Stevie discusses Possible New

[olive]

Full Album

Based on Fans ( ugh the bbw's and there husbands who came to hear Dreams and Rhiannon and will go pee and get beer when new songs are preformed ) Reaction to new songs on this Tour

http://www.nme.com/news/fleetwood-mac/68746

[Ulpian]

Full Album

Based on Fans ( ugh the bbw's and there husbands who came to hear Dreams and Rhiannon and will go pee and get beer when new songs are preformed ) Reaction to new songs on this Tour

http://www.nme.com/news/fleetwood-mac/68746

This is a bit daft, but given that she is completely out of touch I'm not surprised. I'd be disappointed if nothing at all was released; they are not going to get an arena-full of fans screaming loud for the new material. Only some of us will do that, and we are a minority ;)

[elle]

This is a bit daft, but given that she is completely out of touch I'm not surprised. I'd be disappointed if nothing at all was released; they are not going to get an arena-full of fans screaming loud for the new material. Only some of us will do that, and we are a minority ;)

yes, i wish this woman would maybe from time to time look at the calendar and realize it's 2013 and that her 30 year old logic has some serious flaws.

"we will give you new music if you LOVE what we release but not just LIKE it"?? :laugh: seriously??:rolleyes: how do you measure this love Stevie? by the number of downloads? by happy screams of people? by reviews? just curious... :shrug:

if you are an artist and have the need to create and put out new music then you do it, whether or not people buy it or love it. maybe they'll love it now or rediscover it 5 years down the road... and maybe they won't. but you are moving forward and being creative. :thumbsup:

however, if you are just putting out new music for money and commercial success (which you were lucky enough to get in troves and can still reel in millions by touring and royalties anyway... so why do you need huge sales of new music??), than don't claim that you are still an artist, please. :sorry:

[olive]

yes, i wish this woman would maybe from time to time look at the calendar and realize it's 2013 and that her 30 year old logic has some serious flaws.

"we will give you new music if you LOVE what we release but not just LIKE it"?? :laugh: seriously??:rolleyes: how do you measure this love Stevie? by the number of downloads? by happy screams of people? by reviews? just curious... :shrug:

if you are an artist and have the need to create and put out new music then you do it, whether or not people buy it or love it. maybe they'll love it now or rediscover it 5 years down the road... and maybe they won't. but you are moving forward and being creative. :thumbsup:

however, if you are just putting out new music for money and commercial success (which you were lucky enough to get in troves and can still reel in millions by touring and royalties anyway... so why do you need huge sales of new music??), than don't claim that you are still an artist, please. :sorry:

well put! so sad that at this point in her career it's about the dollar

[WildHearted]

well put! so sad that at this point in her career it's about the dollar

Half the time I think it's more about the possibility of rejection than it is the money.

[vivfox]

well put! so sad that at this point in her career it's about the dollar


It has always been about the dollar in her career.

[michelej1]

Well, the good news is, even if Stevie doesn't want to do FM songs, she seems rejuvenated about new material in her solo career. So, there's a good chance her fans will be getting some of that.

Michele

[GarboSpeaks!]

All replies very well put. Think of the some of us out there that still ask her about her Rhiannon film, or the release of GF&LB...it's like she strings these things out to hear what we say, which in turn will make the decision for her. OBVIOUSLY if we are still interested (enough to ask, write about, discuss on boards) 30+ effing years ago...we'd go apes&it for a new album.
I would also venture to say that any new album she makes would in her mind be "for the fans" first and formost as she wants to do that album for her mother, and probably figures that no one but the fans would want it. Hey my dearly beloved Nicks...how about if YOU want to make it...make the album, sing the song, wtf ever and screw what others think. Take a leap...you aren't getting any younger. Nor am I for that matter. lol I'd like to see some more projects before I'm in the nursing home!

[SteveMacD]

however, if you are just putting out new music for money and commercial success (which you were lucky enough to get in troves and can still reel in millions by touring and royalties anyway... so why do you need huge sales of new music??), than don't claim that you are still an artist, please. :sorry:
BINGO!

Half the time I think it's more about the possibility of rejection than it is the money.
Well, then, I have a bridge or two I'd like to sell you.

[redbird]

Well I'd think a low-selling album (for FM standards) would make more money than no album at all, unless I'm very off in my conception of how much it costs to record, release and promote a studio album. Did SYW make a profit (tour aside)?

It seems to me that there's a fear of diminishing of "the brand" thing going on, she would rather not see Fleetwood Mac reduced to a sidenote. Not to say that Stevie Nicks does not enjoy being rich.

[Lilyfan]

yes, i wish this woman would maybe from time to time look at the calendar and realize it's 2013 and that her 30 year old logic has some serious flaws.

"we will give you new music if you LOVE what we release but not just LIKE it"?? :laugh: seriously??:rolleyes: how do you measure this love Stevie? by the number of downloads? by happy screams of people? by reviews? just curious... :shrug:

if you are an artist and have the need to create and put out new music then you do it, whether or not people buy it or love it. maybe they'll love it now or rediscover it 5 years down the road... and maybe they won't. but you are moving forward and being creative. :thumbsup:

however, if you are just putting out new music for money and commercial success (which you were lucky enough to get in troves and can still reel in millions by touring and royalties anyway... so why do you need huge sales of new music??), than don't claim that you are still an artist, please. :sorry:

I think that she just really doesn't want to make new music with FM and so she's trying out excuses to get out of it. That might be as much a way of trying to get away from the manipulations as it is about the music. I think she wants to make another solo album.

[shackin'up]

You know? Lindsey has searched for collaboration with an outside producer, Mick John and Lindsey played their asses off to make new Macmusic. I really think she's not very respectful towards that work by talking this way. She may not want to record new Macmusic, but hey, there are three guys that already made a Fleetwood Mac album for 75 %.

[michelej1]

I think that she just really doesn't want to make new music with FM and so she's trying out excuses to get out of it. That might be as much a way of trying to get away from the manipulations as it is about the music. I think she wants to make another solo album.

I agree. She seems really hyped to do solo material and collaborations. So, her fans will get the benefit of that.

Her comments about FM are nonsense excuses. It would be helpful if she'd just say she didn't want to record with them or she has a hangnail or something, because the "fans don't want to hear it" line is an increasingly weak rationale.

Michele

[shackin'up]

I agree. She seems really hyped to do solo material and collaborations. So, her fans will get the benefit of that.

Her comments about FM are nonsense excuses. It would be helpful if she'd just say she didn't want to record with them or she has a hangnail or something, because the "fans don't want to hear it" line is an increasingly weak rationale.

Michele

But is that attitude not very disrespectful towards the rest of the band?

[michelej1]

But is that attitude not very disrespectful towards the rest of the band?

The attitude of not wanting to record with them? It might be disrespectful, but I don't think she should be recording under duress. Then, we'd only have to hear her complain about the process for the next million years. I want her to want to be there. But that desire can't be forced and shouldn't even be cajoled. If she doesn't want to record new music with them, let it go. I don't want anyone begging her any more than they have already.

If certain curly-headed people would work with Mick and put their minds to having another woman record with them . . . I think we'd get somewhere. We'd go from 75% to 100% album.

Michele

[Ulpian]

if you are an artist and have the need to create and put out new music then you do it, whether or not people buy it or love it. maybe they'll love it now or rediscover it 5 years down the road... and maybe they won't. but you are moving forward and being creative. :thumbsup:

however, if you are just putting out new music for money and commercial success (which you were lucky enough to get in troves and can still reel in millions by touring and royalties anyway... so why do you need huge sales of new music??), than don't claim that you are still an artist, please. :sorry:

Both Lindsey and Christine have kept their artistic credentials by releasing solo albums they anticipated would only sell to a narrow part of the market. Although both different people, they did it not for profit but because they wanted people to hear the music.

When I hear Mick and Stevie talk about the music industry in recent interviews I'm unsurprised but still a bit disappointed that they appear only to look at putting music out as a material exercise. Otherwise "we will just make music for ourselves". It leaves a very bad taste in the mouth and really makes me lose respect for those two.

[michelej1]

Otherwise "we will just make music for ourselves". It leaves a very bad taste in the mouth and really makes me lose respect for those two.

What do you think that means? Do you think she meant that she would just make music and keep it to herself to listen to at home and not release it anywhere or . . . that she would just release music and not care if anyone bought it or not.

I wasn't exactly clear.

Michele

[Ulpian]

What do you think that means? Do you think she meant that she would just make music and keep it to herself to listen to at home and not release it anywhere or . . . that she would just release music and not care if anyone bought it or not.

I wasn't exactly clear.

Michele

I took it to mean that they would not release it. It seems to me quite a spiteful comment that was not meant to mean that they would release music independently.

[redbird]

I always thought her reluctance to record with FM has a lot to do with how they used to undervalue her, the tensions that happen when working with Lindsey, how she feels her opinion doesn't count as much since she doesn't play an instrument. I know that's old stuff, but it comes to mind especially when she talks about how much she misses Christine.

FM also knows that Stevie is the big name of the band at this point in time. I'm not trying to make the issue black and white, ala "it's all their fault and not hers", but it could be at least one part of things.

[Peestie]

Half the time I think it's more about the possibility of rejection than it is the money.
I'm back and forward on this. From this interview, taken on its own, I'd agree. But given that she's said plenty of times that it's not worth it because people will download it illegally I'm not so sure...

You know? Lindsey has searched for collaboration with an outside producer, Mick John and Lindsey played their asses off to make new Macmusic. I really think she's not very respectful towards that work by talking this way. She may not want to record new Macmusic, but hey, there are three guys that already made a Fleetwood Mac album for 75 %.

If she backs out then then should add 2 or 3 Lindsey acoustic songs (Bel Air Rain, Time Precious Time, Not Too Late etc.) and release it as a Lindsey solo album or some new group name. I don't want them to wait around for ages on La Nicks.

What do you think that means? Do you think she meant that she would just make music and keep it to herself to listen to at home and not release it anywhere or . . . that she would just release music and not care if anyone bought it or not.

I wasn't exactly clear.

Michele
I took it to mean that she'd keep in for herself and not release it at all. But this might be what I wanted to understand it as. I didn't even consider the second possibility you mentioned. I hope she means that.

[michelej1]

FM also knows that Stevie is the big name of the band at this point in time. I'm not trying to make the issue black and white, ala "it's all their fault and not hers", but it could be at least one part of things.

And I would say that right now (as opposed to the eighties and nineties) that Stevie is the big draw on the stage, but not necessarily for an album. If FM released an album and Stevie was just on 3 songs and you had Christine and Lindsey on the others, I don't think the album would get any less publicity or have fewer sales than SYW did.

So, if they could conceivably record with Christine, they could have their new music out under the FM banner. They could tour (with Stevie singing live on 2 -3 of the new songs). They could have their cake and eat it too.
Not to mention the fact that if they did record with Christine, you wouldn't be able to keep Stevie away anyway. She would record. That's a certainty . . . but even if she did not, it would be a viable FM album. Just with her on Sad Angel, Without You and Miss Fantasy.

Tour contracts are already signed, so you have Stevie locked in for that. If the question is just finishing an album, there are other ways to solve that problem right around Stevie.

Michele

[elle]

If FM released an album and Stevie was just on 3 songs and you had Christine and Lindsey on the others, I don't think the album would get any less publicity or have fewer sales than SYW did.

So, if they could conceivably record with Christine, they could have their new music out under the FM banner. They could tour (with Stevie singing live on 2 -3 of the new songs). They could have their cake and eat it too.
Not to mention the fact that if they did record with Christine, you wouldn't be able to keep Stevie away anyway. She would record. That's a certainty . . . but even if she did not, it would be a viable FM album. Just with her on Sad Angel, Without You and Miss Fantasy.

Tour contracts are already signed, so you have Stevie locked in for that. If the question is just finishing an album, there are other ways to solve that problem right around Stevie.

yes. this is the main reason why i hope Christine does record with them while she's in LA, and may have been one of the main reasons that Mick went to get her NOW, as opposed to her coming out to the US at any other time. i think the boys are pulling all the stops to get that new album out, they even admitted some of that. :nod:

i agree also with people who were saying that SN has her reasons not wanting to record with FM and that's her prerogative. so that's just one more reason why it would be spectacular if Christine is interested to record with them - in that case there can be a legit Mac album and Stevie doesn't have to do anything more than she already did on those 3 songs. and they can release it whether or not SN thinks that first few released songs are "loved" enough. :rolleyes:

(one problem might be that i think Lindsey truly does want to close the cycle and work with Stevie again... and he wrote those songs in her keys, with her singing on them in mind.)


i would also LOVE to see Christine on stage with them in Columbus (and maybe a few more dates!) on several songs, just like Lindsey came on during BTM tour. she is obviously very capable of doing it, looks to be in unbelievable shape (just check out how those jeans fit her!) physically and her voice sounds great! why not jam with the guys in front of arena audiences and experience all that thrill again!!

[APerfectLie]

I love how Stevie Nicks' logic contradicts Stevie Nicks' logic. She used to go on and on about how when they went out with Rumours and did all Rumours stuff, they almost got booed off stage! Nobody wanted to hear GYOW! So if she had approached Rumours the same way she is approaching this, Rumours would have never been made. :shrug: Le sigh... I just hope if they make music for "themselves" they at least put it out for the fans.

[redbird]

I love how Stevie Nicks' logic contradicts Stevie Nicks' logic. She used to go on and on about how when they went out with Rumours and did all Rumours stuff, they almost got booed off stage! Nobody wanted to hear GYOW! So if she had approached Rumours the same way she is approaching this, Rumours would have never been made.

I thought she meant that when they played all Rumours songs after the album was released? Some of the songs were being written before the album was recorded, but not all of them, so they couldn't have played the entire album in concert until after it was done, right?

[secondhandchain]

I think that she just really doesn't want to make new music with FM and so she's trying out excuses to get out of it. That might be as much a way of trying to get away from the manipulations as it is about the music. I think she wants to make another solo album.

You hit the nail on the head. Why the f did she make her solo album then? I don't think people were jumping up and down over her last solo album. She said she made the album because she felt creative and again and didn't give a crap if people bought it or not. She simply does NOT want to record with FM anymore.

[McTrouble]

You hit the nail on the head. Why the f did she make her solo album then? I don't think people were jumping up and down over her last solo album. She said she made the album because she felt creative and again and didn't give a crap if people bought it or not. She simply does NOT want to record with FM anymore.


I sooooooo want this to be true! :p:D

[redbird]

And I would say that right now (as opposed to the eighties and nineties) that Stevie is the big draw on the stage, but not necessarily for an album. If FM released an album and Stevie was just on 3 songs and you had Christine and Lindsey on the others, I don't think the album would get any less publicity or have fewer sales than SYW did.Well, do you think Mick is really gunning for Christine in order to lock Stevie in? If so it seems like they don't really want to work around SN during the recording process for whatever reason.

[elle]

Well, do you think Mick is really gunning for Christine in order to lock Stevie in? If so it seems like they don't really want to work around SN during the recording process for whatever reason.

read my post above. i think Lindsey wants to work with Stevie (to close the cycle and all that). but i think that all the boys want to get that FM album out one way or the other.

if they have Christine, than they can get it out - with or without Stevie.

having Christine gives them options and much less dependence on Stevie's whims.

[redbird]

It doesn't seem like a whim to me, it seems like Stevie has had this reluctance for a long time now. She wants Christine.

Since Christine doesn't want to tour long-term, would Stevie and Lindsey tour Christine's songs? Or would they just not put them on the setlist? Would they try to get it out before the tour starts (could they even??)? before it ends? after it ends?

[johnnystorms]

I think many posters are taking Stevie's comments almost personally, as if she is thumbing her nose at us or being a fickle diva. She's shrewd to the industry dynamics. Fleetwood Mac is without a label. This could be a negotiating ploy to score a guarantee from whatever label they eventually sign on to record under. There's generally MUCH more going on behind the scenes. There's a reason she's sticking to this "script" in every interview.

[michelej1]

Well, do you think Mick is really gunning for Christine in order to lock Stevie in? If so it seems like they don't really want to work around SN during the recording process for whatever reason.

Well, I think Mick wants to work with and be with Christine for her own sake as well, for reasons having nothing to do with the Stevanestra. I just think he's not immune to the leverage that having Christine will give them strategically either. ;)

Michele

[elle]

She's shrewd to the industry dynamics. Fleetwood Mac is without a label. This could be a negotiating ploy to score a guarantee from whatever label they eventually sign on to record under. There's generally MUCH more going on behind the scenes. There's a reason she's sticking to this "script" in every interview.

you might be very right. but bands usually do that kind of stuff about touring it seems b/c that's where the money is, not about albums. :shrug:

being without a label seems like a good thing to me, they are free to do whatever they want instead of being pulled in yet another different direction, besides all the ones their various management factions keep pulling them.


although i freely admit that i'm completely clueless about these things and i'm just annoyed by all the bs. i just want to hear those new songs, asap. and i don't want FM to tour beyond the beginning of 2014.

[elle]

It doesn't seem like a whim to me, it seems like Stevie has had this reluctance for a long time now. She wants Christine.

Since Christine doesn't want to tour long-term, would Stevie and Lindsey tour Christine's songs? Or would they just not put them on the setlist? Would they try to get it out before the tour starts (could they even??)? before it ends? after it ends?

i'm hoping they get it out before the UK leg.

(although seems completely unrealistic with this group of people and their management.)

they never play all the new songs on the tour, so i don't see a big problem about not playing them now, except at the shows where she maybe participates.

they didn't play Lindsey's Tango songs on Tango tour right, or did they?

[michelej1]

they didn't play Lindsey's Tango songs on Tango tour right, or did they?

No, they didn't. Well, no TITN songs that he sung lead on. Isn't it Midnight is a little bit his writing wise.

Michele

[michelej1]

Ultimate Classic Rock quotes Stevie saying we have to love the songs and not just like or enjoy them and concludes:

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/fleetwood-mac-puts-fate-of-new-album-in-fans-hands/

In other words, if you want a full new Fleetwood Mac studio album, stay in your seat and whoop loudly when you hear a new song, instead of using the occasion for a bathroom break or to reload your beverage. Oh, and be sure to buy the singles on iTunes.

[Johnny Stew]

It doesn't seem like a whim to me, it seems like Stevie has had this reluctance for a long time now. She wants Christine.

Yeah, I can't imagine that Lindsey or Mick are really all that surprised about Stevie's reluctance to record. She said after 'Say You Will' that she didn't want to do another Mac album without Christine. Expecting her to change her mind, and trying to change her mind, is as unfair as trying to change Chris' mind about touring.

As far as the criticisms of her artistic integrity, yadda-yadda-yadda -- she said, when promoting 'In Your Dreams,' that she didn't care how well it sold. She needed to record new music. Perhaps she doesn't want to compromise anymore in a band environment, and wants to record her music on her terms.

And if she truly does want/need reassurance that people are clamoring for new Mac music, perhaps it's to get a sense of whether it would be worth all the aggravation, tension and headaches inherent to working together, before she commits to anything.

[CADreaming]

She's already recorded 3 (maybe 4) songs. What's a few more? It's a business decision.

[michelej1]

Yeah, I can't imagine that Lindsey or Mick are really all that surprised about Stevie's reluctance to record. She said after 'Say You Will' that she didn't want to do another Mac album without Christine. Expecting her to change her mind, and trying to change her mind, is as unfair as trying to change Chris' mind about touring.



How is it unfair for people to try to change her mind when she just INVITED us to change it? She just said that the fate of new music lies in fan reaction to the 3 songs. So, she has laid down the gauntlet, in essence.

As far as Mick and Lindsey unfairly trying to get her to change her mind, yeah they should hang it up. But maybe Stevie should stop blaming the fans and using others as her go-to excuse for not doing things that SHE does not want to do.

People might not like it if she said that for artistic or political reasons she doesn't want to record with the Mac and believes it might extend the band's future on the road, if they stay out of the studio, but it would be a whole lot more palatable than her saying, "Well, you have to love these songs. Enjoying and liking them is NOT ENOUGH." She feels she has more to say in her solo career than with FM and that's fine, but as long as she is not being honest and not coming out and saying that, people are going to react to what she does say.

I'm not surprised she said it. It's amusing and it's her, but it's old a new spin on her saying years ago that she didn't want to record anymore because fans kept stealing her music, now we're not stealing it, we just aren't loving it enough.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

She's already recorded 3 (maybe 4) songs. What's a few more? It's a business decision.

She only added vocals to two finished songs and then recorded one. If they decide to do a full album, they'd have to record probably another six or seven of Stevie's songs from the ground up (in addition to adding her vocals to most, if not all, of the rest of the songs Lindsey, Mick & John recorded together last year). It really wouldn't be a scenario all that dissimilar to how they recorded 'Say You Will' -- and we see how that went.

That said, in one of the interviews (Billboard maybe? I've completely lost track), she mentioned something about the possibility of recording a couple more tracks between now and the start of the tour. Maybe if they did something like that -- a few songs here, a few songs there -- they could build up enough tracks for an album while avoiding the tensions of being in a studio with each other for months on end.

[CADreaming]

She only added vocals to two finished songs and then recorded one. If they decide to do a full album, they'd have to record probably another six or seven of Stevie's songs from the ground up (in addition to adding her vocals to most, if not all, of the rest of the songs Lindsey, Mick & John recorded together last year). It really wouldn't be a scenario all that dissimilar to how they recorded 'Say You Will' -- and we see how that went.

That said, in one of the interviews (Billboard maybe? I've completely lost track), she mentioned something about the possibility of recording a couple more tracks between now and the start of the tour. Maybe if they did something like that -- a few songs here, a few songs there -- they could build up enough tracks for an album while avoiding the tensions of being in a studio with each other for months on end.

Exactly. It can be easy - or hard. It's up to them. But, it doesn't have to be hard.

[johnnystorms]

Stevie's NOT going to say "i don't wanna record with FM" before a tour . She's not stupid.

[jkmaletic]

Yeah, I can't imagine that Lindsey or Mick are really all that surprised about Stevie's reluctance to record. She said after 'Say You Will' that she didn't want to do another Mac album without Christine. Expecting her to change her mind, and trying to change her mind, is as unfair as trying to change Chris' mind about touring.

As far as the criticisms of her artistic integrity, yadda-yadda-yadda -- she said, when promoting 'In Your Dreams,' that she didn't care how well it sold. She needed to record new music. Perhaps she doesn't want to compromise anymore in a band environment, and wants to record her music on her terms.

And if she truly does want/need reassurance that people are clamoring for new Mac music, perhaps it's to get a sense of whether it would be worth all the aggravation, tension and headaches inherent to working together, before she commits to anything.

Agreed 100%.

[Johnny Stew]

How is it unfair for people to try to change her mind when she just INVITED us to change it? She just said that the fate of new music lies in fan reaction to the 3 songs. So, she has laid down the gauntlet, in essence.

I wasn't talking about us -- I was referring to Lindsey and Mick trying to change her mind. Which is why I mentioned them one sentence prior.

But maybe Stevie should stop blaming the fans and using others as her go-to excuse for not doing things that SHE does not want to do.

But, see, that's the thing -- when she says "fans," I don't believe for a second that she means folks like us. We're the diehards. We're in a class by ourselves. We buy everything. We buy multiple copies of the same album. We buy entire movie soundtracks to get one new song. Stevie's not unaware of that. No, she's talking about casual fans. The "only know it if they play it on the radio" fans. The folks who, like it or not, make up a larger portion of their audience than we do.

I do agree with you, though. If she's not just testing the waters, and really doesn't want to record with the band, it would be better for her to just say so. (Not that that would go over any better than what she's currently saying, but at least she wouldn't be teasing us.)

[michelej1]

Stevie's NOT going to say "i don't wanna record with FM before a tour!" . She's not stupid.

She doesn't have to put it like that. During the Dance tour she was honest in saying that they were all walking on egg shells because no one wanted to mess it up and ruin their reunion. She was very aware that the chemistry could be destroyed if someone made the wrong move back then and she did say that in the press.

She could say something to the effect now, that she thinks recording before the SYW got that tour off to the wrong start -- which it honestly did -- and that she wants to avoid that and that she feels that the band that doesn't play together (in the studio) will stay together on the stage. I mean, her explanation can come out of a place of caring for the band's long term survival rather than just hating them and the horses they rode in on.

Michele

[michelej1]

But, see, that's the thing -- when she says "fans," I don't believe for a second that she means folks like us.

Yes, I think she knows focused fans will LOVE the new songs no matter what. But when she blames fans in general, I think she does blame the focused ones. I think she's under the impression that we steal. When it comes to her internet complaints, I think she does mean us. When people around her took her music and we all got copies of it, it was only the focused fans who got the fruits of that theft. Stevie knows that. She knew we already knew Secret Love. I don't think she thinks the Dreams lovers on the streets knew Secret Love years before it was released. So, when she said that fans stole her music, I think she did mean us, focused fans, not casual fans.

And I think she may feel that focused fans get this stuff and disseminate it to the casual world, which is why the music business is going bankrupt, in her mind.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

When we were all here, years back, discussing Stevie's comments about people stealing her music online, I never felt that she meant us then either.

Maybe I'm wrong, but through everything else she's ever said -- both publicly to the media, and privately to fans -- I get the feeling she knows we're as protective of her music as she is.

(By the way -- I love the term "focused fans." Sounds so much nicer than "diehards!")

[redbird]

I do often wonder what it is that keeps Stevie from just quitting Fleetwood Mac. Does she just want to tour with them? Tours are certainly lucrative, especially if you make your fans wait for three years at a time. Anyway, I know she's said she feels loyal to Fleetwood Mac and that it probably represented a dream that's hard to let go for a dreamer like her, but if it causes her more pain than joy, why bother. But I'm sure if she tried to quit Mick would make it a bit of a pain. I do believe what he says about her being a good bandmate, IOW a team player, but she's a team player who ultimately ends up resenting a lot of things (rightly or wrongly), it just seems like a lot of unnecessary unhappiness.

(I'm not saying I do or don't want her to quit, that's her choice AFAIAC.)

[michelej1]

I do often wonder what it is that keeps Stevie from just quitting Fleetwood Mac. Does she just want to tour with them?

Yes, I think she wants to tour. Not only because they're lucrative, but FM tours are exciting and still have a bit of that allure from the old days. Playing the Staples Center can make you feel like Queen for a Day -- or Robert Plant for a Day, anyway.

When we were all here, years back, discussing Stevie's comments about people stealing her music online, I never felt that she meant us then either.

Maybe I'm wrong, but through everything else she's ever said -- both publicly to the media, and privately to fans -- I get the feeling she knows we're as protective of her music as she is.



I get the feeling that she thinks focused fans create a market for the stuff that artists don't get paid for, like the clamor over My Heart.

I've seen the argument that you made about us being the ones who buy several copies of things, one to save unopened, one for the car, one to play at home, etc. in many posts, but it was usually an argument being made hoping that she would change her stance.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

In other words, she's only in it for the fame and fortune, not the artistic merit. Good to know.

[redbird]

Well, she's into her solo work for artistic merit. To be honest the same has seemed at least somewhat true of Lindsey Buckingham too, based on his big-machine-little-machine speeches. I've wanted to know for a while if anyone in the band still needs Fleetwood Mac for a creative oulet (as vs either money or nostalgia/emotional healing).

[Johnny Stew]

In other words, she's only in it for the fame and fortune, not the artistic merit. Good to know.

I've never understood why, for so many fans, it has to be an either/or proposition. She's worked damned hard to be acknowledged for her songwriting talents, and continues to write to this day. Her desire to also make money doesn't negate that.

[SteveMacD]

Well, she's into her solo work for artistic merit. To be honest the same has seemed at least somewhat true of Lindsey Buckingham too, based on his big-machine-little-machine speeches. I've wanted to know for a while if anyone in the band still needs Fleetwood Mac for a creative oulet (as vs either money or nostalgia/emotional healing).
With Lindsey, I think it's a difference in how he approaches projects. He's been publicly lobbying hard for a new record and wants to be more collaborative with Stevie.

Other than that, John's the only one I can think of.

[SteveMacD]

I've never understood why, for so many fans, it has to be an either/or proposition. She's worked damned hard to be acknowledged for her songwriting talents, and continues to write to this day. Her desire to also make money doesn't negate that.
For me, I think it's that I'm around people who put out music without compromising their artistic visions, regardless of how much a records sells. And, at least one of those guys has written considerably more songs than Stevie could dream of writing, and he definitely doesn't pray to the hit gods.

[redbird]

To play devil's advocate, I've never heard people talk about how hard it is to work with Stevie as much as how hard it is (or could be, anyway) to work with Lindsey. I know he has worked hard to overcome a lot of demons, but who knows, there might still be issues. If the process is likely to be just plain unpleasant for Stevie, I can see why she'd need a greater incentive, as someone said above, to balance things out and make it more worthwhile for her. Christine would help. Production of her songs that she actually liked would help. Interactions that didn't rub salt in old wounds would help. Otherwise, if it's artistic merit she wants, she has her solo career for that.

Stevie seems to love to collaborate, with anyone and everyone but the Fleetwood Mac guys it seems.

(And I'm still not sure that means Lindsey wants this new record for purely artistic purposes, but I'm sure it's not black and white for anyone involved.)

[redbird]

For me, I think it's that I'm around people who put out music without compromising their artistic visions, regardless of how much a records sells. And, at least one of those guys has written considerably more songs than Stevie could dream of writing, and he definitely doesn't pray to the hit gods.

Back in the day, when the band would work on records and she'd be left out of a lot of the process because she didn't play an instrument, she'd basically say "That's fine, if you don't want my songs I'll just give them to my solo career!" And I think that's how she thinks about it to this day. Her artistic vision doesn't require Fleetwood Mac per se, not any more anyway. She learned how to collaborate with other producers and she can always find a buddy or two to harmonize with.

[Johnny Stew]

For me, I think it's that I'm around people who put out music without compromising their artistic visions, regardless of how much a records sells. And, at least one of those guys has written considerably more songs than Stevie could dream of writing, and he definitely doesn't pray to the hit gods.

She said that about one song ("Say You Will") and that comment was latched onto as if it were the only thing she's ever said on the topic. (Even after the countless other comments she's made about not setting out to write hit songs, and not knowing how to even if she tried.)

It's great that you know someone who doesn't care whether he gets rich making music. I know & respect people like that too -- including my best buddy, who's a drummer and a songwriter. I still don't see why Stevie should be blamed for wanting to do what she loves and make money at the same time, or have her artistic integrity questioned because of it.

[michelej1]

To play devil's advocate, I've never heard people talk about how hard it is to work with Stevie as much as how hard it is (or could be, anyway) to work with Lindsey. I know he has worked hard to overcome a lot of demons, but who knows, there might still be issues. If the process is likely to be just plain unpleasant for Stevie, I can see why she'd need a greater incentive, as someone said above, to balance things out and make it more worthwhile for her. Christine would help. Production of her songs that she actually liked would help. Interactions that didn't rub salt in old wounds would help. Otherwise, if it's artistic merit she wants, she has her solo career for that.



When Stevie was on drugs, I don't think she got along well with any producers, not even Iovine and we know we have to pretend that Street Angel doesn't even exist, because of the conflict there. With the Tango album, working with Lindsey was not the problem. Even Mick said that although Lindsey treated the rest of them like marionettes, he was super sweet to Stevie when she was there.

Lindsey hasn't worked with a lot of people outside of FM, but Egan, Stewart and Welch didn't seem to complain about him.

You're right. As Stevie said in 2003 that Lindsey had been out of her life a long time and she doesn't need him to make her music come true anymore. She has other ways to be creative and it's a more enjoyable, fulfilling thing to do outside of FM these days.

I wish she would just say that. You mentioned working with another producer and so did Stevie. So, that's what Lindsey tried to do. He went about it the wrong way, I think, pulling Mitchell Froom out of a hat like a rabbit. But he was responding to what Stevie said.

If the truth is she doesn't want to work with him even with an outside producer, then she should just say so.

If you come over to my house and I offer you apple pie, if you say, "No, I don't like apple pie," then I will not pester you about pie again.

However, if you say, "Oh, no it looks delicious, but I just ate," then I'm going to wait for an hour until your appetite dissipates and then I'm going to ask you again if you want apple pie. When you give me excuses, I'm going to try to resolve your objectons and it's not because I don't respect your wishes, it's because you made me think that under certain circumstances, you WILL want pie. When you just tell me you're not interested in my pie, I guess I'll finally leave you alone.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

When Stevie was on drugs, I don't think she got along well with any producers, not even Iovine and we know we have to pretend that Street Angel doesn't even exist, because of the conflict there.

I imagine Stevie's work ethic suffered at the height of her cocaine addiction, and that was probably the source of Jimmy's frustration (since he'd already warned her before making 'Bella Donna' that he had no interest in wasting months on end in the studio if she wasn't going to work in a disciplined fashion). However, things couldn't have ever gotten that bad between them, since she was the first person he called when he wanted to record 'A Very Special Christmas' -- less than two years later.

In fact, other than Glyn Johns, just about everyone she worked with during the "drug years" continues to work with her to this day. I think that says a lot.

Meanwhile, I don't necessarily think that Lindsey is hard to work with (although Ken sure seems to think so!), but he may be hard for Stevie to work with. Just too much baggage there.

[Johnny Stew]

(Meant to reply to this earlier....)

I've seen the argument that you made about us being the ones who buy several copies of things, one to save unopened, one for the car, one to play at home, etc. in many posts, but it was usually an argument being made hoping that she would change her stance.

You know, now that you mention it, I do remember saying back then that I hoped she was aware of how dedicated we are and would change her mind. Yet, I also recall expressing the belief that she had to know, based on other things she's said, and wasn't directing those statements toward diehards.

It must have been something on which my thoughts evolved, the more I contemplated it. Either way, please strike the word "never" from my earlier post. ;)

[AliceLover]

What KILLED me about the whole album thing was how stealthily and carefully Lindsey, John, and Mick went about setting up the whole thing. They learned from their mistakes from SYW, got the outside producer who was under the radar and recorded half of a Fleetwood Mac album.

Now Stevie is full of sh*t when she says she didn't have any material recorded? Um Stevie...'You Can't Fix This?' She contradicted EVERYTHING she said in the FM tour press by going out and recording a new song (that effing rocks) with the Foo Fighters. If I were Lindsey, I'd be like wtfff!

I think the lack of sales (even though the album was in the limelight) and aggressive tour schedule effected the Mac album.

I'm devastated. Lindsey and Stevie are both peaking right now creatively. I can only imagine what new Mac material would have sounded like.

[jkmaletic]

Yes, I think she knows focused fans will LOVE the new songs no matter what. But when she blames fans in general, I think she does blame the focused ones. I think she's under the impression that we steal. When it comes to her internet complaints, I think she does mean us. When people around her took her music and we all got copies of it, it was only the focused fans who got the fruits of that theft. Stevie knows that. She knew we already knew Secret Love. I don't think she thinks the Dreams lovers on the streets knew Secret Love years before it was released. So, when she said that fans stole her music, I think she did mean us, focused fans, not casual fans.

And I think she may feel that focused fans get this stuff and disseminate it to the casual world, which is why the music business is going bankrupt, in her mind.

Michele

You may be right, in a sense. But Stevie talked about that at Sunset Sessions in 2011 after a fan asked her how she felt about demos being out there to "steal". ( I know- ballsy, huh?! lol) Stevie answered that part of it was her OWN fault for allowing people to take tapes if they asked. She said she didn't really think much about it at the time. In fact, she mentioned her Mom finding old demo tapes of hers at a garage sale!

[WildHearted]

Now Stevie is full of sh*t when she says she didn't have any material recorded? Um Stevie...'You Can't Fix This?' She contradicted EVERYTHING she said in the FM tour press by going out and recording a new song (that effing rocks) with the Foo Fighters. If I were Lindsey, I'd be like wtfff!

Stevie never said she didn't have material, though. That was Lindsey who said that Stevie didn't bring anything new to the FM table (which was true - she showed up wtih Without You, and that was it). But it wasn't because she didn't have anything to bring (although he seemed to imply that that might be the case).

We've known Stevie had at least some new material for a while - during screenings of the IYD doc she was talking about writing songs after her mother's death and giving them over to Dave Stewart. In my mind, it was never a question of whether Stevie had anything to contribute (even if she didn't have anything NEW, she certainly has tons of older songs that were never recorded)... the issue was whether she WANTED to contribute anything. And it seems that she really didn't.

[wondergirl9847]

Seems to me that since Lindsey has known Stevie since before she was STEVIE NICKS!, that working with him is difficult because he sees her the way he saw her singing California Dreams at that party. She is not STEVIE NICKS! to him, but to others like Dave Stewart, Dave Grohl (what's with the name Dave? LOL) and all the others who've worked with her lately, they see her as STEVIE NICKS! The newbies see her in a totally different light and treat her as such. I know I am stating the obvious, but thought I'd put in my 2 cents anyway. LOL :cool:

I agree with Michele, that she should just come out and say that she's not interested in recording more with FM at the moment....she'd like to get the tour up and running. :shrug: Stevie is flakey (think we all know that) and flip flops a lot. She should run for President. ;)

[I'msoAfraid95]

Hell, just let the three guys release the music they've made under a different name if Stevie doesn't want to do at least a 5 song cd/download. I'll buy the album with or without Stevie. Sorry Stevie fans, but why let some possibly very good music go to waste?;)

[DashingDan]

Seems to me that since Lindsey has known Stevie since before she was STEVIE NICKS!, that working with him is difficult because he sees her the way he saw her singing California Dreams at that party. She is not STEVIE NICKS! to him, but to others like Dave Stewart, Dave Grohl (what's with the name Dave? LOL) and all the others who've worked with her lately, they see her as STEVIE NICKS! The newbies see her in a totally different light and treat her as such. I know I am stating the obvious, but thought I'd put in my 2 cents anyway. LOL :cool:

I agree with Michele, that she should just come out and say that she's not interested in recording more with FM at the moment....she'd like to get the tour up and running. :shrug: Stevie is flakey (think we all know that) and flip flops a lot. She should run for President. ;)


on behalf of Daves Grohl (43) and Stewart (61), I'd like to thank you for calling them newbies.

[wondergirl9847]

on behalf of Daves Grohl (43) and Stewart (61), I'd like to thank you for calling them newbies.

Well, I meant new to working with STEVIE NICKS! Hee!! :cool:

[Macfanforever]

I always stay through out the whole show .I just hold the wee.LOL to after.
I see some people do their business during World Turning since its a long tune and people don't want to see Mick in the spot lite.

Thats very rude on that.

True FM fans like us will sit there probably pissing in our pants while enjoying or favorite band.LOL...............

Also It annoys me when the crowd starts to file out before the encores.They want to be first to leave the parking lot.

[SteveMacD]

Also It annoys me when the crowd starts to file out before the encores.They want to be first to leave the parking lot.
Yeah, but they're not the die-hards. I've been just as guilty with bands I like, but not necessarily love.

[michelej1]

What KILLED me about the whole album thing was how stealthily and carefully Lindsey, John, and Mick went about setting up the whole thing.


Of course, an ambush probably didn't help their cause. I mean it kind of puts you more on the defensive.

But she's on 3 songs and they should try to do what they can with those and not wait for something that's never going to happen. Unless Taylor Swift comes and sings on one of the songs, no one is ever going to LOVE them. So, Stevie has set up a goal that will never happen and if the others want an album, they need to find another way to make it work.

Michele

[shackin'up]

Of course, an ambush probably didn't help their cause. I mean it kind of puts you more on the defensive.

But she's on 3 songs and they should try to do what they can with those and not wait for something that's never going to happen. Unless Taylor Swift comes and sings on one of the songs, no one is ever going to LOVE them. So, Stevie has set up a goal that will never happen and if the others want an album, they need to find another way to make it work.

Michele

In one of the early interviews it was Lindsey who said himself that the recording of his tracks with Froome and later with Mick and John, was a strategic risk he took. He said something like it maybe was too much of an overwhelming strategy for her. I bet that's the reason why he's mild towards her opinions about new recording. They wanted her in, one way or the other, and I bet that Lindsey totally focussed on recording a typical FM brand set of songs. He's ready to do one more big commercial popalbum, without all the artistic needs and leftfield freakiness he always aims for, in the hope that she would bite. She's nibbling on the bait by singing on Two songs, and agreeing on WY being a FM song in stead of BN.

I respect that, but secretly, I hope she bails out, and Lindsey Finishes the album with great commercial succes. ;)

[michelej1]

I respect that, but secretly, I hope she bails out, and Lindsey Finishes the album with great commercial succes. ;)

Finishes it as an FM album?



Michele

[shackin'up]

Finishes it as an FM album?



Michele

Yes, Why not? Mick and John are there, and if she doesn't want to be part of it, technically they can put it out as FM. Or do LB and SN legally own the name together with Mick and John?

[BombaySapphire3]

When I saw her Q&A after the IYD doc screening out here she pretty much said she would not do another Fleetwood Mac album ..I know she is changeable but this time I really believe her .This would only change if Christine was in for another album IMHO.

[CADreaming]

Yeah, she's changeable. Because how is she never ever ever never leaving her band but refuse to do another album if that's what the others want? Majority rules.

[redbird]

If the truth is she doesn't want to work with him even with an outside producer, then she should just say so.

If you come over to my house and I offer you apple pie, if you say, "No, I don't like apple pie," then I will not pester you about pie again.

However, if you say, "Oh, no it looks delicious, but I just ate," then I'm going to wait for an hour until your appetite dissipates and then I'm going to ask you again if you want apphttp://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1078302le pie. When you give me excuses, I'm going to try to resolve your objectons and it's not because I don't respect your wishes, it's because you made me think that under certain circumstances, you WILL want pie. When you just tell me you're not interested in my pie, I guess I'll finally leave you alone.

Absolutely, in fact I don't even really get staying with the band just for the touring, seems kinda crazy to me.

If I can do a bit of armchair analyzing, she always seemed like a conflicted personality, part of her is very "nice" and accommodating and part of her is very independent and confrontational. It doesn't do any good to be accommodating if she's only going to get resentful about it later. I think she doesn't want to be the one who "ruins" Fleetwood Mac and I think the idea of leaving the band, at least once upon a time, kind of tore her up. But it ends up leaving everyone in limbo since everyone's fates are tied up in each other's. Lindsey backed out of the band when he had to, Christine did too, so if Stevie feels she has to then she should just bite the bullet and do it.

Since she won't, either it's some sort of "I don't want to say no so don't ask the question" thing or she's really holding on to see if Christine will be around.

Backing up on what I said about Lindsey - she does seem like she actually likes to work with him, when it's just the two of them, on a song here or there. So is her problem working with the three other guys all together? Is that why it matters to her so much that Christine be there, so she isn't outnumbered? Or is it that she doesn't want to give her new songs to the band? After all she wasn't happy with the way her songs turned out on SYW IIRC.

[Fannymac]

Who are these morons that keep telling her the public doesn't want a full album?!? Of course we do!!! Give us a great album and IT WILL SELL!!!! Just ask the Eagles.....their last one sold, what, 4-5 million???

[michelej1]

Yes, Why not? Mick and John are there, and if she doesn't want to be part of it, technically they can put it out as FM. Or do LB and SN legally own the name together with Mick and John?

Yes, I'm sure they could do it. After all, she is still there on 3 songs, so technically: FM.

I'm thinking that even though John and Mick own the name, for legal purposes that "Fleetwood Mac" is defined as a certain group of people for a duration of time that expires.

Michele

[Jondalar]

Who are these morons that keep telling her the public doesn't want a full album?!? Of course we do!!! Give us a great album and IT WILL SELL!!!! Just ask the Eagles.....their last one sold, what, 4-5 million???

It's her that is doing that. SYW only went gold. To Stevie, that is a failure. Didn't the Eagles give away their album with concert tickets?

[CADreaming]

^Exactly. If SYW had sold millions I'm sure she'd find it in her heart to love it.

[Ulpian]

Yes, I'm sure they could do it. After all, she is still there on 3 songs, so technically: FM.

I'm thinking that even though John and Mick own the name, for legal purposes that "Fleetwood Mac" is defined as a certain group of people for a duration of time that expires.

Michele

I don't know about this. Various bands have different arrangements for that kind of thing – for example, Pink Floyd created different companies to deal with different eras / group lineups.

I think the name ownership is in Mick and John's possession but there will be an agreement between parties (including Peter Green, Christine, Bob Welch's estate etc) as to how revenue is divided up according to artist involvement.

[shackin'up]

It's her that is doing that. SYW only went gold. To Stevie, that is a failure. Didn't the Eagles give away their album with concert tickets?
Whatever. They recorded an album together. It's basicly outrageous that someone who rarely recorded with this band can do this. Mick John and Lindsey had recorded all basic tracks for SYW without her, She wasn't there during TITN, and she wasn't there for the recording of 8 new potential FM tracks in 2012. She invested 4 days. Basicly talking, not recording, as she tells us. I understand that LB is a Total ass in the studio, but if she wants to have some influence on the output, she has to be there.

When you have an album, you can Give it away with tickets. If you don't have an album, you cannot.

[elle]

^Exactly. If SYW had sold millions I'm sure she'd find it in her heart to love it.

:laugh::laugh::thumbsup:

[elle]

Whatever. They recorded an album together. It's basicly outrageous that someone who rarely recorded with this band can do this. Mick John and Lindsey had recorded all basic tracks for SYW without her, She wasn't there during TITN, and she wasn't there for the recording of 8 new potential FM tracks in 2012. She invested 4 days. Basicly talking, not recording, as she tells us. I understand that LB is a Total ass in the studio, but if she wants to have some influence on the output, she has to be there.
when you put it that way, hm... she didn't seem to really put much effort in FM albums since the 80s.
When you have an album, you can Give it away with tickets. If you don't have an album, you cannot.
:thumbsup: get that album out guys, asap!

or at least get out those 3 new tracks... Lindsey said in this same interview they'll put them out online before the tour starts. there's not much time anymore so they better get on it. do you think they are considering offering some of it as a free download or just amazon/itunes route?

[Jondalar]

Whatever. They recorded an album together. It's basicly outrageous that someone who rarely recorded with this band can do this. Mick John and Lindsey had recorded all basic tracks for SYW without her, She wasn't there during TITN, and she wasn't there for the recording of 8 new potential FM tracks in 2012. She invested 4 days. Basicly talking, not recording, as she tells us. I understand that LB is a Total ass in the studio, but if she wants to have some influence on the output, she has to be there.

When you have an album, you can Give it away with tickets. If you don't have an album, you cannot.

Stevie's calling the shots. You're not getting an album because she doesn't feel it will sale. It's all her. She is calling the shots. She has songs for her next solo project as I understand it. She recorded more songs with Dave. She wants to get back to that.

[michelej1]

I don't know about this. Various bands have different arrangements for that kind of thing – for example, Pink Floyd created different companies to deal with different eras / group lineups.



Fleetwood Mac does have a different corporation to include each era of the band, but that's not what I'm talking about. When they signed contracts to tour as Fleetwood Mac, the term and components of "Fleetwood Mac" were defined. Mick and John may own the name, but they aren't free to tour as FM with just any set of people they want. Not until whatever contracts are currently in effect expire. For at least the duration of this tour, FM has to be made up of a specific set of people.

The way Mick was talking, I think he left himself an out and that for contingency purposes, Christine is part of that definition, just in case they want to work her in. But Mick can't go out on stage with Martina McBride and John and call it "Fleetwood Mac." Maybe next year he can, but not now. The people they've contracted with for this tour have protected themselves and their investment.

Michele

[elle]

Stevie's calling the shots. You're not getting an album because she doesn't feel it will sale. It's all her. She is calling the shots. She has songs for her next solo project as I understand it. She recorded more songs with Dave. She wants to get back to that.

i think you both are saying the same thing. she's calling the shots and she is behaving like she doesn't want new FM album.

new album won't sell millions anyway, with or without her, so the others should just give it up and put an album out without her, possibly with Christine if she would like to participate.

unless they have some legal clause that if Stevie (or any one of them) says they can't put an album under FM name out without their ok.

[Ulpian]

Fleetwood Mac does have a different corporation to include each era of the band, but that's not what I'm talking about. When they signed contracts to tour as Fleetwood Mac, the term and components of "Fleetwood Mac" were defined. Mick and John may own the name, but they aren't free to tour as FM with just any set of people they want. Not until whatever contracts are currently in effect expire. For at least the duration of this tour, FM has to be made up of a specific set of people.

The way Mick was talking, I think he left himself an out and that for contingency purposes, Christine is part of that definition, just in case they want to work her in. But Mick can't go out on stage with Martina McBride and John and call it "Fleetwood Mac." Maybe next year he can, but not now. The people they've contracted with for this tour have protected themselves and their investment.

Michele

Do you have access to their legal files?! Where did you discover that?

[Jondalar]

i think you both are saying the same thing. she's calling the shots and she is behaving like she doesn't want new FM album.

new album won't sell millions anyway, with or without her, so the others should just give it up and put an album out without her, possibly with Christine if she would like to participate.

unless they have some legal clause that if Stevie (or any one of them) says they can't put an album under FM name out without their ok.

If Christine were on board, Stevie would do a new Fleetwood Mac album.

[michelej1]

Do you have access to their legal files?! Where did you discover that?

I've seen promoter, engagement and tour contracts. The billing and band members are clearly defined as are the basis for termination or modification of those definitions. You first establish you have legal title to the name and then you can contract it out for a specified period of time.

I don't need access to their legal files to know that each era of the band has its own corporate entity. Corporate records are recorded with the Secretary of State.

Michele

[BombaySapphire3]

If Christine were on board, Stevie would do a new Fleetwood Mac album.

This is a guarantee in fact.Even with Lindsey producing.

[Ulpian]

I've seen promoter, engagement and tour contracts. The billing and band members are clearly defined as are the basis for termination or modification of those definitions. You first establish you have legal title to the name and then you can contract it out for a specified period of time.

I don't need access to their legal files to know that each era of the band has its own corporate entity. Corporate records are recorded with the Secretary of State.

Michele

We have a similar system of registration here with Companies House, which is a government entity. I sometimes think bands hide the figures and key players behind various different shadow companies / entities, but maybe FM companies are just straightforward?

[michelej1]

We have a similar system of registration here with Companies House, which is a government entity. I sometimes think bands hide the figures and key players behind various different shadow companies / entities, but maybe FM companies are just straightforward?

Since 2001 the current line up has had the same active corporation. Michael Fleetwood is listed as president and Lester Knispel is agent for service. Those two pieces of information have to be public. When you do a Dun and Bradstreet, you can get the members of the corporation, for a fee. I don't think that's something they'd want private. But when people buy real property and such, I know they often use straw men so that ownership can't be traced back to them.

Michele

[seekerj]

^Exactly. If SYW had sold millions I'm sure she'd find it in her heart to love it.

And it's not just her. As I remember, SYW was loved a lot more here on this board when it first came out, and during the SYW tour. It wasn't until Stevie made negative comments about it that I noticed the popularity of the album falling down around here.

[CADreaming]

Whatever. They recorded an album together. It's basicly outrageous that someone who rarely recorded with this band can do this. Mick John and Lindsey had recorded all basic tracks for SYW without her, She wasn't there during TITN, and she wasn't there for the recording of 8 new potential FM tracks in 2012. She invested 4 days. Basicly talking, not recording, as she tells us. I understand that LB is a Total ass in the studio, but if she wants to have some influence on the output, she has to be there.

When you have an album, you can Give it away with tickets. If you don't have an album, you cannot.

You're totally right!

I guess she gets to hold the cards because of her drawing power as the member with the biggest solo career and highest visibility. Doesn't make it fair, but it probably stacks the odds in her favor when it comes to negotiating the timing for a new FM album.

[Ulpian]

Since 2001 the current line up has had the same active corporation. Michael Fleetwood is listed as president and Lester Knispel is agent for service. Those two pieces of information have to be public. When you do a Dun and Bradstreet, you can get the members of the corporation, for a fee. I don't think that's something they'd want private. But when people buy real property and such, I know they often use straw men so that ownership can't be traced back to them.

Michele

I love finding out stuff like this. So, that 2001 corporation includes Christine too?

[michelej1]

And don't forget about that tour package of Mick's which states that you'll spend one day doing an activity with Mick. One of the 3 activities listed is attending a studio recording session with him.

Now, maybe they had no recording in mind and they just threw that in to entice potential buyers. But it made me wonder if he thought there was a chance he might be recording something in April or May. Would they actually work on recording between concert shows? I can't imagine they'd have the stamina.

On the other hand, Lindsey has said how boring it gets in the hotels and being on the road when they are not on stage. So, maybe they'd be up for something.

Michele

[redbird]

And it's not just her. As I remember, SYW was loved a lot more here on this board when it first came out, and during the SYW tour. It wasn't until Stevie made negative comments about it that I noticed the popularity of the album falling down around here.
Interesting. I only very recently sat down and listened to the whole SYW album all the way through (back to front ;)) and thought it was a lot better than I feared but not as good as I'd hoped. I never thought it sounded like an album that would sell millions in the 21st century, but it couldn't have come from people who weren't talented. I felt consistently that it was trying too hard to appeal to a newer and younger public. Ironically (or not) I think that after the decade of retro (2000-2010) their classic sound might help them more.

[michelej1]

I love finding out stuff like this. So, that 2001 corporation includes Christine too?

Yes it does. They have separate touring and merchandising entities that don't include her. They had both a Fleetwood Mac Touring Corp. and a Fleetwood Mac Merchandising Corp, which dissolved in 1997 and they were replaced by new corporations to handle every tour.

I just think it's curious that, before he was reprimanded, Mick was acting like he could attach Christine to the tour even now -- just months before it begins. So, even though the papers are signed he seemed to think that could be done at the last minute. It made me think that they left themselves an out to add Christine to the tour, even knowing that it was highly unlikely she would ever join.

Michele

[shackin'up]

Stevie's calling the shots. You're not getting an album because she doesn't feel it will sale. It's all her. She is calling the shots. She has songs for her next solo project as I understand it. She recorded more songs with Dave. She wants to get back to that.
No problem. But then: opt out. Don't let three guys record the **** out of them and leave them with no for an answer with a pile of songs where they cannot put the FM brand on. That's unfair.

[Lilyfan]

Stevie's calling the shots. You're not getting an album because she doesn't feel it will sale. It's all her. She is calling the shots. She has songs for her next solo project as I understand it. She recorded more songs with Dave. She wants to get back to that.

Maybe after all those years when they treated her like her opinion didn't matter because she didn't play an instrument - she's enjoying calling the shots and wants to enjoy it for a little while. I agree, she'd much rather work with Dave Stewart at this point in her life. He gets her. And he makes her happy when they work together.

Kind of makes me curious about his Missionary Man and her random "Missionary" thrown into lyrics that otherwise make no sense.

[michelej1]

Interesting. I only very recently sat down and listened to the whole SYW album all the way through (back to front ;)) and thought it was a lot better than I feared but not as good as I'd hoped. I never thought it sounded like an album that would sell millions in the 21st century, but it couldn't have come from people who weren't talented. I felt consistently that it was trying too hard to appeal to a newer and younger public. Ironically (or not) I think that after the decade of retro (2000-2010) their classic sound might help them more.

The thing about it is, to me the content was there to make a great album, if it had been edited differently. By edited I mean not only should some songs have been cut, but some songs that remained should have been shortened(RTTG, for instance) and then it should have been sequenced differently.

The opening tracks almost render the thing Dead on Arrival. But I guess this is a better problem to have: being able to say that the album had too much, rather than it was lacking. For me, I love so many things on it that what I like comprises MORE than a whole album, even discarding the dregs.

Michele

[Ulpian]

Yes it does. They have separate touring and merchandising entities that don't include her. They had both a Fleetwood Mac Touring Corp. and a Fleetwood Mac Merchandising Corp, which dissolved in 1997 and they were replaced by new corporations to handle every tour.

I just think it's curious that, before he was reprimanded, Mick was acting like he could attach Christine to the tour even now -- just months before it begins. So, even though the papers are signed he seemed to think that could be done at the last minute. It made me think that they left themselves an out to add Christine to the tour, even knowing that it was highly unlikely she would ever join.

Michele

I never know with Mick. Sometimes I completely disregard what he says.

I suppose Christine benefits from performance payments on the new tours. Won't she get something for them performing any of her songs, whether co-written or not? Is that payment a fixed fee?

[elle]

I never know with Mick. Sometimes I completely disregard what he says.

I suppose Christine benefits from performance payments on the new tours. Won't she get something for them performing any of her songs, whether co-written or not? Is that payment a fixed fee?

didn't she sell her catalog?

[michelej1]

I never know with Mick. Sometimes I completely disregard what he says.

I suppose Christine benefits from performance payments on the new tours. Won't she get something for them performing any of her songs, whether co-written or not? Is that payment a fixed fee?

Yes and then recording rights are separate, so when they do Live In Boston on a dvd and "Don't Stop" is included that's money on top of the money someone gets when their songs are performed live.

We were looking at some BMI stats in the Christine forum awhile ago and it was interesting because BMI doesn't have the publishing rights to the other FM members songs, so we weren't getting data for Dreams or GYOW, only Christine's.

Michele

[MikeInNV]

I'm a little confused by the tone of many of these messages, blaming Stevie for the lack of musical output. If FM has no record label, there is no one to demand her involvement. Lindsey has 8 songs he can do whatever he likes with. They could become his next solo album, or they could become a Stevie-less FM album. Personally, I think if they just told her they were doing an album with or without her, she would cave. In any case, it's easy to say she has all the power, but it's only the power they willingly give her. If the songs never see the light of day just because Stevie isn't on board, it says more about their artisitic integrity than hers.

[Ulpian]

Yeah, Christine sold her catalogue but I don't know whether it was outright or just a 25 year right to the revenue. Someone here once said she had sold it for $150m. :o

I remember the fiasco over The Beatles catalogue being bought by Michael Jackson in the 80s. McCartney went nuts, but eventually the ownership reverted to the original owners, I think, by length of time. I don't know the terminology (I'm a trust lawyer, not an Intellectual Property specialist!).

[McTrouble]

I'm a little confused by the tone of many of these messages, blaming Stevie for the lack of musical output. If FM has no record label, there is no one to demand her involvement. Lindsey has 8 songs he can do whatever he likes with. They could become his next solo album, or they could become a Stevie-less FM album. Personally, I think if they just told her they were doing an album with or without her, she would cave. In any case, it's easy to say she has all the power, but it's only the power they willingly give her. If the songs never see the light of day just because Stevie isn't on board, it says more about their artisitic integrity than hers.

That would be the best possible outcome then he can tour it next year with his One Man Show! :nod::D:blob2:

[Johnny Stew]

^Exactly. If SYW had sold millions I'm sure she'd find it in her heart to love it.

She loves 'In Your Dreams' and it didn't sell millions.

[Johnny Stew]

unless they have some legal clause that if Stevie (or any one of them) says they can't put an album under FM name out without their ok.

Or maybe... just maybe... they don't want to put out an album without Stevie.

[shackin'up]

I'm a little confused by the tone of many of these messages, blaming Stevie for the lack of musical output. If FM has no record label, there is no one to demand her involvement. Lindsey has 8 songs he can do whatever he likes with. They could become his next solo album, or they could become a Stevie-less FM album. Personally, I think if they just told her they were doing an album with or without her, she would cave. In any case, it's easy to say she has all the power, but it's only the power they willingly give her. If the songs never see the light of day just because Stevie isn't on board, it says more about their artisitic integrity than hers.

No. They recorded them because they wanted her on it. They are even recorded in her key. It was never the plan to record an FM album without her. It was a strategy to try to pull her over. A risk, that LB was aware of. She did not bow. The guys are NOT complaining, we are. Because WE are the victims of not having a full fleshed Fleetwood Mac album.

And I don't like that.

[michelej1]

Yeah, Christine sold her catalogue but I don't know whether it was outright or just a 25 year right to the revenue. Someone here once said she had sold it for $150m. :o

I remember the fiasco over The Beatles catalogue being bought by Michael Jackson in the 80s. McCartney went nuts, but eventually the ownership reverted to the original owners, I think, by length of time. I don't know the terminology (I'm a trust lawyer, not an Intellectual Property specialist!).

If Christine sold her publishing rights, she still gets songwriting royalties. Just like Lennon/McCartney have songwriting royalties, even though they lost publishing rights to Michael Jackson and Sony music (Sony loaned Jackson the money to buy the publishing rights).

So, Christine still would have 50% songwriting, even if she sold publishing.

Michele

[shackin'up]

Or maybe... just maybe... they don't want to put out an album without Stevie.

Well, It's totally clear that they didn't want to do an album without her. They took a risk. We haven't heard lindsey or Mick complaining, but a lot of people over here state that she doesn't want to record. If That's So, she can Give them cart blanche to do whatever they want with it. But the boys are playing the game with her, in the hope she'll add something the coming year, So they can put it out.

[Ulpian]

If Christine sold her publishing rights, she still gets songwriting royalties. Just like Lennon/McCartney have songwriting royalties, even though they lost publishing rights to Michael Jackson and Sony music (Sony loaned Jackson the money to buy the publishing rights).

So, Christine still would have 50% songwriting, even if she sold publishing.

Michele

Thanks! :thumbsup:

[michelej1]

Well, It's totally clear that they didn't want to do an album without her. They took a risk. We haven't heard lindsey or Mick complaining, but a lot of people over here state that she doesn't want to record. If That's So, she can Give them cart blanche to do whatever they want with it. But the boys are playing the game with her, in the hope she'll add something the coming year, So they can put it out.

I guess the good news is I don't think the other songs will never see the light of day. The only question is where will we get them, as an FM album or as an LB album. We have Mick and John on them anyway.


Michele

[Johnny Stew]

Well, It's totally clear that they didn't want to do an album without her. They took a risk. We haven't heard lindsey or Mick complaining, but a lot of people over here state that she doesn't want to record. If That's So, she can Give them cart blanche to do whatever they want with it. But the boys are playing the game with her, in the hope she'll add something the coming year, So they can put it out.

I understand what you're saying. I think, however, that they already have carte blanche to do whatever they wish with those remaining tracks -- with or without Stevie's blessing. They're not Fleetwood Mac songs, so I doubt that there are any ownership issues. They're Lindsey Buckingham songs, with Mick & John on them. As such, they could release them to iTunes tomorrow if they really wanted to.

Like you said, Gerald -- they took a risk. Who knows, maybe it will still pay off. Maybe it won't. But Stevie's not holding the songs for ransom (not that you implied that she is), and we'll get to hear them some day.

In the meantime (like what I did there? ;) ), I wouldn't be surprised if Mick's been putting a bug in Christine's ear about these new songs of Lindsey's that are already largely finished.

[tothegypsy]

It's interesting that Stevie finally decided that she was going to create a solo album for the sake of creation, regardless of how much it sold, but now seems to be back to those same old concerns about a new Mac record.

I wonder if she just simply finds working with Dave Stewart that much more enjoyable than working with Lindsey, despite them apparently getting along well?

[redbird]

I wonder how she would feel about recording a Buckingham Nicks II album.

[shackin'up]

They're not Fleetwood Mac songs, so I doubt that there are any ownership issues. They're Lindsey Buckingham songs, with Mick & John on them. As such, they could release them to iTunes tomorrow if they really ...

In the meantime (like what I did there? ;) ), I wouldn't be surprised if Mick's been putting a bug in Christine's ear about these new songs of Lindsey's that are already largely finished.

Not So, stewie. These are FM songs. Lindsey recorded them with just one purpose: FM. He even recorded them with Stevie in mind singing onthem. That is something he's never done before. He has no plans putting them out as solowork. It's no solowork. For him. Even you can imagine that.

Yes. Ofcourse Mick has played the tracks for Chris.

[MikeInNV]

The guys are NOT complaining, we are. Because WE are the victims of not having a full fleshed Fleetwood Mac album.

And I don't like that.

Fair enough, for those that want a full-fleshed FM album (although some wouldn't consider the SYW four a full-fleshed Fleewtood Mac album; it would need Christine....and if they get her, Stevie won't hold anything up).

I just feel like it's the knee-jerk reaction to couch everything as Stevie's fault. Even some LB fans were on her case for delaying this tour by a year, which never made sense to me since it resulted in what was probably the best year ever to be a Lindsey fan. And a lot of people said they would be more than happy to attend a Men of Mac tour, which is something they certainly could have done if they wanted to, but there was no money to be made. (Money matters to more people than just Stevie.)

[elle]

I wonder how she would feel about recording a Buckingham Nicks II album.

right, didn't she talk about wanting BN 2 and that's what she slated Without You for originally. and she wanted a small BN tour... some time in between the FM tour this year.

[elle]

Even some LB fans were on her case for delaying this tour by a year, which never made sense to me since it resulted in what was probably the best year ever to be a Lindsey fan.
as a Lindsey fan i feel nothing but the outmost gratitude to SN for the last year - we know that OMS would have not happened if it weren't for Stevie not wanting to tour with the Mac. :nod:

and i'm counting on her having enough of the mac boys before this year ends too. :thumbsup: if it were up to Lindsey he'd probably go for FM album next year, then another FM tour in 2015, then BN2, then BN tour after that... you know, cycles and all. ;)

the problem i have with Stevie's recent statement is that it seems to be stretching out the timeline for a new FM album (we'll do a little bit now, if we decide you love it enough then maybe we'll work a little bit more, then maybe... eventually... we'll put together the whole album), which means more LB time spending on FM stuff. that FM album needs to come out this year, during the tour.

plus i do want to hear new songs Lindsey, Mick and John put together, whether or not they are poppy fleetwood mac-y sounding songs or not. and i don't want to wait another year or two for that to happen.

[SteveMacD]

right, didn't she talk about wanting BN 2 and that's what she slated Without You for originally. and she wanted a small BN tour... some time in between the FM tour this year.
I suspect Lindsey pointed out how ridiculous doing another BN album (as opposed to Fleetwood Mac) and tour would be.

[elle]

I suspect Lindsey pointed out how ridiculous doing another BN album (as opposed to Fleetwood Mac) and tour would be.

he said in that RS interview that it would be logistically hard to do it withing FM tour like she wanted... i think he wants it after the mac tour. :shrug: :distress:

[SteveMacD]

he said in that RS interview that it would be logistically hard to do it withing FM tour like she wanted... i think he wants it after the mac tour. :shrug: :distress:
I gathered he was talking about doing a BN tour. I suspect he'd rather just record new music under the Fleetwood Mac banner. What I find odd is that she wouldn't mind working with Lindsey as BN, but not FM.

[elle]

I gathered he was talking about doing a BN tour. I suspect he'd rather just record new music under the Fleetwood Mac banner. What I find odd is that she wouldn't mind working with Lindsey as BN, but not FM.

maybe she wants to work with linds and not with mick and john... yeah right ;)

[WildHearted]

I gathered he was talking about doing a BN tour. I suspect he'd rather just record new music under the Fleetwood Mac banner. What I find odd is that she wouldn't mind working with Lindsey as BN, but not FM.

Maybe she thinks it won't be as tense if it's a more low-key (relatively, of course) project and it's just the two of them? Without all of the hooplah that surrounds FM. I don't know.

[vivfox]

at least get out those 3 new tracks... Lindsey said in this same interview they'll put them out online before the tour starts. there's not much time anymore so they better get on it.


I wonder how Stevie feels about Lindsey's songs competing with You Can't Fix This for radio airplay?

[MikeInNV]

I wonder how Stevie feels about Lindsey's songs competing with You Can't Fix This for radio airplay?

I doubt anything will get enough airplay to make it worth worrying about. It was more of an issue when Leather and Lace and Trouble were on the charts together. (It's also why they wouldn't have to worry about Chris having a hit single and then not going on tour....no FM single is going to get enough airplay in 2013 to disappoint casual concert-goers when it's not played live.)

[vivfox]

Christine sold her catalogue but I don't know whether it was outright or just a 25 year right to the revenue. Someone here once said she had sold it for $150m.


That would be me. I better find that proof one of these days or MJ is gonna have my head.

[Johnny Stew]

Not So, stewie. These are FM songs. Lindsey recorded them with just one purpose: FM. He even recorded them with Stevie in mind singing onthem. That is something he's never done before. He has no plans putting them out as solowork. It's no solowork. For him. Even you can imagine that.

He may have recorded them with a purpose, but nothing prevents him from re-purposing them. If some of the original 'Gift of Screws' tracks hadn't been used for 'Say You Will,' Mick, John & Chris would have all been on a Lindsey Buckingham album -- on songs that sounded very much like Fleetwood Mac, no less. A few of the tracks Mick & John played on still made it to Buckingham solo albums.

So it wouldn't be entirely without precedent, and re-purposing the 2012 tracks wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.

[CADreaming]

he said in that RS interview that it would be logistically hard to do it withing FM tour like she wanted... i think he wants it after the mac tour. :shrug: :distress:

Yes I think they are trying to determine the best timing for BN and that's part of the hold up - for everything.

[Johnny Stew]

right, didn't she talk about wanting BN 2 and that's what she slated Without You for originally. and she wanted a small BN tour... some time in between the FM tour this year.

Stevie told Rolling Stone that she wanted to release "Without You" as a bonus track on an anniversary edition of the original Buckingham Nicks album, and Lindsey reiterated Stevie's intentions for it to be used as a bonus track (and he mentioned that they'd most likely do a song of his as a bonus track as well).

I don't recall anything being said recently about a second Buckingham Nicks album.

[CADreaming]

Stevie told Rolling Stone that she wanted to release "Without You" as a bonus track on an anniversary edition of the original Buckingham Nicks album, and Lindsey reiterated Stevie's intentions for it to be used as a bonus track (and he mentioned that they'd most likely do a song of his as a bonus track as well).

I don't recall anything being said recently about a second Buckingham Nicks album.

It was insinuated in the video interview where she sang a bit of WY. But, BN II is not as concrete as the BN release. I think LB wouldn't mind doing new material though.

[elle]

He may have recorded them with a purpose, but nothing prevents him from re-purposing them. If some of the original 'Gift of Screws' tracks hadn't been used for 'Say You Will,' Mick, John & Chris would have all been on a Lindsey Buckingham album -- on songs that sounded very much like Fleetwood Mac, no less. A few of the tracks Mick & John played on still made it to Buckingham solo albums.

So it wouldn't be entirely without precedent, and re-purposing the 2012 tracks wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.

you know, if these new FM tracks they recorded are anything like GOS1 tracks that would be spectacular. i don't think they are unfortunately.

GOS1 tracks had a lot of edgy or typical LB solo material among them, some of it people who don't like that kind of thing still dislike on SYW... just look at all the complaints against Murrow or Red Rover.

from everything they've been saying about the 8 new tracks, those are probably mellower, more poppy, fleetwood mac-y sounding material.

so i don't think it's about who plays on the tracks, it's more about material itself.

[Johnny Stew]

It was insinuated in the video interview where she sang a bit of WY. But, BN II is not as concrete as the BN release. I think LB wouldn't mind doing new material though.

That's the Access Hollywood (http://www.nbcnews.com/video/access-hollywood/50788344#50788344) one, right? Stevie says, "we were thinking that maybe we would hold it for the Buckingham Nicks album, which is the 40th anniversary is coming up."

I didn't get the impression she was talking about recording a sequel to Buckingham Nicks out of that, but was referring again to the potential reissue of the original album.

[SteveMacD]

Re: BN reissue,

Will there be a sticker on the plastic wrapping saying "File under Fleetwood Mac"?

Should "Twisted" be included (I say yes).

[Johnny Stew]

you know, if these new FM tracks they recorded are anything like GOS1 tracks that would be spectacular. i don't think they are unfortunately.

GOS1 tracks had a lot of edgy or typical LB solo material among them, some of it people who don't like that kind of thing still dislike on SYW... just look at all the complaints against Murrow or Red Rover.

from everything they've been saying about the 8 new tracks, those are probably mellower, more poppy, fleetwood mac-y sounding material.

so i don't think it's about who plays on the tracks, it's more about material itself.

I know what you mean, but my point was that "Steal Your Heart Away" and "Bleed To Love Her" were very nearly Buckingham solo tracks, and "Down On Rodeo" was -- and none of them sound at all unlike Fleetwood Mac.

So if nothing comes of the other six tracks they recorded last year, Fleetwood Mac-wise, I don't think it's improbable to think he could use those on a solo album. Especially if he rounds them out with another six "edgier," more solo-esque tracks.

[shackin'up]

He may have recorded them with a purpose, but nothing prevents him from re-purposing them. If some of the original 'Gift of Screws' tracks hadn't been used for 'Say You Will,' Mick, John & Chris would have all been on a Lindsey Buckingham album -- on songs that sounded very much like Fleetwood Mac, no less. A few of the tracks Mick & John played on still made it to Buckingham solo albums.

So it wouldn't be entirely without precedent, and re-purposing the 2012 tracks wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.

Come on. Are you listening to me? It's not necessary to make me a list of LB songs with M&J on it in he past, and LB solosongs that became FM songs. Duh.

I just say that it these recordings have a very special position in all the recordings he did the last 25 years. The simple suggestion of repurposing may be the "normal way of things in his life", it Does NOT acknowledge the focus and idea of these recordings, that seem to be a pretty unique set, just because of the fact that they are written and recorded in the ghost of what he thinks, she thinks that is typical FM.

THAT, is the reason Why I want to hear them, with her on it, because they were meant to have her on it, That has not been the case on anything of his songs that ended up on SYW, with maybe the openingtrack as an exception.

Whatever.

[Ulpian]

I can't believe I am sitting here reading these discussions, because I really don't care for this "Buckingham-Nicks-with-a-rhythm-section" lineup as a recording entity, no matter how much I try, though I am happy to see them live. To be perfectly frank, without Christine, I couldn't care less if they never record together again.

[TheWILDheart]

It's interesting that Stevie finally decided that she was going to create a solo album for the sake of creation, regardless of how much it sold, but now seems to be back to those same old concerns about a new Mac record.


The ridiculous thing is, an album with the name "Fleetwood Mac" on it will ALWAYS out-sell and album with the words "Stevie Nicks" or "Lindsey Buckingham" on it. Especially outside the US where neither have had hugely successful solo careers. Especially with the insane hype around the tour, a new album to follow it seems like the most logical approach.

Having said that, since when has Stevie ever taken the logical approach to something? :rolleyes:. In recent years, she seems to have really lost touch with the music business - especially to say that she was so on the ball during SYW.

[Johnny Stew]

Come on. Are you listening to me? It's not necessary to make me a list of LB songs with M&J on it in he past, and LB solosongs that became FM songs. Duh.

I just say that it these recordings have a very special position in all the recordings he did the last 25 years. The simple suggestion of repurposing may be the "normal way of things in his life", it Does NOT acknowledge the focus and idea of these recordings, that seem to be a pretty unique set, just because of the fact that they are written and recorded in the ghost of what he thinks, she thinks that is typical FM.

THAT, is the reason Why I want to hear them, with her on it, because they were meant to have her on it, That has not been the case on anything of his songs that ended up on SYW, with maybe the openingtrack as an exception.

Whatever.

You stated earlier in this thread that Lindsey, Mick & John should still release them as Fleetwood Mac songs, even without Stevie's participation. I didn't get the sense that the inclusion of Stevie's voice was as important to you as the songs being released in general. As such, I was making the case for re-purposing them as solo tracks, if she decides not to record.

I know Lindsey envisioned them as Fleetwood Mac songs with Stevie singing on them -- but, in my view, if she doesn't ultimately sing on them, then all bets are off as to which artist name gets attached to them ("Fleetwood Mac" or "Lindsey Buckingham").

[CADreaming]

That's the Access Hollywood (http://www.nbcnews.com/video/access-hollywood/50788344#50788344) one, right? Stevie says, "we were thinking that maybe we would hold it for the Buckingham Nicks album, which is the 40th anniversary is coming up."

I didn't get the impression she was talking about recording a sequel to Buckingham Nicks out of that, but was referring again to the potential reissue of the original album.

It was the interviewer who mentioned BN II. I believe I have read comments from Lindsey before about doing something new- he may have just been saying they should do a couple of bonus tracks for the anniversary thing though.

[PenguinHead]

if you are an artist and have the need to create and put out new music then you do it, whether or not people buy it or love it. maybe they'll love it now or rediscover it 5 years down the road... and maybe they won't. but you are moving forward and being creative. :thumbsup:

however, if you are just putting out new music for money and commercial success (which you were lucky enough to get in troves and can still reel in millions by touring and royalties anyway... so why do you need huge sales of new music??), than don't claim that you are still an artist, please. :sorry:

You took the words (I would have said) right out of my mouth! Stevie's perspective is half-ass backwards. Let's hope Lindsey and Mick have a different perspective.

[CADreaming]

Well, isn't that the age old irony? Artists work hard at their craft to become successful and then when they do, maintaining success takes precedence over the art. I think Stevie is still an artist, but she's always wanted to make money off of it - and lots of it. Isn't the goal always to make a living (money to support yourself) by doing what you love (music/songwriting) instead of any other mainstream job? It's crazy to think that's not the ultimate goal. If anyone says otherwise, they're lying to themselves. You'd have to look at the numbers to see if Stevie made money off IYD. For example, if she was only interested in the money & she was working so hard to promote it strictly for sales, why would she bother doing another album at all if she didn't want to fill a creative void? She could have just toured. Both things work together - the art makes the money, the money makes the art. I can't blame on her for that. She didn't invent the music business, she just works in it.

[mitzo]

Well, isn't that the age old irony? Artists work hard at their craft to become successful and then when they do, maintaining success takes precedence over the art. I think Stevie is still an artist, but she's always wanted to make money off of it - and lots of it. Isn't the goal always to make a living (money to support yourself) by doing what you love (music/songwriting) instead of any other mainstream job? It's crazy to think that's not the ultimate goal. If anyone says otherwise, they're lying to themselves. You'd have to look at the numbers to see if Stevie made money off IYD. For example, if she was only interested in the money & she was working so hard to promote it strictly for sales, why would she bother doing another album at all if she didn't want to fill a creative void? She could have just toured. Both things work together - the art makes the money, the money makes the art. I can't blame on her for that. She didn't invent the music business, she just works in it.

We see plenty of other vintage acts who still release new music and seem content to see sales much lower than IYD, and who tour and play in small venues. Look at Lindsey's recent flurry of activity, for example. Did he lose money on all that?

[vivfox]

So if nothing comes of the other six tracks they recorded last year, Fleetwood Mac-wise, I don't think it's improbable to think he could use those on a solo album. Especially if he rounds them out with another six "edgier," more solo-esque tracks.


This has always sort of bugged me about Lindsey. Ever since Tusk, his songs have mostly taken on a strange vibe. I have always wished that he would get over that style of weirdness and get back to recording the beautiful music he created between 1973-1977.Not to say I don't love his strange stuff because there are some that I do, such as Murrow, The Ledge, That's Enough For Me.

[CADreaming]

We see plenty of other vintage acts who still release new music and seem content to see sales much lower than IYD, and who tour and play in small venues. Look at Lindsey's recent flurry of activity, for example. Did he lose money on all that?

It's a possibility. But, if he only did that all the time - he couldn't afford to do it. He's also not only in it for the art.

[RoryGilmore]

Hey I'm new here anyway

I think maybe Stevie want's too see how things go on the tour first then maybe think about making a new album. Like they have recorded 2 maybe 3 new songs? So maybe she wants too see how that goes down with the crowd.

Also Lindsey wants to make some new B/N music so maybe she wants to take that into consideration as well. And they have reconnected a lot lately.

[elle]

We see plenty of other vintage acts who still release new music and seem content to see sales much lower than IYD, and who tour and play in small venues. Look at Lindsey's recent flurry of activity, for example. Did he lose money on all that?

word on the street is that he actually made money on his last year's solo tour. but it was certainly not millions he will make on the "big machine" tour.

i don't think almost any artist is making much money on album sales anymore... there was a story about Gaga having to cancel 25 tour dates just today, and the comment made by a reporter was "considering artists today make money touring and not by album sales she certainly didn't cancel these lightheartedly"... or something like that. that's talking about current artist selling millions of albums in the most recent years.

[CADreaming]

word on the street is that he actually made money on his last year's solo tour. but it was certainly not millions he will make on the "big machine" tour.

i don't think almost any artist is making much money on album sales anymore... there was a story about Gaga having to cancel 25 tour dates just today, and the comment made by a reporter was "considering artists today make money touring and not by album sales she certainly didn't cancel these lightheartedly"... or something like that. that's talking about current artist selling millions of albums in the most recent years.

Excellent point. I'm not judging FM for being from the old school where labels gave you big budgets, focused on artist development, branded (with all the necessary evils that incurs), etc. So, they are ducks out of water right now and have to figure out how to maneuver in this new world. I'm sure it's really hard and a bit of a culture shock. I believe there was a time when an artist could cut out touring almost altogether and still make a very comfortable living based off royalties/publishing if they wrote their own stuff.

By the way, I bet LB did make money off the OMS tour. Stan works for peanuts, right? Lol. ;)

[FierySequences]

So many opinions on this topic...thought I'd through my 2 cents in.

I agree with CADreaming and others. I do believe Stevie wants to tour for the money. hell who wouldn't? Does that make her a bad person-absolutley not.

LB has 3 children to support and didn't they just buy another house? I'm not throwing flames here, but it seems if Anyone was doing FM for the money it is logical that it would be LB and Mick. Certainly not Stevie, she has a dog :nod:

I'd love new material from the Mac (actually moreso than a SN album right now). But I believe SN just doesn't want to record with the Mac/LB and do another SYW. Her heart and creativity is Not there. Although I would LOVE Mac material, I don't see the point in pressuring her. I'd rather her want to do it, than deliver lackluster songs.

[SteveMacD]

Well, isn't that the age old irony? Artists work hard at their craft to become successful and then when they do, maintaining success takes precedence over the art. I think Stevie is still an artist, but she's always wanted to make money off of it - and lots of it.
In today's world, nobody is making lots of money on music sales. There will always be a market for new music, but the days of mega-millions are over for Stevie, and have been for some time. The last commercially successful studio album, by the standard she seems to be setting, solo or Mac, was TITN.

How/why do people like Elvis Costello, Paul McCartney, Neil Young, and Emmylou Harris find ways of releasing new music when they know it most likely won't come close to matching their past success, but Fleetwood Mac has only released THREE studio albums in 25 years (all relative bombs by their standards)?

Isn't the goal always to make a living (money to support yourself) by doing what you love (music/songwriting) instead of any other mainstream job? It's crazy to think that's not the ultimate goal.
That hasn't been an issue for Stevie since 1976.

why would she bother doing another album at all if she didn't want to fill a creative void?
She's in a band where everybody else wants to fill a creative void. But, I guess that would interfere with her "art".

[redtulip]

So many opinions on this topic...thought I'd through my 2 cents in.

I agree with CADreaming and others. I do believe Stevie wants to tour for the money. hell who wouldn't? Does that make her a bad person-absolutley not.

LB has 3 children to support and didn't they just buy another house? I'm not throwing flames here, but it seems if Anyone was doing FM for the money it is logical that it would be LB and Mick. Certainly not Stevie, she has a dog :nod:

I'd love new material from the Mac (actually moreso than a SN album right now). But I believe SN just doesn't want to record with the Mac/LB and do another SYW. Her heart and creativity is Not there. Although I would LOVE Mac material, I don't see the point in pressuring her. I'd rather her want to do it, than deliver lackluster songs.

Stevie probably supports just as many people as Lindsey. I'm sure she helps out family members and she's always got an entourage with her, that doesn't come cheap.

Excellent point. I'm not judging FM for being from the old school where labels gave you big budgets, focused on artist development, branded (with all the necessary evils that incurs), etc. So, they are ducks out of water right now and have to figure out how to maneuver in this new world. I'm sure it's really hard and a bit of a culture shock. I believe there was a time when an artist could cut out touring almost altogether and still make a very comfortable living based off royalties/publishing if they wrote their own stuff.

By the way, I bet LB did make money off the OMS tour. Stan works for peanuts, right? Lol. ;)

By not touring with a band, Lindsey doesn't have to pay band members, their techs, and I assume probably a few roadies to move around the equipment as well. Think about it, much less overhead for OMS, regardless of what his remaining crew is paid.

[SteveMacD]

I'd love new material from the Mac (actually moreso than a SN album right now). But I believe SN just doesn't want to record with the Mac/LB and do another SYW. Her heart and creativity is Not there. Although I would LOVE Mac material, I don't see the point in pressuring her. I'd rather her want to do it, than deliver lackluster songs.
So, she's holding the band hostage. If she doesn't want to write, she could always do somebody else's material and save her "art" for her solo records.

[bombaysaffires]

We see plenty of other vintage acts who still release new music and seem content to see sales much lower than IYD, and who tour and play in small venues. Look at Lindsey's recent flurry of activity, for example. Did he lose money on all that?

he surely doesn't tour with as huge a staff as a Mac tour does, and when he tours without any other musicians to pay.... I bet he does actually make a few bucks.

[tothegypsy]

The ridiculous thing is, an album with the name "Fleetwood Mac" on it will ALWAYS out-sell and album with the words "Stevie Nicks" or "Lindsey Buckingham" on it. Especially outside the US where neither have had hugely successful solo careers. Especially with the insane hype around the tour, a new album to follow it seems like the most logical approach.

Having said that, since when has Stevie ever taken the logical approach to something? :rolleyes:. In recent years, she seems to have really lost touch with the music business - especially to say that she was so on the ball during SYW.

My memory may be a bit foggy, but didn't Trouble In Shangri-La and Say You Will actually sell fairly similar amounts?

[CADreaming]

In today's world, nobody is making lots of money on music sales.

Exactly.

How/why do people like Elvis Costello, Paul McCartney, Neil Young, and Emmylou Harris find ways of releasing new music when they know it most likely won't come close to matching their past success, but Fleetwood Mac has only released THREE studio albums in 25 years (all relative bombs by their standards)?

All those people are solo artists as opposed to a band with multiple members. You need to have a bigger piece of pie to split.


That hasn't been an issue for Stevie since 1976.

So, she doesn't still need to make money to pay her bills? Regardless of her status, everybody's gotta do that...


She's in a band where everybody else wants to fill a creative void. But, I guess that would interfere with her "art".

I think she's just trying to be smart about it. I don't think she's totally against it. No one remembers during Unleashed when she said they would do another FM album "because the world deserves it"... :D

[SteveMacD]

My memory may be a bit foggy, but didn't Trouble In Shangri-La and Say You Will actually sell fairly similar amounts?
I think I remember that SYW and BTM sold similar amounts (over a million), but TISL only 663,000.

[elle]

I think she's just trying to be smart about it. I don't think she's totally against it. No one remembers during Unleashed when she said they would do another FM album "because the world deserves it"... :D

lol - and that was 4 years ago! guess since it needs to be at least 3 years in between Mac tours, maybe we'll hear soon how many years does it need to be between Mac albums... it's looking more and more like 15 rather than 6 or 10 :laugh: ;)

[SteveMacD]

lol - and that was 4 years ago! guess since it needs to be at least 3 years in between Mac tours, maybe we'll hear soon how many years does it need to be between Mac albums... it's looking more and more like 15 rather than 6 or 10 :laugh: ;)
At the rate they're going, the next FM record may be a BN record by default.

[CADreaming]

lol - and that was 4 years ago! guess since it needs to be at least 3 years in between Mac tours, maybe we'll hear soon how many years does it need to be between Mac albums... it's looking more and more like 15 rather than 6 or 10 :laugh: ;)

5 between Mirage & TITN, 6 between The Dance & SYW. On track! ;)

You're forgetting they didn't have a deal. Obviously, some negotiating with Warners had taken place. What do you do if your record label & management say they don't want a full FM album? I think they test other waters - and I think they're doing that. Be a little patient.

At the rate they're going, the next FM record may be a BN record by default.

Hmmm... and that may have been the plan all along!

[redtulip]

5 between Mirage & TITN, 6 between The Dance & SYW. On track! ;)

You're forgetting they didn't have a deal. Obviously, some negotiating with Warners had taken place. What do you do if your record label & management say they don't want a full FM album? I think they test other waters - and I think they're doing that. Be a little patient.



Hmmm... and that may have been the plan all along!

They have a label, Lindsey's. I don't think they need a major label for an album release anymore. They'd probably make a lot more money that way too without so many hands in the cookie jar.

[mitzo]

Stop calling yourself an artist if you do not create. A singer/songwriter's craft is the creation of new songs. If you do not do that then you are not an artist. If you stop doing that then you are a former artist. Period.

[CADreaming]

They have a label, Lindsey's. I don't think they need a major label for an album release anymore. They'd probably make a lot more money that way too without so many hands in the cookie jar.

Yeah, that's the water I was talking about but I really don't see that happening. And, I guess they don't need it now. But, it's probably an option if WB totally washed their hands.

Stop calling yourself an artist if you do not create. A singer/songwriter's craft is the creation of new songs. If you do not do that then you are not an artist. If you stop doing that then you are a former artist. Period.

Who stopped creating??? There are many ways to be creative anyway.

Y'all just want to place blame squarely on Stevie's shoulders for getting an EP instead of an album, when as always, we are not privy to all the information. It's speculative.

For all we know, the Rumours reissue was part if the deal. They may have had to do that to be able to get new stuff out. And, sure they don't have to go the big label route but I'm sure there are still reasons they all prefer that - even if they have to smile & make nice. That could change - maybe it is. Time will tell.

[HejiraNYC]

Stop calling yourself an artist if you do not create. A singer/songwriter's craft is the creation of new songs. If you do not do that then you are not an artist. If you stop doing that then you are a former artist. Period.

So I guess, by your definition, Van Gogh is no longer an artist because he doesn't create new paintings because he's, um, DEAD.

He's a "former artist." :rolleyes:

[shackin'up]

You stated earlier in this thread that Lindsey, Mick & John should still release them as Fleetwood Mac songs, even without Stevie's participation. I didn't get the sense that the inclusion of Stevie's voice was as important to you as the songs being released in general. As such, I was making the case for re-purposing them as solo tracks, if she decides not to record.

I know Lindsey envisioned them as Fleetwood Mac songs with Stevie singing on them -- but, in my view, if she doesn't ultimately sing on them, then all bets are off as to which artist name gets attached to them ("Fleetwood Mac" or "Lindsey Buckingham").

I said that tongue in cheek; That I secretly hope that she bails out and that L, M and J release them as FM to big succes. I'm not waiting for miss diva to sing on them; Lindsey is. And I'm very curious what he envisioned with it. That includes Miss Nicks. If you'd ask me what I want, not counting what LB wants, I'd say: start an all Male Mac. But you all know that.

[jkmaletic]

I said that tongue in cheek; That I secretly hope that she bails out and that L, M and J release them as FM to big succes. I'm not waiting for miss diva to sing on them; Lindsey is. And I'm very curious what he envisioned with it. That includes Miss Nicks. If you'd ask me what I want, not counting what LB wants, I'd say: start an all Male Mac. But you all know that.

An all-male Fleetwood Mac? That's cool I guess. They could change the name of the band to Fleetwood Sack!

;)

[shackin'up]

An all-male Fleetwood Mac? That's cool I guess. They could change the name of the band to Fleetwood Sack!

;)

:thumbsup:

[TrueFaith77]

Hmmm... and that may have been the plan all along!

That's morbid. :laugh:

[CADreaming]

That's morbid. :laugh:

Insert sinister laugh icon. :D

[SteveMacD]

An all-male Fleetwood Mac?
How ridiculous would that be?





















http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/peter-green-to-emulate-christ-19700416/1000x600/20130113-fleetwoodmac-christ-600x-1358093976.jpg

[McTrouble]

Men of Mac - how cool, and sooooooo much better! :D:D:p:p:blob2:

[jkmaletic]

Men of Mac - how cool, and sooooooo much better! :D:D:p:p:blob2:

Have at it. More solo Stevie for me. Everyone wins!! :D

FLEETWOOD SACK - Tea-baggin' across the USA!!

[shackin'up]

How ridiculous would that be?


http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/peter-green-to-emulate-christ-19700416/1000x600/20130113-fleetwoodmac-christ-600x-1358093976.jpg

I know Steve. It's a cycle. :D

I really wouldn't mind seeing Fleetwood Mac as a powerrocktrio with folky touches.

[CADreaming]

Maybe they're kicking BN out and bringing Christine back. :thumbsup:

[mitzo]

So I guess, by your definition, Van Gogh is no longer an artist because he doesn't create new paintings because he's, um, DEAD.

He's a "former artist." :rolleyes:

He's dead. Stevie is not.

[chiliD]

So I guess, by your definition, Van Gogh is no longer an artist because he doesn't create new paintings because he's, um, DEAD.

He's a "former artist." :rolleyes:

As in the Monty Python skit: "It is a LATE Parrot, it ceases to exist!"

Well, pretty much the same as Jimi Hendrix still releasing "new" albums 43 years after his passing. With "new" material just being still amazingly unreleased versions of songs that have appeared in different incarnatons on the last 6...7?...8?...Jimi Hendrix albums.

[elle]

How ridiculous would that be?

http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/peter-green-to-emulate-christ-19700416/1000x600/20130113-fleetwoodmac-christ-600x-1358093976.jpg

I know Steve. It's a cycle. :D

lol. i was thinking the same when reading that.

[elle]

Maybe they're kicking BN out and bringing Christine back. :thumbsup:

maybe :D. or, since we've seen FM incarnation without B, i wouldn't mind seeing the incarnation with BM, without N. but that will never happen.

[WildHearted]

maybe :D. or, since we've seen FM incarnation without B, i wouldn't mind seeing the incarnation with BM, without N. but that will never happen.

That's basically Tango. :cool:

[elle]

That's basically Tango. :cool:

ha - SN on 3 songs; sounds familiar! :angel:

[SteveMacD]

As in the Monty Python skit: "It is a LATE Parrot, it ceases to exist!"

Well, pretty much the same as Jimi Hendrix still releasing "new" albums 43 years after his passing. With "new" material just being still amazingly unreleased versions of songs that have appeared in different incarnatons on the last 6...7?...8?...Jimi Hendrix albums.
Jimi and Tupac should do a tour.

[SteveMacD]

ha - SN on 3 songs; sounds familiar! :angel:
Not if you make a playlist that takes her songs out and replaces them with a some choice B-sides (specifically "You & I, Part I" and "Down Endless Street").

[vivfox]

Stop calling yourself an artist if you do not create. If you stop doing that then you are a former artist. Period.


Shall we now call her The Artist formerly known as Stevie?

[WildHearted]

ha - SN on 3 songs; sounds familiar! :angel:

Hey! Don't forget her 3 words in the chorus of Little Lies...

[vivfox]

Have at it. More solo Stevie for me. Everyone wins!!


Sounds to me like they've got you riled up.

[Johnny Stew]

Have at it. More solo Stevie for me. Everyone wins!! :D

In the current situation, I'd much rather have more solo Stevie, too. So I'm with you there. However, like I've said, if they can get Christine back to record with them, then I'm completely down for a new Fleetwood Mac album.

I'm to the point where those are the only two scenarios I'd be really excited about. Anything else just doesn't have the same appeal.

[michelej1]

Obviously, Clive Davis isn't relevant to us, but I did find Kelly Clarkson's letter about him and the way she had to get the songs she wanted released or fight him to have her song filled with the guitars and instrumentation she thought it should have, so it would sound the way she envisioned interesting. I think it is in keeping with our discussions about creativity and artists vs. the music industry and how the two interests are so often opposed to each other.

http://www.whosay.com/kellyclarkson/content/515466?wsref=tw&code=GLO5cY7

So I just heard Clive Davis is releasing a memoir and spreading false information about me and my music. I refuse to be bullied and I just have to clear up his memory lapses and misinformation for myself and for my fans. It feels like a violation. Growing up is awesome because you learn you don't have to cower to anyone - even Clive Davis.

First, he says I burst into "hysterical sobbing" in his office when he demanded Since You Been Gone be on my album. Not true at all. His stories and songs are mixed up. I did want more guitars added to the original demo and Clive did not. Max, Luke and I still fought for the bigger sound and we prevailed and I couldn't be more proud of the life of that song. I resent him dampening that song in any way.

But, yes, I did cry in his office once. I cried after I played him a song I had written about my life called "Because Of You." I cried because he hated it and told me verbatim that I was a "sh*tty writer who should be grateful for the gifts that he bestows upon me." He continued on about how the song didn't rhyme and how I should just shut up and sing. This was devastating coming from a man who I, as a young girl, considered a musical hero and was so honored to work with.

But I continued to fight for the song and the label relented. And it became a worldwide hit. He didn't include that in the book.

He also goes on to say My December wasn't successful because I co-penned the album and it didn't have "pop hits". Well, first let me say, I've co-penned many of my "pop hits." Secondly, My December went platinum (It sold 20,000 less than All I Ever Wanted which followed My December.) Hardly a huge failure. Never Again, the ONLY single they released in the US from that record was a Top 10 hit. I am very proud of that and I have my fans to thank. But, again, what's most interesting about his story is what he leaves out: He doesn't mention how he stood up in front of his company at a convention and belittled me and my music and completely sabotaged the entire project. It never had a chance to reach it's full potential. My December was an album I needed to make for myself for many reasons and the fact that I was so completely disregarded and disrespected was so disheartening, there really aren't words to explain….

Anyway, I love my job. I love my music. I love my fans. I love my label and all of my professional relationships… now. And I am grateful for Clive for teaching me to know the difference.

Cheers to another amazing year! And, as always, thanks for listening!

KC

[SteveMacD]

Obviously, Clive Davis isn't relevant to us, but I did find Kelly Clarkson's letter about him and the way she had to get the songs she wanted released or fight him to have her song filled with the guitars and instrumentation she thought it should have, so it would sound the way she envisioned interesting. I think it is in keeping with our discussions about creativity and artists vs. the music industry and how the two interests are so often opposed to each other.
It also goes to show why phoning it in and not really being too involved in the production is a terrible idea.

[redbird]

So pardon me for being dense but ... they can record without Stevie, right? It's totally legal, yes? They just don't want to?

If they can't record without her, then yes she's really holding them hostage, but if they can, then they should just decide to do it, and Stevie's not preventing them from doing anything that she doesn't have a right to prevent (that thing being her own participation).

I'm sure it's been clarified and I've just momentarily lost the ability to understand English.

[jbrownsjr]

maybe :D. or, since we've seen FM incarnation without B, i wouldn't mind seeing the incarnation with BM, without N. but that will never happen.

YES!!!:nod:

[WatchChain]

I apologize if portions of my post have already been stated in different terms by other members, but I must weigh in.

In 2013, NO RECORD released by Stevie Nicks or anyone affiliated with Fleetwood Mac is ever going to sell millions. That's just not the way the record business works nowadays. Post internet downloading, the best selling albums only manage to push a few million. Very few people are selling 10 million units of one album anymore.

It's incomprehensible to me that someone as legendary as Stevie Nicks, in the twilight of her career, is solely worried about releasing albums that are marketed to the masses. At this point in her life, she could be seeking out amazing producers who will guide her to make the most experimental and groundbreaking music of her life. Screw the masses! They won't get it anyway. Her work with Dave Stewart was headed in the right direction. I'd like to see her continue to explore deeper uncharted territory in future projects.

EXAMPLES:

Johnny Cash, in the last years of his life, teams with heavy metal producer Rick Rubin to make "THE MAN COMES AROUND".....one of the greatest albums of his career. The Rick Rubin produced "HURT" goes on the garner critical acclaim.

With her career on life support, country bumpkin Loretta Lynn teams with Jack White (The White Stripes) to record "VAN LEAR ROSE"......The album and rock n roll single "PORTLAND, OREGON" go on to win two Grammys and open her up to a whole new audience, garnering critcal acclaim. Why, because she step outside the box and tried something new and unexpected.

Paul Simon's "GRACELAND".....an experimental masterpiece....say no more

Bruce Springsteen's 2005 offering "DEVILS AND DUST".....some of the best experimental recording of his career

Stevie Nicks, I adore you. But, please take note. You could, artistically, do so much more than running around the country playing "Dreams" and "Stand Back" for the 80 millionth time. With or without Fleetwood Mac, get back in the studio and record the most amazing work of your life. It's still in you and you have so much to say. When the record is done, go out on the road and build a new show and set list around it. The new record will move about 450,000 copies and you'll still fill arena seats.

I will undoubtedly see you on the 2013 FM TOUR, as I've done since 1980. But, quite frankly, I'm not as excited to sit through two hours of "Dreams", "Stand Back", "Fall From Grace" "Rhiannon", etc......It's been done. Set your said adrift.

[SteveMacD]

So pardon me for being dense but ... they can record without Stevie, right? It's totally legal, yes? They just don't want to?

If they can't record without her, then yes she's really holding them hostage, but if they can, then they should just decide to do it, and Stevie's not preventing them from doing anything that she doesn't have a right to prevent (that thing being her own participation).

I'm sure it's been clarified and I've just momentarily lost the ability to understand English.
They can record without her, which they've actually already done. The gray area, at least for me, is if they can release it without her as Fleetwood Mac. There was something mentioned about each era of the band having its own corporation, so I'm wondering if that's playing into it.

[michelej1]

Remember, this album wouldn't be totally devoid of Stevie. She would be singing prominently on 3 tracks. I don't know if they could release it as a Fleetwood Mac album without her or not. Does she need to sign off first? I don't know.

Michele

[RockawayBlind]

There is a lot to digest in this thread. I hate to say it, but FM is pretty much a nostalgia act at this point, and Stevie seems to want to ensure it stays that way. I don't blame her for not wanting to record with the band. Fine, but if I were the rest of the band, I'd say, "You're in or your out. We're going to do an album and tour, with or without you. But you have to sign up for both."

Stevie ceases to be an artist, in my mind, when she is essentially blackmailing her fans to love her music so she can go and record more. It doesn't work that way, Stevie. First you need the inspiration, then you need to share the product of that inspiration with your audience. And then, if it touches people, they'll love it. That's how it works.

A true recording artist does it for the love of the music, for the outlet, not for the adoration. You want adoration, go buy another dog. A true artist has something to say. Maybe Stevie doesn't anymore.

I don't begrudge her stance on not wanting to record. She could retire and be fine. Or she could stick with solo work. That's cool too.

I notice some here believe she wants to record but no with the FM. That's her prerogative. She loves Dave Stewart now. Great. How long will that last? Maybe another album. Fine. I remember when she said in an interview before Rock a Little that she wanted no guest male vocals because they would just come in because it was "cool", do their thing and leave -- as if that was a bad thing somehow, though I am not sure how. She just seems to always have to have a bone to pick.

I'm no psychoanalyst but it smells of insecurity. She knows she is barely a musician, isn't much of a poet anymore (why else has there been no book? Plenty of other poet/musicians have done it), and she must know that no matter who she works with, she'll always be the one with the least set of skills. That has to affect her.

Lindsey should just bag the FM thing. His solo career has never been better. He has never collected more accolades. Used to be he was the unnoticed one, but ever since the SYW tour, he gets a lot of attention. In some ways, better attention than what Stevie gets. That may be a problem for her.

[jkmaletic]

In the current situation, I'd much rather have more solo Stevie, too. So I'm with you there. However, like I've said, if they can get Christine back to record with them, then I'm completely down for a new Fleetwood Mac album.

I'm to the point where those are the only two scenarios I'd be really excited about. Anything else just doesn't have the same appeal.

Yes, a new FM record with Christine would be amazing. We don't need another SYW Part 2.

[KenshiMaster16]

To be on a fact given side, if Stevie's main goal is to sell albums, then a Mac album is what she should do;

SAY YOU WILL - ALBUM
Billboard 200 - #3
UK Albums - #6
Ireland - #6
New Zealand - #7
Canada - #8
Sweden - #8
Germany - #10

PEACEKEEPER
US Adult Contemporary - #10
US Adult Top 40 - #16
Billboard Hot 100 - #80

SAY YOU WILL
US Adult Contemporary - #17
US Adult Top 40 - #21


IN YOUR DREAMS
Billboard 200 - #6
UK Albums - #14
New Zealand - #35
Canada - #22
Sweden - #39

SECRET LOVE
US Adult Contemporary - #20
US Adult Top 40 - N/A
Billboard Hot 100 - N/A

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH
US Adult Contemporary - #25
US Adult Top 40 - N/A

Given that times has changed drastically since then in the industry, 'Fleetwood Mac' is more likely to get radio play than solo Stevie Nicks at this point. I hate saying that cause I adore Stevie's solo work, but she sorta has to face that fact. She should make music just for the artistic merit of making it for the hell of it like most of her generation for Mac fans and solo fans alike, but I highly doubt Stevie will ever think or act that way unfortunately.

[johnnystorms]

to BASH Stevie Nicks forum.
this is tiresome. As a Stevie fan (Mac secondarily), i am annoyed by the divide among the fans. Wait and see what will happen. If someone kicked and ridiculed you on stage, mocked your talent, and then tried to abuse you physically, hoe EAGER would you be to work again with said-person? She' touring with them . Let her enjoy her life, as she chooses to live it... SHEESH........

[SteveMacD]

to BASH Stevie Nicks forum.
this is tiresome. As a Stevie fan (Mac secondarily), i am annoyed by the divide among the fans. Wait and see what will happen.
How weird? Stevie makes comments about FM's recording future to the media, and we react. The nerve of us Fleetwood Mac fans for forgetting that Stevie has a unicorn and sh*ts rainbows.

If someone kicked and ridiculed you on stage, mocked your talent, and then tried to abuse you physically, hoe EAGER would you be to work again with said-person?
WTF are you talking about? From 1991-2002, she's the one who put him on this pedastal of being the grand interpreter of her material. At the Oakland, 1990 show, she dedicated Landslide to him and said she hoped he could find it in his heart to work with her again, someday. So she got over it (hint, hint). She built him up, didn't like where it went in 2003, and has been whining about it since.

[D.W-Suite]

If someone kicked and ridiculed you on stage, mocked your talent, and then tried to abuse you physically, hoe EAGER would you be to work again with said-person? She' touring with them . Let her enjoy her life, as she chooses to live it... SHEESH........

Ugh.

Typical Stevie fan comment. All this is in the past, and they still survived as a band. Lindsey's relationship with Stevie at this stage is better than it has been in years, maybe better than it ever has been.

[seekerj]

I think this whole thread should be blown away, deleted, destroyed, and forgotten. It is not helping. Anything.

[jbrownsjr]

No wonder Christine got the hell out of there!

[redtulip]

to BASH Stevie Nicks forum.
this is tiresome. As a Stevie fan (Mac secondarily), i am annoyed by the divide among the fans. Wait and see what will happen. If someone kicked and ridiculed you on stage, mocked your talent, and then tried to abuse you physically, hoe EAGER would you be to work again with said-person? She' touring with them . Let her enjoy her life, as she chooses to live it... SHEESH........

So it's ok to bash Lindsey though? You aren't doing anything here but making it worse.

[elle]

I think this whole thread should be blown away, deleted, destroyed, and forgotten. It is not helping. Anything.

Not sure what is this thread supposed to help with but this statement seems kinda disrespectful to numerous people who expressed their thoughts here. :shrug:

[elle]

So it's ok to bash Lindsey though? You aren't doing anything here but making it worse.

Lol. But of course it is! Just check numerous other threads and you will learn. Bashing him is called objective, fair and balanced. ;)

[TheWILDheart]

I'm no psychoanalyst but it smells of insecurity.

Nail head = HIT!

IMO, Stevie is terrified of releasing something that people won't adore and won't reach masses of people. I don't know why. She never used to be. I think this is something that has developed inside her since the rough period of the early 90's, and she's played it safe ever since.

She doesn't seem to give herself enough credit. Ok, she's not a musician or a producer, but she can still write some kick a$$ songs and her voice, though different, is still fantastic. But she continues to play it safe in every way - what she says in the press, the music, her live set...everything.

Come on Stevie, snap of it!

[louielouie2000]

I think this whole thread should be blown away, deleted, destroyed, and forgotten. It is not helping. Anything.

Since the thread has kept all the critiquing to the band thus far, it will stay open. It's only when threads hopelessly fall into personal attacks & name calling (against board members... the band itself is fair game) that we will lock them. So far all the points raised in this thread have been valid & provacative. If this thread were to be locked now, people would be (rightfully) upset about heavy handed moderation. :)

[TrueFaith77]

I think Stevie does not like working with Lindsey and the boys for prolonged periods (studio time + tour). I think she does not like Lindsey's aesthetic and does not like being in a situation where she is not in charge. That's my theory.

[KarmaContestant]

Sorry if this has been said, but Fleetwood Mac already has a world tour scheduled. We already know that Stevie doesn't really seem to love these tours. It could be that she feels an album will obligate her to tour *more* dates, or even worse, a whole separate tour after album release.

Perhaps that is the basis of her reluctance.

Frankly, the boys just need to accept her conditions, or let her go and move forward on their own.

[jbrownsjr]

I think Stevie does not like working with Lindsey and the boys for prolonged periods (studio time + tour). I think she does not like Lindsey's aesthetic and does not like being in a situation where she is not in charge. That's my theory.

This is my feeling as well. With her solo albums, she is able to get what she wants without having to deal with the same ole' bullsh*t. Stewart probably nourished and pushed her in different ways than LB.

Whether it's her bs or Lindsey's bs; she doesn't have to deal with it over long period's of time. Imagine what it's like for the other people involved having to listen to it. :distress:

[redbird]

I do think Stevie doesn't like Lindsey's current (at least how she sees it) aesthetic applied to her songs, and I think as far as working with him, it seems okay one on one but with all of the boys she feels outnumbered. A lot of "girly" women (to use her own wording from one of her songs) feel like that in male-dominated spheres, I don't have a lot of condescension for her for that to be honest. It can feel very isolating, even though she puts a tough face on for the press. It's one thing to be appreciated despite your quirks and another to be appreciated because of your quirks, and my theory is that the people who she collaborates with on her own are more of the latter than the former. Yes, she has to show up to have input, but if she decides she can live without putting input into FM, then that's moot.

And I absolutely think she's insecure since the 90's, and feels more comfortable braving her insecurities when only her own artistic credentials rest on it than when the whole band's do. She does not want to be the weakest link in Fleetwood Mac, ever since the early days when she was singled out as the least worthwhile member.

Personally I don't see what's particularly diva-ish about her behavior, since there's nothing that's come out that would suggest she would prevent the other Mac members from putting out a new album with minimal input from her. They're the ones who want more of her, but we don't know that she's keeping them from proceeding without her. I do think it's weird to just want to tour with the band and not really create, but honestly if the rest of the band is fine with it, I don't see how it can offend me if it doesn't offend them, I don't really see on whose behalf I'm being offended. Especially if she is the main draw on a tour; if that's the case then all of them get richer because of her presence. And if that's an issue for all of them, she's certainly not the only one who cares about money.

[Fever Dance]

to BASH Stevie Nicks forum.
this is tiresome. As a Stevie fan (Mac secondarily), i am annoyed by the divide among the fans. SHEESH........


I totally agree with you Johnny.

I LOVE FM. First and foremost. I love all of the members and I used to think their best work is the five ( I'm still hoping Chris comes back after all of the recent events, show in Maui etc ) of them together. Unfortunately that has changed. I personally love what Butch Vig did with "You Can't Touch This" and I think it comes closer to the "Stevie" FM sound and feel than anything Lindsey has done recently. And I say this with nothing but pure love and admiration for Lindsey but Butch really nailed it. You can't blame her for wanting to promote it and Sound City right now. Plus she looks happier and more energetic on stage with Grohl and those Foos :) than she does with FM, I hate to say it cause it breaks my heart but its true. But it doesn't make her a bad person or heaven forbid, not a true artist!

And as far as In Your Dreams goes, can you really blame her for extending that tour, she did finally have a new body of work to be proud of. So to those of you that are questioning her artistic integrity, is that really justified? :shrug: She had 6 new songs in that setlist, remember?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes I want another full FM album with Stevie but if she doesn't want to do it, it's her choice. Like someone else said, why can't the guys ( and maybe Chris! ) keep recording without her if they want a full on album?

I do agree that her basing a decision on whether or not to do a new album on the crowd's reaction to the 3 new songs is really a bad one :sorry: As soon as the crowd hears it's a new song, it will be potty break time. I remember it well at the SYW shows unfortunately.

[HejiraNYC]

I personally love what Butch Vig did with "You Can't Touch This" and I think it comes closer to the "Stevie" FM sound and feel than anything Lindsey has done recently.

http://www.sixprizes.com/wp-content/uploads/stop-hammer-time.jpg

[Fever Dance]

http://www.sixprizes.com/wp-content/uploads/stop-hammer-time.jpg

:xoxo:

Its not meant to disrespect Lindsey at all! I love him as much as Stevie.
I just personally think "You Can't Touch This" has that 70's Stevie vibe to it. I hear parts of GDW in it, Rhiannon etc. I didn't hear that in any SYW songs... To be fair, I didn't hear anything like it on In Your Dreams either.

[shackin'up]

the song is called " You can't fix this". I like what Vig did to it too. They deliberately copied the sound of the early seventies, to capture some of the legacy of the soundboard in audio, but then in 2012. And Lindsey will never Go back to that sound because It's 2013.We'll have to wait until the three songs come out to know what he did to Fleetwood Mac.
Lindsey has not done anything to her songs recently. That happened all more than 10 years ago. The only thing he did was the sparse instrumentation on Soldiers' Angel.

And she couldn't stop bragging about that. "He saved my song".

[shackin'up]

http://www.sixprizes.com/wp-content/uploads/stop-hammer-time.jpg
Hahaha!:cool:

[vivfox]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes I want another full FM album with Stevie but if she doesn't want to do it, it's her choice. Like someone else said, why can't the guys ( and maybe Chris! ) keep recording without her if they want a full on album?


No record company is going to want a FM album if Stevie is not on it. The public won't give a damn either except for maybe 1,000 fans of Lindsey Buckingham.

[vivfox]

to BASH Stevie Nicks forum.this is tiresome.
I think everyone here knows I love Stevie but I don't feel she is being bashed. We are just expressing opinions. Please don't be too sensitive.

[Jondalar]

I think everyone here knows I love Stevie but I don't feel she is being bashed. We are just expressing opinions. Please don't be too sensitive.

Yeah, we have invested a ton of money into this hippy chick, we have our opinions

[RockawayBlind]

Plus she looks happier and more energetic on stage with Grohl and those Foos :) than she does with FM, I hate to say it cause it breaks my heart but its true. But it doesn't make her a bad person or heaven forbid, not a true artist!

Since I am the one who suggested she is not a true artist anymore, I suspect this is directed at me. But it's a straw man argument. I said she is not a true artist because a true artist doesn't blackmail his/her audience. Imagine if Picasso or Dali or Beethoven had said, "Well, if you don't LOVE this painting/symphony, that's it, no more for you! It's not enough to just like or enjoy it."


That the words even came out of her mouth says something about her that is very unpleasant. Like it or not, she makes a joke of herself by making such comments. If my reaction to that is "Stevie bashing," so be it. But she's a grown woman, and it's high time she learned how to edit herself.

My comment had nothing to do with whom else she chooses to make music because, frankly, I dont' care.

[MikeInNV]

Since I am the one who suggested she is not a true artist anymore, I suspect this is directed at me. But it's a straw man argument. I said she is not a true artist because a true artist doesn't blackmail his/her audience. Imagine if Picasso or Dali or Beethoven had said, "Well, if you don't LOVE this painting/symphony, that's it, no more for you! It's not enough to just like or enjoy it."


That the words even came out of her mouth says something about her that is very unpleasant. Like it or not, she makes a joke of herself by making such comments. If my reaction to that is "Stevie bashing," so be it. But she's a grown woman, and it's high time she learned how to edit herself.

My comment had nothing to do with whom else she chooses to make music because, frankly, I dont' care.

I don't know how many people would take that as blackmailing. I certainly didn't. Stevie loves her fans, and I'm sure she never thought of her comments as blackmail. She has always said she loves that her music can touch people and make a difference in their lives, and I'm sure she is scared by the thought of people becoming apathetic to her art. If nobody cares about what you do, it's not very motivating to keep doing it. I think that's what she meant. It's true for a regular Joe like me in my line of work; I'm sure it's true 10 times over if you're Stevie Nicks.

The bottom line in all of this is that everybody has their mind made up about Stevie, so no matter what she says or does, people will interpret it in a way that reinforces their own perceptions (reminds me a lot of politics actually). Does she have fans who think she only farts rainbows? Yes. But there's another contingent on the opposite side ready to make the worst of everything.

[RockawayBlind]

She has always said she loves that her music can touch people and make a difference in their lives, and I'm sure she is scared by the thought of people becoming apathetic to her art. If nobody cares about what you do, it's not very motivating to keep doing it. I think that's what she meant.

I can understand that, but in my opinion a true artist doesn't do art for the reaction. A shock jock, maybe. But true art is done for its own sake.

[WildHearted]

I can understand that, but in my opinion a true artist doesn't do art for the reaction. A shock jock, maybe. But true art is done for its own sake.

She didn't say she would stop making music, just that if no one really loved what they were doing, they would just make music for themselves then.

[RockawayBlind]

She didn't say she would stop making music, just that if no one really loved what they were doing, they would just make music for themselves then.

Fundamentally, I don't have a problem with that. I take issue with what it means to make music for oneself. Whether you are doing it for the band or as a solo project, you should first do it for yourself. The result should be better art.

[WildHearted]

Fundamentally, I don't have a problem with that. I take issue with what it means to make music for oneself. Whether you are doing it for the band or as a solo project, you should first do it for yourself. The result should be better art.

I think she meant more along the lines of that she would just keep her music to herself.

Which still seems a bit petty, but I understand that it's not easy to put out a record (or at least, it's not easy for Fleetwood Mac, apparently) so it might not be worth it to put something out if they don't feel like it's going to be appreciated.

By they I mean Stevie b/c although she referred to it as a 'we' thing, I don't know this is something they would all agree on.

[Christopher]

Like it or not, she makes a joke of herself by making such comments. If my reaction to that is "Stevie bashing," so be it. But she's a grown woman, and it's high time she learned how to edit herself.

Actually, "like it or not", Stevie (well beyond a grown woman) is precisely where I would expect her to be at this point -- A living legend (in her own right) who does not have to be coerced into making an album if she does not feel it, or even just because (she has more than earned that right.) Stevie is still creative as "In Your Dreams" and more recently "You Can't Fix This" have demonstrated. I don't think anyone of any credible reason really disputes that, just that BOTH, Stevie & Lindsey, have come off creative solo highs, that it would be a shame not to actualize what might be at this junction. :cool:

Seems like some around here just cannot fathom that Stevie holds the keys to another FM full-length recording. There is life beyond another FM record. Lindsey will go on, Stevie will go on, as they always have.

[michelej1]

I don't know how many people would take that as blackmailing.

I don't take it as blackmailing, but I do take it as saying, "if this fails, it will be your fault." I read and posted a summary from Ultimate Classic Rock where the writer (who is probably more objective than we are) took it the same way and said that her comments mean we better download the new songs on itunes, if we want more music and show enthusiasm for the songs in concert, rather than making a beer run. In that statement, Stevie put the onus on fans and some fans want to fling it right back at her.

Now, since I think Stevie is just making up a bunch of excuses for why she doesn't want to record, I don't take her comments seriously. But since she actually did utter them, I see why people are reacting the way they are, whether or not I think she really means it.

That's the problem: she's not telling the truth and I think she'd actually come off better if she were judged on the truth rather than on the ridiculous statements she makes to cover it up.

If she said a variation on what she said to the press in 2003, for example:

"Lindsey left the band in 1987 and I haven't worked with him since. I learned how to work without him really well. As I told him, 'I don't need you to make my music come true, anymore.' I've been growing in new directions and, although I love him, in so many ways, doing a full album with him is like going backwards for me. I respect his talent immensely, that's why I knew I had to have him do Soldier's Angel with me, because I know no one else could translate the ominous, brutal message I heard in my head onto disc the way he could. But for a full album, I think we've moved too far apart to do our best work together any longer. I'd rather we just toured and had fun without the stress of battling to record 12 new Fleetwood Mac songs."

I think that may not be 100% accurate, but it is closer to the truth and people could judge her on that statement. But she doesn't say that. She says other, less true, things and I think they spark resentment and I think people are reasonable to react accordingly.

Michele

[David]

So pardon me for being dense but ... they can record without Stevie, right?Well, they usually do—and then they airbrush her in on the album cover.

If they can't record without her, then yes she's really holding them hostage, but if they can, then they should just decide to do it, and Stevie's not preventing them from doing anything that she doesn't have a right to prevent (that thing being her own participation).I think Lindsey really wants to record with her. He seems to want to pick up his musical partnership with her from 40 years ago and carry it forward—or throw it against a wall to see what sticks. He's always talking about how they both, together, have a "story to finish." I think he plans on shackling her ankles to the recording console in his den, setting up a couple of mics, and occasionally feeding her.

Fleetwood Mac recording was never about "Who wants to be here?" It was always about "Just show up and then grouse to the press."

[Fever Dance]

the song is called " You can't fix this". I like what Vig did to it too. They deliberately copied the sound of the early seventies, to capture some of the legacy of the soundboard in audio, but then in 2012. And Lindsey will never Go back to that sound because It's 2013.We'll have to wait until the three songs come out to know what he did to Fleetwood Mac.
Lindsey has not done anything to her songs recently. That happened all more than 10 years ago. The only thing he did was the sparse instrumentation on Soldiers' Angel.

And she couldn't stop bragging about that. "He saved my song".

I think what Butch did is relevant today as well. It's a matter of personal taste. Just like your interpretation of what it means to be an artist. You know, we can argue this back and forth. Again, I'm a massive Lindsey fan. I'm not saying he isn't talented as **** cause he is.

I'm just saying that for me, personally, I've gotten past the fantasy that Stevie's best work is going to be with FM. Obviously she isn't happy recording with them and I don't think Lindsey is her best producer.

And yeah, this morning my first post had a glaring typo, the song I was referring to of course was YOU CAN'T FIX THIS.. oopsy! I should know cause I've listened to the song enough.. It's why I shouldn't type anything pre-coffee.

[jbrownsjr]

Well, they usually do—and then they airbrush her in on the album cover.

I think Lindsey really wants to record with her. He seems to want to pick up his musical partnership with her from 40 years ago and carry it forward—or throw it against a wall to see what sticks. He's always talking about how they both, together, have a "story to finish." I think he plans on shackling her ankles to the recording console in his den, setting up a couple of mics, and occasionally feeding her.

Fleetwood Mac recording was never about "Who wants to be here?" It was always about "Just show up and then grouse to the press."

He wants them to be the Gypsies, that they was. :D

[Johnny Stew]

If she said a variation on what she said to the press in 2003, for example:

"Lindsey left the band in 1987 and I haven't worked with him since. I learned how to work without him really well. As I told him, 'I don't need you to make my music come true, anymore.' I've been growing in new directions and, although I love him, in so many ways, doing a full album with him is like going backwards for me. I respect his talent immensely, that's why I knew I had to have him do Soldier's Angel with me, because I know no one else could translate the ominous, brutal message I heard in my head onto disc the way he could. But for a full album, I think we've moved too far apart to do our best work together any longer. I'd rather we just toured and had fun without the stress of battling to record 12 new Fleetwood Mac songs."

I think that may not be 100% accurate, but it is closer to the truth and people could judge her on that statement. But she doesn't say that. She says other, less true, things and I think they spark resentment and I think people are reasonable to react accordingly.

I wonder if she was asked (by management? by the band?) not to say that during the current press. I can't imagine it would help sell the new songs.

[Johnny Stew]

The bottom line in all of this is that everybody has their mind made up about Stevie, so no matter what she says or does, people will interpret it in a way that reinforces their own perceptions (reminds me a lot of politics actually). Does she have fans who think she only farts rainbows? Yes. But there's another contingent on the opposite side ready to make the worst of everything.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Give this man a prize. :)

[michelej1]

I wonder if she was asked (by management? by the band?) not to say that during the current press. I can't imagine it would help sell the new songs.

I would doubt it, since it's in keeping with the type of things Stevie has said in the past. That's why I linked it to her former comments about the fans stealing music from her, because she has said similar things in the past, when there was no new music about to be released.

Michele

[michelej1]

And yeah, this morning my first post had a glaring typo, the song I was referring to of course was YOU CAN'T FIX THIS.. oopsy! I should know cause I've listened to the song enough.. It's why I shouldn't type anything pre-coffee.

Well, it was so hilarious that you said it, because there was a picture of MC Hammer in the thread.

Michele

[sparky]

"Lindsey left the band in 1987 and I haven't worked with him since. I learned how to work without him really well. As I told him, 'I don't need you to make my music come true, anymore.' I've been growing in new directions and, although I love him, in so many ways, doing a full album with him is like going backwards for me. I respect his talent immensely, that's why I knew I had to have him do Soldier's Angel with me, because I know no one else could translate the ominous, brutal message I heard in my head onto disc the way he could. But for a full album, I think we've moved too far apart to do our best work together any longer. I'd rather we just toured and had fun without the stress of battling to record 12 new Fleetwood Mac songs."

^
THIS.

I think this has a ring of truth. And for my money's worth, it is utterly and completely true. The Stevie SYW songs were subpar production wise. I don't think they worked at all. Any of them. I still can't shake that hideous Casio keyboard in Running Through The Garden. I thought it was a practical joke on first listen. So much of his production of her songs was a bungled modernization attempt, or a misguided throwback (why try and make SYW a modern version of Think About Me?). The only one I liked in terms of production was Everybody Finds Out and that belonged on a mix cd that would go straight to gay nightclubs. No pun intended. It stuck out like a sore gay thumb on a FM record.

As far as her pronouncement about people loving the new FM songs or no album is gonna happen, it makes sense. The enormous overhead of that clown show going into a studio is a money loser if people won't buy millions of copies. No way in hell will a new FM record sell millions of copies. Under any circumstance. And let's face it, FM is a business entity. It is clearly torturous for LB and SN to record music together, so why sacrifice a miserable year to do that when it won't even break even and most everyone pees and gets beer during the new songs? I don't blame them. Go out and pull your 600-750k guarantee a night. For the record, folks, I have done my pee and get a cocktail run during Rhiannon and Landslide for decades now, thank you very much. But never, ever, ever during GDW.

I think at this point, as far as SN is concerned, she would rather be the captain of her own ship when it comes to recording. She pulls legend rank on Stewart and Grohl, and almost anyone else she works with. I am sure the deference is intoxicating. Dave Grohl moons at her like a lovestruck teenager in those live videos. And who wouldn't? Oh. That would be Lindsey.

Why record a money losing record with FM when she can record with these people who worship her, and she can maintain creative control? What would you choose? The psychodrama of spending 8-10 months fighting with your now 35 years gone ex? Or spending the "best year of your life" with Dave Stewart? Please. You grab the tour money. You play the Daytime Drama Cheese moments with FM. (God knows here on the Ledge there is proof of the obsession with that moth eaten coke infused Fromeo and Shawliet story. Many fangirls with still viable eggs practically ovulate when those two so much as hold hands). So you dust off the Shakespeare and give the droves what they want. And then go do your own thing where you call all the shots.

For the record, I think IYD lost money too. Simple math. But at least it was her ship and she didn't suffer emotionally in the process.

[sparky]

Well, they usually do—and then they airbrush her in on the album cover.


Genius. As usual.

[bombaysaffires]

^
As far as her pronouncement about people loving the new FM songs or no album is gonna happen, it makes sense. The enormous overhead of that clown show going into a studio is a money loser if people won't buy millions of copies. No way in hell will a new FM record sell millions of copies. Under any circumstance. And let's face it, FM is a business entity. It is clearly torturous for LB and SN to record music together, so why sacrifice a miserable year to do that when it won't even break even and most everyone pees and gets beer during the new songs? I don't blame them. Go out and pull your 600-750k guarantee a night.

I think at this point, as far as SN is concerned, she would rather be the captain of her own ship when it comes to recording. She pulls legend rank on Stewart and Grohl, and almost anyone else she works with. I am sure the deference is intoxicating. Dave Grohl moons at her like a lovestruck teenager in those live videos. And who wouldn't? Oh. That would be Lindsey.

Why record a money losing record with FM when she can record with these people who worship her, and she can maintain creative control? What would you choose? The psychodrama of spending 8-10 months fighting with your now 35 years gone ex? Or spending the "best year of your life" with Dave Stewart? Please. You grab the tour money. You play the Daytime Drama Cheese moments with FM. (God knows here on the Ledge there is proof of the obsession with that moth eaten coke infused Fromeo and Shawliet story. Many fangirls with still viable eggs practically ovulate when those two so much as hold hands). So you dust off the Shakespeare and give the droves what they want. And then go do your own thing where you call all the shots.

For the record, I think IYD lost money too. Simple math. But at least it was her ship and she didn't suffer emotionally in the process.


Love this.:thumbsup:

[SteveMacD]

Seems like some around here just cannot fathom that Stevie holds the keys to another FM full-length recording.
Hey, if she wants out...GO. Let the band move on. I'd rather have SN, but the likes of Cyndi Lauper, who have a large, overlapping fan base and similar vocal and stage vibes, could easily take over, and keep it sounding like FM should be on the table. No, not Bekka, who I love, but has no name recognition. Big name artists who could hold their own.

[johnnystorms]

Hey, if she wants out...GO. Let the band move on. I'd rather have SN, but the likes of Cyndi Lauper, who have a large, overlapping fan base and similar vocal and stage vibes, could easily take over, and keep it sounding like FM should be on the table. No, not Bekka, who I love, but has no name recognition. Big name artists who could hold their own.

i HOPE the Cyndi Lauper suggestion was a joke.

[mitzo]

Sparky wrote

The Stevie SYW songs were subpar production wise. I don't think they worked at all. Any of them. I still can't shake that hideous Casio keyboard in Running Through The Garden. I thought it was a practical joke on first listen. So much of his production of her songs was a bungled modernization attempt, or a misguided throwback (why try and make SYW a modern version of Think About Me?). The only one I liked in terms of production was Everybody Finds Out and that belonged on a mix cd that would go straight to gay nightclubs. No pun intended. It stuck out like a sore gay thumb on a FM record.

A lot of us thought the SYW songs were her best in decades, thanks massively to Lindsey's touch. Amazing how tastes differ, but her SYW work ended up infinitely better than TISL.

In any case, it is hard to imagine, all quibbles about production aside, how showing up to sing into a mike for some songs in a studio with FM is so arduous for Stevie. She has a bigger chance at a hit that way than solo.

Is it that she has little say in how the songs are produced? But spending endless months on the road with the guys is less stressful?

[TheWILDheart]

A lot of us thought the SYW songs were her best in decades, thanks massively to Lindsey's touch. Amazing how tastes differ, but her SYW work ended up infinitely better than TISL.


I both agree and disagree MASSIVELY with this.

Stevie's songs on SYW, I thought, were fantastic and some of the best she's ever written - "Destiny Rules", "Thrown Down", "Illume" and "Everybody Finds Out" were classic Stevie, but sounded modern and fresh.

However, infinitely better than TISL? I couldn't disagree more. TISL, for me, has always been perfection of the highest order.

Stevie's post-2000 output has been far more consistent and solid than anything she did between 1984 and 1996, reminisent of her 1974 - 1983 years.

[mitzo]

I both agree and disagree MASSIVELY with this.

Stevie's songs on SYW, I thought, were fantastic and some of the best she's ever written - "Destiny Rules", "Thrown Down", "Illume" and "Everybody Finds Out" were classic Stevie, but sounded modern and fresh.

However, infinitely better than TISL? I couldn't disagree more. TISL, for me, has always been perfection of the highest order.

Stevie's post-2000 output has been far more consistent and solid than anything she did between 1984 and 1996, reminisent of her 1974 - 1983 years.

I know this is sidetracking the thread a bit, but we seem to often go down this path about solo vs Fm Stevie quality. I firmly feel that the big difference between TISL and SYW is consistency of quality. TISL to me has several stellar moments surrounded by wastelands of yuckiness, whereas on SYW she is consistently strong.

My opinion is that even though Lindsey drives her nuts, he is able to build miracles out of her material that other producers do not - he draws out strong vocal performances and capitalizes on the hooks and atmosphere of her poetry and melodies in ways others have not. I think solo, some of the real weaknesses of her songs and vocal stylings are allowed to hang out in your face, whereas with FM the strengths of the songs and vocals are highlighted.

Sorry to sidetrack. But this opinion is a basis of the sorrow and frustration many of us feel when we hear Stevie being negative about recording with FM - we fear that we will never get the great songs and performances anymore, just Dave Stewart co-written pop, or a dog's breakfast of mediocrity with other producers.

There are only a few years left to craft another "Sara" or "Gypsy" or "Seven Wonders" or "Silver Springs" or "Thrown Down."

[Ulpian]

I know this is sidetracking the thread a bit, but we seem to often go down this path about solo vs Fm Stevie quality. I firmly feel that the big difference between TISL and SYW is consistency of quality. TISL to me has several stellar moments surrounded by wastelands of yuckiness, whereas on SYW she is consistently strong.

My opinion is that even though Lindsey drives her nuts, he is able to build miracles out of her material that other producers do not - he draws out strong vocal performances and capitalizes on the hooks and atmosphere of her poetry and melodies in ways others have not. I think solo, some of the real weaknesses of her songs and vocal stylings are allowed to hang out in your face, whereas with FM the strengths of the songs and vocals are highlighted.

Sorry to sidetrack. But this opinion is a basis of the sorrow and frustration many of us feel when we hear Stevie being negative about recording with FM - we fear that we will never get the great songs and performances anymore, just Dave Stewart co-written pop, or a dog's breakfast of mediocrity with other producers.

There are only a few years left to craft another "Sara" or "Gypsy" or "Seven Wonders" or "Silver Springs" or "Thrown Down."

^ YES.

I liked several tracks from TISL very much, but a fair few of the tracks were dull, and -- perhaps controversially -- I feel the same about IYD. Much as I thought SYW was bloated, the Stevie material was never dull, save for 'Silver Girl'. Lindsey, principally, as well as Mick, John and Christine, can bring out something almost ineffable in Stevie's songs which I think noone else can. Fond as I am of some of her solo work that is why, for me, it will never hold a candle to her work with Fleetwood Mac.

[KenshiMaster16]

I both agree and disagree MASSIVELY with this.

Stevie's songs on SYW, I thought, were fantastic and some of the best she's ever written - "Destiny Rules", "Thrown Down", "Illume" and "Everybody Finds Out" were classic Stevie, but sounded modern and fresh.

However, infinitely better than TISL? I couldn't disagree more. TISL, for me, has always been perfection of the highest order.

Stevie's post-2000 output has been far more consistent and solid than anything she did between 1984 and 1996, reminisent of her 1974 - 1983 years.

I agree with this. Songs like Destiny Rules, Thrown Down, Everybody Finds Out and Running Through The Garden are the stand outs for me. But then we got a 'meh' version of Smile At You and Silver Girl, which I think I've only listening to in full once when the album first came out and never again.

If they were to do a Mac album, she needs a perfect blend of those four, some Trouble In Shangri-La and some In Your Dreams. It'd really help, I think, if Lindsey stepped aside and let Dave come in to produce BUT at this stage of the game, I really don't think it matters as we all KNOW (despite their differences) that Lindsey can have the Midas touch with Stevie songs in certain circumstances.

[jbrownsjr]

"Lindsey left the band in 1987 and I haven't worked with him since. I learned how to work without him really well. As I told him, 'I don't need you to make my music come true, anymore.' I've been growing in new directions and, although I love him, in so many ways, doing a full album with him is like going backwards for me. I respect his talent immensely, that's why I knew I had to have him do Soldier's Angel with me, because I know no one else could translate the ominous, brutal message I heard in my head onto disc the way he could. But for a full album, I think we've moved too far apart to do our best work together any longer. I'd rather we just toured and had fun without the stress of battling to record 12 new Fleetwood Mac songs."

^
THIS.

I think this has a ring of truth. And for my money's worth, it is utterly and completely true. The Stevie SYW songs were subpar production wise. I don't think they worked at all. Any of them. I still can't shake that hideous Casio keyboard in Running Through The Garden. I thought it was a practical joke on first listen. So much of his production of her songs was a bungled modernization attempt, or a misguided throwback (why try and make SYW a modern version of Think About Me?). The only one I liked in terms of production was Everybody Finds Out and that belonged on a mix cd that would go straight to gay nightclubs. No pun intended. It stuck out like a sore gay thumb on a FM record.

As far as her pronouncement about people loving the new FM songs or no album is gonna happen, it makes sense. The enormous overhead of that clown show going into a studio is a money loser if people won't buy millions of copies. No way in hell will a new FM record sell millions of copies. Under any circumstance. And let's face it, FM is a business entity. It is clearly torturous for LB and SN to record music together, so why sacrifice a miserable year to do that when it won't even break even and most everyone pees and gets beer during the new songs? I don't blame them. Go out and pull your 600-750k guarantee a night. For the record, folks, I have done my pee and get a cocktail run during Rhiannon and Landslide for decades now, thank you very much. But never, ever, ever during GDW.

I think at this point, as far as SN is concerned, she would rather be the captain of her own ship when it comes to recording. She pulls legend rank on Stewart and Grohl, and almost anyone else she works with. I am sure the deference is intoxicating. Dave Grohl moons at her like a lovestruck teenager in those live videos. And who wouldn't? Oh. That would be Lindsey.

Why record a money losing record with FM when she can record with these people who worship her, and she can maintain creative control? What would you choose? The psychodrama of spending 8-10 months fighting with your now 35 years gone ex? Or spending the "best year of your life" with Dave Stewart? Please. You grab the tour money. You play the Daytime Drama Cheese moments with FM. (God knows here on the Ledge there is proof of the obsession with that moth eaten coke infused Fromeo and Shawliet story. Many fangirls with still viable eggs practically ovulate when those two so much as hold hands). So you dust off the Shakespeare and give the droves what they want. And then go do your own thing where you call all the shots.

For the record, I think IYD lost money too. Simple math. But at least it was her ship and she didn't suffer emotionally in the process.

God I have missed you. :xoxo:

[vivfox]

Go out and pull your 600-750k guarantee a night. For the record, folks, I have done my pee and get a cocktail run during Rhiannon and Landslide for decades now, thank you very much. But never, ever, ever during GDW.

Dave Grohl moons at her like a lovestruck teenager in those live videos. And who wouldn't? Oh. That would be Lindsey.


Based on the ticket prices I'd guess their nightly guarantee more like 1.5m-2m per show.

GDW is worth watching because it is done slightly differently every time. Like you, for me it is the one old song I hope they never drop. All the rest of them I've heard wayyyyy too many times.

[vivfox]

There are only a few years left to craft another "Sara" or "Gypsy" or "Seven Wonders" or "Silver Springs" or "Thrown Down."


Sara=classic
Gypsy=classic
7W=classic
Silver Springs=classic

Thrown Down=fail(as in let me try and write a song that sounds exactly like Dreams with new words that should garnish me another it)yawn

[KarmaContestant]

^
As far as her pronouncement about people loving the new FM songs or no album is gonna happen, it makes sense. The enormous overhead of that clown show going into a studio is a money loser if people won't buy millions of copies. No way in hell will a new FM record sell millions of copies. Under any circumstance. And let's face it, FM is a business entity. It is clearly torturous for LB and SN to record music together, so why sacrifice a miserable year to do that when it won't even break even and most everyone pees and gets beer during the new songs?

I agree (sort of) but just wanted to point out that Lindsey has a home studio they could use. Little to no overhead. No huge studio bills. The guy probably has all the fancy equipment, too.

If Fleetwood Mac recorded like they meant it, instead of trying SO HARD to manufacture commercial hits for Warner, they could go in and walk out with an album 8 weeks later, and it would likely be amazing and real - and even better - playable on stage without the huge entourage.

Fleetwood Mac doesn't *need* to spend a year making an album. They don't need to spend 5 million dollars to record an album. It doesn't have to be some smoky, spiritual experience with cuddle time and long drawn out discussions about pronouns. They only have to *want* to record an album quickly and efficiently, and unfortunately I don't see it happening.

[RockawayBlind]

Undeniably, Stevie is a living legend. Unfortunately, that is the case more in her mind that in the real world. There are plenty of artists who are living legends and still manage to be humble. That is not the case with her. The fact that there is a perception that she can be happy recording only with people who worship her supports my belief she thinks way too highly of herself.

Look, I'm not trying to bash Stevie. She once was an amazing rocker who could write a damn good song. But there isn't enough quality output over the years from her to warrant the adulation she gets, in my opinion. None of her subsequent solo work has lived up to Bella Donna or some of her best FM contributions.

I don't begrudge her not wanting to record with FM. In fact, I am quite OK with it. I just wish she would be honest about what it is that bugs her. As Michele1 said, she doesn't want to go in the studio with those guys, and that's her prerogative, as far as I am concerned. She wants to make another IYD? Go for it. I actually like the album. But don't fool yourselves. She'll make one more record with Dave Stewart and then start finding reasons why she doesn't want to work with him anymore. It seems to be a pattern.

I do agree that Lindsey and Mick shouldn't pressure her to record. Really, what's the point? In the end, if she doesn't really want to do it, the work will be mediocre. Someone seemed to blame the subpar production on her SYW songs on Lindsey, yet we all saw how stubborn she was in the documentary about how she wanted her songs to sound. I think Lindsey got his way with some, but she did with others. So we get Michael Bolton-type production values with things like Silver Girl and Running through the Garden next to edgier stuff like Smile at You. I don't blame Lindsey for that. I blame the rotten dynamic they have when recording together. And that being the case, why even bother? Each should just go do what he/she wants.

But don't put it on the fans. Don't tell the fans they have to love the songs so you can go record more. That is probably the stupidest thing she has said... and there are so many instances to choose from.

[fairydust75]

Undeniably, Stevie is a living legend. Unfortunately, that is the case more in her mind that in the real world. There are plenty of artists who are living legends and still manage to be humble. That is not the case with her. The fact that there is a perception that she can be happy recording only with people who worship her supports my belief she thinks way too highly of herself.

Look, I'm not trying to bash Stevie. She once was an amazing rocker who could write a damn good song. But there isn't enough quality output over the years from her to warrant the adulation she gets, in my opinion. None of her subsequent solo work has lived up to Bella Donna or some of her best FM contributions.

I don't begrudge her not wanting to record with FM. MIn fact, I am quite OK with it. I just wish she would be honest about what it is that bugs her. As Michele1 said, she doesn't want to go in the studio with those guys, and that's her prerogative, as far as I am concerned. She wants to make another IYD? Go for it. I actually like the album. But don't fool yourselves. She'll make one more record with Dave Stewart and then start finding reasons why she doesn't want to work with him anymore. It seems to be a pattern.

I do agree that Lindsey and Mick shouldn't pressure her to record. Really, what's the point? In the end, if she doesn't really want to do it, the work will be mediocre. Someone seemed to blame the subpar production on her SYW songs on Lindsey, yet we all saw how stubborn she was in the documentary about how she wanted her songs to sound. I think Lindsey got his way with some, but she did with others. So we get Michael Bolton-type production values with things like Silver Girl and Running through the Garden next to edgier stuff like Smile at You. I don't blame Lindsey for that. I blame the rotten dynamic they have when recording together. And that being the case, why even bother? Each should just go do what he/she wants.

But don't put it on the fans. Don't tell the fans they have to love the songs so you can go record more. That is probably the stupidest thing she has said... and there are so many instances to choose from.

Ok, If your not trying to bash her, then your doing a lousy job at it, lol. I think alot of current artist, think she's worthy of the admiration and want to work with her because she inspired them. Stevie has lost her mother and her young godson in a short period of time. She has been forced to face her mortality, being 65. She knows she only has a few short years left. Another chance at another "best year of her life" vs a lengthy world tour for the major bucks vs recorded a new FM album. She is just not sure what is best for her. Stevie is just too honest with her thoughts. Her doubt and fears are perfecrly normal. Maybe she should just keep it to herself, so everybody wont freak out. Stevie is just being Stevie, she is just fearful of devoting the time that it has taken in the past for the Mac to record and then the album flops. She is not going to be the one to End Fleetwood Mac...no matter what. Lets face it, there will not be a major world tour without her. Maybe something smaller with just the guys. Stevie is the key for what Lindsey and Mick want, whatever their true motive is $ for Mick, closure/reconnection of Buckingham Nicks for Lindsey. We all need to just relax and just let the chips fall where they may. Hopefully it will all work out...now that they are "finally grown up"...lol.