Why, Oh Why did Stevie turn down "These Dreams"?

[vermicious knid]

First, let me say that I would rather Stevie used only songs that she wrote herself. Especially since she has so many that she has not released. But during the making of Rock a Little, when she was accepting other people's songs, she should have chosen "These Dreams" before she chose anything else. Heart went to number one with it. I have never heard "Talk to Me" on the radio in my life, but I do hear "These Dreams". It's great.

Just one more way that Rock a Little could have been awesome.

[dissention]

Best screenname EVER, dude. :thumbsup:

[GardenStateGirlie]

First, let me say that I would rather Stevie used only songs that she wrote herself. Especially since she has so many that she has not released. But during the making of Rock a Little, when she was accepting other people's songs, she should have chosen "These Dreams" before she chose anything else. Heart went to number one with it. I have never heard "Talk to Me" on the radio in my life, but I do hear "These Dreams". It's great.

Just one more way that Rock a Little could have been awesome.

Welcome to The Ledge :wavey:

"Is it cloak and dagger...could it be spring or fall...I walk without a cut through a stain-glassed wall..."

It's almost...well...too Stevie :shrug:

I know it was penned for her but I can't imagine anyone but Ann and Nancy on the song. I love it.

[Johnny Stew]

First, let me say that I would rather Stevie used only songs that she wrote herself. Especially since she has so many that she has not released. But during the making of Rock a Little, when she was accepting other people's songs, she should have chosen "These Dreams" before she chose anything else. Heart went to number one with it. I have never heard "Talk to Me" on the radio in my life, but I do hear "These Dreams". It's great.The story (as told by Nancy and Ann Wilson) is that Stevie felt "These Dreams"... with its references to candles, full moons, mists and princes, etc.... was too much like the kind of gauzy lyrics Stevie herself already writes.

By the way, I still hear "Talk To Me" on the radio here and there, and I still love it after all these years.

[WildInTheWind]

First, let me say that I would rather Stevie used only songs that she wrote herself. Especially since she has so many that she has not released. But during the making of Rock a Little, when she was accepting other people's songs, she should have chosen "These Dreams" before she chose anything else. Heart went to number one with it. I have never heard "Talk to Me" on the radio in my life, but I do hear "These Dreams". It's great.

Just one more way that Rock a Little could have been awesome.

Welcome to the Ledge! IMO These Dreams is a terribly cheesy song. I'm glad Stevie didn't do it. I'm a HUGE Heart fan....but not of that song.

[Livia]

Best screenname EVER, dude. :thumbsup:

Yep!!!! :p I always thought that would be a great name for a band!

[LiquidBlue5000]

First, let me say that I would rather Stevie used only songs that she wrote herself. Especially since she has so many that she has not released. But during the making of Rock a Little, when she was accepting other people's songs, she should have chosen "These Dreams" before she chose anything else. Heart went to number one with it. I have never heard "Talk to Me" on the radio in my life, but I do hear "These Dreams". It's great.

Just one more way that Rock a Little could have been awesome.

I don't think Stevie could have done that song justice at that time... she would have sang it much differently than Nancy Wilson did, and most likely it wouldn't have made it to #1... Ann Wilson's background vocals were also a big reason why that song was a success.. i don't think Lori and Sharon could have harmonized as well on "These Dreams" as Heart did.. just my opinion

[GateandGarden]

First, let me say that I would rather Stevie used only songs that she wrote herself. Especially since she has so many that she has not released. But during the making of Rock a Little, when she was accepting other people's songs, she should have chosen "These Dreams" before she chose anything else. Heart went to number one with it. I have never heard "Talk to Me" on the radio in my life, but I do hear "These Dreams". It's great.

Just one more way that Rock a Little could have been awesome.Welcome to The Ledge! :wavey: About "These Dreams"...I just can't imagine Stevie doing it rather than Heart. I don't know; I guess it's just one of those things.

[glitter_fades]

I want to know why Stevie turned down "Big Balls". AC DC really got lucky.

[Johnny Stew]

I want to know why Stevie turned down "Big Balls".Did Stevie ever really turn down....
Uhm, nevermind.

[amber]

Did Stevie ever really turn down....
Uhm, nevermind.
:laugh: :lol: :laugh:
I hope not. Um, nevermind, squared.

[David]

Welcome to The Ledge :wavey:

"Is it cloak and dagger...could it be spring or fall...I walk without a cut through a stain-glassed wall..."

It's almost...well...too Stevie :shrug:

I know it was penned for her but I can't imagine anyone but Ann and Nancy on the song. I love it.yabut ... remember "Alice" is about Stevie's affair with Bob Dylan when they all went with the Heartbreakers to Australia to perform. That whole experience became "Alice." ("Alice" was Stevie's code name for Bob in the hotel room assignments -- plus Bob used to wear garters ... along with everything else ... that he carried)

[EnchantedSLN]

I want to know why Stevie turned down "Big Balls". AC DC really got lucky.

I heard she seriously contemplated "I Touch Myself" before letting the Divinyls have it. Man, what a missed opportunity.

[MacMan]

I want to know why Stevie turned down "Big Balls". AC DC really got lucky.


ha ha ha...lol... :]

[paleshadow]

First, let me say that I would rather Stevie used only songs that she wrote herself. Especially since she has so many that she has not released. But during the making of Rock a Little, when she was accepting other people's songs, she should have chosen "These Dreams" before she chose anything else. Heart went to number one with it. I have never heard "Talk to Me" on the radio in my life, but I do hear "These Dreams". It's great.

Just one more way that Rock a Little could have been awesome.

I think she turned it down because lyrically the song was everything that people in the music industry criticized her for being at the time. A better question would be why oh why didn't she turn down Sometimes it's a Bitch?

[amber]

I heard she seriously contemplated "I Touch Myself" before letting the Divinyls have it. Man, what a missed opportunity.
:laugh: :lol: :laugh:
That would've fit right in on Wed....

[GardenStateGirlie]

A better question would be why oh why didn't she turn down Sometimes it's a Bitch?

"Well I've run through rainbows and castles of candy..."

Me too, Stevie. Me. Too.

[David]

I heard she seriously contemplated "I Touch Myself" before letting the Divinyls have it. Man, what a missed opportunity.Was that the same period she said "PROBABLY NOT" to Wesley Willis's "My Bulldog's Got Your Bone"?

[GardenStateGirlie]

:laugh: :lol: :laugh:
That would've fit right in on Wed....

She had the actions down but was missing the lyrics. Missed opportunities... :distress:

[glitter_fades]

Was that the same period she said "PROBABLY NOT" to Wesley Willis's "My Bulldog's Got Your Bone"?

That was Tuesday...AFTER the show. :] She was already bored with that one.

[amber]

She had the actions down but was missing the lyrics. Missed opportunities... :distress:
:laugh:
Yes, I was forced to supply the whole scenario in my head.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Was that the same period she said "PROBABLY NOT" to Wesley Willis's "My Bulldog's Got Your Bone"?

No, but it was before she said no to the Blood Hound Gang's The Bad Touch and a duet with Khia singing My Neck, My Back.

[amber]

No, but it was before she said no to the Blood Hound Gang's The Bad Touch and a duet with Khia singing My Neck, My Back.
:lol:
At a little seen private show that same year, she did a rousing rendition of "Dead Skunk in the Middle of the Road".

[GardenStateGirlie]

:laugh:
Yes, I was forced to supply the whole scenario in my head.

Stevie's sorry. Dissapointment would become her middle name.

[glitter_fades]

Stevie's sorry. Dissapointment would become her middle name.

:lol: :lol:

[GardenStateGirlie]

:lol:
At a little seen private show that same year, she did a rousing rendition of "Dead Skunk in the Middle of the Road".

At that same show didn't she rip out an amazing rendition of 90s classic, "Short Tort Man?"

[David]

:lol:
At a little seen private show that same year, she did a rousing rendition of "Dead Skunk in the Middle of the Road".A guy sang that song & accompanied himself on the guitar during the intermission of a production of "On Borrowed Time" at Arcadia High School, in which my sister played the young girl who loves her gramps & tries to save him from Death!!!

I haven't heard that song mentioned since then!!!! Amber, you are spoooooky!!! :shocked:

[amber]

Stevie's sorry. Dissapointment would become her middle name.
:lol: :lol:
My only choice right now is to simultaneously hate and love you. +50, -51!
Step away from the wall, Riss.

[amber]

A guy sang that song & accompanied himself on the guitar during the intermission of a production of "On Borrowed Time" at Arcadia High School, in which my sister played the young girl who loves her gramps & tries to save him from Death!!!

I haven't heard that song mentioned since then!!!! Amber, you are spoooooky!!! :shocked:
uh...
really?
spooky?
That song was somehow a fairly regular occurrence of my childhood. And apparently yours as well. Wait - wasn't that song written in the mid 70's? okay, I guess that makes sense. Gosh, I'm dying to hear it now..."you got your dead rabbit and your dead raccoon, on a moonlit night, you got your dead dog, too.." :woohoo:

[glitter_fades]

uh...
really?
spooky?
That song was somehow a fairly regular occurrence of my childhood. And apparently yours as well. Wait - wasn't that song written in the mid 70's? okay, I guess that makes sense. Gosh, I'm dying to hear it now..."you got your dead rabbit and your dead raccoon, on a moonlit night, you got your dead dog, too.." :woohoo:

Oh, the memories! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[GardenStateGirlie]

:lol: :lol:
My only choice right now is to simultaneously hate and love you. +50, -51!
Step away from the wall, Riss.

So I don't cancel out...I end up with -1?!? FOUL!

[amber]

So I don't cancel out...I end up with -1?!? FOUL!
Yes, you are right. I was unfair. And, after all, it's important, because whoever ends up with the most in my head points wins nothing at the end of whatever! :nod:
rescinded, +50, -49!
But if you ever quote jane again....there will be consequences! It's time for you to look that challenge straight between the eye-eye-eyes!

[vermicious knid]

Thanks for the welcome. This board seems to be more knowledgeable than the one I was at before.
I had downloaded the Sandra Bernhard track “The Women of Rock and Roll” where Sandra talks about her obsession with Stevie. At the end, she sings “These Dreams”. That reminded me of the connection between her and the song. The more acoustic arrangement was great, and it made me think of how it would sound if Stevie were singing it in concert.
remember "Alice" is about Stevie's affair with Bob Dylan when they all went with the Heartbreakers to Australia to perform. That whole experience became "Alice." ("Alice" was Stevie's code name for Bob in the hotel room assignments -- plus Bob used to wear garters ... along with everything else ... that he carried)
Oh my word. Do you remember where you heard this?

[catinthedark]

Oh my word. Do you remember where you heard this?

Was wondering the same. I've never heard this story. Do share.

[Mageboy25]

Just imagine Stevie even attempting to do the high notes of CALL ME LOLOLOL!!!!! Debbie can barely do them now. That song is a BITCH to sing. The American Idol peeps cant do it justice. Thanks God stevie turned it down!

[ontheEdgeof17]

Thanks for the welcome. This board seems to be more knowledgeable than the one I was at before.


Another Welcome to the Board type deal here. :wavey:


.....and I wish Stevie did These Dreams, but Heart knocks it out of the park. :nod:

[WelshWitchPMD]

Was wondering the same. I've never heard this story. Do share.

I've have never heard about this one either. David do tell!

[jannieC]

I've have never heard about this one either. David do tell!

Stevie with Bob Dylan kind of gives me the willies. :shocked:

[GODDESS6]

The story (as told by Nancy and Ann Wilson) is that Stevie felt "These Dreams"... with its references to candles, full moons, mists and princes, etc.... was too much like the kind of gauzy lyrics Stevie herself already writes.

By the way, I still hear "Talk To Me" on the radio here and there, and I still love it after all these years.
i hear it played also johnny quite often here i may say~

[Christopher]

Just imagine Stevie even attempting to do the high notes of CALL ME LOLOLOL!!!!! Debbie can barely do them now. That song is a BITCH to sing. The American Idol peeps cant do it justice. Thanks God stevie turned it down!

I would have much rather Stevie accepted "Call Me" than "These Dreams" (which seems so cloying). She could have sang Call Me back in the day. and since Giorgio Moroder wanted Stevie to sing it as his first choice it was taylored for her voice then. It would have been a great addition to her arsenal of urgent songs ala Stand Back, Edge or even Long Way to Go.

[strandinthewind]

Well, she would have sang Call Me in the era of her vocals on Whenever I Call You Friend, and she SOARS on those. So, I think she could have handled Call Me :cool:

[vermicious knid]

Yes, Debbie Harry wrote the lyrics. Although Giorgio Moroder thought of the original lyrical concept. Here is a quote by Debbie from a book I have:

"His lyrics suffer from his language change and he had a strange name (for the song), "Machine Man" or "Metal Man" or something like that. It had to do with the idea that the guy was a mechanical lover. You know, he was on call, so to speak. . . . . . The music was on the track with no lyrics. . . . . . I went home and wrote the song immediately."

You can bet the song would have been very different if Stevie had written it.

[strandinthewind]

I cannot see La Nicks writing about a male prostitute in late 70's LA - though she must have encountered some on some level :eek:

[ontheEdgeof17]

I cannot see La Nicks writing about a male prostitute in late 70's LA - though she must have encountered some on some level :eek:


:laugh:

"This is a story about a Welsh Prostitute.........Dirk Diggler rings like a bell through the night.."

[gldstwmn]

I think she turned it down because lyrically the song was everything that people in the music industry criticized her for being at the time. A better question would be why oh why didn't she turn down Sometimes it's a Bitch?

I don't think she really had a choice there.

[LiquidBlue5000]

:laugh:

"This is a story about a Welsh Prostitute........


:lol: :p

[amber]

:laugh:

"This is a story about a Welsh Prostitute.........Dirk Diggler rings like a bell through the night.."
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[cliffdweller]

Welcome to the Ledge! IMO These Dreams is a terribly cheesy song. I'm glad Stevie didn't do it. I'm a HUGE Heart fan....but not of that song.

Ditto. :nod: I always skip it. No matter how much Nancy tries to change it up from time to time, I still hate that song.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Ditto. :nod: I always skip it. No matter how much Nancy tries to change it up from time to time, I still hate that song.

it's no "Alone", i'll give you that.. but "These Dreams" is definately a great song,imo.. :nod:

[GateandGarden]

I don't think she really had a choice there.How come she didn't?

[dissention]

I've always heard that she was only offered the music to "Call Me" and that Debbie wrote the lyrics. :shrug:

Diss?

Stevie was never offered Call Me, I don't know where people get that from. She was offered These Dreams and Don't Come Around Here No More. Debs wrote the lyrics to Call Me, so there was no way the song was ever tailored for Stevie's voice, and even back then she never would have been able to sing it as it was eventually sung. Plus, considering the type of artists Moroder worked with, it would have been quite a step in the different direction for him to offer anything to Stevie; she was neither a huge rocker at that time (Call Me was pre-solo) or a poppy, disco artist.

[vermicious knid]

We are saying she was the person that Giorgio originally asked to apply her own lyrics to the music he created. Of course she wouldn't have sung it the way it was eventually sung.

I got that information from Fred Bronson, who wrote The Billboard Book of Number One Hits. He also has a column in Billboard magazine. Where do you get that she was not offered the track?

[dissention]

We are saying she was the person that Giorgio originally asked to apply her own lyrics to the music he created. Of course she wouldn't have sung it the way it was eventually sung.

Yes, and where is the proof that she was ever offered his instrumental track? I've only heard this as a whispered rumour in Stevie fan circles, never something that Moroder or Debbie has ever stated. If anyone has a quote or a source that proves me wrong, I'll gladly admit it. But his offering it to Stevie is a hard pill for me to swallow, especially since he's said over the years that he wanted Blondie to play with it from the get-go and Debbie has said that they wanted to do it instantly because he was a huge disco "star" and they were still "anti-establishment" kids trying to break through. :shrug:

[dissention]

I got that information from Fred Bronson, who wrote The Billboard Book of Number One Hits. He also has a column in Billboard magazine. Where do you get that she was not offered the track?

Got a quote? I'll gladly post some from Debs (and possibly Moroder if I can find them) later tonight.

[paleshadow]

I don't think she really had a choice there.
Yeah, I remember hearing that the record label sort of forced her because Jon Bon Jovi co-wrote it and they thought that would help her exposure or something.

[amber]

Yes, and where is the proof that she was ever offered his instrumental track? I've only heard this as a whispered rumour in Stevie fan circles, :
I saw it as a trivia question on TV, too. Doesn't make it totally true, but makes it more than a rumour whispered in Stevie fan circles... :wavey:

[GateandGarden]

Yeah, I remember hearing that the record label sort of forced her because Jon Bon Jovi co-wrote it and they thought that would help her exposure or something.Oh. That's a pity. I think she woud've been much better off writing something for herself in that case.

[sparky]

:laugh:

"This is a story about a Welsh Prostitute.........Dirk Diggler rings like a bell through the night.."

:lol:

Rings ? How about SWINGS ?

[dissention]

I saw it as a trivia question on TV, too. Doesn't make it totally true, but makes it more than a rumour whispered in Stevie fan circles... :wavey:

Call Me was only a basic synth track from Moroder to begin with (I'll have to look in one of my Blondie books for the article where the band says so, but I believe it's from Discoveries Magazine in '99); there were no guitars, vocals, or lyrics. He gave it to Blondie that way, then they proceeded to put it together. I simply have a hard time believing that Giorgio Moroder slapped together the most basic of synth tracks and then sent it to Stevie, before she was a solo artist and even though she wasn't a pop, disco, or europop artist in the least at that time, in the hopes that she would expand on it musically and also write it to fit the theme of a seventies prostitute. It doesn't make any sense. I've never heard Moroder or Debbie, let alone Stevie, mention that it was offered to her, so who knows.

[amber]

Call Me was only a basic synth track from Moroder to begin with (I'll have to look in one of my Blondie books for the article where the band says so, but I believe it's from Discoveries Magazine in '99); there were no guitars, vocals, or lyrics. He gave it to Blondie that way, then they proceeded to put it together. I simply have a hard time believing that Giorgio Moroder slapped together the most basic of synth tracks and then sent it to Stevie, before she was a solo artist and even though she wasn't a pop, disco, or europop artist in the least at that time, in the hopes that she would expand on it musically and also write it to fit the theme of a seventies prostitute. It doesn't make any sense. I've never heard Moroder or Debbie, let alone Stevie, mention that it was offered to her, so who knows.
That sounds plausible, I see what you're saying. But maybe it was just some marketing guy's bright idea, or something, from the movie angle, or maybe moroder did say something to her about it - I can see him wanting a more popular female artist to think about it even though, like you say, she was only with FM at the time, and not really of the genre. Basically, what you are saying sounds logical to me, but the fact that so many people think it was offered to Stevie in some capacity make me think there may be some sort of truth in that, as well. Like I said, I could see the idea being tossed around from a marketing perspective... :shrug:

[dissention]

That sounds plausible, I see what you're saying. But maybe it was just some marketing guy's bright idea, or something, from the movie angle, or maybe moroder did say something to her about it - I can see him wanting a more popular female artist to think about it even though, like you say, she was only with FM at the time, and not really of the genre. Basically, what you are saying sounds logical to me, but the fact that so many people think it was offered to Stevie in some capacity make me think there may be some sort of truth in that, as well. Like I said, I could see the idea being tossed around from a marketing perspective... :shrug:

But that's my point. From a marketing/promotional perspective, it wouldn't have made sense to approach Stevie because she wasn't, like they say in Behind the Music, a proven solo artist and was only a star within a band that had two other front-people and it wasn't her genre of music. Debbie wasn't considered a member of a band, she was Blondie, unfortunately, and people considered her a solo artist even though it was a band. So, in that context, she was a bigger draw than Stevie because her face and voice was Blondie, whereas Stevie was but one of three until '81.

And people think Sally Field said "You like me, you really, really like me!" when she accepted her second Oscar, but that's not what she said. :laugh:

Also, if it were proven that Stevie was offered Call Me in any capacity, it would disingenuous to say she was offered Call Me. It would be more truthful if they said she was offered the basic synth track to what became Call Me. :laugh:

[amber]

But that's my point. From a marketing/promotional perspective, it wouldn't have made sense to approach Stevie because she wasn't, like they say in Behind the Music, a proven solo artist and was only a star within a band that had two other front-people and it wasn't her genre of music. Debbie wasn't considered a member of a band, she was Blondie, unfortunately, and people considered her a solo artist even though it was a band. So, in that context, she was a bigger draw than Stevie because her face and voice was Blondie, whereas Stevie was but one of three until '81.

And people think Sally Field said "You like me, you really, really like me!" when she accepted her second Oscar, but that's not what she said. :laugh:

Also, if it were proven that Stevie was offered Call Me in any capacity, it would disingenuous to say she was offered Call Me. It would be more truthful if they said she was offered the basic synth track to what became Call Me. :laugh:
Um, I think I disagree with you about the bigger draw, and who was hot, or whatever. FM was still way, way, more famous than blondie, And though stevie was, yes, a part of the band, she was definitely known to be hot. You could be right, I just see it a little differently.

[dissention]

Um, I think I disagree with you about the bigger draw, and who was hot, or whatever.

But of course. You are a Stevie fan, after all. I never expected any less from you. :xoxo:

[amber]

But of course. You are a Stevie fan, after all. I never expected any less from you. :xoxo:
hehehe. Well, they had just had the biggest selling record of all time 3 years before... :shrug: Being a fan or not, that is a fact... :D And they were selling out stadiums. But Blondie does seem the more natural choice for that song. If there's no truth to that rumour, I wonder how it got started? :confused: That's why I think there may be a grain...a smidgeon...

[dissention]

hehehe. Well, they had just had the biggest selling record of all time 3 years before... :shrug: Being a fan or not, that is a fact... :D And they were selling out stadiums. But Blondie does seem the more natural choice for that song. If there's no truth to that rumour, I wonder how it got started? :confused: That's why I think there may be a grain...a smidgeon...

Only to have a bomb of a record and not sell-out stadiums in '79. :laugh:

I've no clue how it got started, but I don't believe it. That's just me.

[amber]

Only to have a bomb of a record and not sell-out stadiums in '79. :laugh:

I've no clue how it got started, but I don't believe it. That's just me.
Yes, four mill is quite the bomb. They were pretty much washed up then. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

How come she didn't?

The suits pretty much insisted she record a couple of songs for Timespace that were written by younger, more popular, emphasis on "pop" artists of that time.

[vermicious knid]

Here is an excerpt from the "Call Me" page in The Billboard Book of Number One Hits:

"Giorgio Moroder, composer of the score for Paul Schrader's American Gigolo, originally sought Stevie Nicks of Fleetwood Mac to sing the title song for the film. When she turned him down, Moroder turned to Deborah Harry of Blondie, who agreed to write the lyrics and record the movie's theme."

Dissention, until you have those quotes you were going to dig up, all you have is your own speculation of why you think it is unlikely the song would have been offered to Stevie.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Um, I think I disagree with you about the bigger draw, and who was hot, or whatever. FM was still way, way, more famous than blondie, And though stevie was, yes, a part of the band, she was definitely known to be hot. You could be right, I just see it a little differently.

I think if you were to ask the average person who Blondie was, they would be able to answer you correctly more so than if you asked them who Stevie ("i think i've heard of him... what does sing again?'') Nicks... However, i think more people would definately know who Fleetwood Mac was more so than Blondie... but i think if you were to ask the average person who Deborah Harry was, they would have no clue... just my 2 cents.. ;)

[amber]

I think if you were to ask the average person who Blondie was, they would be able to answer you correctly more so than if you asked them who Stevie ("i think i've heard of him... what does sing again?'') Nicks... However, i think more people would definately know who Fleetwood Mac was more so than Blondie... but i think if you were to ask the average person who Deborah Harry was, they would have no clue... just my 2 cents.. ;)
I think we were talking about 1980, and I think it was different then. :shrug:

[LiquidBlue5000]

I think we were talking about 1980, and I think it was different then. :shrug:

i know... just saying in general... i would think back in 1980 that Blondie was much more well known than Stevie Nicks, but probably about evenly as well known as FM...

[amber]

i know... just saying in general... i would think back in 1980 that Blondie was much more well known than Stevie Nicks, but probably about evenly as well known as FM...
really? I wouldn't think that at all, but I guess it's possible.

[LiquidBlue5000]

really? I wouldn't think that at all, but I guess it's possible.

really? then what do you think?

[amber]

really? then what do you think?
Ha, well, I already said what I thought. :laugh: I thought Stevie was more marketable and had more name/face/music recognition at the time. :)

[LiquidBlue5000]

Ha, well, I already said what I thought. :laugh: I thought Stevie was more marketable and had more name/face/music recognition at the time. :)

Here's where i disagree... Blondie had several big hits (and crossover hits) at the time that were constantly being played on the radio (and still are), such as Call Me, Heart Of Glass, One Way Or Another, etc.. Stevie really only had a couple of hits with Fleetwood Mac at that time.. "Dreams" and "Sara", and to a lesser extent "Rhiannon"... "Landslide" was never released as a single, nor was "Gold Dust Woman".. so, because Debbie Harry was the lead singer of Blondie, and for all intents and purposes WAS Blondie, she was obviously much more of a driving force in the music industry as a quasi-solo artist in 1980 than Stevie was (being only one of 3 lead singers of a group)... As far as being more marketable, i would call it an even draw... both were strikingly beautiful blondes and could attract many fans just based on their looks alone.. but i definately think Debbie had more music recognition in 1980..

[amber]

Here's where i disagree... Blondie had several big hits (and crossover hits) at the time that were constantly being played on the radio (and still are), such as Call Me, Heart Of Glass, One Way Or Another, etc.. Stevie really only had a couple of hits with Fleetwood Mac at that time.. "Dreams" and "Sara", and to a lesser extent "Rhiannon"... "Landslide" was never released as a single, nor was "Gold Dust Woman".. so, because Debbie Harry was the lead singer of Blondie, and for all intents and purposes WAS Blondie, she was obviously much more of a driving force in the music industry as a quasi-solo artist in 1980 than Stevie was (being only one of 3 lead singers of a group)... As far as being more marketable, i would call it an even draw... both were strikingly beautiful blondes and could attract many fans just based on their looks alone.. but i definately think Debbie had more music recognition in 1980..
Really? Okay, then. Possible. :shrug: Still am not sure if I can subscribe, though. :) It'd be nice to hear someone's opinion who was, uh, old enough in 1980 to tell us the feel of it. :nod:

[dissention]

Here is an excerpt from the "Call Me" page in The Billboard Book of Number One Hits:

"Giorgio Moroder, composer of the score for Paul Schrader's American Gigolo, originally sought Stevie Nicks of Fleetwood Mac to sing the title song for the film. When she turned him down, Moroder turned to Deborah Harry of Blondie, who agreed to write the lyrics and record the movie's theme."

Dissention, until you have those quotes you were going to dig up, all you have is your own speculation of why you think it is unlikely the song would have been offered to Stevie.

With all due respect, all you have is the speculation of Mr. Bronson. ;)

I haven't looked online for any quotes yet, but I found this quote from Frank Infante in "Blondie: From Punk To Present" which would support my "speculation" that if Stevie was offered anything, all she was offered was a basic synth track. And I don't believe that ever happened and neither Nicks, Harry, Moroder has said that it did.

"Moroder had this basic synth track, Debbie had the vocal thing- I did the guitar part that goes 'duddle-a-dah, duddle-a-dah. All of a sudden, the song took on a whole new thing."

[dissention]

Here's where i disagree... Blondie had several big hits (and crossover hits) at the time that were constantly being played on the radio (and still are), such as Call Me, Heart Of Glass, One Way Or Another, etc.. Stevie really only had a couple of hits with Fleetwood Mac at that time.. "Dreams" and "Sara", and to a lesser extent "Rhiannon"... "Landslide" was never released as a single, nor was "Gold Dust Woman".. so, because Debbie Harry was the lead singer of Blondie, and for all intents and purposes WAS Blondie, she was obviously much more of a driving force in the music industry as a quasi-solo artist in 1980 than Stevie was (being only one of 3 lead singers of a group)... As far as being more marketable, i would call it an even draw... both were strikingly beautiful blondes and could attract many fans just based on their looks alone.. but i definately think Debbie had more music recognition in 1980..

:nod: Exactly my point. Debbie had more face recognition alone because she was considered by the public to be Blondie. It wasn't a band to them, it was Debbie. Anyone remember the "Blondie Is A Group" buttons? :laugh: Not to mention the fact that Stevie was a C-List celebrity in Europe (even as a solo artist) compared to Debs.

[strandinthewind]

:nod: Exactly my point. Debbie had more face recognition alone because she was considered by the public to be Blondie. It wasn't a band to them, it was Debbie. Anyone remember the "Blondie Is A Group" buttons? :laugh: Not to mention the fact that Stevie was a C-List celebrity in Europe (even as a solo artist) compared to Debs.

But La Nicks' voice at that time could have nailed even La Harry's version :nod: which is my only point :cool:

[dissention]

But La Nicks' voice at that time could have nailed even La Harry's version :nod: which is my only point :cool:

Then you're absolutely certifiable if you think she could have nailed that song. Said with much love of course. :xoxo:

[amber]

:nod: Exactly my point. Debbie had more face recognition alone because she was considered by the public to be Blondie. It wasn't a band to them, it was Debbie. Anyone remember the "Blondie Is A Group" buttons? :laugh: Not to mention the fact that Stevie was a C-List celebrity in Europe (even as a solo artist) compared to Debs.
If you keep saying that, I'll probably believe it. Soon I'll realize that FM did not sell billions of albums, and that actually Blondie did. And the fact that Stevie had so much publicity with the articles, the grammy's, and the relative media saturation still didn't mean that anybody recognized her. I? have seen the light, I? have been so, so wrong! Wrong! :laugh: Stevie who? Nobody in their right mind would possibly have offered her to do a song for a soundtrack!

[dissention]

If you keep saying that, I'll probably believe it. Soon I'll realize that FM did not sell billions of albums, and that actually Blondie did.

That's the key, dear. Fleetwood Mac sold lots of records at that time, not Stevie Nicks. And neither Blondie nor Fleetwood Mac sold "billions."

And the fact that Stevie had so much publicity with the articles, the grammy's, and the relative media saturation still didn't mean that anybody recognized her. I? have seen the light, I? have been so, so wrong! Wrong! :laugh: Stevie who? Nobody in their right mind would possibly have offered her to do a song for a soundtrack!

Precisely.

Again, if you want to argue that Stevie was a proven star outside the confines of her band, go ahead. But it's an argument that can't be won. She shared the spotlight with two of her other bandmates, while Debbie was treated as the star by the public and the media. Am I saying that Stevie wasn't recognizable? No, that would be idiotic. She was a big star. But more recognizable at that time than Debbie was? I don't think so. Not until she went solo.

[amber]

That's the key, dear. Fleetwood Mac sold lots of records at that time, not Stevie Nicks. And neither Blondie nor Fleetwood Mac sold "billions."



Precisely.

Again, if you want to argue that Stevie was a proven star outside the confines of her band, go ahead. But it's an argument that can't be won. She shared the spotlight with two of her other bandmates, while Debbie was treated as the star by the public and the media. Am I saying that Stevie wasn't recognizable? No, that would be idiotic. She was a big star. But more recognizable at that time than Debbie was? I don't think so. Not until she went solo.
If Debbie was treated as the star, FM was still more famous then that, and Stevie was the main star, I think she got the bulk of the attention. But, okay. :shrug: You could be right. Although, how you took me saying "billions" literally, makes me question everything you say... :laugh:

[dissention]

Although, how you took me saying "billions" literally, makes me question everything you say... :laugh:

I didn't, I was being a hardass. :laugh:

[amber]

I didn't, I was being a hardass. :laugh:
how charming, indeed. :laugh: You're pissing on my love of languagical exaggeration! You're stifling my imagination! You're debbie downering my pontification!!!

[gldstwmn]

Really? Okay, then. Possible. :shrug: Still am not sure if I can subscribe, though. :) It'd be nice to hear someone's opinion who was, uh, old enough in 1980 to tell us the feel of it. :nod:

I remember hearing Stevie on the radio singing Gold with John Stewart a lot around the summer of '79 and going to a party at a friends house when their parents were away and listening to Parallel Lines on the turntable.
Also Sara brings back memories of the beach and people listening to that song on their radios. It was everywhere.

[amber]

I remember hearing Stevie on the radio singing Gold with Joh Stewart a lot around the summer of '79 and going to a party at a friends house when their parents were away and listening to Parallel Lines on the turntable.
Now there's some real evidence. I imagine younger, cooler people did listen to more blondie... :nod: :D More recognizable to the general public, though?

[dissention]

I remember hearing Stevie on the radio singing Gold with Joh Stewart a lot around the summer of '79 and going to a party at a friends house when their parents were away and listening to Parallel Lines on the turntable.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, beats listening to 11:59 and Hanging On the Telephone on vinyl. I get squealy just thinking about it. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Now there's some real evidence. I imagine younger, cooler people did listen to more blondie... :nod: :D More recognizable to the general public, though?

I had a friend who was from South Africa and he and his parents lived in the more affluent part of town. Our little gang used to cruise around in his parents black Buick LeSabre and of course we all used to fit in it because in '79 the damn thing was a boat. :laugh: That is where I remember hearing Stevie's ethereal vocal on Gold and it got played a lot on the radio. At this point Fleetwood Mac was HUGE.
I lived on the east coast, where Blondie broke first. They came out of the club scene in NY but for the time period in question, well always really, I would have to say that Stevie was the bigger star.

[amber]

I had a friend who was from South Africa and he and his parents lived in the more affluent part of town. Our little gang used to cruise around in his parents black Buick LeSabre and of course we all used to fit in it because in '79 the damn thing was a boat. :laugh: That is where I remember hearing Stevie's ethereal vocal on Gold and it got played a lot on the radio. At this point Fleetwood Mac was HUGE.
I lived on the east coast, where Blondie broke first. They came out of the club scene in NY but for the time period in question, well always really, I would have to say that Stevie was the bigger star.
:laugh:
Cool story. I remember hearing Gold a lot, too, cruising around in my mom's crappy giant ford, and...uh...okay, I was 5, but still...I heard Mac songs a lot, rarely Blondie songs, but I do remember hearing OWOA a fair bit. But then, I was on the west coast, and the radio and stuff was probably diff.

[glitter_fades]

If Debbie was treated as the star, FM was still more famous then that, and Stevie was the main star, I think she got the bulk of the attention.


I was a young adult in 1980 and Blondie was high profile. Most people thought Debby was Blondie. That irked some of the guys in the band. Fleetwood Mac was also huge and high profile then. Stevie wasn't so much. She wasn't the main star. The band was the star. People who weren't fans before Stevie went solo never believe me when I say that. It's true. Even when she first went solo she wasn't that big. It wasn't until MTV and the post Mirage/Wild Heart era that Stevie became more a household name. She was never bigger than Blondie in their heyday. Fleetwood Mac was but never Stevie alone.

[xdreamsunwindx]

As far as the whole Stevie/Debbie thing goes..

Deborah Harry is the Marilyn Monroe of rock music. She brought class, beauty, and grace to the rawness of rock. It showed that a girl didn't have to man it up to be respected as an artist. She and Blondie brought disco, rap, reggae, and punk into the popular music scene, and will always be remembered for that. She's a pop culture icon. Just how many rock singers have had their likeness interpreted on silkscreen by Andy Warhol? I mean, you know you're the **** when Andy Warhol digs you and wants to make your face look all mod and colorful. Debbie's the epitome of a pop star. She had the looks, the voice, and the personality to captivate men and women alike. People may not know who Debbie Harry is, but they know Blondie. Not the band, but Harry's persona.

Stevie, on the other hand, while also held highly influential, is hardly what one would consider a pop culture icon. Fleetwood Mac? Probably. Stevie solo? Eh. Stevie's a gorgeous woman, and was totally an object of lust for men all over the world for a bit. She's recognized for her witchy look and ethereal lyrics among music fans. But, nowadays, if you asked your average Joe who Stevie Nicks is, chances are, you'll get a "Who's he!?" or something along the lines of that, or, if you get lucky, "Isn't that one of the chicks from Fleetwood Mac?" Now, Fleetwood Mac is a different story. A lot more people will recognize the fact that Stevie's one of the chicks in Fleetwood Mac, but not so much the fact that she's a solo artist, because A) her albums, while the first 3 did pretty well, never matched up to her work with Fleetwood Mac, success-wise, and, B) she's known a lot for her collaborations with Petty, Henley, etc. You're more than likely to hear a Fleetwood Mac song on the radio than a solo Stevie song.

So. In closing? Debbie Harry? Blondie? Pop icons, and instantly recognizable. Fleetwood Mac? Same. But Stevie solo? Eh. Not quite as well-known amongst the average joes. Both women, though, are just plain awesome, and highly adored amongst music fans.

[gldstwmn]

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, beats listening to 11:59 and Hanging On the Telephone on vinyl. I get squealy just thinking about it. :laugh:

It was a Girard turntable with the little light on the end of the stylus and we were just a little high on beer, everyone having a good time listening to the "New Wave" music. Oh, the days. :woohoo: :laugh:

[xdreamsunwindx]

By the way: Stevie turned These Dreams down because that song really sucks.

Ok the end.

[amber]

I was a young adult in 1980 and Blondie was high profile. Most people thought Debby was Blondie. That irked some of the guys in the band. Fleetwood Mac was also huge and high profile then. Stevie wasn't so much. She wasn't the main star. The band was the star. People who weren't fans before Stevie went solo never believe me when I say that. It's true. Even when she first went solo she wasn't that big. It wasn't until MTV and the post Mirage/Wild Heart era that Stevie became more a household name. She was never bigger than Blondie in their heyday. Fleetwood Mac was but never Stevie alone.
Hmmm, so now we have conflicting stories... :laugh: Still, what you say is good evidence for the Blondie side.... :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

It wasn't until MTV and the post Mirage/Wild Heart era that Stevie became more a household name.

I have to disagree. I lived in Albuquerque NM in 1981 and had MTV pretty much from the first day.
They played the daylights out of Tusk and Sara. It was a regular staple.
They also played another little ditty called Stop Draggin' My Heart Around that feautured this cool chic with beads in her hair.
The pinnacle of it all was a video named Gypsy released in 1982. It was played to the point of over-saturation by MTV and radio. If you didn't know who Stevie was then, you were living under a rock.

[glitter_fades]

Hmmm, so now we have conflicting stories... :laugh: Still, what you say is good evidence for the Blondie side.... :wavey:

Since we're talking evidence, I was a college student in Europe in 1981 and I remember Blondie music a lot on the club scene. Fleetwood Mac and Stevie were nowhere as I recall. When I returned to the US later that year I remember the rumblings about FM breaking up. Stevie had her solo thing started. Then all of a sudden the band was in Europe working on Mirage. That was cazy. I just missed them when I came home. :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

By the way: Stevie turned These Dreams down because that song really sucks.

Ok the end.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[amber]

Since we're talking evidence, I was a college student in Europe in 1981 and I remember Blondie music a lot on the club scene. Fleetwood Mac and Stevie were nowhere as I recall. When I returned to the US later that year I remember the rumblings about FM breaking up. Stevie had her solo thing started. Then all of a sudden the band was in Europe working on Mirage. That was cazy. I just missed them when I came home. :laugh:
It has definitely been established that Blondie was bigger in Europe... :wavey:

[amber]

I have to disagree. I lived in Albuquerque NM in 1981 and had MTV pretty much from the first day.
They played the daylights out of Tusk and Sara. It was a regular staple.
They also played another little ditty called Stop Draggin' My Heart Around that feautured this cool chic with beads in her hair.
The pinnacle of it all was a video named Gypsy released in 1982. It was played to the point of over-saturation by MTV and radio. If you didn't know who Stevie was then, you were living under a rock.
Yes!!! Score!!! :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

It has definitely been established that Blondie was bigger in Europe... :wavey:

I agree. The were very big in the UK especially. But I guess the UK Ledgies would have to comment on that.

[glitter_fades]

I have to disagree. I lived in Albuquerque NM in 1981 and had MTV pretty much from the first day.
They played the daylights out of Tusk and Sara. It was a regular staple.
They also played another little ditty called Stop Draggin' My Heart Around that feautured this cool chic with beads in her hair.
The pinnacle of it all was a video named Gypsy released in 1982. It was played to the point of over-saturation by MTV and radio. If you didn't know who Stevie was then, you were living under a rock.

Remember in 1981 hardly anyone had cable or knew much about MTV if they didn't know somebody with cable. By 82/83 things were changing in the cable market and more people saw MTV, but you sure are right about Gypsy. That is the single most important song in her 80's career. The MTV video made Stevie a household name and cemented her 80's image forever. Don't forget that is a Fleetwood Mac item not her solo.

:wavey:

[dissention]

I agree. The were very big in the UK especially. But I guess the UK Ledgies would have to comment on that.

Gawd, they even book their UK gigs a year in advance. :laugh: I remember buying a few copies of NME at the end of '04/early '05 and they had ads for their November '05 UK tour in it. Talk about planning ahead.

I think Blondie is yet another case of the Brits discovering the fabulous stuff before Americans had the brains to catch on. And most shocking to me is that they first broke through in Australia, before the US and UK, with In the Flesh of all songs.

[gldstwmn]

Remember in 1981 hardly anyone had cable or knew much about MTV if they didn't know somebody with cable. By 82/83 things were changing in the cable market and more people saw MTV, but you sure are right about Gypsy. That is the single most important song in her 80's career. The MTV video made Stevie a household name and cemented her 80's image forever. Don't forget that is a Fleetwood Mac item not her solo.

Whenever I Call You Friend peaked at #5 on the pop charts in 1978.

Magnet And Steel hit #8 on the pop charts in 1978.

Gold peaked at #5 on the pop charts in 1979.

Bella Donna hit #1 September 1981.

Stop Draggin' My Heart Around peaked at #3 on the radio charts 7/8/81 quickly followed by Edge Of Seventeen which hit #11.

[gldstwmn]

Gawd, they even book their UK gigs a year in advance. :laugh: I remember buying a few copies of NME at the end of '04/early '05 and they had ads for their November '05 UK tour in it. Talk about planning ahead.

I think Blondie is yet another case of the Brits discovering the fabulous stuff before Americans had the brains to catch on. And most shocking to me is that they first broke through in Australia, before the US and UK, with In the Flesh of all songs.

I love that song. :laugh:

[dissention]

I love that song. :laugh:

Me, too. I love every song on that first album, it's so utterly fabulous. I'm actually listening to Attack of the Giant Ants from it right now. :laugh:

[LiquidBlue5000]

If Debbie was treated as the star, FM was still more famous then that, and Stevie was the main star, I think she got the bulk of the attention. But, okay. :shrug: You could be right. Although, how you took me saying "billions" literally, makes me question everything you say... :laugh:

Stevie wasn't the star of Fleetwood Mac until the Dance... if she were in 1980, then why on Earth did she get so few songs per FM album and decide to bust out into a solo career in 1981?? :confused:

[amber]

Stevie wasn't the star of Fleetwood Mac until the Dance... if she were in 1980, then why on Earth did she get so few songs per FM album and decide to bust out into a solo career in 1981?? :confused:
yeah, okay. but no.

[LiquidBlue5000]

yeah, okay. but no.

no? are you sure??? because i think that's the case... unless i missed something :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

Stevie wasn't the star of Fleetwood Mac until the Dance... if she were in 1980, then why on Earth did she get so few songs per FM album and decide to bust out into a solo career in 1981?? :confused:

Well she did get three on the White Album, four on Rumours, six on Tusk and was busy touring and recording from the time she joined Fleetwood Mac. She simply didn't have any time for it before that. In fact, if I remember correctly weren't some of the Bella Donna sessions recorded during breaks in the Tusk tour?
Remember, Dreams was the only #1 single FM ever had.

[dissention]

Stevie wasn't the star of Fleetwood Mac until the Dance... if she were in 1980, then why on Earth did she get so few songs per FM album and decide to bust out into a solo career in 1981?? :confused:

I don't think anyone was "the star" of Fleetwood Mac, I think Fleetwood Mac and the chemistry between its members was the star. Stevie wasn't, Chris wasn't, Lindsey wasn't, etc. It was all of them combined, in my opinion.

[amber]

no? are you sure??? because i think that's the case... unless i missed something :shrug:
I just think the public viewed her differently than that. But it's fine. IMO, IMO, etc.

[LiquidBlue5000]

I don't think anyone was "the star" of Fleetwood Mac, I think Fleetwood Mac and the chemistry between its members was the star. Stevie wasn't, Chris wasn't, Lindsey wasn't, etc. It was all of them combined, in my opinion.


Agreed! :nod:

[gldstwmn]

no? are you sure??? because i think that's the case... unless i missed something :shrug:

You missed 1975-1997. j/k :laugh:

[dissention]

You missed 1975-1997. j/k :laugh:

Ooh, I love it when you're catty. :laugh:

[LiquidBlue5000]

You missed 1975-1997. j/k :laugh:

She was absolutely the star of the shows during "The Dance" tour in '97.. it was almost embarrassing how the fans reacted to Stevie's songs vs. Christine's and Lindsey's... but in 1980, it was still a tight unit between the three of them.. i think once lindsey left in '87, Stevie became "the star"...

[amber]

She was absolutely the star of the shows during "The Dance" tour in '97.. it was almost embarrassing how the fans reacted to Stevie's songs vs. Christine's and Lindsey's... but in 1980, it was still a tight unit between the three of them.. i think once lindsey left in '87, Stevie became "the star"...
Don't you think they reacted that way because left over from what she had always been to the band? I don't think that adoration of her just suddenly cropped up during the dance...

[gldstwmn]

She was absolutely the star of the shows during "The Dance" tour in '97.. it was almost embarrassing how the fans reacted to Stevie's songs vs. Christine's and Lindsey's... but in 1980, it was still a tight unit between the three of them.. i think once lindsey left in '87, Stevie became "the star"...

None of them would want to admit it but she always got the most attention after say, her first six months in FM.
I think maybe Mick alluded to it a bit in his book.
Actually, I felt the opposite at The Dance. Everyone was glad to see all five of them up there but I will concede that Silver Springs is the crowning moment.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Don't you think they reacted that way because left over from what she had always been to the band? I don't think that adoration of her just suddenly cropped up during the dance...

it didn't.. it started around '87 when Lindsey left... and let's not forget that "Silver Springs" and "Landslide' were making the rounds on the radio stations which further pushed Stevie as "the star" in 1997... those two songs enabled FM to attract a whole new generation of fans, namely because of Stevie's two "new" hit songs for the band... i don't remember "Temporary One" or "Bleed To Love Her" ever being played anywhere...

[amber]

it didn't.. it started around '87 when Lindsey left... and let's not forget that "Silver Springs" and "Landslide' were making the rounds on the radio stations which further pushed Stevie as "the star" in 1997... those two songs enabled FM to attract a whole new generation of fans, namely because of Stevie's two "new" hit songs for the band... i don't remember "Temporary One" or "Bleed To Love Her" ever being played anywhere...
Oh, man, I totally disagree it started around '87. I think it started around "Rhiannon".

[LiquidBlue5000]

Oh, man, I totally disagree it started around '87. I think it started around "Rhiannon".

I don't think she was much of a star at all in 1975... it wasn't until Rumours really... but i'm strickly talking about her being the star of the band... that did not occur until '87 when Lindsey left... i did not say that she suddenly became a star in general in 1987...

[amber]

I don't think she was much of a star at all in 1975... it wasn't until Rumours really... but i'm strickly talking about her being the star of the band... that did not occur until '87 when Lindsey left... i did not say that she suddenly became a star in general in 1987...
yeah...uh, I agree with what GDW said a few posts back. :wavey:

[dissention]

it didn't.. it started around '87 when Lindsey left... and let's not forget that "Silver Springs" and "Landslide' were making the rounds on the radio stations which further pushed Stevie as "the star" in 1997... those two songs enabled FM to attract a whole new generation of fans, namely because of Stevie's two "new" hit songs for the band... i don't remember "Temporary One" or "Bleed To Love Her" ever being played anywhere...

Stevie began to become even more of a joke around the release of The Wild Heart and it turned to self-parody with Rock A Little and, especially, The Other Side of the Mirror. By the time Lindsey left and Behind the Mask/Timespace rolled around, she had just become another old rock star who had seen her day in the eyes of the public. She was a star to her die-hards, not much else. I think the fact that she was in good shape, looked better than she had in years, and had gotten control of her voice made all those old casual fans and the public at large to give her another look during The Dance and go ga-ga over how incredibly well she had matured after so many shaky years. Deservedly so, too.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Stevie began to become even more of a joke around the release of The Wild Heart and it turned to self-parody with Rock A Little and, especially, The Other Side of the Mirror. By the time Lindsey left and Behind the Mask/Timespace rolled around, she had just become another old rock star who had seen her day in the eyes of the public. She was a star to her die-hards, not much else. I think the fact that she was in good shape, looked better than she had in years, and had gotten control of her voice made all those old casual fans and the public at large to give her another look during The Dance and go ga-ga over how incredibly well she had matured after so many shaky years. Deservedly so, too.

It was the combination of a few things.... i think the "Silver Springs" video being played on VH1 and MTV certainly didn't hurt either...

[LiquidBlue5000]

yeah...uh, I agree with what GDW said a few posts back. :wavey:

btw, did u ever see any FM concerts on video before the Dance?? namely during the "Tusk" and "Rumours" era?? just curious...

[amber]

btw, did u ever see any FM concerts on video before the Dance?? namely during the "Tusk" and "Rumours" era?? just curious...
Yeah, why? Wait, do you mean, released on Video, or just, seeing them on video?

[catinthedark]

And once again... I join this thread hours late...

But it's a good one. So I offer my 2 cents...

On Call Me: I tihnk it's totally possible that Stevie was offered the Morodor track (or however you spell his name). Remember, when she was breaking out of FM to go solo, they wanted to make sure she didn't have an airy-fairy type image. they wanted her to ROCK and suond different from Fleetwood Mac. Maybe someone suggested that she try the synth tracks Morodor have? Possible. Very glad Stevie passed.

On Stevie vs. Blondie: Okay. There is no QUESTION that Stevie was huge following the release of Rumours. When the band hit with the White album, there was suddenly tons of interest in the band, and we all know Stevie stood out by far the most. With Rumours, she was more than a household name. She and her love life were all over the gossip columns and star mags. She may not have been the strongest musician in FM, but it was her and her image that people remembered. I don't think "star" value had anything to do with who got how many songs on Tusk. That was an internal band thing. the music industry types were not around during that recroding to say "We want the blond girl who everyone loves most to sing more." So anyone who says Blondie was better known in the early 80s? Mmmkay. I disagree. At the very least, I'd say both Blondie and Stevie were equally stars - both world famous and recognizable to most, save those living under rocks.

Oh - and there's no WAY Stevie only became famous with The Dance. None.

[amber]

On Stevie vs. Blondie: Okay. There is no QUESTION that Stevie was huge following the release of Rumours. When the band hit with the White album, there was suddenly tons of interest in the band, and we all know Stevie stood out by far the most. With Rumours, she was more than a household name. She and her love life were all over the gossip columns and star mags. She may not have been the strongest musician in FM, but it was her and her image that people remembered. I don't think "star" value had anything to do with who got how many songs on Tusk.
Yeah, this seems obvious to me. :shrug: I like your .02! :D

[LiquidBlue5000]

Yeah, why? Wait, do you mean, released on Video, or just, seeing them on video?

just seeing them on video.. i'm guessing you were too young to see them in person in 1980.. anyway, i have a pretty good collection of that stuff and i can tell you that whenever Stevie went to the mic to do a song, she got no bigger a reception than when Christine or Lindsey did... that was not the case obviously in 1997... having said that, going strickly by crowd reaction, you can sorta see how back in 1980 and before the fans adored all 3 equally as a unit, instead of just going ga ga over Stevie because she was "the star"... however, she was always the "diva" and "drama queen" of the band, that's for sure...

[catinthedark]

Yeah, this seems obvious to me. :shrug: I like your .02! :D

:xoxo:

And yer check's in the mail! :laugh:

[amber]

just seeing them on video.. i'm guessing you were too young to see them in person in 1980.. anyway, i have a pretty good collection of that stuff and i can tell you that whenever Stevie went to the mic to do a song, she got no bigger a reception than when Christine or Lindsey did... that was not the case obviously in 1997... having said that, going strickly by crowd reaction, you can sorta see how back in 1980 and before the fans adored all 3 equally as a unit, instead of just going ga ga over Stevie because she was "the star"... however, she was always the "diva" and "drama queen" of the band, that's for sure...
Okay. :shrug: Sorry, again, I just don't agree.

[amber]

:xoxo:

And yer check's in the mail! :laugh:
:lol: :laugh:
"I won, I WON!"

[catinthedark]

just seeing them on video.. i'm guessing you were too young to see them in person in 1980.. anyway, i have a pretty good collection of that stuff and i can tell you that whenever Stevie went to the mic to do a song, she got no bigger a reception than when Christine or Lindsey did... that was not the case obviously in 1997... having said that, going strickly by crowd reaction, you can sorta see how back in 1980 and before the fans adored all 3 equally as a unit, instead of just going ga ga over Stevie because she was "the star"... however, she was always the "diva" and "drama queen" of the band, that's for sure...

Okay. I have to disagree here. I didn't see them live in 1980, but I remember when MTV started up, and when Bella Donna came out. I was all of 10 years old, but when Hold Me played on MTV, I was captivated by Stevie. Cap. Ti. Vated. And you couldn't tear me away from Gypsy. She had a star quality, pure and simple. And L&L and SDMHA were allllllll over radio in '81. Huge.

As for the live show deal - how many people came to shows dressed like Christine and Lindsey? I think starting back in '75 when they started touring, people did give Stevie the greater props. Even Chris and Lindsey have said, when Stevie took to the mic, people screamed and cheered and went completely nuts. They'd never seen anything like it.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Okay. I have to disagree here. I didn't see them live in 1980, but I remember when MTV started up, and when Bella Donna came out. I was all of 10 years old, but when Hold Me played on MTV, I was captivated by Stevie. Cap. Ti. Vated. And you couldn't tear me away from Gypsy. She had a star quality, pure and simple. And L&L and SDMHA were allllllll over radio in '81. Huge.


Well, i agree with you.. but "Hold Me" was in '82, and "Bella Donna" and all those hits came in '81... i'm strickly talking about her "star power" in 1980 and before that... Stevie was big in '81, but she was not quite as big in '80 and certainly not the star of Fleetwood Mac back in the early days..

[catinthedark]

Well, i agree with you.. but "Hold Me" was in '82, and "Bella Donna" and all those hits came in '81... i'm strickly talking about her "star power" in 1980 and before that... Stevie was big in '81, but she was not quite as big in '80 and certainly not the star of Fleetwood Mac back in the early days..

See my above post about Stevie and her star-quotient circa 1977.

She was huge.

[gldstwmn]

Okay. I have to disagree here. I didn't see them live in 1980, but I remember when MTV started up, and when Bella Donna came out. I was all of 10 years old, but when Hold Me played on MTV, I was captivated by Stevie. Cap. Ti. Vated. And you couldn't tear me away from Gypsy. She had a star quality, pure and simple. And L&L and SDMHA were allllllll over radio in '81. Huge.



Oh cripes, I forgot Leather & Lace. :laugh: It hit #6 in October of 1981.

[gldstwmn]

Stevie began to become even more of a joke around the release of The Wild Heart and it turned to self-parody with Rock A Little and, especially, The Other Side of the Mirror. By the time Lindsey left and Behind the Mask/Timespace rolled around, she had just become another old rock star who had seen her day in the eyes of the public.

Interstingly enough, The Other Side Of The Mirror charted higher than Rock A Little.

[dissention]

Interstingly enough, The Other Side Of The Mirror charted higher than Rock A Little.

But it didn't sell as much, did it? In any case, I loathe Rock A Little, so I'll :blob1: for TOSOTM.

[gldstwmn]

Well, i agree with you.. but "Hold Me" was in '82, and "Bella Donna" and all those hits came in '81... i'm strickly talking about her "star power" in 1980 and before that... Stevie was big in '81, but she was not quite as big in '80 and certainly not the star of Fleetwood Mac back in the early days..

She was a huge star by 1980.

[gldstwmn]

But it didn't sell as much, did it? In any case, I loathe Rock A Little, so I'll :blob1: for TOSOTM.

They are both certified platinum. Oddly enough, RAL's certification has not been updated since 1986.

[amber]

They are both certified platinum. Oddly enough, RAL's certification has not been updated since 1986.
Yay!!! I really like both those albums. :cool:

[catinthedark]

They are both certified platinum. Oddly enough, RAL's certification has not been updated since 1986.

I would have guessed RAL would have sold more. It had the staying power (ie. more than one hit) OSOTM lacked.

It was also a better album.

(Ducks!)

[LiquidBlue5000]

I would have guessed RAL would have sold more. It had the staying power (ie. more than one hit) OSOTM lacked.

It was also a better album.

(Ducks!)

don't duck, i agree with you :p

I'm sure RAL sold more copies than TOSOTM... they're both Platinum, but i wonder what the actual sales numbers are... if TOSOTM sold 1.1 million copies, i would venture to say RAL sold about 1.7 million or so :nod:

[glitter_fades]

Stevie began to become even more of a joke around the release of The Wild Heart and it turned to self-parody with Rock A Little and, especially, The Other Side of the Mirror. By the time Lindsey left and Behind the Mask/Timespace rolled around, she had just become another old rock star who had seen her day in the eyes of the public. She was a star to her die-hards, not much else. I think the fact that she was in good shape, looked better than she had in years, and had gotten control of her voice made all those old casual fans and the public at large to give her another look during The Dance and go ga-ga over how incredibly well she had matured after so many shaky years. Deservedly so, too.

That's how it was, but forget about anyone buying it if they didn't follow FM from the beginning to the present. Die-hard Stevie fans will keep saying she was the focul point of the band. She wasn't. If she had been she wouldn't have gone solo. Her career peak was also short lived. From Mirage ala Gypsy to Wild Heart videos and TV appearance her peak was 82/84. It was a quick and sudden fall off after that. I agree with everything else about her rise again after the Dance. People love to see you rise after a big fall and that was a large part of her getting back some respect. She's not selling out any arenas as a solo.

[glitter_fades]

See my above post about Stevie and her star-quotient circa 1977.

She was huge.

I was going to the shows in the 70's and she was not HUGE. She was liked by the male audience for her sex appeal. She was pushed as the star in the media for the same reason. At the concerts she was not more popular than the others. A lot of people didn't even know Stevie Nicks was the girl frontwoman. A lot of people thought Stevie was Lindsey and vice versa because of the common gender mistaken identity of their names. As for the music critics, most of them said Stevie sucked.

[LiquidBlue5000]

That's how it was, but forget about anyone buying it if they didn't follow FM from the beginning to the present. Die-hard Stevie fans will keep saying she was the focul point of the band. She wasn't. If she had been she wouldn't have gone solo. Her career peak was also short lived. From Mirage ala Gypsy to Wild Heart videos and TV appearance is her peak 82/84. It was a quick and sudden fall off after that. I agree with everything else about her rise again after the Dance. People love to see you rise after a big fall and that was a big part of her getting back some respect. She's not selling out any arenas as a solo.

Well said..

Obviously Stevie was feeling a little stiffled and knew she had a pretty loyal fanbase while with FM... Bella Donna sold very well, but mostly because of the hit songs it spawned, not because she had amassed "millions" of fans by 1981, as maybe sales figures might indicate...
no, her true fans are the ones that actually spent money to buy "Street Angel", not "Bella Donna"...

I'm actually a little surprised that Stevie can sell as many tickets as she does as a solo artist after all these years... having seen her at Jones Beach (and many other venues) since 1994, i can tell you that although her shows don't sell out, they do in fact do very well, considering... but to bring it back to Blondie, i have to say that they (Debbie Harry) sell out a show just as well as Stevie does, having seen them (her) several times as well...

[Johnny Stew]

Crawdaddy Magazine, November 1976:
" By the end of the year, (Stevie) was on her way to being heralded as the most vivacious woman in rock. Not bad for less than a year into a new gig."

" If the Buckingham-Nicks addition to Fleetwood Mac was a natural, so was Stevie Nicks' emergence as the new flash fox in rock."

Creem Magazine, July 1977:
"Rock magazines portrayed Stevie as the Farrah Fawcett-Majors of rock'n'roll...."

Atlanta Journal, August 1980:
"But the primary attraction Friday was not the rhythm section trio, who have survived both the ’60s and the ’70s together. It was the hauntingly attractive Miss Nicks. And the picture seekers, local radio personalities, and autograph hounds all seemed to want her attention more than that of any other band member."

I think Stevie was definitely recognizable as an individual, and was considered by many... rightly or wrongly... to be the "star" of Fleetwood Mac, even before her solo career.

[sparky]

but in 1980, it was still a tight unit between the three of them.. i think once lindsey left in '87, Stevie became "the star"...

Hysterically funny. I am certain you didn't hear crowds roar so loud you thought the earth would crack in half at the opening chords of a Rhiannon in 1979. Or witness the stuffed animal offerings that started at the same time. The three of them got equal amounts of attention until everyone found out who Stevie was. About halfway through the first tour she did with them.

[amber]

Crawdaddy Magazine, November 1976:
" By the end of the year, (Stevie) was on her way to being heralded as the most vivacious woman in rock. Not bad for less than a year into a new gig."

" If the Buckingham-Nicks addition to Fleetwood Mac was a natural, so was Stevie Nicks' emergence as the new flash fox in rock."

Creem Magazine, July 1977:
"Rock magazines portrayed Stevie as the Farrah Fawcett-Majors of rock'n'roll...."

Atlanta Journal, August 1980:
"But the primary attraction Friday was not the rhythm section trio, who have survived both the ’60s and the ’70s together. It was the hauntingly attractive Miss Nicks. And the picture seekers, local radio personalities, and autograph hounds all seemed to want her attention more than that of any other band member."

I think Stevie was definitely recognizable as an individual, and was considered by many... rightly or wrongly... to be the "star" of Fleetwood Mac, even before her solo career.

Hysterically funny. I am certain you didn't hear crowds roar so loud you thought the earth would crack in half at the opening chords of a Rhiannon in 1979. Or witness the stuffed animal offerings that started at the same time. The three of them got equal amounts of attention until everyone found out who Stevie was. About halfway through the first tour she did with them.

How do I love thee guys? Let me count the ways. 2 million...3 million. :thumbsup: "Flash Fox"!!! Yeah, I love it!

[strandinthewind]

Hysterically funny. I am certain you didn't hear crowds roar so loud you thought the earth would crack in half at the opening chords of a Rhiannon in 1979. Or witness the stuffed animal offerings that started at the same time. The three of them got equal amounts of attention until everyone found out who Stevie was. About halfway through the first tour she did with them.

Amen - I think people just hate to admit it because La Nicks is less musically talented than MF, JM, CM, and LB - yet she had a musical style and a way about her that drew and draws people in to this day that none of the other four had or have as immensely talented in other ways as they were and are.

[glitter_fades]

Crawdaddy Magazine, November 1976:
" By the end of the year, (Stevie) was on her way to being heralded as the most vivacious woman in rock. Not bad for less than a year into a new gig."

" If the Buckingham-Nicks addition to Fleetwood Mac was a natural, so was Stevie Nicks' emergence as the new flash fox in rock."

Creem Magazine, July 1977:
"Rock magazines portrayed Stevie as the Farrah Fawcett-Majors of rock'n'roll...."

Atlanta Journal, August 1980:
"But the primary attraction Friday was not the rhythm section trio, who have survived both the ’60s and the ’70s together. It was the hauntingly attractive Miss Nicks. And the picture seekers, local radio personalities, and autograph hounds all seemed to want her attention more than that of any other band member."

I think Stevie was definitely recognizable as an individual, and was considered by many... rightly or wrongly... to be the "star" of Fleetwood Mac, even before her solo career.

Were you a fan then or are you using examples from the media in which I said they were trying to push Stevie as a star? I don't deny she was getting press coverage and getting the Rumours cover didn't hurt. That's not the same as saying she was a star with fans in general. If you were a fan then and remember her as the star, I wonder what part of the country you are from because even in her hometown of Phx, AZ, Stevie was not a name until her Dad got a concert venue where she played as a solo artist during the Wild Heart tour to benefit the City of Hope. My friends and I who were FM fans knew Stevie but a lot of us actually thought Stevie was making a mistake going solo. Just because she later became more recognizable doesn't mean she was the star of FM during the 70's. She wasn't. When she got with her solo agent (Azoff the great?) she worked the PR and her image bigtime but FM fans were not necessarily buying into it, either.

[strandinthewind]

Were you a fan then or are you using examples from the media in which I said they were trying to push Stevie as a star? I don't deny she was getting press coverage and getting the Rumours cover didn't hurt. That's not the same as saying she was a star with fans in general. If you were a fan then and remember her as the star, I wonder what part of the country you are from because even in her hometown of Phx, AZ, Stevie was not a name until her Dad got a concert venue where she played as a solo artist during the Wild Heart tour to benefit the City of Hope. My friends and I who were FM fans knew Stevie but a lot of us actually thought Stevie was making a mistake going solo. Just because she later became more recognizable doesn't mean she was the star of FM during the 70's. She wasn't.

I have been a fan since FM FM and I knew then that she was the standout. I can rememeber kids lining up for hours just to get a glimpse of her and my older brother and I would stand in line with hundreds waiting to buy Tusk just because she was on it - though I LOVE CM and LB. I mean even Mick noticed that she was going to be a huge star early on. So, my recollection as a long time fan is that she started to stand out by Rumors, the cover of which she is on :shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

Just because she later became more recognizable doesn't mean she was the star of FM during the 70's. She wasn't.Ok, I'll just disregard everything I've been told by every other fan of the band (and I stress, of the band, not of Stevie) in the 70s.

[MacMan]

I found this paper that was written on Stevie a long time ago and go back and read it ever once in awhile... It's called "Changing Gender Images in Rock and Roll: An Analysis of the Songs and Image of Stevie Nicks"

It's actually rather interesting and gets you thinking about a few things I suppose... And it comes up with a few explaination on why Nicks was/is so popular. It's a long read... but I think its sort of relavent to what a few have brought up about her popularity.

ACJournal (http://www.acjournal.org/holdings/vol2/Iss1/essays/thompson.htm)

And just personally.. I think as a unit Fleetwood Mac was very popular back in the day - and people were there to see them all... But I have a feeling a great number of them were there to see Stevie. If you listen to bootlegs.. to me it seems SN got the most response from the audience... Now I don't know if that's because it was her performing.. Or if it was the songs themselves that went over well along with the way she performed them... I guess you'd have to be back in 1979-80 to get a feel for what it was like... but it sounds like she was the main attraction.

[glitter_fades]

I have been a fan since FM FM and I knew then that she was the standout. I can rememeber kids lining up for hours just to get a glimpse of her and my older brother and I would stand in line with hundreds waiting to buy Tusk just because she was on it - though I LOVE CM and LB. I mean even Mick noticed that she was going to be a huge star early on. So, my recollection as a long time fan is that she started to stand out by Rumors, the cover of which she is on :shrug:

Give it a rest. Mick says all that **** after the fact. Anyone who was not a child in the 70's knows nobody knew Stevie would do well as a solo. Most people thought she would struggle unless she pushed her image and sex appeal, which she did. Nobody is denying she had or has star power. The fact still remains, Stevie was not the star of FM no matter what Mick says to rewriting history and butter his bread. He so obviously played both sides against the middle, for years, when it came to wondering who he needed more, La Nicks or LB...just incase either one took a hike. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Ok, I'll just disregard everything I've been told by every other fan of the band (and I stress, of the band, not of Stevie) in the 70s.

Not to mention the actual words of the band members themselves. Mick noticed it in his book and in the Tusk Japan footage, CM alludes to it. She also indicates that she was okay with Stevie taking the spotlight early on and her being more comfortable and relating better to the rythm section. In his BM, LB indicates that Stevie was a star or something like that because of her looks and great voice. So, I think they all knew it. Again and to be clear, the public's gravitation to her is not a slight on the immense talent of the other four in FM. It is just the way it happened.

[amber]

I found this paper that was written on Stevie a long time ago and go back and read it ever once in awhile... It's called "Changing Gender Images in Rock and Roll: An Analysis of the Songs and Image of Stevie Nicks"

It's actually rather interesting and gets you thinking about a few things I suppose... And it comes up with a few explaination on why Nicks was/is so popular. It's a long read... but I think its sort of relavent to what a few have brought up about her popularity.

ACJournal (http://www.acjournal.org/holdings/vol2/Iss1/essays/thompson.htm)

And just personally.. I think as a unit Fleetwood Mac was very popular back in the day - and people were there to see them all... But I have a feeling a great number of them were there to see Stevie. If you listen to bootlegs.. to me it seems SN got the most response from the audience... Now I don't know if that's because it was her performing.. Or if it was the songs themselves that went over well along with the way she performed them... I guess you'd have to be back in 1979-80 to get a feel for what it was like... but it sounds like she was the main attraction.
Very cool, thank you. And I have the same feeling as you about Stevie. :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Give it a rest. Mick says all that **** after the fact. Anyone who was not a child in the 70's knows nobody knew Stevie would do well as a solo. Most people thought she would struggle unless she pushed her image and sex appeal, which she did. Nobody is denying she had or has star power. The fact still remains, Stevie was not the star of FM no matter what Mick says to rewriting history and butter his bread. He so obviously played both sides against the middle, for years, when it came to wondering who he needed more, La Nicks or LB...just incase either one took a hike. :laugh:

Well, even La Nicks did not know how well she would do as a solo act. But, she had already had success with Whenever I Call You Friend, which was released in 1978 :shrug:

[glitter_fades]

I found this paper that was written on Stevie a long time ago and go back and read it ever once in awhile... It's called "Changing Gender Images in Rock and Roll: An Analysis of the Songs and Image of Stevie Nicks"

It's actually rather interesting and gets you thinking about a few things I suppose... And it comes up with a few explaination on why Nicks was/is so popular. It's a long read... but I think its sort of relavent to what a few have brought up about her popularity.

ACJournal (http://www.acjournal.org/holdings/vol2/Iss1/essays/thompson.htm)

And just personally.. I think as a unit Fleetwood Mac was very popular back in the day - and people were there to see them all... But I have a feeling a great number of them were there to see Stevie. If you listen to bootlegs.. to me it seems SN got the most response from the audience... Now I don't know if that's because it was her performing.. Or if it was the songs themselves that went over well along with the way she performed them... I guess you'd have to be back in 1979-80 to get a feel for what it was like... but it sounds like she was the main attraction.

Fine. Disregard I was there, that I'm a female who understands the appeal of Stevie for her solo fans, that I like her, too. Anything I say will never be accepted because I am not as devoted to her as many here are. I was there going to the concerts and she was not THE STAR no matter how much her later followers want it to be so. The band was always the star. The music was the star. Stevie was just another member of the band and a low profile member until she was sold to the public via the Rumours cover, the interesting or whatever they call it people of the year in '77 or '78 issue of People mag ( my memory is not good) and from the Tusk era media coverage. By Tusk era she was already working with her own agent to get more publicity. She was not liked by critics and a lot of fans could take her or leave her. Her solo fan base is very different and most of the people who visit Internet fan boards are from her solo fan base. :sorry:

[Johnny Stew]

Give it a rest. Mick says all that **** after the fact. Anyone who was not a child in the 70's knows nobody knew Stevie would do well as a solo. Most people thought she would struggle unless she pushed her image and sex appeal, which she did. Nobody is denying she had or has star power. The fact still remains, Stevie was not the star of FM no matter what Mick says to rewriting history and butter his bread.You act as if Mick's the only one who ever discussed the attention Stevie received by the audiences back then. Certainly Christine and Lindsey have discussed it as well.

For instance, Lindsey told Creem, "In some ways, I suppose that I'm not as appreciated by the audience in general as Stevie," and added, "obviously I AM a visible member of the group, but not as much as Stevie, or even Mick."

Mick didn't make that stuff up after the fact, and neither did Stevie's fans. :shrug:

[glitter_fades]

Not to mention the actual words of the band members themselves. Mick noticed it in his book and in the Tusk Japan footage, CM alludes to it. She also indicates that she was okay with Stevie taking the spotlight early on and her being more comfortable and relating better to the rythm section. In his BM, LB indicates that Stevie was a star or something like that because of her looks and great voice. So, I think they all knew it. Again and to be clear, the public's gravitation to her is not a slight on the immense talent of the other four in FM. It is just the way it happened.

You know I'm not going to get into arguments with people trying to recreate history from piecing old quotes together to form their opinions. I was there and I know how it was viewed by the average FM fan. Stevie was just another memeber of the band. Why is it that big a deal, anyway? :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

Fine. Disregard I was there, that I'm a female who understands the appeal of Stevie for her solo fans, that I like her, too. Anything I say will never be accepted because I am not as devoted to her as many here are. I was there going to the concerts and she was not THE STAR no matter how much her later followers want it to be so. The band was always the star. The music was the star. Stevie was just another member of the band and a low profile member until she was sold to the public via the Rumours cover, the interesting or whatever they call it people of the year in '77 or '78 issue of People mag ( my memory is not good) and from the Tusk era media coverage. By Tusk era she was already working with her own agent to get more publicity. She was not liked by critics and a lot of fans could take her or leave her. Her solo fan base is very different and most of the people who visit Internet fan boards are from her solo fan base. :sorry:

I do not think anyone is saying that your experiences are not what you say they were. I think people are just saying they were there as well and they saw it a different way - I was and did - again, I can remember people lining up to buy Tusk solely because she was on it - in that line were women dressed like her - no one was dressed line LB in a kimono or CM - they were dressed like Stevie - to me, that suggests Stevie was the star :shrug: But, maybe it was different where you were.

[glitter_fades]

I do not think anyone is saying that your experiences are not what you say they were. I think people are just saying they were there as well and they saw it a different way - I was and did - again, I can remember people lining up to buy Tusk solely because she was on it - in that line were women dressed like her - no one was dressed line LB in a kimono or CM - they were dressed like Stevie - to me, that suggests Stevie was the star :shrug: But, maybe it was different where you were.

But they are not saying they were there. It's the old recreating history from quotes thing, as usual. ;)

:wavey:

[amber]

Fine. Disregard I was there, that I'm a female who understands the appeal of Stevie for her solo fans, that I like her, too. Anything I say will never be accepted because I am not as devoted to her as many here are. I was there going to the concerts and she was not THE STAR no matter how much her later followers want it to be so. The band was always the star. The music was the star. Stevie was just another member of the band and a low profile member until she was sold to the public via the Rumours cover, the interesting or whatever they call it people of the year in '77 or '78 issue of People mag ( my memory is not good) and from the Tusk era media coverage. By Tusk era she was already working with her own agent to get more publicity. She was not liked by critics and a lot of fans could take her or leave her. Her solo fan base is very different and most of the people who visit Internet fan boards are from her solo fan base. :sorry:
What you say is not being accepted by me not because you are not "devoted" to her, but because the evidence I've seen suggests otherwise. I have taken your opinions into account as someone who was there, but I've also weighed it with other info, Including other people's memories who were around. :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

But they are not saying they were there. It's the old recreating history from quotes thing, as usual. ;)

:wavey:

Well, when CM and LB acknowledge it - it is pretty hard to refute that :laugh:

[glitter_fades]

You act as if Mick's the only one who ever discussed the attention Stevie received by the audiences back then. Certainly Christine and Lindsey have discussed it as well.

For instance, Lindsey told Creem, "In some ways, I suppose that I'm not as appreciated by the audience in general as Stevie," and added, "obviously I AM a visible member of the group, but not as much as Stevie, or even Mick."

Mick didn't make that stuff up after the fact, and neither did Stevie's fans. :shrug:

Whatever. You can get your views from the media if you want. I'm just telling you how it was when I was going to the shows. Disregard if it doesn't fit your views of what happened when you were not there. No hard feelings.

:wavey:

[Johnny Stew]

Fine. Disregard I was there, that I'm a female who understands the appeal of Stevie for her solo fans, that I like her, too. Anything I say will never be accepted because I am not as devoted to her as many here are.I honestly don't care how devoted you are to her or not -- it's just that what you're stating as fact, flies in the face of everything I've ever heard (from fans who were also there in the 70s, and from the bandmembers themselves) and read.

To act as if you're being disregarded because you haven't somehow lived up to an acceptable (and imagined) level of devotion, is completely missing the bigger picture.

I was there going to the concerts and she was not THE STAR no matter how much her later followers want it to be so. The band was always the star. The music was the star.That's certainly your perception, and you're entitled to it -- but that doesn't make it fact.

Stevie was just another member of the band and a low profile member until she was sold to the public via the Rumours cover....Was Stevie sold to the public via the 'Rumours' cover, or was the 'Rumours' cover playing to what the audience was already reacting to?

All the girls who went to Mac shows dressed like Stevie, right after "Rhiannon" hit big in 1976, might want a crack at answering that.

[amber]

Well, when CM and LB acknowledge it - it is pretty hard to refute that :laugh:
:laugh: yeah, I think they were "there" too!!!

[glitter_fades]

All the girls who went to Mac shows dressed like Stevie, right after "Rhiannon" hit big in 1976, might want a crack at answering that.

Please. It was less than the same handful of people who do it now. :rolleyes:

[glitter_fades]

Was Stevie sold to the public via the 'Rumours' cover, or was the 'Rumours' cover playing to what the audience was already reacting to?



What difference does it make how I answer this? You've already made up your mind how it went down.

[Johnny Stew]

What difference does it make how I answer this. You've already made up your mind how it went down.I respect your opinion. I don't disagree with it out of blind devotion to Stevie Nicks (for the record, I couldn't care less how popular she is or was -- I became a Stevie Nicks fan when it was about the most uncool thing imaginable. Her "hip" quotient has never mattered to me one way or the other), but because... again... it flies in the face of everything I've ever read or been told by folks who witnessed it at the time.

And I'm not talking about the media (though why the media would pick Stevie to push, when she allegedly wasn't all that interesting to much of the audience, per your comments, is beyond me), and I'm not talking about the rose-colored views by her die-hard longterm fans. I'm talking about people who were Fleetwood Mac fans. They acknowledge that, while she wasn't the reason THEY bought the albums and went to the shows, she was, regardless, the member who received the biggest reaction from the general audiences, etc.

[LiquidBlue5000]

Hysterically funny. I am certain you didn't hear crowds roar so loud you thought the earth would crack in half at the opening chords of a Rhiannon in 1979. Or witness the stuffed animal offerings that started at the same time. The three of them got equal amounts of attention until everyone found out who Stevie was. About halfway through the first tour she did with them.

I'm so happy i can amuse you... anyway, there is no doubt that Stevie was adored by both men and women and she had amassed alot of fans by the year 1980... However, she was certainly not the hitmaker of the group, nor was she the second hitmaker of the group... For it not have been for the success of Christine and Lindsey songs, the band would not have sold its millions and millions of copies of Rumours, Tusk, and FM... remember, back then it was the MUSIC that sold records, not the "image"...

Yes, Stevie was a star, but she was not the star of the group... would Fleetwood Mac had been the success it was in the late 70's had Stevie Nicks not been in the band? probably not... but I doubt they would have been the success they were without Christine or Lindsey as well... and for anyone to suggest that was the case back in 1980 is just being ignorant...

nowadays, things are very different.. Stevie is the frontwoman, she is the star... that did not happen overnight as many people would like to believe.. but the lack of band activity between the years 1983-1986, added with Stevie's solid solo success during that time, Lindsey leaving the band in 1987, and Stevie's two singles off of "The Dance", Stevie became "the star of Fleetwood Mac".. hell, at this point they might as well be called "Fleetwood Mac featuring Stevie Nicks" :rolleyes:

[Kelly]

Okay. I have to disagree here. I didn't see them live in 1980, but I remember when MTV started up, and when Bella Donna came out. I was all of 10 years old, but when Hold Me played on MTV, I was captivated by Stevie. Cap. Ti. Vated. And you couldn't tear me away from Gypsy. She had a star quality, pure and simple. And L&L and SDMHA were allllllll over radio in '81. Huge.

As for the live show deal - how many people came to shows dressed like Christine and Lindsey? I think starting back in '75 when they started touring, people did give Stevie the greater props. Even Chris and Lindsey have said, when Stevie took to the mic, people screamed and cheered and went completely nuts. They'd never seen anything like it.

Word. Not to mention that Lindsey described his feelings of jealousy at the reaction that Stevie was getting from people..what in 76? He said it bothered him to hear and watch the audience reacting to her..she was "his woman".
This was a big source of the strife between SnL..Stevie becoming more popular, recieving more attention from the media and fans, when LB was the one crafting her songs and this started during the WA tour. A couple of his Tusk songs, IMO,even express his anger at this. "everything you do has been done" and "you're here cause I say so"
Plus in the Tusk Doc...the audience clearly goes nuts for Angel and Christine comments that the only sex symbol in the band is Stevie.

[Kelly]

Whatever. You can get your views from the media if you want. I'm just telling you how it was when I was going to the shows. Disregard if it doesn't fit your views of what happened when you were not there. No hard feelings.

:wavey:

It is interesting how some people get their infor from the media and from what others have told them about the past and when it fits into their "views" of what happened, it is rock solid fact but if it doesn't? Idle gossip passed around by fans who see what they want to see. When it fits their argument, it is accepted unconditionally as fact, when it doesn't fit into what they believe to be the truth, they disregard it as second hand news. That makes no sense to me.
I tend to think that Lindsey felt that Stevie was getting more undeserved attention back then, just from some of the things he has said and written. Perhaps he felt it was all do to her looks and sex appeal than her talent. I do not think she was more of a "star" than Chris, John, LB or Mick but I think some of the band felt she was perceived to be more important or vital or the focal point.

[Highwayman]

I think the deal is that FM and Stevie were big in the rock circles thru the 70's and starting into the 80's. But the disco craze and the punk rock backlash made acts like Blondie more popular. Living thru that, Blondie was indeed more popular than FM in their respective eras.

Looking at FM hits, I think we find that Christine had more hits than SN or LB.

Meanwhile, back on MTV, you couldn't get away from Hold Me, but I almost never saw Gypsy. Stand Back was in heavy rotation, much more so than SDMHA. In 1983-1984, you couldn't get away from If Anyone Falls. But Heart of Glass and Rapture beat all them out for airtime.

I thought Alice was about going to rehab...

[cliffdweller]

As far as the whole Stevie/Debbie thing goes..

Deborah Harry is the Marilyn Monroe of rock music. She brought class, beauty, and grace to the rawness of rock. It showed that a girl didn't have to man it up to be respected as an artist. She and Blondie brought disco, rap, reggae, and punk into the popular music scene, and will always be remembered for that. She's a pop culture icon. Just how many rock singers have had their likeness interpreted on silkscreen by Andy Warhol? I mean, you know you're the **** when Andy Warhol digs you and wants to make your face look all mod and colorful. Debbie's the epitome of a pop star. She had the looks, the voice, and the personality to captivate men and women alike. People may not know who Debbie Harry is, but they know Blondie. Not the band, but Harry's persona.

Stevie, on the other hand, while also held highly influential, is hardly what one would consider a pop culture icon. Fleetwood Mac? Probably. Stevie solo? Eh. Stevie's a gorgeous woman, and was totally an object of lust for men all over the world for a bit. She's recognized for her witchy look and ethereal lyrics among music fans. But, nowadays, if you asked your average Joe who Stevie Nicks is, chances are, you'll get a "Who's he!?" or something along the lines of that, or, if you get lucky, "Isn't that one of the chicks from Fleetwood Mac?" Now, Fleetwood Mac is a different story. A lot more people will recognize the fact that Stevie's one of the chicks in Fleetwood Mac, but not so much the fact that she's a solo artist, because A) her albums, while the first 3 did pretty well, never matched up to her work with Fleetwood Mac, success-wise, and, B) she's known a lot for her collaborations with Petty, Henley, etc. You're more than likely to hear a Fleetwood Mac song on the radio than a solo Stevie song.

So. In closing? Debbie Harry? Blondie? Pop icons, and instantly recognizable. Fleetwood Mac? Same. But Stevie solo? Eh. Not quite as well-known amongst the average joes. Both women, though, are just plain awesome, and highly adored amongst music fans.

(claps hands) done and done. Next subject? :laugh::laugh:

I agree. It's hard for us diehards to accept the fact that Debbie Harry [a.k.a. Blondie :rolleyes:] is much more recognizable as a superstar than Stevie Nicks. And your "Stevie who?" comment made me think about my own best friend who, upon learning the news that I am a huge F.M. fan said, "aren't they like Peter Paul and Mary?" :shocked: She didn't even know F.M. much less Stevie Nicks. And this girl is 28!! I almost lapsed into a convulsion fit when she said that.

She knows who Debbie Harry and Blondie is, but somehow, Fleetwood Mac eludes her. I think it's a generational thing. Blondie is WAAAAAAY hipper with my generation (and the one previous) than Fleetwood Mac. Again, I know it's hard to fathom as we are rabid F.M. superfans but thems the facts.

Now what was this thread about again? :laugh:

[LiquidBlue5000]

Now what was this thread about again? :laugh:

i think it had something to do with Heart?? :shrug: :lol:

[gldstwmn]

Anything I say will never be accepted because I am not as devoted to her as many here are.

No. I just don't agree with your point. :) And you were admittedly in Europe during the last part of the 70's so... :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

You know I'm not going to get into arguments with people trying to recreate history from piecing old quotes together to form their opinions. I was there and I know how it was viewed by the average FM fan. Stevie was just another memeber of the band. Why is it that big a deal, anyway? :shrug:

Well, a lot of us were there too. You weren't there all by yourself. And we remember it differently. It's okay. You're entitled to your opinion.

[SapphireSister]

yabut ... remember "Alice" is about Stevie's affair with Bob Dylan when they all went with the Heartbreakers to Australia to perform. That whole experience became "Alice." ("Alice" was Stevie's code name for Bob in the hotel room assignments -- plus Bob used to wear garters ... along with everything else ... that he carried)

OMG Stevie had an affair with Bob Dylan? How could I have never heard this. I want details please!!! Oh and ewwwwwwwww. Bob Dylan? I wonder if he dressed up like Alice and they "role played" during sex hee hee.

[dissention]

(claps hands) done and done. Next subject? :laugh::laugh:

I agree. It's hard for us diehards to accept the fact that Debbie Harry [a.k.a. Blondie :rolleyes:] is much more recognizable as a superstar than Stevie Nicks. And your "Stevie who?" comment made me think about my own best friend who, upon learning the news that I am a huge F.M. fan said, "aren't they like Peter Paul and Mary?" :shocked: She didn't even know F.M. much less Stevie Nicks. And this girl is 28!! I almost lapsed into a convulsion fit when she said that.

She knows who Debbie Harry and Blondie is, but somehow, Fleetwood Mac eludes her. I think it's a generational thing. Blondie is WAAAAAAY hipper with my generation (and the one previous) than Fleetwood Mac. Again, I know it's hard to fathom as we are rabid F.M. superfans but thems the facts.

Now what was this thread about again? :laugh:

Bravo to you and Kate. :xoxo:

What I find more interesting when it comes to this silly Debbie vs. Stevie thing are their contributions to pop culture and music as a whole, and how they last to this day. I don't think there can be any denying that while Stevie was incredibly popular, she didn't exactly break new ground or leave an impression on music that we're still hearing the effects of today. Kate said it perfectly when she said Debs is an icon. Walk up to someone on the street and mention Blondie, more than likely someone will know the face of who you're talking about and know a song or three because what they brought to the music scene is still being heard today. Nowadays, it's less about who is more popular than it is about who affected music and our culture. I think it says something when one can walk into a Hot Topic in your local mall and purchase a tiny little skirt with Debbie's face and the Blondie logo plastered across the ass. Blondie has become cooler and hipper as the years have worn on and their contributions to the music we hear today are being praised more than ever. Even if Debbie's star faded as Stevie became more famous with the likes of Stop Draggin' and Stand Back, she and her band left a lasting impression that Stevie did not and probably never will.

Though I still find it hard to fathom that a 28 year old doesn't know who Fleetwood Mac is. :laugh:

[cliffdweller]

Though I still find it hard to fathom that a 28 year old doesn't know who Fleetwood Mac is. :laugh:

You and me both. She knows "of" them sorta. I'm sure she's heard a tune here and there on the radio but hadn't a clue who she was listening to. I know, I know, I was shocked. But not too much, I mean, she's one of those indie idiots who thinks that Belle and Sabastian hung the moon. :laugh: Calling my best friend an idiot...imagine what I say about my enemies!? :shocked::laugh:

[PenguinHead]

I want to know why Stevie turned down "Big Balls". AC DC really got lucky.
:] :laugh:

[PenguinHead]

Were you a fan then or are you using examples from the media in which I said they were trying to push Stevie as a star? I don't deny she was getting press coverage and getting the Rumours cover didn't hurt. That's not the same as saying she was a star with fans in general. If you were a fan then and remember her as the star, I wonder what part of the country you are from because even in her hometown of Phx, AZ, Stevie was not a name until her Dad got a concert venue where she played as a solo artist during the Wild Heart tour to benefit the City of Hope. My friends and I who were FM fans knew Stevie but a lot of us actually thought Stevie was making a mistake going solo. Just because she later became more recognizable doesn't mean she was the star of FM during the 70's. She wasn't. When she got with her solo agent (Azoff the great?) she worked the PR and her image bigtime but FM fans were not necessarily buying into it, either.

You're right on about this whole issue of Stevie being the "Star" of the band. No denying that she often got the most attention. But, in terms of the band's internal culture/dynamics, Stevie was just another member. Certainly Chris and Lindsey would not have considered her the star of the band....or put up with Diva behavior.

Stevie didn't join the band to be the star. In the course of history, she has always appeared very humble and grateful about her role in the band. Fleetwood Mac was/is a very delicate democracy.

[skcin]

Though I still find it hard to fathom that a 28 year old doesn't know who Fleetwood Mac is. :laugh:


Try working at a state university & asking 22 year old kids if they know FM. They almost never know who Mac orStevie are until I mention either GYOW, Don't Stop or Stand Back. The songs, they know, but not the artists.

Not sure if they know Blondie - I'll have to try asking that one next time. :)

[PenguinHead]

I think she turned it down because lyrically the song was everything that people in the music industry criticized her for being at the time. A better question would be why oh why didn't she turn down Sometimes it's a Bitch?


True. The lyrics tried too hard to capture the essence of Stevie. It veered too close to characature (how do you spell this word!!??). If she did that song it may have invited a lot of cynicism. Plus, I'm glad there is one less Stevie song that uses the word "DREAMS!."

The weird thing for me is, Bernie Taupin (Elton John's long-time lyricist) wrote that song. He really is one the greatest lyricists of all time.

[dissention]

You and me both. She knows "of" them sorta. I'm sure she's heard a tune here and there on the radio but hadn't a clue who she was listening to. I know, I know, I was shocked. But not too much, I mean, she's one of those indie idiots who thinks that Belle and Sabastian hung the moon. :laugh: Calling my best friend an idiot...imagine what I say about my enemies!? :shocked::laugh:

:shocked: Belle and Sebastian? Good cripes. I have mucho hate. Mucho, mucho hate. :laugh:

I can understand not knowing Stevie because not a whole helluva lot of peeps do these days, but Fleetwood Mac? Nope, sorry. :laugh:

[dissention]

You're right on about this whole issue of Stevie being the "Star" of the band. No denying that she often got the most attention. But, in terms of the band's internal culture/dynamics, Stevie was just another member. Certainly Chris and Lindsey would not have considered her the star of the band....or put up with Diva behavior.

Well, the rest of the band put up with Lindsey's diva behavior. :shrug: :laugh:

[SapphireSister]

Ok on Stevie vs. Debbie - forget about who was the bigger star and pop icon blah blah blah, how about artistically? What are your thoughts on that? To me Stevie is so much more than a star or a pop icon. She is a true artist, gifted performer, vocalist, songwriter, and poet (amongst others). I don't know enough about Debbie to say if the same is true but from what I do know she is not nearly as accomplished in these arenas as SN so screw all the pop icon/name recognition sh*t. There is so much more that really matters to me and this is why Debbie Harry/Blondie will NEVER compare to Stevie in my book.

[PenguinHead]

At that same show didn't she rip out an amazing rendition of 90s classic, "Short Tort Man?"

And then Waddy stepped up for a rare solo vocal and sang "Sit On My Face Miss Stevie Nicks," by The Vapors.

[dissention]

Ok on Stevie vs. Debbie - forget about who was the bigger star and pop icon blah blah blah, how about artistically? What are your thoughts on that? To me Stevie is so much more than a star or a pop icon. She is a true artist, gifted performer, vocalist, songwriter, and poet (amongst others). I don't know enough about Debbie to say if the same is true but from what I do know she is not nearly as accomplished in these arenas as SN so screw all the pop icon/name recognition sh*t. There is so much more that really matters to me and this is why Debbie Harry/Blondie will NEVER compare to Stevie in my book.

:shocked:

If you want a true artist in every sense of the word, look no further than Miss Deborah Harry.

[SapphireSister]

:shocked:

If you want a true artist in every sense of the word, look no further than Miss Deborah Harry.

As I said I don't really know enough about her but I've never known her to be an acclaimed songwriter with a huge collection of material like SN. Is she?

[sparky]

Well, the rest of the band put up with Lindsey's diva behavior. :shrug: :laugh:

No kidding.

[dissention]

As I said I don't really know enough about her but I've never known her to be an acclaimed songwriter with a huge collection of material like SN. Is she?

About as acclaimed as someone with Sister Honey under their belt can be. :laugh: I kid, I kid.

She's got as much material as Nicks, it's just that they're totally different artists musically. Stevie's a little bit of rock with an AC flair, Debbie has encompassed many different genres for most of her career. As I've said on many occasions, the reason I prefer Debbie to Stevie (and Lindsey to Stevie) is because her art has progressed considerably over the course of her career. She does not stick with one type of music and then say "That's good, I won't change anything from now on." She isn't the type of artist who sees what works and then does nothing but that. I respect that and that's the kind of stuff that gives me my kicks. When you look at Debbie's body of work, it's staggering that she's accomplished so much. Not many can claim that they introduced rap music to the world, or that they went from pop to being an acclaimed jazz and improvisational vocalist, etc. She's so brilliant that it's almost alien. Pop in an old Blondie record and it's obvious how before their time they were and how influential they were to music; it's eerie. Stevie's fabulous, but a continually growing artist she's not.

[PenguinHead]

Well, the rest of the band put up with Lindsey's diva behavior. :shrug: :laugh:

They had no other choice there. Who else was going to provide direction, produce them, and bang into shape Stevie's rough demos?

[dissention]

They had no other choice there. Who else was going to provide direction, produce them, and bang into shape Stevie's rough demos?

A fabulous point.

[SapphireSister]

About as acclaimed as someone with Sister Honey under their belt can be. :laugh: I kid, I kid.


There are times I ask myself just how much you really hate Stevie ;)

Thanks for the info on Debbie - never knew that. Still IMO there is no comparision but I don't want this to turn into "who's better" debate. Too tired this morning. Maybe tomorrow :)

[Johnny Stew]

There are times I ask myself just how much you really hate Stevie ;)I sometimes wonder if dissy spends as much time talking about Debbie on Blondie message boards, as he does Stevie on Mac boards. ;)

Thanks for the info on Debbie - never knew that. Still IMO there is no comparision but I don't want this to turn into "who's better" debate. Too tired this morning. Maybe tomorrow :)I give Debbie complete credit for what she did -- she was definitely influential and an important part of the musical landscape. I disagree that she was "more famous" in the US than Stevie though... but that's neither here nor there.

For my own personal tastes, I've never connected to Debbie's lyrics the way I connect with Stevie's. As I've said before, I like her... own a couple albums, have a few stray songs on mix-tapes, etc.... she's just never captured my fancy in any major way.
I can be intellectually impressed by someone's ability to break new ground and try new things, but if their work doesn't touch my heart, then it's not going to have any real impact on me.

[SapphireSister]

I can be intellectually impressed by someone's ability to break new ground and try new things, but if their work doesn't touch my heart, then it's not going to have any real impact on me.

Beautifully stated, I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't feel a heart connection with Debbie and that's what it's all about for me. I wonder if she has a loyal, devoted following like Stevie (look at this place for example) and if her music has impacted people on the same level that Stevie's has? Something tells me not. I mean being innovative and groundbreaking is one thing (which I give Debbie total credit for) but touching people's lives the way Stevie has is a completely different arena.

[cliffdweller]

True. The lyrics tried too hard to capture the essence of Stevie. It veered too close to characature (how do you spell this word!!??). If she did that song it may have invited a lot of cynicism. Plus, I'm glad there is one less Stevie song that uses the word "DREAMS!."

You know, Nancy Wilson addressed this issue, I believe it was in the c.d. sleeve for one of Heart's greatest hits packages. Anyway, Nancy talks about Stevie turning the song down and says something to the effect that musically, it's something Stevie has never done before, so she wasn't really surprised that Stevie rejected it, or something to that effect. Basically she says that it was all wrong musically for Stevie. I've often pondered that comment in trying to figure out exactly what Nancy is talking about. I don't think it's that far a departure from Stevie's usual style, whatever that means :laugh:.

[trackaghost]

Beautifully stated, I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't feel a heart connection with Debbie and that's what it's all about for me. I wonder if she has a loyal, devoted following like Stevie (look at this place for example) and if her music has impacted people on the same level that Stevie's has? Something tells me not. I mean being innovative and groundbreaking is one thing (which I give Debbie total credit for) but touching people's lives the way Stevie has is a completely different arena.

I think Debbie Harry has a very loyal following, probably quite different to Stevie's but just as dedicated.
I have to say though it pains me to see people pitting them against each other as I love them both.

[cliffdweller]

I can understand not knowing Stevie because not a whole helluva lot of peeps do these days, but Fleetwood Mac? Nope, sorry. :laugh:

Hey what can I say? She's had her head up indie rock's ass too long to notice anything else :laugh:.

[dissention]

I wonder if she has a loyal, devoted following like Stevie (look at this place for example) and if her music has impacted people on the same level that Stevie's has? Something tells me not.

Then you'd be wrong.

We once had a thread on here where someone had the audacity to state that no other female artist can touch people like Stevie or get the audience into the palm of her hand like Stevie. That was laughable and still is. You cannot compare how one artist may touch someone to the way another artist touches someone; it's all different. Whereas I might get the dry heaves when listening to When I See You Again, I might get tears in my eyes listening to Blondie's War Child. How can you gauge the way in which someones music touches people? You can't. Stevie has people who dress up like her and go to shows, Debbie has people who dye their hair and dress up like her to attend shows. Big whoop, it means nothing. It's all about the manner in which the music affects you and it isn't exactly sensible to say that one artist can't affect someone like another because everyone's different and responds to music differently. I adore Debbie's work with The Jazz Passengers and find it very affecting and haunting at times. You may listen to it and begin to ralph. :laugh:

[cliffdweller]

I have to say though it pains me to see people pitting them against each other as I love them both.

:nod: Agreed.

[dissention]

There are times I ask myself just how much you really hate Stevie ;)

I don't hate her, I like her. When she's kicking ass, of course. But she's far from my favorite member of the band (that would be Lindsey, and I've been getting into Christine more and more since Say You Will) and I find much of her work to be mediocre. For every great song, she has a bad one, imo.

[SapphireSister]

Then you'd be wrong.

We once had a thread on here where someone had the audacity to state that no other female artist can touch people like Stevie or get the audience into the palm of her hand like Stevie. That was laughable and still is. You cannot compare how one artist may touch someone to the way another artist touches someone; it's all different. Whereas I might get the dry heaves when listening to When I See You Again, I might get tears in my eyes listening to Blondie's War Child. How can you gauge the way in which someones music touches people? You can't. Stevie has people who dress up like her and go to shows, Debbie has people who dye their hair and dress up like her to attend shows. Big whoop, it means nothing. It's all about the manner in which the music affects you and it isn't exactly sensible to say that one artist can't affect someone like another because everyone's different and responds to music differently. I adore Debbie's work with The Jazz Passengers and find it very affecting and haunting at times. You may listen to it and begin to ralph. :laugh:

I totally agree with you. Notice how I said "I wonder if she does.." because I wasn't aware of Debbie having the same type of following that Stevie has. And you couldn't be more correct when you say you can't gauge the way an artist touches people. I'm only going by what I've seen but since I'm not in the Debbie circles I suppose I really can't say.

[SapphireSister]

I don't hate her, I like her. When she's kicking ass, of course. But she's far from my favorite member of the band (that would be Lindsey, and I've been getting into Christine more and more since Say You Will) and I find much of her work to be mediocre. For every great song, she has a bad one, imo.

Well in that case I must say you sure do spend a lot of time discussing someone who you think is "mediocre" and has a large portion of "bad" material lol...Of course I totally respect your opinion and enjoy reading your posts none the less :)

[Johnny Stew]

We once had a thread on here where someone had the audacity to state that no other female artist can touch people like Stevie or get the audience into the palm of her hand like Stevie.But of course fans are going to say stuff like that. Fans of every artist attribute to them talents and abilities of almost mythical proportions. Stevie's fans are no different there.

For example, you stated that Debbie Harry is "brilliant," which is certainly a statement that others might find to be audacious.
We say stuff like that because we're fans, but there will always be those who disagree with it when we do.

[strandinthewind]

About as acclaimed as someone with Sister Honey under their belt can be. :laugh: I kid, I kid.

She's got as much material as Nicks, it's just that they're totally different artists musically. Stevie's a little bit of rock with an AC flair, Debbie has encompassed many different genres for most of her career. As I've said on many occasions, the reason I prefer Debbie to Stevie (and Lindsey to Stevie) is because her art has progressed considerably over the course of her career. She does not stick with one type of music and then say "That's good, I won't change anything from now on." She isn't the type of artist who sees what works and then does nothing but that. I respect that and that's the kind of stuff that gives me my kicks. When you look at Debbie's body of work, it's staggering that she's accomplished so much. Not many can claim that they introduced rap music to the world, or that they went from pop to being an acclaimed jazz and improvisational vocalist, etc. She's so brilliant that it's almost alien. Pop in an old Blondie record and it's obvious how before their time they were and how influential they were to music; it's eerie. Stevie's fabulous, but a continually growing artist she's not.

I have to say I agree that Debbie harry is one of the greater artists there is. I do think though that La Nicks in her own way branched a tiny bit out from 70's rock and roll, which with FM is where she got her start. BD has a lot of country on it and that three part harmony was a different style than FM and purposefully so according to her - she wanted her own sound. Also, B&B has a string section, which to my knowledge was and is not done in rock too often. I think RAL and TOSOTM were conscious attempts to change her style as they do not sound alike nor do they sound like BD, WH, or any FM record. So, while I agree La Nicks is in no way as adventerous as Debbie Harry, she has been somewhat adventerous - though I readily agree she, unlike DH, never wanted to venture too far out of rock and roll which is what she likes most.

[Johnny Stew]

Well in that case I must say you sure do spend a lot of time discussing someone who you think is "mediocre" and has a large portion of "bad" material lol...Of course I totally respect your opinion and enjoy reading your posts none the less :)I (good-naturedly) tease him about that all the time. If he spent as much time talking about Lindsey or Debbie (or anyone) as he does Stevie.... well, there just wouldn't be enough hours in the day! :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

They had no other choice there. Who else was going to provide direction, produce them, and bang into shape Stevie's rough demos?


But, they wre purposefully rude and downright cruel to her. Have you ever seen the Tusk footage that is not in the doc. If I were Stevie I would have cracked both LB abd CM on the head for some of the crap they gave her.

[dissention]

Well in that case I must say you sure do spend a lot of time discussing someone who you think is "mediocre" and has a large portion of "bad" material lol...Of course I totally respect your opinion and enjoy reading your posts none the less :)

What can I say, it's more fun than talking about Carol Ann, a never-to-be-released solo album, a promo CD on eBay that no one should own because it's wrong!!11!!!1!!11, and a supposed affair with Stevie on the Lindsey board. There's more color over here, as much as it may be shocking to hear me say it. :laugh:

[GypsySorcerer]

What can I say, it's more fun than talking about Carol Ann, a never-to-be-released solo album, a promo CD on eBay that no one should own because it's wrong!!11!!!1!!11, and a supposed affair with Stevie on the Lindsey board. There's more color over here, as much as it may be shocking to hear me say it. :laugh:

Don't forget "Lindsey and Kristen are on the verge of divorce." ;)

[dissention]

Don't forget "Lindsey and Kristen are on the verge of divorce." ;)

:laugh:

Or those FABULOUS threads on his house being up for sale as if I give a **** and am going to plunk down $20 mil for it because it might contain some Buckingham Essence in it. :laugh:

I just don't care if he's sleeping with Kristen or Stevie. I.Just.Don't. Whatever floats his boat, more power to him.

[SapphireSister]

though I readily agree she, unlike DH, never wanted to venture too far out of rock and roll which is what she likes most.

I agree as well, but like the old saying goes "why fix it if it aint broke?". Stevie has generally stuck to what works for her and most likely what she feels in heart. There is no reason for her to entirely switch genres or do something completely out of her element. Why should she be anything else other than herself? Trust me I'd rather not see her rapping on her next album :p

[strandinthewind]

Don't forget "Lindsey and Kristen are on the verge of divorce." ;)

and they sold their "dream house" for what reason? :wavey: I mean even to the most ardent non-shipper, that fact is a little hard to swallow without at least thinking there just may be trouble in Shangrila :eek:

[GypsySorcerer]

:laugh:

Or those FABULOUS threads on his house being up for sale as if I give a **** and am going to plunk down $20 mil for it because it might contain some Buckingham Essence in it. :laugh:

I just don't care if he's sleeping with Kristen or Stevie. I.Just.Don't. Whatever floats his boat, more power to him.

I don't care, either. Although I hope Kristen doesn't read any of these message boards. Some of the comments about her and their children are more vicious than anything that's ever been said about Stevie.

[SapphireSister]

What can I say, it's more fun than talking about Carol Ann, a never-to-be-released solo album, a promo CD on eBay that no one should own because it's wrong!!11!!!1!!11, and a supposed affair with Stevie on the Lindsey board. There's more color over here, as much as it may be shocking to hear me say it. :laugh:

Oh you need to just stop this and admit you adore the living sh*t out of her, think she is an absolute Goddess, and love her to death!

[dissention]

I don't care, either. Although I hope Kristen doesn't read any of these message boards. Some of the comments about her and their children are more vicious than anything that's ever been said about Stevie.

I agree with you 100%, per usual, but we must stop it now or we'll invite The Wrath, my love.

[strandinthewind]

I agree with you 100%, per usual, but we must stop it now or we'll invite The Wrath, my love.

Now now - no one likes a hypocrite - I think that if La Nicks read some of the "choice" words you have used to describe her, her feelings just maybe would be as hurt as poor Kristin's feelings. But, I agree, the attacks on Kristin have been merciless and should not be done in public.

[GypsySorcerer]

Now now - no one likes a hypocrite - I think that if La Nicks read some of the "choice" words you have used to describe her, her feelings just maybe would be as hurt as poor Kristin's feelings. But, I agree, the attacks on Kristin have been merciless and should not be done in public.

I think the difference is the comments on Stevie are regarding her career and art. Granted, there have been remarks about her weight, etc., but I don't recall diss making any of those. :wavey:

However, the posts about Kristen have nothing to with her work or public persona. They are personal, and IMO, downright cruel.

[amber]

Granted, there have been remarks about her weight, etc., but I don't recall diss making any of those. :wavey:

.
Then you have a highly selective memory. :wavey:

[GypsySorcerer]

Then you have a highly selective memory. :wavey:

We all know she gained weight and have discussed it. I don't recall his calling her any cruel names, though.

[amber]

We all know she gained weight and have discussed it. I don't recall his calling her any cruel names, though.
Yeah, I guess just the odd comment about her having an ass the size of a Mac Truck. I guess that's not actually a "cruel name". :wavey:

[dissention]

I think the difference is the comments on Stevie are regarding her career and art. Granted, there have been remarks about her weight, etc., but I don't recall diss making any of those. :wavey:

However, the posts about Kristen have nothing to with her work or public persona. They are personal, and IMO, downright cruel.

No, I've made a few tasteless jabs. :nod: But I would never have the audacity to say half the things that people say about Lindsey, his wife, and their marriage. I particularly like how I was once attacked for making critical remarks about Chris Nicks because his daughter might read them, yet things are rarely said when Lindsey's wife and marriage are attacked for no real reason other than because Stevie and Lindsey belong together!1!!11!!!1 Maybe they do, maybe they don't. That's their business.

[amber]

No, I've made a few tasteless jabs. :nod: But I would never have the audacity to say half the things that people say about Lindsey, his wife, and their marriage. I particularly like how I was once attacked for making critical remarks about Chris Nicks because his daughter might read them, yet things are rarely said when Lindsey's wife and marriage are attacked for no real reason other than because Stevie and Lindsey belong together!1!!11!!!1 Maybe they do, maybe they don't. That's their business.
Do you not think Jessica's feelings might be hurt by someone insulting her aunt?

[Johnny Stew]

I particularly like how I was once attacked for making critical remarks about Chris Nicks because his daughter might read them, yet things are rarely said when Lindsey's wife and marriage are attacked for no real reason other than because Stevie and Lindsey belong together!That's not entirely accurate. I once made a tongue-in-cheek joke about Kristen seemingly getting pregnant every time Stevie and Lindsey work together, and Cour read me the riot act like I had just killed a puppy. :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

No, I've made a few tasteless jabs. :nod: But I would never have the audacity to say half the things that people say about Lindsey, his wife, and their marriage. I particularly like how I was once attacked for making critical remarks about Chris Nicks because his daughter might read them, yet things are rarely said when Lindsey's wife and marriage are attacked for no real reason other than because Stevie and Lindsey belong together!1!!11!!!1 Maybe they do, maybe they don't. That's their business.


I agree that no one's kids whould have to read on a message board anything about their parent's personal life - true or not. Yet, I am just as guilty in my own way, though that was a long time ago.

On edit: I do think it is fair game to discuss whether LB and K are getting a divorce. I think though that no name calling should be part of that as it is a sad thing if they do.

[dissention]

We all know she gained weight and have discussed it. I don't recall his calling her any cruel names, though.

I haven't called her any cruel names. At least to my knowledge. I know I once said that her keister was Mack-Truck large, but I obviously wasn't serious. :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

Do you not think Jessica's feelings might be hurt by someone insulting her aunt?If you have concern about Stevie's feelings or the feelings of her relatives, then you're just a mindless Chiffonhead who defends her every fart. ;)

[amber]

I haven't called her any cruel names. At least to my knowledge. I know I once said that her keister was Mack-Truck large, but I obviously wasn't serious. :laugh:
The way you make fun of her many times contains cruel jabs, if not actually cruel names. IMO.

[strandinthewind]

To Dissention's credit and to be fair - we all make little jabs in jest. Dissention just seemingly loves to make them about La Nicks and no one else in FM :laugh: Maybe it is because she is the star :cool: :wavey:

[dissention]

That's not entirely accurate. I once made a tongue-in-cheek joke about Kristen seemingly getting pregnant every time Stevie and Lindsey work together, and Cour read me the riot act like I had just killed a puppy. :shrug:

Really? :laugh:

[amber]

To Dissention's credit and to be fair - we all make little jabs in jest. Dissention just seemingly loves to make them about La Nicks and no one else in FM :laugh: Maybe it is because she is the star :cool: :wavey:
Oh, I'm all for being fair. Which is why I spotted a few hypocritical tendencies...

[dissention]

To Dissention's credit and to be fair - we all make little jabs in jest. Dissention just seemingly loves to make them about La Nicks and no one else in FM :laugh: Maybe it is because she is the star :cool: :wavey:

Oh, c'mon. I love to call Lindsey a whiny little bitch and a spazz! Just last night we were talking about how he probably suffered from the monthly flow more than Stevie and Chris did. :laugh: And you know how I loathe everything that is Mick Fleetwood.

[GypsySorcerer]

Yeah, I guess just the odd comment about her having an ass the size of a Mac Truck. I guess that's not actually a "cruel name". :wavey:

I don't remember that, but yeah, not one of his nicer moments. (One of the few, of course) ;) :D

Regardless, Stevie is a performer, and criticisms of one's looks are usually inevitable. Right or wrong, that's the way it is. The clothes, the hair, the make-up....all part of the whole package.

Anyway, I've seen Kristen called a whore, tramp, bitch, horrible mother, baby-baiter, etc. And of course, she never should be forgiven for breaking up Stevie and Lindsey's torrid love affair during the Dance. :rolleyes:

ON EDIT - I see diss said he was joking on the Mac truck line. So all is well. :wavey:

[Johnny Stew]

Really? :laugh:Oh my, yeah. :shocked:
And here I had thought the humour in the comment was obvious. I mean, it came from ME for Cripe's sake! When do I ever say stuff that's intentionally mean-spirited (well, ok, other than when the topic is Dubya and those intolerant evangelicals. :laugh: )?

Ah well!

[strandinthewind]

Oh, c'mon. I love to call Lindsey a whiny little bitch and a spazz! Just last night we were talking about how he probably suffered from the monthly flow more than Stevie and Chris did. :laugh: And you know how I loathe everything that is Mick Fleetwood.

LMAO - touche' touche'

you are an equal opportunity offender :eek: :laugh:

[dissention]

Oh, I'm all for being fair. Which is why I spotted a few hypocritical tendencies...

:laugh: In yourself, too, right? You can poke fun at Hootchie Spears and her ilk with the rest of us, but Stevie is completely off limits, I suppose.

[amber]

:laugh: In yourself, too, right? You can poke fun at Hootchie Spears and her ilk with the rest of us, but Stevie is completely off limits, I suppose.
That doesn't even make sense. Who cares if I make fun of someone not even related to the band??? :confused:

[GypsySorcerer]

Oh my, yeah. :shocked:
And here I had thought the humour in the comment was obvious. I mean, it came from ME for Cripe's sake! When do I ever say stuff that's intentionally mean-spirited (well, ok, other than when the topic is Dubya and those intolerant evangelicals. :laugh: )?

Ah well!

Come on, Brian. We know you're a vile person who relishes in others' misery. Yep, you're pure evil. ;)

[strandinthewind]

:laugh: In yourself, too, right? You can poke fun at Hootchie Spears and her ilk with the rest of us, but Stevie is completely off limits, I suppose.

Do I have to bring up Paris Hilton as a contributing member of society again :eek:

[GypsySorcerer]

Do I have to bring up Paris Hilton as a contributing member of society again :eek:

Anything but that. :laugh: :wavey:

[amber]

Do I have to bring up Paris Hilton as a contributing member of society again :eek:
Again, that doesn't make sense, as she is not related to the band, and so who cares about making fun of that on this message board? :confused:

[dissention]

That doesn't even make sense. Who cares if I make fun of someone not even related to the band??? :confused:

So, it's alright to poke fun at a celebrity as long as they aren't a member of Fleetwood Mac? :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Again, that doesn't make sense, as she is not related to the band, and so who cares about making fun of that on this message board? :confused:

I thjink it goes to the greater point of making fun of anyone in a cruel manner is not exactly the best thing to do and if I am gonna get on someone for doing it, I need to get ready to take heat for doing it myself regardless of the ridiculed person's relation to FM.

On edit - I think we all do this and most if it pretty innocent and meant to be funny.

[GypsySorcerer]

That doesn't even make sense. Who cares if I make fun of someone not even related to the band??? :confused:

If someone poked fun at Stevie on a Britney message board, would that be okay? I don't understand your point.

[dissention]

Anything but that. :laugh: :wavey:

Have you seen pictures of her at Cannes this past week? She actually looked classy and...demure. :eek:

[amber]

I thjink it goes to the greater point of making fun of anyone in a cruel manner is not exactly the best thing to do and if I am gonna get on someone for doing it, I need to get ready to take heat for doing it myself regardless of the ridiculed person's relation to FM.

On edit - I think we all do this and most if it pretty innocent and meant to be funny.
Well, that's not what I was referring to at all when I said "hypocritical", and I don't care who people make fun of outside this board, all around town, not related to FMac. I mean, I could care, but for the purposes of this discussion it's just really not part of my point at all.

[GypsySorcerer]

I thjink it goes to the greater point of making fun of anyone in a cruel manner is not exactly the best thing to do and if I am gonna get on someone for doing it, I need to get ready to take heat for doing it myself regardless of the ridiculed person's relation to FM.

I agree that we all could be a little more sensitive, especially regarding celebrities. But again, it is to be expected. Paris Hilton is a media whore, so jabs are expected.