security shoving hot young girls in front of Lindsey?

[reebokandlace]

I can only hope someone from the band reads these all these posts and ends this practice....lets see what happens in montreal.

[reebokandlace]

Bimbos? Really? The name calling is a little much. Also, what's wrong with having a drink? Nearly every person at the show I went to had a drink in hand. It's not just the younger crowd. Everyone's there to have a good time.

Obviously feelings aren't going to change. I can tell because this thread has dozens of pages that are just saying the same thing over and over. & I'm not trying to start anything I'm just asking that there's less generalization around the people that are being taken up. I cried and I actually saw another girl cry when we were invited. There is only one other time that I've cried out of happiness in my life. That's how meaningful that was and to see countless people on here refer to us as "bimbos" or whatever is a little disrespectful.


I think bimbos is a little harsh. I think the anger shouldn't be directed at the girls who are choosen to stand in the $750 seat section, but should be directed at the people who are allowing this to happen. This is the fault of the band. Of course it is a once in a lifetime experience for many people to be choosen to go up and get a free ride, the issue is people have paid alot of money for their once in a lifetime experience, only to have it ruined by a crowd of additional people who are intruding on the space they paid good money for to ensure their own once in a lifetime experience. Blame the band, not the girls. The only way to stop this is to MAKE the band stop by filing a lawsuit for damages (there are tons of videos showing this happening)....otherwise roll over and take it from them.

[TsnFan4Ever]

It was disgusting how poorly Ian and Justin treated the VIP guests at the show I attended. I have never been so rudely treated as I was by both of them--for no reason except they wanted to put the "right" people up there--who didn't deserve it and didn't pay to be there. It's also really upsetting how the rules change with the venue--first three rows at the first concerts and then all of a sudden, it was only the first. Then when everyone who didn't have a ticket crowded in, 2nd. row seats became essentially 6th row because of all the extra people crowding in

Maybe if I'd been able to see another show during this tour (if tickets were available in So. Cal) and if these tickets didn't cost double what they did last year, it wouldn't be quite as bad. But Mick and Lindsey need to get their priorities straight. Their long-time fans who are literally supporting them by paying these exorbitant prices for these tickets have a right to be treated with some respect.

This behavior wouldn't be tolerated where I work; why are we putting up with it here? In hindsight, I wish I hadn't bought my ticket 6 months in advance so that I could have disputed the charge when all of this happened. Please let me know if anyone does initiate a lawsuit. I'm in.

[Fever Dance]

Bimbos? Really? The name calling is a little much. Also, what's wrong with having a drink? Nearly every person at the show I went to had a drink in hand. It's not just the younger crowd. Everyone's there to have a good time.

Obviously feelings aren't going to change. I can tell because this thread has dozens of pages that are just saying the same thing over and over. & I'm not trying to start anything I'm just asking that there's less generalization around the people that are being taken up. I cried and I actually saw another girl cry when we were invited. There is only one other time that I've cried out of happiness in my life. That's how meaningful that was and to see countless people on here refer to us as "bimbos" or whatever is a little disrespectful.
I also hate the word bimbo. However some of these girls are definitely taking advantage of the situation even boast about it on social media. I can't tell you how many times I've cried at Lindsey and Stevie's feet myself. But I would never feel entitled to be up there in front of any other fan who had paid for a VIP seat. I've even let shorter and disabled fans in front of me at shows :)

And of course there is nothing wrong with drinking at a concert but at my show, Lindsey's herd of girls were blocking the view and aisle of VIP people and the constant bathroom breaks and leaving to get more drinks was distracting and rude. Not only to the audience but also to the man they were brought down to worship.

And you're right, feelings aren't going to change. What FM'S security is doing is wrong and they're losing lifelong fans because of it.

[Macfanforever]

He's a pro and never miss a note without loosing his concentration playing and singing while drooling as he looks at these young girls dancing in front of him.Got to give him credit for that.

Yea .He can look but not touch as the saying goes.LOL......

[Newzchspy]

But shouldn't it happen organically, with the fans who are naturally there and not randos handpicked from the crowd to show "enthusiasm."

Michele

Exactly Michele. I know die hard fans who paid good money for VIP and weren't let up to the front. It's disgusting and a slap in the face to all of us who work very hard for tickets.
If Lindsey is that insecure maybe he needs to reevaluate his life and make some changes. Sorry but I think his Big Love speeches are a bunch of BS

I love you ladies ^ ^ ^ , BUT quit hatin!! As if this hasn't been done for years with Zep, ACDC, RS , the WHO, VH, all those 80s Glam Bands and many many others. Its the nature of the business and even more the nature of the Man Beast!! (I mean, come on, look at LBs album covers, NOT a bad one in the bunch, the SOB makes Tom Brady look ugly)

So, here's how I see it. You're looking at the video of the performance and you see a bunch of old guys and gals like US dressed in our best faux Nicks attire or YOU see a bunch of young hotties fawning at LB (thank GOD not Mick, yikes )...........and they're all excited that THEIR ROCK GOD is giving them a lil attention (and hes excited to GET IT BACK= Manhood). IT still is the music business after all... Emphasis: Music Business!!!

Why does Taylor Swift (cough!!) have young hot guys in her vids?? Because no one wants to see old ugly ones!!

[Newzchspy]

He's a pro and never miss a note without loosing his concentration playing and singing while drooling as he looks at these young girls dancing in front of him.Got to give him credit for that.

Yea .He can look but not touch as the saying goes.LOL......

Yeah Yeah, keep telling yourself that :)

[Macfanforever]

Yeah Yeah, keep telling yourself that :)

Hahahahaha.

[reebokandlace]

I love you ladies ^ ^ ^ , BUT quit hatin!! As if this hasn't been done for years with Zep, ACDC, RS , the WHO, VH, all those 80s Glam Bands and many many others. Its the nature of the business and even more the nature of the Man Beast!!

I disagree, all those bands you mention above did not charge $750 for vip tickets in the first few rows and then bring 20+ people into that same section. Yes, allowing hot girls up front is an age old practice in rock and roll, but this is completely different when you are charging your fans a lot of money for an experience and soiling the experience by giving it away to a large crowd of people night after night. Lets see what happens in montreal. If they do it tonight (i know someone tied to the band is aware of what happens on this board) if it happens tonight then the band is saying F-U to the fans that are complaining....and laughing all the way to the bank.

[Newzchspy]

I disagree, all those bands you mention above did not charge $750 for vip tickets in the first few rows and then bring 20+ people into that same section. Yes, allowing hot girls up front is an age old practice in rock and roll, but this is completely different when you are charging your fans a lot of money for an experience and soiling the experience by giving it away to a large crowd of people night after night. Lets see what happens in montreal. If they do it tonight (i know someone tied to the band is aware of what happens on this board) if it happens tonight then the band is saying F-U to the fans that are complaining....and laughing all the way to the bank.

TTT , BUMP for update?? What happened??

Are they at the bank right now??

[reebokandlace]

I havent watched the videos to see if the crowd was broght up....have you?

[lovethemac1]

I was at an MSG show recently and noticed Lindsey was really enjoying the ladies congregating by his monitor. More so than in the past. Not a biggie, I know he likes to flirt on occasion. It seems to fuel him, to be able to interact with specific faces in the crowd. Heck, he's flirted with me. But there was something....respectful(?) about it.

Well, this time at Newark's show tonight, I got turned off. During Mick's band introductions, he leaned down and engaged in an quite extended conversation with one of the young ladies.

Then, after the band bowed and was exiting, he went back to talk some more. A folded paper was handed to him by one of the girls (I think the one he was talking to) and he tried to be discreet about it (in front of thousands of people), slipping it into his right blazer pocket.

Seriously, dude? You're married. Wtf.

Yes, I know this is an age-old story and shouldn't be surprised. But you're married, with kids, and in front of tens of thousands of people. Don't be a slime.

Of course, this is purely speculation on my part, but let's be serious.

And, in other news, THE BAND EFFING ROCKED!!!!!!!

Wow, if you are right, that's pretty cheesy.

[BigBigLove]

I was at an MSG show recently and noticed Lindsey was really enjoying the ladies congregating by his monitor. More so than in the past. Not a biggie, I know he likes to flirt on occasion. It seems to fuel him, to be able to interact with specific faces in the crowd. Heck, he's flirted with me. But there was something....respectful(?) about it.

Well, this time at Newark's show tonight, I got turned off. During Mick's band introductions, he leaned down and engaged in an quite extended conversation with one of the young ladies.

Then, after the band bowed and was exiting, he went back to talk some more. A folded paper was handed to him by one of the girls (I think the one he was talking to) and he tried to be discreet about it (in front of thousands of people), slipping it into his right blazer pocket.

Seriously, dude? You're married. Wtf.

Yes, I know this is an age-old story and shouldn't be surprised. But you're married, with kids, and in front of tens of thousands of people. Don't be a slime.

Of course, this is purely speculation on my part, but let's be serious.

And, in other news, THE BAND EFFING ROCKED!!!!!!!

WHOA! You need to get your facts straight!

The piece of paper was from me. I'm a guy. A *straight* guy. Say anything else you want to say, but don't spread misinformation just because you think you saw something that didn't happen. I'm sure someone somewhere in the arena will post a video of the final bows and you'll see that I (a tall white dude) was the only person in the front row that handed anything to Lindsey.

Needed to clear that up right away... now you can carry on.

[rhiannondontgo]

I was at an MSG show recently and noticed Lindsey was really enjoying the ladies congregating by his monitor. More so than in the past. Not a biggie, I know he likes to flirt on occasion. It seems to fuel him, to be able to interact with specific faces in the crowd. Heck, he's flirted with me. But there was something....respectful(?) about it.

Well, this time at Newark's show tonight, I got turned off. During Mick's band introductions, he leaned down and engaged in an quite extended conversation with one of the young ladies.

Then, after the band bowed and was exiting, he went back to talk some more. A folded paper was handed to him by one of the girls (I think the one he was talking to) and he tried to be discreet about it (in front of thousands of people), slipping it into his right blazer pocket.

Seriously, dude? You're married. Wtf.

Yes, I know this is an age-old story and shouldn't be surprised. But you're married, with kids, and in front of tens of thousands of people. Don't be a slime.

Of course, this is purely speculation on my part, but let's be serious.

And, in other news, THE BAND EFFING ROCKED!!!!!!!

He's spoken to me and girls around me during shows before. It's not as scandalous as people think. He's not sleazy to us up there. He asked me if i'm having a good time once (uh, duh. Of course I am). He joked to another girl about her shirt (that had the band on it, he pointed to his own face on it). He complimented my purse once. And often signs things that people bring up when he's sitting on the edge and talking to us. He's never said anything disrespectful at all. And usually people are trying to throw up letters they've written or little signs they're holding up. Much like how we give Stevie letters/notes/pictures/gifts during edge walks.

[michelej1]

WHOA! You need to get your facts straight!

The piece of paper was from me. I'm a guy. A *straight* guy. Say anything else you want to say, but don't spread misinformation just because you think you saw something that didn't happen. I'm sure someone somewhere in the arena will post a video of the final bows and you'll see that I (a tall white dude) was the only person in the front row that handed anything to Lindsey.

Needed to clear that up right away... now you can carry on.

Thanks for the clarification. Even if it was a paper from a woman that wouldn't mean anything untoward. Could have been a poem or a note saying how much they appreciate his music. Now, if he puts her room key or panties in his pocket (discreetly or not) that would be a different story.

Michele

[Gypsy]

Wow, that got responded to fast.

Like I said, it could have speculation on my part, and, apparently it was. I stand corrected, and thank you for the clarification.

It makes me feel a bit better that it was from a tall white dude, and that it was not as 'untoward' as it seemed!

Uh, should I delete my original post then?

[elle]

Wow, that got responded to fast.

Like I said, it could have speculation on my part, and, apparently it was. I stand corrected, and thank you for the clarification.

It makes me feel a bit better that it was from a tall white dude, and that it was not as 'untoward' as it seemed!

Yes, but why would you even speculate something like that when you obviously didn't see what happened.

I was there and I can corroborate what bigbiglove said. I saw him handing Lindsey a very large piece of paper which Lindsey than folded and put in his pocket.

Apparently it's very hard to believe for so many people anything positive about LB and everybody is extremely quick to judge and accuse him of anything they feel like.

[Gypsy]

Ok, folks, I don't need to get involved in any bad vibes here.

I speculated, was corrected, and acknowledged the correction.
I do thank everyone for their input, and will be deleting my original post, since it was in error.

Many thanks!

[LittleDemon]

I can say that he kissed a girl on the lips last night when she asked for one. Earlier in the show she asked and he said I promise and was wondering promise what. I figured a towel or a pick. At the end of the show he did lean down and had a couple of kisses. His focus for interaction was in that area for most of the night. The show was amazing as it always is but things have changed with the interaction this year. Yes, he's always flirted and it was fun, he makes great stares and faces but this year 2nd row and 3rd that could go up all the other years is now replaced as we've stated before. Which is disappointing when you buy the ticket thinking that is part of the fun, going up if you choose. I know other groups bring girls up. Usually they give them actual tickets to use seats slated for "guests" and upgrade. Not push out the paying guests telling them you can't go up anymore after paying $750 but beautiful young people can. Hey, I would go if I were selected to go up. I don't blame anyone for going when asked but what was such a fun tour being able to go up with yr VIP seat just turned to disappointment but things change in life and unfortunately first 3 rows going up is no more. I just wish I knew that when I bought the VIP tickets for a few shows for the stage experience everyone talked about. Could have saved alot of money and gone the cheaper seats as years past and had no expectations. Lindsey is amazing, no one can beat him. I've been to many shows but never saw personally anyone flirt so much with young girls all night long at his age. hahahaha But he can so he will.

[RockawayBlind]

I've resisted jumping on this thread but I see it keeps going. My reaction, having read so many of the posts, is that, well, Lindsey should be ashamed of himself. Nothing more pathetic than some old guy flirting with pretty young girls. Second, this is yet another example of the basic lack of respect this band has for its fans.

That's all.

[teedeerocks]

I can say that he kissed a girl on the lips last night when she asked for one. Earlier in the show she asked and he said I promise and was wondering promise what. I figured a towel or a pick. At the end of the show he did lean down and had a couple of kisses. His focus for interaction was in that area for most of the night. The show was amazing as it always is but things have changed with the interaction this year. Yes, he's always flirted and it was fun, he makes great stares and faces but this year 2nd row and 3rd that could go up all the other years is now replaced as we've stated before. Which is disappointing when you buy the ticket thinking that is part of the fun, going up if you choose. I know other groups bring girls up. Usually they give them actual tickets to use seats slated for "guests" and upgrade. Not push out the paying guests telling them you can't go up anymore after paying $750 but beautiful young people can. Hey, I would go if I were selected to go up. I don't blame anyone for going when asked but what was such a fun tour being able to go up with yr VIP seat just turned to disappointment but things change in life and unfortunately first 3 rows going up is no more. I just wish I knew that when I bought the VIP tickets for a few shows for the stage experience everyone talked about. Could have saved alot of money and gone the cheaper seats as years past and had no expectations. Lindsey is amazing, no one can beat him. I've been to many shows but never saw personally anyone flirt so much with young girls all night long at his age. hahahaha But he can so he will.
What was Stevie's reaction to the girl asking for a kiss? I hope she didn't mouth, "not gonna happen"...

[LittleDemon]

Stevie didn't see the girl ask, it happened when he talks to the girls while Stevie is telling her Gypsy story when he checks out of that and focuses his time on the young women. Right before Mick came out at the end after encores,he planted a couple of kisses on lips kneeling down at the stage. Then he realized Mick was out and zipped off stage. So Stevie didn't say "ain't gonna happen" cause it did happen. LOL http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/images/smilies/kiss.gif

[teedeerocks]

Stevie didn't see the girl ask, it happened when he talks to the girls while Stevie is telling her Gypsy story when he checks out of that and focuses his time on the young women. Right before Mick came out at the end after encores,he planted a couple of kisses on lips kneeling down at the stage. Then he realized Mick was out and zipped off stage. So Stevie didn't say "ain't gonna happen" cause it did happen. LOL http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/images/smilies/kiss.gif

Well that GIF is definite proof of the seedy 'going ons' at the concert.I hope Kristen doesn't catch a glimpse of it - she'll be crushed :laugh:

[BigBigLove]

I can say that he kissed a girl on the lips last night when she asked for one. Earlier in the show she asked and he said I promise and was wondering promise what. I figured a towel or a pick. At the end of the show he did lean down and had a couple of kisses. His focus for interaction was in that area for most of the night.

It's fascinating to read this thread and see how people step forward speculating saying they saw something that didn't happen ("a folded paper was handed to him by one of the girls... and he tried to be discreet about it").

Now we have one that doesn't even claim to be speculation: "I can say that he kissed a girl on the lips last night when she asked for one." Not true! Where do you people come up with this stuff? There's no way that your memory of the event has deteriorated to the point that you're unintentionally bastardizing the truth, because it was just last night. I stood literally no more than three feet away from LB during the entire exchange at the show (hence how I was close enough to him to hand him a piece of paper) and watched him from right in front of his monitor for the remainder of the entire show. He did kiss several girls on the hand (including one who had to have been in her 40s). I found nothing sleazy about it.

During the "Gypsy" intro, he talked to five of us, including me, three young women, and one woman who was probably in her 40s if I had to guess. A few other people (including a man who was there with his girlfriend/wife/significant other) said various things to him that he acknowledged. He signed several autographs at that time. One woman (probably around 50 or so) jokingly called out to Lindsey to sign her breasts, and he smiled at her. Perhaps him interacting with the audience is disrespectful to Stevie, but as others have mentioned, the "Without You" intro from 2013 at least involved Lindsey, while the "Gypsy" story is much more self-indulgent.

I won't deny for a moment that Lindsey flirts with girls at his side of the stage, because he absolutely does. Having said that, I believe it's part of the act, as he also interacts with me a lot (and I'm a straight male as I mentioned in my previous post). Lindsey has been nothing but nice and extraordinarily gracious to me. I think he wants to see high energy people in the front and younger women are a fairly safe bet as far as that goes (I'm trying not to sound sexist here, but it's true).

On that note, the same can be said of Ian -- for someone who gets accused of having a one track mind (find 'hot' women and push them up front), Ian has been nothing but nice to me. I've been to so many shows at this point that he immediately recognizes me, shakes my hand, and asks me how I'm doing. Last night, he talked with me about how much he loves seeing fans like myself that travel all over the country/world for this band that we love so much. He's a very 'real' guy and he truly loves and admires Fleetwood Mac.

For what it's worth, I talked with a few of the young women you're talking about that were brought up to the stage last night. One of them had been to 7 shows on the current tour (and this was her first time up front). She knew the words to every song and was definitely a dedicated fan. I find that at least half of the people with 'genuine' front row seats who are 40+ years old know the words to less than half of the songs at best and seem rather uninterested in tracks like IKINW or OMH. Don't get me wrong, they've paid for their seat and deserve to be up there, but don't blame Lindsey for wanting to add high energy people into that mix. Before you think I'm being unfair in what I've said in this paragraph, know that I've paid for five Mick M&G tickets on the current tour alone and I'm not independently wealthy.

As for the folks that are saying they're going to start a class action lawsuit, I literally laughed out loud when I read your posts. I respect the fact that you're miffed, but you need to get two things straight:

1. You didn't pay Fleetwood Mac $750 for a seat. You paid Mick Fleetwood $750 for a "VIP experience" that happens to include one of the allotment of seats Mick is given as part of his touring contract. It's supplemental income for Mick, who gets paid less than the three songwriters for the live performance itself. None of that money goes to the venue or the rest of the band. Whether you like it or not, you're paying for the opportunity for the Meet & Greet with Mick, the 'exclusive tour merchandise,' signed photo, laminate, the opportunity to attend a Q&A with him, and the ticket. The "VIP" experience ends when you get sent back in line like every other ticket holder (like I said, I've been right there alongside many of you at several of these, so I'm speaking from experience). The notion that the venue, the band, or the band's staff owes any of us anything special during the concert itself is erroneous, period.

2. No concert ticket, whether "VIP" or not, comes with an implied warranty or guarantee of any kind so long as the performance itself actually takes place. What's the legal basis for your proposed suit (i.e. what is the accused infringement/law that's been broken?). Seriously, let's be logical about this. I heard a couple people saying they were going to demand a full refund when Mick got sick on stage a few weeks ago and the show had to be cut 45 minutes short or whatever. Did that make sense even when you were saying it to yourself in your head? Of course not.

If you don't want to go to the concert, then don't go. I've heard plenty of people saying that they weren't going because the tickets are simply too pricey for this tour (in some cases nearly double to what comparable tickets on the 2013 tour cost). I get it, and it's your right to stay at home. It's crazy how many people on here are saying that FM doesn't care at all about their fans. Granted, they play an identical setlist night after night and give the same speeches between songs, but they're still an incredibly great band that performs for 2.5+ hours without a single break. They've brought immeasurable joy to millions of people around the world and have changed the lives of many of us on this forum. It's OK to gripe and complain, but seriously, don't pretend to hate a band that has inspired and touched the world in various ways for 48 incredible years.

And if you really do honestly hate the band, feel free to click the "Log Out" button at the top right corner of this page and never come back.

[sasja]

It's fascinating to read this thread and see how people step forward speculating saying they saw something that didn't happen ("a folded paper was handed to him by one of the girls... and he tried to be discreet about it").

Now we have one that doesn't even claim to be speculation: "I can say that he kissed a girl on the lips last night when she asked for one." Not true! Where do you people come up with this stuff? There's no way that your memory of the event has deteriorated to the point that you're unintentionally bastardizing the truth, because it was just last night. I stood literally no more than three feet away from LB during the entire exchange at the show (hence how I was close enough to him to hand him a piece of paper) and watched him from right in front of his monitor for the remainder of the entire show. He did kiss several girls on the hand (including one who had to have been in her 40s). I found nothing sleazy about it.

During the "Gypsy" intro, he talked to five of us, including me, three young women, and one woman who was probably in her 40s if I had to guess. A few other people (including a man who was there with his girlfriend/wife/significant other) said various things to him that he acknowledged. He signed several autographs at that time. One woman (probably around 50 or so) jokingly called out to Lindsey to sign her breasts, and he smiled at her. Perhaps him interacting with the audience is disrespectful to Stevie, but as others have mentioned, the "Without You" intro from 2013 at least involved Lindsey, while the "Gypsy" story is much more self-indulgent.

I won't deny for a moment that Lindsey flirts with girls at his side of the stage, because he absolutely does. Having said that, I believe it's part of the act, as he also interacts with me a lot (and I'm a straight male as I mentioned in my previous post). Lindsey has been nothing but nice and extraordinarily gracious to me. I think he wants to see high energy people in the front and younger women are a fairly safe bet as far as that goes (I'm trying not to sound sexist here, but it's true).

On that note, the same can be said of Ian -- for someone who gets accused of having a one track mind (find 'hot' women and push them up front), Ian has been nothing but nice to me. I've been to so many shows at this point that he immediately recognizes me, shakes my hand, and asks me how I'm doing. Last night, he talked with me about how much he loves seeing fans like myself that travel all over the country/world for this band that we love so much. He's a very 'real' guy and he truly loves and admires Fleetwood Mac.

For what it's worth, I talked with a few of the young women you're talking about that were brought up to the stage last night. One of them had been to 7 shows on the current tour (and this was her first time up front). She knew the words to every song and was definitely a dedicated fan. I find that at least half of the people with 'genuine' front row seats who are 40+ years old know the words to less than half of the songs at best and seem rather uninterested in tracks like IKINW or OMH. Don't get me wrong, they've paid for their seat and deserve to be up there, but don't blame Lindsey for wanting to add high energy people into that mix. Before you think I'm being unfair in what I've said in this paragraph, know that I've paid for five Mick M&G tickets on the current tour alone and I'm not independently wealthy.

As for the folks that are saying they're going to start a class action lawsuit, I literally laughed out loud when I read your posts. I respect the fact that you're miffed, but you need to get two things straight:

1. You didn't pay Fleetwood Mac $750 for a seat. You paid Mick Fleetwood $750 for a "VIP experience" that happens to include one of the allotment of seats Mick is given as part of his touring contract. It's supplemental income for Mick, who gets paid less than the three songwriters for the live performance itself. None of that money goes to the venue or the rest of the band. Whether you like it or not, you're paying for the opportunity for the Meet & Greet with Mick, the 'exclusive tour merchandise,' signed photo, laminate, the opportunity to attend a Q&A with him, and the ticket. The "VIP" experience ends when you get sent back in line like every other ticket holder (like I said, I've been right there alongside many of you at several of these, so I'm speaking from experience). The notion that the venue, the band, or the band's staff owes any of us anything special during the concert itself is erroneous, period.

2. No concert ticket, whether "VIP" or not, comes with an implied warranty or guarantee of any kind so long as the performance itself actually takes place. What's the legal basis for your proposed suit (i.e. what is the accused infringement/law that's been broken?). Seriously, let's be logical about this. I heard a couple people saying they were going to demand a full refund when Mick got sick on stage a few weeks ago and the show had to be cut 45 minutes short or whatever. Did that make sense even when you were saying it to yourself in your head? Of course not.

If you don't want to go to the concert, then don't go. I've heard plenty of people saying that they weren't going because the tickets are simply too pricey for this tour (in some cases nearly double to what comparable tickets on the 2013 tour cost). I get it, and it's your right to stay at home. It's crazy how many people on here are saying that FM doesn't care at all about their fans. Granted, they play an identical setlist night after night and give the same speeches between songs, but they're still an incredibly great band that performs for 2.5+ hours without a single break. They've brought immeasurable joy to millions of people around the world and have changed the lives of many of us on this forum. It's OK to gripe and complain, but seriously, don't pretend to hate a band that has inspired and touched the world in various ways for 48 incredible years.

And if you really do honestly hate the band, feel free to click the "Log Out" button at the top right corner of this page and never come back.

Be that as it may, and I myself would never pay a penny to go see them in concert, However!! You are not addressing the original point of:

What the HEY is that all about, disrespecting high-paying customers by planting a hedge of girls in front of them, making their first row seats third or fourth row seats?

Sure, you'd probably say " Then don't buy those seats,dummy".

Are you asking for a complete boy-cot then? :wavey:

[SteveMacD]

http://www.memedonkey.com/download/47201--griffin-oh-my-god-who-the-hell-cares-wallpaper-960x640.jpg

[rhiannondontgo]

What the HEY is that all about, disrespecting high-paying customers by planting a hedge of girls in front of them, making their first row seats third or fourth row seats?

First row is allowed to run up and stake out their spot at the stage long before girls are brought up. Girls aren't brought up until mid-song after everybody in the front row who wanted to stand at the stage has already gotten their spot. If you pay $750 for a front row seat and don't stand up at the stage, that's on you and you really cannot complain. You buy these tickets knowing that most people in your row will be standing at the front, meaning that if you just sit, your view will already be obstructed by your follow front-rowers standing up there.
That's how it is at any show that allows the front row at the stage. Just be grateful your favorite band allows that at all. A lot of touring acts do not and rope off the stage and force you to stay in your seat even if you're in the 1st row. When I am at the stage for any concert by any band, I grab hold of the stage and do not move if that's what it takes to keep my spot up there. If you don't do that and choose to stay sitting and allow the front row and the girls brought up to get in front of you, then you shouldn't have even paid for front row seats. Because it should just be expected that the rest of your row will stand and then obstruct your view, whether or not other girls are there too.


I won't deny for a moment that Lindsey flirts with girls at his side of the stage, because he absolutely does. Having said that, I believe it's part of the act, as he also interacts with me a lot (and I'm a straight male as I mentioned in my previous post). Lindsey has been nothing but nice and extraordinarily gracious to me. I think he wants to see high energy people in the front and younger women are a fairly safe bet as far as that goes (I'm trying not to sound sexist here, but it's true).

On that note, the same can be said of Ian -- for someone who gets accused of having a one track mind (find 'hot' women and push them up front), Ian has been nothing but nice to me. I've been to so many shows at this point that he immediately recognizes me, shakes my hand, and asks me how I'm doing. Last night, he talked with me about how much he loves seeing fans like myself that travel all over the country/world for this band that we love so much. He's a very 'real' guy and he truly loves and admires Fleetwood Mac.


Thank you for being a logical, courteous person here. 90% of the negative posts here are speculation on how angry they would be if they were up there and girls were brought up. Here's someone who has repeatedly stood there along with the girls and witnessed it and is telling you how much he didn't mind. I've been next to lots of people who didn't mind our presence. My friends and I didn't go to Newark last night but have been brought up at 4 other shows, and nobody has ever complained. The people in the front row were nothing but nice. We didn't get in their way, push through them, act rude or obnoxious, or do anything of the sort. If a group of people is rude at a show, that reflects only on them, and that specific group only, not on all girls brought up as a whole or on the guards or LB. I've seen some of the most obnoxious people up there be the ones that were actually front row, and i've also seen annoying drunk chicks be brought up. But most often, we don't do anything offensive up there. And while there may be a couple girls up there who don't know all the songs, for every one of those girls, there's 10 others who are diehard fans and have been to 5+ shows on this one tour and the experience alone of being near their heroes means so much to them. So, don't judge.
Ian & Justin are nothing but kind, by the way. They interact with everyone and are so nice and welcoming. They're being told by higher ups to gather exciting young women to liven it up. They aren't solely responsible and aren't the least bit sleazy. Same goes for LB. Girls come up because obviously, it makes it more exciting when theres young people dancing and singing and having a great time up there. It makes people looking at the stage feel like they're at something really special if there's young people having a ton of fun. When you're in your 60s-70s, you are already labelled a nostalgia act by many. It wouldn't be nearly as exciting to see this band if the people on the floor are all over 50 and sitting in their seats quietly. Even if you don't agree, they still serve a purpose.
And if you're offended or upset by the actions of any specific girls at shows, it should only reflect back on then. Certainly not on LB or the guards, who are extremely kind if you get to know them.

[sasja]

http://www.memedonkey.com/download/47201--griffin-oh-my-god-who-the-hell-cares-wallpaper-960x640.jpg


My Hero!

:xoxo: :]

[reebokandlace]

As for the folks that are saying they're going to start a class action lawsuit.....

1. You didn't pay Fleetwood Mac $750 for a seat.

2. No concert ticket, whether "VIP" or not, comes with an implied warranty or guarantee of any kind so long as the performance itself actually takes place. What's the legal basis for your proposed suit (i.e. what is the accused infringement/law that's been broken?



I think some may disagree with you...
#1. They did shell out $750 for the entire experience. The meet and greet and the great seat were marketed and sold as a package deal.

#2. There is a reasonable expectation that a front row seat does not mean that additional people will be brought into your row and placed in front of you. A front row seat purchase comes with a reasonable expectation of unobstructed first row viewing. You ask what is the legal basis? You would need to consult an attorney regarding the law concerning "consumer purchases and reasonable expectation" so they can explain to you the law regarding consumer rights in the US. Only an attorney can answer that question.

.

[LittleDemon]

I could care less if LB kisses, flirts with anyone at the stage, the point is that for YEARS it was practice that the first 4 rows went up. Then 3, and now just front row suddenly in a short period of time. We buy a seat higher in price because you'd like that experience. You get there, you are told you can't go up anymore but people that did not pay do because they are better looking, it's very disappointing when it’s possibly the last show you’ll ever see. You are at yr seat and watch everyone have fun at the stage when you thought you were going to stand there. You don’t seem to understand in the least.

Not all people 40 plus are dead and don't sing so basically enthusiastic older fans aren't welcome this last leg of the tour to stage only the 1st row assuming we are dead? LOL We had an expectation, not that they owe us but suddenly it just stopped?? People are upset because it’s not that no one gets to go and they stopped the practice, it stopped to make room for young girls. I think it's great that young people love their music and sing along. I took a 24 year old with me before and she said it was the best show she ever saw. I’ve talked and enjoyed the company of many young people at these shows over the years. It's not FM's security's fault, they are just doing as they are told.

As for the kiss, it's what we saw, not figment of the imagination..also saw hand kisses too, absolutely, maybe YOU missed something, it was quick but My friend and I looked at each other at the same time and just cracked up when it happened standing from an angle we were. He bent down and kissed on the lips and then hands flew up and he kissed those too AND shook hands and signed things prior. We saw him put the paper in his coat pocket too and fans do that all the time write notes to the artist. Also, the girl wanting Lindsey to sign her breasts said it was her arm she wanted signed. So see the “breast” thing was your perception. She was not hanging out of her shirt at all but she did seem a bit overserved and was not a youngster so there was an active older fan. LOL Lindsey did laugh.

We're all fans young and old that’s why anyone in the room is there but when you feel you've been put out to pasture and yr love for a band is longer than the kids are old that replaced you and you PAID to be close and waited many years to be able to finally do it..well it’s just a change that wasn’t welcomed. Lindsey can flirt all he wants WHO CARES but if 2nd and 3rd rows are now squeezed out for that reason to make room for that, then it’s become a problem to older fans. What if you paid $750 before you realized things had changed this leg to go to the stage but you were replaced with others that didn’t pay and were told to stay in yr seat someone better looking gets yr spot. You might be complaining too.

Going forward many of us know what to expect. Even 2nd row or 3rd means 6th or 7th row. We’re just supposed to understand and be satisfied with your explanation that young pretty girls are just more fun and to give up yr spot for that reason and just go be happy about it. The band is amazing, I will always love the band and the joy they have brought me to this point, however, it’s a bummer to go out this way when yr last show you got shot down to go to the stage and you waited months for it where any other year it was a given and it’s for the reason WHY.

[BigBigLove]

I could care less if LB kisses, flirts with anyone at the stage, the point is that for YEARS it was practice that the first 4 rows went up. Then 3, and now just front row suddenly in a short period of time. We buy a seat higher in price because you'd like that experience. You get there, you are told you can't go up anymore but people that did not pay do because they are better looking, it's very disappointing when it’s possibly the last show you’ll ever see. You are at yr seat and watch everyone have fun at the stage when you thought you were going to stand there. You don’t seem to understand in the least.

Not all people 40 plus are dead and don't sing so basically enthusiastic older fans aren't welcome this last leg of the tour to stage only the 1st row assuming we are dead? LOL We had an expectation, not that they owe us but suddenly it just stopped?? People are upset because it’s not that no one gets to go and they stopped the practice, it stopped to make room for young girls. I think it's great that young people love their music and sing along. I took a 24 year old with me before and she said it was the best show she ever saw. I’ve talked and enjoyed the company of many young people at these shows over the years. It's not FM's security's fault, they are just doing as they are told.

As for the kiss, it's what we saw, not figment of the imagination..also saw hand kisses too, absolutely, maybe YOU missed something, it was quick but My friend and I looked at each other at the same time and just cracked up when it happened standing from an angle we were. He bent down and kissed on the lips and then hands flew up and he kissed those too AND shook hands and signed things prior. We saw him put the paper in his coat pocket too and fans do that all the time write notes to the artist. Also, the girl wanting Lindsey to sign her breasts said it was her arm she wanted signed. So see the “breast” thing was your perception. She was not hanging out of her shirt at all but she did seem a bit overserved and was not a youngster so there was an active older fan. LOL Lindsey did laugh.

We're all fans young and old that’s why anyone in the room is there but when you feel you've been put out to pasture and yr love for a band is longer than the kids are old that replaced you and you PAID to be close and waited many years to be able to finally do it..well it’s just a change that wasn’t welcomed. Lindsey can flirt all he wants WHO CARES but if 2nd and 3rd rows are now squeezed out for that reason to make room for that, then it’s become a problem to older fans. What if you paid $750 before you realized things had changed this leg to go to the stage but you were replaced with others that didn’t pay and were told to stay in yr seat someone better looking gets yr spot. You might be complaining too.

Going forward many of us know what to expect. Even 2nd row or 3rd means 6th or 7th row. We’re just supposed to understand and be satisfied with your explanation that young pretty girls are just more fun and to give up yr spot for that reason and just go be happy about it. The band is amazing, I will always love the band and the joy they have brought me to this point, however, it’s a bummer to go out this way when yr last show you got shot down to go to the stage and you waited months for it where any other year it was a given and it’s for the reason WHY.

Literally every single thing you've said in your post is either so completely untrue or inaccurate that I can't wrap my brain around how to even respond to you point-by-point, so I won't try. But honestly, please go get your eyes checked by a licensed ophthalmologist ASAP. I'm not kidding.

[BigBigLove]

I think some may disagree with you...
#1. They did shell out $750 for the entire experience. The meet and greet and the great seat were marketed and sold as a package deal.

#2. There is a reasonable expectation that a front row seat does not mean that additional people will be brought into your row and placed in front of you. A front row seat purchase comes with a reasonable expectation of unobstructed first row viewing. You ask what is the legal basis? You would need to consult an attorney regarding the law concerning "consumer purchases and reasonable expectation" so they can explain to you the law regarding consumer rights in the US. Only an attorney can answer that question.

.

I hear what you're saying but the problem is that, as others have pointed out today, the 'true' front row has literally 45 minutes worth of an opportunity to go up and stand right in front of the stage before any of the 'young girls' are brought up to the stage. If you have a 'front row' ticket and you don't make it to the stage before the girls are brought up (near the end of "The Chain,") then you don't have the right to complain. You had plenty of a chance.

Regarding the fact that rows 2-3 or 2-5 supposedly aren't allowed up, that has nothing to do with the girls being brought up. Even dating back to the 2013 tour, at some shows rows 1-5 were let up, at other shows rows 1-3 were let up, and at other shows only the front row was allowed up. It was much more dependent on the security of the venue than it was anyone employed by Fleetwood Mac or its associated entities, and the same is still true to this day. The people that are sending rows 2-5 back to their seats at the shows where that's happening don't work for Fleetwood Mac.

[teedeerocks]

It's fascinating to read this thread and see how people step forward speculating saying they saw something that didn't happen ("a folded paper was handed to him by one of the girls... and he tried to be discreet about it").

Now we have one that doesn't even claim to be speculation: "I can say that he kissed a girl on the lips last night when she asked for one." Not true! Where do you people come up with this stuff? There's no way that your memory of the event has deteriorated to the point that you're unintentionally bastardizing the truth, because it was just last night. I stood literally no more than three feet away from LB during the entire exchange at the show (hence how I was close enough to him to hand him a piece of paper) and watched him from right in front of his monitor for the remainder of the entire show. He did kiss several girls on the hand (including one who had to have been in her 40s). I found nothing sleazy about it.

During the "Gypsy" intro, he talked to five of us, including me, three young women, and one woman who was probably in her 40s if I had to guess. A few other people (including a man who was there with his girlfriend/wife/significant other) said various things to him that he acknowledged. He signed several autographs at that time. One woman (probably around 50 or so) jokingly called out to Lindsey to sign her breasts, and he smiled at her. Perhaps him interacting with the audience is disrespectful to Stevie, but as others have mentioned, the "Without You" intro from 2013 at least involved Lindsey, while the "Gypsy" story is much more self-indulgent.

I won't deny for a moment that Lindsey flirts with girls at his side of the stage, because he absolutely does. Having said that, I believe it's part of the act, as he also interacts with me a lot (and I'm a straight male as I mentioned in my previous post). Lindsey has been nothing but nice and extraordinarily gracious to me. I think he wants to see high energy people in the front and younger women are a fairly safe bet as far as that goes (I'm trying not to sound sexist here, but it's true).

On that note, the same can be said of Ian -- for someone who gets accused of having a one track mind (find 'hot' women and push them up front), Ian has been nothing but nice to me. I've been to so many shows at this point that he immediately recognizes me, shakes my hand, and asks me how I'm doing. Last night, he talked with me about how much he loves seeing fans like myself that travel all over the country/world for this band that we love so much. He's a very 'real' guy and he truly loves and admires Fleetwood Mac.

For what it's worth, I talked with a few of the young women you're talking about that were brought up to the stage last night. One of them had been to 7 shows on the current tour (and this was her first time up front). She knew the words to every song and was definitely a dedicated fan. I find that at least half of the people with 'genuine' front row seats who are 40+ years old know the words to less than half of the songs at best and seem rather uninterested in tracks like IKINW or OMH. Don't get me wrong, they've paid for their seat and deserve to be up there, but don't blame Lindsey for wanting to add high energy people into that mix. Before you think I'm being unfair in what I've said in this paragraph, know that I've paid for five Mick M&G tickets on the current tour alone and I'm not independently wealthy.

As for the folks that are saying they're going to start a class action lawsuit, I literally laughed out loud when I read your posts. I respect the fact that you're miffed, but you need to get two things straight:

1. You didn't pay Fleetwood Mac $750 for a seat. You paid Mick Fleetwood $750 for a "VIP experience" that happens to include one of the allotment of seats Mick is given as part of his touring contract. It's supplemental income for Mick, who gets paid less than the three songwriters for the live performance itself. None of that money goes to the venue or the rest of the band. Whether you like it or not, you're paying for the opportunity for the Meet & Greet with Mick, the 'exclusive tour merchandise,' signed photo, laminate, the opportunity to attend a Q&A with him, and the ticket. The "VIP" experience ends when you get sent back in line like every other ticket holder (like I said, I've been right there alongside many of you at several of these, so I'm speaking from experience). The notion that the venue, the band, or the band's staff owes any of us anything special during the concert itself is erroneous, period.

2. No concert ticket, whether "VIP" or not, comes with an implied warranty or guarantee of any kind so long as the performance itself actually takes place. What's the legal basis for your proposed suit (i.e. what is the accused infringement/law that's been broken?). Seriously, let's be logical about this. I heard a couple people saying they were going to demand a full refund when Mick got sick on stage a few weeks ago and the show had to be cut 45 minutes short or whatever. Did that make sense even when you were saying it to yourself in your head? Of course not.

If you don't want to go to the concert, then don't go. I've heard plenty of people saying that they weren't going because the tickets are simply too pricey for this tour (in some cases nearly double to what comparable tickets on the 2013 tour cost). I get it, and it's your right to stay at home. It's crazy how many people on here are saying that FM doesn't care at all about their fans. Granted, they play an identical setlist night after night and give the same speeches between songs, but they're still an incredibly great band that performs for 2.5+ hours without a single break. They've brought immeasurable joy to millions of people around the world and have changed the lives of many of us on this forum. It's OK to gripe and complain, but seriously, don't pretend to hate a band that has inspired and touched the world in various ways for 48 incredible years.

And if you really do honestly hate the band, feel free to click the "Log Out" button at the top right corner of this page and never come back.

Stevie's "Gypsy" speech is not self - indulgent.Like their entire setlist,these speeches are rehearsed and timed umpteen times and her speech allows for Lindsey's interaction time,which is all part of the show.Also,Lindsey's side conversations are for attention and will keep people buzzing about it - just look at us and this thread.Also,I am really envious of you for being able to travel around so much to celebrate these guys.That is something that I always wanted to do but it seems,after seeing them over the years 8 times,I can't seem to get out of the 3rd level in Philly or Atlantic City:(.Maybe if I hit the jackpot lottery we could hook up for their final tour!

[elle]

just a few things from my experience this year and last, some perhaps out of context of what others have been saying:

last year, i bought a number of Mick's tickets plus some way more expensive platinum tickets (where all that i was paying for was a front row center seat, not any VIP experience!). as everyone knows, last year more rows than just front were allowed to the stage. guess what? no matter how fast i ran to the stage right in front of me from that front row center seat, there were always at least several people with maybe 15th row face or 2nd row Mick's tickets (many of them here on TL) who tried their hardest to shove me aside. so there's more than one side to every argument. every time i had Mick's or platinum last year, i was worried that i shelled out all that money but was still not going to make it to the stage, and many times i had to stand where i didn't necessarily like it. i had 2nd row outer aisle Mick's ticket in Philly last year and was not allowed to go to the stage when lights went down by venue guards and you can read Eugene's funny description of me jumping over the chairs to get there. so not every Mick VIP ticket or 2nd row ticket was allowed to the stage last year either.

after last year's experiences i decided to just go with face this year, for any show i can get more-less ok tickets. yes face tickets are expensive too, but that's nothing like paying VIP prices, and the pressure to get to the stage is off - if i make it ok, if i don't i still have different and interesting view, or i may just skip the show all together.

regarding Lindsey, Ian, and "young pretty girls only" alleged policy: as BigBigLove said - he is a young guy, not a pretty 20 yo girl. it seems that in Newark on sunday practically almost everyone brought up was a huge fan, including several 20 yo girls by LB's mic - this was their 6th or 7th show on this tour, and in his Big Love speech LB referred to seeing them the night before at Mohegan. it was a mix of 20 year olds, young and old, 30, 40 and 50 year olds, girls and guys there at the stage, besides the front row people. the idea does seem to be to have energetic people at the stage who will lift the energy up for the whole show.

couple other things to consider / put this in a perspective:

most "younger bands" have GA floor, and at almost every single one of those shows there is a wide moat/railing with security guarding any access to the stage. so it quite possible you have LB to thank there's no moat at FM shows and you can actually get to the stage.
most older bands (although not all) have seated floor, and many don't allow people to move and go to the stage. at those shows most of the audience upfront is older and sits the whole show, there's no dancing. you have LB probably to thank too that this is not the case at FM shows, at least not at most of them.... although i've been to shows where LB's side is allowed to go up to the stage and Christine's side is not (possibly because of disabled seating being placed there, so not to obstruct their view).


it was interesting to watch what was happening on twitter throughout the day yesterday - people were reading accusations flying around here, and then people who were there at the stage started tweeting about what actually happened. this included the 20 yo girls who some people here seem to like accusing of various things. no, there was no lip kissing. yes, everyone at the stage had a great time. yes LB interacted extensively with various people at the stage, regardless of the age, gender, or how they were brought up there. and yes, he usually picks one or two people as the person he keeps coming back to the most during a specific show and showers them with attention. but no, nothing "untoward" happened and i don't think it ever does. most of the people that get to interact with LB during FM shows turn around on social media and do their staunchest to defend him afterwards. so attention goes both ways.

i have no qualms that people will attack what i wrote here, because every one of us seems to be looking at it from our own *me me me* view, but i'm trying to give it some wider perspective.

[APerfectLie]

Just another prime example of why concert ticket prices are absurd. I'll be seeing Fleetwood Mac March 1st, but I'll be a million rows back simply because I don't want to deal with the headache for Fleetwood Mac ever again. I'm ready for a solo Stevie tour again!

[SteveMacD]

I guess I don't get the appeal of being right up front. Unless you personally know the artist or could possibly get a beer out of it (not happening at a Mac show), what's the point? I've been up close, and it really didn't justify the exorbitant extra money charged for a ticket, IMO. YMMV.

[lovethemac1]

[QUOTE=BigBigLove;1160394]I hear what you're saying but the problem is that, as others have pointed out today, the 'true' front row has literally 45 minutes worth of an opportunity to go up and stand right in front of the stage before any of the 'young girls' are brought up to the stage. If you have a 'front row' ticket and you don't make it to the stage before the girls are brought up (near the end of "The Chain,") then you don't have the right to complain. You had plenty of a chance.

I'm sorry to point this out, but you are wrong about the show I was at. They were brought up before the lights went down.

[TsnFan4Ever]

It seems like the people who are asking "Who the Hell cares" are the ones who didn't pay $750 (or more) six months before the shows, expecting to be able to go to the front like they'd heard others excitedly talk about all last year, and then have FM's management decide that they weren't worthy of being in the front and have rows of people block their views.

The security staff in San Diego told us that it was the band's decision to only allow the first row up to the stage--not the venue's--and then Ian went around personally choosing the select few he wanted up there. For people who aren't able to see them 6 or 7 times this tour, this is very upsetting. If you were able to see them multiple times and were one of the chosen few, you will never understand--until you're older and it happens to you after you love a band your entire adult life and then have them cast you aside.

This leaves such a bad legacy for them that I hope this is their last tour.

[SteveMacD]

I saw them twice: for Chicago show, last row center, and Columbus, still not on the floor. Great shows. I had to see Christine at least two more times, but I guess I just don't get the need to be right in the very first row. Then again, the band is always been about music and the story for me.

[michelej1]

as everyone knows, last year more rows than just front were allowed to the stage. guess what? no matter how fast i ran to the stage right in front of me from that front row center seat, there were always at least several people with maybe 15th row face or 2nd row Mick's tickets (many of them here on TL) who tried their hardest to shove me aside.

These comments make me feel pretty good about my own speed. Apparently, I've still got that hustle. I don't like standing because it can only be done at some one else's expense, to their detriment. And sadly, most people don't just stand. They flail and jump and are otherwise obnoxious. I like to see the band at a concert, not someone's outflung elbow. I don't approve of it. But these venues make standing a necessity and in England I was able to stand right under Christine for both of her cameo appearances last year. Now, I realize that was no small feat!

Michele

[twinmatrix]

I guess I don't get the appeal of being right up front. Unless you personally know the artist or could possibly get a beer out of it (not happening at a Mac show), what's the point? I've been up close, and it really didn't justify the exorbitant extra money charged for a ticket, IMO. YMMV.

Because you can get eye contact and more connection with the singers instead of just watching them from a big distance as if you're watching a DVD. :)

[elle]

It seems like the people who are asking "Who the Hell cares" are the ones who didn't pay $750 (or more) six months before the shows, expecting to be able to go to the front like they'd heard others excitedly talk about all last year, and then have FM's management decide that they weren't worthy of being in the front and have rows of people block their views.

ok just to get something straight:

if you are SN fan who for whatever reason bought VIP ticket on LB's side, you will not even see her if you go to the stage right under Lindsey's mic - which is where fans are brought up from the back. you need to stand a bit back from the stage, otherwise all you will see is Lindsey. if you want to interact with LB during the show, then you may or may not have a problem if you are in the 2nd or 3rd row and there will be people in front of you. if you are on Stevie's/Christine's side, that's NOT where rows of people are brought up or blocking your view.

[reebokandlace]

It seems like the people who are asking "Who the Hell cares" are the ones who didn't pay $750 (or more) six months before the shows, expecting to be able to go to the front like they'd heard others e is very upsetting.

This leaves such a bad legacy for them that I hope this is their last tour.

I agree with everything you said.

Their actions show their true faces behind the masks.

.

[Newzchspy]

Because you can get eye contact and more connection with the singers instead of just watching them from a big distance as if you're watching a DVD. :)

Perhaps you're correct, BUT its near impossible with all the lights for the "performer" to even see you unless they step beyond the lights. My neighbor, who sets up stages in Chicago for the UC and Allstate arena says that when the lights are on the performer, its almost like being blinded and they can see very little beyond where they are standing.

[jkmaletic]

Perhaps you're correct, BUT its near impossible with all the lights for the "performer" to even see you unless they step beyond the lights. My neighbor, who sets up stages in Chicago for the UC and Allstate arena says that when the lights are on the performer, its almost like being blinded and they can see very little beyond where they are standing.

I agree with that, to an extent. But to say that it's near impossible... I disagree. It probably depends on the type of light, direction it's coming, etc.
In December I was in the front row and I got clear eye contact, nods and smiles from Christine, Stevie and Lindsey.
For me, being in the front row, at the stage is fun. But I actually prefer about 3rd row. I'd trade anyone here front row for third in a heartbeat.

[michelej1]

To me, Stevie and Lindsey seem to see into the audience just fine, even when they are standing at their mics and certainly when they come to the foot of the stage.

I'm not sure about Christine. But I've seen the other 2 make contact and they notice things when it comes to people in the first rows. For instance if there's a child at the front, Stevie definitely sees that child and acknowledges it with a smile or nod. The one time Lindsey said to me, "I like your shirt" I wasn't even close to the stage.

Michele

[lovethemac1]

To me, Stevie and Lindsey seem to see into the audience just fine, even when they are standing at their mics and certainly when they come to the foot of the stage.

I'm not sure about Christine. But I've seen the other 2 make contact and they notice things when it comes to people in the first rows. For instance if there's a child at the front, Stevie definitely sees that child and acknowledges it with a smile or nod. The one time Lindsey said to me, "I like your shirt" I wasn't even close to the stage.

Michele

What was on your shirt?

[TsnFan4Ever]

Elle,

I had second row center--which would have had a perfect view of Stevie if there weren't lots of people brought up from the back to be placed right in front of us while they made those of us who paid for the VIP seats in the 2nd row stay at our seats. Because so many people were on Lindsey's side, lots of people came over to the center section and crowded in so that our second row seat became essentially a 6th or 7th row seat. What's especially upsetting is that last year and even the first few concerts this year, the people in the first few rows were allowed to go up to the stage. If I had known that we were not going to be allowed to do the same, I would have never wasted my money on the VIP ticket.

[Dustmybroom]

I witnessed the bands security guy take a group of about 15 to 20 young teenage girls from the foyer right to the front of the stage in front of LB, this guy then refused me to go to the front from my 3rd row seat.

Who are these girls? Where do they find so many young girls that want to see Fleetwood Mac? I am sure they dont even know who the band is. Do they get paid ? How do these guys get away with this behaviour? There is something way wrong with this set up. We have paid high prices for great seats and unless we stand we dont see over the gaggle of boozed up girls flirting with LB! I dont mind standing but at least let people who have paid high prices the choice to be at the front. The venue security have no control over this activity, it is purely the bands security that dictates who gets to the stage.

I am quite disgusted and will be writing a strong letter to the Mac organisation. I realise this topic has been discussed on other threads but to be honest I didnt believe it was real as hadn't seen with my own eyes and I have been to quite a few shows in the past.

It has been much harder to get to the front stage on this tour. On past tours I have always got to the front with ease. Anybody else experienced this?

[KarmaContestant]

I realise this topic has been discussed on other threads but to be honest I didnt believe it was real as hadn't seen with my own eyes and I have been to quite a few shows in the past.



Like this one:
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=52665&highlight=security+shoving+girls+front+lindsey

[SorcererJP]

Soon happy my both Amsterdam-concerts were general admission, so mr. Buckingham had to stare at an 45-year old , short, 50-shades of greyhaired guy, with a little overweight at least one night :-)

At these concerts there were lot's of 'young' people, so to pull some young people (and hey, even an 65 year old loves young blondes) would not be that difficicult.

I guess the band just want's enthusiastic, responsive people to play for. In Antwerp I was in the tiers and there where numbered seats on the floor as well (have said it before just don't get it), ALL of the people there kept sitting almost the entire show. Only a small crowd in front of the stage had a ball ... so why not script that as well as the rest of the show?

Yeah, the 'I paid a lot for these tickets' arguments. I understand, but if you paid to be seated all the time. Just buy the DVD!

[mtkad]

Could be worse. At Billy Joel gigs they don't sell the front 2 rows. It was originally to stop rich folks taking them up because they could, and not being exactly enthusiastic. So the road crew go to the cheap seats and hand out tickets, but Billy Joel's road crew being all men, those 2 rows go solely to attractive young woman and maybe the odd boyfriend. Billy's even admitted that this happens!

But yeah back to the point, at the gig the other night it was front row only. The last 2 times it was a bit more free roam. Not quite sure what's made them make that decision this tour!

[singertobe]

Someone call the wife!

[michelej1]

Yeah, the 'I paid a lot for these tickets' arguments. I understand, but if you paid to be seated all the time. Just buy the DVD!

There is no dvd of this concert. No DVD of all 5 since 1997. So, I can understand people paying good money to be seated and have a great view of the reunited Fleetwood Mac.

Michele

[Macfan4life]

Could be worse. At Billy Joel gigs they don't sell the front 2 rows. It was originally to stop rich folks taking them up because they could, and not being exactly enthusiastic. So the road crew go to the cheap seats and hand out tickets, but Billy Joel's road crew being all men, those 2 rows go solely to attractive young woman and maybe the odd boyfriend. Billy's even admitted that this happens!

But yeah back to the point, at the gig the other night it was front row only. The last 2 times it was a bit more free roam. Not quite sure what's made them make that decision this tour!
I like the part of not selling the 2 front rows and giving them to the fans. That's a great idea. During Stevie's 1998 Enchanted tour was the only time I paid a fortune for the first few rows. There was a couple in front of me that left halfway through the concert like they were bored or something.
But I got to touch BOTH of Stevie's hands so the money was well worth it :eek:

[wayner]

Well.... now with Lindsey gone maybe we will see the end of this, was always annoying to pay large sums of $$ for front row tickets only to have 'Mr Clean' bring other members of audience up and put them right at the stage ...

[jkmaletic]

Well.... now with Lindsey gone maybe we will see the end of this, was always annoying to pay large sums of $$ for front row tickets only to have 'Mr Clean' bring other members of audience up and put them right at the stage ...

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: So funny that this thread has reared its ugly head again! "Mr. Clean" :lol:

I was thinking about this the other day. Too funny.

Jamie

[elle]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: So funny that this thread has reared its ugly head again! "Mr. Clean" :lol:

I was thinking about this the other day. Too funny.

Jamie

Jamie, you know i love you girl, but you've been kinda trolling the last few days.

[jkmaletic]

Jamie, you know i love you girl, but you've been kinda trolling the last few days.

That's the first time anyone's ever told me I was "trolling". :laugh:
Maybe I've been spending too much time on the Ledge lately. I can't help it though, it's all the Fleetwood Mac news - I can't stay away!

Truly sorry if I've offended anyone including you, Elle. I mean no harm. :woohoo:

[GypsySorcerer]

I feel like this thread's title is a lot funnier that it probably gets credit for. :)

[jbrownsjr]

I feel like this thread's title is a lot funnier that it probably gets credit for. :)

It really is... I chuckled when I saw it pop back up.

[rhiannondontgo]

Not gonna lie - my first thought when I heard that LB was fired was “oh ****, guess I won’t be brought up to the front anymore”. Gonna miss all those nights at his mic stand. He was so sweet to us girls every time, I’ll always cherish those memories.

[sodascouts]

I was in my 30s and not hot, but I managed to slip in with you guys because I knew where you gathered, and I never got sent back - I think he was embarrassed to say "No, Lindsey only wants women younger and prettier than you up front" because then he would have to explain why and it would have been oh-so-awkward, lol. I will miss it, too, but I always did feel a little weird taking advantage of it. Not weird enough not to do it, though...

[dreamsunwind]

Not gonna lie - my first thought when I heard that LB was fired was “oh ****, guess I won’t be brought up to the front anymore”. Gonna miss all those nights at his mic stand. He was so sweet to us girls every time, I’ll always cherish those memories.

He was really good to my friends too. During some of Stevie's longer speeches he'd sit on his speaker and chat with them.

[HomerMcvie]

He was really good to my friends too. During some of Stevie's longer speeches he'd sit on his speaker and chat with them.

Nothing says "exciting" in a show, like someone giving such a long speech that the other performers have time to go sit and chat with fans.:laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

Nothing says "exciting" in a show, like someone giving such a long speech that the other performers have time to go sit and chat with fans.:laugh:

It was reflected in a solo show review that I read. People came for the music. A little banter is fun. But, to talk about yourself incessantly like that is annoying.
I read at one show people left early because of it. And in fact, the show was good except for that.

I like Stevie in FMac and most of her early career. I just don't like what she has become as a person. And it's reflected in her un-imagination. She sees herself instead of just being herself.

[sodascouts]

I have to admit, I've seen that as a problem with Stevie more and more, too.

It's like with "Soldier's Angel." She says she's going to "tell [the] stories" of soldiers but actually... she spends most of the song praising herself. She sings about how much she helps them "back into the light", despite how terribly difficult is it for her and how it "tears her apart" to visit them, but she bravely carries on because she is a soldier, too. It shows how even when she is coming from a good place, she still can't help but make it about herself.

[gldstwmn]

Well.... now with Lindsey gone maybe we will see the end of this, was always annoying to pay large sums of $$ for front row tickets only to have 'Mr Clean' bring other members of audience up and put them right at the stage ...

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Applauds.

[wondergirl9847]

I have to admit, I've seen that as a problem with Stevie more and more, too.

It's like with "Soldier's Angel." She says she's going to "tell [the] stories" of soldiers but actually... she spends most of the song praising herself. She sings about how much she helps them "back into the light", despite how terribly difficult is it for her and how it "tears her apart" to visit them, but she bravely carries on because she is a soldier, too. It shows how even when she is coming from a good place, she still can't help but make it about herself.

I love the song, but that is my main issue with it. It's same thing with Illume, another song I like, melody and production-wise. I guess that's one reason I am not a die-hard Stevie fan. Some of her stuff...I cannot identify with. She talks about things from her perspective of being a rock star. People talk about Lindsey's lyrics a lot and how pedestrian they are, but that is why I can identify with them. :shrug:

Landslide, Beautiful Child, Storms...those are three off the top of my head that hit me like a ton of bricks.

[button-lip]

He was really good to my friends too. During some of Stevie's longer speeches he'd sit on his speaker and chat with them.

So, he wasn't just interested in young blonde girls?! He actually likes talking with fans?! Shocking! :]:]

You know, that behavior was labeled by some Stevie's fans as abusive... I'm not kidding. Just because he wasn't listening to her long speeches he was being abusive. :shocked::shocked:

[elle]

our poor resident troll-ess nothing works for her. she keeps putting on top these threads where she thinks people will get inspired to dump on LB, and instead those threads turn into fawning over how nice he's been to everyone and how much people will miss interacting with him.

yes, it was not only young and not only blonde and not only girls.

his guys used to call it - fill the negative space. because on previous tours rich people in front rows who couldn't care less about FM's music would fall asleep in the middle of the show and LB would be - wtf? so yeah, he wanted to fill that "negative space" with lots of energy, and many fans who couldn't afford expensive tix got to go up to the stage, sing and jump around, chat with LB during long song intros, and get their albums and other stuff signed.

[jbrownsjr]

our poor resident troll-ess nothing works for her. she keeps putting on top these threads where she thinks people will get inspired to dump on LB, and instead those threads turn into fawning over how nice he's been to everyone and how much people will miss interacting with him.

yes, it was not only young and not only blonde and not only girls.

his guys used to call it - fill the negative space. because on previous tours rich people in front rows who couldn't care less about FM's music would fall asleep in the middle of the show and LB would be - wtf? so yeah, he wanted to fill that "negative space" with lots of energy, and many fans who couldn't afford expensive tix got to go up to the stage, sing and jump around, chat with LB during long song intros, and get their albums and other stuff signed.

What a horrible man!

[jkmaletic]

It wasn't me. :distress:

I was just laughing that it came back around. Heck, my wife and I benefitted from this at a San Diego show. I can't complain. :)

[wondergirl9847]

Well, during the filming of LB's Fort Worth Bass Hall DVD, there were empty seats on the front row. He asked his people (some lady?) to fill in the seats with some excited folks....it just happened to be one of our Ledgies and her friend that got the privilege! They are pretty ladies, but not young, hot blondes. LOL They were just excited to be there and showed it. When they moved over, my mom and I moved to their spots, which were front row, on the far left side (my mom and I were on the second row, FAR, FAR left). Eventually, we all moved to the stage, of course.

The FW audience was mostly dead as a doornail, unfortunately, but there were a few of us who were hoopin', hollerin', dancin' and enjoying every moment. :)

[elle]

It wasn't me. :distress:

I was just laughing that it came back around. Heck, my wife and I benefitted from this at a San Diego show. I can't complain. :)

lol i know, not you!

ha there you go.

[Storms123]

I am not "hot" or "Young", but am big fan of the band. My BROTHER (also not hot or young) and I happened to be at the right place at the right time and we were offered the chance to move up front. Lindsey, playing aside (which was amazing to see up close) was awesome to all of us up there. Signing things, chatting and just very appreciative of the fans and the support.

[lovethemac1]

My husband and I had front row tickets to a show 2015. We were beyond excited as we were directly in front of Lindsey. They brought in the Happy go lucky young women, but it was fine. We danced along with them. I had my hands on the stage at Lindsey’s feet, and he interacted with my husband and myself more than once!! My husband was calling things to him and they interacted about the fact that my husband told him that I was his #1 fan!! Then, while he was sitting over on the side of the stage, he kept flashing me thumbs up signs and then would giggle. So I would giggle. I loved him that night!! He was so interactive with fans. That band will be sorely lacking in character without him. It’s been what? 8-9 days and I still feel sick and sad every time I think that he won’t be there. It’s truly heartbreaking. :distress:

[Street_Dreamer]

I have to admit, I've seen that as a problem with Stevie more and more, too.

It's like with "Soldier's Angel." She says she's going to "tell [the] stories" of soldiers but actually... she spends most of the song praising herself. She sings about how much she helps them "back into the light", despite how terribly difficult is it for her and how it "tears her apart" to visit them, but she bravely carries on because she is a soldier, too. It shows how even when she is coming from a good place, she still can't help but make it about herself.

Let's not forget that she has said being in Fleetwood Mac was akin to being in the Army several times but whatever...

[gldstwmn]

What a horrible man!

LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM: Don't put any old hags in front of me!

[button-lip]

My husband and I had front row tickets to a show 2015. We were beyond excited as we were directly in front of Lindsey. They brought in the Happy go lucky young women, but it was fine. We danced along with them. I had my hands on the stage at Lindsey’s feet, and he interacted with my husband and myself more than once!! My husband was calling things to him and they interacted about the fact that my husband told him that I was his #1 fan!! Then, while he was sitting over on the side of the stage, he kept flashing me thumbs up signs and then would giggle. So I would giggle. I loved him that night!! He was so interactive with fans. That band will be sorely lacking in character without him. It’s been what? 8-9 days and I still feel sick and sad every time I think that he won’t be there. It’s truly heartbreaking. :distress:

Beautiful story. :xoxo::xoxo::xoxo:

[elle]

LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM:

how are you not tired of going around spewing bs? so much hate in you, it seems!

[HomerMcvie]

LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM: Don't put any old hags in front of me!

I'm not certain where La Mer is, but I hope he doesn't have any concerts booked there.

[TrueFaith77]

LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM: Don't put any old hags in front of me!

I wasn’t going to jump in but honestly I cannot fathom why you are gloating over and rubbing in Lindsey’s firing at every opportunity.

Leave. Us. Alone.

[gldstwmn]

I wasn’t going to jump in but honestly I cannot fathom why you are gloating over and rubbing in Lindsey’s firing at every opportunity.

Leave. Us. Alone.
And that's all the Stevie fans wanted but they have faced such hatred here that most of them have left. And that was gloated over. And over again. I for one will absolutely not leave. But you are free to ignore or scroll past me. Or is this forum now exclusively for Lindsey fans? Are you so consumed in your grief that you have no objectivity? Just like the other haters with the Stevie screen names? Like I said I feel like I'm at a funeral. He's not dead. Wouldn't you all rather see him without her anyway?

[gldstwmn]

I have to admit, I've seen that as a problem with Stevie more and more, too.

It's like with "Soldier's Angel." She says she's going to "tell [the] stories" of soldiers but actually... she spends most of the song praising herself. She sings about how much she helps them "back into the light", despite how terribly difficult is it for her and how it "tears her apart" to visit them, but she bravely carries on because she is a soldier, too. It shows how even when she is coming from a good place, she still can't help but make it about herself.

What did Lindsey do for the soldiers again?

[gldstwmn]

how are you not tired of going around spewing bs? so much hate in you, it seems!

I have only love. :wavey: Plus it's fun watching all five of you Lindsey supporters desperately trying to preserve your narrative. Burn the witch!

[button-lip]

And that's all the Stevie fans wanted but they have faced such hatred here that most of them have left. And that was gloated over. And over again. I for one will absolutely not leave. But you are free to ignore or scroll past me. Or is this forum now exclusively for Lindsey fans? Are you so consumed in your grief that you have no objectivity? Just like the other haters with the Stevie screen names? Like I said I feel like I'm at a funeral. He's not dead. Wouldn't you all rather see him without her anyway?

I'd rather see him in his band as its musical director. And on his solo project.

And she could have taken Tom's place on the Heartbreakers. But of course she couldn't let Lindsey have his farewell tour. She couldn't.

[gldstwmn]

I'm not certain where La Mer is, but I hope he doesn't have any concerts booked there.

You reap what you sow.

[HomerMcvie]

You reap what you sow.

Sounds like there's a crazy farmer in your past then.

[sodascouts]

What did Lindsey do for the soldiers again?

I wasn't trying to compare her to Lindsey; I never said she did less than Lindsey.

What happened to you? I don't remember you being like this when I was a regular on here. Admittedly, that was many years ago... but I don't remember you attacking Lindsey at every opportunity.

[Feather Blade]

And that's all the Stevie fans wanted but they have faced such hatred here that most of them have left. And that was gloated over. And over again. I for one will absolutely not leave. But you are free to ignore or scroll past me. Or is this forum now exclusively for Lindsey fans? Are you so consumed in your grief that you have no objectivity? Just like the other haters with the Stevie screen names? Like I said I feel like I'm at a funeral. He's not dead. Wouldn't you all rather see him without her anyway?

I appreciate you speaking up against some of the childish nastiness coming from a select few whose level of hysteria about this situation (whatever it may be as we STILL have no official story and no, "he said, she said" isn't an official story); is truly disturbing. I keep coming back to this forum in hopes of actually seeing some real news and instead have to wade through page after page of ridiculous grade-school level insults coming from the same little group. Calm down and stop acting like the antics of some pampered millionaires means anything at all to your real lives. Ughh, drop the pitchforks and torches, this is really exhausting. Can't we have some adult conversation? Incidentally, speaking of people who got disgusted with the atmosphere and left, does Skip ever visit anymore? He always seemed to never have a harsh word to say to anyone and I hadn't seen him on here in forever. I hope there wasn't a health issue or something.

[NotonRodeo]

The "official" story? From THIS band? :rolleyes: The "official" line debuting next week will be one lie and platitude after another. I'd rather hear gossip and name calling than listen to the icon babble meaninglessly and disingenuously and, to be blunt, untruthfully.

[button-lip]

I appreciate you speaking up against some of the childish nastiness coming from a select few whose level of hysteria about this situation (whatever it may be as we STILL have no official story and no, "he said, she said" isn't an official story); is truly disturbing. I keep coming back to this forum in hopes of actually seeing some real news and instead have to wade through page after page of ridiculous grade-school level insults coming from the same little group. Calm down and stop acting like the antics of some pampered millionaires means anything at all to your real lives. Ughh, drop the pitchforks and torches, this is really exhausting. Can't we have some adult conversation? Incidentally, speaking of people who got disgusted with the atmosphere and left, does Skip ever visit anymore? He always seemed to never have a harsh word to say to anyone and I hadn't seen him on here in forever. I hope there wasn't a health issue or something.

You don't know what they mean to me, or to any of us.

The grade-school level insults are from both sides. If not, they would have stopped a long time ago.

Keep waiting for that "official story".

[SisterNightroad]

I appreciate you speaking up against some of the childish nastiness coming from a select few whose level of hysteria about this situation (whatever it may be as we STILL have no official story and no, "he said, she said" isn't an official story); is truly disturbing. I keep coming back to this forum in hopes of actually seeing some real news and instead have to wade through page after page of ridiculous grade-school level insults coming from the same little group. Calm down and stop acting like the antics of some pampered millionaires means anything at all to your real lives. Ughh, drop the pitchforks and torches, this is really exhausting. Can't we have some adult conversation? Incidentally, speaking of people who got disgusted with the atmosphere and left, does Skip ever visit anymore? He always seemed to never have a harsh word to say to anyone and I hadn't seen him on here in forever. I hope there wasn't a health issue or something.
If I remember well Vivfox has seen him at a Stevie show last year and said he seemed to be pretty well but still wanted to stay away from the web for the time being.

[Feather Blade]

The "official" story? From THIS band? :rolleyes: The "official" line debuting next week will be one lie and platitude after another. I'd rather hear gossip and name calling than listen to the icon babble meaninglessly and disingenuously and, to be blunt, untruthfully.

That "gossip and name calling" seems to be tailored to support specific narratives that people would like to be true based on their particular prejudices.
(just like your apparent prejudice to assume anything "babbled" out of "the icon's" mouth would be as you seem to believe, an untruth) I think I'd rather wait for someone who was in the room who doesn't happen to be on team anybody. There has to be an objective journalistic source out there somewhere who can and will say what happened. Until then, I don't see much value in bringing up Stevie's attitudes about Lindsey, Mick's abilities to handle money, whether Christine's enthusiasm about recording with Lindsey was real or just a ploy to sell records, or dredging up Lindsey's reportedly rocky past with women. None of it gets anyone one inch closer to knowing what happened. Maybe when there is real news, tour dates etc. it will give people something to talk about that doesn't involve all this backbiting.

[gldstwmn]

I wasn't trying to compare her to Lindsey; I never said she did less than Lindsey.

What happened to you? I don't remember you being like this when I was a regular on here. Admittedly, that was many years ago... but I don't remember you attacking Lindsey at every opportunity.

I didn't and I don't want to now. I'm just trying to make a point about the Stevie hatred around here (not by everyone mind you). I don't actually dislike Lindsey. I just think he was far worse to Stevie than I ever realized. :shrug: Like I said I think he did this to himself. People's visceral reaction to this turn of events and their speed at making Stevie a scapegoat didn't sit well with me.

[gldstwmn]

I appreciate you speaking up against some of the childish nastiness coming from a select few whose level of hysteria about this situation (whatever it may be as we STILL have no official story and no, "he said, she said" isn't an official story); is truly disturbing. I keep coming back to this forum in hopes of actually seeing some real news and instead have to wade through page after page of ridiculous grade-school level insults coming from the same little group. Calm down and stop acting like the antics of some pampered millionaires means anything at all to your real lives. Ughh, drop the pitchforks and torches, this is really exhausting. Can't we have some adult conversation? Incidentally, speaking of people who got disgusted with the atmosphere and left, does Skip ever visit anymore? He always seemed to never have a harsh word to say to anyone and I hadn't seen him on here in forever. I hope there wasn't a health issue or something.

I do apologize if my tactics have upset you. Thank you for this. There are so many threads that it is hard to keep track. I'm not sure who Skip is. Was that their screen name? :sorry:

[Feather Blade]

You don't know what they mean to me, or to any of us.

The grade-school level insults are from both sides. If not, they would have stopped a long time ago.

Keep waiting for that "official story".

With all due respect, these people are not family, friends or even neighbors. While we can certainly admire and respect their body of work, we don't have to feel the need to go to war with others over a perceived slight to them. They certainly don't need us. Well, nothing other than our wallets that is. :) Also, I'm not at all certain that the insults would stop if it wasn't for a few voices of dissent. I have seen vast swathes of thread space dedicated to a few of the same people back-slapping each other over coming up with the meanest thing to say. They certainly don't seem to need anyone other than themselves.

[Feather Blade]

If I remember well Vivfox has seen him at a Stevie show last year and said he seemed to be pretty well but still wanted to stay away from the web for the time being.

That's good. I am glad to hear he is/was ok.

[Feather Blade]

I do apologize if my tactics have upset you. Thank you for this. There are so many threads that it is hard to keep track. I'm not sure who Skip is. Was that their screen name? :sorry:

No, no, you didn't upset me at all, in fact, I was saying that I appreciate that you are willing to step up and be a voice of reason against some of the nastiness that this place has been plagued with for a good while now, but in particular this past week or so. You are probably right, a lot of the voices that would have been a reality check on those who are willing to run so quickly with rumor and speculation have probably left this forum because of the negativity. Based on what SisterNightroad said above, it sounds like Skip was one of them.