Aren't We Being A Little Hard On The Band?

[Lala]

Hi all,

I've been reading all of threads regarding disapointment over lack of new/remastered material. I understand you're all frustrated, trust me I am too. But aren't we being a little hard on these guys? There have been some more personal attacks on band members, calling them "idiots", etc. And it made me stop and think, aren't we all here because we love this band?

Sure, I'm disapointed over the lack of insight between management and the band in terms to releasing more matterial. But, I love this band. I love this band because they have touched me musically. I love this band because their words and music have helped me through some hard times. I love this band because, when I'm having a bad day, I can throw on one of their albums, crank it, and feel a little better.

I'm sure some of you have similar feelings.

I guess my point is, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I've certainly been guilty of saying things on this board that I wouldn't dare say to a band member's face. But, should we be a little more careful in posting as if they were reading? I just feel like, if Stevie on a whim checked out the board, and caught her fans calling her an idiot, she'd be less motivated to push for anything of hers to be remastered.

I don't know. Maybe I'm totally off base and shouldn't have posted this. Keep in mind I'm hopped up on cold medicine and kind of bored.

I :xoxo: Fleetwood Mac. I am grateful for what has been released, and will be grateful for whatever else is.

[amber]

We're hardest on those we love, and become more angry than with someone we didn't care about when they don't live up to their potential.
I, personally, am not mad, but I see other people's points.

[foxyluva]

I agree - but I do see other peoples points. But calling them idiots is ridiculous :shrug:

[SortaSavageLike]

They have failed us. And therefore... they must DIE! :mad:

[Nixxxed]

You're probably right - a calmer tone might be nice. But on the other hand, it's Fleetwood Mac we're talking about. I don't think civility and rational discussion is even in their (collective) vocabulary, is it? It's only fitting that it should be the same for those who idolize them.

:laugh:

;) (My attempt at humor to lighten the mood. Now back to the fray...)

[seeker007nmss]

You're probably right - a calmer tone might be nice. But on the other hand, it's Fleetwood Mac we're talking about. I don't think civility and rational discussion is even in their (collective) vocabulary, is it? It's only fitting that it should be the same for those who idolize them.

:laugh:

;) (My attempt at humor to lighten the mood. Now back to the fray...)



And now a Kitten break......

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/Oneida20Kittens20001.jpg

[Lala]

And now a Kitten break......

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/Oneida20Kittens20001.jpg

Awww! I want one!

[BTFLCHLD]

http://i1.tinypic.com/wvpkj8.gif

[Jyqm]

Hi all,

I've been reading all of threads regarding disapointment over lack of new/remastered material. I understand you're all frustrated, trust me I am too. But aren't we being a little hard on these guys? There have been some more personal attacks on band members, calling them "idiots", etc. And it made me stop and think, aren't we all here because we love this band?

Sure, I'm disapointed over the lack of insight between management and the band in terms to releasing more matterial. But, I love this band. I love this band because they have touched me musically. I love this band because their words and music have helped me through some hard times. I love this band because, when I'm having a bad day, I can throw on one of their albums, crank it, and feel a little better.

I'm sure some of you have similar feelings.

I guess my point is, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I've certainly been guilty of saying things on this board that I wouldn't dare say to a band member's face. But, should we be a little more careful in posting as if they were reading? I just feel like, if Stevie on a whim checked out the board, and caught her fans calling her an idiot, she'd be less motivated to push for anything of hers to be remastered.

I don't know. Maybe I'm totally off base and shouldn't have posted this. Keep in mind I'm hopped up on cold medicine and kind of bored.

I :xoxo: Fleetwood Mac. I am grateful for what has been released, and will be grateful for whatever else is.

I've never understood the attitude of "I like this band, so I won't complain about anything they ever do." Do people carry this over into other aspects of their artistic lives? "Dallas has always been such a great show and given us so many memories, you shouldn't complain that last season was all just a dream!"

People have a right to be disappointed and upset about Fleetwood Mac's idiotic business decisions, and to express that disappointment and frustration here. That's half the point of a fan forum. And the last thing we ought to be doing is censoring ourselves out of fear that someone from the band might be reading. I can't even imagine how boring this place would become.

As far as catching more flies with honey than vinegar, like most truisms, that's not always true. But again, this is just people expressing their frustration on a fan forum. Nobody's trying to catch any flies with their posts here. If anyone decides to submit this kind of question to John or anyone else, I'm sure it will be phrased much more nicely. (And if nobody's come up with a re-write yet, Lis, I'll gladly take a stab at it.)

[Mageboy25]

Oh fuuck the damn idiots ;). I want the FULL DAMN Mirage, Tusk, Tango, and I know they filmed BTM, concerts all on DVD!

[Sahara]

Hi all,

I've been reading all of threads regarding disapointment over lack of new/remastered material. I understand you're all frustrated, trust me I am too. But aren't we being a little hard on these guys? There have been some more personal attacks on band members, calling them "idiots", etc. And it made me stop and think, aren't we all here because we love this band?

Sure, I'm disapointed over the lack of insight between management and the band in terms to releasing more matterial. But, I love this band. I love this band because they have touched me musically. I love this band because their words and music have helped me through some hard times. I love this band because, when I'm having a bad day, I can throw on one of their albums, crank it, and feel a little better.

I'm sure some of you have similar feelings.

I guess my point is, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I've certainly been guilty of saying things on this board that I wouldn't dare say to a band member's face. But, should we be a little more careful in posting as if they were reading? I just feel like, if Stevie on a whim checked out the board, and caught her fans calling her an idiot, she'd be less motivated to push for anything of hers to be remastered.

I don't know. Maybe I'm totally off base and shouldn't have posted this. Keep in mind I'm hopped up on cold medicine and kind of bored.

I :xoxo: Fleetwood Mac. I am grateful for what has been released, and will be grateful for whatever else is.

I agree -- but I'm still a little disappointed! I guess I'm mad at what's happening, but we don't really know who's responsible -- be it the band or management or whoever.

Obviously the Mac are still awesome and will always be awesome. If only we had some new insight into the awesomeness.

Thank you for being the voice of reason here and reminding us what the real issues are.

Now come on. Let's have some more kittens. :blob2:

PS: Calling anyone an idiot is just plain rude. :distress:

[Jyqm]

I agree -- but I'm still a little disappointed! I guess I'm mad at what's happening, but we don't really know who's responsible -- be it the band or management or whoever.

It's all of them. You can't blame solely the band, because hardly any bands take it upon themselves to organize these types of releases. Nor can you blame solely the management and other personal bureaucrats, because these people were hired by the members of the band. They've all surrounded themselves with this fortress of completely worthless bureaucracy that does far more to hinder this band from doing anything worthwhile than it does to help. And we can also blame Warner/Reprise for not pushing for more of these projects, for whatever reason. There's plenty of blame to go around for everyone.

[BTFLCHLD]

People have a right to be disappointed and upset about Fleetwood Mac's idiotic business decisions, and to express that disappointment and frustration here. That's half the point of a fan forum. And the last thing we ought to be doing is censoring ourselves out of fear that someone from the band might be reading. I can't even imagine how boring this place would become.
is anyone stopping you? censoring you?
lala has that same 'right' to express her
disappointment at the disappointment :rolleyes:

[Jyqm]

is anyone stopping you? censoring you?

Did I say that anyone was?

lala has that same 'right' to express her
disappointment at the disappointment :rolleyes:

Did I say that she didn't? I certainly didn't mean to imply it.

[BTFLCHLD]

I certainly didn't mean to imply it.
good :cool:

[Sahara]

It's all of them. You can't blame solely the band, because hardly any bands take it upon themselves to organize these types of releases. Nor can you blame solely the management and other personal bureaucrats, because these people were hired by the members of the band. They've all surrounded themselves with this fortress of completely worthless bureaucracy that does far more to hinder this band from doing anything worthwhile than it does to help. And we can also blame Warner/Reprise for not pushing for more of these projects, for whatever reason. There's plenty of blame to go around for everyone.

Point cheerfully taken on board. :)

[strandinthewind]

I think it is wildly incorrect to suggest or imply that a band that has sold tens of millions of records (not so much lately but that is IMO mostly due to their age) and, more recently, made tens of million of dollars in concert and merch. revenue is poorly managed :shrug: Moreover, the remastered FMFM, Rumors, and Tusk records did not exactly fly off of the shelves and most of the hits from the remaining records were, I think, remastered on the VBOFM.

So, yes, I would love to see the rest of the records remastered, concert footage released, etc., but I get that there will be no significant money in it, etc.

I also think the band is hesitant to release any concert footage from BTM because that era was not stellar for them and its time has passed.

In the end, I get that this is a business and decisions are made accordingly.

Having said that, I think it is assinine that the individual members do not release little tidbits of live performaces and other footage for free on their websites. I mean out of sight . . . . .

[chiliD]

I've been reading all of threads regarding disapointment over lack of new/remastered material. I understand you're all frustrated, trust me I am too. But aren't we being a little hard on these guys?

In a word...NO!!

There have been some more personal attacks on band members, calling them "idiots", etc.

"Idiot is as idiot does"

And it made me stop and think, aren't we all here because we love this band?

I love my family, too, but I call them idiots quite often as well.

[Richard B]

I also think the band is hesitant to release any concert footage from BTM because that era was not stellar for them and its time has passed.
But it was okay to release the TITN video?

[Richard B]

I love my family, too, but I call them idiots quite often as well.
I'm sure it's mutual.

Don't worry everyone, I'm sure the band has called their fans idiots from time to time.

[chiliD]

I'm sure it's mutual.

Don't worry everyone, I'm sure the band has called their fans idiots from time to time.


And deservedly so.

[Jyqm]

Moreover, the remastered FMFM, Rumors, and Tusk records did not exactly fly off of the shelves

Of course they didn't, and I certainly hope nobody thought that they would. These types of projects aren't released with the expectation that they'll be notching huge sales as soon as they're released...

So, yes, I would love to see the rest of the records remastered, concert footage released, etc., but I get that there will be no significant money in it, etc.

...however there is significant money to be made with these types of releases. These are catalogue releases. The point isn't that they're going to rocket to the top of the charts, but that they will slowly and steadily be bought both by die-hard fans looking to upgrade their older copies of albums and by newcomers who have yet to discover the band. They're quick and easy projects to assemble and put on the shelves, and they'll sell modestly but steadily for years to come.

In the end, I get that this is a business and decisions are made accordingly.

As does everybody else. But what nobody understands is why so many other artists, who have much smaller followings than Fleetwood Mac, and who likely never will sell as many records as Fleetwood Mac, apparently think it's a good business decision to release remastered albums and concert DVDs and whatever else, while Fleetwood Mac doesn't. Either all of these other bands are idiots who are losing money, or Fleetwood Mac is. I'm not inclined to give the Fleetwood Mac organization the benefit of the doubt here.

[strandinthewind]

But it was okay to release the TITN video?

FM was still very popular at that time and that popularity (along with the brilliant music) made TITN sell several million copies in the US alone and the tour sold fairly if not mostly well despite the absence of LB - that is why that video got made. Conversely, BTM sold, I think, less than 1,000,000 in the US and the tour was not that successful. So, I think concluding there would be little interest 16 years later in that less popular time for the band is mostly correct.

As an aside, I wonder if not paying Billy, Rick, and I guess CM any royalties they may be due has anything to do with it. I am just speculating here though.

[strandinthewind]

. . . As does everybody else. But what nobody understands is why so many other artists, who have much smaller followings than Fleetwood Mac, and who likely never will sell as many records as Fleetwood Mac, apparently think it's a good business decision to release remastered albums and concert DVDs and whatever else, while Fleetwood Mac doesn't. Either all of these other bands are idiots who are losing money, or Fleetwood Mac is. I'm not inclined to give the Fleetwood Mac organization the benefit of the doubt here.

But, the point I think you are missing is FM has released the cat. stuff and did so fairly recently and that release was a reprise of the boxed set in the early 90's and the GH in 89(?) - Then, they released the VBOFM, which contained new remasters. So, they are doing the cat., thing. I also think their method is fairly smart in the the Greatest Hits is and was a huge selling production and the VBOFM sold way more than the FMFM, Rumors, and Tust remasters did combined (I think - my memory fades :laugh: ) -- So, though I would like the 80's stuff remastered, I think the band and their management are being financially clever in their decisions and the sales of the GH stuff supports me on that.

Interestingly, FM also sells its concert DVD's and has done so since Tusk, with the exception of the BTM era.

[Richard B]

FM was still very popular at that time and that popularity (along with the brilliant music) made TITN sell several million copies in the US alone and the tour sold fairly if not mostly well despite the absence of LB - that is why that video got made. Conversely, BTM sold, I think, less than 1,000,000 in the US and the tour was not that successful. So, I think concluding there would be little interest 16 years later in that less popular time for the band is mostly correct.

As an aside, I wonder is not paying Billy, Rick, and I guess CM any royalties they may be due has anything to do with it. I am just speculating here though.
I must apologize for not making myself more clear. I was speaking of the recently released TITN DVD. When they released this video DVD, the band was already back together, meaning Lindsey returned.

Why this release was allowed at the time and not, oh say the HBO FM in Concert (Mirage Tour) instead is beyond me.

[strandinthewind]

I must apologize for not making myself more clear. I was speaking of the recently released TITN DVD. When they released this video DVD, the band was already back together, meaning Lindsey returned.

Why this release was allowed at the time and not, oh say the HBO FM in Concert (Mirage Tour) instead is beyond me.

I do not know. It could be because other than, I think, the GH package, TITN was the second best selling FM record.

As an aside, I also think it could be because the TITN DVD is more time relevant and is very slick in its production, which the Mirage Tour is not and can be painful to watch at times due to the drugs, the off key singing, etc. - though I love it mind you.

Interestingly, La Nicks remastered or at least released the Red Rocks DVD and not the Bella Donna era concert, which was seemingly a much more popular time for her.

[Nixxxed]

Interestingly, La Nicks remastered or at least released the Red Rocks DVD and not the Bella Donna era concert, which was seemingly a much more popular time for her.

I've always wondered if this has something to do with HBO. Red Rocks was broadcast on Showtime. Are there other bands whose early '80s HBO specials were released? Come to think of it, I've never noticed any. :shrug:

[Richard B]

I do not know. It could be because other than, I think, the GH package, TITN was the second best selling FM record.

As an aside, I also think it could be because the TITN DVD is more time relevant and is very slick in its production, which the Mirage Tour is not and can be painful to watch at times due to the drugs, the off key singing, etc. - though I love it mind you.

Interestingly, La Nicks remastered or at least released the Red Rocks DVD and not the Bella Donna era concert, which was seemingly a much more popular time for her.
All Greatest Hits album sell well regardless of the artist. Consumers eat that **** up.

I think it was a very poor decision to release the TITN DVD after the release of The Dance. It does not depict the current band as it is. Also, WB owns the rights to the TITN video, making it all too easy to pop it onto the consumer market. Also Mick probably wanted to give a nod to this incarantion of FM and throw a dig at Lindsey.

When the HBO concert was aired, it received very high ratings and FM was already all over a young MTV with the Hold Me and Gypsy videos. I have no idea who owns the rights to the HBO show any more. When the video for it was on the market, it was CBS/Fox as well as the Stevie Nicks in Concert video.

Which brings us to the Rock-A-Little video. Also probably easier to put on the market. Why would Stevie prefer this show to be out there for consumers over her much more critically acclaimed prior video? Again, I think it comes down to licensing rights. I don't think Stevie or FM own the rights to the aforementioned CBS/Fox videos.

[strandinthewind]

^^^^

I wonder how we find out about the rights to these.

I know La Nicks sold part of her rights to a bunch of her older stuff, and that Michael Jackson owns them. I sure would love it if someone could break down who owns what. I think someone did awhile back though.

[Richard B]

^^^^

I wonder how we find out about the rights to these.

I know La Nicks sold part of her rights to a bunch of her older stuff, and that Michael Jackson owns them. I sure would love it if someone could break down who owns what. I think someone did awhile back though.
It gets tricky. The video rights and the song rights contained in the video could very well be owned by different entities.

[Jyqm]

But, the point I think you are missing is FM has released the cat. stuff and did so fairly recently

This is true, and I don't anybody is saying that the band has done absolutely nothing, merely that the three recent reissues should only be the first phase of a more comprehensive project and not the only re-releases we ever get.

So, though I would like the 80's stuff remastered, I think the band and their management are being financially clever in their decisions and the sales of the GH stuff supports me on that.

But you just said in another post that Tango was the band's best-selling album after Rumours. By your logic, they should have re-issued that instead of Tusk.

And again, you can't look at the sales of these packages over the first two years of their existence and claim that they're not worth it or aren't making enough money. These things are going to be selling modest numbers for years.

That aside, the music business is more than just a business - it's also art, and often art that makes a very strong connection with the people who buy it. And while decisions are more often than not going to come down to questions of profit, there's also the issue of giving die-hard fans what they want, showing that on some level you care about and respect the people that have supported your career the most, by releasing things that they're going to want and be happy with. There are scores of artists who do this, to varying degrees, including many who have bothered to upgrade their entire catalogues. For Fleetwood Mac, the FM/Rumours/Tusk reissues were a good start. But to stop there would be a missed opportunity, a great disservice to the rest of the band's catalogue, and an expression of indifference or worse toward their most dedicated fans.

[strandinthewind]

^^^

I agree that FM and La Nicks (LB and CM will never do it nor will Welch, Green, etc. ) should release little tidbits on their websites. I think many would go to nicksfix.com if there were new concert or other footage (like the making if WH) put up on a weekly basis. But, they will never do this and I cannot understand why because it would be so relatively inexpensive to do.

[David]

But it was okay to release the TITN video?I betcha no actual member of the band is even aware of that DVD release. I betcha if you asked any one of them about that, you'd get a "huh?" I betcha Lindsey doesn't even know there was a VHS tape of a 1987 show. If you asked him about THAT, he'd answer "huh? whuh?"

The band doesn't know what kind of fleetwood mac **** hits the shelves ... unless it's something A) big (like Say You Will) or B ) that required the band's involvement (like the Rumours 5.1). Stevie only talked about the 5.1 thing on Rosie & everywhere else because ken caillat made her go into an actual room & LISTEN to it. Otherwise, she would never have known about it, let alone talked about it.

[David]

But you just said in another post that Tango was the band's best-selling album after Rumours. By your logic, they should have re-issued that instead of Tusk. yabbut jyqm it doesn't necessarily matter what it sold back then that would make the decision. It's what it might sell today that would do so. Debbbbbbie boone's you light up my life sold a ****load in 1977, but would anyone buy a remastered copy of it today?
And again, you can't look at the sales of these packages over the first two years of their existence and claim that they're not worth it or aren't making enough money. These things are going to be selling modest numbers for years.so how much DID those reissues sell? they were reasonably priced.
That aside, the music business is more than just a business - it's also art, and often art that makes a very strong connection with the people who buy it. And while decisions are more often than not going to come down to questions of profit, there's also the issue of giving die-hard fans what they want, showing that on some level you care about and respect the people that have supported your career the most, by releasing things that they're going to want and be happy with. There are scores of artists who do this, to varying degrees, including many who have bothered to upgrade their entire catalogues. For Fleetwood Mac, the FM/Rumours/Tusk reissues were a good start. But to stop there would be a missed opportunity, a great disservice to the rest of the band's catalogue, and an expression of indifference or worse toward their most dedicated fans.but from fleetwood mac's perspective, they don't have "diehard fans"; they have an "audience." mick doesn't distinguish between diehard fans & every last joe & jane who go see an fm concert just to party for the evening. fans are so solipsistic. they truly believe they are recognized & loved by their idols.

[David]

I'm sure it's mutual.

Don't worry everyone, I'm sure the band has called their fans idiots from time to time.you & chili bringing a breath of sanity to this particular topic of "if you love them why do you rag on them?" lunacy (which must have psychological underpinnings).

[chiliD]

Debbbbbbie boone's you light up my life sold a ****load in 1977, but would anyone buy a remastered copy of it today?

Add outtakes, live cuts & bonus tracks, you betcha!! :lol:

[David]

As an aside, I also think it could be because the TITN DVD is more time relevant and is very slick in its production, which the Mirage Tour is not and can be painful to watch at times due to the drugs, the off key singing, etc. - though I love it mind you.why "painful"? Believe me, strandista, the **** the kids are listening to today makes the fleetwood macsters of long ago look like Barney.

Drugs? offkey singing? you should go to this summer's ozzfest to see bands in action like snot, slipknot, system of a down, etc.

come on, pal, put it into some perspective

[David]

Add outtakes, live cuts & bonus tracks, you betcha!! :lol:folks, steve & I used to hang out in Guitar Center & steve would go into the guitar room & he's sing You Light Up My Life in full-throated voice mezzoforte, & I'd try to sing along & we bothed just loved that song!!

[chiliD]

folks, steve & I used to hang out in Guitar Center & steve would go into the guitar room & he's sing You Light Up My Life in full-throated voice mezzoforte, & I'd try to sing along & we bothed just loved that song!!

The best parts were the Peter Green/Eric Clapton-esque guitar fills between the lines of the verses. Even squeezed an "I'm So Afraid"-like solo in there. :thumbsup:

Good times. :]

[Jyqm]

so how much DID those reissues sell? they were reasonably priced.

I don't know what the tallies are so far, but the question is how much will they continue to sell. These are long-term investments.

but from fleetwood mac's perspective, they don't have "diehard fans"; they have an "audience." mick doesn't distinguish between diehard fans & every last joe & jane who go see an fm concert just to party for the evening. fans are so solipsistic. they truly believe they are recognized & loved by their idols.

All too true from Fleetwood Mac's perspective, but there are plenty of artists out there who do care about their long-time and die-hard fans and go out of their way to do good things for them. And not even because they're all just super-nice, altruistic people. It's also good business sense. Keep your repeat customers happy and excited to buy more products.

[strandinthewind]

why "painful"? Believe me, strandista, the **** the kids are listening to today makes the fleetwood macsters of long ago look like Barney.

Drugs? offkey singing? you should go to this summer's ozzfest to see bands in action like snot, slipknot, system of a down, etc.

come on, pal, put it into some perspective

LOL - I knew I was gonna get shiitte for that comment :laugh:

I agree with you that the Mirage concert is wildly better than the TITN one. I am just noting that in today's market, slick production is where it is and the Mirage take is far from that. That is why or part of why I think TITN got released instead of the Mirage one, if there was indeed a choice between the two.

To be clear, I am talking about the largest market, which is the average buyer - not people who appreciate music, etc.

As for the off key/drugs comment. They were off key a bunch both musically and vocally and LB is smoking what appears to be a joint on stage, CM has wine, and La Nicks' eyes are only somewhat open at times and she is on another planet during SOTM (and gloriously so I might add) - so, they are all out there during the set. Is that tamer than today or even then with the likes of Van Halen - who can say. I just note FM was.

[strandinthewind]

folks, steve & I used to hang out in Guitar Center & steve would go into the guitar room & he's sing You Light Up My Life in full-throated voice mezzoforte, & I'd try to sing along & we bothed just loved that song!!

I still love that song - and I say so proudly :cool:

[strandinthewind]

. . . All too true from Fleetwood Mac's perspective, but there are plenty of artists out there who do care about their long-time and die-hard fans and go out of their way to do good things for them. And not even because they're all just super-nice, altruistic people. It's also good business sense. Keep your repeat customers happy and excited to buy more products.

But, that goes back to my point of I think their management and to a significant degree them (certainly La Nicks as she openly discussed all cat. releases and says what stuff - like the Rumors tribute CD - she had no part in) think they are meeting that need with the FMFM, Rumors,and Tusk remastered releases with extra stuff and the remastered VBOFM. I think they think that is enough to meet whatever demand is out there. Also, the release of these around the time of SYW was intentional in that both helped market each other.

[David]

I agree with you that the Mirage concert is wildly better than the TITN one. I am just noting that in today's market, slick production is where it is and the Mirage take is far from that.yes the mireage concert is definitely low-tech: shot on video rather than film, low-tech camera work, patchwork edits----it's like a student film. But that's what makes it so successful at giving the viewer the impression of the shows themselves.
As for the off key/drugs comment. They were off key a bunch both musically and vocally I don't think they were off key musically. What do you mean? they were playing off key?

[strandinthewind]

. . . I don't think they were off key musically. What do you mean? they were playing off key?

It sounds like LB is off key at times. I cannot think of an example now though.

In the end, I like the Mirage video way more than the TITN one. Though, I must say watching the Mirage one is a little sad because, to me, they had only some of the charisma that they had in the Tusk one.

[skcin]

But what nobody understands is why so many other artists, who have much smaller followings than Fleetwood Mac, and who likely never will sell as many records as Fleetwood Mac, apparently think it's a good business decision to release remastered albums and concert DVDs and whatever else, while Fleetwood Mac doesn't. Either all of these other bands are idiots who are losing money, or Fleetwood Mac is. I'm not inclined to give the Fleetwood Mac organization the benefit of the doubt here.

YES! That's what bugs me. Brian J. would be more knowledgable (sp - duh) than me about what's new with older metal bands, but I know for a fact that many of them are currently putting out DVDs of live shows & videos as well as remastering their old material - honestly, how many copies will Helloween sell? How about Cinderella? One would assume that Mac would be able to sell many more.

LIB is pretty cool, but what really pissed me off was that besides the new tunes, it's almost the same as The Dance. The casual fan will look at the tracks, think "what the hell is Say Goodbye? I've already see the rest of this ****" and put it back on the shelf. There's your less than stellar sales - put out the same material over & over and people won't care.

I'm a casual fan of Cyndi Lauper & I have a Cyndi Lauper DVD - if she puts out another one in 7 years but it's mostly the same songs, I ain't buyin'. One is plenty. Now, that being said, if she put out her older concerts onto DVD, I would definitely consider buying, esp. if there are different songs & bonus material.

People like to relive the past, look back fondly, reminisce. So why not release at least the stuff that was put out on VHS (Tusk Doc, Mirage concer, Stevie's WWD show.) It can't cost that much, plus we all know there's tons of extra crap to put on them - backstage footage, photo shoots, etc. WHY NOT?!?!

[strandinthewind]

. . . plus we all know there's tons of extra crap to put on them - backstage footage, photo shoots, etc. WHY NOT?!?!

That is my beef too. I mean when La Nicks did the Enchanted Boxed Set, I was expecting tons of new photos, etc. While there were lots of new phots and some handwritten liner notes, it seemingly was not enough. Maybe that is my problem though in that I always want more.

AND - they missed a hige opportunity with the assinine website they put up for the SYW tour. They had the backstage footage, etc., but, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, who the hell wants to see Mick play golf?

[DavidMn]

Hi all,

I've been reading all of threads regarding disapointment over lack of new/remastered material. I understand you're all frustrated, trust me I am too. But aren't we being a little hard on these guys? There have been some more personal attacks on band members, calling them "idiots", etc. And it made me stop and think, aren't we all here because we love this band?

Sure, I'm disapointed over the lack of insight between management and the band in terms to releasing more matterial. But, I love this band. I love this band because they have touched me musically. I love this band because their words and music have helped me through some hard times. I love this band because, when I'm having a bad day, I can throw on one of their albums, crank it, and feel a little better.

I'm sure some of you have similar feelings.

I guess my point is, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I've certainly been guilty of saying things on this board that I wouldn't dare say to a band member's face. But, should we be a little more careful in posting as if they were reading? I just feel like, if Stevie on a whim checked out the board, and caught her fans calling her an idiot, she'd be less motivated to push for anything of hers to be remastered.

I don't know. Maybe I'm totally off base and shouldn't have posted this. Keep in mind I'm hopped up on cold medicine and kind of bored.

I :xoxo: Fleetwood Mac. I am grateful for what has been released, and will be grateful for whatever else is.Lala, I absolutely agree with you! I feel the same way. I'm just grateful for whatever comes out, especially since I had to wait over 20 years of being a fan before I was able to see them live, although I will say I dont like everything theyve released.

[seeker007nmss]

Now come on. Let's have some more kittens. :blob2:





Did someone say kittens?

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/orangekitten.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/Dreamtimezzz/Kitten20on20Mouse.jpg

[DavidMn]

In a word...NO!!



"Idiot is as idiot does"



I love my family, too, but I call them idiots quite often as well.Steve, where would we be without you to keep things honest. :thumbsup:

[Jyqm]

YES! That's what bugs me. Brian J. would be more knowledgable (sp - duh) than me about what's new with older metal bands, but I know for a fact that many of them are currently putting out DVDs of live shows & videos as well as remastering their old material - honestly, how many copies will Helloween sell? How about Cinderella? One would assume that Mac would be able to sell many more.

Absolutely. My stand-by example is always Elvis Costello. Rhino Records just completed a four-year project of reissuing all of his albums from 1977 to 1996. That's seventeen albums! I believe each one was remastered, but the real selling point was that each reissue had the original album on one disc, plus one disc of bonus material (demos, outtakes, collaborations, one-offs, live tracks, all kinds of stuff). They're not all that dissimilar from the Rumours and Tusk reissues, the main difference being that every one of EC's reissues was priced like a single CD at $17.99 or $18.99, as opposed to $22.99 or whatever the Mac reissues cost.

Now, only one of EC's albums (My Aim Is True) has ever gone platinum, and three others (This Year's Model, Armed Forces and Spike) have gone gold. Yet Rhino thought it was worthwhile to spend four years assembling these really nice packages for all seventeen of his albums, and then release them at a relatively bargain price. So nobody's convincing me that Mac reissues are finanically undesirable.

And presumably Rhino could have done the same with Fleetwood Mac, but somehow Warner jumped in and grabbed back the project, and now look where we are.

It can't cost that much, plus we all know there's tons of extra crap to put on them - backstage footage, photo shoots, etc. WHY NOT?!?!

No, it would cost next to nothing, actually. Even if they took the time to add bonus footage and stuff, the costs would still be minimal.

[strandinthewind]

. . . No, it would cost next to nothing, actually. Even if they took the time to add bonus footage and stuff, the costs would still be minimal.

This brings me to my earlier point, which was do you think they think the stuff they released is enough to satisfy that? I mean they have released backstage footage, rare stuff, demos, etc. I think they think they have done what we are saying they do not do?

[Johnny Stew]

you & chili bringing a breath of sanity to this particular topic of "if you love them why do you rag on them?" lunacy (which must have psychological underpinnings).I think what it comes down to, is that some of the fans (most especially the younger ones) here get a lot of grief from those in their day-to-day lives, regarding their love for Fleetwood Mac/Stevie/etc., so they come here to express that appreciation in a safe-haven of like-minded individuals... only to sometimes find people seemingly saying even more disparaging things about the band, than what comes out of the mouths of their friends and family.

And while I agree that some people do take the complaining a tad too far (such as when a sense of entitlement creeps in), the thing that our younger brethren should try to realize, is that in the majority of cases the views expressed are merely those of devoted fans who can't help but see a lot of missed-opportunities, and to feel a little letdown when it seems that fans of other artists get thrown a bounty of new bones, while we're stuck with the same chewtoy we've had for years.
In those cases, the comments aren't made with disdain for the band, but for their decisions (or lack thereof).

It's like chili said... we loves our families, but there are still times when they frustrate us, too.

[Jyqm]

This brings me to my earlier point, which was do you think they think the stuff they released is enough to satisfy that? I mean they have released backstage footage, rare stuff, demos, etc. I think they think they have done what we are saying they do not do?

I think I responded to this in another post somewhere in this thread, but short answer: no, personally I don't think it's enough. The three reissues were a good start - they're nice packages, with relatively decent bonus material - but that's exactly what they ought to be: a start of a more expansive project which would involve giving similar treatment to all of the Reprise albums. (And for god's sake, where is Buckingham Nicks?)

[Johnny Stew]

(And for god's sake, where is Buckingham Nicks?)Here's a very interesting article on the remastered series, with a brief discussion of 'Buckingham Nicks.'

I'm sure most folks here have read it before, but it's interesting to revisit....

http://www.icemagazine.com/stories/204/fleetwoodmac.asp

[strandinthewind]

I think I responded to this in another post somewhere in this thread, but short answer: no, personally I don't think it's enough. The three reissues were a good start - they're nice packages, with relatively decent bonus material - but that's exactly what they ought to be: a start of a more expansive project which would involve giving similar treatment to all of the Reprise albums. (And for god's sake, where is Buckingham Nicks?)

I know you do not, but the question was and is do they think it is. Who can say for sure, but I think on some level they do think so. I think they are wrong mind you. Interestingly, I wonder if at some point they do not think, okay, no more dwelling on the past, I need to concentrate on the tour, new material, etc. I probably would, esp. if the reissues require any significant amount of time, which the Rumors DVD-A did.

[strandinthewind]

Here's a very interesting article on the remastered series, with a brief discussion of 'Buckingham Nicks.'

I'm sure most folks here have read it before, but it's interesting to revisit....

http://www.icemagazine.com/stories/204/fleetwoodmac.asp

From that article (emphasis supplied) :

While rumors have abounded recently of Buckingham Nicks finally reaching the CD format, McLees addresses the issue as follows: "There’s all kinds of rights issues that need to be worked out, and we hope at some point that we can get our greasy mitts on it. I would love to do it, and we’re certainly going to be pursuing it, but there’s no official deal in the works yet."

I often wonder what those issues are and if they exist between La Nicks and LB or between them and the players on the record (surely LB and La Nicks are not THAT cheap) - or if Polydor is digging in its heels.

I mean the CD certainly will not sell a million, I think maybe 250,000 :shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

I often wonder what those issues are and if they exist between La Nicks and LB or between them and the players on the record (surely LB and La Nicks are not THAT cheap) - or if Polydor is digging in its heels.I thought I had read years ago, that the hold up had something to do with the publishing rights. I could be wrong.

I've also read that they were having a difficult time finding the original master tapes, in order to do a true remastering.

[strandinthewind]

. . . I've also read that they were having a difficult time finding the original master tapes, in order to do a true remastering.

One of the Q&A sessions here stated that the original masters could not be found to bake - or something like that. But, La Nicks put a BN song on her box set, which to me means they could reissue all of it.

Maybe they are holding out for some reason like a tour with just them :nod:

[David]

Maybe they are holding out for some reason like a tour with just them :nod:I guess they're both waiting until they're perfectly seasoned, trussed & baked to a golden brown.

either that or they don't care about Buckingham Nicks & have no intention of spending any of their time thinking about it

[chiliD]

It's like chili said... we loves our families, but there are still times when they frustrate us, too.

No, don't sugar-coat my words :mad:;) ...I said, "I love my family, too, but I call them idiots quite often as well." :cool:

[David]

But aren't we being a little hard on these guys?I'm gonna stop being hard on fleetwood mac because:

1. It's none of my business what they do.
2. They're beautiful people inside & out & I just don't measure up.
3. They're doing the best that they can & I just don't give them a break.
4. They have done so much already for me.
5. Their music is a gift to me.
6. There's a gnat flying around in here & I can't kill it no matter how many times I clap my hands together, it eludes me.
7. Why is it so humid in my region this morning?
8. I wish Dame Edna would come tour here again.
9. I love you guys & I love the ledge.

[Jyqm]

I know you do not, but the question was and is do they think it is. Who can say for sure, but I think on some level they do think so. I think they are wrong mind you. Interestingly, I wonder if at some point they do not think, okay, no more dwelling on the past, I need to concentrate on the tour, new material, etc. I probably would, esp. if the reissues require any significant amount of time, which the Rumors DVD-A did.

Well, first of all, I have to laugh at the idea of anyone in Fleetwood Mac saying to themselves, "Okay, no more dwelling on the past, time to concentrate on new material."

Irony aside, none of the band needs to be directly involved in any kind of reissue project. I doubt any of them were terribly involved with the last round. Unless Lindsey wanted to personally oversee the remastering of Mirage and Tango, none of them is needed to make further reissues happen. This is all stuff that their people and a record company ought to be doing.

As far as whether they think it's enough... do record companies ever think anything is enough? They're always tossing **** out into the marketplace hoping that anybody will gobble it up. I can't fathom that there's nobody in the music industry who doesn't want to work on getting Fleetwood Mac's albums properly remastered and reissued. Who knows what's holding it up.

[David]

No, don't sugar-coat my words :mad:;) ...I said, "I love my family, too, but I call them idiots quite often as well." :cool:I took my nephew Ammy-Adam (who's the best player in his little league) to the Padres-Dodgers game Saturday night at Petco, & I took him out for ice cream afterward & so I got him back to his mom's kinda late, so when she called me thoughtless & irresponsible I called her an idiot. :thumbsup:

then she called me a ****tard & then I called her an asswipe. Then she asked me whether I'd take Ammy to his Saturday little league game next week so that she could go to a friend's baby shower.

[chiliD]

I thought I had read years ago, that the hold up had something to do with the publishing rights. I could be wrong.

I've also read that they were having a difficult time finding the original master tapes, in order to do a true remastering.

From what I've heard/read, the original multi-track masters are in horrid shape (due to poor storaging)...that it would be somewhere near similar to restoring the Dead Sea Scrolls or the supposed "Gospel Of Judas" to get them to play...and even with that, they'd have ONE SHOT and ONE SHOT ONLY to transfer the songs to a digital format so they could work with them. Since it has been a few years since I heard/read that, those masters could be lost to the ages by now (which is why we haven't seen the BN album released yet)

[strandinthewind]

I guess they're both waiting until they're perfectly seasoned, trussed & baked to a golden brown.

They couldn't be browner :laugh:

Though I must say the sniglet of Frozen Love at the LB Soundstage recording was cool to see in person!

either that or they don't care about Buckingham Nicks & have no intention of spending any of their time thinking about it

I think they spent some significant time thinking about it, but these issues got in the way. Personally, I think LB is prohibiting the release. It is just a gut feeling, but I base it on LB being hesitatnt to do anything related to that era a la Don't Let Me Down Again being dropped after one performance and LB's obvious dislike of the song that I saw in person.

[Johnny Stew]

One of the Q&A sessions here stated that the original masters could not be found to bake - or something like that. But, La Nicks put a BN song on her box set, which to me means they could reissue all of it.But... was "Long Distance Winner" remastered from the original masters for 'Enchanted,' or did they simply remaster a second-generation copy? It sounds to me that they want to go back to the original master tapes for these remastered/expanded projects, and they haven't been able to locate those or they're unusable.

Certainly though, a remastering from a second-generation source would be better than nothing at all.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Certainly though, a remastering from a second-generation source would be better than nothing at all.

It sounded good to me :shrug:

But, who knows :cool:

[BTFLCHLD]

I'm gonna stop being hard on fleetwood mac because:
10. youve a loaf a bread out your ass :p

[David]

Though I must say the sniglet of Frozen Love at the LB Soundstage recording was cool to see in person!it wasn't even a sniglet, it was just stevie singing one line wasn't it?

[DavidMn]

10. youve a loaf a bread out your ass :pThat sounds a bit painful:lol:

[strandinthewind]

it wasn't even a sniglet, it was just stevie singing one line wasn't it?

Yep - but it was way cool to see!!!!!

I remember thinking, if he breaks into that song, I will die right here on this very spot and Sulamith and gldstmwn will have to carry my still smiling corpse back to the car :laugh:

[David]

Yep - but it was way cool to see!!!!!

I remember thinking, if he breaks into that song, I will die right here on this very spot and Sulamith and gldstmwn will have to carry my still smiling corpse back to the car :laugh:Oh sure......this is the guy who sat there on mark & brian in '98 or '97 with his guitar & they asked him to play something....they kept asking him & kept going d'uhhhhhhhh.......................hmmmm......... & turning to stevie & saying "what should we play?" & stevie said "just play something" & mark & brian, after about five mins., finally said "you could just fart & that would be cool too" -- i.e., just play SOMETHING.........and the only thing this "guitar god" could or would play was never going back again, his radio station interview staple for fifteen years.

how ridiculous. buckingham & nicks are sitting there being asked to play stuff & they can't be bothered...... so spontaneous, those two. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I mean, they've only been playing & singing together for what? forty years?

[chiliD]

10. youve a loaf a bread out your ass :p


A bagguette?:shrug:

[BTFLCHLD]

A bagguette?:shrug:
looks to appear a bit larger than that :shrug:
'my what big eyes you have'
wishful thinking i suppose... :rolleyes:

[gldstwmn]

it wasn't even a sniglet, it was just stevie singing one line wasn't it?

You're right. Linds didn't play a note. He looked more game to try the song than she did though. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

. . . how ridiculous. buckingham & nicks are sitting there being asked to play stuff & they can't be bothered...... so spontaneous, those two. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I mean, they've only been playing & singing together for what? forty years?

Child - you are a preachin to the choir :laugh:

I did think it was cool the way La Nicks kept after him to play - It reminded me of my mother keeping after my dad for a new car or something, after 45 years of marriage :laugh:

[The Tower]

I think they spent some significant time thinking about it, but these issues got in the way. Personally, I think LB is prohibiting the release. It is just a gut feeling, but I base it on LB being hesitatnt to do anything related to that era a la Don't Let Me Down Again being dropped after one performance and LB's obvious dislike of the song that I saw in person.
He was probably so horrified and depressed at the fact that they dropped the key so low. It sounded like a 78rpm record played at 33rpm. Who knew Stevie was a bass???

[amber]

He was probably so horrified and depressed at the fact that they dropped the key so low. It sounded like a 78rpm record played at 33rpm. Who knew Stevie was a bass???

Plz. We all did, I thought. "YOU MAY NOT BE-EE AS STRONG AS ME" :laugh:

I agree - but I do see other peoples points. But calling them idiots is ridiculous
Yeah, no.
Welcome to the room, Sara.

[strandinthewind]

He was probably so horrified and depressed at the fact that they dropped the key so low. It sounded like a 78rpm record played at 33rpm. Who knew Stevie was a bass???

Perhaps!!!!!! :cool:

Though, to be fair, he was hardly past baritone himself :laugh:

[The Tower]

Plz. We all did, I thought. "YOU MAY NOT BE-EE AS STRONG AS ME" :laugh:
Well, I was talking about "Don't Let Me Down Again", which was a total embarassment. But, you're right- that total non-melody/not-in-any-key sniglet that Stevie did of "Frozen Love" was....... out there.

Perhaps!!!!!! :cool:

Though, to be fair, he was hardly past baritone himself :laugh:
I don't know what it is about Stevie and her key changes all over the place. I wonder who's idea it is.

The demo of "That's Alright" from BN days vs. Mirage version. (???)

The live "I Don't Want to Know" from BN days vs. Rumours version. (???)

"Stop Draggin' My Heart Around" on this last tour :eek: :eek: :eek: (she can't hit the high notes anymore- or chooses not to)

"Running Through the Garden" in Columbus. (??? - she could have easily pulled it off)

"Landslide" on the Tusk tour jacked up really high. (her thrashed voice couldn't sing the low notes ??)

:shrug:

[strandinthewind]

. . . The demo of "That's Alright" from BN days vs. Mirage version. (???) . . . .

I think the vocal on the Mirage version is far superior to the BN demo. It gives me chills to hear that voice at that time :nod:

As for the others, I agree, though she seemingly went a little higher on this last tour.

[Nixxxed]

From what I've heard/read, the original multi-track masters are in horrid shape (due to poor storaging)...that it would be somewhere near similar to restoring the Dead Sea Scrolls or the supposed "Gospel Of Judas" to get them to play...and even with that, they'd have ONE SHOT and ONE SHOT ONLY to transfer the songs to a digital format so they could work with them. Since it has been a few years since I heard/read that, those masters could be lost to the ages by now (which is why we haven't seen the BN album released yet)
What do you think is up with this blurb then?

02/09/06 Drummer Gary Hodges is in the studio reuniting with old friends to rerecord BuckinghamNicks tracks.

http://untilwehavefaces.com/news.html

Someone pointed this out in the B/N Live tracks thread. Surely the snippet isn't referring to cover versions...

[chiliD]

Well, after reading that, it seems that they may be TRYING to get the album ready to release...but some of the tracks may have been lost...or just PARTS of tracks, or the like. (hence the overdubbing of new parts).

If they finally DO release it, I think our expectations may have reached unreachable levels and after the initial glee of its official release, we could be in for a BIG, BIG let down.

[SteveMacD]

"Running Through the Garden" in Columbus. (??? - she could have easily pulled it off)
I was at that show (first night of the tour). Stevie was simply not into it. She just stood over to her side of the stage, moved a little, but nothing much. It was definitely Lindsey's night.

[SteveMacD]

Now, only one of EC's albums (My Aim Is True) has ever gone platinum,
Okay, but you do realize that when discussing rock artists, there's only on EC, and his first name is Eric...

[SteveMacD]

Also Mick probably wanted to give a nod to this incarantion of FM and throw a dig at Lindsey.
What the fu....

:shrug:

That makes no sense whatsoever. I think you're looking for drama that doesn't exist. Like the time somebody had a blurb on a Stevie fan site that she was doing "Twisted" with Lindsey to get back at Mick for "Time," which was especially funny, as Mick played drums on "Twisted."

[SteveMacD]

I think we're being hard on the band because WE SEE THE POTENTIAL, and they're not living up to it. It's that simple. Take "Behind The Mask" as an example. There were FAR superior songs than what actually made the final cut. Songs that could have made a bigger dent in the charts. If they had the attitude they've had since Lindsey quit in 1987 throughout their entire career, the band would have ended with either Peter Green or Jeremy Spencer quitting the group. Hiring Bob Welch was a risk. Hiring Stevie Nicks was a risk. The band is MUCH better off for having taking those risks. The first single from "Behind The Mask" should have been "Intuition" which not only wasn't released as a single, it wasn't even put on the damn album. While that song is a "safe" AOR-ish song, the fact that it was sung by one of the new guys (not even the guy primarily hired to be the male singer/songwriter) would have said "the NEW Fleetwood Mac has arrived." But, instead, the band played it safe. To put it another way, just consider they released FIVE Christine songs in a row from "Little Lies" to "Skies The Limit." That's just ONE example, and a small one at that. There are MANY examples.

[Johnny Stew]

The band is MUCH better off for having taking those risks. The first single from "Behind The Mask" should have been "Intuition" which not only wasn't released as a single, it wasn't even put on the damn album. While that song is a "safe" AOR-ish song, the fact that it was sung by one of the new guys (not even the guy primarily hired to be the male singer/songwriter) would have said "the NEW Fleetwood Mac has arrived." But, instead, the band played it safe.While I'm not disagreeing with you in essence, I've heard many bands and solo artists state that they typically have little-to-no say in which singles are released -- that it's largely a record company decision.

[MacMan]

Absolutely. My stand-by example is always Elvis Costello. Rhino Records just completed a four-year project of reissuing all of his albums from 1977 to 1996. That's seventeen albums! I believe each one was remastered, but the real selling point was that each reissue had the original album on one disc, plus one disc of bonus material (demos, outtakes, collaborations, one-offs, live tracks, all kinds of stuff). They're not all that dissimilar from the Rumours and Tusk reissues, the main difference being that every one of EC's reissues was priced like a single CD at $17.99 or $18.99, as opposed to $22.99 or whatever the Mac reissues cost.

Now, only one of EC's albums (My Aim Is True) has ever gone platinum, and three others (This Year's Model, Armed Forces and Spike) have gone gold. Yet Rhino thought it was worthwhile to spend four years assembling these really nice packages for all seventeen of his albums, and then release them at a relatively bargain price. So nobody's convincing me that Mac reissues are finanically undesirable.

And presumably Rhino could have done the same with Fleetwood Mac, but somehow Warner jumped in and grabbed back the project, and now look where we are.

In this type of instance, It must be all about the cash or deal struck between the artist and the organization putting it the reissues. I'm sure there has got to be negotiations with the artist on what the labels will pay them to release remasters and all the other bonus stuff. Maybe Fleetwood Mac want's too much money... Are remasters treated like new albums in the sense that there needs to be a new deal with the artist as if it's a new album. I mean I'm sure the deciding factor is who owns the masters.

[The Catdancer]

"Stop Draggin' My Heart Around" on this last tour (she can't hit the high notes anymore- or chooses not to)

I think she chooses not to. Just listen Rock 'n Roll, she's awesome which makes me think:"Why doesn't she do a whole show like that?" Full of energy and high notes. I wish she would sing Edge or SB like that, or Rhiannon. Rock 'n Roll proves she can do it.....

[Jyqm]

Okay, but you do realize that when discussing rock artists, there's only on EC, and his first name is Eric...

No, he's Clapton, and you can call him Clapton, because that's his real name.

(Besides, the man goes by the name Elvis Costello, and you want to complain that there's only room for one "EC" in rock music?!)

[Jyqm]

In this type of instance, It must be all about the cash or deal struck between the artist and the organization putting it the reissues. I'm sure there has got to be negotiations with the artist on what the labels will pay them to release remasters and all the other bonus stuff. Maybe Fleetwood Mac want's too much money...

That's certainly a possibility, in which case, once again, shame on them.

[amber]

At this point, it's just really hard for me to buy that they are all trying to get a bunch of money. I'm not saying it isn't true, but it just doesn't make sense to me that it would be a very very strong motivation for them. It seems especially Ell and Ess, who seem to share a good portion of the decision making about the catalogue and new stuff, should be almost as rich as god by this point. Is it their people who are doing the negotiating independently of much of the artists input? Do they discuss these things heavily? Is it like hollywood agents who just push, push, push to get the most money for their actor clients? Is it because they have to pay all the lawyers and bookers and whatever beaurocracy is involved in this crap?
I feel there is a big chunk of this whole "FM are managing themselves and their material and their concerts and their new albums stupidly" thing that we must be missing. I'd love to see all the stupid paperwork and numbers and stuff. Very, very much.

I know a lot of you others believe it's largely about money and stupidity, and I'm not saying that absolutely could not be the case, but it just doesn't gel with me as the only explanations. These people aren't stupid, and they aren't novices, and they aren't people who don't care about their music. There must be pieces of the puzzle missing. Even Mick, a well known money grubbing whore, couldn't be responsible for all this mess.
DAMMIT! *sigh*

[chiliD]

(Besides, the man goes by the name Elvis Costello, and you want to complain that there's only room for one "EC" in rock music?!)

The supposed Mr. Costello's name is LEGALLY Declan McManus and, yes, there's only ONE EC (that matters) in rock music!

[BTFLCHLD]

y e s thanks to lindsey!!!! :xoxo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdKGZJOfrNk

oh and lindsey, stevie was not ready!
does she look pissed or what????
:lol: badboy!

[Jyqm]

and, yes, there's only ONE EC (that matters) in rock music!

Oh, come now, Clapton's career hasn't been that bad for that long.

[David]

Okay, but you do realize that when discussing rock artists, there's only on EC, and his first name is Eric...Costello's a far greater songwriter than Clapton.

But of course Costello's a far greater songwriter than virtually everybody in rock.

[Johnny Stew]

At this point, it's just really hard for me to buy that they are all trying to get a bunch of money. I'm not saying it isn't true, but it just doesn't make sense to me that it would be a very very strong motivation for them. Plus, it seems like a little of the ol' "cutting off your nose to spite your face" line of thinking, if they're denying themselves a chance to make ANY profit on a long-ago recorded album, simply because they want more money from it.

I have a feeling it's somewhat out of their hands, and they're largely relying on other people to make it happen.

[BTFLCHLD]

maybe they are busy putting together
the next round of fmtouring? ever think of that :lol:
maybe stevie will one-day record
a performance for offering...
soundstage would be wonderful
as lindsey looked and sounded gorgeous
should that be a concern of msnicks :shrug:

[GypsySongbird]

The supposed Mr. Costello's name is LEGALLY Declan McManus and, yes, there's only ONE EC (that matters) in rock music!

here here!

i dont think i am the first to say

Clapton is God! :D

[amber]

Plus, it seems like a little of the ol' "cutting off your nose to spite your face" line of thinking, if they're denying themselves a chance to make ANY profit on a long-ago recorded album, simply because they want more money from it.

I have a feeling it's somewhat out of their hands, and they're largely relying on other people to make it happen.

But why? I mean, of course people work for them and take care of things, but who's hands is it in? Is it so far out of their hands they couldn't do anything?
Like I said, I think there's a puzzle piece missing.

[Johnny Stew]

But why? I mean, of course people work for them and take care of things, but who's hands is it in? Is it so far out of their hands they couldn't do anything? Well, I think remastering albums is usually left to the professionals to do. I'm sure Stevie or Lindsey could sit in on some of the remastering, if they chose to, but otherwise they have to let someone else take care of it. And I'm sure, as far as rights go, it's a matter for lawyers to haggle out, and not the artists themselves.

So it's up to Stevie & Lindsey to give the greenlight, of course, but I think beyond that, it's out of their hands.

[amber]

Well, I think remastering albums is usually left to the professionals to do. I'm sure Stevie or Lindsey could sit in on some of the remastering, if they chose to, but otherwise they have to let someone else take care of it. And I'm sure, as far as rights go, it's a matter for lawyers to haggle out, and not the artists themselves.

So it's up to Stevie & Lindsey to give the greenlight, of course, but I think beyond that, it's out of their hands.
Um, wouldn't Ell and Ess be the ones to tell someone to tell someone to remaster their albums, or compile live DVD's? And that's what I'm saying, there are lawyers, but don't they work for Ell and Ess? Don't they have to do what Ell and Ess want them to do?

[mylittledemon]

Hi all,
I understand you're all frustrated, trust me I am too. But aren't we being a little hard on these guys? .


No, we're not.

[elie]

Hi all,
I understand you're all frustrated, trust me I am too. But aren't we being a little hard on these guys?

Personally I think it is insane to get mad at an artist you admire. I don't mean to offend any of you, but to me, it just doesn't make sense.
I buy their albums, I am happy if something new comes out, but if it doesn't, that's ok too. I stick with the old ones. What would really make me mad would be the lack of honesty or the effort to make money on the fans'expense. I know it sounds a bit far-fetched, so I will explain myself. I know a band (actually I used to be a huge fan of theirs) who once declared on the internet that they would stop making albums the normal way, i.e. though a record company etc and they would work with the money they would get from "supporters", namely the fans that would subscribe to their "project" and send something like $ 40 each. Then they would use all the money to produce an album on their own, without any help from record companies. Of course (as I had suspected it would not work) and while hundreds of fans had sent their money, they still went on and issued a new album with their old recold company :rolleyes:
I was disgusted..
Now that's a behaviour I would get mad about - and not at them , at me, for being a fan of such hilarious people. Luckily enough I hadn't sent any money..

Sorry for the Off-topic, I just meant to say that IMHO there is no real reason to get mad at FM. They've been out there for years and with or without remasters or I don't know what else, we'll always have their music and that's what matters (I 'm so corny!)

[Sahara]

I think she chooses not to. Just listen Rock 'n Roll, she's awesome which makes me think:"Why doesn't she do a whole show like that?" Full of energy and high notes. I wish she would sing Edge or SB like that, or Rhiannon. Rock 'n Roll proves she can do it.....

I watched the Melbourne vid of this for the first time the other day. I was soooooo blown away! It was incredible! :blob2:

That's my girl.

[David]

Personally I think it is insane to get mad at an artist you admire.
Well, that's true. I think when someone says he's mad at fleetwood mac, it's just a figure of speech. At least I hope no one is actually bursting a blood vessel over the fact that fleetwood mac doesn't release much stuff.

[BTFLCHLD]

At least I hope no one is actually bursting a blood vessel over the fact that fleetwood mac doesn't release much stuff.
you mean no one is dying? :shocked:
we arent saving lives??
ive always wanted to be a nurse
boy did i get screwed...again :mad:

[Sahara]

Well, that's true. I think when someone says he's mad at fleetwood mac, it's just a figure of speech. At least I hope no one is actually bursting a blood vessel over the fact that fleetwood mac doesn't release much stuff.

Exactly. It's more that we just long for more! And more! We are savages, people! SAVAGES!!

Woops, sorry. I should really go to sleep now.

[Jyqm]

Um, wouldn't Ell and Ess be the ones to tell someone to tell someone to remaster their albums, or compile live DVD's? And that's what I'm saying, there are lawyers, but don't they work for Ell and Ess? Don't they have to do what Ell and Ess want them to do?

Sure, but obviously neither L nor S nor M cares enough about the idea of releasing such projects to encourage their people to make it happen. Certainly there are some record company politics involved as well, but a fair part of the reason none of these projects seem to be happening right now is because the members of the band seem to be taking an at best laissez-faire attitude toward them.

[Richard B]

What the fu....

:shrug:

That makes no sense whatsoever. I think you're looking for drama that doesn't exist.
No drama. I was joking. I guess I need to be very careful when posting and making flagrant comments. People take it so seriously. As if I know why they released the Tango DVD after Lindsey rejoined the band and fired Vito and Burnette so consumers would be confused as to who is in the band.
Did I say fired? I mean "let go" or "dismissed from substitute music playing because Lindsey is back."

[SteveMacD]

I'd like to point out that Bob Welch does release little tidbits on his website. He posted cassette tape demos of songs from the 1970s, new songs not included on "His Fleetwood Mac Years And Beyond 2," and live tracks from recent appearances in the Nashville area. :wavey:
I don't think Welch, Green, Spencer, or Kirwan are ever thrown into the equation in terms of frustration with the band. In fact, I'd almost say that it's the way the Green/Spencer years have been covered actually leads a lot of us to be frustrated with the "Rumours" band. "The Complete Blue Horizon Sessions," all three "Vaudville Years" compilations, the BBC recordings, the Boston Tea Party set, stuff with Brunning, and other live recordings have graced record stores in the last decade or so. This has given fans, most of whom weren't there when it was going on, a complete picture of that era of Fleetwood Mac, which is simply not the case with the "Rumours" band.

[SteveMacD]

No drama. I was joking. I guess I need to be very careful when posting and making flagrant comments. People take it so seriously.

Only because we've seen people who WERE being serious while making such comments before. ;) Such as the example of "Twisted," which in hindsight is hilarious on several levels.

As if I know why they released the Tango DVD after Lindsey rejoined the band and fired Vito and Burnette so consumers would be confused as to who is in the band.

Did I say fired? I mean "let go" or "dismissed from substitute music playing because Lindsey is back."

You're pushing it...:lol:

[DavidMn]

I don't think Welch, Green, Spencer, or Kirwan are ever thrown into the equation in terms of frustration with the band. In fact, I'd almost say that it's the way the Green/Spencer years have been covered actually leads a lot of us to be frustrated with the "Rumours" band. "The Complete Blue Horizon Sessions," all three "Vaudville Years" compilations, the BBC recordings, the Boston Tea Party set, stuff with Brunning, and other live recordings have graced record stores in the last decade or so. This has given fans, most of whom weren't there when it was going on, a complete picture of that era of Fleetwood Mac, which is simply not the case with the "Rumours" band.Good point Steve. I hadnt thought of it that way.:nod:

[Jyqm]

all three "Vaudville Years" compilations

Zuh?! What have you got that I don't, MacDougall!!!

Otherwise, excellent point. The care that has been taken to preserve and expand the legacy of the Peter Green era of the band is exemplary and is exactly the kind of treatment that should be given to other eras of the band.

[chiliD]

Zuh?! What have you got that I don't, MacDougall!!!

I'm just assuming here that he's referring to the Madison Blues set as "volume 3" of the Vaudeville Years theme. :shrug:

Right, Steve-o?

[Nixxxed]

I don't think Welch, Green, Spencer, or Kirwan are ever thrown into the equation in terms of frustration with the band. In fact, I'd almost say that it's the way the Green/Spencer years have been covered actually leads a lot of us to be frustrated with the "Rumours" band. "The Complete Blue Horizon Sessions," all three "Vaudville Years" compilations, the BBC recordings, the Boston Tea Party set, stuff with Brunning, and other live recordings have graced record stores in the last decade or so. This has given fans, most of whom weren't there when it was going on, a complete picture of that era of Fleetwood Mac, which is simply not the case with the "Rumours" band.
I'm glad you posted this. I was going to try to do a list of pre-Rumours vs. Rumours-present releases, but the list was so long I became frustrated and stopped (especially on stupid Amazon.com). For those interested, go to CDUniverse and take a look. The Mac list is about 60% pre-Rumours (maybe even 70%).

There were many pre-Rumours albums, but that's not what we're talking about - I counted at least 5 live albums, a couple of boxed sets, and special releases galore including video. And not to belittle that era of the band, but if there's a viable market for that stuff I'd wager the market for the latter era is even greater. It just doesn't make sense to me, and that's what makes it so frustrating.

[The Catdancer]

I watched the Melbourne vid of this for the first time the other day. I was soooooo blown away! It was incredible! :blob2:

That's my girl.

My girlfriend, who is not a Stevie fan, loves the way she does that song but she says she sounds bored and flat the rest of the show.....:shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

The care that has been taken to preserve and expand the legacy of the Peter Green era of the band is exemplary and is exactly the kind of treatment that should be given to other eras of the band.For me, the question again becomes one of: How involved is the band in these types of projects?

Is it through the band members' initiative that the Peter Green material gets released, or is it because of guys like "Jet" Martin Celmins and Mike Vernon?

[Lala]

OH...MY...GAWD :eek:

Look at the size of this thread! WHAT HAVE I DONE!?

[Nixxxed]

OH...MY...GAWD :eek:

Look at the size of this thread! WHAT HAVE I DONE!?
You did it on purpose, you MACraker!

;)

[Jyqm]

For me, the question again becomes one of: How involved is the band in these types of projects?

Generally, as involved as they want to be.

Is it through the band members' initiative that the Peter Green material gets released,

Absolutely not, I doubt any one of them had anything to do with it at all.

or is it because of guys like "Jet" Martin Celmins and Mike Vernon?

Them, and other folks at Blue Horizon and Sanctuary.

As I've mentioned a few times in this thread, I for one don't solely blame the band for the general lack of archival material. A good portion of the blame goes to Reprise.

[Lala]

You did it on purpose, you MACraker!

;)

http://smilies.vidahost.com/ups/DeNiro/tonguey.gif

That's Ms. MACracker to you!

I don't know what I'm saying. My head hurts.

[MacMan]

As I've mentioned a few times in this thread, I for one don't solely blame the band for the general lack of archival material. A good portion of the blame goes to Reprise.

Maybe F.Harding stole all the good stuff?

[Johnny Stew]

A good portion of the blame goes to Reprise.I had thought that David McLees was sort of becoming Fleetwood Mac's champion at the label, and that through him, a lot of great stuff was going to see the light of day... but I don't know what happened with that. I should find an address for him, and write. Maybe he isn't even still with them.

[SteveMacD]

I'm just assuming here that he's referring to the Madison Blues set as "volume 3" of the Vaudeville Years theme. :shrug:

Right, Steve-o?
Affirmative.

[elie]

Well, that's true. I think when someone says he's mad at fleetwood mac, it's just a figure of speech. At least I hope no one is actually bursting a blood vessel over the fact that fleetwood mac doesn't release much stuff.

Well, I used the word as a figure of speech myself. I didn't imply that anyone is literaly mad over something. I meant the frustration and the complaining and all that. Even that, to me, is insane.:) Again, I don't mean to offend anyone..

[DavidMn]

OH...MY...GAWD :eek:

Look at the size of this thread! WHAT HAVE I DONE!?What's the old saying? Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one.:lol:

[Johnny Stew]

What's the old saying? Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one.....and they usually stink. :nod:

[David]

What's the old saying? Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one.:lol:I knew one gal who had some sort of an illness & they took off her asshole.

[chiliD]

I knew one gal who had some sort of an illness & they took off her asshole.

What? :eek: They shot her boyfriend? :eek:

:laugh:

[HomerMcvie]

I knew one gal who had some sort of an illness & they took off her asshole.
What did they replace it with?