Destiny Rules: the unseen bit

[Forshorn]

Sorry if this is an ancient topic, but I recently saw the documentary "Destiny Rules" and I was curious about what passed between Stevie and Lindsey that didn't make it into the DVD version. Some yelling and screaming, or something?

Anyone know or know where there's a transcript? It was on VH1, I guess.

[danax6]

There was an argument about naming the album Say You Will that wasn't on the Destiny Rules dvd.

[johnny4406]

Naming the album.... any more details about this? Did he want to name it something else? I thought they also argued about the tracklisting..

[shackin'up]

Destiny rules would have been the best title for the album.

[David]

Destiny rules would have been the best title for the album.
Or maybe something like "Supplemental Material" or "My Big Toe Aches" or even "Variations on a Couple of Dumb Themes & a Few Good Ones" or "So What Happened You're Probably Wondering To My Engineering Skills?"

Did we ever have a poll here for Most Wanted Name for The Album?

[DavidMn]

Or maybe something like "Supplemental Material" or "My Big Toe Aches" or even "Variations on a Couple of Dumb Themes & a Few Good Ones" or "So What Happened You're Probably Wondering To My Engineering Skills?"

Did we ever have a poll here for Most Wanted Name for The Album?
I know in the tour book Stevie joked about calling it Infatuation.:laugh:

[Forshorn]

On Ledge I saw a reference to Stevie screaming at poor Lindsey. Anyone know about this? Screaming is always interesting.

Also, Lindsey said Stevie was still made about the track order. Did she want her songs first?

I like everything about Say You Will but the title (and "Silver Girl" and "Running Through the Garden"). It is basically a trivial title that suggests light pop music.

"Steal Your Heart Away" might have been a good title, expressing the band's desire to win its fans back.

[shackin'up]

I bet she moaned about the fact that Murrow was track 2. She would have had a point there...:nod:

[madformac]

I bet she moaned about the fact that Murrow was track 2. She would have had a point there...:nod:

It's my favourite song along with Destiny Rules but I think those two were in the wrong order. Murrow should be at 6 or 7. Destiny Rules at 2 or 3 IMO.

[madformac]

Did we ever have a poll here for Most Wanted Name for The Album?

What about "Cycles"? :laugh:

or "Say You Will Before We Get Too Old"?

What about "Where's Chris"? :wavey:

[Sahara]

I like everything about Say You Will but the title. It is basically a trivial title that suggests light pop music.

"Steal Your Heart Away" might have been a good title, expressing the band's desire to win its fans back.

That's actually a good point, I never really thought about it.

'Scuse my ignorance, but why do people get so invovled with the running order of an album? Presumably so that songs sort of flow into each other, but is there something else?

[johnny4406]

I love what Lindsey did with the tracklisting order

The fact that murrow is #2 makes Illume stand out so much more (as well as Thrown Down)

I LOVE the order of the songs...

[shackin'up]

It's my favourite song along with Destiny Rules but I think those two were in the wrong order. Murrow should be at 6 or 7. Destiny Rules at 2 or 3 IMO.

yeah. murrow should have been switched with Say you will and SYW with DR

[Boots]

On Ledge I saw a reference to Stevie screaming at poor Lindsey. Anyone know about this? Screaming is always interesting.



I'm not sure if this is the same yelling session you mean....but Stevie yelled at Lindsey when there was a dispute about the sound mixer. Stevie wanted Chris Lord Alge to mix the songs on the album, and Lindsey wanted Mark Needham. In order to hold onto their studio time with Lord-Alge, Lindsey had to sign a deal memo by a certain time; however, he wasn't ready to do this because he was asked to give up all his songs - even the ones he wasn't sure he wanted to use on the album.

I think there was some mix up in when he was supposed to sign these over to Lord-Alge. Stevie's attorneys were working on this, noting that LB hadn't signed anything yet. This meant that Stevie was going to lose a session that was scheduled for the next day. So, LB said - call your attorney to see how we can sort this out so you can get tomorrow back. Karen was about to do it, but LB got a little bitchy and called the attorney himself, claiming on the phone that "People are here pointing fingers"....to which Stevie yelled, "OH LINDSEY..NO ONE IS POINTING FINGERS AT ANYONE!!"...and then there were some candid shots of them yelling at each other off camera. It was simply some bickering between friends over who was going to mix the album. Their voices were raised. It wasn't particularly startling - especially if you know their history. LB kind of had the right to hold his music back - but you knew he wasn't that hot about Lord-Alge mixing the album. Stevie wasn't all hot about Needham mixing the album...but they all compromised because Lord-Alge didn't have the time. Needham mixed the rest. Somehow I think Lindsey won the battle by holding out.

If there was some real yelling -- other than that -- going on, then I missed it - or there is a story out there that I'd love to hear myself.:)

[danax6]

I'm not sure if this is the same yelling session you mean....but Stevie yelled at Lindsey when there was a dispute about the sound mixer. Stevie wanted Chris Lord Alge to mix the songs on the album, and Lindsey wanted Mark Needham. In order to hold onto their studio time with Lord-Alge, Lindsey had to sign a deal memo by a certain time; however, he wasn't ready to do this because he was asked to give up all his songs - even the ones he wasn't sure he wanted to use on the album.

I think there was some mix up in when he was supposed to sign these over to Lord-Alge. Stevie's attorneys were working on this, noting that LB hadn't signed anything yet. This meant that Stevie was going to lose a session that was scheduled for the next day. So, LB said - call your attorney to see how we can sort this out so you can get tomorrow back. Karen was about to do it, but LB got a little bitchy and called the attorney himself, claiming on the phone that "People are here pointing fingers"....to which Stevie yelled, "OH LINDSEY..NO ONE IS POINTING FINGERS AT ANYONE!!"...and then there were some candid shots of them yelling at each other off camera. It was simply some bickering between friends over who was going to mix the album. Their voices were raised. It wasn't particularly startling - especially if you know their history. LB kind of had the right to hold his music back - but you knew he wasn't that hot about Lord-Alge mixing the album. Stevie wasn't all hot about Needham mixing the album...but they all compromised because Lord-Alge didn't have the time. Needham mixed the rest. Somehow I think Lindsey won the battle by holding out.In comparison, that was probably very tame. Stevie played peacekeeper in the end by saying 'let them sort it out'. I guess she didn't want to argue anymore. I liked how they even harmonized using high pitched voices. They were both squeaking. :laugh:


If there was some real yelling -- other than that -- going on, then I missed it - or there is a story out there that I'd love to hear myself.:)I think she meant the part that was on the All Access show, where Stevie is complaining about how Lindsey probably didn't like it because she wrote it. And then a bit later she is shown lowering her hands in defeat, saying 'well, then think of something else'.

[DZgirlie]

""I think she meant the part that was on the All Access show, where Stevie is complaining about how Lindsey probably didn't like it because she wrote it. And then a bit later she is shown lowering her hands in defeat, saying 'well, then think of something else'."" That's the one that has me most interested. I mean, her saying that Lindsey wouldn't like it just because it was her idea, that's totally telling me that there are some crazy issues still unresolved.
I'm so wanting to really see the whole thing.

[Hawkeye]

Yeah, I dont know why they took out the part from all access. Its probably the most intense footgae I've seen and it wasnt even in Destiny Rules. O LOVE Destiny Rules pretty much as is, but it really could've been so much better, and they cut out so much good stuff, and had some stuff in there that was maybe a little redundent, like discussing the double album in like 3 different seperate but very similar segmetns, that didn't even get that heated. I would've really like to hear the discsions over the title, running order, what songs Stevie wanted out what songs Lindsey wanted out, and just maybe more footage of them recording songs.

[Boots]

Dang - I totally missed All Access. I'd love to have more scenes where there is more discussion on the song order and all. I wonder why the producers decided to snip that bit?

[shackin'up]

Yeah, I dont know why they took out the part from all access. Its probably the most intense footgae I've seen and it wasnt even in Destiny Rules. O LOVE Destiny Rules pretty much as is, but it really could've been so much better, and they cut out so much good stuff, and had some stuff in there that was maybe a little redundent, like discussing the double album in like 3 different seperate but very similar segmetns, that didn't even get that heated. I would've really like to hear the discsions over the title, running order, what songs Stevie wanted out what songs Lindsey wanted out, and just maybe more footage of them recording songs.

If I'm correct, the discussions about running order were much later than during the filmsessions,by telephone while Stevie was in hawaii and lindsey finished the album. (isn't that typical?)

[Sahara]

In comparison, that was probably very tame. Stevie played peacekeeper in the end by saying 'let them sort it out'. I guess she didn't want to argue anymore. I liked how they even harmonized using high pitched voices. They were both squeaking. :laugh:


The squeaking angry-Lindsey thing cracked me up.

Sorry, Lindsey. Wub ya! :xoxo:

[MacFans]

We would LOVE to see the whole thing unedited! Does anyone else think it's strange tho that VH1 aired it at all? Fleetwood Mac isn't exactly a current band and VH1 NEVER airs anything good or even music related anymore. We thought it was weird that they aired 90 minutes of FM with no commercials and in prime time. Did anyone else think it was strange? Did FM pay for them to air it? We were thinking money had to have changed hands for them to not only air it the first time with no commercials but then reair it over and over again. :confused:

[MacMan]

We would LOVE to see the whole thing unedited! Does anyone else think it's strange tho that VH1 aired it at all? Fleetwood Mac isn't exactly a current band and VH1 NEVER airs anything good or even music related anymore. We thought it was weird that they aired 90 minutes of FM with no commercials and in prime time. Did anyone else think it was strange? Did FM pay for them to air it? We were thinking money had to have changed hands for them to not only air it the first time with no commercials but then reair it over and over again. :confused:

Well Vh1 WAS a sponsor for the 2004 leg of the tour... probably part of the negotiation package...

[MacFans]

Well Vh1 WAS a sponsor for the 2004 leg of the tour... probably part of the negotiation package...

Oh doh! Forgot about that. So that would make more sense! Thanks.

[catinthedark]

Did we ever have a poll here for Most Wanted Name for The Album?


well, we should have if we didn't.

how about...

"Yeah, We All Hated Silver Girl, Too. But What Can Ya Do?"

i dunno. has a nice ring to it, no?

[strandinthewind]

well, we should have if we didn't.

how about...

"Yeah, We All Hated Silver Girl, Too. But What Can Ya Do?"

i dunno. has a nice ring to it, no?

Actually, it should be "LINDSEY - YOU FUKCED UP MY SILVER GIRL DEMO!!!!!! - NO STRIP AND ASSUME THE POSITION" :wavey: :wavey:

[johnny4406]

Does ANYONE have the alternate tracklisting????

[BTFLCHLD]

love it when stevie gets pissy and slaps her thighs :woohoo:

[Sahara]

Actually, it should be "LINDSEY - YOU FUKCED UP MY SILVER GIRL DEMO!!!!!! - NO STRIP AND ASSUME THE POSITION" :wavey: :wavey:

:lol: :eek: :lol: You crack me up, mate.

[irishgrl]

I dont know if this is correct or not, but I seem to recall the running order issue relating to the last songs "Say Goodbye" and "Goodbye Baby". At first, I think the order had Lindsey's song last, but eventually Stevie prevailed and "Goodbye Baby" was last, to leave things (as Stevie wanted) on a more positive note.

[Sahara]

I dont know if this is correct or not, but I seem to recall the running order issue relating to the last songs "Say Goodbye" and "Goodbye Baby". At first, I think the order had Lindsey's song last, but eventually Stevie prevailed and "Goodbye Baby" was last, to leave things (as Stevie wanted) on a more positive note.

I think it was the right choice. The two songs complement each other nicely. They were the right two to finish with.

[wondergirl9847]

I dont know if this is correct or not, but I seem to recall the running order issue relating to the last songs "Say Goodbye" and "Goodbye Baby". At first, I think the order had Lindsey's song last, but eventually Stevie prevailed and "Goodbye Baby" was last, to leave things (as Stevie wanted) on a more positive note.

Yep, a song about aborting a child is WAY more positive than telling a lover goodbye. :rolleyes:

Girlfriend is crazy. :laugh:

[danax6]

Yep, a song about aborting a child is WAY more positive than telling a lover goodbye. :rolleyes:

Girlfriend is crazy. :laugh:Ah, but you see, it had to the "I'll beeeee with youuuuuu again..." line. I can see how that's more positive than "Now I say goodbye to you..." ;)

[tuigirl]

Dang - I totally missed All Access. I'd love to have more scenes where there is more discussion on the song order and all. I wonder why the producers decided to snip that bit?

I don't believe I've ever seen All Access here as a programme, anyone able to upload anything on You Tube?

[Johnny Stew]

I dont know if this is correct or not, but I seem to recall the running order issue relating to the last songs "Say Goodbye" and "Goodbye Baby". At first, I think the order had Lindsey's song last, but eventually Stevie prevailed and "Goodbye Baby" was last, to leave things (as Stevie wanted) on a more positive note.I can't remember which magazine the article was in, but shortly before the album was released, Lindsey said that they disagreed on the running order because it was (and I'm paraphrasing here), "Stevie's natural inclination to put the heavier songs towards the end of the album," but that he wanted them upfront and not "buried."

I don't know that it was wise to have "Murrow" and "Illume" as the second and third tracks though. They should have built towards those... taking the listener on a bit of a journey. :shrug:

[David]

I can't remember which magazine the article was in, but shortly before the album was released, Lindsey said that they disagreed on the running order because it was (and I'm paraphrasing here), "Stevie's natural inclination to put the heavier songs towards the end of the album," but that he wanted them upfront and not "buried."

I don't know that it was wise to have "Murrow" and "Illume" as the second and third tracks though. They should have built towards those... taking the listener on a bit of a journey. :shrug:I think their decision should have been strictly aural/abstract rather than thematic/verbal.

[Boots]

Yep, a song about aborting a child is WAY more positive than telling a lover goodbye. :rolleyes:

Girlfriend is crazy. :laugh:

Who ever said this song was about anybody aborting a child? That's pure speculation.

[Sahara]

I don't believe I've ever seen All Access here as a programme, anyone able to upload anything on You Tube?

I've a funny feeling it's on www.throwndown-videos.net. I LIVE there these days. :woohoo:

[Johnny Stew]

I think their decision should have been strictly aural/abstract rather than thematic/verbal.A little of both would be the best way to go, I imagine. Tracking the songs so that they play off of each other both sonically and thematically.

I've always thought the running orders of FM's albums are somewhat scattershot anyway, often causing the three writers' material to pull away from each other, rather than being complimentary. But then I'm more of a harmony over discord kind of guy, so that's probably just me.

[cliffdweller]

Who ever said this song was about anybody aborting a child?


I thought Stevie did, in an interview? :shrug:

We found out that it was partially about Don Henley and the line "when you build your house, then call me home" was about him. Apparently he was building a house at the time. I thought it was in this same interview that she ponied up about the abortion of their child and how she named the fetus Sara or something like that. I'm vague on all of this.

[catinthedark]

Who ever said this song was about anybody aborting a child? That's pure speculation.


THANK you very much.

ugh. i can't even get into this discussion.

[tuigirl]

I've a funny feeling it's on www.throwndown-videos.net. I LIVE there these days. :woohoo:

Oh sahara! many thanks, I just saw it...I didn't know there was so much on that site, will have to check it out some more:)

[strandinthewind]

I thought Stevie did, in an interview? :shrug:

We found out that it was partially about Don Henley and the line "when you build your house, then call me home" was about him. Apparently he was building a house at the time. I thought it was in this same interview that she ponied up about the abortion of their child and how she named the fetus Sara or something like that. I'm vague on all of this.

If memory serves me correctly, La Nicks has never commented on GB except to say that they close the show with it and it is an emotional song for her. Personally, I think she re wrote it for SYW to make it about LB and herself as opposed to the loss of a child, which could be her child and I also think Rhiannon's lost child.

[JeannieKartis]

there was alot of 'discussion' regarding Linsdey wanting SYW to be a double album...

[skcin]

I thought Stevie did, in an interview? :shrug:

We found out that it was partially about Don Henley and the line "when you build your house, then call me home" was about him. Apparently he was building a house at the time. I thought it was in this same interview that she ponied up about the abortion of their child and how she named the fetus Sara or something like that. I'm vague on all of this.


Wait - are you talking about Sara or Goodbye Baby? Boots is referring to GB, I believe. :shrug:

[cliffdweller]

Wait - are you talking about Sara or Goodbye Baby? Boots is referring to GB, I believe. :shrug:


I'm talking about Sara. Oops, confusitron :confused:

How did I mix those two up? Oh wait, I know, Goodbye Baby has the "don't take me to the tower and take my child away"....line and I must have conflated it with Sara somehow, but is that how I got confused?? I'll have to go back and re-read this thread :laugh:.

[skcin]

I'm talking about Sara. Oops, confusitron :confused:

How did I mix those two up? Oh wait, I know, Goodbye Baby has the "don't take me to the tower and take my child away"....line and I must have conflated it with Sara somehow, but is that how I got confused?? I'll have to go back and re-read this thread :laugh:.


Oh, no, that's OK. Both tunes are rumoured to be about Stevie's alleged pregnancy termination. But she's never confirmed or denied that about either tune.

[strandinthewind]

Oh, no, that's OK. Both tunes are rumoured to be about Stevie's alleged pregnancy termination. But she's never confirmed or denied that about either tune.

She did acknowledge the abortion but not necessarily that Sara was about that - if memory serves me correctly.