Alec Baldwin - 2007 Father of the Year....NOT!!!

[estranged4life]

Angry voice mail from Baldwin goes public

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18220258/

‘30 Rock’ star calls his 11-year-old daughter ‘a rude, thoughtless little pig’

The Associated Press

LOS ANGELES - The festering bad blood between movie-star exes Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger erupted Thursday when an angry phone message from Baldwin to his daughter was made public.

On the recording, Baldwin can be heard admonishing his 11-year-old, Ireland: “You are a rude, thoughtless little pig.”

“You don’t have the brains or the decency as a human being,” he says, apparently upset that she did not answer her phone for a planned call.

“I don’t give a damn that you’re 12 years old, or 11 years old, or that you’re a child, or that your mother is a thoughtless pain in the ass who doesn’t care about what you do as far as I’m concerned. You have humiliated me for the last time with this phone.”

He goes on to say that he plans to fly from New York to Los Angeles “for the day just to straighten you out on this issue.”

The recording was published by celebrity news site TMZ.com, which said that the call was placed on April 11.

Baldwin’s spokesman said in a statement Thursday that “in the best interest of the child,” the 49-year-old actor “will do what the mother is pathologically incapable of doing ... keeping his mouth shut and obeying the court order.

“The mother and her lawyer leaked this sealed material in violation of a court order,” he continued. “Although Alec acknowledges that he should have used different language in parenting his child, everyone who knows him privately knows what he has been put through for the past six years.”

“The voice mail speaks for itself,” Basinger’s spokeswoman said.

Calls to Basinger’s attorneys were not returned. Her spokeswoman also did not return calls. Baldwin’s attorney also did not return a call seeking comment.

Baldwin and Basinger, 53, were married in 1993. They have been involved in prolonged legal disputes over custody and other issues since she filed for divorce in 2001, which was granted in 2002. The couple’s differences have been aired several times in public.

Basinger was charged with contempt of court in October for violating terms of a 2004 custody agreement. A motion by her lawyers to dismiss the charges was denied Wednesday in Los Angeles Superior Court. The next hearing on visitation issues is scheduled for May 4.

© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[estranged4life]

TedDansonInAHat ? :rolleyes:

AlecBaldwinNotAParent

[markolas]

Oh please, my mother's favorite epithet for me was "you ungrateful little bastard," from the time I was about 6. I must be really ungrateful now, as I refuse to have anything to do with her, but who cares? :rolleyes: It doesn't look like Basinger is the best parent in the world either.

[estranged4life]

Oh please, my mother's favorite epithet for me was "you ungrateful little bastard," from the time I was about 6. I must be really ungrateful now, as I refuse to have anything to do with her, but who cares? :rolleyes: It doesn't look like Basinger is the best parent in the world either.
They're both those dumb-as-lint "Hollywood Types", they BADLY need the publicity at this time in the sunset of their career...Cause otherwise who could give a flying vertical f**k about 'em? :lol:

[strandinthewind]

Oh please, my mother's favorite epithet for me was "you ungrateful little bastard," . . . .

Her too :p

I agree, Bassigner is a fukcing Cee Uou Next Tuesday for doing this. Clearly, she used her kid to trap Baldwin and then she leaked it to the press. I know people who knew them when they lived together in NYC and they said the paramedics had to be called often because they would beat the hell out of each other - nice :rolleyes:

[Mari]

what a ****ing bastard.

[carrie721]

Oh please, my mother's favorite epithet for me was "you ungrateful little bastard," from the time I was about 6. I must be really ungrateful now, as I refuse to have anything to do with her, but who cares? :rolleyes: It doesn't look like Basinger is the best parent in the world either.

are you saying that because she said that to you, it's okay that alec b. said that **** to his daughter? :shrug:

[jannieC]

I think what he said to his daughter was pretty rough but I also think that all parents make massive mistakes. That tape never should have made it to the public- it's absolutely none of our business.

[markolas]

They're both those dumb-as-lint "Hollywood Types", they BADLY need the publicity at this time in the sunset of their career...Cause otherwise who could give a flying vertical f**k about 'em? :lol:

I still don't give a fukc about them, and never did. :laugh:

are you saying that because she said that to you, it's okay that alec b. said that **** to his daughter? :shrug:

No, I'm saying that a bigger deal is being made out of it than it really is, especially since it looks like Basinger may have set this up and then leaked it to the press.

[DrummerDeanna]

Parents yell at their kids. Sometimes parents yell very ****ty things at their kids ....kids (ESPECIALLY pre-teens and teens) are assholes. This was probably the end result of a hell of a lot of frustration, hurt and anger. And the mother of the kid is playing it for all it's worth.

I don't even think the message was that bad...I have heard worse between mothers and daughters in dressing rooms for God's sake.

[carrie721]

Parents yell at their kids. Sometimes parents yell very ****ty things at their kids ....kids (ESPECIALLY pre-teens and teens) are assholes. This was probably the end result of a hell of a lot of frustration, hurt and anger. And the mother of the kid is playing it for all it's worth.

I don't even think the message was that bad...I have heard worse between mothers and daughters in dressing rooms for God's sake.

i have to disagree ... i think what he said was terrible. but i agree with jannie, we were never supposed to hear it, and even good parents make huge mistakes.

[DrummerDeanna]

i have to disagree ... i think what he said was terrible. but i agree with jannie, we were never supposed to hear it, and even good parents make huge mistakes.

Really? I really don't think it was all that bad :shrug: Considering what the situation is...granted, he shouldn't treat her like that all the time, but I doubt he does, I think it was a blow up....and oh, yeah, the name calling thing was a bit extreme actually...and I totally agree that the it was something we were never supposed to hear. Whoever leaked it, in my opinion, had a very clear objective, knew what they were doing and it was a complete asshole move.

[rbs3676]

In the end, its that poor kid who is going to suffer. Aside from all the other BS she must have to endure in her life, the public laundering of all of this is going to haunt her forever. Both Basinger and Baldwin are ****ing assholes as far as I am concerned.

rbs

[carrie721]

Really? I really don't think it was all that bad :shrug: Considering what the situation is...granted, he shouldn't treat her like that all the time, but I doubt he does, I think it was a blow up....and oh, yeah, the name calling thing was a bit extreme actually...and I totally agree that the it was something we were never supposed to hear. Whoever leaked it, in my opinion, had a very clear objective, knew what they were doing and it was a complete asshole move.

well as far as i can tell, all the girl did was fail to answer her phone - if other things were going on between alec & kim, he shouldn't have taken them out on the daughter. the name calling is just way over the top - that is so damaging to a kid.

i think that whoever leaked it, tho, is scum.

[goldustsongbird]

I don't think it's such a huge deal. :shrug: It feels like there's something missing from this story. For all we know, Ireland could be the biggest brat ever. I don't know if he really should've said that her mom was a thoughtless pain in the ass, though...

[strandinthewind]

I think what he said to his daughter was pretty rough but I also think that all parents make massive mistakes. That tape never should have made it to the public- it's absolutely none of our business.

I mean could you imagine going through a divorce and having to schedule specific times via a court Order to speak to your daughter because your wife makes her unavailable. Then, during those times, the wife (which clearly is the case here unless Ireland hates her father, which there is no evidence of) makes her unavailable even during those times. That stress would madden the best of us. Of course, his anger was misdirected because an 11 year old cannot really be responsible for her actions. But, when I did divorce law, my experience was the parents use kids as a tool to hurt each other and/or as a financial means all the time. It truly is sickening.

[DrummerDeanna]

Right? She's 11...and the kid of very very rich people. AND in the middle of a custody battle with two ****ed up parents...and she's 11...evil age, 11. :laugh:

well as far as i can tell, all the girl did was fail to answer her phone - if other things were going on between alec & kim, he shouldn't have taken them out on the daughter. the name calling is just way over the top - that is so damaging to a kid.

i think that whoever leaked it, tho, is scum.

I guess from what I gathered he'd set up a time to call and talk to her. And he'd done that repeatedly in the past, and has again and again been blown off in the same fashion. I mean if I set up a time to call and talk with someone and their phone is off...I'd be pissed. If it was a kid and if this happened repeatedly and if you feel that the other parent is doing their darndest to alienate you - it's going to boil over. So I guess I can just sort of see where Baldwin is coming from in all this.

Have I mentioned how much I hate myself for even putting this much thought into the whole thing? :laugh:

But you're right about the name calling, that will probably stay with her forever...and someone else above is right, the one who really loses in all this is the kid (even though she's an evil 11 ;) )

[strandinthewind]

. . . I guess from what I gathered he'd set up a time to call and talk to her. And he'd done that repeatedly in the past, and has again and again been blown off in the same fashion. I mean if I set up a time to call and talk with someone and their phone is off...I'd be pissed. If it was a kid and if this happened repeatedly and if you feel that the other parent is doing their darndest to alienate you - it's going to boil over. So I guess I can just sort of see where Baldwin is coming from in all this . . . .

I'd bet a billion dollars Kim's lawyer and she purposefully did not make Ireland available more than once hoping to trigger Alec Baldwin into something like this. Now, he's lost custody and she may have to pay some fine, which will be nothing to her.

[BlackWidow]

the "little pig" part was bad...

[Serrart]

Her too :p

I agree, Bassigner is a fukcing Cee Uou Next Tuesday for doing this. Clearly, she used her kid to trap Baldwin and then she leaked it to the press. I know people who knew them when they lived together in NYC and they said the paramedics had to be called often because they would beat the hell out of each other - nice :rolleyes:


I agree, it sounds like a trap but a father that speaks like that to a 11 years old is far worse, IMO.

Romy

[catinthedark]

i thought it was pretty mean when i read the transcript.

when i heard it, i almost died.

there is a big difference. and as someone who has heard that tone and those kinds of words on an answering machine message from my father, i can tell you, that poor child will not ever, ever forget it. the ugliness, the meanness, the hatred, the selfishness. it made my stomach turn.

i think it's disgusting that bassigner and/or her lawyer leaked it. the child will also suffer the effects of that kind of animosity between two parents.

i don't care how much a brat she may or may not be (clearly, she has had no example on how to behave from her parents). she is the child. they are the adults (or supposed to be). i hope there are some smart aunts or uncles or grandparents in her life who will teach her and guide her towards the counselling she will no doubt need at some point.

[Musicman408]

When I first heard this, I thought he was talking to a publicist or whatever and then when I found out he was talking to his DAUGHTER like that........ No words could describe it. :eek: :shocked: :distress:

[carrie721]

i thought it was pretty mean when i read the transcript.

when i heard it, i almost died.

there is a big difference. and as someone who has heard that tone and those kinds of words on an answering machine message from my father, i can tell you, that poor child will not ever, ever forget it. the ugliness, the meanness, the hatred, the selfishness. it made my stomach turn.

i think it's disgusting that bassigner and/or her lawyer leaked it. the child will also suffer the effects of that kind of animosity between two parents.

i don't care how much a brat she may or may not be (clearly, she has had no example on how to behave from her parents). she is the child. they are the adults (or supposed to be). i hope there are some smart aunts or uncles or grandparents in her life who will teach her and guide her towards the counselling she will no doubt need at some point.

yeah, i just heard it this evening. ridiculous and pathetic. :distress:

[DrummerDeanna]

yeah, i just heard it this evening. ridiculous and pathetic. :distress:

Oh...you hadn't heard it earlier?

So I was thinking about this today. And I've decided that my feeling that it's not that bad is yet another indication that I should never...ever have children!

[markolas]

Come on, none of your parents ever yelled at you or called you a name when you were little? I'm guessing some of you would **** if I told you I used to get spanked with a fly swatter...the wire end, sometimes.

Yes, it was assholish for him to do that, but he was probably goaded into it so Basinger could leak the conversation to the media, which is assholish, too.

[carrie721]

Come on, none of your parents ever yelled at you or called you a name when you were little? I'm guessing some of you would **** if I told you I used to get spanked with a fly swatter...the wire end, sometimes.

Yes, it was assholish for him to do that, but he was probably goaded into it so Basinger could leak the conversation to the media, which is assholish, too.

my parents called me plenty of **** and i got smacked around too and worse. doesn't mean i don't think anything of it when i see it happen to other people.

[carrie721]

Oh...you hadn't heard it earlier?

So I was thinking about this today. And I've decided that my feeling that it's not that bad is yet another indication that I should never...ever have children!

no, i just read it. i didn't hear it until a few hours ago.

[sparky]

My parents never, ever spoke to me like this. Or to each other. In fact, I never heard either of them talk like this to another human being. Let alone a child. They made other mistakes, and certainly my father did some mighty damaging things to his kids, but not this kind of verbal attack.

Sure parents get pissed at their kids, but this is pretty harsh. It is an ugly situation in every way. Both those people have horrific reputations (though I will say I have worked with Alec and he was a total pro in that instance). Divorce is almost always awful for kids. Some of us may have been through worse, but this still is not good for a child to hear. Obviously it is a drop in the bucket compared to the **** storm she lives in. If either side has decent grand parents she'd probably be better off with them.

Anyone who calls their kid a pig, says they are worthless, or berates them in a similar manner ought to have their friggin tongue cut out, IMO. Kids are resilient, but that doesn't mean they don't scar.

[catinthedark]

Come on, none of your parents ever yelled at you or called you a name when you were little? I'm guessing some of you would **** if I told you I used to get spanked with a fly swatter...the wire end, sometimes.



so are you saying that you think it's normal, like, no big deal, if parents call their kids names and abuse them mentally and verbally? do you think, if that IS what you believe, you have that attitude because that was normal in your world?

it was normal in my world, too. but i learned, thankfully, that it is NOT normal in most kids' worlds, and nor should it be. yes, parents yell at kids every so often. but when it is constant, the norm, or includes abusive name calling, it is NOT normal. we don't call our friends and colleagues names and yell and scream at them. why is it okay to do to our kids?

[BombaySapphire3]

Having had a kind of an abusive asshole for a father I can empathize with the girl..I wouldn't have wanted to take his calls either.

[danax6]

so are you saying that you think it's normal, like, no big deal, if parents call their kids names and abuse them mentally and verbally? do you think, if that IS what you believe, you have that attitude because that was normal in your world?
WORD.

Just because it happened to you doesn't make it alright to happen to other people also. I don't really get that supposed logic. My mother terrorized my life for years also after SHE ran off and left me and my sister to live with my dad. My dad never came anywhere close to what Kim Basinger is doing, except trying to stay away from my crazy mom as far as possible, but she still managed to weazle herself in here and there and her favorite method of abuse was the mental/verbal one. I, too, have heard this **** Alec Baldwin spewed at his daughter, but I am still digusted by it. I would never say 'so, what, I've heard worse' and therefore don't think this is a big deal.

However, I also think we're not getting the whole story here.

[Mari]

I'll join the line of people here who've had similar experiences and say this is verbal abuse.
But I changed channels when I heard some of it on CNN, I did not need to actually hear that. And I don't need to know more about it.. it's their personal lives. I really really hope they sort it out in the best interest of the girl, but this over-the-top media attention just feels wrong to me. Just imagine being that girl right now?

[Sorceress]

I know I certainly wouldn't want to take calls from my dad either if this is how he talked to me! I don't care how bratty a child is or how angry a child makes a parent, parents are responsible for controlling themselves. Stuff like this stays with a kid, even if it's only a once in a while thing. Not only does it hurt, it fukcs with self image and identity as children grow, and then impacts future relationships.

I didn't get anything close to this from my dad--he just told me I was fat every once in a while and tried to preach to me constantly about his wacky religious beliefs. And I can see how even that has affected me to this day. I think part of parents' jobs--along with raising their kids to be decent people--is to try to leave their children with as few scars, and to a lesser extent, issues to work out later in life, as possible.

It's really amazing how narcissistic Mr. Baldwin is being about this too... As if we're supposed to feel sorry that he's been "put through so much." Yeah, verbal abuse is not okay, no matter how screwed up your relationship with your ex is. Adults need to conduct themselves as such, straighten out their messy relationships, and leave their kids out of it. (That goes for Ms. Basinger too, though if she is trying to protect her child from a pattern of damaging behavior, she deserves some leeway).

[mylittledemon]

Regardless of how bad of child this girl might be...the sad thing is, that girl will forever remember those words.

[skcin]

I think what he said to his daughter was pretty rough but I also think that all parents make massive mistakes. That tape never should have made it to the public- it's absolutely none of our business.

Exactly.

Regardless of how bad of child this girl might be...the sad thing is, that girl will forever remember those words.

She'll always remember that the whole world heard those word too.

[MacMan]

I think what he said to his daughter was pretty rough but I also think that all parents make massive mistakes. That tape never should have made it to the public- it's absolutely none of our business.

This I absolutely agree with - and to think this is everywhere as friggin NEWS!!! And on the "entertainment shows" as entertainment... :rolleyes:

I don't think his wife had anything to do with leaking it... but I bet she saved it and submitted it to her lawyers as part of whatever they are dealing with in their case... and that's probably where the leak came from.

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

Oh I totally think she leaked it...or at least knew about it/had something to do with it.

Oh and I read this article which I agree with:


http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=259626&GT1=7701

[jannieC]

^^

Oh I totally think she leaked it...or at least knew about it/had something to do with it.

Oh and I read this article which I agree with:


http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=259626&GT1=7701

Interesting article- thank you for posting it.

[strandinthewind]

^^

Oh I totally think she leaked it...or at least knew about it/had something to do with it. . . . [/url]

There is no way her lawyers would have it unless she gave it to them. Ditto for the person who leaked it. Parents in divorces are asshol*s.

Kim was responsibe for making sure Ireland was there for the phone call. Ireland was not there for this one or other ones. How fukced up is that - to use an 11 year old girl like that - pathetic no matter how abhhorent Alec B.'s actions were. Moreover, AB is an IDIOT for falling for that trap, which is a classic one.

[carrie721]

^^

Oh I totally think she leaked it...or at least knew about it/had something to do with it.

Oh and I read this article which I agree with:


http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=259626&GT1=7701

interesting article, but i find the analysis a little too precious.

[michelle2677]

i dunno...I just find it .....confusing that people are saying "this happened to me..so it's o.k."


I'm not trying to start ****, but I would think those people would be even MORE compassionate about this :shrug:

but that's just me.


it's kinda like-cancer. it's not. but I'm an "analogy" kinda girl. You wish they would find a cure, but you're not going to any great lengths. until YOU or someone very close to you has it....it just hits a little closer to home.




again....that's just me

[irishgrl]

I still don't give a fukc about them, and never did. :laugh:



No, I'm saying that a bigger deal is being made out of it than it really is, especially since it looks like Basinger may have set this up and then leaked it to the press.
no one forced the doofus to use that language :shrug: there's no excuse for what he did and Kim is right: the tape speaks for itself. If thats how a loving dad talks to his darling daughter, all I can say is, if I were Ireland, I wouldnt have been available for the touching phone call either.

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

I'm not really saying it was "ok" But I think a mountain is being made out of a mole hill. And that, I think, was the intent.

He was pushed to this point, and yes as an adult he should have known better - but we ALL lose our heads. And if anyone here can honestly say they've never said ugly things to someone else in extreme frustration and anger, I'd like to meet you - because I know I sure as hell have, many times.

Now, it IS his kid - but again, I think this blow-up was born of frustration and deep hurt. I don't think he's "abusive" and he's not shown any signs of being a repeatedly abusive person or father...:shrug:

I guess what my take is that this could have been handled differently by him, he's the adult. BUT I do see his side and where he's coming from....

And from all indications THIS IS NOT THE WAY HE NORMALLY TALKS TO HER! I'm so sick of the "I wouldn't have answered the phone either" Well...apparently, she never DOES answer the phone, because mummy sees to that...both the kid's parents are cracked, but everyone crying that Alec Baldwin is an abusive father is out of line, in my opinion.

[irishgrl]

i dunno...I just find it .....confusing that people are saying "this happened to me..so it's o.k."


I'm not trying to start ****, but I would think those people would be even MORE compassionate about this :shrug:

but that's just me.


it's kinda like-cancer. it's not. but I'm an "analogy" kinda girl. You wish they would find a cure, but you're not going to any great lengths. until YOU or someone very close to you has it....it just hits a little closer to home.




again....that's just me
sorta like the Domestic Violence issue. people looked the other way until Nicole Simpson's Sister and Parents spearheaded a public awareness campaign.

plus, I think he is a control freak...who else would fly all the way across country just to "straighten [her] out?"

[strandinthewind]

no one forced the doofus to use that language :shrug: there's no excuse for what he did and Kim is right: the tape speaks for itself. If thats how a loving dad talks to his darling daughter, all I can say is, if I were Ireland, I wouldnt have been available for the touching phone call either.

No one is perfect and parents speak poorly to their kids in far saner circumstances :shrug: Yes, he spoke harshly to her, but imagine yourself in that position - I think it would test the strongest of us.

Just curious - do you fault Kim at all for making Ireland unavailable (likely in conflict with at court order) and deliberately using this to trick the idiot AB. Clearly you know she was doing this classic ploy?

[michelle2677]

^^

I'm not really saying it was "ok" But I think a mountain is being made out of a mole hill. And that, I think, was the intent.

He was pushed to this point, and yes as an adult he should have known better - but we ALL lose our heads. And if anyone here can honestly say they've never said ugly things to someone else in extreme frustration and anger, I'd like to meet you - because I know I sure as hell have, many times.

Now, it IS his kid - but again, I think this blow-up was born of frustration and deep hurt. I don't think he's "abusive" and he's not shown any signs of being a repeatedly abusive person or father...:shrug:

I guess what my take is that this could have been handled differently by him, he's the adult. BUT I do see his side and where he's coming from....

And from all indications THIS IS NOT THE WAY HE NORMALLY TALKS TO HER! I'm so sick of the "I wouldn't have answered the phone either" Well...apparently, she never DOES answer the phone, because mummy sees to that...both the kid's parents are cracked, but everyone crying that Alec Baldwin is an abusive father is out of line, in my opinion.



oh, I know!!! believe me-I'm sure the humane society has been called on me numerous times for whipping murray's ass for getting out of the yard. and for screaming at him for barking. omg...I swear if he keeps it up..I'm buying him a bark collar :lol: off topic. sorry. It was obvious he was set up-but what's the difference? he still said it, and should be held accountable, imo. I don't think it should be a big media-fest, like it has become. but I think he may need some anger management courses ;)

sorry if I offended you, though. It wasn't my intention :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

^^

I'm not really saying it was "ok" But I think a mountain is being made out of a mole hill. And that, I think, was the intent.

He was pushed to this point, and yes as an adult he should have known better - but we ALL lose our heads. And if anyone here can honestly say they've never said ugly things to someone else in extreme frustration and anger, I'd like to meet you - because I know I sure as hell have, many times.

Now, it IS his kid - but again, I think this blow-up was born of frustration and deep hurt. I don't think he's "abusive" and he's not shown any signs of being a repeatedly abusive person or father...:shrug:

I guess what my take is that this could have been handled differently by him, he's the adult. BUT I do see his side and where he's coming from....

And from all indications THIS IS NOT THE WAY HE NORMALLY TALKS TO HER! I'm so sick of the "I wouldn't have answered the phone either" Well...apparently, she never DOES answer the phone, because mummy sees to that...both the kid's parents are cracked, but everyone crying that Alec Baldwin is an abusive father is out of line, in my opinion.


I agree. Again, I think he is an idiot and an ass for losing his cool.

[irishgrl]

No one is perfect and parents speak poorly to their kids in far saner circumstances :shrug: Yes, he spoke harshly to her, but imagine yourself in that position - I think it would test the strongest of us.

Just curious - do you fault Kim at all for making Ireland unavailable (likely in conflict with at court order) and deliberately using this to trick the idiot AB. Clearly you know she was doing this classic ploy?


do we KNOW Kim kept her from the call? Its not apparent from the original article :shrug: Apparently Alec believes it was Ireland's choice not to be available, thus the name calling....

[strandinthewind]

do we KNOW Kim kept her from the call? Apparently Alec believes it was Ireland's choice not to be available, thus the name calling....

Of course she did - she is the adult and she set up the time (I think pursuant to a court order) -- so she is using Ireland to get to AB. Trust me, this is a classic ploy used by parents to hurt each other and it makes me sick.

[DrummerDeanna]

oh, I know!!! believe me-I'm sure the humane society has been called on me numerous times for whipping murray's ass for getting out of the yard. and for screaming at him for barking. omg...I swear if he keeps it up..I'm buying him a bark collar :lol: off topic. sorry. It was obvious he was set up-but what's the difference? he still said it, and should be held accountable, imo. I don't think it should be a big media-fest, like it has become. but I think he may need some anger management courses ;)

sorry if I offended you, though. It wasn't my intention :xoxo:

Oh you didn't offend me at all! And yes, once or twice I've yelled at Clancy to the point where I hoped the neighbors wouldn't call animal control :p

But I do believe Alec should be held accountable, I'm not saying he shouldn't - but I don't think he's some big abusive parent either...

----

And it's been stated NUMEROUS times by Alec AND people close to the situation that Kim IS keeping Ireland from him and trying to influence her as per her father...and is basically, like Strand said, using the kid to get Alec.

[irishgrl]

Of course she did - she is the adult and she set up the time (I think pursuant to a court order) -- so she is using Ireland to get to AB. Trust me, this is a classic ploy used by parents to hurt each other and it makes me sick.
Ireland hasnt said her mother prevented her :shrug: Alec apparently believes it was Ireland's OWN action which is why he called HER a thoughtless pig.

You all are ASSUMING it was Kim's doing and I dont see any evidence other than Alec's legal team's spin. nope.

[strandinthewind]

Ireland hasnt said her mother prevented her :shrug: Alec apparently believes it was Ireland's OWN action which is why he called HER a thoughtless pig.

You all are ASSUMING it was Kim's doing and I dont see any evidence other than Alec's legal team spin. nope.

Kim is controlling Ireland. Clearly you see this and know it happens all the time and regardles of the gender of the parent. That you cannot even entertain the thought though is a little mind blowing.

And - she was a thoughtless pig for not answering the phone - - perhaps it could have been couched in nicer terms, but if the shoe fits :shrug:

Interestingly, I saw on ET tonight that AB was at dinner with his new wife and got up from the table to call her at the scheduled time 10:00 ET. If he could make that effort, then Ireland should have had the decency to answer the phone. That an 11 year old did not suggests to me that an adult prevented her from doing so. Anyway, I have seen this BS so many times that it is obvious to me.

[irishgrl]

Kim is controlling Ireland. Clearly you see this and know it happens all the time and regardles of the gender of the parent. That you cannot even entertain the thought though is a little mind blowing.

And - she was a thoughtless pig for not answering the phone - - perhaps it could have been couched in nicer terms, but if the shoe fits :shrug:

Interestingly, I saw on ET tonight that AB was at dinner with his new wife and got up from the table to call her at the scheduled time 10:00 ET. If he could make that effort, then Ireland should have had the decency to answer the phone. That an 11 year old did not suggests to me that an adult prevented her from doing so. Anyway, I have seen this BS so many times that it is obvious to me.
Personally, I have seen just as many kids rebell against court ordered contact with non-custodial parents. Kim may have custody, but Ireland could just as easily find a way to call her father if she really wanted to. Can nobody entertain the thought that she doesnt want anything to do with him? I can.

If this is a snapshot of how he acts when he is frustrated, what more goes on that we DONT know about? My concern would be to err on the side of safety for the child. Again, Alec blamed Ireland (in the phone convo), not Kim. I personally remember too many violent stories about that man to trust him.

[strandinthewind]

I know people who have seen both of them (Alex and Kim) beat the crap out of each other -- so, I think they are both violent.

[irishgrl]

I know people who have seen both of them (Alex and Kim) beat the crap out of each other -- so, I think they are both violent.
well, I could see a case being made for self defense actually....its obvious there's no love lost there...which is sad....they could have taken a page out of Demi's and Bruce's book eh?

[strandinthewind]

well, I could see a case being made for self defense actually.... .

According to my sources - on both of their parts.

[irishgrl]

According to my sources - on both of their parts.
ok. but that doesnt mean Ireland didnt act on her own volition.

[strandinthewind]

ok. but that doesnt mean Ireland didnt act on her own volition.

I submit Kim's prior bad acts strongly suggest that she blocked Ireland from taking the calls. If I had not done this for a long time, I might side with Kim, but experience has taught me the cruelty of divorcing parents.

[irishgrl]

I submit Kim's prior bad acts strongly suggest that she blocked Ireland from taking the calls. If I had not done this for a long time, I might side with Kim, but experience has taught me the cruelty of divorcing parents.
well, I realize its not outside the realm of possibility however, Alec himself held Ireland HERSELF to blame. not Kim. at least not until his attorney put their spin on it. I also know that if a child wants to talk to a parent, they can call that parent on their own. The fact that Alec believes that Ireland doesnt want to talk to him is enuff to make me think there is prob good reason for that.

ps: Ive seen plenty in Family Courts too ya know....

[strandinthewind]

well, I realize its not outside the realm of possibility however, Alec himself held Ireland HERSELF to blame. not Kim. at least not until his attorney put their spin on it. I also know that if a child wants to talk to a parent, they can call that parent on their own. The fact that Alec believes that Ireland doesnt want to talk to him is enuff to make me think there is prob good reason for that.

ps: Ive seen plenty in Family Courts too ya know....

AB was interviewed on Letterman the night of the phone call. He described his relationship with Ireland as healthy and he told a cute anecdote about her being a dancer all the time. So, I think they get along. I think, though, that Kim pushed his buttons here and he fell for it.

I think he attacked Ireland because he had discussed this event with her before. And, he was an a$$ for it.

[michelle2677]

She'll always remember that the whole world heard those word too.


that was EXACTLY what I was thinking.

i remember on bob and tom one time, they were talking about the anniversary of roe vs. wade. I think the kid was turning 20 at the time and they were like "imagine that kid. Screw everyone else. Think about being that child growing up thinking ...'my mom didn't want me so bad...she took it to the supreme COURT!'"

it's sooooooo much different when all your dirty laundry is aired out for the world to see :distress:

[irishgrl]

AB was interviewed on Letterman the night of the phone call. He described his relationship with Ireland as healthy and he told a cute anecdote about her being a dancer all the time. So, I think they get along. I think, though, that Kim pushed his buttons here and he fell for it.

I think he attacked Ireland because he had discussed this event with her before. And, he was an a$$ for it.
again, I dont take that man's word for anything. My gut tells me he's trying to do damage control by avoiding responsibility for what HE did and shifting it to an easy target, his ex. Yeah, real believable there.....Granted, its well known that this is a very bitter divorce, but I tend to think Kim would be even more careful to comply given how vigorously Alec has litigated this in the past. From what I see, this is all about POWER. And Alec strikes me as a control freak as I said. Who flies 3000 miles just to give a kid a lecture about being receptive to his/her parent? I'll tell you: a parent who is obsessed with staying in control. I have a feeling that if you scratch the surface of Mr. Alec Baldwin, you'll find a full time A.S.S., not just the "oops I just got frustrated and lost my head" type Ass.

who knows? maybe Ireland will benefit from this whole fiasco: Alec will have to be more circumspect in his behavior from now on...

[strandinthewind]

again, I dont take that man's word for anything.

No surprise there :p :p

. . . but I tend to think Kim would be even more careful to comply given how vigorously Alec has litigated this in the past . . . .

But, here she did not and this obviously was not the first time. Again, it is the parent's responsibility to make sure the 11 year old is there for the call, esp. when it is a judicial thing. Then, when he blows his fuse, she releases it to the world no matter the public humiliation and damage her daughter has no doubt suffered. That, to me, has all the signs of a trap and AB was an idiot for falling for it.

Again, AB likely is an a$$, but Kim hurt her daughter more (if that is possible) by releasing this to the public. She will now forever be known for this.

[strandinthewind]

So, someone just happened to get that message, realize who it was, and then have the wherewithall to know how to release it annonymously to the press :rolleyes:

Also, the bolded part speaks volumes about Kim's behavior.

Interestingly, if these people were not rich, child services likely would have taken this kid from them by now

_______________________________________________________

Kim Basinger Denies Leaking Alec Baldwin's 'Thoughtless Little Pig' Voicemail to Daughter to Press

Tuesday , April 24, 2007

LOS ANGELES —

Kim Basinger denies she leaked a voicemail in which her ex-husband, Alec Baldwin, calls their 11-year-old daughter a "rude, thoughtless little pig."

"Kim Basinger did not release the voicemail. Additionally, the voicemail was not sealed under a court order," said a statement released by the actress's publicist, Annett Wolf, on Monday.

Baldwin left a voicemail lambasting his daughter, Ireland, for failing to answer the telephone for a prearranged call. The tape was aired by the celebrity Web site TMZ.com on Thursday and quickly made headlines around the world.

A Los Angeles Superior Court commissioner ordered Baldwin to stay away from his daughter pending a May 4 hearing.

Baldwin, who has been locked in a custody dispute with Basinger since their 2002 divorce, blamed her for the leak on Friday. He also apologized on his own Web site for "losing my temper with my child."

"I have been driven to the edge by parental alienation for many years now," Baldwin wrote.

"Everybody is always asking why this custody battle has been going on for so many years, and now they have the answer. The issue is not about Kim or the alleged alienation that Alec constantly refers to; it is about his ongoing aggressive behavior," Basinger's statement said.

"Kim's sincerest wish is for him to finally address his unstable and irrational behavior so he, at some point, can potentially create a relationship with his daughter," the statement said. "Until then, Kim will continue to protect and safeguard her child's well-being as any parent would."

Basinger is facing trial on 12 misdemeanor counts of criminal contempt for allegedly disregarding court orders concerning Baldwin's visitation rights.

www.foxnews.com

[irishgrl]

as to the above, she hasnt been convicted of anything as yet. anyone can bring contempt of court charges so until she's found guilty of something, that is just legal posturing. You know that.

We dont know why the phone wasnt answered, for all we know, she was in the bathroom and couldnt answer it in time. You are always so willing to blame the woman, even when the only tangible evidence here is the FATHER'S bad behavior. If you want to buy into his spin, in the face of his obvious asshole-ish behavior, that's your perogative. As for the daughter having to "live with this," puh leez. If anything, this shows me that her father is someone who needs watching. Perhaps this whole mess will do her a favor and she's been saved from futher abuse. I'd like to think so.


ETA: I think THIS should have been bolded instead:
"Everybody is always asking why this custody battle has been going on for so many years, and now they have the answer. The issue is not about Kim or the alleged alienation that Alec constantly refers to; it is about his ongoing aggressive behavior," Basinger's statement said.

again, the man is a control freak. 3000 mile plane ride to give her a lecture and set her straight? Yep, I'd want to see my dad for that, you betcha. he didnt just call her a pig once, but several times. Nope. No matter how he tries to spin this, its his fault ALONE. Personally, Im GLAD it got out if its public airing saves Ireland from any more abuse.

[strandinthewind]

^^^

My point is it was the mother of an 11 year old's job to make sure she answered the phone. She failed that job here and apparently at other times. In other words, regardless of her feelings about AB, the correct thing to do would be to say to Ireland that the call was important and she was going to make sure Ireland took it because regardless of the public disputes and Kim's personal feelings, AB is her father and Ireland should not be denied the little time they have together. She did not do this.

As for the posturing - 12 is a bit much and I am pretty sure AB's atty's would not be stupid enough to trump up charges in a high profile case.

Finally, if you do not think airing this publicly has hurt Ireland far more than her dad's rant, then I really do not know what to say.

[strandinthewind]

Also and for the record, I think AB's treatment is horrible. I think no matter what that beeyotch of an x-wife did, he should not speak to his daughter this way, though I recognize it is not the end of the world and parents are allowed to fail from the ideal.

I am also saying her behaviour was worse than his because she put this humiliation out for the public to see. Now, this 11 year old girl who is being manipulated by both parents has had her humiliation seen by millions of people. This is going to haunt her publicly for years. Imagine what it was like for her to go to school the day after this aired -- all the finger pointing, laughing, etc. that cruel kids are likely to do. That is why I say Kim hurt Ireland far more than AB did in this instance.

[skcin]

as to the above, she hasnt been convicted of anything as yet. anyone can bring contempt of court charges so until she's found guilty of something, that is just legal posturing. You know that.

We dont know why the phone wasnt answered, for all we know, she was in the bathroom and couldnt answer it in time. You are always so willing to blame the woman, even when the only tangible evidence here is the FATHER'S bad behavior. If you want to buy into his spin, in the face of his obvious asshole-ish behavior, that's your perogative. As for the daughter having to "live with this," puh leez. If anything, this shows me that her father is someone who needs watching. Perhaps this whole mess will do her a favor and she's been saved from futher abuse. I'd like to think so.


ETA: I think THIS should have been bolded instead:


again, the man is a control freak. 3000 mile plane ride to give her a lecture and set her straight? Yep, I'd want to see my dad for that, you betcha. he didnt just call her a pig once, but several times. Nope. No matter how he tries to spin this, its his fault ALONE. Personally, Im GLAD it got out if its public airing saves Ireland from any more abuse.


So people can make things up with no evidence & they'll bring charges up? That's a shame if that's the case. Our court system is really f'd up.

And I don't see Jason as defending AB. He said the guy's an asshole. But just as you accuse him of siding with him automatically because he's a man, it looks to people that are you doing the opposite - siding with the woman because she's a woman. Maybe not, but that's how it seems.

And are you saying that this kid won't be affected at all by the fact her dad's diatribe at her was played over & over again across the world for everyone to hear? I disagree.

[sara1998]

I'm not taking sides in this: that would be too easy. Clearly, AB is in the wrong, however, just for talking to his daughter like that. Yes, I hollar and get on Sara. But, name calling is out of the question. You don't call your kids names. I was yelled at daily when I was a kid. That's a parenting issue. I'll be the first to admit that, and am working on it. I also don't believe that you should berate the other parent in front of the child. No matter what the circumstance. As much as I despise Jason for what he did to us, I will never put him down in front of Sara. It's just out of the question for me.

[CelticGypsy]

It is absolutely horrible what he called his child and the way he is as a father. I don't care how mad you are at your ex-spouse, you never treat a child in that manner.

[Lee]

It is absolutely horrible what he called his child and the way he is as a father. I don't care how mad you are at your ex-spouse, you never treat a child in that manner.

ITA. I actually think neither one of them are fit to be parents. They are both just using their daughter. She's stuck in between. This is really going to effect her. Instead of hiring a bodyguard for her, they should have hired a shrink thanks to them. :distress:

Lee :distress:

[jannieC]

Personally, Im GLAD it got out if its public airing saves Ireland from any more abuse.

While I hope she can get whatever counseling services she needs (and I certainly see NO reason why she shouldn't), I respectfully disagree that this should have been publicly aired. This is a private issue and none of our business. There are many sides to every story.

[irishgrl]

^^^

My point is it was the mother of an 11 year old's job to make sure she answered the phone. She failed that job here and apparently at other times. In other words, regardless of her feelings about AB, the correct thing to do would be to say to Ireland that the call was important and she was going to make sure Ireland took it because regardless of the public disputes and Kim's personal feelings, AB is her father and Ireland should not be denied the little time they have together. She did not do this.

As for the posturing - 12 is a bit much and I am pretty sure AB's atty's would not be stupid enough to trump up charges in a high profile case.

Finally, if you do not think airing this publicly has hurt Ireland far more than her dad's rant, then I really do not know what to say.
oh my dear. You KNOW attorneys in high profile cases are perfect WHORES. its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


do I think either side will overlook any possible angle??? HELL NO. Alec blew it. period. in this case, the glove fit, the shoe fit and no amount of finger pointing is going to remove the memory of a dad who treats his daughter this way.

as for whether or not this belongs in the "public arena" GIVE ME A BREAK!!

if it wasnt for the active (and I mean ACTIVE) campaigning on behalf of Nicole's sister (who's name escapes me now, sadly) domestic violence would still be one of those "boys will be boys" type occurrences. SORRY. I dont think Ireland will be damaged in the slightest by this. If anything, she is going to be MORE protected. As for prurient interest....I have NOT read all the articles (in fact I havent read any except for the first one posted by Brian) so, I am not consumed by this case or the particulars. My main concern is, and always has been the welfare of this child. I believe that she will NOW be protected. And for that, I am relieved. As, I am sure any child advocate will be.

[irishgrl]

So people can make things up with no evidence & they'll bring charges up? That's a shame if that's the case. Our court system is really f'd up.

And I don't see Jason as defending AB. He said the guy's an asshole. But just as you accuse him of siding with him automatically because he's a man, it looks to people that are you doing the opposite - siding with the woman because she's a woman. Maybe not, but that's how it seems.

And are you saying that this kid won't be affected at all by the fact her dad's diatribe at her was played over & over again across the world for everyone to hear? I disagree.
I can tell you that it happened in MY own case :shrug: There is a bias against women in Family Courts and I have the stats to back it up. If you want an eye-crossing evening of truth telling, let me know.

ps: if AB is an asshole then we should all say YES, HE'S AN ASSHOLE. NOW, HOW CAN WE PROTECT IRELAND????

because, ultimately, whether you agree with what happened here or not (the info leaking into the mainstream press) the end result SHOULD be that Ireland is PROTECTED. yes?????? YES.

and, btw and for the record, the ONLY tangible bad behavior here is by Alec. Not Kim, not Ireland. any statements to the contrary are merely an attempt to rewrite the FACTS. (Jason, your assertion that Kim should have FORCED Ireland to accept that call is an assumption at best. again, we dont know WHAT happened that particular moment in time--and, our speculations are not relevant)

[michelle2677]

I'm not taking sides in this: that would be too easy. Clearly, AB is in the wrong, however, just for talking to his daughter like that. Yes, I hollar and get on Sara. But, name calling is out of the question. You don't call your kids names. I was yelled at daily when I was a kid. That's a parenting issue. I'll be the first to admit that, and am working on it. I also don't believe that you should berate the other parent in front of the child. No matter what the circumstance. As much as I despise Jason for what he did to us, I will never put him down in front of Sara. It's just out of the question for me.

I couldn't agree more. my parents were complete opposites in this aspect. My mother NEVER would put my father down, even though she had good reason to. he never was around, didn't pay child support. the usual. But every time I would go to see my dad (it became more frequent as i got older) my dad would always put my mom down about how awful a mother she was. I have never gotten over that. Sure it seems like you win at the moment. You think they kid will pick your side, but in the long run, you lose. That's one of the many grudges I hold against my father, so I got kinda carried away :o

[irishgrl]

OK, I might as well be up front: the reason I have the opinion/position I do is because my son was molested by his father. The Court system wouldnt believe what I saw with my OWN eyes. It didnt believe the statements of the day care providers. It wasnt until my son was in State Funded Daycare, and was witnessed as having exhibited traits of sexual abuse (by a man who has been CONVICTED mind you) that anyone started listening to me.) I have been in this nightmare for 6 years. I have been charged with contempt of court for not paying half of his court orderded visitation fees....I KNOW what happens in Family Court, both as a legal professional and as a participant. I can tell you firsthand that no one, not the Judges, not the Lawyers, not the mediation professionals, accepted this abuse. Which meant it kept happening....until I made a crucial phone call. to an outside agency.....Folks: you can complain all you want but the sad fact is, our children suffer until a public outcry happens.
Trust me when I say, Ireland is much better off now that stuff is out in the OPEN. Im sorry all you folks with delicate sensibilities....ugly things happen to innocents. Thats just the truth.

[sara1998]

OK, I might as well be up front: the reason I have the opinion/position I do is because my son was molested by his father. The Court system wouldnt believe what I saw with my OWN eyes. It didnt believe the statements of the day care providers. It wasnt until my son was in State Funded Daycare, and was witnessed as having exhibited traits of sexual abuse (by a man who has been CONVICTED mind you) that anyone started listening to me.) I have been in this nightmare for 6 years. I have been charged with contempt of court for not paying half of his court orderded visitation fees....I KNOW what happens in Family Court, both as a legal professional and as a participant.

Trust me when I say, Ireland is much better off now that stuff is out in the OPEN. Im sorry all you folks with delicate sensibilities....ugly things happen to innocents. Thats just the truth.

I'm sorry to hear that, and I'm appaled that you weren't believed. :distress:

[irishgrl]

I'm sorry to hear that, and I'm appaled that you weren't believed. :distress:
my story is all too common believe me. I could give you links but I wont do it here...

[strandinthewind]

. . .. ps: if AB is an asshole then we should all say YES, HE'S AN ASSHOLE. NOW, HOW CAN WE PROTECT IRELAND??? . . . .

um - haven't I said that - and sadly it includes his mother

[jannieC]

I deal with child/sexual abuse every day and I still maintain that that tape should not have been leaked to the public. People (celebrities included, and I mean the child, not Mr. Baldwin) have the right to privacy.

[strandinthewind]

my story is all too common believe me. I could give you links but I wont do it here...

You went through the most unbelieveable hell I can imagine! No man should ever treat anyone, much less someone as good as you or your kids, like that!

Also, I just tried to call you - beeyotch:p

[jannieC]

P.S. to Irishgrl- I didn't mean to overlook your post about your son. I am so sorry that he went through this and I will keep him (and you) in my thoughts as you continue on with his healing.

[irishgrl]

Thanks Jannie, Jason. no one has any idea what agonies a protective parent goes thru believe me. and even tho the circumstances may have been a bit dicey, I still say if the exposure of Alec's abusive nature prevents any more abuse, then it was well worth seeing the light of day. from one abused kid to another...(yes, I was abused too.)

[irishgrl]

You went through the most unbelieveable hell I can imagine! No man should ever treat anyone, much less someone as good as you or your kids, like that!

Also, I just tried to call you - beeyotch:p
ah Jason, you society WHORE!!!! you know I luv ya :nod: stay safe my friend....

[irishgrl]

It takes courage to open yourself in the way that you have to us, irshgrl, and I saw "bravo" to you.

I say who cares how or why the voice message was leaked. Thank the heavens it was as maybe that will put someone, who obviously gives a rats about their celebrity rep, on notice that the behaviour is not acceptable. I have my doubts this is the first act of aggression by Baldwin.

Taking the celebrity-ness out of the equation, it is amazing what people think they can get away with with a veil of secrecy - intimidation in one of it's highest forms.
Gawd Luv ya Nikki....(did I spell that right??)

[skcin]

OK, I might as well be up front: the reason I have the opinion/position I do is because my son was molested by his father. The Court system wouldnt believe what I saw with my OWN eyes. It didnt believe the statements of the day care providers. It wasnt until my son was in State Funded Daycare, and was witnessed as having exhibited traits of sexual abuse (by a man who has been CONVICTED mind you) that anyone started listening to me.) I have been in this nightmare for 6 years. I have been charged with contempt of court for not paying half of his court orderded visitation fees....I KNOW what happens in Family Court, both as a legal professional and as a participant. I can tell you firsthand that no one, not the Judges, not the Lawyers, not the mediation professionals, accepted this abuse. Which meant it kept happening....until I made a crucial phone call. to an outside agency.....Folks: you can complain all you want but the sad fact is, our children suffer until a public outcry happens.
Trust me when I say, Ireland is much better off now that stuff is out in the OPEN. Im sorry all you folks with delicate sensibilities....ugly things happen to innocents. Thats just the truth.

I'm sorry that this happened to your son.

I deal with child/sexual abuse every day and I still maintain that that tape should not have been leaked to the public. People (celebrities included, and I mean the child, not Mr. Baldwin) have the right to privacy.

I agree Jannie. Irish - if details of your son's abuse (whether it be written or video or whatever) were made public & broadcast repeatedly on every network, would you be OK with that? I don't think that would benefit your son in any way, if anything it may make him embarrassed or angry or depressed. It's one thing to want to get issues out in the open to protect kids, but it's quite another to give specific intimate details to the media to be put on display to the general public.

[irishgrl]

I'm sorry that this happened to your son.



I agree Jannie. Irish - if details of your son's abuse (whether it be written or video or whatever) were made public & broadcast repeatedly on every network, would you be OK with that? I don't think that would benefit your son in any way, if anything it may make him embarrassed or angry or depressed. It's one thing to want to get issues out in the open to protect kids, but it's quite another to give specific intimate details to the media to be put on display to the general public.
1) I didnt post any details, just broad brushstrokes. However, when I went to Sacramento to help sponsor legislation that would eliminate loopholes that protect child molesters, you betcha I explained my reasons. People need to know this stuff happens and do what they can to stop it. Molesters and abusers need to be held accountable and without information being put out there, the same old thing will keep happening, because people's first instinct is to turn away.

2) personally I dont see the comparison between verbal abuse and sexual abuse as being apt. Apples and Oranges. But, in any event, I have the feeling that Ireland will become something of a little hero...."poor girl, look how her dad treats her" kinda thing. Is she suffering because of this?? Highly DOUBT it.

[jannieC]

I agree Jannie. Irish - if details of your son's abuse (whether it be written or video or whatever) were made public & broadcast repeatedly on every network, would you be OK with that? I don't think that would benefit your son in any way, if anything it may make him embarrassed or angry or depressed. It's one thing to want to get issues out in the open to protect kids, but it's quite another to give specific intimate details to the media to be put on display to the general public.

ITA. My training has been so focused on confidentiality, and because I'm counseling children and adolescents on a psychiatric ward, I feel extra sensitive to it.

[irishgrl]

ITA. My training has been so focused on confidentiality, and because I'm counseling children and adolescents on a psychiatric ward, I feel extra sensitive to it.
unfortunately, celebrities dont have much privacy by virtue of their chosen field which puts them IN the public eye.

Personally, I think there must have been an overriding reason why Kim's attorney did this, AND, for all we know, Ireland agreed to it. :shrug: I trust Kim as a mother to do what's best for her child. Im sure all the pro's and con's were weighed by all relevant parties before this was leaked. After all, she is the one (Kim) who will pay the price if she made the wrong decision....

btw, not to belittle your "training," but as a molested child, and the mother of a molested child, I find it very VERY difficult to agree with any sentiment that would result in the abuse continuing. You can cloak an awful lot of crapola in the name of "confidentiality".

[strandinthewind]

^^^

If stopping any abuse to Ireland is your goal, then did the tape have to be made public? Surely, KB could have given this to the judge and the judge would have made the same ruling he did, which was to prohibit contact until May. So, I conclude the releasing of the tape to the public was a bitchy move on KB's part and she did it despite any potential damage to her daughter.

[irishgrl]

^^^

If stopping any abuse to Ireland is your goal, then did the tape have to be made public? Surely, KB could have given this to the judge and the judge would have made the same ruling he did, which was to prohibit contact until May. So, I conclude the releasing of the tape to the public was a bitchy move on KB's part and she did it despite any potential damage to her daughter.
again: for all we know, Ireland agreed to it :shrug: Perhaps SHE is sick of her dad's abuse too.

besides: the immediate effect is that Alec now will watch his step and refrain from further verbal spewage. I say GOOD.

[strandinthewind]

again: for all we know, Ireland agreed to it :shrug: Perhaps SHE is sick of her dad's abuse too.

But, if protecting her is goal, then why release it to the public? And, since when does an 11 year old have any say? Kim is the adult. Also, it is questionable whether the releasing of the VM was in violation of the court order.

[irishgrl]

But, if protecting her is goal, then why release it to the public? And, since when does an 11 year old have any say? Kim is the adult. Also, it is questionable whether the releasing of the VM was in violation of the court order.
an 11 year old could be called to testify :shrug:

and, again: she will be protected on two levels now, court action and public opinion. win-win.

[strandinthewind]

an 11 year old could be called to testify :shrug:

and, again: she will be protected on two levels now, court action and public opinion. win-win.

No, the releasing of the tape was a bitchy thing to do.

Also, if Ireland did not want to talk to her father, then she should have told her mnother that she was not honoring the est. times.

[carrie721]

btw, not to belittle your "training," but as a molested child, and the mother of a molested child, I find it very VERY difficult to agree with any sentiment that would result in the abuse continuing. You can cloak an awful lot of crapola in the name of "confidentiality".

oh boohoo. are you kidding me? i'm sick of people using their "experiences" to avoid viewing a situation rationally. even if ireland agreed to let the tape be released (a tenuous idea at best), who says that's in her best interest? when i was 11 i would've agreed and did agree with a lot that wasn't in my best interest.

[MacMan]

FYI - Alec will be Guest on The View this coming Friday.... Should be interesting.

[irishgrl]

oh boohoo. are you kidding me? i'm sick of people using their "experiences" to avoid viewing a situation rationally. even if ireland agreed to let the tape be released (a tenuous idea at best), who says that's in her best interest? when i was 11 i would've agreed and did agree with a lot that wasn't in my best interest.
so take two aspirin and call your vet in the morning.

who are you to determine "rational?" so you dont agree, BFD. It isnt just Ireland making a decision here, it was two adults, one of which is her MOTHER who gave BIRTH to her, and who I believe is better able to look out for her welfare than any of you armchair referees. Apparently a Judge agrees. so much for your definition of "rational" Also, I find it highly IRONIC that you would belittle someone who brought PERSONAL experience into a convo, considering all the PERSONAL stuff you shared here (and expected comfort for) can you spell "hypocrite" boys and girls???

[irishgrl]

No, the releasing of the tape was a bitchy thing to do.

Also, if Ireland did not want to talk to her father, then she should have told her mnother that she was not honoring the est. times.
how do you know she didnt? :shrug: I suggested as much several pages back...

[carrie721]

so take two aspirin and call your vet in the morning.

who are you to determine "rational?" so you dont agree, BFD. It isnt just Ireland making a decision here, it was two adults, one of which is her MOTHER who gave BIRTH to her, and who I believe is better able to look out for her welfare than any of you armchair referees. Apparently a Judge agrees. so much for your definition of "rational" Also, I find it highly IRONIC that you would belittle someone who brought PERSONAL experience into a convo, considering all the PERSONAL stuff you shared here (and expected comfort for) can you spell "hypocrite" boys and girls???

i'm not belittling you for bringing it up. but i think you're using it to justify a warped opinion.

i've never expected comfort from anyone here, but i have been grateful when i've received it.

[irishgrl]

i'm not belittling you for bringing it up. but i think you're using it to justify a warped opinion.

i've never expected comfort from anyone here, but i have been grateful when i've received it.
really? so this

oh boohoo. are you kidding me? i'm sick of people using their "experiences" to avoid viewing a situation rationally.
wasnt belittling?

OTAY
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/celtic4evr/OTAY-Buckwheat.jpg

as for warped opinion, please come back after you've been sexually abused or you've seen your child sexually abused and the court system and law enforcement turns a blind eye and you become a child activist and THEN tell me what's warped. PUH LEEZ.

[carrie721]

really?

label it what you want, i didn't belittle you for bringing it up. i don't give a **** what anybody wants to share here about their personal lives. if i were going to belittle you for bringing it up, i would've done so 3 pages ago when you first mentioned it.

[carrie721]

as for warped opinion, please come back after you've been sexually abused or you've seen your child sexually abused and the court system and law enforcement turns a blind eye and you become a child activist and THEN tell me what's warped. PUH LEEZ.

you don't know what i've been through or what family court hell i've experienced. but thanks for trying!

[irishgrl]

label it what you want, i didn't belittle you for bringing it up. i don't give a **** what anybody wants to share here about their personal lives. if i were going to belittle you for bringing it up, i would've done so 3 pages ago when you first mentioned it.
so, you're 3 pages behind the times...but I can certainly identify belittling (especially since I seem to be a favorite target of yours) when I see it. Im so glad that you are such an EXPERT on what passes for rationality, or "warped" or oh, just ANYTHING you see fit to ponficate on.

[irishgrl]

you don't know what i've been through or what family court hell i've experienced. but thanks for trying!
aha. Dont thank me. Thank your parents.
as for MY child, (and other kids in CA) Im doing my best to make a difference.

Perhaps you should put your $$$$ where your mouth is.

[carrie721]

Perhaps you should put your $$$$ where your mouth is.

meaning what? you don't know what i do with my time, aside from, you know, targeting you on the internet. :laugh:

[irishgrl]

meaning what? you don't know what i do with my time, aside from, you know, targeting you on the internet. :laugh:
well, aside from what you tell us? working at a sucky job, doing mediocre karaoke, dealing w/obnoxious family, watching assorted trash tv programs, cluttering up the ether with oh so pithy posts.......yeah, you're right. Im sure your calendar is just chock FULL of worthy causes. Im surprised you find the TIME to, you know, target me. (gee, should I feel speshul???)


ETA: misspelling intentional.

[carrie721]

well, aside from what you tell us? working at a sucky job, doing mediocre karaoke, dealing w/obnoxious family, watching assorted trash tv programs, cluttering up the ether with oh so pithy posts.......yeah, you're right. Im sure your calendar is just chock FULL of worthy causes. Im surprised you find the TIME to, you know, target me. (gee, should I feel speshul???)

you know me so well :D

[irishgrl]

you know me so well :D
ewwwww, thats a scary thot.

[strandinthewind]

how do you know she didnt? :shrug: I suggested as much several pages back...

If Ireland told her mother she did not want to honor the established times, then Kim should have filed papers in court to stop the calls, which apparently were established that way, rather than perpetuate the control game using Ireland as a pawn :shrug:

[danax6]

you know me so well :DI think you should feel speshul. She obviously finds you interesting enough to remember all that.

[irishgrl]

If Ireland told her mother she did not want to honor the established times, then Kim should have filed papers in court to stop the calls, which apparently were established that way, rather than perpetuate the control game using Ireland as a pawn :shrug:
how do we know that wasnt already on the agenda? We dont. since the media is barred from all proceedings, its impossible to know just WHAT is going on in this case. Apparently an ATTORNEY, who KNOWS the LAW, made a decision to share the voicemail with the media. I dont know his reason and neither do you and we aren't likely to. So we are all just voicing opinions on very little info.

Personally, I cant help but think that no matter what, this will PROTECT Ireland. Again, a win-win situation. If this was a chess game, Kim's side just outflanked Alec's. Sad but true. All the talk about damaging the child's sensibilities strike me as a bit disingenuous: Ireland has most likely suffered more at her father's hand than anything else.

[irishgrl]

I think you should feel speshul. She obviously finds you interesting enough to remember all that.
its a gift, and why I do so well on Jeopardy: all manner of useless info tucked away for future recall. I really should audition for that show...note to self: call Alex asap.........

oh and Vanessa, Thanks for being ever vigilant, never missing the slightest opportunity to snipe at me. I really AM speshul if you cant resist your knee-jerk reaction to snark :D

[jannieC]

btw, not to belittle your "training," but as a molested child, and the mother of a molested child, I find it very VERY difficult to agree with any sentiment that would result in the abuse continuing. You can cloak an awful lot of crapola in the name of "confidentiality".
Your opinion of my training (no quotes) is really not important to me. Confidentiality is a key component of what I do and it is put in place to protect the client, not the abuser. I never once said that I thought the child shouldn't be protected and I have not defended Alec Baldwin. I merely pointed out that I don't believe that betraying a person's confidentiality is a good thing.

[irishgrl]

Your opinion of my training (no quotes) is really not important to me. Confidentiality is a key component of what I do and it is put in place to protect the client, not the abuser. I never once said that I thought the child shouldn't be protected and I have not defended Alec Baldwin. I merely pointed out that I don't believe that betraying a person's confidentiality is a good thing.
Just so you know, confidentiality is a large part of MY job too. However, I am also a mandated reporter and as a result, confidentiality may go out the window. (for example, Elder abuse may find its way into the Police Blotter in your local paper)
In THIS case, we dont know the particulars, other than a father's abusive voicemail was leaked to the press. We dont know if Ireland was at home and refused the call, we dont know if she wasnt at home, we dont know if she was at home but in the bathroom.....we just DONT KNOW.

Im content to leave it up to a Judge whether or not Kim (or her Attorney) acted wrongly. but as far as Im concerned, the short term gain of protecting the daughter against the father is a great enuff gain as to sacrifice a small bit of privacy. If the Judge finds impropriety, so be it. But again, Ireland will be safe now, whether by Court Order or by the arena of Public Opinion.

[danax6]

oh and Vanessa, Thanks for being ever vigilant, never missing the slightest opportunity to snipe at me. I really AM speshul if you cant resist your knee-jerk reaction to snark :DWhat can I say, you bring out the best in me. I love it when pots meet kettles and all. :wavey:

But don't worry, I'm bowing out now, there are not enough cigarettes left in my pack to be able to suffer through this.

[irishgrl]

What can I say, you bring out the best in me. I love it when pots meet kettles and all. :wavey:

But don't worry, I'm bowing out now, there are not enough cigarettes left in my pack to be able to suffer through this.
tsk, isnt it sad when one needs a crutch to deal with life's tribulations?

if you liked meeting the Kettle, have I got a CAN for you (trash can that is)!!

oh lucky day :D perhaps a CIGAR is in order???

[DrummerDeanna]

Oh Jesus H.

First off, Alec Baldwin is NOT an abuser.

This comes from a source I know personally who happens to have close ties to the Baldwin family. I spoke with her last night, and we discussed this issue at lenght. Tru fakt.

There is NO indication that Alec is abusive. This is a blow-up pure and simple. One that WAS set up by his ex-wife, who does NOT have the best interests of Ireland in mind, rather her OWN. And I'm sorry, it's really not that horrible of a blow up! It happens, I venture to say it's happened to A LOT of parents and kids....no that doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make him a big huge abuser either.

And for someone to continually argue about this yet admits to reading NOTHING about it has no real ground to stand on.

This issue is a far cry from a sexual abuse case. And all indications are that normally Alec and Ireland have a pretty good father/daughter relationship. But her mother has long been trying to put a stop to that through various means.

But whatver...clearly someone with their own motivations and agenda will not see it that way.


And the bottom line, I do think this whole thing should have stayed private.

[danax6]

tsk, isnt it sad when one needs a crutch to deal with life's tribulations?

if you liked meeting the Kettle, have I got a CAN for you (trash can that is)!!

oh lucky day :D perhaps a CIGAR is in order???I suggest you and your CAN take a moment and listen to that sound clip again that's in your sig. Brilliant. :D

[carrie721]

Just so you know, confidentiality is a large part of MY job too. However, I am also a mandated reporter and as a result, confidentiality may go out the window.

i believe that jannie is also a mandated reporter. but there is a difference between reporting an incident to the proper authorities and divulging the intimate details of a family feud.

Oh Jesus H.

First off, Alec Baldwin is NOT an abuser.

This comes from a source I know personally who happens to have close ties to the Baldwin family. I spoke with her last night, and we discussed this issue at lenght. Tru fakt.

There is NO indication that Alec is abusive. This is a blow-up pure and simple. One that WAS set up by his ex-wife, who does NOT have the best interests of Ireland in mind, rather her OWN. And I'm sorry, it's really not that horrible of a blow up! It happens, I venture to say it's happened to A LOT of parents and kids....no that doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make him a big huge abuser either.

And for someone to continually argue about this yet admits to reading NOTHING about it has no real ground to stand on.

This issue is a far cry from a sexual abuse case. And all indications are that normally Alec and Ireland have a pretty good father/daughter relationship. But her mother has long been trying to put a stop to that through various means.

But whatver...clearly someone with their own motivations and agenda will not see it that way.


And the bottom line, I do think this whole thing should have stayed private.

WORD to your entire post. i may think the blow-up is worse than you do, but i do not think it means that alec is a perpetual abuser and i do not think it justified being leaked to the press.

[irishgrl]

Oh Jesus H.

First off, Alec Baldwin is NOT an abuser.

This comes from a source I know personally who happens to have close ties to the Baldwin family. I spoke with her last night, and we discussed this issue at lenght. Tru fakt.

There is NO indication that Alec is abusive. This is a blow-up pure and simple. One that WAS set up by his ex-wife, who does NOT have the best interests of Ireland in mind, rather her OWN. And I'm sorry, it's really not that horrible of a blow up! It happens, I venture to say it's happened to A LOT of parents and kids....no that doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make him a big huge abuser either.

And for someone to continually argue about this yet admits to reading NOTHING about it has no real ground to stand on.

This issue is a far cry from a sexual abuse case. And all indications are that normally Alec and Ireland have a pretty good father/daughter relationship. But her mother has long been trying to put a stop to that through various means.

But whatver...clearly someone with their own motivations and agenda will not see it that way.


And the bottom line, I do think this whole thing should have stayed private.

apparently your "source" is a friend of Alec's. (Bias anyone???)

The fact that Ive read nothing has more to do with the media GAG than the fact that Im not interested....

If you dont see thru the hype to the principles beyond, then you just dont SEE. I have repeatedly said that we really dont know the facts, (no not even YOU Deanna) and I trust that a Judge (who will be given all the facts) will rule on this and if (IF) Kim was out of line, then she will be punished. If, however she WAS acting in Ireland's best interest, then all you Alec-lovers will be looking pretty sheepish.

As for the privacy issue: If Kim was at fault, Im sure the Judge will take appropriate action against her. Im satisfied that the Judge will ALSO recognize that Alec does have DOCUMENTED anger issues (which he still has yet to admit and deal with).


ETA: fyi: there IS a media gag in place but prior to that, Kim filed documents that she had back injuries due to Alec's violence.

[irishgrl]

WORD to your entire post. i may think the blow-up is worse than you do, but i do not think it means that alec is a perpetual abuser and i do not think it justified being leaked to the press.
sorry. where there's smoke, there's fire. fakt. or fact. as you prefer.

by the way, if Linda Tripp can divulge the contents of a private conversation that leads to the impeachment of a PRESIDENT, I dont see how an angry father's voicemail is "private". Think about it.

[irishgrl]

by the way, just to give a LEGAL perspective on this issue:

However, the laws of many states recognize that if someone is leaving an answering machine message, then they know that they are being recorded, and so they are giving you permission to record them. In those states, an answering machine message may be introduced in court as evidence.

I'd be happy to research CA law on this but considering the above is a good guideline, I think Alec may be up a creek.

[DrummerDeanna]

apparently your "source" is a friend of Alec's. (Bias anyone???)

The fact that Ive read nothing has more to do with the media GAG than the fact that Im not interested....

If you dont see thru the hype to the principles beyond, then you just dont SEE. I have repeatedly said that we really dont know the facts, (no not even YOU Deanna) and I trust that a Judge (who will be given all the facts) will rule on this and if (IF) Kim was out of line, then she will be punished. If, however she WAS acting in Ireland's best interest, then all you Alec-lovers will be looking pretty sheepish.

As for the privacy issue: If Kim was at fault, Im sure the Judge will take appropriate action against her. Im satisfied that the Judge will ALSO recognize that Alec does have DOCUMENTED anger issues (which he still has yet to admit and deal with).



:laugh: :laugh: Sadly, in this case, you're just really speaking out of the ass :shrug:

I do know some of the facts, believe it or not, as this source was actually very close to the Baldwin family during the time of Alec's marriage to Kim. She still keeps in touch with extended members, but not Alec...and she has no agenda...so bias? Well maybe, but she's got two good eyes and ears and knows what she saw/heard and witnessed first hand. She has absolutely no cause to lie or slant anything.

Basically you are siding with Kim simply because of your own experience. And you've done that before..it's ALWAYS the man's fault, and that is actually bull****. And *I* know that first hand because I have an aunt who alleged for years that my uncle was abusive when guess what...SHE was the abuser...yes, the woman. And frankly, your experience has absolutely nothing to do with this case.

It IS apples and oranges. This isn't even a case of "abuse" in my view.

And what media GAG? There is tons of info out there that will allow one to form a pretty clear picture of what's going on. Of course, one would have to look at the whole situation rationally and take history and what not into consideration. But why would someone want to do something like that? Lets just put Alec in jail, little girls will then be forever safe from being called a pig.

[carrie721]

Lets just put Alec in jail, little girls will then be forever safe from being called a pig.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[carrie721]

by the way, if Linda Tripp can divulge the contents of a private conversation that leads to the impeachment of a PRESIDENT, I dont see how an angry father's voicemail is "private". Think about it.

there wasn't a child involved :shrug:

[irishgrl]

there wasn't a child involved :shrug:
no? Im sure Chelsea appreciates being left out.

[carrie721]

no? Im sure Chelsea appreciates being left out.

omg, are you kidding? :lol: yes chelsea was affected by the situation, i'm sure. but the linda tripp situation wasn't about chelsea, whereas this situation with AB is about ireland. linda tripp, as far as i know, didn't divulge information directly pertaining to chelsea. how are those situations similar? :shrug:

[irishgrl]

:laugh: :laugh: Sadly, in this case, you're just really speaking out of the ass :shrug:

I do know some of the facts, believe it or not, as this source was actually very close to the Baldwin family during the time of Alec's marriage to Kim. She still keeps in touch with extended members, but not Alec...and she has no agenda...so bias? Well maybe, but she's got two good eyes and ears and knows what she saw/heard and witnessed first hand. She has absolutely no cause to lie or slant anything.

Basically you are siding with Kim simply because of your own experience. And you've done that before..it's ALWAYS the man's fault, and that is actually bull****. And *I* know that first hand because I have an aunt who alleged for years that my uncle was abusive when guess what...SHE was the abuser...yes, the woman. And frankly, your experience has absolutely nothing to do with this case.

It IS apples and oranges. This isn't even a case of "abuse" in my view.

And what media GAG? There is tons of info out there that will allow one to form a pretty clear picture of what's going on. Of course, one would have to look at the whole situation rationally and take history and what not into consideration. But why would someone want to do something like that? Lets just put Alec in jail, little girls will then be forever safe from being called a pig.
hello? smoke? fire? a 3000 mile plane trip to "set her straight?" oh NO, he's not abusive....there's no need to worry. Yeah RIGHT.

again. your friend HAS a bias as do you, as do I. But, in my own defense, MY bias is in defense of the CHILD. YOURS? your Friend's? who knows :shrug:

unfortunately for Alec, as I posted already: he may be up a creek because a message knowingly left on a RECORDING DEVISE may waive any right to privacy.....................too bad, so sad.

[irishgrl]

omg, are you kidding? :lol: yes chelsea was affected by the situation, i'm sure. but the linda tripp situation wasn't about chelsea, whereas this situation with AB is about ireland. linda tripp, as far as i know, didn't divulge information directly pertaining to chelsea. how are those situations similar? :shrug:
it WASNT?????? you dont think she was mortified by seeing her DAD and her MOM's MARRIAGE put on the chopping block AND seeing her Dad possibly lose his job as President?????

whatchoo smokin???????? maybe Vanessa's CIGAR????

[carrie721]

unfortunately for Alec, as I posted already: he may be up a creek because a message knowingly left on a RECORDING DEVISE may waive any right to privacy.....................too bad, so sad.

the legality of it doesn't speak to whether or not it was in the child's best interest, which is what you're arguing. how does this back you up?

[carrie721]

it WASNT?????? you dont think she was mortified by seeing her DAD and her MOM's MARRIAGE put on the chopping block AND seeing her Dad possibly lose his job as President?????

whatchoo smokin???????? maybe Vanessa's CIGAR????

maybe she was mortified. but those tapes didn't directly involve her; they weren't directed towards her. therefore, your analogy is moot.

[jannieC]

unfortunately for Alec, as I posted already: he may be up a creek because a message knowingly left on a RECORDING DEVISE may waive any right to privacy.....................too bad, so sad.
Is anyone even talking about Alec's privacy? It's his daughter's privacy that was violated.

[irishgrl]

oh so you're willing to allow Chelsea to be mortified even tho the tapes werent directed towards her? What the hell kind of logic is that???? My point here was that here is a child who suffered because her parent's troubles were being aired in public.....Im not surprised you dont see....

as for the legality: it most certainly DOES have a bearing on what is in the child's best interest, especially if by the airing of said abuse, a child is protected. As it happens, Alec doesnt have a legal leg to stand on. There is no PRIVACY claim. There may even be no confidentiality claim...we dont know. If Ireland agreed to let this go public, then there is no harm to anyone except to Alec who was a jerk. period. and he bears watching. Which isnt a bad thing if Ireland is safe.

btw, Deanna, I find it very hard to believe that a woman who gave birth to a child was more motivated by hate for an ex than by love for her child. Chew on THAT for awhile.

[DrummerDeanna]

hello? smoke? fire? a 3000 mile plane trip to "set her straight?" oh NO, he's not abusive....there's no need to worry. Yeah RIGHT.

again. your friend HAS a bias as do you, as do I. But, in my own defense, MY bias is in defense of the CHILD. YOURS? your Friend's? who knows :shrug:

unfortunately for Alec, as I posted already: he may be up a creek because a message knowingly left on a RECORDING DEVISE may waive any right to privacy.....................too bad, so sad.

"set you straight" is a figure of speech, one my mom used quite often, many parents do. He didn't say, "I'm coming there to beat the **** out of you" He was going to "set her straight" Why? Because she had REPEATEDLY blown him off and treated him with disrespect. Why? Because her mother is using her as a pawn. All indications point to prior to all of this they had a normal father/daugther relationship. Parents and kids fight..did you not know this?

Simple.

And who would I be biased for? I didn't even know my friend knew the Baldwin's until last night :shrug: And again, she has nothing to lose or gain from it- she knows both Kim and Alec..I know none of them, therefore I have no stake in this. I just know what I've read/heard/seen....and I've based my opinion on THAT. Not on men who've abused in the past, or on some random case of abuse in some California court that has no bearing whatsoever on this.

But since I'm not a fan of talking to brick walls, I have nothing left to say really...just my opninions....

[irishgrl]

Is anyone even talking about Alec's privacy? It's his daughter's privacy that was violated.
and: if she agreed? moot point.

[jannieC]

btw, Deanna, I find it very hard to believe that a woman who gave birth to a child was more motivated by hate for an ex than by love for her child. Chew on THAT for awhile.

It happens every day.

[irishgrl]

maybe she was mortified. but those tapes didn't directly involve her; they weren't directed towards her. therefore, your analogy is moot.
wrong, her family life was DIRECTLY impacted.

[DrummerDeanna]

btw, Deanna, I find it very hard to believe that a woman who gave birth to a child was more motivated by hate for an ex than by love for her child. Chew on THAT for awhile.


BTW, Mary, not every mother has their child's best interest in mind. and THAT is a fact. Even women who've popped those little puppies out of a tiny little hole....still have other motives...it happens, and quite often....so your argument has no bearing with me.

[irishgrl]

I suggest you and your CAN take a moment and listen to that sound clip again that's in your sig. Brilliant. :D
I had YOU in mind (among others) when I posted it! so glad you approve :D

[irishgrl]

BTW, Mary, not every mother has their child's best interest in mind. and THAT is a fact. Even women who've popped those little puppies out of a tiny little hole....still have other motives...it happens, and quite often....so your argument has no bearing with me.
then, I submit foster care is in order.

However, I highly doubt a case can be made that Kim doesnt love her daughter, so again, I believe it will be an uphill battle for Alec.

[carrie721]

oh so you're willing to allow Chelsea to be mortified even tho the tapes werent directed towards her? What the hell kind of logic is that???? My point here was that here is a child who suffered because her parent's troubles were being aired in public.....Im not surprised you dont see....

i'm not allowing anything ... wasn't the tripp scandal like 10 years ago? :laugh: i wasn't even a teenager yet. i'm just saying those situations are non analogous. one directly involves a child, the other does not. in one situation, the leaking of that information reveals information about the parent/child relationship, in the other, it does not.

as for the legality: it most certainly DOES have a bearing on what is in the child's best interest, especially if by the airing of said abuse, a child is protected. As it happens, Alec doesnt have a legal leg to stand on. There is no PRIVACY claim. There may even be no confidentiality claim...we dont know. If Ireland agreed to let this go public, then there is no harm to anyone except to Alec who was a jerk. period. and he bears watching. Which isnt a bad thing if Ireland is safe.

btw, Deanna, I find it very hard to believe that a woman who gave birth to a child was more motivated by hate for an ex than by love for her child. Chew on THAT for awhile.

i think you really overestimate motherhood. motherhood doesn't exclude women from being selfish, underhanded, or crazy. no woman became a saint because she popped a baby out. she's still capable of making bad choices - ones that are not in her child's best interest.

[DrummerDeanna]

i think you really overestimate motherhood. motherhood doesn't exclude women from being selfish, underhanded, or crazy. no woman became a saint because she popped a baby out. she's still capable of making bad choices - ones that are not in her child's best interest.

Exactly.

When did I say Kim didn't love Ireland? I didn't. I'm sure she loves her very much, but she's human...and likely a very selfish individual..she's famous actress for fukc's sake.

If you think all mother's always make the best choices completely selflessly for their children you're either drinking heavily or living in a happy fairy land. My certainly made some ****ty choices, in HER interest, I know she still loves m e- but it happens...and is happening in this situation.

If you'd read about this at any lenght, you'd know that.

[jannieC]

i think you really overestimate motherhood. motherhood doesn't exclude women from being selfish, underhanded, or crazy. no woman became a saint because she popped a baby out. she's still capable of making bad choices - ones that are not in her child's best interest.

And, mother's are heinous sexual child abusers too. Which of course, has absolutely nothing to do with Alec Baldwin and his daughter, but here we are, right? :laugh:

[carrie721]

and: if she agreed? moot point.

not at all. she's a minor.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n300/dBsound/fmcrazystevie.gif

[DrummerDeanna]

And, mother's are heinous sexual child abusers too. Which of course, has absolutely nothing to do with Alec Baldwin and his daughter, but here we are, right? :laugh:

Oh God...so true, I've recently read about some horrible cases in which the mother was the sexual abuser, awful.

And yes, I thought at issue was Ireland's privacy, not Alec's. This kid's friends have now all heard this...and kid's at her school and, well, you know...everyone...and that is really not good for the kid at all...so I am complete agreeance (is that a word) that this should have stayed private.

It did NOT serve any purpose...it didn't "bring awareness" to abuse, in my opinion, all it did was serve to embarass the hell out of Alec and really really impact Ireland.

[carrie721]

And, mother's are heinous sexual child abusers too. Which of course, has absolutely nothing to do with Alec Baldwin and his daughter, but here we are, right? :laugh:

absolutely. they're in the minority, but you can't gloss over them. mothers do terrible things to their kids every day and get away with them b/c motherhood is exalted - people can't imagine a mother doing such things to their kids.

but yeah, back to AB. :lol:

[irishgrl]

Exactly.

When did I say Kim didn't love Ireland? I didn't. I'm sure she loves her very much, but she's human...and likely a very selfish individual..she's famous actress for fukc's sake.

If you think all mother's always make the best choices completely selflessly for their children you're either drinking heavily or living in a happy fairy land. My certainly made some ****ty choices, in HER interest, I know she still loves m e- but it happens...and is happening in this situation.

If you'd read about this at any lenght, you'd know that.
what I am saying is that we dont know the particulars of this case and as such all our posts are nothing more than idle speculation. In any event, the only PRIVACY issue here relates to Alec, not Irealnd, because by virtue of the tape being aired, I'd say its a safe bet all principals were consulted, with all potential consequences being discussed.

As for my view of Motherhood, I think its far safer to assume you all have a DIM view of it rather than my having an exaggerated view of it. I dont know what passed for a "mother" in any of YOUR lives, but I'll tell you all frankly, I wish I would have had an advocate in MY life. And, I do more than regale all of you regarding what I think is important. I actually go out and do something about it.

Again: Im content to see what a JUDGE makes of all of this. I pray that Ireland has a better, wiser Judge for her case than my son had for his.

[michelle2677]

http://gallery.greatestjournal.com/albums/up4/731/839731/brick_wall_small_framed.jpg



'nuff said.

[irishgrl]

not at all. she's a minor.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n300/dBsound/fmcrazystevie.gif
minors can still consent, give testimony etc. moot point. sheesh, you need a freakin compass.

[jannieC]

As for my view of Motherhood, I think its far safer to assume you all have a DIM view of it rather than my having an exaggerated view of it. I dont know what passed for a "mother" in any of YOUR lives, but I'll tell you all frankly, I wish I would have had an advocate in MY life. And, I do more than regale all of you regarding what I think is important. I actually go out and do something about it.

Mary, I *am* out doing something. Just because we disagree on this issue does not mean that one person is smarter, more informed, a better advocate, and so on.

[Wild_Heart03]

http://gallery.greatestjournal.com/albums/up4/731/839731/brick_wall_small_framed.jpg



'nuff said.

have I mentioned how much I love you, dear? :xoxo:

[DrummerDeanna]

I'd say its a safe bet all principals were consulted, with all potential consequences being discussed.


I'd say it's a safe that bet none of those things were considered at all. And that Ireland, in fact, had nothing to do with the leaking.

And again, how is this an issue of Alec's privacy over that of the kid? Um, it's not. And no, Mary, a lot of the things we're talking about are NOT speculation - they've been printed all over the damn place...again, if you'd read about it then perhaps you'd see that...or possibly not.

[michelle2677]

have I mentioned how much I love you, dear? :xoxo:

aww..you just love me for my chocolate penises :lol:

[carrie721]

aww..you just love me for my chocolate penises :lol:

i only love you for your frozen turkey b/c my penis hasn't gotten here yet :(

[michelle2677]

i only love you for your frozen turkey b/c my penis hasn't gotten here yet :(

that's because the post office and...http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/Michelle2677/other/jesus-baby-10g.jpg hates ohio, tbh. sorry babe.

[BlackWidow]

aww..you just love me for my chocolate penises :lol:

I have yet to see one of them....:shrug: :shrug:
You're bluffing bitch.:lol:

[jannieC]

I have yet to see one of them....:shrug: :shrug:
You're bluffing bitch.:lol:

Figures when chocolate penises are mentioned, Andre pops in. :laugh:

[irishgrl]

Mary, I *am* out doing something. Just because we disagree on this issue does not mean that one person is smarter, more informed, a better advocate, and so on.
Jannie, I know that. I just happen to think that in this instance the protection of the child outweighs the potential privacy issue. I respect what you do and I happen to admire you personally. But regardless, Im not going to sugarcoat how I feel about this, and I think that Alec has shown himself to be volatile at the very least.

[irishgrl]

I'd say it's a safe that bet none of those things were considered at all. And that Ireland, in fact, had nothing to do with the leaking.

And again, how is this an issue of Alec's privacy over that of the kid? Um, it's not. And no, Mary, a lot of the things we're talking about are NOT speculation - they've been printed all over the damn place...again, if you'd read about it then perhaps you'd see that...or possibly not.
interesting: I go from being an informed, intelligent poster to an ignorant unwaware poster based on THIS???? the fact that we disagree on this ONE thing? well, I guess I know what passes for "friendship" in YOUR neck of the woods....

[irishgrl]

have I mentioned how much I love you, dear? :xoxo:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/celtic4evr/nicetry.jpg

yeah yeah. I love her too.

[carrie721]

quick, someone do some handwriting analysis! :laugh:

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n300/dBsound/fmcrazystevie.gif

[irishgrl]

quick, someone do some handwriting analysis! :laugh:

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n300/dBsound/fmcrazystevie.gif
um....can we wait until Stevie quits having seizures???

[michelle2677]

I wanna know where the hell that thing came from originally LOL

[carrie721]

that's because the post office and...http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/Michelle2677/other/jesus-baby-10g.jpg hates ohio, tbh. sorry babe.

:(

um....can we wait until Stevie quits having seizures???

stevie will never stop having seizures.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n300/dBsound/fmcrazystevie.gif

[strandinthewind]

apparently your "source" is a friend of Alec's. (Bias anyone???)

The fact that Ive read nothing has more to do with the media GAG than the fact that Im not interested....

If you dont see thru the hype to the principles beyond, then you just dont SEE. I have repeatedly said that we really dont know the facts, (no not even YOU Deanna) and I trust that a Judge (who will be given all the facts) will rule on this and if (IF) Kim was out of line, then she will be punished. If, however she WAS acting in Ireland's best interest, then all you Alec-lovers will be looking pretty sheepish.

As for the privacy issue: If Kim was at fault, Im sure the Judge will take appropriate action against her. Im satisfied that the Judge will ALSO recognize that Alec does have DOCUMENTED anger issues (which he still has yet to admit and deal with).


ETA: fyi: there IS a media gag in place but prior to that, Kim filed documents that she had back injuries due to Alec's violence.

I love how you think we (and presumably I) are Alec lovers. I think he was an a$$ for doing this, but I think Kim was as well. That you cannot see that Kim had bad intent is a little odd.

Also, they both have a history of violence against each other.

[carrie721]

I wanna know where the hell that thing came from originally LOL

sortasavagelike made it, and posted it as his avatar or sig or something. i think it was his sig. :laugh:

[michelle2677]

sortasavagelike made it, and posted it as his avatar or sig or something. i think it was his sig. :laugh:
oh, I knew he had it, but I didn't realize he made it :laugh:

[irishgrl]

:(



stevie will never stop having seizures.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n300/dBsound/fmcrazystevie.gif
dang.....:shrug:

[strandinthewind]

Jannie, I know that. I just happen to think that in this instance the protection of the child outweighs the potential privacy issue . . . .

Once again, the leaking of this tape serves no judicial interest and has not protected Ireland that I can see. In other words, the same exact results would have been reached if Kim's lawyers played the tape for the judge and never leaked it.

So, what interest is served by showing AB in one tiny part of this divorce nightmare in which they have both been abusive and used their kid to hurt each other?

[irishgrl]

I love how you think we (and presumably I) are Alec lovers. I think he was an a$$ for doing this, but I think Kim was as well. That you cannot see that Kim had bad intent is a little odd.

Also, they both have a history of violence against each other.
Sorry, but as a protective mother, I know that sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. As I said, I could post links/info. it would boggle all your minds. Even yours Jason, as jaded as you are....you have NO idea.

If anyone thinks Im biased, the truth is, I AM. but not without my eyes having been opened by experience.....and by pain for having trusted in the system.



In this case, I still say, the majority of facts have been kept under wraps per prior court order, and we at large really dont know. those of you who are friends of the principles are naturally going to get a biased version.


in any event, my main concern is Ireland's welfare, and in this case I fail to see how disclosure of an abusive phone call constitutes violation of privacy....especially if she agrees ( and she can, under CA law...)....

[strandinthewind]

These people have the best legal teams money can buy. So, they are hardly desperate :shrug:

I am not saying leaking this VM violated any state laws, though it likely violated the judicially placed gag order. I am just saying that it was leaked served no purpose other than to sway public opinion against AB. That is manipulation at the expense of Ireland.

I predict, the court will chastise and fine Kim for leaking the tape. I think it will allow supervised visits between Alec and Ireland.

[irishgrl]

These people have the best legal teams money can buy. So, they are hardly desperate :shrug:

I am not saying leaking this VM violated any state laws, though it likely violated the judicially placed gag order. I am just saying that it was leaked served no purpose other than to sway public opinion against AB. That is manipulation at the expense of Ireland.

I predict, the court will chastise and fine Kim for leaking the tape. I think it will allow supervised visits between Alec and Ireland.
we'll see. I think supervised visits is a step in the right direction.

[DrummerDeanna]

interesting: I go from being an informed, intelligent poster to an ignorant unwaware poster based on THIS???? the fact that we disagree on this ONE thing? well, I guess I know what passes for "friendship" in YOUR neck of the woods....

When did I call you and ignorant unaware poster?

You, yourself, admitted to reading pretty much NOTHING about this :shrug: Your words, not mine. Yet you continue to argue about it from cases that have absolutely nothing to do with this.

And I'm one of the most loyal people in this world...so don't pull that "friendship" **** on me.

[estranged4life]

When I started this thread, I did so ONLY to prove that those Hollywood types are NOT above the common person. People seem to think they are indeed above us...They are NOT, they are on the same EQUAL ground as you & I.

If this episode had happened to the common Joe Blow-RockNRoll noone would give a crap, but as is typical in this country, since it happen to a "Celebrity" it should be the be all/end all...It's not.

Abuse is abuse is abuse...Doesnt matter who's on the giving or receiving end.

If the moderators want to close this thread, feel free to let me know and I will close it.

Take care, Peace out ....and blame Canada!!!

[irishgrl]

When did I call you and ignorant unaware poster?

You, yourself, admitted to reading pretty much NOTHING about this :shrug: Your words, not mine. Yet you continue to argue about it from cases that have absolutely nothing to do with this.

And I'm one of the most loyal people in this world...so don't pull that "friendship" **** on me.
um: you didnt CALL ME ignorant , unaware, but you inferred it by your commentary...which was based (as you said) on the info from a family insider--who apparently has Alec-leanings. What surprised me was your attitude on my position (having an opinion in spite of the media crackdown) that was pro-child and pro-protective parent (in this case, protective mother)
. BTW: I may use unrelated cases IF they have RELATED issues. Apparently you didnt take that into consideration before you judged me.

[irishgrl]

When I started this thread, I did so ONLY to prove that those Hollywood types are NOT above the common person. People seem to think they are indeed above us...They are NOT, they are on the same EQUAL ground as you & I.

If this episode had happened to the common Joe Blow-RockNRoll noone would give a crap, but as is typical in this country, since it happen to a "Celebrity" it should be the be all/end all...It's not.

Abuse is abuse is abuse...Doesnt matter who's on the giving or receiving end.

If the moderators want to close this thread, feel free to let me know and I will close it.

Take care, Peace out ....and blame Canada!!!
Thank you Brian. I appreciate your commentary. I for one am willing to see what the Judge has to say about this (assuming the gag order isnt in place).

PS: ETA: I can assure you I most certainly DO care what happens to Joe Schmoe's kids, been there done that, and going back again. I have leant my name to federal child protective legislation, but in the meantime , I most certainly DO give a **** about CA kids. Celebrity or not. the laws apply to all. (and all you scoffers can kiss my a**)

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

Whatever. lol...I was simply stating my opinions...you read into them what you want. I'll go back to my Alec leaning ways now...

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/alec-baldwin.jpg

[irishgrl]

you GO girl..........in a Deanna-centric Universe, all will be as she thinks it should be. Lets hope its actually what we need.....

[DrummerDeanna]

you GO girl..........in a Deanna-centric Universe, all will be as she thinks it should be. Lets hope its actually what we need.....

What are you even talking about?? Is there a Deanna-centric Universe...I'd love to go there, sounds like a hoot!

And just to be fair, here's a photo of Kim Basinger:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/DeannaRG/7794_21232_1.jpg

See? I don't have any leanings :lol: :lol:

[carrie721]

^ was that taken at the LA confidential premier? i hear it was a full moon that night.

[irishgrl]

What are you even talking about?? Is there a Deanna-centric Universe...I'd love to go there, sounds like a hoot!

And just to be fair, here's a photo of Kim Basinger:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/DeannaRG/7794_21232_1.jpg

See? I don't have any leanings :lol: :lol:
oh, I see I need to call the exorcist. shucks. and here I thot you'd be fair.

thanks for setting me straight.

[irishgrl]

wow in 2005 Alec filed papers calling his daughter a SPY. nuts.
why is it some people miss the point? :shrug:

We are all supposed to believe Alec is just another normal dad who accuses his daughter of odd things, threatens to fly 3000 miles to "straighten her out" and totally denies his part in the physical abuse he perpetrated on Kim. OTAY.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/celtic4evr/OTAY-Buckwheat.jpg

[michelle2677]

What are you even talking about?? Is there a Deanna-centric Universe...I'd love to go there, sounds like a hoot!

And just to be fair, here's a photo of Kim Basinger:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/DeannaRG/7794_21232_1.jpg

See? I don't have any leanings :lol: :lol:



OMG!!!:lol: :lol: :lol:

[DrummerDeanna]

^ was that taken at the LA confidential premier? i hear it was a full moon that night.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Yes...and shortly thereafter I hear she had "horn work" done, but naturally she won't address it...but come ON..clearly work was done....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/DeannaRG/3950_10663_5.jpg

[carrie721]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Yes...and shortly thereafter I hear she had "horn work" done, but naturally she won't address it...but come ON..clearly work was done....

OMGGGGG. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[irishgrl]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Yes...and shortly thereafter I hear she had "horn work" done, but naturally she won't address it...but come ON..clearly work was done....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/DeannaRG/3950_10663_5.jpg
in a word: priorities. Thank GAWD the world has youse guys to guard the world against bad horn jobs.


ETA:: I can almost SEE the PM's flying now......grease your fingers ladies, its gonna be a busy night.....at least on ONE level..................

[irishgrl]

egads...I hope the girl doesn't see those devil momma pics...the public display may send her over the edge. :distress:
yeah, that stuff is supposed to be PRIVATE for crissakes!!!

[DrummerDeanna]

in a word: priorities. Thank GAWD the world has youse guys to guard the world against bad horn jobs.


ETA:: I can almost SEE the PM's flying now......grease your fingers ladies, its gonna be a busy night.....at least on ONE level..................

What PMs??

No PMs over here...paranoid much? Geez...clearly I'm done with even seriously discussing this issue...I'm must having a little fun...you know, in my supposed Deanna-Centric Universe :shrug:

[DrummerDeanna]

egads...I hope the girl doesn't see those devil momma pics...the public display may send her over the edge. :distress:

Yes, I'm sure Ireland frequents the LEdge :rolleyes:

And even if she did, these pictures are public domain...they were taken at premiers...I mean she was prominently displaying those horns...at least now it's out in the open - so now at least some light will be shed upon parents who have horns. :eek:

[irishgrl]

What PMs??

No PMs over here...paranoid much? Geez...clearly I'm done with even seriously discussing this issue...I'm must having a little fun...you know, in my supposed Deanna-Centric Universe :shrug:
who mentioned you??? PARANOID MUCH?????

guess the duties of being the center of the Universe are a bit taxing, eh???

[DrummerDeanna]

who mentioned you??? PARANOID MUCH?????

guess the duties of being the center of the Universe are a bit taxing, eh???

Um...well since you and I and Carrie have been adressing one another all night I felt it was safe to assume you meant me or both of us :shrug: I just used a bit of common sense.

I'm no paranoid, I'm having a blast!

And I really don't get where you're whole "center of the universe" thing is coming from....so basically when you say things like that it's just confusing...I mean good god I disagree with you once in public and you turn into Kim Basinger on me!! :eek:


:laugh: :laugh:

[estranged4life]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/DeannaRG/7794_21232_1.jpg


Wow, I didnt know "Mr.Lordi" (Singer of the Finnish band "Lordi" - He's the dude in the middle of the album artwork) had a twin sister? See my signature below...Cause she does look similar, even down to the glowing red-eyes!!!

[irishgrl]

Um...well since you and I and Carrie have been adressing one another all night I felt it was safe to assume you meant me or both of us :shrug: I just used a bit of common sense.

I'm no paranoid, I'm having a blast!

And I really don't get where you're whole "center of the universe" thing is coming from....so basically when you say things like that it's just confusing...I mean good god I disagree with you once in public and you turn into Kim Basinger on me!! :eek:


:laugh: :laugh:
the road to HELL and all that......glad you're having a blast. How refreshing.

apparently in my time away, I missed the news that you and Carrie were actually joined at the hip as it were....sharing a brain.....egad, what a shame. the decline and fall of a good person.....is there going to be a memorial service?? I wont come but I might (might) send a postcard....

[DrummerDeanna]

the road to HELL and all that......glad you're having a blast. How refereshing.

apparently in my time away, I missed the news that you and Carrie were actually joined at the hip as it were....sharing a brain.....egad, what a shame. the decline and fall of a good person.....is there going to be a memorial service?? I wont come but I might (might) send a postcard....

what are you even talking about? Carrie and I have always been friends :shrug: We're not joined at the hip though, because Ohio scares me and makes the Baby Jesus cry.

Oh and what road to HELL?

I'm really quite confused...

[irishgrl]

what are you even talking about? Carrie and I have always been friends :shrug: We're not joined at the hip though, because Ohio scares me and makes the Baby Jesus cry.

Oh and what road to HELL?

I'm really quite confused...
ahhhh
truer words were never spoken. hold that thot.

[carrie721]

what are you even talking about? Carrie and I have always been friends :shrug: We're not joined at the hip though, because Ohio scares me and makes the Baby Jesus cry.

Oh and what road to HELL?

I'm really quite confused...

baby jesus refuses to let me get chocolate penises in the mail :( run away, dee, run far far away.

[irishgrl]

baby jesus refuses to let me get chocolate penises in the mail :( run away, dee, run far far away.
baby jesus hears VOICES and sees DEAD PEOPLE.

also does tax returns but thats another story.

[michelle2677]

baby jesus refuses to let me get chocolate penises in the mail :( run away, dee, run far far away.


actually she doesn't need to run far far away because she already got hers :lol:

[carrie721]

actually she doesn't need to run far far away because she already got hers :lol:

insult, meet injury :( :( :distress: :distress:

:lol:

[estranged4life]

"Now you kids play nice, Or Daddy here will take away your toy" :lol:

[irishgrl]

"Now you kids play nice, Or Daddy here will take away your toy" :lol:
oh NOW you come in!!!

[michelle2677]

insult, meet injury :( :( :distress: :distress:

:lol:


hahaahah....nice to meet you :wavey: :wavey: :lol:

[irishgrl]

hahaahah....nice to meet you :wavey: :wavey: :lol:
looks crosseyed. wassup with that??

[michelle2677]

looks crosseyed. wassup with that??


what's crosseyed??

[irishgrl]

what's crosseyed??
you're kidding right??????

ok: you look at a pencil or a finger or something that both your eyes can focus on....and it comes closer and closer to your face and your eyes go all the way to your nose....so if someone were to take a picture of you, your eyes would look like they are looking at your nose!!!! its pretty funny actually....now look at that bat. he looks crosseyed.

[estranged4life]

oh NOW you come in!!!

in my case I am always late :lol:

Hey, I'm in a good mood tonight, I'm not tempting fate...

[DrummerDeanna]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think she was asking to what you were referring to as cross-eyed, she lives in Kentucky she KNOWS what cross-eyed means :p

[michelle2677]

you're kidding right??????

ok: you look at a pencil or a finger or something that both your eyes can focus on....and it comes closer and closer to your face and your eyes go all the way to your nose....so if someone were to take a picture of you, your eyes would look like they are looking at your nose!!!! its pretty funny actually....now look at that bat. he looks crosseyed.


I know what the **** crosseyed is :lol: :lol:


i meant...what were you saying was crosseyed :lol: :lol: actually, that's pretty damn funny:laugh:


and that's because he's bat**** :shrug:

[estranged4life]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think she was asking to what you were referring to as cross-eyed, she lives in Kentucky she KNOWS what cross-eyed means :p
Q-What do you call a Kentuckian who's cross-eyed?



A-NORMAL!!!

[michelle2677]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think she was asking to what you were referring to as cross-eyed, she lives in Kentucky she KNOWS what cross-eyed means :p
hey bitch. shut up:laugh: i just sent you a chocolate penis!!! you better be nice to me:laugh: :p

[irishgrl]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think she was asking to what you were referring to as cross-eyed, she lives in Kentucky she KNOWS what cross-eyed means :p
um, is that some sort of inbreeder type joke??? like one strand of DNA or something??? and here I was trying to get a good pic of crosseyed...

[DrummerDeanna]

hey bitch. shut up:laugh: i just sent you a chocolate penis!!! you better be nice to me:laugh: :p

You know, I thought about that. I'm sorry...I hope my joke didn't make the baby jesus cry. And I do so love my chocolate penis...so I'll be nice...I promise :p


And it was more of just a random way to dig into Kentucky..I get so few opportunities, I thought I'd take it.

[irishgrl]

well you all have to suffer with my crosseyed pic any HOW. so THERE.

http://images-partners-tbn.google.com/images?q=tbn:Rqse6IzWDD_bqM:tombammann.homedns.org/wp-content/crosseyed.jpg

[estranged4life]

Uh oh, I forgot, my older sis Lesa was born somewhat cross-eyed...

Meaning people in Colorado are ALSO cross-eyed!!! :thumbsup:

[irishgrl]

Uh oh, I forgot, my older sis Lesa was born somewhat cross-eyed...

Meaning people in Colorado are ALSO cross-eyed!!! :thumbsup:
Yet ANOTHER reason to be THRILLED I live in CA!!!!!!!

[estranged4life]

Yet ANOTHER reason to be THRILLED I live in CA!!!!!!!

Lesa resides in CA!!! Of course she loves to say I am more Californian than lifelong Californians - is that good or bad??? :shrug:

[Livia]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1755972/

The daughter responds. :thumbsup:

[xdreamsunwindx]

ETA: misspelling intentional.

Thanks for clearing that up!

[trackaghost]

apparently in my time away, I missed the news that you and Carrie were actually joined at the hip as it were....sharing a brain.....egad, what a shame. the decline and fall of a good person.....is there going to be a memorial service?? I wont come but I might (might) send a postcard....

Wow Mary are your friends never allowed to disagree with you?
Deanna doesn't side with you one time and you turn on her.

[irishgrl]

Wow Mary are your friends never allowed to disagree with you?
Deanna doesn't side with you one time and you turn on her.
she did more than just disagree. Anyone who accuses me of having "my own agenda" of not being able to "think rationally" is no friend of mine. (not even taking into account the "drinking heavily" or "living in lala land" comments...:shrug: )

I may have a bias but we all do. My main point is that because this leaked out, I believe Ireland will be safer, which IMO is a good thing.

[trackaghost]

I still think it was a disagreement :shrug:


This was on the imdb today:

Baldwin's Daughter Embarrassed by Tape Controversy

The daughter at the center of Kim Basinger and Alec Baldwin's nasty custody battle is desperate for the family fight to end, according to her uncle. Ireland Baldwin, 11, hit the headlines last week when an angry recorded telephone message left for her by her father was leaked to the media. The actor called his daughter a "rude, thoughtless little pig" when she chose to ignore a court-ordered weekly phone chat with her father. A week after the tape hit internet sites and news shows in America, the 30 Rock actor's brother William Baldwin claims his niece has been "embarrassed" by the drama, and wishes it was all over. The Backdraft star says, "I know that she wishes this would end." But the younger Baldwin insists Ireland has no ill feelings towards her dad, despite the controversy and the names he called her. He adds, "I know that she has a great relationship with her dad. I know that she loves her dad very much."

I personally think both parents are as bad as each other. Baldwin went too far in his rant in that voice message and Kim went too far leaking it. I'd be mortified if I was a 12 year old kid having to deal with everyone in the world hearing that. Both are damaging IMO

[Kelly]

I still think it was a disagreement :shrug:


This was on the imdb today:

Baldwin's Daughter Embarrassed by Tape Controversy

The daughter at the center of Kim Basinger and Alec Baldwin's nasty custody battle is desperate for the family fight to end, according to her uncle. Ireland Baldwin, 11, hit the headlines last week when an angry recorded telephone message left for her by her father was leaked to the media. The actor called his daughter a "rude, thoughtless little pig" when she chose to ignore a court-ordered weekly phone chat with her father. A week after the tape hit internet sites and news shows in America, the 30 Rock actor's brother William Baldwin claims his niece has been "embarrassed" by the drama, and wishes it was all over. The Backdraft star says, "I know that she wishes this would end." But the younger Baldwin insists Ireland has no ill feelings towards her dad, despite the controversy and the names he called her. He adds, "I know that she has a great relationship with her dad. I know that she loves her dad very much."

I personally think both parents are as bad as each other. Baldwin went too far in his rant in that voice message and Kim went too far leaking it. I'd be mortified if I was a 12 year old kid having to deal with everyone in the world hearing that. Both are damaging IMO


ITA. Kim is just as bad for leaking the tape in the first place. She publically embarrassed her daughter for her own gain. Sad and pathetic move. I fail to see how Ireland is safer as a result of her Mom's self serving move. However, I am not really familiar with the facts of the case, just generalities. Is Kim accusing Alec of being physically abusive? Is there any proof that he has physically mistreated his daughter or do we just have the Mom making these allegations?

[irishgrl]

ITA. Kim is just as bad for leaking the tape in the first place. She publically embarrassed her daughter for her own gain. Sad and pathetic move. I fail to see how Ireland is safer as a result of her Mom's self serving move. However, I am not really familiar with the facts of the case, just generalities. Is Kim accusing Alec of being physically abusive? Is there any proof that he has physically mistreated his daughter or do we just have the Mom making these allegations?
Kelly, as far as I know the physical abuse was by Alec to Kim. Ive not seen any hard evidence that Alec ever got physical with his daughter, but I do know that verbal abuse and physical abuse often go hand in hand generally speaking.

as for your question re: Ireland being safer (I assume you're referring to MY prior comment) 1) I believe the Courts will take steps to ensure her safety based on this voicemail and 2) Alec will be more circumspect in his treatment of her.

btw, Im not surprised Alec's family is publicly supporting him, thats to be expected isnt it??

In an ideal world, divorcing parents would set aside their personal feelings about their ex, and work in concert for the good of the children. Im not sure where the hatred in this case stems from but apparently there must be SOME reason why these two are so locked in this power struggle :shrug:

[DrummerDeanna]

she did more than just disagree. Anyone who accuses me of having "my own agenda" of not being able to "think rationally" is no friend of mine. (not even taking into account the "drinking heavily" or "living in lala land" comments...:shrug: )

I may have a bias but we all do. My main point is that because this leaked out, I believe Ireland will be safer, which IMO is a good thing.

Um...well I wasn't accusing you...it's clear! And it is a disagreement, which apparently (like *some* other peopel on this board) you're not allowed to engage in and still be friends.

And I do maintain that *anyone* who thinks all mothers are selfless saints because they simply gave birth IS, in fact, living in lala land. Your own agenda...well you're judging this whole case solely on your own, or at least that's where you said you were coming from, that is not rational...I'm sorry. You also admit freely to knowing very little about this...yet continue to argue about it..again, not so rational.

And you've yet to mention that Kim was equally physically abusive to Alec...also a known factor in this. But there is absolutely no evidence that he's been physically abusive to Ireland, nor has Kim...but clearly they're both using the kid in this. Though many on here disagree with me on the severity of the tape - I do not think it goes hand in hand with physical abuse...all it did was serve to embarass Ireland.

[irishgrl]

Um...well I wasn't accusing you...it's clear! And it is a disagreement, which apparently (like *some* other peopel on this board) you're not allowed to engage in and still be friends.

And I do maintain that *anyone* who thinks all mothers are selfless saints because they simply gave birth IS, in fact, living in lala land. Your own agenda...well you're judging this whole case solely on your own, or at least that's where you said you were coming from, that is not rational...I'm sorry. You also admit freely to knowing very little about this...yet continue to argue about it..again, not so rational.

And you've yet to mention that Kim was equally physically abusive to Alec...also a known factor in this. But there is absolutely no evidence that he's been physically abusive to Ireland, nor has Kim...but clearly they're both using the kid in this. Though many on here disagree with me on the severity of the tape - I do not think it goes hand in hand with physical abuse...all it did was serve to embarass Ireland.
my whole point in posting my (and my son's) experience was to show that 1) many times, mothers (and children) are not believed by courts unless something really HUGE happens and 2) legal posturing is standard operating procedure in Family Court cases. You'd be surprised.

I never said ALL mothers were selfless saints...what I did say was that I believed Kim had more noble motives than any of you were willing to give her credit for. Im giving her the benefit of the doubt, because truly, the only person who OBVIOUSLY did something questionable here is Alec. I dont know who leaked the voicemail. and neither do you.

As for my not knowing anything about this, the truth is, none of us do. Im merely positing posible explanations and opinions based on MY OWN knowledge of the Family Court system and the ugly realities of child abuse.

Perfectly rational.

I never said Alec physically abused Ireland. And we only have Jason's hearsay that Kim was abusive to Alec. Perhaps she was. But Alec didnt claim any physical harm from Kim in HIS statements in the past, yet Kim stated Alec caused her back injury. Thus, I dont think its outside the realm of possibility that Kim may have been defending herself. Also perfectly understandable.

[sara1998]

that's because the post office and...http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/Michelle2677/other/jesus-baby-10g.jpg hates ohio, tbh. sorry babe.

I got MY chocolate penis in the mail....
.... you all can thank me for that, according to Michele....

[strandinthewind]

. . . as for your question re: Ireland being safer (I assume you're referring to MY prior comment) 1) I believe the Courts will take steps to ensure her safety based on this voicemail and 2) Alec will be more circumspect in his treatment of her . . . .

And - you have yet to provide one good reason why the public releasing of this tape serves those purposes as the court would have protected the daughter anyway :shrug:

But, that horse is beaten enough and you will never admit that.

Here is another article --

Baldwin: 'If I never acted again I couldn't care less'

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Divorced dad Alec Baldwin, caught yelling at his daughter on a voicemail message, said Wednesday he asked NBC to let him out of his "30 Rock" contract so he can devote his time to the issue of "parental alienation."

"If I never acted again I couldn't care less," Baldwin said in a pre-taped appearance for ABC's "The View," scheduled to air Friday.

The actor, in a transcript provided to The Associated Press by "The View," said that he also wanted to quit "30 Rock" so the sitcom and the hundreds who work on it wouldn't "be hurt by the situation."

NBC, however, quickly shot down the idea. The actor has became a key asset for the freshman sitcom, stealing the show as an oily but charming network executive overseeing a "Saturday Night Live"-type program.

"Alec Baldwin remains an important part of '30 Rock.' We look forward to having him continue his role in the show," NBC said in a statement Wednesday.

A network spokeswoman said she didn't know how many seasons his contract covered. A call to Baldwin's publicist in New York was not immediately returned.

Baldwin intends to fulfill his obligation to the show, a source close to the actor said Wednesday, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to make a statement.

"30 Rock," created by and starring "Saturday Night Live" alumna Tina Fey, has been renewed for a second year. Production wrapped in March and the season finale airs Thursday for the show that has gotten rave reviews but mediocre ratings.

Baldwin and ex-wife Kim Basinger have been embroiled since their 2002 divorce in a custody dispute over their daughter, Ireland, 11. It boiled up recently over Baldwin's telephone message for his daughter, berating her as a "rude, thoughtless little pig" for missing his call.

A tape of the message was obtained by celebrity Web site TMZ.com and broadcast worldwide. The actor blamed his former wife for leaking the tape, which she denied.

Baldwin was interviewed on "The View" by Barbara Walters and Rosie O'Donnell. (O'Donnell announced Wednesday she would be leaving the show after she and ABC failed to come to terms on a contract.)

Walters asked Baldwin about his harsh remarks to his daughter.

"You didn't mean to say it to your child?" she said.

"Well, there's nothing wrong with being frustrated or angry about something," he replied. "It's the way you do it, and as people often do in this world, I took it out on the wrong person because I'm unable, under the current dynamic, to address the other person."

"I realize that was wrong," Baldwin added.

"You said it to your daughter, but you meant it for your ex-wife?" Walters asked.

"Well, I think that goes without saying, quite frankly," Baldwin said.

Asked by Walters if he had spoken to his daughter since and how things stood, Baldwin declined to answer, citing "ongoing procedures and so forth."

The next hearing on visitation issues is scheduled for May 4.

According to the partial transcript from "The View," Baldwin said he intended to take "three years or five years, it doesn't matter," and focus on the problem of divorced parents and their children. He has a book coming out about divorce litigation, possibly this fall, he said.

"There were bills that were proposed (by California lawmakers) that were killed which were about equality and co-parenting and divorce litigation and ... this is work that I've been creeping up on, but I've been busy," he said.

Acting has lost its importance to him, he said.

"I've had enough of this quite frankly to last me a lifetime, especially in the modern tabloid world and ... there's a bigger thing I want to do, there's a more important thing I want to do," Baldwin said.

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/26/people.baldwin.ap/index.html

[carrie721]

I got MY chocolate penis in the mail....
.... you all can thank me for that, according to Michele....

thank you, maria :D

still waiting on mine ... :laugh:

[estranged4life]

"I'm a Pepper, he's a Pepper, she's a Pepper...Wouldnt you like to be a Pepper too? Be a Pepper, Drink Dr.Pepper" :shrug:

I would ask for a chocalate vagina, but I am sure someone would send me either Star Jones or a chocalate penis instead :shrug:

[irishgrl]

And - you have yet to provide one good reason why the public releasing of this tape serves those purposes as the court would have protected the daughter anyway :shrug:

But, that horse is beaten enough and you will never admit that.

Whether or not we agree about the rightness or wrongness of the tape being leaked, I happen to believe that ASIDE from whatever actions a court might take, Alec himself, without the public humiliation might have continued to treat Ireland in the same over the top manner. THAT is what I think the public airing accomplished that a mere Court could not. I think this brings home for him in a very real way just how asshole-ish he was. At least in this instance.

[DrummerDeanna]

thank you, maria :D

still waiting on mine ... :laugh:

Mine is sitting here staring at me....laughing because you still haven't gotten yours. But wait. I just had an idea. Since you share the same brain now, do you think if I bit into it you'd also be able to taste it???

:p :p

[carrie721]

Mine is sitting here staring at me....laughing because you still haven't gotten yours. But wait. I just had an idea. Since you share the same brain now, do you think if I bit into it you'd also be able to taste it???

:p :p

don't get my hopes up :distress:

[DrummerDeanna]

don't get my hopes up :distress:

:lol: :lol: Sorry. I guess the point really is moot as I don't plan on biting into it anytime soon...I want to savor it and stare at it...and take photos with it. I love my chocolate penis...I'm just bummed I can't take it sunning with me.

[skcin]

i think you really overestimate motherhood. motherhood doesn't exclude women from being selfish, underhanded, or crazy. no woman became a saint because she popped a baby out. she's still capable of making bad choices - ones that are not in her child's best interest.

Or a drunken slag....or a whore..... :laugh:


It did NOT serve any purpose...it didn't "bring awareness" to abuse, in my opinion, all it did was serve to embarass the hell out of Alec and really really impact Ireland.

Yes. Well said, Dee. That's what I was trying to say.

what I am saying is that we dont know the particulars of this case and as such all our posts are nothing more than idle speculation. In any event, the only PRIVACY issue here relates to Alec, not Irealnd, because by virtue of the tape being aired, I'd say its a safe bet all principals were consulted, with all potential consequences being discussed.

As for my view of Motherhood, I think its far safer to assume you all have a DIM view of it rather than my having an exaggerated view of it. I dont know what passed for a "mother" in any of YOUR lives, but I'll tell you all frankly, I wish I would have had an advocate in MY life. And, I do more than regale all of you regarding what I think is important. I actually go out and do something about it.

Again: Im content to see what a JUDGE makes of all of this. I pray that Ireland has a better, wiser Judge for her case than my son had for his.

You know what they say about assuming....

Jannie, I know that. I just happen to think that in this instance the protection of the child outweighs the potential privacy issue. I respect what you do and I happen to admire you personally. But regardless, Im not going to sugarcoat how I feel about this, and I think that Alec has shown himself to be volatile at the very least.

Well, this is quite a change from you questioning her "training." Talk about demeaning.

the road to HELL and all that......glad you're having a blast. How refreshing.

apparently in my time away, I missed the news that you and Carrie were actually joined at the hip as it were....sharing a brain.....egad, what a shame. the decline and fall of a good person.....is there going to be a memorial service?? I wont come but I might (might) send a postcard....

Wow. :shocked: So Dee's no longer a good person because she disagrees with you? Friends don't always have to agree with one another, they don't always have to back up what the other says. Whenever someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of ganging up on you, or being on "their" side - whoever "they" is. Hi, paranoid. Dee has a difference of opinion than you (it appears most people do, in this thread at least.) So what? Why get so defensive & catty & tell her she's going to hell? WTF?

she did more than just disagree. Anyone who accuses me of having "my own agenda" of not being able to "think rationally" is no friend of mine. (not even taking into account the "drinking heavily" or "living in lala land" comments...:shrug: )

I may have a bias but we all do. My main point is that because this leaked out, I believe Ireland will be safer, which IMO is a good thing.

So, turning the phone call recording over to CPS or their caseworker or the judge or their therapist wouldn't have made her safer? :shrug: That wouldn't have been enough?


And you may have bias? You're the one who brought up your son's case, then turned around & said it was different than this one. Apples & oranges, I believe you said. You keep implying that the rest of us don't care about the welfare of children because we haven't been through the system like you have (which, btw, you don't know for a fact - just because not everyone talks about it here doesn't mean they haven't had similar experiences), when all we're doing is trying to see both sides of the matter and not rush to judgment over 1 phone call. It's obvious to me that your past experience is making you totally biased against men. Somehow I'm sure this isn't the first time you've heard that.

[carrie721]

Or a drunken slag....or a whore..... :laugh:

oh the truthmanity! :lol:

Wow. :shocked: So Dee's no longer a good person because she disagrees with you? Friends don't always have to agree with one another, they don't always have to back up what the other says. Whenever someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of ganging up on you, or being on "their" side - whoever "they" is. Hi, paranoid. Dee has a difference of opinion than you (it appears most people do, in this thread at least.) So what? Why get so defensive & catty & tell her she's going to hell? WTF?

isn't it obvious? dee agrees with me and i'm in league with amber. duh.

[CelticGypsy]

i thought it was pretty mean when i read the transcript.

when i heard it, i almost died.

there is a big difference. and as someone who has heard that tone and those kinds of words on an answering machine message from my father, i can tell you, that poor child will not ever, ever forget it. the ugliness, the meanness, the hatred, the selfishness. it made my stomach turn.

i think it's disgusting that bassigner and/or her lawyer leaked it. the child will also suffer the effects of that kind of animosity between two parents.

i don't care how much a brat she may or may not be (clearly, she has had no example on how to behave from her parents). she is the child. they are the adults (or supposed to be). i hope there are some smart aunts or uncles or grandparents in her life who will teach her and guide her towards the counselling she will no doubt need at some point.


Totally agree with everything you said. It is a sad situation but Alec and Kim will get theirs when that little girl is a teenager:lol:

[irishgrl]

Wow. :shocked: So Dee's no longer a good person because she disagrees with you? Friends don't always have to agree with one another, they don't always have to back up what the other says. Whenever someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of ganging up on you, or being on "their" side - whoever "they" is. Hi, paranoid. Dee has a difference of opinion than you (it appears most people do, in this thread at least.) So what? Why get so defensive & catty & tell her she's going to hell? WTF?

So, turning the phone call recording over to CPS or their caseworker or the judge or their therapist wouldn't have made her safer? :shrug: That wouldn't have been enough?


And you may have bias? You're the one who brought up your son's case, then turned around & said it was different than this one. Apples & oranges, I believe you said. You keep implying that the rest of us don't care about the welfare of children because we haven't been through the system like you have (which, btw, you don't know for a fact - just because not everyone talks about it here doesn't mean they haven't had similar experiences), when all we're doing is trying to see both sides of the matter and not rush to judgment over 1 phone call. It's obvious to me that your past experience is making you totally biased against men. Somehow I'm sure this isn't the first time you've heard that.


Again, she did more than just disagree. She put words in my mouth I didnt say and then belittled those false statements.
I never said ALL women were saints. But Im the only one here who has even Given Kim the benefit of the doubt. :shrug:

btw: who is a drunken slag or whore?

I find it funny that you even were able to TYPE that you're trying to see both sides of this situation; You've ALL blamed Kim from the beginning. And she did nothing wrong. We dont know WHO leaked the call, but the fact remains, ALEC is the one who blew it. Who is REALLY rushing to judgement here? Not only do you fault Kim, you fault ME and I've done nothing wrong either. Yeah, really objective the lot of you.

[skcin]

Again, she did more than just disagree. She put words in my mouth I didnt say and then belittled those false statements.
I never said ALL women were saints. But Im the only one here who has even Given Kim the benefit of the doubt. :shrug:

btw: who is a drunken slag or whore?

I find it funny that you even were able to TYPE that you're trying to see both sides of this situation; You've ALL blamed Kim from the beginning. And she did nothing wrong. We dont know WHO leaked the call, but the fact remains, ALEC is the one who blew it. Who is REALLY rushing to judgement here? Not only do you fault Kim, you fault ME and I've done nothing wrong either. Yeah, really objective the lot of you.

Um. I never blamed Kim. :confused: I just didn't think it was necessary for this private matter to be made public for the world to see & hear. You never answered me - wouldn't it have helped Ireland to give the recording to the judge/CPS/caseworker etc? Was the relase to the media necessary to protect the child?

And we call Carrie's mom a whore all the time. You seem to think you know everything else about Carrie, I'm surprised you don't remember that fakt. :rolleyes: Carrie was bringing up some attributes that make people poor moms (to argue your assertion that someone who gives birth to a child could never use that child as a pawn in a fight with their ex) and she forgot a couple. I'm sure I'll think of more.....

[strandinthewind]

Whether or not we agree about the rightness or wrongness of the tape being leaked, I happen to believe that ASIDE from whatever actions a court might take, Alec himself, without the public humiliation might have continued to treat Ireland in the same over the top manner. THAT is what I think the public airing accomplished that a mere Court could not. I think this brings home for him in a very real way just how asshole-ish he was. At least in this instance.

First, other than the use of the word "pig," I do not think the VM was that bad. You harp on the staighten you out language, but you are infering that he is going to beat the hell out of her. There has been no evidence he has ever done that. So, I conclude that if we took kids away from parents who speak harshly to them, I submit at least half of the kids in America would be in foster care. I also conclude more parent's should discipline their kids based on the brats I see running free in the mall.

Having said that, Ireland's apparent repeated disrespect of her father's set talk time is brattish behavior and she deserved to be called out by AB and Kim for it. If she did not want to talk to her father (and no one has said she did not) -- then she should have told her mother. Moreover, her mother, the adult, should have made sure her 11 year old daughter was there to answer the phone. I mean come on, who is the fukcing adult here :rolleyes:

Finally, I highly doubt an 11 year old has the savy to leak that VM. Kim, on the other hand had every reason to and the wherewithall to do it.

But, you will never ever admit that Kim did anything wrong or could even possibly have done anything wrong -- and even if she did, any public humiliation of Ireland was worth it to bring this topic into general public discourse.

Anyway, last word is your's until we know more facts, which I think will be revealed on The View tommorow :D

[DrummerDeanna]

oh the truthmanity! :lol:



isn't it obvious? dee agrees with me and i'm in league with amber. duh.

Uh oh...does that in turn put ME in league with amber? because she'd be completely thrilled about that...she wuvs me...like Alec Baldwin loves..oh nevermind...you can finish that thought Carrie ;) :laugh: :laugh:


Either way...had Mary read anything at all about this case, she'd see that Kim is not a blameless saint in this at all...and no, that is not just speculation, there is crap that's been aired for years about her not being a saint. No one is saying Alec is a saint either....but really this (ledge argument) has been taken to a whole new and ridiculous level.

[sara1998]

Christ on a Cracker people.... give it up.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/deftonesosu/christcracker.jpg

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

Actually, Maria, that looks more like Christ IN a cracker....:p :p

[sara1998]

^^

Actually, Maria, that looks more like Christ IN a cracker....:p :p

Hey, don't knock it. Best I could find on short notice.

[irishgrl]

First, other than the use of the word "pig," I do not think the VM was that bad. You harp on the staighten you out language, but you are infering that he is going to beat the hell out of her. There has been no evidence he has ever done that. So, I conclude that if we took kids away from parents who speak harshly to them, I submit at least half of the kids in America would be in foster care. I also conclude more parent's should discipline their kids based on the brats I see running free in the mall.

Having said that, Ireland's apparent repeated disrespect of her father's set talk time is brattish behavior and she deserved to be called out by AB and Kim for it. If she did not want to talk to her father (and no one has said she did not) -- then she should have told her mother. Moreover, her mother, the adult, should have made sure her 11 year old daughter was there to answer the phone. I mean come on, who is the fukcing adult here :rolleyes:

Finally, I highly doubt an 11 year old has the savy to leak that VM. Kim, on the other hand had every reason to and the wherewithall to do it.

But, you will never ever admit that Kim did anything wrong or could even possibly have done anything wrong -- and even if she did, any public humiliation of Ireland was worth it to bring this topic into general public discourse.

Anyway, last word is your's until we know more facts, which I think will be revealed on The View tommorow :D
I agree with you, regarding language content, the word "pig" is relatively mild compared to other things I've heard angry people say. I think it was the vehemence that shocked a lot of folks :shrug: I never said Alec had a history of hitting Ireland, but I DO get the impression he's a control freak just by the fact that he's willing to fly 3000 miles to set her straight....thats a bit extreme IMO, and again, not much to look forward to in a visit.

I dont believe Ireland leaked that tape, I dont think anyone thinks she did it. I think its probably safer to posit that Kim's attorney advised that the tape go public. I dont know his reasons....but I doubt Kim did it on her own. This all smacks of strategic maneuvering to me :shrug:

I personally doubt we'll hear too much more in the way of "facts" I think what we will hear will be spin from both camps trying to sway public opinion.

Paula, to answer your question: after what I saw happen in my own case and in many other similar cases, I can tell you truly that none of the avenues you suggested are a guarantee of safety. My son was left to his father's "tender mercies" for a year and a half in spite of overwhelming evidence of the folly that would be. As for the bit about Carrie, contrary to popular opinion, I dont scrutinize all her posts :shrug:
I dont expect ANYONE to agree with me, but I will say my opinion is just as valid as any of yours.

[skcin]

I personally doubt we'll hear too much more in the way of "facts" I think what we will hear will be spin from both camps trying to sway public opinion.

Paula, to answer your question: after what I saw happen in my own case and in many other similar cases, I can tell you truly that none of the avenues you suggested are a guarantee of safety. My son was left to his father's "tender mercies" for a year and a half in spite of overwhelming evidence of the folly that would be. As for the bit about Carrie, contrary to popular opinion, I dont scrutinize all her posts :shrug:
I dont expect ANYONE to agree with me, but I will say my opinion is just as valid as any of yours.

1 - Well, we agree on something as far as facts coming out.

2 - I never said they were guarantees. But neither is releasing the recording to the media. Would you have gone to the media with a video of your son's abuse, or his detailed description of what happened? I know it's a different situation, but you brought it up so I'm trying to understand. I don't think you would do that, even if you felt you weren't being fairly heard by CPS/judge/whoever involved with the case.

3 - Well after your post describing what you know about Carrie, it seemed that you had been studying up or something. I asssumed you knew that Carrie's mom's a whore.

[The Tower]

I have never appreciated the Ignore function as much as I do now. :nod:

On another note- no one sent me any freeking chocolate penises.... Are they solid milk chocolate, or are they hollow like easter bunnies? If they're hollow, who's member were they cast from? <--- I guess this answer would determine whether or not I would want one.

[carrie721]

I have never appreciated the Ignore function as much as I do now. :nod:

On another note- no one sent me any freeking chocolate penises.... Are they solid milk chocolate, or are they hollow like easter bunnies? If they're hollow, who's member were they cast from? <--- I guess this answer would determine whether or not I would want one.

they're solid, but they're small ... so i think the molds were made by strand? i dunno. :angel:

oh wait, am i on ignore? :shrug: :laugh: :wavey:

[skcin]

they're solid, but they're small ... so i think the molds were made by strand? i dunno. :angel:

oh wait, am i on ignore? :shrug: :laugh: :wavey:


Literally LOL! :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

they're solid, but they're small ... so i think the molds were made by strand? i dunno. :angel:

oh wait, am i on ignore? :shrug: :laugh: :wavey:

Tweezers ;)

[carrie721]

Literally LOL! :laugh:

paula, i know it's unorthodox, but will you be my lezbo hag? :laugh: :D

Tweezers ;)

i hate to think what it looks like when you get out of a pool :distress: