50,000 dogs

[amber]

beaten to death in China to try to stop a rabies outbreak??? All that in one county. Um...you mainly are just supposed to kill the ones that have rabies. Isn't rabies passed by blood/saliva? Yes.
Does that seem...stupid...to anyone else? The citizens were offered about 63 cents to kill their own dogs. Three people have died of rabies recently, that is why. There has been an increase in rabies.

China really pisses me off sometimes.
But - only three percent of the dogs are vaccinated against rabies b/c access is limited, especially in the countryside.

If they have enough people to go around and kill all the dogs, including in the countryside, couldn't they have enough to vaccinate the dogs?

I know it's more complex than that, but this just seems...like there could have been something less extreme done. When did China start caring so much about it's people?

I bet some animal groups from several different places could send rabies vaccination parties over. Concentrate first on the areas with fewest vaccinations. I realize it may not be able to be done all at once, but it could still be done.
Bizarre.

[carrie721]

What the fukc?????? Fukc that ****. You don't beat ANYTHING to death, no matter what, unless your life is in immediate danger. Wow, that pisses me off. A lot. Test and euthanize those that are sick ... But you don't ****ing beat an animal to death. GOD!!!!!!!! I HATE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

[David]

beaten to death in China to try to stop a rabies outbreak??? All that in one county. Um...you mainly are just supposed to kill the ones that have rabies. Isn't rabies passed by blood/saliva? Yes.
Does that seem...stupid...to anyone else? The citizens were offered about 63 cents to kill their own dogs. Three people have died of rabies recently, that is why. There has been an increase in rabies.
Most of Asia is definitely not particularly enlightened in animal welfare & treatment issues. And some of Asia is a cesspool of animal brutality.

[amber]

Most of Asia is definitely not particularly enlightened in animal welfare & treatment issues. And some of Asia is a cesspool of animal brutality.

Yes. I guess not just China pisses me off, but intermittently possibly all of Asia.

But that wasn't exactly the focus of my point...it seems like something that could possibly be avoided. I mean...if you are going to use dogs for food, whatever.
But beating 50,000 to stop rabies? It's moronic! Seriously, though, China pisses me off. Would they even let volunteer vaccinators in? Or even, maybe, taken donated quantities of vaccination stuff and had the beaters be the vaccinators, instead?
I guess in China there is so many people that they can't even consider oh, say, more modern solutions? It seriously shocks me, though, that China would care that three people died, care enough to kill 50,000 dogs. Don't they have the one baby ban? And they're the most populous country in the world?
Plz.
What, are the gov't officials going to sell the dogs for meat? That would make more sense, except I don't think you can eat rabies meat. Though probably only a small percentage of them had rabies.

China doesn't give a flying f*ck if anyone wants to do something about this, do they? They're supposed to have the fastest growing economy, we get all kinds of sh*t from them, tons of trade, but somehow no one can vaccinate the dogs in place of them getting beaten to death?

Can someone help me figure this out?

[carrie721]

What, are the gov't officials going to sell the dogs for meat? That would make more sense, except I don't think you can eat rabies meat. Though probably only a small percentage of them had rabies.

To find out what's safe to eat, they'll have to test it. And if they test it after the fact, I'm going to be pissed, because they could've just tested before they savagely beat 50,000 dogs to death.

[amber]

To find out what's safe to eat, they'll have to test it. And if they test it after the fact, I'm going to be pissed, because they could've just tested before they savagely beat 50,000 dogs to death.

Exactly, and there are all kinds of issues I just mentioned similar to that, thus the outcry "can someone help me figure this out?"
It's pretty hard for me to believe that China is going to waste 50,000 bodies of dogmeat. They'll probably make it into dog food. :rolleyes: :mad:

Seriously, this is like, reason number 10 that China pisses me off. Don't get me started about their theories that endangered animals have "magical medicinal properties". Don't get me started about their total disregard for the Ocean. Their recent economic rise using totally polluting equipment, and worse besides. I so hate that we trade with them.

[Miss Vicky]

DISCLAIMER: I am not, in any way, defending what these morons are doing. However, I feel I should point something out:


THERE IS NO WAY TO TEST A DOG FOR RABIES WHILE IT IS STILL ALIVE. The virus lives in brain tissue. In order to definitively test for rabies, the animal's head must be severed and the tissues analyzed. There is, however, a less accurate way to find out if an animal has the virus - quarantine. Animals that have rabies will die very quickly - usually within about 10 days from the time of infection. Therefore, a dog that is still alive after being isolated from all other animals for a period of 10-15 days does not have rabies. The trouble with this method is that if an animal does die within the quarantine period, that does not necessarily mean that it did have rabies.

[irishgrl]

Vicki, your fortune cookie got me to thinking:

One of my co-workers got this one:

Never sniff the inside of a hat.

As for this article, the approach the Chinese are taking reminds me a bit of killing a fly with a sledgehammer..........:distress:

[Miss Vicky]

Never sniff the inside of a hat.

That's just bizarre.

Okay then...

[JazmenFlowers]

here's an article:

A county in southwest China has ordered all 50,546 dogs to be killed in an effort to fight a rabies outbreak that has caused the deaths of three people, state media has said. Around 90 percent of the dogs in Muding county, Yunnan province, had already been killed since the campaign began on July 25, the Beijing News said.
Owners were ordered to kill their pets or face having teams of local police and other enforcement officers kill them, it said. Even the 4,292 dogs in the county that had been immunized against rabies were ordered put to death, as authorities said the immunizations were not 100 percent effective, the report said.

From January through July, 360 people in the county had been bitten by dogs, with the three human deaths occurring since April, the Beijing Times said. Some owners have used methods including hanging their dogs, electrocuting them and clubbing them to death, while others used drugs, the Beijing News said.

Dog owwners had been compensated five yuan (60 cents) each for the loss of their pets.

A reporter for the Beijing News who visited the county said one woman was told by dog-elimination squads patrolling the streets that her dog had to be killed. She covered her eyes as the patrollers beat her dog to death.

To prevent dog owners from violating the order, roadside checkpoints had been set up to inspect vehicles for dogs, the Beijing News said. Any dogs found were immediately killed at the scene.
________________________________________________________________

can you imagine? I mean, being forced to kill your own dog. it makes me sick. I don't see any rationale in any of this. why must the methods be so brutal?

[skcin]

here's an article:

A county in southwest China has ordered all 50,546 dogs to be killed in an effort to fight a rabies outbreak that has caused the deaths of three people, state media has said. Around 90 percent of the dogs in Muding county, Yunnan province, had already been killed since the campaign began on July 25, the Beijing News said.
Owners were ordered to kill their pets or face having teams of local police and other enforcement officers kill them, it said. Even the 4,292 dogs in the county that had been immunized against rabies were ordered put to death, as authorities said the immunizations were not 100 percent effective, the report said.
From January through July, 360 people in the county had been bitten by dogs, with the three human deaths occurring since April, the Beijing Times said. Some owners have used methods including hanging their dogs, electrocuting them and clubbing them to death, while others used drugs, the Beijing News said.

Dog owwners had been compensated five yuan (60 cents) each for the loss of their pets.

A reporter for the Beijing News who visited the county said one woman was told by dog-elimination squads patrolling the streets that her dog had to be killed. She covered her eyes as the patrollers beat her dog to death.

To prevent dog owners from violating the order, roadside checkpoints had been set up to inspect vehicles for dogs, the Beijing News said. Any dogs found were immediately killed at the scene.
________________________________________________________________

can you imagine? I mean, being forced to kill your own dog. it makes me sick. I don't see any rationale in any of this. why must the methods be so brutal?

^ WTF? Why wouldn't it be effective? Sounds like BS to me.


Vicky - how much does rabies vaccine for dogs run? It's really expensive for humans (about $120 per dose - you need 3 doses prophylactically or 5 doses post exposure.) Just wondering. Not that it matters, since China barely gives a **** about their people, let alone their dogs.

[sparky]

This is foul and brutal, as nearly everything about China is.
I do support their one baby rule in theory though, if not in practice.

[amber]

here's an article:

A county in southwest China has ordered all 50,546 dogs to be killed in an effort to fight a rabies outbreak that has caused the deaths of three people, state media has said. Around 90 percent of the dogs in Muding county, Yunnan province, had already been killed since the campaign began on July 25, the Beijing News said.
Owners were ordered to kill their pets or face having teams of local police and other enforcement officers kill them, it said. Even the 4,292 dogs in the county that had been immunized against rabies were ordered put to death, as authorities said the immunizations were not 100 percent effective, the report said.

From January through July, 360 people in the county had been bitten by dogs, with the three human deaths occurring since April, the Beijing Times said. Some owners have used methods including hanging their dogs, electrocuting them and clubbing them to death, while others used drugs, the Beijing News said.

Dog owwners had been compensated five yuan (60 cents) each for the loss of their pets.

A reporter for the Beijing News who visited the county said one woman was told by dog-elimination squads patrolling the streets that her dog had to be killed. She covered her eyes as the patrollers beat her dog to death.

To prevent dog owners from violating the order, roadside checkpoints had been set up to inspect vehicles for dogs, the Beijing News said. Any dogs found were immediately killed at the scene.
________________________________________________________________

can you imagine? I mean, being forced to kill your own dog. it makes me sick. I don't see any rationale in any of this. why must the methods be so brutal?


I read that last night. It didn't answer any of my questions. So three people died. Why would china care. Also, it seems fishy that the immunizations weren't effective. Perhaps they could get the effective ones that everyone else uses, then?:rolleyes:
Sparky - I like the one baby rule, too. Or how about two? Two is plenty of kids. I mean, here, not in China.

[sparky]

Sparky - I like the one baby rule, too. Or how about two? Two is plenty of kids. I mean, here, not in China.

Two is okay, I guess. The problem is that two implies that the current population is fine. I don't agree.

But, of course, China f*cked up even that. They value men so much more than women that they ditch the girl babies and hope for a boy. So far, the best things they are doing are Kung Pao Chicken and slave labor. :laugh:

[amber]

Two is okay, I guess. The problem is that two implies that the current population is fine. I don't agree.

But, of course, China f*cked up even that. They value men so much more than women that they ditch the girl babies and hope for a boy. So far, the best things they are doing are Kung Pao Chicken and slave labor. :laugh:
:laugh:
Except slave labor is actually the worst. In the americans have no jobs sense.
I don't agree either, but Americans would hate that. They would even hate two. I say three at the outset. My friend has three, and that's a plenty big enough family.
My friend's cousin is like, 22 or something and has five. I hate her, abstractly, just for that. I also hate mormons, naturally. :laugh: (I don't really hate all individual mormons, people.)
But still even if three was the limit here, that would cut the growth rate significantly, especially when you consider how many kids immigrant families often have. Like...7? and some already american families, too.

[sparky]

:laugh:
Except slave labor is actually the worst. In the americans have no jobs sense.
I don't agree either, but Americans would hate that. They would even hate two. I say three at the outset. My friend has three, and that's a plenty big enough family.
My friend's cousin is like, 22 or something and has five. I hate her, abstractly, just for that. I also hate mormons, naturally. :laugh: (I don't really hate all individual mormons, people.)
But still even if three was the limit here, that would cut the growth rate significantly, especially when you consider how many kids immigrant families often have. Like...7? and some already american families, too.


I was kidding about the slave labor, Kashina.

Of course people would hate breeding laws. It's about the only power some people have, to squirt out kids with abandon. Don't get me started on that one.:laugh:

[skcin]

It's gross. I can barely handle even the idea of 1 or 2 kids. My stupid cousin has 8. He's rich & can support them & all, but I still think it's gross.

[DrummerDeanna]

It's gross. I can barely handle even the idea of 1 or 2 kids. My stupid cousin has 8. He's rich & can support them & all, but I still think it's gross.


Holy damn!! 8 children!!! I know a gal in Rochester who just had her first - she and her husband want at least 5 more. That, in my opinion, is just socially irresponsible.

A friend of mine has two and is thinking of a third - her own mother told her to be happy with what she has and to not have a third baby...her own mother! But I agree with the lady - nowadays there's really no need for a big family -no farms to work, no barns to raise etc...

[skcin]

^ My old boss has 6 kids. When her daughter had her fourth, she told her to stop or her uterus would fall out. :laugh:

[Rickypt]

I couldn't get past the first few sentences of an article about this, but have to say this is one of the most atrocious actions in my lifetime.

[michelle2677]

beaten to death in China to try to stop a rabies outbreak??? All that in one county. Um...you mainly are just supposed to kill the ones that have rabies. Isn't rabies passed by blood/saliva? Yes.
Does that seem...stupid...to anyone else? The citizens were offered about 63 cents to kill their own dogs. Three people have died of rabies recently, that is why. There has been an increase in rabies.

China really pisses me off sometimes.
But - only three percent of the dogs are vaccinated against rabies b/c access is limited, especially in the countryside.

If they have enough people to go around and kill all the dogs, including in the countryside, couldn't they have enough to vaccinate the dogs?

I know it's more complex than that, but this just seems...like there could have been something less extreme done. When did China start caring so much about it's people?

I bet some animal groups from several different places could send rabies vaccination parties over. Concentrate first on the areas with fewest vaccinations. I realize it may not be able to be done all at once, but it could still be done.
Bizarre.

This is the sort of thing that totally pisses me off. WTF? Why do they have to be "beaten" to death?? Makes no sense whatsoever to me.

[JazmenFlowers]

I've been thinking about this all day, actually. it still turns my stomach. I wish there was something we could do.

[goldie]

When I read about this last night on the web, I felt like I was going to be sick. They even showed a PICTURE. It is so cruel and inhumane. I feel sick now again just thinking about it. I keep hugging my puppy and telling her how much I love her.

[SteveMacD]

beaten to death in China to try to stop a rabies outbreak???

That's not why they did it. They were just tenderizing dinner, that's all. They have McDondald's, too.

Does that seem...stupid...to anyone else? The citizens were offered about 63 cents to kill their own dogs.

Hey, the economy's tough for everyone. Hell, they're not even offered 63 cents to kill their own daughters.

Three people have died of rabies recently, that is why. There has been an increase in rabies.

Message to world: DON'T SCREW WITH CHINA!

China really pisses me off sometimes.

I could make a dirty Sanchez joke here...

[amber]

I could make a dirty Sanchez joke here...

How? :confused:

[SteveMacD]

How? :confused:

It would take a while, but you can always end up with a dirty Sanchez joke.

[Miss Vicky]

Vicky - how much does rabies vaccine for dogs run?

We charge our clients about $12 for a single dose of rabies vaccine. I'm not sure what our cost is, but I think a tray of 25 doses runs $60 or so. Maybe a little more but not a lot.

[amber]

It would take a while, but you can always end up with a dirty Sanchez joke.
I can wait.

[Violet]

[QUOTE=skcin since China barely gives a **** about their people, let alone their dogs.[/QUOTE]

I'm a bit offended by the tone of this thread. I'm not talking about the original subject. I didn't read the article about the dogs, and of course I don't agree with the whole killing 50,000 dogs, but the rest of the China bashing.

As some of you know, my daughter is Chinese, and I am quite familiar with their one child policy and have dealt with several governmental agencies in person in China who most definitely "give a **** about their people."

Quote: But, of course, China f*cked up even that. They value men so much more than women that they ditch the girl babies and hope for a boy. So far, the best things they are doing are Kung Pao Chicken and slave labor.

The one child policy was instituted to try to control the population. In urban areas, you are allowed one child, period. If you have more than one, you are fined HEAVILY. If you are in a rural area and your first-born is a girl, you can have another child to try for a boy. A lot of times baby girls are "abandoned," (which as a mom is a very difficult word for me to use), because boys are preferred. Why are boys preferred? Keep in mind that China's culture is thousands of years old, and although they are rapidly becoming more up-to-date in terms of technology, economics, etc, most of the country is still very, very poor, uneducated and old-fashioned. For thousands of years, sons in China have been relied upon to care for their parents in old age. It is something that has been done in families for generations. Girls are married off to a man who will care for HIS parents.

I visited a village where there were no phones, TV or running water. As our group of Americans walked around that village with 16 Chinese babies, the people there were the friendliest I've ever seen. They followed us around, allowed us to look in their modest homes and made sure our babies were dressed warmly enough.

The government has a department, The Chinese Center for Adoption Affairs, that the ONLY thing they do is match babies with parents and facillitate adoptions. The local government employees I met in Nanchang were thrilled all these children were finding homes. The director of the adoption agency I used has met with the current and past presidents of China several times to discuss adoption issues.

You know, I don't get involved in the political discussions on the Ledge, because when you're bashing the President or the US, you guys live here. But you don't live in China and you're passing judgment on China as a whole, and that sucks.


Carol

[irishgrl]

with all due respect Carol, any culture that values one sex over another (for ANY reason) is messed up. Its no secret (and I guess you know this because you adopted a GIRL) that boys are more important than Girls in Chinese culture. Therefore, there is a built in (IMO) problem with the value put on different sexes. Did you want a boy? did you even ask? if so, what was your answer? just some points to think about.

[amber]

^^^ we weren't talking about your daughter, and actually she's American, isn't she?
I don't think we were talking about any individual Chinese people, either, ie, not China as a whole. I don't think any of us said Chinese people aren't nice. We were speaking moreso about the gov't, and some of the culture, the parts that think it is okay to beat 50,000 dogs, and have slave labor, and not care about the environment.

Also, a few of us were fans of the population control efforts.

Sorry, but China pisses me off. Your daughter, however, does not.

Just because China is poor, uneducated, and thousands of years old doesn't mean we have to think it is okay for them to value boy babies more. China sure as hell doesn't value our cultural values. Maybe if more people express distaste, China will change faster. You never know.

I don't think any of us is lame enough to think every Chinese person, or any Chinese person, is specifically undesireable because they are Chinese. And I think a lot of us are aware of their valuable cultural contributions to the world.

I think we've all also been horrified at political aspects of China. Political aspects that piss us off. Heck yeah I'll pass judgement on China. Also, if China wants population control, do they give birth control to all it's residents? Just wondering.

[Violet]

with all due respect Carol, any culture that values one sex over another (for ANY reason) is messed up. Its no secret (and I guess you know this because you adopted a GIRL) that boys are more important than Girls in Chinese culture. Therefore, there is a built in (IMO) problem with the value put on different sexes. Did you want a boy? did you even ask? if so, what was your answer? just some points to think about.

I never said valuing a boy was right or wrong. I just said it's a custom that is thousands of years old. It's not something that can be changed overnight. Like I said, especially in the more rural areas.

We did not put a preference for a boy or girl. Quite frankly, we just wanted a baby. And FYI, there are boys who are second births who are being abandoned.

[sparky]

The one child policy was instituted to try to control the population. In urban areas, you are allowed one child, period. If you have more than one, you are fined HEAVILY. If you are in a rural area and your first-born is a girl, you can have another child to try for a boy. A lot of times baby girls are "abandoned," (which as a mom is a very difficult word for me to use), because boys are preferred. Why are boys preferred? Keep in mind that China's culture is thousands of years old, and although they are rapidly becoming more up-to-date in terms of technology, economics, etc, most of the country is still very, very poor, uneducated and old-fashioned. For thousands of years, sons in China have been relied upon to care for their parents in old age. It is something that has been done in families for generations. Girls are married off to a man who will care for HIS parents.


Since you quoted my post, I will happily respond. I am well aware of why the policy was instituted. I applaud it. I don't applaud, however, a value system in which female children are ditched for whatever reason. I don't give a rip how old the culture is. Tell that to the abandoned kid.

But you don't live in China and you're passing judgment on China as a whole, and that sucks.
Carol

I pass judgment on places and people all the time when I haven't been the people or lived in the country. Passing judgment is crucial to survival. I love passing judgment. In fact, I just ordered a t-shirt that says "I am silently judging you".
My comments were flip, but this is a message board and I like being flip. I didn't say the country ought to be blown off the map. I leave that particular judgment for select countries in the middle east.

My passing judgment may suck to you, but it sucks not nearly as much as being a kid tossed in a friggin ditch next to hut. Or, for that matter, being a dog that gets beaten to death.

[Violet]

^^^ we weren't talking about your daughter, and actually she's American, isn't she?
I don't think we were talking about any individual Chinese people, either, ie, not China as a whole. I don't think any of us said Chinese people aren't nice. We were speaking moreso about the gov't, and some of the culture, the parts that think it is okay to beat 50,000 dogs, and have slave labor, and not care about the environment.

Also, a few of us were fans of the population control efforts.

Sorry, but China pisses me off. Your daughter, however, does not.

Just because China is poor, uneducated, and thousands of years old doesn't mean we have to think it is okay for them to value boy babies more. China sure as hell doesn't value our cultural values. Maybe if more people express distaste, China will change faster. You never know.

I don't think any of us is lame enough to think every Chinese person, or any Chinese person, is specifically undesireable because they are Chinese. And I think a lot of us are aware of their valuable cultural contributions to the world.

I think we've all also been horrified at political aspects of China. Political aspects that piss us off. Heck yeah I'll pass judgement on China.

First, my daughter is technically Chinese Amerian. She is an American citizen who was born in China to Chinese birthparents.

Second, you are passing judgment on more than just the govt. It's a communist country...trust me, their govt doesn't thrill me, either. Things are definitely changing in the bigger cities -- Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou. It's the smaller communities I'm talking about that are not going to change overnight.

Hey, of course China pisses people off. Pisses me off sometimes, too. That's great, but you're making blanket statements about China not giving a **** about its people, etc. (Yes, I know it wasn't you, Amber, who said that exact quote) I'm trying to help you understand the boy preference. Of course I don't agree with it either. But I can at least try to understand why people who have lived with this custom for centuries are hesitant to give it up so quickly.

I know you were talking more so about the govt. I was trying to give you a feel for how many, many Chinese live.

Also, I never thought my daughter pissed you off. Give me some credit, Amber.

[Violet]

Tell that to the abandoned kid.



I have, and I will again and again and again when she questions how/why she was adopted.

I think it's pretty holier-than-thou of you to pass judgment on everything and anything you want so easily. I'm not like that. I at least TRY to understand why something/someone may be the way they are.

[sparky]

I have, and I will again and again and again when she questions how/why she was adopted.

I wasn't talking about your kid. My post wasn't about your kid. I was speaking hypothetically about the kid in my previous sentence.

I think it's pretty holier-than-thou of you to pass judgment on everything and anything you want so easily. I'm not like that. I at least TRY to understand why something/someone may be the way they are.

Sure you are like that. You sure passed judgment on me pretty quick, Gladys. I post here a whole lot and if you had read anything I have ever written you might have known how to interpret my tone and sense of humor. And btw, everyone passes judgment all day, everyday, on everyone and everything. Otherwise, none of us would make it home alive.

Is there an emoticon for Xanax ? Anyone ? Is there ?

[amber]

First, my daughter is technically Chinese Amerian. She is an American citizen who was born in China to Chinese birthparents.
Nevertheless, she lives here. I'm Italian, but I don't think what Mussolini did was awesome, nor do I think people should excuse it within a cultural context. They can understand it that way, but excusing it, no.

Second, you are passing judgment on more than just the govt. It's a communist country...trust me, their govt doesn't thrill me, either. Things are definitely changing in the bigger cities -- Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou. It's the smaller communities I'm talking about that are not going to change overnight.
No, I wasn't. Oh, wait, yes, I passed judgement on some of their culture, the part that beats 50,000 dogs, doesn't care about the environment, and has slave labor. However, I did say I wasn't judging every Chinese person. I don't care how fast the smaller communities change, the customs may still piss me off.

Hey, of course China pisses people off. Pisses me off sometimes, too. That's great, but you're making blanket statements about China not giving a **** about its people, etc. (Yes, I know it wasn't you, Amber, who said that exact quote) I'm trying to help you understand the boy preference. Of course I don't agree with it either. But I can at least try to understand why people who have lived with this custom for centuries are hesitant to give it up so quickly.

I know you were talking more so about the govt. I was trying to give you a feel for how many, many Chinese live.

Also, I never thought my daughter pissed you off. Give me some credit, Amber.
Logically, your argument (saying your daughter was Chinese) pointed to you thinking I was talking about your daughter, or that somehow your daughter was related to your argument. If you know none of us were pissed of about your daughter, why bring her into it? Doesn't make sense to me. Also, I hope when your daughter gets older, China will piss her off, too.
I'm actually pretty aware about how many, many chinese people live. Just for your info.

I wish China pissed off our gov't not to trade with them. I wish China pissed everyone off enough to effect change in China.

I think that we have enough information about China to within reason say they don't give a **** about their people.

Also, I think a lot of us probably do understand China, why it is like it is, and are passing judgement anyway - so for you to say "at least I try to understand without passing judgement" seems odd. I can understand lots and lots about China and it will still piss me off. Again, without me judging that every individual Chinese person is bad.

I understand why people molest children, it doesn't make me sympathetic enough to say child molesters don't piss me off.


When people are judgemental and pissed off, sometimes that's where the most beneficial change comes.
JMO. Sorry if you are offended, I really am, and you know I like and respect you, but my opinion aobut this won't change in the near future.

[Violet]

I wasn't talking about your kid. My post wasn't about your kid. I was speaking hypothetically about the kid in my previous sentence.



Sure you are like that. You sure passed judgment on me pretty quick, Gladys. I post here a whole lot and if you had read anything I have ever written you might have known how to interpret my tone and sense of humor. And btw, everyone passes judgment all day, everyday, on everyone and everything. Otherwise, none of us would make it home alive.

Is there an emoticon for Xanax ? Anyone ? Is there ?

actually I could use some Xanax, but it's not because of this conversation. It's because of the pile of work on my desk I still have to do before I go away for a few days.

I apologize for misinterpreting your tone. And you're right. I do read a lot of your posts and do see humor in them. This whole abandonment thing is a sensitive issue in our house, and I take it seriously. I KNOW you were speaking hypothetically, but I wasn't. I do have to explain the one child policy and the boy preference to her.

Yes, I know everyone passes judgment all day every day, including me. But for those of you who passed it on Chinese who abandon girls, I was just trying to help you understand their side. I'm not trying to justify it, believe me.

Gees, I am so not getting work done.....

[sparky]

actually I could use some Xanax, but it's not because of this conversation. It's because of the pile of work on my desk I still have to do before I go away for a few days.

I need a xanax myself. My insomnia is killing me.

I apologize for misinterpreting your tone. And you're right. I do read a lot of your posts and do see humor in them. This whole abandonment thing is a sensitive issue in our house, and I take it seriously. I KNOW you were speaking hypothetically, but I wasn't. I do have to explain the one child policy and the boy preference to her.

Oh, I need no apology. That was a fun and enlightening exchange for the both of us. And you have a tough row to hoe with that whole thing.

Yes, I know everyone passes judgment all day every day, including me. But for those of you who passed it on Chinese who abandon girls, I was just trying to help you understand their side. I'm not trying to justify it, believe me.

AMber, my sistah, said it much better than I could. I knew all that stuff, but you probably educated a number of people who don't.

Gees, I am so not getting work done.....

Work is so overrated. Have a cocktail and relax.
No one ever died and wished they had worked later.

:blob2:

[Violet]

Nevertheless, she lives here. I'm Italian, but I don't think what Mussolini did was awesome, nor do I think people should excuse it within a cultural context. They can understand it that way, but excusing it, no.


No, I wasn't. Oh, wait, yes, I passed judgement on some of their culture, the part that beats 50,000 dogs, doesn't care about the environment, and has slave labor. However, I did say I wasn't judging every Chinese person. I don't care how fast the smaller communities change, the customs may still piss me off.


Logically, your argument (saying your daughter was Chinese) pointed to you thinking I was talking about your daughter, or that somehow your daughter was related to your argument. If you know none of us were pissed of about your daughter, why bring her into it? Doesn't make sense to me. Also, I hope when your daughter gets older, China will piss her off, too.
I'm actually pretty aware about how many, many chinese people live. Just for your info.

I wish China pissed off our gov't not to trade with them. I wish China pissed everyone off enough to effect change in China.

I think that we have enough information about China to within reason say they don't give a **** about their people.

Also, I think a lot of us probably do understand China, why it is like it is, and are passing judgement anyway - so for you to say "at least I try to understand without passing judgement" seems odd. I can understand lots and lots about China and it will still piss me off. Again, without me judging that every individual Chinese person is bad.

I understand why people molest children, it doesn't make me sympathetic enough to say child molesters don't piss me off.


When people are judgemental and pissed off, sometimes that's where the most beneficial change comes.
JMO. Sorry if you are offended, I really am, and you know I like and respect you, but my opinion aobut this won't change in the near future.

Okay...I never meant to imply any of you were talking about my daughter. I brought her up originally so you would understand why I know about the one-child policy and some of the customs. But while we're talking about her...yes, she does live her, but not really by her choice. We took her at 9 months out of her birth country, so we owe it to her to educate her about her heritage, the good and the bad. I don't think I ever said I excuse any particular custom...just that I try to understand things from their side. And yes, those customs may piss you off, and that's fine. They piss me off, too.

Realistically I guess you can say that in some way every country doesn't give a **** about their people. I guess it's the blanket statement that bothers me. And again, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. Trust me, I'm not that confrontational. :o And I don't want you to change your opinion. Just trying, again, to help you understand why things aren't changing as quickly as we'd like. God, I sure hope it didn't sound like I was for some of these things.

And I hope that people don't think that all these babies are tossed aside like tomorrow's garbage. Most are left where they WILL be found. I've heard (can't remember from where or how it's known) that sometimes birthmothers/birthfathers or whoever leaves the baby will hide someplace to make sure the baby is found. Many times notes are left with the babies. I've also heard of babies being killed and that sickens me. Part of the paperwork in Chinese adoptions includes and "abandonment certificate," that lists the finding place and when a baby is left with a note and swaddled in blankets in a busy market, I have to believe that the person who left the baby believed they were doing the best they could for that child.

I'm rambling now because I'm tired and need to go to bed.

Carol

[irishgrl]

If this type of abandonment is rampant in China, you'd think--given their one child policy--that they would be more diligent about birth control. :distress:

[skcin]

Hey, of course China pisses people off. Pisses me off sometimes, too. That's great, but you're making blanket statements about China not giving a **** about its people, etc. (Yes, I know it wasn't you, Amber, who said that exact quote)


No, that was me. :wavey: It was a blanket statement referring to the communist government in China, but it's just my opinion. I didn't say "Chinese people are assh*les", I just expressed my feeling that their government does not care about them, and I stand by that comment based on what I've seen, heard & learned. You're right, I've never been there - but since you have, can you honestly say that the Chinese government takes great care of its people? If so, fine. We don't have to agree.

I appreciate the information you've given us, and I'm sorry if you were upset by my comment. But it was in no way directed at your daughter, or the Chinese people as a whole. I work with a very large international student population, and many of them are from China. The Chinese students that I have met & worked with are kind, intelligent, lovely people. But a communist government is another story.

[bretonbanquet]

This story doesn't surprise me one bit. I'll file it with the story I read of thousands of racehorses being killed when some people decided horse racing wasn't making enough money, and the videos I saw of cats and dogs being skinned alive for their fur - and there was sound on those videos.

I reserve the right to pass judgement on people who brutalise animals, and all the stories I hear like this one come from China. I do not tar all Chinese people with the same brush, but it pi**es me off that an alarmingly high proportion of people in that country still feel that this kind of behaviour is acceptable. When I think how the world's population needs to be reduced by a significant amount, I usually conclude that we should start with people who think this kind of thing is OK.

Let's do something about it! No wait, let's give them the Olympics instead - that'll make them realise that we have issues with the way they do things... :mad:

I'd also add that it has nothing to do with communism - European communist countries never did this kind of thing. The babies policy - maybe, but not the animals. That is an Asian thing.

[SteveMacD]

The Chinese government has a policy that the world knows has lead to the deaths of thousands of baby girls, and somehow we're the assholes for commenting on it?

Now, I've actually been to China, and I love a lot of things about the Chinese culture. But it certainly has its faults, too, and cruelty to people and animals certainly ranks high on that list. EVERY culture has its faults. My last name is MacDougall, yet I wouldn't go within a hundred feet of most traditional Scottish food.

[DavidMn]

Good lord, that wasnt necessary!:(

[irishgrl]

Haggis anyone?:D

[DavidMn]

Haggis anyone?:DI think I know what those are, but I'm afraid to say...:laugh:

[irishgrl]

I think I know what those are, but I'm afraid to say...:laugh:

sheep stomach stuffed with meat and barley. (straight from the Highlander! :laugh: )

[DavidMn]

sheep stomach stuffed with meat and barley. (straight from the Highlander! :laugh: )I thought so. I take it youve eaten it?

[irishgrl]

I thought so. I take it youve eaten it?

Hey, Im IRISH!!!!! (actually Im Scott too, but keep that on the down low :laugh: )

[Miss Vicky]

Chinese Start Another Mass Dog Slaughter
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN, Associated Press Writer
Fri Aug 4, 2:13 AM

SHANGHAI, China - A second Chinese city planned a mass dog slaughter to contain a rabies outbreak, state media said Friday, days after similar massacre in another province drew outrage.

Officials in the eastern city of Jining said Thursday they would kill all dogs within three miles of areas where rabies was found, the official Xinhua News Agency said.

The measure came in response to the deaths of 16 people from rabies in Jining in the last eight months, Xinhua said. It didn't say how many dogs would be killed, but said the city had about 500,000.

Rabies cases are on the rise in China, with more than 2,000 people dying from the disease each year. Only 3 percent of the country's dogs are vaccinated against rabies.

Last week, a county in southwestern Yunnan province killed 50,000 dogs after three people died of rabies. The massacre provoked unusually pointed criticism in state media, while the activist group People For the Ethical Treatment of Animals called for a boycott of Chinese products.

Other slaughters have been reported elsewhere in China this year, although the government says it has no standard policy of destroying dogs.

"I think this is completely insane," Zhang Luping, founder of the Beijing Human and Animal Environmental Education Center, said Friday in response to Jining's announcement.

"What's more, this really damages our national image and sets a really bad example to show how lazy and inconsiderate those local government officials are," Zhang said.

Zhang said there were no laws under which citizens could stop the killings, but said she and other animal protection activists were reaching out through the media to try to change policy.

"I think this brutal and cold-blooded campaign should stop as soon as possible," Zhang said.

People answering phones at Jining's city government and epidemic control center refused to comment or said they weren't authorized to release information to media.

The World Health Organization has not directly criticized the slaughters, but WHO experts have said they underscore a lack of coordination and other problems with China's health care system.

The killings have prompted widespread commentary in state media and online forums, with opinions strong divided.

Rabies attacks the nervous system. In humans, it normally results in death within a week after symptoms develop.

[skcin]

"I think this is completely insane," Zhang Luping, founder of the Beijing Human and Animal Environmental Education Center, said Friday in response to Jining's announcement.

"What's more, this really damages our national image and sets a really bad example to show how lazy and inconsiderate those local government officials are," Zhang said.

Zhang said there were no laws under which citizens could stop the killings, but said she and other animal protection activists were reaching out through the media to try to change policy.

"I think this brutal and cold-blooded campaign should stop as soon as possible," Zhang said.

People answering phones at Jining's city government and epidemic control center refused to comment or said they weren't authorized to release information to media.

Seems to support my blanket statement, IMO.

[David]

I'm a bit offended by the tone of this thread. I'm not talking about the original subject. I didn't read the article about the dogs, and of course I don't agree with the whole killing 50,000 dogs, but the rest of the China bashing.

As some of you know, my daughter is Chinese, and I am quite familiar with their one child policy and have dealt with several governmental agencies in person in China who most definitely "give a **** about their people."

You know, I don't get involved in the political discussions on the Ledge, because when you're bashing the President or the US, you guys live here. But you don't live in China and you're passing judgment on China as a whole, and that sucks.

Carol, I'm afraid I can't apologize for my dislike of China in general. This has nothing to do with your daughter or any Chinese on an individual basis. But I won't retract my disgust with China just because I don't live there. You know the old saying that you don't have to be able to lay an egg to know it's rotten? I am not of the mind that I have to walk that mile in someone else's shoes in order to criticize, etc. I criticize governments & policies all over the world on a regular basis--even my own, of course. When I think of China, I think of a situation that resembles Mexico & much of Latin America: squalidness & poverty that the state perpetuates decade after decade through shortsightedness, corruption, tyranny & superstition.