Making Rumours by Ken Caillat

[cliffdweller]

How is her book any worse than Stevie's journal entries/freeform prose which have been posted on the Nicksfix? :shrug:

I love Stevie to death, but every~ single~ incomplete~ sentence~ ending~ with~ these~ things~ drives~ me~ bonkers~. It's~ like~ something~ a~ 9~ year~ old~ girl~ would~ do~.

True, however, journal entries and free-form prose are a lot different than book writing. I seriously doubt Stevie would write a book with all that sh*t in it. She's not so crazy as to write a book that reads like her journal entries would she? Okay, don't answer that question.

[David]

Stevie may write a book one day, but it's not going to be a biography. It would only be the sort of book filled with ellipses, tildes, and much rambling and incoherence. The idea that she -- Stevie Nicks -- would ever be inclined or able to write a sustained narrative, of herself or anyone she knows, is absolutely ludicrous. And she would never allow a "ghost" to write such a thing in her name.

The only book you'll ever see her name on would be something like "Dreams, Stories, and Poems" or "My Life and Dreams in Art" or something like that. Look elsewhere for a biography of Stevie Nicks or the band.

[dnightshade]

Stevie may write a book one day, but it's not going to be a biography. It would only be the sort of book filled with ellipses, tildes, and much rambling and incoherence. The idea that she -- Stevie Nicks -- would ever be inclined or able to write a sustained narrative, of herself or anyone she knows, is absolutely ludicrous. And she would never allow a "ghost" to write such a thing in her name.
The only book you'll ever see her name on would be something like "Dreams, Stories, and Poems" or "My Life and Dreams in Art" or something like that. Look elsewhere for a biography of Stevie Nicks or the band.

And you're sure of this? Such certainty and conviction must come from somewhere. This lack of faith is discouraging.

[michelej1]

True, however, journal entries and free-form prose are a lot different than book writing. I seriously doubt Stevie would write a book with all that sh*t in it. She's not so crazy as to write a book that reads like her journal entries would she? Okay, don't answer that question.

Whether she would or not, her editors wouldn't. Random House or whomever, might include a picture of one of her handwritten goodies as a sample, but they aren't putting out a whole book of that. Even without a ghostwriter, she will be heavily edited.

Michele

[michelej1]

We only heard about LB's violence after he quit FM, not before. All the violent acts insiders confess are events that took place before 1987. So are we supposed to believe he's cured from therapy, or we're not hearing about any recent violence because it's business as usual again? Everybody's protecting the francise.:confused:

I don't really buy the argument that they were protecting the franchise back then because 35 years ago I don't think they would have suspected that the revelation of such information would endanger the band or its reputation. The public had different sensibilities and reactions back then.

Michele

[WildHearted]

True, however, journal entries and free-form prose are a lot different than book writing. I seriously doubt Stevie would write a book with all that sh*t in it. She's not so crazy as to write a book that reads like her journal entries would she? Okay, don't answer that question.

This is true. She's able to write coherently, like when she wrote the excerpt about Tom Petty in that 100 Greatest Artists Rolling Stone (even if her contribution ended up, somehow, really being more about herself :lol:).

If you guys looked at my journal.... sometimes I can't even figure out what I was trying to say :lol:

With that said, that DOES bring into question the use of the journals she's been keeping for the past 40 years or however long. In theory they would be a great resource for a biography. But if they're as ambiguous as some of the stuff we have seen, then I can't imagine them being very reliable, unless Stevie can somehow remember exactly which event she was alluding to.

Stevie herself has even said that they're written in a way so that she would know what she was talking about but no one else would. That's all good and well until it's 40 years later and then all you're left with is 500 pages of personal pronouns, shadows, blankets, dreams, visions, angels, memories, earthquakes, and flashes.

[sodascouts]

Stevie said that Lindsey was going to kill her. Mick said he had her over the hood of a car and slapped her Christine did not comment on that incident. John made the strangling gesture. I would not say that the whole band attested to a strangling.

Michele

I get where you're coming from. I used to be like this, too. Whenever I heard stories like this, I'd blow it off as lies. Heaven knows I don't want to believe something like this - I adore Lindsey, and I think he's the most talented guitarist alive.

However, personally, I feel like the evidence is pretty damning in this regard. That said, it's not my job to try to convince you or anyone else. I'm just explaining why I believe it.

That doesn't make him any less of an amazing talent... and I truly believe that he no longer does anything like this anymore.

[michelej1]

I get where you're coming from. I used to be like this, too. Whenever I heard stories like this, I'd blow it off as lies.

I'm not blowing all of the accusations against Lindsey off as lies. Based on comments he himself has made, I think it's true that he has been physically violent. In fact, I think the Tusk dance, in its earliest form (when he was swinging the amp cord at Stevie, before deciding to put it down and embrace her instead) might have been his way of illustrating his past physical aggression in a symbolic manner.

I just said I didn't believe two of the strangling stories. It has nothing to do with my not wanting to believe bad things about Lindsey. I just don't find the strangling credible. That doesn't mean I think he never assaulted women or men.

Michele

[CADreaming]

I agree with you henry. Everyone was protecting the franchise. Doesn't that piss you off? It does me. :mad:

We only heard about LB's violence after he quit FM, not before. All the violent acts insiders confess are events that took place before 1987. So are we supposed to believe he's cured from therapy, or we're not hearing about any recent violence because it's business as usual again? Everybody's protecting the francise.:confused:

I find it strange Lindsey developed this violent tendency as late as 1976. Javier Pacheco had plenty of opportunity to claim Lindsey was a violent hothead during the Fritz era and yet he never said that. In fact, he said Lindsey only made a "swipe" at him once and that was because he was defending Stevie. I have to wonder what caused him to become so angry? Was he just a mean drunk?

[louielouie2000]

I'm not blowing all of the accusations against Lindsey off as lies. Based on comments he himself has made, I think it's true that he has been physically violent. In fact, I think the Tusk dance, in its earliest form (when he was swinging the amp cord at Stevie, before deciding to put it down and embrace her instead) might have been his way of illustrating his past physical aggression in a symbolic manner.

I just said I didn't believe two of the strangling stories. It has nothing to do with my not wanting to believe bad things about Lindsey. I just don't find the strangling credible. That doesn't mean I think he never assaulted women or men.

Michele

Do I think Lindsey strangled someone: impeded a person's breath to the point of the point of the victim losing consciousness? No. But could Lindsey have choked someone in the heat of the moment in an insecure rage? I think that's certainly possible, and we've heard it from multiple sources. Choking is one thing, strangulation is another level.

[michelej1]

Do I think Lindsey strangled someone: impeded a person's breath to the point of the point of the victim losing consciousness? No. But could Lindsey have choked someone in the heat of the moment in an insecure rage? I think that's certainly possible, and we've heard it from multiple sources.

You guys have heard it from multiple sources. I haven't. The way Rock Family Trees was put together, Stevie said she ran across the room and grabbed Lindsey. Immediately after that comment, that's when we cut to John saying, "It got ugly, physically ugly." He then makes the strangling gesture at his neck. To me, that's not him saying that Lindsey choked Stevie. It could be, but due to the sequence, I just don't think it is. I think John is referencing the way Stevie attacked Lindsey.

Lindsey then proceeded to chase her, got her out to the car and pinned her, hit her, made her think she was about to be murdered, maybe tried to strangle her. I don't know, but I don't think John's gesture was directed at whatever he did. Not given the sequence of the documentary.

Michele

[CADreaming]

You guys have heard it from multiple sources. I haven't. The way Rock Family Trees was put together, Stevie said she ran across the room and grabbed Lindsey. Immediately after that comment, that's when we cut to John saying, "It got ugly, physically ugly." He then makes the strangling gesture at his neck. To me, that's not him saying that Lindsey choked Stevie. It could be, but due to the sequence, I just don't think it is. I think John is referencing the way Stevie attacked Lindsey.

Lindsey then proceeded to chase her, got her out to the car and pinned her, hit her, made her think she was about to be murdered, maybe tried to strangle her. I don't know, but I don't think John's gesture was directed at whatever he did. Not given the sequence of the documentary.

Michele

I agree. I thought John was referring to Stevie concerning that particular fight. Seems I remember Stevie describing the incident in a more recent interview where she made the same gesture and was referring to herself as the attacker.

[BombaySapphire3]

I agree. I thought John was referring to Stevie concerning that particular fight. Seems I remember Stevie describing the incident in a more recent interview where she made the same gesture and was referring to herself as the attacker.

In Lindsey's VH1 Behind the Music in regard to the Tango fight she stated."Then I ran across the room at him and tried to kill him"

[CADreaming]

In Lindsey's VH1 Behind the Music in regard to the Tango fight she stated."Then I ran across the room at him and tried to kill him"

Yeah. I believe it was the Eye to Eye interview in 2007. Wish I could find the complete interview now because she had some real funny moments in that.

Edit: Found a written transcript. "The tour was set to go," Nicks said. "Well, he didn't just get violent with me; I did run across the room and attack him."

Here's the video. The segment I'm referring to is at 6:40ish.
<object width="410" height="341" id="veohFlashPlayer" name="veohFlashPlayer"><param name="movie" value="http://www.veoh.com/swf/webplayer/WebPlayer.swf?version=AFrontend.5.7.0.1348&permalinkId=v328990SSzGNtz8&player=videodetailsembedded&videoAutoPlay=0&id=anonymous"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.veoh.com/swf/webplayer/WebPlayer.swf?version=AFrontend.5.7.0.1348&permalinkId=v328990SSzGNtz8&player=videodetailsembedded&videoAutoPlay=0&id=anonymous" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="410" height="341" id="veohFlashPlayerEmbed" name="veohFlashPlayerEmbed"></embed></object><br /><font size="1">Watch <a href="http://www.veoh.com/watch/v328990SSzGNtz8">stevie nicks on cbs news sunday morning 03252007</a> in <a href="http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/music">Music</a> | View More <a href="http://www.veoh.com">Free Videos Online at Veoh.com</a></font>

[michelej1]

Edit: Found a written transcript. "The tour was set to go," Nicks said. "Well, he didn't just get violent with me; I did run across the room and attack him."

Here's the video. The segment I'm referring to is at 6:40ish.


Thanks for pinning that down. And I would point out that Rock Family Trees, in which the band also discussed this, was an interview that took place when the members were not together and had bitter feelings for each other. So, the more recent comments do not rewrite history. They just affirm what was also said when the band was broken up and acrimonious.

Michele

[vivfox]

Here's the video.The segment I'm referring to is at 6:40ish.


It's not in this video Dee. This is a good one, very enjoyable but it only runs for 5 minutes.

[Johnny Stew]

I find it strange Lindsey developed this violent tendency as late as 1976. Javier Pacheco had plenty of opportunity to claim Lindsey was a violent hothead during the Fritz era and yet he never said that. In fact, he said Lindsey only made a "swipe" at him once and that was because he was defending Stevie. I have to wonder what caused him to become so angry? Was he just a mean drunk?

In Tina Turner's autobiography, Tina (as well as several other associates, former Ikettes, etc.) said that Ike's personality really changed for the worst when he was on cocaine. That's when he was the most aggressive, paranoid, and violent. Perhaps it had a similar effect on Lindsey -- though most certainly to a far lesser degree.

[CADreaming]

It's not in this video Dee. This is a good one, very enjoyable but it only runs for 5 minutes.

Really? It works for me. It's about 10.5 minutes long, but it was really slow loading.

In Tina Turner's autobiography, Tina (as well as several other associates, former Ikettes, etc.) said that Ike's personality really changed for the worst when he was on cocaine. That's when he was the most aggressive, paranoid, and violent. Perhaps it had a similar effect on Lindsey -- though most certainly to a far lesser degree.

I'm sure that's true. And, Stevie has said they really didn't get into drinking or hard drugs until they moved to LA.

[vivfox]

Really? It works for me. It's about 10.5 minutes long, but it was really slow loading.


It says right at the bottom of the video: this is a five minute preview.

[David]

And you're sure of this? Such certainty and conviction must come from somewhere.I'm absolutely certain. I'll eat a hat of your choosing if Stevie ever publishes a book-length biography!

[kaitsy]

It says right at the bottom of the video: this is a five minute preview.

If you open the video in it's own browser it plays in full, I think the preview is just for when the video is embedded such as in this thread.

[michelej1]

I'm absolutely certain. I'll eat a hat of your choosing if Stevie ever publishes a book-length biography!

I would advise dnightshade to choose something with feathers. Phyllis Diller used to sport a feather clown wig that would suit this bill very nicely.

Michele

[vivfox]

If you open the video in it's own browser it plays in full, I think the preview is just for when the video is embedded such as in this thread.


It's alright. I've seen this interview when it aired and the subject at hand is not new to me but I appreciate your effort regardless.

[BTFLCHLD]

im still not getting it.
is it really that hard for people to fathom this chit goes on?
someone in the world is being choked as i write this.
sad but true.

[Nathan]

Doesn't seem to work for mobile

[jbrownsjr]

im still not getting it.
is it really that hard for people to fathom this chit goes on?
someone in the world is being choked as i write this.
sad but true.

I mean.. really...

I know!!!! It was his way of saying hello to some of his dates!!! yeah that must be it!! :laugh: and the rest of them sat with their hands folded after doin bumps all day long..

[BTFLCHLD]

I mean.. really...

I know!!!! It was his way of saying hello to some of his dates!!! yeah that must be it!! :laugh: and the rest of them sat with their hands folded after doin bumps all day long..
:laugh:


perhaps the shrill of their voices :shrug:

let's suppose, in circumstance as described or imagining your own, what would you do witnessing such behaviour?

[michelej1]

let's suppose, in circumstance as described or imagining your own, what would you do witnessing such behaviour?

I'm no Corey Booker when it comes to martyrdom, but I think if I saw a choking in progress, I'd intervene. I think you're less likely to get hurt yourself (by a flailing fist, like Ken thought he'd get when he helped Richard get free of John Courage). If someone is choking someone else and you pull them away, I think you're safer than when there's a regular fight and you try to get in the middle of it.

I'm sure you're right that choking happens every day and is happening somewhere now, but aside from Homer and Bart, I'd say it usually doesn't happen with witnesses. I think it's a less public form of attack.

On another note, I was laughing about Christine saying YMLF was about her dog as a cover story. I don't know how that would be believable, after a point. I mean, it's not unusual to call a dog "sweet wonderful you" but beyond that . . . you get into bestiality.

Also, Dee, did you add this to the Los Gatos package: Ken saying that Stevie and Lindsey lived together for 7 years alone and then for a few more years with Richard.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Also, Dee, did you add this to the Los Gatos package: Ken saying that Stevie and Lindsey lived together for 7 years alone and then for a few more years with Richard.

Michele

Oh, no I didn't catch that! :)

They are the movingest people. The timeline is all over the place & with so many roomies.

[michelej1]

Oh, no I didn't catch that! :)

They are the movingest people. The timeline is all over the place & with so many roomies.

Since they don't know years themselves, then other people with whom they've shared their story can't really say what the timeline is. But Ken thought they had known each other for 10 years when he met them and saying that they lived together for 7 alone and then a few more with Richard makes it sound like they darn near lived together almost as long as they'd known each other. So, that's the impression he came away with.

He also spoke of Lindsey learning to play with both sides of his fingernails due to being supine with the mono. So, he heard the mono story too.

Michele

[sodascouts]

IOn another note, I was laughing about Christine saying YMLF was about her dog as a cover story. I don't know how that would be believable, after a point. I mean, it's not unusual to call a dog "sweet wonderful you" but beyond that . . . you get into bestiality.

lol! I thought the same thing when I read that!

[David]

Since they don't know years themselves, then other people with whom they've shared their story can't really say what the timeline is. But Ken thought they had known each other for 10 years when he met them and saying that they lived together for 7 alone and then a few more with Richard makes it sound like they darn near lived together almost as long as they'd known each other. So, that's the impression he came away with.
"Ten years ago, me and Robin and Lindsey lived together."

-- Stevie Nicks, Jim Ladd's Innerview, December 1979

[Jondalar]

"Ten years ago, me and Robin and Lindsey lived together."

-- Stevie Nicks, Jim Ladd's Innerview, December 1979

well, if that is what she said, then why wouldn't he?

[David]

well, if that is what she said, then why wouldn't he?
He ... who?

[dnightshade]

I'm absolutely certain. I'll eat a hat of your choosing if Stevie ever publishes a book-length biography!
You are wrong, but I will take you up on this. And I have closets of hats at my disposal. I'll start going through the collection to find the perfect one.

[poetinmyheart]

Since they don't know years themselves, then other people with whom they've shared their story can't really say what the timeline is. But Ken thought they had known each other for 10 years when he met them and saying that they lived together for 7 alone and then a few more with Richard makes it sound like they darn near lived together almost as long as they'd known each other. So, that's the impression he came away with.

He also spoke of Lindsey learning to play with both sides of his fingernails due to being supine with the mono. So, he heard the mono story too.

Michele

"Ten years ago, me and Robin and Lindsey lived together."

-- Stevie Nicks, Jim Ladd's Innerview, December 1979

The early Stevie & Lindsey timeline confuses me. They contradict themselves, they contradict each other and then other people pitch in with their recollections.

[CADreaming]

The early Stevie & Lindsey timeline confuses me. They contradict themselves, they contradict each other and then other people pitch in with their recollections.

They contradict themselves because they lie. If they wouldn't have kept insisting 'we weren't together until 1971' then there might be more accuracy in some of the stories. I don't understand the reason to lie about it. The guys in Fritz knew they were together and were being secretive about it way before 1971. But, Stevie is horrible with dates - or math! For instance, she'll say she met Lindsey in 1965 and "didn't see him again for 2 years" when she got the call from Bob to join the band - which would be accurate (year wise) because she joined Fritz in 1967. But, then she'll turn around and say she joined Fritz in 1968.

Or when she wrote Rhiannon and Landslide - not 1973. It was 1974. Of course, I don't think she's intentionally lying about that - it probably all just runs together for her.

I would like to know about Robin though. I'm just curious. I guess she moved to N. California to go to college. Javier said she was from Los Altos.

[WildHearted]

I still can't, for the life of me, figure out the incentive to lie about how long they lived together / dated etc etc. Who really cares?

The only thing I can think is that perhaps it was some cover-up because it overlapped with someone else's relationship with one of them, or somebody's parents didn't know in the beginning or something. Still, by the time they were telling anyone about it, I don't see why they were concerned with anything like that. And certainly not now.

[CADreaming]

I still can't, for the life of me, figure out the incentive to lie about how long they lived together / dated etc etc. Who really cares?

The only thing I can think is that perhaps it was some cover-up because it overlapped with someone else's relationship with one of them, or somebody's parents didn't know in the beginning or something. Still, by the time they were telling anyone about it, I don't see why they were concerned with anything like that. And certainly not now.

I know. I think it must be one or both of those reasons. And, maybe - speculating - Stevie just still really cared what her parents believed about the timing of her relationship with Lindsey?

[WildHearted]

I know. I think it must be one or both of those reasons. And, maybe - speculating - Stevie just still really cared what her parents believed about the timing of her relationship with Lindsey?

Perhaps. :shrug: That seems like a silly reason to lie years after the fact, but it's one of the only I can even think of. Maybe it had something to do with them supporting her, they might've cut her off or something if they knew she was living with him. And then to spare having a blowout or something they attempted to keep up the lie (unsuccessfully obviously). I still think it seems ridiculous to be concerned with it 10+ years after the fact, but then, who knows.

When is the earliest one of them has said they lived together - 1968, 1969?

[poetinmyheart]

The whole thing just seems really odd. There must be a reason for it as you guys say. Curious.

[bombaysaffires]

I would like to know about Robin though. I'm just curious. I guess she moved to N. California to go to college. Javier said she was from Los Altos.

Los Altos is in Northern California, just a couple of towns from San Jose.

this was the 60s, people, I'm sure they had friends crashing with them for days/weeks/months on end all the time and coming and going. Not surprised Robin would have been one of them. Knew about richard; both Stevie and Richard have told stories about how when Stevie would have a fight with Lindsey, Richard would come home and find Stevie sleeping in his (Richard's) bed so he'd go sleep on a couch or something....

I'd bet Walter Egan, guys from Fritz, Robin, and a whole host of other people crashed there throughout... would love to imagine what a place it must have been....

[poetinmyheart]

Los Altos is in Northern California, just a couple of towns from San Jose.

this was the 60s, people, I'm sure they had friends crashing with them for days/weeks/months on end all the time and coming and going. Not surprised Robin would have been one of them. Knew about richard; both Stevie and Richard have told stories about how when Stevie would have a fight with Lindsey, Richard would come home and find Stevie sleeping in his (Richard's) bed so he'd go sleep on a couch or something....

I'd bet Walter Egan, guys from Fritz, Robin, and a whole host of other people crashed there throughout... would love to imagine what a place it must have been....

Yes. Oh to have been a fly on the wall!

[Nathan]

'Richaaard, don't you think that Rhiannon is a beautiful name?'

[michelej1]

Los Altos is in Northern California, just a couple of towns from San Jose.

this was the 60s, people, I'm sure they had friends crashing with them for days/weeks/months on end all the time and coming and going. Not surprised Robin would have been one of them.

Also, they needed help with rent, so that's all the more reason to let someone stay, if they're going to chip in with some money.

Even after Rumours came out, Lindsey was letting a couple of the Fritz guys live with him. Carol said she actually liked having them around. And, of course, Richard was around a lot. He and Lindsey must have lived together for 10 years when all is combined.

Stevie had Herbie living over her garage. Tom is said to have lived with her for awhile, when they built that studio. They just don't like to be alone. Speaking of Tom . . .

We often debate the angry Smile At You here and Ken says that Lindsey didn't like it for Rumours because Tom had developed it with Stevie. Once Lindsey learned that, then he didn't want to work with it anymore. But he and the band did play the song together, before Lindsey lost interest and Ken said that the 2003 song did not stand up to their earlier arrangement. So, I suppose their early take was the infamous "angry" version.

Of course, we know from Stevie that Smile At You was also considered for Mirage, but she said that they decided to go with something lighter.

Michele

[David]

Of course, we know from Stevie that Smile At You was also considered for Mirage, but she said that they decided to go with something lighter.
But then that 1982 article by David Gans came out in Record, which more than hinted at all sorts of negative vibes between Stevie and the others during the Mirage sessions.

So maybe they should have just done Smile at You for the album, & just come clean that year about all the hatred flying around! ;)

[michelej1]

But then that 1982 article by David Gans came out in Record, which more than hinted at all sorts of negative vibes between Stevie and the others during the Mirage sessions.




As far as excuses for not recording a song go, that was a lame one. Who wants light songs from Fleetwood Mac? No one is aiming for an album full of Don't Stops.

[HomerMcvie]

As far as excuses for not recording a song go, that was a lame one. Who wants light songs from Fleetwood Mac? No one is aiming for an album full of Don't Stops.

Well I think the point was, that after all the experimentation on Tusk, to get back to a more radio friendly sound.:shrug: $$$$$$$$$;)

[michelej1]

Well I think the point was, that after all the experimentation on Tusk, to get back to a more radio friendly sound.:shrug: $$$$$$$$$;)

But Smile At You wasn't experimental. It certainly would have fit more easily on an album like Rumours than on Tusk.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

But then that 1982 article by David Gans came out in Record, which more than hinted at all sorts of negative vibes between Stevie and the others during the Mirage sessions.

So maybe they should have just done Smile at You for the album, & just come clean that year about all the hatred flying around! ;)
Yeah, but John's bass lines were so much better on the SYW version.

[CADreaming]

Los Altos is in Northern California, just a couple of towns from San Jose.

this was the 60s, people, I'm sure they had friends crashing with them for days/weeks/months on end all the time and coming and going. Not surprised Robin would have been one of them. Knew about richard; both Stevie and Richard have told stories about how when Stevie would have a fight with Lindsey, Richard would come home and find Stevie sleeping in his (Richard's) bed so he'd go sleep on a couch or something....

I'd bet Walter Egan, guys from Fritz, Robin, and a whole host of other people crashed there throughout... would love to imagine what a place it must have been....

Yeah for sure. It's split into two distinct periods though -- before LA and after LA, different group of people except for Robin and Bob Aguirre. The before LA is very interesting to me just because it's the beginning of everything for Buckingham Nicks.

I brought up Robin being from Los Altos because Stevie originally met her at Arcadia. I just thought Javier's comment was odd, but figured she must have moved to Los Altos and was attending college with Stevie.

[David]

I brought up Robin being from Los Altos because Stevie originally met her at Arcadia.I'm from Arcadia.

[egg cream]

I'm from Arcadia.

Dumbass, you could have been BFFs with Stevie Nicks.

[David]

Dumbass, you could have been BFFs with Stevie Nicks.
I didn't know! She was just a nerdy girl in granny glasses back then!

[Fireflies]

I didn't know! She was just a nerdy girl in granny glasses back then!

and boy were you studly!

[HomerMcvie]

I didn't know! She was just a nerdy girl in granny glasses back then!

I still think you're from Obie's Lighting, regardless of your denial....:mad:




:xoxo:;):shrug::sorry::cool:

[CADreaming]

When is the earliest one of them has said they lived together - 1968, 1969?

'69 in a house in Los Gatos. But, Stevie only came out with that little tidbit in 2009. Up to that point it was usually '71 - and Stevie usually said they got together when Fritz broke up. Javier said that was malarkey and didn't know why she would lie about it. Bob confirmed they had been together for a while in Fritz, but had been secretive about it. :shrug:

[WildHearted]

'69 in a house in Los Gatos. But, Stevie only came out with that little tidbit in 2009. Up to that point it was usually '71 - and Stevie usually said they got together when Fritz broke up. Javier said that was malarkey and didn't know why she would lie about it. Bob confirmed they had been together for a while in Fritz, but had been secretive about it. :shrug:

Gotcha. And I would assume there was some sort of a relationship going on before they moved in together and started sharing that mattress on the floor. :lol:

[CADreaming]

Gotcha. And I would assume there was some sort of a relationship going on before they moved in together and started sharing that mattress on the floor. :lol:

:lol: Exactly! Of course, Stevie fell in love with him "at first sight" in '65-'66 too so....

[Jondalar]

I just finished this book and I don't think it was that scathing. The band had a few outbursts but they came together for the music. I understand the band members personalities better - why their real meltdowns came in the 1980s, it was like carry-over from the 1970s. I hope he writes TUSK.

[Jondalar]

They contradict themselves because they lie. If they wouldn't have kept insisting 'we weren't together until 1971' then there might be more accuracy in some of the stories. I don't understand the reason to lie about it. The guys in Fritz knew they were together and were being secretive about it way before 1971. But, Stevie is horrible with dates - or math! For instance, she'll say she met Lindsey in 1965 and "didn't see him again for 2 years" when she got the call from Bob to join the band - which would be accurate (year wise) because she joined Fritz in 1967. But, then she'll turn around and say she joined Fritz in 1968.

Or when she wrote Rhiannon and Landslide - not 1973. It was 1974. Of course, I don't think she's intentionally lying about that - it probably all just runs together for her.

I would like to know about Robin though. I'm just curious. I guess she moved to N. California to go to college. Javier said she was from Los Altos.

What is confusing from the book is did Stevie leave Lindsey or did he leave her? From her songs, it almost seems like he left her.

[michelej1]

What is confusing from the book is did Stevie leave Lindsey or did he leave her? From her songs, it almost seems like he left her.

The fact is, Stevie and Lindsey broke up many times and it was an ongoing process. It wasn't a single clean break. Ken's book brings this out, with Lindsey saying he is going to move out as soon as they get back to California and Stevie saying she doesn't want to live with him anymore anyway. And Ken saying Dreams is about Lindsey not letting her love him and taking her for granted.

But Stevie has discussed their ongoing break up too. She has described one argument by saying that she and Lindsey weren't living together, but that they were still together enough for him to stay at her place. Then, they had a big fight and he left with the car (once again).

So, they probably broke up many, many times over the course of a year and sometimes he left and sometimes she left. I don't think there was one big leave. But I guess once she went and got a house of her own (which we learn she called "El Contento") that made the break permanent. So, she had the last goodbye, but there seem to have been many temporary goodbyes.

Michele

[vivfox]

I just finished this book and I don't think it was that scathing.


LOL! You're the one who named this thread.:lol:

[David]

I still think you're from Obie's Lighting, regardless of your denial....:mad:

I think it's time I just came clean.
http://livedesignonline.com/news/show_business_lighting_vet_david/

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljagr7U1cs1qcaugio1_500.jpg

[HomerMcvie]

I think it's time I just came clean.
http://livedesignonline.com/news/show_business_lighting_vet_david/

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljagr7U1cs1qcaugio1_500.jpg

So is this an admission? I've subscribed to Live Design for several years(free industry subscription, actually), and have read several Obie's articles. I'm not saying there couldn't be another David O, BUT I always found it quite coincidental, that their business address wasn't far, AT ALL, from your address...
I hope you know I'm only playing...although I would love being told that I'm correct, and my detective work accurate!!!:D

[CADreaming]

What is confusing from the book is did Stevie leave Lindsey or did he leave her? From her songs, it almost seems like he left her.

"Go on, get out! But, you don't forget me." I love that line.

The fact is, Stevie and Lindsey broke up many times and it was an ongoing process. It wasn't a single clean break. Ken's book brings this out, with Lindsey saying he is going to move out as soon as they get back to California and Stevie saying she doesn't want to live with him anymore anyway. And Ken saying Dreams is about Lindsey not letting her love him and taking her for granted.

But Stevie has discussed their ongoing break up too. She has described one argument by saying that she and Lindsey weren't living together, but that they were still together enough for him to stay at her place. Then, they had a big fight and he left with the car (once again).

So, they probably broke up many, many times over the course of a year and sometimes he left and sometimes she left. I don't think there was one big leave. But I guess once she went and got a house of her own (which we learn she called "El Contento") that made the break permanent. So, she had the last goodbye, but there seem to have been many temporary goodbyes.

Michele

Yeah, for instance - I remember Stevie saying in the Chris Isaak interview that the first thing she did when they joined FM was to rent her own apartment. And, then 6 months later Lindsey moved in.

[Jondalar]

We never hear a lot about Christine in the making of Rumours but I actually love her story in the making of this album. Her songs really did come about because of her relationships. It feels like she was almost as creative as Lindsey and huge part of the creative process.

I believe ken when he talks about how Stevie was under utilized. However, when you have such a distinct and overpowering presence a little can go long way. Her talent saved The Chain, her voice added soo much to songs that weren't hers - Oh Daddy especially. I am glad Silver Springs got kicked off Rumours. I love the song but I Don't Wanna Know added the right energy to that album. The version from The Dance happened for a reason anyway.

Linsdey. If he didn't act the way he did, they wouldn't have those records.

[bombaysaffires]

The fact is, Stevie and Lindsey broke up many times and it was an ongoing process. It wasn't a single clean break. Ken's book brings this out, with Lindsey saying he is going to move out as soon as they get back to California and Stevie saying she doesn't want to live with him anymore anyway. And Ken saying Dreams is about Lindsey not letting her love him and taking her for granted.

But Stevie has discussed their ongoing break up too. She has described one argument by saying that she and Lindsey weren't living together, but that they were still together enough for him to stay at her place. Then, they had a big fight and he left with the car (once again).

So, they probably broke up many, many times over the course of a year and sometimes he left and sometimes she left. I don't think there was one big leave. But I guess once she went and got a house of her own (which we learn she called "El Contento") that made the break permanent. So, she had the last goodbye, but there seem to have been many temporary goodbyes.

Michele

I thought the house already had that name when she bought it... hadn't it been owned in the past by a silent film star in the 20s?

[HomerMcvie]

We never hear a lot about Christine in the making of Rumours but I actually love her story in the making of this album. Her songs really did come about because of her relationships. It feels like she was almost as creative as Lindsey and huge part of the creative process.


but I Don't Wanna Know added the right energy to that album. The version from The Dance happened for a reason anyway.

Linsdey. If he didn't act the way he did, they wouldn't have those records.
Imagine Rumours without her two big hits! There's no way it would have gone half as viral as it did, without YMLF and Don't Stop. Those four singles collectively catapulted Rumours into the stratosphere.

I've never understood why IDWTK is the freaking redheaded stepchild of the album. You are 100% correct!!! It added much needed energy to the end of the album. In fact, the solo to IDWTK is the very first guitar solo that I ever learned to play. I was so in love with that song. I still have no idea what that ditz has against it....:mad:

As much as I think Lindsey is a spoiled, childish brat, with anger management issues, what you said is true, also. IF he hadn't been that dictator that he was, we wouldn't have had those albums. I strongly suspect that the band knew that, too, and that's why they tolerated his bad behavior.

[vivfox]

I've never understood why IDWTK is the freaking redheaded stepchild of the album. You are 100% correct!!! It added much needed energy to the end of the album. I still have no idea what that ditz has against it....:mad:

During the Rumours hoopla I played that album endlessly and while I didn't dislike IDWTK I always felt a vibe that it felt out of place on that record. Many moons later when Stevie revealed the story behind it did I understand why I had that dislocated feeling all along.

[michelej1]

I thought Caillat's repeated comments about Lindsey being reticent singing SHN in front of Stevie were amusing, because I've always wanted to know what she thinks of the song. She has talked about being flattered by NGBA, because he ends by asking her to come on down and see him some time. Well, if she considers that flattering, then SHN should sweep her away, because he's asking for a lot more.:o

Of course, the lyrics are salacious and I could see Lindsey being shy not just about singing them in front of Stevie, but in front of mixed company period. So, I think it's cute that he first sang them through fully when the women were on vacation and it was an all-boys gang. Fast forward to the song becoming a concert staple, with Stevie singing along in exuberance, her mic ribbons flying.

His hesitation in sharing the new bass parts with John was also well and humorously presented in the book I could feel everyone's tension at dinner as Lindsey got up the nerve to casually explain his ideas for the bass line. I did laugh.

It is devastating to read that Ken recorded 100 live shows all over the world in a period of 4 years. I don't even want to know what kind of stuff they have lying round in vaults, because we'll never see/hear it. It's just depressing. I mean, unless it's the Beatles or, maybe, Elvis, it will never be worthwhile to anyone monetarily to make those things available to fans.

I remember Nancy Sinatra saying that there were 100s of recordings of Rat Pack Vegas performances all pristine, because they were recorded by engineers at the casino. Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Peter Lawford, all being so silly together. There are many, many fans who would give their eye-teeth to have these things. Thousands of fans, but not millions. So, these attic gems will never be marketed.

It's the same thing with FM. Painful.



I've never understood why IDWTK is the freaking redheaded stepchild of the album. You are 100% correct!!! It added much needed energy to the end of the album. In fact, the solo to IDWTK is the very first guitar solo that I ever learned to play. I was so in love with that song. I still have no idea what that ditz has against it....:mad:


I too believe that IDWTK is a great song. Although, I can understand Stevie's view. Even aside from her emotional ties to SS, IDWTK was already old to her. I can understand her wanting her freshest material on the album that they all could sense was shaping up to be something great. I mean, it's like having the queen come to dinner and being forced to serve her leftovers.

But I'm glad history played out the way it did and that SS did not make the album. Twenty years later, it shone all the brighter when it finally took its place in the sun.

Michele

[Jondalar]

During the Rumours hoopla I played that album endlessly and while I didn't dislike IDWTK I always felt a vibe that it felt out of place on that record. Many moons later when Stevie revealed the story behind it did I understand why I had that dislocated feeling all along.

well dreams and gold dust woman and oh daddy we sorta down song, I don't wanna know was up and what the recorded needed.

It was sort of a ditch sto Stevie that he picked it for her. A lot of decisions did not go in her favor this record, but she was a trooper. (Mad as hell and now calling managers and thing to contemplate a solo career.

[David]

I too believe that IDWTK is a great song. It's both more than a great song and a song that's not quite so great. But its place on Rumours is absolutely essential because of its production. It completes the vocal feel of Appalachia that runs through about 75 percent of Rumours--it's the auditory atmosphere of Appalachian hillbilly-folk songs that Albert Goldman spoke about in his analysis of the album, when he differentiated it from the "dreadful modern product" of crossover country (huge at the time, thanks to Glen Campbell, Charlie Rich, Kenny Rogers, B.W. McCall, Charley Pride, Crystal Gayle, Olivia Newton-John, and Anne Murray) by likening it to the "long-forgotten strains of ancient mountain music."

That was in Esquire, and all the astute critics saw Rumours that way. Even the Los Angeles Times noticed the haunting vocal harmonies that sounded like work songs from the coal mines, and praised the Mac over the vocally tight Bee Gees (who were spreading a mechanistic, somewhat shallow vocal style--professional but not very passionate--on the pop charts).

[Jondalar]

It's both more than a great song and a song that's not quite so great. But its place on Rumours is absolutely essential because of its production. It completes the vocal feel of Appalachia that runs through about 75 percent of Rumours--it's the auditory atmosphere of Appalachian hillbilly-folk songs that Albert Goldman spoke about in his analysis of the album, when he differentiated it from the "dreadful modern product" of crossover country (huge at the time, thanks to Glen Campbell, Charlie Rich, Kenny Rogers, B.W. McCall, Charley Pride, Crystal Gayle, Olivia Newton-John, and Anne Murray) by likening it to the "long-forgotten strains of ancient mountain music."

That was in Esquire, and all the astute critics saw Rumours that way. Even the Los Angeles Times noticed the haunting vocal harmonies that sounded like work songs from the coal mines, and praised the Mac over the vocally tight Bee Gees (who were spreading a mechanistic, somewhat shallow vocal style--professional but not very passionate--on the pop charts).

The song is fun and pure energy, love it.

[CADreaming]

During the Rumours hoopla I played that album endlessly and while I didn't dislike IDWTK I always felt a vibe that it felt out of place on that record. Many moons later when Stevie revealed the story behind it did I understand why I had that dislocated feeling all along.

It sounds more like a Buckingham Nicks song than Fleetwood Mac. Which is probably why I love it.

[michelej1]

It's both more than a great song and a song that's not quite so great. But its place on Rumours is absolutely essential because of its production. It completes the vocal feel of Appalachia that runs through about 75 percent of Rumours--it's the auditory atmosphere of Appalachian hillbilly-folk songs that Albert Goldman spoke about in his analysis of the album, when he differentiated it from the "dreadful modern product" of crossover country (huge at the time, thanks to Glen Campbell, Charlie Rich, Kenny Rogers, B.W. McCall, Charley Pride, Crystal Gayle, Olivia Newton-John, and Anne Murray) by likening it to the "long-forgotten strains of ancient mountain music."

I would argue that SS could fit into that category too. I could easily hear Crystal Gayle or Olivia Newton-John performing SS. But with Songbird and Oh Daddy on the album, you don't need SS as well. Same thing with Think About It.



That was in Esquire, and all the astute critics saw Rumours that way. Even the Los Angeles Times noticed the haunting vocal harmonies that sounded like work songs from the coal mines, and praised the Mac over the vocally tight Bee Gees (who were spreading a mechanistic, somewhat shallow vocal style--professional but not very passionate--on the pop charts).

Oh, I don't know. I'm feeling very passionate about the Bee Gees right about now.

Ken talked about The Dance and how they corrected everything so that it didn't sound like a live performance any longer, how perfect and unnatural it was, which was a direct contrast to what he and Richard always strove for.

Michele

[David]

I would argue that SS could fit into that category too. I could easily hear Crystal Gayle or Olivia Newton-John performing SS.Could fit into what category? The "dreadful modern product" Goldman brought up?

But with Songbird and Oh Daddy on the album, you don't need SS as well.Why? Because they're all ballads? The majority of the tracks on Tusk are ballads (Over & Over, Save Me a Place, Sara, Storms, That's All for Everyone, Brown Eyes, Never Make Me Cry, Honey Hi, Beautiful Child, Walk a Thin Line, Never Forget).

The point I was making was not that you need to take a head count of ballads and set up a random percentage. It was that the vocal harmonies throughout the album--with their perfect thirds and perfect fourths--in combination with the timbre of the singers' actual voices create this weird sort of theme that was unique in 1970s pop rock, reminding one of the 18th and 19th century ballades and folk songs of the agrarian and rural working classes and their music.

Oh, I don't know. I'm feeling very passionate about the Bee Gees right about now.Sad about the brother who is ill. If he dies, that would leave just the one (who sang with Streisand).

Ken talked about The Dance and how they corrected everything so that it didn't sound like a live performance any longer, how perfect and unnatural it was, which was a direct contrast to what he and Richard always strove for.That became obvious to most of us who saw that on TV and then went to the actual concert when the tour started. But that sort of thing, as everyone has pointed out, is endemic to TV concert broadcasts.

Obviously, there are patches on Rumours and Tusk that sound natural and spontaneous and not cobbled together via electronic means. But there are patches that don't, right?

[vivfox]

I'm glad history played out the way it did and that SS did not make the album. Twenty years later, it shone all the brighter when it finally took its place in the sun.


I totally agree with this statement. However, some of you Ledgies may remember on that rare occasion in the 1970's and 1980's that an AOR station played Silver Springs? It was an absolute joy for the listener. And it made you appreciate Stevie Nicks and her precious songwriting even more. It also brought her a lot more attention from DJ's wondering why FM would drop such a gem from Rumours.

[HejiraNYC]

I totally agree with this statement. However, some of you Ledgies may remember on that rare occasion in the 1970's and 1980's that an AOR station played Silver Springs? It was an absolute joy for the listener. And it made you appreciate Stevie Nicks and her precious songwriting even more. It also brought her a lot more attention from DJ's wondering why FM would drop such a gem from Rumours.

It was simply maddening. It was that song that was on the radio constantly, but I never did find out the name of the song or the artist performing it (until a few years later). It isn't the kind of song in which the title is repeated in the chorus... but then again, "Silver Springs" doesn't really have a chorus, does it? All I know is that it is one of the few FM songs that I knew by heart, but didn't know it was actually performed by FM.

[michelej1]

Could fit into what category? The "dreadful modern product" Goldman brought up?

Yes.

Why? Because they're all ballads?

Not just ballads, but rather mournful. And I would say that even though the lyrics in both Songbird and Dreams are hopeful, the tone is moody and mournful. I think the tightness and tempo of IDWTK is what the album needed for balance.

The majority of the tracks on Tusk are ballads (Over & Over, Save Me a Place, Sara, Storms, That's All for Everyone, Brown Eyes, Never Make Me Cry, Honey Hi, Beautiful Child, Walk a Thin Line, Never Forget).

The mood of these songs is completely different. Honey Hi is worlds away Storms.. However, I would say that the overload of ballads is one of several things that kept Tusk from being the hit they were dying for Rumours to be. So, your observations about Tusk don't detract from the point I was making about IDWTK in the least.



That became obvious to most of us who saw that on TV and then went to the actual concert when the tour started. But that sort of thing, as everyone has pointed out, is endemic to TV concert broadcasts.

Some fans didn't care for it (I loved it), but what I think was interesting is that Ken suggests that, if he and Richard had been asked to be part of the reunion, he wouldn't have done it that way, even in 1997, even if it was common for TV broadcasts. Would the Dance cd have sounded more like Fleetwood Mac's live album with his involvement? With the raw edges showing, would it have sold as much? For me, the best moments from that show didn't sound vastly different live anyway, Big Love, SYLM,compared pretty well to the live performances. I have no complaints. And (unlike the photoshopped images of the band) the vocals were not sweetened to the point of incredulity for me.

Now, I did enjoy SS a lot more live than on the DVD. That is true.

Michele

[michelej1]

So, I was just reviewing what we know about Smile At You. Ken said Stevie developed it with Tom and when Lindsey found out that Tom had been involved, he didn't want the song on Runours. However when asked about the song in his Q & A here, Tom said sorry, he didn't even know anything about that song.

Michele

[David]

So, I was just reviewing what we know about Smile At You. Ken said Stevie developed it with Tom and when Lindsey found out that Tom had been involved, he didn't want the song on Runours. However when asked about the song in his Q & A here, Tom said sorry, he didn't even know anything about that song.These guys never remember what happened. In his Q&A, Ken didn't remember that the band recorded it for Mirage. Stevie doesn't remember which year she toured for The Wild Heart. And Brett Tuggle didn't remember that he played the piano on Oh Daddy on the 1997 tour.

[iamnotafraid]

The most shocking thing of all, there's no
mention of Barry in the Caillat book.
Sure he became more important to Stevie
in the early 80's and then the 90's, for most
obvious reasons. But no mention at all!?!?
What gives Ken?

[michelej1]

These guys never remember what happened. In his Q&A, Ken didn't remember that the band recorded it for Mirage. Stevie doesn't remember which year she toured for The Wild Heart. And Brett Tuggle didn't remember that he played the piano on Oh Daddy on the 1997 tour.

Yes, but since Golden Braid was the only song he co-wrote with Stevie, if he'd actually developed Smile at You with her, he would have remembered. It's not like they had a lot of true collaborations, though he was dubbed "demo producer."

Michele

[David]

Yes, but since Golden Braid was the only song he co-wrote with Stevie, if he'd actually developed Smile at You with her, he would have remembered. It's not like they had a lot of true collaborations, though he was dubbed "demo producer.""Golden Braid" may be the only song published that Tom co-wrote. Sometimes I wonder just how many songs Moncrieff may have helped Stevie build. On Nancy's website, he took credit not only for helping Stevie orchestrate "Sara" but for having laid down the tracks that were actually used on the Tusk album. (The claim is suspect for a number of reasons, but it was made.)

A lot of old demos filled with mystery musicians may have been Moncrieff and assorted people: How about the "All the King's Horses" full-band demo? or the old "If You Ever Did Believe"? The demos with electric keyboard and Casio-style drum are easy to identify as Stevie herself, but many of those full-band demos that are neither Fleetwood Mac nor the Heartbreakers may very well be a circle of friends that include Tom M.

Sometimes, Mick Fleetwood is easy to pick out as the drummer--as on the "Storms" and "Watchdevil" demos from Almanac. But who else is playing?

[michelej1]

"Golden Braid" may be the only song published that Tom co-wrote. Sometimes I wonder just how many songs Moncrieff may have helped Stevie build. On Nancy's website, he took credit not only for helping Stevie orchestrate "Sara" but for having laid down the tracks that were actually used on the Tusk album. (The claim is suspect for a number of reasons, but it was made.)



Yes, he said he co-wrote Golden Braid and worked on Leather and Lace, Sara, Outside The Rain, Gypsy and Sisters of the Moon. He talked about Stevie venturing off into a Motwon sound on SOTM that he wished he'd had the opportunity to explore further. And then a lot of Bella Donna album pre-production, but he didn't even think he was part of Stevie's life when she was doing Smile at You.

So, Hernan Rojas was the engineer on a lot of those things. I wonder what he remembers.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

It sounds more like a Buckingham Nicks song than Fleetwood Mac. Which is probably why I love it.

I love this tune... I has the energy and vibe that I think is totally Rumours.. but yet in a B/N sort of way... I always picture Christine doing the clapping.. lol

[David]

He talked about Stevie venturing off into a Motwon sound on SOTM that he wished he'd had the opportunity to explore further.What a bizarre thing to say. The Motown sound refers to production and orchestrative elements found in certain soul and R&B records. Stevie sings her song and backs herself on piano on SOTM. What does that have to do with Motown?! (My question is rhetorical: It has nothing to do with Motown.) Maybe he was thinking of the vocal doo-wa on Sara from early takes?

So, Hernan Rojas was the engineer on a lot of those things. I wonder what he remembers.Line him up for a Q&A! We have a lot to ask him.

[michelej1]

What a bizarre thing to say. The Motown sound refers to production and orchestrative elements found in certain soul and R&B records.

He referenced piano that sounded like vibraphone parts that were syncopated.

Michele

[David]

He referenced piano that sounded like vibraphone parts that were syncopated.That still doesn't make any sense. Michele, can you post the interview transcript?

[Morgana]

And....here's Ken tonight on blogtalkradio.......

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juneauxena/2012/04/19/juneau-xenas-salon

[michelej1]

That still doesn't make any sense. Michele, can you post the interview transcript?

David, you know exactly where that interview is. Why are you faking befuddlement?

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/fwm/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=623&Itemid=383

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/fwm/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=667&Itemid=409

[David]

David, you know exactly where that interview is. Why are you faking befuddlement?

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/fwm/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=623&Itemid=383

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/fwm/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=667&Itemid=409Well, I didn't know you were talking about THAT.

Hey, I was just over at Ken's website and if you follow the eBook link, you can find a bunch of really cool Shockwave-Flash embedded files--with cool photos--of various parts of the recording. Did you know that was there? Does Ken have any more of that stuff and can he share it?

To me, I don't need to read the book for the musical story. All I need to do is listen to the snippets of tracks and that tells me exactly what happened in the recording booth in terms of instrumentation and effects. (I'm an experienced listener.)

[michelej1]

To me, I don't need to read the book for the musical story. All I need to do is listen to the snippets of tracks and that tells me exactly what happened in the recording booth in terms of instrumentation and effects. (I'm an experienced listener.)

Well, read the book and make sure you are right. You may find yourself surprised in places. You may have guessed wrong about what you thought you were hearing!

Michele

[blackcat]

And....here's Ken tonight on blogtalkradio.......

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juneauxena/2012/04/19/juneau-xenas-salon

Thank you for the link. The audio interview is downloadable.

[ironman_01701]

When "The Drummer" move is released, and if Vera Farmiga does an outstanding roll playing Christine McVie, and especially if the move is a hit, it might be the nail on the coffin of the FM Band. The FM band members will be in a rush (less so with John) to sign deals with Warner Brothers. Egos are hard to remove for members in this band, despite the kind words they stated in Ken's book. Making money by touring is a very tough way to earn money, especially at their age all in their mid 60's.

[Katydid]

This book just came out in August of 2012, and I only found out about it about a week ago! I read it in one sitting! I highly suggest that anyone what wants to know what another person who sat in during the making of Rumours has to say, to definitely read this book!!

Here is a sample from this book:

"I would really love to use Lindsey as a guitarist on the albums I'm working on today, but he's just such a difficult, unhappy person so much of the time that it's too much work to deal with him. Lindsey and I never discussed his trying to STRANGLE me back in Miami, even though I often thought about it when he walked into the studio, especially in the days and weeks after it happened." But this is Ken Caillat's version and Lindsey, in all fairness, should have his say about this as well.

Hmmm....I read Carol Ann Harris' book, Storms, and things that make you go, hmm.

Some good photos in this book as well!

[elle]

This book just came out in August of 2012, and I only found out about it about a week ago! I read it in one sitting! I highly suggest that anyone what wants to know what another person who sat in during the making of Rumours has to say, to definitely read this book!!


welcome to The Ledge! there were several threads discussing this book when it was about to come out and then when it first came out and for some reason i have trouble finding all of them (probably b/c titles given were about discussing certain points from the book). but here's one of the threads if you are interested - http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=49673&highlight=making+rumours+Caillat

incidentally, Ken Caillat announced that paperback will be out this april.

[redtulip]

30 Days Out Interview: Ken Caillat (Producer of Fleetwood Mac’s ‘Rumours’)

http://30daysout.wordpress.com/2013/01/14/30-days-out-interview-ken-caillat-producer-of-fleetwood-macs-rumours/

Fleetwood Mac was one of the most successful and unique rock bands of the 1970s. After toiling for nearly a decade as a journeyman British blues-rock band, the Mac exploded into mainstream consciousness when they added American pop rockers Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks to the lineup.

The peak came in 1977 when Fleetwood Mac released the album Rumours, which yielded four Top 10 singles, sold more than 40 million copies and won a Grammy Award for Album of the Year. The band took almost a year to cut Rumours and while doing so lived a rock and roll soap opera marked by divorce, infidelity and constant drug use, all of which threatened to tear the band apart.

Buckingham and Nicks were no longer a couple, and they wrote thinly disguised songs about their failed relationship. Christine and John McVie were in the throes of their own divorce, as was drummer Mick Fleetwood. And all the while, the drugs and booze flowed freely.

Ken Caillat, as one of the producers of Rumours, had a ringside seat to the drama. He’s written a book, Making Rumours: The Inside Story of the Classic Fleetwood Mac Album, that pulls back the curtain on the making of this masterpiece rock album. We caught up with him after he visited Austin to talk about his book at the Texas Book Festival.

30 Days Out: How did you come to write the book?

Caillat: It was a time and an event that means a lot to many people. It was extraordinary to be a part of this album. I’m one of the only people who can write about how this great album was made. It’s kind of my responsibility to tell the story, I wish somebody had done that with the Beatles. While we were making Rumours I wanted to try and jot it all down, and I have extensive records and track sheets of everything we did. Not only was I a producer, I was also a kind of documentarian, I knew the facts of everything we did and when we did it.

Caillat: Actually when I began writing the book I had the intention of going to the band and getting their perspective. So I started trying to set up the interviews with the band, telling them I wanted to make sure it’s 100 percent correct and accurate. And after a while I got this phone call … They declined! They said they don’t help people, that’s not what they do.

30 Days Out: What does that mean?

Caillat: You got me!

30 Days Out: We really like the way you did it, sticking only to your point of view. You really didn’t need the band, right?

Caillat: Well, I am sure there was something they could have enlightened me on … the type of guitar strings they used, or some trick they did that I didn’t know about. I made a rule I wasn’t going to speculate on what they did when they went home. What I knew, what I saw, that’s what I wrote about. It would have been cool to have some of the intrigue that went on, that I only heard about. For example with Christine (McVie) … John (McVie) kept sniffing around the hotel, she didn’t want anything to do with him. Christine had to hide in Stevie’s room.

30 Days Out: We get the impression from the book that Christine was sort of your favorite person in the band.

Caillat: Um, you know, sort of, but not necessarily. She was constant, she could be (unreasonable) at times, but most of the time you could just talk to her. Mick and the others, it wasn’t so easy. Sometimes you didn’t know what was going on and where you stood with them. If they were too high, you couldn’t talk to them.

30 Days Out: Were the members of Fleetwood Mac upset when they learned you were going to write this book?

Caillat: I don’t know … the funny thing is, I have done two DVDs about Rumours for two different companies at two different times. I interviewed the band for each one, and there was no problem. This time, though, after about two months of not getting any answers, I get a phone call saying the band has decided not to participate in the new album. I think it was because Lindsey Buckingham may want to write his own book at some point. So he doesn’t want the band helping.

30 Days Out: You had a few problems with Lindsey down the road. How was he to work with?

Caillat: He was just a real nervous, intense guy. I used to say he’d walk in and suck the fun out of the room. There was an engineer who worked on the album after Mirage – Tango In The Night – the engineer read my book and called me up. He said ‘it’s so true. Whenever everyone walked out of the room and I was alone with Lindsey, it was very uncomfortable.’ You know he’s judging you, he’s thinking about something. He’s thinking that you are thinking something about him. At that point, while we were doing Rumours, he was a nervous nellie. He’s just like that: he’d come in in the morning, always rubbing his hands together. He kept a big tape box full of pot, and he was always rolling a joint. Nonstop, rolling a joint. One time I got into an argument with Lindsey in Reno at a casino … he starting yelling at this dealer. I said you don’t treat people like that, you are just a ****ing asshole.

30 Days Out: But musically, he’s a genius …

Caillat: Absolutely, he’s a genius.

30 Days Out: When we look back at 1977 and Rumours, there really was nothing like that album or anything that even sounded like it at the time. When you were making that album, did you have a sense you were doing something really special?

Caillat: Never got that idea. We were all so tired, we were exhausted. If you go to my website and listen to some of these songs in their original form, you’d probably say this is not very good. How those songs grew over 12 months to become these amazing things, it’s truly astonishing. We didn’t know!

Caillat: A friend of mine got to listen to Rumours when it was almost done. He said “I don’t hear a hit.” And we were totally devastated. It’s astonishing to me, that album had 10 radio hits out of the 11 songs. But at the time it came out we were so tired, working 15-18 hours a day on it for the good part of an entire year. I remember at one point driving into the studio in Hollywood, and I saw Christmas decorations on Hollywood Boulevard. And I said ‘Oh, is it Christmas again already?’

30 Days Out: There must have been incredible pressure from the record company to follow up their “white album” (Fleetwood Mac from 1975) with another hit.

Caillat: Just the opposite, no pressure. The record company was sitting back smoking big cigars, they weren’t in our face. I guarantee it would not be like that if we did the same record today. With a record already sliding down the charts, they’d come in and say who the hell are these new guys? We’re going to use our ‘genius’ which they don’t have to try and make it more commercial. They would ask, why don’t you make it more like Adele?

Caillat: My daughter (singer Colbie Caillat) is going through that now. On her second album the label had a whole team, they came in … and said you should try everything, do some hip hop, do some rap stuff. I said, ‘would you like it if we dyed her hair red and got her a boob job? Would you like that too?’

30 Days Out: With that kind of atmosphere, could you make another Rumours today?

Caillat: Sure! The thing that was amazing was that budgets were big then, and costs were relatively small. We were able to spend 12 months in the studio perfecting every little bit. Analog tape was our tool at the time, it rolled on a heavy reel, and you built a song from top to bottom. When it came time to rewind the tape it may take 2-3 minutes to rewind. While you’re doing it the artist sitting in the studio at the microphone, and you end up talking, you talk about what you did, you played this, I thought you were going to go here … you get this kind of conversation which doesn’t happen in today’s digital world. Now you instantaneously you go back to the top. I have to tell my engineer don’t press play every time, so we can have that time to communicate with each other.

30 Days Out: Rumours is about to come out in a 35th anniversary edition. Are you involved with that reissue?

Caillat: No. Why not? I don’t know, it always astounds me. I’m sure it’s the money. I would have done it for nothing! There was some of that in the first two years, but as time has passed I have really nothing to do with it anymore.

30 Days Out: Going beyond the scope of the book a bit, how did you get to Tusk (1979)? It was so different than Rumours.

Caillat: Yeah, well that’s Lindsey Buckingham. I had full intentions of improving our work on Rumours and making Tusk be Rumours II . Do better on everything. But the second or third day Lindsey came in, he had a bunch of home recordings all full of distortion and grunge. Punk was getting big then, and he was into all of that. He had this big hairdo during and after Rumours …, but now he had freaked out in the shower and cut all his hair off with scissors. It was really weird looking. He said OK, we’re going to do everything different. He made me take all the edge off the guitars, saying that’s how we are going to make this record. It wasn’t what I wanted. Tusk became something totally different, kind of experimental. I said to Lindsey, so you want a darker album? There was a lot of decadence at the time … a lot of drugs, excessive living. It was tough to work with Lindsey at that point. He was just a pain in the ass.

30 Days Out: Do you think you’ll write another book, maybe about Tusk and beyond?

Caillat: You’re the fourth guy to ask me that just today! I have all the information … I went through the tape vaults, all the scans of all the track sheets, instrumentation, date they were recorded. I’ve got all that … I was ready to go, ready to write a Tusk book. In fact, I got about a quarter of the way through. But I stopped because I’m not sure there’s a market for it. This book has only had modest success … for us to get another book out it’s gonna take somebody to come in and say we can do better with a second book. Rumours is a pleasant story, it has a happy ending. I don’t think books about Tusk and Mirage are gonna have happy endings.

30 Days Out: Tell us a little about working with John McVie.

Caillat: It’s weird, John was kind of like Jekyll and Hyde, he was the greatest guy in the world. So soft spoken, then all of a sudden he’d turn on you. Mostly he’d do that when he was drinking, he was a closet drinker. Ninety percent of the time he was just great. Great bass player. He was always complaining I never had the bass loud enough. He made me very conscious of the bass, so I’d leave it up in the mix. One time Gary Katz, Steely Dan’s producer, came in and said you have the best bass sound – how do you do it? I told him, bitching! Have your bass player complain to you all the time!

30 Days Out: What about Stevie Nicks?

Caillat: Back then she was just the cutest little hippie chick. Adorable! She was funny, she had a cute giggle. She loved music, she only knew about three chords on the piano but she could make about 30 songs out of them. Her quirky side was she was always thinking about herself. I learned not to ask how she was doing that day. You’d spend 10 minutes just listening to her talk about herself.

Caillat: I always thought it was amazing, Lindsey and Stevie could never pass a mirror without looking at themselves. That’s just the kind of people they are. They are the kind of people who see a stage and want to be up there. They want the limelight. It’s kind of a double-edged sword … I’ve seen this sweet picture of Lindsey, taken right before Rumours, he’s sitting on the floor in an airport playing guitar. That guy’s gone. As they grew, as the Tusk album got really difficult for me, everybody became an asshole, really decadent, rather full of themselves. Not saying that’s a bad thing, it’s natural. But it wasn’t pleasant.

30 Days Out: How did it end with you and Fleetwood Mac?

Caillat: I had done Mirage (1982) and the live album, and they were gonna do Tango In The Night (1987). It was taking about a year to do and I just said, you know I’m gonna bow out this time. It ended great. I’m still friends with them, I think.

30 Days Out: So what’s next for you?

Caillat: I am starting a new label, Sleeping Giant records. Gonna be working with new artists, our main thrust will be artist development. And I’m going to continue working with my daughter Colbie. I can take no credit for her, she was born with this perfect voice and she loves to sing. She’s the nicest person in the world, she’d rather roll on the floor with the dogs and do just about anything else. And right now I’m working on on Spanish, Japanese and Portugese translations of Making Rumours. The audio book comes out in April, paperback comes out in April too. And I’m going to keep producing, all the time. Making the best music I can.

[redtulip]

I'm really disappointed he doesn't think there is a market for a book about Tusk, I think it would be much more interesting than Rumours, actually.

[michelej1]

And marketing wise, I think you could push the book the same way you would a book about recording Rumours. The same people are involved. As Ken said, his book doesn't focus on what went on outside of the studio romantically anyway. So, soap opera wise, a book on the Rumours recording is not going to contain more gossip than a book on the Tusk recording would. If that what casual fans would be looking for in a read.

It is a shame that 33 1/3 didn't turn out better. So much potential material.

Michele

[jellyman10]

It is a shame that 33 1/3 didn't turn out better. So much potential material.



Could not agree more. I don't mind narcissism per se in a writer, but that guy was an empty vessel. Furthermore, he's probably spavined the market for any further books for a good while to come.

[WildHearted]

I learned not to ask how she was doing that day. You’d spend 10 minutes just listening to her talk about herself.

Sounds about right. :lol:

[louielouie2000]

I'm really disappointed he doesn't think there is a market for a book about Tusk, I think it would be much more interesting than Rumours, actually.

Agreed. Tusk is when it really got interesting both musically and personally. But like Ken said, I think his Rumours book has sold pretty sparingly, there would be zero market for a Tusk book other than us handful of hardcore fans, which unfortunately are shrinking every year.

Something else I found interesting about this interview is that Ken still considers the band to be his friends, even though they've frozen him out, and he has publicly aired their dirty laundry repeatedly (he's been especially harsh on Lindsey).

[bombaysaffires]

Agreed. Tusk is when it really got interesting both musically and personally. But like Ken said, I think his Rumours book has sold pretty sparingly, there would be zero market for a Tusk book other than us handful of hardcore fans, which unfortunately are shrinking every year.

Something else I found interesting about this interview is that Ken still considers the band to be his friends, even though they've frozen him out, and he has publicly aired their dirty laundry repeatedly (he's been especially harsh on Lindsey).

I don't know, personally I think it's healthy to hear a side of reality that hasn't been sanitized by the spin-doctors of the various band members. Fame does really unattractive things to people and our beloved band members are not immune. I tend to think he's right about them-- all of them-- being a-holes as they got big and rich and famous. I remember Oprah talking about the stages she went through as she got more and more famous and wealthy....... they all really do lose their sense of what we all would call "reality" because their daily reality is soooooo different. I love Stevie to death but I don't believe she has much of a clue about every day real life of non-famous people at all. Lindsey now with kids has to be confronted with 'real life' problems, not just rock star problems... but... these people do not live a daily life or have the daily responsibilities that any of us do nor have they for a long, long time. Doesn't make them bad people, just different. I find it weirdly healthy to hear some of the true dirt sometimes. But that's just me.

[seekerj]

Now that I finished the book finally, I'm wondering about Silver Springs and if the book might explain why there are two mixes of Silver Springs.

To my ears, the choruses on the two mixes sound completely different. I actually prefer the single mix because the harmonies are just so great; it's harder to hear on the other mix with the lead vocal's being so much more prominent.

Ken talks about mixing the song in one studio when they mixed the Go Your Own Way single. Then later, he talks about mixing Silver Springs again in another studio when they were mixing the whole album. He specifically mentions that the second time, the background vocals on the tag were worked on.

Is that why the version on the Rumours reissue (and on Crystal Visions) is different than the 45 single as far as the background vocals? When the reissue first came out, for some reason, I thought they remixed it recently specifically for the reissue. But maybe that mix is actually from 1977? But then again, the DVD-Audio and "The Chain" boxset have the 45 single mix, which would seem weird if the "album mix" was available, why would they go with the "single" mix on those?

I would just like to know if the mix on the reissue is old or "new".

Is Ken still hanging out here? I hope he reads this and can provide an answer!

[redtulip]

Now that I finished the book finally, I'm wondering about Silver Springs and if the book might explain why there are two mixes of Silver Springs.

To my ears, the choruses on the two mixes sound completely different. I actually prefer the single mix because the harmonies are just so great; it's harder to hear on the other mix with the lead vocal's being so much more prominent.

Ken talks about mixing the song in one studio when they mixed the Go Your Own Way single. Then later, he talks about mixing Silver Springs again in another studio when they were mixing the whole album. He specifically mentions that the second time, the background vocals on the tag were worked on.

Is that why the version on the Rumours reissue (and on Crystal Visions) is different than the 45 single as far as the background vocals? When the reissue first came out, for some reason, I thought they remixed it recently specifically for the reissue. But maybe that mix is actually from 1977? But then again, the DVD-Audio and "The Chain" boxset have the 45 single mix, which would seem weird if the "album mix" was available, why would they go with the "single" mix on those?

I would just like to know if the mix on the reissue is old or "new".

Is Ken still hanging out here? I hope he reads this and can provide an answer!

If you are on facebook, he's active on there and you could probably ask him there if he doesn't respond here.

[michelej1]

The Man Who Recorded Fleetwood Mac Writes A Tell-All
Stories, truths, and rumors about Rumours from Ken Caillat
Posted on 5/24/2013 6:42:00 PM by Sonya Singh, Los Angeles Magazine

http://www.lamag.com/laculture/culturefilesblog/2013/05/24/the-man-who-recorded-fleetwood-mac-writes-a-tell-all

Thirty-seven years ago, a promising British-American band convened at the Record Plant in Sausalito, California to create their second album. The result of these efforts was Rumours, an LP that would catapult Fleetwood Mac to fame, win Album of the Year at the 1977 Grammys, and nearly tear them apart. Through every studio outburst, every late night jam, and every break-up—the marriage of band members John and Christine McVie, the partnership of Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Knicks, and Mick Fleetwood’s marriage—the group’s audio engineers turned co-producers, Richard Dashut and Ken Caillat, watched from behind the studio glass along with Caillat’s dog, Scooter. Caillat released his memoir about the experience, Making Rumours, last year, just before the band announced an expanded reissue of the album and their 2013 tour, which hits the Hollywood Bowl tomorrow.

“Rumours was such a remarkable event that I stumbled into, and I wanted to share that with people,” says Caillat as we sit in a recording space at the Village Studios. “The book is really just a story of a boy and his dog. It just happens to be set into a recording studio. All the crying, the fights—I had no idea what Scooter and I were walking into.”

Rumours has sold more than 40 millions copies sold worldwide and earned spots on dozens of top-100 lists, but something sets it apart from the other 99 classic albums on those lists.

“Most of the crew involved are asked about it even today. It’s like we were all survivors of a plane crash, bonded by it,” Caillat explains. “I have a friend who says, ‘Ken, it was over 30 years ago. Why don’t you let it go?’ Not me. Every time I’m introduced to somebody, it’s ‘This is the guy who did Rumours.’ I thought, mistakenly enough, that if I wrote about it, I could stop talking about it.”

Caillat doesn’t hold back. He writes about the time an enraged Buckingham nearly strangling him, about the drugs in the studio, and about things he may have otherwise left unsaid around his daughter, Grammy-winner Colbie Caillat. His aim, though, was never to scandalize.

“The original publisher wanted shock and awe. They wanted a tell-all,” says Caillat. “If John was drinking and I wrote that he walked into the room, they sent me a rewrite saying John ‘staggered’ into the room. I said no. I do feel bad about some of the stories I told about Lindsey, but I made a vow when I wrote the book that I was not going to hold secrets back or speculate on anything that didn’t happen in front of me. I tattle on me as much as anybody else.”

He also recounts, with amazing clarity, the haunting quality of a perfect Stevie Nicks vocal, the genius of Lindsay Buckingham’s guitar style, the beauty of hearing Christine McVie alone at her piano, the ease with which John McVie wrote an iconic bass riff, and the antics of the group’s fatherly leader, Mick Fleetwood.

The qualities that made the album a hit in 1977 are striking a chord with millenials, who have latched onto Fleetwood Mac and particularly its magnum opus. Just as The Strokes and The Libertines pointed young listeners toward foundational punk-rock pioneers, today’s hook-heavy guitar groups may be responsible for Fleetwood’s spike in popularity.

“I have to think it’s the words,” Caillat conjectures. With songs that were written in the studio, Rumours feels like a diary of its own recording process. “When Lindsey sang, ‘You can go your own way,’ he was singing that to Stevie. Even though they agreed to put aside their breakup for the sake of the record, it wasn’t as easily done. Every day, we played those songs and poured salt in those wounds. That pain was completely painted into the layers of sound we worked so hard to create.”

After the success of Rumours, Caillat found himself in Fleetwood Mac’s shrinking inner circle. He went on to produce their next two albums, live shows, and a box set, but for all his history with the band, you won’t find him at the Bowl tomorrow. Even he hadn’t seen the band perform countless times over the years, Fleetwood Mac’s enduring fame means his chances of getting tickets are the same as anyone else's. (He was once the last person waiting outside to see them after a show.) It may not be fair, but he doesn’t mind.

“Lord knows they deserve the fame and accolades they’ve got and I’m happy to just have been part of it," Caillat smiles. He also got the ultimate book review. "Christine did call me after the book came out to tell me she loved it. She said she loved how I portrayed her and hoped that’s the way she’ll be remembered.”

Caillat is working on a book about recording Tusk, the follow up to Rumours. Fleetwood Mac plays the Hollywood Bowl tomorrow and the Anaheim Honda Center on May 28. They will return to play Staples Center in July.

[MacShadowsBall]

He also recounts, with amazing clarity, the haunting quality of a perfect Stevie Nicks vocal, the genius of Lindsay Buckingham’s guitar style, the beauty of hearing Christine McVie alone at her piano, the ease with which John McVie wrote an iconic bass riff, and the antics of the group’s fatherly leader, Mick Fleetwood.

Perfectly amazing description of Fleetwood Mac! :cool:

[michelej1]

Salon by Joe Daly, 6-3-2013
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/03/true_stories_behind_fleetwood_macs_rumours_must_be_read_to_be_believed_partner/singleton/

This article originally appeared on The Weeklings.

A TEAM OF GRIZZLED TINSELTOWN SCRIPT WRITERS could not have conceived a story so fantastic. In fact, when one hears the setup, the typical reaction involves a head shake and the words, “No way.”

In 1976, Fleetwood Mac were poised for an ignominious demise. Their latest album—the first to feature the brilliant but mercurial duo of Lindsey Buckingham and vocalist Stevie Nicks—had failed to gain much traction out of the gate, and as the band prepared to sequester themselves in a studio in Saulsalito to record the follow-up, a cavalcade of spectacular disasters gathered on the horizon.

First, there was the in-fighting. Although Stevie and Lindsey were a couple when they had joined the band a year prior, by the Bicentennial, a bitter split saw the former lovers reduced to incessant volleys of petty and venomous attacks on one another. Meanwhile, Christine and John McVie were in the process of divorcing and drummer Mick Fleetwood, unbeknownst to the others, stood on verge of losing his own marriage when his wife back in England approached her tolerance for playing second fiddle to his band.

On top of these combustible relations, Fleetwood Mac were developing an increasing affinity for drugs and alcohol, adding kerosene to a fire that had already caught far too much kindle to be controlled. Infighting, jealousy and occasionally violent outbursts became the norm at a time when the band were preparing to essentially hole up together for an entire year, writing songs, recording an album and beginning the supporting tour.

Adding even more pressure, and what they could not see at the time, was that their previous record would eventually take off while they were recording the new album. While admittedly welcome news by most estimations, the development also invested their new album with heightened anxiety as the expectations of their record company and a growing fan base reached critical mass.

The odds on the band even surviving had reached lottery-sized proportions, and the chances of them releasing an album worth more than the vinyl on which it was stamped were even longer.

Asked to conduct this symphony of dysfunction was a twenty-nine year-old kid named Ken Caillat, an up-and-coming Hollywood recording engineer who had never even heard of Fleetwood Mac until he was first invited to work with them that year.



Easygoing, friendly and occasionally mischievous, Ken proved the perfect guy for the job, somehow navigating the acidic relations between the musicians and not simply recording their songs, but coaxing from each of them their most brilliant output to date, and arguably, ever. Ken would eventually be named the album’s producer, and that album would become Rumours, the Grammy Award-winning sonic masterpiece that has sold over forty million copies worldwide.

Published in 2012, Making Rumours sees Ken (whose daughter is Grammy-winning singer/songwriter Colbie Caillat), stepping out of the control room to tell the story behind that record and in doing so, lifting the lid on one of the most compelling and improbable stories in classic rock.

I sat down with Ken to discuss his book and some of the stories behind the stories.

Joe Daly: Rumours has been out for thirty-five years. What inspired you to finally tell the story behind it?

Ken Caillat: Obviously a thing like this takes a bit of time and effort, which I didn’t have. Plus I think I had so many stories in my head, and people were always asking me to tell them, or introducing me like, “This is Ken. Hey, tell them the story about…” I’d say, “Wait, how do you know that?” They’d say, “Oh, you told me about that a long time ago.” (laughing) Somebody finally suggested I write a book about it and I thought, “No, I’m not going to do a book.” They said, “What if we get an agent for you?” and I just said, “I’m not going to do any work on this. Nobody’s going to be interested in that.” So this one person found an agent and the agent flew out from New York and said he wanted to do the book, so there you go.

But before that happened, I started to think that maybe it was a good idea, because there were a lot of stories and I didn’t want to forget them and at some point I would. I experienced something very unique that very few people do, and I wanted people to know exactly how a big-time record is done by a big-time band. It’s not like you see on the TV; it’s a hell of a lot of hard work and a lot of personalities going in there. It’s like creating Egyptian cotton, with like a thousand-count thread, you know? All these fibers, these sounds, are woven together to make this intricate fabric of sound, and that’s what we did. Back then was when we had the time to do it; we weren’t rushed.

Also, part of the story is that back then we only had twenty-four tracks. Today you can have unlimited tracks with ProTools. I tell people, “If you want to make a big-time record, just lock off the ProTools rig to twenty-four tracks and you’re going to find out real quick that you have to start making decisions, and everybody in the room, and in the band, is going to have to get involved in the decisions.” You’re always combining with twenty-four tracks; you’re always making the final acoustic picture.

You reveal throughout the story that each song is packed with layers of ornamentations and melodies. Was there ever a concern that these songs might be fairly difficult to play live?

No. I mean, we weren’t like the Beatles, who had these crazy horns. Basically we had a drum track, we had a bass track, we had a couple guitar tracks and we had a keyboard track or two. Maybe we had a Rhodes and an organ. We had Stevie’s vocal, Lindsey’s vocal, Christine’s vocal and maybe some background vocals. But all that was attainable and it really wasn’t an issue.

The level of detail is at times staggering. For example, you’ll talk about recording a track and mention that you moved it from the right to the left speaker. How in the world did you recall these decisions with such specificity?

Well, I did it like a thousand times, you know? And I had all the track sheets, so I could look at the track sheets and tell you what I would have done. So if I had the guitar on the left I knew I had to have something opposite to that. I was very much into hard panning. I like to make the mixes as wide as they could be, so I might have one guitar on full left and another guitar on full right, so they’re opposing each other, or an opposing keyboard on the opposite side of the guitar. Like the Beatles did—big, wide mixes.

What was the greater challenge at the time—resolving the technical issues or navigating the personalities of the musicians?

Oh, the personalities. The technical stuff, that was a luxury. For the technical stuff they gave me all the time in the world to make whatever I wanted and to experiment and to try to make the best out of the music. But the whole breakup of all the band members, and the crying and swearing and, “I hate you,” and “How could you cheat on me?” That was tough. I’m not really good with words in situations like that. I didn’t put my arm around them and say, “Oh, you’ll be alright.” I’d probably say to Stevie and Linsdey, “Hey you guys, why don’t you take that outside? Why don’t you go and have a coffee somewhere and let the other band members who aren’t fighting work on the song.” I would be trying to avoid the conflict to get them out of the room.

Every time I talk about this book, I recall more information about what happened. Their previous album (known as “the White Album”), was just starting to climb the charts when we started making Rumours. It didn’t top the charts until the ninth month that we were recording Rumours. That never happens now. Now the record comes out and it’s milked to death and then they rush you into the studio because they don’t want the band to be forgotten. But you’re never already working on a hit record when you’re (charting).

When you finally sat down to write this story, did you have any reservations about revealing some of these less-than-flattering behaviors of the band?

I really didn’t. The thing was, it’s a great album and I wanted people to know how a real record is made. The fact is, they’re all geniuses and I tried to compliment them as much as possible. I believe I tattled as much on me as anybody else. Basically my rule was that I wasn’t going to talk about it if it didn’t happen in front of me and it didn’t affect the session. So what I heard they might have been doing in a hotel room at night wasn’t my call, but what happened in front of me, that was my call, or if it affected the session, that was my call.

What’s your relationship with the musicians today?

Well, we’ve all moved apart, so I don’t have emails on Stevie and Lindsey, but I do talk with Mick and John every once in awhile. Christine called me a few months ago and thanked me for writing the book. She said she loved how I portrayed her and she said, “That’s how I want to be remembered.” She really enjoyed the book and she had forgotten all those details about how hard we all worked and she said, “Quite honestly Ken, you’ve kind of put the passion back in music for me.” So that was great.

I’ve talked to Mick and talked to John, and John still sends me congratulations on Colbie and so does Mick, but we don’t talk that much.

Other members of the band, who have enjoyed variously-successful solo careers, tend to outshine Mick’s musicianship, yet you point out that even in 1976, he was a richly-talented timekeeper. What do you think was his greatest strength as a musician?

I don’t know how to describe it, but he’s just an amazing drummer. He’s got feel. Most other drummers sit there and they can be really good—the pros can be really good—but he has this feel. He was a little bit behind the beat, but it was just enough that it felt aggressive and laid-back at the same time. Really powerful toms, great beat…I mean, maybe I’m using too many words to describe the fact that he’s just an amazing drummer.

One of the more delicate story lines in the book pertains to you and the two relationships you had at the time, which had little bit of overlap. Were you reluctant to bring that story public?

Nah. Not really. I mean, I talked to both of the women and asked if it was OK and I think they were kind of flattered to be heroines in the book. But I was concerned about my daughters. How would they feel about me sleeping around, and blah, blah blah? Then I thought that I’d like to know the intimate details about my dad. What were my mom and dad like when they were growing up in their twenties? What did they do? It’s probably good to let (my daughters) know that I’m not a saint or an old fuddy duddy, you know?

I just said, “The rules are that if I’m going to tell this story, I’m going to tell the truth as best as I can.”

What was the reaction from your daughters? Were they supportive?

(laughing) Yeah, when they finally read it! My one daughter just said, I think six months ago, “I finally finished the book, Dad, and I loved it.” But I remember Colbie was on a plane with somebody else and she was reading it, and the other person was reading it too, and they were almost on the same page and the other person goes, “Your dad did coke!” I feel good though. My mom read it. She said, “I didn’t know you were using drugs. I knew you did marijuana, I didn’t know you did drugs.” She didn’t like the crabs thing. She said, “I didn’t like the crabs story!”

That freaked me out, too.

Well I didn’t like it either, but I thought it really showed the depth of what happens. I mean, it was crazy. Coming home in the morning and there’s three women in your bed. It wasn’t even like, “What are you guys doing here?” It was more like, “Move over,” you know?

When Colbie decided on a career in music, did you have any professional advice that you felt you needed to pass on to her?

Yeah, you’re gonna be surprised what it is. She hadn’t decided what she was doing. She was just singing all the time and her older sister was going to college and she wanted to be an actress, so we were paying for head shots and acting classes and all this other stuff. So Colbie was just singing and I said, “Well if that’s what you want to do, I think we should get you some voice lessons. I want to make sure you learn how to breathe properly and how to use your diaphragm properly so you don’t damage your voice.”

A while later, I came home and I said, “I was just thinking that if you want to sing, Colbie, what are you going to sing? You don’t play an instrument, you don’t write any songs, so that means we’re going to have to buy somebody else’s songs. That’s going to be problematic because when you’re buying songs, the best songs are kept for hit artists and you won’t be a hit artist, so it will be hard to get you a good song. So the only choice for you, if you want to be a singer, is to take some instrument lessons and learn how to play and I promise you, the moment that you put your hands on an instrument and create a chord, your voice will respond with a corresponding note and word and your heart will fill out the rest of the words and you’ll write a song. I’ll back it up with a hundred dollars every time you write a song.”

I taught her what modern song structure is, where the verse tells a story and the chorus is the payoff of the story and the bridge is the breathing space between. She took her first guitar lesson and came home and wrote her first song. So I was right. And surprisingly enough, the big payoff for her dad was that she was doing an interview one day and I was there in the room, and she said, “My dad was right,” and she told them exactly what I said. How often does that happen where the parent got it right? (laughing)

Is there anything you miss about working in the Seventies? Anything about the industry or your specific job?

Well, yeah. In the Seventies there were a lot less cars on the streets and it was a great time for musicians. You could go down to the Troubadour and you’d see Linda Ronstadt sitting there or Glenn Fry of the Eagles hanging out. It was very open. It was definitely a period of innocence, I guess.

And the record companies had big budgets. We had an unlimited amount of time to make Rumours. I saw Stevie a couple years ago, right before she was about to start working on that album, and she said, “Ken, can you believe that I have thirteen days in the studio? That’s all my budget allows.” We had 365. Well, that’s all we used, because we didn’t have any limitations at all.

In addition to the critical acclaim it has received, your book has inspired a renewed interest in an album that has already sold forty-million copies. Did the experience of writing this book fulfill your expectations?

The bottom line is that they’re a great band, but we did the work and that’s the important thing. We all have flaws and we all have to figure out how to deal with them and we all go in and try to paint our canvas the best way we can and hopefully nobody finds out that we really don’t know what we’re talking about. We’re doing the best we can. That’s what I wanted to tell people. This is the great American story.

These guys persevered through breaking up—all of them—and people don’t get the fact that the songs were about the breakups, and just because they were able to bite their lips and deal with that, they still had to listen to those songs and those lyrics for the next year while we were making the record. Like “Go Your Own Way,” it still makes Lindsey mad, I’m sure now. And it still hurts Stevie, but they still have to sing it, and I think it’s pretty good that they were still willing to put all their other trouble aside and say, “This is our job, we’re musicians, let’s put everything else aside and make this record, because that’s our job. It’ll be better for us if we can do it.” And I want people to know that.

Ken, thanks so much for your time.

Thanks, Joe.

[michelej1]

La Jolla Light by Pat Sherman, June 4, 2013

http://www.lajollalight.com/2013/06/03/producer-of-iconic-fleetwood-mac-album-to-speak-at-warwick%E2%80%99s-june-6/

What: Book signing with Ken Caillat (producer of Fleetwood Mac’s ‘Rumours’)
When: 7:30 p.m. Thursday, June 6
Where: Warwick’s, 7812 Girard Ave.
Contact: (858) 454-0347, warwicks.com

Ken Caillat says he’s thankful for the year he spent producing Fleetwood Mac’s Grammy Award-winning pop rock masterpiece, “Rumours.” However, more than 35 years later he still finds it hard to sit back and enjoy hits such as “Dreams” or “Don’t Stop” without recalling the well-documented drama, tension and drug use the band was caught up in while recording the album in 1976.

“There was Champagne thrown in people’s faces, yelling, screaming and storming out of the room — and a lot of tears,” recalled Caillat, who has also produced albums for Harry Chapin, Michael Jackson, the Beach Boys and, more recently, his daughter, Grammy Award-winning pop star Colbie Caillat.

“There was a point where we wondered, are we actually going to be able to finish the record? Are people going to be able to hold it together? Are they going to want to hold it together?

“I personally had thousands of hours invested in the project and we (Caillat and co-producer Richard Dashut) were concerned that all this great work we’d done might just disappear.”

Caillat will be at Warwick’s bookstore 7:30 p.m. June 6 to read from his new book, “Making Rumours: The Inside Story of the Classic Fleetwood Mac Album.”

Released Feb. 4, 1977 (less than a month after it was finished), “Rumours” would go on to sell 44 million copies and include the chart-topping hits, “You Make Loving Fun,” “Go Your Own Way” and “The Chain.”

The lyrics, written almost entirely on the spot during sessions, reflected the failing personal relationships between band members, most notably the breakup of guitarist Lindsey Buckingham and vocalist Stevie Nicks, and of vocalist-keyboardist Christine McVie and bassist-husband John McVie.

“Everybody wanted to break up with their significant other, for one reason or another, and it all kind of came out in a therapy session with me in the room,” Caillat said.

However, amidst the acrimony and mayhem, there was plenty of magic, Caillat said, including Nicks’ haunting howl at the end of the song “Gold Dust Woman,” recorded while Nicks was twirling around the studio with her headphones on.

“We sat there for two or three hours (waiting) for her to get in the mood, the spirit,” Callait recalled. “I believe we turned the lights down and lit candles around the studio. She had a little bit of pot, a little bit of Courvoisier — and I’m sure a little coke, too.”

Of the band members, Caillat said Buckingham lit up the most.

“As I wrote in the book, Lindsey was a very nervous guy. … He’d continuously, nonstop be rolling a joint … maybe only take one puff and put it down and then five minutes later light it up again. Most of the rest would only do it every two hours or something — just a little bit. … They were always looking for the right headspace to be creative and spontaneous.”

Though the sessions, largely recorded at Record Plant Studios in Sausalito, Calif., were constantly on the verge of derailing, during the midst of a particularly heavy “crying session,” the band’s manager phoned to offer some persuasion.

Fleetwood Mac’s previous, self-title album (“Rhiannon,” “Over My Head,” “Landslide”) was making its way up the charts, and their manager promised a big payoff if the band could keep it together to finish “Rumours.”

“He said, ‘If you’re able to duplicate the success of this record, you’ll probably be guaranteed superstars and be rich for life. … They looked at each other and said, ‘Holy crap … I get it.’ They all kind of said, basically, let’s put all our suffering and differences aside and we’ll make a great record” — and dissolve Fleetwood Mac after it’s finished, Caillat said.

However, he added, “It wasn’t quite so easy to do, because the lyrics were all about the breakup. So, every now and again, somebody would be working on a song and one of the lyrics would (sting) and another fight would break out.”

However, Caillat said, that familiar human drama “was embedded in the music so deeply that 35 years later it still resonates with people. It’s probably why the record sold 44 million copies.”

Despite working 14-15 hour days, nearly seven days a week, recording “Rumours” was also a transformative experience for the young Caillat, who was hired as an engineer, then eventually given more duties and creative license, eventually being granted a portion of the album royalties.

“Partly why I wrote the book is because it was such an amazing year for me — being at the right place at the right time and watching this amazing music go down,” he said.

The book is written in diary format, allowing the reader to follow the band through the recording process.

“I wanted people to feel what it (was like) … to sit with the real band every day —they come in, they’re cranky, they’re hung over, whatever, they’ve got to work and they hope they have some magic that day.”

The follow-up
Despite the band’s promise to “go their own ways,” two years later Caillat and Dashut were back in the studio working on Fleetwood Mac’s follow-up album, “Tusk.”

So, had the band mellowed or gained perspective during those two years?

“No, just the opposite,” Caillat confided, noting that the now affected rock stars each arrived at the studio with personal assistants and their preexisting grudges.

“The relationship issues were still there,” Caillat said. “John could never forgive Christine, … Lindsey would always be on Stevie’s case. …

“They had made a lot of money off of ‘Rumors’ and they were now superstars and there was a decadence factor. They all had their own personal stash of whatever their favorite drugs were and we had lobster brought in every night for dinner and built our own million-dollar studio to record. Christine had to have her Pouilly-Fuissé wine or the session would end and she’d be furious.”

To make matters worse, Buckingham demanded complete creative control, threatening to leave Fleetwood Mac if the rest of the members didn’t follow his lead, Caillat said.

“Lindsey decided he didn’t want to do another record like ‘Rumours.’ He was looking for a new self and he didn’t know who he wanted to be. … He wanted everything to sound grungy.

“That record was basically made under a hostage situation, if you will, loosely speaking. It was very strange, just very decadent,” including the nearly impossible task of recording the USC Trojan marching band at Dodger Stadium for the album’s title track (Mick Fleetwood’s brainchild).

“Actually, it’s a terrific album but at the time I had my doubts,” Caillat said. “I was so embarrassed of the sound. It was just so grungy. It took every bit of effort we could to make it clean and enjoyable.”

[michelej1]

The Examiner, December 27, 2014

http://www.examiner.com/article/flee...making-rumours

Ever try listening to a Fleetwood Mac song and not singing along? It can’t be done. For me, Fleetwood Mac are memories of being a kid, car rides and Stevie Nicks’ voice over the radio-airwaves. During the early 80s when MTV emerged, Fleetwood Mac’s music videos circulated all across the music channel. “Gypsy,” off of the band’s 13th studio album, “Mirage,” became the first “World Premiere Video” on MTV in 1982, and images of Stevie Nicks’ twirling are forever engrained in my mind. In later years, working in the radio industry, I would become more familiar with the band’s earlier music and enamored with its charm. Fleetwood Mac rendered an image of complete synergy, as if each member were born into the group, and from it they released music that was deeply rooted in majestic melodies, that has transcended generations.

In March 2014, Fleetwood Mac announced that they would be going on a 2014-2015 tour, titled, “On With The Show.” This tour would include all of the original members, which meant the return of keyboardist, Christine McVie, who quit the group in 1998 after three decades. To fully appreciate the significance of this “coming home” you have to delve into the band’s history. During the pivotal years surrounding Fleetwood Mac's momentous 1977 album, “Rumours,” coproducer of the record, Ken Caillat, documented his experience working with the group in the book entitled, “Making Rumours: The Inside Story of the Classic Fleetwood Mac Album.”

Music documentaries have a universal appeal, the narrative stories take you inside the striving creators and you envision their dire hopes and dreams of trying to make it. Often these stories are told through the eyes of the musician, it’s rare when the experience is shared from another perspective, a viewpoint from someone that is equally connected to the music - such as the audio engineer and producer. The book, “Making Rumours,” is not only a behind the scenes look into the making of the phenomenon that was “Rumours,” but is expressed from a very personal voice whose hands crafted each song through layers upon layers of many moving parts.

In “Making Rumours,” Caillat skillfully details the formation of threading together a song to where you can visualize him in the control room carefully manipulating different sounds and acoustics. Easy to grasp that a job of a recording engineer is key in the mixing and reproduction of sound but to be responsible for completely changing the direction of a song based on your ear is a talent all on its own. “I had actually played the console as if it were a musical instrument. In fact, I learned that it was. I almost felt as if I was one of the musicians in the band,” Caillat said when mixing “Go Your Own Way.” As I read each chapter I felt the intimate production that went into each song, the producers were guiding the musicians to bring each track to life by opening it up and stretching it to its ultimate potential, they were a team.

“Making Rumours” shares a similar vibe to the film documentary, “Sound City,” directed by Dave Grohl. The book opens the doors inside the studios of the 70s and you feel how each recording space created its own unique extension of sound, “Recording studios back then were designed to feel like a cocoon,” Caillat describes in the book. For Caillat and his coproducer, Richard Dashut, the studios were their haven for upwards to a year while composing from start to finish, rarely getting days off. Secluded from the world and thrown into close quarters for months with a group of rising musicians in the 70s you’d have to imagine there’d be some drugs, drama and good times, and there was. Family ties bonded and broken, and sadly, once success creeps in, the camaraderie once shared is all but forgotten through the years. But “Making Rumours” does not harp on the negative aftermath of stardom, perhaps that tale will be told in another book, yet it’s the story of a young aspiring recording engineer who just wanted to be good at his job, respected by the people he worked with and how he landed an opportunity of a lifetime working on the third largest selling album of all time.

I met up with Ken Caillat and my love of music, its history and the curiosity of the old studio days prompted me to ask the Grammy-winning producer, “What is the biggest difference recording in analog versus digital as far as the “feel” of the whole studio experience?” Caillat responded, “Digital Pro-Tools are so fast — there’s no rewind time, no time to talk to the artist and tell them what you liked, keep the doubts out of their mind.” “We need to slow the process down, give more time to digest and feel it.” We talked about making records today and how most musicians record at home, not because they want to but because it’s cheaper. Caillat suggested that if young artists want to record themselves, record at home - but then go to a studio and mix, sounds like a good compromise that would prevent so many studios from closing their doors. “Studios need to offer something that you can’t get at home, like really great reverb, really great speakers,” added Caillat.

Thirty plus years after the release of “Rumours,” Caillat watched Fleetwood Mac perform at The Forum in Los Angeles, not from the side of the stage or with a backstage pass but as a regular fan in the crowd. I asked Caillat, “So how did they sound?” Caillat replied, “They sounded great but it was like I fell asleep for thirty years and woke up and everybody was so old.” Caillat added, in regards to the music business, it’s sad when touring becomes “a grab for the money” and that most musicians in groups don’t get a along; they go on tour and they’re “stuck with each other, it’s like they can’t get a divorce.” Caillat isn’t especially close with the members of Fleetwood Mac anymore implying that the musicians are not accessible through their herds of assistants. The former Fleetwood Mac producer has managed to keep in touch with the group’s co-founder, Mick Fleetwood, and still talks to coproducer, Dashut, which is comforting as you get to know him in the book and follow their friendship through the making of the record.

Today, Caillat keeps busy as the CEO of Sleeping Giant Music Group, a pop and rock label in Los Angeles and heads a production facility in West Los Angeles, Village Studio E, inside Village Recorder Studios. In January 2015, Caillat will open a school for young adults interested in pursuing careers as performers, songwriters, engineers, producers and music industry professionals and his daughter, singer-songwriter Colbie Caillat, will hold the first session.

For more information on Ken Caillat visit his website KenCaillat.com and to grab your copy of “Making Rumours: The Inside Story of the Classic Fleetwood Mac Album” goto MakingRumours.com.

[elle]

Thirty plus years after the release of “Rumours,” Caillat watched Fleetwood Mac perform at The Forum in Los Angeles, not from the side of the stage or with a backstage pass but as a regular fan in the crowd. I asked Caillat, “So how did they sound?” Caillat replied, “They sounded great but it was like I fell asleep for thirty years and woke up and everybody was so old.” Caillat added, in regards to the music business, it’s sad when touring becomes “a grab for the money” and that most musicians in groups don’t get a along; they go on tour and they’re “stuck with each other, it’s like they can’t get a divorce.” Caillat isn’t especially close with the members of Fleetwood Mac anymore implying that the musicians are not accessible through their herds of assistants. The former Fleetwood Mac producer has managed to keep in touch with the group’s co-founder, Mick Fleetwood, and still talks to coproducer, Dashut, which is comforting as you get to know him in the book and follow their friendship through the making of the record.

except regular fans in the crowd pay beaucoup moolah for their seats, while Ken got comped tickets from the band and was sitting in family and friends section.

[michelej1]

Making "Rumours" - The Inside Story Of Classic Fleetwood Mac Album

http://www.smmirror.com/articles/News/Making-Rumours---The-Inside-Story-Of-Classic-Fleetwood-Mac-Album/43080

Posted Apr. 11, 2015, 10:34 am

By Mary Avila

In February 1976, Fleetwood Mac convened at the Record Plant in Sausalito, California, with hired engineers Ken Caillat and Richard Dashut. The more technically adept Caillat was responsible for most of the engineering and producing of the band's eleventh studio album "Rumours."

Caillat, now a Santa Monica resident, said he nor anyone else could ever imagine what the future held for this album.

The tension was so immense, with two couples breaking up. Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buchkingham had a screaming match while recording the song “You Make Loving Fun” while Christine and John McVie were not speaking to each other.

Caillat’s ability for a particular sound is amazing. He felt that Christine Mcvie’s “Songbird” should be recorded in a concert hall’s ambiance. This was recorded in an all-night session at Zellerbach Auditorium, across San Francisco Bay in Berkeley.

But, through everything, the music was heartfelt. The intense emotions and expertise of Caillat made Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours" album one of a kind.

First of all, I want to thank you for this interview. It is such an honor to interview an award winning producer. You produced three albums from Fleetwood Mac, but also Paul McCartney, Pink Floyd, and Michael Jackson just to name a few major artists.

Thank you, Mary.

What inspired you to write your book after so many years had passed?

I actually wrote it because my friends kept repeating my stories of the events of making "Rumours" to their friends and eventually one of them told a New York City literary agent. He contacted me and said he was interested in representing me in shopping a book about my experiences and stories making "Rumours."

In your book you told numerous stories of drugs, drinking, and fights between couples. What was the worst experience in making this album during that year? And were there a few bad experiences?

There weren't very many bad experience except sleep deprivation, but I think the worse thing was when the master multi-track tape wore out in the middle of recording and we thought we were going to lose the entire album. Fortunately a miracle occurred and allowed us to save the album.

You produced the albums "Rumours," "Tusk," and "Mirage" for Fleetwood Mac. Do you feel that "Rumours" was the most excruciating album to produce?

Not at all, as we all got wealthier and more spoiled, life became more intolerable.

Now, you have known all of the members of Fleetwood Mac. Do you think they have changed from the "Rumours" days?

Absolutely now that they're older, wiser and sober they are enjoying more their success.

How do you feel about the music industry of now, compared to the music industry of 40 years ago?

Artists are getting young and more talented now but the labels are fighting digital piracy and a shorter audience attention span. So the industry wide sales are down and labels take fewer chance and want more assurances from artists on their success potential, leaving a growing pool of unsigned talent. My label Sleeping Giant Music Group was built to help the many unsigned artists.

You have quite an ear for mixing the tracks. What was missing in "Gold Dust Woman." And what did you do to get that sound for the track?

Well I think the song hinged on the keys and the cowbell and of course Stevie's vocals. Ultimately, we took it to the weird/spooky side with things like an electric harpsichord thru an effects box called a jet phaser. We actually had to order it, to make gold dust spookier, mick actually played the keyboard like a percussion instrument. We had to put marker tape on the keys that would be in the songs key so he wouldn't play a bad note. After that we turned down the lights and let Stevie howl like a banshee in the end of the song. And we bought some large panes of glass and bought Mick overalls and a hammer and goggles, put him on a ladder with the glass and had him swing away!

Your daughter Colbie is such an amazing singer. Are there any plans for a concert tour in the future for Colbie?

Thank you. My daughter will be touring throughout the spring and summer on and off while writing new songs for her next album and also writing songs for movies.

Will you be writing another book soon?

Yes, I'm considering write the full sorry about the magic and dysfunction and tension of making the two follow-up albums to "Rumours." I also have a sci-fi planned and a children's book about music.

Ken are you still friends with Fleetwood Mac?

Yes, but we are all so busy, I did go to their recent concert, On with The Show. They were excellent as usual.

Thank you Ken, I am sure everyone can’t wait for you new book.

Thank you Mary, I will let you know when it is published.

[michelej1]

[They don't help people. That's not what they do:laugh:]

https://30daysout.wordpress.com/tag/stevie-nicks/

30 Days Out Interview: Ken Caillat on January 14, 2013 by 30daysout

by Denny Angelle

Fleetwood Mac was one of the most successful and unique rock bands of the 1970s. After toiling for nearly a decade as a journeyman British blues-rock band, the Mac exploded into mainstream consciousness when they added American pop rockers Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks to the lineup.

The peak came in 1977 when Fleetwood Mac released the album Rumours, which yielded four Top 10 singles, sold more than 40 million copies and won a Grammy Award for Album of the Year. The band took almost a year to cut Rumours and while doing so lived a rock and roll soap opera marked by divorce, infidelity and constant drug use, all of which threatened to tear the band apart.

Buckingham and Nicks were no longer a couple, and they wrote thinly disguised songs about their failed relationship. Christine and John McVie were in the throes of their own divorce, as was drummer Mick Fleetwood. And all the while, the drugs and booze flowed freely.

Ken Caillat, as one of the producers of Rumours, had a ringside seat to the drama. He’s written a book, Making Rumours: The Inside Story of the Classic Fleetwood Mac Album, that pulls back the curtain on the making of this masterpiece rock album. We caught up with him after he visited Austin to talk about his book at the Texas Book Festival.

30 Days Out: How did you come to write the book?

Caillat: It was a time and an event that means a lot to many people. It was extraordinary to be a part of this album. I’m one of the only people who can write about how this great album was made. It’s kind of my responsibility to tell the story, I wish somebody had done that with the Beatles. While we were making Rumours I wanted to try and jot it all down, and I have extensive records and track sheets of everything we did. Not only was I a producer, I was also a kind of documentarian, I knew the facts of everything we did and when we did it.

Caillat: Actually when I began writing the book I had the intention of going to the band and getting their perspective. So I started trying to set up the interviews with the band, telling them I wanted to make sure it’s 100 percent correct and accurate. And after a while I got this phone call … They declined! They said they don’t help people, that’s not what they do.

30 Days Out: What does that mean?

Caillat: You got me!

30 Days Out: We really like the way you did it, sticking only to your point of view. You really didn’t need the band, right?

Caillat: Well, I am sure there was something they could have enlightened me on … the type of guitar strings they used, or some trick they did that I didn’t know about. I made a rule I wasn’t going to speculate on what they did when they went home. What I knew, what I saw, that’s what I wrote about. It would have been cool to have some of the intrigue that went on, that I only heard about. For example with Christine (McVie) … John (McVie) kept sniffing around the hotel, she didn’t want anything to do with him. Christine had to hide in Stevie’s room.

30 Days Out: We get the impression from the book that Christine was sort of your favorite person in the band.

Caillat: Um, you know, sort of, but not necessarily. She was constant, she could be (unreasonable) at times, but most of the time you could just talk to her. Mick and the others, it wasn’t so easy. Sometimes you didn’t know what was going on and where you stood with them. If they were too high, you couldn’t talk to them.

30 Days Out: Were the members of Fleetwood Mac upset when they learned you were going to write this book?

Caillat: I don’t know … the funny thing is, I have done two DVDs about Rumours for two different companies at two different times. I interviewed the band for each one, and there was no problem. This time, though, after about two months of not getting any answers, I get a phone call saying the band has decided not to participate in my book. I think it was because Lindsey Buckingham may want to write his own book at some point. So he doesn’t want the band helping.

30 Days Out: You had a few problems with Lindsey down the road. How was he to work with?

Caillat: He was just a real nervous, intense guy. I used to say he’d walk in and suck the fun out of the room. There was an engineer who worked on the album after Mirage – Tango In The Night – the engineer read my book and called me up. He said ‘it’s so true. Whenever everyone walked out of the room and I was alone with Lindsey, it was very uncomfortable.’ You know he’s judging you, he’s thinking about something. He’s thinking that you are thinking something about him. At that point, while we were doing Rumours, he was a nervous nellie. He’s just like that: he’d come in in the morning, always rubbing his hands together. He kept a big tape box full of pot, and he was always rolling a joint. Nonstop, rolling a joint. One time I got into an argument with Lindsey in Reno at a casino … he starting yelling at this dealer. I said you don’t treat people like that, you are just a ****ing asshole.

30 Days Out: But musically, he’s a genius …

Caillat: Absolutely, he’s a genius.

30 Days Out: When we look back at 1977 and Rumours, there really was nothing like that album or anything that even sounded like it at the time. When you were making that album, did you have a sense you were doing something really special?

Caillat: Never got that idea. We were all so tired, we were exhausted. If you go to my website and listen to some of these songs in their original form, you’d probably say this is not very good. How those songs grew over 12 months to become these amazing things, it’s truly astonishing. We didn’t know!

Caillat: A friend of mine got to listen to Rumours when it was almost done. He said “I don’t hear a hit.” And we were totally devastated. It’s astonishing to me, that album had 10 radio hits out of the 11 songs. But at the time it came out we were so tired, working 15-18 hours a day on it for the good part of an entire year. I remember at one point driving into the studio in Hollywood, and I saw Christmas decorations on Hollywood Boulevard. And I said ‘Oh, is it Christmas again already?’

30 Days Out: There must have been incredible pressure from the record company to follow up their “white album” (Fleetwood Mac from 1975) with another hit.

Caillat: Just the opposite, no pressure. The record company was sitting
back smoking big cigars, they weren’t in our face. I guarantee it would not be like that if we did the same record today. With a record already sliding down the charts, they’d come in and say who the hell are these new guys? We’re going to use our ‘genius’ which they don’t have to try and make it more commercial. They would ask, why don’t you make it more like Adele?

Caillat: My daughter (singer Colbie Caillat) is going through that now. On her second album the label had a whole team, they came in … and said you should try everything, do some hip hop, do some rap stuff. I said, ‘would you like it if we dyed her hair red and got her a boob job? Would you like that too?’

30 Days Out: With that kind of atmosphere, could you make another Rumours today?

Caillat: Sure! The thing that was amazing was that budgets were big then, and costs were relatively small. We were able to spend 12 months in the studio perfecting every little bit. Analog tape was our tool at the time, it rolled on a heavy reel, and you built a song from top to bottom. When it came time to rewind the tape it may take 2-3 minutes to rewind. While you’re doing it the artist sitting in the studio at the microphone, and you end up talking, you talk about what you did, you played this, I thought you were going to go here … you get this kind of conversation which doesn’t happen in today’s digital world. Now you instantaneously you go back to the top. I have to tell my engineer don’t press play every time, so we can have that time to communicate with each other.

30 Days Out: Rumours is about to come out in a 35th anniversary edition. Are you involved with that reissue?

Caillat: No. Why not? I don’t know, it always astounds me. I’m sure it’s the money. I would have done it for nothing! There was some of that in the first two years, but as time has passed I have really nothing to do with it anymore.

30 Days Out: Going beyond the scope of the book a bit, how did you get to Tusk (1979)? It was so different than Rumours.

Caillat: Yeah, well that’s Lindsey Buckingham. I had full intentions of improving our work on Rumours and making Tusk be Rumours II . Do better on everything. But the second or third day Lindsey came in, he had a bunch of home recordings all full of distortion and grunge. Punk was getting big then, and he was into all of that. He had this big hairdo during and after Rumours …, but now he had freaked out in the shower and cut all his hair off with scissors. It was really weird looking. He said OK, we’re going to do everything different. He made me take all the edge off the guitars, saying that’s how we are going to make this record. It wasn’t what I wanted. Tusk became something totally different, kind of experimental. I said to Lindsey, so you want a darker album? There was a lot of decadence at the time … a lot of drugs, excessive living. It was tough to work with Lindsey at that point. He was just a pain in the ass.

30 Days Out: Do you think you’ll write another book, maybe about Tusk and beyond?

Caillat: You’re the fourth guy to ask me that just today! I have all the information … I went through the tape vaults, all the scans of all the track sheets, instrumentation, date they were recorded. I’ve got all that … I was ready to go, ready to write a Tusk book. In fact, I got about a quarter of the way through. But I stopped because I’m not sure there’s a market for it. This book has only had modest success … for us to get another book out it’s gonna take somebody to come in and say we can do better with a second book. Rumours is a pleasant story, it has a happy ending. I don’t think books about Tusk and Mirage are gonna have happy endings.

30 Days Out: Tell us a little about working with John McVie.

Caillat: It’s weird, John was kind of like Jekyll and Hyde, he was the greatest guy in the world. So soft spoken, then all of a sudden he’d turn on you. Mostly he’d do that when he was drinking, he was a closet drinker. Ninety percent of the time he was just great. Great bass player. He was always complaining I never had the bass loud enough. He made me very conscious of the bass, so I’d leave it up in the mix. One time Gary Katz, Steely Dan’s producer, came in and said you have the best bass sound – how do you do it? I told him, bitching! Have your bass player complain to you all the time!

30 Days Out: What about Stevie Nicks?

Caillat: Back then she was just the cutest little hippie chick. Adorable! She was funny, she had a cute giggle. She loved music, she only knew about three chords on the piano but she could make about 30 songs out of them. Her quirky side was she was always thinking about herself. I learned not to ask how she was doing that day. You’d spend 10 minutes just listening to her talk about herself.

Caillat: I always thought it was amazing, Lindsey and Stevie could never pass a mirror without looking at themselves. That’s just the kind of people they are. They are the kind of people who see a stage and want to be up there. They want the limelight. It’s kind of a double-edged sword … I’ve seen this sweet picture of Lindsey, taken right before Rumours, he’s sitting on the floor in an airport playing guitar. That guy’s gone. As they grew, as the Tusk album got really difficult for me, everybody became an asshole, really decadent, rather full of themselves. Not saying that’s a bad thing, it’s natural. But it wasn’t pleasant.

30 Days Out: How did it end with you and Fleetwood Mac?

Caillat: I had done Mirage (1982) and the live album, and they were gonna do Tango In The Night (1987). It was taking about a year to do and
I just said, you know I’m gonna bow out this time. It ended great. I’m still friends with them, I think.

30 Days Out: So what’s next for you?

Caillat: I am starting a new label, Sleeping Giant records. Gonna be working with new artists, our main thrust will be artist development. And I’m going to continue working with my daughter Colbie. I can take no credit for her, she was born with this perfect voice and she loves to sing. She’s the nicest person in the world, she’d rather roll on the floor with the dogs and do just about anything else. And right now I’m working on on Spanish, Japanese and Portugese translations of Making Rumours. The audio book comes out in April, paperback comes out in April too. And I’m going to keep producing, all the time. Making the best music I can.

[bombaysaffires]

see, Richard often would allude to these same things on his blog, and occasionally would say them, but then he'd immediately pull back or hide behind some rather metaphysical cliches. It was like he felt saying anything honest was disloyal. Think what you want about Ken and whatever axe he may have to grind, but I'm grateful there's at least one person who was inside the circle who doesn't completely toe the company line and only tell the narrative the band wants told. :eek:

[johnnystorms]

I guess this explains Stevie's reticence about going into the studio again

[Frankenstein]

I don’t think books about Tusk and Mirage are gonna have happy endings.

I wonder what this means. Maybe the fact that those albums weren't the monster success that Rumours was, but it's not like they were total bombs either. I'd love to read about the making of Tusk and Mirage. Also, I can't see Lindsey writing a book, ever. :laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

I wonder what this means. Maybe the fact that those albums weren't the monster success that Rumours was, but it's not like they were total bombs either. I'd love to read about the making of Tusk and Mirage. Also, I can't see Lindsey writing a book, ever. :laugh:

When I asked him about it. He said Tusk and Mirage drugs and fighting were far worse than Rumours. One particular member would threaten to leave if she didn't get her way... ;0) The politics became worse as time went on.

[louielouie2000]

I guess this explains Stevie's reticence about going into the studio again

How so? Ken is describing the band's behavior 35-40 years ago while they were all strung out on drugs and completely intoxicated by their sudden fame.

[bombaysaffires]

When I asked him about it. He said Tusk and Mirage drugs and fighting were far worse than Rumours. One particular member would threaten to leave if she didn't get her way... ;0) The politics became worse as time went on.

some things never change......:eek: