These are real tears #2 [Archive]

Johnny Stew

05-03-2005, 03:19 PM

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

05-03-2005, 04:54 PM

I thank you for editing the content of your original post, but if you truly wish to keep the peace, you can do so by not harassing or deriding other Ledgies.

Janet and I are the moderators of this particular forum, and we will decide what's appropriate or inappropriate.
Disagreeing with someone's opinion is one thing, but we will not tolerate behaviour that fosters a hostile environment here.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to remind you of the following, from our FAQs....I understand that homosexuality is against your religious beliefs, but I'd suggest that, in the future, you stop to consider "What Would Jesus Do" before you post.I said nothing to any member on this board in my original post. Yes homosexuality is frowned upon in my religious belief, but the main reason I harbor resentments towards homosexuality stems from being raped by an admitted homosexual while being briefly incarcerated in a juvenile facility.

The pain it caused me throughout my teen years, can only be understood by someone who went through it. Stevie’s music brought me through some very dark years. She taught me it was OK to stand up for what I believe in.

The link I’m posting is a story that has effected me a Stevie fan immensely, and just because the link doesn’t mention the victim being a fan of any band, doesn’t mean the link should be removed. He could have been a Stevie/Mac fan. Maybe a fellow Stevie fan knew this person. I lived in Arkansas and was a Stevie fan at the time this happened. I also believe in God which is part of my web page link. Sure I should have posted this in Chit Chat like the other (tears) thread should have been, but many members here don’t bother venturing to that forum for reasons of their own.

I refuse to participate in the Chit Chat forum, and being a Stevie fan that’s a member of this board I’d like to place a link to a public web page here for others to view also. It effects me deeply. Maybe a fellow Stevie fan has been raped? Maybe a fellow fan could use support from a fellow Stevie fan?

“Thank You Stevie for bringing me out of the darkness. Take on the situations, but not the torment.”
VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED.

His parents thought he was working as a hair stylist on weekends. But when Prairie Grove, Ark., police responded to a 911 emergency call at 5 a.m. Sept. 26, they found 13-year-old Jesse Dirkhising on the floor, unconscious, near death, one of his wrists bound with duct tape. A half-hour later, he was pronounced dead at St. Mary's Hospital in Roger. A police investigation determined young Jesse was repeatedly raped over a period of hours, including with foreign objects. While enduring this ordeal, his ankles, knees and wrists were bound in duct tape and he was gagged and blindfolded. He was tied to a mattress. He may have been drugged, police say. A sedative called amitryptiline was found in the home of two men -- Joshua Brown, 22, and David Don Carpenter, 38 -- along with Jesse's body. Just another brutal local crime, you say? Why is Farah recounting a police blotter story from Arkansas? I don't know. Something bothers me about this story. It ought to bother us. It was big news in Northwest Arkansas, but the story of Jesse Dirkhising hasn't made a ripple in the national news. I wonder why? I wonder if it's because the victim is not a part of some politically protected sub-group, a special class deserving of extra government privileges? I wonder if it is because the suspects are, indeed, members of such a group. Remember how the nation stood riveted to the details of a hideous murder that took place in Wyoming when a homosexual was tortured to death? Never mind that the crime had little or nothing to do with the victim's sexual proclivities. Uh-uh. That didn't matter.
Who was Jesse Dirkhising?
http://www.armyofgod.com/JesseDirkhising.html

ELIUD

05-03-2005, 05:24 PM

...but the story of Jesse Dirkhising hasn't made a ripple in the national news. I wonder why? I wonder if it's because the victim is not a part of some politically protected sub-group, a special class deserving of extra government privileges?

I can tell you why it wasn't national news. It's because people are murdered everyday all around the country and we're already numb to that fact. And rapists and murderers are a protected sub-group with special privileges only when they're rich and famous.

If you know of any gay people that have been given extra government protection and rights, give me their number. Maybe they can help me and my partner get some kind of legally sanctioned recognition of our 15 year relationship.

p.s. Stevie rules!

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

05-03-2005, 06:16 PM

And I know someone who was raped by three black men, and because of that she does not like black men. And that's so justified. :rolleyes: Sad how you don't seem to see that it's the exact same thing.

Oh, and by the way, men are raped by heterosexual men in prison all the time. People do many things in while in prison that they would not do otherwise. It's not about sexual orientation.
Wow, Thanks for all the support. :shocked: I feel like I’m being ganged up on instead of feeling just a little bit comforted, and welcome. I see how it goes. You’re right and I’m wrong. I didn’t expect anything more from a few members. :xoxo: Take care gang.

GateandGarden

05-03-2005, 06:18 PM

Rickypt

05-03-2005, 06:23 PM

I'm gay and new to this board. And while I'm very tempted to respond item-by-item on this thread, I didn't come to the Ledge to defend myself or talk about gay rights.

Instead, I just ask 1/2 insane to evaluate and judge me as RickyPT the person and fellow Stevie fan. I respect that you had a very traumatic experience in your childhood, but your blanket resentment of all gays based on the action of one person is not fair and not very rational. It would be the same if my sister hated all heterosexual men because one of them raped her. There's just no logic behind it.

Johnny Stew

05-03-2005, 06:38 PM

Wow, Thanks for all the support. :shocked: I feel like I’m being ganged up on instead of feeling just a little bit comforted, and welcome. I see how it goes. You’re right and I’m wrong. I didn’t expect anything more from a few members. :xoxo: Take care gang.Rightly or wrongly, you'd probably gain more understanding from the people here, if you weren't asking for sympathy from the very same people you disrespect by calling them "abominations" who have "developmental disorders."

However, I recall that in a prior thread in the Chit-Chat Forum, many of us did express our sympathies to you for what you were subjected to as a young man. But we also cautioned you to not demonize an entire group of people, for the actions of one or two.

Many of us here are homosexuals, and while none of us expects preferential treatment, we do expect to not be likened to pedophiles and other deviants.

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

05-03-2005, 06:52 PM

I didn't come to the Ledge to defend myself or talk about gay rights.

Yours is a very appropriate, and well received response. I guess you’d have to be in my shoes to understand. I respect you as a person and don’t hate you. Thanks for your opinion and professional reply.

Stew The Chit Chat forums are run amuck with hatred by a lot of members. They bash Christians, politicians, actors, musicians, They bash everything. Including me. This board has a gang and you know it. I’m simply speaking my opinions, not always the best when I’m responding quickly but we’re all guilty of that sometimes. The pack rules, and you’ve been guilty of sticking up for them at times. So be it. Let’s end it here please. Take care.

ShangriLaTroubl

05-03-2005, 08:17 PM

Yours is a very appropriate, and well received response. I guess you’d have to be in my shoes to understand. I respect you as a person and don’t hate you. Thanks for your opinion and professional reply.

Stew The Chit Chat forums are run amuck with hatred by a lot of members. They bash Christians, politicians, actors, musicians, They bash everything. Including me. This board has a gang and you know it. I’m simply speaking my opinions, not always the best when I’m responding quickly but we’re all guilty of that sometimes. The pack rules, and you’ve been guilty of sticking up for them at times. So be it. Let’s end it here please. Take care.

I think the people most of us bash are very worthy of bashing, lol, because of the things they do and say - or whatever. But that's just my opinion. I consider myself a Christian, but no---not a Jerry Falwell type Christian who thinks he is God and decides what is right and wrong. Anyway, just had to add my two cents....and I think Republicans have developmental disorders--JUST KIDDING!! MAYBE, Well I'm not kidding actually

Chris

diamondsnake

05-03-2005, 09:25 PM

I'm really sorry to hear about what happened to you. Rape is on the same level as murder IMO. However, there are straight rapists and there are gay rapists. They can be black, and they can be white, etc. So maybe instead of focusing your hatred towards homosexuals, you should focus your angry towards rapists in general. I've never been violated by anyone but can only imagine what it does to a person... I just think you are taking this out on a lot of people who have nothing to do with what happened to you.

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

05-04-2005, 12:03 AM

I just think you are taking this out on a lot of people who have nothing to do with what happened to you.

Yes, and the same could be said for the members here that bash Christians as a whole. They know who they are, and most have admitted they are homosexuals. I’m sure you know exactly who I mean. Yet they pick on me when I do the same thing. It goes both ways now doesn’t it. Be honest. :distress:

Moony

05-04-2005, 12:41 AM

I can't believe you'd again use that child's death to support homophobia. That boy was killed by homosexuals. There are good and bad within every characteristic of person in society. He's been likened to Matthew Shepard but there is a colossal difference. One was murdered by persons of a particular orientation, one was murdered because of his orientation. The kid's murderers were a ****ed up pair who belong in prison for their crime, not because they happened to be gay.

No personal experience justifies your intolerance and prejudice. If that were the case I could come here and attack all older males saying what sick bastards they all are but that's absurd because personal experiences are the result of particular people. You're not winning permission to be prejudice against other by asking for sympathy points.

:thumbsup: took the words out of my mouth, though you did say it nicer than I would have.

:xoxo:

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

05-04-2005, 01:08 AM

I can’t believe a person, and a moderator at that, posted Jim Wheelers suicide to defend homosexuality. He took his own life. Heterosexuals didn’t kill him. Goes both ways Luxamoony.

There are good and bad within every characteristic of person in society.
I figured it wouldn’t take long for the Lux/Moonie duo to show up. You’re correct in what I quoted, but once again, and I don’t know why this doesn’t sink in, because I’m tired of typing it. The same can be said for Ledgies bashing Christians, and people of certain religions. I can always expect a double bashing from you two. Why is that? Do you feel more secure as a duo, or gang? :shrug:

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

05-04-2005, 01:31 AM

Well, I’ve seen you two post in pairs quite frequently. Should I have said “you seem to follow each other around as friends?”

By that thinking, the homosexual here could get away with bashing all the heterosexuals.Lets hope that doesn’t happen. There’s enough bashing by a gang here already. Now I asked J/Stew to end this and he did, but the gang felt they needed to continue it. :rolleyes: Let’s end it here please. Thanks.

Moony

05-04-2005, 01:36 AM

I can’t believe a person, and a moderator at that, posted Jim Wheelers suicide to defend homosexuality. He took his own life. Heterosexuals didn’t kill him. Goes both ways Luxamoony.

I figured it wouldn’t take long for the Lux/Moonie duo to show up. You’re correct in what I quoted, but once again, and I don’t know why this doesn’t sink in, because I’m tired of typing it. The same can be said for Ledgies bashing Christians, and people of certain religions. I can always expect a double bashing from you two. Why is that? Do you feel more secure as a duo, or gang? :shrug:
I don't get your logic. You sit there and say hateful things about gay people, but if anyone says anything in reply, you cry foul. ? It's ok for you to degrade me and I should just sit quiet and take it? Um, no.

Lux and I are not a "duo." It's a public forum, I can agree with whomever I want, when I want. I was actually going to reply to you, but she had already said what I wanted to get across, so there was no need.

I truly am sorry that you were raped. It's one of the most horrendous things a person can do to another, and you do have my sympathies for that. The people replying in this thread are not trying to justify what happened to Jesse, either. It was atrocious and I hope those two men rot in jail. However, YOU seem to take that tragedy and your own personal rape as reason to hate ALL gays. Which makes no sense.

And by the way, did you even read the content of her post?

Does it make you feel more secure to habitualy bash homosexuals?

I wasn't aware that we were and I fear it slightly degrading for him
OH, hush. It's not degrading at all. :)

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

05-04-2005, 01:47 AM

However, YOU seem to take that tragedy and your own personal rape as reason to hate ALL gays.I have never, and I do mean NEVER said” I hate all gays.” I’d appreciate if you would stop accusing me of that. I’ll say it again. Let’s end it here please. Thanks.

Moony

05-04-2005, 02:21 AM

I harbor resentments towards homosexuality

You're right, I should have said "resent all homosexuals."

Semantics :rolleyes:

I'm done.

rianbay1

05-04-2005, 02:23 AM

Lets hope that doesn’t happen. There’s enough bashing by a gang here already. Now I asked J/Stew to end this and he did, but the gang felt they needed to continue it. :rolleyes: Let’s end it here please. Thanks.

I don't see how "the gang" is keeping going on anymore than you are yourself. Maybe, since you asked, Johnny WILL end it and terminate this thread altogether. I for one would like to see it gone. :nod:

Janet

05-04-2005, 02:52 AM

See the difference is that actors, Christians and so on choose who they are.

Gay people don't.

While all others are difference of opinion, hating gay people is a prejudice.

Don't be prejudiced on these boards. That's it.

Johnny Stew

05-04-2005, 02:53 AM

I can’t believe a person, and a moderator at that, posted Jim Wheelers suicide to defend homosexuality. He took his own life. Heterosexuals didn’t kill him.I wasn't going to post anymore in regards to this topic, but since you're deriding my choice to discuss Jimmy Wheeler, I'm going to reply.

For the record, I didn't post about Jimmy to "defend" homosexuality, nor did I say that heterosexuals "killed" him.

Jimmy was beaten and abused by his peers, because he was gay. He was made to feel that he was an "abomination," who didn't deserve to live, because he'd never fit into the biased definition of "normal."
Unfortunately, Jimmy was never able to see himself beyond someone else's narrow-minded and hate-filled opinion of him, and he took his own life.

I pointed towards Jimmy's story, as an example of what can happen when we allow hatred and prejudice to take the place of compassion and understanding.

Quite frankly, I think I've been beyond patient in regards to you. You have repeatedly called what I am, an abomination and a "developmental disorder" which needs to be treated.
Sure, you say you really don't hate gays, but you continually say things that amount to a verbal punch in the stomach.

Yet, I think I've been completely civil, even when I've lost my patience once or twice.
I've tried to reason with you, and maybe show you another point of view. But I get the feeling you're not interested in any viewpoint other than your own.

As I stated on the Chit-Chat Forum, there are MANY of us who are Christians (whether we align ourselves to any particular religious group or not), and who have argued the merits of having some sort of belief system. I also made it very clear that NO ONE, in all of the posts I've read here, has EVER bashed "all Christians"... the criticisms cited have always been laid on the doorstep of those who hide behind their religious beliefs when defending their own prejudices. The "extremists."

There is a very distinct difference.

The last thing I'd like to add, is that the homosexuals on this board are not the only ones who criticize extremist Christians... but that, too, seems to be something you choose to ignore in your arguments.

You seem to look for any and every reason to continually paint us as the bad guys, yet you refuse to be reasoned with or to truly call a truce. You back off briefly, and then return to lob more insults (yes, calling someone an "abomination" IS an insult... beyond insulting, in fact... no matter how you see it).

As far as being "ganged up on"... you join in discussions where many gay or gay-friendly people are conversing, and state things that even you can't deny are meant to be incendiary, and then bristle when more than one or two people disagree with you. Not to mention the creation of threads with such titles as "Violence and Homosexuality."

I've been patient, but even my patience has its limits. I am formally warning you right now to drop any further discussions of the "evils of homosexuality," as you see it.
Defend the positives of Christianity all you wish, but refrain from any mention of homosexuality in those discussions. And, yes, vague references do count.

I refer you once again to the portion of our Rules & Guidelines (aka, the FAQs), which states the following as being against our policies:Derogatory statements that could be construed as bigoted, hateful or racially offensive or comments defaming sexual orientation

Janet

05-04-2005, 02:56 AM

I stand behind everything JS just said.

BombaySapphire3

05-04-2005, 03:15 AM

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

05-04-2005, 04:41 AM

You have repeatedly called what I am, an abomination and a "developmental disorder" which needs to be treated. Maybe I have referred to you as an abomination according to the bible, but was quoting it, or used it in a conversation related to the bible. If you’re accusing me of it? Give me a link to where I called you this personally. If I didn’t call you this, then this is what’s called a conversation, AKA freedom of speech. While you’re at it show me where I’ve personally called you a development disorder, or the same applies. I’m not going to waste time searching it. Give me the links.
Sure, you say you really don't hate gays, but you continually say things that amount to a verbal punch in the stomach.I’ve been verbally punched in the stomach on this board for being a Christian. It goes both ways. We both have wounds.
I've tried to reason with you, and maybe show you another point of view. But I get the feeling you're not interested in any viewpoint other than your own. I feel the same way.

I also made it very clear that NO ONE, in all of the posts I've read here, has EVER bashed "all Christians".You need to read more threads. You’re missing a lot. A bunch of these bashings of all Christians happened in 12/04 thru 1/05. Those threads are gone, but I’m sure I’m not the only one that saw them. The bashings continue today if you look hard enough. I’m not going to waste my time searching them. You’re the um “moderator” that misses it all.
You seem to look for any and every reason to continually paint us as the bad guys, yet you refuse to be reasoned with or to truly call a truce. You back off briefly, and then return to lob more insults (yes, calling someone an "abomination" IS an insult... beyond insulting, in fact... no matter how you see it).I did back off. You need to brush up on moderating 101. Look at the time stamp on my posts. It’s that little date above my name if you didn’t know? My posts #10 at 6:52pm, #13 12:03am. Now look at the two posts in between. I let it go for 6 hours, but according to you I shouldn’t respond to posts #11 and #12. Look at what was said in them. I let it go until others couldn’t, and if I hadn’t responded you know it would have continued. Get real Stew. If they want to keep it going, don’t expect me to just sit here and take it. That’s also the reason for this reply.
I've been patient, but even my patience has its limits. I am formally warning you right now to drop any further discussions of the "evils of homosexuality," as you see it.
Defend the positives of Christianity all you wish, but refrain from any mention of homosexuality in those discussions. And, yes, vague references do count.Oh it’s Ok for us to have heated religious disagreements but not sexual lifestyle disagreements. That’s compassionate and understanding. Wait, no that’s censorship. I’m not allowed to use the H word anymore. Even vague references count. Reeks of censorship to me. Does this include all members?
I refer you once again to the portion of our Rules & Guidelines (aka, the FAQs), which states the following as being against our policies:I know the board rules. The gang rules. Enforce the rules on all. Don't narrow me out for my beliefs.

It’s sad to see you agree with all this Janet.

Jessica Leigh

05-04-2005, 05:04 AM

I seem to remember pretty vividly the last time this Dirksong incident was brought up on here and by whom and in what context.Could someone please check this 'Insane' person's ICQ and see if it is coming out of a basement in New Jersey?

uh oh.... you think AR might be back? this certainly does sound like him a bit. didn't he go to jail? well i guess they can have computers in jail, right? f*cking taxdollars.....

thepoetinmyhear

05-04-2005, 06:51 AM

Give me the links.

You need to read more threads. You’re missing a lot. A bunch of these bashings of all Christians happened in 12/04 thru 1/05. Those threads are gone, but I’m sure I’m not the only one that saw them. The bashings continue today if you look hard enough. I’m not going to waste my time searching them.

Doesn't work both ways. You can't ask that he provide links and then not do the same. Either you both need to search or you both need to provide links.

Oh it’s Ok for us to have heated religious disagreements but not sexual lifestyle disagreements. That’s compassionate and understanding. Wait, no that’s censorship. I’m not allowed to use the H word anymore. Even vague references count. Reeks of censorship to me.

PRIVATE FORUM! Censorship is allowed here. This is not something protected by first amendment rights. If the wonderful people who run their site don't want certain things said here, that's their perogative. They have selected people to enforce what they would and would not like on their site and by registerring as a user you agreed to those terms. Sorry.

skcin

05-04-2005, 08:31 AM

Well, I’ve seen you two post in pairs quite frequently. Should I have said “you seem to follow each other around as friends?”

Lets hope that doesn’t happen. There’s enough bashing by a gang here already. Now I asked J/Stew to end this and he did, but the gang felt they needed to continue it. :rolleyes: Let’s end it here please. Thanks.

If you truly want to end it, couldn't you just lock this thread? :shrug: I think you can lock threads that you started.

GateandGarden

05-04-2005, 08:33 AM

Doesn't work both ways. You can't ask that he provide links and then not do the same. Either you both need to search or you both need to provide links.Right. 1/2 Insane, name those people who have bashed Christians as a whole on this board. I haven't seen it, particularly since lots of people here are Christians themsevles. Furthermore, if you're a Christian, you can change that. It is your choice! One can't choose or change his or her sexual orientation.

So, theoretically, do you think it should be okay for someone to come on here with arguments and links to support his or her theory that black people are inherently evil and should be cured?

GateandGarden

05-04-2005, 08:38 AM

I have never, and I do mean NEVER said” I hate all gays.” I’d appreciate if you would stop accusing me of that. I’ll say it again. Let’s end it here please. Thanks.Why is it that people do things like this? Insist on having the last word? Why is it up to one particular person to decide when something is over? I think that's the thing you say when you can no longer think of an argument. Rather than trying to address what the person said, you just say "let's end it here" As Paula said, you could just lock the thread.

GateandGarden

05-04-2005, 08:46 AM

I have never, and I do mean NEVER said” I hate all gays.” I’d appreciate if you would stop accusing me of that. I’ll say it again. Let’s end it here please. Thanks.Maybe you've never used the word "hate," but you've made us out to be less than real people. See this link (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=299817&postcount=22), which is only one example. The strap-on comment alone was ignorant and uncalled for. And according to you, we're not worthy of raising children, unlike the rest of society. You can say it's not hate if you want, but certainly degradation and condescension have come out in your posts.

Mari

05-04-2005, 09:05 AM

If anyone is in need of AR's IP's, just PM me.. hm, did I just spell RIP?
Anyway, 1/2etc, if you want to know what 'ganging up' on someone is, ask AR! :laugh:

rianbay1

05-04-2005, 09:54 AM

If I didn’t call you this, then this is what’s called a conversation, AKA freedom of speech. While you’re at it show me where I’ve personally called you a development disorder, or the same applies. I’m not going to waste time searching it. Give me the links.
I’ve been verbally punched in the stomach on this board for being a Christian. It goes both ways. We both have wounds.
I feel the same way.

You're an idiot. Why does Johnny owe you any links to quotes?!?!
By the way, I'm sure that a lot of the people who are on here that are gay are ALSO Christian. Maybe not Christian according to what YOU believe a Christian should be, but Christian nonetheless. You don't have to be a God fearing, bible banger to have values. Is this a fact that you're mind is too narrow to comprehend?

ShangriLaTroubl

05-04-2005, 10:17 AM

Talk about pouncing on anyone who has a different belief than you, as you say we do, umm I think that perfectly charactizes homophobics and not the people here...Sure a lot of us might have similar political beliefs, but I don't hate anyone for having a different belief as long as they express that belief in a normal manner, and their belief has no affect on me or my friends....I have no problem with someone who thinks homosexuality is wrong, but when you express that opinion in the hateful way like you do, it's different..I for one am not a homosexual, although many of my friends are.

I think certain things are "wrong" that many of my friends might not agree with me on, but we can agree to disagree..Like someone said you want to come on here posting your opinions and have no one say anything back, that does not happen on a message board sorry...you think you can just "end it there" well if you want it ENDED there you might as well post somewhere else. We dont end our opinions when you feel it necessary to tell us to.

Chris

GateandGarden

05-04-2005, 10:52 AM

....I have no problem with someone who thinks homosexuality is wrong, but when you express that opinion in the hateful way like you do, it's different..I'm with you on the rest of your post, but I just wanted to say that I do have a big problem with someone who thinks homosexuality is wrong, as it's comparable to thinking heterosexuality is wrong, or being black or Irish is wrong. It's utterly unfair to fault me for a part of myself over which I have no control and is not inherently harmful to any other human being or myself.

Rickypt

05-04-2005, 11:08 AM

I'm with you on the rest of your post, but I just wanted to say that I do have a big problem with someone who thinks homosexuality is wrong, as it's comparable to thinking heterosexuality is wrong, or being black or Irish is wrong. It's utterly unfair to fault me for a part of myself over which I have no control and is not inherently harmful to any other human being or myself.

Well said. The problem is that many people do think homosexuality is a choice (or at least they pretend they do because they think it somehow justifies their prejudice). I know full well being a gay guy and all that it isn't a choice, but I wouldn't care if it was because there's nothing wrong with it, period.

Anyway, I find it interesting that no matter what discussion board I have frequented, there is always a big debate about homosexuality. I think it's a good thing; the more people think about and discuss the issue, the closer we will get to acceptance and equality.

The difference here, though, is usually I'm the only openly gay person and therefore left to defend my tribe. Fortunately, there appear to be many here willing to take this on-- including some straight allies --and are doing a great job. I'd really just prefer to laugh at Stevie's Reeboks and debate whether or not the Mirage SOTM twirl was the result of performance-enhancing drugs and therefore deserves an asterisk next to it. (this is a joke for baseball fans...and it's coming from a homosexual!). :wavey:

ELIUD

05-04-2005, 11:19 AM

... I'd really just prefer to laugh at Stevie's Reeboks and debate whether or not the Mirage SOTM twirl was the result of performance-enhancing drugs and therefore deserves an asterisk next to it.

Drugs or not, it definitely deserves an ASSterisk next to it, cuz I sees some ass in that twirl.

SuzeQuze

05-04-2005, 11:23 AM

Well said. The problem is that many people do think homosexuality is a choice (or at least they pretend they do because they think it somehow justifies their prejudice). I know full well being a gay guy and all that it isn't a choice, but I wouldn't care if it was because there's nothing wrong with it, period.

Anyway, I find it interesting that no matter what discussion board I have frequented, there is always a big debate about homosexuality. I think it's a good thing; the more people think about and discuss the issue, the closer we will get to acceptance and equality.

The difference here, though, is usually I'm the only openly gay person and therefore left to defend my tribe. Fortunately, there appear to be many here willing to take this on-- including some straight allies --and are doing a great job. I'd really just prefer to laugh at Stevie's Reeboks and debate whether or not the Mirage SOTM twirl was the result of performance-enhancing drugs and therefore deserves an asterisk next to it. (this is a joke for baseball fans...and it's coming from a homosexual!). :wavey:

Haha, it took me a few minutes to get your joke! :laugh: Nice one :thumbsup: I just saw Fever Pitch and it was hysterical. Welcome to the board Rickypt. There are plenty here that don't think homosexuality is wrong including myself, you are correct. Iyanla Vanzant calls "SIN" Self Inflicted Nonsense and I tend to agree with that opinion. :nod: Again, welcome to the Ledge! :D

GateandGarden

05-04-2005, 11:51 AM

Well said. The problem is that many people do think homosexuality is a choice (or at least they pretend they do because they think it somehow justifies their prejudice). I know full well being a gay guy and all that it isn't a choice, but I wouldn't care if it was because there's nothing wrong with it, period.

Anyway, I find it interesting that no matter what discussion board I have frequented, there is always a big debate about homosexuality. I think it's a good thing; the more people think about and discuss the issue, the closer we will get to acceptance and equality.

The difference here, though, is usually I'm the only openly gay person and therefore left to defend my tribe. Fortunately, there appear to be many here willing to take this on-- including some straight allies --and are doing a great job. I'd really just prefer to laugh at Stevie's Reeboks and debate whether or not the Mirage SOTM twirl was the result of performance-enhancing drugs and therefore deserves an asterisk next to it. (this is a joke for baseball fans...and it's coming from a homosexual!). :wavey:Well said on your part as well! I agree that debates about sexual orientation are generally helpful in that they create and foster awareness, and that has to be a good thing in the long run. Welcome to a place where you're definitely not the only outspoken gay person or straight ally! :wavey: (Isn't it great?) By the same token, I agree that we're not here solely to talk about homosexuality; we're united in our love for FM. That's first and foremost. So, thanks for providing some comic relief. :nod:

GypsySorcerer

05-04-2005, 12:59 PM

Well said. The problem is that many people do think homosexuality is a choice (or at least they pretend they do because they think it somehow justifies their prejudice). I know full well being a gay guy and all that it isn't a choice, but I wouldn't care if it was because there's nothing wrong with it, period.

Anyway, I find it interesting that no matter what discussion board I have frequented, there is always a big debate about homosexuality. I think it's a good thing; the more people think about and discuss the issue, the closer we will get to acceptance and equality.

The difference here, though, is usually I'm the only openly gay person and therefore left to defend my tribe. Fortunately, there appear to be many here willing to take this on-- including some straight allies --and are doing a great job. I'd really just prefer to laugh at Stevie's Reeboks and debate whether or not the Mirage SOTM twirl was the result of performance-enhancing drugs and therefore deserves an asterisk next to it. (this is a joke for baseball fans...and it's coming from a homosexual!). :wavey:

Ah, baseball.......one of my great loves. :thumbsup:

diamondsnake

05-04-2005, 03:05 PM

Yes, and the same could be said for the members here that bash Christians as a whole. They know who they are, and most have admitted they are homosexuals. I’m sure you know exactly who I mean. Yet they pick on me when I do the same thing. It goes both ways now doesn’t it. Be honest. :distress:
I'm not defending Christian bashers and I'm not defending homosexual bashers. The way I see it everyone should just get along on this board because both of these topics have nothing to do with Stevie Nicks.

LiquidBlue5000

05-04-2005, 03:09 PM

ShangriLaTroubl

05-04-2005, 03:11 PM

I'm not defending Christian bashers and I'm not defending homosexual bashers. The way I see it everyone should just get along on this board because both of these topics have nothing to do with Stevie Nicks.

I agree this shouldnt be on the Stevie board...the way I see it is there should be a middle ground...I dont think Christian bashers are ok either...Bashing and disagreeing are different things. Although this topic has been started on here, he started this topic obviously because he wanted responses, even though now he claims he wants it ended....so why not post opinions in response to the thread...can this thread be moved to Chit Chat? I dunno, I guess it probably could....

GateandGarden

05-04-2005, 03:18 PM

I agree this shouldnt be on the Stevie board...the way I see it is there should be a middle ground...I dont think Christian bashers are ok either...Bashing and disagreeing are different things. Although this topic has been started on here, he started this topic obviously because he wanted responses, even though now he claims he wants it ended....so why not post opinions in response to the thread...can this thread be moved to Chit Chat? I dunno, I guess it probably could....I think it ought to be moved to Chit Chat, personally.

And there is a difference between disagreeing and bashing...though I can't see how doing either to a homosexual is justifiable. I can disagree with someone for having blue eyes or I can bash him or her for having blue eyes and neither one seems logical. However, I think it does make sense to disagree with a Christian for having that religion, but it's unfair and cruel to bash them for it. And with Christianity, it doesn't have to be about the person but the beliefs. You can have a problem with the person's viewpoints but still respect and like the person. Sexual orientation doesn't work that way. If you dislike a sexual orientation then you are disliking an inherent part of the person that wasn't chosen and cannot be changed, similar to eye color but not as simple and easily explained. Anyway, I know I'm being redundant at this point.

diamondsnake

05-04-2005, 03:26 PM

I think it ought to be moved to Chit Chat, personally.

And there is a difference between disagreeing and bashing...though I can't see how doing either to a homosexual is justifiable. I can disagree with someone for having blue eyes or I can bash him or her for having blue eyes and neither one seems logical. However, I think it does make sense to disagree with a Christian for having that religion, but it's unfair and cruel to bash them for it. And with Christianity, it doesn't have to be about the person but the beliefs. You can have a problem with the person's viewpoints but still respect and like the person. Sexual orientation doesn't work that way. If you dislike a sexual orientation then you are disliking an inherent part of the person that wasn't chosen and cannot be changed, similar to eye color but not as simple and easily explained. Anyway, I know I'm being redundant at this point.
I totally agree with what you are saying. I think 1/2 Insane is suggesting mass brainwashing... and that still can't change chemistry/biology! It is all about science if you ask me. It is not a choice and I hate it when people say that it is because how would they know? A girl in my class got in an argument with me last week because she said that gay marriage was wrong because the bible says so. I got really mad when she said that it is a choice. It is just insane to think that someone wakes up one day with the desire to be a homosexual. It just doesn't work that way folks.

GateandGarden

05-04-2005, 03:29 PM

I totally agree with what you are saying. I think 1/2 Insane is suggesting mass brainwashing... and that still can't change chemistry/biology! It is all about science if you ask me. It is not a choice and I hate it when people say that it is because how would they know? A girl in my class got in an argument with me last week because she said that gay marriage was wrong because the bible says so. I got really mad when she said that it is a choice. It is just insane to think that someone wakes up one day with the desire to be a homosexual. It just doesn't work that way folks.I know! I'm totally with ya. And I get into that exact same argument way too much for my health! :laugh:

The Tower

05-04-2005, 06:01 PM

Well, since you insist on being a yo-yo, saying you're leaving and then coming back and then saying you're leaving and then coming back, I figured I'd toss my post into the ring. Why not?

Yes homosexuality is frowned upon in my religious belief, but the main reason I harbor resentments towards homosexuality stems from being raped by an admitted homosexual while being briefly incarcerated in a juvenile facility.
What happened to you is horrible, however, that one scumbag's actions shouldn't stain an entire group of people.

Sure I should have posted this in Chit Chat like the other (tears) thread should have been, but many members here don’t bother venturing to that forum for reasons of their own.
I’m out of here gang. Go back to your usual Christian bashing and gay banter. Try to keep it out of forums other then Chit Chat, if you have an ounce of respect?
What's up with that?
I refuse to participate in the Chit Chat forum
Oh, I get it now.... not.

Something bothers me about this story. It ought to bother us. It was big news in Northwest Arkansas, but the story of Jesse Dirkhising hasn't made a ripple in the national news. I wonder why? I wonder if it's because the victim is not a part of some politically protected sub-group, a special class deserving of extra government privileges? I wonder if it is because the suspects are, indeed, members of such a group.
Boy, that is some bull****.

Remember how the nation stood riveted to the details of a hideous murder that took place in Wyoming when a homosexual was tortured to death? Never mind that the crime had little or nothing to do with the victim's sexual proclivities.
That is an outright lie. Aaron McKinney beat the **** out of Matthew Shepard and left him to die because Matthew was gay.

Yes, and the same could be said for the members here that bash Christians as a whole. They know who they are, and most have admitted they are homosexuals. I’m sure you know exactly who I mean.
:wavey:

While I have "bashed" organized religion and the religion of christianity, I have not "bashed" christians as a whole. Yeah, Fred Phelps and Jerry Fallwell are evil pieces of ****. Yeah, Pat Robertson is an insane, greedy hatemonger. Yeah, most fundamentalists are outta control. But not ALL christians.....
For the record, I didn't post about Jimmy to "defend" homosexuality, nor did I say that heterosexuals "killed" him.
Heterosexuals didn't kill him, but society did.