FWIW question...

[mikephxaz]

From the little streetcar bell ring at the start of the song, it seems to be a love song to her early years in SanFran with Lindsey....her final love song to him? Her thank you?

[mezzoforte]

I don't see it as a love song to him, so much as a celebration of her life featuring him. If that distinction makes any sense at all...

I got to sing, I got to dance
I go to be a part of a great romance
Still forbidden, still outrageous

I think she's remembering all of the incredible experiences she's had, including this epic love and the early days in SanFran. But I think she's addressing herself and her fans more than LB, and the vibe is less pleading and romantic than, "Whoo--what a ride!"

[CreepingDeath]

From the little streetcar bell ring at the start of the song, it seems to be a love song to her early years in SanFran with Lindsey....her final love song to him? Her thank you?

Her final love song to him? Highly doubtful. They still have to do Buckingham Nicks II in Wales. :D

[Phil]

I do think "For What It's Worth" is about her relationship with Lindsey, specifically regarding the period I believe they were "reacquainted" during "The Dance" era. A slightly more romantic take than the subject matter of "Thrown Down".

[Jondalar]

Stevie said it is about the person who stayed with her in 1993 and 94, when she was fat and everything was falling apart and she thought she was going to die. This person believed in her and stayed with her and saved her life.

[michelej1]

Doesn't sound like it's about Lindsey to me. For one thing, I don't think he was spearheading their trip to Southern California. I think she took the initiative on that. Plus, I don't think he's that comforting to Stevie. I mean, he's a partner and actually in a strange way I think it is a comfort to always have him to bicker with, but he's not sitting around holding her hand, bucking up her confidence and inspiring her as the person in FWIW was obviously doing. He more spurs than inspires. Michele

[Jondalar]

Doesn't sound like it's about Lindsey to me. For one thing, I don't think he was spearheading their trip to Southern California. I think she took the initiative on that. Plus, I don't think he's that comforting to Stevie. I mean, he's a partner and actually in a strange way I think it is a comfort to always have him to bicker with, but he's not sitting around holding her hand, bucking up her confidence and inspiring her as the person in FWIW was obviously doing. He more spurs than inspires. Michele

It's definitely not about Lindsey.

[jellyman10]

It's definitely not about Lindsey.

I agree. Don't see how it can be, if she's on record as saying it was about someone who stood by her in 93-94, which was more or less exactly when LB was blanking her at the inauguration? Just doesn't add up, unless it's another 'Sara'-type composite, where this line's about that dude, and that line's about this dude...:rolleyes:

[Jondalar]

I agree. Don't see how it can be, if she's on record as saying it was about someone who stood by her in 93-94, which was more or less exactly when LB was blanking her at the inauguration? Just doesn't add up, unless it's another 'Sara'-type composite, where this line's about that dude, and that line's about this dude...:rolleyes:

It's not about him. It's another mystery.

[michelej1]

Stevie said it is about the person who stayed with her in 1993 and 94, when she was fat and everything was falling apart and she thought she was going to die. This person believed in her and stayed with her and saved her life.

Well, what Stevie says the song is about doesn't matter that much to me, since she's also said that Blue Denim was not about him and then said it was. Both statements were probably equally correct.

But to me, the lyrics in FWIW don't sound anything like a description of what she had with Lindsey. Sounds like Tom Petty to me. Either Petty or someone we don't know about at all, since their relationship was a secret, forbidden.

Michele

[Jondalar]

Well, what Stevie says the song is about doesn't matter that much to me, since she's also said that Blue Denim was not about him and then said it was. Both statements were probably equally correct.

But to me, the lyrics in FWIW don't sound anything like a description of what she had with Lindsey. Sounds like Tom Petty to me. Either Petty or someone we don't know about at all, since their relationship was a secret, forbidden.

Michele

I was thinking Mike Campbell, becuase Mike really has stuck by her through thick and thin.

[michelej1]

I was thinking Mike Campbell, becuase Mike really has stuck by her through thick and thin.

Interesting, since he's involved with this whole project. That would be a nice nod.

Michele

[Phil]

... and that he co-wrote it!

[flickersticked]

I don't know what or who it's about but as soon as it started playing it brought tears to my eyes. It's my favorite so far.

[ragrsrocalot]

Stevie said it is about the person who stayed with her in 1993 and 94, when she was fat and everything was falling apart and she thought she was going to die. This person believed in her and stayed with her and saved her life.

I don't know who this song is about, but Stevie has stated the above, about Carlos Rios.

I love this song.

[Bryan]

Sooner or later this 'shipper' business has GOT to end! There are many many people in her life and many more who have been and gone.Enough with the Lindsey assumptions,it could be about anyone,a man who is not remotely a public figure/musician/etc. Same goes for other songs

[StreetAngel86]

Sooner or later this 'shipper' business has GOT to end! There are many many people in her life and many more who have been and gone.Enough with the Lindsey assumptions,it could be about anyone,a man who is not remotely a public figure/musician/etc. Same goes for other songs

wait, are you implying with your comment that ALL of Stevie's songs are NOT about Lindsey?????? :eek: ... GTFO ....


...



...



.....



:lol:

[Kena]

Sooner or later this 'shipper' business has GOT to end! There are many many people in her life and many more who have been and gone.Enough with the Lindsey assumptions,it could be about anyone,a man who is not remotely a public figure/musician/etc. Same goes for other songs

First off I must admit that I'm a recovering shipper so this may be me being in denial about my shipper addiction :eek: but I don't see how this is shipper business really... I mean, noone is saying they think this song means that she and he will be together one day and they are still hooking up. Folks are saying she may be referring to something she had with him in the past. I think that's fair speculation. Besides, even if they are over and done with, Stevie's Thrown Down was her dragging up some shipper dirt... yeah that was in 2003 or 2004 but if she can do it why can't we?

There is a reason why Rumours still sells and part of the draw is the personal drama that was going on with the band members. It was real stuff and most people relate to real stuff because we all got it. I remember the first few times I heard Second Hand News and I just kept wondering who Lindsey wanted to lay down in the tall grass and do his stuff with. Well who better to do "stuff" with than little miss Stevie? For some of us, that's the reason we got hooked on FM. The band members have all been open about the songs on that Album being about each other...which makes it hard to get out of ones mind that maybe future songs are about the band members...if that makes any sense at all?

Just fyi, I don't think this song is about Lindsey. You are right about there being many people in Stevie's life and many who have been and gone. I think there are many many many many men who have come (no pun - oh why not) and gone. It'd be a lot easier if Stevie would write a "tell all" book and give us that big ol' long list of her magic mens!

[michelej1]

It'd be a lot easier if Stevie would write a "tell all" book and give us that big ol' long list of her magic mens!

Yes, if she doesn't have time, we don't need the whole book. We just need a list (with maybe a time period for each man). We can work with that.:laugh:

Michele

[CADreaming]

Honestly, if Stevie would shut the hell up about Lindsey then shipperness or the speculation thereof would die.

[michelej1]

So, no I don't think FWIW fits LB at all, but I hear hints of him in Italian Summer and You May Be the One and she has already said that she sang Everybody Loves You to Lindsey, while Dave could sing it to Annie.

Oh and the other line I think is about Lindsey on the album is the angry words going back and forth between them while on the islands (which I took to be Hawaii). She says she couldn't believe what he was saying. I think this was the SYW fight, but I don't think it was just about track sequencing.

Michele

[CADreaming]

^roflol!!!

[hestergail]

First off I must admit that I'm a recovering shipper so this may be me being in denial about my shipper addiction :eek: but I don't see how this is shipper business really... I mean, noone is saying they think this song means that she and he will be together one day and they are still hooking up. Folks are saying she may be referring to something she had with him in the past. I think that's fair speculation. Besides, even if they are over and done with, Stevie's Thrown Down was her dragging up some shipper dirt... yeah that was in 2003 or 2004 but if she can do it why can't we?

There is a reason why Rumours still sells and part of the draw is the personal drama that was going on with the band members. It was real stuff and most people relate to real stuff because we all got it. I remember the first few times I heard Second Hand News and I just kept wondering who Lindsey wanted to lay down in the tall grass and do his stuff with. Well who better to do "stuff" with than little miss Stevie? For some of us, that's the reason we got hooked on FM. The band members have all been open about the songs on that Album being about each other...which makes it hard to get out of ones mind that maybe future songs are about the band members...if that makes any sense at all?

Just fyi, I don't think this song is about Lindsey. You are right about there being many people in Stevie's life and many who have been and gone. I think there are many many many many men who have come (no pun - oh why not) and gone. It'd be a lot easier if Stevie would write a "tell all" book and give us that big ol' long list of her magic mens!

I agree with this, I see this song as a modern day gypsy kinda thing. I don't think it's far fetched to say it's about her and Lindsey's starting out. I realize she's not exactly conforted by him but maybe in the begining... he was a source of comfort. It was essentially them against the world in those days. They just had each other.

[Artemis]

I've gotta go with the general consensus and agree that FWIW isn't about Lindsey.

You May Be The One, however... I'm definitely starting to think that song is about him.

[TinyDancer]

First off I must admit that I'm a recovering shipper so this may be me being in denial about my shipper addiction :eek: but I don't see how this is shipper business really... I mean, noone is saying they think this song means that she and he will be together one day and they are still hooking up. Folks are saying she may be referring to something she had with him in the past. I think that's fair speculation. Besides, even if they are over and done with, Stevie's Thrown Down was her dragging up some shipper dirt... yeah that was in 2003 or 2004 but if she can do it why can't we?

There is a reason why Rumours still sells and part of the draw is the personal drama that was going on with the band members. It was real stuff and most people relate to real stuff because we all got it. I remember the first few times I heard Second Hand News and I just kept wondering who Lindsey wanted to lay down in the tall grass and do his stuff with. Well who better to do "stuff" with than little miss Stevie? For some of us, that's the reason we got hooked on FM. The band members have all been open about the songs on that Album being about each other...which makes it hard to get out of ones mind that maybe future songs are about the band members...if that makes any sense at all?

Just fyi, I don't think this song is about Lindsey. You are right about there being many people in Stevie's life and many who have been and gone. I think there are many many many many men who have come (no pun - oh why not) and gone. It'd be a lot easier if Stevie would write a "tell all" book and give us that big ol' long list of her magic mens!

I feel ya on the recovering shipper thing! Even if she hadn't said the comments about someone from 93-94 who stayed with her, I would still have to say the song is not about LB. The, "You saved my life" line does not give me a LB vibe AT ALL. I can't see her saying something like this about him.

That being said if she comes back in a year and says the song is about him I am not going to be mad. Ughhh old habits die hard:lol:

[saintvox]

I don't think it's about him.

It doesn't have the same sound as other songs she's done that are about him to me.

[michelej1]

Yes, there are so many things that point away from Lindsey in my eyes: I think if she was writing about the trip to Southern California she'd be saying that she is the one who scooped him up, threw him in the car and took him to Los Angeles, not the other way around.

Also, she talks about no one knowing they were together. Even though we have discussed the fact that SnL have never admitted being a couple while in Fritz, I don't think she'd be writing about having a secret affair with Lindsey during that time period. According to Javier, everyone knew.

It's the secrecy lyrics that make me think it's about Tom Petty. Michele

[mikephxaz]

I'm not a hopeless romantic about Stevie and Lindsay and I dont keep up with all the torrid details of their time together but my first listen to FWIW- maybe , just maybe, she was singing about their time in San Fran and his request to Mick that Stevie be included....if Lindsey had not "taken her along for the ride" with him...her life would have been different...maybe I am being a bit romantic..lol...I know about Stevie's quote about 93, 94 but......carlos or mike may be a better fit

[darklinensuit]

I don't have a clue to the secret person at this point, but Mike Campbell does sound pretty logical.

I'll get flamed for this, but I will say that, while I like the song, it sounds like it would fit on Street Angel pretty well - musically, lyrically, vocally. Sort of a cross between "Inspiration" and "Rose Garden".

- Jake

[CADreaming]

In For What It's Worth, Nicks sings about a "forbidden romance that saved my life". It's not about Mick Fleetwood, she says. Rather, it refers to someone who stood by her in 1995, before the release of Fleetwood Mac's live album The Dance and after her stint in rehab for Klonopin...

"So you walk out into the world and you are a different person. And we were going on a tour and I was terrified. Terrified. And this person just sort of hung with me through that tour and buffered me from the world. And he did save my life."

The reason I think the Lindsey card can be played is because I heard the same story mentioned by another Ledgie, about her rehab experience - that her Dad had called Lindsey to help because no one else was reaching her. Debbie (catdancer) said when she talked to Lindsey in the early '90's, he was very concerned about Stevie and wanted her to call him. Someone else mentioned how upset he was when he did the two FM shows in Dec. '90 and she didn't know some of his relatives backstage because she was so out of it.

Also, according to the time frame Stevie gave in the quote, the tour she is referring to is The Dance which was Stevie's first tour after her '95 rehab stay. I'm pretty sure Tom Petty, Mike Campbell or Carlos Rios weren't on that tour. Just judging from the rehearsal videos and Stevie and Lindsey's body language and interaction, they were not as stilted towards one another as you might expect for being newly reacquainted after a period of long animosity. They seemed very comfortable and he was being obviously protective of her. Fans here have said when they went backstage at a show, everyone else was gone but Stevie and Lindsey came in holding hands and sat down on a sofa and continued to hold hands, prompting the fans to assume they were back together. Stevie and Lindsey denied it, but it was apparent to the fans they were close again.

It could be forbidden because they were supposed to be with other people. Lindsey was breaking up with Cheri during this time period.

"For What It's Worth" has been called a "mirror" to "Landslide"... it does sound like she comes full-circle in the song.

At any rate, whoever it's about - I'm thankful to that person. And, I think it's one of the most beautiful and touching songs she's ever written.

[jellyman10]

^^^ Nice post. They do have quite a story, any way you look at it.

[TinyDancer]

The reason I think the Lindsey card can be played is because I heard the same story mentioned by another Ledgie, about her rehab experience - that her Dad had called Lindsey to help because no one else was reaching her. Debbie (catdancer) said when she talked to Lindsey in the early '90's, he was very concerned about Stevie and wanted her to call him. Someone else mentioned how upset he was when he did the two FM shows in Dec. '90 and she didn't know some of his relatives backstage because she was so out of it.

Also, according to the time frame Stevie gave in the quote, the tour she is referring to is The Dance which was Stevie's first tour after her '95 rehab stay. I'm pretty sure Tom Petty, Mike Campbell or Carlos Rios weren't on that tour. Just judging from the rehearsal videos and Stevie and Lindsey's body language and interaction, they were not as stilted towards one another as you might expect for being newly reacquainted after a period of long animosity. They seemed very comfortable and he was being obviously protective of her. Fans here have said when they went backstage at a show, everyone else was gone but Stevie and Lindsey came in holding hands and sat down on a sofa and continued to hold hands, prompting the fans to assume they were back together. Stevie and Lindsey denied it, but it was apparent to the fans they were close again.

It could be forbidden because they were supposed to be with other people. Lindsey was breaking up with Cheri during this time period.

"For What It's Worth" has been called a "mirror" to "Landslide"... it does sound like she comes full-circle in the song.

At any rate, whoever it's about - I'm thankful to that person. And, I think it's one of the most beautiful and touching songs she's ever written.

Very interesting and insightful post. I never thought of it that way. She seems to dance around the meaning and be protective of her songs for a good while after their release, so maybe ten years from now we will really know what it's about.

[Kena]

The reason I think the Lindsey card can be played is because I heard the same story mentioned by another Ledgie, about her rehab experience - that her Dad had called Lindsey to help because no one else was reaching her. Debbie (catdancer) said when she talked to Lindsey in the early '90's, he was very concerned about Stevie and wanted her to call him. Someone else mentioned how upset he was when he did the two FM shows in Dec. '90 and she didn't know some of his relatives backstage because she was so out of it.

Also, according to the time frame Stevie gave in the quote, the tour she is referring to is The Dance which was Stevie's first tour after her '95 rehab stay. I'm pretty sure Tom Petty, Mike Campbell or Carlos Rios weren't on that tour. Just judging from the rehearsal videos and Stevie and Lindsey's body language and interaction, they were not as stilted towards one another as you might expect for being newly reacquainted after a period of long animosity. They seemed very comfortable and he was being obviously protective of her. Fans here have said when they went backstage at a show, everyone else was gone but Stevie and Lindsey came in holding hands and sat down on a sofa and continued to hold hands, prompting the fans to assume they were back together. Stevie and Lindsey denied it, but it was apparent to the fans they were close again.

It could be forbidden because they were supposed to be with other people. Lindsey was breaking up with Cheri during this time period.

"For What It's Worth" has been called a "mirror" to "Landslide"... it does sound like she comes full-circle in the song.

At any rate, whoever it's about - I'm thankful to that person. And, I think it's one of the most beautiful and touching songs she's ever written.

Trigger Trigger Trigger! Help me, I'm about to have a shipper relapse! Are any of those fans who went backstage around the ledge? Noooo, don't tell me.

[Jondalar]

The reason I think the Lindsey card can be played is because I heard the same story mentioned by another Ledgie, about her rehab experience - that her Dad had called Lindsey to help because no one else was reaching her. Debbie (catdancer) said when she talked to Lindsey in the early '90's, he was very concerned about Stevie and wanted her to call him. Someone else mentioned how upset he was when he did the two FM shows in Dec. '90 and she didn't know some of his relatives backstage because she was so out of it.

Also, according to the time frame Stevie gave in the quote, the tour she is referring to is The Dance which was Stevie's first tour after her '95 rehab stay. I'm pretty sure Tom Petty, Mike Campbell or Carlos Rios weren't on that tour. Just judging from the rehearsal videos and Stevie and Lindsey's body language and interaction, they were not as stilted towards one another as you might expect for being newly reacquainted after a period of long animosity. They seemed very comfortable and he was being obviously protective of her. Fans here have said when they went backstage at a show, everyone else was gone but Stevie and Lindsey came in holding hands and sat down on a sofa and continued to hold hands, prompting the fans to assume they were back together. Stevie and Lindsey denied it, but it was apparent to the fans they were close again.

It could be forbidden because they were supposed to be with other people. Lindsey was breaking up with Cheri during this time period.

"For What It's Worth" has been called a "mirror" to "Landslide"... it does sound like she comes full-circle in the song.

At any rate, whoever it's about - I'm thankful to that person. And, I think it's one of the most beautiful and touching songs she's ever written.

I never knew any of that. It could be him then.

[equeen102289]

The reason I think the Lindsey card can be played is because I heard the same story mentioned by another Ledgie, about her rehab experience - that her Dad had called Lindsey to help because no one else was reaching her. Debbie (catdancer) said when she talked to Lindsey in the early '90's, he was very concerned about Stevie and wanted her to call him. Someone else mentioned how upset he was when he did the two FM shows in Dec. '90 and she didn't know some of his relatives backstage because she was so out of it.

Also, according to the time frame Stevie gave in the quote, the tour she is referring to is The Dance which was Stevie's first tour after her '95 rehab stay. I'm pretty sure Tom Petty, Mike Campbell or Carlos Rios weren't on that tour. Just judging from the rehearsal videos and Stevie and Lindsey's body language and interaction, they were not as stilted towards one another as you might expect for being newly reacquainted after a period of long animosity. They seemed very comfortable and he was being obviously protective of her. Fans here have said when they went backstage at a show, everyone else was gone but Stevie and Lindsey came in holding hands and sat down on a sofa and continued to hold hands, prompting the fans to assume they were back together. Stevie and Lindsey denied it, but it was apparent to the fans they were close again.

It could be forbidden because they were supposed to be with other people. Lindsey was breaking up with Cheri during this time period.

"For What It's Worth" has been called a "mirror" to "Landslide"... it does sound like she comes full-circle in the song.

At any rate, whoever it's about - I'm thankful to that person. And, I think it's one of the most beautiful and touching songs she's ever written.

Great post.

As open as Stevie is being in these new interviews (admitting Lady From the Mountains is about Lindsey), I wouldn't be surprised if she confesses this one if asked about it.

[Annabell Lee]

This song is crazy beautiful. Her voice is so tender and intimate, im starting to REALLY fall for this song. The more i listen the more it's claws come out and grab me. I agree, totally about LB. We could be wrong but i don't think so ! ;)

[Sugar]

Must say the first person I thought of when I heard this song was Mick. :eek:

[Ghosty]

i thought it was said lindsey was at several street angel shows, which surprised me when i heard that. so he did seem to be around her at least a little in 94. hmmm.....and now she's almost gushing about the guy...

when i was on vaca one summer in RI i could have swore i saw sn and lb drive by - lol!!! i'm sure it was not them, but it just sort of cracked me up. i don't remember the year, i'd have to go check in my photo album. but it was either 92, 93, or 94. it was newport RI. and the woman's hair was long and straight - guess that rules out summer of 94 with the krimping!

[CADreaming]

i thought it was said lindsey was at several street angel shows, which surprised me when i heard that. so he did seem to be around her at least a little in 94. hmmm.....and now she's almost gushing about the guy...

when i was on vaca one summer in RI i could have swore i saw sn and lb drive by - lol!!! i'm sure it was not them, but it just sort of cracked me up. i don't remember the year, i'd have to go check in my photo album. but it was either 92, 93, or 94. it was newport RI. and the woman's hair was long and straight - guess that rules out summer of 94 with the krimping!

Well, with all her wigs, extensions, etc. that just may be splitting hairs... :lol:

[fairydust75]

[QUOTE=darklinensuit;973793]I don't have a clue to the secret person at this point, but Mike Campbell does sound pretty logical.

I'll get flamed for this, but I will say that, while I like the song, it sounds like it would fit on Street Angel pretty well - musically, lyrically, vocally. Sort of a cross between "Inspiration" and "Rose Garden".


I'm thinking it was either Carlos Rios or Mike Campbell. Wasn't Carlos her band leader at the time. I don't think Waddy was on that tour. Well, whoever he was, we owe him a big Thank You. Afterall, he saved our girls life.

[Brad]

I'll get flamed for this, but I will say that, while I like the song, it sounds like it would fit on Street Angel pretty well - musically, lyrically, vocally. Sort of a cross between "Inspiration" and "Rose Garden".

No, I completely agree. When I was trying to think earlier of what it reminds me of, I thought of a mix of "Inspiration" and "Rose Garden" (especially "Rose Garden"). Add in a little "Hey There, Delilah." This is definitely my favorite track off the CD. Amazing lyrics with great delivery.

[Josh2003]

I've only sort of skimmed through this thread, so forgive me if this thought has already been raised, but...

If this song were about Stevie, wouldn't she have just said so? I mean, she has no qualms whatsoever about talking about when a song is about Lindsey. She just did so re: one of the verses of "Moonlight." Why would she beat around the bush and say, vaguely, that the song is about someone who helped her through a difficult time, when she could have just as easily said that it's about Lindsey?

[darklinensuit]

When I was trying to think earlier of what it reminds me of, I thought of a mix of "Inspiration" and "Rose Garden".

This is exactly what I posted in another thread the other day. Glad I'm not crazy for thinking so. Or that I'm not alone in my craziness.

- Jake

[Johnny Stew]

Also, according to the time frame Stevie gave in the quote, the tour she is referring to is The Dance which was Stevie's first tour after her '95 rehab stay. I'm pretty sure Tom Petty, Mike Campbell or Carlos Rios weren't on that tour.

Just a small correction: Stevie's stay in rehab for the Klonopin addiction happened in late '93, not 1995, and the first tour afterward was for 'Street Angel.' Carlos Rios was on that tour. As was the married Rick Vito.

[Ghosty]

Well, with all her wigs, extensions, etc. that just may be splitting hairs... :lol:

HAA!!!! lol!

[Ghosty]

i used to think she and rick would be cute together, but i didn't know he was married. maybe she could find mr. right if she stopped dating all the mr. married.

[CADreaming]

Just a small correction: Stevie's stay in rehab for the Klonopin addiction happened in late '93, not 1995, and the first tour afterward was for 'Street Angel.' Carlos Rios was on that tour. As was the married Rick Vito.

I did read the rehab stay was Dec. '93-Jan. '94. But, the article said it was about "someone whoe stood by her '95." Possibilities are that the article was inaccurate, Stevie herself said '95 and they went with it, she went into rehab more than we know, Lindsey was around her during that period as Ghosty speculated, or just that it's about someone else. I already posted the reason why I thought Lindsey was a candidate for the subject matter.

It's also interesting, as I was researching the time frame, I read she wrote "Love Is" in Jan. '95 after she got out of rehab. I would guess it is probably about the same person.

[Jondalar]

I did read the rehab stay was Dec. '93-Jan. '94. But, the article said it was about "someone whoe stood by her '95." Possibilities are that the article was inaccurate, Stevie herself said '95 and they went with it, she went into rehab more than we know, Lindsey was around her during that period as Ghosty speculated, or just that it's about someone else. I already posted the reason why I thought Lindsey was a candidate for the subject matter.

It's also interesting, as I was researching the time frame, I read she wrote "Love Is" in Jan. '95 after she got out of rehab. I would guess it is probably about the same person.

In that new article, stevie says if anything happened to Lindsey, he would be the first one over and vice versa, too

[CADreaming]

i thought it was said lindsey was at several street angel shows, which surprised me when i heard that. so he did seem to be around her at least a little in 94. hmmm.....and now she's almost gushing about the guy...

when i was on vaca one summer in RI i could have swore i saw sn and lb drive by - lol!!! i'm sure it was not them, but it just sort of cracked me up. i don't remember the year, i'd have to go check in my photo album. but it was either 92, 93, or 94. it was newport RI. and the woman's hair was long and straight - guess that rules out summer of 94 with the krimping!

Great stories, btw. :wavey:

I've only sort of skimmed through this thread, so forgive me if this thought has already been raised, but...

If this song were about Stevie, wouldn't she have just said so? I mean, she has no qualms whatsoever about talking about when a song is about Lindsey. She just did so re: one of the verses of "Moonlight." Why would she beat around the bush and say, vaguely, that the song is about someone who helped her through a difficult time, when she could have just as easily said that it's about Lindsey?

Not necessarily. That's just the way she rolls. She's kept a lot of stuff secret or has at the least danced around the subjects. I don't blame her - it's her life, she's laying it out there in song, she doesn't need to give away everything. Plus, I think sometimes things are just too close to the heart to blab the entire story. I don't know just my cup of coffee ramblings... :laugh:

In that new article, stevie says if anything happened to Lindsey, he would be the first one over and vice versa, too

Good point!

[Josh2003]

Wasn't she collaborating a bit with Jesse Valenzuela of the Gin Blossoms a bit around this time? According the the Enchanted booklet, they met in '95 and he worked with her on some music around this time (It's Late, eventually Twisted). She says that his friendship was something she had come to treasure.

[Amlyn]

I always wondered how the reconciliation process between SnL occurred after the fight in '87.

I think I remember reading that a few weeks or a month after that incident went down in '87 that SnL talked again or something, but it wasn't anything of substance. And then we know Lindsey showed up for was it the last show of the BTM tour where Stevie has that "I hope Lindsey will be my friend and sing with me again" or some variation of that Landslide dedication where he came out to play with her and then there's the Inauguration where it was pretty much a one night only thing and then bam, in 1996 he records Twisted with her. Which to me translates to some sort of contact between those two sometime in the mid-90s.

[CADreaming]

Wasn't she collaborating a bit with Jesse Valenzuela of the Gin Blossoms a bit around this time? According the the Enchanted booklet, they met in '95 and he worked with her on some music around this time (It's Late, eventually Twisted). She says that his friendship was something she had come to treasure.

Yes, she did work with him. Cool read (http://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart58.htm). I mean, I definitely would not put him in the category of possible subjects, but it was interesting to read.

I always wondered how the reconciliation process between SnL occurred after the fight in '87.

I think I remember reading that a few weeks or a month after that incident went down in '87 that SnL talked again or something, but it wasn't anything of substance. And then we know Lindsey showed up for was it the last show of the BTM tour where Stevie has that "I hope Lindsey will be my friend and sing with me again" or some variation of that Landslide dedication where he came out to play with her and then there's the Inauguration where it was pretty much a one night only thing and then bam, in 1996 he records Twisted with her. Which to me translates to some sort of contact between those two sometime in the mid-90s.

Right. He dodged the explanation on that pretty sloppily if you watch The Dance rehearsal video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGBji-8-3jo). When they asked how that duet came about, he folded it into he and Mick working on his stuff and they brought in Stevie to be a part of that. I'm like, so how does Stevie doing a song for a soundtrack work into your stuff exactly? :shrug:

[Jondalar]

Wasn't she collaborating a bit with Jesse Valenzuela of the Gin Blossoms a bit around this time? According the the Enchanted booklet, they met in '95 and he worked with her on some music around this time (It's Late, eventually Twisted). She says that his friendship was something she had come to treasure.

That's interesting because didn't a younger boyfriend breakup with Stevie when he found out how much she got payed for Landslide?

[jellyman10]

That's interesting because didn't a younger boyfriend breakup with Stevie when he found out how much she got payed for Landslide?

I'm pretty sure it was she who ended it and that it was the huge payout from the Dixie Chicks cover. She said it was someone who was struggling in the music business and that she couldn't be with someone who couldn't be happy for her about something like that. DC cover was 2002, I think.

[CADreaming]

That's interesting because didn't a younger boyfriend breakup with Stevie when he found out how much she got payed for Landslide?

Oh, yeah - I can't find the exact quote right now. But, the Dixie Chicks recorded in 2002 and Stevie won a BMI Song of the Year for it in 2003.

[Amlyn]

Yes, she did work with him. Cool read (http://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart58.htm). I mean, I definitely would not put him in the category of possible subjects, but it was interesting to read.



Right. He dodged the explanation on that pretty sloppily if you watch The Dance rehearsal video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGBji-8-3jo). When they asked how that duet came about, he folded it into he and Mick working on his stuff and they brought in Stevie to be a part of that. I'm like, so how does Stevie doing a song for a soundtrack work into your stuff exactly? :shrug:


Exactly, he makes is sound like the rest of them were all happily jamming and Stevie was a holdout. Oh well, we know how the next 15 years after that unfolded. Well, i think we know enough to scratch the surface. I'm convinced there's a whole lot we don't know. (And want to know.)

[CADreaming]

Exactly, he makes is sound like the rest of them were all happily jamming and Stevie was a holdout. Oh well, we know how the next 15 years after that unfolded. Well, i think we know enough to scratch the surface. I'm convinced there's a whole lot we don't know. (And want to know.)

And probably will never know. But, I didn't get the impression he was saying Stevie was a hold out. I think there was more to it than that and she must have felt left out of what they were doing.

[Johnny Stew]

It's possible that the interviewer assigned the wrong year to the event while writing the article. It's also very possible Stevie did, during the interview! ("We were going out on the Wild Heart Tour -- I think it was 1984.") lol.

Just seems to me that if she were going to be terrified about an impending tour, it would have been the first tour post-Klonopin. Especially since we know she was insecure about her weight and unhappy with the album.

Also to add, if she & Lindsey did have a relationship around this time, I wouldn't think that it would be considered "forbidden." She was single, he was single, there was nothing stopping them from being together if they wanted to. Now, if the person who helped her through this difficult time happened to be married.... ;)

Anyway, just my own speculation.

[Amlyn]

And probably will never know. But, I didn't get the impression he was saying Stevie was a hold out. I think there was more to it than that and she must have felt left out of what they were doing.

Yeah, holdout wasn't the right word. I like your description better.

[CADreaming]

It's possible that the interviewer assigned the wrong year to the event while writing the article. It's also very possible Stevie did, during the interview! ("We were going out on the Wild Heart Tour -- I think it was 1984.") lol.

Just seems to me that if she were going to be terrified about an impending tour, it would have been the first tour post-Klonopin. Especially since we know she was insecure about her weight and unhappy with the album.

Also to add, if she & Lindsey did have a relationship around this time, I wouldn't think that it would be considered "forbidden." She was single, he was single, there was nothing stopping them from being together if they wanted to. Now, if the person who helped her through this difficult time happened to be married.... ;)

Anyway, just my own speculation.

Oh, yeah - I totally hear you. It's also a great speculative point that she says it's "STILL forbidden" and "STILL outrageous"! ;)

[jellyman10]

^^^ I think Johnny Stew's right. It has to be the Street Angel tour, surely?

[David]

I don't see it as a love song to him, so much as a celebration of her life featuring him. If that distinction makes any sense at all...

I got to sing, I got to dance
I go to be a part of a great romance
Still forbidden, still outrageous

I think she's remembering all of the incredible experiences she's had, including this epic love and the early days in SanFran. But I think she's addressing herself and her fans more than LB, and the vibe is less pleading and romantic than, "Whoo--what a ride!"I agree. The "great romance" is the life she's had at the top of the rock & roll world. That would include relationships, but it means so much more.

This was a song that, when I first heard it, I enjoyed the casualness of it. It seemed genuine, too. But it never made me think of Lindsey--it made me think of the recent life of a close friend of mine, so I sent the song to her because I knew she'd know exactly what I was thinking.

To me, it gets really boring & constraining to think of everything Stevie writes in terms of Lindsey's effect on her. If that were all true, that would be a really boring--and yet still psychotically obsessed--life. I think Stevie's life--even the parts she remembers--was a lot more exciting than that.

Look at Stevie in my sig. It's September 24, 1983, at Irvine Meadows Amphitheatre. See the smile on her face? That's her great romance. It's Joe & Mick & Don & Lindsey & Sharon & the Wild Heart tour & Europe & Australia & concerts & audiences & fans & songs on the radio & People magazine covers & rock bands & all of life wrapped up in a moment of adrenaline.

[michelej1]

Just a small correction: Stevie's stay in rehab for the Klonopin addiction happened in late '93, not 1995, and the first tour afterward was for 'Street Angel.' Carlos Rios was on that tour. As was the married Rick Vito.

Aha! Rick is a very good candidate. That's excellent. Michele

[michelej1]

Oh, yeah - I totally hear you. It's also a great speculative point that she says it's "STILL forbidden" and "STILL outrageous"! ;)

Yes, you're right about the "still." That's why I was thinking of Tom Petty, because they still don't talk about what happened, if anything.

When she says she got to dance, got to sing, I think about her going on the road with Petty and Bob, although I know that that doesn't fit the nineties time frame AT ALL.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Yes, you're right about the "still." That's why I was thinking of Tom Petty, because they still don't talk about what happened, if anything.

When she says she got to dance, got to sing, I think about her going on the road with Petty and Bob, although I know that that doesn't fit the nineties time frame AT ALL.

Michele

Yeah, to me the line about "got to sing, got to dance, be a part of a great romance" is why the song is autobiographical overall, while at the same time giving a shout out to the person she's talking to.

[michelej1]

So, what do you think the chorus means?

Usually, when you say "even if" there's an event that follows, like cause and non-effect.

For instance you would say, "Even if I skip the dance, my feet will still hurt."

Here, the guy says even if I left my house, packed my car and drove to get you with good intentions . . . WHAT, what won't happen even if he does do all that? They don't finish the sentence.

When she ends with "for what it's worth," that's a nonsequitur. Is it, "I started with good intentions, for what it's worth . . . " something is not panning out, even if he tries.

I don't understand it, but I like the unfinished story. The way she's telling us and not telling us.


To me, it gets really boring & constraining to think of everything Stevie writes in terms of Lindsey's effect on her.

No, I like to think that everything everyone does is in terms of Lindsey's effect on them. Indeed, I found Lindsey's effect on Gotta Band quite profound. Lola Thomas? Bah!

I just don't think these FWIW lyrics fit Lindsey in the slightest. I mean we know he and Stevie drove in a car together, but that's about the only vague similarity between them and the people in this song that I can see.

Michele

[David]

Aha! Rick is a very good candidate. That's excellent. Michele
The story hasn't been told, but there's a reason beyond just friendship that Rick toured with Stevie in 1994 & didn't rejoin Fleetwood Mac for Time. I think it has to do with the Silver Springs fight in 1991, among other things. It involves Mick.

[gldstwmn]

Just a small correction: Stevie's stay in rehab for the Klonopin addiction happened in late '93, not 1995, and the first tour afterward was for 'Street Angel.' Carlos Rios was on that tour. As was the married Rick Vito.

He gets my vote. :nod:

[michelej1]

He gets my vote. :nod:

Stevie does introduce him in concert sometimes by saying he helped her at a very difficult time, held her up, is always there for her. Michele

[WildHearted]

I've been thinking about the chorus ever since I first heard the song. Even if, what?

I've just started interpreting it as like 'it wouldn't work' even if I did all of those things with the best of intentions...

[michelej1]

I've been thinking about the chorus ever since I first heard the song. Even if, what?

I've just started interpreting it as like 'it wouldn't work' even if I did all of those things with the best of intentions...

Yes, I think the same.

"For what it's worth, I'd love to try, but even if I left my girlfriend, packed my car and drove to your house with good intentions, we couldn't make it last."

Something along those lines. The lyric chops up the sentence and thought process in an interesting way.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Aha! Rick is a very good candidate. That's excellent. Michele

If it's Tom, Mike or Rick wouldn't the lyric have been "You said, 'even if I left my wife...'"? :shrug:


So, what do you think the chorus means?

Usually, when you say "even if" there's an event that follows, like cause and non-effect.

For instance you would say, "Even if I skip the dance, my feet will still hurt."

Here, the guy says even if I left my house, packed my car and drove to get you with good intentions . . . WHAT, what won't happen even if he does do all that? They don't finish the sentence.

When she ends with "for what it's worth," that's a nonsequitur. Is it, "I started with good intentions, for what it's worth . . . " something is not panning out, even if he tries.

I don't understand it, but I like the unfinished story. The way she's telling us and not telling us...

I just don't think these FWIW lyrics fit Lindsey in the slightest. I mean we know he and Stevie drove in a car together, but that's about the only vague similarity between them and the people in this song that I can see.

Michele

I like the unfinished aspect to it too.

As far as the car thing - that's the only similarity we know of, but that's like saying they didn't have sex because I didn't see them. But, I'm figuring they did.

Seriously, though along the same lines as one of your recent posts about relationships and the fascination of couples - that's my thought here. Their relationship is so complex and complicated we don't know what might have transpired. We know they fight/fought. But, we also know they were in love and still have a lot of love for one another. It's strange, yes. But, can we say oh this doesn't sound like Lindsey because he's not a comfort to her. Well, I don't think it's fair to say he's never been a comfort to her. I know that when they are working together they have huge differences of opinion. I don't know that on a personal level they don't exhibit genuine care for one another. They seem to talk a lot and still get each other's opinions on stuff so there must be a reason for that. For instance, didn't you say you thought of him for In Your Dreams? In that song the guy is really comforting her and calming her nerves and her fears...

Anyway, I don't know who it's about - Lindsey just fit in with the stories I heard.

[mezzoforte]

If it's Tom, Mike or Rick wouldn't the lyric have been "You said, 'even if I left my wife...'"? :shrug:




I like the unfinished aspect to it too.

As far as the car thing - that's the only similarity we know of, but that's like saying they didn't have sex because I didn't see them. But, I'm figuring they did.

Seriously, though along the same lines as one of your recent posts about relationships and the fascination of couples - that's my thought here. Their relationship is so complex and complicated we don't know what might have transpired. We know they fight/fought. But, we also know they were in love and still have a lot of love for one another. It's strange, yes. But, can we say oh this doesn't sound like Lindsey because he's not a comfort to her. Well, I don't think it's fair to say he's never been a comfort to her. I know that when they are working together they have huge differences of opinion. I don't know that on a personal level they don't exhibit genuine care for one another. They seem to talk a lot and still get each other's opinions on stuff so there must be a reason for that. For instance, didn't you say you thought of him for In Your Dreams? In that song the guy is really comforting her and calming her nerves and her fears...

Anyway, I don't know who it's about - Lindsey just fit in with the stories I heard.

I believe it's been well established that Stevie will abandon truth and grammar for the sake of poetry;)

But really, I'm inclined to agree that it's (mostly) about Lindsey. The line about being part of a great romance seems like it must be him, no? She's recalling the amazing experiences she's had--singing for millions and being part of a legendary romance. It didn't have a fairytale ending, but how many people have been in that kind of couple? I have to think that's what she's referring to.

As for the rest of it, I'm really not sure. Lindsey has commented that Stevie seems to change her subject without any notice--it wouldn't shock me if there are several completely different moments, different people all wrapped up into this song. One line might be about LB, the next about Tom Petty (or whoever).

[tabruns]

As for the rest of it, I'm really not sure. Lindsey has commented that Stevie seems to change her subject without any notice--it wouldn't shock me if there are several completely different moments, different people all wrapped up into this song. One line might be about LB, the next about Tom Petty (or whoever).

Yes, hasn't she actually said that sometimes she'll take a line from one poem and then a line from another?

[michelej1]

Seriously, though along the same lines as one of your recent posts about relationships and the fascination of couples - that's my thought here. Their relationship is so complex and complicated we don't know what might have transpired. We know they fight/fought. But, we also know they were in love and still have a lot of love for one another. It's strange, yes. But, can we say oh this doesn't sound like Lindsey because he's not a comfort to her. Well, I don't think it's fair to say he's never been a comfort to her. I know that when they are working together they have huge differences of opinion. I don't know that on a personal level they don't exhibit genuine care for one another. They seem to talk a lot and still get each other's opinions on stuff so there must be a reason for that. For instance, didn't you say you thought of him for In Your Dreams? In that song the guy is really comforting her and calming her nerves and her fears...



I'm not saying that Lindsey has never been a comfort to Stevie. It's not at all like saying they never had sex because I didn't see it, because I'm not even coming close to saying that he never comforted her. She has said that she's known him for so long that he's one of those people that you pick up the phone and you hear their voice and crumble, all the emotions spring forth. Like when you're young and you call your Mom and Dad and you just pour your heart out. When Jess died, I'm sure she reached out to LB and he was comforting.

However, based on everything she has said and sung about their relationship and the feelings it invokes, the song does not fit him at all to me. I especially don't think Lindsey and Stevie were friendly at any time before she got off Klonopin. I think she wishes she had been, but I don't think they were. Of course, I don't necessarily buy that the song is just about an early nineties relationship anyway, so that's not a definitive factor for me. The fact is, she talks about this person using terms and emotions that she's never expressed about Lindsey throughout 4 decades of writing songs about him.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. And I'm not even disagreeing with your posts. Mainly, I'm just agreeing with the posts that say it's not him and setting forth my reasons for that. I'm not trying to persuade anyone who thinks it is him to the other side.


The song could be an amalgamation of several different people anyway.

Michele

[Maria78]

Stevie does introduce him in concert sometimes by saying he helped her at a very difficult time, held her up, is always there for her. Michele

You took the words right out of my mouth, Carlos was the first person I thought of when she said that the song was about someone who stood by her during a difficult time. :nod:

Plus the "still forbidden" part could apply to him since he still tours with her.

[CADreaming]

I'm not saying that Lindsey has never been a comfort to Stevie. It's not at all like saying they never had sex because I didn't see it, because I'm not even coming close to saying that he never comforted her. She has said that she's known him for so long that he's one of those people that you pick up the phone and you hear their voice and crumble, all the emotions spring forth. Like when you're young and you call your Mom and Dad and you just pour your heart out. When Jess died, I'm sure she reached out to LB and he was comforting.

However, based on everything she has said and sung about their relationship and the feelings it invokes, the song does not fit him at all to me. I especially don't think Lindsey and Stevie were friendly at any time before she got off Klonopin. I think she wishes she had been, but I don't think they were. Of course, I don't necessarily buy that the song is just about an early nineties relationship anyway, so that's not a definitive factor for me. The fact is, she talks about this person using terms and emotions that she's never expressed about Lindsey throughout 4 decades of writing songs about him.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. And I'm not even disagreeing with your posts. Mainly, I'm just agreeing with the posts that say it's not him and setting forth my reasons for that. I'm not trying to persuade anyone who thinks it is him to the other side.


The song could be an amalgamation of several different people anyway.

Michele

Sorry, Michele. I must have misread or misinterpreted the comfort thing in your first post (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=972946&postcount=6). I was just trying to say that there's obviously a lot to their relationship we don't necessarily know about - including when they have been close.

I totally agree though - it could be about anyone or a combination. She's strange like that. :)

[Jondalar]

Sorry, Michele. I must have misread or misinterpreted the comfort thing in your first post (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=972946&postcount=6). I was just trying to say that there's obviously a lot to their relationship we don't necessarily know about - including when they have been close.

I totally agree though - it could be about anyone or a combination. She's strange like that. :)

great title for a song or album

[Ghosty]

great title for a song or album

actually, ya! that could be her next cd. i'd love it.

[CADreaming]

great title for a song or album

actually, ya! that could be her next cd. i'd love it.

:lol::lol: Funny guys!!

[Thrown_Down]

Don't ask me why, and I know I'm almost certainly wrong, but the first time I listened to this song, it made me think about Robyn... clearly it's not, although maybe parts are.

I think I'm leaning towards it being about several people, but written with a tighter narrative structure than she usually does with her 'bits and pieces' songs.

[michelej1]

Sorry, Michele. I must have misread or misinterpreted the comfort thing in your first post (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=972946&postcount=6).

By that, I meant that I feel she does derive comfort from him, but doesn't think or express their relationship in terms of him being comforting.

I'm reminded of Mick's book when he says that after Lindsey left the band Stevie didn't know how to be onstage without him there. She was so used to having him around. I think Lindsey's presence on stage with her all those years was comforting to her, but I don't think she would tenderly acknowledge him as being a comfort. I think of someone who you aren't mushy with, just because to express that openly makes you feel vulnerable and needy, when you prefer to be more detached in your dealings with them, because the emotion actually runs so deep.

During the Reno fight, when she was crying, she looked at Lindsey first, but Mick is the one who came and hugged her and then afterwards Lindsey went over and hugged her too, but in a way, to me, their strongest communication occurred when they were staring at each other across the stage than it did when he eventually embraced her. She probably derived more strength from his eyes than his arms.

In the end, I don't perceive the relationship in black or white shades.
Personally, when she told him his songs were perfected and polished like cloisonne boxes and they didn't compare to her rougher songs and he said don't worry that he'd fix that, I think those kind of words did make her feel secure, even though in one sense, I felt it was almost an insult and that the implication was that her songs did need a lot of work, but he was up to the task.

I think being the pale dragon boy always in the background is being a pillar and a comfort, but not the kind she'd describe in FWIW terms.


Michele

[michelej1]

Don't ask me why, and I know I'm almost certainly wrong, but the first time I listened to this song, it made me think about Robyn... clearly it's not, although maybe parts are.

I think I'm leaning towards it being about several people, but written with a tighter narrative structure than she usually does with her 'bits and pieces' songs.

Yes, I think that one chorus quote "even if I leave my girlfriend," makes it seem very specific more like she's telling just one story. Whereas, with the song TISL, it's easy to imagine that she's telling many.

Michele

[WildHearted]

By that, I meant that I feel she does derive comfort from him, but doesn't think or express their relationship in terms of him being comforting.

I'm reminded of Mick's book when he says that after Lindsey left the band Stevie didn't know how to be onstage without him there. She was so used to having him around. I think Lindsey's presence on stage with her all those years was comforting to her, but I don't think she would tenderly acknowledge him as being a comfort. I think of someone who you aren't mushy with, just because to express that openly makes you feel vulnerable and needy, when you prefer to be more detached in your dealings with them, because the emotion actually runs so deep.

During the Reno fight, when she was crying, she looked at Lindsey first, but Mick is the one who came and hugged her and then afterwards Lindsey went over and hugged her too, but in a way, to me, their strongest communication occurred when they were staring at each other across the stage than it did when he eventually embraced her. She probably derived more strength from his eyes than his arms.

In the end, I don't perceive the relationship in black or white shades.
Personally, when she told him his songs were perfected and polished like cloisonne boxes and they didn't compare to her rougher songs and he said don't worry that he'd fix that, I think those kind of words did make her feel secure, even though in one sense, I felt it was almost an insult and that the implication was that her songs did need a lot of work, but he was up to the task.

I think being the pale dragon boy always in the background is being a pillar and a comfort, but not the kind she'd describe in FWIW terms.


Michele

I don't think FWIW is about Lindsey, but I'm just curious what you thought about the verses of In Your Dreams ( a song which I personally took entirely to be about Lindsey) then, regarding Lindsey being a comfort: you calm my nerves when you hold my hand, it feels so fine.. you calm my fears down.. etc.

Also - I can't say I'm familiar with the Reno instance, or either it's just not ringing a bell at this moment. What was that? :confused:

[michelej1]

I don't think FWIW is about Lindsey, but I'm just curious what you thought about the verses of In Your Dreams ( a song which I personally took entirely to be about Lindsey) then, regarding Lindsey being a comfort: you calm my nerves when you hold my hand, it feels so fine.. you calm my fears down.. etc. :

Well, yes, I did relate that to the interview she gave where she said that as they walk out on stage, Lindsey puts both his hands behind his back and then she holds on to his hands. I get the feeling that he is pulling her like a tractor-trailer.:laugh: and yes, I did think it was him and his assurance, making her feel calm.

Also - I can't say I'm familiar with the Reno instance, or either it's just not ringing a bell at this moment. What was that? :confused:

People started fighting in the crowd. Someone in the audience was hurt. I think it happened during Don't Stop, so FM left the stage andwhen they returned for the encore, Stevie was still keyed up about it. That's the show when Lindsey sang part of Goodbye Baby for her. You've probably heard the audio.

Michele

[gldstwmn]

People started fighting in the crowd. Someone in the audience was hurt. I think it happened during Don't Stop, so FM left the stage andwhen they returned for the encore, Stevie was still keyed up about it. That's the show when Lindsey sang part of Goodbye Baby for her. You've probably heard the audio.

Michele

I was listening to an old Mirage tour boot the other night and he does it on there too.

[michelej1]

I was listening to an old Mirage tour boot the other night and he does it on there too.

Oh? Which song did he sing for her during that show?

Michele

[Fiver]

I did read the rehab stay was Dec. '93-Jan. '94. But, the article said it was about "someone whoe stood by her '95." Possibilities are that the article was inaccurate, Stevie herself said '95 and they went with it, she went into rehab more than we know, Lindsey was around her during that period as Ghosty speculated, or just that it's about someone else. I already posted the reason why I thought Lindsey was a candidate for the subject matter.

It's also interesting, as I was researching the time frame, I read she wrote "Love Is" in Jan. '95 after she got out of rehab. I would guess it is probably about the same person.

I think you're onto something. I was watching this 'Love Is' performance and in her introduction for the song she says "It was a brilliant moment, and it saved my life." These two songs seem likely to be about the same person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaq4jP3TbcY

[michelej1]

I don't think FWIW is about Lindsey, but I'm just curious what you thought about the verses of In Your Dreams ( a song which I personally took entirely to be about Lindsey) then, regarding Lindsey being a comfort: you calm my nerves when you hold my hand, it feels so fine.. you calm my fears down.. etc.



Well, after reading the liner notes, I don't think IYD is so much about Lindsey and I think Ghosts Are Gone is about him (even though the lyrics are so nonsensical you can't tell). His songs seem to be talking about a relatively recent break up and with Ghosts Are Gone she is saying that she's had enough and ended a relationship (probably because it caused her harm). So, I'm going to put GAG together with the songs on Lindsey's album now.

Michele

[GODDESS6]

stellar song~ i can't listen to it w/out weeping~ the lyrics...WOW~

[mikebise]

Stevie also said she wrote "Love Is" in August 1995, after her dinner with Tom Petty, urging her to write her own songs (also inspiration for "That Makes Me Stronger"). Stevie said she left that dinner in August 1995 and went home and wrote "Love Is" that night.

Hmmm... Tom standing by her...

Yes, ALL of Stevie's songs can be construed about however we personally want to force them to be about. But Stevie herself makes it clear that "For What It's Worth" is about some other man than LB...

All this LB forcing reminds me of Webmistress:

"Love Is Like A River" - Webmistress says: I think this song is about Lindsey.

"Thousand Days" - Webmistress says: Clearly, this song is about Lindsey.

"Nightbird" - Webmistress says: I think this song is about Lindsey.

"Has Anyone Ever Written Anything For You?" - Webmistress says: Clearly, this song is about Lindsey.

"Julia" - Webmistress says: I think this song is about Lindsey.

"Jane" - Webmistress says: Clearly, this song is about Lindsey.

And on and on, no matter what Stevie herself has to say!
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[CADreaming]

^Obviously I get what you're saying Mike. But, why wouldn't she just say it's about Tom? No biggie... :shrug:

Also, I read she wrote Love Is in January 1995....

[GODDESS6]

whoever it's about, it's gorgeous!!!~

[mikebise]

Based on Stevie's writings and comments about "For What It's Worth", I don't think it's about Tom because of the touring part circa 1994. Carlos? I dunno, but sure as f-ing Hell not LB. :rolleyes:

Stevie uses different dates all the time in her myriad of remembrances, but January 1995 is still one whole year after she left Klonopin detox. I'm not sure why January makes for a certain claim over August. Just doing a quick search shows Stevie using various conflicting timelines about writing "Love Is".

I was just pointing out that she's made a few different timelines in reference to this. And "Love Is" could certainly also be about the "For What It's Worth" Man Who Is Not LB.

[GODDESS6]

i think "you may be the one" is about lindsey:D~

[CADreaming]

Based on Stevie's writings and comments about "For What It's Worth", I don't think it's about Tom because of the touring part circa 1994. Carlos? I dunno, but sure as f-ing Hell not LB. :rolleyes:

Stevie uses different dates all the time in her myriad of remembrances, but January 1995 is still one whole year after she left Klonopin detox. I'm not sure why January makes for a certain claim over August. Just doing a quick search shows Stevie using various conflicting timelines about writing "Love Is".

I was just pointing out that she's made a few different timelines in reference to this. And "Love Is" could certainly also be about the "For What It's Worth" Man Who Is Not LB.

Oh, ok. Well, I politely disagree that it definitely couldn't be about Lindsey. I know you hate him and that's your right! :) But, I certainly understand there are other more obvious choices.

[Rumour0323]

I shouldn't jump in here because for one I haven't even listened to the song yet, however I have read the lyrics...and I haven't gone back into the vault to get all my facts in order...but...I don't care, I'm going to wing it.

If my memory serves me....Stevie wasn't just addicted to Klonipin she was dying. A bit overdramatic? Maybe but girlfriend was in a bad way. Someone told me that she never left the house, that she would be found walking around carrying her dolls as if they were real babies. Like Gonzo......now say what you want about their "love life" or "relationship" as a couple. But it is my belief that Lindsey is probably thee most significant person in Stevie's life other than her father. They are not merely former lovers. He has known her since she was 16 years old. They forged a life and a love and achieved superstardom together. They may have "broken up" but they have never left each other. Just like she said, if something happend to either one of them, the other would be the first person there. I think that is what happend.She went off the deep end and either Lori or her Father called Lindsey and said, "you have to come, you are the only one who can get thru to her. " Lindsey was around that time coming off the bad breakup with Cheri and the lawsuit from the car accident they were in. He I think was in need of rehab himself for alcohol. Love IS in my opinion is exactly about that time. Him saying to her..."You know that I can not stay, yes I know. It has nothing to do with you or with love....oh yes it does." If memory serves me too, I think this rehab stint was a two parter. I think she went somewhere first to detox from the klonopin. I think it was 45 days and that is when her hair turned grey and her skin ....what did she say? Her skin molted or something. I think Lindsey went to detox with her. I think that was the deal, he beat down the door and got her to go, but he had to go with her. I think once the detox part was over he left and went into rehab and so did she. It was quite a process and took some time. As for the "tour". Again my memory is for crap but when she got out someone, with the help of I think her tour manager who's name escapes me now, put together a 4 show gig for her.Just to get her back on stage. There is a boot of one of the shows, somewhere in the east...Ohio maybe. And she looks like she is wearing a wig, her hair does not look like her own. I think that is the "tour" she is referring to.

As for the shipper thing. It's senseless to argue about it. To me this relationship is one of those great loves. It doesn't conform to what we typically see when two people come together and split up. Stevie talks about Lindsey like she owns him, even now. Listen to her interviews....its' Lindsey, this and Lindsey that. You would never know the guy has a wife and three kids. I dont' think she cares much beyond not going so far as to say this song is definitely about him. I think she has enough respect for his kids to know they will read what she writes about their father in the press and not make it too obvious. I also think their relationship now is about nothing but love and great friendship. It's not always about sex, but about a shared history, and what an amazing f'ing history it was. I am sure there are alot of regrets about lost years, things that were never said, or sthings that were said in anger, in a drug infused haze, that they are just now coming to grips with, and trying to make amends for. At the core was a great love affair, when you (they) peel back the layers of 30 years of crap, that is what they are discovering again. So to think that probably one line in every song she has ever written is about Lindsey, I don't think is too far of a stretch. He is her muse and vice versa. It is what it is. Ok well that's my two cents. :laugh:


Well crylove we must have hit post at the same time.

[mikephxaz]

I'm the fool who started this crazy thread and I had heard the same story:confused:

[CastAwayDreamer]

But the thing is, even Stevie has come back years later, after saying a song is about one person, only to finally admit that it's actually about Lindsey. Landslide being a perfect example.

I think for some reason, she doesn't want people to think she's as dependent on Lindsey as she really is. She likes to portray this image of being tough and independent. I'd heard those stories too, back in the day, and if you put all the pieces together, and match them up with the lyrics, it all makes sense. But she's denied her feelings and denied them so much over the years until people refuse to believe anything else is possible, even when she finally admits it herself.

And if you do go back and look at other things she's written and said during the times she's later changed her story about, you can see that she's talking about the same thing, and most of the time, putting the pieces together you can figure out pretty easily that she's talking about Lindsey.

I agree with Rumours0323 in that I'm not a shipper in the sense that I think Lindsey's going to leave Kristen for her and they're going to live happily ever after. I think there's too much standing in the way for that, and no, I'm not talking about Kristen or the kids. But they do have one hell of a story to tell, and I do think they have a very deep love between them. I think there's been a lot to go on within the last several years since Tango, and with both of their lyrics that have come out recently, it almost seems like they're both chomping at the bit to tell the (same) story.


How's that for a first post? LOL

[WideSargassoSea]

First off, Stevie was not just on Klonopin, she was taking a a lot of other pills, drinking heavily, smoking a lot of weed, etc. Basically just self medicating all the time. This was also around the time Stevie was carrying around those realistic looking baby dolls acting like they were real. There's pics of her in airports walking with those "babies". Anyway, she was just in a really bad place mentally, as she has said. Glen said once she locked herself in her room for 3 days and he literally had to knock down the door to get in and she hadn't showered or eaten in days, just a mess. Lori and Jess were a wreck during this time, they just didn't know how to help her and she wouldn't listen to anyone. Apparently, Lori called LB first and asked him to come try to talk to her, that they just didn't know what to do anymore. At first LB said no, that he just couldn't go down that road with her again, it was too much. He had "caught her when she was falling" so many times at that point, and he just couldn't understand what was happening to her. So he said no to Lori. Then Jess called and just broke down on the phone begging for his help. So LB flew to Phoenix and Glen picked him up at the airport. They went back to the house and when he saw Stevie she was holding/rocking that doll, had not been taking care of herself, etc., and LB broke down. Stevie got angry when she saw him and basically started blaming him for everything. Glen said LB begged her to come with him to get help and she refused. She was screaming at him, hitting him, blaming him for everything and Glen said LB just stood there and took it (as he usually does when it comes to Stevie, according to Chris). Chris and Glen have both said that LB is a "saint" at times with her. So the whole thing went on for 2 days, LB begging her to get help, she refusing. Finally, she said she would go if LB would stay with her through the initial detox. At first LB said no, he couldn't watch her go through that, but finally said he would stay with her when he realized she would go no other way. So LB arranged and paid for a private plane with a doctor, nurse and his own shrink to fly down to Phoenix and fly back with them to CA to some extremely exclusive rehab. Apparently, LB paid an exorbitant amount of money for the privilege of staying with her, basically a bribe. Jess was so torn up he didn't visit at all, couldn't bear to see her that way. Chris said they all thought she was going to die. This is when her hair turned grey and she had terrible leg and stomach cramps and couldn't sleep. Lindsey did things for her that she would not allow the nurses to do, help her bathe, use the bathroom, things like that. She wanted and tried to leave the detox multiple times, but LB literally held her down to stop her from leaving. She also had severe shakes, almost like seizures, and he held her during those too. After the bad detox was over and the rehab started, he was involved with everything and came to multiple therapy sessions with her. Chris and Glen have both said that LB was the sole reason she got better, that his love and support made her able to cope with it all. And she came to depend on him a great deal after that. (What you did was, You saved my life, I won't forget it)

Love Is is tied into all this as well. At the end of the rehab, Stevie wanted to start fresh with him in a romantic relationship but LB was hesitant. Not only had they been down that road numerous times and it had never worked long term, but he had serious problems of his own at that time. He was seeing a shrink himself and had developed a serious alcohol dependency. This was around the time he got that DUI. He was also still on again/off again with Cheri (You said, even if I left my girlfriend, picked up my stuff, loaded up my car, came down to your house, with good intentions). But during Stevie's detox and rehab, he put his own problems on hold to take care of her. So she wanted him, he said no. Not never, just not "now". He wanted to get his own head on straight before they went down that road again. She was devastated, but understood. And as is popular opinion, the relationship did resume just prior to The Dance.

Making "Twisted" was kind of a test to see if she still had it and that whole story about how The Dance came to be, LB asking Mick to play drums and it morphed, etc.? That's partly true, but the whole Dance thing was LB's brainchild for Stevie, he didn't want to see her go out that way, with everyone remembering how she was in the early 90's. Of course, it helped his career too, but the whole idea was for Stevie.


This is one of the most compelling stories I've heard about Stevie/Lindsey, and I would like to believe it's true. I certainly would not consider myself a "shipper," but I do feel like Lindsey gets a bad wrap from Stevie fans sometimes (I would count myself among them too). He didn't initially spring to mind when I heard the song...I was much more in the Carlos Rios/Rick Vito camp. If Lindsey did, in fact, go out of his way to display this sort of selfless love and care towards Stevie as CryLove77 says (and for the record, I have no reason to doubt you! :) ), then "For What It's Worth" is an even sweeter thank you note than I already thought it was.

I must point out (for curiosity's sake) that in all the times Stevie has mentioned her Klonopin addiction and subsequent rehab/detox, Lindsey's name has never come up (at least, not to my knowledge). She pretty much put him on blast during the "Rock Family Trees" special (http://youtu.be/6vEMZmX3MKU), which was filmed during the post Klonopin, pre-Dance time period. I'm not so sure I'd relay a story about the big blowout altercation with Lindsey during the Tango in the Night sessions with such anger (even going as far as saying that "my Dad and my brother will kill you") when he'd just "saved her life." Then again, there is a thin line between love and hate and I'm not Stevie Nicks. ;) For all we know, she could have been acting in that interview like she "acted" every night on the Say You Will tour.

In any case, I love "For What It's Worth" and all the theories behind its writing. Hopefully one day it'll all come out in the wash in the form of an extensive autobiography...which I will take a week off work and devote my life to reading.

[jellyman10]

Their relationship just seems like the mother of all bad-timing stories, doesn't it? They just couldn't ever get right at the same time, and now, as LB might be saying on his new album, it's 'The End of Time' and it won't ever happen.

I guess that's the reason why the happy years -- the 'Gypsy' years of that king-size bed and the lamp on the floor and 'nothing else' :lol: -- have such a strong pull in their memories? Because that was when the hooks went so deep into each other that they're still there to this day?

Loz

[mylittledemon]

Because that was when the hooks went so deep into each other that they're still there to this day?

Loz

I think also that they were one another's first "real" love relationship.

I don't know about all of you but on the rare occasion I can't help but think about my "first" and where she is, and what she might be doing... and what might've been.

[jellyman10]

I think also that they were one another's first "real" love relationship.

I don't know about all of you but on the rare occasion I can't help but think about my "first" and where she is, and what she might be doing... and what might've been.

Yep, no doubt. And, like you, I sometimes see my own experience in there, too. But maybe, as a writer, I find myself drawn to them as almost mythological figures, almost Shakespearean. Because theirs is a great story, as in an intense story, with grand themes and sharp twists of plot. And I sometimes wonder if SN views it that way, too - as if she's slightly outside it - like the way she'll say 'Stevie and Lindsey' in the third person? And how LB said she 'romanticizes her own romanticism'?

I also think she's said enough over the years about her philosophy of love to suggest that she could not be happy in a 'normal' relationship. Kind of the opposite of a bored housewife standing daydreaming in the queue at the grocery store, thinking how wonderful it would be to be a beautiful, rich, glamorous movie star, with men falling over themselves to court her? Instead, Stevie is/was that, and her daydreams were of living a quiet family life, cooking dinner and watching TV and helping her kids with their Hallowe'en costumes. But by the time of the Dance, she was 49. So even if she and LB really had given it a go, there weren't going to be any babies coming from the two of them ....

Woops, seem to have wandered a bit. I just find them intriguing, tho. Sorry.

Loz

[nofearonlylove]

This is one of the most compelling stories I've heard about Stevie/Lindsey, and I would like to believe it's true. I certainly would not consider myself a "shipper," but I do feel like Lindsey gets a bad wrap from Stevie fans sometimes (I would count myself among them too). He didn't initially spring to mind when I heard the song...I was much more in the Carlos Rios/Rick Vito camp. If Lindsey did, in fact, go out of his way to display this sort of selfless love and care towards Stevie as CryLove77 says (and for the record, I have no reason to doubt you! :) ), then "For What It's Worth" is an even sweeter thank you note than I already thought it was.

I must point out (for curiosity's sake) that in all the times Stevie has mentioned her Klonopin addiction and subsequent rehab/detox, Lindsey's name has never come up (at least, not to my knowledge). She pretty much put him on blast during the "Rock Family Trees" special (http://youtu.be/6vEMZmX3MKU), which was filmed during the post Klonopin, pre-Dance time period. I'm not so sure I'd relay a story about the big blowout altercation with Lindsey during the Tango in the Night sessions with such anger (even going as far as saying that "my Dad and my brother will kill you") when he'd just "saved her life." Then again, there is a thin line between love and hate and I'm not Stevie Nicks. ;) For all we know, she could have been acting in that interview like she "acted" every night on the Say You Will tour.

In any case, I love "For What It's Worth" and all the theories behind its writing. Hopefully one day it'll all come out in the wash in the form of an extensive autobiography...which I will take a week off work and devote my life to reading.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Rock Family Trees filmed BEFORE Stevie went to rehab for the Klonopin addiction? I've only seen the segment regarding the fight they had when he left the band, and we all know when he left the band she certainly hadn't gone to rehab for the Klonopin yet at that point, so it's totally possible she said all of those things to him. She was obviously VERY angry with him for years.

The mystery surrounding Stevie & Lindsey continues....

Wow.

Smiles :)
Erica

[bombaysaffires]

I thought she said that was That Made Me Stronger, not Love Is....??

[bombaysaffires]

More on For What It's Worth...in her own words

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/the-beat-goes-on/posts/interview-stevie-nicks-talks-in-your-dreams-and-her-greatest-pleasure



You wrote “For What It’s Worth” with Mike Campbell from Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers. How’d that come about?[/B]

I wrote that song in May in Hawaii in 2010. Dave went to England and got stuck in that volcano. So I said, “Well, I’m going to go to Hawaii then.” I went for three weeks. and the day before I came back, I said, I’m going to revisit Mike’s tracks, because he had sent me 10 tracks.

Right when [that track] came on, I just remembered this trip that I had taken in a bus across the United States and this person who had really helped me through this very difficult time. The song starts with the bell ringing like a train and I thought about the bus and, strangely enough, the night before that on PBS was a show about kids riding the rails in the 1940s, they were 14, 15,16 years old, they would catch the trains and go to other cities. I also had a grandfather who told me many stories of riding the rails because he did it, he used to ride the rails and play in bars and play pool.

So I was thinking about my granddad and riding the rails and I was thinking about my bus trip and then I started thinking about this man who had really been like an angel, stepping in and putting the pieces back together at a very bad time in my life and I just started singing this song. I yelled at my assistant, “Get me some paper! Quick!” We’d sent all our recording equipment home the day before so all we had was a camera so we just put it on film

[Jondalar]

There is no change up to this song. It's soo straightforward.

[WildHearted]

So, is this Grandpa AJ or is it someone else?

And I'm just laughing inside at Stevie screaming at Karen to get some paper and then them whipping out a digital camera and filming her singing it so she didn't forget.... thats totally what I do when I make up (very mediocre) songs.

ETA: Jondalar, straightforward musically? Lyrically?

[michelej1]

Their relationship just seems like the mother of all bad-timing stories, doesn't it?

Yes, that's what I get from Lindsey's Stars. When one person is physically, mentally and emotionally available the other isn't. Star-crossed for life.

Michele

[michelej1]

Dave went to England and got stuck in that volcano.

Amusing to think of Dave stuck in a volcano. I know she was meant that the ashes grounded the planes, but the concept still made me laugh.

That gal was on the verge of pulling out her famous, "My father was the Vice President of Greyhound" line again, when she discussed her bus ride.

Michele

[michelej1]

So, is this Grandpa AJ or is it someone else?

And I'm just laughing inside at Stevie screaming at Karen to get some paper and then them whipping out a digital camera and filming her singing it so she didn't forget.... thats totally what I do when I make up (very mediocre) songs.



She sent all their recording equipment home for the day? The recording equipment must be represented by a union that demands the equipment always get a full night's sleep.

I guess that means she rents it, but rents it just for one day at a time?

Michele

[CADreaming]

More on For What It's Worth...in her own words

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/the-beat-goes-on/posts/interview-stevie-nicks-talks-in-your-dreams-and-her-greatest-pleasure



You wrote “For What It’s Worth” with Mike Campbell from Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers. How’d that come about?[/B]

I wrote that song in May in Hawaii in 2010. Dave went to England and got stuck in that volcano. So I said, “Well, I’m going to go to Hawaii then.” I went for three weeks. and the day before I came back, I said, I’m going to revisit Mike’s tracks, because he had sent me 10 tracks.

Right when [that track] came on, I just remembered this trip that I had taken in a bus across the United States and this person who had really helped me through this very difficult time. The song starts with the bell ringing like a train and I thought about the bus and, strangely enough, the night before that on PBS was a show about kids riding the rails in the 1940s, they were 14, 15,16 years old, they would catch the trains and go to other cities. I also had a grandfather who told me many stories of riding the rails because he did it, he used to ride the rails and play in bars and play pool.

So I was thinking about my granddad and riding the rails and I was thinking about my bus trip and then I started thinking about this man who had really been like an angel, stepping in and putting the pieces back together at a very bad time in my life and I just started singing this song. I yelled at my assistant, “Get me some paper! Quick!” We’d sent all our recording equipment home the day before so all we had was a camera so we just put it on film

This was really cool about her grandfather and the rails. Filming the writing of the song is just - different. Too bad that won't ever show up on youtube!

[bombaysaffires]

I think maybe she means they sent the equipment home as in back to her house in California.... She says they sent it home the day before...

[WildHearted]

She sent all their recording equipment home for the day? The recording equipment must be represented by a union that demands the equipment always get a full night's sleep.

I guess that means she rents it, but rents it just for one day at a time?

Michele

Struck me as odd as well :lol:

But after re-reading, it seems that she was in Hawaii on vacation so she brought the recording stuff with her. She wrote the song the day before she was supposed to be going back home, so they'd already sent the equipment and stuff back...

[CADreaming]

So, is this Grandpa AJ or is it someone else?



It would be AJ.

[WildHearted]

It would be AJ.

Yeah, I somehow just caught the part about playing in bars and playing pool, haha.

[bombaysaffires]

...and had her dancing on bars...

[michelej1]

...and had her dancing on bars...

Yeah, no wonder her parents didn't let her go off with her grandfather too much. I always laughed when she said he would sing Party Doll with her, because "make love" just meant woo back then. It didn't mean sex like it does today.

Still, it makes me crinkle a brow.

Well, all I want is a party doll,
to come along with me when I'm feelin' wild.
To be everlovin', true, and fair
to run her fingers through my hair.


Come along and be my party doll.
Come along and be my party doll.
Come along and be my party doll..
and I'll make love to you, to you.
I'll make love to you.

Well, I saw a gal walkin' down the street.
The kind of a gal I'd love to meet.
She had blonde hair and eyes of blue..
Baby, I wanna have a party with you.

[PenguinHead]

Sooner or later this 'shipper' business has GOT to end! There are many many people in her life and many more who have been and gone.Enough with the Lindsey assumptions,it could be about anyone,a man who is not remotely a public figure/musician/etc. Same goes for other songs

Amen! My sentiments. Many have to realize that Stevie has lived a long, rich, private life that we don't know anything about that has nothing to do with Lindsey. Yes, there is their history, but it's largely a working relationship now.

Stevie is known for blatently pandering to the past, which the media loves to court. That's why she references Lindsey as often as she does. And she cultivates the mystery like no other songwriter.

I don't give a sh*t where the inspiration comes from here songs, or it's about this or that person. Stevie, herself, isn't a reliable source; she is very coy and changes stories over the years. What's more important and interesting to me is that her songs are written and sung well, and there is an emotional connection.

[bombaysaffires]

Amen! My sentiments. Many have to realize that Stevie has lived a long, rich, private life that we don't know anything about that has nothing to do with Lindsey. Yes, there is their history, but it's largely a working relationship now.

Stevie is known for blatently pandering to the past, which the media loves to court. That's why she references Lindsey as often as she does. And she cultivates the mystery like no other songwriter.

I don't give a sh*t where the inspiration comes from here songs, or it's about this or that person. Stevie, herself, isn't a reliable source; she is very coy and changes stories over the years. What's more important and interesting to me is that her songs are written and sung well, and there is an emotional connection.

Couldn't agree more. And I'm most assuredly not a "shipper". That said, one can't help but wonder on certain songs if there is indeed a Lindsey connection.

Stevie has been with lots of guys since her breakup -- three decades ago!-- with LB. As Lindsey pointedly remarked in an interview.... "she's been with lots of men since then. LOTS." And she's certainly written about many of them in her songs. I tend to think most of the songs on this album are about these different people.

However, Stevie does continue to dip her toes in the LB-relationship pool. It's been a great dramatic device for her. So there will always be lyrics that pop up that make you go hmmmm......

[CADreaming]

Oh for God's sake.... :rolleyes:

[CastAwayDreamer]

Oh for God's sake.... :rolleyes:


Just count back from ten. :lol:

[mezzoforte]

I've already been called a shipper today, so I want to add a big ol' disclaimer before I so much as dip my pinky toe in these murky waters:

I truly don't believe Stevie and Lindsey are soulmates, that they would still be together if they'd gotten married in the 70's, or that they would get married now and ride off into the sunset if only he would leave Kristen. And I certainly wouldn't want him to leave Kristen--he seems happy, and I'm not actually crazy enough to have personal investments in any of these relationships--especially since I've never met these people!;) I don't even attribute their break-ups to bad timing--I think these two humans just don't quite match up.
I'm also well aware that SL play up their relationship onstage and probably in their writing.

And I'm not at all sure that FWIW is about LB; it could be any of a number of men who were around her at the time and possibly someone we've never heard of. I'm mainly just glad that Stevie's had so much love and support in her life, from so many sources.

But even though these two people weren't "made for each other", the relationship has been a defining one in both of their lives. If FM had split up permanently after Rumours it's fairly likely that they would have gone their separate ways and rarely thought of each other. But they didn't--they've been in and out of each other's lives and have shared a lot of experiences that very few other people could understand. They're not exactly the average couple that's been broken up for 30 years.
Under those circumstances, it doesn't seem crazy that they'd still be writing songs about each other, or that some of us would interpret some songs through that lens.



BTW, this is sort of a general reaction to the attitude that anyone who thinks a song is about Lindsey is, like, a crazy shipper. I'm not sure at all that FWIW is. And really, no one but Stevie can really be sure who any song is about:)

I haven't been on here in years and didn't post much when I was here, but I've been around the boards for years, and with this new album coming out decided to kind of get back in the swing of things. So I guess I'm gonna just jump right into the deep end on this thread.:p So......

I think without a doubt this song is about LB. And I'll tell you why. Now, I'm sure some of the "old timers" around here have heard this story, but it's been pretty "underground" for some years now. This story came in parts from Chris Nicks and Glen Parrish. I'm not saying anything in the story is fact, only that it came from reliable sources at reliable times. So here it is, as I was told.

First off, Stevie was not just on Klonopin, she was taking a a lot of other pills, drinking heavily, smoking a lot of weed, etc. Basically just self medicating all the time. This was also around the time Stevie was carrying around those realistic looking baby dolls acting like they were real. There's pics of her in airports walking with those "babies". Anyway, she was just in a really bad place mentally, as she has said. Glen said once she locked herself in her room for 3 days and he literally had to knock down the door to get in and she hadn't showered or eaten in days, just a mess. Lori and Jess were a wreck during this time, they just didn't know how to help her and she wouldn't listen to anyone. Apparently, Lori called LB first and asked him to come try to talk to her, that they just didn't know what to do anymore. At first LB said no, that he just couldn't go down that road with her again, it was too much. He had "caught her when she was falling" so many times at that point, and he just couldn't understand what was happening to her. So he said no to Lori. Then Jess called and just broke down on the phone begging for his help. So LB flew to Phoenix and Glen picked him up at the airport. They went back to the house and when he saw Stevie she was holding/rocking that doll, had not been taking care of herself, etc., and LB broke down. Stevie got angry when she saw him and basically started blaming him for everything. Glen said LB begged her to come with him to get help and she refused. She was screaming at him, hitting him, blaming him for everything and Glen said LB just stood there and took it (as he usually does when it comes to Stevie, according to Chris). Chris and Glen have both said that LB is a "saint" at times with her. So the whole thing went on for 2 days, LB begging her to get help, she refusing. Finally, she said she would go if LB would stay with her through the initial detox. At first LB said no, he couldn't watch her go through that, but finally said he would stay with her when he realized she would go no other way. So LB arranged and paid for a private plane with a doctor, nurse and his own shrink to fly down to Phoenix and fly back with them to CA to some extremely exclusive rehab. Apparently, LB paid an exorbitant amount of money for the privilege of staying with her, basically a bribe. Jess was so torn up he didn't visit at all, couldn't bear to see her that way. Chris said they all thought she was going to die. This is when her hair turned grey and she had terrible leg and stomach cramps and couldn't sleep. Lindsey did things for her that she would not allow the nurses to do, help her bathe, use the bathroom, things like that. She wanted and tried to leave the detox multiple times, but LB literally held her down to stop her from leaving. She also had severe shakes, almost like seizures, and he held her during those too. After the bad detox was over and the rehab started, he was involved with everything and came to multiple therapy sessions with her. Chris and Glen have both said that LB was the sole reason she got better, that his love and support made her able to cope with it all. And she came to depend on him a great deal after that. (What you did was, You saved my life, I won't forget it)

Love Is is tied into all this as well. At the end of the rehab, Stevie wanted to start fresh with him in a romantic relationship but LB was hesitant. Not only had they been down that road numerous times and it had never worked long term, but he had serious problems of his own at that time. He was seeing a shrink himself and had developed a serious alcohol dependency. This was around the time he got that DUI. He was also still on again/off again with Cheri (You said, even if I left my girlfriend, picked up my stuff, loaded up my car, came down to your house, with good intentions). But during Stevie's detox and rehab, he put his own problems on hold to take care of her. So she wanted him, he said no. Not never, just not "now". He wanted to get his own head on straight before they went down that road again. She was devastated, but understood. And as is popular opinion, the relationship did resume just prior to The Dance.

Making "Twisted" was kind of a test to see if she still had it and that whole story about how The Dance came to be, LB asking Mick to play drums and it morphed, etc.? That's partly true, but the whole Dance thing was LB's brainchild for Stevie, he didn't want to see her go out that way, with everyone remembering how she was in the early 90's. Of course, it helped his career too, but the whole idea was for Stevie.

So, there it is, as I heard it. If you think it's too much private info and should be removed, go for it. I mean no harm, but I get so irritated sometimes when people act like LB is some kind of beast that could never do anything good for her besides help with her music.:D

This? Is an amazing story.

[CADreaming]

Just count back from ten. :lol:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

:xoxo:

[bombaysaffires]

Love this video clip of Tom Petty's comments at 1:02

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_PTfmttSA0

[Serrart]

No idea if it's about him, I've just heard a sample till now, since my IYD copy hasn't arrived yet (and I've been good :angel:), but I have to say, I'm particularly touched by this song.

[CastAwayDreamer]

crylove77...:xoxo:



I wish someone would explain how they decide when to believe what Stevie, Lindsey and the rest of them say, versus when not to believe them. I mean, I've studied her lyrics, read her interviews, watched them interact, and heard stories that I probably (hell, definitely) had no business hearing. If you take ALL of that into consideration, I really don't see how anyone could come up with a different answer than what we have. To each his own, though, I suppose.

[CADreaming]

crylove77...:xoxo:

Ditto this...from the bottom of my still beating shipper heart. Well said. :nod:

[ontheEdgeof17]

Am I the only one who wants her to do the little "It's Late" yell and the end of this song? It fits so well. :lol:

Ahhhck!

[michelej1]

It's crazy! I swear, if I were to say, "I'm Stevie's 2nd cousin on her mother's side, she invited me to travel with them on the Mirage tour, and I SAW her and LB go at it like rabbits on that amplifier", the reply would be "well, that had to have been two people who just looked like SnL".:lol:

Actually, I wouldn't believe Stevie's 2nd cousin on her mother's side. I wouldn't try to explain away what she thought she saw or said she saw, I'd just call her a liar trying to get attention.

But if Barbara Nicks said it, then you know, I'd be all over it.

Michele

[CastAwayDreamer]

It's crazy! I swear, if I were to say, "I'm Stevie's 2nd cousin on her mother's side, she invited me to travel with them on the Mirage tour, and I SAW her and LB go at it like rabbits on that amplifier", the reply would be "well, that had to have been two people who just looked like SnL".:lol:


OMG! :laugh: That's awesome.


Blue Denim really is about a pair of Levi's, ya know.

[CastAwayDreamer]

Actually, I wouldn't believe Stevie's 2nd cousin on her mother's side. I wouldn't try to explain away what she thought she saw or said she saw, I'd just call her a liar trying to get attention.

But if Barbara Nicks said it, then you know, I'd be all over it.

Michele


:lol: The thought of Barbara Nicks witnessing what took place on that amplifier? :eek:

[CADreaming]

It's crazy! I swear, if I were to say, "I'm Stevie's 2nd cousin on her mother's side, she invited me to travel with them on the Mirage tour, and I SAW her and LB go at it like rabbits on that amplifier", the reply would be "well, that had to have been two people who just looked like SnL".:lol:

Hell, there's people who wouldn't believe it if THEY saw them...




Blue Denim really is about a pair of Levi's, ya know.

I knew it! :lol:

[CastAwayDreamer]

Hell, there's people who wouldn't believe it if THEY saw them...




Well, I can't really fault them there. I mean, I don't think *I* would believe it either, if I saw it. :lol:

[CADreaming]

Well, I can't really fault them there. I mean, I don't think *I* would believe it either, if I saw it. :lol:

Too funny!!

[Rumour0323]

Thrown Down...anyone? anyone?

She wrote it for SYW, she confirms it was written about the time during The Dance.


"He fell for her again, she watched it happen."

Lindsey: Who are you talking to?

Stevie: I'm talking to you!


Or the interview before the dance when a reporter asked if they were "back together" and Lindsey said something to the effect of,not yet, or you never know. To which she replied the now infamous "Over my dead body."

Followed by: "He is my First Love, my forever love, but we can never be together."

Followed by: "Joe Walsh is the love of my life." Which I believe she recanted a few days ago, so hang on kids.

Lindsey just told a radio DJ that he and Stevie have "turned a corner, and are closer that they have been in 30 years."

So hang on to your hats kids, it's going to be a bumpy ride!:]

[CastAwayDreamer]

And now you're getting me all hopeful, Rumour0323. :p


"He is my love. My first love, and my love for all time."


Sigh.

[Amlyn]

Maybe it's time to start a Shipper 101 class. Many many things we all have to share.

[Crystal_Elle]

Maybe it's time to start a Shipper 101 class. Many many things we all have to share.

Sign me up.. I'm out of the shipper closet. So I guess I should own it. haha :D

[CreepingDeath]

I haven't been on here in years and didn't post much when I was here, but I've been around the boards for years, and with this new album coming out decided to kind of get back in the swing of things. So I guess I'm gonna just jump right into the deep end on this thread.:p So......

I think without a doubt this song is about LB. And I'll tell you why. Now, I'm sure some of the "old timers" around here have heard this story, but it's been pretty "underground" for some years now. This story came in parts from Chris Nicks and Glen Parrish. I'm not saying anything in the story is fact, only that it came from reliable sources at reliable times. So here it is, as I was told.

First off, Stevie was not just on Klonopin, she was taking a a lot of other pills, drinking heavily, smoking a lot of weed, etc. Basically just self medicating all the time. This was also around the time Stevie was carrying around those realistic looking baby dolls acting like they were real. There's pics of her in airports walking with those "babies". Anyway, she was just in a really bad place mentally, as she has said. Glen said once she locked herself in her room for 3 days and he literally had to knock down the door to get in and she hadn't showered or eaten in days, just a mess. Lori and Jess were a wreck during this time, they just didn't know how to help her and she wouldn't listen to anyone. Apparently, Lori called LB first and asked him to come try to talk to her, that they just didn't know what to do anymore. At first LB said no, that he just couldn't go down that road with her again, it was too much. He had "caught her when she was falling" so many times at that point, and he just couldn't understand what was happening to her. So he said no to Lori. Then Jess called and just broke down on the phone begging for his help. So LB flew to Phoenix and Glen picked him up at the airport. They went back to the house and when he saw Stevie she was holding/rocking that doll, had not been taking care of herself, etc., and LB broke down. Stevie got angry when she saw him and basically started blaming him for everything. Glen said LB begged her to come with him to get help and she refused. She was screaming at him, hitting him, blaming him for everything and Glen said LB just stood there and took it (as he usually does when it comes to Stevie, according to Chris). Chris and Glen have both said that LB is a "saint" at times with her. So the whole thing went on for 2 days, LB begging her to get help, she refusing. Finally, she said she would go if LB would stay with her through the initial detox. At first LB said no, he couldn't watch her go through that, but finally said he would stay with her when he realized she would go no other way. So LB arranged and paid for a private plane with a doctor, nurse and his own shrink to fly down to Phoenix and fly back with them to CA to some extremely exclusive rehab. Apparently, LB paid an exorbitant amount of money for the privilege of staying with her, basically a bribe. Jess was so torn up he didn't visit at all, couldn't bear to see her that way. Chris said they all thought she was going to die. This is when her hair turned grey and she had terrible leg and stomach cramps and couldn't sleep. Lindsey did things for her that she would not allow the nurses to do, help her bathe, use the bathroom, things like that. She wanted and tried to leave the detox multiple times, but LB literally held her down to stop her from leaving. She also had severe shakes, almost like seizures, and he held her during those too. After the bad detox was over and the rehab started, he was involved with everything and came to multiple therapy sessions with her. Chris and Glen have both said that LB was the sole reason she got better, that his love and support made her able to cope with it all. And she came to depend on him a great deal after that. (What you did was, You saved my life, I won't forget it)

Love Is is tied into all this as well. At the end of the rehab, Stevie wanted to start fresh with him in a romantic relationship but LB was hesitant. Not only had they been down that road numerous times and it had never worked long term, but he had serious problems of his own at that time. He was seeing a shrink himself and had developed a serious alcohol dependency. This was around the time he got that DUI. He was also still on again/off again with Cheri (You said, even if I left my girlfriend, picked up my stuff, loaded up my car, came down to your house, with good intentions). But during Stevie's detox and rehab, he put his own problems on hold to take care of her. So she wanted him, he said no. Not never, just not "now". He wanted to get his own head on straight before they went down that road again. She was devastated, but understood. And as is popular opinion, the relationship did resume just prior to The Dance.

Making "Twisted" was kind of a test to see if she still had it and that whole story about how The Dance came to be, LB asking Mick to play drums and it morphed, etc.? That's partly true, but the whole Dance thing was LB's brainchild for Stevie, he didn't want to see her go out that way, with everyone remembering how she was in the early 90's. Of course, it helped his career too, but the whole idea was for Stevie.

So, there it is, as I heard it. If you think it's too much private info and should be removed, go for it. I mean no harm, but I get so irritated sometimes when people act like LB is some kind of beast that could never do anything good for her besides help with her music.:D

It's great to see you around here again. :xoxo:

I've heard similar accounts from posters that are no longer around. BN.net used to be filled with them. Damn Facebook for splitting everyone apart. :p

PM sometime, girl.

[Rumour0323]

And now you're getting me all hopeful, Rumour0323. :p


"He is my love. My first love, and my love for all time."


Sigh.

LOL but she's so damn unreliable.

Tell me this. He sells the mansion that he and the wife hand picked the bricks, and designed the damn doorknobs for. A property he has owned for 30 years. Stevie buys a five bedroom house, then decides she can't live there because it's "really a house for a family". And this was what 3 years ago.:shrug: COME ON!!!! Co-inky-dink? I don't think so!!!

Also the really good stuff, is in the ad libs at the end of the songs on her solo tours. You can always tell if she is pissed at Lindsey or not by how the baby, baby, babys go.

[mezzoforte]

Interesting idea. But it would have to be a covert operation,:p half the **** I've heard, I would never feel comfortable posting. Too personal, IMO.

I'd have to call you a tease if I weren't so grateful for the earlier story you already shared:)

Covert operations can be handled pretty nicely through PMs...*hint*

[CastAwayDreamer]

LOL but she's so damn unreliable.

Tell me this. He sells the mansion that he and the wife hand picked the bricks, and designed the damn doorknobs for. A property he has owned for 30 years. Stevie buys a five bedroom house, then decides she can't live there because it's "really a house for a family". And this was what 3 years ago.:shrug: COME ON!!!! Co-inky-dink? I don't think so!!!

Also the really good stuff, is in the ad libs at the end of the songs on her solo tours. You can always tell if she is pissed at Lindsey or not by how the baby, baby, babys go.


Why can't I find anything I'm searching for tonight? :laugh: Remember how she said there were rooms for all the children in her life. She was so excited about it, you could tell. And then I think he ticked her off about something and suddenly she didn't want to live there anymore.

STILL I am a fool? Yeah...

[CreepingDeath]

:eek: Oh my God, it's Kimberly! I haven't talked to you in ages! How you been?

FB was definitely the death sentence for a lot of great forums. :( I miss the BN board like crazy sometimes.

I'm OK. Not great, but hey, at least I have a new Stevie CD to pick apart.

I'm serious, though We should talk via PM. I think we both have info that's better left not out in the open.

[CreepingDeath]

Sounds good. It's getting late on the East Coast, that's stuff's too "heavy" to get into late night.:p I'll check in with you this weekend.

It's a date. :nod:

[bombaysaffires]

I'm OK. Not great, but hey, at least I have a new Stevie CD to pick apart.

I'm serious, though We should talk via PM. I think we both have info that's better left not out in the open.

well now that's just not faaaaaiiiiiirrrrr... wah:(

[Rumour0323]

Why can't I find anything I'm searching for tonight? :laugh: Remember how she said there were rooms for all the children in her life. She was so excited about it, you could tell. And then I think he ticked her off about something and suddenly she didn't want to live there anymore.

STILL I am a fool? Yeah...

Yes she did say that.

But now she's turned it into a recording studio so good for her. A recording studio and a
circa 1920's Parisian party hangout. But now I read the other day she said she and Lindsey just might go off to Wales and do a BN record. What is with this chick and the moors? She's is Kathy in Wuthering Heights, I swear it. ( I think she got a little to caught up in the Royal Wedding this weekend.)

[CastAwayDreamer]

Yes she did say that.

But now she's turned it into a recording studio so good for her. A recording studio and a
circa 1920's Parisian party hangout. But now I read the other day she said she and Lindsey just might go off to Wales and do a BN record. What is with this chick and the moors? She's is Kathy in Wuthering Heights, I swear it. ( I think she got a little to caught up in the Royal Wedding this weekend.)


LOL! I know, right? Wales. Just....wow. He was an Englishman, ya know. :lol:

[Amlyn]

Interesting idea. But it would have to be a covert operation,:p half the **** I've heard, I would never feel comfortable posting. Too personal, IMO.

I'm OK. Not great, but hey, at least I have a new Stevie CD to pick apart.

I'm serious, though We should talk via PM. I think we both have info that's better left not out in the open.

Of course now you've really piqued my interest. I've read A LOT of what is out there, but it seems as that is only scratching the surface.



Covert operations can be handled pretty nicely through PMs...*hint* Works for me. Although you and i can meet in the city sometime again and really have that conversation that we almost started last night.

[mezzoforte]

Of course now you've really piqued my interest. I've read A LOT of what is out there, but it seems as that is only scratching the surface.


Works for me. Although you and i can meet in the city sometime again and really have that conversation that we almost started last night.

Haha yes! Anytime, girl.

[jellyman10]

well now that's just not faaaaaiiiiiirrrrr... wah:(

I want to know, too! Pretty please? :angel:

[CADreaming]

I'm serious, though We should talk via PM. I think we both have info that's better left not out in the open.

Oh, that's so sad. This is why people think shippers are crazy, it's all so - underground. :distress:

"Only a few around us knew, but no one said a word it was contagious"...

[nofearonlylove]

Oh, that's so sad. This is why people think shippers are crazy, it's all so - underground. :distress:

"Only a few around us knew, but no one said a word it was contagious"...

Hey guys, I actually have a BN board that I made a couple of years ago which is pretty dead over at yuku - I don't want to post the link to it here but PM me if you would like it - I REALLY miss the days of 2003-2004 when shipperdom was ALL OVER the place!

Maybe instead of PMs, you guys can move the conversations there! I know people get skeeved out by the shipper stuff and sometimes it gets tiresome being told to get a life because we love us some S&L lovin'!

I REALLY MISS THE BN community!

Smiles :)
Erica

[CreepingDeath]

Oh, that's so sad. This is why people think shippers are crazy, it's all so - underground. :distress:

"Only a few around us knew, but no one said a word it was contagious"...

^^
That quote is perfect.

It royaly sucks, but after years of vicious fights, it's better kept underground. You can PM me, if you like...

[michelej1]

It royaly sucks, but after years of vicious fights, it's better kept underground. You can PM me, if you like...

Yes, I think that would be good if everyone PM'd.

Michele

[vivfox]

The music to this song reminds me of the music to Octopusses Garden by The Beatles. Anyone else hear this?

[SaidSomething]

I think he's the" Blue gray eyes..." of Blue Denim.

Other than, Carlos Rios...its was Glenn as her manager, assistant of sorts...the guy that held her hand in. A lot of pics (like walking her to the limo...even when I was there for her birthday, Timespace era...he held her hand as if she were fragile and about to fall...like she was blind because during that time she held her head down as if she was trying to becareful about where she was stepping etc...) his eyes were more than a color you would ever see...he did SA and The Dance...and wwasnt he married? The forbidden part?

She said, it was a sad thing she did when she spoke of the regrets she had over hurting this guy (not Kim) and I don't think she would be so bold and blatant about a love affair, so forbidden about someone famous...like Tom Petty or LB as they were married too...

One of my favorite songs on the record...along with 12 others haha...scratch that...Annabell Lee is better read in its original form, in a book, by Poe. I do like her passionate feelings over love affairs and the tragedy. Kind of like Wuthering Heights by Bronte'

[David]

The music to this song reminds me of the music to Octopusses Garden by The Beatles. Anyone else hear this?Not sure. But "Annabel Lee," a track I like the best on the new CD by far, has that groovy, chugga-chugga quality of Tom Petty's "I Won't Back Down."

And of course "In Your Dreams" (the title track) is, in case any of you younger folk missed it, a total copycat tribute to the Heartbreakers albums of the late '70s, like "Damn the Torpedoes" & "You're Gonna Get It" (which were themselves copycat tributes to the Byrds).

[michelej1]

Kind of like Wuthering Heights by Bronte'

Yes, I laughed when she compared her and Dave on the stair in Secret Love to Wuthering Heights. I wonder if that makes Mick their Edgar.

Michele

[SaidSomething]

Yes, I laughed when she compared her and Dave on the stair in Secret Love to Wuthering Heights. I wonder if that makes Mick their Edgar.

Michele

I never heard her say this???! Was it in one of her hundred different interviews filmed in front of the fireplace? Did anyone notice this? So many press people...I wonder if a lot was pre done for a press kit.

[michelej1]

I never heard her say this???! Was it in one of her hundred different interviews filmed in front of the fireplace? Did anyone notice this? So many press people...I wonder if a lot was pre done for a press kit.

I think she said this in the video for the Extra interview. She laughed at Dave sitting there with his hand in his head and she said she sweeps by him up the stairs like Cathy.

Michele

[chiliD]

You took the words right out of my mouth, Carlos was the first person I thought of when she said that the song was about someone who stood by her during a difficult time. :nod:

Plus the "still forbidden" part could apply to him since he still tours with her.

Well, there's gotta be SOME reason she's been so loyal to Carlos the past couple of decades...it's SURELY not because of his guitar playing. :eek:

[fumidesigns]

Well, there's gotta be SOME reason she's been so loyal to Carlos the past couple of decades...it's SURELY not because of his guitar playing. :eek:

oh my word.........Carlos huh?

[chiliD]

It's official...



I really like the entire In Your Dreams album.



There....I said it.


Yep, chiliD actually said something nice about Stevie Nicks.


Sure, go ahead & circle the date on the calendar and throw it back in my face when I go through my anti-Stevie phases again.

[CADreaming]

Well, there's gotta be SOME reason she's been so loyal to Carlos the past couple of decades...it's SURELY not because of his guitar playing. :eek:

:laugh: Another good point!

[skcin]

Well, there's gotta be SOME reason she's been so loyal to Carlos the past couple of decades...it's SURELY not because of his guitar playing. :eek:

LOL

It's official...

I really like the entire In Your Dreams album.

There....I said it.

Yep, chiliD actually said something nice about Stevie Nicks.

Sure, go ahead & circle the date on the calendar and throw it back in my face when I go through my anti-Stevie phases again.

The first step is admitting it. :angel:

[Tango]

It's official...



I really like the entire In Your Dreams album.



There....I said it.


Yep, chiliD actually said something nice about Stevie Nicks.


Sure, go ahead & circle the date on the calendar and throw it back in my face when I go through my anti-Stevie phases again.

I've come to expect a little more detailed criticism from you than that.

You said something nice about the album--not about Stevie Nicks! :laugh:

[chiliD]

I've come to expect a little more detailed criticism from you than that.

Some people are just hard to please...:lol:

You said something nice about the album--not about Stevie Nicks! :laugh:

It's her album...it's all the same....all the same...all the same....RHIANNON!!!!! (sorry, got carried away)

[jellyman10]

It's her album...it's all the same....all the same...all the same....RHIANNON!!!!! (sorry, got carried away)

:lol: Cute.

[michelej1]

I've come to expect a little more detailed criticism from you than that.



That's true Chili. Which songs stood out for you? We've identified Mick on two songs (Secret Love and Annabel Lee) do you hear him elsewhere?

Which songs will you be playing at your own gigs? Which made you cry?

Michele

[fumidesigns]

It's her album...it's all the same....all the same...all the same....RHIANNON!!!!! (sorry, got carried away)

i'm so loving this!!!! lmaoooooooooooo!

[chiliD]

I dunno...I think somebody spiked my Diet Coke with "chiffon juice" or something. I haven't a "critical" thing to say about her new album. I just dig it, from beginning to end. I'm not even at the point of dissecting the songs trying to figure out who played what (although, I THINK I hear Mick on drums in "Soldier's Angel"...if that'd have a prominent John McVie bass line, it pretty much would be a Fleetwood Mac tune; Lindsey's harmonies are the best I've heard him sing with Stevie since before Ronald Reagan became POTUS). Sorry to disappoint.


Stevie's voice sounds GREAT throughout the album (THERE, I said something nice about Stevie herself)....kudos to Dave Stewart & his production "un-goat-ing" her voice...now why couldn't the plethora of other producers she's had since '85 do that? Hmmmm? Lindsey? What do you have to say about that????

After hearing this album..I hope to hell that the rest of Fleetwood Mac decides to have Dave produce their next (their final?) album.

Jeez, like the Prince song "Damned If I Do; Damned If I Don't". I feel like I'm getting as much flak for being all giddy about this album as if I'd come on here and flamed it. I just don't get you people anymore. :shrug: I would've thought you'd all be cheering "YAY! ChiliD finally came back from the Darkside!!" But, no...I STILL get the Third Degree. :confused:

To respond to Michele's interrogation:

None of the musical situations I'm in at the present time would lend themselves to covering a Stevie song (maybe a Peter Green era FMac song would be about as close as it would get).

Oh, hell...are you Barbara Walters-ing me into admitting to crying over a song??? Well, ok...I didn't "cry" per se...but I did get a little "watery-eyed" in a few spots, but I don't remember exactly which songs..."Italian Summer" may have triggered some slight "waterworks"...but then I get weepy over the Allman Bros Band's Live At The Fillmore version of "Whipping Post", too...so, it means nothing. :laugh:

[jellyman10]

^^^ Nooooo, I think it's nice what you said. I like it when people are honest, even if it means saying something unexpected. I love open-mindedness. :blob1:

[Tango]

I dunno...I think somebody spiked my Diet Coke with "chiffon juice" or something. I haven't a "critical" thing to say about her new album. I just dig it, from beginning to end. I'm not even at the point of dissecting the songs trying to figure out who played what (although, I THINK I hear Mick on drums in "Soldier's Angel"...if that'd have a prominent John McVie bass line, it pretty much would be a Fleetwood Mac tune; Lindsey's harmonies are the best I've heard him sing with Stevie since before Ronald Reagan became POTUS). Sorry to disappoint.


Stevie's voice sounds GREAT throughout the album (THERE, I said something nice about Stevie herself)....kudos to Dave Stewart & his production "un-goat-ing" her voice...now why couldn't the plethora of other producers she's had since '85 do that? Hmmmm? Lindsey? What do you have to say about that????

After hearing this album..I hope to hell that the rest of Fleetwood Mac decides to have Dave produce their next (their final?) album.

Jeez, like the Prince song "Damned If I Do; Damned If I Don't". I feel like I'm getting as much flak for being all giddy about this album as if I'd come on here and flamed it. I just don't get you people anymore. :shrug: I would've thought you'd all be cheering "YAY! ChiliD finally came back from the Darkside!!" But, no...I STILL get the Third Degree. :confused:

To respond to Michele's interrogation:

None of the musical situations I'm in at the present time would lend themselves to covering a Stevie song (maybe a Peter Green era FMac song would be about as close as it would get).

Oh, hell...are you Barbara Walters-ing me into admitting to crying over a song??? Well, ok...I didn't "cry" per se...but I did get a little "watery-eyed" in a few spots, but I don't remember exactly which songs..."Italian Summer" may have triggered some slight "waterworks"...but then I get weepy over the Allman Bros Band's Live At The Fillmore version of "Whipping Post", too...so, it means nothing. :laugh:


Thank you for all of your comments. I enjoyed reading them. You're a musician, so people are interested in what you have to say in all of this. I also hope Stewart considers working with Fleetwood Mac. They've been a Brit short the last few years-- maybe that's what they've needed more than another woman. And they would be getting someone that likes to work with Stevie, and she doesn't seem to flinch so much at his suggestions. It's a win-win.

[PenguinHead]

I am adding a new verb word to my vocabulary: De-goat.

[michelej1]

None of the musical situations I'm in at the present time would lend themselves to covering a Stevie song (maybe a Peter Green era FMac song would be about as close as it would get).


Yeah, I didn't think so. I was just goading you. Although your audience might want to hear Cheaper Than Free.

Michele

[chiliD]

Yeah, I didn't think so. I was just goading you. Although your audience might want to hear Cheaper Than Free.

Michele

Well, actually, I subbed for the guitarist in a friend's band a few weeks ago (they have a female singer), we DID "Rhiannon" and rehearsed "Gold Dust Woman", "Landslide" & "Edge Of 17", but at the last second at the gig, she chickened out of doing ANY of the latter 3. :shrug: Ended up doing a kicka$$ version of Joan Osborne's "One Of Us" instead. I'm sure that if they hear the new album, there might be a couple of tunes off of In Your Dreams they could do (namely "Wide Sargasso Sea" & "Ghosts Are Gone" would fit the rest of their repetoire like a glove).

[Newzchspy]

Stevie said it is about the person who stayed with her in 1993 and 94, when she was fat and everything was falling apart and she thought she was going to die. This person believed in her and stayed with her and saved her life.

Wasn't this her friend Glenn??

[skcin]

I dunno...I think somebody spiked my Diet Coke with "chiffon juice" or something. I haven't a "critical" thing to say about her new album. I just dig it, from beginning to end. I'm not even at the point of dissecting the songs trying to figure out who played what (although, I THINK I hear Mick on drums in "Soldier's Angel"...if that'd have a prominent John McVie bass line, it pretty much would be a Fleetwood Mac tune; Lindsey's harmonies are the best I've heard him sing with Stevie since before Ronald Reagan became POTUS). Sorry to disappoint.


Stevie's voice sounds GREAT throughout the album (THERE, I said something nice about Stevie herself)....kudos to Dave Stewart & his production "un-goat-ing" her voice...now why couldn't the plethora of other producers she's had since '85 do that? Hmmmm? Lindsey? What do you have to say about that????

After hearing this album..I hope to hell that the rest of Fleetwood Mac decides to have Dave produce their next (their final?) album.

Jeez, like the Prince song "Damned If I Do; Damned If I Don't". I feel like I'm getting as much flak for being all giddy about this album as if I'd come on here and flamed it. I just don't get you people anymore. :shrug: I would've thought you'd all be cheering "YAY! ChiliD finally came back from the Darkside!!" But, no...I STILL get the Third Degree. :confused:

To respond to Michele's interrogation:

None of the musical situations I'm in at the present time would lend themselves to covering a Stevie song (maybe a Peter Green era FMac song would be about as close as it would get).

Oh, hell...are you Barbara Walters-ing me into admitting to crying over a song??? Well, ok...I didn't "cry" per se...but I did get a little "watery-eyed" in a few spots, but I don't remember exactly which songs..."Italian Summer" may have triggered some slight "waterworks"...but then I get weepy over the Allman Bros Band's Live At The Fillmore version of "Whipping Post", too...so, it means nothing. :laugh:

Well I am overcome! :shocked:


:thumbsup:

[chiliD]

I am adding a new verb word to my vocabulary: De-goat.

I want regular royalty payments! :wavey:

[David]

I want regular royalty payments! :wavey:You're disappointing me.

[CADreaming]

Well, for what it's worth:

Nicks admitted herself to the Daniel Freeman Memorial Hospital in Venice Beach. It took her 47 days to detox. 'Dallas Taylor, the drummer for Crosby, Stills and Nash, was there the whole time. I nearly died. I moulted. My hair turned grey. My skin started to completely peel off. I was in terrible pain.' She shivers at the memory.

Fyi:

Taylor Intervention, Interventionist
Beverly Hills, California
Dallas Taylor, former drummer of Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, is a renowned drug and alcoholism interventionist who devotes his time to working with recovering addicts and their families.

Awesome. This song takes on a new meaning for me now. I am thankful to this dude and it makes me have hope for my family members who are struggling.

[WildHearted]

So THAT's the drummer, and not the other guy. Thanks for clarifying.

[CADreaming]

So THAT's the drummer, and not the other guy. Thanks for clarifying.

And, THAT'S also why it's called "For What It's Worth"! :)


I'm guessing there was an intervention of some sort - it's what Dallas Taylor does. He had a liver transplant and has been drug free for 25 years. He says on is site: "Then, I was the original drummer for Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young (America’s Beatles). Now, I am an interventionist in LA California; For the past 24 years I have worked in the field of Addiction and I help people with alcohol and chemical dependency."

[sodascouts]

Mystery solved! Thanks, CADreaming. I wonder if they were romantically involved? My first instinct is to say "no" because of the circumstances, but the song implies it.

[WildHearted]

Guess that answers the question about Stevie being aware of the confusion between this and the other 'For What It's Worth.' Intentional!

[CADreaming]

Mystery solved! Thanks, CADreaming. I wonder if they were romantically involved? My first instinct is to say "no" because of the circumstances, but the song implies it.

You're right, it does. I highly doubt it - jmo of course. I venture to say she's speaking to someone else in those lines of the song, as she is apt to do. :)

[CADreaming]

Guess that answers the question about Stevie being aware of the confusion between this and the other 'For What It's Worth.' Intentional!

Totally! And, cleverly executed, I might add.

[sodascouts]

All this LB forcing reminds me of Webmistress:

"Love Is Like A River" - Webmistress says: I think this song is about Lindsey.

"Thousand Days" - Webmistress says: Clearly, this song is about Lindsey.

"Nightbird" - Webmistress says: I think this song is about Lindsey.

"Has Anyone Ever Written Anything For You?" - Webmistress says: Clearly, this song is about Lindsey.

"Julia" - Webmistress says: I think this song is about Lindsey.

"Jane" - Webmistress says: Clearly, this song is about Lindsey.

And on and on, no matter what Stevie herself has to say!
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Mmmmkay. Just saw this. If you think so little of my speculations, I wonder why you take the trouble to read them. It's not as if I posted them here. I also don't appreciate the misrepresentations - you know very well I did not say all those songs are about Lindsey - but I guess presenting it more realistically wouldn't be as funny. :)

For the very few who are curious as to what we're talking about, here they are:
Love Is Like a River (http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/sn/streetangel/loveislikeariver.html) | Thousand Days (http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/sn/enchanted/thousanddays.html) | Nightbird (http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/sn/wildheart/nightbird.html) | Has Anyone Ever Written Anything for You (http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/sn/rockalittle/hasanyoneeverwritten.html) | Julia (http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/sn/unreleased/julia.html) | Jane (http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/sn/streetangel/jane.html)

BTW I was planning on closing my BN board and had announced as much, but if anyone cares to post about this kind of thing on there, feel free. I'm willing to keep it open if there's interest.

And yes, I believe there are songs on In Your Dreams about Lindsey... just not this one.

[mikebise]

You're absolutely right, Nancy. I'm very sorry for my rudeness and sarcasm.

Since that post, I'd backed out of the discussion, but I should have apologized to everyone here as well. I'm very sorry for devaluing others' opinions of Stevie's works. My opinion is no more valid than anyone else's and I'm truly sorry for having been so careless towards others' feelings.

[SapphireSister]

BTW I was planning on closing my BN board and had announced as much, but if anyone cares to post about this kind of thing on there, feel free. I'm willing to keep it open if there's interest.


Awww Nancy I have always loved your site and will be very sad it see it go if that's the case. You have done a wonderful job of keeping it up and running for a long time and on behalf of all the people who have visited over the years we thank you! I love your streaming demos and your site will always be a part of my Stevie Nicks history.

[sodascouts]

Thanks for the gracious apology, Mike!

SS - no fear - my site will remain open. :)

You know, thinking about this song in terms of rehab has really given it a new dimension for me.

I still get a bit annoyed at the incomplete thought of the chorus... "even if" what? I also think that entire part goes on too long. However, I love the verses, and I especially love how she sings "I look at you and I start to cry; What you did was - you saved my life; I won't forget it." Moving.

[mikebise]

Some of Stevie's most moving lyrics ever, IMO.

A beautiful song, so full of depth and oceans of meaning. Lots to think about.

[bombaysaffires]

Mystery solved! Thanks, CADreaming. I wonder if they were romantically involved? My first instinct is to say "no" because of the circumstances, but the song implies it.

I'm guessing they were... references to a 'great romance, still forbidden'. Romantic involvement between anyone who works with addicts and the addict is indeed not professionally allowed. Stevie is a free spirit from the 60s and as she recently said in her diplomatic way, "I"ve had a LOT of 'romance' in my life..."

[PenguinHead]

I think a line in Julia is mis-heard/mistaken. It reads "I would cry to be moved." That's a very odd interpretation, and would be a very odd line.

I always heard it as "I would cry to the moon." She pronounces "the" as "thee."

[PenguinHead]

Well, what Stevie says the song is about doesn't matter that much to me, since she's also said that Blue Denim was not about him and then said it was. Both statements were probably equally correct.

But to me, the lyrics in FWIW don't sound anything like a description of what she had with Lindsey. Sounds like Tom Petty to me. Either Petty or someone we don't know about at all, since their relationship was a secret, forbidden.

Michele

Though Stevie has long history and strong bond to Lindsey, it seems many people, in their attempts to disect the meanings of her songs, defaults to Lindsey. No doubt that many of her songs have some connection to him, but this woman has lived a very long, rich and colorful private life outside the realms of Lindsey. I would tend to think that some of her lyrics are inspired by other people and experiences besides Lindsey. It would be very pathetic to think that wasn't the case.

[CADreaming]

I'm guessing they were... references to a 'great romance, still forbidden'. Romantic involvement between anyone who works with addicts and the addict is indeed not professionally allowed. Stevie is a free spirit from the 60s and as she recently said in her diplomatic way, "I"ve had a LOT of 'romance' in my life..."

If the "great romance" is "Still forbidden, Still outrageous", then that indicates the relationship is ongoing. I don't believe she had an affair with her counselor and I don't believe he would have jeopardized her sobriety and his professional integrity by allowing something like that to happen. I think she's talking to two different people - her love interest and the drug interventionist.

[michelej1]

If the "great romance" is "Still forbidden, Still outrageous", then that indicates the relationship is ongoing.

Ha. Maybe it's just still taboo, because you still aren't supposed to be sleeping with your therapist, or your priest, or your teacher, or your lawyer -- or your father.

Even if it happened more than 15 years ago, people would still be shocked by the revelation, as Mackenzie Phillips' book disclosures established.


Michele

[sodascouts]

I think a line in Julia is mis-heard/mistaken. It reads "I would cry to be moved." That's a very odd interpretation, and would be a very odd line.

I always heard it as "I would cry to the moon." She pronounces "the" as "thee."

Interesting. You could be right. It wouldn't be the first time I've misheard a demo lyric. Heck, I just found out that "Secret Love" is "Must secret loves secretly die" when she put out the lyrics booklet to In Your Dreams.

Re: the love song aspect of "For What It's Worth," I see no reason to believe she's talking about two different people in the song; she gives no indication lyrically that the "you" she's addressing isn't one person throughout. As I've said before, though, it could just be emotional intimacy.... or that his help enabled her to continue to live that kind of life where she got to sing, dance, and be a part of a great romance.

[CADreaming]

Ha. Maybe it's just still taboo, because you still aren't supposed to be sleeping with your therapist, or your priest, or your teacher, or your lawyer -- or your father.

Even if it happened more than 15 years ago, people would still be shocked by the revelation, as Mackenzie Phillips' book disclosures established.


Michele

That's funny.... and gross.

[michelej1]

That's funny.... and gross.

Kidding aside, the unauthorized aspect could cover the outrageous and forbidden lines, but Nancy just made me think of the "great romance" part of it again and that doesn't sound like the drummer. Great romance sounds more like a rather epic Scarlett/Rhett type relationship.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Kidding aside, the unauthorized aspect could cover the outrageous and forbidden lines, but Nancy just made me think of the "great romance" part of it again and that doesn't sound like the drummer. Great romance sounds more like a rather epic Scarlett/Rhett type relationship.

Michele

Well, besides the point that I don't think Dallas Taylor would jeopardize his job, professional integrity and her sobriety, yes I that's what I meant - she's not saying her drug counselor was the great romance she was/is a part of and therefore whoever she is referring to as the other part of the great romance is the person who said, "even if I left my girlfriend"... just my take on it...

[michelej1]

Well, besides the point that I don't think Dallas Taylor would jeopardize his job, professional integrity and her sobriety, yes I that's what I meant - she's not saying her drug counselor was the great romance she was/is a part of and therefore whoever she is referring to as the other part of the great romance is the person who said, "even if I left my girlfriend"... just my take on it...

I don't have an opinion on what the drummer she was talking about would have done, what lines he would have crossed, etc., but I do see the mismatch you've pinpointed, in that not all of the lyrics seem to apply to the person she described in that clip. "Great romance" seems to have a more monumental implication. I hear it as saying more than, "you helped me through a bad time," but instead expressing something about the power and thrill of the romance itself (not just the relationship).

On the other hand, I could be reading too much into it and interpreting "great" more literally than it was intended. She could mean great romance as in "great popsicle, very cold and fudgy." Whereas, I am hearing the word as defining a liaison that was large, encompassing, almost historic.

Michele

[SapphireSister]

OMG I just realized it sounds like Rose Garden. Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!

[michelle2677]

Must say the first person I thought of when I heard this song was Mick. :eek:

me too, but i've always been a mick/stevie closet shipper. i think even though lindsey was always the strong pillar in her life, mick was more comforting and tender. of course now after reading through this ENTIRE thread :laugh: idk.

I agree. The "great romance" is the life she's had at the top of the rock & roll world. That would include relationships, but it means so much more.

This was a song that, when I first heard it, I enjoyed the casualness of it. It seemed genuine, too. But it never made me think of Lindsey--it made me think of the recent life of a close friend of mine, so I sent the song to her because I knew she'd know exactly what I was thinking.

To me, it gets really boring & constraining to think of everything Stevie writes in terms of Lindsey's effect on her. If that were all true, that would be a really boring--and yet still psychotically obsessed--life. I think Stevie's life--even the parts she remembers--was a lot more exciting than that.

Look at Stevie in my sig. It's September 24, 1983, at Irvine Meadows Amphitheatre. See the smile on her face? That's her great romance. It's Joe & Mick & Don & Lindsey & Sharon & the Wild Heart tour & Europe & Australia & concerts & audiences & fans & songs on the radio & People magazine covers & rock bands & all of life wrapped up in a moment of adrenaline.

i don't know if you were full of sh*t when you wrote this but i agree with every word.


Awww Nancy I have always loved your site and will be very sad it see it go if that's the case. You have done a wonderful job of keeping it up and running for a long time and on behalf of all the people who have visited over the years we thank you! I love your streaming demos and your site will always be a part of my Stevie Nicks history.


ME TOO!!!:blob1: i first got into fm in 2000, but a few years later i was in college and i remember going to the computer lab and looking up lyrics. i stumbled upon her speculation section and i was hooked. i would stay there all evening just reading every word people had written. that's where i heard frozen love for the first time as well. hell, i still go there when i need to double-check lyrics or track listings on albums :)


First off, Stevie was not just on Klonopin, she was taking a a lot of other pills, drinking heavily, smoking a lot of weed, etc. Basically just self medicating all the time. This was also around the time Stevie was carrying around those realistic looking baby dolls acting like they were real. There's pics of her in airports walking with those "babies". Anyway, she was just in a really bad place mentally, as she has said. Glen said once she locked herself in her room for 3 days and he literally had to knock down the door to get in and she hadn't showered or eaten in days, just a mess. Lori and Jess were a wreck during this time, they just didn't know how to help her and she wouldn't listen to anyone. Apparently, Lori called LB first and asked him to come try to talk to her, that they just didn't know what to do anymore. At first LB said no, that he just couldn't go down that road with her again, it was too much. He had "caught her when she was falling" so many times at that point, and he just couldn't understand what was happening to her. So he said no to Lori. Then Jess called and just broke down on the phone begging for his help. So LB flew to Phoenix and Glen picked him up at the airport. They went back to the house and when he saw Stevie she was holding/rocking that doll, had not been taking care of herself, etc., and LB broke down. Stevie got angry when she saw him and basically started blaming him for everything. Glen said LB begged her to come with him to get help and she refused. She was screaming at him, hitting him, blaming him for everything and Glen said LB just stood there and took it (as he usually does when it comes to Stevie, according to Chris). Chris and Glen have both said that LB is a "saint" at times with her. So the whole thing went on for 2 days, LB begging her to get help, she refusing. Finally, she said she would go if LB would stay with her through the initial detox. At first LB said no, he couldn't watch her go through that, but finally said he would stay with her when he realized she would go no other way. So LB arranged and paid for a private plane with a doctor, nurse and his own shrink to fly down to Phoenix and fly back with them to CA to some extremely exclusive rehab. Apparently, LB paid an exorbitant amount of money for the privilege of staying with her, basically a bribe. Jess was so torn up he didn't visit at all, couldn't bear to see her that way. Chris said they all thought she was going to die. This is when her hair turned grey and she had terrible leg and stomach cramps and couldn't sleep. Lindsey did things for her that she would not allow the nurses to do, help her bathe, use the bathroom, things like that. She wanted and tried to leave the detox multiple times, but LB literally held her down to stop her from leaving. She also had severe shakes, almost like seizures, and he held her during those too. After the bad detox was over and the rehab started, he was involved with everything and came to multiple therapy sessions with her. Chris and Glen have both said that LB was the sole reason she got better, that his love and support made her able to cope with it all. And she came to depend on him a great deal after that. (What you did was, You saved my life, I won't forget it)

Love Is is tied into all this as well. At the end of the rehab, Stevie wanted to start fresh with him in a romantic relationship but LB was hesitant. Not only had they been down that road numerous times and it had never worked long term, but he had serious problems of his own at that time. He was seeing a shrink himself and had developed a serious alcohol dependency. This was around the time he got that DUI. He was also still on again/off again with Cheri (You said, even if I left my girlfriend, picked up my stuff, loaded up my car, came down to your house, with good intentions). But during Stevie's detox and rehab, he put his own problems on hold to take care of her. So she wanted him, he said no. Not never, just not "now". He wanted to get his own head on straight before they went down that road again. She was devastated, but understood. And as is popular opinion, the relationship did resume just prior to The Dance.

Making "Twisted" was kind of a test to see if she still had it and that whole story about how The Dance came to be, LB asking Mick to play drums and it morphed, etc.? That's partly true, but the whole Dance thing was LB's brainchild for Stevie, he didn't want to see her go out that way, with everyone remembering how she was in the early 90's. Of course, it helped his career too, but the whole idea was for Stevie.

i know there is probably a very good reason why you deleted all of your posts in this thread and i can remove this if needed but i figured someone else had quoted you so no harm.

it's 10:30 am now but when i read this it was about 45 minutes ago. i have to say i literally cried when i read this. i knew stevie was bad but i had no idea it was like this. i've always been a s/l shipper too, but more in an unhealthy way. meaning i think lindsey and stevie were very toxic to each other (that love/hate thing) and even though i love them together in a hypothetical sense, realistically i think it's a bad idea. so after reading this (it doesn't change how i feel about them not needing to be together) i have a little more compassion for their relationship and there were moments where they really good for each other. the problem is, they just couldn't stay that way for long.

[llb]

To me "the Great Romance" means Rock & Roll, like living the dream.

[BrownEyedGirl26]

Wasn't this her friend Glenn??

It could, very well, be Glen Parrish! He is an Australian, and has been a friend to her for a very long time. I think he was her manager at one time or another but I could be mistaken about that! I thought I remembered reading about it a long time ago!

[sodascouts]

Thanks for the kind words, michelle!

As for the incident described by crylove77, I think it might be a bit exaggerated. Of course I have no personal knowledge here, but just using common sense, that scenario seems pretty far-fetched. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Lindsey was involved in an intervention (although there's no proof of even that), because he obviously cares deeply for her. However, this whole Saint Lindsey being the only one who could help her, having to stay with her every minute, shooing away nurses and tending personally to her most intimate needs at her insistence, even holding her down bodily (gotta have at least one scene where Stevie is writhing under Lindsey)... all of that is straight up fanfic's melodramatic alley.

I'm not calling anyone a liar; these kind of fifth-hand stories often get distorted. You gotta take what you read on the internets with a grain of salt!

Just my admittedly uninformed opinion. :)

[CADreaming]

Thanks for the kind words, michele!

As for the incident described by crylove77, I think it might be a bit exaggerated. Of course I have no personal knowledge here, but just using common sense, that scenario seems pretty far-fetched. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Lindsey was involved in an intervention (although there's no proof of even that), because he obviously cares deeply for her. However, this whole Saint Lindsey being the only one who could help her, having to stay with her every minute, shooing away nurses and tending personally to her most intimate needs at her insistence, even holding her down bodily (gotta have at least one scene where Stevie is writhing under Lindsey)... all of that is straight up fanfic's melodramatic alley.

I'm not calling anyone a liar; these kind of fifth-hand stories often get distorted. You gotta take what you read on the internets with a grain of salt!

Just my admittedly uninformed opinion. :)

If it was true though, it sure would make their ongoing connection make a lot more sense wouldn't it? I mean, other than the mutual money grabbing scheme they're partners in...

[michelej1]

even holding her down bodily (gotta have at least one scene where Stevie is writhing under Lindsey)...

Thrown down.:laugh:

I agree it's fantasy. Michele

[michelej1]

If it was true though, it sure would make their ongoing connection make a lot more sense wouldn't it? I mean, other than the mutual money grabbing scheme they're partners in...

I feel, and I have thought this ever since I realized that Archie really did love Meathead deep down, that there is no way not to have a connection with someone you've been working with from the ages of 16/17.

I can't look at them and not get emotional thinking, "Oh yeah, that's Soldier's Angel in 2011, but they were together singing something in 1971 as well."

In a way, they were doing then what they're doing now and they've gone from a time when no one was listening to them to having the world applaud. They're the only two who have made that journey beginning to end. The only two who know what it feels like. They know what it sounds like.

Of course, there's a bond there. Their ongoing connection makes perfect sense to me. You don't have to save each other's lives. Love saves. Unconditional love saves. And to me, unconditional isn't always, "I would do anything for you." Sometimes, it's just, "unfortunately, there's nothing you could do that would make me not love you." Love is great in a romantic, tender joyous sense, but I like it in the more resigned "yeah, I can't shake that freak" sense as well.

Michele

[CADreaming]

I feel, and I have thought this ever since I realized that Archie really did love Meathead deep down, that there is no way not to have a connection with someone you've been working with from the ages of 16/17.

I can't look at them and not get emotional thinking, "Oh yeah, that's Soldier's Angel in 2011, but they were together singing something in 1971 as well."

In a way, they were doing then what they're doing now and they've gone from a time when no one was listening to them to having the world applaud. They're the only two who have made that journey beginning to end. The only two who know what it feels like. They know what it sounds like.

Of course, there's a bond there. Their ongoing connection makes perfect sense to me. You don't have to save each other's lives. Love saves. Unconditional love saves. And to me, unconditional isn't always, "I would do anything for you." Sometimes, it's just, "unfortunately, there's nothing you could do that would make me not love you." Love is great in a romantic, tender joyous sense, but I like it in the more resigned "yeah, I can't shake that freak" sense as well.

Michele

:lol::lol::lol:

Most people aren't "big enough" people or even have enough care or love (in whatever form) to remain connected via a business partnership and friendship when there has been so much bad blood, regardless of an old bond. Usually bands just break up and artists go about doing their own thing. So, considering the precedence the SnL connection is really unique.

[michelej1]

:lol::lol::lol:

Most people aren't "big enough" people or even have enough care or love (in whatever form) to remain connected via a business partnership and friendship when there has been so much bad blood, regardless of an old bond. Usually bands just break up and artists go about doing their own thing. So, considering the precedence the SnL connection is really unique.

You're right, if the motives were only mercenary, it would not have survived.

Obviously, I'm biased, but I do think that FM loves each other. I do think the famous incarnation of the band has special feelings, chemistry, a unique bond, whatever . . . and it's not just because they made so many millions together. I think they made so many millions because of that bond, not the other way around.

I think that their love is why I'm drawn to them and not to, say, the Eagles.

Michele

[CADreaming]

You're right, if the motives were only mercenary, it would not have survived.

Obviously, I'm biased, but I do think that FM loves each other. I do think the famous incarnation of the band has special feelings, chemistry, a unique bond, whatever . . . and it's not just because they made so many millions together. I think they made so many millions because of that bond, not the other way around.

I think that their love is why I'm drawn to them and not to, say, the Eagles.

Michele

Exactly. Which is why I don't find it far-fetched at all to think if Stevie's family asked Lindsey to help assist with some sort of intervention, he would do what he could.

[MrStevie]

I would tend to think that some of her lyrics are inspired by other people and experiences besides Lindsey.

Short an indication to the contrary I tend to think so too. The rice a roni bell sounding before the lyrics start...clear indication she's singing this song to him.


It would be very pathetic to think that wasn't the case.

Why? She wouldn't be the first and only artist to have a singular muse.

[bombaysaffires]

[/QUOTE] i've always been a s/l shipper too, but more in an unhealthy way. meaning i think lindsey and stevie were very toxic to each other (that love/hate thing) and even though i love them together in a hypothetical sense, realistically i think it's a bad idea. so after reading this (it doesn't change how i feel about them not needing to be together) i have a little more compassion for their relationship and there were moments where they really good for each other. the problem is, they just couldn't stay that way for long.[/QUOTE]

Well said, Michelle.

[mystical1]

knowing that this song is about a drummer on Stevie's SA tour, I had heard that Dallas Taylor was the one that helped her but Im also getting that it could be Russ Kunkel as he was the official drummer on that album and tour....it would make sense if it was Dallas, him being a drug and alcohol specialist but idk...can anybody shed some light?

[fumidesigns]

knowing that this song is about a drummer on Stevie's SA tour, I had heard that Dallas Taylor was the one that helped her but Im also getting that it could be Russ Kunkel as he was the official drummer on that album and tour....it would make sense if it was Dallas, him being a drug and alcohol specialist but idk...can anybody shed some light?

ok what i am about to say you all have to TAKE TO THE GRAVE!!!!!
i called Stevie yesterday and she told me that this song is about Trevor! Trevor is the guy that bags at Frys and she had to go in there once, wee hours of the morning, cause she was fresh outta Remy Martin. When she saw there was no more liqour in the house she was like "oh hell nawl........i'll be right back!" Well he's hella cute and really really young! We all know Stevie is a COUGAR! GRRRRRRRRRRRR! She told me what really attracted her to him was the way he licked his fingers to open the plastic bags. She was like, "when i saw him lick his finger i was like 'WHAT MENOPAUSE!?' " She got his number and called him over one night, he hit her off and they had a very brief love affair! It was brief because the whole, "i can't because it's a school night" thing didnt fly well with her!

and now that you've read all this i want to say that WE WILL NEVER KNOW! SHE CHANGES HER STORY 85 TIMES A DAY!

[SaraThePoet]

ok what i am about to say you all have to TAKE TO THE GRAVE!!!!!
i called Stevie yesterday and she told me that this song is about Trevor! Trevor is the guy that bags at Frys and she had to go in there once, wee hours of the morning, cause she was fresh outta Remy Martin. When she saw there was no more liqour in the house she was like "oh hell nawl........i'll be right back!" Well he's hella cute and really really young! We all know Stevie is a COUGAR! GRRRRRRRRRRRR! She told me what really attracted her to him was the way he licked his fingers to open the plastic bags. She was like, "when i saw him lick his finger i was like 'WHAT MENOPAUSE!?' " She got his number and called him over one night, he hit her off and they had a very brief love affair! It was brief because the whole, "i can't because it's a school night" thing didnt fly well with her!

and now that you've read all this i want to say that WE WILL NEVER KNOW! SHE CHANGES HER STORY 85 TIMES A DAY!


Just fell off my effin chair laughing!!!!:thumbsup:

[WildHearted]

I think it's Dallas. Stevie specifically mentioned him in an interview a few years ago. And in the doc clips on YouTube she says "my friend the drummer" not ". My drummer." plus the fact that the song is called For What It's Worth.....

[LilyRose]

ok what i am about to say you all have to TAKE TO THE GRAVE!!!!!
i called Stevie yesterday and she told me that this song is about Trevor! Trevor is the guy that bags at Frys and she had to go in there once, wee hours of the morning, cause she was fresh outta Remy Martin. When she saw there was no more liqour in the house she was like "oh hell nawl........i'll be right back!" Well he's hella cute and really really young! We all know Stevie is a COUGAR! GRRRRRRRRRRRR! She told me what really attracted her to him was the way he licked his fingers to open the plastic bags. She was like, "when i saw him lick his finger i was like 'WHAT MENOPAUSE!?' " She got his number and called him over one night, he hit her off and they had a very brief love affair! It was brief because the whole, "i can't because it's a school night" thing didnt fly well with her!

and now that you've read all this i want to say that WE WILL NEVER KNOW! SHE CHANGES HER STORY 85 TIMES A DAY!

:laugh: :laugh: DEAD.

P.S. Call me, Trevor.

[mystical1]

ok what i am about to say you all have to TAKE TO THE GRAVE!!!!!
i called Stevie yesterday and she told me that this song is about Trevor! Trevor is the guy that bags at Frys and she had to go in there once, wee hours of the morning, cause she was fresh outta Remy Martin. When she saw there was no more liqour in the house she was like "oh hell nawl........i'll be right back!" Well he's hella cute and really really young! We all know Stevie is a COUGAR! GRRRRRRRRRRRR! She told me what really attracted her to him was the way he licked his fingers to open the plastic bags. She was like, "when i saw him lick his finger i was like 'WHAT MENOPAUSE!?' " She got his number and called him over one night, he hit her off and they had a very brief love affair! It was brief because the whole, "i can't because it's a school night" thing didnt fly well with her!

and now that you've read all this i want to say that WE WILL NEVER KNOW! SHE CHANGES HER STORY 85 TIMES A DAY!

O.M.G...you made me choke on my water and now i cant breathe....ROFL

[fumidesigns]

*takes a bow*

but seriously...........this woman NEVER tells the truth. i'm beinning to think that her gvt last name might not even be NICKS!!!!

[LilyRose]

*takes a bow*

but seriously...........this woman NEVER tells the truth. i'm beinning to think that her gvt last name might not even be NICKS!!!!

Ha! I think she thinks she's telling the truth 99% of the time, but years passed and party day haze takes a toll. Lol!

And it has to be about Dallas (even though I my Don theory is more romantic in my head). :D

[CADreaming]

She is definitely thanking Dallas Taylor. The great romance is someone else....

[LilyRose]

The great romance is someone else....

Why do you say that? Just curious.

[CADreaming]

Why do you say that? Just curious.

First, because the song encompasses her entire career/life. Second, because the romance is "still forbidden", "still outrageous" which indicates it is an ongoing relationship. Third, because I believe Dallas Taylor takes his responsibility as a drug counselor very seriously and would not jeopardize Stevie or anyone else's sobriety by conducting an unethical and careless affair with a woman who was in such a vulnerable state as Stevie was in at that time. He would have lost his position at the hospital and I guess I just find it hard to believe he would be unfaithful to his wife under his circumstances - he's been married to Betty since 1988, they are both rehab counselors/interventionists and have been through a lot together - Dallas has had two organ transplants due to the damage done to his body during his addictive lifestyle. Also, Dallas & Betty are thanked in Stevie's Street Angel liner notes. More than likely Dallas' wife was involved in her intervention as well. These are two professionals who have dedicated their lives to helping people get sober. And, I personally hope they have much continued success. God bless them.

[WildHearted]

First, because the song encompasses her entire career/life. Second, because the romance is "still forbidden", "still outrageous" which indicates it is an ongoing relationship. Third, because I believe Dallas Taylor takes his responsibility as a drug counselor very seriously and would not jeopardize Stevie or anyone else's sobriety by conducting an unethical and careless affair with a woman who was in such a vulnerable state as Stevie was in at that time. He would have lost his position at the hospital and I guess I just find it hard to believe he would screw around on his wife. And if so - how tacky of Stevie to thank BOTH of them in her Street Angel liner notes. More than likely she was involved in that intervention too. These are professionals who have dedicated their lives to helping people get sober.

Well, I don't disagree or agree with any of this necessarily - no opinion.

However, I don't think Dallas Taylor works with a hospital, I think he runs his own private business type thing, kind of free-lance or whatever. Maybe he did back then though, I'm not sure.

[CADreaming]

He worked at Daniel Freeman where Stevie went through rehab, as a consultant and director from 1990-2000. His wife was/is Director of Exodus Recovery there too.

[Morgana]

ok what i am about to say you all have to TAKE TO THE GRAVE!!!!!
i called Stevie yesterday and she told me that this song is about Trevor! Trevor is the guy that bags at Frys and she had to go in there once, wee hours of the morning, cause she was fresh outta Remy Martin. When she saw there was no more liqour in the house she was like "oh hell nawl........i'll be right back!" Well he's hella cute and really really young! We all know Stevie is a COUGAR! GRRRRRRRRRRRR! She told me what really attracted her to him was the way he licked his fingers to open the plastic bags. She was like, "when i saw him lick his finger i was like 'WHAT MENOPAUSE!?' " She got his number and called him over one night, he hit her off and they had a very brief love affair! It was brief because the whole, "i can't because it's a school night" thing didnt fly well with her!

and now that you've read all this i want to say that WE WILL NEVER KNOW! SHE CHANGES HER STORY 85 TIMES A DAY!

You are a trip! I about lost my drink laughing so hard, teach me to read your posts as I sip...nope, ain't doing that no more! :lol::lol: Good thing I don't inhale! :eek:

I agree......Momma can't get nothing straight it seems these days!

FWIW: Maybe Dallas was paid to go w/ Stevie? Who knows....only Mamma, Dallas, and the black widow spider!

[WildHearted]

He worked at Daniel Freeman where Stevie went through rehab, as a consultant and director from 1990-2000. His wife was/is Director of Exodus Recovery there too.

Did not know that. Thank you for the info!

[CADreaming]

^^Of course he/they were paid. Betty has been the sober companion for Drew Barrymore, Aerosmith and Britney Spears. It's their job.

[Fallfromgrace84]

It's a triangle.

[CADreaming]

LOL! :lol:

[bombaysaffires]

Short an indication to the contrary I tend to think so too. The rice a roni bell sounding before the lyrics start...clear indication she's singing this song to him.



Stevie didn't write the music to this song, Mike Campbell did, and the bell is part of the music track he wrote.

[bombaysaffires]

I always thought the forbidden romance was Tom Petty.

[LilyRose]

I can't...

[fumidesigns]

I can't...

Me neither! Laaaaawd I can't believe someone brought up the rice a roni bell lmaoooooooo! I luv u guys for keeping something going strong!!!!!

[Christopher]

Me neither! Laaaaawd I can't believe someone brought up the rice a roni bell lmaoooooooo! I luv u guys for keeping something going strong!!!!!
Holy Balls that cracks me up!!!!@#$% I'll never be able to listen to that darn bell the same way. EVER!:lol: btw, most of the Ledgies are prolly too young to remember those roni commercials :o

[LilyRose]

Me neither! Laaaaawd I can't believe someone brought up the rice a roni bell lmaoooooooo! I luv u guys for keeping something going strong!!!!!

Dude, I fell out.

[chiffon head]

I agree. The "great romance" is the life she's had at the top of the rock & roll world. That would include relationships, but it means so much more.

This was a song that, when I first heard it, I enjoyed the casualness of it. It seemed genuine, too. But it never made me think of Lindsey--it made me think of the recent life of a close friend of mine, so I sent the song to her because I knew she'd know exactly what I was thinking.

To me, it gets really boring & constraining to think of everything Stevie writes in terms of Lindsey's effect on her. If that were all true, that would be a really boring--and yet still psychotically obsessed--life. I think Stevie's life--even the parts she remembers--was a lot more exciting than that.

Look at Stevie in my sig. It's September 24, 1983, at Irvine Meadows Amphitheatre. See the smile on her face? That's her great romance. It's Joe & Mick & Don & Lindsey & Sharon & the Wild Heart tour & Europe & Australia & concerts & audiences & fans & songs on the radio & People magazine covers & rock bands & all of life wrapped up in a moment of adrenaline.

Agreed~and I interpret the chorus as meaning leaving a girlfriend to go out on the road/tour with Stevie~

[Johnny Stew]

First, because the song encompasses her entire career/life. Second, because the romance is "still forbidden", "still outrageous" which indicates it is an ongoing relationship.

I don't see an implication that the relationship is ongoing. It's "still forbidden," because society hasn't changed its view on extra-marital affairs. Even all these years later, the fact that she had a clandestine relationship with a married man at all, is still considered taboo.

Plus, the lines surrounding that statement are past tense ("only a few around us knew," "no one said a word," "it was contagious").

Sorry, folks, but I don't think this track has a single thing to do with Lindsey.

[LilyRose]

I don't see an implication that the relationship is ongoing. It's "still forbidden," because society hasn't changed its view on extra-marital affairs. Even all these years later, the fact that she had a clandestine relationship with a married man at all, is still considered taboo.

Plus, the lines surrounding that statement are past tense ("only a few around us knew," "no one said a word," "it was contagious").

Sorry, folks, but I don't think this track has a single thing to do with Lindsey.

I agree 100%

[michelej1]

I don't see an implication that the relationship is ongoing. It's "still forbidden," because society hasn't changed its view on extra-marital affairs. Even all these years later, the fact that she had a clandestine relationship with a married man at all, is still considered taboo.

Plus, the lines surrounding that statement are past tense ("only a few around us knew," "no one said a word," "it was contagious").

Sorry, folks, but I don't think this track has a single thing to do with Lindsey.

I agree. Lindsey was never "forbidden" until 1997. If they had actually wanted each other any time before then, they could have had each other. Even today, Tom Petty would not want to say he had an affair with her, because he's divorced, but he still has grown children from that marriage who wouldn't like to hear it. That's why they (or whatever other married man it might have been) don't acknowledge it even today.

The Traveling Wilburys look of the video convinced me even more that it was Petty.

Since she talks about Dallas spending 47 days in rehab with her while she was molting, then I think the "saved my life, I won't forget it" part is about him. Lindsey wasn't even talking to her willingly during that time in her life according to her and if he was supportive, there would be no reason for her to lie and to keep it secret.

I don't see anything in the song as being about Lindsey.

Michele

[CADreaming]

I agree. Lindsey was never "forbidden" until 1997. If they had actually wanted each other any time before then, they could have had each other. Even today, Tom Petty would not want to say he had an affair with her, because he's divorced, but he still has grown children from that marriage who wouldn't like to hear it. That's why they (or whatever other married man it might have been) don't acknowledge it even today.

Assuming that's what she means by forbidden. Why would it it be any less forbidden if it was just a girlfriend or a longtime partner? If everyone thinks Stevie has such a hippie ideology and wouldn't marry Lindsey because she couldn't "define love like it should be" then why is she putting it into the traditional box all of a sudden? She's getting old fashioned in her old age!


Since she talks about Dallas spending 47 days in rehab with her while she was molting, then I think the "saved my life, I won't forget it" part is about him.

Yeah, I'm sure he was there since it was his job.


Lindsey wasn't even talking to her willingly during that time in her life according to her and if he was supportive, there would be no reason for her to lie and to keep it secret.

I don't see anything in the song as being about Lindsey.

Michele

Well, according to her she had put Secret Love in a envelope or box and shipped it to her mother in 1975 or 6 whichever and never thought of it again until recently -- until Benmont reminded her it was recorded for Bella Donna. Oh, and there's that thing about her and Lindsey not getting intimate with one another until 1971 -- but really they were living together and had a house in 1969... In 1994 she said she was so wrapped up in her career she couldn't even have a dog.... which she's always had!! My point being - just because she said on record for the world that Lindsey wasn't talking to her doesn't necessarily mean that's true -- or it may have been true that day! LOL We don't have any real way of knowing. Besides, wasn't Tom doing his own tour? I sort of thought he had a huge enough of a complication going on with Dana and Jane.

Anyway, I think there is just as much of a possibility that it's about Lindsey as there is Tom (based on the story that came from Glen's girlfriend), but all that being said I was trying to get people to understand the truth in the earlier post about the Dallas Taylor connection and the reason for it. He's not the great romance. I believe that. It may be Tom. It may be Norm the roadie. It may be Lindsey (secretly). Who knows. Mystery. But, it was a great romance. And, it is poetic to think the great romance has been just her whole career -- her fans. That's romantic in a different kind of way. I like that too. :)

[michelej1]

Assuming that's what she means by forbidden. Why would it it be any less forbidden if it was just a girlfriend or a longtime partner? If everyone thinks Stevie has such a hippie ideology and wouldn't marry Lindsey because she couldn't "define love like it should be" then why is she putting it into the traditional box all of a sudden? She's getting old fashioned in her old age!

I don't think Stevie wouldn't marry Lindsey. And anyway I don't think she is the one being traditional. I think the male in the relationship was the traditional one and that he's the one who doesn't want the relationship disclosed. He's not like Mick.

Yeah, I'm sure he was there since it was his job.

I'm sure he was there because Stevie said he was there the whole 47 days. As far as his job goes, I don't know him and I don't know what his ethics are. I do know that people cross professional lines all of the time. Medical doctors, psychiatrists, teachers, parents. They have sex with those who are vulnerable quite often. I don't think he is the great romance in the song, but I don't have an opinion on the extent of his relationship with Stevie, one way or another.

Anyway, I think there is just as much of a possibility that it's about Lindsey as there is Tom

I don't think there's any possibility that it's about Lindsey, but the song certainly invites speculation in general, as does the unfinished sentence in particular.

Michele

[CADreaming]

I don't think Stevie wouldn't marry Lindsey. And anyway I don't think she is the one being traditional. I think the male in the relationship was the traditional one and that he's the one who doesn't want the relationship disclosed. He's not like Mick.



I'm sure he was there because Stevie said he was there the whole 47 days. As far as his job goes, I don't know him and I don't know what his ethics are. I do know that people cross professional lines all of the time. Medical doctors, psychiatrists, teachers, parents. They have sex with those who are vulnerable quite often. I don't think he is the great romance in the song, but I don't have an opinion on the extent of his relationship with Stevie, one way or another.



I don't think there's any possibility that it's about Lindsey, but the song certainly invites speculation in general, as does the unfinished sentence in particular.

Michele


Indeed....

[jannieC]

I'm sure he was there because Stevie said he was there the whole 47 days. As far as his job goes, I don't know him and I don't know what his ethics are. I do know that people cross professional lines all of the time. Medical doctors, psychiatrists, teachers, parents. They have sex with those who are vulnerable quite often. I don't think he is the great romance in the song, but I don't have an opinion on the extent of his relationship with Stevie, one way or another.





On the flip side, patients frequently have transference experiences with their caregivers, even when (or particularly when) the clinician sets and maintains clear and firm boundaries. Transference can be a very powerful and healing part of recovery.

[CADreaming]

On the flip side, patients frequently have transference experiences with their caregivers, even when (or particularly when) the clinician sets and maintains clear and firm boundaries. Transference can be a very powerful and healing part of recovery.

What is transference?

[michelej1]

On the flip side, patients frequently have transference experiences with their caregivers, even when (or particularly when) the clinician sets and maintains clear and firm boundaries. Transference can be a very powerful and healing part of recovery.

Oh, yes, I'm sure that happens quite commonly, more than ethical violations do.

When you think someone is rescuing you, saving your life, it would not be uncommon to transfer feelings you have for those in your life (those you wish could be that rescuer for you or have been in the past or failed to be in the past) to the therapist.

Michele