Vegas Beauty Beast Vid

[GardenStateGirlie]

I always delved into it with a damn the torpedos attitude - then again, I am large, loud, and busy and often speak that way :lol:

I often picture you sitting in front of the laptop, talking with your hands and saying "puff puff!" in response to a post someone has just made before you take a swig of your cocktail and peck out a reply :laugh: :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

I often picture you sitting in front of the laptop, talking with your hands and saying "puff puff!" in response to a post someone has just made before you take a swig of your cocktail and peck out a reply :laugh: :xoxo:

Not being able to resist, he replies:

well, I am often nude as well :eek: - which prior to the weight loss was just not a pretty sight :laugh:

[GardenStateGirlie]

Not being able to resist, he replies:

well, I am often nude as well :eek: - which prior to the weight loss was just not a pretty sight :laugh:

Oh man...this? is serious :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Oh man...this? is serious :laugh:

puff puff - swig :woohoo:

[dudden22]

She has said Blue Denim is about the color of LB's eyes and that FFG is both about everything that was going on with FM during The Dance and more specifically about LB and that she hopes he appreciates the heaviness of the maybe I fought this long and this hard just to make sure you surviiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive - yea! -- So, I think those two are in the bag for being about LB.

Again I think this is all just a show because that is what the fans obviously want her songs to be about. I think she has had too many life experiences for all her songs to be about lindsey and mick.

[sparky]

Again I think this is all just a show because that is what the fans obviously want her songs to be about. I think she has had too many life experiences for all her songs to be about lindsey and mick.


Not this fan.

If all the great songs she has written (and many of them are referred to as being about, or fantasized by people as being about him) are about Lindsey, then she is an epic martyr, and the main story around which her life has revolved is a world class tragedy. How amazingly sad.

I would hope there are other relationships, other than LB and the horror inducing spider-eating-the-fly visual of Mick, that meant SOMETHING to her in the past 35 YEARS OF HER LIFE. If not, well then thank GOD she met Lindsey, because if she hadn't, then she never would have written a worthwhile song in her life.

It boggles my entire psyche to think that anyone in their right mind would actually sabotage relationships and be purposefully involved in dramas just for the sake of having conflict to write about. As much of a POW as Stevie may be, I don't think she engineers drama and heartache simply to have a source for inspiration. She may be a slightly crazy artiste, but that is self destructive in the extreme, and in my opinion, is a patently ridiculous belief. Were there any truth to it, I would suggest institutionalizing the songwriter in question. She's a little nutty, but she is not a sociopath.

[Kelly]

Not this fan.

If all the great songs she has written (and many of them are referred to as being about, or fantasized by people as being about him) are about Lindsey, then she is an epic martyr, and the main story around which her life has revolved is a world class tragedy. How amazingly sad.

I would hope there are other relationships, other than LB and the horror inducing spider-eating-the-fly visual of Mick, that meant SOMETHING to her in the past 35 YEARS OF HER LIFE. If not, well then thank GOD she met Lindsey, because if she hadn't, then she never would have written a worthwhile song in her life.

It boggles my entire psyche to think that anyone in their right mind would actually sabotage relationships and be purposefully involved in dramas just for the sake of having conflict to write about. As much of a POW as Stevie may be, I don't think she engineers drama and heartache simply to have a source for inspiration. She may be a slightly crazy artiste, but that is self destructive in the extreme, and in my opinion, is a patently ridiculous belief. Were there any truth to it, I would suggest institutionalizing the songwriter in question. She's a little nutty, but she is not a sociopath.

Nah..I don't think Stevie purposely sabotaged her relationship with LB or any man, to have something to write about. People sabotage things subconsciously sometimes. Old fears, betrayal, overwhelming pain and loss could cause some people to ruin things even when they might not want to. (not saying Stevie did that for sure)

"it's all about protection"
"why am I always so intense?"
"her destiny said she was destined to run"
"turn around and see me running"
"come along, lay down and talk to me, tell me all your fear will allow"
"don't be afraid to fight..love is the sweet surprise"

[Kelly]

No she is not. She looks great...very Scarlet O'Haraish. ;) Scene after scene stolen from GWTW. :eek:

Civil War= fighting with one's own people or within the confines of a relationship and destroying each other /everyone around in the process

Climax GWTW= grief over the death of a loved one shakes woman into realizing the person she's constantly running from is her only salvation

Conclusion= "Frankly Stevie I don't give a damn" Mr. Salvation has been tested to the limits too often and has temporarily checked out at the worst possible time.

:nod:


Exactly. Thankfully someone else gets it.

BTW...why does it seem like every time certain songs are being discussed and people express the opinion that they believe LB inspired parts or all of those songs, that others start saying we believe EVERTHING she EVER wrote is about LB? That is so unfair. I think alot of what she wrote contains unresolved feelings, longing for LB but certainnly not everything. I can name six or seven songs without even trying that I believe are about Mick. Others I think are about Joe. Some I think are about Robin. It is a downer on an otherwise interesting discussion to try to insinuate that those who think a large part of her writing is about Lindsey cannot understand that she has had other inspirations. (including men) Some people seem to feel that if Stevie is writing about LB in songs like Edge, SB, BAtB, Sorcerer, Landslide..it somehow diminishes their worth or her worth as a poet. Poets write about what inspires them.....Stevie has flat out said Lindsey inspires her on Jim Ladd. Interesting she also added that she inspires HIM, yet there are still LB fans who will say he stopped writing about her in 1977.
I have to wonder if those same people have taken the time to even listen to the lyrics in many of his GoS songs. (and the VSO harmony vocals he felt compelled to add along with him)
Oh and the comment a few posts back that Stevie intentionally says stuff is about LB to feed the hype? Wow..that is a stretch IMHO.

[xxxmx]

the horror inducing spider-eating-the-fly visual of Mick...

these words, so perfect... the horror...

[xxxmx]

I think alot of what she wrote contains unresolved feelings, longing for LB but certainnly not everything...
It is a downer on an otherwise interesting discussion to try to insinuate that those who think a large part of her writing is about Lindsey cannot understand that she has had other inspirations. (including men)...
Poets write about what inspires them...

when i say that she's always writing about lindsey, i mean for that to say that he's shaped her and shaped a part of how she thinks about and relates to others. we're all affected by the relationships and experiences of the past and i know very few people who claim that those have no current impact on their lives. the person i am today is what it is because of all of those decisions and people and places and whatnot that affected me. if i (had any talent and was able to sit down and) write poetry/lyrics, that's all going to come out... even if i'm not sitting down and trying to coax it out.

poets certainly do write about what inspires them, what is more inspiring than one's own feelings/memories/self?

[strandinthewind]

Nah..I don't think Stevie purposely sabotaged her relationship with LB or any man, to have something to write about. . . .

I think she did not end anything on purpose. I think like we all have experienced, things don't workd out. I think she did, however, eventually blame her choice of career and the obligations and guilt from not fulfilling them (she keeps many employed :shrug: ) which resulted in the TOSOTM and SA songs and then when we get to Sweet Girl, we see her resolving herself to it. In the end, I think she has a nack (sp.?) for harping on the destitute feeling of lost love and people seem to get it and that is no matter which love she is talking about.

[strandinthewind]

Again I think this is all just a show because that is what the fans obviously want her songs to be about. I think she has had too many life experiences for all her songs to be about lindsey and mick.

Well, MF was really only in the songs written before Tusk. I do not think she has written one about him after then other than in a general way when writing about her experiences in FM.

Also, she was very, very specific in interviews about BD and LB does have beautiful blue eyes and she knew she would one day work her way back to him, which she did at her own initiation in the Twisted project - she initiated that healing process :shrug:

I guess I am one that thinks she and LB have had a continued romance, so it is not at all strange to me that his continued presence in her life and vice versa is a source for material. When I say continued romance, I am uncertain on what level it is continued and though the rumors abound, we can be sure by their own admission it is at least on stage and they have a freindship now, when they had neither for years. I mean anyone who saw them sing SG would be hard pressed to deny the palpable emotion to this day no matter its presence at every show and no matter how rote the actual display was :shrug: Same thing for Silver Springs in 97. It broke my heart everytime I saw both. But, no matter that continued source of inspiration - clearly she has had other loves who are subjects of songs - Henley was in L&L (though it was written for WJ and JFC) and The Highwayman - I think Joe Walsh was for Long Way to Go (which she says he was), Two Kinds of Love, and many others.

Finally, Stevie writes about the tragedy she has experienced in songs like Street Angel.

so, not everything is about LB or MF, though many were. I just do not think it is that big of a deal that she likes to write about LB and he likes to write about her.

[David]

I don't think you'd get any argument there. I know of no one who believes 100% of Stevie's work to be about Lindsey.But I did get an argument there. I said that some people think that every Stevie Nicks song is about Lindsey, & that to write about nothing for 30 years but Lindsey might be a sign of some serious neurosis. You countered with an example of a writer who -- like millions of other writers -- wrote about a single woman throughout his life (but did not confine all his work to that topic).
When did this become about me squelching your beliefs and acting as your enemy? My reply was one sentence which simply brought up an example of a great poet who spent a good part of his life writing about a love affair and its fallout.You're being disingenuous. Your reply was specifically meant to pop a hole in something I said -- only I never said what your reply was implying I said.
I found it contextually relevant because Petrarch's love sonnets were indeed all about one relationship.It may have been contextually relevant to the thread, sodascouts, but in its polemic, it was an unfair & inaccurate representation of something I said. You ascribed a particular stance to me that I did not -- or would not -- take. In fact, I think a lot of Stevie Nicks songs are about Lindsey, & I have never said or thought otherwise. Am I being impugned because I think only, say, 15 Stevie Nicks songs are about Lindsey instead of, oh, 30? or 35? or some other number?
I did not realize you were confining your argument to debunking the beliefs of a hypothetical group consisting of people who see Lindsey in songs about forgotten chimpanzees and bombs in the desert.Why hypothetical? Because you yourself have never encountered anyone who thought all of Stevie's work is ultimately about Lindsey? If you haven't met 'em, they ain't there? And regardless of the question as to whether they really are there, my statements were clearly characterizing them, not the thousands of us who think Stevie wrote 15 songs or 30 songs or 72 songs about Lindsey. It's as if you meant to paint me as someone who doesn't believe that any of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey.
So, to set the record straight, I have no wish to be your enemy.HA! You're filled with disgust & revulsion at the thought of me.
I treat you no differently than I would treat anyone else who made that statement.Again, who made what statement? That writers can't possibly write about a lover across decades? I never made such a statement!
I always thought you were one who enjoyed a good debate, and I'm frankly puzzled as to what you seem to feel I am attacking you when I cast no personal aspersions. I simply stated a fact.Disingenuousness again. Sure, you stated a fact, but one that was couched in attitude & designed specifically to puncture a point that I really didn't make & to ascribe a stance to me that I have never taken.
You can contest its applicability but to say I am not granting you your beliefs because I dared to bring up a possible weakness in your argument? Surprising.I contest its applicability only because it implies I believe X when I don't, & never really said I did.
Unless this is about something else? I can think of only one time when I haven't "allowed" you a fiction and, as you recall, that was a different issue entirely.I believe it's about something else. You probably have profound hatred for anything I say or do. Maybe I rankle you, the way I rankle several other fans who ascribe all sorts of monstrous motives to me.

[glitter_fades]

I just do not think it is that big of a deal that she likes to write about LB and he likes to write about her.

Thanks for saying this. I don't think it's a big deal either. I've hinted around that perhaps some of Stevie's biggest fans would be let down if they thought she wrote about one person or relationship too often. I wonder the same about die-hard LB fans. I hope it's not true. I think it could be one reason SN and LB are not willing to discuss every song or certain songs about one another. It's also likely too painful, and certainly was at the time some songs were written, to deal with those subjects out in the open all the time. IMO there are many hints and clues surrounding their song inspirations and meanings, given on both sides, when it comes to understanding the nearly 40 year conversation they've had called their music career. I don't think the unfolding of which has been by design as some mention. Nobody could or would endure the things they have just to sell records or maintain fame. I don't believe the hints and clues in their songwriting about one another exist for the benefit of the audience either, or to make people more interested in the band because of the drama surrounding their relationship. On the contrary, I think both have tried to deflect as much speculation as possible due to the heavy emotional turmoil each has suffered about everyone knowing and judging them on every aspect of their dysfunctional relationship. A lot of the meaning in their work is visible to me as an older life-long fan and comes from things I've seen unfolding across a long period of time. I see some meaningful clues in their work being meant only for each other to understand. Meaning also comes through to me from certain things not discussed by them as much as what is literally said in interviews, liner notes or in the lyrics themselves. In the end it doesn't matter to me what, why, or who their songs are about because it wouldn't change my enjoyment of their music by finding out something was different than I thought. Because the subject of their relationship is such a hot button issue, and I don't think it should be, wouldn't it be sad if the reason they may not have resolved all turmoil surrounding them, if any still exists, is because they can't be open or honest with themselves, each other, or their fans for fear of altering opinions about their musical and personal legacy in a negative way with their own fans, nevermind how it would look overall in the public eye?

ON EDIT: Just to clarify, this doesn't mean every song they've ever written is only about each other. That's ridiculous. I'm only referring to the songs which everyone knows are and the several songs many feel might be about their relationship but we're afraid to discuss becasue the authors don't want to discuss it either. lol :eek:

[glitter_fades]

You're being disingenuous. Your reply was specifically meant to pop a hole in something I said -- only I never said what your reply was implying I said.

It may have been contextually relevant to the thread, sodascouts, but in its polemic, it was an unfair & inaccurate representation of something I said. You ascribed a particular stance to me that I did not -- or would not -- take. In fact, I think a lot of Stevie Nicks songs are about Lindsey, & I have never said or thought otherwise.

Why hypothetical? Because you yourself have never encountered anyone who thought all of Stevie's work is ultimately about Lindsey? If you haven't met 'em, they ain't there? And regardless of the question as to whether they really are there, my statements were clearly characterizing them, not the thousands of us who think Stevie wrote 15 songs or 30 songs or 72 songs about Lindsey.

It's as if you meant to paint me as someone who doesn't believe that any of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey.

Sure, you stated a fact, but one that was couched in attitude & designed specifically to puncture a point that I really didn't make & to ascribe a stance to me that I have never taken. I contest its applicability only because it implies I believe X when I don't, & never really said I did.


Can I borrow some of these quotes for my arguments with Strand? :D

[strandinthewind]

Can I borrow some of these quotes for my arguments with Strand? :D


and just when we were getting along :p :p :p :p :p :p

[glitter_fades]

and just when we were getting along :p :p :p :p :p :p

We are, dear. We are. I promise. :xoxo: First thing I said in my other post was "Thanks." :D

[strandinthewind]

We are, dear. We are. I promise. :xoxo: First thing I said in my other post was "Thanks." :D

I know - I was being tongue in cheek :angel: We actually agree far more than we disagree - though it takes some discussion to get there :laugh:

[GardenStateGirlie]

Can I borrow some of these quotes for my arguments with Strand? :D

If he ever starts to chap your ass ever so slightly, just remember...he's sitting there in his birthday suit :laugh:

You crazy kids, you!

[strandinthewind]

If he ever starts to chap your ass ever so slightly, just remember...he's sitting there in his birthday suit :laugh:

You crazy kids, you!

drinking and smoking a la Margot Channing. Actually, to full appreciate me, you MUST lope from bar to bar with me in Manhattan or some other city all while I am espousing my theories while in my own head I think people are listening :laugh: Of course, we tried in Vegas and thenyou would have seen. BTW - I usually belt a few show tunes out as well :eek:

[amber]

drinking and smoking a la Margot Channing. Actually, to full appreciate me, you MUST lope from bar to bar with me in Manhattan or some other city all while I am espousing my theories while in my own head I think people are listening :laugh: Of course, we tried in Vegas and thenyou would have seen. BTW - I usually belt a few show tunes out as well :eek:
showtunes? Check. And, actually, belting is really an understatement.... :laugh: :xoxo:

[sodascouts]

But I did get an argument there. I said that some people think that every Stevie Nicks song is about Lindsey, & that to write about nothing for 30 years but Lindsey might be a sign of some serious neurosis. You countered with an example of a writer who -- like millions of other writers -- wrote about a single woman throughout his life (but did not confine all his work to that topic).
You're being disingenuous. Your reply was specifically meant to pop a hole in something I said -- only I never said what your reply was implying I said.
It may have been contextually relevant to the thread, sodascouts, but in its polemic, it was an unfair & inaccurate representation of something I said. You ascribed a particular stance to me that I did not -- or would not -- take.

Then why not simply rebut my statement and move on? Why make it personal?



In fact, I think a lot of Stevie Nicks songs are about Lindsey, & I have never said or thought otherwise. Am I being impugned because I think only, say, 15 Stevie Nicks songs are about Lindsey instead of, oh, 30? or 35? or some other number?

Who is impugning you, David? I still fail to see what's so hideously insulting about my reply. Again, it would have been sufficient to address what you felt was unfair rather than add all of this extra drama.


Why hypothetical? Because you yourself have never encountered anyone who thought all of Stevie's work is ultimately about Lindsey? If you haven't met 'em, they ain't there? And regardless of the question as to whether they really are there, my statements were clearly characterizing them, not the thousands of us who think Stevie wrote 15 songs or 30 songs or 72 songs about Lindsey.

There might be someone somewhere who believes it in the face of logic. Can you name anyone, though? It is true that theoretically they can exist. There could also be people who believe Stevie IS Lindsey and uses a complex combination of futuristic holographic devices and mind control beams to create the illusion that there are two people performing. Would I craft an argument to prove these people wrong? No, because that would be a waste of my time. But if you wish to do so, more power to ya. Forgive me for assuming otherwise.

It's as if you meant to paint me as someone who doesn't believe that any of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey.

I had no wish to deliberately and maliciously misrepresent your beliefs. I apologize if I appeared to do so, to you and to everyone else who got that impression from my reply.



HA! You're filled with disgust & revulsion at the thought of me.

Are you serious? If so, please calm yourself and point me to the post that I made that gave you this impression. Surely it is not the Petrarch one?!


Again, who made what statement? That writers can't possibly write about a lover across decades? I never made such a statement!
Disingenuousness again. Sure, you stated a fact, but one that was couched in attitude & designed specifically to puncture a point that I really didn't make & to ascribe a stance to me that I have never taken.
I contest its applicability only because it implies I believe X when I don't, & never really said I did.

OK, your point is made. I still fail to see the need for the personal part of this post.

I believe it's about something else. You probably have profound hatred for anything I say or do.

At this point I can only imagine you are trying to attribute opinions to me which are gross exaggerations in order to exact some kind of "revenge" for what you feel I have attributed falsely to you. Otherwise, I again urge you to calm yourself and reread my posts with a clear mind. Either way, someone is taking things too seriously!

Maybe I rankle you, the way I rankle several other fans who ascribe all sorts of monstrous motives to me.

I admit this has rankled me somewhat, and you have rankled me occasionally in the past. I'm sure I have done the same to you. We both have our own failings/weaknesses. In fact, I imagine some would probably accuse us of even sharing a few of the same character flaws. Overall, however, I do find your posts interesting and most of the time enjoyable. I consider you an intelligent man and enjoy going back and forth with you. No, I'll never be someone who feels like they need to apologize for disagreeing with you or laud your every post. But I imagine too much of that would get boring anyway. On the other hand, if I see something you've said I find particularly insightful, I will not discount it because it's "posted by that force of evil known as David, Nancy's nemesis." Indeed you may even find me expressing agreement. :: GASP ::

I hope we can put this silliness behind us and return to our regularly scheduled program now.

[Dark Angel]

Stevie allegedly has had numerous loves & look at all the experiences she's had: playing for presidents, getting junked, traveling, hanging with the jet-set, having millions of worshippers, making millions of dollars, etc. I think her songs reflect all of that, not just Lindsey Buckingham.

I completely agree with this, and basically all the points David has made in this thread. :nod: I just don't understand why some fans seem to think almost all of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey, when god knows she's had more than enough love affairs to write about, and has. :shrug: Stevie once said she would have given up her entire career for Joe Walsh, yet according to some fans, most of her songs are about LB. Whatever. :rolleyes:
Personally, I think she's had too many relationships/friendships to write her songs about one single person.

[David]

Then why not simply rebut my statement and move on? Why make it personal? Who is impugning you, David? I still fail to see what's so hideously insulting about my reply. Again, it would have been sufficient to address what you felt was unfair rather than add all of this extra drama.My dramatics have got ridiculous, Nancy. I feel as if I had just totally whigged out, like a hissy fit gets me. It may sound loony, but periodically it's like the Troll Demon gets a hold of me & makes me act like an 8-year-old. I'm going to go watch "Spinal Tap: Special Edition."

[strandinthewind]

showtunes? Check. And, actually, belting is really an understatement.... :laugh: :xoxo:


WHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :angel:

[amber]

WHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :angel:
I don't think I've ever, ever, heard anyone singing that loud... :laugh: :xoxo:
Ah, I'll nevah live to see the beauty, the beauty, that same, same, etc... :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

I don't think I've ever, ever, heard anyone singing that loud... :laugh: :xoxo:
Ah, I'll nevah live to see the beauty, the beauty, that same, same, etc... :wavey:


and that was not even my full stage voice :eek: Who needs a mic. when ya got my pipes :cool:

[dissention]

HA! You're filled with disgust & revulsion at the thought of me.


Only because I'm so insanely jealous of your wit that it practically makes me vomit. :xoxo:

[amber]

and that was not even my full stage voice :eek: Who needs a mic. when ya got my pipes :cool:
Actually I can hear you from here... :cool:

[dissention]

Thanks for saying this. I don't think it's a big deal either. I've hinted around that perhaps some of Stevie's biggest fans would be let down if they thought she wrote about one person or relationship too often. I wonder the same about die-hard LB fans. I hope it's not true. I think it could be one reason SN and LB are not willing to discuss every song or certain songs about one another. It's also likely too painful, and certainly was at the time some songs were written, to deal with those subjects out in the open all the time. IMO there are many hints and clues surrounding their song inspirations and meanings, given on both sides, when it comes to understanding the nearly 40 year conversation they've had called their music career. I don't think the unfolding of which has been by design as some mention. Nobody could or would endure the things they have just to sell records or maintain fame. I don't believe the hints and clues in their songwriting about one another exist for the benefit of the audience either, or to make people more interested in the band because of the drama surrounding their relationship. On the contrary, I think both have tried to deflect as much speculation as possible due to the heavy emotional turmoil each has suffered about everyone knowing and judging them on every aspect of their dysfunctional relationship. A lot of the meaning in their work is visible to me as an older life-long fan and comes from things I've seen unfolding across a long period of time. I see some meaningful clues in their work being meant only for each other to understand. Meaning also comes through to me from certain things not discussed by them as much as what is literally said in interviews, liner notes or in the lyrics themselves. In the end it doesn't matter to me what, why, or who their songs are about because it wouldn't change my enjoyment of their music by finding out something was different than I thought. Because the subject of their relationship is such a hot button issue, and I don't think it should be, wouldn't it be sad if the reason they may not have resolved all turmoil surrounding them, if any still exists, is because they can't be open or honest with themselves, each other, or their fans for fear of altering opinions about their musical and personal legacy in a negative way with their own fans, nevermind how it would look overall in the public eye?

ON EDIT: Just to clarify, this doesn't mean every song they've ever written is only about each other. That's ridiculous. I'm only referring to the songs which everyone knows are and the several songs many feel might be about their relationship but we're afraid to discuss becasue the authors don't want to discuss it either. lol :eek:

While it may not be popular opinion, I think writing about the same thing or relationship over and over like that is a sign of laziness and someone's inability (or unwillingness) to be brave enough to seek out other forms of inspiration. That doesn't mean that writing about the same thing over and over for years results in bad work, either; that's not what I'm saying at all. I just find someone's art more interesting if I know that they're actively trying to progress with it. On the other hand, the fact that Stevie may or may not be writing about Lindsey in such and such a song is something that I don't really want to know about. When I'm listening to something, I want to relate my own experiences and thoughts to it, not listen to it and think "This person is talking about her ex-lover, Mick Fleetwood." That results in boring listening on my end.

[xxxmx]

amber, you're not so innocent yourself...

"why don't you TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE ME HOOOOOOOOOOME"

ms. 'stand back' in the middle of the ritzy shops... :xoxo:

[amber]

amber, you're not so innocent yourself...

"why don't you TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE ME HOOOOOOOOOOME"

ms. 'stand back' in the middle of the ritzy shops... :xoxo:
:laugh:
wait - "ritzy shops"? okay.
Well, you know it had to be done, we were standing in that stupid shop just to hear the rest of the song - I thought you would do it, but at the last moment, I sensed perhaps you were not going to...I had to take control of the situation.... :D :shrug: It should've been a duet, though, I say....and isn't it more like:
TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEEMEHOOOOOME?

[glitter_fades]

On the other hand, the fact that Stevie may or may not be writing about Lindsey in such and such a song is something that I don't really want to know about. When I'm listening to something, I want to relate my own experiences and thoughts to it, not listen to it and think "This person is talking about her ex-lover, Mick Fleetwood." That results in boring listening on my end.

I hear ya. Who do we blame for all the blah blah on who the songs are about? The invisible girl? The lunatic? Bwana? :D

[dissention]

Bwana? :D

:laugh:

I blame the woman who saw how much interest and publicity her relationships drew in the seventies and continues to sell her music through the very interest that it draws to this day. Stevie is no idiot, she knows how to work it.

[glitter_fades]

:laugh:

Stevie is no idiot, she knows how to work it.

Damn right! She was working it in Vegas...in spades. :laugh: :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Damn right! She was working it in Vegas...in spades. :laugh: :wavey:

and gloriously so :D

[Rumour0323]

If he ever starts to chap your ass ever so slightly, just remember...he's sitting there in his birthday suit :laugh:

You crazy kids, you!


That is hysterical. I always pictured Jason in a fabulous smoking jacket...guess that went out with the cigarettes.

[cliffdweller]

You've both made some good points - it's all of the above, imo.


I think so too. In fact, I think a lot of Stevie's songs address multiple issues rather than being about one thing or person. It's almost as if her songs, at times, are stream-of-consciousness narratives that involve several different emotions, feelings, people, places, etc all at once....

Beauty and The Beast is a good example. It seems to be about a hodgepodge of different things: the movie, the televison show, Mick, Fleetwood Mac, and her own personal demons. My feeling when I hear this song is that it is about her failed love affairs due to her devotion to Fleetwood Mac and the sacrifices she had to make, sacrifices that perhaps chipped away at her heart little by little through the years. Maybe she feels like the beast because, in the end, she had to axe relationships that meant a lot ot her. Hell, Fleetwood Mac could also be the beast in this scenario. But whoever said that Stevie is conveying her own personal demons in this song live, I think, is right on the money. It appears that this song is very personal for her, and affects her in a way that no other song she has written does, not even Sara.

Sorry I came in on this particular topic late....Geeze!! I didn't know how LOOOOONG this thread had gotten!

[strandinthewind]

That is hysterical. I always pictured Jason in a fabulous smoking jacket...guess that went out with the cigarettes.


I have not one, but two smoking jackets and can FINALLY fit in them again :laugh: As for the smoking - I am back on them only to vow to quit again :laugh:

[cliffdweller]

What's untrue about love created and held in a lasting relationship without pain or strife?

Because this doesn't exist. I consider myself to be happily married but there has been, and will continue to be much pain and strife along the road. It's part and parcel imo.

[cliffdweller]

I honestly think she toyed with Lindsey. They were so young when they got together and once she had a taste of what was out there, Lindsey got boring. Don was fascinating, hot, mega-successful and she couldn't resist the temptation. I think she was dumbstruck she'd hit the big time and Lindsey was the small town boy she left to be with him.

I think this is over-simplifying a bit, don't you? They had mega issues and it wasn't just borne from schoolgirl/schoolboy boredom.

I think she actually fell in love hard with Mick and with Joe. Those are the two men I think who broke her heart. I think she was and probably is capable of love. Capable of sustaining a relationship, I think is doubtful, but possible. She's definitely capable of love and knows about it. You can't write those songs and not feel something. I think she's also in love with the idea of love, too.

I agree with this.

For her to nurture it would mean giving up her jetset rock and roll lifestyle and I don't think she could do that for the long haul.

It's not just the lifestyle...it's her absolute love for what she does, her career as a songwriter and how that fulfills her in a way that no relationship has, or ever could. She gets off on her high priestess role, writing songs of joy and misery in her ivory tower, being fairy godmother and inspiration to countless droves of ardent fans. So with that in mind, I don't begrudge her choosing a career over a successful relationship for one nanosecond.

[Johnny Stew]

I honestly think she toyed with Lindsey. They were so young when they got together and once she had a taste of what was out there, Lindsey got boring. Don was fascinating, hot, mega-successful and she couldn't resist the temptation. I think she was dumbstruck she'd hit the big time and Lindsey was the small town boy she left to be with him.I've always suspected that breaking up with Lindsey was actually a ploy to "wake him up."
She's often talked about how she played second fiddle to his guitar, and sometimes felt like he loved it more than he loved her.

So I wouldn't be at all surprised if Stevie broke up with Lindsey secretly hoping that he'd see her with other men, having fun, etc.... then "realize what he had," and make some grand, romantic gesture to win back her love. And I'll bet she was shattered when he didn't even try.

[cliffdweller]

Besides, it's irrelevant what an artist has to say about his own work, in terms of interpretation -- just as irrelevant as trying to pin down the authorial intention of the poet from the perspective of a third party (which we all are).

Hmmmm, do you come from the T.S. Elliott school of formalism and new criticism? :laugh:

I tend to agree, but only sometimes. And it depends on the artist. Authorial intention can be quite useful when you're working with an artist who is not trying to dick you around and wants to convey a message that will not become misconstrued. Stevie dicks us around...but in a good way. She's trying to hold on to a little mystery, and I have to say, I can't blame her. I don't want to know everything that's in her bag of tricks, makes for interesting conversation and speculation. Also, not knowing the full truth let's me spin these songs in a way that are personal for me. I gain much inspiration, comfort, solace, etc. from many of her songs. I like my own radical interpretation of the text ;).

[Johnny Stew]

Also, not knowing the full truth let's me spin these songs in a way that are personal for me. I gain much inspiration, comfort, solace, etc. from many of her songs. I like my own radical interpretation of the text ;).Hell, I just realized about two years ago, that she wasn't writing all these songs about my life and romantic relationships. ;) :laugh:

[sodascouts]

So I wouldn't be at all surprised if Stevie broke up with Lindsey secretly hoping that he'd see her with other men, having fun, etc.... then "realize what he had," and make some grand, romantic gesture to win back her love. And I'll bet she was shattered when he didn't even try.

How do you know he didn't even try? I imagine he tried quite hard, in more ways than one. Remember Chris' comment that for weeks after Stevie left Lindsey, he didn't see other women. And if Stevie thought having sex with another man was a great way to fix up her relationship with Lindsey, she's less intelligent than I gave her credit for being. Poor Lindsey was the one who was dumped, and this kind of description still makes it his fault. Sorry, but I find it totally unfair.

[strandinthewind]

How do you know he didn't even try? I imagine he tried quite hard, in more ways than one. Remember Chris' comment that for weeks after Stevie left Lindsey, he didn't see other women. And if Stevie thought having sex with another man was a great way to fix up her relationship with Lindsey, she's less intelligent than I gave her credit for being. Poor Lindsey was the one who was dumped, and this kind of description still makes it his fault. Sorry, but I find it totally unfair.


Well, she dumped him for a reason :shrug: Rarely is a breakup entirely the fault of one person :shrug: Finally, right or wrong, being seen with someone new is a sure fire way to make any feelings that might remain in an ex come to the surface :eek:

[cliffdweller]

Hell, I just realized about two years ago, that she wasn't writing all these songs about my life and romantic relationships. ;) :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh: Exactly! It's funny because when I started to become a diehard Stevie/Fleetwood Mac fan I was going through a lot of personal stuff that resonated in Stevie's music and dramatic relationship woes with L.B. I was in my mid-twenties, had been with a guy for 6 years, struggling to make it work amidst our two very demanding lives and contrary personalities, he was even in a band and worked as a sound engineer :eek: And he was a perfectionist/control freak in every sense of the word where that was concerened, just like someone else we all know and love :laugh:...Anyway, I just connected with Stevie's music, and the connection has not been broken even though I'm in a totally different place personally and emotionally than I was five years ago. Oh geeze, this has gotten confessional :rolleyes:...

[strandinthewind]

:laugh: :laugh: Exactly! It's funny because when I started to become a diehard Stevie/Fleetwood Mac fan I was going through a lot of personal stuff that resonated in Stevie's music and dramatic relationship woes with L.B. I was in my mid-twenties, had been with a guy for 6 years, struggling to make it work amidst our two very demanding lives and contrary personalities, he was even in a band and worked as a sound engineer :eek: And he was a perfectionist/control freak in every sense of the word where that was concerened, just like someone else we all know and love :laugh:...Anyway, I just connected with Stevie's music, and the connection has not been broken even though I'm in a totally different place personally and emotionally than I was five years ago. Oh geeze, this has gotten confessional :rolleyes:...

You are better off now!

Please submit your Medical Health Insurance Card for appropriate billing :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[sodascouts]

Authorial intention can be quite useful when you're working with an artist who is not trying to dick you around and wants to convey a message that will not become misconstrued.

Good point. I've always struggled with authorial intent in literary interpretation because I know, if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd want the reader to "get" what I was trying to say. Therefore, I give it a primacy that not everyone feels it should have. It seems the trend is to minimize or even discount authorial intent - at least in Renaissance studies, where Greenblatt and his New Historicist followers have declared that the author is little more than a helpless transmitter of societal values.

As in most things, a happy medium is best. One should be concerned with authorial intent but not be so obsessed with it that one cannot see anything else. In the end, we can only guess at authorial intent through contextual clues anyway, because even when explicitly stated in some fashion it can still obscure as much as it reveals. We all know this from Stevie!

[cliffdweller]

You are better off now!

Please submit your Medical Health Insurance Card for appropriate billing :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

:laugh::laugh: Thanks for being my armchair psychiatrist! It's like being analyzed by Suzanne Sugarbaker :laugh:!

In the words of the almight one with regard to sex: "it's okay, but it's nothing like somebody putting a crown on your head or shopping."

Love that line.

[strandinthewind]

:laugh::laugh: Thanks for being my armchair psychiatrist! It's like being analyzed by Suzanne Sugarbaker :laugh:!

In the words of the almight one with regard to sex: "it's okay, but it's nothing like somebody putting a crown on your head or shopping."

Love that line.


Lord Child - I love me some Suzanne Sugarbaker :laugh:

[cliffdweller]

Good point. I've always struggled with authorial intent in literary interpretation because I know, if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd want the reader to "get" what I was trying to say. Therefore, I give it a primacy that not everyone feels it should have. It seems the trend is to minimize or even discount authorial intent - at least in Renaissance studies, where Greenblatt and New Historicist his followers have declared that the author is little more than a helpless transmitter of societal values.

As in most things, a happy medium is best.

Totally agree here. I'm also very interested in Reader/Response theory. I think the relationship between reader and text is something that has yet to be fully explored and appreciated. What does the reader get out of the text? What does the text mean for him/her? I mean we could get mired down in criticism and pontification, but at the end of the day, how does this text affect the reader? Interesting stuff. Now I'll take my dork glasses off...:laugh:

[lagringader&r]

I think this is over-simplifying a bit, don't you? They had mega issues and it wasn't just borne from schoolgirl/schoolboy boredom.

I don't think it's over-simplifying it. I think it may be under-simplifying it. They did have mega issues but on a personal level, which is what a relationship is, Stevie was and is a party girl. She likes to have fun and be the life of the party. Lindsey was and seems like he still is a whining, brooding crybaby who didn't like to socialize and took himself and everything else in life way too seriously. He sat around with his guitar and refused to take an outside job and granted, that paid off for him in The Long Run (had to stick that Eagles reference in there), but can't have been much fun for Stevie, or any woman, to be around. Compare the two men. There's Lindsey and the above description. Then there's Don Henley who was gorgeous, in one of the most successful bands of all time, a partier just like her and willing to leave the house without being dragged out. :laugh: I don't blame her for choosing Don because that's where her mind was at the time. She had already felt betrayed by Lindsey when he toured with the Everly Brothers. She had hit the big time and was ready to do some celebrating. With Lindsey? I don't think so. I think she let the success go to her head, too. All of a sudden, she had her choice in men and they were all successful and in demand. Lindsey really was the hometown boy. He wasn't some great rock icon to her. I still feel like there's a lot of party left in Stevie and I still feel there's a lot of brooding left in Lindsey. For him, maybe the relationship was fine. For her, it was probably pretty boring and depressing.

[Johnny Stew]

How do you know he didn't even try?Well, I don't know... I said it was just a suspicion

Various comments made by Lindsey and Stevie in interviews, make it sound as if Lindsey was hurt by the break up, rightfully stewed over it for a while, and then moved on with his life.
I don't recall Stevie or Lindsey ever saying that he tried to win her back and failed... though that's not to say it didn't happen.

Again, I was speculating.

And if Stevie thought having sex with another man was a great way to fix up her relationship with Lindsey, she's less intelligent than I gave her credit for being.How do we know Stevie had sex with ANYONE when she and Lindsey first broke up? She certainly did later (since she was apparently pregnant at some point, with Don Henley's baby), but that may have happened months after the breakup, at which time Lindsey may have already dated someone else (the inspiration for "Never Going Back Again," for example).

We don't know for a fact that Stevie had sex in the time-period directly following her breaking up with Lindsey.

Poor Lindsey was the one who was dumped, and this kind of description still makes it his fault. Sorry, but I find it totally unfair.I wasn't meaning to be unfair to Lindsey. All I said was that I have often suspected that Stevie broke up with Lindsey as a ploy to get his attention. I wasn't placing any blame on his doorstep. In fact, I actually thought that in my scenario, Stevie was the one who came out looking less than favorably, since the behaviour I described is rather immature.

[cliffdweller]

I don't think it's over-simplifying it. I think it may be under-simplifying it. They did have mega issues but on a personal level, which is what a relationship is, Stevie was and is a party girl. She likes to have fun and be the life of the party. Lindsey was and seems like he still is a whining, brooding crybaby who didn't like to socialize and took himself and everything else in life way too seriously. He sat around with his guitar and refused to take an outside job and granted, that paid off for him in The Long Run (had to stick that Eagles reference in there), but can't have been much fun for Stevie, or any woman, to be around. Compare the two men. There's Lindsey and the above description. Then there's Don Henley who was gorgeous, in one of the most successful bands of all time, a partier just like her and willing to leave the house without being dragged out. :laugh: I don't blame her for choosing Don because that's where her mind was at the time. She had already felt betrayed by Lindsey when he toured with the Everly Brothers. She had hit the big time and was ready to do some celebrating. With Lindsey? I don't think so. I think she let the success go to her head, too. All of a sudden, she had her choice in men and they were all successful and in demand. Lindsey really was the hometown boy. He wasn't some great rock icon to her. I still feel like there's a lot of party left in Stevie and I still feel there's a lot of brooding left in Lindsey. For him, maybe the relationship was fine. For her, it was probably pretty boring and depressing.

To my knowledge, Stevie and Lindsey broke up before Don even entered the picture. They were on the outs before Rumours even started to be recorded. Don was not the impetus for their break-up.

Also, Don Henley gorgeous? Surely you jest :laugh::laugh:

[lagringader&r]

I've always suspected that breaking up with Lindsey was actually a ploy to "wake him up."
She's often talked about how she played second fiddle to his guitar, and sometimes felt like he loved it more than he loved her.

So I wouldn't be at all surprised if Stevie broke up with Lindsey secretly hoping that he'd see her with other men, having fun, etc.... then "realize what he had," and make some grand, romantic gesture to win back her love. And I'll bet she was shattered when he didn't even try.

I totally agree with this. Stevie would fight for anything or anyone she loved. I think Lindsey would just let it slide and go back to his guitar and brood about it. There was no way he would make some grand, romantic gesture and it must have been disappointing when he didn't but it probably also firmed up her decision to leave him. I think Lindsey's passionate about some things, but I don't think he would fight for his lover. I think she needs that.

[lagringader&r]

To my knowledge, Stevie and Lindsey broke up before Don even entered the picture. They were on the outs before Rumours even started to be recorded. Don was not the impetus for their break-up.

Also, Don Henley gorgeous? Surely you jest :laugh::laugh:

I think they were still fooling around off and on until Don entered the picture, which I thought was very shortly after S&L were on the outs. Very shortly. I remember reading the story about Stevie being so excited to meet Don, when the Eagles were touring. It was around the same time FM was touring. Obviously when she met him, they hit it off and he became a regular fixture. I think Don might have not been the reason, but once he came along, I think her mind got made up about Lindsey. Don was like the big hammer that drove the last nail in. :laugh:

I thought Don was hot! :nod:

[cliffdweller]

Don was like the big hammer that drove the last nail in. :laugh:

I thought Don was hot! :nod:

Well, you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I think that Stevie could have chosen a better hammer :laugh:. Never got that attraction, but then again, save L.B., I don't get ANY of her attractions.

[amber]

Well, you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I think that Stevie could have chosen better hammers :laugh:. Never got that attraction, but then again, save L.B., I don't get ANY of her attractions.
LB is hot, but I can totally seeing him not wanting to party and have fun as much. Which is highly annoying if you are a girl and want to go out. I imagine it's triply annoying if you are as hot as Stevie, and are suddenly famous and rich and have the opportunity to meet tons of fabulous people. But your dumb boyfriend just wants to stay home and practice guitar, and then if you go out he probably bitches at you, and is like "where were you? Who did you talk to? Oh, really? are you sleeping with him now?" :laugh: :lol:

[lagringader&r]

Well, you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I think that Stevie could have chosen a better hammer :laugh:. Never got that attraction, but then again, save L.B., I don't get ANY of her attractions.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and more than skin deep and yada, yada :lol:, but one thing I love about Stevie is that she is not shallow when it comes to looks. Most of her boyfriends haven't been hot because she could see past the outside. While Don's personality wasn't sparkling :rolleyes: I guess she saw something in him. I do think he was hot, though. I don't think Joe or Mick or Waddy were but they're all good examples of Stevie's lack of shallowness. :nod:

[SapphireSister]

Well, you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I think that Stevie could have chosen a better hammer :laugh:. Never got that attraction, but then again, save L.B., I don't get ANY of her attractions.

Oh come on now! You mean to tell me you don't think Waddy is the epitome of hotness? Those teeth, sexy glasses, and hair. Makes me melt ;)

[lagringader&r]

LB is hot, but I can totally seeing him not wanting to party and have fun as much. Which is highly annoying if you are a girl and want to go out. I imagine it's triply annoying if you are as hot as Stevie, and are suddenly famous and rich and have the opportunity to meet tons of fabulous people. But your dumb boyfriend just wants to stay home and practice guitar, and then if you go out he probably bitches at you, and is like "where were you? Who did you talk to? Oh, really? are you sleeping with him now?" :laugh: :lol:

That's exactly what I was trying to say but got so longwinded about it. :laugh: Lindsey was hot, but hot isn't always fun and I don't think Lindsey could be classified as "fun". Stevie's fun! Stevie needs fun! :woohoo:

[cliffdweller]

LB is hot, but I can totally seeing him not wanting to party and have fun as much. Which is highly annoying if you are a girl and want to go out. I imagine it's triply annoying if you are as hot as Stevie, and are suddenly famous and rich and have the opportunity to meet tons of fabulous people. But your dumb boyfriend just wants to stay home and practice guitar, and then if you go out he probably bitches at you, and is like "where were you? Who did you talk to? Oh, really? are you sleeping with him now?" :laugh: :lol:

Oh I don't know...I think they probably had their fair share of fun together and apart. I don't know about painting Lindsey as the big, bad, anti-social type. He forged a lot of their musical connections so he wasn't all THAT bad. He was definitely having his fair share of fun though, getting stoned with his musician buddies all day and passing out on the floor only to have Stevie step over them when she returned home from waitressing. She did get the raw end of that deal! :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Oh I don't know...I think they probably had their fair share of fun together and apart. I don't know about painting Lindsey as the big, bad, anti-social type. He forged a lot of their musical connections so he wasn't all THAT bad. He was definitely having his fair share of fun though, getting stoned with his musician buddies all day and passing out on the floor only to have Stevie step over them when she returned home from waitressing. She did get the raw end of that deal! :laugh:

and to her credit, she did it willingly.

[Johnny Stew]

Oh come on now! You mean to tell me you don't think Waddy is the epitome of hotness?I will confess that when I was a teen, watching my copy of Stevie's 'In Concert' video, I used to find the glimpses of Waddy's chest and stomach... glistening with a sheen of perspiration... to be pretty sexy. :o

I honestly don't think he's bad looking of a guy. Is he male-model gorgeous? No. But he has an interesting face with a lot of character to it.

[amber]

That's exactly what I was trying to say but got so longwinded about it. :laugh: Lindsey was hot, but hot isn't always fun and I don't think Lindsey could be classified as "fun". Stevie's fun! Stevie needs fun! :woohoo:
Yeah, I totally got what you were saying. :thumbsup: I noticed it especially because I always wanted to go out, and my bf's did not always.... :laugh: I hadn't thought about that much before with LInds and Steve, but since you mentioned it, it just seems totally obvious that that was how it was.

[cliffdweller]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and more than skin deep and yada, yada :lol:, but one thing I love about Stevie is that she is not shallow when it comes to looks.

I know, I know, and I really do admire this too. But let me just say this, they must've had AWESOME personalities and/or been very "talented" in other areas because most of them, to quote Dissention, were whoreanus!! :laugh:

[cliffdweller]

Oh come on now! You mean to tell me you don't think Waddy is the epitome of hotness? Those teeth, sexy glasses, and hair. Makes me melt ;)

:laugh::laugh: Like I said, this guy must have a GREAT personality! :laugh:

[amber]

Oh I don't know...I think they probably had their fair share of fun together and apart. I don't know about painting Lindsey as the big, bad, anti-social type. He forged a lot of their musical connections so he wasn't all THAT bad. He was definitely having his fair share of fun though, getting stoned with his musician buddies all day and passing out on the floor only to have Stevie step over them when she returned home from waitressing. She did get the raw end of that deal! :laugh:
:lol: Hehehehe. I think LIndsey's form of fun may sometimes have been different than Stevie's though, like you say. "oh, boy, honey, can I watch you and your friends get high and play guitar and stare off into space all night? Cause that would be soooo great!" :p I'm sure Lindsey did party and stuff, I just don't think he was probably as socially free as Steve. And another point, is that if you are a guy like LInds, and you are dating someone like Stevie, for the two of you to go out can turn into major Drama, cause undoubtedly, Stevie will be nice and flirtatious, and other guys will think she is really hot, and then LIndsey will watch her and get all jealous, and start being brooding and surly and pouty. Then later they'll have an argument about it.... :D

[strandinthewind]

I will confess that when I was a teen, watching my copy of Stevie's 'In Concert' video, I used to find the glimpses of Waddy's chest and stomach... glistening with a sheen of perspiration... to be pretty sexy. :o

I honestly don't think he's bad looking of a guy. Is he male-model gorgeous? No. But he has an interesting face with a lot of character to it.

He also had the 70's rock god kind of look, which looks not so good now as the trend has changed. But, back then, he had the look :shrug:

Then, there was ole unibrow Iovine :eek:

[cliffdweller]

:lol: Hehehehe. I think LIndsey's form of fun may sometimes have been different than Stevie's though, like you say. "oh, boy, honey, can I watch you and your friends get high and play guitar and stare off into space all night? Cause that would be soooo great!" :p I'm sure Lindsey did party and stuff, I just don't think he was probably as socially free as Steve. And another point, is that if you are a guy like LInds, and you are dating someone like Stevie, for the two of you to go out can turn into major Drama, cause undoubtedly, Stevie will be nice and flirtatious, and other guys will think she is really hot, and then LIndsey will watch her and get all jealous, and start being brooding and surly and pouty. Then later they'll have an argument about it.... :D

:laugh: The visual image you are creating is making roll on the floor with laughter! I guess I never took Lindsey for such a brooder. A self-absorbed spas, and complainer yes, brooder? I don't know. Stevie's the one who's been brooding lo these many years over her dead relationships (dare I open THAT can of worms again?)...she's might be more the brooder.

[dissention]

I will confess that when I was a teen, watching my copy of Stevie's 'In Concert' video, I used to find the glimpses of Waddy's chest and stomach... glistening with a sheen of perspiration... to be pretty sexy. :o

I honestly don't think he's bad looking of a guy. Is he male-model gorgeous? No. But he has an interesting face with a lot of character to it.

And I get flak for thinking Hayden Christensen is hot as hell. Go figure. :laugh:

[dissention]

:laugh: The visual image you are creating is making roll on the floor with laughter! I guess I never took Lindsey for such a brooder. A self-absorbed spas, and complainer yes, brooder? I don't know. Stevie's the one who's been brooding lo these many years over her dead relationships (dare I open THAT can of worms again?)...she's might be more the brooder.

I agree. He's one helluva whiner and a pampered baby, but I brooder? I don't see it. He's too busy looking up big words in the dictionary to use in sentences for him to be brooding very much.

[Johnny Stew]

And I get flak for thinking Hayden Christensen is hot as hell. Go figure. :laugh::laugh:

No flack from me... Hayden IS hot as hell!

[cliffdweller]

But he has an interesting face with a lot of character to it.

Um, look, no :laugh:. Character is one thing, that guy looks like he should be in Fraggle Rock :laugh:. I'm cracking myself up over here.

Really, I'm sure he's a nice, great guy but looks he ain't got. Not even interesting looks.

[dissention]

Um, look, no :laugh:. Character is one thing, that guy looks like he should be in Fraggle Rock :laugh:. I'm cracking myself up over here.

Really, I'm sure he's a nice, great guy but looks he ain't got. Not even interesting looks.

Fraggle Rock! :laugh:

He looks like a night clerk at a roach motel to me.

[cliffdweller]

He's too busy looking up big words in the dictionary to use in sentences for him to be brooding very much.

:laugh::laugh: and as always :xoxo:

[cliffdweller]

:laugh:

No flack from me... Hayden IS hot as hell!

Great!! Something we can all agree on. I haven't seen Episode III yet, and I hate to veer this thread off course for the umpteenth time, but my sister said that Hayden looks "luscious" in it. Anyone? Anyone?

[amber]

:laugh: The visual image you are creating is making roll on the floor with laughter! I guess I never took Lindsey for such a brooder. A self-absorbed spas, and complainer yes, brooder? I don't know. Stevie's the one who's been brooding lo these many years over her dead relationships (dare I open THAT can of worms again?)...she's might be more the brooder.
I think Stevie acts like a brooder, and writes like a brooder, but when she's around other people in social situations that she is not broody. Just the sense I got. She seems pretty friendly, sparkly, and up. Not to mention flirtatious.
I dunno about LIndsey's brooding, he's kind of struck me as a brooder. Specifically a jealous brooder.

[Johnny Stew]

Fraggle Rock! :laugh:They're supposed to release the complete first season on DVD this fall. :blob1:

[strandinthewind]

Great!! Something we can all agree on. I haven't seen Episode III yet, and I hate to veer this thread off course for the umpteenth time, but my sister said that Hayden looks "luscious" in it. Anyone? Anyone?

He did look good in a sinister way in it. However, I cannot stand his acting in it or anything else I have seen him in - so that was detracting to me.

[cliffdweller]

He looks like a night clerk at a roach motel to me.

:laugh: We are sooooo bad!!

[dissention]

Great!! Something we can all agree on. I haven't seen Episode III yet, and I hate to veer this thread off course for the umpteenth time, but my sister said that Hayden looks "luscious" in it. Anyone? Anyone?

Rawr. Don't get me started. He looks the hottest I've ever seen him in that movie and that? Says a helluva lot. He is one perfect specimen. :laugh:

AND - it kicked ASS. You'll love it.

[cliffdweller]

However, I cannot stand his acting in it or anything else I have seen him in - so that was detracting to me.

Really?!!? I thought he was great in Shattered Glass and Life as a House.

[dissention]

:laugh: We are sooooo bad!!

We've been seduced by the Dark Side. :lol:

[strandinthewind]

Rawr. Don't get me started. He looks the hottest I've ever seen him in that movie and that? Says a helluva lot. He is one perfect specimen. :laugh:

AND - it kicked ASS. You'll love it.


though it was completely gratuitous and in no way related to the plot (scant as it were :laugh: ) - I think I heard you in Georgia when you gasped in the shirtless scene :laugh:

[sodascouts]

Great!! Something we can all agree on. I haven't seen Episode III yet, and I hate to veer this thread off course for the umpteenth time, but my sister said that Hayden looks "luscious" in it. Anyone? Anyone?

Hayden normally does nothing for me, but there's one scene where he's having a nightmare and he's shirtless and glistening with sweat that made me go "hmmmm."

Back on topic: His chest is a whole lot better than Waddy's too. Not that looks are important. Heaven knows I don't have 'em myself!

[cliffdweller]

Rawr. Don't get me started. He looks the hottest I've ever seen him in that movie and that? Says a helluva lot. He is one perfect specimen. :laugh:

AND - it kicked ASS. You'll love it.

CANNOT wait. I wanted to go this weekend but the lines were too ridiculous at my favorite cinema. Once you go Alamo Drafthouse, there's no going back. I can't see it at a lesser cinema, sorry. :laugh:

[dissention]

Really?!!? I thought he was great in Shattered Glass and Life as a House.

Me, too. I think he's a fab actor. I bought Life As A House when I went to see Star Wars and forgot how good it was. I'm so pathetic, though, because I cried watching Star Wars and then I wept again when I watched that movie. I cry at everything these days, it's rather sad. And I'm not a depressed person, either. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Really?!!? I thought he was great in Shattered Glass and Life as a House.


He was okay - but, to me, nothing to take notice of. But, I HATED Sideways - so what do i know :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Me, too. I think he's a fab actor. I bought Life As A House when I went to see Star Wars and forgot how good it was. I'm so pathetic, though, because I cried watching Star Wars and then I wept again when I watched that movie. I cry at everything these days, it's rather sad. And I'm not a depressed person, either. :laugh:

I comes from being alone and bitter - I speak from experience :laugh:

[cliffdweller]

We've been seduced by the Dark Side. :lol:

His dark side can seduce me anyday ;).

[Johnny Stew]

I'm so pathetic, though, because I cried watching Star Wars and then I wept again when I watched that movie. I cry at everything these days, it's rather sad.Must be menopause!

[dissention]

though it was completely gratuitous and in no way related to the plot (scant as it were :laugh: ) - I think I heard you in Georgia when you gasped in the shirtless scene :laugh:

How could you have? I passed out. :p

[strandinthewind]

Must be menopause!

OH ZING :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo:

Hot flashes anyone :wavey:

[amber]

Me, too. I think he's a fab actor. I bought Life As A House when I went to see Star Wars and forgot how good it was. I'm so pathetic, though, because I cried watching Star Wars and then I wept again when I watched that movie. I cry at everything these days, it's rather sad. And I'm not a depressed person, either. :laugh:
awww, that is pathetic!



















:lol:

[cliffdweller]

I cry at everything these days, it's rather sad. And I'm not a depressed person, either. :laugh:

Hormonal? I get that way, once a month but we won't go into it :laugh:. I find myself crying at commercials...it's really quite embarrassing and my husband only laughs at me :laugh:.

[strandinthewind]

How could you have? I passed out. :p

That - my dear was not passing out - it was La Petite Mort :eek: and it was accompanied by a yelp though perhaps unheard by you in that moment. :cool:

[amber]

That - my dear was not passing out - it was La Petite Mort :eek: and it was accompanied by a yelp though perhaps unheard by you in that moment. :cool:
:shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

[dissention]

His dark side can seduce me anyday ;).

:laugh:

He'll reward you if you perform beard duty for him.

[cliffdweller]

I comes from being alone and bitter - I speak from experience :laugh:

Diss bitter? Nah! He's a teddy bear!

[dissention]

Hormonal? I get that way, once a month but we won't go into it :laugh:. I find myself crying at commercials...it's really quite embarrassing and my husband only laughs at me :laugh:.

OMG. :laugh: I can't say I've ever cried at a commercial, but I cry a lot these days. Maybe it's just because I'm a highly warm and sensitive individual.

Nah, that can't be it.

[cliffdweller]

:laugh:

He'll reward you if you perform beard duty for him.

That's fine with me, as long as there are "perks" :laugh:.

[amber]

Diss bitter? Nah! He's a teddy bear!
Oh, yeah, I had a "Bitter Bear" when I was little!!! Very cute, it had scowly sewn eyebrows above it's little beady eyes, and when you pressed the back, it said "screw you, I'm better" ! Man, I loved that thing! :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

OMG. :laugh: I can't say I've ever cried at a commercial, but I cry a lot these days. Maybe it's just because I'm a highly warm and sensitive individual.

Nah, that can't be it.


I am trying to remember a BEAUTIFUL poem by a famous Spanish (I think) poet that goes something like this "I cry now and do not know why" I need to google it, because it seemingly fits your sit.

[cliffdweller]

Oh, yeah, I had a "Bitter Bear" when I was little!!! Very cute, it had scowly sewn eyebrows above it's little beady eyes, and when you pressed the back, it said "screw you, I'm better" ! Man, I loved that thing! :laugh:

:laugh: is that like a deranged Care Bear? Laughing again...

[amber]

:laugh: is that like a deranged Care Bear? Laughing again...
:laugh: :lol:
It was a "Doesn't Care Bear" dear.

[cliffdweller]

:laugh: :lol:
It was a "Doesn't Care Bear" dear.

Mmmmm...warm and fuzzy :laugh:.

[dissention]

That's fine with me, as long as there are "perks" :laugh:.

:laugh: There would HAVE to be.

[lagringader&r]

I agree. He's one helluva whiner and a pampered baby, but I brooder? I don't see it. He's too busy looking up big words in the dictionary to use in sentences for him to be brooding very much.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I read something about Stevie and Lindsey at a benefit concert a few years ago and Stevie was up shaking her booty to Brick House. What was Lindsey doing? Absolutely nothing or maybe he was looking up words in the dictionary to amaze everyone with his next perfectly planned sentence, a sentence he would repeat over and over and over again for years to come. :lol: Even when he did the "but the point is, here we are!" speech and shot his arm in the air, he just didn't look that excited to me. I think he's a major brooder. He doesn't seem like someone who would get over things easily. Anything. His relationships, bad career moves, bad reviews, poor record sales. He seems like the type to close himself off and brood about it, but all the while taking out his frustrations on his guitars and through his writing and creating. Then he sits on those for more years to come brooding about the fact that they're not perfect. :eek: Fun, fun, fun! :laugh:

[SapphireSister]

I will confess that when I was a teen, watching my copy of Stevie's 'In Concert' video, I used to find the glimpses of Waddy's chest and stomach... glistening with a sheen of perspiration... to be pretty sexy. :o

I honestly don't think he's bad looking of a guy. Is he male-model gorgeous? No. But he has an interesting face with a lot of character to it.

Ha ha! Johnny <3's Waddy! J/K.

He's actually a really nice guy. His band had a regular Monday night gig at this place called "The Joint" which is literally a mile from my house in LA. Of course the moment I heard this I had to race down there and I went actually on my birthday last year (Sep 30th) and of course I had to chat him up before the show and ramble on and on about Stevie. I asked him how he felt about If Anyone Falls and it being about him (IMO) but of course he was very illusive and asked him if he was going to any of the SYW shows which he said of course to (I was hoping he'd invite me to be his personal guest but it didn't happened *sniffles*) and asked him to tell me all about what she was like LOL but I didn't get much from him except that she's just as wonderful as she seems. He's on the quiet side or maybe he just doesn't like being asked a million questions about her. But what I did get is that they are still very close (which is obvious since they are now touring together) and he simply adores her. Of course when the show went on I was yelling "Waddy I love you" and he actually responded from the stage saying "I love you too and that still feels good after all these years" or something to that affect which I thought was really sweet.

[amber]

Mmmmm...warm and fuzzy :laugh:.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
It was very tempting, but when you tried to cuddle it, it said "In your dreams, fug!" :lol:

[dissention]

I am trying to remember a BEAUTIFUL poem by a famous Spanish (I think) poet that goes something like this "I cry now and do not know why" I need to google it, because it seemingly fits your sit.

I'd love to read it. :nod:

[dissention]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
It was very tempting, but when you tried to cuddle it, it said "In your dreams, fug!" :lol:

Sounds like I'm going to be reincarnated as one of those teddy bears.

[amber]

Sounds like I'm going to be reincarnated as one of those teddy bears.
As far as I have made up in my head, you are the prototype for the teddy bear!

[cliffdweller]

:lol: :lol: :lol: I read something about Stevie and Lindsey at a benefit concert a few years ago and Stevie was up shaking her booty to Brick House.

That? Has me rolling!! And thinking about Lindsey in the corner looking up words in a dictionary amidst the din of Stevie's booty shaking has me rolling!

[dissention]

As far as I have made up in my head, you are the prototype for the teddy bear!

Pull the string and he talks:

"Ho****, you're whoreanus!"

[cliffdweller]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
It was very tempting, but when you tried to cuddle it, it said "In your dreams, fug!" :lol:

:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:

Diss, the teddy bear is you my darling.

[amber]

Pull the string and he talks:

"Ho****, you're whoreanus!"
The best part is, I get to punch the bear!!

[dissention]

:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:

Diss, the teddy bear is you my darling.

Slap a barcode on my ass and mass-market me. I'll be the best friend of children everywhere. :D

[lagringader&r]

That? Has me rolling!! And thinking about Lindsey in the corner looking up words in a dictionary amidst the din of Stevie's booty shaking has me rolling!

What do you wanna bet he carries a pocket Websters with him at all times for emergencies? :eek:

[amber]

Slap a barcode on my ass and mass-market me. I'll be the best friend of children everywhere. :D
Oh**** - now I have to say "copyright pending" and "this is the idea of me" and all that.... :lol:

[strandinthewind]

I'd love to read it. :nod:

I cannot remeber the name - I think it is Youth, Divine Treasure anbd I know it is by Rubén DarÃ*o and the relevant part goes like this:

Youth, divine treasure, already gone to not return!

When I want to cry, I do not cry,

and sometimes I cry without wanting to..

_______________

and he was Nicaraguan not Spanish

[Livia]

That? Has me rolling!! And thinking about Lindsey in the corner looking up words in a dictionary amidst the din of Stevie's booty shaking has me rolling!

I would have paid good $$ to see that! And Brick House is the ring on my cell phone! That song rules!

[strandinthewind]

Here is the whole thing :cool:

Cancion de Otono en Primavera (With English Translation)
by Ruben Dario

Juventud, divino tesoro,
ya te vas para no volver!
Cuando quiero llorar, no lloro,
y a veces lloro sin querer….

Plural ha sido la celeste
historia de mi corazon.
Era una dulce niña, en este
mundo de duelo y afliccion.

Miraba como el alba pura;
sonreÃ*a como una flor.
Era su cabellera obscura
hecha de noche y de dolor.

Yo era timido como un nino.
Ella, naturalmente, fue,
para mi amor hecho de armiño,
HerodÃ*as y Salome….

Juventud, divino tesoro,
ya te vas para no volver….!
Cuando quiero llorar, no lloro,
y a veces lloro sin querer….

La otra fue mas sensitiva
y mas consoladora y mas
halagadora y expresiva,
cual no pensé encontrar jamás.

Pues a su continua ternura
una pasion violenta unia.
En un peplo de gasa pura
una bacante se envolvia….

En sus brazos tomo mi ensueno
y lo arrullo como a un bebe….
y lo mato, triste y pequeño,
falto de luz, falto de fe….

Juventud, divino tesoro,
te fuiste para no volver!
Cuando quiero llorar, no lloro,
y a veces lloro sin querer….

Otra juzgo que era mi boca
el estuche de su pasion;
y que me roerÃ*a, loca,
con sus dientes el corazon

poniendo en un amor de exceso
la mira de su voluntad,
mientras eran abrazo y beso
sÃ*ntesis de la eternidad;

y de nuestra carne ligera
imaginar siempre un Eden,
sin pensar que la Primavera
y la carne acaban tambien….

Juventud, divino tesoro,
ya te vas para no volver!
Cuando quiero llorar, no lloro,
y a veces lloro sin querer….

Y las demas! en tantos climas,
en tantas tierras, siempre son,
si no pretextos de mis rimas,
fantasmas de mi corazon.

En vano busqué a la princesa
que estaba triste de esperar.
La vida es dura. Amarga y pesa.
Ya no hay princesa que cantar!

Más a pesar del tiempo terco,
mi sed de amor no tiene fin:
con el cabello gris me acerco
a los rosales del jardÃ*n….

Juventud, divino tesoro,
ya te vas para no volver….
Cuando quiero llorar, no lloro,
y a veces lloro sin querer….

Más es mÃ*a el Alba de oro!



English Translation

Song of Autumn in the Springtime

Youth, treasure only gods may keep,
Fleeting from me forever now!
I cannot, when I wish to, weep,
And often cry I know not how….

My heart's celestial histories,
So countless were, could not be told.-
She was a tender child, in this
World of affliction manifold.

She seemed a dawn of pure delight;
She smiled as the flowers after rain;
Her stresses were like to the night
Fashioned of darknesses and pain.

I was timid and childlike shy.
I could not but have been this way:
She, to my love chaste as the sky,
Was Herodias and Salomé….

Youth, treasure only gods may keep,
Fleeting from me forever now!
I cannot, when I wish to, weep,
And often cry I know not how….

The other was more sensitive,
More quieting and loving-kind,
With greater will to love and live
Than I ever had hoped to find.

For with her grace of tenderness
A violence of love she had:
In a peplos of loveliness
Was hid a Maenad passion mad….

Youth, treasure only gods may keep,
Wilted in me forever now!
I cannot, when I wish to, weep,
And often cry I know not how….

Another fancied my lips were
A casket wrought to hold her love;
And wildly with the teeth of her
To gnaw my very heart she strove.

She willed all passionate excess;
She was a flame of love for me;
She made each ardorous caress
Synthesis of eternity.

She deemed our flesh a deathless thing,
And on desire an Eden reared,
Forgetting that the flowers of Spring
And of the flesh so soon are seared….

Youth, treasure only gods may keep,
Fleeting from me forever now!
I cannot, when I wish to, weep,
And often cry I know not how….

And the others! In many climes,
In so many lands, ever were
Merely the pretext for my rhymes,
Or heart-born fantasies of her.

I sought for the princess in vain,
She that awaited sorrowing.
But life is hard. Bitter with pain.
There is no princess now to sing!

And yet despite the season drear,
My thirst of love no slaking knows;
Gray-haired am I, yet still draw near
The roses of the garden-close….

Youth, treasure only gods may keep,
Fleeting from me forever now!
I cannot, when I wish to, weep,
And often cry I know not how…

Ah, but the golden Dawn is mine!

[dissention]

Here is the whole thing :cool:

Cancion de Otono en Primavera (With English Translation)
by Ruben Dario

Juventud, divino tesoro,
ya te vas para no volver!
Cuando quiero llorar, no lloro,
y a veces lloro sin querer….

Plural ha sido la celeste
historia de mi corazon.
Era una dulce niña, en este
mundo de duelo y afliccion.

Miraba como el alba pura;
sonreÃ*a como una flor.
Era su cabellera obscura
hecha de noche y de dolor.

Yo era timido como un nino.
Ella, naturalmente, fue,
para mi amor hecho de armiño,
HerodÃ*as y Salome….

Juventud, divino tesoro,
ya te vas para no volver….!
Cuando quiero llorar, no lloro,
y a veces lloro sin querer….

La otra fue mas sensitiva
y mas consoladora y mas
halagadora y expresiva,
cual no pensé encontrar jamás.

Pues a su continua ternura
una pasion violenta unia.
En un peplo de gasa pura
una bacante se envolvia….

En sus brazos tomo mi ensueno
y lo arrullo como a un bebe….
y lo mato, triste y pequeño,
falto de luz, falto de fe….

Juventud, divino tesoro,
te fuiste para no volver!
Cuando quiero llorar, no lloro,
y a veces lloro sin querer….

Otra juzgo que era mi boca
el estuche de su pasion;
y que me roerÃ*a, loca,
con sus dientes el corazon

poniendo en un amor de exceso
la mira de su voluntad,
mientras eran abrazo y beso
sÃ*ntesis de la eternidad;

y de nuestra carne ligera
imaginar siempre un Eden,
sin pensar que la Primavera
y la carne acaban tambien….

Juventud, divino tesoro,
ya te vas para no volver!
Cuando quiero llorar, no lloro,
y a veces lloro sin querer….

Y las demas! en tantos climas,
en tantas tierras, siempre son,
si no pretextos de mis rimas,
fantasmas de mi corazon.

En vano busqué a la princesa
que estaba triste de esperar.
La vida es dura. Amarga y pesa.
Ya no hay princesa que cantar!

Más a pesar del tiempo terco,
mi sed de amor no tiene fin:
con el cabello gris me acerco
a los rosales del jardÃ*n….

Juventud, divino tesoro,
ya te vas para no volver….
Cuando quiero llorar, no lloro,
y a veces lloro sin querer….

Más es mÃ*a el Alba de oro!



English Translation

Song of Autumn in the Springtime

Youth, treasure only gods may keep,
Fleeting from me forever now!
I cannot, when I wish to, weep,
And often cry I know not how….

My heart's celestial histories,
So countless were, could not be told.-
She was a tender child, in this
World of affliction manifold.

She seemed a dawn of pure delight;
She smiled as the flowers after rain;
Her stresses were like to the night
Fashioned of darknesses and pain.

I was timid and childlike shy.
I could not but have been this way:
She, to my love chaste as the sky,
Was Herodias and Salomé….

Youth, treasure only gods may keep,
Fleeting from me forever now!
I cannot, when I wish to, weep,
And often cry I know not how….

The other was more sensitive,
More quieting and loving-kind,
With greater will to love and live
Than I ever had hoped to find.

For with her grace of tenderness
A violence of love she had:
In a peplos of loveliness
Was hid a Maenad passion mad….

Youth, treasure only gods may keep,
Wilted in me forever now!
I cannot, when I wish to, weep,
And often cry I know not how….

Another fancied my lips were
A casket wrought to hold her love;
And wildly with the teeth of her
To gnaw my very heart she strove.

She willed all passionate excess;
She was a flame of love for me;
She made each ardorous caress
Synthesis of eternity.

She deemed our flesh a deathless thing,
And on desire an Eden reared,
Forgetting that the flowers of Spring
And of the flesh so soon are seared….

Youth, treasure only gods may keep,
Fleeting from me forever now!
I cannot, when I wish to, weep,
And often cry I know not how….

And the others! In many climes,
In so many lands, ever were
Merely the pretext for my rhymes,
Or heart-born fantasies of her.

I sought for the princess in vain,
She that awaited sorrowing.
But life is hard. Bitter with pain.
There is no princess now to sing!

And yet despite the season drear,
My thirst of love no slaking knows;
Gray-haired am I, yet still draw near
The roses of the garden-close….

Youth, treasure only gods may keep,
Fleeting from me forever now!
I cannot, when I wish to, weep,
And often cry I know not how…

Ah, but the golden Dawn is mine!

Thanks, I really liked that. It's beautiful. :nod:

[CreepingDeath]

I read something about Stevie and Lindsey at a benefit concert a few years ago and Stevie was up shaking her booty to Brick House.

It was the Andre Agassi Benefit in '98 (I was there). She also played At Last that night. Good Times. :thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

It was the Andre Agassi Benefit in '98 (I was there). She also played At Last that night. Good Times. :thumbsup:


can you believe that was SEVEN years ago -- OY

[CreepingDeath]

can you believe that was SEVEN years ago -- OY

Eh, don't remind me. I'm already feeling old and crabby because my birthday is coming up in June. I? Hate my birthday. Getting older and all that jazz sucks. :nod:

[glitter_fades]

Ok. Time to review :D

Here's what everyone's been saying on the last few pages about the nature of the S&L relationship at the time they broke up:


I've always suspected that breaking up with Lindsey was actually a ploy to "wake him up." So I wouldn't be at all surprised if Stevie broke up with Lindsey secretly hoping that he'd see her with other men, having fun, etc.... then "realize what he had," and make some grand, romantic gesture to win back her love.

And I'll bet she was shattered when he didn't even try.



if Stevie thought having sex with another man was a great way to fix up her relationship with Lindsey, she's less intelligent than I gave her credit for being. Poor Lindsey was the one who was dumped, and this kind of description still makes it his fault. Sorry, but I find it totally unfair.


Well, she dumped him for a reason.

Stevie was and is a party girl. She likes to have fun and be the life of the party. Lindsey was and seems like he still is a whining, brooding crybaby who didn't like to socialize and took himself and everything else in life way too seriously...

Then there's Don Henley who was gorgeous, in one of the most successful bands of all time, a partier just like her and willing to leave the house without being dragged out...

She had hit the big time and was ready to do some celebrating. With Lindsey? I don't think so. I think she let the success go to her head, too....

Lindsey really was the hometown boy. He wasn't some great rock icon to her. I still feel like there's a lot of party left in Stevie and I still feel there's a lot of brooding left in Lindsey. For him, maybe the relationship was fine. For her, it was probably pretty boring and depressing.

I wasn't meaning to be unfair to Lindsey. All I said was that I have often suspected that Stevie broke up with Lindsey as a ploy to get his attention. I wasn't placing any blame on his doorstep.

In fact, I actually thought that in my scenario, Stevie was the one who came out looking less than favorably, since the behaviour I described is rather immature.

LB is hot, but I can totally seeing him not wanting to party and have fun as much. Which is highly annoying if you are a girl and want to go out. I imagine it's triply annoying if you are as hot as Stevie, and are suddenly famous and rich and have the opportunity to meet tons of fabulous people. But your dumb boyfriend just wants to stay home and practice guitar, and then if you go out he probably bitches at you, and is like "where were you? Who did you talk to? Oh, really? are you sleeping with him now?"




I don't think Lindsey could be classified as "fun". Stevie's fun! Stevie needs fun!

I think Lindsey's passionate about some things, but I don't think he would fight for his lover. I think she needs that.

Observation on your comments:

Stevie and many of you describe LB as controlling, jealous, brooding, depressing, boring, basically an anti-social hermit who wanted Stevie to stay home with him like a prisoner. She could not go out or ever have any fun. You say you think she was right to leave him even though he never did anything really bad to her except keep her from enjoying the spoils of their success. You also think she was lured away by a more attractive suitor with a more compatible lifestyle, more from her world, (Don). Finally, you think she may have gone away with the true intention of returning if the controlling, jealous, brooding, boring, depressing, anti-social (man?) went after her. He did not. No, he did what he though she wanted and what was best for her. He failed to invoke his most unattractive character trait, the thing that drove her away in the first place...control. Instead he let her go believing she understood what doing that meant to him and hoped she would return before it was too late.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stevie says that her favorite fairy tale is Beauty and the Beast. She loved the fable as a child, but when she saw the Jean Cocteau film rendition in later years, her fascination was cemented. She'll recount her version of the yarn at the drop of a hat, claiming that,
at the end of the fable, "Beauty became the Beast, and he became the beautiful one."

The story line, as Stevie tells it, concerns the plight of a sweet-natured woman named Beauty, the youngest of three otherwise repellent sisters, who volunteers to become a captive angel in the Beast's castle after her father incurs his wrath by plucking one of his prized roses. Beauty rides to her palatial prison on a magic white horse sent by the Beast and settles into a grotesque lifestyle wherein she spurns the affections of her gentlemanly captor, breaking his heart a little more each day with her increasingly cruel taunts in the face of his love.

When Beauty learns her father is dying, the Beast allows her to go to him, but warns that if she does not return by the seventh day, he will expire from despair. On the eighth day, she leaves her dead father and venal sisters and rushes back to the castle to find that the Beast is done for. In his last breath, he says that all a beast who loves her can do is die for her.

Sitting across from Stevie as she dries her eyes and slips back into here and now, I can think of only one appropriate question.

"In your version of Beauty and the Beast, Beauty finally understands that there are difficult choices to make in this world.

Knowing her fate, if you were her, what would your decision have been?"

"I would have chosen the Beast," she says softly. "Absolutely." :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
------------------------------------------------------------------------


I thought this was an interesting comment. However, I disagree with it.
There was no way he would make some grand, romantic gesture and it must have been disappointing when he didn't but

it probably also firmed up her decision to leave him.

I think he made a very grand gesture. Do you think Stevie ever realized that?

As for firming up her decsion to leave him, you might be right.
Do you think she ever regretted that decision?
Do you think she ever wrote a song about it?

:)

[lagringader&r]

Ok. Time to review :D

Here's what everyone's been saying on the last few pages about the nature of the S&L relationship at the time they broke up:

Observation on your comments:

Stevie and many of you describe LB as controlling, jealous, brooding, depressing, boring, basically an anti-social hermit who wanted Stevie to stay home with him like a prisoner. She could not go out or ever have any fun. You say you think she was right to leave him even though he never did anything really bad to her except keep her from enjoying the spoils of their success. You also think she was lured away by a more attractive suitor with a more compatible lifestyle, more from her world, (Don). Finally, you think she may have gone away with the true intention of returning if the controlling, jealous, brooding, boring, depressing, anti-social (man?) went after her. He did not. No, he did what he though she wanted and what was best for her. He failed to invoke his most unattractive character trait, the thing that drove her away in the first place...control. Instead he let her go believing she understood what doing that meant to him and hoped she would return before it was too late.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stevie says that her favorite fairy tale is Beauty and the Beast. She loved the fable as a child, but when she saw the Jean Cocteau film rendition in later years, her fascination was cemented. She'll recount her version of the yarn at the drop of a hat, claiming that,
at the end of the fable, "Beauty became the Beast, and he became the beautiful one."

The story line, as Stevie tells it, concerns the plight of a sweet-natured woman named Beauty, the youngest of three otherwise repellent sisters, who volunteers to become a captive angel in the Beast's castle after her father incurs his wrath by plucking one of his prized roses. Beauty rides to her palatial prison on a magic white horse sent by the Beast and settles into a grotesque lifestyle wherein she spurns the affections of her gentlemanly captor, breaking his heart a little more each day with her increasingly cruel taunts in the face of his love.

When Beauty learns her father is dying, the Beast allows her to go to him, but warns that if she does not return by the seventh day, he will expire from despair. On the eighth day, she leaves her dead father and venal sisters and rushes back to the castle to find that the Beast is done for. In his last breath, he says that all a beast who loves her can do is die for her.

Sitting across from Stevie as she dries her eyes and slips back into here and now, I can think of only one appropriate question.

"In your version of Beauty and the Beast, Beauty finally understands that there are difficult choices to make in this world.

Knowing her fate, if you were her, what would your decision have been?"

"I would have chosen the Beast," she says softly. "Absolutely." :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
------------------------------------------------------------------------


I thought this was an interesting comment. However, I disagree with it.


I think he made a very grand gesture. Do you think Stevie ever realized that?

As for firming up her decsion to leave him, you might be right.
Do you think she ever regretted that decision?
Do you think she ever wrote a song about it?

:)

I would choose the beast of course, but that's a fairytale. :) S&L's world was rock & roll, drugs, sleeping around, obscene amounts of money, temptations, incompatiblity and on and on. And no one died because someone left. Not literally. Emotionally, a breakup is always a death but not one in a literal sense.

I don't know that Lindsey made a grand gesture to let her go. He taunted her, mocked her, was rude to her, publicly humiliated her on stage at a Tusk show, kicked her and otherwise had a physical altercation with her and I don't think that's doing the noble thing and letting someone go. He's also said some pretty crappy things about her over the years. Stevie is a Vegas lounge act? Oh, the irony. :lol: But, did Stevie realize that grand gesture? I think she had it thrown in her face often so she had to see what his way of letting go was all about. I think she took some abuse from him during those years and if that's his way of letting go, I don't see how she could have missed it. :distress:

Did she regret that decision to leave? Probably, at times. When things didn't pan out with Don or when Joe or Mick broke her heart, she probably thought about it. I don't know that she ever regretted it that much though. She said that she would get back with Lindsey "over my dead body" and that was not that long ago that she said that. She's had a lot of time to get over whatever it was that made her want to leave him and she still would do it again only over her dead body so I'm not sure she regrets it that much. That doesn't mean she doesn't care about him and think about what they had, but I'm not sure she regrets leaving. She also said something like "Stevie, you made a mistake" when talking about seeing him with his kids, but when I read that I took it as tongue-in-cheek, like she thought he was cute with his kids and is a great father and she never had kids. I think she wanted them. I think that's the part of it that probably gets to her. She gave up the family life for her career and here Lindsey gets to have it all. I still wouldn't say she regrets it if she was being totally serious. Though, she probably regrets hurting him because she's a kind person and she loved him. She's not the type of person to relish hurting someone else.

Did she ever write a song about it? She always writes songs for Lindsey and for her other lovers so I'm sure she has. Do you mean a song about regretting it or just a song about their relationship? Either way, I would say she has. Stevie loves to love pain and most breakups are at least a little painful, even if someone actually wants it or initiates it. :nod:

[glitter_fades]

she probably regrets hurting him because she's a kind person and she loved him. She's not the type of person to relish hurting someone else.

Did she ever write a song about it?


Any particular song that might cover this topic?

[glitter_fades]

I would choose the beast of course, but that's a fairytale. :) S&L's world was rock & roll, drugs, sleeping around, obscene amounts of money, temptations, incompatiblity and on and on. And no one died because someone left. Not literally. Emotionally, a breakup is always a death but not one in a literal sense.

I don't know that Lindsey made a grand gesture to let her go. He taunted her, mocked her, was rude to her, publicly humiliated her on stage at a Tusk show, kicked her and otherwise had a physical altercation with her and I don't think that's doing the noble thing and letting someone go. He's also said some pretty crappy things about her over the years. Stevie is a Vegas lounge act? Oh, the irony. :lol: But, did Stevie realize that grand gesture? I think she had it thrown in her face often so she had to see what his way of letting go was all about. I think she took some abuse from him during those years and if that's his way of letting go, I don't see how she could have missed it. :distress:

Did she regret that decision to leave? Probably, at times. When things didn't pan out with Don or when Joe or Mick broke her heart, she probably thought about it. I don't know that she ever regretted it that much though. She said that she would get back with Lindsey "over my dead body" and that was not that long ago that she said that. She's had a lot of time to get over whatever it was that made her want to leave him and she still would do it again only over her dead body so I'm not sure she regrets it that much. That doesn't mean she doesn't care about him and think about what they had, but I'm not sure she regrets leaving. She also said something like "Stevie, you made a mistake" when talking about seeing him with his kids, but when I read that I took it as tongue-in-cheek, like she thought he was cute with his kids and is a great father and she never had kids. I think she wanted them. I think that's the part of it that probably gets to her. She gave up the family life for her career and here Lindsey gets to have it all. I still wouldn't say she regrets it if she was being totally serious. Though, she probably regrets hurting him because she's a kind person and she loved him. She's not the type of person to relish hurting someone else.

Did she ever write a song about it? She always writes songs for Lindsey and for her other lovers so I'm sure she has. Do you mean a song about regretting it or just a song about their relationship? Either way, I would say she has. Stevie loves to love pain and most breakups are at least a little painful, even if someone actually wants it or initiates it. :nod:

Sounds like you think he acted like a complete beast toward her? :nod: People always point to the one time they know LB did something immature and brutish (beastly), kicking Stevie and mocking her on stage, which both happened at a single show years and years ago, and several years after it seemed clear she was not going to come back to him. Is that the public humiliation you mean? He also made one critical comment about her solo career in the past 25 years. Do those come anywhere near the personal and public humiliation Stevie's suffered from her own behavior or from Don and Mick airing her dirty laundry to the world for publicity and to make a buck?

Nobody ever mentions all the negative things SN has said about LB over the years, nor do they use her self-serving or catty comments to judge her character. She has said some catty things many times, but people just take her comments as sincere and as the only version of the truth. Stevie's tantrums are also never at issue when people talk about the S&L relationship. She apologized to him about the fight in '87 which Mick said LB attacked SN, but she's said more than once that she pounced on him first. Whatever. My point was not to count up the childish things LB and SN did in the years of grieving when SN did not return after LB let her go. He did not chase after her and force her to stay with him. Why would he? She left because he was a possessive controlling jerk. I wondered why anyone thought it was romantic to pursue someone who left you in large part because you tried too hard to hold on to them? Doesn't make much sense to me.

[lagringader&r]

Any particular song that might cover this topic?

Running Through The Garden I always thought was filled with apologies and I only assume it's about Lindsey because most of SYW has the sound of that.
"Never did I mean to imprison you, here in my garden. Like I am in prison. For the love I have for your life, turn around." I take that to mean that she cares about him, but tells him to turn around, go.

Also, Destiny Rules. The whole song sounds like an apology to me.
"When I see you again, it appears to me that destiny rules. That the spirits are ruthless with the paths they choose." And it ends with "They're just following the rules", meaning the spirits. I think that was her way of saying it wasn't meant to be (the spirits are ruthless) and her apology to him when she lets him know that she wonders where he is and how he feels. She wanted him to know that she cared, but that destiny is what rules and their destiny wasn't to be together.

I can go back further into her solo material, but those two come to mind right now.

[glitter_fades]

Running Through The Garden I always thought was filled with apologies and I only assume it's about Lindsey because most of SYW has the sound of that.
"Never did I mean to imprison you, here in my garden. Like I am in prison. For the love I have for your life, turn around." I take that to mean that she cares about him, but tells him to turn around, go.

Also, Destiny Rules. The whole song sounds like an apology to me.
"When I see you again, it appears to me that destiny rules. That the spirits are ruthless with the paths they choose." And it ends with "They're just following the rules", meaning the spirits. I think that was her way of saying it wasn't meant to be (the spirits are ruthless) and her apology to him when she lets him know that she wonders where he is and how he feels. She wanted him to know that she cared, but that destiny is what rules and their destiny wasn't to be together.

I can go back further into her solo material, but those two come to mind right now.

That's ok. Nevermind.

[lagringader&r]

Sounds like you think he acted like a comeplete beast towrd her? :nod: People always point to the one time they know LB did something immature and brutish (beastly) kicking Stevie and mocking her on stage, which both happened at a single show years and years ago. Is that the public humiliation you mean? He also made one critical comment about her solo career in the past 25 years. Do those come anywhere near the personal and public humiliation Stevie's suffered from her own behavior or from Don and Mick airing their dirty laundry to the world for publicity and to make a buck?

Nobody ever mentions all the negative things SN has said about LB over the years, nor do they use her self-serving or catty comments to judge her character. She has said some catty things many times, but people just take her comments as sincere and as the only version of the truth. Stevie's tantrums are also never at issue when people talk about the S&L relationship. She apologized to him about the fight in '87 which Mick said LB attacked SN, but she's said more than once that she pounced on him first. Whatever. My point was not to count up the childish things LB and SN did in the years of grieving when SN did not return after LB let her go. He did not chase after her and force her to stay with him. Why would he? She left because he was a possessive controlling jerk. I wondered why anyone thought it was romantic to pursue someone who left you in large part because you tried too hard to hold on to them? Doesn't make much sense to me.

You said that his grand, romantic gesture was letting her go for her sake. I don't think he was kind to her after their breakup so I don't think that's the type of gesture she was looking for. Lindsey has reeked of discreet sarcasm when it has come to her. When Stevie has made remarks about him, I didn't think she was trying to be cruel or to make him look foolish. I think she was being truthful. She has said he was controlling and even frightening at times. If he really had wanted to let her go for her sake, don't you think he would have been a little nicer about it? And you're right, she is responsible for a lot of self-inflicted abuse and Don and Mick have been just as bad about airing their dirty laundry. The topic was Lindsey, though, and him not making grand overtures to win her back. I don't think he did. I think he didn't put up much of a fight, but he made her pay and pay and pay later. That's not love, in my opinion. :distress:

[glitter_fades]

You said that his grand, romantic gesture was letting her go for her sake. I don't think he was kind to her after their breakup so I don't think that's the type of gesture she was looking for. Lindsey has reeked of discreet sarcasm when it has come to her. When Stevie has made remarks about him, I didn't think she was trying to be cruel or to make him look foolish. I think she was being truthful. She has said he was controlling and even frightening at times. If he really had wanted to let her go for her sake, don't you think he would have been a little nicer about it? And you're right, she is responsible for a lot of self-inflicted abuse and Don and Mick have been just as bad about airing their dirty laundry. The topic was Lindsey, though, and him not making grand overtures to win her back. I don't think he did. I think he didn't put up much of a fight, but he made her pay and pay and pay later. That's not love, in my opinion. :distress:

Seems you don't see how the things you've mentioned support my point, since I guess you've kinda missed my point. All the things you mention happened as a result of her leaving and him not stopping her. The bad things happened several years later and in the aftermath of each regretting poor choices. Somebody else mentioned Christine saying LB was very upset at her leaving at first, but he waited for SN to come back. He worked on her music and let her go off with another man. Anyone who thinks SN and DH were just playing jacks after she left LB is living in as big a fantasy world as La Nicks. She made her choice and as you say doesn't regret it. More power to her.

:wavey:

[lagringader&r]

Seems you don't see how the things you've mentioned support my point, since I guessed you've kinda missed my point. All the things you mention happened as a result of her leaving and him not stopping her. The bad things happened several years later and in the aftermath of each regretting poor choices. Somebody else mentioned Christine saying LB was very upset at her leaving at first, but he waited for SN to come back. He worked on her music and let her go off with another man. Anyone who thinks SN and DH were just playing jacks after she left LB is living in as big a fantasy world as La Nicks. She made her choice and as you say, she never regretted it. More power to her.

:wavey:

Hi again :lol: Maybe I did miss your point and sorry if I did. I know Lindsey was upset at her leaving him and that's why he acted out. Going back to what Johnny Stew said about Stevie wanting him to possibly try to win her back, my point was only that Lindsey's acting out wasn't what she had in mind I'm sure. I also didn't say she never regretted it. I said I didn't think she did, but there might have been times when she did or when she thought about it. When she had romantic problems with someone else, for instance. I'm sure now that they're both older and wiser, they both regret the turmoil they put each other through. I know Stevie's not perfect. I don't think Lindsey is a total a**hole either. I just don't think they were good together and it caused her to walk out and him to act out. Going back to what I was trying to say earlier, Stevie wanted fun and Lindsey didn't seem like a barrel of laughs. I'm sure there were more complex issues, but I think incompatibility is probably what got the ball rolling. All the other crap was the fallout or the aftermath. :wavey:

[Kelly]

It is sad that some Nicks fans have forumulated a rock solid opinion of who Lindsey is based on Mick's book, Stevie's ever changing comments and a few isolated interview clips. The Tusk New Zealand incident was ONE freaking incident in a ten year relationship at that point. There are varying accounts on what happened but the truth seems to be that LB was drunk and acted stupid. To hear Nicks fans retell the story you would think he pumelled her across the stage or something. Point here is Stevie never brings up that event, others do. Stevie never brings up the one comment he made about her solo career. Her solo career probably ate a hole in him the size of Australia, yet you guys can find "one" slightly bad thing he has ever said about it and that was in reference to her show not the album. I am confident that Stevie does not view Lindsey like some of her fans do. Is he perfect? No. Is he Mr. FunLoving? No. Did he love and accept her unconditionally long before she was famous? Yup and I bet having someone like that in her life is very important to Stevie. More important that having someone who likes to party. He has kept her secrets when "friends and exlovers" like Mick were running around spilling them to Rolling Stone and in trashy novels. "Friends" like Don were talking opening to a large publication about how Stevie got pregnant with his kid, supposedly, he tossed that word in for good measure. Joe Walsh basically said their relationship was a drug and drink induced event and said, in not so many words, how it really didn't matter to him. There have been men who have been disloyal to her and Lindsey ain't one of them. Maybe he was quiet, brooding, moody but he is also a genius and extremely creative...Two of the qualities Stevie said she wanted in a man.

With everyone's comments pieced together from GF, it is difficult to understand how anyone could believe BaTB is about Mick but you know...some of you still will!

BTW...Stevie has referred to LB as "beautiful" in many songs (IMHO). "you consume all the beauty in the room"..."beautiful childlike victim"..."beautiful child" (that song is so not about Mick) "my beautiful, beautiful, beautiful beast"
There are others but that is enough for now.

[MoonChilde]

ok..please dont be to harsh on me here. :laugh: I'm not a very good debater..and have just recently joined this forum..but I have this incredible urge to put my 2cents in here..I have read every post and am fascinated by everything that has been said..I would like to put my spin on things..speaking as someone who grew up in the same time frame as Stevie and actually went through alot of the same "life experiences" .uh minus the famous lifestyle and money ..LB and Sn met young and and fell in love..and then Life happened.As someone who went through the same thing(I fell in love and married at 17) and it he was my forever love..But....life happens and sometimes we grow up and grow apart.Speaking for myself, I was angry and disallusioned that the dream was dying.After years of anger and bitterness, somehow you come to a place in your heart and mind and realize ,we all make mistakes and have regrets and its ok, but you also realize why it all started in the first place.Today my ex and I are friends..something I never would of thought would happen back when it all was happening..We are now both in that place in life ,where we can once again be friends and be happy for one another.IMHO..I think that is where LB &Sn are.."Life does come full circle"
and if I might just add one more cheesy line.."There is very thin line between love and hate". Of course I am a romantic, and I have my happy ending and that is what I wish for Stevie and Lindsey.. I think they both sing about each other and all of what life has thrown in their paths..and it has been a beautiful never ending story and I look forward to the next chapter in their lives.. :wavey:

[eclipse]

Stevie and Lindsey have ALWAYS been connected-and they shall remain that way forever...

Stevie knows that.."destiny rules".. and I think that Lindsey has finally accepted it too.

Many people believe that souls that have been together in different times find each other in newer times. I think their souls always were together-which may explain a lot about the love/love :love/hate democraphics that they have always encountered.
But I agree with everyone...I just want to keep following along and see where this road takes them..and us, the devoted romantic dreamers....
~~eclipse~~

[cliffdweller]

Running Through The Garden I always thought was filled with apologies and I only assume it's about Lindsey because most of SYW has the sound of that.
"Never did I mean to imprison you, here in my garden. Like I am in prison. For the love I have for your life, turn around." I take that to mean that she cares about him, but tells him to turn around, go.

Also, Destiny Rules. The whole song sounds like an apology to me.
"When I see you again, it appears to me that destiny rules. That the spirits are ruthless with the paths they choose." And it ends with "They're just following the rules", meaning the spirits. I think that was her way of saying it wasn't meant to be (the spirits are ruthless) and her apology to him when she lets him know that she wonders where he is and how he feels. She wanted him to know that she cared, but that destiny is what rules and their destiny wasn't to be together.

I can go back further into her solo material, but those two come to mind right now.

On a different but related note: what is "Smile At You about?" This whole business of "go on save yourself/leave the key here/you love someone else/I shouldn't be here"---who is she talking to/about? This song was written around the time of Rumours right? Then, if that's true, it couldn't be about Lindsey could it? She broke up with him, unless this was about a brief interlude when they were "on again." I've often wondered... :confused:

[strandinthewind]

. . . Doesn't make much sense to me.


that is because you choose to believe some quotes and others you use in a way in which they were not proffered :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

. . . beautiful child" (that song is so not about Mick)

unless you have some fact to back that up - that is your opinion :cool:

"my beautiful, beautiful, beautiful beast"

which she repeatedly and consistently has said for like 5 years is about Mick not Lindsey no matter how many times you say it is about LB :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

On a different but related note: what is "Smile At You about?" This whole business of "go on save yourself/leave the key here/you love someone else/I shouldn't be here"---who is she talking to/about? This song was written around the time of Rumours right? Then, if that's true, it couldn't be about Lindsey could it? She broke up with him, unless this was about a brief interlude when they were "on again." I've often wondered... :confused:

Smile at You is about Don not LB. That is, of course, just my opinion :wavey:

[sparky]

Slap a barcode on my ass and mass-market me. I'll be the best friend of children everywhere. :D

You and Michael Jackson.

[sparky]

Running Through The Garden I always thought was filled with apologies and I only assume it's about Lindsey because most of SYW has the sound of that.
"Never did I mean to imprison you, here in my garden. Like I am in prison. For the love I have for your life, turn around." I take that to mean that she cares about him, but tells him to turn around, go.

Good Lord these things are starting to be a painful stretch. That song is based on Rappaccini's Daughter by Nathaniel Hawthorne. Those lyrics are an exact reflection of a story point in the novella. I seriously doubt the song has anything to do with anything else.
I am wondering when someone is going to posit that Johnny and Ray Cash wrote "I Still Miss Someone" in a psychic flash forward about Lindsey Buckingham. They visualized the future, they pictured Lindsey, they knew all about him and Stevie and knew she would one day lament the loss of their grand romance and need to sing a song about him once again on The Other Side Of The Mirror. So BOOM ! The song was born. Yet another piece of music inspired by Lindsey.

[glitter_fades]

Good Lord these things are starting to be a painful stretch. That song is based on Rappaccini's Daughter by Nathaniel Hawthorne. Those lyrics are an exact reflection of a story point in the novella. I seriously doubt the song has anything to do with anything else.
I am wondering when someone is going to posit that Johnny and Ray Cash wrote "I Still Miss Someone" in a psychic flash forward about Lindsey Buckingham. They visualized the future, they pictured Lindsey, they knew all about him and Stevie and knew she would one day lament the loss of their grand romance and need to sing a song about him once again on The Other Side Of The Mirror. So BOOM ! The song was born. Yet another piece of music inspired by Lindsey.

:lol: RTTG wasn't what I had in mind either.

[strandinthewind]

:lol: RTTG wasn't what I had in mind either.


Interestingly, I think in her own way - she sees herself that way (a deadly flower or bella donna), which makes the song, which clearly is about R.'s daughter, personal to her. I think it is sort of the same for B&B. I think that song is about the movie but somewhere in there she saw her her relationship with Mick and drew an anaology. I think the two are consistent and not mutually exclusive ideas. Stevie is rarely black or white; instead she is all about shades of grey - even while running throuigh the garden in brilliant colors :cool:

[glitter_fades]

unless you have some fact to back that up - that is your opinion :cool:



which she repeatedly and consistently has said for like 5 years is about Mick not Lindsey no matter how many times you say it is about LB :wavey:

You're the quote expert. Please show us all where Stevie said BATB is ABOUT Mick. I'd be very interested to read that. Forget liner notes that say FOR Mick or any quote about inspiration. I'm sure she got inspiration from Mick after being dumped by him and feeling betrayed when he hooked up with her good friend. If there's a quote where she states, unequivocally, Mick is the beautiful beast or that Mick is the person she refers to in the song, I'll get on board with everyone who thinks everything Stevie says about her songs is complete literal truth. I showed you what she talked about in being touched by the story of BATB, according to her own description in the '81 RS interview. None of the things she talked about in that interview is relatable to what we know about Mick's personality or character traits, or about the dynamics of their relationship. I showed you several posts from different people who noted in detail the S&L relationship in terms directly relatable to BATB as she described to RS. Some of the same people who posted observations about S&L's incompatibility and the captor/captive dynamic to their lifestyle when they lived together still believe Mick is the beast in the song? :shrug:

Stevie's actually the beast in the final analysis, but throughout the song she sings to and about a misunderstood beast that kept a girl prisoner out of love and then finally gave her a chance to get away and return by choice once she understood the totality and nature of his awkwardly expressed love. If Stevie had never said one word about that song, and you only had to go by the story itself, would it make sense to insist Mick is the other person she's singing to/about? OK, some people believe his looks are the issue that indicate he is a beast. That's very shallow of Stevie, if true, but I wonder how anyone can honestly believe she'd refer to someone as a beast because of their looks. My belief is BATB is mostly about Stevie trying to better understand herself by reflecting on past experiences. Her bad experience with Mick hit home very hard upon the heels of a few other experiences/relationships. That led her to a deeper understanding of herself and to feel some compassion for the misunderstood beast she hurt and likely felt she understood but did not know how to help until it was too late.

[dissention]

You and Michael Jackson.

I'm glad to know you hold me in the same esteem as Michael Jackson. :laugh:

[dissention]

I am wondering when someone is going to posit that Johnny and Ray Cash wrote "I Still Miss Someone" in a psychic flash forward about Lindsey Buckingham. They visualized the future, they pictured Lindsey, they knew all about him and Stevie and knew she would one day lament the loss of their grand romance and need to sing a song about him once again on The Other Side Of The Mirror. So BOOM ! The song was born. Yet another piece of music inspired by Lindsey.

:laugh:

You're such a bitch.

[strandinthewind]

You're the quote expert. Please show us all where Stevie said BATB is ABOUT Mick. I'd be very interested to read that. Forget liner notes that say FOR Mick or any quote about inspiration. I'm sure she got inspiration from Mick after being dumped by him and feeling betrayed when he hooked up with her good friend. If there's a quote where she states, unequivocally, Mick is the beautiful beast or that Mick is the person she refers to in the song, I'll get on board with everyone who thinks everything Stevie says about her songs is complete literal truth. I showed you what she talked about in being touched by the story of BATB, according to her own description in the '81 RS interview. None of the things she talked about in that interview is relatable to what we know about Mick's personality or character traits, or about the dynamics of their relationship. I showed you several posts from different people who noted in detail the S&L relationship in terms directly relatable to BATB as she described to RS. Some of the same people who posted observations about S&L's incompatibility and the captor/captive dynamic to their lifestyle when they lived together still believe Mick is the beast in the song? :shrug:

Stevie's actually the beast in the final analysis, but throughout the song she sings to and about a misunderstood beast that kept a girl prisoner out of love and then finally gave her a chance to get away and return by choice once she understood the totality and nature of his awkwardly expressed love. If Stevie had never said one word about that song, and you only had to go by the story itself, would it make sense to insist Mick is the other person she's singing to/about? OK, some people believe his looks are the issue that indicate he is a beast. That's very shallow of Stevie, if true, but I wonder how anyone can honestly believe she'd refer to someone as a beast because of their looks. My belief is BATB is mostly about Stevie trying to better understand herself by reflecting on past experiences. Her bad experience with Mick hit home very hard upon the heels of a few other experiences/relationships. That led her to a deeper understanding of herself and to feel some compassion for the misunderstood beast she hurt and likely felt she understood but did not know how to help until it was too late.

I think B&B is about the movie and I have never said any differently :shrug:

What said then and say now is I think as she was writing it about the movie (which obviously moved her), she thought in that romantic head of hers that "gee this story is similar to my relationship with Mick." The reason I think that is because she said as much on the Timespace liner notes :wavey: How are those two ideas inconsistent? The song can be about the movie and a little bit about how she sees her relationship with Mick. If they cannot be about both, then I am waiting for that explanation. Also, this explanation is 100% consistent with your statement:

My belief is BATB is mostly about Stevie trying to better understand herself by reflecting on past experiences. Her bad experience with Mick hit home very hard upon the heels of a few other experiences/relationships. That led her to a deeper understanding of herself and to feel some compassion for the misunderstood beast she hurt and likely felt she understood but did not know how to help until it was too late.

[glitter_fades]

I think B&B is about the movie and I have never said any differently :shrug:

What said then and say now is I think as she was writing it about the movie (which obviously moved her), she thought in that romantic head of hers that "gee this story is similar to my relationship with Mick." The reason I think that is because she said as much on the Timespace liner notes :wavey: How are those two ideas inconsistent? The song can be about the movie and a little bit about how she sees her relationship with Mick. If they cannot be about both, then I am waiting for that explanation.

Works for me...just like EOS is ABOUT her Uncle and John Lennon. :lol:

Are we having fun yet? :xoxo:

:wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Works for me...just like EOS is ABOUT Uncle John and John Lennon. :lol:

Are we having fun yet? :xoxo:

:wavey:

well it is humorous - your craziness that is :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Again, I think those two are in EO17 - you seem to think she says that song is only about them, which she has never really said :shrug: But, I think you like to argue this and so do I - so there we have it.\

On edit - I am still waiting for you to explain why B&B cannot be written about the characters in the movie and simultaneously about:

My belief is BATB is mostly about Stevie trying to better understand herself by reflecting on past experiences. Her bad experience with Mick hit home very hard upon the heels of a few other experiences/relationships. That led her to a deeper understanding of herself and to feel some compassion for the misunderstood beast she hurt and likely felt she understood but did not know how to help until it was too late.

which to me is the same as her saying her relationship with Mick is somewhere in that song.

[sparky]

:laugh:

You're such a bitch.

Coming from you, I take that as a compliment of the highest order.
:wavey:

[glitter_fades]

well it is humorous - your craziness that is :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Again, I think those two are in EO17 - you seem to think she says that song is only about them, which she has never really said :shrug: But, I think you like to argue this and so do I - so there we have it.

:nod: You know I like playing devil's advocate just for the sake of a good discussion :nod:

Seriously, you hit upon the exact thing we differ about most of the time...the literal meaning of SN songs...if there is any literal meaning in any of them. :laugh: Sometimes she gives little explanations of her process in writing a song, and she drops hints about inspiration now and then. Rarely does she say this song means this. She also tells us to read between her lines...go read the story, or think about it...just to name a few things that hint at what she wants people to know about her meaning. I don't insist any song is about XY or Z. You know I like to argue so I toss out the cookies and wait to see who takes a bite. ;) I can always depend on you. :)

[dissention]

Coming from you, I take that as a compliment of the highest order.
:wavey:

Most definitely. It's nothing if not a glowing compliment. ;)

[strandinthewind]

Coming from you, I take that as a compliment of the highest order.
:wavey:

I could thought of worse :p :p :p :p brand of ketchup :eek:

[strandinthewind]

:nod: You know I like playing devil's advocate just for the sake of a good discussion :nod:

Seriously, you hit upon the exact thing we differ about most of the time...the literal meaning of SN songs...if there is any literal meaning in any of them. :laugh: Sometimes she gives little explanations of her process in writing a song, and she drops hints about inspiration now and then. Rarely does she say this song means this. She also tells us to read between her lines...go read the story, or think about it...just to name a few things that hint at what she wants people to know about her meaning. I don't insist any song is about XY or Z. You know I like to argue so I toss out the cookies and wait to see who takes a bite. ;) I can always depend on you. :)

WHO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

My fav. explanation of hers ever is the one for Doing the Best That I Can (Escpape from Berlin) - let see if I can find it.

[strandinthewind]

Here it is:

"That song certainly could have been said in a lot harder terms. And I could have sounded a lot angrier. The music could have been a lot angrier behind it. But I chose to make it more poignant as opposed to you know, like if I had been speaking all those words, I probably would have been yelling. So, 'doing the best that I can,' in the hardest of terms, means 'get off my back,' basically. I'm doing the best that I can. And I have been doing the best that I can for as long as I can remember, so either give me a break or leave me alone. And it's a very serious song for me... I mean, it's sad: 'in my distress/I wanted someone to blame me/in my own way, disaster was the only thing that I could depend on.' I mean, that's pretty much down in the very depths of despair. Which is where I pretty much was when I wrote this song; which meant, I cannot take all of this advice and keep on living with all of you. You've got to let me grow up and leave me to make my own decisions. I'm a grown up. I'm not a child."
~Stevie Nicks, Castle Walls interview

"I wrote this song to tell people that yes, I did suffer, and I have suffered but that I refuse to let the bad parts ruin my life and the good parts of my life be erased. So I said I'm just going to simply remove the bad parts and I'm coming out of a phase now, I think, where I was unhappy, and I was very lonely and I didn't feel if I exactly knew if I should still be here or not. Maybe I would be better off on the next plain, living a much more spiritual life, maybe. Saying 'in my distress, I wanted someone to blame me,' because people would go around me and like if I did something that wasn't right, they'd take the blame for it or they'd get me out of it. I'd get to the point where I'd go 'just get mad at me, it's my fault. I did it, nobody else did. I did it. Why are you blaming somebody else?' And it says 'in my devastation I wanted so much to change.' I did, I wanted so much to be happier because I was becoming more unhappy by the day and in my own way they only thing I had to depend on was disaster because it seemed like nobody would get off my back, nobody would leave me alone, nobody would keep their opinions to themselves. It was like most of the people I know are quite a bit younger than I am and I would want to say to them, 'you haven't been through what I've gone through, so please stop telling me what I should do!' It means let me do what I have to do. This is not your problem, this is my problem."
~Stevie Nicks, 1989


taken from http://www.sararhiannon.com/tosotmalbum.htm (lord love ya doll and thanks as always!!! )

[dissention]

I could thought of worse :p :p :p :p brand of ketchup :eek:

Uggggggggggggggggggggggggggh. I hate that word. ;) :cool:

[strandinthewind]

Uggggggggggggggggggggggggggh. I hate that word. ;) :cool:

I love that word

[Johnny Stew]

I think he made a very grand gesture. Do you think Stevie ever realized that?

As for firming up her decsion to leave him, you might be right.
Do you think she ever regretted that decision?
Do you think she ever wrote a song about it?Mojo Magazine, December 2003:

"I look at (Lindsey) now and just go, 'Oh, Stevie, you made a mistake!'"

[ontheEdgeof17]

Mojo Magazine, December 2003:

"I look at (Lindsey) now and just go, 'Oh, Stevie, you made a mistake!'"


Made a mistake how? By dating him in the first place or letting him go? :p



:devil's advocate:

[dissention]

I love that word

You're trash, I expect it. :p

[glitter_fades]

Mojo Magazine, December 2003:

"I look at (Lindsey) now and just go, 'Oh, Stevie, you made a mistake!'" :nod:


Oddly enough, someone earlier implied this was one of the rare times she didn't mean this the way it sounds or reads. :confused: She's just being tounge-in-cheek that time. She only really means the negative things she reflects on about LB. She only says good things because as we know..."I only say what you want to hear." :angel:

[dissention]

:nod:


Oddly enough, someone earlier implied this was one of the rare times she didn't mean this the way it sounds or reads. :confused: She's just being tounge-in-cheek that time. She only really means the negative things she reflects on about LB. She only says good things because as we know..."I only say what you want to hear." :angel:

Because when there is a conflict, she stays clear. :rolleyes:

One of the funniest lines she's ever written. I have a hard time believing that stout little drama queen steers clear of conflict. She wouldn't be able to write a single one of her bloody songs if she did.

[dudden22]

Here it is:

you know, like if I had been speaking all those words

and like if I did something that wasn't right,

It was like most of the people I know are quite a bit younger than I am and I

She says "you know" and "like" so much it drives me crazy. She must have said "you know" 100 times during behind the music.

[Johnny Stew]

I don't think Stevie's ever really been "negative" in things she's said about Lindsey. The most biting comments were made during the Klonopin Years, of course, and she has since admitted that she apologized to a lot of people after kicking the Klonopin, for the things she said and did while addicted to it. She took responsibility for her actions, owned up to them and apologized for them.

But, even then, her comments at the time sounded to me (and I admit to having a bit of a bias) that she was simply being candid about how SHE felt during those years, and how things he did made her feel.
Of course she couldn't comment on how the things she did in turn made HIM feel, because she's not him and wouldn't know. Those comments would have to come from him.

I don't think Lindsey was the bad guy. I don't think Stevie was the bad guy. In fact, I don't think there was a "bad guy" -- just two relatively young people, trying to navigate their way through life, careers, romantic relationships, fame, etc.
Who doesn't screw up royally now and then, even without the added baggage of wealth and mass adulation?

That they can work together now and tour together for two years, says a lot about each of them as people and about their relationship (I'm not implying a torrid love affair with that statement though -- so no wrong ideas).
Expecting them to get along 100% of the time is unrealistic... they'll always have a complicated relationship. But they are in each other's lives, when they could very easily have gone the route of never seeing or speaking to each other again (Michelle & John Phillips, for example).

Here's how I look at it: If Lindsey were an awful, violent, jealous bastard, then Stevie wouldn't have anything to do with him.
If Stevie were a calculating, spiteful, vindictive bitch, then Lindsey wouldn't have anything to do with her.

And if either of them exhibited some of that behaviour in the past, well, then, that's all water under the bridge now, and the two people that behaviour would have affected most, have obviously matured since then and have forgiven each other.

Ok, time to head off to work! :D

[Johnny Stew]

Because when there is a conflict, she stays clear. :rolleyes:

One of the funniest lines she's ever written. I have a hard time believing that stout little drama queen steers clear of conflict. She wouldn't be able to write a single one of her bloody songs if she did.Drama Queens can sniff each other out a mile away. ;) :laugh:

[Kelly]

unless you have some fact to back that up - that is your opinion :cool:



which she repeatedly and consistently has said for like 5 years is about Mick not Lindsey no matter how many times you say it is about LB :wavey:


Yea, ok.....I have my opinions on BC but BaTB? She has hardly repeatedly and consistently said it is about Mick. Or are three or four times repeating the story about how he was there when filming the thing what you are talking about?

[Kelly]

Interestingly, I think in her own way - she sees herself that way (a deadly flower or bella donna), which makes the song, which clearly is about R.'s daughter, personal to her. I think it is sort of the same for B&B. I think that song is about the movie but somewhere in there she saw her her relationship with Mick and drew an anaology. I think the two are consistent and not mutually exclusive ideas. Stevie is rarely black or white; instead she is all about shades of grey - even while running throuigh the garden in brilliant colors :cool:

Oh but this is your opinion! Unless you have some facts to back it up..how do you know Stevie is shades of gray? :blob1:

[strandinthewind]

Yea, ok.....I have my opinions on BC but BaTB? She has hardly repeatedly and consistently said it is about Mick. Or are three or four times repeating the story about how he was there when filming the thing what you are talking about?


First of all, I was being tongue in cheek because you asked me for my proof on BC a few days ago, which I willingly admitted I did not have though this was discussed awhile back on Nancy's board :shrug:

Lastly, please show me where she has ever refuted the Timespace liner notes :shrug: Thus, I have actual proof that Mick is somewhere in there. To my knowledge, you have no proof at all that (1) Mick is not or (2) the song is about LB :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

Oh but this is your opinion! Unless you have some facts to back it up..how do you know Stevie is shades of gray? :blob1:

Because she says we must read between her lines and that she never tells all of her secrets though she seems to be doing so lately. Next :wavey:

But, of course that was my opinion. That is why I started it with "I think" - but that does not in any way obviate that she has specifically and clearly said Mick is part of that song.

[Kelly]

First of all, I was being tongue in cheek because you asked me for my proof on BC a few days ago, which I willingly admitted I did not have though this was discussed awhile back on Nancy's board :shrug:

Lastly, please show me where she has ever refuted the Timespace liner notes :shrug: Thus, I have actual proof that Mick is somewhere in there. To my knowledge, you have no proof at all that (1) Mick is not or (2) the song is about LB :shrug:

I know you were, I forgot to put a smiling dude or whatever. I hardly take what is printed in the linear notes as proof beyond a reasonable doubt. She says written FOR not ABOUT. You can make that distinction with Landslide but apparently not BaTB. Cool.

[glitter_fades]

you have no proof at all that (1) Mick is not or (2) the song is about LB :shrug:

I showed plenty of proof on both. You say the movie is what the song is about. OK, sure.
I say it's about Stevie kicking herself in the ass. That get's my #1 vote!

So we still can't get to the bottom of who is the beauty and who is the beast? So far the CSF have more proof than the CH who insist the Timespace liner notes written at the high of her Klonipin haze are the gospel. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

I know you were, I forgot to put a smiling dude or whatever. I hardly take what is printed in the linear notes as proof beyond a reasonable doubt. She says written FOR not ABOUT. You can make that distinction with Landslide but apparently not BaTB. Cool.


ACK - I was like "Kelly is yelling at me :eek: " :laugh:

As for B&B - I think it is different from Landslide. I think it makes sense that in Landslide, she was pondering changes in her life and her parents' offer, LB, their dream, and the music industry were part of those changes. So, she was never inconsistent in her explanation. As for B&B, she has repeatedly said she wrote the song about the characters in the movie - then she says Mick is in there somewhere because the plot of the movie reminded her of her realtionship with him. She did not say it reminded her of her relationship with LB - though I am sure he is in there somewhere in some general way. Again, I am just going by what she said.

[Rumour0323]

Oy Vey....Strandie.....come on. You must at least admit that yes, Mick is in there, as is the movie, but the overriding message of the song is....after being dumped by Mick for her best friend, and after seeing the movie, she thinks to herself.....well I deserved that...(getting dumped)...I loved him (Mick...put your hand over your mouth Kelly :p ) and he dumped me. She is a Beast....just like Beauty! Lindsey let her go....that is what she wanted and so he did it, even though it took him ten years and finally leaving the band do get over it, he let her go....that was the gift. Getting dumped by Mick and possibly some others as well, gave her a taste of her own medicine and I think BATB is... if nothing else... maybe an apology...yes to Lindsey...but to all the others she so callously cast aside along the way. I also think that she is, in addition, giving Lindsey his props for what he does with her music, in the line...."There is no beauty, without my beast." So she also says ....and I do appreciate that even tho I left you, you continue to help me even though I know it sometimes pains you to do so. So is the song ABOUT any one person or thing? No....but how all of those things made HER feel.

Now.... when she was singing it in Las Vegas? That was ....IMHO....all FOR Lindsey. Like if you never got the message before buddy, I am telling you now, and maybe she was speaking to both of them. Mick and Lindsey...doesn't seem to me that Mick was all that concerned about it...I don't think the same could be said for the mystery man in the upper mezzanine.

[strandinthewind]

I showed plenty of proof on both. You say the movie is what the song is about. OK, sure.
I say it's about Stevie kicking herself in the ass. That get's my #1 vote! QUOTE]

Me too and she is, as she said, kicking herself because she was hurt by the Mick relationship. But, that does not obviate her point that the poem originally was about the characters in the film. I think either while writing it or thereafter she came to this analogy.

[QUOTE=glitter_fades]So we still can't get to the bottom of who is the beauty and who is the beast? So far the CSF have more proof than the CH who insist the Timespace liner notes written at the high of her Klonipin haze are the gospel. :laugh:

And your proof again is what - cuz I aint seen none yet other than your speculation. AND - btw - please let me know which of the other liner notes are so patently false because I think they all sound true to me :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Oy Vey....Strandie.....come on. You must at least admit that yes, Mick is in there, as is the movie, but the overriding message of the song is....after being dumped by Mick for her best friend, and after seeing the movie, she thinks to herself.....well I deserved that...(getting dumped)...I loved him (Mick...put your hand over your mouth Kelly :p ) and he dumped me. She is a Beast....just like Beauty! Lindsey let her go....that is what she wanted and so he did it, even though it took him ten years and finally leaving the band do get over it, he let her go....that was the gift. Getting dumped by Mick and possibly some others as well, gave her a taste of her own medicine and I think BATB is... if nothing else... maybe an apology...yes to Lindsey...but to all the others she so callously cast aside along the way. I also think that she is, in addition, giving Lindsey his props for what he does with her music, in the line...."There is no beauty, without my beast." So she also says ....and I do appreciate that even tho I left you, you continue to help me even though I know it sometimes pains you to do so. So is the song ABOUT any one person or thing? No....but how all of those things made HER feel.

Now.... when she was singing it in Las Vegas? That was ....IMHO....all FOR Lindsey. Like if you never got the message before buddy, I am telling you now, and maybe she was speaking to both of them. Mick and Lindsey...doesn't seem to me that Mick was all that concerned about it...I don't think the same could be said for the mystery man in the upper mezzanine.


I just do not see LB in this song. I think that is incorrect except in a general sense that the song is about lamented love and the action which brought on that lamentation, which LB certainly fits. Again, Mick's actions are irrelevant to Stevie's interpretation of them :shrug: I also think people are taking the lines realted to the movie, which she wrote the song about, and extrapolating them too far - but to each their own.

BTW - is Storms about LB too - because based on your model it could be :wavey:

[glitter_fades]

:xoxo: AND - btw - please let me know which of the other liner notes are so patently false because I think they all sound true to me :wavey:

You don't know how giddy this makes me! :D :D :D :D Come into my web. ;)

There is one blatant falsehood on TISL liner notes, and I think there could be another. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to find said falsehoods and report back to us before Stevie let's the BATB cat out of the bag once and for all. :lol: :xoxo:

[dudden22]

:xoxo: [QUOTE=strandinthewind]

There is one blatant falsehood on TISL liner notes, and I think there could be another.


Do share ;)

[strandinthewind]

:xoxo:

You don't know how giddy this makes me! :D :D :D :D Come into my web. ;)

There is one blatant falsehood on TISL liner notes, and I think there could be another. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to find said falsehoods and report back to us before Stevie let's the BATB cat out of the bag once and for all. :lol: :xoxo:


She was Klonopin during TISL?

[Rumour0323]

I just do not see LB in this song. I think that is incorrect except in a general sense that the song is about lamented love and the action which brought on that lamentation, which LB certainly fits. Again, Mick's actions are irrelevant to Stevie's interpretation of them :shrug: I also think people are taking the lines realted to the movie, which she wrote the song about, and extrapolating them too far - but to each their own.



BTW - is Storms about LB too - because based on your model it could be :wavey:



Ok to the first part, and I agree. I just don't see Stevie as the type of songwriter that sees a movie or reads Rappuchini's daughter and decides to write a song about it...without it somehow relating to her personal life that's all. I also think that just like her songs touch us and make us think of someone special I am quite certain they may do the same for her. I think of this often when I hear her perform....HAEWAFY. I know she wrote that for Joe but is that necessarily who it reminds her of now....when she sings it. I don't know.

Is Storms about LB? No dammit....and I so want it to be. I do think he may be the line where she says "and I did not deal with you I know....tho the love has always been"... almost as if she is looking at her now second member of the band that has gone out of her life and in writing about the current one, the former one comes into view and she says...oh yeah....and you too. I did not deal with you either. You know that whole stream of consiousness thing that Lindsey always talks about with regards to her writing.

[Rumour0323]

:xoxo:

You don't know how giddy this makes me! :D :D :D :D Come into my web. ;)

There is one blatant falsehood on TISL liner notes, and I think there could be another. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to find said falsehoods and report back to us before Stevie let's the BATB cat out of the bag once and for all. :lol: :xoxo:

****rushes off to get TISL cd case out of the trunk of my car. :blob1:

[strandinthewind]

****rushes off to get TISL cd case out of the trunk of my car. :blob1:


I did not even know we were dicussing TISL - I was responding to the comment about the TS liner noted being Klonopin induced and, therefore, unreliable :shrug: to wit:

So we still can't get to the bottom of who is the beauty and who is the beast? So far the CSF have more proof than the CH who insist the Timespace liner notes written at the high of her Klonipin haze are the gospel. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Ok to the first part, and I agree. I just don't see Stevie as the type of songwriter that sees a movie or reads Rappuchini's daughter and decides to write a song about it...without it somehow relating to her personal life that's all . . . .

Well, she kind of is in a way. But, of course she relates personally to these songs and the stories they were based on. If not, why would she write about them :shrug: But, more to my point, I do not think B&B is specifically about LB. I take her at her word and think it mostly is about how she saw her relationship with Mick as similar to the relationship between B&B. BTW - there was an outtake and also several interviews that indicate La Nicks was swept away by the movie - so much so that she advocated otheres working with her see it and its hopeless romantic nature. So, she was pretty moved by it.

[Rumour0323]

I did not even know we were dicussing TISL - I was responding to the comment about the TS liner noted being Klonopin induced and, therefore, unreliable :shrug:


This is in response to Glitter see above.

[strandinthewind]

This is in response to Glitter see above.

GOTCHA and edited my post to comply :cool:

[GardenStateGirlie]

BTW - is Storms about LB too - because based on your model it could be :wavey:

Actually, it is partially involving LB, IMO. She's discussing both relationships in that song. If you listen to the demo, at the very end of the song she says, "betrayal" (not trail). In being with Mick, she's betraying Lindsey and she's betraying her band, etc. I think it's about both Mick and about Lindsey. The ever elusive Stevie Nicks.

[glitter_fades]

I take her at her word and think it mostly is about how she saw her relationship with Mick as similar to the relationship between B&B.

What word? Where did she ever say these words?

:confused:

[Highway Woman]

Good Lord these things are starting to be a painful stretch. That song is based on Rappaccini's Daughter by Nathaniel Hawthorne. Those lyrics are an exact reflection of a story point in the novella. I seriously doubt the song has anything to do with anything else.
I am wondering when someone is going to posit that Johnny and Ray Cash wrote "I Still Miss Someone" in a psychic flash forward about Lindsey Buckingham. They visualized the future, they pictured Lindsey, they knew all about him and Stevie and knew she would one day lament the loss of their grand romance and need to sing a song about him once again on The Other Side Of The Mirror. So BOOM ! The song was born. Yet another piece of music inspired by Lindsey.

Stevie did say she picked that song because it reminds her of Lindsey. Funny coincidence.

[strandinthewind]

What word? Where did she ever say these words?

:confused:


I am sorry - you are not making sense anymore :wavey: So, your mission, should you chose to accept it, is to go back and re read everything she ever said and then listen to the interviews again :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Stevie did say she picked that song because it reminds her of Lindsey. Funny coincidence.

and his beautiful blue eyes and how she missed them to wit:

"When I went to Australia with Bob Dylan and Tom Petty, I asked Bob Dylan if he had written Blue Eyes because I thought he had written it about Joan Baez. And it...he said, 'No, I didn't write it, I...but I know who wrote it, Ian and Sylvia wrote it.' So I, of course, believed Bob, and Bob, of course, believed in what he was saying. And now I've been told in the last two weeks that in fact, Ian and Sylvia did not write it and that Johnny Cash and somebody wrote it. So I don't know...I can not actually sit here and tell you who wrote this song. But the reason that I did this song was because I've been singing it since I was about 16, 17 years old. And I mean, I'm not sure if the words are exactly right. There may have been more verses. There may have been a different kind of bridge. I don't, I don't know. Because this is just what has lived on in my heart since I was, since I was really pretty little girl. All I, all I knew was that I loved it. And I loved, (singing) 'I never got over those blue eyes' (speaking) 'I see them everywhere.' And I never forgot those words. I mean, I probably never forgot those words because of Lindsey and those beautiful, beautiful blue eyes." ~ Stevie on I Still Miss Someone

http://burnish.net/disc/tosotm.php

[Rumour0323]

Well, she kind of is in a way. But, of course she relates personally to these songs and the stories they were based on. If not, why would she write about them :shrug: But, more to my point, I do not think B&B is specifically about LB. I take her at her word and think it mostly is about how she saw her relationship with Mick as similar to the relationship between B&B. BTW - there was an outtake and also several interviews that indicate La Nicks was swept away by the movie - so much so that she advocated otheres working with her see it and its hopeless romantic nature. So, she was pretty moved by it.


Ok one more and this is it and only because I left something out I wanted to add.

Someone pointed out earlier that Lindsey....the control freak..the overbearing brute, that he was. In the end did in fact make a grand gesture to prove his love to her....he let her go. He gave her what she wanted. Just as the Beast did when he let Beauty return home to see her dying father.....but the Beast tells her....that if she does not return by the 7th day...he will die.
It is not too much of a stretch for me to think that Lindsey could have told Stevie....hey....if you ever change your mind you know where I am.

In the movie Beauty waits one day too long...she pushes just a little too hard...and it results in his death. Something tells me Stevie waited a little too long to before she may have in fact tried to reconcile with Lindsey. Thus she recognized herself as the Beast.

I wish I was as good at this as you guys are...but I'm not....but there is a great quote I have in a book at home that says....

Why is it that some people, don't realize
Until it is too late
That in order to get back home
All they have to do is turn around

I think BATB may be Stevie's realization of that very fact. But I won't try to convince you of that anymore. :(

[Kelly]

It is not only the CSF who have these feelings about BaTB. You keep saying you take La Nicks at her word...I have yet to see or hear where she said that she wrote the song for or about Mick. Or that she related the movie to her relationship with Mick. We have the TS linear notes that say "for" not about. And the comments about how he stayed with her while she took photos. Sounds like what she does with SB..tells the story surrounding the song instead of delving into the meaning of the song.

Suz....you know I have always thought Storms was about that crazy man Mick. Sad but true. :distress:

[strandinthewind]

I get all of tha and that may be in there who knows. But, she has never said it and has instead chosen to say it is about Mick. If you all want to believe it is all about LB and Stevie is lying - go right on ahead :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

It is not only the CSF who have these feelings about BaTB. You keep saying you take La Nicks at her word...I have yet to see or hear where she said that she wrote the song for or about Mick. Or that she related the movie to her relationship with Mick. We have the TS linear notes that say "for" not about. And the comments about how he stayed with her while she took photos. Sounds like what she does with SB..tells the story surrounding the song instead of delving into the meaning of the song.

Suz....you know I have always thought Storms was about that crazy man Mick. Sad but true. :distress:

Again and for the last time, I am not now nor have I ever said it was about Mick - so stop saying that. I am saying she wrote it about the movie and projected her feelings into it about the similarities in her relationship with Mick. She never said it was in any way about LB. If that bothers you, call La Nicks :laugh:

[Kelly]

Again and for the last time, I am not now nor have I ever said it was about Mick - so stop saying that. I am saying she wrote it about the movie and projected her feelings into it about the similarities in her relationship with Mick. She never said it was in any way about LB. If that bothers you, call La Nicks :laugh:


You got her number? I would love to ask her a few things. I will start with, "why is there talk by your bro and Don that FM has tossed in the towel" and then I will work my way into BaTB and who it is about. K? :lol:

[Rumour0323]

Suz....you know I have always thought Storms was about that crazy man Mick. Sad but true. :distress:

Oh God Kel...I know you about fell off your chair on that one....Don't hate me. She who shall remain nameless will bash me over the head for that one too. :lol:

[glitter_fades]

I am sorry - you are not making sense anymore :wavey: So, your mission, should you chose to accept it, is to go back and re read everything she ever said and then listen to the interviews again :wavey:

You keep saying she said such and such. Where or when did she ever say BATB is her comparing her relationship with Mick to the relationship between BATB? We all agree she was inspired by what happened in their relationship. The demo words about betrayal, mentioned by somebody else, are not part of your assessment but they sure fit mine. You make assumptions based on Mick appearing in a video during the coke and booze days (did you know SN went to rehab right after that RR video was made?) and you draw assumptions based on nuanced things written in the Klonipin liner notes, or notions about interviews in which she never said the things you assume.

I'm the one not making sense? :lol:

:xoxo:

[GardenStateGirlie]

Over time, I think certain songs develop new meanings and relevance to her. So, even if B&TB were written about Mick (which I don't believe it's 100% about him), it may now, in performing it in Vegas and in just thinking about him, hold more of a relevance to her relationship with Lindsey as opposed to her relationship with Mick at this time in her life. Same goes for many other songs as well. JMO. Everyday wasn't written by her and either were a few of the other songs on TISL but they were put on the album and arranged in a certain order for a reason. Who says B&TB can't hold more of a significant meaning to her now moreso than ever just as songs not written by her but put on her album can't hold a meaning?

[strandinthewind]

You got her number? I would love to ask her a few things. I will start with, "why is there talk by your bro and Don that FM has tossed in the towel" and then I will work my way into BaTB and who it is about. K? :lol:


I know - oh to have caught her in Vegas hot at a card table to where she couldn't leave. I would then proffer my questionaire with 30 questions and four subparts each :laugh:

[Rumour0323]

Dang forget BATB...someone go get the TISL liner notes and lets get to the bottom of this falsehood thingy. :blob1:

[Sugar]

I don't really want to get into this, but I just wanted to point out the editing in, I think, the Red Rocks vid for BATB how nearly everytime she sings "beast" it cuts to a shot of Mick and every time she sings "beauty" it cuts to a shot of her. And there t'aint nuttin subtle about it!

[strandinthewind]

You keep saying she said such and such. Where or when did she ever say BATB is her comparing her relationship with Mick to the relationship between BATB? We all agree she was inspired by what happened in their relationship. The demo words about betrayal, mentioned by somebody else, are not part of your assessment but they sure fit mine. You make assumptions based on Mick appearing in a video during the coke and booze days (did you know SN went to rehab right after that RR video was made?) and you draw assumptions based on nuanced things written in the Klonipin liner notes, or notions about interviews in which she never said the things you assume.

I'm the one not making sense? :lol:

:xoxo:


No - you are not listening now :laugh: I think B&B is about the movie and then she related it to her personal life. Please show me where I said anything differently?

[strandinthewind]

I don't really want to get into this, but I just wanted to point out the editing in, I think, the Red Rocks vid for BATB how nearly everytime she sings "beast" it cuts to a shot of Mick and every time she sings "beauty" it cuts to a shot of her. And there t'aint nuttin subtle about it!

I love you :wavey: :wavey:

Comments anyone?

[strandinthewind]

Dang forget BATB...someone go get the TISL liner notes and lets get to the bottom of this falsehood thingy. :blob1:

I am on my way home now to do so :cool: Back in a few hours :woohoo:

[glitter_fades]

If you all want to believe

Stevie is lying - go right on ahead :laugh:


You'd insist on going down with the ship even if La Nicks called you personally and confessed BATB is not about her and Mick,
cuz you know I'm just waiting in the wings to say, "see...LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :p

:sorry: I couldn't resist.

[strandinthewind]

You'd insist on going down with the ship even if La Nicks called you personally and confessed BATB is not about her and Mick,
cuz you know I'm just waiting in the wings to say, "see...LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :p

:sorry: I couldn't resist.


Well, she would not say that so you would miss your big moment :woohoo:

[glitter_fades]

No - you are not listening now :laugh: I think B&B is about the movie and then she related it to her personal life. Please show me where I said anything differently?

We agree, dear. It's about the movie, and YES, she later related it to her personal life. :nod:

:D

[GardenStateGirlie]

I love you :wavey: :wavey:

Comments anyone?

Much like the SYW doc (which was Lindsey's thing), I highly doubt she had her hand in that (her hand was too busy shoveling a coke spoon up her nose). You're all quick to say time and time again that The Dance and such were edited to showcase Lindsey and Stevie's relationship for sales and whatnot. That may be true but knowing the Rumours era history, why can't a crafty edit of Red Rocks perhaps be displaying something else along those lines?

[GardenStateGirlie]

and YES, she later related it to her personal life. :nod:


In which Lindsey played a part in :wavey:

[Rumour0323]

:xoxo:

You don't know how giddy this makes me! :D :D :D :D Come into my web. ;)

There is one blatant falsehood on TISL liner notes, and I think there could be another. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to find said falsehoods and report back to us before Stevie let's the BATB cat out of the bag once and for all. :lol: :xoxo:


Ok I made my friend fly home to get this thing.....this is the argument that she and I have had all along with regards to TISL....that Tom Petty really had all that much to do with anything ....read these lyrics....

Dreams reoccur in my solitude
Breaking my heart
Imjuring my mood
With all of the things that I thought I knew
It was you
Well the conversation rings in my head

Well you know me better than I know myself
"Can you write this for me?"
He says "No, you write your songs yourself"
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

Well, I remember
You caught my eye
It was late September
It was no surprise
He made me better
His songs were soft and tender sometimes

Well, the conversations ring in my head
I remember everything that we said
All those tears that we shed

Well you know me better than I know myself
"Can you write this for me?"
He says "No, you write your songs yourself"
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

The conversations ring in my head
I remember everything that we said
All those tears that we shed
Don't call me when you're lonely

You know me better than I know myself
"Can you write this for me?"
He says "No, you write your songs yourself"
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

Well you know me better than I know myself
"Can you write this for me?"
He says "No, you write your songs yourself"
He made me stronger
He made me hold on to me

Well, once more I tell the shadows of my soul
To stay back
Everything has changed now
And I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind

Well, once more I tell the shadows of my soul
To stay back
Everything has changed now
And I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind

Oh, I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind
Oh, I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind
Hey, I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind..

I have always thought from the moment that I heard this song...that it was about Lindsey....ok I know big surprise ...but come on...read them.

I think that after hooking up with Lindsey for a short time to do the Twisted soundtrack cut that she went home to try and write a song about him. I do believe that she was having some trouble and may have asked Tom to help her with the song....and that is the part that appears in the chorus. But to me that does not make the song..ABOUT...Tom. I think it is about Lindsey....she just asked Tom to help her write it.

Now that doesn't really fit the description of a "blatant falsehood in the liner notes".....UNLESS.....she really asked Lindsey to help her and couldn't say that in 2001 so she said it was Tom. :shrug:

Anyway....can't wait to read what you guys come up with.

Thanks Stephie for speeding home for me....glad you didn't get another ticket :wavey:

[sparky]

Is Storms about LB? No dammit....and I so want it to be.

Why oh why would such a thing have any importance ?

[lagringader&r]

On a different but related note: what is "Smile At You about?" This whole business of "go on save yourself/leave the key here/you love someone else/I shouldn't be here"---who is she talking to/about? This song was written around the time of Rumours right? Then, if that's true, it couldn't be about Lindsey could it? She broke up with him, unless this was about a brief interlude when they were "on again." I've often wondered... :confused:

This is weird. I was going to mention Smile at You, but decided not to and deleted it before I posted. I found this: from the San Diego Union Tribune, April 17, 2003.

“Two of Nicks' songs, "Smile at You" and "Goodbye Baby," were written in 1975 and '76, and might have ended up on "Rumours" had they been completed in time. The former is clearly aimed at Buckingham, with such pointed lines as: What you did not need / Was a woman who was stronger / You needed someone to depend on you / I could not be her / I did not want to / My first mistake was to smile at you.�

Clearly, she thought they were mismatched and her first mistake was to smile at him. That’s like saying she wishes she’d never met him. This is all about his control issues. He needed someone to depend on him and not a strong woman. She didn’t want to be that person. The relationship ended and it sounds like she wished it had never begun.. :nod:

[GardenStateGirlie]

On the liner notes bit....note how everyone else is credited for their contributions....

Sheryl Crow appears courtesy of A&M records
Macy Gray appears courtesy...
Natalie Maines appears courtesy...
Sarah McLachlan appears courtesy...

Yes, she does thank Lindsey in the liner notes but she also thanks all of those other people as well. Lindsey supposedly was working on GOS at that time and supposedly had a deal with WB (yes?). Apparently not because he's not appearing courtesy of anyone. What was he doing then?? GOS was already finished pretty much and would later be translated to the FM album. Perhaps there was no deal.

[lagringader&r]

Good Lord these things are starting to be a painful stretch. That song is based on Rappaccini's Daughter by Nathaniel Hawthorne. Those lyrics are an exact reflection of a story point in the novella. I seriously doubt the song has anything to do with anything else.
I am wondering when someone is going to posit that Johnny and Ray Cash wrote "I Still Miss Someone" in a psychic flash forward about Lindsey Buckingham. They visualized the future, they pictured Lindsey, they knew all about him and Stevie and knew she would one day lament the loss of their grand romance and need to sing a song about him once again on The Other Side Of The Mirror. So BOOM ! The song was born. Yet another piece of music inspired by Lindsey.

I don’t think it’s a stretch at all. I’m not going to post the entire song, but these lyrics in particular make me think it’s a form of an apology or regret for hurting him:.

And so you run toward what you know is wrong (not meant to be)
There are too many flowers (problems, issues)
To cut down (to get past)
With all the love I have for your life (I care about you and your life)
For the love I have for your lifeTurn around... (Leave, go)

Never did I mean to imprison you (I didn’t mean to hurt you)
Here in my garden
Like I am imprisoned (Like I hurt. Stevie loves her pain)
All the love I have for your life (I care about you and your life)
All the love I have for your life
Turn around (Leave, go)

The inspiration for this song and even for BATB could have come from a movie or a book, but they must have had some significant and personal meaning for Stevie and Mick or Lindsey for her to sit down and write entire songs around them. Something must have rung a bell for her.

[Johnny Stew]

On the liner notes bit....note how everyone else is credited for their contributions....

Sheryl Crow appears courtesy of A&M records
Macy Gray appears courtesy...
Natalie Maines appears courtesy...
Sarah McLachlan appears courtesy...

Yes, she does thank Lindsey in the liner notes but she also thanks all of those other people as well. Lindsey supposedly was working on GOS at that time and supposedly had a deal with WB (yes?). Apparently not because he's not appearing courtesy of anyone. What was he doing then?? GOS was already finished pretty much and would later be translated to the FM album. Perhaps there was no deal.This isn't the case 100% of the time, but I've noticed over the years that if a guest artist is on the same label as the artist whose album they're appearing on, the little "courtesy of" isn't always listed in the liner notes. I guess there's no need to thank a record label in those situations, because it's sort of an "in-house" loan... but some probably just do it anyway.

[sparky]

This obsession with her personal relationships....good f-ing God.
I find it myopic, bizarre, and bordering on neurosis.

[Johnny Stew]

This obsession with her personal relationships....good f-ing God.
I find it myopic, bizarre, and bordering on neurosis.Wouldn't everyone just **** a brick, if it turned out she was writing about that waiter she recently said she had a relationship with? :laugh:

Just to add to that... I'm finding it fascinating that fans would rather call Stevie a bold-faced liar, than accept the fact that a song just might not be about what they want it to be about.

"Stevie says it's about Mick?! BAH! It HAS to be about Lindsey -- and if she says otherwise, then she's lying!" :laugh:

[lagringader&r]

Mojo Magazine, December 2003:

"I look at (Lindsey) now and just go, 'Oh, Stevie, you made a mistake!'"

The sentence before is this one:

"The way he is with his children just knocks me out. I look at him now and just go, Oh, Stevie, you made a mistake!�

That's what I meant about her referring to how he is with his kids. Stevie passed on having kids and I think she really regrets that in a lot of ways. She sees him so happy with his children and I'm sure she feels pangs of regret for passing on the opportunity to have kids of her own. I think his kids probably made him a happier and more toned down man. :thumbsup:

[Kelly]

I think Smile at you is about Don Henley. Just because some reporter assumes that it is clearly about Buckingham, doesnt make it so. With all the other songs she has written about LB, and said were about LB, does it really sound like she never wanted to be with him? That she regretted their relationship? Hardly. "He is my love, my first love, my love for all time,.....I look at him now and go "oh Stevie, you made a mistake"..Mojo 2003. That is hardly tongue in Cheek. (The over my dead body comment was tongue in cheek. )
Listen to Silver Springs, written around the same time as SaY..does she sound like she never wanted to be with him?

[Kelly]

Wouldn't everyone just **** a brick, if it turned out she was writing about that waiter she recently said she had a relationship with? :laugh:

Just to add to that... I'm finding it fascinating that fans would rather call Stevie a bold-faced liar, than accept the fact that a song just might not be about what they want it to be about.

"Stevie says it's about Mick?! BAH! It HAS to be about Lindsey -- and if she says otherwise, then she's lying!" :laugh:

Where does she say its about Mick? For is not the same as about.

[Johnny Stew]

I think Smile at you is about Don Henley. Just because some reporter assumes that it is clearly about Buckingham, doesnt make it so.Henley has always (at least in the past) been painted as a bit of a chauvinist. I've always felt "Smile At You" was about him... "what you did not need was a woman who was stronger -- you needed someone to depend on you."

[GardenStateGirlie]

This obsession with her personal relationships....good f-ing God.
I find it myopic, bizarre, and bordering on neurosis.

Considering that we're all well-educated working women in relationships and have families and friends, I find it highly offensive that you'd say we're bordering on neurosis. Perhaps we should psychoanalyze you instead?

This thread has been doing fine on it's own with discussion that hasn't gotten out of hand. If this thread is chapping your ass so much, why don't you stop reading it instead of interjecting with your smartass comments and witty reparte. Thanks.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Henley has always (at least in the past) been painted as a bit of a chauvinist. I've always felt "Smile At You" was about him... "what you did not need was a woman who was stronger -- you needed someone to depend on you."

Plus that, after all he did to her after they'd stopped seeing one another...you can kind of see why she'd believe her first mistake was to smile at him. I truly think she harbored a lot of anger toward the end of that relationship.

[Johnny Stew]

Where does she say its about Mick? For is not the same as about.No, "for" is not the same as "about"... I pointed that out earlier in this thread, in fact.

I just see a bit of stubborness going on here.
"I don't care who Stevie says she wrote the song for -- this is what I say the song is about, and I'm right!"

Wouldn't it be a little odd if Stevie wrote a song ABOUT Lindsey, FOR Mick??

[GardenStateGirlie]

Wouldn't it be a little odd if Stevie wrote a song ABOUT Lindsey, FOR Mick??

I suppose that all depends on how you view Stevie :laugh: I find her to be a little odd (and not in a bad way). I think many of her songs transition from one thought pattern to the next. If she's looking back in retrospect on a relationship and writing about how she was feeling at the time, I think it's possible for her to write about two to finish the song. JMO of course.

[strandinthewind]

I think Smile at you is about Don Henley . . . .

It is soooooo much nicer when we agree as here!!! It is sooo about Don.

[Kelly]

Yup, about Don. He was and is a tool.

[strandinthewind]

Yup, about Don. He was and is a tool.

a Highwayman, if you will!!!!!!

[lagringader&r]

Ok I made my friend fly home to get this thing.....this is the argument that she and I have had all along with regards to TISL....that Tom Petty really had all that much to do with anything ....read these lyrics....

Dreams reoccur in my solitude
Breaking my heart
Imjuring my mood
With all of the things that I thought I knew
It was you
Well the conversation rings in my head

Well you know me better than I know myself
"Can you write this for me?"
He says "No, you write your songs yourself"
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

Well, I remember
You caught my eye
It was late September
It was no surprise
He made me better
His songs were soft and tender sometimes

Well you know me better than I know myself
"Can you write this for me?"
He says "No, you write your songs yourself"
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

The conversations ring in my head
I remember everything that we said
All those tears that we shed
Don't call me when you're lonely

You know me better than I know myself
"Can you write this for me?"
He says "No, you write your songs yourself"
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

Well you know me better than I know myself
"Can you write this for me?"
He says "No, you write your songs yourself"
He made me stronger
He made me hold on to me

Well, once more I tell the shadows of my soul
To stay back
Everything has changed now
And I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind

Well, once more I tell the shadows of my soul
To stay back
Everything has changed now
And I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind

Oh, I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind
Oh, I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind
Hey, I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind..

I have always thought from the moment that I heard this song...that it was about Lindsey....ok I know big surprise ...but come on...read them.

I think that after hooking up with Lindsey for a short time to do the Twisted soundtrack cut that she went home to try and write a song about him. I do believe that she was having some trouble and may have asked Tom to help her with the song....and that is the part that appears in the chorus. But to me that does not make the song..ABOUT...Tom. I think it is about Lindsey....she just asked Tom to help her write it.

Now that doesn't really fit the description of a "blatant falsehood in the liner notes".....UNLESS.....she really asked Lindsey to help her and couldn't say that in 2001 so she said it was Tom. :shrug:

Anyway....can't wait to read what you guys come up with.

Thanks Stephie for speeding home for me....glad you didn't get another ticket :wavey:

I remember that story about her conversation with Tom. She had just gotten clean and was scared out of her mind. She felt she couldn't do it alone, sober. She asked Tom to help her and he gave her some tough love. He told her she could do it on her own and she didn't need his help. That was a pivotal time for Stevie because she had to prove to herself that she could write and create without the use of drugs and not be a failure. She was determined not to go back to the drugs. Line by line, verse by verse:

Dreams reoccur in my solitude
Breaking my heart
Imjuring my mood
With all of the things that I thought I knew
It was you
Well the conversation rings in my head

This verse is Stevie waking alone after rehab. I can almost picture her in her room, waking up sober and feeling very alone and scared. When she thought back on her life and how messed up she'd been and all the relationships and turmoil she'd been through, she was heartbroken and depressed. She thought of all the things that she *thought* she knew (but didn't), she knew who her friends were. She knew Tom and she starts to remember the conversation with him that would change her life.

Well you know me better than I know myself
"Can you write this for me?"
He says "No, you write your songs yourself"
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me

The one person who wasn't some former lover or someone out to get something from her was Tom. Then she describes the conversation. His tough love made her stronger and helped her to hold on to her, the Stevie that was really Stevie. Not the coked out drug addict she thought she had become. He helped her get back to her.

Well, I remember
You caught my eye
It was late September
It was no surprise
He made me better
His songs were soft and tender sometimes

Obviously, reminiscing about Tom. He made her better and stronger by helping her believe in herself again. His songs were soft and tender sometimes.

The conversations ring in my head
I remember everything that we said
All those tears that we shed
Don't call me when you're lonely

I'm sure there were a lot of tears during that time for Stevie and especially when Tom told her no. She was scared and felt helpless and he was her lifeline. He wanted her to stand on her own two feet and pull it together (Don't call me when you're lonely). She had to.

Well, once more I tell the shadows of my soul
To stay back
Everything has changed now
And I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind

Oh, I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind
Oh, I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind
Hey, I don't want to go back
And nothing you can say can change my mind..

These last two verses are Stevie talking to herself and her demons. "Stay back" and "Everything has changed". "I don't want to go back". This was her inner and outer fight to stay clean once and for all and pull it together.

Tom may have been the most important person in her life at that time. He may have saved her life. We should all be so grateful he was there for her and convinced her that she was still a strong, vibrant, creative woman, on her own and without any help. It made her stronger. Of all the relationships she's had in her life, his might be the most important, even though it wasn't romantic. Because it wasn't romantic, she could turn to him.

I would say this song is totally about Tom and I wouldn't take that away from him or her. It was too important a time in her life to toss it back to Lindsey again or to Mick or to Joe or to anyone else other than the person who was there for her and is largely responsible for her being here for us today.

As for BATB, it's not just the liner notes. She did an interview a few months ago (while not on Klonopin) that people seem to want to brush off, not take seriously or flat out call her a liar? :shrug:

I think BATB is about Mick. If she says it is, I believe her. She wrote it, so she should know. :wavey:

[Kelly]

Maybe I am mistaking the last post but Stevie was in rehab in early 94? and this dinner happened with Tom in 95. I am not sure she was reflecting back to laying in rehab. I do think the conversation was pivotal and provided the push she needed.

I am done arguing BaTB. You all can think what you want. Time will tell.

[lagringader&r]

I think Smile at you is about Don Henley. Just because some reporter assumes that it is clearly about Buckingham, doesnt make it so. With all the other songs she has written about LB, and said were about LB, does it really sound like she never wanted to be with him? That she regretted their relationship? Hardly. "He is my love, my first love, my love for all time,.....I look at him now and go "oh Stevie, you made a mistake"..Mojo 2003. That is hardly tongue in Cheek. (The over my dead body comment was tongue in cheek. )
Listen to Silver Springs, written around the same time as SaY..does she sound like she never wanted to be with him?

Could be about Henley, but I think it just reeks of Lindsey. His girlfriend after Stevie seemed very clingy and needy, which is exactly the type of woman a controlling man needs and wants. Stevie is the opposite of that. She didn't want to be the clingy girlfriend who depended on him. Henley just seemed like an asshole :laugh: I don't know how controlling he was.

I think Stevie could very well have regretted hooking up with Lindsey back then. That was during all the aftermath and it's really easy to think "I wish I'd never met you"! when all that's going on. :nod:

[Johnny Stew]

I suppose that all depends on how you view Stevie :laugh: I find her to be a little odd (and not in a bad way). I think many of her songs transition from one thought pattern to the next. If she's looking back in retrospect on a relationship and writing about how she was feeling at the time, I think it's possible for her to write about two to finish the song. JMO of course.Just as long as no one starts saying that even though Stevie claims "Think About It" was written FOR Christine, it's really ABOUT Lindsey, we should be ok. ;)

[Kelly]

Just as long as no one starts saying that even though Stevie claims "Think About It" was written FOR Christine, it's really ABOUT Lindsey, we should be ok. ;)

Well, now that I think about it....j/k.

No one has changed my mind about BaTB though. :lol:

[strandinthewind]

Maybe I am mistaking the last post but Stevie was in rehab in early 94? and this dinner happened with Tom in 95. I am not sure she was reflecting back to laying in rehab. I do think the conversation was pivotal and provided the push she needed.

I am done arguing BaTB. You all can think what you want. Time will tell.

I think the "Dreams recur in m,y solitude" is the time after SA when she went home in despair at her weight and horrified at the lack of relative success of SA, her thought that it had been poorly produced, and her faded star. In a couple of interviews, she mentions that all of that remorse sent her into solitude in Phoenix. Maybe the dreams recuring is the wanting to be popular and/or creative again. I think that part of the song is great as is the "Well, once more I tell the shadows of my soul - To stay back" line. The rest, to me, is for the birds.

[Kelly]

Could be about Henley, but I think it just reeks of Lindsey. His girlfriend after Stevie seemed very clingy and needy, which is exactly the type of woman a controlling man needs and wants. Stevie is the opposite of that. She didn't want to be the clingy girlfriend who depended on him. Henley just seemed like an asshole :laugh: I don't know how controlling he was.

I think Stevie could very well have regretted hooking up with Lindsey back then. That was during all the aftermath and it's really easy to think "I wish I'd never met you"! when all that's going on. :nod:


She certainly wrote plenty of songs about him back then expressing feelings other than "I wish I never met you". I will give you the old Planets was sort of harsh...I will never dream. However, she also talks about how the loss made her feel like she was dying. So no, I don't think she regretted loving him.

[strandinthewind]

. . . No one has changed my mind about BaTB though. :lol:


Ohhhh Kelly - you are too blind - toooooo bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnddddd to seeeeeeeeee
Stevie wrote it for Mick - I believe

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

[sparky]

Considering that we're all well-educated working women in relationships and have families and friends, I find it highly offensive that you'd say we're bordering on neurosis. Perhaps we should psychoanalyze you instead?

This thread has been doing fine on it's own with discussion that hasn't gotten out of hand. If this thread is chapping your ass so much, why don't you stop reading it instead of interjecting with your smartass comments and witty reparte. Thanks.

Speak for yourself. I am not a woman, and I don't think Stew or Strand is either. Feel free to psychoanalyze me. Knock yourself out.

I think it is a little neurotic to be emotionally invested in which celebrity Stevie Nicks did or did not write a song about. Especially when it comes to songs that are mainly inspired by literature. Mere neurosis is highly offensive ?
It's not like I said sociopathic.

BTW, I will interject wherever I please. I find some of what is said to be silly and likely startling in it's lack of accuracy. The insistence that all of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey is sadly lacking in smartass comments and wittiness. Block my chapped ass. It's an option. :wavey:

[Kelly]

I think the "Dreams recur in m,y solitude" is the time after SA when she went home in despair at her weight and horrified at the lack of relative success of SA, her thought that it had been poorly produced, and her faded star. In a couple of interviews, she mentions that all of that remorse sent her into solitude in Phoenix. Maybe the dreams recuring is the wanting to be popular and/or creative again. I think that part of the song is great as is the "Well, once more I tell the shadows of my soul - To stay back" line. The rest, to me, is for the birds.

That one line? "Well once more I tell the shadows of my soul to stay back" is perfection. It is the only thing I like about the entire song. :p

[strandinthewind]

. . . Block my chapped ass . . . . :wavey:


Is that "chapped" as in raw or chapped as in clothing :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[Kelly]

Speak for yourself. I am not a woman, and I don't think Stew or Strand is either. Feel free to psychoanalyze me. Knock yourself out.

I think it is a little neurotic to be emotionally invested in which celebrity Stevie Nicks did or did not write a song about. Especially when it comes to songs that are mainly inspired by literature. Mere neurosis is highly offensive ?
It's not like I said sociopathic.

BTW, I will interject wherever I please. I find some of what is said to be silly and likely startling in it's lack of accuracy. The insistence that all of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey is sadly lacking in smartass comments and wittiness. Block my chapped ass. It's an option. :wavey:


No one has insisted that ALL of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey. It apparently chaps your ass that some in fact ARE about him for some reason.
No one is emotionally invested in what the songs are about. This is a message board where we can discuss whatever the hell we want. No one tells you what is appropriate to discuss. I find some of your posts to be startlingly lacking in accuracy but I don't find the need to interject with a meaningless post meant to inflame. :wavey:

[Kelly]

Ohhhh Kelly - you are too blind - toooooo bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnddddd to seeeeeeeeee
Stevie wrote it for Mick - I believe

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p


Do I need to put you in the tool category with Don? :thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

Do I need to put you in the tool category with Don? :thumbsup:


well, maybe just a little while :p :p :p as I have been rather randy lately :eek:

[lagringader&r]

Maybe I am mistaking the last post but Stevie was in rehab in early 94? and this dinner happened with Tom in 95. I am not sure she was reflecting back to laying in rehab. I do think the conversation was pivotal and provided the push she needed.

I don't think anyone could recover from the turmoil that would result from an entire adult lifetime of using, in one year. That's something she will carry around and never forget for the rest of her life. it would be like being in a coma all of your adult life only to wake up and wonder how to function. She wasn't literally lying in rehab. By the time she wrote that, she was clean, alone and desperate. She was probably teetering on the edge of using vs. not using. For her to not write about that intervention from him, at least once, would be so unlike Stevie.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Speak for yourself. I am not a woman, and I don't think Stew or Strand is either. Feel free to psychoanalyze me. Knock yourself out.

I think it is a little neurotic to be emotionally invested in which celebrity Stevie Nicks did or did not write a song about. Especially when it comes to songs that are mainly inspired by literature. Mere neurosis is highly offensive ?
It's not like I said sociopathic.

BTW, I will interject wherever I please. I find some of what is said to be silly and likely startling in it's lack of accuracy. The insistence that all of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey is sadly lacking in smartass comments and wittiness. Block my chapped ass. It's an option. :wavey:

Did I say any of you were women? I don't think I did. I was speaking more in terms of the ladies who had posted their opinion that you more than likely offended with your statement. I don't know a "shipper" :rolleyes: that is a man, actually (oops...except Greg).

No one here is insisting that all of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey and perhaps if you'd actually taken more time to read the thread instead of whipping up a little verbal frenzy with blatant insults because you think we apparently all belong in the bin, you'd realize no one here thinks that. Go check out Buckingham Nicks for that kind of activity (no offense, Nancy).

Much like you have the right to interject where you please, I have the right to post what I want (which isn't harming anyone) without having to listen to some guy guff about something he obviously has no interest in (which is rich, coming from a guy that constantly boasts his in-the-know celeb gossip to criticize us for doing some gossiping and discussion of our own). Perhaps you should become emotionally invested in another topic instead of worrying about what we delusionals are discussing OR perhaps you can join the discussion with Strand and Stew and refute the claims.

I don't want to block you. Off of this subject matter, you actually do provide me with amusement :wavey:

[sparky]

Did I say any of you were women?

You mentioned you were all well educated ladies with familes and friends.
Since some of the people posting on this long thread are men...

No one here is insisting that all of Stevie's songs are about Lindsey and perhaps if you'd actually taken more time to read the thread instead of whipping up a little verbal frenzy with blatant insults because you think we apparently all belong in the bin, you'd realize no one here thinks that. Go check out Buckingham Nicks for that kind of activity (no offense, Nancy).

Actually, I have read every post and word of this thread. The predominant tone is back and forth over just which lover all the songs are about, usually Lindsey. And the arguments supporting that belief involve some spectacular conjecture. Saying something or someone is neurotic means I think the posters belong in the bin ? I didn't suggest medication or institutionalization.
I just think it's goofy.

Much like you have the right to interject where you please, I have the right to post what I want (which isn't harming anyone) without having to listen to some guy guff about something he obviously has no interest in

I have plenty of interest in Stevie's songs and their origins. I just don't have interest in convincing anyone that it's all about Lindsey and Mick. BTW, you've clearly read my posts before : you should know I guff about things all over the place.

(which is rich, coming from a guy that constantly boasts his in-the-know celeb gossip to criticize us for doing some gossiping and discussion of our own)

Boasts ? That's rich. That implies I think the things I know about celebrities is actually important. I work in a silly self indulgent industry in a plastic city, and hear gossip about celebrities every day. It's an everyday part of my job and life. I repeat what I hear and know. I'm not psychologizing and fabricating their interior emotional lives to attribute inspirations about their work and art.
Perhaps you should become emotionally invested in another topic instead of worrying about what we delusionals are discussing OR perhaps you can join the discussion with Strand and Stew and refute the claims.

There really is no refuting the claims. People believe what they want to believe, for whatever strange reasons. And pulling out Stevie quotes in order to buffer an argument is like trying to capture wind in a jar.

I don't want to block you. Off of this subject matter, you actually do provide me with amusement :wavey:

It is my life's work, that.