Childfree

[markolas]

I can't remember the last time I started a topic here.

Anyway, I wondered if there are any "childfree" Ledgies. Not people who don't currently have kids but might want them someday, or people who can't have kids but want them, but people who actively do not want children - ever.

It seems to be a bit of a movement, and some CF folks are more, um...adamant than others. I've been to a couple of CF websites, where people vent about being scolded about it, or looked down on. I haven't experienced much of that, but as a gay man, it's not really expected that I'll have kids.

[kak125]

I can't remember the last time I started a topic here.

Anyway, I wondered if there are any "childfree" Ledgies. Not people who don't currently have kids but might want them someday, or people who can't have kids but want them, but people who actively do not want children - ever.

It seems to be a bit of a movement, and some CF folks are more, um...adamant than others. I've been to a couple of CF websites, where people vent about being scolded about it, or looked down on. I haven't experienced much of that, but as a gay man, it's not really expected that I'll have kids.

Yes I am one of those people!! I am 33 now and have never wanted kids. People have told me since I was younger that I would want them someday but I have no desire to have them. I am too selfish and I like my free time and my money. I think its amazing that people have them and want them but for me its just not something I think about. What is annoying is people telling you how selfish you are for not having them. That part I dont get. Who says we have to have kids? Also I always get people trying to convince me to have them which is even more strange. My family used to always bug me about it but I think they are done with that now. Thank goodness!! I do get weird looks from people I just meet when I tell them I dont have kids.

[bluefox4000]

Right here. I love kids...but one of my own.....I'll pass. Luckily my Wife feels the same way...So Life's good:thumbsup: Hopefully she won't change her mind.

Mick

[ButterCookie]

I'm 17 and I know that I don't want kids. Lots and lots of people have said to me "I didn't want them when I was your age but I changed my mind." Like kak125, I'm selfish too. Also, if I get the career I'm aiming and studying for, there will be little enough time in my life for a dog let alone kids.

Can't deal with mess, don't cope well with human excretions be them from the booty, mouth, eyes or nose and do not want to see food I've cooked wasted because they "don't liiiiiiike it".

I do dogs, cats, rabbits, fish, reptiles and anything else with fur or scales :lol:

[HejiraNYC]

The world is already an overcrowded place. Children are like pets; if you want one, adopt one. The world is not going to be a better place just because you have added to the gene pool.

[kak125]

I'm 17 and I know that I don't want kids. Lots and lots of people have said to me "I didn't want them when I was your age but I changed my mind." Like kak125, I'm selfish too. Also, if I get the career I'm aiming and studying for, there will be little enough time in my life for a dog let alone kids.

Can't deal with mess, don't cope well with human excretions be them from the booty, mouth, eyes or nose and do not want to see food I've cooked wasted because they "don't liiiiiiike it".

I do dogs, cats, rabbits, fish, reptiles and anything else with fur or scales :lol:

yeah i felt the same way you did when i was 18 and havent changed my mind. yeah its so hard to juggle a career let alone adding kids to the mix. i personally dont know how people are able to do it. i have 2 cats and sometimes they feel like having kids, ha ha! thats about as much responsibility as i can handle. i love animals though so much more so then kids. i dont know why but you wont catch me saying look at how cute that baby is and things like that but i tend to go nuts when i see a cat or a dog, lol!!

[bluefox4000]

And who needs the extra stress. The worlds stressful enough. I've got my stuffed bears and that's all I need:lol:

Mick

[GODDESS6]

in my teens & 20's i swore that i would never have kids~ meh, i changed my mind when i turned 30~ i have 1 son & i was lucky to blessed w/ an easy going sweet child~ i don't want anymore tho~ my son is almost 12 & i love just having him~

[kak125]

And who needs the extra stress. The worlds stressful enough. I've got my stuffed bears and that's all I need:lol:

Mick

i hear ya! i dont know how people can deal with it all. just about all my friends have kids and all they do is complain about how they never get 2 minutes to themselves. they are always sick because the kids are sick and they never get to go out or do anything. they also cant sleep in because the kids are up early and they are always poor. that does not sound like fun at all!! i guess i am just amazed that people would want kids so much to be able to put up with all that stuff.

[estranged4life]

to be honest.

Before Debbie passed away we talked about it, and if we had a child fine...if not fine.

Since we didn't go out of our way to try to because of 'other matters' at the time (bka Debbie's successful battle against cancer), we were happy with our cats (All healthy & fixed) and didn't care about everyone else's opinion of "You need to have children...It's God's gift to you two...blahblahblabbityblah".

The world isn't going to collapse into an event horizon because I'm not a 'Father'. :thumbsup:

I know I would make a GOOD FATHER if I were to become one...I know that for a FACT.

[jannieC]

The world is already an overcrowded place. Children are like pets; if you want one, adopt one. The world is not going to be a better place just because you have added to the gene pool.

Well, it's a bit more complex than that. Hopefully you were being facetious.

I think it's incredibly UNselfish to decide against having children if you don't want them. Really, kids don't need parents that don't want them. Trust me on this one. :)

[jannieC]

i hear ya! i dont know how people can deal with it all. just about all my friends have kids and all they do is complain about how they never get 2 minutes to themselves. they are always sick because the kids are sick and they never get to go out or do anything. they also cant sleep in because the kids are up early and they are always poor. that does not sound like fun at all!! i guess i am just amazed that people would want kids so much to be able to put up with all that stuff.

Ha- it's not always like that, though. Raising my daughter is the easiest, most fun thing I've ever done. I get up before she does in the morning and I can't wait for her to get going so I can see her. I hate going to work (even though I love my job) because I miss her. I make the most of every minute with her; we play, laugh, dance, cry, cuddle, and talk. I can have all the time I want to myself, thanks to a husband who loves being a parent as much as I do. See how different it all sounds coming from this point of view? :woohoo:

[bretonbanquet]

The world is not going to be a better place just because you have added to the gene pool.

That depends on who you are. Good job Mr and Mrs Lennon / Zimmerman / Nicks (!) etc didn't listen to that kind of comment.

For every person who didn't want kids at 20 and never changes their mind, there's someone who turns 35 or 40 and realises that maybe they did want kids after all, and then it's more difficult. Everyone's different - for many people, money and "stuff" are meaningless, and free time can get pretty dull after a while.

[HejiraNYC]

Well, it's a bit more complex than that. Hopefully you were being facetious.

I think it's incredibly UNselfish to decide against having children if you don't want them. Really, kids don't need parents that don't want them. Trust me on this one. :)

I'm usually facetious. I can understand why people want to see blood of their own. But, really, isn't the capacity to love unconditionally extended to those not of your making as well? :shrug: Why is it more complex?

[kak125]

Ha- it's not always like that, though. Raising my daughter is the easiest, most fun thing I've ever done. I get up before she does in the morning and I can't wait for her to get going so I can see her. I hate going to work (even though I love my job) because I miss her. I make the most of every minute with her; we play, laugh, dance, cry, cuddle, and talk. I can have all the time I want to myself, thanks to a husband who loves being a parent as much as I do. See how different it all sounds coming from this point of view? :woohoo:

aww thats nice! i guess i never hear anybody talk like that about their kids. i know they love them and have fun with them but all i ever hear is the complaining and whining about how lucky i am that i can go out and do stuff. i think if thats what you want to do in life that's awesome!

[HejiraNYC]

That depends on who you are. Good job Mr and Mrs Lennon / Zimmerman / Nicks (!) etc didn't listen to that kind of comment.

For every person who didn't want kids at 20 and never changes their mind, there's someone who turns 35 or 40 and realises that maybe they did want kids after all, and then it's more difficult. Everyone's different - for many people, money and "stuff" are meaningless, and free time can get pretty dull after a while.

John Lennon was adopted.

[GODDESS6]

Ha- it's not always like that, though. Raising my daughter is the easiest, most fun thing I've ever done. I get up before she does in the morning and I can't wait for her to get going so I can see her. I hate going to work (even though I love my job) because I miss her. I make the most of every minute with her; we play, laugh, dance, cry, cuddle, and talk. I can have all the time I want to myself, thanks to a husband who loves being a parent as much as I do. See how different it all sounds coming from this point of view? :woohoo:

amen to that jannie, i adore every moment w/ my son & even tho he is almost 12, i still get teary eyed watching him sleep~ having him has made me a much better, caring, loving, woman~

[bretonbanquet]

John Lennon was adopted.

No, he wasn't :shrug:

[HejiraNYC]

No, he wasn't :shrug:

http://famous.adoption.com/famous/lennon-john-winston.html

[DavidMn]

I don't see myself ever having children for the simple reason that I don't have the patience for them. I'd rather not be a parent than be a poor one. There's more than enough of those to go around.:nod:

[bretonbanquet]

http://famous.adoption.com/famous/lennon-john-winston.html

And? He wasn't adopted - it doesn't even say he was adopted in that link. He was raised by his aunt and uncle from the age of five, which, I'm sure you'll appreciate, isn't the same thing. As I said originally, good job Mr and Mrs Lennon didn't listen to comments like your original one.

[estranged4life]

I'd rather not be a parent than be a poor one.

I'd rather not be a parent unless I could be a great one (Which I know I could easily do...My nieces & nephews helped ease my 'uneasiness' around children...along with my ex-fiancee's daughter, who I call 'lovingly' my daughter)

Debbie used to come home and 'decompress' from her work at the hospital's "OB" ward by telling me (I'm a better listener than talker) about the children being born to parents who didn't even want the child, which bothered Debbie alot (Because of what is written below this paragraph)...It bothered her moreso when a child was born to a young person (I remember she told of a 12 year old girl had given birth on her shift, I was like "WTHOAF???!!!") or to someone who was a drug addict.

I clearly remember when Deb was battling cancer her oncologist told me "If you decide to have children while she is battling this cancer, you are going to have to make a hard choice between losing a child or losing your wife...or both" - Common sense prevailed to that statement.

We talked about adoption...But...the OBVIOUS happened and derailed those plans.

[HejiraNYC]

And? He wasn't adopted - it doesn't even say he was adopted in that link. He was raised by his aunt and uncle from the age of five, which, I'm sure you'll appreciate, isn't the same thing. As I said originally, good job Mr and Mrs Lennon didn't listen to comments like your original one.

He was adopted- whether in the technical or functional sense. Indeed, it was probably his adopted family that nurtured him into becoming the Beatle we all know and love.

http://www.indyposted.com/19929/top-10-celebrities-who-were-adopted/#




3. John Lennon

This Beatles star had a very troubled childhood. He was born to Julia and Alfred Lennon, and there was a bit of a custody battle between them until he was about five. Ultimately, he was raised by his mother’s sister, Mary Smith, who once said, “I knew the moment I saw John in that hospital that I was the one to be his mother, not Julia. Does that sound awful? It isn’t, really, because Julia accepted it as something perfectly natural. She used to say, ‘You’re his real mother. All I did was give birth.’”

[bretonbanquet]

He was adopted- whether in the technical or functional sense. Indeed, it was probably his adopted family that nurtured him into becoming the Beatle we all know and love.

http://www.indyposted.com/19929/top-10-celebrities-who-were-adopted/#

Hard to imagine you being wronger about that. His aunt refused to allow a record player into the house. He saw his mother practically every day, she bought him his first guitar and taught him how to play it, bought him his first records and he used to go down the road to her house to play them while they danced around her kitchen. Shortly before she died, she was one of The Quarrymen's biggest fans, while Mimi disapproved of the whole music idea, like most people of her generation. Mimi Smith had nothing whatsoever to do with Lennon becoming a musician, and she never liked McCartney or Harrison. She and her husband put a roof over his head, fed him and sent him to school, and they were a decent, loving couple - but without his mother, John would've been an accountant or something.

And you're either adopted, or you're not. Either you do the legal process or you don't. Mimi and George Smith were guardians, not adoptive parents.

[jannieC]

I'm usually facetious. I can understand why people want to see blood of their own. But, really, isn't the capacity to love unconditionally extended to those not of your making as well? :shrug: Why is it more complex?

As an adoptive mother, I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded statement. The whole "just adopt!" attitude is what I was referring to as being "complex". Babies aren't just dropping from the skies.

[HomerMcvie]

I'm 17 and I know that I don't want kids. Lots and lots of people have said to me "I didn't want them when I was your age but I changed my mind." Like kak125, I'm selfish too.
Just be warned, that you might change. I just learned yesterday, that my 26yo cousin is expecting. And she always used to tell me that she that she never wanted kids. But her opinion had changed, in the past couple of years. Tick, tick, tick..... Maybe it's a way out for her....she hates being a teacher, and her husband makes big bucks, and wants her to be a stay at home Mom.....

As for me, in my 20's, I always thought I wanted a kid or two. By my mid 30's, though, I changed my mind. I love to travel, frequently, and love spending my money on me. IF I'd ever manage to get married(not looking good, at this point:lol: ), and my partner wanted a child, well, .......I guess I'd consider it. But it probably wouldn't be my first choice.
And yes, we are over-populated, already. ADOPTION!

[jannieC]

Pretend for the moment that you want to adopt a child. Do the research and report back to everyone how easy it is to adopt! I'm saying this with a smile, not a scowl- I just don't think many realize what it takes to adopt.

[HomerMcvie]

As an adoptive mother, I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded statement. The whole "just adopt!" attitude is what I was referring to as being "complex". Babies aren't just dropping from the skies.

As an adopted child, I agree completely. Wanna know something sh*tty.....after my Mom passed, my aunt said to me, "I hope you know that you're still welcome, at all of our get togethers".
While that could be taken nicely, am I the only one, who sees the implication, that "you really weren't hers, so you're really not one of us, but we still want to see you, anyway"?
I thought it was a sh*tty thing to say. I mean, I was adopted at birth....it's not like I didn't come along until I was 15, or something.... Bitch!:lol:

[HejiraNYC]

Hard to imagine you being wronger about that. His aunt refused to allow a record player into the house. He saw his mother practically every day, she bought him his first guitar and taught him how to play it, bought him his first records and he used to go down the road to her house to play them while they danced around her kitchen. Shortly before she died, she was one of The Quarrymen's biggest fans, while Mimi disapproved of the whole music idea, like most people of her generation. Mimi Smith had nothing whatsoever to do with Lennon becoming a musician, and she never liked McCartney or Harrison. She and her husband put a roof over his head, fed him and sent him to school, and they were a decent, loving couple - but without his mother, John would've been an accountant or something.

And you're either adopted, or you're not. Either you do the legal process or you don't. Mimi and George Smith were guardians, not adoptive parents.

http://www.instantkarma.com/johnbio.html

Well, other accounts seem to consider "Mimi" to be the grounding influence in John's life. Besides, no matter how much he visited his mother, he was not raised by her. They were more like buddies... and he had a decidedly unhealthy preoccupation with her. :eek:

John moved in with his aunt at Mendips at 251 Menlove Avenue before he was five, so despite the fact that he made regular visits to his mother's house, John's major, grounding influence in his life was Mary Smith..lovingly referred to through the years as Aunt Mimi. One biographer noted that even though John could engage in outrageous behavior and be rude, when the occasion called for it, John, moreso than Paul, George or Ringo, knew how to behave with grace in social situations. These skills he learned from Aunt Mary and Uncle George, who were slightly up the scale economically and socially from the other Beatles' families.

[HejiraNYC]

Pretend for the moment that you want to adopt a child. Do the research and report back to everyone how easy it is to adopt! I'm saying this with a smile, not a scowl- I just don't think many realize what it takes to adopt.

I know it is a time-consuming, expensive proposition. But so is childbirth! My hats off to you for making the effort and giving someone needy a loving home and family.

[kak125]

As an adopted child, I agree completely. Wanna know something sh*tty.....after my Mom passed, my aunt said to me, "I hope you know that you're still welcome, at all of our get togethers".
While that could be taken nicely, am I the only one, who sees the implication, that "you really weren't hers, so you're really not one of us, but we still want to see you, anyway"?
I thought it was a sh*tty thing to say. I mean, I was adopted at birth....it's not like I didn't come along until I was 15, or something.... Bitch!:lol:

wow who says something like that? to me that sounds really ****ty! you should have said thanks but no thanks biatch!!

[estranged4life]

Pretend for the moment that you want to adopt a child. Do the research and report back to everyone how easy it is to adopt! I'm saying this with a smile, not a scowl- I just don't think many realize what it takes to adopt.

brother always had an issue with Dad, being Dad was not his biological Father - but he raised him equally with his two sons (My older brother Geary & myself) and all my oldest brother can do is bitch about "Why didn't Geary adopt me?" (The f**ker ALWAYS refers to Dad by his first name)...I had enough and chimed in "It wasn't like we had MONEY back then so he could LEGALLY adopt your ass..."

Debbie and I looked into adoption and saw alot we would had HAVE to accomplish to be able to adopt - so I understand your point, it takes ALOT to adopt.

[HejiraNYC]

As an adopted child, I agree completely. Wanna know something sh*tty.....after my Mom passed, my aunt said to me, "I hope you know that you're still welcome, at all of our get togethers".
While that could be taken nicely, am I the only one, who sees the implication, that "you really weren't hers, so you're really not one of us, but we still want to see you, anyway"?
I thought it was a sh*tty thing to say. I mean, I was adopted at birth....it's not like I didn't come along until I was 15, or something.... Bitch!:lol:

OMG. That is just about the worst thing to say to someone who just lost his mother. I could understand her saying that if she was your aunt-in-law, but she is one of your close relatives. Geez... :distress:

[jannieC]

As an adopted child, I agree completely. Wanna know something sh*tty.....after my Mom passed, my aunt said to me, "I hope you know that you're still welcome, at all of our get togethers".
While that could be taken nicely, am I the only one, who sees the implication, that "you really weren't hers, so you're really not one of us, but we still want to see you, anyway"?
I thought it was a sh*tty thing to say. I mean, I was adopted at birth....it's not like I didn't come along until I was 15, or something.... Bitch!:lol:

My mother commented once on my daughter's height and said something along the lines of, "well, she must get it from my side of the family." :shocked: We ALL tend to forget that Laney didn't come from my body. She is so much a part of us, it's ridiculous. I think that was a ****ty thing for your aunt to say.

[bretonbanquet]

http://www.instantkarma.com/johnbio.html

Well, other accounts seem to consider "Mimi" to be the grounding influence in John's life. Besides, no matter how much he visited his mother, he was not raised by her. They were more like buddies... and he had a decidedly unhealthy preoccupation with her. :eek:

Certainly, the Smiths were a middle-class couple, and John picked up his more middle-class traits from them. Mimi even tried to make John lose his Liverpudlian accent because it was working class, and she tried to stop him playing at the Cavern because it was so dreadful - "We'll have to stop this!" she said... "Grounding influence"? What does that even mean? His life wasn't that of someone with his feet on the ground. He became the John Lennon we know despite any grounding influence.

The stories of him being obsessed with his mother in unhealthy ways seem totally unfounded - they were very close and she was killed in his street when he was 17, of course it affected him deeply. More than most of us can imagine.

The point is that baby John wasn't found under a bush - his parents brought him into the world and the world is a much better place for them adding to the gene pool, which I think is where we came in.

[markolas]

On another message board I frequent, a woman posted that someone told her that she wasn't really a mother because she'd had a C-section. !!!

So, since I was born via C-section, does that mean I'm not a real person, since my mother didn't "really give birth"? lol

People have lots of strange ideas about children/parenting. The "you'll change your mind" thing drives CF people up a wall - it seems to be only directed at women. There still seems to be this idea that a woman's primary function is to give birth, and if you go against that, you're some kind of freak.

Also, part of it seems to be that people feel like you're passing judgment on them if you're not doing things they way they're doing them. So the constant refrains of "you'll change your mind," "it's different when they're your own," and "who'll take care of you when you get old?" are just plain old defensiveness.

But it's annoying, and it's rude. Being a man, I don't get any of it. And being gay, it would take a very concerted effort on my part to have a child; there's no risk of it happening "by accident," unless my penis "accidentally" falls into a vagina. lol

[GypsySorcerer]

Well, I believe "never say never," but I really do not think I want children for numerous reasons. I do not feel I need children to be fulfilled. :shrug: I also don't think everyone is meant to be a parent.

[jannieC]

But it's annoying, and it's rude. Being a man, I don't get any of it. And being gay, it would take a very concerted effort on my part to have a child; there's no risk of it happening "by accident," unless my penis "accidentally" falls into a vagina. lol

Okay this REALLY made me laugh! :lol:

[Stew_Matthews]

My mother commented once on my daughter's height and said something along the lines of, "well, she must get it from my side of the family." :shocked: We ALL tend to forget that Laney didn't come from my body. She is so much a part of us, it's ridiculous.

This made me laugh alot :). We have a complicated set up - I have two stepsons, a daughter with my wife, and last year we adopted two very young children. Both are African American (my wife and I are white - me British and my wife Italian/ American). My adopted 4 year old son has a bit to say for himself (which I like) and I remember being in a Chicago restaurant with lots of people around and my mother-in-law said something like - ' that boy has to have the last word doesn't he - he's just like his father!' - meaning me! Everyone laughed but they do become just part of the family. They really do.

[Meowi]

I'm still 15, but I know I want children.
And those who say that children are 'pets' - weren't you a child once? Weren't you a pet one day?

[Silver Springs]

I don't want children. I don't like children. Yet they seem fascinated by me and my breakable things. Cats shall be my future offspring.

[markolas]

Yeah...I'm not one of those people who goes around calling them crotch-droppings, but I don't especially care for kids. I don't think babies are cute - they are noisy and smelly, and no I don't want to hold it or hear incessant FB posts about it, or see pics of their scraped knees or their first booger or whatever. I mean, please. :eek:

[kak125]

Yeah...I'm not one of those people who goes around calling them crotch-droppings, but I don't especially care for kids. I don't think babies are cute - they are noisy and smelly, and no I don't want to hold it or hear incessant FB posts about it, or see pics of their scraped knees or their first booger or whatever. I mean, please. :eek:

oh my i hear ya there. ugh its like enough already. i dont care that your kid won his soccer game or that he got a new pair of shoes or that he is tall for his age etc. it drives me nuts!!

[bluefox4000]

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yIXlwYoOV9k?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yIXlwYoOV9k?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Mick

[estranged4life]

is God Bless George Carlin :thumbsup:


His rant reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw and just had to own:

"You May Be a Proud Parent...
But You're Still a F**king Idiot"

[markolas]

oh my i hear ya there. ugh its like enough already. i dont care that your kid won his soccer game or that he got a new pair of shoes or that he is tall for his age etc. it drives me nuts!!

Well, stuff like that doesn't bother me much, unless it's excessive. But I have this girl on there that I went to H.S. with, and once she posted multiple photos of her kid's scraped knee. It was really gross. I hid her posts from my feed after that. Another one used to go on and on about her daughter's potty training progress...I ended up de-friending her for unrelated reasons.

I think some parents just don't get that stuff like that grosses people out.

[jannieC]

Another one used to go on and on about her daughter's potty training progress...I ended up de-friending her for unrelated reasons.

I think some parents just don't get that stuff like that grosses people out.

I announced my daughter's first episode on the throne on FB. :shocked: She did it with such pizazz that I felt I <i>had</i> to.

[HomerMcvie]

My mother commented once on my daughter's height and said something along the lines of, "well, she must get it from my side of the family." :shocked: We ALL tend to forget that Laney didn't come from my body. She is so much a part of us, it's ridiculous. I think that was a ****ty thing for your aunt to say.

Thanks guys(I wish I knew how to quote multiple ppl, in one response). I've never told anyone that she said that, and it's always bothered me. I'm glad to hear, that I didn't take it the wrong way.
Bitch!:lol:



(I typed this, hours ago, got busy, and forgot to hit send)

[mezzoforte]

I've always felt that biological imperative to procreate very strongly. I honestly wish I felt differently--I've invested so much work, my parents so much money in my my education. I love my independence and my studies and wish I didn't have this longing for children. But there we are--Mother Nature is a bitch goddess. In the name of species continuation, she compels men to think about sex every seven seconds and many women to feel unfulfilled without having children.

I've always hated, though, that because a majority of women share my need to procreate and because the image of the "angel of the home" has proven a persistent one, we project that drive onto all women. Not that men don't face criticism for choosing not to procreate--they do. But the tone is different with women--there's a perception that women must want children, that the decision not to is probably a temporary one, that those who never have children are less womanly for their choice.
I recently read an interview with Mena Suvari. She's probably a lovely person who didn't mean anything by it, but some of her remarks about having children rubbed me the wrong way. "Everyone wants a child," and, "That's where you really find yourself. That's what's important about life." Obviously this is just one small example, but it perpetuates the widespread idea that the ultimate fulfillment lies in procreation. A slightly insidious message, I think.
Not everyone needs to be a parent, and not everyone should be a parent. When people decide not to, it doesn't make them selfish or their lives more superficial. Far better to consciously decide that parenting is not for you than to become a crappy parent. In fact, I'm deeply jealous of those confident they can feel fulfilled without having children.

[bluefox4000]

is God Bless George Carlin :thumbsup:


His rant reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw and just had to own:

"You May Be a Proud Parent...
But You're Still a F**king Idiot"

LOL. Yea George is a hero and i miss him dearly. Him and Bill Hicks

Mick

[bretonbanquet]

Parents who feel the need to publicise and promote every breath that their children take are just that kind of people. It's not an issue with everyone who has kids, it's just what some people are like. If they weren't pushing pictures of their kids' scraped knees at you, they'd be pushing something else at you - while other parents don't feel that need. It's hardly a rational reason to bash parents in general. It's the same as a minority of gay people who feel they have to remind you on a regular basis that they're gay, or people who can't seem to stop alluding to the fact that they're wealthy. It's just personality types, attention-seekers. If they p**s you off, ignore them, as someone said :shrug:

[jannieC]

Parents who feel the need to publicise and promote every breath that their children take are just that kind of people. It's not an issue with everyone who has kids, it's just what some people are like. If they weren't pushing pictures of their kids' scraped knees at you, they'd be pushing something else at you - while other parents don't feel that need. It's hardly a rational reason to bash parents in general. It's the same as a minority of gay people who feel they have to remind you on a regular basis that they're gay, or people who can't seem to stop alluding to the fact that they're wealthy. It's just personality types, attention-seekers. If they p**s you off, ignore them, as someone said :shrug:

I have a friend (former co-worker) who does this. She and her partner both document every move their child makes on FB and they also have a blog. About their child. While I find it kind of interestingly annoying, I haven't hidden their statuses yet. I think I'm somewhat intrigued by them, actually.

First potty moment aside, I rarely update stuff on my daughter. I post pictures if I take cute ones and that's about it. Just because *I* think she's fascinatingly cute, doesn't mean everyone else does.

[Meowi]

My mother commented once on my daughter's height and said something along the lines of, "well, she must get it from my side of the family." :shocked: We ALL tend to forget that Laney didn't come from my body. She is so much a part of us, it's ridiculous. I think that was a ****ty thing for your aunt to say.

I am bit dazed at how this miraculous form of birth works.
Could you please give me a quick run down?

[jannieC]

I am bit dazed at how this miraculous form of birth works.
Could you please give me a quick run down?

Say what???

[Meowi]

Like, was it an IVF treatment or something else?

[Nikolaj]

I can't remember the last time I started a topic here.

Anyway, I wondered if there are any "childfree" Ledgies. Not people who don't currently have kids but might want them someday, or people who can't have kids but want them, but people who actively do not want children - ever.

It seems to be a bit of a movement, and some CF folks are more, um...adamant than others. I've been to a couple of CF websites, where people vent about being scolded about it, or looked down on. I haven't experienced much of that, but as a gay man, it's not really expected that I'll have kids.

I have no children and never will. I like very much being an uncle, and was very unbothered by diaper changes, caring for the children when they got sick,- they are germy little creatures- and I enjoyed helping them as much as I could when they needed reassurance as very young kids- but that's enough for me.
In my late 20s I once seriously considered adopting one day, or foster parenting, but changed my mind by the time I was 30.
So, by choice I am "childfree" and always will be- My beloved little girl cat, I think of her as my child and consider myself her 'daddy'. She's the most important part of my life and my true source of happiness here on Earth. I have to be careful, because I always want to remember the source of all my blessings, which is why I make the Earth clarification.
I think the worst part of being a parent to an actual child wouldn't be having a child to nurture and be responsible for- for me, the worst part would be the endless social obligations I witnessed with my sister in her parenting- the ridiculous amount of carpooling, the dramas, good and bad with her fellow parents, the sleepovers, the 'favors', the cliques, for a start. Oh my, worst of all is the oppressive and unreasonable demands of private schools, the actual politics involved with raising a child, if you or your children are educationally motivated are unbelievable. The nitpicking and compulsive behavior of educators and demands made (I realize it is to benefit the children) make me re-think the merits of public schools- my sister is so strong, and nearly a saint- There were advisors who'd think nothing of making me wait more than an hour than when I was told to pick up the children, over important (I'm sure) issues- but your time is never respected by these type of schools.
Plus, for years, my sister cooked the entire faculty lunch every Friday- and we're talking impressive lunches- this particular private school required their a*sses to be kissed, regularly. I'd have made them one lunch that would have kept them in the bathroom all day and be done with that little requirement being asked of me, in quick work. No, that likely would have been illegal- but I would have wanted to!
All the charity fundraising required of the parents- just for the privilege of paying a college-tuition fee for every year the kids went to school, with no transportation provided. My sister's spent the past 2o years or so as a slave to being behind the wheel, and I haven't even touched on specialists, music lessons, judo, and every imaginable activity she felt compelled to provide for each child. She is amazing. I think you have to be amazing to be a parent if you're going to do the job properly. I'd need a couch potato for a kid, or I'd be out of luck!
Being a parent- Not for me.

[jannieC]

Like, was it an IVF treatment or something else?
Oh- no, my daughter is adopted.

[Meowi]

Oh- no, my daughter is adopted.

Ok, sorry for the confusion.
:D

I'm glad that your daughter is being brought up in such a loving environment.

[mylittledemon]

I can't remember the last time I started a topic here.

Anyway, I wondered if there are any "childfree" Ledgies. Not people who don't currently have kids but might want them someday, or people who can't have kids but want them, but people who actively do not want children - ever.


It depends on what day of the week you catch me.

Generally I think I don't want kids, ever. Maybe once or twice a month I wish I was a father. My wife says she wants kids... but no plans on having them. :shrug:

[LukeA]

Some would say that a child is the ultimate STD.

Not me, but, still, some would.

[louielouie2000]

It depends on what day of the week you catch me.

Generally I think I don't want kids, ever. Maybe once or twice a month I wish I was a father. My wife says she wants kids... but no plans on having them. :shrug:

I'm kind of the same way. I really wanted nothing to do with kids until my niece was born. I totally fell in love with her when her personality started emerging, though. By the time she was 1 year old she was running around finding necklaces and hairbows for you to put on her. She changed shoes like 12 times a day. She would bring you nail polish for you to paint her nails. All of this before she could even talk. I call her my little Carrie Bradshaw :D. Carlee is just such an amazingly cool kid. She wakes up in the morning with the biggest smile, and goes to bed with that same smile. She's just plain fun to be around (she's nearly 3 now). I really wish she were my own. On top of that, my Brother's such a piece of crap... not only does he not deserve my niece, but he's going to expose her to such terrible things... and relegate her to an awful childhood and probably an awful life. It's crossed my mind so many times the past few years that I wish it were me who'd had a child and not him (tho since I'm gay, that's not exactly possible!).

But then I sober up and realize how I'd be a terrible Dad. I'm horribly selfish. And I wouldn't want to sacrifice certain aspects of my life to have a kid. Not to mention, most small children are not as fun AND low maintenance as my niece. Add to the fact my other half absolutely does NOT want kids, so no kids will be in my future. And that's probably for the best, to be honest. :)

[CreepingDeath]

Well, I believe "never say never," but I really do not think I want children for numerous reasons. I do not feel I need children to be fulfilled. :shrug: I also don't think everyone is meant to be a parent.

This.


A day doesn't go by without a c0-worker, a family member, or someone in one of my college classes asking me why I don't have kids. 26 is looked at as a dried up old maid, I guess. My biological clock can keep on tick, tick, ticking. I don't want a little demon spawn.

[1sttimelongtime]

I've found that the quickest way to stop people from asking you if you want kids is to say "Hell no, I HATE kids". I've used it with great success, even though I dont really hate kids. But I sure as hell dont want one. I'm too selfish. I drive by an elementary school every day, and see parents sitting around watching their children playing baseball or whatever. I cant imagine anything I'd rather do less.

[MissLadyLoki]

I want a kid one of these days, but honestly, 20 is a tad young

[HomerMcvie]

I've found that the quickest way to stop people from asking you if you want kids is to say "Hell no, I HATE kids". I've used it with great success, even though I dont really hate kids. But I sure as hell dont want one. I'm too selfish. I drive by an elementary school every day, and see parents sitting around watching their children playing baseball or whatever. I cant imagine anything I'd rather do less.

I agree. I do hate BADLY behaved kids, and love well behaved kids.
In my 20's, I wanted kids. 30's said bye bye to that. I like spending my money on swimming pools, guitars, and my travels. Just one kid, would end all of that. So fukc that!

And I regularly get guessed 10-15 years younger than I am, and I know it's due to the fact that I've not had to deal with all the stress of raising kids. I've always gotten my rest, and have a pretty stress free life.

[michelle2677]

I'm usually facetious. I can understand why people want to see blood of their own. But, really, isn't the capacity to love unconditionally extended to those not of your making as well? :shrug: Why is it more complex?

i don't think it's exactly fair for someone to tell anyone not to have children, especially a man telling a woman. men don't have biological clocks. and by that i mean, when you're 80 you can change your mind and say "oh, i was wrong. i think it's ok to have my own child" and skiddle-y bop you go. i think it's a personal decision within 2 people in a relationship (or a single parent, whatever your choice). i commend people who adopt, but i commend people who adopt and don't have to even more. that is a totally selfless thing to do, but i don't think people who can and choose to have their own child are a$$holes.


<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yIXlwYoOV9k?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yIXlwYoOV9k?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Mick

i just watched this for the first time last night!!! :laugh:

Parents who feel the need to publicise and promote every breath that their children take are just that kind of people. It's not an issue with everyone who has kids, it's just what some people are like. If they weren't pushing pictures of their kids' scraped knees at you, they'd be pushing something else at you - while other parents don't feel that need. It's hardly a rational reason to bash parents in general. It's the same as a minority of gay people who feel they have to remind you on a regular basis that they're gay, or people who can't seem to stop alluding to the fact that they're wealthy. It's just personality types, attention-seekers. If they p**s you off, ignore them, as someone said :shrug:

or people who feel the need to shove pics of their dog in your face :o i think it's because they think their child/dog/gayness/wealthiness/fabulousness/etc is so awesome that they think you'll love it too. most of my friends know not to push their children on me because i'm a self-proclaimed child-hater :lol: not really, but...


i don't think it's fair to tell a 15 year old child she WILL change her mind when she gets older because no one can predict the future. but i don't think it's offensive to say "you MAY change your mind when you get older". it's like saying "you MAY crash your car while texting and driving" or "you MAY get the pukies and the runnies if you drink expired milk". women aren't here to push out babies, but it is a general fact that as women get older, that need gets stronger and stronger. when i was 15 i didn't want kids either. hell, when i was 25 i didn't want kids. but things change.

[bretonbanquet]

or people who feel the need to shove pics of their dog in your face :o i think it's because they think their child/dog/gayness/wealthiness/fabulousness/etc is so awesome that they think you'll love it too. most of my friends know not to push their children on me because i'm a self-proclaimed child-hater :lol: not really, but...

Dogs are fine. Who hates dogs? Kids aren't so many people's cup of tea - especially judging by this thread :laugh:


i don't think it's fair to tell a 15 year old child she WILL change her mind when she gets older because no one can predict the future. but i don't think it's offensive to say "you MAY change your mind when you get older". it's like saying "you MAY crash your car while texting and driving" or "you MAY get the pukies and the runnies if you drink expired milk". women aren't here to push out babies, but it is a general fact that as women get older, that need gets stronger and stronger. when i was 15 i didn't want kids either. hell, when i was 25 i didn't want kids. but things change.

Truth. Except that if you text and drive, at some point you probably will crash :nod:

[McTrouble]

I agree. I do hate BADLY behaved kids, and love well behaved kids.
In my 20's, I wanted kids. 30's said bye bye to that. I like spending my money on swimming pools, guitars, and my travels. Just one kid, would end all of that. So fukc that!

And I regularly get guessed 10-15 years younger than I am, and I know it's due to the fact that I've not had to deal with all the stress of raising kids. I've always gotten my rest, and have a pretty stress free life.

I am totally on the same wavelength as you on this one.

Me and hubby decided straight after getting married that kids were a no no. We knew we wanted a stress free, no responsibility lifestyle. If you don't have that 24/7 responsibility the years are kinder to you, we have found.

We are lucky to have 6 nieces and nephews and that's enough for us! You can spoil 'em and then give 'em back.

We've had good careers (my husband still does, I was lucky enough to retire a few years ago at 40) and therefore had the money to own our home outright at an early age and to travel the world whilst still young. We still feel like we are in our 20's and have been together for nearly 28 years now.

We have also had the time to devote to each other and not let the romance slide because we've had no worry or tiredness that revolves around kids.

It is very hard for people who love kids to understand but we wouldn't change a thing and for us it was the best decision ever.

[cliffdweller]

The whole "just adopt!" attitude is what I was referring to as being "complex". Babies aren't just dropping from the skies.

And it's really expensive too: 50,000+ in some cases depending on the adoption route you take.

[McTrouble]

I don't want children. I don't like children. Yet they seem fascinated by me and my breakable things. Cats shall be my future offspring.

Why do they gravitate towards you when you can't abide them? It bugs the hell out of me!

[Fleetwoodmark]

The world is already an overcrowded place. Children are like pets; if you want one, adopt one. The world is not going to be a better place just because you have added to the gene pool.

I'm sure Hitler said something like that before ;)

[Fleetwoodmark]

Just looking over this thread makes me depressed - I've never seen such a collection of selfishness and self centered out pourings - You don't want kids because you don't want to deviate any of your money away from yourself ?

That's probably the most distasteful thing I've heard in a long time !

[bluefox4000]

What's wrong with not wanting kids. lol. Some.......like myself would just suck as a parents:thumbsup: And we're happy not to have those little S**t factories:p And yes they burn money..truth

Mick

[ButterCookie]

Just looking over this thread makes me depressed - I've never seen such a collection of selfishness and self centered out pourings - You don't want kids because you don't want to deviate any of your money away from yourself ?

That's probably the most distasteful thing I've heard in a long time !

While I can understand why it upsets you and do agree that things are selfish in here (I definitely speak for myself, I'm a selfish b*tch, I aint gonna change) surely it's better that we're recognising these traits in ourselves and choosing not to inflict them on children and therefore not being bad parents to said children that we don't want?

[GypsySorcerer]

^^^ Agreed. I do not want children because I think I would be a lousy parent, and I am perfectly happy without them. While my childhood was certainly not bad (and compared to some, it was probably good), I am scared to death I would parent like my mother. I love her, but I don't want to turn into her.

[vivfox]

I'm 49 now. When I was 15 I said I was never going to get married and never going to have kids. My family was convinced I was gonna be the one to have the most kids.

I never got married and I never had kids. For a few minutes in my late 30's I wished I had kids but that was because I was lonely and thought they would fill that void.

With pride I can state that I have never changed a diaper in my life.:thumbsup: Kids annoy me. Keep them away from me. Please don't toss your kid on the phone when I've called to talk to YOU. Nothing annoys me more than to have to talk baby talk to a toddler.

A good friend recently had a baby and keeps badgering me to come over and see it. I don't give a fu&k about newborns. It only means I have to spend money on a gift. Plus she lives on the 4th floor of an apt. building with no elevator and Viv does not want to climb those stairs!

Like others have mentioned, I too am selfish with my time and money. I love my nieces and nephews but was always happy to send them back to their parents when they annoyed me.

I used to babysit my young cousins back in the early 1980's and these two girls always pissed me off. They recently reminded me that in order to chase them out of the room I would loudly sing songs by Stevie Nicks and they would repulsively run upstairs to avoid my horrible singing.

I have a policy that no one is aloud to bring their kids into my home if they are 3 years old or younger. They touch things and break things. Not cool.

And lastly(I really don't mean to offend any Ledgie) I don't like feeling obligated to say, "congratulations, you are having a baby!" But I have said this in the past and unfortunately will have to say this in the future again and again.

Rant over.

[kak125]

i always feel bad for feeling this way but everytime a friend of mine tells me they are pregnant i get so sad. i think its because i know that we wont be hanging out anymore and that just means another friend bites the dust. i feel bad for not feeling happy for them but its so hard losing so many friends these days. i now tend to gravitate more towards people that i know dont want kids. i just wish women could have babies and still go out and do stuff every so often. my friends never want to do anything. its like give the baby to your hubby for the night - geesh!!
what i hate the worst is baby showers. i am not into babies or baby stuff so i hate hate hate baby showers. i hate pretending that i am into that crap and i am sick of being invited and having to shell out cash for gifts when i know that i wont ever see that cash coming back to me since i wont be having any kids. ugh!! i have a shower on march 6th and i am dreading it!! why do people get so excited about this stuff i have no idea!!

[Fleetwoodmark]

While I can understand why it upsets you and do agree that things are selfish in here (I definitely speak for myself, I'm a selfish b*tch, I aint gonna change) surely it's better that we're recognising these traits in ourselves and choosing not to inflict them on children and therefore not being bad parents to said children that we don't want?

Yeah I totally understand,

Maybe I'm not used to people being that open about their negative traits :)

[bretonbanquet]

I'm no baby lover - never even held one - but I'm quite surprised at the level of distaste for kids on here. And the love of money is a bit surprising too - sure, it sucks to be poor - but what vital s**t are you dudes spending your money on that would be so jeopardised by having kids around? ButterCookie is right when she says there's no sense in selfish people having kids only to make them miserable - that's true - but equally it's not really anything to be proud of in the real world. In most social situations, comments like some on this thread would result in people making excuses and quietly edging away from you.

Some might say that if you don't leave anyone behind when you go, and you spend your whole life devoting all your time and money to yourself, what was the point in being here?

[kak125]

i know for me i would rather spend my money on my house and my hubby and then i like to go to a lot of concerts and i like shopping and all that kinds of stuff. i know when you have a kid you cant do all those things because you have to pay for daycare and food and clothes and all that stuff that kids require. i dont think there is anything wrong with it and i also dont think we are put here on earth just to have kids. i am here to have fun and enjoy my life as much as i can!!

[bretonbanquet]

I'm definitely not saying we're put on here to have kids - I don't have any btw. But certainly I think it's nice to contribute to the world you live in, in some way at least. I suspect that it helps when you're reaching the end. That said, everyone has the right to live as they choose.

[ButterCookie]

I think about this a lot and in a lot of depth. I've got notes about my will strewn in notebooks everywhere (call me morbid) I intend to leave money and hopefully wisdom to my younger sister and her children (if she chooses to have them) and various charities.

[HomerMcvie]

Why do they gravitate towards you when you can't abide them? It bugs the hell out of me!

Haha. I was in the BMV, a couple of days ago, and this white trash Mom, was letting her kids run wild, and her 3yo boy just kept coming towards me! I kept OBVIOUSLY putting myself farther and farther from him....I wanted to tell her, "if that little sh*t knocks me in the balls, I'm gonna slap the sh*t out of YOU".:mad:

[KarmaContestant]

I like kids, mostly. I'd never, ever want any of my own.

My favorite thing about kids are their voices around the age of 3-5. So cute!

[Sleepless-Child]

I'm shocked by some comments here.
There's NOTHING more stupid than talking about kids in general.
Keep in mind that having a child and liking kids is a total different thing.
I don't know how to make myself clear so i hope someone who can write properly in english will come and save this thread from stupidity.

I'm sorry, but i had to say it.

[fringed n fab]

I'm no baby lover - never even held one - but I'm quite surprised at the level of distaste for kids on here. And the love of money is a bit surprising too - sure, it sucks to be poor - but what vital s**t are you dudes spending your money on that would be so jeopardised by having kids around? ButterCookie is right when she says there's no sense in selfish people having kids only to make them miserable - that's true - but equally it's not really anything to be proud of in the real world. In most social situations, comments like some on this thread would result in people making excuses and quietly edging away from you.

Some might say that if you don't leave anyone behind when you go, and you spend your whole life devoting all your time and money to yourself, what was the point in being here?

I don't hate kids and yes parents give up some little things in life but gain something extraordinary when raising kids in the end I think. And that's what matters, not all the Friday nights you gave up. I don't have kids but am surrounded by nieces and nephews who adore me and think the world of me and that's fulfilling enough for me to know in some way I'll leave something behind when I go by the people who loved me if I do go through life never having a kid. Every one of us needs to leave some kind of legacy behind be it through loving friends and family and people we knew. I don't think it'll come through houses and clothes and all the cars we bought ourselves while here, that stuff fades and is immaterial. I don't think you have to have kids in this life to leave a lasting legacy, but leave something behind through people that's everlasting and what matters. I don't think anyone of us childless people want to be just a face in the family photo books when we're gone. :(


Hey Monalisa, who was Leonardo?
Was he Andy Warhol?
Were you Marilyn Monroe
Hey Mozart, what kind of name is Amadeus
It's kinda like Elvis
You gotta die to be famous
I may not go down in history
I just want someone to remember me

I'll probably never hold a brush
that paints a masterpiece
Probably never find a pen
that writes a symphony
But if I will love then I will find
That I have touched another life
And that's something
Something worth leaving behind

[Fleetwoodmark]

I'm shocked by some comments here.
There's NOTHING more stupid than talking about kids in general.
Keep in mind that having a child and liking kids is a total different thing.
I don't know how to make myself clear so i hope someone who can write properly in english will come and save this thread from stupidity.

I'm sorry, but i had to say it.

I totally agree and have tried, see my previous posts.

[kak125]

i cant figure out why people get all mad about us all talking about kids and not wanting them or even not liking them. its our opinion and i think its ok for us all to have our own opinions about the issue.

[Sleepless-Child]

I totally agree and have tried, see my previous posts.

Thank you. :). Some humanity here.

i cant figure out why people get all mad about us all talking about kids and not wanting them or even not liking them. its our opinion and i think its ok for us all to have our own opinions about the issue.

I have nothing against the fact that you, for example, don't want children. But tell me the only reason isn't that "you don't like kids". Just tell me that and i'll calm down :).

[HomerMcvie]

i cant figure out why people get all mad about us all talking about kids and not wanting them or even not liking them. its our opinion and i think its ok for us all to have our own opinions about the issue.

BINGO!!!!
People, stop being so fukcing sensitive. We're only saying how we feel. If you don't like it, don't read this thread.

Maybe we should start two new threads. One for religion, and one for abortion....
Now THOSE would be fun!!!:lol:
Because I get the feeling, that 85% of us, are probably agnostic/atheist, and pro-abortion.
So the other 15%, can just freak the fukc out, over our opinions!
Fun, fun, fun!

[kak125]

Thank you. :). Some humanity here.



I have nothing against the fact that you, for example, don't want children. But tell me the only reason isn't that "you don't like kids". Just tell me that and i'll calm down :).

lets see i am selfish and i like my free time and i also dont want to bring a kid into this awful world. there is so many bad things going on these days that it would be too much stress in my life to constantly worry about them. i am such a worrier that i have to have my life as stress free as possible if that makes any sense. i would worry about bullying and then worrying about them doing well in school and college tuition etc. its just too much for me and i dont want to bother with that stuff. i honestly am not a kid person either. i like my nieces but and my friends little boy but thats about it. most other kids seem to be so bad and their parents let them do whatever they want and it drives me nuts.
i am a huge animal lover though ;)

[jannieC]

I'm not sure what difference <i>why</i> someone doesn't want kids makes. Some people really are repelled by kids; everyone has their own reasons. What difference does it make?

Also want to add that I never bring my toddler into other people's homes. Nor do I bring her to most restaurants. I am trying to work on her "out in public" skills and don't want to ruin anyone else's dinner with her toddler-ness.

My director had a cook out last summer and I mistakenly brought Laney. Most people were inside because it was unbearably hot; I spent the entire evening stooped over, chasing after the child. My director has traveled the world and her house was filled with priceless artifacts. I thought I would DIE.

[KarmaContestant]

I'm shocked by some comments here.
There's NOTHING more stupid than talking about kids in general.
Keep in mind that having a child and liking kids is a total different thing.
I don't know how to make myself clear so i hope someone who can write properly in english will come and save this thread from stupidity.

I'm sorry, but i had to say it.

I totally agree and have tried, see my previous posts.

Life is a journey; a lesson if you will, where each person has the wonderful opportunity to experience the various things our world has to offer. For some people, children enhance that experience. For others, children interfere with that experience (although one can always make the argument that people without kids don't know what they are missing - but that works both ways as well).

I'd agree it's odd when someone says "I don't like children." but I think this statement is spoken out of context. I'd venture that most people who say they don't like kids really mean to say that they don't have the desire to raise children of their own. It's a mistake I've made, too. A true dislike for kids is, in the end, kind of creepy.

[HomerMcvie]

Also want to add that I never bring my toddler into other people's homes. Nor do I bring her to most restaurants. I am trying to work on her "out in public" skills and don't want to ruin anyone else's dinner with her toddler-ness.



If only more people were like you! My biggest peeve, is the people who let their kids scream repeatedly, at the top of their lungs, in a store or restaurant.

[Sleepless-Child]

Life is a journey; a lesson if you will, where each person has the wonderful opportunity to experience the various things our world has to offer. For some people, children enhance that experience. For others, children interfere with that experience (although one can always make the argument that people without kids don't know what they are missing - but that works both ways as well).

I'd agree it's odd when someone says "I don't like children." but I think this statement is spoken out of context. I'd venture that most people who say they don't like kids really mean to say that they don't have the desire to raise children of thier own. It's a mistake I've made, too. A true dislike for kids is, in the end, kind of creepy.

And that's "BINGO!!" too.
:thumbsup:

[Sleepless-Child]

BINGO!!!!
People, stop being so fukcing sensitive. We're only saying how we feel. If you don't like it, don't read this thread.

Maybe we should start two new threads. One for religion, and one for abortion....
Now THOSE would be fun!!!:lol:
Because I get the feeling, that 85% of us, are probably agnostic/atheist, and pro-abortion.
So the other 15%, can just freak the fukc out, over our opinions!
Fun, fun, fun!

Yeah, cause a thread about religion with atheits only would be totally interesting. Let's just laugh at people who don't think like you. Is that being open-minded ?

Anyway, i'm not sensitive on that subject at all, i just don't like stupidity. And call it whatever you want, but i think that saying "i don't like kids" is freaking stupid.

[bluefox4000]

Wow the sensitivity. It's a thread for people who don't want kids. We're not saying boil children:lol:

just....wow

Mick

[HomerMcvie]

Yeah, cause a thread about religion with atheits only would be totally interesting. Let's just laugh at people who don't think like you. Is that being open-minded ?

Anyway, i'm not sensitive on that subject at all, i just don't like stupidity. And call it whatever you want, but i think that saying "i don't like kids" is freaking stupid.

I don't like badly behaved kids.

Opinions....hmm, they're like what?:lol:

[Sleepless-Child]

I don't like badly behaved kids.

Opinions....hmm, they're like what?:lol:

Me neither :). But that's a completely different thing.
I'm moving on, since what i say seems more funny than relevant/interesting.

[markolas]

I haven't abandoned the thread...my laptop is on the fritz.

In the grocery store, I regularly hear the high-pitched shrieks of some kid...now, I may not mind it so much if the kid's mother (it's usually the mother) didn't completely ignore it. My own parents would not have tolerated that from me at all.

But kids in grocery stores, department stores, "family-style" restaurants, etc., don't bother me. It's when people bring their kids into places where the kids have no business being - clearly adult restaurants (The Melting Pot, e.g.), bookstores (not all kids, but ones under 5 years old, certainly), coffee shops, bars, etc. It reminds me of this phenomenon of bringing your dog everywhere you go. Dogs don't belong in a restaurant or Lowe's (service dogs, yes, but I've seen people bring their shih tzus in there - there's no way that's a service dog). And I would never dream of bringing a pet to someone's house when I go visit, yet some people think nothing of that, either.

[Silver Springs]

I don't understand how in one breath somebody could be advocating the right to free speach and erring of thoughts, yet in the next dismissing somebody's beliefs as distasteful and - to put it bluntly- wrong. Yes. I don't like children. That to me isn't distasteful. Especially considering my desire not to have them. It's an admittance that, while my childhood was less than favourable, I'd rather not be the kind of parent who inflicted that kind of childhood. Surely it's more distasteful to realise how selfish and self oriented you are, yet still desire to have children in order to fulfil some kind of bull**** destiny other people believe you should have? Life is meant to be lived at its utmost of activity and happiness. To me, happiness does not constitute children. I have nothing against anybody who would love nothing more than to be a parent. They're just wired that way and they have the love and time to give. Not everybody is designed to nurture.

[ButterCookie]

Dogs don't belong in a restaurant or Lowe's (service dogs, yes, but I've seen people bring their shih tzus in there - there's no way that's a service dog). And I would never dream of bringing a pet to someone's house when I go visit, yet some people think nothing of that, either.

Hey, my Shih Tzu serves me very well as a foot warmer :p

[markolas]

The reason I don't want kids doesn't have anything to do with money. It has to do with the fact that I don't want the responsibility (I only water the houseplants when they start looking a little droopy; at least CPS won't come after me if I let them wilt). And no, I don't especially like children. I'm not mean to them, I just don't pay particular attention to them if they happen to be around (which isn't often - nearly all of my friends have historically been other gay men and my bf's siblings don't have kids - I don't know anyone who has children).

As for "the point of being here"....that really is a discussion for another thread, but I don't think it has anything to do with "leaving things/children behind."

[jannieC]

I still can't figure out what's so awful about someone not liking children. It doesn't make someone a serial killer!

[Silver Springs]

I still can't figure out what's so awful about someone not liking children. It doesn't make someone a serial killer!

Exactly. I don't like severely right wing people. Yet that doesn't mean I'm going to go out there and kill them. There's a difference between dislike and bloodlust.

[Sleepless-Child]

:laugh:, this is going way too far. Never said it was awful-just stupid. And never treated you like a serial killer.
I just don't like age categories. We are all people, and should all be treated like that, individually. I find it extremely weird to say "i don't like kids", that's all. (Just as stupid as saying "i don't like old people"- i heard it a lot through my life, and still don't get that).
And not liking kids should not be the reason why you don't want them, since having a child is a total different thing. Your child is a person you need to raise, so I get the responsability and selfishness thing, cause that's a real reason.

[KarmaContestant]

It's all in the context - You may say "I don't like children" and one person might interpret it as "They think kids are weird and dirty." whereas another person might interpret it as "Wow, they have an aversion to the young of their own species - that's weird and unnatural."

It's just context, and we all know it's easy to misinterpret someone's tone and intent on the internet - I'm sure it's happened to all of us at one time or another.

[Silver Springs]

:laugh:, this is going way too far. Never said it was awful-just stupid. And never treated you like a serial killer.
I just don't like age categories. We are all people, and should all be treated like that, individually. I find it extremely weird to say "i don't like kids", that's all. (Just as stupid as saying "i don't like old people"- i heard it a lot through my life, and still don't get that).
And not liking kids should not be the reason why you don't want them, since having a child is a total different thing. Your child is a person you need to raise, so I get the responsability and selfishness thing, cause that's a real reason.

Just because it isn't your opinion does NOT make it a stupid opinion. Going on the highlighted premise, would it be acceptible to have a child you didn't like?

[Sleepless-Child]

Just because it isn't your opinion does NOT make it a stupid opinion. Going on the highlighted premise, would it be acceptible to have a child you didn't like?

I think i don't really get your question.
It's quite disturbing. Is it possible not to like our child ? (is that what you mean? I'm sorry, i just don't get your point).

Yes, i know i shouldn't say it's stupid. But don't you think the opinions of those severely right winged people are stupid ? It's just me expressing my opinion on your opinion...maybe a bit too much.

[Silver Springs]

I think i don't really get your question.
It's quite disturbing. Is it possible not to like our child ? (is that what you mean? I'm sorry, i just don't get your point).

Yes, i know i shouldn't say it's stupid. But don't you think the opinions of those severely right winged people are stupid ? It's just me expressing my opinion on your opinion...maybe a bit too much.

You completely missed my question. Never mind.

Opinions are intensely personal things. They shouldn't be judged at all. Not unless they impinge on another's personal freedoms or common decency. Which of these exactly is a dislike of children impinging on?

[Sleepless-Child]

You completely missed my question. Never mind.

Opinions are intensely personal things. They shouldn't be judged at all. Not unless they impinge on another's personal freedoms or common decency. Which of these exactly is a dislike of children impinging on?

Well, i'm sorry. My level of english is kind of mediocre. My level of comprehension too apparently.

Common decency? :o, okay, whatever, i'm sorry if i was too harsh. I should have only said what i was thinking and not judging your opinion, though now you know how i feel about it :D. We all have opinions on opinions, but you're right, we should keep it for ourselves.

[Silver Springs]

Well, i'm sorry. My level of english is kind of mediocre. My level of comprehension too apparently.

Common decency? :o, okay, whatever, i'm sorry if i was too harsh. I should have only said what i was thinking and not judging your opinion, though now you know how i feel about it :D. We all have opinions on opinions, but you're right, we should keep it for ourselves.

Not that we should keep them to ourselves. If we didn't share our opinions we would have nothing to say. It's just a matter of not dismissing opinions that don't gel with out own. That's all.

I like to believe this thread taught us all a little lesson :)

[HomerMcvie]

I like to believe this thread taught us all a little lesson

Yeah, that many of us don't like little ones!:lol:

[Sleepless-Child]

Not that we should keep them to ourselves. If we didn't share our opinions we would have nothing to say. It's just a matter of not dismissing opinions that don't gel with out own. That's all.

I like to believe this thread taught us all a little lesson :)

Just keep quiet how we feel about an other person's opinion.
It might have taught us something, but i've not changed my mind (just so you know :D). Still, i'll try to be more diplomatic next time.

Yeah, that many of us don't like little ones!:lol:

I hate that i laughed!

[HomerMcvie]

I hate that i laughed!

I love that you laughed.

I'll be here all week.

Try the veal!

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

[Sleepless-Child]

I love that you laughed.

I'll be here all week.

Try the veal!

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

:laugh:, you love fighting, don't you ? You're certainly good at it. Smiling and laughing when people are getting angry is a cruel thing to do! :)

[HomerMcvie]

:laugh:, you love fighting, don't you ? You're certainly good at it. Smiling and laughing when people are getting angry is a cruel thing to do! :)

I have a serious sense of humor. I find humor, and light heartedness, in almost every aspect of life.
Words RARELY upset me. They're just words.

I love life, and I love people. I also sometimes love watching people who have little control over their emotions(not saying you), go Postal, online. :lol:

Because I'm always in charge, and always in control.

Life, is exactly what you make of it.:woohoo:

Your mileage may vary...:lol:

[Sleepless-Child]

I have a serious sense of humor. I find humor, and light heartedness, in almost every aspect of life.
Words RARELY upset me. They're just words.

I love life, and I love people. I also sometimes love watching people who have little control over their emotions(not saying you), go Postal, online. :lol:

Because I'm always in charge, and always in control.

Life, is exactly what you make of it.:woohoo:

Your mileage may vary...:lol:

Oh yes, you're saying me, but that's fine. I'm a bit young, and have to work on my control abilities, that might be the last stage to maturity (i hope). Not saying that you're old though :D.
You do have a great sense of humor, which is sometimes irritating for people like me (when fighthing!), but really, it's refreshing, and you probably really enjoy your life, and that's totally great :thumbsup:.

[HomerMcvie]

Oh yes, you're saying me, but that's fine. I'm a bit young, and have to work on my control abilities, that might be the last stage to maturity (i hope). Not saying that you're old though :D.
You do have a great sense of humor, which is sometimes irritating for people like me (when fighthing!), but really, it's refreshing, and you probably really enjoy your life, and that's totally great :thumbsup:.

I didn't necessarily mean you...it's not like you're the only one who gets upset. I did wonder about your age, though. It does seem like levelheadedness comes with age. Although certainly not for everyone!:lol:

I actually find it funny, that I don't get upset by words. I think I've just disagreed, internally, with so many opinions, over the years, that I just don't give a fukc.:lol:
I mean, I'm right, and who cares what they think!:angel:

Life's too short, to spend it being angry.:wavey:

[Sleepless-Child]

I didn't necessarily mean you...it's not like you're the only one who gets upset. I did wonder about your age, though. It does seem like levelheadedness comes with age. Although certainly not for everyone!:lol:

I actually find it funny, that I don't get upset by words. I think I've just disagreed, internally, with so many opinions, over the years, that I just don't give a fukc.:lol:
I mean, I'm right, and who cares what they think!:angel:

Life's too short, to spend it being angry.:wavey:

:laugh:, i agree, but i have to work on the "who cares what they think"-part. Cause i already know i'm right :P.
That's a great philosophy, really. I don't think i'll ever be able to deal with those control issues, because i've always been a bit touchy, but i do hope i'll learn to enjoy debating without getting angry, and to laugh about all of this like you do.

I really learned a little lesson here :). Thank you, and goodnight!

[HomerMcvie]

:laugh:, i agree, but i have to work on the "who cares what they think"-part. Cause i already know i'm right :P.
That's a great philosophy, really. I don't think i'll ever be able to deal with those control issues, because i've always been a bit touchy, but i do hope i'll learn to enjoy debating without getting angry, and to laugh about all of this like you do.

I really learned a little lesson here :). Thank you, and goodnight!
You too!:xoxo:

[vivfox]

I forgot to mention another thing that drives me crazy is the crying baby who always is in the seat behind me on the airplane or in the restaurant.

[McTrouble]

Just looking over this thread makes me depressed - I've never seen such a collection of selfishness and self centered out pourings -

You don't want kids because you don't want to deviate any of your money away from yourself ?

That's probably the most distasteful thing I've heard in a long time !

It may be selfish and self-centred but what's wrong with that? Surely it would be worse to bring unwanted children into the world just because it conforms to the "norm"?

Any why have kids when you haven't a maternal or paternal bone in your body? I, personally, am not made of stone - I am a great lover of animals and can go really mushy over dogs and cats, and animal cruelty breaks my heart the same as child cruelty breaks other people's hearts (mind you, I don't tolerate child cruelty either).

Different strokes for different folks, is all.

[McTrouble]

I'm 49 now. When I was 15 I said I was never going to get married and never going to have kids. My family was convinced I was gonna be the one to have the most kids.

I never got married and I never had kids. For a few minutes in my late 30's I wished I had kids but that was because I was lonely and thought they would fill that void.

With pride I can state that I have never changed a diaper in my life.:thumbsup: Kids annoy me. Keep them away from me. Please don't toss your kid on the phone when I've called to talk to YOU. Nothing annoys me more than to have to talk baby talk to a toddler.

A good friend recently had a baby and keeps badgering me to come over and see it. I don't give a fu&k about newborns. It only means I have to spend money on a gift. Plus she lives on the 4th floor of an apt. building with no elevator and Viv does not want to climb those stairs!

Like others have mentioned, I too am selfish with my time and money. I love my nieces and nephews but was always happy to send them back to their parents when they annoyed me.

I used to babysit my young cousins back in the early 1980's and these two girls always pissed me off. They recently reminded me that in order to chase them out of the room I would loudly sing songs by Stevie Nicks and they would repulsively run upstairs to avoid my horrible singing.

I have a policy that no one is aloud to bring their kids into my home if they are 3 years old or younger. They touch things and break things. Not cool.

And lastly(I really don't mean to offend any Ledgie) I don't like feeling obligated to say, "congratulations, you are having a baby!" But I have said this in the past and unfortunately will have to say this in the future again and again.

Rant over.

Good God - are we twins?

You're a Viv, I'm a Viv.

You're 49, I'm 49.

Kids annoy you, kids annoy me.

I love my nieces and nephews but am happy to give them back.

I don't allow kids in my house (I can just about tolerate them on their own territory).

And I can rant for England about the little s***heads over the garden fence - I f***ing detest them!

:thumbsup:

[McTrouble]

Wow the sensitivity. It's a thread for people who don't want kids. We're not saying boil children:lol:

just....wow

Mick

Mmmm, well.........

[McTrouble]

I forgot to mention another thing that drives me crazy is the crying baby who always is in the seat behind me on the airplane or in the restaurant.

Or the kid who's about 6 or 7 who KICKS the back of your seat on the plane for 12 whole hours and the parents think you're the one being unreasonable!!!:shrug:

[vivfox]

Or the kid who's about 6 or 7 who KICKS the back of your seat on the plane for 12 whole hours and the parents think you're the one being unreasonable!!!:shrug:


Yes! Yes! My fine twin, yes!!

[michelle2677]

Just looking over this thread makes me depressed - I've never seen such a collection of selfishness and self centered out pourings - You don't want kids because you don't want to deviate any of your money away from yourself ?

That's probably the most distasteful thing I've heard in a long time !

i don't understand what is so wrong and distasteful. when i was younger i didn't want kids just because i didn't want to have to lose any sleep :lol: everyone has different priorities, and i really don't think someone not having children is going to greatly interfere with your life so what difference does it make?


Thank you. :). Some humanity here.



I have nothing against the fact that you, for example, don't want children. But tell me the only reason isn't that "you don't like kids". Just tell me that and i'll calm down :).

why? why should someone who doesn't like kids...have kids? that sounds kind of stupid to me. i don't like kids because i don't like drool, vomit, backtalking, poopy diapers, chocolatey fingers on walls, constant breakage of expensive items, childproofing.... i could go on and on, but i have 12 other quotes to tend to. i'm sure things will be different when i have my own. i have a dog and i gladly take care of those things (even the backtalking) and think nothing of it. when he's up in the middle of the night throwing up, i'm up cleaing it and making sure he's ok. i would be that way with my child, too, at least i hope :laugh: "aw hell, kid, clean your **** up, i'm going back to sleep"

I'm not sure what difference <i>why</i> someone doesn't want kids makes. Some people really are repelled by kids; everyone has their own reasons. What difference does it make?
Also want to add that I never bring my toddler into other people's homes. Nor do I bring her to most restaurants. I am trying to work on her "out in public" skills and don't want to ruin anyone else's dinner with her toddler-ness.

My director had a cook out last summer and I mistakenly brought Laney. Most people were inside because it was unbearably hot; I spent the entire evening stooped over, chasing after the child. My director has traveled the world and her house was filled with priceless artifacts. I thought I would DIE.

THANK YOU!

oh, and one thing that burns my a$$ is when people bring their demon hood rats on wheels to my highly breakable house and complain because it's not "baby proof". i always say "uh no ****, sherlock...i don't have kids. remember?"

Life is a journey; a lesson if you will, where each person has the wonderful opportunity to experience the various things our world has to offer. For some people, children enhance that experience. For others, children interfere with that experience (although one can always make the argument that people without kids don't know what they are missing - but that works both ways as well).

I'd agree it's odd when someone says "I don't like children." but I think this statement is spoken out of context. I'd venture that most people who say they don't like kids really mean to say that they don't have the desire to raise children of their own. It's a mistake I've made, too. A true dislike for kids is, in the end, kind of creepy.

the top part. yes. thank you. perfect. the second part-no, i really don't like kids. other people's that is. i can't say how i'll feel about my own because i don't have any. but i do love the hell out of my dog. does that count?

[HomerMcvie]

but i do love the hell out of my dog. does that count?

Parents always used to get so mad at me, because I'd compare Cash(my now deceased dog, to you newbies) to their child.
(thinking) "Oh I'm sorry, my dog is much better, than your brat!"
I'd take a good dog, over a brat kid, any day of the week!:wavey:

[louielouie2000]

What I don't get is why people feel they have a right to get upset with other people regarding their life decisions... such as if they do or do not want to have children. Or whether to get married or not. Or to be a part of organized religion or not. All of these things are intensely personal, private matters. Why do other people (oftentimes strangers) feel they have a right to judge someone else's personal, private decisions? :confused: If you want kids, great. If you don't want kids, great. If you want to get married to your significant other, fantastic. If you want to live in "sin" :p then pull up a chair! Bottom line... who CARES? :shrug:

[markolas]

What I don't get is why people feel they have a right to get upset with other people regarding their life decisions...

Because they need to be validated by other people's choices. A lot of times, people feel like they're being judged simply because you've made a different choice (the choice to have/not have kids, to start or quit smoking, to start or stop being religious, etc.).

I used to be a tee-totaler. I had a friend who was absolutely driven up the wall by this. I didn't make a big deal about it, I just...didn't drink. He would harass me about it every chance he got: "Why don't you drink?" "It's weird that you don't drink." "You should have a drink." He felt like I was judging him by my not drinking, and he needed for me to validate his choice to drink by drinking myself.

Same thing with the kids thing. Having kids is something "everybody does" in most people's estimation. By not following the "life script" people think you're making a value judgment against them for following it.

[McTrouble]

Parents always used to get so mad at me, because I'd compare Cash(my now deceased dog, to you newbies) to their child.
(thinking) "Oh I'm sorry, my dog is much better, than your brat!"
I'd take a good dog, over a brat kid, any day of the week!:wavey:

Me too - you get all that love and affection without the backchat and the stress and the sh***y nappies (diapers).

OK, you have to take care of the doggydoos but that's a doddle compared to a baby's poopies - how does something so small produce the substance from Hell?

[McTrouble]

BINGO!!!!
People, stop being so fukcing sensitive. We're only saying how we feel. If you don't like it, don't read this thread.

Maybe we should start two new threads. One for religion, and one for abortion....
Now THOSE would be fun!!!:lol:
Because I get the feeling, that 85% of us, are probably agnostic/atheist, and pro-abortion.
So the other 15%, can just freak the fukc out, over our opinions!
Fun, fun, fun!

Threads for abortion and religion - are you trying to start Ledge War One? Why not go the whole hog and do politics as well? :laugh:

[HomerMcvie]

Threads for abortion and religion - are you trying to start Ledge War One? Why not go the whole hog and do politics as well? :laugh:

Because I avoid politics, at ALL costs!:p
I don't care, about religion or abortion! Non issues, for me! :D

[ButterCookie]

Parents always used to get so mad at me, because I'd compare Cash(my now deceased dog, to you newbies) to their child.
(thinking) "Oh I'm sorry, my dog is much better, than your brat!"
I'd take a good dog, over a brat kid, any day of the week!:wavey:

I compare Max to babies. A good friend has acquaintances who are having kids left right and centre (LITERALLY) and she's forever showing me photos from photoshoots that she's done with them or even worse, pregnant mothers. I have a legit phobia of pregnancy and birth. It's horrible. Anyway, said friend is constantly showing me these photos and telling me what she'd call her baby and I'm the one going "but you have Hendrix! and Pippa and George! Surely a dog and two cats is enough to care for?" because I know I'll be expected to go see hers if and when she has one and probably go to the christening/baby shower/first poop everything.

I'd probably take a bad dog (oh wait, I have one... cheers for that his previous owners!) over a good child. I'm good at taking care of things like fish, house plants, dogs, cats, rabbits etc I just don't have the right amount of patience to keep a child happy and feeling fully cared for, Max goes to sleep when we've been for a walk down to the record shop. That suits me fine. He smells sweet when he sleeps and more importantly, he's not waking up every hour to have his butt wiped :lol: Like Michelle said, I've been up with him just because he's upset or if he's being sick and I let him sleep IN my bed when he's not well. I'm not made of stone, I just feel happier around animals as opposed to people (of any age).

[McTrouble]

I compare Max to babies. A good friend has acquaintances who are having kids left right and centre (LITERALLY) and she's forever showing me photos from photoshoots that she's done with them or even worse, pregnant mothers. I have a legit phobia of pregnancy and birth. It's horrible. Anyway, said friend is constantly showing me these photos and telling me what she'd call her baby and I'm the one going "but you have Hendrix! and Pippa and George! Surely a dog and two cats is enough to care for?" because I know I'll be expected to go see hers if and when she has one and probably go to the christening/baby shower/first poop everything.

I'd probably take a bad dog (oh wait, I have one... cheers for that his previous owners!) over a good child. I'm good at taking care of things like fish, house plants, dogs, cats, rabbits etc I just don't have the right amount of patience to keep a child happy and feeling fully cared for, Max goes to sleep when we've been for a walk down to the record shop. That suits me fine. He smells sweet when he sleeps and more importantly, he's not waking up every hour to have his butt wiped :lol: Like Michelle said, I've been up with him just because he's upset or if he's being sick and I let him sleep IN my bed when he's not well. I'm not made of stone, I just feel happier around animals as opposed to people (of any age).

aaah bless - Max sounds like he is so well loved and cared for, that makes my heart melt :xoxo:

[kak125]

What I don't get is why people feel they have a right to get upset with other people regarding their life decisions... such as if they do or do not want to have children. Or whether to get married or not. Or to be a part of organized religion or not. All of these things are intensely personal, private matters. Why do other people (oftentimes strangers) feel they have a right to judge someone else's personal, private decisions? :confused: If you want kids, great. If you don't want kids, great. If you want to get married to your significant other, fantastic. If you want to live in "sin" :p then pull up a chair! Bottom line... who CARES? :shrug:

AMEN!!!!!!!!!

[skcin]

Pretend for the moment that you want to adopt a child. Do the research and report back to everyone how easy it is to adopt! I'm saying this with a smile, not a scowl- I just don't think many realize what it takes to adopt.

Easier said then done. :nod:

As an adopted child, I agree completely. Wanna know something sh*tty.....after my Mom passed, my aunt said to me, "I hope you know that you're still welcome, at all of our get togethers".
While that could be taken nicely, am I the only one, who sees the implication, that "you really weren't hers, so you're really not one of us, but we still want to see you, anyway"?
I thought it was a sh*tty thing to say. I mean, I was adopted at birth....it's not like I didn't come along until I was 15, or something.... Bitch!

Wow. How kind of her not to disown you after your mom died. :shocked:

I know it is a time-consuming, expensive proposition. But so is childbirth! My hats off to you for making the effort and giving someone needy a loving home and family.

Having a kid: 9 months, very little expense (most covered by insurance or Medicaid)
Adoption: years of waiting, $10,000 MINIMUM up front.

To be clear, I think adoption is a great option for people who have the means to do it. It's just that not everyone does. :shrug: it's not as easy as saying "just go & adopt!"

Yeah...I'm not one of those people who goes around calling them crotch-droppings, but I don't especially care for kids. I don't think babies are cute - they are noisy and smelly, and no I don't want to hold it or hear incessant FB posts about it, or see pics of their scraped knees or their first booger or whatever. I mean, please.

Some babies are cute, but not all. :shocked: Some are breathtaking...

Parents who feel the need to publicise and promote every breath that their children take are just that kind of people. It's not an issue with everyone who has kids, it's just what some people are like. If they weren't pushing pictures of their kids' scraped knees at you, they'd be pushing something else at you - while other parents don't feel that need. It's hardly a rational reason to bash parents in general. It's the same as a minority of gay people who feel they have to remind you on a regular basis that they're gay, or people who can't seem to stop alluding to the fact that they're wealthy. It's just personality types, attention-seekers. If they p**s you off, ignore them, as someone said :shrug:

Good points.

I have a friend (former co-worker) who does this. She and her partner both document every move their child makes on FB and they also have a blog. About their child. While I find it kind of interestingly annoying, I haven't hidden their statuses yet. I think I'm somewhat intrigued by them, actually.

First potty moment aside, I rarely update stuff on my daughter. I post pictures if I take cute ones and that's about it. Just because *I* think she's fascinatingly cute, doesn't mean everyone else does.

I couldn't agree more. And that kid blog? Good luck trying to teach that kis that it's NOT all about her, when it's apparent it actually is.

It depends on what day of the week you catch me.

Generally I think I don't want kids, ever. Maybe once or twice a month I wish I was a father. My wife says she wants kids... but no plans on having them. :shrug:


How long do you think you can keep that up? :lol:

This.

A day doesn't go by without a c0-worker, a family member, or someone in one of my college classes asking me why I don't have kids. 26 is looked at as a dried up old maid, I guess. My biological clock can keep on tick, tick, ticking. I don't want a little demon spawn.

I was told by a coworker at age 24 that my eggs were drying up. She was only half kidding. Then she got pregnant at age 33 so I told her to stfu. I heard "when are you gonna have kids" at least 5 times a week from various people in my life starting at age 22 or so, up until I shocked them all with my pregnancy at age 32. Seriously. None of anyone's business, and nothing wrong with the answer "never!"

Just looking over this thread makes me depressed - I've never seen such a collection of selfishness and self centered out pourings - You don't want kids because you don't want to deviate any of your money away from yourself ?

That's probably the most distasteful thing I've heard in a long time !

But honest. Kids are expensive. Gone are the days where people had 4 or 5 kids just because. It's damn near impossible to afford to do that anymore, and kudos to people who've actually put thought into it & decided not to due to financial reasons. It's none of my business what people want to spend their money on.

BINGO!!!!
People, stop being so fukcing sensitive. We're only saying how we feel. If you don't like it, don't read this thread.

Maybe we should start two new threads. One for religion, and one for abortion....
Now THOSE would be fun!!!
Because I get the feeling, that 85% of us, are probably agnostic/atheist, and pro-abortion.
So the other 15%, can just freak the fukc out, over our opinions!
Fun, fun, fun!

1) 85% agnostic/athiest? I think you're way high on that. We had a thread about that long ago, wonder if it can be dug up.
2) Who the hell is pro-abortion? :rolleyes: Seriously.

If only more people were like you! My biggest peeve, is the people who let their kids scream repeatedly, at the top of their lungs, in a store or restaurant.

Like, "let" a 7 year old scream? Or "let" a 2 year old scream? Just curious. Cuz there's a big difference & it's damn near impossible to stop a 2 year old from screaming. I would take my kid & leave, but not everyone could/would/should.

Wow the sensitivity. It's a thread for people who don't want kids. We're not saying boil children

just....wow

Mick

Well, do you? :mad:

:wavey:



I am a firm believer that not everyone is meant to have kids. I sure as hell wasn't sure I wanted any (used to say never, but...) Took my husband & I 15 years of togetherness, and being in our mid-30's to decide to have one. She's pretty great, and I know we're very lucky (easy sleeper, well-behaved, good looking like her daddy, healthy, etc.).

I can tell you that there is NO WAY I would have been a good mother 10 years ago - less maturity, less patience, different priorities. Soooo glad we waited. So if you aren't sure, DON'T DO IT. Seriously. You'll be miserable. And DON'T have one just because you think you'll be too old soon!

1 more thing. "I want to have a baby" is not the same thing as "I want to have a child & raise him/her to be a responsible, good & decent person who can help shape our future." Cuz you're in it for the looooooooong haul. So you'd better be goddamn ready to work hard at raising a child every day for the next 18+ years.

[CastleWalls]

I am a firm believer that not everyone is meant to have kids. I sure as hell wasn't sure I wanted any (used to say never, but...) Took my husband & I 15 years of togetherness, and being in our mid-30's to decide to have one. She's pretty great, and I know we're very lucky (easy sleeper, well-behaved, good looking like her daddy, healthy, etc.).

I can tell you that there is NO WAY I would have been a good mother 10 years ago - less maturity, less patience, different priorities. Soooo glad we waited. So if you aren't sure, DON'T DO IT. Seriously. You'll be miserable. And DON'T have one just because you think you'll be too old soon!

1 more thing. "I want to have a baby" is not the same thing as "I want to have a child & raise him/her to be a responsible, good & decent person who can help shape our future." Cuz you're in it for the looooooooong haul. So you'd better be goddamn ready to work hard at raising a child every day for the next 18+ years.

I am stunned. I never saw you having a kid. LOL. I am floored. :)

[skcin]

I am stunned. I never saw you having a kid. LOL. I am floored. :)

Do I know you? :laugh:


Either way, you're not alone. Most people (both friends are mere acquaintances) would have agreed with you. ****, I would have agreed with you! But things do change for some people, and they did for me. I am so happy with my life & my family, and I do love being a mom.

But I'm a realist too - it's really f*cking hard at times (and she's only 18 months - I know it's not going to get easier...) It's not always wonderful & joyous. Sometimes it sucks, and while I never, ever regret having her, I do occasionally think "man, this would be a hell of a lot simpler without a kid!" You don't have to give up your life or youself (like some people claim you do), BUT her needs do have to come first in most cases. :shrug: At least for the time being.

[Fleetwoodmark]

What I don't get is why people feel they have a right to get upset with other people regarding their life decisions... such as if they do or do not want to have children. Or whether to get married or not. Or to be a part of organized religion or not. All of these things are intensely personal, private matters. Why do other people (oftentimes strangers) feel they have a right to judge someone else's personal, private decisions? :confused: If you want kids, great. If you don't want kids, great. If you want to get married to your significant other, fantastic. If you want to live in "sin" :p then pull up a chair! Bottom line... who CARES? :shrug:

No one is making a comment on their life decisions - if people don't want kids...that's fine. It's the self obsessed selfishness that is clear for all to see that I have an issue with.

[bluefox4000]

Yes.....we want our lives to ourselves.....So what:shrug: Also so what if we like to save our cash. There are FAR worse things then not having a kid. I mean...come on. I hardly think this is that selfish. Maybe i'm missing something. lol

Mick

[kak125]

Yes.....we want our lives to ourselves.....So what:shrug: Also so what if we like to save our cash. There are FAR worse things then not having a kid. I mean...come on. I hardly think this is that selfish. Maybe i'm missing something. lol

Mick

i so agree with you!! its our lives and if we dont want kids and we want to spend all of our own hard earned money on ourselves then who cares?!! i work for it so if i want to spend it, i am gonna spend it. i am selfish and i will admit it but i dont see it as a bad thing at all. i love being married and i love spending all my time with my hubby. i dont want anything to come between that. i like it just being me and him and i love love love my free time.

[Silver Springs]

No one is making a comment on their life decisions - if people don't want kids...that's fine. It's the self obsessed selfishness that is clear for all to see that I have an issue with.

Am I missing the point, or are we meant to be living our lives subjectively? And whomever we choose to bring into/create in order to enrich our lives is entirely for that purpose? All decisions are selfish and self indulgent to some degree, so don't be under any illusions. So if you want to enjoy that hard earned money YOU worked for by spending it on yourself, go ahead and do it! Because you were the one to give up a few hours of your life every day to do that, so why should you be the one to lose out? If ultimately spending that money on a child is what will give you satisfaction, then that's your decision entirely. But if you'd rather follow other pursuits and goals/loves, then who cares? At the end of the day, life is in existence for you to find your own personal nirvana. Nirvana isn't attained by trying to fit in with what people deem right and the norm. Being true to yourself is what truelly matters. Selfishness doesn't make for bad people. Selfishness being a gateway to ill morals and ill treatment of others and yourself makes for bad people.

[skcin]

No one is making a comment on their life decisions - if people don't want kids...that's fine. It's the self obsessed selfishness that is clear for all to see that I have an issue with.

Yeah! How dare people be honest about how they feel! They should feel totally guilty & shameful for feeling this way. Bastards.

[HomerMcvie]

I think regardless of how we feel about, or want, kids, the fact is:
This world is highly over-populated. The more of us that choose to not have kids, ARE DOING THIS PLANET A FAVOR.

[Fleetwoodmark]

Yeah! How dare people be honest about how they feel! They should feel totally guilty & shameful for feeling this way. Bastards.

Toungue firmly in cheek I know but anywhere in the civilised world if you were caught saying some of the stuff people on here have towards kids you would come across as a little strange.

Let's hope it's only an open internet persona.

[Silver Springs]

Toungue firmly in cheek I know but anywhere in the civilised world if you were caught saying some of the stuff people on here have towards kids you would come across as a little strange.

Let's hope it's only an open internet persona.

What? That they dislike them and they're an inconvenience to their lifestyle? People have every right to feel that way about children if they wish. There's a big difference between disliking them and openly threatening them harm. You wouldn't force a person onto yourself if you disliked them, so why a child? I don't like like children. Does that make me strange? No it doesn't. It makes me me, an assertive individual who is confident enough to stand by their beliefs.

[HomerMcvie]

There's a big difference between disliking them and openly threatening them harm.
And no one has threatened them harm. Only some overly sensitive people here, who too easily get their panties in a bunch.

[bluefox4000]

I do not dislike children. But I would be a HORRIBLE parent. I would never want a child to be raised by me. Also....being disabled, I need special help myself. So connect the dots. If that makes me selfish. So be it. But there's no need to pop a lobe over this:eek: Plus I'm happy with just me and Jess

Mick

[Silver Springs]

I do not dislike children. But I would be a HORRIBLE parent. I would never want a child to be raised by me. Also....being disabled, I need special help myself. So connect the dots. If that makes me selfish. So be it. But there's no need to pop a lobe over this:eek: Plus I'm happy with just me and Jess

Mick

I know, right? I wonder what ever happened to live and let live..

[bluefox4000]

That Ideal died looong ago. Now it's think like me or die:distress::nod:

Mick

[louielouie2000]

I wonder what ever happened to live and let live..

That Ideal died looong ago. Now it's think like me or die

I know, right? Seems to be the way of the land the past 10 odd years. But the best way to get back to 'live and let live' is by doing just that. I may not agree with FleetwoodMark, for instance, but he's entitled to his approach/opinions, and I'm entitled to mine. :thumbsup:

[HomerMcvie]

That Ideal died looong ago. Now it's think like me or die:distress::nod:

Mick

Hits.nail.on.head.

Yes, that is the land we now live in. And the PROBLEM is, everyone likes to think that it's only conservative, religious, right wing America, that thinks this way. But it's not only them. It's everybody.
I live in a liberal mecca(for the mid-west), and most of the uber liberal, "free thinking", "OPEN" people, are more narrow minded, than the Pentecostal people I know.
Most of my artsy fartsy, musician, vegan, gay and lesbian friends, are as narrow minded, as anyone I've ever met.

Mick, you said it. Think like me, or die.

[bluefox4000]

Thanks. As a result I try to be as open as possible. It's hard boy....But I try my hardest. Because I see my country falling that way....it's sad

Mick

[McTrouble]

i so agree with you!! its our lives and if we dont want kids and we want to spend all of our own hard earned money on ourselves then who cares?!! i work for it so if i want to spend it, i am gonna spend it. i am selfish and i will admit it but i dont see it as a bad thing at all. i love being married and i love spending all my time with my hubby. i dont want anything to come between that. i like it just being me and him and i love love love my free time.

I can't add anything to that - it's EXACTLY how I feel, especially that last bit :nod:

[McTrouble]

I think regardless of how we feel about, or want, kids, the fact is:
This world is highly over-populated. The more of us that choose to not have kids, ARE DOING THIS PLANET A FAVOR.

Oh well said - we selfish gits are actually the saviours of this planet :blob1:

[bretonbanquet]

The number of people in the West who choose not to have kids is far outweighed by the number of people elsewhere in the world who choose to have 6 or 8 kids. Overpopulation is not really caused by the West, where birth rates are generally pretty low. The birth rate in the US is about 14 births per 1000 people and 11 in the UK - in Africa and parts of the Middle East it's up past 35, towards 50 in some cases. The average is about 20.

People not having kids in the West aren't going to save us from overpopulation...

[HomerMcvie]

People not having kids in the West aren't going to save us from overpopulation...But it will cut down, on US having to wait in line for a potable beverage!

[bretonbanquet]

But it will cut down, on US having to wait in line for a potable beverage!

That's true :laugh: I'm suprised you're not making your own by now!

[HomerMcvie]

That's true :laugh: I'm suprised you're not making your own by now!

I actually own a Mr. Beer brewing kit. I made many batches, about 5 years ago....and without going into detail, I started getting boils. Started researching boils, and they're caused by impurities in your blood. That homemade beer has tons of sh*t floating around in it. I stopped the homebrew, and voila, no more boils.

[jannieC]

I actually own a Mr. Beer brewing kit. I made many batches, about 5 years ago....and without going into detail, I started getting boils. Started researching boils, and they're caused by impurities in your blood. That homemade beer has tons of sh*t floating around in it. I stopped the homebrew, and voila, no more boils.

OMG Beer Boils. And you got mad at ME for mentioning veins in hot dogs? :xoxo:

[HomerMcvie]

OMG Beer Boils. And you got mad at ME for mentioning veins in hot dogs? :xoxo:

At least I didn't tell you where they were!!!! Walking, in itself, was a BITCH! At least I figured out what was causing it!

[mezzoforte]

The number of people in the West who choose not to have kids is far outweighed by the number of people elsewhere in the world who choose to have 6 or 8 kids. Overpopulation is not really caused by the West, where birth rates are generally pretty low. The birth rate in the US is about 14 births per 1000 people and 11 in the UK - in Africa and parts of the Middle East it's up past 35, towards 50 in some cases. The average is about 20.

People not having kids in the West aren't going to save us from overpopulation...

Very true--the vast majority of population growth in the last 50 years has been in the third world. However, in extremely developed countries like America, the average person consumes far more resources than the average person in India, and I think it's basically unsustainable. So when people make the choice not to have children, I think it's quite generous of them, actually.

[bretonbanquet]

I actually own a Mr. Beer brewing kit. I made many batches, about 5 years ago....and without going into detail, I started getting boils. Started researching boils, and they're caused by impurities in your blood. That homemade beer has tons of sh*t floating around in it. I stopped the homebrew, and voila, no more boils.

:shocked: :laugh:

Very true--the vast majority of population growth in the last 50 years has been in the third world. However, in extremely developed countries like America, the average person consumes far more resources than the average person in India, and I think it's basically unsustainable. So when people make the choice not to have children, I think it's quite generous of them, actually.

True. But then in 20 years or so, we can expect the average person in India to be consuming many times the resources that they currently do. China is a good example of how previously impoverished nations gain serious wealth in a fairly short time. As parts of the developing world grow their economies, then their people will ratchet up their consumption of food and, importantly, oil. Car ownership in China has gone through the roof in 10 years. The world's oil will run out faster than was predicted just a few years ago.

Also, I don't think anyone chooses not to have children as an act of generosity to the world - though I don't think you meant it that way :)

[sara1998]

Wow. So talking about Sara for the past 10 years on here has offended some? LMAO! Not that I care... she is the biggest part of my life and I'll continue to talk about her. I've never been one of those over the top mom's (oh, my baby twitched in her sleep- how cute) but she's the love of my life, and of course she's gonna come up in conversation. I raised my child well enough that as a toddler, she was a pleasure to go to dinner and the book store with. Actually, she threw one fit in a store once - a book store as a matter of fact. She was pissed because I told her she could chose one book, not both. I calmly took both books from her hands, picked her up, and immediately left the store. She never did it after that. The people who have screaming kids in public aren't all bad either. You have to understand, a baby/toddler cannot exactly control their being tired or hungry. Or their emotions. Kids have bad days too. It's the parents, not the children, I'm looking at when their kid is in the store throwing a fit because they were told no to whatever... a child can be taught how to behave properly in public, and if they haven't been taught, it's not the childs fault. I'm not saying my child is perfect. Far from it. But I would never NOT take her in public out of fear of pissing non parents off. If children annoy you that bad, stay home. I'm proud to say that Sara is a pretty good kid. A bit of a smart ass, back talking 12 year old, but nothing she won't grow out of. I never once said I didn't want kids, but I never felt as if my life would be empty without. I was 21 when I had her, so I honestly haven't had a life without a kid. I'd be lonely without her. And I'm not knocking anyone who says they're too selfish to have one. Good for you for realizing it. If it accidently happened anyway, that selfishness would go away. I just bought a pair of tennis shoes for the first time in 3 years for myself. I haven't had the money to, and I'm okay with that.... but my Sara looks FABULOUS!

Janet, I enjoyed your "Lanie made a poo" post. I want more posts like it! I often wonder how she's doing.

[jannieC]

^^^^^
I take Laney places with me, but I really don't enjoy being in a restaurant with her right now. It's not that she throws fits, she's just...loud. Her baseline volume is pretty loud anyway. And she has trouble with the sitting in her seat while we're eating. It's just stressful for me, so I don't do it very much.

Maria, she peed in the potty all on her own yesterday! lol

[GODDESS6]

Wow. So talking about Sara for the past 10 years on here has offended some? LMAO! Not that I care... she is the biggest part of my life and I'll continue to talk about her. I've never been one of those over the top mom's (oh, my baby twitched in her sleep- how cute) but she's the love of my life, and of course she's gonna come up in conversation. I raised my child well enough that as a toddler, she was a pleasure to go to dinner and the book store with. Actually, she threw one fit in a store once - a book store as a matter of fact. She was pissed because I told her she could chose one book, not both. I calmly took both books from her hands, picked her up, and immediately left the store. She never did it after that. The people who have screaming kids in public aren't all bad either. You have to understand, a baby/toddler cannot exactly control their being tired or hungry. Or their emotions. Kids have bad days too. It's the parents, not the children, I'm looking at when their kid is in the store throwing a fit because they were told no to whatever... a child can be taught how to behave properly in public, and if they haven't been taught, it's not the childs fault. I'm not saying my child is perfect. Far from it. But I would never NOT take her in public out of fear of pissing non parents off. If children annoy you that bad, stay home. I'm proud to say that Sara is a pretty good kid. A bit of a smart ass, back talking 12 year old, but nothing she won't grow out of. I never once said I didn't want kids, but I never felt as if my life would be empty without. I was 21 when I had her, so I honestly haven't had a life without a kid. I'd be lonely without her. And I'm not knocking anyone who says they're too selfish to have one. Good for you for realizing it. If it accidently happened anyway, that selfishness would go away. I just bought a pair of tennis shoes for the first time in 3 years for myself. I haven't had the money to, and I'm okay with that.... but my Sara looks FABULOUS!

Janet, I enjoyed your "Lanie made a poo" post. I want more posts like it! I often wonder how she's doing.

maria you know i personally love hearing stories of your sara~ seeing she & my son are the same age, i feel like they have grown up together ledgie style:D~ right down to only throwing a public fit once & in a book store as well~ it's been a pleasure watching her grow~

[skcin]

Wow. So talking about Sara for the past 10 years on here has offended some? LMAO! Not that I care... she is the biggest part of my life and I'll continue to talk about her.

I don't think anyone's offended, and I don't think you talk about Sara to much. :confused: I actually don't think there's anyone on The Ledge who blahblahblahs about their kid too much. :shrug: Not that I can think of anyway.

And Jannie - I agree. It's really hard to sit & relax & enjoy a meal with a toddler there. So f*ck that. :)

[HomerMcvie]

maria you know i personally love hearing stories of your sara~ seeing she & my son are the same age, i feel like they have grown up together ledgie style:D~ right down to only throwing a public fit once & in a book store as well~ it's been a pleasure watching her grow~

Yes, Maria - you don't talk about Sara, too much!
And you are one of the finest people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting! I absolutely respect the hell out of you...especially how well you're doing, raising Sara and Sam, on your own.
You, are a freaking AWESOME person.:)

We need to plan at least a couple of Indiana/'tucky get togethers, now that it's getting nice outside! Red Stag:30!!!!:woohoo:
Btw- have you tried Red Stag and Sprite? OMFG, it's the tastiest fukcing drink on the planet!

[sara1998]

maria you know i personally love hearing stories of your sara~ seeing she & my son are the same age, i feel like they have grown up together ledgie style:D~ right down to only throwing a public fit once & in a book store as well~ it's been a pleasure watching her grow~

Aww, thank you! I think it's amazing to watch them grow from a distance. It's been a pleasure watching your son as well!!

[sara1998]

Yes, Maria - you don't talk about Sara, too much!
And you are one of the finest people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting! I absolutely respect the hell out of you...especially how well you're doing, raising Sara and Sam, on your own.
You, are a freaking AWESOME person.:)

We need to plan at least a couple of Indiana/'tucky get togethers, now that it's getting nice outside! Red Stag:30!!!!:woohoo:
Btw- have you tried Red Stag and Sprite? OMFG, it's the tastiest fukcing drink on the planet!

Thanks David. :) 'Tucky is talking about hanging out around the end of this month. Sara is going on vacation with my folks. We should chat about it soon.

[sara1998]

Maria, she peed in the potty all on her own yesterday! lol

I'm so proud of her!!! Great job!