SYW, best album of all time?

[Deeshere]

thanks for going for it! :thumbsup:

i actually agree with most of your interpretation, i too thought it's pretty straightforward and clear.

raven i think comes from SN's use of EAP so much, to me that was another no-brainer.

one thing i would interpret differently is that this song (as well as Mick's Playboy interview) is probably more of a reaction on Heart and Soul cash grab than on IYD promotional tour. and counting the actual tour dates and their distribution, SN works much harder when she tours with FM than solo.

i still think this song is pretty in-your-face nasty and the goal was to get her to do something he wanted, and he stopped playing it once she said yes. (yes it dragged, but he knew that before he put it in the setlist.) Sad Angel is a loving follow-up, with somewhat similar topic and message, but without all the nastiness.

Thank you Elle, you are the only one that actually had something positive to say about my post. You are right about the Poe/Raven reference.

I actually wrote my interpretation during my lunch break, so I did not put as much thought into it as I maybe should have. Rhiannon and birds are a knee jerk reaction for me, because the bird theme is so well known. I should have thought about the "The Raven" because I read it in high school an actually like a lot of Poe's work.

[Deeshere]

i love your interpretation of actual dancing line :nod:, i just skipped over it when thinking about those lyrics.

Thank you again Elle. :xoxo: You know I only did the interpretation cause you asked someone to do it. So I thought I would give it a shot.

Because Lindsey and Stevie's lyrics can be looked at in many different ways, so I knew not everyone would agree, and expected some different views.
I actually like to discuss the lyrics, because it helps you see another aspect of the song you may never have come up with on your own.

[CADreaming]

"The girls don't like that line. That's not a big line with the women here in America, but its ok because that's how he feels. To whom he is speaking to, it is true. I think that in this song that Lindsey is being very honest that he's angry and he's talking about some real kind of air relationships. I like to hear him talk about things because he's not a talker and he doesn't like to expound. He just figures either you understand or you're stupid."

What's an air relationship?

:laugh::laugh:

You know - the standard "air relationship", not real, no meaning. But, the real kind. :D

[michelej1]

If Poe were able to read the lyrics
of the songs from the album SYW
it's doubtful he would have liked
them.

I can't agree with this. But I can ASSURE you that Nathaniel Hawthorne would not have been happy.

Michele

[michelej1]

Elle,

I don't think of you as a big lyrics person. I just thought I'd claim Seeds We Sow, since you were talking about Poe meaning Stevie and it's a rather incongruent bit of wording, too. It took effort to squeeze that in.

Michele

[Lindsfan]

:laugh::laugh:

You know - the standard "air relationship", not real, no meaning. But, the real kind. :D

Awesome :thumbsup: Thanks, CAD, for clearing that up! :laugh:

[elle]

contrary to popular belief (or so it seems), i actually don't analyze these songs that deeply, you know i mainly listen to music. interpretations i usually give are mostly from initial impressions that i got when i heard certain song, and don't involve much deep thinking.

Elle,

I don't think of you as a big lyrics person. I just thought I'd claim Seeds We Sow, since you were talking about Poe meaning Stevie and it's a rather incongruent bit of wording, too. It took effort to squeeze that in.

Michele

ok, good; i didn't actually think you would. just wanted to make that clear for anybody else out there wondering.

[iamnotafraid]

I can't agree with this. But I can ASSURE you that Nathaniel Hawthorne would not have been happy.

Michele


I'm not so sure about that. His fascination
with Stevie and The Scarlet Letter might cloud
his judgement. Salem, Scarlet and Stevie - they
just go together.

[michelej1]

I'm not so sure about that. His fascination
with Stevie and The Scarlet Letter might cloud
his judgement. Salem, Scarlet and Stevie - they
just go together.

Too many flowers to cut down. For the love that I have for your life.

That would drive any great writer to drink.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Too many flowers to cut down. For the love that I have for your life.

That would drive any great writer to drink.

Michele

Until she, herself.

[Lindsfan]

Too many flowers to cut down. For the love that I have for your life.

Michele

Until she, herself.

So we're back to discussing SYW?

[michelej1]

So we're back to discussing SYW?

Well, it's still Edgar Allan Poe a little. I was just saying that Nathaniel Hawthorne couldn't be unhappier with what Stevie did to his work than EAP is.

But, um, in all serious, if we are still discussing Stevie and Lindsey talking to each other, I don't see RTTG much differently than Smile at You and Fall From Grace too. The message is, "we can't be together. It was a mistake for me to attract you and to let you, us, entertain that hope. Maybe I turned away, pushed you away, to save you."

Michele

[CADreaming]

Well, it's still Edgar Allan Poe a little. I was just saying that Nathaniel Hawthorne couldn't be unhappier with what Stevie did to his work than EAP is.

But, um, in all serious, if we are still discussing Stevie and Lindsey talking to each other, I don't see RTTG much differently than Smile at You and Fall From Grace too. The message is, "we can't be together. It was a mistake for me to attract you and to let you, us, entertain that hope. Maybe I turned away, pushed you away, to save you."

Michele

June never said that to Johnny.

[michelej1]

June never said that to Johnny.

So, it's significant that she used a couple that stayed together and were only parted by death as her example, eh?

Michele

[Lindsfan]

Well, it's still Edgar Allan Poe a little. I was just saying that Nathaniel Hawthorne couldn't be unhappier with what Stevie did to his work than EAP is.

Oh, I agree! I just meant that this thread has been around the world, and back again!

But, um, in all serious, if we are still discussing Stevie and Lindsey talking to each other, I don't see RTTG much differently than Smile at You and Fall From Grace too. The message is, "we can't be together. It was a mistake for me to attract you and to let you, us, entertain that hope. Maybe I turned away, pushed you away, to save you."

Michele

I don't either, but what she says in her songs and what she says in one interview to the next always seem to change. Obviously, I can't read her at all. Their relationship is nothing, if not complicated.

[michelej1]

I don't either, but what she says in her songs and what she says in one interview to the next always seem to change. Obviously, I can't read her at all. Their relationship is nothing, if not complicated.

We haven't heard from Lindsey in a long time (except for his NIN comments). It would be nice if we had some interviews from him right about now and we could compare the vibes.

Michele

[Lindsfan]

So, it's significant that she used a couple that stayed together and were only parted by death as her example, eh?

Michele

See?? :shrug:

[Desiree]

Kristen is stupid?? That is extremely presumptuous!! You don't know any of these people!! She's stupid, and yet she's got a successful business of her own, is married to a man that may other women on this earth would LOVE to be married to, has three happy, beautiful kids...and we're here on a chat forum :p LOL!! :sorry: but really?? We should all be so stupid.

Down boy! I said I was rambling and apologized...should've erased. Just a bit pompous there...and how do you know many other women would want to be married to LB? Most of the women I know find the fact of his temper and suggested use of force in the past a turn off that doesn't completely go away, just because he grows up some. Now, you want to say that's unfounded too? But, really, don't mean to inflame ... yes, I think LB was a mean SOB, probably still can be, might not be...i don't know him.

And, you might just do chat forums but I'm quite pleased with my success in life: my husband doesn't go around mooning after another woman, I have 2 beautiful, smart, happy children and so on. I don't know any of these people so maybe I should just keep my mouth shut. In that case, so should you. :shocked:

Yep :nod: Obviously Lindsey and Stevie have a complicated relationship, blah blah blah, but that hardly means every word written by either one is about the other. As you stated elsewhere, some of their songs have multiple, or purposely ambiguous meanings. Others, not so much.

blah blah blah.....yep

[CADreaming]

So, it's significant that she used a couple that stayed together and were only parted by death as her example, eh?

Michele

Significant enough to her that she uses them as an example - and has before. I don't know why she does that. June gave up her career so that she could have a family with Johnny and be his backup.

[TrueFaith77]

"Come" IS about Stevie in that, as my friend definitively put it [pointing to the SYW CD]": "I only see two people on this cover!" Within the context of the Mac spectacle, these songs are always sung to each other.

That being said, the song is, apparently, literally about Anne Heche (lyrics make reference to her God delusions), which matches the timeline of the GOS sessions and fits in with other songs that apparently are about Heche (especially, off the top of my head, "Miranda").

But the context of the songs changes everything. Stevie always understands that.

[CADreaming]

"Come" IS about Stevie in that, as my friend definitively put it [pointing to the SYW CD]": "I only see two people on this cover!"

I love that cover.

[elle]

"I only see two people on this cover!" .

haha. guess you friend didn't turn it around. and he/she thinks Rumours is all about Stevie and Mick. and FM all about Mick and John. :D

i guess Tusk's about the dog.

[applebucked]

haha. guess you friend didn't turn it around. and he/she thinks Rumours is all about Stevie and Mick. and FM all about Mick and John. :D

i guess Tusk's about the dog.
:lol:

Mirage is about that three-way Stevie, Lindsey, and Chris did. Tango is about that painting (but I have another meaning for that *wink wink*). :laugh:

[CADreaming]

:lol:

Mirage is about that three-way Stevie, Lindsey, and Chris did. Tango is about that painting (but I have another meaning for that *wink wink*). :laugh:

The Dance is about the invention of photoshop.

[SadAngel86]

The Dance is about the invention of photoshop.

Hahahaha!!:lol::lol:

[michelej1]

Significant enough to her that she uses them as an example - and has before. I don't know why she does that. June gave up her career so that she could have a family with Johnny and be his backup.

Although, there is really no couple you could present to Stevie that she wouldn't use as an example of her and Lindsey, including Bella and Edward.

Of course, I've never heard her speak about Sonny and Cher. Obviously, her insights would give me pleasure.

Michele

[Lindsfan]

Down boy! I said I was rambling and apologized...should've erased.

I guess it wasn't heartfelt anyways, then, huh? I mean if it came with an expiration date :shrug:

Just a bit pompous there...and how do you know many other women would want to be married to LB?

Because I see, and hear comments all the time, saying just that.

Most of the women I know find the fact of his temper and suggested use of force in the past a turn off that doesn't completely go away, just because he grows up some.

Like I said. Some people can't get past the extreme distant past. To me, that's a sad way to live. I'm glad the women I know are able to forgive and move on and accept that people do in fact change over the decades. Not that anything Lindsey may or may not have done is our business to forgive to begin with.

But, really, don't mean to inflame.

Really? Then why did you even go to the trouble of writing this post? I thought we were done debating.

LB was a mean SOB, probably still can be, might not be...i don't know him.

No, you don't. Finally we agree on something.

I don't know any of these people so maybe I should just keep my mouth shut.

Again, we agree. But don't hold back on my account.

In that case, so should you.

Thanks for your input, but I'll just go on speaking my mind :cool:

[CADreaming]

Although, there is really no couple you could present to Stevie that she wouldn't use as an example of her and Lindsey, including Bella and Edward.



Michele

Interesting contrasts between the fictional & non-fictional.

[michelej1]

Interesting contrasts between the fictional & non-fictional.

I'm pretty sure that Stevie thinks they're Heathcliff and Cathy, as well.


Michele

[secret love]

Interesting contrasts between the fictional & non-fictional.

Moonlight (A Vampire's Dream) is an enjoyable song, I like it. Stevie says that Twilight inspired her to finish writing what already existed as Lady from the Mountains. I do worry a little bit for her if she honestly sees her relationship with Lindsey like Bella and Edward's. In Twilight as many people on these boards will no doubt know (I'm not a Twihard so this is just my understanding of it), Edward (a vampire) and Jacob (a werewolf) compete for Bella's affection, Edward wins they get married and have a vampire baby - Bella becomes a vampire.

I think more realistically, Stevie capitalised on the Twilight franchise's success by saying Lady from the Mountains was inspired by the books and films. It just doesn't add up for me that a woman who so loves Edgar Allen Poe can also adore Stephanie Meyer. I'm not a huge poetry fan, but I do have select poets I like, and given me the deceased Mr Poe over Mrs Meyer any day.

Admittedly I like to think of Stevie as a very intelligent person (and I do honestly believe she is very smart, hardworking and supremely talented) but she has made a lot of silly choices. What makes her so attractive (other than her outward appearance and fabulous makeup artists and photographers) is that she admits and owns her mistakes, the drug abuse and her relationship dramas with Lindsey and many other men, for example.

Finally, not necessarily a mistake, but she has been very open and honest about it: her difficult choice of career over children.

[allie3466]

Moonlight (A Vampire's Dream) is an enjoyable song, I like it. Stevie says that Twilight inspired her to finish writing what already existed as Lady from the Mountains. I do worry a little bit for her if she honestly sees her relationship with Lindsey like Bella and Edward's. In Twilight as many people on these boards will no doubt know (I'm not a Twihard so this is just my understanding of it), Edward (a vampire) and Jacob (a werewolf) compete for Bella's affection, Edward wins they get married and have a vampire baby - Bella becomes a vampire.

I think more realistically, Stevie capitalised on the Twilight franchise's success by saying Lady from the Mountains was inspired by the books and films. It just doesn't add up for me that a woman who so loves Edgar Allen Poe can also adore Stephanie Meyer. I'm not a huge poetry fan, but I do have select poets I like, and given me the deceased Mr Poe over Mrs Meyer any day.

I think she likes the story rather than the writing, if that makes sense. I've not read the books and I half-watched the movies because one of my best friends loves Twilight (personally not a fan at all) and what I think Stevie is drawn to is the dysfunction and drama of Edward and Bella. I played the song for my friend and told her it was about Twilight and she was like, "there are literally scenes in the movie of Bella lying on the forest floor and sitting in a chair for months staring." So I think Stevie's drawn to the melodramatics of all of that.

It's actually kind of an emotionally abusive relationship from what I understand, so I do kind of worry about her comparisons and her love for the relationship. I think she has a tendency to romanticize certain situations (as do other people who ship Bella/Edward) like that which kind of isn't okay.

[iamnotafraid]

I'm pretty sure that Stevie thinks they're Heathcliff and Cathy, as well.


Michele


I always saw them as more of a Fred and Wilma
couple myself.

[michelej1]

[Click to see recorded SYW tour footage]

http://mynewboyfriend.com/2013/09/09/music-box-fleetwood-mac-say-you-will-tour-madison-wi-2004/

Music Box: Fleetwood Mac “Say You Will” Tour, Madison, WI (2004)
September 9, 2013

By Jeffrey Christ, Mynewboyfriend.com

Fleetwood Mac’s “Say You Will” was released a little over a decade ago – in April of 2003 – and was the band’s first album since 1970 that did not feature a single track by Christine McVie, who had retired from the band in 1998, after their comeback for the ages (the release of the immensely popular live album, “The Dance,” and the sold out tour promoting it). “Say You Will” was also their first non-live album to reach the upper echelon’s of Billboard’s Top 200 Album charts in years (“The Dance” debuted at #1), where it peaked at #3. It wasn’t a perfect album (for one, it was too bloated), but to my ears, it was uniformed in its aural pleasures. Here’s my original review:


FLEETWOOD MAC Say You Will In this CD age, the megalomaniacs in the music industry deem it worthy of stuffing an insufferable amount of filler into every new release just because technology allows it. That is one minor problem with this otherwise worthwhile set from the Christine McVie-less outfit. Another being that it’s Christine McVie-less. People underestimate the totality of her role in the eon of Fleetwood Mac. While many of her songs are FM [and F.M.] classics, the importance of her contributions as an overall factor is sometimes lost on the hordes of Stevie Nicks fanatics (of which I’m proudly one). But she was the middle ground, tying together the sometimes obscure mysticism of Nicks and the avant-gardism of Lindsay. That said, there is still plenty of that obscure mysticism and avant-gardism – which, in the realm that is Buckingham Nicks, feels cozily at home – and there is still no denying their individual power of songwriting craft. In spite of the aforementioned minor quibbles, adding only a few others along the way (e.g. Nicks’ lazy drawl has the tendency to bring down a few of her tracks), Lindsay’s brilliant ‘Red Rover’ & ‘Miranda’ are oddly, compellingly beautiful and Nicks is haunting on ‘Goodbye Baby’ and splendid on new Mac classics ‘Running Through the Garden’ and ‘Smile At You,’ two years-old demos where she breathes fiery and enthralling vocals we haven’t witnessed in years. Buckingham utilizes Nicks’ gift for harmony gloriously. And, second only to the Stones, John McVie and Mick Fleetwood continue to prove that legendary rhythm sections are not made of folklore, but breathing and alive and kicking. I’m not sure how Christine would have fit in on this CD, but as it stands on its own entity, this is Fleetwood Mac’s most satisfying and consistent work since “Tusk.” My grade: A-

I recently listened to the album again after a few years, and – save for my “Tusk” proclamation (it probably wasn’t) – found that I stand by my original review. My distaste of certain tracks remain (the title track, Nicks’ meandering “Illume” and Buckingham’s cacophonous “Come” are lurid examples), but I was pleasantly surprised that (most of) the CD flowed beautifully.

Here’s some recorded footage I found in my archives of the band’s 2nd leg of their North American “Say You Will” tour. These performance clips were filmed at the Kohl Center Arena in Madison Wisconsin on May 8, 2004. (Please note: this footage was not filmed for commercial use – hence some unusual shots, e.g. the lingering shots of Mick during a Stevie vocal, dips to darkness, etc…)

[brickney723]

hmmmm.. I just read this whole thread and it is crazy funny. One thing is for sure, you can't convince anyone of anything. So, the following quote from LB on Down on Rodeo:

"Down On Rodeo" is another track on "Under the Skin" that reflects Fleetwood Mac's heady days, with lyrics such as "After the music ended there was/Nowhere to go but down" and "We never took quite enough chances we/Never had quite enough time."

"It's sort of looking at relationships that go by the wayside," both romantic and musical relationships, Buckingham said. A band can be successful commercially and critically, but he said "it doesn't mean you're having internal success."

[nicole21290]

hmmmm.. I just read this whole thread and it is crazy funny. One thing is for sure, you can't convince anyone of anything. So, the following quote from LB on Down on Rodeo:

"Down On Rodeo" is another track on "Under the Skin" that reflects Fleetwood Mac's heady days, with lyrics such as "After the music ended there was/Nowhere to go but down" and "We never took quite enough chances we/Never had quite enough time."

"It's sort of looking at relationships that go by the wayside," both romantic and musical relationships, Buckingham said. A band can be successful commercially and critically, but he said "it doesn't mean you're having internal success."

The latter line quote from Down On Rodeo is one of the ones I really have always been quite interested in considering this remarkable similarity...

We never took quite enough chances
We never had quite enough time
I did about a thousand dances
But nothing would change your mind

Say you will, say you will give me one more chance
At least give me time to change your mind
That always seems to heal the wounds, if I can
Get you to dance

[brickney723]

The latter line quote from Down On Rodeo is one of the ones I really have always been quite interested in considering this remarkable similarity...

We never took quite enough chances
We never had quite enough time
I did about a thousand dances
But nothing would change your mind

Say you will, say you will give me one more chance
At least give me time to change your mind
That always seems to heal the wounds, if I can
Get you to dance

That acknowledgment and response. I just looked at an old article today- Lindsey talking about how they've always talked to each back and forth through their music about their feelings.. Which I knew-- it's like this huge puzzle, it's all there if you take the time to put it together. It's fascinating.

[ChickenStu]

I've only listened to this one and a half times since I got it. It's OK but hardly remarkable. It's kind of the reason I'm not too keen on the idea of them doing a new studio album in 2014.

[MoonSister75]

I like SYW. It took me a while to like it, but eventually I did. It's my second favourite after Tusk, at the moment. Rumours is incredible but I've heard it too many times - so I can now only listen to it now and again. Maybe I like SYW so much as I haven't over-listened to it.