Which Christine McVie song from Tusk is your favorite?

[FuzzyPlum]

Since you guys brought up Mama Cass we must look at Michelle Phillips. Attractive, in a band with hit songs, but never came close to Stevie Nicks’ success.

It’s not just the way Stevie looked. Stevie’s got/had something inside. But when the spell is broken for you, it’s like you pulled the cloth from Dorian Gray’s picture and you can never unsee the visage.

I’d never thought about the comparison, but since you brought it up, it’s interesting how similar their looks were. Not identical, but definitely they both represented that California woman look, with their blond hair blowing in the wind. I’m surprised I hadn't noticed that before. Michelle Phillips seemed more interested in acting, having a few roles in the 70s before finally joining Knots Landing, which is where I became a fan. Isn’t she Chyna Phillip’s mother, who was in Wilson Phillips? I think I read somewhere that when Wilson Phillips auditioned for their record label, they sang Wild Heart by Stevie Nicks, and I know they covered Go Your Own Way somewhere.


...a slightly unfair comparison I think. They had similar profiles, but chose different paths in life. If Michelle Phillips had continued with music immediately after TMATP's she may well have had a significantly successful solo career.
btw- I'm surprised Stevie's has never attempted proper acting (aside from playing herself) or been offered roles.

[On Ice]

Could be a whole new thread on Stevie's "it" factor and how long in her career it "really" was like that vs the terrible decisions she's made and the squandered back catalogue of amazing song writing. Look, I've been fan since 1975 and continued unabated until I saw them on the Say You Will Tour, I haven't seen Stevie solo since 1991! Thirty years ago. At one time in my circles, there was. no more devoted fan than yours truly.

In my opinion, had she kept focusing on her song writing, took better care of her voice and got help with her severe cocaine addiction, I think she could have carried it post Bella Donna. Therefore the induction into the RRHOF would've been truly genuine. The continuing fandom is remembering the Stevie of 75-83 not who she is now, is my strongly held opinion.

[soul_drifter333]

Could be a whole new thread on Stevie's "it" factor and how long in her career it "really" was like that vs the terrible decisions she's made and the squandered back catalogue of amazing song writing. Look, I've been fan since 1975 and continued unabated until I saw them on the Say You Will Tour, I haven't seen Stevie solo since 1991! Thirty years ago. At one time in my circles, there was. no more devoted fan than yours truly.

In my opinion, had she kept focusing on her song writing, took better care of her voice and got help with her severe cocaine addiction, I think she could have carried it post Bella Donna. Therefore the induction into the RRHOF would've been truly genuine. The continuing fandom is remembering the Stevie of 75-83 not who she is now, is my strongly held opinion.

My story too, only the last time I saw her was 2001 and it was by far the worst of her performances. I saw FM twice in 2003 and she wasn't much better then either. It was also around this time I noticed that hew attitude in interviews was horrible. I can still enjoy the 75-83 material but I have NO desire to see her live ever again. Her current voice is excruciating. I think that she could sing at least a little bit better but she seems to think she sounds good and of course her YES people won't tell her otherwise. I just hope that I can sell 40 years of memorabilia that I have collected.

[bwboy]

...a slightly unfair comparison I think. They had similar profiles, but chose different paths in life. If Michelle Phillips had continued with music immediately after TMATP's she may well have had a significantly successful solo career.
btw- I'm surprised Stevie's has never attempted proper acting (aside from playing herself) or been offered roles.

I think she said she has been offered acting roles, after FM made the Gypsy video, but that she declined them. I do remember reading in USA Today that she turned down the role of Don Johnson’s lover in a story arc on Miami Vice, and that Melanie Griffith got the part, which resulted in their eventual marriage. I believe the role was a 3 part episode with Crockett being a bodyguard to a female rock star and falling in love with her. Don’t remember all the details so if anyone knows, feel free to add to or correct what I said.

[bombaysaffires]

Stevie's own admission is that she doesn't like being told what to do. She clearly put up with some of that in exchange for getting in a successful band and making hugely successful albums/tours with them. then she got solo success and her need to tolerate being told what to do by her bandmates decreased, until now she feels like they need her more than she needs them and she doesn't have to listen to ANY of them anymore if she doesn't want to.....and can have the offending party/parties removed from the band even, with an order sent from on high from her presidential suite.

No way she could tolerate taking direction on a film set. She was barely manageable by the directors of the band's videos or her own. Part of the reason Jimmy was out as producer in the end was because he didn't kiss her ass and say everything was great. No way he'd be able to hide her in the basement of his house after she got Bella Donna success, and especially after following it up with WH success to prove it wasn't just a fluke.

She's all about the power and control.

[On Ice]

soul Drifter- even in the heyday years, which she got a wide pass on her weaknesses, despite some of the brutally honest reviews, she would say stuff in interviews that I even went "huh?" for instance, after Tusk was released she lamented that she would have huge disappointment in "everyone" if the album didn't sell. Oh $tevie!!!

[jbrownsjr]

soul Drifter- even in the heyday years, which she got a wide pass on her weaknesses, despite some of the brutally honest reviews, she would say stuff in interviews that I even went "huh?" for instance, after Tusk was released she lamented that she would have huge disappointment in "everyone" if the album didn't sell. Oh $tevie!!!

Sounds like something she would say.


Welcome Everyone!! :distress:

[aleuzzi]

I don’t think more albums and tours would have had any commercial effect on Lindsey’s achievement. He could have put two albums out for every one of Stevie’s and still not have built an audience to rival hers. He simply does not have the mass appeal that she does. He functions best on every level as a personal, idiosyncratic musical voice with quirky aural references to pop, doo wop, jazz, roots, garage, alternative, Tin Pan Alley, and all sorts of styles that allow him to multitrack inventively and core into solitary, self-referential emotional states — none of which exactly makes for across-the-board appeal or casual listening. He has more in common with David Lynch and Eraserhead than just the hair.

The Macsters used to talk about how weird it was that they were all in the same band. Well, Lindsey is the weirdest of all: an abstruse contemporary artist in a workaday touring band with mega sales. That the blend created some great albums and exciting shows is really a miracle.

Lindsey really is an oddball. Ironically, that sensibility lifts the "workaday" setting, infuses the music with a quirky, eccentric character that distinguishes it from countless other bands. FM has always relied on their lead guitarists to shape their sound. In 1972, for example, it was Kirwan whose ache and sting made good music great (a paraphrase of Bud Scoppa's Rolling Stone review).

The core trio--Fleetwood and the McVies--belong together naturally. A once-married stolid duo and their crazy-eyed buddy. Together, they have created a sturdy, dependable musical bed for their axe men.

Stevie is just as out-of-place among the core trio as Buckingham. And I would argue more so. Listen to how comfortable and logical he sounds with Fleetwood and the McVies on Buckingham /McVie. The relationship he has with the rhythm section, and the fruitful creative partnership he has with Christine are very real and believable. By contrast, all of Stevie's songs from 1975 onward, perhaps with the exception of "Dreams" and "Gypsy," no matter how good the material and the performances, sound inserted. Granted, I love her contributions, but they are weirder alongside Christine and Lindsey's material than either of theirs with each other.

[HomerMcvie]

Lindsey really is an oddball. Ironically, that sensibility lifts the "workaday" setting, infuses the music with a quirky, eccentric character that distinguishes it from countless other bands. FM has always relied on their lead guitarists to shape their sound. In 1972, for example, it was Kirwan whose ache and sting made good music great (a paraphrase of Bud Scoppa's Rolling Stone review).

The core trio--Fleetwood and the McVies--belong together naturally. A once-married stolid duo and their crazy-eyed buddy. Together, they have created a sturdy, dependable musical bed for their axe men.

Stevie is just as out-of-place among the core trio as Buckingham. And I would argue more so. Listen to how comfortable and logical he sounds with Fleetwood and the McVies on Buckingham /McVie. The relationship he has with the rhythm section, and the fruitful creative partnership he has with Christine are very real and believable. By contrast, all of Stevie's songs from 1975 onward, perhaps with the exception of "Dreams" and "Gypsy," no matter how good the material and the performances, sound inserted. Granted, I love her contributions, but they are weirder alongside Christine and Lindsey's material than either of theirs with each other.

I mean, look at Law And Order. OBVIOUSLY, he NEVER wanted $tevie's popularity. At least back then he didn't(until OOTC - but it was too late, then?). He didn't have the mass appeal that the old goat does(neither did Christine). Whatevs.

It's really weird that $tevie made it to the top like $he did, because I firmly believe that $he's an idiot. But $he had the charisma, and that in itself, took root and ran it's very successful course. Good for her. :mad::lol:

I will put a $5 bill in the mail to you right now, if you never use the term "axe man" again. :lol: I hate it when reporters describe guitar players as AXE MEN. Gimme your addy, and that $5 is on it's way!:lol:

The ultimate FM for ~we real FLEETWOOD MAC fans~ would have been just Lindsey and Christine in 1975. They wouldn't have skyrocketed, but it would have been a great, solid band.

[bwboy]

The ultimate FM for ~we real FLEETWOOD MAC fans~ would have been just Lindsey and Christine in 1975. They wouldn't have skyrocketed, but it would have been a great, solid band.

I can’t imagine Fleetwood Mac without any of the 5 people who performed on FM or Rumours. I don’t believe those albums would have been hits without all of them, but specifically the trio of McVie, Buckingham, and Nicks. If even one of those 3 had been missing, those albums wouldn’t have been successful. I don’t normally believe in serendipity, but in FM’s case, I believe their success was contingent upon all 3 of those singer/songwriters. FM before Buckingham/Nicks joined was getting by, and Buckingham/Nicks had just been dropped by their label. Together, in that moment and time, they created music that will be remembered forever. But without even one of them, the dynamic changes too much. That’s not to say they can’t make good music as a duo (Say You Will and Buck/Vie), just that they aren’t as incredible as the albums where all 3 appear.

[aleuzzi]

I will put a $5 bill in the mail to you right now, if you never use the term "axe man" again. :lol: I hate it when reporters describe guitar players as AXE MEN. Gimme your addy, and that $5 is on it's way!:lol:



Christina, hand me the axe!

[HomerMcvie]

Christina, hand me the axe!

No $5 for you!!!!:mad::mad::mad:









:lol::lol::lol:

[FuzzyPlum]

If Fleetwood Mac had added Lindsey as their axe man on his own back in 1975 they would have been a good band. Not as successful as we know them now, but he would have surely lifted them above what Bob could ever have offered. No disrespect to Bob, but he was limited (his limit was great). But Lindsey wielding that axe in his place (sans Stevie) would always have been a notch or two up on what they had before.

[SteveMacD]

I mean, look at Law And Order. OBVIOUSLY, he NEVER wanted $tevie's popularity. At least back then he didn't(until OOTC - but it was too late, then?).
By 1993, Lindsey was such a non-entity that they played “Don’t Stop” when announcing “With special guest Lindsey Buckingham of Fleetwood Mac” on the radio ads for the Tina Turner concert.

He didn't have the mass appeal that the old goat does(neither did Christine). Whatevs.
Christine didn’t need it, though, since she did just fine within the context of Fleetwood Mac. And then, she retired. Between their Mac and solo careers, Christine and Stevie have a surprisingly similar number of hit singles.

It‘s really as simple as out of sight, out of mind. By not cultivating a solo career, regardless of its commercial appeal, by going eleven years without touring, and having an eleven year gap between studio albums, Lindsey let his career become completely dependent on Stevie and Fleetwood Mac.

Dave Mason, for example, never had a Top 20 album or a Top 10 hit, but he kept touring and was still a major touring act in the 1970s.

It's really weird that $tevie made it to the top like $he did, because I firmly believe that $he's an idiot.
She had the drive and came up with a strategy early on about how to achieve her goals. Can anyone blame her for not wanting to be at the mercy of that lot? That had to be intimidating for her, not being competent on a musical instrument and completely reliant on someone with whom she had an acrimonious relationship. I genuinely believe she did “Bella Donna” because she had more songs and needed another outlet to release them, but then it took on a life of its own. She could call the shots. No compromise, no drama, and no sharing album space (more royalties).

[UnwindedDreams]

By 1993, Lindsey was such a non-entity that they played “Don’t Stop” when announcing “With special guest Lindsey Buckingham of Fleetwood Mac” on the radio ads for the Tina Turner concert.
They used Don't Stop and Go Your Own Way in commercials for Stevie concerts in Australia. At least Lindsey shares lead vocals with Christine on Don't Stop.
Also from 2005-2007, there were Ticketmaster events that were named "Stevie Nicks of Fleetwood Mac"

It's not a contest. Stevie's bigger and internationally known, but not internationally known like Madonna, Tina, or Dolly.

[SteveMacD]

They used Don't Stop and Go Your Own Way in commercials for Stevie concerts in Australia. At least Lindsey shares lead vocals with Christine on Don't Stop.
Also from 2005-2007, there were Ticketmaster events that were named "Stevie Nicks of Fleetwood Mac"
Yeah, but this was in the United States, their primary market.

It's not a contest. Stevie's bigger and internationally known, but not internationally known like Madonna, Tina, or Dolly.
And their contributions to Fleetwood Mac were quite legendary.

[UnwindedDreams]

Yeah, but this was in the United States, their primary market. Stevie's said Australia is her best market. She said she can tour their whenever she wants, even without new product.

[HomerMcvie]

She had the drive and came up with a strategy early on about how to achieve her goals. Can anyone blame her for not wanting to be at the mercy of that lot? That had to be intimidating for her, not being competent on a musical instrument and completely reliant on someone with whom she had an acrimonious relationship. I genuinely believe she did “Bella Donna” because she had more songs and needed another outlet to release them, but then it took on a life of its own. She could call the shots. No compromise, no drama, and no sharing album space (more royalties).

Bella Donna is a masterpiece. $he should have left her trailer hooked to Jimmy Iovine's bumper. Can you imagine if $he'd turned out a couple more albums that were as good(or even close) as BD?

But $he had to sleep with everyone musical that $he's ever met, so I guess that wasn't possible.

If $he hates compromise so much, $he should have left FM and never returned.:angel::angel::angel:

[SteveMacD]

Bella Donna is a masterpiece. $he should have left her trailer hooked to Jimmy Iovine's bumper. Can you imagine if $he'd turned out a couple more albums that were as good(or even close) as BD?
The Wild Heart comes close, but I agree.

But $he had to sleep with everyone musical that $he's ever met, so I guess that wasn't possible.
Eh, that’s not the problem in and of itself. Grace Slick seemed to do fine with the Jeffersons. Stevie’s problem was cocaine and surrounding herself with yes people.

If $he hates compromise so much, $he should have left FM and never returned.:angel::angel::angel:
I think she absolutely should have left after BD outsold Fleetwood Mac. Christine was still the primary hit singles writer. The band could have easily survived Stevie leaving anytime prior to 1987. After Lindsey quit, that was a different story.

[SteveMacD]

Stevie's said Australia is her best market. She said she can tour their whenever she wants, even without new product.

I didn’t say “best,” I said “primary.”

[HomerMcvie]

Stevie’s problem was cocaine and surrounding herself with yes people.


$he fixed the former, yet boosted the latter.

$he got them backwards!:woohoo::wavey::woohoo:

[UnwindedDreams]

I didn’t say “best,” I said “primary.”

Well in the US, from 2005-2007, there were Stevie shows sold on TM as Stevie Nicks of Fleetwood Mac.

Point is Fleetwood Mac is the mothership. And that name sells more tickets and for a higher price than solo shows. And multiple nights at venues plus stadiums seating 30,000 plus.

[SteveMacD]

Well in the US, from 2005-2007, there were Stevie shows sold on TM as Stevie Nicks of Fleetwood Mac.

Point is Fleetwood Mac is the mothership. And that name sells more tickets and for a higher price than solo shows. And multiple nights at venues plus stadiums seating 30,000 plus.

And where did I argue otherwise?

[UnwindedDreams]

And where did I argue otherwise?

You do love arguing!

[SteveMacD]

You do love arguing!

And you love stalking me.

[johnnystorms]

'I think she absolutely should have left after BD outsold Fleetwood Mac. Christine was still the primary hit singles writer. The band could have easily survived Stevie leaving anytime prior to 1987. After Lindsey quit, that was a different story.'
I don't agree with that. If she left at the height of her solo success, FM would have been badly hurt by losing their star drawing power. Mirage without Gypsy?? No Stevie in Hold Me video??

[aleuzzi]

'I think she absolutely should have left after BD outsold Fleetwood Mac. Christine was still the primary hit singles writer. The band could have easily survived Stevie leaving anytime prior to 1987. After Lindsey quit, that was a different story.'

I don't agree with that. If she left at the height of her solo success, FM would have been badly hurt by losing their star drawing power. Mirage without Gypsy?? No Stevie in Hold Me video??

Agreed. FM needed her more than ever in 1981–if they wanted to keep up their mega-blockbuster streak. Now, if they had decided to rebrand themselves on a hard-working, lower-key scale, putting out an album a year with LB/CM at the helm, it could have eventually worked well. But LB would never put out an album a year, and the Brits became very fond of the big money. And in truth, the live shows would have needed to change (more daring instrumentation and arrangements to compensate for the lack of the flashy, swirling vocalist..). In truth, there was no going back to their mid-level status. Not if they could avoid it. That’s why LB’s quitting in 87 was such a blow...

Btw: I ❤️ Christine’s TUSK songs :)

[elle]

Agreed. FM needed her more than ever in 1981–if they wanted to keep up their mega-blockbuster streak. Now, if they had decided to rebrand themselves on a hard-working, lower-key scale, putting out an album a year with LB/CM at the helm, it could have eventually worked well. But LB would never put out an album a year, and the Brits became very fond of the big money. And in truth, the live shows would have needed to change (more daring instrumentation and arrangements to compensate for the lack of the flashy, swirling vocalist..). In truth, there was no going back to their mid-level status. Not if they could avoid it. That’s why LB’s quitting in 87 was such a blow...

Btw: I ❤️ Christine’s TUSK songs :)

Let’s reframe this - what are we talking about here? There was a single, short Mirage tour that we are talking about here. They were fracturing and talking about whether they existed as a band or not before / during Mirage tour anyway. So there was barely a working band at the point after Bella Donna success.

[BombaySapphire3]

Let’s reframe this - what are we talking about here? There was a single, short Mirage tour that we are talking about here. They were fracturing and talking about whether they existed as a band or not before / during Mirage tour anyway. So there was barely a working band at the point after Bella Donna success.

Albums were still selling millions then and Fleetwood Mac were still having hit singles so that is where the money was more so than touring.If Stevie had left in 1981 the sales would have suffered even though Christine was writing most of the hits .Fleetwood Mac also needed Lindsey..it is no coincidence that after he left the big hits stopped just as suddenly as they had started when he joined the band.That it is why it was so easy to toss him aside in 2018. By then it was the tours that made all of the money.

[jbrownsjr]

So Brown Eyes, Honey Hi, Over and Over (all gems)

But for some reason, I want to argue about Stevie and Lindsey.

[aleuzzi]

So Brown Eyes, Honey Hi, Over and Over (all gems)

But for some reason, I want to argue about Stevie and Lindsey.

Never Forget, Think About Me...among the most tuneful songs on the album.

“But yes, let’s pretend she isn’t there and decide who is more important to the band: Lindsey or Stevie.”

[SteveMacD]

Albums were still selling millions then and Fleetwood Mac were still having hit singles so that is where the money was more so than touring.If Stevie had left in 1981 the sales would have suffered even though Christine was writing most of the hits .
I disagree. The Fleetwood Mac brand still had a lot of weight beyond Stevie in 1981. Furthermore, if they had been so inclined, they could have replaced her with someone like Juice Newton (who I bring up because she sang on the album version of Ebony Eyes, had just had two huge hits with Queen of Hearts and Angel of the Morning, and kind of had a Stevie vibe). That would have given them a curiosity factor.

Fleetwood Mac also needed Lindsey..it is no coincidence that after he left the big hits stopped just as suddenly as they had started when he joined the band.
I can just as easily blame that on Stevie. Not to sound like a Neanderthal, just being realistic about how pop culture works, but Stevie was entering middle age and lost most of her sex appeal. She was bloated, nasal, wore god awful makeup, had ridiculously large hair even by the standards of the late ‘80s/early ‘90s, her writing was suffering, and she was giving sluggish performances. Granted, we now know a lot of that was Klonopin, it was still hard to watch, especially just six years after Bella Donna. Stevie had become the stereotypical washed up has been. That trickled down towards everyone else.

“Behind the Mask” was a mostly subpar album. Stevie’s songs were forgettable, Rick had better songs than what made the album, Billy had one of the best songs and a couple of forgettable songs, and Christine was consistently great. Given Stevie’s decline, Christine was the only constant, which wasn’t enough to carry the band in a new era of music.

The era of classic rockers making new music that charted was ending. There was a new generation coming to prominence, and Fleetwood Mac, especially a new lineup, and other artists were getting placed on the back burner. OOTC was a critically acclaimed masterpiece and it completely tanked. To suggest he could have saved them somehow ignores a much bigger reality.

That it is why it was so easy to toss him aside in 2018. By then it was the tours that made all of the money.
That and the fact he only had three big hits with Fleetwood Mac.

[BombaySapphire3]

I disagree. The Fleetwood Mac brand still had a lot of weight beyond Stevie in 1981. Furthermore, if they had been so inclined, they could have replaced her with someone like Juice Newton (who I bring up because she sang on the album version of Ebony Eyes, had just had two huge hits with Queen of Hearts and Angel of the Morning, and kind of had a Stevie vibe). That would have given them a curiosity factor.

.

Juice Newton WTF:laugh: you have lost your last shred of crediblity.

[HomerMcvie]

Juice Newton WTF:laugh: you have lost your last shred of crediblity.
:lol::lol::lol:

I HATE Queen of Hearts more than almost any song in existence. I can't change the station fast enough when it comes on.

I can't BEGIN to imagine her in FM.

Bekka was a great replacement, though. Young, beautiful, and the best vocalist they ever had. That lineup deserved much more of a chance than they got.

[SteveMacD]

:lol::lol::lol:

I HATE Queen of Hearts more than almost any song in existence. I can't change the station fast enough when it comes on.

I can't BEGIN to imagine her in FM.

Bekka was a great replacement, though. Young, beautiful, and the best vocalist they ever had. That lineup deserved much more of a chance than they got.

I was thrilled when Stevie left and Bekka joined. I was also thrilled when Billy came back (which I found out about at the CSN show). I didn’t realize how close Billy was to the Bramletts at the time, but he and Bekka were just seamless together. Dave Mason was another story.

[SteveMacD]

Juice Newton WTF:laugh: you have lost your last shred of crediblity.

She had a connection to Fleetwood Mac and had just had three Top 10 hits in 1981.

[HomerMcvie]

I was thrilled when Stevie left and Bekka joined. I was also thrilled when Billy came back (which I found out about at the CSN show). I didn’t realize how close Billy was to the Bramletts at the time, but he and Bekka were just seamless together. Dave Mason was another story.

I saw Bekka 3-4 years ago in Nashville, and she and her band KICKED ASS. I talked to her when they were on break, and she was very sweet. I actually noticed her as I was walking into the club(BB Kings on 2nd ave, in the area that was just bombed on Christmas morning), because of course she was standing on the sidewalk, smoking. She's so beautiful(minus the smoking).

[Macfan4life]

:lol::lol::lol:

I HATE Queen of Hearts more than almost any song in existence. I can't change the station fast enough when it comes on.

I can't BEGIN to imagine her in FM.

Bekka was a great replacement, though. Young, beautiful, and the best vocalist they ever had. That lineup deserved much more of a chance than they got.
Love's been a little bit hard on me was her best song (fantastic video btw)

Now we know how to get you into the asylum......get Stevie to remake Queen of Hearts

:eek:

[bwboy]

The era of classic rockers making new music that charted was ending. There was a new generation coming to prominence, and Fleetwood Mac, especially a new lineup, and other artists were getting placed on the back burner. OOTC was a critically acclaimed masterpiece and it completely tanked. To suggest he could have saved them somehow ignores a much bigger reality.

I agree that Behind the Mask wouldn’t have sold as well as Tango whether Lindsey had recorded it with them or not. As Long As You Follow and Save Me sound like typical Christine McVie/Fleetwood Mac songs (I mean that in a good way) but music tastes were really changing by then, and radio had started to focus on new acts. I’m not talking about the quality of the material on BTM, which would have been very different with Lindsey, I just think radio was moving on, leaving a lot of the classic bands behind at that time.

[jbrownsjr]

So yea, Browns Eyes, Honey Hi, Over and Over.. Never Forget and Never Make me Cry get honorable mention. And seriously, adore Think About Me...
Wow, she really did nail the Tusk album!!!

And you'all can shut it!! Juice Newton was great!!!

... {starts whistling... playin with the queen of hearts....}

[Macfan4life]

I agree that Behind the Mask wouldn’t have sold as well as Tango whether Lindsey had recorded it with them or not. As Long As You Follow and Save Me sound like typical Christine McVie/Fleetwood Mac songs (I mean that in a good way) but music tastes were really changing by then, and radio had started to focus on new acts. I’m not talking about the quality of the material on BTM, which would have been very different with Lindsey, I just think radio was moving on, leaving a lot of the classic bands behind at that time.
I agree in part and disagree in part. IMHO there is no real reason. By 1989 Stevie's pop success was coming to and end and so was the Mac. But look at bands like Aerosmith. They had their biggest success in 1989-1991. Music was definitely changing which I agree hurt new interest. Even Heart's last charting song was 1991 yet other bands could get success. I don't think the quality of music has anything to do with it unfortunately. Payola was very big in the 80s and who knows why some amazing music peaks no interest yet no talent garbage acts sell millions.
Today I dont think anyone cares because while its nice to have commercial music success, the money is with touring which is why groups wont break up. Just way too much money involved. Stevie's 24k Gold tour yielded more than all of her previous solo tours combined. The Mac's several last tours yielded more money than any #1 album could ever produce. My first concert with Stevie in 1982, the price was $12.75 about the price of the Wild Heart album. Today, tickets sell directly for hundreds and thousands of dollars. Grossing over 1 million per night is not even that big anymore. Some nights on the 24k Gold tour, Stevie grossed well over 1 million for one show. The Mac could even do even better.
Having said all that, its so wonderful that Lindsey and especially the Buck/Vie project did not care about concert gross. The focus was on the craft.
Bon Jovi resurrected Cher's music career. IMHO, if Stevie put Sometimes its a Bitch as the first single in 1988/89 it would have charted. He had that power in the late 80s. By 1991, not so much. Her crew doing this was about 2-3 years too late.

[jbrownsjr]

I agree that Behind the Mask wouldn’t have sold as well as Tango whether Lindsey had recorded it with them or not. As Long As You Follow and Save Me sound like typical Christine McVie/Fleetwood Mac songs (I mean that in a good way) but music tastes were really changing by then, and radio had started to focus on new acts. I’m not talking about the quality of the material on BTM, which would have been very different with Lindsey, I just think radio was moving on, leaving a lot of the classic bands behind at that time.

You could be right. But, look at this... Maybe music was indeed changing; but if the Tango Tour is a smash and that momentum bleeds into Lindsey and Christine doing another album (Stevie was not present for most of BTM). Maybe we get OOTC with Christine and a few Stevie songs.

Maybe the arrangements are different and a little more fresh than a trolly train (Skies). It's possible that album and tour with the FAB 5 are another 10 million world wide sale. Fleetwood Mac was really hitting it internationally at this point.

I don't think we'd get the DANCE, however. And Stevie was re-validated by SS and that tour.

Note: As Long As You Follow is a beautiful song, the more I listen to it, the more I realize how genius it is.

[aleuzzi]

So yea, Browns Eyes, Honey Hi, Over and Over.. Never Forget and Never Make me Cry get honorable mention. And seriously, adore Think About Me...
Wow, she really did nail the Tusk album!!!

And you'all can shut it!! Juice Newton was great!!!

... {starts whistling... playin with the queen of hearts....}

Have I mentioned how good Christine’s TUSK songs really are? Awesomesauce, truly.

[HomerMcvie]

Love's been a little bit hard on me was her best song (fantastic video btw)

Now we know how to get you into the asylum......get Stevie to remake Queen of Hearts

:eek:

She said hard on.


It would need to be a medley of Queen of Hearts/Storms/Oh Daddy. Lock me up, or shove an ice pick into my ears!

[BombaySapphire3]

She had a connection to Fleetwood Mac and had just had three Top 10 hits in 1981.

I heard the songs..I was in my late teens then .On the topic of absurd replacements for members of Fleetwood Mac's classic lineup I would have picked Tanya Tucker to swap out with Stevie then. She had the vibrato and could have held her own with Nick's cocaine and booze consumption.

[HomerMcvie]

I heard the songs..I was in my late teens then .On the topic of absurd replacements for members of Fleetwood Mac's classic lineup I would have picked Tanya Tucker to swap out with Stevie then. She had the vibrato and could have held her own with Nick's cocaine and booze consumption.

Tanya could do that! I have two friends that have played in her band. One of my friends had to quit because his wife told him, "it's either me or the cocaine...choose". And the only way he could quit was to get off touring with her, because everyone was doing it. And I'm not talking about a long time ago, either. About a decade ago.

AAANNNNDDDD, there's another name for Tanya Tucker that they have. Canya F*cker. Because I guess if you want to, you can. Everybody's doing it!

[BombaySapphire3]

Tanya could do that! I have two friends that have played in her band. One of my friends had to quit because his wife told him, "it's either me or the cocaine...choose". And the only way he could quit was to get off touring with her, because everyone was doing it. And I'm not talking about a long time ago, either. Maybe a decade ago.

AAANNNNDDDD, there's another name for Tanya Tucker that they have. Canya F*cker. Because I guess if you want to, you can. Everybody's doing it!

Right ! I had forgotten to mention that other factor that Tanya and Stevie had in common .They seldom missed the opportunity for a roll in the hay. They were both more like men in their conquests back then .

[Macfan4life]

You could be right. But, look at this... Maybe music was indeed changing; but if the Tango Tour is a smash and that momentum bleeds into Lindsey and Christine doing another album (Stevie was not present for most of BTM). Maybe we get OOTC with Christine and a few Stevie songs.

Maybe the arrangements are different and a little more fresh than a trolly train (Skies). It's possible that album and tour with the FAB 5 are another 10 million world wide sale. Fleetwood Mac was really hitting it internationally at this point.

I don't think we'd get the DANCE, however. And Stevie was re-validated by SS and that tour.

Note: As Long As You Follow is a beautiful song, the more I listen to it, the more I realize how genius it is.
That was my first clue that music changed. When I heard ALAYF, I instantly thought it would be a #1 song. Incredible video that never was played on MTV, it was only played on VH1. That was another sign. MTV was passing on the Mac. But I thought everyone was going to go crazy to hear the new members and how good they sounded.
Wrong Wrong Wrong. Song did not even crack the top 40 (and please dont mention it did well on adult contemporary LOL. Skies the limit also cracked the top 10 of AC. That means nothing IMHO)

[bwboy]

You could be right. But, look at this... Maybe music was indeed changing; but if the Tango Tour is a smash and that momentum bleeds into Lindsey and Christine doing another album (Stevie was not present for most of BTM). Maybe we get OOTC with Christine and a few Stevie songs.

Note: As Long As You Follow is a beautiful song, the more I listen to it, the more I realize how genius it is.

Im sure you’re right that Stevie wasn’t around much for the making of BTM, but I suspect she was around for it more than she was for Tango. She’s certainly on a lot more songs on BTM, which was so refreshing. The band really sounded like a band on BTM.

Glad you like ALAYF, I’ve championed that song for years. I wish she and Stevie would have sang it on their last tour.

[bwboy]

I agree in part and disagree in part. IMHO there is no real reason. By 1989 Stevie's pop success was coming to and end and so was the Mac. But look at bands like Aerosmith. They had their biggest success in 1989-1991. Music was definitely changing which I agree hurt new interest. Even Heart's last charting song was 1991 yet other bands could get success. I don't think the quality of music has anything to do with it unfortunately.

Good points. I think Aerosmith made a successful comeback due in large part to Run DMC remaking and including the band on Walk This Way, and then by selling out when they sang Diane Warren songs and sang on soundtracks to movies like Armageddon, all things FM would never have done. But hey, it paid off for Aerosmith. I’m actually glad FM didn’t start recording songs by hit factories.

[UnwindedDreams]

That and the fact he only had three big hits with Fleetwood Mac.

It's interesting that Stevie didn't have a big hit in the United Kingdom with Fleetwood Mac. Christine ruled the UK Chart with FM. Lindsey had 3 hits with FM in the United Kingdom.

OSOTM was really big for Stevie in the United Kingdom. That was the last time she did a solo European Tour. She's played Hyde Park twice but both was opening sets for Rod Stewart and Tom Petty.

[UnwindedDreams]

I just think radio was moving on, leaving a lot of the classic bands behind at that time.It's surprising that FM got left behind in the US considering their total album sales then. Van Halen, Stones, Bruce, and AC/DC were still doing well in late 80s and early 90s.

[BombaySapphire3]

It's interesting that Stevie didn't have a big hit in the United Kingdom with Fleetwood Mac. Christine ruled the UK Chart with FM. Lindsey had 3 hits with FM in the United Kingdom.

OSOTM was really big for Stevie in the United Kingdom. That was the last time she did a solo European Tour. She's played Hyde Park twice but both was opening sets for Rod Stewart and Tom Petty.

Yeah amazing that Lindsey had as many top ten hits in England with Fleetwood Mac as he did in the U.S. Christine only had 2 ..her Tango singles but they were huge.I think that Stevie never translated as well in the U.K because she was more distinctly American:shrug: She was much bigger in Australia and New Zealand.

[jbrownsjr]

1 Brown Eyes
2 Honey Hi
3 Over and Over
4 Think About Me
5 Never Make Me Cry
6 Never Forget.

That's for you, Tony!

[Villavic]

Over My Head was never a favorite of mine, EXCEPT for the "Live 1980" album. I LOVE that version! That rocking guitar intro!

I agree too. They should have used a similar intro at The Dance.

[jbrownsjr]

I agree too. They should have used a similar intro at The Dance.

They stripped down a song that's already stripped down. The intro really hammered the song home!

[aleuzzi]

1 Brown Eyes
2 Honey Hi
3 Over and Over
4 Think About Me
5 Never Make Me Cry
6 Never Forget.

That's for you, Tony!

1. Never Forget
2. Brown Eyes
3. Honey Hi
4. Think About Me
5. Over and Over
6. Never Make Me Cry

But the early version of Never Make Me Cry, with the fuller instrumental arrangement is killer—and should have been on the record.

[aleuzzi]

I agree too. They should have used a similar intro at The Dance.

Re: Over My Head, I’m one of those people who think the album version (not single remix) is the supreme version of that song. It’s so spare and mysterious—and her vocal on it is outstanding, a kind of master class example of how much expressiveness can be achieved with a limited range of notes.

The live version from the 70s tours was more spirited and appropriately amped up for the arena, but then that magical vocal, so subtle and personal, is impossible to reproduce for 10,000 people. So, as well as Christine sings on the LIVE version, and as well as the band kicks the song into higher gear, I still prefer that exquisite studio performance.

[Macfan4life]

Re: Over My Head, I’m one of those people who think the album version (not single remix) is the supreme version of that song. It’s so spare and mysterious—and her vocal on it is outstanding, a kind of master class example of how much expressiveness can be achieved with a limited range of notes.

The live version from the 70s tours was more spirited and appropriately amped up for the arena, but then that magical vocal, so subtle and personal, is impossible to reproduce for 10,000 people. So, as well as Christine sings on the LIVE version, and as well as the band kicks the song into higher gear, I still prefer that exquisite studio performance.
I agree but I think the single cuts of all the White Album singles are so much better than the album cuts. And its all because of Lindsey and adding all these guitar licks to Say You Love Me, Rhiannon, and Over My Head. On the original album cut the song almost drifts compared to the single version where so much more guitar was added to give the song more teeth and power IMHO of course. I wish the single versions were on the album. The added guitar parts almost makes the song more up tempo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw-lIt1ILzk

[On Ice]

Nice to see we all got our awful experiences as Stevie fans out of our system:D back to the topic at hand:
Ranking these 6 awesome songs in order of greatness:

1. Brown Eyes (Yesterday's Tears Version) by far is the very best of our Songbird put to record, amazing.
2. Over and Over - another beautiful song that actually also sounded good live, like the comments on Over My Head.
3. Think About Me- her second best single ever, behind You Make Loving Fun- and it is better than SYLM or HM.
4. Honey Hi- Those wonderful harmonies and percussion
5. Never Forget- again harmonies and her terrific singing- could have used a bit more punch on the arrangement, but wonderful nonetheless.
6. Never Make Me Cry- reminds me of the Way I feel from Mystery. Again a terrific song but the other 5 are better.

I agree that the studio version of Over My Head is Unmatched although it did translate beautifully to the stage- and Stevie was terrific in her flawless harmonies.

[BLY]

Nice to see we all got our awful experiences as Stevie fans out of our system:D back to the topic at hand:
Ranking these 6 awesome songs in order of greatness:

1. Brown Eyes (Yesterday's Tears Version) by far is the very best of our Songbird put to record, amazing.
2. Over and Over - another beautiful song that actually also sounded good live, like the comments on Over My Head.
3. Think About Me- her second best single ever, behind You Make Loving Fun- and it is better than SYLM or HM.
4. Honey Hi- Those wonderful harmonies and percussion
5. Never Forget- again harmonies and her terrific singing- could have used a bit more punch on the arrangement, but wonderful nonetheless.
6. Never Make Me Cry- reminds me of the Way I feel from Mystery. Again a terrific song but the other 5 are better.

I agree that the studio version of Over My Head is Unmatched although it did translate beautifully to the stage- and Stevie was terrific in her flawless harmonies.

On Ice , I couldn’t agree more with you assessment of Christine’s Tusk songs. The only point I would make is I do prefer the original version of Brown Eyes. (but love “Tears” version)

[aleuzzi]

On Ice , I couldn’t agree more with you assessment of Christine’s Tusk songs. The only point I would make is I do prefer the original version of Brown Eyes. (but love “Tears” version)

Me too. Both versions are spectacular but the album version makes more sense for the actual album.

The Yesterday’s Tears version features great guitars and vocals, but the lyrics are a bit aimless—they seem like place-holder words. By contrast, the final album version has a definite atmosphere and aura. The switch from “I’ll always be there for you” to “I’m lusting for you” is effective, very persuasive.

Interestingly, Christine’s magnificent voice on the earlier version functions much like a horn or guitar. What she’s saying is less important than how she’s singing it.

[jbrownsjr]

1. Never Forget
2. Brown Eyes
3. Honey Hi
4. Think About Me
5. Over and Over
6. Never Make Me Cry

But the early version of Never Make Me Cry, with the fuller instrumental arrangement is killer—and should have been on the record.

You really love Never Forget... I love how Christine Starts and Ends Tusk. Which is very circular and profound. I'm gonna have to listen to NF again.

[aleuzzi]

You really love Never Forget... I love how Christine Starts and Ends Tusk. Which is very circular and profound. I'm gonna have to listen to NF again.

I’ve been working through the sheet music arrangement for it and am startled how beautiful the “B” section of the song sounds on a piano.

[jbrownsjr]

I’ve been working through the sheet music arrangement for it and am startled how beautiful the “B” section of the song sounds on a piano.

Would really love to hear what you come up with.

[aleuzzi]

Would really love to hear what you come up with.

Thanks. I’m just working from the sheet music compilation for FLEETWOOD MAC, RUMOURS, and TUSK. Some lovely chords and voicings in the song!

[jbrownsjr]

Thanks. I’m just working from the sheet music compilation for FLEETWOOD MAC, RUMOURS, and TUSK. Some lovely chords and voicings in the song!

bonk.. thunder only happens plunk... when it's plonk.. rainin....

... I wrote that down the hall in Sly's bedroom...

[HomerMcvie]

bonk.. thunder only happens plunk... when it's plonk.. rainin....

... I wrote that down the hall in Sly's bedroom...

The amazing thing is how someone with such minimal talent went so far. I guess there's no explaining the cult of personality.

[aleuzzi]

bonk.. thunder only happens plunk... when it's plonk.. rainin....

... I wrote that down the hall in Sly's bedroom...

Wrong song, dear. But maybe I should keep my visions to myself.

[jbrownsjr]

Wrong song, dear. But maybe I should keep my visions to myself.

What you don't like that original arrangement from SLY STONE'S ROOM??!!!
You hater!! The McVie's and Buck completely ruined that gem of a number 1 hit.

So yea, Never Make Me Cry demo is beautiful, too. :)

[aleuzzi]

What you don't like that original arrangement from SLY STONE'S ROOM??!!!
You hater!! The McVie's and Buck completely ruined that gem of a number 1 hit.

So yea, Never Make Me Cry demo is beautiful, too. :)

Go and do what you want. I know that you have the need....

[jbrownsjr]

Go and do what you want. I know that you have the need....

You need to come down from the mountain city.

[aleuzzi]

You need to come down from the mountain city.

Lady of the mountain

[michelej1]

Re: Over My Head, I’m one of those people who think the album version (not single remix) is the supreme version of that song. It’s so spare and mysterious—and her vocal on it is outstanding, a kind of master class example of how much expressiveness can be achieved with a limited range of notes.

The live version from the 70s tours was more spirited and appropriately amped up for the arena, but then that magical vocal, so subtle and personal, is impossible to reproduce for 10,000 people. So, as well as Christine sings on the LIVE version, and as well as the band kicks the song into higher gear, I still prefer that exquisite studio performance.

And it’s her voice that makes Calumny so special too. The aching tone, the way it swells and drops.

[jbrownsjr]

Lady of the mountain

Someone's gonna tell you when you have to stop it.

[aleuzzi]

Someone's gonna tell you when you have to stop it.

Okay, you’ve stumped me on this one. But like a willow I can bend.

[aleuzzi]

And it’s her voice that makes Calumny so special too. The aching tone, the way it swells and drops.

Yes, her vocals on Calumny and Northern Star are so expressive!

[jbrownsjr]

Okay, you’ve stumped me on this one. But like a willow I can bend.

Really??? you used to know who she was!!??

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, her vocals on Calumny and Northern Star are so expressive!

That's such a beautiful album. I wish she would have put Come Out To Play and deleted Easy Come. Something stalls a little toward the end.

[aleuzzi]

That's such a beautiful album. I wish she would have put Come Out To Play and deleted Easy Come. Something stalls a little toward the end.

...and included the acoustic version of “Friend” about 15 seconds after the outro to “Giving It Back.” But hey, I’d be happy if they just made the whole album available again on iTunes rather than pretending it never happened.

[jbrownsjr]

...and included the acoustic version of “Friend” about 15 seconds after the outro to “Giving It Back.” But hey, I’d be happy if they just made the whole album available again on iTunes rather than pretending it never happened.

Yes, it's not on Apple. grrrrr. Spotify has it.

[Villavic]

Over & Over, closely followed by Never Make Me Cry.

TAM is the typical sound of a great single. Should be a favorite, but no; I don't know why but this song has never convinced me.

I like most of this band's songs so much that sometimes my choice of favorites varies a bit. In this case, I still feel exactly the same way.

[Mr Scarrott]

Brown Eyes for me. In fact, it's my favourite track from anyone on Tusk. Sexy, mysterious and bluesy, the subliminal "touch me" at 1:28, the understated Lindsey guitar, Mick at his metronomic best, John's melodic supporting bass, Peter Green's cameo in the fadeout. A perfect album track, in my humble opinion. There was nothing really that Stevie could have added to this one to make it any better, so I'm glad she didn't.

[Andyleo]

Think About Me, equal first place for ALL the songs on Tusk. Perfect placement, even the single version rocks. I was stoked when I saw FM in Sydney and they played this song. Live, it was amazing. Christine said a song no one has ever heard, but I knew every note.:blob1::blob2:

[HomerMcvie]

Think About Me, equal first place for ALL the songs on Tusk. Perfect placement, even the single version rocks. I was stoked when I saw FM in Sydney and they played this song. Live, it was amazing. Christine said a song no one has ever heard, but I knew every note.:blob1::blob2:

It's my all time favorite FM song. I love every note. I will NEVER get tired of it. It's perfection.

[Andyleo]

It's my all time favorite FM song. I love every note. I will NEVER get tired of it. It's perfection.

I couldn't agree more! Definite perfection. It's right up there in my FM top 5 for sure. And this song, at least for me, the LOUDER the better.:nod:

[Villavic]

But don't you think TAM is the least "Tusk" song on the album? I think so and that's why, though I do like it, it's not my favorite.

[HomerMcvie]

I couldn't agree more! Definite perfection. It's right up there in my FM top 5 for sure. And this song, at least for me, the LOUDER the better.:nod:

Yep! I crank the hell out of it, every time!

Why wasn't it a bigger hit? Because it's #1 in my book.

[Mr Scarrott]

But don't you think TAM is the least "Tusk" song on the album? I think so and that's why, though I do like it, it's not my favorite.

I think you've put hit the nail on the head with the issue I have with the song as well. It reminds me of Don't Stop quite a bit, down to how Lindsey and Christine's voice mesh and the pace and feel of it. Christine's other songs are more fragmentary, sometimes fleshed out to great effect (hence my adoration of Brown Eyes).

Having said that, when you put Beautiful Child, Storms and Sara up against Dreams and Sisters of the Moon and Angel against Gold Dust Woman there's not that much in the way of daring experimentation or shredding things back to basics from Stevie. That's not to say I don't enjoy them, although I waver a bit over Angel, which I think loses its way. I don't think she ever attempted that one live did she? That leaves an ethereally beautiful quartet of songs which are amongst her finest.

Re Lindsey, I'm prepared to put up with the oversteps that are definitely Not that Funny and possibly What makes you think you're the one for the remaining septet which are often gorgeous and/or barking mad.

[lbfan]

Having said that, when you put Beautiful Child, Storms and Sara up against Dreams and Sisters of the Moon and Angel against Gold Dust Woman there's not that much in the way of daring experimentation or shredding things back to basics from Stevie. That's not to say I don't enjoy them, although I waver a bit over Angel, which I think loses its way. I don't think she ever attempted that one live did she? That leaves an ethereally beautiful quartet of songs which are amongst her finest.

I really like the live version of Angel from the Tusk Tour:
https://youtu.be/MjXpGPbO7Rw?si=67Ig13SZkKnL1XG1

[Mr Scarrott]

I really like the live version of Angel from the Tusk Tour:
https://youtu.be/MjXpGPbO7Rw?si=67Ig13SZkKnL1XG1

Hey, thanks for putting me right there. Yes, with a bit of pace, it sounds a lot better.

[FuzzyPlum]

Would have to go with Brown Eyes. But Over and Over runs it close. And I was even tempted to suggest Honey Hi just to be different. Love Honey Hi so much, but have to accept it’s not quite up there with the other two. But it is lovely. All her songs on Tusk are lovely.
All Stevies songs are great.
What a remarkable album!

[WalkAThinLine.]

I've been listening quite a bit to the live version of "Brown Eyes" found on the deluxe edition of Live recently, although, "Think About Me" is probably the song of hers from Tusk that I've listened to the most. I adore all six of her songs on that album ("Never Forget" is super underrated), and she might have my favorite collection of songs on that album.