song generally agree that the RAL era demos are better than what was recorded for Street Angel; at least they have in the past.

Another from Street Angel where the demo is better is Destiny. Of course, the earlier versions are Wild Heart era recordings, when her vocals were at their peak.

Running Through The Garden is another one, that for me, is better in demo/outtake form. Again, the previous versions are RAL-era - they have more energy, more passion, and far more excitement instrumentally.

Lastly, another SYW track - The Tower (I refuse to call it Goodbye Baby). The SYW version is missing all of the grief and despair of her demo vocal.

The one thing these all have in common is cocaine. It is my opinion that cocaine made Stevie a better singer. The demos of these other songs were recorded prior to her 1986 rehabilitation.

I have to disagree with you on Thrown Down - the actual demo is bare-bones. The version you're (likely?) thinking of is a full studio recording produced by John Shanks for TISL. I like both versions.

Lastly, I want to add that just because I like the demos better (and think that they are, in fact, actually better) doesn't mean that Glynn Johns or Lindsey Buckingham are at fault. Only Stevie is at fault. She was there for the recording of the newer versions, she had final say over her product, she recorded the new vocals - any blame falls squarely on her if she did not like the released versions. For me, the real issue at hand is Stevie's inability to recognize when a track is already great - demo or otherwise. I would prefer she just release them the way they already are instead of trying to make them sound current.

Just my two cents. :shrug:

[michelej1]

I’d like to hear some examples of Stevie demos that are better than the final, official studio recordings.

Well, the fans sure have their opinions on which demos sound better. I don't know what Stevie thinks. I seem to recall when she said that, she didn't specify which song she was talking about and we were conjecturing here, trying to match what she said to clips from Destiny Rules and come to a conclusion as to whether she meant Thrown Down or Smile At You or some other song that she was disappointed in.

Michele

[BlueDenimLamp]

Well, Greg's gone to the great mixing board in the sky, so he's out. :shrug:

George Harrison's big beef with Jeff Lynne was that he makes EVERYTHING sound like ELO. :p: lol: So, if we want to hear what the Fleetwood McLight Orchestra would sound like, sure, let's give him a call.

Jeff Lynne would fit in quite well with FM...
Lindsey...

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r663/Nicksiannation/Lindsey-Buckingham-fleetwood-mac-5793656-420-480_zpsba9ffaaf.jpg
Jeff...
http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r663/Nicksiannation/ed6ca5221a055a9de0fcb2c22db9ad7d_zpsf4ab4be4.jpg
Stevie & Lindsey...
http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r663/Nicksiannation/stevienicksandlindseybuckingham_zps76488608.jpg
Stevie & Jeff...
http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r663/Nicksiannation/snjl_zps60add149.jpg

You could prob swap Bucky for Jeff and no one would be the wiser...

[BombaySapphire3]

I don't see all that much difference between the production styles of Jeff and Dave Stewart:shrug: "Everybody Loves You" has a strong ELO vibe IMO.

[mitzo]

I wonder if Stevie's take on the production of her songs has more to do with her relationship with the producer, and the commercial success of the songs, than the actual merit of said production. Her solo career is littered with bad production.

[jbrownsjr]

I wonder if Stevie's take on the production of her songs has more to do with her relationship with the producer, and the commercial success of the songs, than the actual merit of said production. Her solo career is littered with bad production.

Littered is putting it mildly.

[Johnny Stew]

I wonder if Stevie's take on the production of her songs has more to do with her relationship with the producer, and the commercial success of the songs, than the actual merit of said production. Her solo career is littered with bad production.

She mentioned in 1989, while promoting 'The Other Side of the Mirror,' that she's often more fond of her original demos than the finished product. She said that her friends have told her the same thing. So her expressing that sentiment regarding the 'Say You Will' tracks is really nothing new, and -- since she was including her solo career in those 1989 comments -- I would say it wasn't solely a reflection on her relationship with Lindsey.

In regards to her relationships with the various producers: it seems that Glyn Johns is the only one she truly didn't get along with. Whatever happened between her and Rupert Hine, happened after the recording of 'Mirror.' And despite that falling out, she's still spoken affectionately of it and has referred to it on more than one occasion as her "magic album." This, also, despite sales being considerably less than previous albums.

[shackin'up]

Well nobody responds on my suggestion of Jack white producing. Lindsey himself said that he would love to work with him.
I can live with Rick Rubin, though. But maybe, realisticly, T-Bone Burnett would be an awesome option.

[Johnny Stew]

Well nobody responds on my suggestion of Jack white producing. Lindsey himself said that he would love to work with him.
I can live with Rick Rubin, though. But maybe, realisticly, T-Bone Burnett would be an awesome option.

Jack White is a pretty inspired suggestion. I like his production sound -- he has a great ear for melody & rhythm, and the various instrumental elements of his songs are crisp and clear. I do have to wonder, though, what he'd do with Fleetwood Mac's more "poppier" inclinations.

[michelej1]

I wonder if Stevie's take on the production of her songs has more to do with her relationship with the producer, and the commercial success of the songs, than the actual merit of said production. Her solo career is littered with bad production.

I think it is heavily influenced by those things. In the past, she and Lindsey never got along, but since the finished product sold and won widespread acclaim she didn't think of it negatively. She was not happy with SYW from the beginning, but the tour seemed to ease some of the friction between her and Lindsey -- until it ended. I think if SYW had been a hit my some miracle, she'd never have knocked the songs.

Same thing with Street Angel. She may have hated the experience, but the album sales would have changed that. When the album goes nowhere like SYW did and the songs that will be on this next album will, then she's going to be unhappy and that resentment will be locked in. For eternity. No, I don't think that she will take the low sales of the FM album the way she took IYD. No, I don't think she's going to love her contributions to it anyway. If Lindsey is involved in her songs, she's going to blame him, rightly or wrongly. As they are eighty years old now, I think the complaints we get from them in the next years are going to be the same ones on their dying lips. Hopefully my ears and eyes will have deteriorated so I won't have to witness those gripes for very long. Michele

[shackin'up]

Jack White is a pretty inspired suggestion. I like his production sound -- he has a great ear for melody & rhythm, and the various instrumental elements of his songs are crisp and clear. I do have to wonder, though, what he'd do with Fleetwood Mac's more "poppier" inclinations.

Something like this?

http://youtu.be/iErNRBTPbEc

By the way, you can record like this, too.

http://youtu.be/v4QbEcVVBHM

[Johnny Stew]

Something like this?

http://youtu.be/iErNRBTPbEc

Fantastic track. Not really the style of pop I was referring to, but I can see where Christine's & Stevie's songs would sparkle with this type of treatment.

Whomever the band ultimately chooses to work with, I hope they produce something that is both contemporary and harkens back to their classic sound.

[RockawayBlind]

I think that might have had more to do with the six or seven years that went by between the recording of Lindsey's tracks and the recording of Stevie's, rather than the fact that there were additional producers.

I would say it was a combination of all that -- Lindsey tunes recorded at different times, different producers, Stevie tunes that were a bat fit, etc.

[RockawayBlind]

Hello all---
Sometimes a demo really captures that new energy that only comes when you’ve created a new song from essentially nothing, and it’s hard to reproduce that feeling when you’re in the studio doing 34 takes of a lead vocal. I’ve experienced it myself. So, I get that.

Great point. Though I would argue most songs benefit from repeated playing, especially in front of an audience, to marinate and mature. I know this is harder to do in a band setting than a with singer/songwriter approach, but it can be done to great effect when it is possible.


Personally, I think part of the change in style over the years, particularly since RUMOURS, is the fact that Lindsey discovered the Rick Turner guitar and stopped using “real” guitars as much. I remember reading interviews with him around the time of OUT OF THE CRADLE, and he talked about how, in the studio, he still used other guitars like a Telecaster [I think one of those instrumental introductions was actually recorded on a Telecaster]. To my ears, that’s part of the reason that album sounded so good. Since then, I don’t think I’ve seen a single photo of him with anything other than the Turner guitar or one other acoustic guitar, and I haven’t read a single interview in which he talked about using a Fender or a Gibson.


Another great point, but the Gibon vs. the Model 1 becomes almost an academic discussion since the Turner can be as beefy, or more, than the Gibson, if that's what you're looking for. He also still uses Teles and Strats in the studio. I believe Down on Rodeo, for instance, uses a Tele. What bothers me is the use of the Renaissance models in the studio when he should be using a nice Martin or Gibson acoustic -- or even one of this Taylors, as long as it is miced properly.

[Johnny Stew]

I think it is heavily influenced by those things. In the past, she and Lindsey never got along, but since the finished product sold and won widespread acclaim she didn't think of it negatively. She was not happy with SYW from the beginning, but the tour seemed to ease some of the friction between her and Lindsey -- until it ended. I think if SYW had been a hit my some miracle, she'd never have knocked the songs.

Same thing with Street Angel. She may have hated the experience, but the album sales would have changed that. When the album goes nowhere like SYW did and the songs that will be on this next album will, then she's going to be unhappy and that resentment will be locked in. For eternity. No, I don't think that she will take the low sales of the FM album the way she took IYD. No, I don't think she's going to love her contributions to it anyway. If Lindsey is involved in her songs, she's going to blame him, rightly or wrongly. As they are eighty years old now, I think the complaints we get from them in the next years are going to be the same ones on their dying lips. Hopefully my ears and eyes will have deteriorated so I won't have to witness those gripes for very long. Michele

We have two examples of albums that didn't sell millions of copies, but that Stevie loves: 'Trouble In Shangri-La' (663,000 copies) and 'In Your Dreams' (188,000). And we have two examples of albums that didn't sell millions, that Stevie doesn't like: 'Street Angel' (229,000) and 'Say You Will' (864,000 - more than 'TISL' and 'IYD' combined, for the record).

I'm not sure why her reaction to the latter two albums has become the accepted view among fans of how she responds to something with low sales. Seems to me like a 50/50 shot that she'll love the next Mac album, even if it doesn't sell a million copies.

[secondhandchain]

With the "Annabel Lee" arrangement and production style, Dave actually did a better old-school Lindsey Buckingham than Lindsey himself has done in his own work—probably since "Countdown" and "Soul Drifter" twenty years ago.

Dave also got beautifully hushed vocals out of Stevie on a few of the songs on that album. Lindsey hasn't captured a great vocal out of Stevie since "That's Alright."

I often wondered why Stevie doesn't use a falsetto more often. I wouldn't mind her using a falsetto to hit notes she can't anymore. Rhiannon for example.

[AnthonyMI]

I often wondered why Stevie doesn't use a falsetto more often. I wouldn't mind her using a falsetto to hit notes she can't anymore. Rhiannon for example.


I think i recall Stevie saying that she wont record a song the way she has to play it night after night after night unless they are notes she can sing every day. Like the same seemingly 8 note octave she has been using the last 10 years or so LIVE. She can sing those higher notes, she just prefers not to. Part of that is the slow loss of her higher non-falsetto range over the last 20 years and part a bit too much vocal training to be monotone and droning. We all know she can sing pretty and soft, but it is harder to do that and wears on the voice more than opening up the throat and singing from the diaphragm.

[RockawayBlind]

Well nobody responds on my suggestion of Jack white producing. Lindsey himself said that he would love to work with him.
I can live with Rick Rubin, though. But maybe, realisticly, T-Bone Burnett would be an awesome option.

Jack White would be interesting. He might bring out some of the raw energy that we see live but doesn't appear in the studio.

T-Bone Burnett would be a fantastic choice.

[michelej1]

I'm not sure why her reaction to the latter two albums has become the accepted view among fans of how she responds to something with low sales. Seems to me like a 50/50 shot that she'll love the next Mac album, even if it doesn't sell a million copies.

Her defeatist comments after TISL failed to sell and her claim that poor sales were the result of fans stealing the music did not encourage me to think that that's not how she reacts to low-selling records. But she bucked up and put out IYD anyway and has fought for it. Good for her.


But despite her faith in IYD regardless of how it was received, I think her expectations for FM sales are still different from what they are for her solo records. Aside from that, because of the fractious production process, I think she would have been inclined to dislike a lot more of the FM records, if they hadn't sold. Mirage wasn't that hot, but with the Gypsy video lighting up MTV she couldn't complain too much about her music on there. But she'd be hating those FM albums as much as she used to hate Tusk if most of them hadn't been so successful.

That's how I think she is. Maybe she'll do something to change my mind. We'll see.

Michele

[gssmith]

I loved what jack white did with Loretta Lynn's album!

[michelej1]

I loved what jack white did with Loretta Lynn's album!

Van Lear Rose is incredible. He got out of the way on the production. It was pretty spare. The way Lynn's voice sounded and the fire -- ferocity -- she had was really great. The deep, oaken way that Christine's voice sounded on Meantime, if she still sounds like that, I would love to see Jack White produce her by herself and bring out something new in her that would surprise even the long time fans.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

The title of this thread is "Do we really want another Fleetwood Mac album?" And there's even a poll. After a week of staring at it I keep wondering, who wouldn't want another Fleetwood Mac album? I mean, really, does anyone out there think there shouldn't be one?

[SteveMacD]

Anybody who says "no" apparently things "Say You Will" should be Fleetwood Mac's swansong.

[iamnotafraid]

Anybody who says "no" apparently things "Say You Will" should be Fleetwood Mac's swansong.

What's scary is, what if it's worse than Say You Will?

I can't imagine any songs from In The Meantime making
SYW better.

As others have mentioned I like the idea of Jack White working
with them. He would make them stop wasting time in the studio
and actually put out a rock album in 2014.

If wishes were fishes...

[HomerMcvie]

What's scary is, what if it's worse than Say You Will?



I don't think that's possible...

[shackin'up]

I don't think that's possible...

Well, sure That's possible. In the meantime is aweful. If that level of songs meets with the level of the EP than it will be impossible to top SYW.

[shackin'up]

Why Jack White?

Lindsey looks up to him.
Stevie knows how good it is to work with younger alt. Artists (foo's).
He fits in leftfield rock, country/folk and Rythm & Blues. All ingredients fitting buckingham, nicks and McVie. AND the rythmsection.

He hates wasting time with things that not fuel the music in it's core.

He's brilliant.

[MoonSister75]

Well, sure That's possible. In the meantime is aweful. If that level of songs meets with the level of the EP than it will be impossible to top SYW.

Well lets just hope there is a bit of the old magical chemistry between Lindsey and Chris. Its quite possible and highly likely, that new songs will be better than ITM and the EP. I like SYW and enjoy listening to most of it, so I don't think it would be terrible if a new album is of that standard.

[Ulpian]

Well, sure That's possible. In the meantime is aweful. If that level of songs meets with the level of the EP than it will be impossible to top SYW.

Awful is relative. There are a couple or brilliant tracks, and some duff ones. That's much what I feel about SYW.

[David]

Awful is relative. There are a couple or brilliant tracks, and some duff ones. That's much what I feel about SYW.
My beef with SYW isn't the songwriting, the length, or the producing—it's the vocals (which can't be helped) and the engineering (which can). The single worst thing to happen to SYW was Mark Needham.

[shackin'up]

Awful is relative. There are a couple or brilliant tracks, and some duff ones. That's much what I feel about SYW.

Well, I meant aweful as, no brilliance. There are some OK tracks, but they lack oomph. How psychotic SYW may be, it has regularly ' bite '. I Miss that on Chris' and Stevie's solowork. What do I miss on Lindsey's solowork? Mick and John, basicly, and the occasional vocal blend with others than himself.

[David]

Sometimes a demo really captures that new energy that only comes when you’ve created a new song from essentially nothing, and it’s hard to reproduce that feeling when you’re in the studio doing 34 takes of a lead vocal. I’ve experienced it myself. So, I get that.

I’d like to hear some examples of Stevie demos that are better than the final, official studio recordings. Given everyone's habit of calling anything that isn't on the album a "demo," it's hard to draw any conclusions. But the vocal feeling you talk about in the piano demo of "Sisters of the Moon" from March 1978 wasn't reproduced on the studio track.

’m no expert on Stevie’s voice, so I don’t feel qualified to comment on that one.Expertise isn't required. Just listen to her concert delivery in some of those live videos on YouTube. Her singing these days is strident and harsh. Must be age.

[aleuzzi]

Well, sure That's possible. In the meantime is aweful. If that level of songs meets with the level of the EP than it will be impossible to top SYW.

Disagree: In the Meantime was very, very good. Maybe the arrangements weren't all that daring, but almost every one of those songs was written and sung in the style of classic Christine. I prefer it to the '84 record.

Agree: the EP was lackluster.

[aleuzzi]

My beef with SYW isn't the songwriting, the length, or the producing—it's the vocals (which can't be helped) and the engineering (which can). The single worst thing to happen to SYW was Mark Needham.

As much as I respect SYW as a new studio album with loads of well-written and performed new material, I too was not a big fan of the engineering. The overall feel was dry and synthetic. I don't think the vocals were particularly weak. What I do notice is that without Christine, there was nothing to soften the harshness of the others' voices, which have gotten harder and more nasal with age--which is typical.

Lindsey and Stevie used to harmonize beautifully together, but since both of their voices dropped a register, there's a real need for a soft, soothing alto in the mix.

When Stevie sings on In Your Dreams, she sounds great, in part because the arrangements and instrumentation are built around her vocal style, and because she has her backup girls to soften certain edges. I do think, too, that there was a certain amount of studio wizzardry used on IYD to help smooth out her voice. And that note she holds at the end of "Italian Summer" is most certainly looped.

[HomerMcvie]

Well, sure That's possible. In the meantime is aweful. If that level of songs meets with the level of the EP than it will be impossible to top SYW.

Well, I like ITM FAR more than SYW! It's far from perfekt, but it has my soothing songbird on there. There are a few songs I don't care for, but in general, I like it much more than SYW. Okay, I probably don't care for 3-4 songs on it, but I really only LIKE 3-4 songs on SYW.

[Ulpian]

As much as I respect SYW as a new studio album with loads of well-written and performed new material, I too was not a big fan of the engineering. The overall feel was dry and synthetic. I don't think the vocals were particularly weak. What I do notice is that without Christine, there was nothing to soften the harshness of the others' voices, which have gotten harder and more nasal with age--which is typical.

Lindsey and Stevie used to harmonize beautifully together, but since both of their voices dropped a register, there's a real need for a soft, soothing alto in the mix.

When Stevie sings on In Your Dreams, she sounds great, in part because the arrangements and instrumentation are built around her vocal style, and because she has her backup girls to soften certain edges. I do think, too, that there was a certain amount of studio wizzardry used on IYD to help smooth out her voice. And that note she holds at the end of "Italian Summer" is most certainly looped.

Yes, I agree with this. That's why I find BTLH and SYHA to be the easiest on the ear on Say You Will; there isn't the grating which occurs on other songs because Christine is there, albeit in a diminished role. She bridges the gap between Lindsey and Stevie's voices.

[michelej1]

The title of this thread is "Do we really want another Fleetwood Mac album?" And there's even a poll. After a week of staring at it I keep wondering, who wouldn't want another Fleetwood Mac album? I mean, really, does anyone out there think there shouldn't be one?

Five people do.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

Five people do.

Michele

Yeah. I saw that. Who are these people? And how on earth is this possible?

[michelej1]

Yeah. I saw that. Who are these people? And how on earth is this possible?

They're probably solo fans who want their artist back without FM. But they aren't going to get that. FM has their soul. Those five people are ours.

Chained.

Michele

[vivfox]

Five people do.

LOL. I thought you meant Mick, John, Chris, Lindsey and Stevie.

[jbrownsjr]

Disagree: In the Meantime was very, very good. Maybe the arrangements weren't all that daring, but almost every one of those songs was written and sung in the style of classic Christine. I prefer it to the '84 record.

Agree: the EP was lackluster.

I have gone from liking ITM to loving it. It has seriously grown on me this past year. Those songs are very well written. Sweet Revenge and Forgiveness have been on my playlist lately. It's great stuff.

[jbrownsjr]

They're probably solo fans who want their artist back without FM. But they aren't going to get that. FM has their soul. Those five people are ours.

Chained.

Michele

we waited long enough! It's our turn now! bwahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[RockawayBlind]

Her defeatist comments after TISL failed to sell and her claim that poor sales were the result of fans stealing the music did not encourage me to think that that's not how she reacts to low-selling records. But she bucked up and put out IYD anyway and has fought for it. Good for her.
Michele

Stevie would be a terrible, terrible artist and professional if she let sales prevent her from recording another album. In the post-music label era, especially, no self-respecting artist can use that as an excuse.

[RockawayBlind]

The title of this thread is "Do we really want another Fleetwood Mac album?" And there's even a poll. After a week of staring at it I keep wondering, who wouldn't want another Fleetwood Mac album? I mean, really, does anyone out there think there shouldn't be one?

Yep. Because I think it will be crap.

[RockawayBlind]

Anybody who says "no" apparently things "Say You Will" should be Fleetwood Mac's swansong.

It's way better than the uninspired fodder in the EP, so I'd rather have SYW be the swan song than an album full of the same stuff as in the EP.

[RockawayBlind]

I don't think that's possible...

So you haven't heard the EP?

[RockawayBlind]

Why Jack White?

Lindsey looks up to him.
Stevie knows how good it is to work with younger alt. Artists (foo's).
He fits in leftfield rock, country/folk and Rythm & Blues. All ingredients fitting buckingham, nicks and McVie. AND the rythmsection.

He hates wasting time with things that not fuel the music in it's core.

He's brilliant.

I know you love him, and he's an interesting choice. But I don't see him as a fit for FM. Now, if you were talking about working with Lindsey as a solo artist, that's a different story.

[aleuzzi]

Yep. Because I think it will be crap.

Thank god you're in the minority.

I for one think it's going to be amazing. Just a feeling. I don't think the EP (which I do not like) is the direction the music is going to go. With all five of them back in the same room, working together, the energy is going to be high...very high.

[louielouie2000]

Why Jack White?

Lindsey looks up to him.
Stevie knows how good it is to work with younger alt. Artists (foo's).
He fits in leftfield rock, country/folk and Rythm & Blues. All ingredients fitting buckingham, nicks and McVie. AND the rythmsection.

He hates wasting time with things that not fuel the music in it's core.

He's brilliant.

And anyone who thinks Jack White isn't musically flexible or able to work with established artists hasn't heard the album he produced for Wanda Jackson, the Queen of Rockabilly. The Party Ain't Over was more true to herself than anything Wanda had recorded in 40+ years, yet was still very edgy & fresh sounding at the same time. Jack seems to find that magical balance with everyone he works with.

[aleuzzi]

I have gone from liking ITM to loving it. It has seriously grown on me this past year. Those songs are very well written. Sweet Revenge and Forgiveness have been on my playlist lately. It's great stuff.

Totally agree. I have never understood why some are unhappy with it. Her voice is in top form, the songs are all catchy (some stronger than others, but all catchy)....

Giving it Back, Forgiveness, Friend--they are all classic Mac sounding songs, much more so than anything on SYW. And, as many have already recognized, her vocals on the two Dan Perfect tunes are Career highs.

[BLY]

I think the bottom line is the sum is greater then the parts IMO. I have always enjoyed and bought all the solo music and loved having 11-13 new tracks from Lindsey, Christine and Stevie but NOTHING is better than a Fleetwood Mac album with the "five", Get it done!

[SteveMacD]

SYW wasn't great, ITM wasn't great...Gee, maybe if all five had been working together, one big album would have been great, because both albums had more good songs than bad.

[Ulpian]

Totally agree. I have never understood why some are unhappy with it. Her voice is in top form, the songs are all catchy (some stronger than others, but all catchy)....

Giving it Back, Forgiveness, Friend--they are all classic Mac sounding songs, much more so than anything on SYW. And, as many have already recognized, her vocals on the two Dan Perfect tunes are Career highs.

I *love* Christine, but even I think ITM had some pretty weak stuff towards the end of the album. It's subjective, of course, but Forgiveness and Givin It Back strike me as padding.

However, Friend, You Are, Anything is Possible and Liar are very strong and would have worked well on an FM record. She lifts the Dan Perfect tracks - Calumny and Northern Star - above even the sublime; they are just terrific.

On SYW, I could have happily cut Red Rover, Illume, Silver Girl, Come, What's the World Coming To and Everybody Finds Out. They irk me, and ten or so years have not changed that.

[RockawayBlind]

I think maybe some of us are putting too much hope in Christine's return to the band to elevate song quality, should they record an album. I don't have In the Meantime, but what I heard was underwhelming. "Temporary One" was kind of blah, considering what she had brought to the table previously.

Stevie's In Your Dreams was pretty good, really her best CD since maybe The Wild Heart. But I don't know that she can contribute another "Gypsy" or "Sara." I don't know that she has another "Landslide" or "Sisters of the Moon" in her. I doubt it.

I wasn't worried about Lindsey until the EP came out. Now I wonder if his stuff is going to be subpar too, if there is an album.

I have very, very low expectations. The silver lining here is that if there is an album and it turns out to be great, I will be the happiest of all because of my low expectations.

[elle]

I think maybe some of us are putting too much hope in Christine's return to the band to elevate song quality, should they record an album. I don't have In the Meantime, but what I heard was underwhelming. "Temporary One" was kind of blah, considering what she had brought to the table previously.

Stevie's In Your Dreams was pretty good, really her best CD since maybe The Wild Heart. But I don't know that she can contribute another "Gypsy" or "Sara." I don't know that she has another "Landslide" or "Sisters of the Moon" in her. I doubt it.

I wasn't worried about Lindsey until the EP came out. Now I wonder if his stuff is going to be subpar too, if there is an album.

I have very, very low expectations. The silver lining here is that if there is an album and it turns out to be great, I will be the happiest of all because of my low expectations.

low expectations have been my mantra for a long long time, you get pleasant surprises that way. :)

i think swan songs are overrated. i think they should put out an album, because they are artists and that's what they do. artists put out albums, some solo, some collaborating with others, they go in and out of their main band. i don't understand why people think their next album needs to be great. it won't be great to everybody on this board anyway. if the album is not good who cares? they are doing something. and who says it has to be their last?

[bombaysaffires]

On SYW, I could have happily cut Red Rover, Illume, Silver Girl, Come, What's the World Coming To and Everybody Finds Out. They irk me, and ten or so years have not changed that.

Running Through the Garden.

[elle]

On SYW, I could have happily cut Red Rover, Illume, Silver Girl, Come, What's the World Coming To and Everybody Finds Out. They irk me, and ten or so years have not changed that.

Running Through the Garden.

i'd cut "What's the World Coming To?", "Smile at You", "Running Through the Garden" , "Silver Girl" and "Not Make Believe". perhaps "Say Goodbye". and "Illume". those are songs i skip (however much i tried to give them a chance) when i listen to the album.

[mylittledemon]

Yep. Because I think it will be crap.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3806/12054528403_80ea3323c0_n.jpg

[ChickenStu]

The title of this thread is "Do we really want another Fleetwood Mac album?" And there's even a poll. After a week of staring at it I keep wondering, who wouldn't want another Fleetwood Mac album? I mean, really, does anyone out there think there shouldn't be one?

Well, now that Christine McVie's rejoined the band, I'm a bit warmer to the idea than I was. But it's like I said in my opening post - The Stones are not likely to do any new albums now because the fans who come to the gigs want to hear the old classics, not a whole bunch of new songs they're not all that familiar with.

You could definitely say that FM are contemporaries of the Stones and therefore at this stage in their career are likely to encounter similar problems.

Extended Play was a GREAT idea. Not a new album, just four new songs available online. Even if they did ALL FOUR of those songs, the set at a gig is still likely to please fans cause all the rest of it will be filled with the old standards.

I think that could set a precedent for other bands that have been around for a while and reached have iconic status. It's a compromise. I would not be surprised if the Stones, Zeppelin, or even Genesis (if the rumours are true that Phil Collins is thinking about coming out of retirement) followed suit and did things this way.

When I started this thread, I said that another EP by the Mac to coincide with a big new tour would be something I'd sooner welcome that a new album. Of course, I didn't know Christine McVie was about to come back when I said this.

So now, who knows?

[Christopher]

Well, now that Christine McVie's rejoined the band, I'm a bit warmer to the idea than I was. But it's like I said in my opening post - The Stones are not likely to do any new albums now because the fans who come to the gigs want to hear the old classics, not a whole bunch of new songs they're not all that familiar with.

You could definitely say that FM are contemporaries of the Stones and therefore at this stage in their career are likely to encounter similar problems.

Extended Play was a GREAT idea. Not a new album, just four new songs available online. Even if they did ALL FOUR of those songs, the set at a gig is still likely to please fans cause all the rest of it will be filled with the old standards.

I think that could set a precedent for other bands that have been around for a while and reached have iconic status. It's a compromise. I would not be surprised if the Stones, Zeppelin, or even Genesis (if the rumours are true that Phil Collins is thinking about coming out of retirement) followed suit and did things this way.

When I started this thread, I said that another EP by the Mac to coincide with a big new tour would be something I'd sooner welcome that a new album. Of course, I didn't know Christine McVie was about to come back when I said this.
So now, who knows?

I think another EP vrs. another full record depends on how much material collectively the band has, and the quality of that material. Also if Warners (or another label) really is "chomping at the bit" to get another FM record, as Lindsey stated in one of his interviews last year.

Surely, the band doesn't have illusions about shifting a million of units of anything new. And sure, the precendent about fans generally wanting to hear the hits is true. However, the dissimilarity with say, The Stones, or many iconic classic rock bands, is that the FM "Rumours" line-up produced a measly 5 studio recordings. A new release always generates lots of publicity, and hence some new goodwill & interest towards the band, and more importantly, their cash cow back catalog! Also the undeniable fact that Christine's return signals 1/3 of FM's songwriting might back to the band, buyoed by Lindsey literally being on record many times over, since 2012 through 2013, that he and the boys really WANT to do another record. With Chris officially now on board, with new material being hinted at, Stevie would be insane not to be onboard! Christine is the ultimate buffer that Stevie could have wished for between her & Lindsey in the studio.

[michelej1]

I don't think Meantime was a great album by any means. I do think it had some great moments.

Furthermore, Christine has always been capable of really weak songs. I think most of her Tusk entries prove that. And I agree that Temporary One is tepid. I thought both Sweet Girl and Temporary One were dreck.

But if Christine contributes 6 new songs, I'm pretty confident that 3 will be stellar, at least. Three more stellar songs from her will be more than welcomed by me.

Michele

[KarmaContestant]

I don't care if Fleetwood Mac perfoms only old material - that should never preclude them from recording new material. A new album doesn't mean they have to go on the road and sing only the new songs. As always, they'd likely do about 19 old tracks and 3-5 new tracks, which I'm sure is perfectly acceptable to anyone who's actually buying tickets.

I'm very excited about the possibility of a new album, but I don't want a copy/paste album where they each take tracks rejected for a solo album and piece them together expecting a producer to make them sound unified. I want a Fleetwood Mac album - not a Lindsey & Stevie solo album under the Fleetwood Mac name, guest staring Christine.