FWIW question...

[mikephxaz]

Well, when I started this thread with a simple question I didn't know that it would end up in a discussion about "transference of affections from a drug addict to her caregiver". Lol. I love it!!!

[CADreaming]

Well, when I started this thread with a simple question I didn't know that it would end up in a discussion about "transference of affections from a drug addict to her caregiver". Lol. I love it!!!

Which makes it even more tacky as hell for Stevie to thank Dallas' wife in the liner notes... just sayin'! :wavey:

[LilyRose]

Which makes it even more tacky as hell for Stevie to thank Dallas' wife in the liner notes... just sayin'! :wavey:

But if Stevie had an affair with Dallas, it might have started on the Street Angel tour. The album would have been recorded and done before their affair began. I mean, she did say in the Jim Ladd interview that this "forbidden", "outrageous" romance didn't start out as a romance at all. It could have started out as a friendship of sorts that blossomed into something more. Stranger things have happened...

[CADreaming]

But if Stevie had an affair with Dallas, it might have started on the Street Angel tour. The album would have been recorded and done before their affair began. I mean, she did say in the Jim Ladd interview that this "forbidden", "outrageous" romance didn't start out as a romance at all. It could have started out as a friendship of sorts that blossomed into something more. Stranger things have happened...

Tacky as hell that way too. But, I get everyone's belief about Stevie's love life and how she can't be just a normal person who maybe doesn't sleep with every man she meets. It's just amazing to me that everything gets spun that way. I think it's exaggerated and unrealistic.

[jannieC]

What is transference?

I'm not vouching for this site in its entirety (first time visiting it) but this is a decent explanation of therapeutic transference:

http://www.myshrink.com/counseling-theory.php?t_id=18

[Christopher]

Which makes it even more tacky as hell for Stevie to thank Dallas' wife in the liner notes... just sayin'! :wavey:

Well, that's just adding unreasonable judgement to this situation we have absolutely no certainty about. Only Stevie and the other 2 parties (guy & said girlfriend or spouse) and the "few around" who knew, will ever really know!?! Until the party's involved are too old to care and Stevie finally writes her memoir, however embellished or romaticsied it will be. We may never know for certain or ever. Though, I'm with Michele, and starting to think TP "saved her life" more than anyone :cool: And I'm virtually 99.9% sure this song has NADA to do with Lindsey :rolleyes:

[michelej1]

Tacky as hell that way too. But, I get everyone's belief about Stevie's love life and how she can't be just a normal person who maybe doesn't sleep with every man she meets. It's just amazing to me that everything gets spun that way. I think it's exaggerated and unrealistic.

Everyone's belief? I don't think wondering who the FWIW or Secret Love person is is indicting Stevie for sleeping with everyone man she meets. It's speculation about the mystery man, a question about who the romance is, not saying she had a romance with everyone. It's not a promiscuity trial.


Michele

[CADreaming]

Everyone's belief? I don't think wondering who the FWIW or Secret Love person is is indicting Stevie for sleeping with everyone man she meets. It's speculation about the mystery man, a question about who the romance is, not saying she had a romance with everyone. It's not a promiscuity trial.


Michele

My bad. Sorry for generalizing. I should have said "the majority of fans".


Well, that's just adding unreasonable judgement to this situation we have absolutely no certainty about. Only Stevie and the other 2 parties (guy & said girlfriend or spouse) and the "few around" who knew, will ever really know!?! Until the party's involved are too old to care and Stevie finally writes her memoir, however embellished or romaticsied it will be. We may never know for certain or ever. Though, I'm with Michele, and starting to think TP "saved her life" more than anyone :cool: And I'm virtually 99.9% sure this song has NADA to do with Lindsey :rolleyes:

I'm not sure how you can be 99.9% sure it has nothing to do with Lindsey if you are certain only the 2 parties (or a few around) will ever really know...

And goodness anyway -- who cares if I believe it could be about Lindsey? Everyone knows I have my reasons which are not totally unfounded, despite all the excellent deflection. Y'all can have Tom or Dallas. It's all good. Enjoy!

Since we don't know for sure, we can all be right until proven otherwise...

[michelej1]

And goodness anyway -- who cares if I believe it could be about Lindsey? Everyone knows I have my reasons which are not totally unfounded, despite all the excellent deflection. Y'all can have Tom or Dallas. It's all good. Enjoy!



Excellent deflection? You act like people have some sort of sinister, ulterior motive for wanting it to be Tom or Dallas. I love Lindsey and Stevie together. The sun rises on his receding hairline. I'd want it to be him if I thought there was any clue that there was. I don't. I think that most of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey. I just don't think there is any reason to believe this one is. That doesn't mean there's some anti-Lindsey deflection and Stevie is a slut Ledge group.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Excellent deflection? You act like people have some sort of sinister, ulterior motive for wanting it to be Tom or Dallas. I love Lindsey and Stevie together. The sun rises on his receding hairline. I'd want it to be him if I thought there was any clue that there was. I don't. I think that most of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey. I just don't think there is any reason to believe this one is. That doesn't mean there's some anti-Lindsey deflection and Stevie is a slut Ledge group.

Michele

Yeah, I wasn't talking about either one of those topics in my deflection reference.

[glamorousnymph]

May I suggest something "crazy": that the thanking of Dallas and his wife in liner notes would not necessarily mean Dallas wasn't the FWIW romance? Really, this was rock'n'roll. I can see Stevie thanking both, even if she slept with one. Or do we think that Stevie would leave out a woman who helped her because she slept with her husband?

As someone who has been some "secret love" situations, I can say you sometimes do "transfer" emotions or try to make up for past transgressions.

And I don't think "great romance" in the song means "great romance of my life," like Lindsey or Mick or Joe. It was just a great romance, like a great sushi dinner. Not biggest event of one's life. I mean, watch the cars drive by? Great night, not epic night.

"Still forbidden" means she is still doing all that **** she always did, walking the line, going after the guy she couldn't have to prove she still had it. Only a few around us knew ... Who would give a rat's ass if that was Lindsey? Fleetwood Mac would care about Cheri or Kristen? I dunno, maybe. I think it's more forbidden if it's your drug counselor. That is really off limits. You shouldn't start a relationship in recovery at all. Talk about outrageous.

[michelej1]

May I suggest something "crazy": that the thanking of Dallas and his wife in liner notes would not necessarily mean Dallas wasn't the FWIW romance? Really, this was rock'n'roll. I can see Stevie thanking both, even if she slept with one. Or do we think that Stevie would leave out a woman who helped her because she slept with her husband?



I keep thinking of the picture of Stevie playing with Mick's little girl or talking to her on the video and saying that she would be the next drummer or something, all while she was sleeping with the kid's dad and contributing to the family break up (although Jenny wasn't faithful either and Mick's marriage seems to have already been broken for reasons having nothing to do with Stevie). But you never know what people do or why they do it.

I never really thought that Dallas was the great romance, though. I do agree with the notion that the song probably encompasses a number of different points in her life, through a number of years and rehab may be a bus stop in the song, but it doesn't span the entire trip. So, I think a number of people probably figure in, both friends and lover and Mike Campbell too.

Michele

[CADreaming]

I never really thought that Dallas was the great romance, though. I do agree with the notion that the song probably encompasses a number of different points in her life, through a number of years and rehab may be a bus stop in the song, but it doesn't span the entire trip. So, I think a number of people probably figure in, both friends and lover and Mike Campbell too.

Michele

That's how I've always felt about the song -- autobiographical and full circle in a way. To me, that's why it ends the same as it begins with "I got to sing, I got to dance".

[bombaysaffires]

May I suggest something "crazy": that the thanking of Dallas and his wife in liner notes would not necessarily mean Dallas wasn't the FWIW romance? Really, this was rock'n'roll. I can see Stevie thanking both, even if she slept with one. Or do we think that Stevie would leave out a woman who helped her because she slept with her husband?

As someone who has been some "secret love" situations, I can say you sometimes do "transfer" emotions or try to make up for past transgressions.

And I don't think "great romance" in the song means "great romance of my life," like Lindsey or Mick or Joe. It was just a great romance, like a great sushi dinner. Not biggest event of one's life. I mean, watch the cars drive by? Great night, not epic night.

"Still forbidden" means she is still doing all that **** she always did, walking the line, going after the guy she couldn't have to prove she still had it. Only a few around us knew ... Who would give a rat's ass if that was Lindsey? Fleetwood Mac would care about Cheri or Kristen? I dunno, maybe. I think it's more forbidden if it's your drug counselor. That is really off limits. You shouldn't start a relationship in recovery at all. Talk about outrageous.

Agree with this. The only part I might quibble with is that I don't necessarily think the "still forbidden" part means she's still doing it, just that it still can't be talked about; the passage of time hasn't made it alright to talk about now anymore than at the time it happened. And I'm not sure that she always goes/went after a guy she couldn't have to prove she still had it... I think more that it's just what you said "rock' n' roll" where you believe that the normal rules of life don't apply to you... and in FM it certainly seems like no one around the band ever questioned their entitlement to act however they wanted....

As a former counselor, I'm enjoying the therapy discussion. :wavey:

[glamorousnymph]

I keep thinking of the picture of Stevie playing with Mick's little girl or talking to her on the video and saying that she would be the next drummer or something, all while she was sleeping with the kid's dad and contributing to the family break up (although Jenny wasn't faithful either and Mick's marriage seems to have already been broken for reasons having nothing to do with Stevie). But you never know what people do or why they do it.

I never really thought that Dallas was the great romance, though. I do agree with the notion that the song probably encompasses a number of different points in her life, through a number of years and rehab may be a bus stop in the song, but it doesn't span the entire trip. So, I think a number of people probably figure in, both friends and lover and Mike Campbell too.

Michele
YES. She felt close to Mick and entitled to befriend his children and wife, etc. She says something about Mick's daughter being a percussionist. It's part cover up and part feeling close to the person. You feel guilty and also want to get as close as you can to the fantasy of wife and mother.

I wish it were Tom, because I love Stevie and Tom. I like to think Sister Honey was written for him. I just really think it's less glamorous, honestly,
and about a specific person and not a bunch. Doesn't have that all-encompassing Sara or Shangri-La feel to it. Plus she was my age, old, overweight. I do not think she felt she was crazy sexy then, as she was molting with "surprise" gray hair and peeling skin.

Feels like a little ditty to someone she needs to say it to. You saved my life, Tom Petty? Eh. She can say that in person. Also, Tom "inspired" That Made Me Stronger. AND FWIW? Doesn't compute. That Made Me Stronger is the opposite of sex.

Sorry if I am making no sense.

I could be wrong, of course, but this has the feel of a one-off romance.

[bombaysaffires]

I'm wondering if picking this song as a single is somehow a way to thank Mike Campbell or that she feels she owes him something... I mean she's got him playing on it at every tv appearance and makes it a point to highlight him, when frankly, Waddy or any other guitar player could certainly play his part... It's almost like she's doing him a favor or out of some sort of gratitude for something.....

Or not.....

[glamorousnymph]

Agree with this. The only part I might quibble with is that I don't necessarily think the "still forbidden" part means she's still doing it, just that it still can't be talked about; the passage of time hasn't made it alright to talk about now anymore than at the time it happened. And I'm not sure that she always goes/went after a guy she couldn't have to prove she still had it... I think more that it's just what you said "rock' n' roll" where you believe that the normal rules of life don't apply to you... and in FM it certainly seems like no one around the band ever questioned their entitlement to act however they wanted....

As a former counselor, I'm enjoying the therapy discussion. :wavey:

Well maybe, yes, still forbidden could be that, although I think she always felt she had rights to Lindsey. Maybe Mick?!

Agree - she didn't have to prove anything when she was younger, post-Klonopin probably, though. These days, hope not.
Stevie definitely learned from sleeping with Lindsey, and that likely extended to her later collaborators.

[michelej1]

I wish it were Tom, because I love Stevie and Tom. I like to think Sister Honey was written for him. I just really think it's less glamorous, honestly, and about a specific person and not a bunch. Doesn't have that all-encompassing Sara or Shangri-La feel to it. Plus she was my age, old, overweight.

Feels like a little ditty to someone she needs to say it to. You saved my life, Tom Petty? Eh. She can say that in person. Also, Tom "inspired" That Made Me Stronger. AND FWIW? Doesn't compute.

I could be wrong, of course, but this has the feel of a one-off romance.

I like some of Tom's music and I especially love that he was so complimentary about Lindsey in that Paul Zollo interview, but I don't particularly like the idea of him and Stevie together. In 1987 I even resented her being with Dylan and Petty because, to me, it's just part of the whole Tango collapse and one of the many things that led to everything going wrong.

But it just seems that Stevie has always had such a mad crush on him. I think he thinks of her mostly as a sister and that she's not really his type. So, I agree with you that theirs wasn't an ongoing romance. But Stevie seems to have him on a pedestal.

Michele

[glamorousnymph]

I like some of Tom's music and I especially love that he was so complimentary about Lindsey in that Paul Zollo interview, but I don't particularly like the idea of him and Stevie together. In 1987 I even resented her being with Dylan and Petty because, to me, it's just part of the whole Tango collapse and one of the many things that led to everything going wrong.

But it just seems that Stevie has always had such a mad crush on him. I think he thinks of her mostly as a sister and that she's not really his type. So, I agree with you that theirs wasn't an ongoing romance. But Stevie seems to have him on a pedestal.

Michele

Soul mate, we agree, except I am in love with Tom and always have been.

I don't know much about the Tango collapse and despite being a Dylan fan, I ignored the Wilburys. I have things to learn from this board. I do remember that egregious '80s sweater she wore on stage with them when she was called up unexpectedly,

I think Stevie loves any musical genius andseeks validation through him.

[WildHearted]

Soul mate, we agree, except I am in love with Tom and always have been.

I don't know much about the Tango collapse and despite being a Dylan fan, I ignored the Wilburys. I have things to learn from this board. I do remember that egregious '80s sweater she wore on stage with them when she was called up unexpectedly,

I think Stevie loves any musical genius andseeks validation through him.

True. She really admits this, too, that she just wanted all the big boys to acknowledge her and say she was good.

[glamorousnymph]

True. She really admits this, too, that she just wanted all the big boys to acknowledge her and say she was good.

Yep. Totally get that, being in a boys' business!

[jellyman10]

I think Stevie loves any musical genius andseeks validation through him.

Thank you! :thumbsup: It's good to be reminded once in a while that Stevie has always been turned on by musical/performing talent, as much as by a dude with a cute ass or long curly hair.

Validation? You're probably right about that, too. I wish it wasn't the case, but I think it is, and that the reason it is, is that the business has always tried to make women feel like they need it from the 'real' artists. But really: don't get me started. :lol:

On FWIW: I agree with those who think 'the great romance' is her life as a rock star. I also agree with those who don't see LB in this song, at all. Stevie is on record with a strong hint that Dallas Taylor is related to this song somehow, and I tend to think that something occurred between them that was very off-limits, and that that was probably because of the therapeutic relationship rather than simply infidelity.

As for thanking Dallas's wife - well, maybe I just know a lot of people with very odd relationships (including me), but I can easily imagine a perfectly dignified scenario for that. The mid-90s is a long time ago now and isn't it possible that a long-term relationship can have ups and downs, and that those ups and downs can include liaisons (not even necessarily sexual) that almost lead to something that breaks it up but then doesn't, and people talk about them later and are forgiven? A lot of people might want to thank someone even more, in fact, if they have been forgiven by them. Life is complicated; probably more so when recovering from addiction.

Loz

[mitzo]

Sadly, Stevie's desire for validation from Tom and the boys did nothing for her music.

[CADreaming]

Let me try to rephrase my Lindsey leaning on FWIW. Whether or not he had anything to do with her rehab, I'm reminded of him because of the autobiographical nature of the song. When she sings: "I got to sing, I got to dance. I got to be a part of a great romance." to me, she is summing up her entire career, which definitely begins (and maybe ends) with Lindsey. He's her "partner in crime" -- the one who's name she drops as if everyone on the earth knows they are forever linked, as if you say 'Stevie and Lindsey' like you say 'peanut butter and jelly' or 'cream and sugar'. She continually points out they considered themselves married and that he's as close to that as she'll ever get and how musically they "have to be in a band together for 100 years". She's even likened them to Johnny & June Cash. So, in that respect it's that unending connection that makes it her "great romance". She's said now that she's older she looks back on some other relationships and they were a mere blip on the radar comparatively. So when she sings that line in the song that's what I think of, in addition to the person she is referring to when she says "you saved my life, I won't forget it".

"I think Stevie and Lindsey were a very compatible couple...it must have been a great romance!" -- Javier Pacheco.

[Christopher]

FWIW lyrics are not linear or literal. As per usual with Stevie you need to read between her lines, she weaves assorted themes and subjects in many of her songs and FWIW is no different imo. I too, interpret "I got to sing, I got to dance, I got to be part of a great romance" - as Stevie reflecting as a whole on her career & her relationship in a great legendary rock n roll band, not a singular person. Not that line. Sure the essence of the song is thanking someone who "saved" her life, subsequently Stevie salvaged her career & eventually came back stronger, after yet another difficult low point (Klonopin), this time almost more deadly than before.

[HejiraNYC]

FWIW lyrics are not linear or literal. As per usual with Stevie you need to read between her lines, she weaves assorted themes and subjects in many of her songs and FWIW is no different imo. I too, interpret "I got to sing, I got to dance, I got to be part of a great romance" - as Stevie reflecting as a whole on her career & her relationship in a great legendary rock n roll band, not a singular person. Not that line. Sure the essence of the song is thanking someone who "saved" her life, subsequently Stevie salvaged her career & eventually came back stronger, after yet another difficult low point (Klonopin), this time almost more deadly than before.

I tend to agree that Stevie has a theme in mind and writes little vignettes around the theme to tell her story, which is never linear or literal. The theme of this story is how her life has been saved by the angels in her life during the great nadirs- presumably her addiction/recovery to Klonopin and then the Street Angel fiasco/tour- an era that is so unspeakably traumatic that she never even mentions it any more except in song.

Now, putting my shipper hat on for a moment, I am going to hone in one obvious facet of this song that nobody seems to pick up on: the phrase "for what it's worth." Sometimes that is a phrase that is tacked onto a string of facts or things to consider, which leaves the listener to draw up a conclusion about this information. My theory about "for what it's worth" is that this person saved her life by making up all of these promises/enticements for Stevie to come to her own conclusion to go for treatment. I think the first verse and chorus is about Lindsey. Based on what we know about Lindsey and his concerns about Stevie around this time, is it possible that he tossed out these gestures (leaving his girlfriend, packing up his stuff, moving in, etc.) as an enticement for Stevie to get help? She was probably in a very vulnerable emotional state at the time and needed to hear those words by someone who cared so deeply about her that she really had no choice but to go. She must have gone to rehab with dreams of blue-gray eyes, white picket fences and rose gardens. As many people suspect/believe/wish, the "great romance" came to pass during The Dance, and it was definitely forbidden.

The second verse is about the post-recovery phase in which she was "broken" and "scared" and basically thrown to the wolves. This is probably about Dallas Taylor and the way he also saved her livelihood, if not her life, by holding her hand and giving her hope and reassurance. I don't think there is any reason to believe that they were sharing a bunk in the back of the tour bus.

As usual, in her typical lying by omission, Stevie has conveniently neglected to tell the full story about this song in interviews.

[bombaysaffires]

Interesting discussion, and this is what makes Stevie's songs so compelling... everyone can find what they want in them!

That said, personally, I feel this song is pretty literal. I don't think the relationship she's talking about is hypothetical or a vague amalgamation of various relationships... I think it's about one in particular. The lyrics are pretty straightforward, there's not a lot of mysticism and symbology of winds and rains and birds and the like. It's pretty uncluttered language. The lines "a great romance, still forbidden, still outrageous, only a few around us knew but no one said a word it was contagious" I just don't get the vibe that this is about LB. That said, given the sheer number of relationships, hookups, one-offs, full on love affairs-- that she's had in her life, the circumstances of a secret relationship could refer to any number of people, so exactly WHO it's about is not certain. However, she's given a pretty straightforward commentary that the song relates to a particular person (Dallas Taylor) at a particular time in her life when she needed someone to lean on and he was that someone. Does that relationship parallel others she's had in the past? Sure, so in that sense the circumstances she describes in FWIW probably fit previous "Secret Loves" she's had over the years. But I think the core of it is pretty literal to that one relationship. YMMV

[jellyman10]

She must have gone to rehab with dreams of blue-gray eyes, white picket fences and rose gardens. As many people suspect/believe/wish, the "great romance" came to pass during The Dance, and it was definitely forbidden.



Enjoyed your post. Not clear on why a romantic relationship with LB would be forbidden in 1997?

[michelej1]

I am going to hone in one obvious facet of this song that nobody seems to pick up on: the phrase "for what it's worth." Sometimes that is a phrase that is tacked onto a string of facts or things to consider, which leaves the listener to draw up a conclusion about this information.

This phrase has always stuck out to me, because of the way it's appendaged to an unfinished sentence. To me, it's most often used in an anti-climatic fashion. Kind of apologetic. "Well, that turned out to be a complete fiasco and nothing worked like we planned, but for what it's worth, I'm glad you drove 200 miles to my picnic, even though it rained."

Michele

[Christopher]

I tend to agree that Stevie has a theme in mind and writes little vignettes around the theme to tell her story, which is never linear or literal. The theme of this story is how her life has been saved by the angels in her life during the great nadirs- presumably her addiction/recovery to Klonopin and then the Street Angel fiasco/tour- an era that is so unspeakably traumatic that she never even mentions it any more except in song.

Now, putting my shipper hat on for a moment, I am going to hone in one obvious facet of this song that nobody seems to pick up on: the phrase "for what it's worth." Sometimes that is a phrase that is tacked onto a string of facts or things to consider, which leaves the listener to draw up a conclusion about this information. My theory about "for what it's worth" is that this person saved her life by making up all of these promises/enticements for Stevie to come to her own conclusion to go for treatment. I think the first verse and chorus is about Lindsey. Based on what we know about Lindsey and his concerns about Stevie around this time, is it possible that he tossed out these gestures (leaving his girlfriend, packing up his stuff, moving in, etc.) as an enticement for Stevie to get help? She was probably in a very vulnerable emotional state at the time and needed to hear those words by someone who cared so deeply about her that she really had no choice but to go. She must have gone to rehab with dreams of blue-gray eyes, white picket fences and rose gardens. As many people suspect/believe/wish, the "great romance" came to pass during The Dance, and it was definitely forbidden.

The second verse is about the post-recovery phase in which she was "broken" and "scared" and basically thrown to the wolves. This is probably about Dallas Taylor and the way he also saved her livelihood, if not her life, by holding her hand and giving her hope and reassurance. I don't think there is any reason to believe that they were sharing a bunk in the back of the tour bus.

As usual, in her typical lying by omission, Stevie has conveniently neglected to tell the full story about this song in interviews.

Hmmm... Interesting. If you really examine the summation of Stevie's life at this time, just the bits and pieces that we know of, for example FM surely was contacted at least a month before their one off reunion during Clinton's inauguration January 20th, 1993, which squarely one can assume Stevie & Lindsey were in communication late 1992 (the infamous phone call of Stevie cajoling Lindsey that they had to do this gig). So even though she clearly was knee-deep in her own health crisis, which was obvious to anyone watching their performance of "Don't Stop", with her jaw dropping appearance, all pasty & bloated, barely recognizable sans her trademark finery & tamborine - She felt some urgency to do this! Maybe it was more about reconnecting with Lindsey, than the President of the United States call of duty? Also note, during this timeframe, Stevie was practically finished with the Glyn Johns production of Street Angel. She wrote and recorded the bulk of this record in 1992, including Blue Denim, and Glyn & Stevie turned in the final mixed masters in early 1993. So it is totally plausible that Lindsey, after some talks & seeing for himself Stevie's imminent destruction at hand, intervened in some small or big way:shrug:. Because soon after, the record company delayed SA, and Stevie entered rehab in 93', then came out...and we know the rest. Or do we?;)

[HejiraNYC]

Enjoyed your post. Not clear on why a romantic relationship with LB would be forbidden in 1997?

Maybe it wasn't "forbidden" at the time as much as it was supposed to be a deeply held secret. It only became "forbidden" when Lindsey's relationship with Kristen came to light.

[CADreaming]

Hmmm... Interesting. If you really examine the summation of Stevie's life at this time, just the bits and pieces that we know of, for example FM surely was contacted at least a month before their one off reunion during Clinton's inauguration January 20th, 1993, which squarely one can assume Stevie & Lindsey were in communication late 1992 (the infamous phone call of Stevie cajoling Lindsey that they had to do this gig). So even though she clearly was knee-deep in her own health crisis, which was obvious to anyone watching their performance of "Don't Stop", with her jaw dropping appearance, all pasty & bloated, barely recognizable sans her trademark finery & tamborine - She felt some urgency to do this! Maybe it was more about reconnecting with Lindsey, than the President of the United States call of duty? Also note, during this timeframe, Stevie was practically finished with the Glyn Johns production of Street Angel. She wrote and recorded the bulk of this record in 1992, including Blue Denim, and Glyn & Stevie turned in the final mixed masters in early 1993. So it is totally plausible that Lindsey, after some talks & seeing for himself Stevie's imminent destruction at hand, intervened in some small or big way:shrug:. Because soon after, the record company delayed SA, and Stevie entered rehab in 93', then came out...and we know the rest. Or do we?;)

That's what I think could very well have happened...:nod:

[Johnny Stew]

In some 'Street Angel'-era interview, Stevie said that there was no prospect of a full Fleetwood Mac reunion, because "Lindsey doesn't want to be around me."

Nothing wrong with speculation, of course, but I really don't think those two had anything to do with each other until 1996, outside of the inaugural gala performance, and I don't believe Lindsey had any pull regarding Stevie's rehab stint.

[CADreaming]

^Johnny Stew I totally understand where you are coming from. It makes sense from one point of view.

But, I think there is a possibility Lindsey may have been compelled to get involved in an intervention for a number of reasons, including the story Debbie (catdancer) told a few years ago when she talked to Lindsey (at a radio station, I believe) in 1992. He was very worried about Stevie and her Klonopin use that he had recently witnessed at a show they did in SF and how Stevie didn't know his family. In particular, his sister-in-law at the time Eileen, who was married to Jeff, had been very close friends with Stevie but she didn't even know her and didn't even know Lindsey was there either... Debbie said Lindsey was really sad and concerned and asked her to tell Stevie to call him.

And, for all I know they're on the phone right now. We can't possibly know what all goes on and went on behind the scenes that would change our minds in regards to their communication or personal involvement. For instance, Stevie can say, "we're not talking" with a straight face because they are not talking -- at that moment. Or they are in a disagreement -- that will be over tomorrow. Or Lindsey didn't want to be around her because she was so looped out on Klonopin he couldn't bare it and she wrote, "so I'm going away for a little while to remember how to feel..."

[David]

Interesting discussion, and this is what makes Stevie's songs so compelling... everyone can find what they want in them!Stevie is the William Blake of pop songwriters! You can hang whatever coat you're wearing on her rack.

[bombaysaffires]

Stevie is the William Blake of pop songwriters! You can hang whatever coat you're wearing on her rack.

oh my......

[jannieC]

I don't usually comment or speculate on Stevie's lyrics because I'm just not very creative. More often than not, I am trying to fit them into MY world and make them meaningful for me. :laugh:

I have always been under the impression that Stevie gets an idea (something someone says, a road sign, etc.) and then lets her imagination go. I have never believed (though I have <i>tried</i>) that any of her songs are literally about one person or a single idea. Why should this one be any different?

[glamorousnymph]

I don't usually comment or speculate on Stevie's lyrics because I'm just not very creative. More often than not, I am trying to fit them into MY world and make them meaningful for me. :laugh:

I have always been under the impression that Stevie gets an idea (something someone says, a road sign, etc.) and then lets her imagination go. I have never believed (though I have <i>tried</i>) that any of her songs are literally about one person or a single idea. Why should this one be any different?

Well the story hasn't veered yet from basically this, which implies it's about one person.

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH – Somewhere in the '90s – in my post Klonopin era (a drug that almost destroyed me)– I'd just come out of 47 days in rehab. I was trying to recover. I was petrified of life with no tranquilizers. I was afraid to come back into the real world. Someone appeared out of nowhere. An angel stepped in. He arrived and walked me through and he saved my spiritual life. I think it's a reminder for everyone that sometimes when you are filled with fear or pain, someone arrives and takes you by the hand and helps you on your journey.

[jellyman10]

I have always been under the impression that Stevie gets an idea (something someone says, a road sign, etc.) and then lets her imagination go. I have never believed (though I have <i>tried</i>) that any of her songs are literally about one person or a single idea. Why should this one be any different?

I agree that most of her ouevre (if I can use that word) comprises songs that spring from that kind of hybrid, launching-point-meets-imagination model. I can't agree, however, with the bit I bolded. That just goes a little too far, for me, because I do think that there are a minority of songs that are about one person or a single idea. Examples of these would be 'Crystal', 'Dreams', 'That's Alright', 'Leather and Lace', 'I Sing For The Things', and several others (whilst still being a minority).

[MrStevie]

I don't usually comment or speculate on Stevie's lyrics because I'm just not very creative. More often than not, I am trying to fit them into MY world and make them meaningful for me. :laugh:

I have always been under the impression that Stevie gets an idea (something someone says, a road sign, etc.) and then lets her imagination go. I have never believed (though I have <i>tried</i>) that any of her songs are literally about one person or a single idea. Why should this one be any different?

I go the opposite way. There's very little imagination to Stevie's songs except in the minds of the listener. I don't think she's particularly clever or deep in her songwriting methodology. Her songs are not born out of imagination but personal experience. Even if she never said so in an interview I can tell by her choice of words and unorthodox lyric structure that she lifted many songs directly out of her journal, if not from books she's read. A song doesn't necessarily come from one complete passage or experience, but I do hear a connection to a singular muse. More people might hear it the same way if not for the genius and imagination present in her interviews. A song is formed from her taking different journal passages and different experiences at different times in her life. Her songwriting process is linking each part together like a chain to make a song. Never break the chain. :laugh:

My opinion won't be popular with those who think it's pathetic if Stevie's songs really are all about one person (herself) born from the unimaginative ramblings of a school girl's diary. I still see huge value in her work, on an emotional level, in the way so many people connect to her songs. The reason so many people relate to her direct personal experiences is that Stevie channels honest, real and true emotions we've all had in common. The genius and imagination comes into play in her interviews. The creativity there is spectacular! The way she talks about her life and all the people in it...allows her to shape audience opinion about her work in a way that makes each song an adventure for your imagination...not hers.

[WildHearted]

^ I think it a combination of the two. Mostly what you have said, about it all being from personal experience. However, I do think she let's her imagination run wild WITH those experiences and/or feelings, and that's how we get the songs like Rhiannon, to cite a common example. Similarly, I think she does see things that inspire her - a pretty phrase or something of the sort, but she relates them all back to herself, or simply incorporates into a song becAuse she likes the way it sounds ( such as In The Still of the Night / How Still My Love and Silver SPrings). I think she is creative ( or maybe just out there) at times with the way she spins her experiences into songs, but I dOnt necessarily think the inspirations are born from some grand creative spark.... Because like has been mentioned, they are all about her.


This is a really good, interesting little read on the same subject which I agree with for the most part. I think Stevie has imagination in the way that she tells things, for sure.
http://palepinksatin.tumblr.com/post/8304561981/im-going-to-do-a-series-of-analytic-posts-on-stevie

[jellyman10]

I don't think she's particularly clever or deep in her songwriting methodology. Her songs are not born out of imagination but personal experience. Even if she never said so in an interview I can tell by her choice of words and unorthodox lyric structure that she lifted many songs directly out of her journal, if not from books she's read. A song doesn't necessarily come from one complete passage or experience, but I do hear a connection to a singular muse. More people might hear it the same way if not for the genius and imagination present in her interviews.

I kind of agree? But not really. You're right that she's not all that 'deep' or 'clever', but you're dead wrong on the born-out-of-imagination aspect. For me, that's exactly where SN diverges from a few other greats, such as Carly Simon or Joni Mitchell. In fact, it's always bothered me that Stevie has often said that she decided early on in her songwriting career that she would 'never hedge', and she seemed to me to do that rather a lot.

So, anyway, here's the thing: you're just about 180 degrees wrong, imo. Stevie writes exactly about things 'born out of imagination'. And also, by the way, you're mental, if you think you're getting 'personal experience' in her lyrics.

:wavey:

[mikephxaz]

I kind of agree? But not really. You're right that she's not all that 'deep' or 'clever', but you're dead wrong on the born-out-of-imagination aspect. For me, that's exactly where SN diverges from a few other greats, such as Carly Simon or Joni Mitchell. In fact, it's always bothered me that Stevie has often said that she decided early on in her songwriting career that she would 'never hedge', and she seemed to me to do that rather a lot.

So, anyway, here's the thing: you're just about 180 degrees wrong, imo. Stevie writes exactly about things 'born out of imagination'. And also, by the way, you're mental, if you think you're getting 'personal experience' in her lyrics.

:wavey:

Jelly, I completely agree...my hunch is that Stevie's imagination is far more reaching than her reality...We know of the the many loves in her life...Lindsey, Joe, Don, and others but I think over the last two decades that she has relied less on quoting directly from her journals and much more from her ever expanding "dream" world...She doesn't "keep her visions to you herself" anymore...She creates her reality with her words and she has a crazy fantasy life that ends up on paper....

[ryan4136]

Much more an LB fan than a SN fan. Didn't go out and get the new album, but was introduced to FWIW the other day.


Good tune....hats off to SN, Stewart, and Campell....

[bluefox4000]

Yea i'm nowhere near a big Stevie fan. But IYD was awesome. I enjoyed it far more then SWS. This is Coming from a Lindsey diehard:eek: Lol.

Oh FWIW is a great tune.

Mick

[PolishStevieFan]

Good for you! But let me tell YOU-the whole "In Your Dreams" album is worth exploring!

[ryan4136]

I'm considering it now.

[mikephxaz]

i think when it's all said and done..IYD is a fantastic collection of songs and I would be curious to know how Stevie feels about the modest sales but wide exposure she had on television over 2011

[cliffdweller]

Yea i'm nowhere near a big Stevie fan. But IYD was awesome. I enjoyed it far more then SWS.

Sorry this is off topic: I too am very disappointed in SWS. I wanted to like it, but it just does nothing for me. I think his previous two solo albums were FAR better.

Okay, commence Stevie topic...