NY governor scandal

[skcin]

What a douche. :rolleyes:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/10/spitzer/index.html

[GardenStateGirlie]

i can't help but to laugh at the idiocy. but yes, the general douchebaggery is fairly astonishing. i'm home sick so i've been watching the coverage.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/10/spitzer/index.html

(CNN) -- New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer is under investigation for allegedly meeting with a prostitute in a Washington hotel, two sources with knowledge of the investigation told CNN.

Gov. Eliot Spitzer, with his wife, Silda, by his side, apologizes to his family and to the public.

One of the sources said Spitzer is identified in a criminal complaint as "Client-9," and that Spitzer's alleged involvement was caught on a federal wiretap.

The governor's statement came four days after federal prosecutors in New York announced charges against four people accused of running an international prostitution and money-laundering ring that catered to big spenders.

According to prosecutors, Emperors Club VIP charged between $1,000 and $5,500 an hour and operated in New York; Los Angeles, California; Miami, Florida; London, England; and Paris, France.

On Monday, Spitzer apologized to his family and to the public for an undisclosed personal matter. "I have acted in a way that violates my obligations to my family, that violates my or any sense of right and wrong," he said, as his wife, Silda Wall Spitzer, stood by his side.

"I am disappointed that I failed to live up to the standard I expected of myself," he said. "I must now dedicate some time to regain the trust of my family." Watch Spitzer's apology »

Spitzer facts
Time magazine names Spitzer "Crusader of the Year" during his two terms as New York attorney general.

Tabloids label him "Eliot Ness," because of his reputation for rooting out corruption, busting white-collar criminals and tackling organized crime.

Spitzer is known for prosecuting several prostitution rings.

He attended Princeton and Harvard, then became an assistant district attorney in Manhattan.


He worked for three New York law firms and decided to run in his mid-30s for attorney general.


The first-term Democrat had been considered a rising star in his party.

Spitzer is married and has three daughters.
His statement came after a New York Times report based on a single unnamed administration official who said the governor had informed his staff he had been involved in a prostitution ring.

Spitzer did not address or deny the report, and he did not take questions.

Federal authorities are investigating allegations Spitzer met with a prostitute in a Washington hotel, a senior source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN.

Before the news conference, three Democratic sources -- one in New York's capital, Albany, one in New York, and one in Washington -- told CNN a top Spitzer aide had told them the governor would resign.

"The governor called his senior staff together and told them he wanted to inform them first about a major announcement of a personal nature," a prominent New York Democrat told CNN.

"To say this is a shock is an understatement," said CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, who went to law school with Spitzer.

Toobin called Spitzer, "the straightest arrow I know."

The Republican Governors Association has called on Spitzer to resign to "allow the people of New York to pursue honest leadership."

"The American people are tired of corrupt and hypocritical politicians. The governor of New York is just another in the long list of politicians that have failed their constituents," Nick Ayers, RGA executive director, said in a statement.


Spitzer's office, the U.S. Attorney's office in New York and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg all declined to comment on Spitzer.

Spitzer, 48, served as New York's attorney general for eight years before being elected governor.

[DavidMn]

Lemme get this straight, this guy proclaims himself to be "Mr Clean" and gets himself elected Governor of New York. Now hes caught hiring a hooker to meet him in a hotel room in Washington the night before Valentine's day. All I've ever heard about this guy is how he was this sqeaky clean anti crime guy. What a joke!:laugh: Another politicians career down the toilet.

[ashton]

He so horny.

[SuzeQuze]

hypocrite

Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date: 13th century
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
3 : a politician who claims to be on the side of virtue, justice, and integrity

Definition #3 added by me. :lol:

[strandinthewind]

“Your money’s on the dresser, Chocolate.”

:rolleyes:

[petep9000]

He's doing 'The Face' here. Bill Clinton also used to do 'The Face', especially when he was trying to look serious- like laying a wreath at some memorial or something. My ex-partner, when I'd find the liquor bottles hidden in the laundry room or in the back of the closet, also used to do 'The Face'.

I hate 'The Face'.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc297/jcastr01/artspitzerap.jpg

[Steviefan49]

What a douche. :rolleyes:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/10/spitzer/index.html

I thought this was already posted yesterday... LOL Just wondering WHY we have now 3 different threads for the SAME THING? :wavey::laugh:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I thought this was already posted yesterday... LOL Just wondering WHY we have now 3 different threads for the SAME THING? :wavey::laugh:

This thread was actually posted first

[Steviefan49]

This thread was actually posted first

Exactly... That's what I thought too.. LOLOL.. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

^^^

More notable - look at her in this pic and every other one from yesterday :eek:

[Steviefan49]

^^^

More notable - look at her in this pic and every other one from yesterday :eek:

Good thing the threads were all just combined! LOL.. THANKS to the mods!;)

[Steviefan49]

He's doing 'The Face' here. Bill Clinton also used to do 'The Face', especially when he was trying to look serious- like laying a wreath at some memorial or something. My ex-partner, when I'd find the liquor bottles hidden in the laundry room or in the back of the closet, also used to do 'The Face'.

I hate 'The Face'.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc297/jcastr01/artspitzerap.jpg

This has me cracking up.. I also had a ex that did that with the liquor bottles.. I'd also find them in the closet- and other places that were fun..

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

Good thing the threads were all just combined! LOL.. YAYYYY to the mods!;)

Sorry some of the posts are a bit out of order after the merge, but I'm sure it won't mess up the discussion too much! :cool:

[Steviefan49]

Sorry some of the posts are a bit out of order after the merge, but I'm sure it won't mess up the discussion too much! :cool:

No apologies necessary! THANKS SOOOO much! :xoxo:

[petep9000]

This has me cracking up.. I also had a ex that did that with the liquor bottles.. I'd also find them in the closet- and other places that were fun..

Yes, it's sort of funny now as I look back. But, not funny at all when it was my everyday life. Best was going to the basement to get a 2-liter bottle of diet Sprite, and when I get upstairs and opening it, not hearing the tell-tale 'hissssss' of the C02 escaping. "Gee that's funny, this is flat." Of course, it turns out the contents of the bottle was replaced with vodka.

As for Gov. Spitzer, I'd like to smack that sorry hypocritical look right off his face.

[Steviefan49]

Yes, it's sort of funny now as I look back. But, not funny at all when it was my everyday life. Best was going to the basement to get a 2-liter bottle of diet Sprite, and when I get upstairs and opening it, not hearing the tell-tale 'hissssss' of the C02 escaping. "Gee that's funny, this is flat." Of course, it turns out the contents of the bottle was replaced with vodka.

As for Gov. Spitzer, I'd like to smack that sorry hypocritical look right off his face.

OMG.. your ex sounds like my ex.. LOLOLOL.- Did they live in Houston by chance? It's funny as I hardly ever drink, and I'd buy my little pint bottle of rum- which normally would last me forever.. Well, I'd go to put a little in my diet coke, and guess what? Come to find out I'm putting WATER with my coke.. Wasn't fun! :distress:- And yep.. you are SOOO right about that look on his face! I just feel badly for his wife and kids..

[HejiraNYC]

He's doing 'The Face' here. Bill Clinton also used to do 'The Face', especially when he was trying to look serious- like laying a wreath at some memorial or something. My ex-partner, when I'd find the liquor bottles hidden in the laundry room or in the back of the closet, also used to do 'The Face'.

I hate 'The Face'.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc297/jcastr01/artspitzerap.jpg

I mean, I'm sure Mrs. Spitzer is probably the nicest woman in the world and everything... but... well, can you blame the dude? :sorry: Yes, this sounds misogynistic, but when you're married to the highest politico in NY state, you do need to make a bit more of an effort. For chrissakes, woman, drag a comb through that rats nest!

And lest we forget, former NJ governor Jim McGreevey giving more of 'The Face':

http://sinequanon.spleenville.com/archives/images/mcgreevey.jpg

[DavidMn]

I thought this was already posted yesterday... LOL Just wondering WHY we have now 3 different threads for the SAME THING? :wavey::laugh:I actually posted the first thing about this last night. And for the record, I plan on filing mulitple lawsuits against those who are out to get me and bruise my ego. At least all the money I'll get with soothe some of that........:lol::lol::)

[Steviefan49]

I actually posted the first thing about this last night. And for the record, I plan on filing mulitple lawsuits against those who are out to get me and bruise my ego. At least all the money I'll get with soothe some of that........:lol::lol::)

Awwww.. Sorry David.. LOL.. Paula actually posted about this yesterday afternoon..and then I came on and saw your thread and the other thread, and was like.. 'WTF"? LOL.. Nothing personal, I promise.. :laugh::xoxo:- You have my word, I'm not at all out to get anyone, including you! LOL :lol:

[SuzeQuze]

He's doing 'The Face' here. Bill Clinton also used to do 'The Face', especially when he was trying to look serious- like laying a wreath at some memorial or something. My ex-partner, when I'd find the liquor bottles hidden in the laundry room or in the back of the closet, also used to do 'The Face'.

I hate 'The Face'.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc297/jcastr01/artspitzerap.jpg

You mean fake remorse which is really just "****, I got caught."?

[SuzeQuze]

I mean, I'm sure Mrs. Spitzer is probably the nicest woman in the world and everything... but... well, can you blame the dude? :sorry: Yes, this sounds misogynistic, but when you're married to the highest politico in NY state, you do need to make a bit more of an effort. For chrissakes, woman, drag a comb through that rats nest!



Dude, that woman would just as soon castrate him as stand next to him. She's doing him a HUGE favor just standing there. He's lucky she showered.

[Steviefan49]

Dude, that woman would just as soon castrate him as stand next to him. She's doing him a HUGE favor just standing there. He's lucky she showered.

Amen on that note! If I were her, I would have been out that back door so fast, it would have made his head swim!! And... taken the kids and dogs with me!:lol:

[petep9000]

You mean fake remorse which is really just "****, I got caught."?

Yeah, that one. I always feel so bad for the wives when this happens. Like Mcgreavy, or Senator Craig's wives, or Pat Nixon, or Kathy Lee Gifford. The wife has to stand there and be stoic, it must be so humiliating.

[Steviefan49]

Yeah, that one. I always feel so bad for the wives when this happens. Like Mcgreavy, or Senator Craig's wives, or Pat Nixon, or Kathy Lee Gifford. The wife has to stand there and be stoic, it must be so humiliating.

I think it must be hard for the wives' of any of these people just to stand there period.. How bad do they feel, you know? :cool:

[SuzeQuze]

Yeah, that one. I always feel so bad for the wives when this happens. Like Mcgreavy, or Senator Craig's wives, or Pat Nixon, or Kathy Lee Gifford. The wife has to stand there and be stoic, it must be so humiliating.

Totally, they must do it for the kids. There's no other reason I can think that would motivate them to want to help the one who betrayed them. Maybe their husbands paid them. :lol:

Amen on that note! If I were her, I would have been out that back door so fast, it would have made his head swim!! And... taken the kids and dogs with me!

Hell yeah to that, amen sista friend! :laugh:

[HejiraNYC]

Amen on that note! If I were her, I would have been out that back door so fast, it would have made his head swim!! And... taken the kids and dogs with me!:lol:

See, if I was in that situation, I would have gone all out to look fierce, which would only underscore the point that Mr. Spitzer was an idiot for gambling his career away when he had such a hot piece of a$$ at home. Instead, by looking so schlubby, although the public is outwardly outraged, lots of married men were probably thinking, "dude, I totally understand why you did this."

[Steviefan49]

See, if I was in that situation, I would have gone all out to look fierce, which would only underscore the point that Mr. Spitzer was an idiot for gambling his career away when he had such a hot piece of a$$ at home. Instead, by looking so schlubby, although the public is outwardly outraged, lots of married men were probably thinking, "dude, I totally understand why you did this."

I still don't see how. IMO, to me she doesn't look bad, at all. And she's got a "cheating" husband who is in the limelight! No matter how you look at it, he's holding a pretty high-ranking office, and even though it's a "known fact" that a lot of men in politics cheat, the "wives" are all still CHEATED on, which is wrong, no matter how you slice it! :confused:

[SuzeQuze]

See, if I was in that situation, I would have gone all out to look fierce, which would only underscore the point that Mr. Spitzer was an idiot for gambling his career away when he had such a hot piece of a$$ at home. Instead, by looking so schlubby, although the public is outwardly outraged, lots of married men were probably thinking, "dude, I totally understand why you did this."

I have less of a problem with him doing what he did than I have with how he tried to pass himself off. Maybe he isn't attracted to his wife who knows. To me she looks like she hasn't gotten any sleep and like she wants to vomit. She doesn't look bad, just battered. Married men that thought that are pigs. If you're not happy move on, don't waste $12,000 of the family's money on a whore. And take a look at him with his awful haircut and dye job. Double standard anyone?

[HejiraNYC]

I still don't see how. IMO, to me she doesn't look bad, at all. And she's got a "cheating" husband who is in the limelight! No matter how you look at it, he's holding a pretty high-ranking office, and even though it's a "known fact" that a lot of men in politics cheat, the "wives" are all still CHEATED on, which is wrong, no matter how you slice it! :confused:

Sure, she was totally disrespected and humuliated. But as the old saying goes, even bad publicity is better than no publicity at all. Now that her face has been plastered onto the cover of every magazine and newspaper around the world, she has instantly become immortalized. She can now go off, dump the loser, write a book, appear on Oprah and become the posterchild for jilted wives everywhere. It's just a shame that she didn't have a proper stylist for the press conference (the video of the press conference was much less flattering than the photo).

Larry Craig giving 'the face':

http://thebosh.com/upload/2007/08/29/larry_craig_its_that_he_denied_not_whats_implied/larry%20craig%20remorseful%20liar.jpg

[HejiraNYC]

...and Clinton

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/20070413clinton.jpg

[Steviefan49]

I have less of a problem with him doing what he did than I have with how he tried to pass himself off. Maybe he isn't attracted to his wife who knows. To me she looks like she hasn't gotten any sleep and like she wants to vomit. She doesn't look bad, just battered. Married men that thought that are pigs. If you're not happy move on, don't waste $12,000 of the family's money on a whore. And take a look at him with his awful haircut and dye job. Double standard anyone?

I gotta give you the high-five on this one girlfriend! lol:xoxo: And SOOO say ditto.. I think she's seen enough credit card bills from that - what was it, Imperial Palace place? LOL :laugh:- It's enough to make anyone's wife wanna puke!

[Steviefan49]

Sure, she was totally disrespected and humuliated. But as the old saying goes, even bad publicity is better than no publicity at all. Now that her face has been plastered onto the cover of every magazine and newspaper around the world, she has instantly become immortalized. She can now go off, dump the loser, write a book, appear on Oprah and become the posterchild for jilted wives everywhere. It's just a shame that she didn't have a proper stylist for the press conference (the video of the press conference was much less flattering than the photo).

Larry Craig giving 'the face':

http://thebosh.com/upload/2007/08/29/larry_craig_its_that_he_denied_not_whats_implied/larry%20craig%20remorseful%20liar.jpg

Well now, she'll have that opportunity, and MORE POWER to her! LOL :blob2::laugh:

[carrie721]

I mean, I'm sure Mrs. Spitzer is probably the nicest woman in the world and everything... but... well, can you blame the dude? :sorry: Yes, this sounds misogynistic, but when you're married to the highest politico in NY state, you do need to make a bit more of an effort. For chrissakes, woman, drag a comb through that rats nest!

that doesn't sound misogynistic, it sounds f*cking dumb.

I actually posted the first thing about this last night. And for the record, I plan on filing mulitple lawsuits against those who are out to get me and bruise my ego. At least all the money I'll get with soothe some of that........:lol::lol::)

try again. there were already 2 threads about this when you started yours last night.

[HejiraNYC]

that doesn't sound misogynistic, it sounds f*cking dumb.



The truth hurts, doesn't it?

[carrie721]

The truth hurts, doesn't it?

so the truth according to you (based on your "can you blame the dude?" comment) is that if a woman doesn't look fierce enough, she can expect her fugly man to cheat?

[petep9000]

Larry Craig giving 'the face':

http://thebosh.com/upload/2007/08/29/larry_craig_its_that_he_denied_not_whats_implied/larry%20craig%20remorseful%20liar.jpg

'The Face' is now the big office joke today here. I think it's the most phony, ridiculous I'm-so-sorry-I-got-caught-but-God-bless-America expression. As I said, I want to pull out my wupp-ass hand on him.

Thank God we have no examples of Stevie exhibiting 'The Face'.

[petep9000]

'The Face' is now the big office joke today here.

Thank God we have no examples of Stevie exhibiting 'The Face'.

Christine doesn't do 'The Face'. But, she does have a lovely equilateral triangle.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc297/jcastr01/christine.jpg

[strandinthewind]

See, if I was in that situation, I would have gone all out to look fierce, which would only underscore the point that Mr. Spitzer was an idiot for gambling his career away when he had such a hot piece of a$$ at home. Instead, by looking so schlubby, although the public is outwardly outraged, lots of married men were probably thinking, "dude, I totally understand why you did this."

:laugh:

VERY few if any women on this board, and perhaps in reality, will get that argument. And, even if they may think it, but the bonds of the Sisterhood of the Vag. prevent them for saying it. Just like all they can focus on is the betrayal. I get that she was betrayed and that was awful, etc. But, have some self-respect woman :nod:

Meanwhile, I submit every staight guy on this board gets it as do most of the gays.

[SuzeQuze]

:laugh:

VERY few if any women on this board, and perhaps in reality, will get that argument. And, even if they may think it, but the bonds of the Sisterhood of the Vag. prevent them for saying it. Just like all they can focus on is the betrayal. I get that she was betrayed and that was awful, etc. But, have some self-respect woman :nod:

Meanwhile, I submit every staight guy on this board gets it as do most of the gays.

Oh brother. :rolleyes:

On edit, we get it and we think it's bullsh*t.

[strandinthewind]

I have less of a problem with him doing what he did than I have with how he tried to pass himself off. Maybe he isn't attracted to his wife who knows. To me she looks like she hasn't gotten any sleep and like she wants to vomit. She doesn't look bad, just battered. Married men that thought that are pigs. If you're not happy move on, don't waste $12,000 of the family's money on a whore. And take a look at him with his awful haircut and dye job. Double standard anyone?

For all we know - she could have cheated as well. But, I agree, he passed himself off as someone who fights crime and he specifically targeted whorehouses and hooker rings on more than one occasion.

I think the NY Times, as usual, put it very well:

March 11, 2008
Editorial
Mr. Spitzer’s ‘Private Matter’
New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer could not have been more wrong in his brief public appearance after the world learned that he was suspected of patronizing a prostitution ring. He did not just betray his family in a private matter. He betrayed the public, and it is hard to see how he will recover from this mess and go on to lead the reformist agenda on which he was elected to office.

With his ashen-faced wife at his side, the governor apologized and said his behavior “violates my obligation to my family and violates my or any sense of right or wrong.” He was right about his violations, but he was, sadly, wrong when he asserted that politics is only about “big ideas” and not individuals. His short, arrogant statement simply was not enough, not from the Sheriff of Wall Street, not from the self-appointed Mr. Clean who went to Albany promising a new and better day.

It is likely that every aspect of Mr. Spitzer’s other life as Client 9 for the Emperor’s Club V.I.P. — as he has been identified by law enforcement officials — every text message and other secretive communication will be made public. Any politician would have a full-time job just dealing with such revelations. There have been elected officials, over the years, who have survived scandals of this sort. But for Mr. Spitzer, who runs a large and complex state, the burden is especially heavy to show that he has not lost the credibility to push for change, a sound budget and good government, as he promised so confidently a year ago.

While few clients of prostitutes face criminal charges, law-enforcement affidavits raise at least the possibility of criminal charges based on transporting a woman across state lines for prostitution. Mr. Spitzer’s own record of prosecuting such cases gives him scant breathing room. As state attorney general, he prosecuted prostitution rings with enthusiasm — pointing out that they are often involved in human trafficking, drug trafficking and money laundering. In 2004 on Staten Island, Mr. Spitzer was vehement in his outrage over 16 people arrested in a high-end prostitution ring.

A further tragedy here, beyond the personal one of the Spitzer family and the damage he has done to the reform cause, is that Mr. Spitzer’s targets are now relishing their tormentor’s torment. Those on Wall Street who fumed at having to make their world fairer for ordinary shareholders can now chortle with satisfaction in their private enclaves. For New York Republicans, who have blocked some of the most important reforms in Albany, it is hard to imagine the private glee — especially at a moment when they are fighting desperately to hold their majority in the State Senate.

Sadly, this was not the first time that Mr. Spitzer has been caught up in his own arrogance. For all his promise as governor, Mr. Spitzer’s first year was unnecessarily rocky and full of the kinds of mistakes that come as much from hubris as from being new on the job. After succeeding with a few reforms, the governor’s ill-fated attempts to smear his Republican opponent lost him months of progress. Only recently had he seemed to be tempering his abrasive style.

Mr. Spitzer did not seem to understand on Monday what he owed the public — a strong argument for why he should be trusted again. The longer he hesitates, it becomes a harder case to make.

______________________________________________________

In the end, I could care a less about hiring a hooker. I do not think that is a bad or wrong thing to do. It is his blatant hypocrisy in his public life. So, he should resign.

[mikeschmike]

Meanwhile, I submit every staight guy on this board gets it as do most of the gays.


Speak for yourself, Suzanne. :distress:

[strandinthewind]

so the truth according to you (based on your "can you blame the dude?" comment) is that if a woman doesn't look fierce enough, she can expect her fugly man to cheat?

You totally, as expected, miss his point :laugh: :rolleyes:

LONG LIVE THE SISTERHOOD OF THE VAG. :wavey:

[SuzeQuze]

I gotta give you the high-five on this one girlfriend! lol:xoxo: And SOOO say ditto.. I think she's seen enough credit card bills from that - what was it, Imperial Palace place? LOL :laugh:- It's enough to make anyone's wife wanna puke!

Hi five back. And I did the math wrong, it was $16k he wasted, 4g/hr for 4 hrs. Asshole.

[strandinthewind]

Speak for yourself, Suzanne. :distress:

Hey now - draw it mild :p

Come on - if she had hauled up there looked like a model - you would not have thought, even if just a little bit, that if you had that hot a$$ at home, you would have never strayed.

I'll even go one further, most men stray because the wife lets herself go and some young, hot thing catches his eye. It sucks, but it is the way of the world. Men are pigs, what can I say :shrug:

[SuzeQuze]

Hey now - draw it mild :p

Come on - if she had hauled up there looked like a model - you would not have thought, even if just a little bit, that if you had that hot a$$ at home, you would have never strayed.

I'll even go one further, most men stray because the wife lets herself go and some young, hot thing catches his eye. It sucks, but it is the way of the world. Men are pigs, what can I say :shrug:

:lol: Thanks for that. I don't know if that's necessarily why they stray though. I'm sure some do, and honestly I can't blame a man for being turned off if someone's let themselves go completely. But some softening and wrinkling is going to happen over time. If you're that superficial don't get married.

I think it's more about men being afraid of their own aging and wanting someone to make them feel young and vibrant again. Or just being mistaken in thinking they are unhappy because of their wife when the reality is they're unhappy because they're an idiot. ;)

In the governor's case he may have had some fetish he couldn't ask his wife to do. I thought I heard he asked for something that might seem too dangerous or something.

[darklinensuit]

I think it's more about men being afraid of their own aging and wanting someone to make them feel young and vibrant again. Or just being mistaken in thinking they are unhappy because of their wife when the reality is they're unhappy because they're an idiot. ;)



Are you quoting Olympia Dukakis in Moonstruck?
(Sorry. Everything & everybody remind me of a movie.)

- Jake

[Steviefan49]

Hi five back. And I did the math wrong, it was $16k he wasted, 4g/hr for 4 hrs. Asshole.

Geez... as if it wasn't bad enough at $12k..:rolleyes: :laugh: And yes.. he's FUGLY to boot!:laugh:

[strandinthewind]

. . . If you're that superficial don't get married.

There would be few marriages :shrug:

I think it's more about men being afraid of their own aging and wanting someone to make them feel young and vibrant again. Or just being mistaken in thinking they are unhappy because of their wife when the reality is they're unhappy because they're an idiot. ;)

Striaight from "Moonstuck" -- "And remember, No matter what you're gonna do you gonna die, just like everybody else!" :nod:

In the governor's case he may have had some fetish he couldn't ask his wife to do. I thought I heard he asked for something that might seem too dangerous or something.

BURN ME WITH HOT COFFEE GRINDS :eek:

[mikeschmike]

Hey now - draw it mild :p

Come on - if she had hauled up there looked like a model - you would not have thought, even if just a little bit, that if you had that hot a$$ at home, you would have never strayed.

I'll even go one further, most men stray because the wife lets herself go and some young, hot thing catches his eye. It sucks, but it is the way of the world. Men are pigs, what can I say :shrug:

Seems a little messed up that people are expecting this woman to look model perfect. She found out that her husband, the governor, was involved in a high profile prostitution ring. She also had to appear at a press conference the same day she found out this little niblet of information. Maybe I'm just a slob, but my first thought wouldn't be to slap on some Bare Minerals for the cameras.

It's well documented that men are pigs when it comes to sexual attraction. Whether or not to act on that urge is what gets them into trouble.

[strandinthewind]

Are you quoting Olympia Dukakis in Moonstruck?
(Sorry. Everything & everybody remind me of a movie.)

- Jake

I was thinking the same thing - we posted at the same time!

[SuzeQuze]

Are you quoting Olympia Dukakis in Moonstruck?
(Sorry. Everything & everybody remind me of a movie.)

- Jake

:lol: Actually no. Is that close to a line in the movie? :D

[Steviefan49]

Hey now - draw it mild :p

Come on - if she had hauled up there looked like a model - you would not have thought, even if just a little bit, that if you had that hot a$$ at home, you would have never strayed.

I'll even go one further, most men stray because the wife lets herself go and some young, hot thing catches his eye. It sucks, but it is the way of the world. Men are pigs, what can I say :shrug:

I gotta beg to differ on this one... Are you telling us that Cristy Brinkley looked like some sorta dog when Billy Joel cheated on HER??? Get real honey! LOLOLOL :laugh: Not a valid statement in the least..

[SuzeQuze]

Seems a little messed up that people are expecting this woman to look model perfect. She found out that her husband, the governor, was involved in a high profile prostitution ring. She also had to appear at a press conference the same day she found out this little niblet of information. Maybe I'm just a slob, but my first thought wouldn't be to slap on some Bare Minerals for the cameras.

It's well documented that men are pigs when it comes to sexual attraction. Whether or not to act on that urge is what gets them into trouble.

I <3 you! :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Seems a little messed up that people are expecting this woman to look model perfect. She found out that her husband, the governor, was involved in a high profile prostitution ring. She also had to appear at a press conference the same day she found out this little niblet of information. Maybe I'm just a slob, but my first thought wouldn't be to slap on some Bare Minerals for the cameras.

It's well documented that men are pigs when it comes to sexual attraction. Whether or not to act on that urge is what gets them into trouble.

I get that she apparently is licking her wounds, so to speak. I just think that hauling out looking like shiitte is far worse than hauling out looking fierce. Then, she should dump him if she knows she can't forgive him.

Also, maybe 1% of the people I know who have had spouses cheat can honestly say they did not know, much less suspect :shrug:

[Steviefan49]

Seems a little messed up that people are expecting this woman to look model perfect. She found out that her husband, the governor, was involved in a high profile prostitution ring. She also had to appear at a press conference the same day she found out this little niblet of information. Maybe I'm just a slob, but my first thought wouldn't be to slap on some Bare Minerals for the cameras.

It's well documented that men are pigs when it comes to sexual attraction. Whether or not to act on that urge is what gets them into trouble.

:xoxo: THANK you Mike! LOL :laugh:

[Steviefan49]

I <3 you! :wavey:

I think we just posted that in at the same time! I love Mike too! LOL :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

I gotta beg to differ on this one... Are you telling us that Cristy Brinkley looked like some sorta dog when Billy Joel cheated on HER??? Get real honey! LOLOLOL :laugh: Not a valid statement in the least..

No, she looked hot - and I can assure you many if not most males in this country were thinking, "Man, if I was hitting that - I would never stray" - that is my point. My point is not what you said.

Also, I can assure you many if not most women looked at Billy Joel and thought he was lucky to get someone as good looking as CB and he was an idiot for looking elsewhere, which is a slight variation of the point.

Again, women are loathe to admit this point, which I find hysterical.

[JazmenFlowers]

Seems a little messed up that people are expecting this woman to look model perfect. She found out that her husband, the governor, was involved in a high profile prostitution ring. She also had to appear at a press conference the same day she found out this little niblet of information. Maybe I'm just a slob, but my first thought wouldn't be to slap on some Bare Minerals for the cameras.

It's well documented that men are pigs when it comes to sexual attraction. Whether or not to act on that urge is what gets them into trouble.
agreed.

to me it just looked like she'd been crying. I'm sure she's had better days.

I do believe that some people can not control themselves when it comes to sex. they have an addiction that requires attention. some people, on the other hand, are just **** for brains.

[strandinthewind]

agreed.

to me it just looked like she'd been crying. I'm sure she's had better days.

I do believe that some people can not control themselves when it comes to sex. they have an addiction that requires attention. some people, on the other hand, are just **** for brains.

Can you honestly tell me you would have hauled out there looked as disheveled as that :eek: Me thinks you'd have looked fierce and ready to cut a bitch. But, I could be wrong :laugh:

[JazmenFlowers]

Can you honestly tell me you would have hauled out there looked as disheveled as that :eek: Me thinks you'd have looked fierce. But, I could be wrong :laugh:
oh no honey. as they say, Covergirl don't cover boy...I'd have my MAC in tow. innate (sp?) ferocity comes in levels. she's obviously a 2. and I'm, well, off the scales.

I'd look fierce on the news as they hauled my ass to jail for killing him.

[strandinthewind]

oh no honey. as they say, Covergirl don't cover boy...I'd have my MAC in tow. innate (sp?) ferocity comes in levels. she's obviously a 2. and I'm, well, off the scales.

I'd look fierce on the news as they hauled my ass to jail for killing him.

I'd LOVE to represent you on that one :laugh:

[carrie721]

:laugh:

VERY few if any women on this board, and perhaps in reality, will get that argument. And, even if they may think it, but the bonds of the Sisterhood of the Vag. prevent them for saying it. Just like all they can focus on is the betrayal. I get that she was betrayed and that was awful, etc. But, have some self-respect woman :nod:

Meanwhile, I submit every staight guy on this board gets it as do most of the gays.

oh strand, just as there is no real LGBT community, there is no sisterhood of the vadge. i submit any "sisterhood" among women is purely superficial and underneath there is a culture of competition and backstabbing. in this regard women have a lot to learn from men, who compete for hegemony overtly and largely without personal feelings getting tangled in the mess. this pervasive notion of a one-for-all-and-all-for-one attitude in female culture is inaccurate and, i think, harmful.

[strandinthewind]

^^^

Rubbish (mostly) -- if there is one thing that unites the Vadgsters ( :cool: ) it is the group attack of a straying man and the unwillingness to hear a word against the poor wife :nod:

[carrie721]

^^^

Rubbish (mostly) -- if there is one thing that unites the Vadgsters ( :cool: ) it is the group attack of a straying man and the unwillingness to hear a word against the poor wife :nod:

i think you're projecting an anti-man attitude onto my posts. there can be many reasons ES betrayed his wife; we'll probably never know the truth of the situation. what i find ridiculous is saying that her appearance at what must have been a very humiliating public function justifies or rationalizes it.

[Steviefan49]

^^^

Rubbish (mostly) -- if there is one thing that unites the Vadgsters ( :cool: ) it is the group attack of a straying man and the unwillingness to hear a word against the poor wife :nod:


Good Lord, this is starting to sound like the 7W thread! SHEESH:rolleyes::laugh:

[strandinthewind]

i think you're projecting an anti-man attitude onto my posts. there can be many reasons ES betrayed his wife; we'll probably never know the truth of the situation. what i find ridiculous is saying that her appearance at what must have been a very humiliating public function justifies or rationalizes it.

I never said that her losing her looks caused him to cheat. I said that in general, that is what motivates some if not mnost men to look elsewhere.

Moreover, you are still missing the point, which is, I suppose, one of revenge. IF she hauled out looking great, it would have been revenge. Her looking the way she did in that photo has nothing IMO to do with why he strayed because I think she, while no longer young, is still a very attractive woman with a nice figure.

[petep9000]

I seem to recall the night that The Prince and Princess of Wales were divorced, Diana went out that evening to a benefit in a skin-tight, sensational off the shoulder 'little black dress', dripping in pearls and sapphires and with a gorgeous variation on her normal haircut. Revenge was hers that night. Anyone remember that 'liberation' outfit?

As Faye Dunaway said in 'Mommie Dearest': "It's a sword that cuts both ways..."

[carrie721]

I never said that her losing her looks caused him to cheat. I said that in general, that is what motivates some if not mnost men to look elsewhere.

Moreover, you are still missing the point, which is, I suppose, one of revenge. IF she hauled out looking great, it would have been revenge. Her looking the way she did in that photo has nothing IMO to do with why he strayed because I think she, while no longer young, is still a very attractive woman with a nice figure.

i was commenting on hejira's original post - "can you blame the dude?" which rationalized ES's cheating based on her appearance. you seemed to support that statement.

i get the revenge thing. but as jazzy noted, she may just have a low inherent fierceness quotient :cool:

and finally, just to clarify my position, i think the misandry so often found in current discourse tiresome and pernicious.

[strandinthewind]

I seem to recall the night that The Prince and Princess of Wales were divorced, Diana went out that evening to a benefit in a skin-tight, sensational off the shoulder 'little black dress', dripping in pearls and sapphires and with a gorgeous variation on her normal haircut. Revenge was hers that night. Anyone remember that 'liberation' outfit?

As Faye Dunaway said in 'Mommie Dearest': "It's a sword that cuts both ways..."

and to great fanfare from the chicks (dare I sat the Vagsters :eek: ) around here - they lauded Diana's "getting" of the bastard Charles :shrug:

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

If there were problems, try talking to one another, go to counseling...I don't give a crap if she wasn't "giving him what he needed" or whatever. Rationalize it all you want. There's no excuse for cheating in a marriage. NONE.

[strandinthewind]

. . . i think the misandry so often found in current discourse tiresome and pernicious.

You may have your view, but that does not negate that the Vadgsters unite when it comes to a cheating man :p

[carrie721]

You may have your view, but that does not negate that the Vadgsters unite when it comes to a cheating man :p

i still maintain that the sisterhood of the vadgesters ( :laugh: ) is a superficial one and pretty much meaningless :p

[strandinthewind]

^^^

But, it is hysterical :]

[GODDESS6]

What a douche. :rolleyes:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/10/spitzer/index.html

i feel mortified for his poor wife, she looked miserable at his press conference~ i would hang him by his balls if i were her~

[carrie721]

^^^

But, it is hysterical :]

on one level. but it's also harmful.

[strandinthewind]

on one level. but it's also harmful.

I disagree that women do not band together to attack a cheating male. I get that it is not all women out there. But, around here, it is the truth based on what I have seen.

[carrie721]

I disagree that women to not band together to attack a cheating male. I get that it is not all women out there. But, around here, it is the truth based on what I have seen.

maybe we're talking about two different things. that does happen but i don't think there is some universal sisterhood that binds all women together in common purpose and mutual goodwill. you may not think that exists - but many, many people do.

[SuzeQuze]

Women are social beings and have empathy for a woman who's been hurt. It's a case of if someone did that to me how would I feel? And then we get mad and go after the bastard. So what? He sucks and he deserves it.

[strandinthewind]

maybe we're talking about two different things. that does happen but i don't think there is some universal sisterhood that binds all women together in common purpose and mutual goodwill. you may not think that exists - but many, many people do.

A cheating man comes close to establishing that bond, no matter how superficial, fake, or fleeting.

[carrie721]

Women are social beings and have empathy for a woman who's been hurt. It's a case of if someone did that to me how would I feel? And then we get mad and go after the bastard. So what? He sucks and he deserves it.

the problem with that is we only know one side of the story. mrs. spitzer may have done any number of things to participate in the disintegration of her marriage.

[carrie721]

A cheating man comes close to establishing that bond, no matter how superficial, fake, or fleeting.

well, with those qualifiers i can't disagree :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

In the governor's case he may have had some fetish he couldn't ask his wife to do. I thought I heard he asked for something that might seem too dangerous or something.

That's what I thought too. The indictment mentions that Client 9 wanted to do something that wasn't "safe". I just hope he hasn't exposed his wife to anything.

[skcin]

All I know is that MY thread was posted first. :cool: What what?

[carrie721]

All I know is that MY thread was posted first. :cool: What what?

raise da roof, big p.

[bretonbanquet]

Hey now - draw it mild :p

Come on - if she had hauled up there looked like a model - you would not have thought, even if just a little bit, that if you had that hot a$$ at home, you would have never strayed.

I'll even go one further, most men stray because the wife lets herself go and some young, hot thing catches his eye. It sucks, but it is the way of the world. Men are pigs, what can I say :shrug:

Is that really what you think? Some guys cheat and some don't. The ones that do, just do. If his wife is past her best, it's just a handy excuse. Otherwise all men would do it when their wives get older and lose their looks, and no hot woman would ever get cheated. It's got nothing at all to do with the woman being cheated on, or any supposed thing she might have done or not done. It's all about having something inside a guy that says it's okay to cheat. If that thing is in him, he'll cheat at some point if he gets the chance. If it's not in him, he just won't do it, however many chances he gets. It might be the same for women who cheat, but I don't know enough about that :shrug:

[skcin]

Here's the wife, Silda, less than 2 months ago. Yeah, what a hag, huh? :rolleyes: It's a damn shame she let herself go like that when it's obvious that her husband has done his best to look good for her.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/skcin/Misc/silda.jpg

[strandinthewind]

Is that really what you think? Some guys cheat and some don't. The ones that do, just do. If his wife is past her best, it's just a handy excuse. Otherwise all men would do it when their wives get older and lose their looks, and no hot woman would ever get cheated. It's got nothing at all to do with the woman being cheated on, or any supposed thing she might have done or not done. It's all about having something inside a guy that says it's okay to cheat. If that thing is in him, he'll cheat at some point if he gets the chance. If it's not in him, he just won't do it, however many chances he gets. It might be the same for women who cheat, but I don't know enough about that :shrug:

No - I do not think all men cheat. I do not think I said that :shrug: I do think that just about every guy I know talks about running a$$ when given the chance and if you get them in a strip joint, they are in heaven.

But, I think the ones that do are looking for something no longer at home. I think that is awful, but I recorgnize it happens alot in this world.

On the other side, I often wonder why women cheat. I submit it usually is not that the husband has let himself go. I think that usually it is because the husband is abusive, uncaring, etc.

[carrie721]

You totally, as expected, miss his point :laugh: :rolleyes:

LONG LIVE THE SISTERHOOD OF THE VAG. :wavey:

oh man, i don't know whether i'm glad or disappointed i missed this the first time around.

screw you, sugarbaker :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

oh man, i don't know whether i'm glad or disappointed i missed this the first time around.

screw you, sugarbaker :wavey:

I have repeatedly told you that your strap on does not interest me :p

:angel::angel::angel:

[carrie721]

I have repeatedly told you that your strap on does not interest me :p

:angel::angel::angel:

what if i get a smaller one, just for you?

:angel:

[bretonbanquet]

No - I do not think all men cheat. I do not think I said that :shrug: I do think that just about every guy I know talks about running a$$ when given the chance and if you get them in a strip joint, they are in heaven.

But, I think the ones that do are looking for something no longer at home. I think that is awful, but I recorgnize it happens alot in this world.

On the other side, I often wonder why women cheat. I submit it usually is not that the husband has let himself go. I think that usually it is because the husband is abusive, uncaring, etc.

No, you didn't say that, and I never said you did :shrug: ...And that speaks volumes for the guys you know.

Your second para may be true, but it's not the reason they cheat. It's just a catalyst. They were always going to cheat and they just found the required motivation. Plenty of other guys find that they've lost something at home as time goes by, but they don't feel driven to screw someone else.

I don't agree with your last point either.

[strandinthewind]

what if i get a smaller one, just for you?

:angel:

The smaller ones don't come with a kick start.

[strandinthewind]

. . . And that speaks volumes for the guys you know . . . .

Actually, I know people from just about every aspect of life. But, let's take a poll - how many women on here think their guys don't talk about running a$$ with their guy friends?

Then again, maybe things are different across the pond. I doubt it though.

[carrie721]

The smaller ones don't come with a kick start.

who's more disappointed, me or you?

[strandinthewind]

who's more disappointed, me or you?

Well, it's your's :shrug:

[bretonbanquet]

Actually, I know people from just about every aspect of life. But, let's take a poll - how many women on here think their guys don't talk about running a$$ with their guy friends?

Then again, maybe things are different across the pond. I doubt it though.

Not so different probably.. but I don't talk about it with my friends :shrug: Largely because it's a tedious thing to talk about. How many of my close friends have cheated on their girlfriends? One, that I know of, and his gf was hot :shrug:

[carrie721]

Well, it's your's :shrug:

so i got "suzanne" engraved on it for nothing? :mad:

[strandinthewind]

so i got "suzanne" engraved on it for nothing? :mad:

Let's not bring up the hoes you've dated and that "engraving" likely is just a water resistant marker :eek:

:p

[Steviefan49]

Here's the wife, Silda, less than 2 months ago. Yeah, what a hag, huh? :rolleyes: It's a damn shame she let herself go like that when it's obvious that her husband has done his best to look good for her.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/skcin/Misc/silda.jpg

Boy.. I tell ya.. she really did let herself go.. And here he's tried SOOO hard to be handsome for her..:] :thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

Boy.. I tell ya.. she really did let herself go.. And here he's tried SOOO hard to be handsome for her..:] :thumbsup:

I agree she looks good there and I said earlier that she is a nice looking woman. So, as I said earlier, I do not think that ES cheated on her because she let herself go as many men do, which is sad IMO.

When I refered to her looking like shiitte, I refered only to the pics of her on the podium when he gave his "I HAVE SINNED" speech. Again, I think it would have served her better to have looked great. And, this is no simpleton who knows nothing about the media. She has been in the public spotlight for at least a decade now.

I also am sorry for her. I think the facts as we know then suggest she was wronged. My heart goes out to her.

[Steviefan49]

I agree she looks good there and I said earlier that she is a nice looking woman. So, as I said earlier, I do not think that ES cheated on her because she let herself go as many men do, which is sad IMO.

When I refered to her looking like shiitte, I refered only to the pics of her on the podium when he gave his "I HAVE SINNED" speech. Again, I think it would have served her better to have looked great. And, this is no simpleton who knows nothing about the media. She has been in the public spotlight for at least a decade now.

I also am sorry for her. I think the facts as we know then suggest she was wronged. My heart goes out to her.

Not to get anything "going" again here.. but I have just one question for you, regarding those above statements you made..: If you were to find out that the person you've spent say- the last 15 years or so of your life with, who "supposedly" you share children/ and or your life with, pulls this crap, that ES pulled on his poor wife, and it all comes out through a "wire" that was on him in this scandal, and YOU then find out about it. How would you look and feel? Would you SLEEP the night before? Would you feel like having your make up done "just so" - like you're ready for a magazine photo shoot somewhere, KNOWING there were going to be tons of people there? Would you feel maybe like you want to throw up all over the place because your entire life/ world is being turned upside down?? Maybe considering all of this, you just may re-think those sayings.. LOL.. And it's all said out of kindness, as I'm not out to be vicious at all. I totally agree with the rest of what you said.. but that I just can't swallow.. ;)

[JWS]

Maybe Eliot can get appointed to Hillary's senate seat.

[Steviefan49]

Maybe Eliot can get appointed to Hillary's senate seat.

LOLOL.. I think the only "seat" he can get appointed to at this time, is a toilet seat!:laugh::lol:

[strandinthewind]

Not to get anything "going" again here.. but I have just one question for you, regarding those above statements you made..: If you were to find out that the person you've spent say- the last 15 years or so of your life with, who "supposedly" you share children/ and or your life with, pulls this crap, that ES pulled on his poor wife, and it all comes out through a "wire" that was on him in this scandal, and YOU then find out about it. How would you look and feel? Would you SLEEP the night before? Would you feel like having your make up done "just so" - like you're ready for a magazine photo shoot somewhere, KNOWING there were going to be tons of people there? Would you feel maybe like you want to throw up all over the place because your entire life/ world is being turned upside down?? Maybe considering all of this, you just may re-think those sayings.. LOL.. And it's all said out of kindness, as I'm not out to be vicious at all. I totally agree with the rest of what you said.. but that I just can't swallow.. ;)

I would look great for it if for no other reason than I am vain ;)

And, this woman has been in politics and, therefore, aware of the cameras and how to manipulate them for a very, very long time. I also highly doubt she does her own make up for a press conference, though it looks like she did that day.

Note - I am not saying it would have been easy for her. I am just saying it would have portrayed her in a better light.

Also, without further evidence, I really do not think she did not suspect or perhaps know something. I mean the latest reports state that he spent likely $40,000+ on this. How could she not notice that :shrug: But, who knows and I certainly was not there.

[JWS]

LOLOL.. I think the only "seat" he can get appointed to at this time, is a toilet seat!:laugh::lol:

No seriously. It's a long-shot, but hypothetically, when ES resigns as Governor, the Lt Governor takes over. If Hillary wins in November, her NY senate seat will be vacated. The new Governor (also a Dem) could appoint ES for the duration of Hillary's senate term....by which time he will be rehabilitated.

[strandinthewind]

OK - this is fabulous is its craziness :laugh: Also, I LOVE the bolded part :cool:

'Hollywood Madam' Heidi Fleiss: Client 9 Is an Arrogant Jerk
Tuesday , March 11, 2008

By Sara Bonisteel


ADVERTISEMENT
She's American, petite, very pretty, brunette, 5-foot-5 and 105 pounds.

That's about all that's known about "Kristen," the prostitute who had a pre-Valentine's Day tryst with "Client 9," a man listed in an unsealed complaint and widely alleged to be New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer.

Former Hollywood Madam Heidi Fleiss thinks she knows the type.

"Every woman's a hooker, every woman's a hooker," Fleiss told FOXNews.com Tuesday. "Naturally, you meet someone, and you just gotta use your best judgment."

Fleiss, who once had her own stable of beauties catering to the sexual whims of Hollywood's high and mighty, said that in this situation, it's Client 9 who comes off as the jerk.

"Trust and believe, there's people much more successful than him with a lot more to lose that see call girls, and no one will ever rat them out because they treat call girls with respect and decency," Fleiss said.

"This guy seems like an arrogant pr---."

Client 9's rendezvous with Kristen at Washington D.C.'s Mayflower Hotel is detailed within a criminal complaint filed March 5 that lists Temeka Rachelle Lewis as one of four people alleged to have run Emperors Club VIP, an upscale escort service that charged thousands for the services of its "spokesmodels."

Click here to read the criminal complaint.

Yusill Scribner, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office, declined to comment when asked Tuesday whether charges would be forthcoming against Kristen or any of the other women identified by first names in the complaint.

Kristen shows she's a realist when it comes to her occupation as a high-class hooker.

"I am not a ... moron, you know what I mean," she said in a conversation intercepted by the FBI. "So maybe that's why girls maybe think they're difficult. ... That's what it is, because you're here for a [purpose]. Let's not get it twisted — I know what I do, you know."

Kristen made her comments on Feb. 14 after Lewis asked if Client 9 was difficult, according to the complaint.

"I don't think he's difficult," Kristen told her. "I mean it's just kind of like ... whatever ... I'm here for a purpose. I know what my purpose is."

Lewis seemed surprised by her answers.

"You look at it very uniquely, because ... no one ever says it that way," she said, asking Kristen if Client 9 "would ask you to do things that, like, you might not think were safe — you know — I mean that ... very basic things."

The call girl responded: "I have a way of dealing with that ... I'd be like listen dude, you really want the sex? ... You know what I mean."

Fleiss said comments like that reveal just what kind of person Client 9 really is.

"He seems like the type that was always trying to give all the pain or change the price or not use a condom," she said. "It's above the law."

Emperors Club VIP funneled funds through an account set up in the name of a dummy corporation, according to the complaint.

Fleiss, who now runs a laundromat in Pahrump, Nev., called Dirty Laundry, said it would have been easier if they had stuck to cash.

"I had two or three clients that paid with checks," she said. "Of course, one was Charlie Sheen. Everyone knows it because he paid by check. If he'd used cash no one would have ever found out."

The former Hollywood Madam, who at 27 had an empire netting $10 million a year, joined a chorus calling for Spitzer's resignation Tuesday.

"How can you be in office, when you're so misleading?" Fleiss said. "You have to adhere to different standards, first of all, when you're in office ... and he was very aggressive in pursuing prostitution rings, which we know in this instance seems like adults doing adult things."

She's not holding her breath on the possibility of criminal punishment.

"Nothing ever happens to the men, you know how it goes," Fleiss said. "Like I said, I don't recommend prostitution as a career at all, but I think it's absolutely set up wrong how the women are the only ones that get beat down. ..."

"There are so many different forms of prostitution," she added. "Politicians are the biggest whores on earth. They'll change their opinion for any amount of money, you know."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336909,00.html

[Steviefan49]

I would look great for it if for no other reason than I am vain ;)
And, this woman has been in politics and, therefore, aware of the cameras and how to manipulate them for a very, very long time. I also highly doubt she does her own make up for a press conference, though it looks like she did that day.

Note - I am not saying it would have been easy for her. I am just saying it would have portrayed her in a better light.

Also, without further evidence, I really do not think she did not suspect or perhaps know something. I mean the latest reports state that he spent likely $40,000+ on this. How could she not notice that :shrug: But, who knows and I certainly was not there.


Well honey.. I don't know about you - but as vain as I am too, you can know for a fact that I wouldn't have even THOUGHT of having my makeup done, or anything else, due to the fact that I would have probably been up all night long, (thinking, drinking, or Lord knows what) upon finding out THAT news! LOL.. That's a pretty big pill to swallow, no matter HOW naturally gorgeous I am.. LOL :p-(cough, cough) As Suze said in a earlier post, which I agree with her on- she was doing "GREAT" just to stand next to that hypocrital- sob without castrating him right then and there!

[JWS]

Well, if anybody is an authority on this subject it's Heidi Fleiss.:lol:

[Steviefan49]

OK - this is fabulous is its craziness :laugh: Also, I LOVE the bolded part :cool:

'Hollywood Madam' Heidi Fleiss: Client 9 Is an Arrogant Jerk
Tuesday , March 11, 2008

By Sara Bonisteel


ADVERTISEMENT
She's American, petite, very pretty, brunette, 5-foot-5 and 105 pounds.

That's about all that's known about "Kristen," the prostitute who had a pre-Valentine's Day tryst with "Client 9," a man listed in an unsealed complaint and widely alleged to be New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer.

Former Hollywood Madam Heidi Fleiss thinks she knows the type.

"Every woman's a hooker, every woman's a hooker," Fleiss told FOXNews.com Tuesday. "Naturally, you meet someone, and you just gotta use your best judgment."

Fleiss, who once had her own stable of beauties catering to the sexual whims of Hollywood's high and mighty, said that in this situation, it's Client 9 who comes off as the jerk.

"Trust and believe, there's people much more successful than him with a lot more to lose that see call girls, and no one will ever rat them out because they treat call girls with respect and decency," Fleiss said.

"This guy seems like an arrogant pr---."

Client 9's rendezvous with Kristen at Washington D.C.'s Mayflower Hotel is detailed within a criminal complaint filed March 5 that lists Temeka Rachelle Lewis as one of four people alleged to have run Emperors Club VIP, an upscale escort service that charged thousands for the services of its "spokesmodels."

Click here to read the criminal complaint.

Yusill Scribner, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office, declined to comment when asked Tuesday whether charges would be forthcoming against Kristen or any of the other women identified by first names in the complaint.

Kristen shows she's a realist when it comes to her occupation as a high-class hooker.

"I am not a ... moron, you know what I mean," she said in a conversation intercepted by the FBI. "So maybe that's why girls maybe think they're difficult. ... That's what it is, because you're here for a [purpose]. Let's not get it twisted — I know what I do, you know."

Kristen made her comments on Feb. 14 after Lewis asked if Client 9 was difficult, according to the complaint.

"I don't think he's difficult," Kristen told her. "I mean it's just kind of like ... whatever ... I'm here for a purpose. I know what my purpose is."

Lewis seemed surprised by her answers.

"You look at it very uniquely, because ... no one ever says it that way," she said, asking Kristen if Client 9 "would ask you to do things that, like, you might not think were safe — you know — I mean that ... very basic things."

The call girl responded: "I have a way of dealing with that ... I'd be like listen dude, you really want the sex? ... You know what I mean."

Fleiss said comments like that reveal just what kind of person Client 9 really is.

"He seems like the type that was always trying to give all the pain or change the price or not use a condom," she said. "It's above the law."

Emperors Club VIP funneled funds through an account set up in the name of a dummy corporation, according to the complaint.

Fleiss, who now runs a laundromat in Pahrump, Nev., called Dirty Laundry, said it would have been easier if they had stuck to cash.

"I had two or three clients that paid with checks," she said. "Of course, one was Charlie Sheen. Everyone knows it because he paid by check. If he'd used cash no one would have ever found out."

The former Hollywood Madam, who at 27 had an empire netting $10 million a year, joined a chorus calling for Spitzer's resignation Tuesday.

"How can you be in office, when you're so misleading?" Fleiss said. "You have to adhere to different standards, first of all, when you're in office ... and he was very aggressive in pursuing prostitution rings, which we know in this instance seems like adults doing adult things."

She's not holding her breath on the possibility of criminal punishment.

"Nothing ever happens to the men, you know how it goes," Fleiss said. "Like I said, I don't recommend prostitution as a career at all, but I think it's absolutely set up wrong how the women are the only ones that get beat down. ..."

"There are so many different forms of prostitution," she added. "Politicians are the biggest whores on earth. They'll change their opinion for any amount of money, you know."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336909,00.html

HOLY MOLY... Pot calling the kettle black anyone? :thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

HOLY MOLY... Pot calling the kettle black anyone? :thumbsup:

This just goes to show you - cash is always best in these situations :cool:

[Steviefan49]

Well, if anybody is an authority on this subject it's Heidi Fleiss.:lol:

Oh absolutely! LOLOLOL:laugh:

[Steviefan49]

This just goes to show you - cash is always best in these situations :cool:

That kills me! lmaoo...:laugh:

[buckymcnix]

wow - what a read.


I mean, I'm sure Mrs. Spitzer is probably the nicest woman in the world and everything... but... well, can you blame the dude? :sorry:

the logic here fails.
She looked damn pretty in the "before" picture that paula posted. You are judging her based on a picture taken AFTER she found out that her husband had cheated and wasted a fortune of their money and using how she looks then to rationalize why he cheated. The time line fails.

Yes, this sounds misogynistic, but when you're married to the highest politico in NY state, you do need to make a bit more of an effort. For chrissakes, woman, drag a comb through that rats nest!



I am guessing you have never been publicly humiliatied. Her whole world has been smashed into little pieces and you are worried about her hair?
Dude, have a heart for christ sakes.


Yeah, that one. I always feel so bad for the wives when this happens. Like Mcgreavy, or Senator Craig's wives, or Pat Nixon, or Kathy Lee Gifford. The wife has to stand there and be stoic, it must be so humiliating.

I honestly believe that most of them are still in shock when they are standing there so stoic. Given time to think about whether to stand there or not, I wonder how many would change their minds.


See, if I was in that situation, I would have gone all out to look fierce, which would only underscore the point that Mr. Spitzer was an idiot for gambling his career away when he had such a hot piece of a$$ at home.

This sounds so superficial. There is no sin in looking devastated when you are devestated. To twist that into a reason for her being treated thusly just doesn't make sense to me.

Instead, by looking so schlubby, although the public is outwardly outraged, lots of married men were probably thinking, "dude, I totally understand why you did this."

wow , you are digging a crater here. lol

I don't believe that all married men are gonna base whether they emapathize with a cheater based on how the wife looks after she's been cheated on. Some men see upset women and it breaks our hearts and we want to help protect them, not judge them.



Sure, she was totally disrespected and humuliated. But as the old saying goes, even bad publicity is better than no publicity at all. Now that her face has been plastered onto the cover of every magazine and newspaper around the world, she has instantly become immortalized. She can now go off, dump the loser, write a book, appear on Oprah and become the posterchild for jilted wives everywhere. It's just a shame that she didn't have a proper stylist for the press conference (the video of the press conference was much less flattering than the photo).



I am afraid I am making the "face" but for totally different reasons.

so you are saying that she has it made now, but she just doesn't realize it yet?

I may not be in the majority but a grieving person should get cut a lot of slack in unimportant matters such as how their hair looks.

:laugh:

VERY few if any women on this board, and perhaps in reality, will get that argument. And, even if they may think it, but the bonds of the Sisterhood of the Vag. prevent them for saying it. Just like all they can focus on is the betrayal. I get that she was betrayed and that was awful, etc. But, have some self-respect woman :nod:

Meanwhile, I submit every staight guy on this board gets it as do most of the gays.

For all we know - she could have cheated as well. But, I agree, he passed himself off as someone who fights crime and he specifically targeted whorehouses and hooker rings on more than one occasion.


In the end, I could care a less about hiring a hooker. I do not think that is a bad or wrong thing to do. It is his blatant hypocrisy in his public life. So, he should resign.

I agree about consenting adults.
I think that throwing in "for all we know she could have cheated as well" into your post that otherwise was holding him responsible for his actions was unneeded. It casts suspicion on her with no evidence when he is the one to wrong her.

Speak for yourself, Suzanne. :distress:

Hey Mikey, I also count myself as a gay that doesn't agree with the arguement.




I'll even go one further, most men stray because the wife lets herself go and some young, hot thing catches his eye. It sucks, but it is the way of the world. Men are pigs, what can I say :shrug:

I don't think that the "wife lets herself go" enters into it most times. Men are just more genetically inclined to sow their seeds and some can control that urge and some can't. Is there a study somewhere that upholds this theory that pretty wives don't get cheated on as much? Maybe the pretty wives are so concerned with their looks that they aren't paying attention to their husbands and thus they stray.

You may have your view, but that does not negate that the Vadgsters unite when it comes to a cheating man :p

but aren't you suggesting that men all close ranks as well and look for reasons to understand why the guy cheated?



When I refered to her looking like shiitte, I refered only to the pics of her on the podium when he gave his "I HAVE SINNED" speech. Again, I think it would have served her better to have looked great. And, this is no simpleton who knows nothing about the media. She has been in the public spotlight for at least a decade now.

I also am sorry for her. I think the facts as we know then suggest she was wronged. My heart goes out to her.

whew - i was wondering if there was a heart in there for a bit strand.

but - lol - although she is media savy - she has never had to deal with something like this before so that savy probably took a back burner.

If you were to find out that the person you've spent say- the last 15 years or so of your life with, who "supposedly" you share children/ and or your life with, pulls this crap, that ES pulled on his poor wife, and it all comes out through a "wire" that was on him in this scandal, and YOU then find out about it. How would you look and feel? Would you SLEEP the night before? Would you feel like having your make up done "just so" - like you're ready for a magazine photo shoot somewhere, KNOWING there were going to be tons of people there? Would you feel maybe like you want to throw up all over the place because your entire life/ world is being turned upside down?? Maybe considering all of this, you just may re-think those sayings.. LOL.. And it's all said out of kindness, as I'm not out to be vicious at all. I totally agree with the rest of what you said.. but that I just can't swallow.. ;)

Well said.

I would look great for it if for no other reason than I am vain ;)


Also, without further evidence, I really do not think she did not suspect or perhaps know something. I mean the latest reports state that he spent likely $40,000+ on this. How could she not notice that :shrug: But, who knows and I certainly was not there.

lol - at least you can admit it huh? Many people have accountants that do all the tallying. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that she could have been clueless as to the missing money. Seems to happen to the richer folks all the time :D

[SuzeQuze]

Here's the wife, Silda, less than 2 months ago. Yeah, what a hag, huh? :rolleyes: It's a damn shame she let herself go like that when it's obvious that her husband has done his best to look good for her.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/skcin/Misc/silda.jpg

My hero! :xoxo:

[SuzeQuze]

Well honey.. I don't know about you - but as vain as I am too, you can know for a fact that I wouldn't have even THOUGHT of having my makeup done, or anything else, due to the fact that I would have probably been up all night long, (thinking, drinking, or Lord knows what) upon finding out THAT news! LOL.. That's a pretty big pill to swallow, no matter HOW naturally gorgeous I am.. LOL :p-(cough, cough) As Suze said in a earlier post, which I agree with her on- she was doing "GREAT" just to stand next to that hypocrital- sob without castrating him right then and there!

I don't think I would have done it. he'd be on his own.

[SuzeQuze]

wow - what a read.
...
lol - at least you can admit it huh? Many people have accountants that do all the tallying. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that she could have been clueless as to the missing money. Seems to happen to the richer folks all the time :D

It looks like the money went to a corporation so the check could have been written out to something that seemed legitimate. But as you said, she may not even be looking at where the money is going.

[Steviefan49]

I don't think I would have done it. he'd be on his own.

Me too Suze.. I'm with you.. I'm not sure I would have had the strength to actually go through with it..:(

[SuzeQuze]

Me too Suze.. I'm with you.. I'm not sure I would have had the strength to actually go through with it..:(

Well I think the real strength might be in walking away. Going along can seem easy sometimes. People are telling you to stand by your man or whatever. But you just say, no I gotta stand by me first.

Part of the consequences of doing what he did is public disapproval, period. Too bad!

[strandinthewind]

. . . whew - i was wondering if there was a heart in there for a bit strand . . . .

Don't let it get out :cool:

[DavidMn]

try again. there were already 2 threads about this when you started yours last night.(((SIGH)))) If you cant see the sarcasm in that statement, whatever..

[carrie721]

(((SIGH)))) If you cant see the sarcasm in that statement, whatever..

yeah, you're really misunderstood, sybil.

[DavidMn]

yeah, you're really misunderstood, sybil.I'm not wasting my time getting into some kind of shouting match with you. I know you cant stand me and I really dont care. But that Sybil Comment just shows how classless you are.

[carrie721]

I'm not wasting my time getting into some kind of shouting match with you. I know you cant stand me and I really dont care. But that Sybil Comment just shows how classless you are.

classless?

you might wanna step out of that glass house before you start throwing ****.

[DavidMn]

classless?

you might wanna step out of that glass house before you start throwing ****.Have I ever said Im perfect? no. I fully admitted that I have been rude to some people here, which is something I'm sure you would never admit to. God I cant stand you.

[carrie721]

Have I ever said Im perfect? no. I fully admitted that I have been rude to some people here, which is something I'm sure you would never admit to. God I cant stand you.

points for forthrightness.

feel free to put me on ignore.

:wavey:

[DavidMn]

points for forthrightness.

feel free to put me on ignore.

:wavey:I'm not wasting one more breath on you believe me.

[rubytuesday]

:laugh:

VERY few if any women on this board, and perhaps in reality, will get that argument. And, even if they may think it, but the bonds of the Sisterhood of the Vag. prevent them for saying it. Just like all they can focus on is the betrayal. I get that she was betrayed and that was awful, etc. But, have some self-respect woman :nod:

Meanwhile, I submit every staight guy on this board gets it as do most of the gays.

What do you mean? That if a man's wife isn't stunning then she can expect her husband to cheat on her or even justify him cheating on her?

Hey now - draw it mild :p

Come on - if she had hauled up there looked like a model - you would not have thought, even if just a little bit, that if you had that hot a$$ at home, you would have never strayed.

I'll even go one further, most men stray because the wife lets herself go and some young, hot thing catches his eye. It sucks, but it is the way of the world. Men are pigs, what can I say :shrug:

That sounds very sexist. A middle aged woman doesn't let herself go, she just ages as nature intended, as does her husband. There's no excuse in the looks department. Don't commit to not taking other partners or go and marry a 10 year old because just like all the young men will become one of those not so attractive middle aged guys, women will age. I don't like that phrase "let herself go" used to describe a woman (or a man) who doesn't look like a model but looks like a person would naturally look.

[JWS]

What do you mean? That if a man's wife isn't stunning then she can expect her husband to cheat on her or even justify him cheating on her?



Bo Derek...

[strandinthewind]

Bo Derek...

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

nice one.

Ruby -- if you want to ignore the fact that many if not most men stray to some young hot thing, so be it. I think it sucks and I do not think I could ever do it. But, it is the way the world unfortunately works in many if not most cases. I mean look at the old and often used cliche of the young couple struggling to make it - she sacrifices more than he does with the kids and when they make it, he dumps her for a trophy wife. Again, all men are not like that and all men who stray do not stray for that reason and in some cases the first wife is older, but still hot. But, it does happen and it happens often - don't shoot the messenger :shrug:

To me, it is hysterical that women (mostly) cannot acknowledge this fact. And again, I am not saying I think it is fair, I am just saying it happens and it happens often.

In ES' case, this does not appear to be the issue. based on what we know (which is not much) - the issue here appears to be some sort of kink that his wife may not have wanted to do or that he did not want his wife to do.

[SuzeQuze]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

nice one.

Ruby -- if you want to ignore the fact that many if not most men stray to some young hot thing, so be it. I think it sucks and I do not think I could ever do it. But, it is the way the world unfortunately works. I mean look at the old and often used cliche of the young couple struggling to make it - she sacrifices more than he does with the kids and when they make it, he dumps her for a trophy wife. Again, all men are not like that and all men who stray do not stray for that reason. But, it does happen and it happens often - don't shoot the messenger :shrug:

To me, it is hysterical that women (mostly) cannot acknowledge this fact. And again, I am not saying I think it is fair, I am just saying it happens and it happens often.

In ES' case, this does not appear to be the issue. based on what we know (which is not much) - the issue here appears to be some sort of kink that his wife may not have wanted to do or that he did not want his wife to do.

It isn't a fact. I don't know if there's anywhere you can pull scientific data that says most men who cheat did it because the woman let herself go. This isn't a majority thing. It does happen but it isn't in staggering numbers. Men cheat because they're cheaters. Elizabeth Hurley.

Why do you think women are so hilarious? I think you have some kind of issue with women. I know you love women but thinking we are "hysterical" kind of sends a red flag up for me.

Just to clarify what I am not saying is that it is okay to neglect yourself and become obese and unhealthy. I think it is important to take care of yourself and part of that is because you really can't expect your husband to be attracted to you if you don't care for yourself. But mostly you do it for you so you can love yourself. That is what it is all about.

That said, this man has a deep rooted hatred of himself. He goes after people just like him. I feel sorry for him and hope he can get himself together. But that is purely out of pity, he made his bed.

[strandinthewind]

March 12, 2008
The Public Ordeal of a Private Person
By ERIC KONIGSBERG
Silda Wall Spitzer gave up a high-powered career as a corporate lawyer to raise three daughters and support her husband as he sought elective office, yet has always had deep reservations about his political career. Time and again, she has found herself in the particular bind of encouraging him during critical junctures in his public life while still holding on to some regret that he had chosen to put himself — and their family — there in the first place.

In 1994, after Eliot Spitzer made his first, unsuccessful run for New York State attorney general, Ms. Wall Spitzer told Nicholas Kourides, a friend and a former colleague of hers from the world of corporate law, “Well, now he can go back and get a real job,” he said in a 2006 interview.

And in July, lamenting the political tumult that rocked the first six months of Governor Spitzer’s time in office, his wife asked him what would have been so bad about going into his father’s real estate business, Mr. Spitzer said at the time.

According to friends, the governor’s time in Albany exacted a psychic cost from Ms. Wall Spitzer, 50, who has not been able to fully embrace her role as first lady. “I think the whole period of his governorship hasn’t fit her,” one friend of both Spitzers said. “It strained the marriage.”

Recently, the friend said, the strain had increased.

“He’s been traveling a lot,” the friend continued, “and then what was happening to him politically — I had sensed it with Silda over the last several weeks in particular. She’s an extremely private person.”

On Monday, a day after she learned that federal investigators had identified Governor Spitzer as a customer of a high-priced prostitution ring, Ms. Wall Spitzer urged her husband not to resign. And on Tuesday, she apparently hewed to that line.

People close to Mr. Spitzer said that when the news first broke, Ms. Wall Spitzer had emotionally pleaded with her husband not to give up the governorship.

Friends of the pair said that they initially believed Ms. Wall Spitzer took the stance she did because she was not yet aware of the extent of the government’s investigation. “When Silda said that, the details that have come out since weren’t known,” a friend of Mr. Spitzer’s said, referring to the fact that the government complaint against the prostitution ring stemmed from an I.R.S. inquiry and involved Mr. Spitzer’s bank records.

On Monday and Tuesday, as the allegations exploded across front pages and television screens, Governor Spitzer and Ms. Wall Spitzer sought the advice of a group of people who over the years have been both colleagues and friends.

“I was flabbergasted,” said Lloyd Constantine, a senior adviser and a longtime friend, describing his reaction to the initial news reports.

“I have tremendous insight into what she’s going through,” Mr. Constantine said. “Right now, what I’m trying to do, as a friend of Eliot and Silda’s, is to be as helpful as possible to them and to their family and to the people of the state of New York. And at this time, that does not involve talking about what they have shared with me.”

Mr. Constantine, whose wife, Jan, is a good friend of Ms. Wall Spitzer (the two families have vacation homes near each other in upstate New York and have spent Thanksgivings together), was said to be initially Ms. Wall Spitzer’s lone ally in encouraging Governor Spitzer not to resign in haste.

Reached on her cellphone on Tuesday evening, Ms. Wall Spitzer declined, with extreme politeness, to discuss her husband’s political future. “I really don’t have anything to say,” she said.

Clifford Sloan, a friend of Mr. Spitzer’s during their time as Harvard Law School students and a lawyer in Washington, is believed by mutual friends to have come to New York to be by the governor’s side.

It’s difficult at the moment to see Ms. Wall Spitzer as something other than the aggrieved party in her husband’s transgressions. But she appears to still hold singular sway over his political decisions.

Some friends said that they had reached out to the Spitzers by e-mail to express their sympathy and support. “And she responded in a very generous and loving way,” said Andrew G. Celli Jr., one friend. “I was a little surprised that she had the inclination to write back. I supposed it means she’s not totally, totally in the bunker.”

Friends of Mr. Spitzer’s describe his wife as perhaps the only person whose approval he values so much that she has even, at times, been able to take the edge off his abrasive style. They cite her willingness to quit her job at Chase Manhattan Bank (she previously worked at Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom) in 1994, the year the youngest of their three daughters was born and the year of her husband’s first run for attorney general, as something for which he has always felt especially grateful.

“The fact that she believed in me enough to put her very promising legal career on hold was a great source of inspiration,” Mr. Spitzer said in an interview during his 2006 campaign.

But Ms. Wall Spitzer, also speaking at the time of the campaign, acknowledged her enduring ambivalence.

“I’ve basically got three jobs now, with the campaign,” she said — referring also to motherhood and Children for Children, a foundation she started. “And none of them are corporate law, and none of them pay.”

The two met as students at Harvard Law School and were married in 1987. Ms. Wall Spitzer was the product of Concord, N.C., which had a population of 20,000, and a graduate of Meredith College, a Baptist women’s school in her home state.

In 2006, she said that one of the things that had always attracted her to her husband was his close relationship with his parents.

“I can always tell when Eliot is talking to his mother or his father on the phone,” she said. “He just sounds different.”

Since Governor Spitzer began his term in Albany, his wife has spent much of her time in New York City, where their teenage daughters have remained and attend school. In 2006, when Ms. Wall Spitzer showed a reporter around their apartment on Fifth Avenue, she proudly declared that as a rule, only artwork made by members of the immediate family was allowed to hang on the walls.

One multicolored drip painting, in a den that the family calls the Adirondack Room, had been signed “Spitzer Wall,” because the two of them had painted it together early in their courtship.

“Eliot and I had been to the Whitney and were looking at a Jackson Pollock, and he said, ‘I could do that,’ ” Ms. Wall Spitzer said, imitating her husband with a braggadocious tone. “So I said, ‘Let’s see you try,’ and then I helped him.”

www.nytimes.com

[strandinthewind]

By the way - here is a bio on Silda Spitzer:

Silda Wall Spitzer
James Estrin/The New York Times Silda Wall Spitzer is the wife of Eliot Spitzer, the crusading Attorney General who was elected governor of New York in November 2006.

By her own admission, she is an ambivalent political spouse, a high-powered woman in her own right who surrendered certain personal goals for the demands of public life. She was formerly a rising corporate lawyer, first at the law firm Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, and then as in-house counsel for Chase Manhattan Bank, and she makes no bones about the satisfaction she found in the work force.

But as her husband plunged headlong into the political life, she decided to devote herself to their three daughters and to starting a philanthropic foundation. With the spotlight on the Spitzers intensifying during his march to the governor’s mansion, she proved to be a game political sidekick who brings polish and grace to her husband’s occasionally headstrong and overeager image.

Ms. Wall Spitzer grew up in Concord, N.C., which had a population of about 20,000 at the time. Her father was a hospital administrator and her mother was a homemaker. Her parents came up with the name Silda by shortening the Old German name Serilda, which means something like “armed warrior woman,” or, as she likes to tell the story, “Teutonic war maiden.”

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/silda_wall_spitzer/index.html?inline=nyt-per

________________________________________________________

Hardly the story of a meek fish who is just a victim :shrug: Thus, I suggest, she knows exactly what she is doing, and that is not a bad thing IMO.

[strandinthewind]

It isn't a fact.

Yawn

So, the guy is going to stray with a butt ugly old chick :laugh: :rolleyes:

Of course, I have seen that happen once and his wife way HAWT~ The guy was, however, a flake.

Why do you think women are so hilarious? I think you have some kind of issue with women. I know you love women but thinking we are "hysterical" kind of sends a red flag up for me . . . .

I find it hysterical that women cannot admit that if they go from being a hottie to an old, fat harpy, their guy is going to stray. If you can admit that, then I do not find you hysterical.

[trackaghost]

I find it hysterical that women cannot admit that if they go from being a hottie to an old, fat harpy, their guy is going to stray. If you can admit that, then I do not find you hysterical.

Wow. Just wow.

"I find it hysterical that women cannot admit that if they go from being a hottie to an old, fat harpy, their guy is going to stray. "

I'm glad to see you've got the undisputed facts there.
But I guess it beats your usual fence-sitting.

[trackaghost]

Why do you think women are so hilarious? I think you have some kind of issue with women. I know you love women but thinking we are "hysterical" kind of sends a red flag up for me.


I'm confused why the men in this thread who disagreed with Strand's opinion aren't "hysterical" too.

[strandinthewind]

Wow. Just wow.

"I find it hysterical that women cannot admit that if they go from being a hottie to an old, fat harpy, their guy is going to stray. "

I'm glad to see you've got the undisputed facts there.
But I guess it beats your usual fence-sitting.

Undisputed facts of what. I already repeatedly said that was a generalization and likely not applicable in ES' case :shrug: Nice try at the insult though and I would never presume where to tell you to sit :rolleyes:

Again, women, at least around here, just cannot comprehend or admit that although it is patently unfair, guys are more likely to cheat if they lose their looks. Hasn't history repeatedly demonstrated this :shrug: And, this is a sad testament to men who cheat.

[strandinthewind]

I'm confused why the men in this thread who disagreed with Strand's opinion aren't "hysterical" too.

They are :cool:

Seriously, maybe they do not feel that way. Again and please pay attention this time :D -- not all men cheat. But, the ones who do are likely to do so because they do not find their wives attractive in some way - interstingly, many affairs are meaninless flings that never amount to anything as the guy wants to stay married. In ES' case, ES seemingly wanted someone to do some bizarre sex act that he did not get at home - at least that is what the media is suggesting.

Are you pissed because I am saying factually that men who cheat likely do so because their spouse got fat? If so, don't get mad at me - i think that is awful, but, I am just the messenger.

Again, the sisterhood of the vag. :laugh:

[HejiraNYC]

yeah, you're really misunderstood, sybil.

That was an utterly disgusting low blow.

[trackaghost]

They are :cool:

Seriously, maybe they do not feel that way. Again and please pay attention this time :D -- not all men cheat. But, the ones who do are likely to do so because they do not find their wives attractive in some way - interstingly, many affairs are meaninless flings that never amount to anything as the guy wants to stay married. In ES' case, ES seemingly wanted someone to do some bizarre sex act that he did not get at home - at least that is what the media is suggesting.

Are you pissed because I am saying factually that men who cheat likely do so because their spouse got fat? If so, don't get mad at me - i think that is awful, but, I am just the messenger.

Again, the sisterhood of the vag. :laugh:

I'm more offended that you deem women who disagreed with you as "hysterical" and not the men.

As for the governor and his cheating ways, I don't particularly care about it or the scandal. I think that a woman losing her looks (which doesn't just necessarily mean getting fat btw) probably plays a big part in why guys cheat but I don't think it's the only reason. I just find it weird how people started blaming his wife almost straight away. Everyone loses their looks, it's called the ageing process.

[SuzeQuze]

I'm more offended that you deem women who disagreed with you as "hysterical" and not the men.

As for the governor and his cheating ways, I don't particularly care about it or the scandal. I think that a woman losing her looks (which doesn't just necessarily mean getting fat btw) probably plays a big part in why guys cheat but I don't think it's the only reason. I just find it weird how people started blaming his wife almost straight away. Everyone loses their looks, it's called the ageing process.

Yeah and I think people project their own fear of aging onto women and say it's their fault. Victim blaming is a way to say that will never happen to me because I am not that pathetic. The reality is yes it could, it could happen to anybody.

I don't dispute that a woman letting herself go could add to a man's justification of cheating. I am saying that it doesn't cause the cheating. Especially not in most cases. But the argument seems to keep switching. I don't know what I am arguing against anymore.

Do I think Silda is a victim? No, that is not her identity. But yes, she was victimized in this circumstance. She is the victim of this act. She is not a victim. She is a victim of Spitzer's infidelity.

[Steviefan49]

It isn't a fact. I don't know if there's anywhere you can pull scientific data that says most men who cheat did it because the woman let herself go. This isn't a majority thing. It does happen but it isn't in staggering numbers. Men cheat because they're cheaters. Elizabeth Hurley.

Why do you think women are so hilarious? I think you have some kind of issue with women. I know you love women but thinking we are "hysterical" kind of sends a red flag up for me.

Just to clarify what I am not saying is that it is okay to neglect yourself and become obese and unhealthy. I think it is important to take care of yourself and part of that is because you really can't expect your husband to be attracted to you if you don't care for yourself. But mostly you do it for you so you can love yourself. That is what it is all about.

That said, this man has a deep rooted hatred of himself. He goes after people just like him. I feel sorry for him and hope he can get himself together. But that is purely out of pity, he made his bed.

And WHY aren't you running for President? You'd have my vote in a heartbeat.:xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

. . . I just find it weird how people started blaming his wife almost straight away. Everyone loses their looks, it's called the ageing process.

I never blamed his wife for his cheating. I merely said she looked like shiitte in that photo and while I get that she may be hurt (who wouldn't be) - I think it would have served her better to come out looking better than that.

And, yes, everyone loses their looks. Sadly, my experience in the world tells me that men tend to stray to a better looking person who is younger. It is not all men and it sucks.

[strandinthewind]

Yeah and I think people project their own fear of aging onto women and say it's their fault.

No, I think they just want to screw a young hottie. I think many women cannot admit or get that :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

. . .I don't know what I am arguing against anymore . . . .

There's medication for that :p

[strandinthewind]

I'm more offended that you deem women who disagreed with you as "hysterical" and not the men . . . .

It seems the women just stick together on this one. Thank goodness Irishgirl (Mary) is not here on this one :laugh:

[HejiraNYC]

Poor Strandie! I think we should all keep in mind the things that we all can agree on:

1. What Eliot Spitzer did was wrong, stupid and inexcusable.
2. Mrs. Wall Spitzer was incredibly brave for facing the cameras at a difficult time.
3. Many women would have given the cheater the boot already.
4. Mrs. Wall Spitzer looked worn out and disheveled at the press conference.
5. Mrs. Wall Spitzer looked MUCH better in photos taken before the scandal.

All Strandie and I are saying is that Mrs. Wall Spitzer could have really scored some major fierceness points while undermining her husband by showing up looking like a total cougar, which would have implied indirectly, "look at what this loser is cheating on." But instead she showed up looking disheveled and matronly, e.g., Barbara Bush-style pearl necklace. I am not defending Mr. Spitzer, but I am saying that "lots" (not ALL) of men probably thought to themselves, even momentarily, that Mr. Spitzer was probably tired of seeing that sour puss in bed every evening and could relate. And, yes, the sad truth is that, with a handful of exceptions, men are total pigs, who would forage for different sexual partners far and wide if they were allowed to. Eliot Spitzer just happens to be a pig that was enabled with money, power and sheer chutzpah.

She's an attractive woman... a solid 6 or 7. But with a clingy Diane Von Furstenberg dress, some heels, concealer, dramatic hairdo, some understated accessories and some cleave, she could have been an easy 9+. Combining that with her smarts, her ivy league education and family values, she could have seized this opportunity to set her sights on something much loftier than being this kinky retard's wife and baby-mommy.

[strandinthewind]

^^^

Here comes the sisterhood of the vag :eek:

Again, I think Jazzy should have showed up for her. I am certain the blue wig would have appeared and there likely would have been a public slap :eek: :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

. . . I am saying that "lots" (not ALL) of men probably thought to themselves, even momentarily, that Mr. Spitzer was probably tired of seeing that sour puss in bed every evening and could relate. And, yes, the sad truth is that, with a handful of exceptions, men are total pigs, who would forage for different sexual partners far and wide if they were allowed to . . . .

I'd go you one further and suggest that a fair amount of women likely thought that as well (perhaps out of spite) - though many of them would never admit it.

What a sad commentary that is on society.

[SuzeQuze]

There's medication for that :p

:lol: No, somebody keeps changing the argument! Anyway, I think all of us mostly agree. We are arguing semantics as usual. Lord knows if that were my husband and I did agree to stand by him I would have looked like Carmen Electra for damn sure. :laugh: But I think it would be a cold day in hell before I'd even appear there. Although I'm sure she was still in shock and hadn't fully processed what was going on.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Although I'm sure she was still in shock and hadn't fully processed what was going on.

I wonder if she suspected something? I think many people do but do not want to admit it. That, of course, merely means the hurt was prolonged, not lessened.

[SuzeQuze]

I wonder if she suspected something? I think many people do but do not want to admit it. That, of course, merely means the hurt was prolonged, not lessened.

She probably did suspect and in hindsight will remember all the little things she dismissed and will see how they add up.

[HejiraNYC]

It seems the women just stick together on this one. Thank goodness Irishgirl (Mary) is not here on this one :laugh:

I too tend to think the Sisterhood of the Vag is a bit of an urban legend. How else can you explain the fact that Hillary isn't getting a landslide proportion of the female vote? Many women have told me that they cannot deal with women in positions of authority or that they would never work for another woman, which leads me to believe that once you get underneath all of that superficial Oprah-like warm and fuzzy-wuzzy-ness of sisterhood, the claws come out and the backstabbing starts. Men may be unfaithful by nature, but women seem to be competitive and jealous by nature. How else can you explain the prevalence of $600 shoes and $5,000 handbags? Men aren't exactly looking for Fendi logos on their women (or their men, as the case may be...).

[strandinthewind]

Oh why not refocus :eek:

March 12, 2008
Op-Ed Contributors
The Myth of the Victimless Crime
By MELISSA FARLEY and VICTOR MALAREK
WHAT do we know about the woman Gov. Eliot Spitzer allegedly hired as a prostitute? She was the one person he ignored in his apology. What is she going through now? Is she in danger from organized crime because of what she knows? Is anyone offering her legal counsel or alternatives to prostitution?

“I’m here for a purpose,” she said in a conversation with her booking agent after meeting with Governor Spitzer, according to the affidavit of the F.B.I agent who investigated the prostitution ring. “I know what my purpose is. I’m not a ... moron, you know what I mean.”

Her purpose, as a man who knew patiently explained, is “renting” out an organ for 10 minutes. Men rent women through the Internet or by cellphone as if they were renting a car. And now, in response to the news about Governor Spitzer, pundits are wading into the age-old debates over whether prostitution is a victimless crime or whether women are badly hurt in prostitution no matter what they’re paid.

Whose theory is it that prostitution is victimless? It’s the men who buy prostitutes who spew the myths that women choose prostitution, that they get rich, that it’s glamorous and that it turns women on.

But most women in prostitution, including those working for escort services, have been sexually abused as children, studies show. Incest sets young women up for prostitution — by letting them know what they’re worth and what’s expected of them. Other forces that channel women into escort prostitution are economic hardship and racism.

The Emperor’s Club presented itself as an elite escort service. But aside from charging more, it worked like any other prostitution business. The pimps took their 50 percent cut. The Emperor’s Club often required that the women provide sex twice an hour. One woman who was wiretapped indicated that she couldn’t handle that pressure. The ring operated throughout the United States and Europe. The transport of women for prostitution was masked by its description as “travel dates.”

Telephone operators at the Emperor’s Club criticized one of the women for cutting sessions with buyers short so that she could pick up her children at school. “As a general rule,” one said, “girls with children tend to have a little more baggage going on.”

Whether the woman is in a hotel room or on a side street in someone’s car, whether she’s trafficked from New York to Washington or from Mexico to Florida or from the city to the suburbs, the experience of being prostituted causes her immense psychological and physical harm. And it all starts with the buyer.

Melissa Farley is the author of “Prostitution and Trafficking in Nevada: Making the Connections.” Victor Malarek is the author of “The Natashas: Inside the New Global Sex Trade.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/opinion/12farley.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

Violence and other issues like STD's aside (which I suggest happen with casual sex regardless of whether a hooker is involved http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/science/12std.html?hp ) I see nothing wrong with prostitution. I mean if a woman can abort a life growing inside her based on the premise that it is her body and the state cannot tell her what to do with it, why can't a woman sell her vag. for a few minutes. Where does the state get off telling her what to do with her body as long as consenting adults are concerned. Same for male prostitutes, though I suggest there is way less sympathy in that scenario.

[strandinthewind]

I too tend to think the Sisterhood of the Vag is a bit of an urban legend. How else can you explain the fact that Hillary isn't getting a landslide proportion of the female vote? Many women have told me that they cannot deal with women in positions of authority or that they would never work for another woman, which leads me to believe that once you get underneath all of that superficial Oprah-like warm and fuzzy-wuzzy-ness of sisterhood, the claws come out and the backstabbing starts. Men may be unfaithful by nature, but women seem to be competitive and jealous by nature. How else can you explain the prevalence of $600 shoes and $5,000 handbags? Men aren't exactly looking for Fendi logos on their women (or their men, as the case may be...).

I think the Sisterhood of the Vag. appears pretty much only when a guy cheats and/or men comment on a woman's weight gain or aging process in a preceived negative way (there really is not positive way mind you and men should refrain from the topic :laugh: .

As for Hillary, I think the women who cannot stand her because they view her as a pushy bittchh. Also, were there not a black man in the race, I think the she would have gotten the black vag. vote. But, apparently, there is no way the sisters ain't voting for the brother. Thus, Geraldine Ferraro's comment, which while perhaps accurate, was stupid because white people are never allowed to comment on black people in that regard without immediately being branded a white hood wearing racist.

But, I agree with the rest of your post.

[petep9000]

I too tend to think the Sisterhood of the Vag is a bit of an urban legend. How else can you explain the fact that Hillary isn't getting a landslide proportion of the female vote?

Some might argue that Hill would have gotten the landslide proportion of the female vote had she booted Bill out of her life after the Jones and Lewinsky flaps. But then, some voters (Red or Blue state) might be averse to electing a divorcee. Suprising then, that Reagan got where he did, or where McCain wants to be headed.

[HejiraNYC]

She probably did suspect and in hindsight will remember all the little things she dismissed and will see how they add up.

But do you suppose there is even a remote possibility that this was all being done with her knowledge and consent? I have heard that he may have spent upwards of $80K on hookers over the years... and even for a wealthy family, that is a lot of money to just go missing from the balance sheet. Also, her resolution to "stand by her man" makes me suspicious; if anything, she may have been more shellshocked by the spectre of jail time, public humiliation and loss of political power moreso than the actual act itself.

[strandinthewind]

But do you suppose there is even a remote possibility that this was all being done with her knowledge and consent? I have heard that he may have spent upwards of $80K on hookers over the years... and even for a wealthy family, that is a lot of money to just go missing from the balance sheet. Also, her resolution to "stand by her man" makes me suspicious; if anything, she may have been more shellshocked by the spectre of jail time, public humiliation and loss of political power moreso than the actual act itself.

I agree. I say again that these people are very aware of the press and power. Their outlook is skewed that way. It really has to be, which is sad. So, while I think she is hurt as we all would be, she is a very talented and once high powered lawyer, which, along with the life in the public spotlight, I submit makes her think differently.

[Steviefan49]

No, I think they just want to screw a young hottie. I think many women cannot admit or get that :shrug:

:laugh::laugh: This made me laugh Strandie.. How about us women who aren't into (older-fat and balding guys- due to AGING -thank you very much) who want younger "hottie MEN"? :thumbsup:

[trackaghost]

No, I think they just want to screw a young hottie. I think many women cannot admit or get that :shrug:

That's probably true but I think a lot of guys want that regardless of how his wife/girlfriend looks.

[Steviefan49]

That's probably true but I think a lot of guys want that regardless of how his wife/girlfriend looks.

Oh absolutely! LOL.. As do us women!! I don't want some FUGLY thing like ES! I want something "HAWT".. :p

[trackaghost]

I too tend to think the Sisterhood of the Vag is a bit of an urban legend. How else can you explain the fact that Hillary isn't getting a landslide proportion of the female vote? Many women have told me that they cannot deal with women in positions of authority or that they would never work for another woman, which leads me to believe that once you get underneath all of that superficial Oprah-like warm and fuzzy-wuzzy-ness of sisterhood, the claws come out and the backstabbing starts. Men may be unfaithful by nature, but women seem to be competitive and jealous by nature. How else can you explain the prevalence of $600 shoes and $5,000 handbags? Men aren't exactly looking for Fendi logos on their women (or their men, as the case may be...).

But aren't guys just as competitive but over different things? For sure they are!
And I think the reason why some women are suspicious of Hillary as president is probably down to a lot of the same reasons why men are suspicious, and that has to do with growing up in a society with so few female leaders or role models. We're just not used to it and we don't trust it.

[HejiraNYC]

Some might argue that Hill would have gotten the landslide proportion of the female vote had she booted Bill out of her life after the Jones and Lewinsky flaps. But then, some voters (Red or Blue state) might be averse to electing a divorcee. Suprising then, that Reagan got where he did, or where McCain wants to be headed.

I think if Hillary loses the nomination, it would be a very, very sad day for women in America. Having a woman in the most powerful position of authority in the U.S. (if not the entire world), as well as the Majority Leader of the Senate, would have really advanced the female agenda tremendously on every level. I just get the sense that a lot of women tend to feel resigned to this notion of being secondary to men; they just don't realize that they have this incredible opportunity to galvanize together and make a strong statement about gender equality. This is their one and only shot (for the foreseeable future) to elect a female president and women just can't get it together. You're 51% of the population, for crikey's sake!

[SuzeQuze]

And WHY aren't you running for President? You'd have my vote in a heartbeat.:xoxo:

Can't run. Too many skeletons! :lol: Seriously, who can? Good people aren't going to run because it is too much of a mud slinging show.

[strandinthewind]

:laugh::laugh: This made me laugh Strandie.. How about us women who aren't into (older-fat and balding guys- due to AGING -thank you very much) who want younger "hottie MEN"? :thumbsup:

More power to you. But, at least I can readily admit that happens :shrug:

Interestingly, the incidence of a young hot thing on the arm of a 90 year old with a bad heart seemingly is greater than the vice versa, though that certainly happens as well.

[strandinthewind]

That's probably true but I think a lot of guys want that regardless of how his wife/girlfriend looks.

To a degree, but I think the "need," if you will, is heightened, when the wife is an old fat harpy. Again, there are many old, fat and happy faithful couples out there. I am not talking about them.

[SuzeQuze]

But do you suppose there is even a remote possibility that this was all being done with her knowledge and consent? I have heard that he may have spent upwards of $80K on hookers over the years... and even for a wealthy family, that is a lot of money to just go missing from the balance sheet. Also, her resolution to "stand by her man" makes me suspicious; if anything, she may have been more shellshocked by the spectre of jail time, public humiliation and loss of political power moreso than the actual act itself.

Remote yes. No self-respecting woman would consent to that though. Ew, ew, and ew.

[strandinthewind]

Can't run. Too many skeletons! :lol: Seriously, who can? Good people aren't going to run because it is too much of a mud slinging show.

Lord Child yes, sleeping with me and my illegitimate black daughter after a day of drunken craziness (including public singing) would be enough to keep you out.

[SuzeQuze]

To a degree, but I think the "need," if you will, is heightened, when the wife is an old fat harpy. Again, there are many old, fat and happy faithful couples out there. I am not talking about them.

Not need. Desire.

[Steviefan49]

More power to you. But, at least I can readily admit that happens :shrug:

Interestingly, the incidence of a young hot thing on the arm of a 90 year old with a bad heart seemingly is greater than the vice versa, though that certainly happens as well.

Honey... I'm FAR from 90.. LOL.. My boyfriend is 10 years my junior, and trust me, there are guys in their 30's and 40's- (the smarter ones;)) who are into women that not only have money, and are established, but who are have maturity levels far above the "Britney's" out in the world.. ;):laugh:

[HejiraNYC]

But aren't guys just as competitive but over different things? For sure they are!
And I think the reason why some women are suspicious of Hillary as president is probably down to a lot of the same reasons why men are suspicious, and that has to do with growing up in a society with so few female leaders or role models. We're just not used to it and we don't trust it.

Guys can be competitive too... but I don't think it's nearly as consistent as it is with women. If anything, guys are more proud and stubborn, which can sometimes manifest as competitiveness. And they tend to be very tenacious about some things whereas women tend to let stuff go a lot more readily.

[strandinthewind]

I think if Hillary loses the nomination, it would be a very, very sad day for women in America. Having a woman in the most powerful position of authority in the U.S. (if not the entire world), as well as the Majority Leader of the Senate, would have really advanced the female agenda tremendously on every level. I just get the sense that a lot of women tend to feel resigned to this notion of being secondary to men; they just don't realize that they have this incredible opportunity to galvanize together and make a strong statement about gender equality. This is their one and only shot (for the foreseeable future) to elect a female president and women just can't get it together. You're 51% of the population, for crikey's sake!

And - defecting to a man who has little to offer other than IMO hollow hope is ridiculous IMO. But, the blacks see this a their first and likely only for awhile opportunity to have a black man in the Oval Office, which is an equally astounding thing as having a woman there.

[strandinthewind]

Honey... I'm FAR from 90.. LOL.. My boyfriend is 10 years my junior, and trust me, there are guys in their 30's and 40's- (the smarter ones;)) who are into women that not only have money, and are established, but who are have maturity levels far above the "Britney's" out in the world.. ;):laugh:

COUGAR :D:D:D

;)

[HejiraNYC]

My boyfriend is 10 years my junior, and trust me, there are guys in their 30's and 40's- (the smarter ones;)) who are into women that not only have money, and are established, but who are have maturity levels far above the "Britney's" out in the world.. ;):laugh:

Mrowr! Go, cougar, go! :lol:

[Steviefan49]

Can't run. Too many skeletons! :lol: Seriously, who can? Good people aren't going to run because it is too much of a mud slinging show.

LOLOL.:laugh:. I hear you- in order to qualify to be a politician these days, there definitely HAS to be some serious "tough skin" involved..

[Steviefan49]

COUGAR :D:D:D

;)

LOL.. Nah.. Just a smarter woman!;):laugh:

[Steviefan49]

Mrowr! Go, cougar, go! :lol:

:D Nah.. really... just a smarter woman.:laugh:

[SuzeQuze]

LOLOL.:laugh:. I hear you- in order to qualify to be a politician these days, there definitely HAS to be some serious "tough skin" involved..

Power to cover stuff up and ability to lie.

[Steviefan49]

Power to cover stuff up and ability to lie.

There you go... and the ability to make "THE FACE" lmaoooo :laugh:

[SuzeQuze]

Lord Child yes, sleeping with me and my illegitimate black daughter after a day of drunken craziness (including public singing) would be enough to keep you out.

Not to mention sleeping with Winnie the Poo! :lol:

[HejiraNYC]

And - defecting to a man who has little to offer other than IMO hollow hope is ridiculous IMO. But, the blacks see this a their first and likely only for awhile opportunity to have a black man in the Oval Office, which is an equally astounding thing as having a woman there.

I can also understand that having a (half) black man in the White House also sends a resoundingly powerful message for blacks. But then again, blacks only comprise approximately 10-15% of the overall U.S. population. They are a significant voting bloc, especially on the Dem side, but not nearly as significant as the female bloc.

This is way off-topic, but I have a tendency to believe some of what Geraldine Ferraro has said about Obama (that he would not have come this far politically as a non-black man). I would further add that if Edwards was black, he would have handed both Clinton and Obama their asses. Obama is a great speaker, but his hubris and gravitas appear to be a bit unfounded given his paucity of experience, especially when it comes to foreign and economic matters. As a result, to me he comes across as being too cocky to admit that he doesn't know everything ala GWB. We don't need another 8 years of that.

[SuzeQuze]

There you go... and the ability to make "THE FACE" lmaoooo :laugh:

:lol: Ability to fake apologies because people see you more favorably when you apologize, studies show.

[SuzeQuze]

I can also understand that having a (half) black man in the White House also sends a resoundingly powerful message for blacks. But then again, blacks only comprise approximately 10-15% of the overall U.S. population. They are a significant voting bloc, especially on the Dem side, but not nearly as significant as the female bloc.

This is way off-topic, but I have a tendency to believe some of what Geraldine Ferraro has said about Obama (that he would not have come this far politically as a non-black man). I would further add that if Edwards was black, he would have handed both Clinton and Obama their asses. Obama is a great speaker, but his hubris and gravitas appear to be a bit unfounded given his paucity of experience, especially when it comes to foreign and economic matters. As a result, to me he comes across as being too cocky to admit that he doesn't know everything ala GWB. We don't need another 8 years of that.

Hmm, I sincerely hope he is not arrogant enough to not see his own mistakes. That surely is a fatal flaw for anyone. A serious defect of character.

I agree with you on Edwards actually. I was surprised he didn't do better but you make a good point. I think he didn't do well because he lacks flash. Or chutzpuh, whatever you want to call it. Why is that so appealing to Americans? Is it because of our hypnosis by celebrity culture? Somehow charismatic people are better people? That is not the case. Some are good people, some are not. Often someone who's very charming is trying to cover something up.

[Steviefan49]

:lol: Ability to fake apologies because people see you more favorably when you apologize, studies show.

Absolutely!:thumbsup: And the bigger the blunder, the "bigger" the FACE.. LOL:lol:

[rubytuesday]

I find it hysterical that women cannot admit that if they go from being a hottie to an old, fat harpy, their guy is going to stray. If you can admit that, then I do not find you hysterical.That's incredibly insulting! My mother was an attractive young woman and I hesitate to say it but she aged and you know, she's not "attractive" in her late 50s. Is she supposed to accept that because of this fact her husband is going to cheat on her (and I should add that the exact same thing has happened to him, he has numerous chins, grey hair and a belly)? If I can't admit that this is a given, that he's going to stray then i'm hysterical. That's so incredibly sexist and insulting to women and also most of the men I know, men married to these older women who remain devoted. A famous example is the McCartney's. Linda was an attractive young woman but being the wife of a Beatle didn't make her exempt from aging and her face sagged and all the rest of it. His devotion to her could not be questioned and he'd probably want to spit in your face if you repeated that line about women being hysterical if they can't admit that it's natural for men of his age to stray because she no longer looked like a model.

And as others mentioned, is it hysterical if a man won't admit that a middle aged woman is going to cheat on her middle aged husband with a young man? of course it's not hysterical.

Someone else raised the good point that men (or women) cheat because they're cheaters with the example of Hugh Grant. Blaming the woman's looks or even saying it's the obvious reason why it happened is appalling.

[rubytuesday]

Again, the sisterhood of the vag. :laugh:I have to say that as a female, after reading your comments in here that seeinng those words followed by a light hearted laughing thing is coming off as very insulting.

[gldstwmn]

And he's out of there...

'Deeply sorry,' Spitzer to step down by Monday

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Gov. Eliot Spitzer said Wednesday that he will step down from the state's top office, saying he cannot allow his "private failings to disrupt the public's work."


Gov. Eliot Spitzer apologizes Wednesday because, he said, he "did not live up to what was expected."

"I am deeply sorry that I did not live up to what was expected of me," he said in a brief news conference announcing his intention to resign, effective Monday. "I will try once again outside of politics to serve the common good."

He added, "Our greatest glory consists not in never falling but in rising every time we fall."

The announcement came as the New York governor faces allegations -- but no charges -- that he is tied to an international prostitution ring ensnared in a federal probe. Watch Spitzer say his "failings" led him to resign »

Spitzer's lawyers were in discussions Wednesday with the U.S. attorney's office in New York, trying to negotiate a plea deal to avoid prosecution, a source with knowledge of the discussions said.

However, U.S. Attorney Michael Garcia in New York issued a statement saying, "There is no agreement between this office and Gov. Eliot Spitzer relating to his resignation or any other matter."

Spitzer, a former state attorney general whose reputation as a scourge of white-collar crime propelled him to the governor's office in 2006, has faced calls for his resignation since apologizing for a personal indiscretion Monday. He has not elaborated. See a timeline of Spitzer's life »

In his Wednesday announcement, Spitzer said, "Over the course of my public life, I have insisted -- I believe correctly -- that people, regardless of their position or power, take responsibility for their conduct. I can and will ask no less of myself."

On Monday, prosecutors unsealed an affidavit detailing a rendezvous in a Washington hotel room last month as part of a federal prostitution investigation. The affidavit refers only to "Client 9," but a source told CNN on Monday that the reference was to Spitzer. Sources said Spitzer spent more than $15,000 for several encounters with prostitutes. View a gallery of recent political sex scandals »

Both Republicans and Democrats have called for him to leave office.

"Eliot knows he cannot hold onto his job here. He might want to, but he is absolutely aware of his predicament," a Democratic source said Tuesday.

Paterson, 53, will become the first black governor in the state and the fourth in U.S. history. The former state Senate minority leader, who is legally blind, is the son of Basil Paterson, a longtime Democratic operative in New York City.

In a statement following Spitzer's announcement, Paterson called the governor a friend and said he was saddened by the news surfacing this week. Watch how details of the scandal are emerging on the Web »

"My heart goes out to him and to his family at this difficult and painful time," Paterson said. "It is now time for Albany to get back to work as the people of this state expect from us."

All About Spitzer
Time magazine names Spitzer "Crusader of the Year" during his two terms as New York attorney general.

Tabloids label him "Eliot Ness" because of his focus on corruption, white-collar criminals and organized crime.

He was an assistant district attorney in Manhattan in the 1980s and early '90s.

The first-term governor had been considered a rising star in the Democratic Party.
Though he hasn't been charged with a crime, Spitzer has begun assembling a legal team. He has chosen Michele Hirshman as his lead attorney, said Madelaine Miller, a spokeswoman for Hirshman's law firm, Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison. Watch Spitzer's apology »

Hirshman, who was the first deputy attorney general under Spitzer when he was attorney general, also is a former assistant U.S. attorney who "served as chief of the Public Corruption Unit, where she led major investigations and prosecutions of government fraud and political and police corruption," according to the law firm's Web site.

Spitzer, 48, took office in January 2007 after eight years as the state's attorney general, rising to national prominence. He built his career on rooting out public corruption and became a national figure with a series of high-profile Wall Street investigations. He also prosecuted prostitution rings. Watch how Wall Street views Spitzer scandal »

Spitzer is married with three daughters.

Sources said a federal money-laundering investigation led agents to Spitzer. According to two sources, Spitzer hit the federal radar when a bank reported to the Internal Revenue Service that a significant amount of money had been suspiciously transferred from one account to another.

After receiving the IRS report last year, the FBI corruption squad linked the account transfers to a prostitution ring, according to various sources.

The FBI criminal division joined the inquiry to look into the prostitution ring, while the federal corruption team continued its investigation into Spitzer. Investigators are focusing on how Spitzer paid for the sexual encounters, what he may have done to conceal the movement and source of the money, and whether he broke any laws doing it, sources said.


The 47-page affidavit details arrangements for a nearly 2½-hour rendezvous between Client 9 and a prostitute -- identified only as "Kristen" -- at a Washington hotel in February.

A source identified the hotel as the Mayflower. Sources said Spitzer rented two rooms, one under the name of a political donor, George Fox. There Spitzer is said to have met with the prostitute from New York. Watch breakdown of key dates in Spitzer scandal »

The affidavit alleges that Client 9 paid for the prostitute to travel from New York to Washington. The Mann Act makes it a federal offense to take someone across state lines for the purpose of prostitution.

The Emperors Club, for which officials said the prostitute worked, charged between $1,000 and $5,500 an hour and operated in New York; Los Angeles, California; Miami, Florida; London, England; and Paris, France, according to court papers released by prosecutors last week.

Authorities learned more about the inner workings of the prostitution ring by using wiretaps and accessing text messages, according to the affidavit.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/12/spitzer/index.html#cnnSTCText

[JWS]

I can also understand that having a (half) black man in the White House also sends a resoundingly powerful message for blacks. But then again, blacks only comprise approximately 10-15% of the overall U.S. population. They are a significant voting bloc, especially on the Dem side, but not nearly as significant as the female bloc.

This is way off-topic, but I have a tendency to believe some of what Geraldine Ferraro has said about Obama (that he would not have come this far politically as a non-black man). I would further add that if Edwards was black, he would have handed both Clinton and Obama their asses. Obama is a great speaker, but his hubris and gravitas appear to be a bit unfounded given his paucity of experience, especially when it comes to foreign and economic matters. As a result, to me he comes across as being too cocky to admit that he doesn't know everything ala GWB. We don't need another 8 years of that.


I agree with a lot of what you say...but what's the alternative? Eight more years of Republican mismanagement and fiscal irresponsibility.

[strandinthewind]

I have to say that as a female, after reading your comments in here that seeinng those words followed by a light hearted laughing thing is coming off as very insulting.

I mean it as humor, which you seem to be lacking on this issue. You could always put me on ignore :shrug:

I suggest, however, you are either being too sensitive or ignoring the truth, though it could be both. Again, if you do not want to think that some older men like to bird dog to fruition or not younger hotties when their spouses are old, fat and difficult, you are entitled to think that. But, that does not make it any less true.

[HejiraNYC]

I agree with a lot of what you say...but what's the alternative? Eight more years of Republican mismanagement and fiscal irresponsibility.

Well... unfortunately it's the lesser of evils. It's a shame we couldn't pick and choose bits and pieces of each of the candidates. I loved Ron Paul's position on the war and economy, but otherwise he was an NRA gun-crazy right wing pro-life bigoted nutjob. I loved Kucinich's stand on every social issue, especially full gay marriage rights, but I think he was too far left to gain bipartisan support on anything. I like Hillary because of her gritty determination and her ability to play the political game; however, she lacks charisma and her healthcare plan stinks. I like Obama's speeches and he looks good in a suit, but that's about it. :lol:

In the end, although I don't care for some of her positions and her fuzzy stand on some issues, I think it's Clinton by default, if for no other reason than the fact that a woman will inherently bring a tidal wave of change to the office. She can be stubborn like a man, but I also think she has a certain sincerety/vulnerability that can be persuasive. I like the fact that she can take an issue like "don't ask, don't tell" and admit that it was just a stepping stone toward the goal of gays in the military. There is a larger left agenda at work, and she and Bill are insiders who know how to toe the party line. And most importantly, they know that their enemies will stop at nothing to defame them and the Dems. Like the old saying goes, it's better to be closer to your enemies than your friends.

[strandinthewind]

. . . This is way off-topic, but I have a tendency to believe some of what Geraldine Ferraro has said about Obama (that he would not have come this far politically as a non-black man). I would further add that if Edwards was black, he would have handed both Clinton and Obama their asses. Obama is a great speaker, but his hubris and gravitas appear to be a bit unfounded given his paucity of experience, especially when it comes to foreign and economic matters. As a result, to me he comes across as being too cocky to admit that he doesn't know everything ala GWB. We don't need another 8 years of that.

I agree with you about Ferraro, though I think it was unwise of her to say it as she is white, etc. I mean Sec. Powell and Sec. Rice IMO earned their day in the sun. I say this even though I disagreed and disagree with much of their doings. Conversely, BO has done little while in the Senate and seemingly is talking a good game while he surrounds himself with lobbyists. I suppose I have seen the song and dance before so I ain't a buyin it this time. And, I voted for him because even though I think he is a sham, I still have hope that maybe he is not.

[strandinthewind]

That's incredibly insulting! My mother was an attractive young woman and I hesitate to say it but she aged and you know, she's not "attractive" in her late 50s. Is she supposed to accept that because of this fact her husband is going to cheat on her (and I should add that the exact same thing has happened to him, he has numerous chins, grey hair and a belly)? If I can't admit that this is a given, that he's going to stray then i'm hysterical. That's so incredibly sexist and insulting to women and also most of the men I know, men married to these older women who remain devoted. A famous example is the McCartney's. Linda was an attractive young woman but being the wife of a Beatle didn't make her exempt from aging and her face sagged and all the rest of it. His devotion to her could not be questioned and he'd probably want to spit in your face if you repeated that line about women being hysterical if they can't admit that it's natural for men of his age to stray because she no longer looked like a model.

And as others mentioned, is it hysterical if a man won't admit that a middle aged woman is going to cheat on her middle aged husband with a young man? of course it's not hysterical.

Someone else raised the good point that men (or women) cheat because they're cheaters with the example of Hugh Grant. Blaming the woman's looks or even saying it's the obvious reason why it happened is appalling.


Blah Blah Blah - if you want to think that - go right ahead.

Again, I said, if you had bothered to read my comments, that it is not all men cwho heat and people (men and women) cheat for different reasons, one (did you get that -- ONE -- ) and IMO the primary one, of which is the wife loses her attraction for him. If you think that never happens, then, yes, I find that hysterical. You should too.

[strandinthewind]

I agree with a lot of what you say...but what's the alternative? Eight more years of Republican mismanagement and fiscal irresponsibility.

I somehow doubt that McCain would be nearly as bad as W in those areas. In fact, I think Hillary and BO would be slightly worse in the fiscal management side because they are going to gun to big business and anyone making over $100,000 a year, which is sad to me because without those two, the bulk of the spending and employment will lessen. I agree that the poor (say $30,000 or less a year) should pay no tax, which is why I am for the fairtax (www.fairtax.org) which gives prebates to ensure that.

[HejiraNYC]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/12/nyregion/12spitz4-600.jpg

MUCH improved, Mrs. Wall Spitzer. You go, grrrrl!

[strandinthewind]

. . . And as others mentioned, is it hysterical if a man won't admit that a middle aged woman is going to cheat on her middle aged husband with a young man? of course it's not hysterical . . . .

Yes, it is, though the man has no uterus.

[strandinthewind]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/12/nyregion/12spitz4-600.jpg

MUCH improved, Mrs. Wall Spitzer. You go, grrrrl!

Amen!!!!!!!!

Did Hillary stand upp with Bill during his "I HAVE SIIIINNNEED" speech? I do not think she did. I think she was not seen for a month or so to give the appearance, heartfelt or not, of being wounded, which she said she was in her book. Of course, ES, the former AG of NY, hired hookers and illegally structured money to pay for them as opposed to Clinton who just got a hummer and used innovation with a cigar on fat chick in his employee in the Oval office, which is less offensive to me, but not all.

[strandinthewind]

"Keep Young And Beautiful"

What's cute about little cutie
It's her beauty, not brains
Old father time will never harm you
If your charm still remains
After you grow old, baby

Keep young and beautiful
It's your duty to be beautiful
Keep young and beautiful
If you want to be loved

If you're wise exercise all the fat off
Take it off, off of here, off of there
When you'er seen anywhere
With you hat off
Wear a marcel wave in your hair

Take care of all those charms
And you'll always be in someone's arms
Keep young and beautiful
If you want to be loved

If you're wise exercise all the fat off
Take it off, off of here, off of there
When you'er seen anywhere
With you hat off
Wear a marcel wave in your hair

Keep young and beautiful
It's your duty to be beautiful
Keep young and beautiful
If you want to be loved

Keep young and beautiful
If you want to be loved
Boopie doo, ah
_____________________________________________________

Couldn't Resist :D

[SuzeQuze]

Amen!!!!!!!!

Did Hillary stand upp with Bill during his "I HAVE SIIIINNNEED" speech? I do not think she did. I think she was not seen for a month or so to give the appearance, heartfelt or not, of being wounded, which she said she was in her book. Of course, ES, the former AG of NY, hired hookers and illegally structured money to pay for them as opposed to Clinton who just got a hummer and used innovation with a cigar on fat chick in his employee in the Oval office, which is less offensive to me, but not all.

I don't think she did either. She had just gone on national television a day or two before, on The Today Show or Good Morning America to speak to his innocense and a vast right-wing conspiracy. As far as her marriage I don't think it's a "real" marriage anymore. If it is then I don't know how she does it. There's just so much humiliation there. AND ML was hardly "fat" although she wasn't skinny either. You just like to be controversial dammit.

[strandinthewind]

I don't think she did either. She had just gone on national television a day or two before, on The Today Show or Good Morning America to speak to his innocense and a vast right-wing conspiracy. As far as her marriage I don't think it's a "real" marriage anymore. If it is then I don't know how she does it. There's just so much humiliation there. AND ML was hardly "fat" although she wasn't skinny either. You just like to be controversial dammit.

I think Bill and Hill do like each other and their ambition is their real love.

As for the vast RW conspiracy, she was not too off on that. Even though Bill strayed and strayed often, it was not really anything but a private matter until he lied under oath about it. Remember, they storm troopered her, locked her in a room for hours, etc. before she made her deal and sold Billy C. down the road -- all of which had nothing to do with Whitewater or really anything to the main or any significant ancillary point to anything at hand. It was a witch hunt pure and simple. I readily admit that Bill C. handed his head to them when he lied under oath and used his administration and the taxpayers' money to perpetuate that lie until the DNA testing (I mean really) rendered him caught. But, no other politician in history has ever had that much scrutiny :shrug:

Yes, Lewinsky was a big boned gal, but he seemed to be into that and she had youth, which is always beguiling. Plus, compared to Hillary . . . . . . :eek: Also, comparing the traditional cheating husband to Bill C. is IMO a little bit apples and oranges. He was a known philanderder and she was resigned to accepting it.

[SuzeQuze]

I think Bill and Hill do like each other and their ambition is their real love.

As for the vast RW conspiracy, she was not too off on that. Even though Bill strayed and strayed often, it was not really anything but a private matter until he lied under oath about it. Remember, they storm troopered her, locked her in a room for hours, etc. before she made her deal and sold Billy C. down the road -- all of which had nothing to do with Whitewater or really anything to the main or any significant ancillary point to anything at hand. It was a witch hunt pure and simple. I readily admit that Bill C. handed his head to them when he lied under oath and used his administration and the taxpayers' money to perpetuate that lie until the DNA testing (I mean really) rendered him caught. But, no other politician in history has ever had that much scrutiny :shrug:

Yes, Lewinsky was a big boned gal, but he seemed to be into that and she had youth, which is always beguiling. Plus, compared to Hillary . . . . . . :eek: Also, comparing the traditional cheating husband to Bill C. is IMO a little bit apples and oranges. He was a known philanderder and she was resigned to accepting it.

Believe me, I don't disagree that the conspiracy was real. But Bill lying to her put her in that position to be humiliated. What an ass.

[strandinthewind]

Believe me, I don't disagree that the conspiracy was real. But Bill lying to her put her in that position to be humiliated. What an ass.

I agree. I also think, though, that while she may have had some affection for Bill C., ML certainly was not scared to go for the pecuniary jugular when given the chance, and, quite frankly, I do not blame her. I find it hystercial when she says she did not do that :rolleyes:

[strandinthewind]

Not to mention sleeping with Winnie the Poo! :lol:

The beloved. She currently is staying with me for awhile. She loves to be loved (and wouldn't you love to love her :cool: ) as you know!

[SuzeQuze]

The beloved. She currently is staying with me for awhile. She loves to be loved (and wouldn't you love to love her :cool: ) as you know!

She is awesome. Mufasa is curled up beside me with his paw on his nose, very cute and sweet.

[strandinthewind]

For those interested, here is an article about Ferraro's comments:

Ferraro: My comment wasn't racist, it was fact

From Rebecca Sinderbrand

CNN Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- An unapologetic Geraldine Ferraro said Wednesday that her comments about the impact of Barack Obama's race on the electorate were taken out of context, and she stands by her words.

Ferraro stirred controversy with her recent remarks that Obama's campaign was successful because he was black.

"It wasn't a racist comment, it was a statement of fact," she said on CBS' "The Early Show," adding that she would leave Hillary Clinton's national finance committee if she were asked, but would not stop raising money for the New York senator's presidential bid.

She also blamed Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod, for misinterpreting her remarks.

Ferraro also told ABC's "Good Morning America" that "every time" someone makes a negative comment about Obama, they are accused of racism. Watch Ferraro's interview »

Late Tuesday, she told interviewer that she felt she was being attacked because she was white.

"Any time anybody does anything that in any way pulls this campaign down and says let's address reality and the problems we're facing in this world, you're accused of being racist, so you have to shut up," she told the Daily Breeze of Torrance, California. "Racism works in two different directions. I really think they're attacking me because I'm white. How's that?"

In another interview Tuesday, Ferraro compared Obama's situation with her own 24 years ago, when she was the first female candidate for vice president.

She told a Fox News interviewer: "I got up and the question was asked, 'Why do you think Barack Obama is in the place he is today?'

"I said in large measure, because he is black. I said, Let me also say in 1984 -- and if I have said it once, I have said it 20, 60, 100 times -- in 1984, if my name was Gerard Ferraro instead of Geraldine Ferraro, I would never have been the nominee for vice president," she said.

In her first interview with Daily Breeze, published late last week, Ferraro said: "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman, he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept," Ferraro told the newspaper. She also said Hillary Clinton had been the victim of a "sexist media."

Obama himself has called the comments "patently absurd," and his chief strategist, David Axelrod, has called for Clinton to cut ties with the former New York congresswoman, who serves on her campaign's finance committee.

Clinton has said that she does not agree with Ferraro's remarks.

Clinton campaign spokesman Mo Eleithee told CNN's Sasha Johnson Tuesday evening that "Ms. Ferraro is speaking for herself. We have made clear that we do not agree with her remarks."

The former congresswoman is the latest Clinton surrogate to launch a firestorm with comments that related to Obama's heritage or ethnicity. Watch a panel discuss Ferraro's comments »

Black leaders sharply criticized Clinton's husband, former President Clinton, for comments he made before the South Carolina primary, including comparing Obama's campaign with the Rev. Jesse Jackson's 1984 run.

Former Nebraska Sen. Bob Kerrey, a major Clinton backer, said several times that an Obama presidency would improve the world's image of the United States because of the Illinois senator's Muslim roots.

Obama, who is Christian, said Kerrey's comments were intended to highlight Obama's Muslim heritage in voters' minds.

Shortly before the Texas primary, 84-year-old Clinton supporter Adelfa Callejo told CBS 11 News in Dallas, Texas, that Obama would have trouble attracting Latino support because he was African-American.

"When blacks had the numbers, they didn't do anything to support us," Callejo said. "They always used our numbers to fulfill their goals and objectives, but they never really supported us, and there's a lot of hard feelings about that. I don't think we're going to get over it anytime soon."

Last month, when Clinton was asked whether she would reject and denounce Callejo's remarks, she said, "People get to express their opinions," adding that "a lot of folks have said really unpleasant things about me over the course of this campaign."

Later, her campaign released a statement saying that she had been unaware of the substance of the remarks during that interview and both denounced and rejected them.

Obama has faced his own headaches. Foreign policy adviser Samantha Power ended her connection with his campaign last week after telling a Scottish interviewer that Clinton was a "monster."

Power also made remarks about Obama's Iraq war policy that were used by the Clinton campaign in recent attacks.

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/12/ferraro.comments/index.html

[JWS]

"I said in large measure, because he is black. I said, Let me also say in 1984 -- and if I have said it once, I have said it 20, 60, 100 times -- in 1984, if my name was Gerard Ferraro instead of Geraldine Ferraro, I would never have been the nominee for vice president," she said.

How true. It was also a throw away election for the Democrats. Nobody was beating Reagan in '84.

[strandinthewind]

How true. It was also a throw away election for the Democrats. Nobody was beating Reagan in '84.

Especially not with Walter Mondale :eek:

The D's are so inept at times that they could fukc up a wet dream :laugh:

[JWS]

Especially not with Walter Mondale :eek:

The D's are so inept at times that they could fukc up a wet dream :laugh:

Especially this year. I'm hoping for Al Gore to come forward at the convention after Hillary and Obama burn each other out.

[HejiraNYC]

That face, that face... make him stop!

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/12/nyregion/12spitz5-511.jpg

[gldstwmn]

Woman at the Center of Governor’s Downfall

By SERGE F. KOVALESKI and IAN URBINA
Published: March 13, 2008
She left a broken home on the Jersey Shore at 17 and came to New York City to work the nightclubs as a rhythm and blues singer. Now, at 22, she is the unwitting, and as yet unseen, star of the seamy drama that is the downfall of Gov. Eliot Spitzer of New York.

Kristen, the high-priced prostitute described in a federal affidavit as having had a rendezvous with Mr. Spitzer on Feb. 13 at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, has spent the last few days in her ninth-floor apartment in the Flatiron district of Manhattan. On Monday, she made a brief appearance in federal court, where a lawyer was appointed to represent her. She is expected to be a witness in the case against four people charged with operating a prostitution ring called the Emperor’s Club V.I.P.

In a series of telephone interviews on Tuesday night, she said she had slept very little over the past week, with all the stress of the case.

“I just don’t want to be thought of as a monster,” the woman said as she told the tiniest tidbits of her story.

Born Ashley Youmans but now known as Ashley Alexandra Dupré, she spoke softly and with good humor as she added with significant understatement: “This has been a very difficult time. It is complicated.”

She has not been charged. The lawyer appointed to represent her, Don D. Buchwald, told a magistrate judge in court on Monday that she had been subpoenaed to testify in a grand jury investigation. Asked to swear that she had accurately filled out and signed a financial affidavit, she responded affirmatively.

A person with knowledge of the Emperor’s Club operation confirmed that the woman interviewed by The New York Times was the woman identified as Kristen in the affidavit. Mr. Buchwald confirmed various details of Ms. Dupré’s background but would not discuss the contents of the affidavit.

Ms. Dupré said by telephone Tuesday night that she was worried about how she would pay her rent since the man she was living with “walked out on me” after she discovered he had fathered two children. She said she was considering working at a friend’s restaurant or, once her apartment lease expires, moving back with her family in New Jersey “to relax.”

She did not say when she had started working for the Emperor’s Club, or how often she had liaisons arranged through the ring. Asked when she met Governor Spitzer and how many times they had seen each other, Ms. Dupre said she had no comment.

On her MySpace page, Ms. Dupré writes of her “odyssey to New York from New Jersey through North Carolina, Miami, D.C., Virginia and Austin, Texas;” public records show that she lived in Belmar, N.J., in 2001, and in North Carolina in 2003. She owns a company, created in 2005, called Pasche New York, which her lawyer said was an entertainment business designed to further her singing career.

Music is her first love, and on the MySpace page, Ms. Dupré mentions Patsy Cline, Frank Sinatra, Christina Aguilera and Lauryn Hill among a long list of influences, including her brother, Kyle. (She also lists Whitney Houston, Madonna, Mary J. Blige and Amy Winehouse as her top MySpace friends.) In the interview, she said she saw the Rolling Stones perform at Radio City Music Hall on their last tour after a friend gave her two of tickets. “They were amazing,” she said.

On MySpace, her page says: “I am all about my music and my music is all about me. It flows from what I’ve been through, what I’ve seen and how I feel.”

She left “a broken family” at age 17, having been abused, according to the MySpace page, and has used drugs and “been broke and homeless.”

“Learned what it was like to have everything and lose it, again and again,” she writes. “Learned what it was like to wake up one day and have the people you care about most gone.

“But I made it,” she continues. “I’m still here and I love who I am. If I never went through the hard times, I would not be able to appreciate the good ones. Cliché, yes, but I know it’s true.”

Ms. Dupré’s mother, Carolyn Capalbo, 46, said her daughter attended Wall High School in Monmouth County until her sophomore year, when she moved to North Carolina. “She was a young kid with typical teenage rebellion issues, but we are extremely close now,” Ms. Capalbo said in a telephone interview Wednesday.

In 2006, Ms. Dupré changed her legal name, according to records in Monmouth County Superior Court, from Ashley R. Youmans to Ashley Rae Maika DiPietro, taking her stepfather’s surname since she regarded him as “the only father I have known.” But in the interview, she referred to herself as Ashley Alexandra Dupré, which is how she is known on MySpace.

On the Web page is a recording of what she describes as her latest track, “What We Want,” a hip-hop-inflected rhythm-and-blues tune that asks, “Can you handle me, boy?” and uses some dated slang, calling someone her “boo.”

“I know what you want, you got what I want,” she sings in the chorus. “I know what you need. Can you handle me?”

Her MySpace biography says she started singing professionally after a musician she was living with heard her singing the Aretha Franklin hit “Respect” in the shower and burst into the bathroom with his lead guitarist. She says she toured and recorded with them, then moved to Manhattan in 2004 and “spent the first two years getting to know the music scene, networking in clubs and connecting with the industry.

“Now it’s all about my music, it’s all about expressing me.”

In the affidavit, the woman the Emperor’s Club called Kristen is described as “an American, petite, very pretty brunette, 5 feet 5 inches, and 105 pounds.” She apparently was booked at about $1,000 an hour, placing her in the middle of the seven-diamond scale by which Emperor’s prostitutes were paid up to $4,300 an hour.

Ms. Capalbo said that she was “shell-shocked” when her daughter called in the middle of last week and told her she had been working as an escort and was now in trouble with the law. She said she was not sure that Ms. Dupré realized who Mr. Spitzer was when he was her client.

“She is a very bright girl who can handle someone like the governor,” Ms. Capalbo said. “But she also is a 22-year-old, not a 32-year-old or a 42-year-old, and she obviously got involved in something much larger than her.”

<a href="http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a397/peekingsleeping/?action=view&current=girl_190_3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a397/peekingsleeping/girl_190_3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a397/peekingsleeping/?action=view&current=girl_190_2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a397/peekingsleeping/girl_190_2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a397/peekingsleeping/?action=view&current=girl_190_1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a397/peekingsleeping/girl_190_1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[strandinthewind]

^^^

She is nice looking and, of course, has youth on her side. I would not pay 1,000 and hour though. Then again, I would never pay that for anything :laugh: I wonder if she is double jointed, has a snapping vag. , or something :eek:

Let's see how many of the Sisters of the V. bag on her by calling her ugly :laugh:

[petep9000]

That face, that face... make him stop!

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/12/nyregion/12spitz5-511.jpg

Arrrggh. If I even see anyone in my real-life now sporting 'The Face', I'm going to embarass myself in public.

But, look at Mrs. Spitzer with the Hermes scarf. So chic.

[buckymcnix]

Well at least Dr. Laura is on your side.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/11/dr-laura-blames-spitzer_n_90994.html

(The good Dr. on The Today Show.)

VIEIRA: Do you think women play any role in this, Dr. Laura?

SCHLESSINGER: It's interesting. what you said about what men need -- men do need validation. When they come into the world they're born of a woman. Getting the validation from mommy is the beginning of needing it from a woman. When the wife does not focus in on the needs and the feelings sexually, personally, to make him feel like a man, to make him feel like a success, to make him feel like our hero, he's very susceptible to the charm of some other woman making him feel what he needs. These days, women don't spend a lot of time thinking about how they can give their men what they need.

VIEIRA: Are you saying women should feel guilty, like they somehow drove the man to cheat?

SCHLESSINGER: You know what, the cheating was his decision to repair what's damaged, and to feed himself where he's starving. But, yes, I hold women accountable for tossing out perfectly good men by not treating them with the love and kindness and respect and attention they need.

[strandinthewind]

Well at least Dr. Laura is on your side.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/11/dr-laura-blames-spitzer_n_90994.html

(The good Dr. on The Today Show.)

VIEIRA: Do you think women play any role in this, Dr. Laura?

SCHLESSINGER: It's interesting. what you said about what men need -- men do need validation. When they come into the world they're born of a woman. Getting the validation from mommy is the beginning of needing it from a woman. When the wife does not focus in on the needs and the feelings sexually, personally, to make him feel like a man, to make him feel like a success, to make him feel like our hero, he's very susceptible to the charm of some other woman making him feel what he needs. These days, women don't spend a lot of time thinking about how they can give their men what they need.

VIEIRA: Are you saying women should feel guilty, like they somehow drove the man to cheat?

SCHLESSINGER: You know what, the cheating was his decision to repair what's damaged, and to feed himself where he's starving. But, yes, I hold women accountable for tossing out perfectly good men by not treating them with the love and kindness and respect and attention they need.

Well, although "Dr." Laura is an ingnorant tw*t, there is some truth to what she says here. I am not - repeat NOT - saying that a wife has to be a clinging vine. I am saying that a wife should support her husband and vice versa for that matter. So, her conclusion is correct in that regard. Put it this way, who would want to stay with a spouse who did not support them or treat them "with the love and kindness and respect and attention they need," especially when there is another willing and able to give it?

I do not for the most part agree with her premise about mens' needs. I think most men cheat (again not all men) because they want to sport f*ck - pure and simple. Now, when it is not just sport fukcing and a man leaves a woman for another woman and is talking marriage and all that, then it is not just about the fukcing; though I submit that is still a part of it because usually you have to like having sex with your partner :D

Interestingly, for those women who disagree with "Dr." Laura here, I wonder if they think that behind every good man is a good woman, which is in essence what this idiot is saying.

In the end, relationships are give and take; they are all about support, compromise, and intrigue. When those factors wane beyond repair, the problems start, which is what I have been saying all along for great consternation amongst the phillies around here.

[gldstwmn]

Well at least Dr. Laura is on your side.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/11/dr-laura-blames-spitzer_n_90994.html

(The good Dr. on The Today Show.)

VIEIRA: Do you think women play any role in this, Dr. Laura?

SCHLESSINGER: It's interesting. what you said about what men need -- men do need validation. When they come into the world they're born of a woman. Getting the validation from mommy is the beginning of needing it from a woman. When the wife does not focus in on the needs and the feelings sexually, personally, to make him feel like a man, to make him feel like a success, to make him feel like our hero, he's very susceptible to the charm of some other woman making him feel what he needs. These days, women don't spend a lot of time thinking about how they can give their men what they need.

VIEIRA: Are you saying women should feel guilty, like they somehow drove the man to cheat?

SCHLESSINGER: You know what, the cheating was his decision to repair what's damaged, and to feed himself where he's starving. But, yes, I hold women accountable for tossing out perfectly good men by not treating them with the love and kindness and respect and attention they need.

Not this hag again. :rolleyes:

[gldstwmn]

But, look at Mrs. Spitzer with the Hermes scarf. So chic.

She also has that "I'm about to cut someone's balls off" look in her eyes. :lol:

[SuzeQuze]

Not this hag again. :rolleyes:

Exactly, talk about a hack. She does have a point about being supportive, but not being supportive enough doesn't drive a normal guy to a prostitute. It just doesn't happen.

[gldstwmn]

Exactly, talk about a hack.

I wonder if I got a PhD in physical therapy, would I get my own radio show and be qualified as an expert on male/female relationships?

[JWS]

Exactly, talk about a hack. She does have a point about being supportive, but not being supportive enough doesn't drive a normal guy to a prostitute. It just doesn't happen.

The right word is QUACK.

[petep9000]

She also has that "I'm about to cut someone's balls off" look in her eyes. :lol:


And she'll look fierce doing it. That modified 'nautical' look is working for her. It just says "MAN OVERBOARD!!!!"

[HejiraNYC]

And the lady in question is... Ashley Youmans, aka "Ashley Alexandra Dupree."

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/12/nyregion/girl_190_2.jpg

I guess she's cute in that Jewish-chick-from-Morristown, New Jersey kinda way, but she's definitely not $1000/hr material. I was expecting a Playmate-calibre girl, not Melissa Rivers. :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

And the lady in question is... Ashley Youmans, aka "Ashley Alexandra Dupree."

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/12/nyregion/girl_190_2.jpg

I guess she's cute in that Jewish-chick-from-Morristown, New Jersey kinda way, but she's definitely not $1000/hr material. I was expecting a Playmate-calibre girl, not Melissa Rivers. :shrug:

There are way better pics of her out there - like here:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/strandinthewind/0312082100_M_kristen9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/strandinthewind/0312082100_M_kristen6_450.jpg

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,3545,00.html#9_0

Although pretty and with a hot body, she is no raving beauty. She looks a little like Angie Harmon - maybe its the hair. It would be a trip to meet her and see if she has any interpersonal skills and if so, what they are.

In the end, she looks like this chick I sat next to on the train on the way to Westport who was talking NON-STOP on her cell to her friend Miriam Fleischbaum (sp.?) about the outlet malls, sex, and plastic surgery - all while baking at the ticket taker who interupted the oh so important conversation - UGH!

[petep9000]

And the lady in question is... Ashley Youmans, aka "Ashley Alexandra Dupree."

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/12/nyregion/girl_190_2.jpg

I guess she's cute in that Jewish-chick-from-Morristown, New Jersey kinda way, but she's definitely not $1000/hr material. I was expecting a Playmate-calibre girl, not Melissa Rivers. :shrug:

Hmm, why did you post an old picture of Danielle Brisbois, who played Stephanie on 'All In The Family'?

[buckymcnix]

Exactly, talk about a hack. She does have a point about being supportive, but not being supportive enough doesn't drive a normal guy to a prostitute. It just doesn't happen.

Agreed.

But once again, I don't understand why it's her supportiveness that is being questioned because he cheated. How supportive of her was HE while he was cheating. I didn't see the whole interview but I hope she spent some time on his part of the equation.

and now that we have heard the "it's part the wife's fault for letting herself go" argument I am waiting for the "it's partially the prostitutes fault for being so alluring and available" argument. I know it's coming. :(

[HejiraNYC]

Hmm, why did you post an old picture of Danielle Brisbois, who played Stephanie on 'All In The Family'?

Did you know she produced that horridious Natasha Bedingfield song "Unwritten?" :eek: I found her annoying then and now I find her extremely annoying.

[SuzeQuze]

And the lady in question is... Ashley Youmans, aka "Ashley Alexandra Dupree."

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/12/nyregion/girl_190_2.jpg

I guess she's cute in that Jewish-chick-from-Morristown, New Jersey kinda way, but she's definitely not $1000/hr material. I was expecting a Playmate-calibre girl, not Melissa Rivers. :shrug:

I thought she was getting $4k per hour? Also, she's not made up or anything in these pictures.

[strandinthewind]

I thought she was getting $4k per hour? Also, she's not made up or anything in these pictures.

The $4,000 is a shell game by the way. Many times they offer the same girl with diffferent names and descriptions and possibly different photos with the girl looking differently - at different price levels. Or, they sell the girl to one guy for one price and another for higher price - it is not like the customers are going to comnpare notes :laugh:

[HejiraNYC]

I thought she was getting $4k per hour? Also, she's not made up or anything in these pictures.

I believe that she was getting $4K for the entire session, which is a 4-hour minimum. Child, for $4K an hour I would be running to Penn Station and riding the Acela down to the Mayflower Hotel! :p :eek:

[Steviefan49]

I thought she was getting $4k per hour? Also, she's not made up or anything in these pictures.

I'm not going to say she's "ugly".. as I think she's a cute girl.. Just nothing I would pay $1k per hour for, for sure.. :lol: I'd gladly take that $1k and spend it on something usefull, like a mink dog collar or something, for my pet! lmao:lol:

[buckymcnix]

Hey strand -
where did your post go?

I signed on to respond and it was gone.

That makes it a bit harder. :lol:

No - I wasn't aiming that at you, more at Dr. Laura. She said it was partially the fault of an unsupportive wife.


and yes I do believe that unsupportive spouses can chase people into the arms of anothr, my point is that it seems to be the woman seems to be under more scrutiny than he is. There isn't any basis for scrutiny of her. It's all conjecture.

With him, there are solid misdeeds done TO her. If it was so bad with his wife, then shouldn't HE have been the one to man-up and set her free? Nope, he cheated, knowing full well what the repurcussions could be for a man who was so "anti-crime".

The reverse of the sisterhood. the brotherhood is looking for excuses why a man would break his solemn vow.

On the contrary, the "phillies" on this board seem to have a varying opinion.

I think some others have made some pretty grievous remarks in this thread.

You generally argue your point with lots of researched info and you stay far from generalizations. My only real gripe with you in this thread, is how you keep painting all the females around here with one brush when it comes to "bad men" issues. Saying you find it hysterical if someone can't see and agree with a point you are making. Literally lauging at people for not seeing your point. It just seems disrespectful. Typically, not your style. ;)

I know I babble on and on but i hope that was clear.
:wavey:

[DavidMn]

I dunno. I'd give her an 8 out of 10 at least, but thats just me. I think she's gorgeous.

[strandinthewind]

I believe that she was getting $4K for the entire session, which is a 4-hour minimum. Child, for $4K an hour I would be running to Penn Station and riding the Acela down to the Mayflower Hotel! :p :eek:

I know :laugh:

[HejiraNYC]

And as for that "unsafe" act in question, I suspect...

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/04/03/23050304.jpg

:shrug:

[DavidMn]

And as for that "unsafe" act in question, I suspect...

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/04/03/23050304.jpg

:shrug:Hey, I wanna eat lunch soon!:laugh:

[HejiraNYC]

I know :laugh:

Oh, and you wouldn't?

[strandinthewind]

Hey strand -
where did your post go?

I signed on to respond and it was gone.

That makes it a bit harder. :lol:

No - I wasn't aiming that at you, more at Dr. Laura. She said it was partially the fault of an unsupportive wife.


and yes I do believe that unsupportive spouses can chase people into the arms of anothr, my point is that it seems to be the woman seems to be under more scrutiny than he is. There isn't anything to basis for any scrutiny of her. It's all conjecture.

With him, there are solid misdeeds done TO her. If it was so bad with his wife, then shouldn't HE have been the one to man-up and set her free? Nope, he cheated, knowing full well what the repurcussions could be for a man who was so "anti-crime".

The reverse of the sisterhood. the brotherhood is looking for excuses why a man would break his solemn vow.

On the contrary, the "phillies" on this board seem to have a varying opinion.

I think some others have made some pretty grievous remarks in this thread.

You generally argue your point with lots of researched info and you stay far from generalizations. My only real gripe with you in this thread, is how you keep painting all the females around here with one brush when it comes to "bad men" issues. Saying you find it hysterical if someone can't see and agree with a point you are making. Literally lauging at people for not seeing your point. It just seems disrespectful. Typically, not your style. ;)

I know I babble on and on but i hope that was clear.
:wavey:

I took it down because I though it was too confrontational given that I realized I was not really addressing your post.

I do agree with you though that although he is removed from power in disgrace, it seems the soon to be ex-gov. is not being attacked seemingly as much as she is both here and in the media. He was a stupid a$$ for doing this and apparently hurt this poor woman.

I do think it is fair to discuss what went wrong, if anything, in their marriage to being him to this point of stupidity. But, we have no real evidence to support any theories other than this chick's statments about the unsafe stuff, which could be extrapolated into a reason. So, the question inevitably becomes what did she do wrong, which is horrifying isn't it.

[strandinthewind]

Oh, and you wouldn't?

Are you kidding me - I'd piss on a spark plug to get that gig :cool:

[strandinthewind]

I'm not going to say she's "ugly . . .

Interestingly, I do not think there are any ugly people. I think all human beings have some entity of beauty - though some more than others. I usually use "ugly" in terms of behavior, deeds, etc. For example, the soon to be ex gov.'s acts were ugly to me.

[strandinthewind]

And as for that "unsafe" act in question, I suspect...

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/04/03/23050304.jpg

:shrug:

Well, Carrie apparently has a strap on and a water resistant magic marker :shrug:

Interestingly, could it be the soon to be ex gov. is a closet case homo.? I have gotten that vibe from him before.

[HejiraNYC]

Well, Carrie apparently has a strap on and a water resistant magic marker :shrug:

Interestingly, could it be the soon to be ex gov. is a closet case homo.? I have gotten that vibe from him before.

I don't think a man has to be gay in order to enjoy that sorta thing. I tend to think that a lot of men want it (the salad, not Carrie's appendage! :p ) but are ashamed to admit it. And I suspect that there are very, very few women who are willing to place their mouths in that forbidden area, which leads me to believe that this would command such a high price tag.

[strandinthewind]

I don't think a man has to be gay in order to enjoy that sorta thing. I tend to think that a lot of men want it (the salad, not Carrie's appendage! :p ) but are ashamed to admit it. And I suspect that there are very, very few women who are willing to place their mouths in that forbidden area, which leads me to believe that this would command such a high price tag.

I bet Miriam Fleischbaum would have done it for half that price - though the discourse he'd have had to have put up with would lessen the bargain.

Also, I just read that she lives in Chelsea at The Chelsea Landmark on West 25th St. Lord Child - you may have to haul it up the 20 or so blocks and see what's happening - it being on the way to Penn Station and all :cool:

[petep9000]

We've evolved into salad-tossing on this board. What other prison lingo can we throw in? How about potato-chippin'? Shrimpin'?

[HejiraNYC]

We've evolved into salad-tossing on this board. What other prison lingo can we throw in? How about potato-chippin'? Shrimpin'?

I was also thinking it could have been this:

http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_145000/FF_145794_l.jpg

...but not only is it really obscure, it's really disgusting. :eek: However, for some odd reason I would have a newfound respect for our governor. :lol:

[strandinthewind]

. . . How about potato-chippin'? . . . .

It takes too long :eek:

Where is that thread from long ago where all the deviant act - from Dirty Sanchez's on down were discussed - good time!

[HejiraNYC]

I bet Miriam Fleischbaum would have done it for half that price - though the discourse he'd have had to have put up with would lessen the bargain.

Also, I just read that she lives in Chelsea at The Chelsea Landmark on West 25th St. Lord Child - you may have to haul it up the 20 or so blocks and see what's happening - it being on the way to Penn Station and all :cool:

So that's how they can afford to live in that expensive building! :eek: Ashley must have been rated at least 3 diamonds or higher.

[strandinthewind]

I was also thinking it could have been this:

http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_145000/FF_145794_l.jpg

...but not only is it really obscure, it's really disgusting. :eek: However, for some odd reason I would have a newfound respect for our governor. :lol:

ROTFLMAO - here's your Belgium chocolate - thank you Graham Norton :eek:

[strandinthewind]

So that's how they can afford to live in that expensive building! :eek: Ashley must have been rated at least 3 diamonds or higher.

Maybe she does the front office to pay the $5,000 + a month rent :shrug:

[SuzeQuze]

I'm not going to say she's "ugly".. as I think she's a cute girl.. Just nothing I would pay $1k per hour for, for sure.. :lol: I'd gladly take that $1k and spend it on something usefull, like a mink dog collar or something, for my pet! lmao:lol:

Well I was just thinking if you put that bitch in a cocktail dress and do her hair and makeup she would probably look pretty fierce. But I wouldn't pay for her either. Here's to not having to pay for it. (raises glass)

[SuzeQuze]

...

You generally argue your point with lots of researched info and you stay far from generalizations. My only real gripe with you in this thread, is how you keep painting all the females around here with one brush when it comes to "bad men" issues. Saying you find it hysterical if someone can't see and agree with a point you are making. Literally lauging at people for not seeing your point. It just seems disrespectful. Typically, not your style. ;)

I know I babble on and on but i hope that was clear.
:wavey:

Clear as a bell for me and I have to agree.

[Steviefan49]

ROTFLMAO - here's your Belgium chocolate - thank you Graham Norton :eek:

Ok.. where's my darn bib when I need it? :laugh: I almost crack ribs laughing so hard at Graham Norton.. LOLOLOL