These are real tears...

[JazmenFlowers]

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later

[Moony]

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later
ummm...see ya?

[skcin]

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later


It's not your fault, or your problem, or whatever. I hope you decide to come back.

[Johnny Stew]

I didn't have an opportunity to see the original post before it was edited, but I will say this....
Jimmy Wheeler was a Stevie Nicks fan, and, therefore, a discussion regarding him IS on topic.

In the past, we've discussed in this Forum other stories regarding Stevie fans that we've read about on the internet or in the newspaper (lost dogs, tragic deaths, waiters who've met her, etc.), and we most certainly can discuss Jimmy Wheeler here as well.

Beyond that, we've always taken a somewhat relaxed stance regarding off-topic posts. Yes, we do suggest that they be placed in the applicable forum, but, often times, bands with no real relation to FM are discussed on the Rumours Forum, or a question regarding Stevie's solo career is asked there, and so forth. Heck, some fans have even suggested that all discussions of 'Say You Will' should have been placed on the Post-Rumours Forum, as Fleetwood Mac is no longer the Rumours-Era group without Christine.

So, if you wish to discuss Jimmy Wheeler... a fellow Stevie Nicks fan... then, please feel free to do so.

[amber]

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later
What is she/he talking about? Is it possible that I missed something? Why would this person want to leave? what did someone say? who is Jimmy Wheeler? Why does this person want the ledge to be how it used to be? :confused:

[Moony]

What is she/he talking about? Is it possible that I missed something? Why would this person want to leave? what did someone say? who is Jimmy Wheeler? Why does this person want the ledge to be how it used to be? :confused:
that was my exact reaction!

:confused:

[skcin]

I'm assuming it's because 1/2 Insane posted a nasty thread titled "These are real tears part 2." I could be wrong.

[Johnny Stew]

I'm assuming it's because 1/2 Insane posted a nasty thread titled "These are real tears part 2." I could be wrong.Yes, that is, unfortunately, the case.

Just a little preemptive plea here... I'd appreciate it if no one allows this particular thread (or the other) to become a massive debate or argument.

Thank you. :)

[Nixxxed]

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later
Here is the text that Jazmen had posted, from Jim Wheeler's memorial website: http://jimwheeler.org Jazmen also had personal comments attached, which I am not reproducing.

The text below can be found at: http://jimwheeler.org/story.html


My brother Jimmy comes from a family of seven children. I am the oldest. Jimmy is fourth in line.

When people hear we have seven kids in our family, they assume we are Catholic. Actually, we are Quakers.

If you know anything about Quakers, you know that they are accepting of everyone. I am very grateful that Jimmy was born into such an open-minded and loving family. I believe that is one of the factors which kept him alive to see 19.

Even as a child, we knew Jimmy was different. He was always extremely sensitive. He played extensively with dolls. He had no male friends. His mannerisms were strongly effeminate.

For the most part, he was a happy kid. It wasn't until he became a teenager that things started to change. He didn't admit to us that he was gay until he was 18.
None of us were surprised. We had kind of guessed it all along. My mom told him she loved him, but it would be a hard road ahead. My sister, Kendra, said "Big deal, it doesn't change my feelings for you." And I said something dumb like "Who wants to be like everyone else? Different is refreshing."

So Jimmy tried to pretend that he was completely comfortable with who he was. He tried to pretend that it didn't bother him when the kids called him names like 'Faggot' or 'Queer' or that it didn't totally humiliate him when they pulled him out of the gym class shower and peed on him.

He tried to pretend these things didn't affect him, but they did. In fact, he used these incidents as ammunition for an arsenal of angst-ridden poetry and paintings. He found solace in the music of Tori Amos, Courtney Love and Fleetwood Mac.

He never looked for reasons to live, only for reasons to die. He considered everything he did to be a failure. Towards the end, he talked extensively of suicide. We thought he was simply being dramatic. After all, Jimmy and I were the two biggest overreactors of the family.

Our flippancy toward his pain must have been very hurtful. But none of us could relate to his depression. We couldn't understand the self-hatred and the hopelessness that centered around his being gay. He attempted to slit his wrists at least two times.
My parents put him into therapy. His therapist said that Jimmy was a cutter, and, not to worry, cutters never take their own lives. He wasn't in therapy for very long before he killed himself. My mother and I found him in his apartment. He was about three feet from the door. He had hanged himself.

- Jennifer Wheeler

[GateandGarden]

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

laterI read your original post and I really appreciated the fact that you posted it. I'm sorry that I didn't comment, but I did appreciate it. I'm sorry that you're leaving, and I wish you wouldn't leave because of one person. I hope you decide to come back sometime.

[½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®]

I'm assuming it's because 1/2 Insane posted a nasty thread titled "These are real tears part 2." I could be wrong.My tears post was in no way nasty, and Stews assuming so is an inappropriate response. Read the threads before you assume Please J/Stew. Thank You.

[Johnny Stew]

My tears post was in no way nasty, and Stews assuming so is an inappropriate response. Read the threads before you assume Please J/Stew. Thank You.My apologies if I made an assumption. All I can go by is the reactions after the fact.

I reiterate though, that I will not tolerate a hostile environment being created on this forum.

[½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®]

My apologies if I made an assumption. All I can go by is the reactions after the fact.

I reiterate though, that I will not tolerate a hostile environment being created on this forum.Thanks Johnny Stew. It happens. I’m guilty too. No hard feelings on my end. :wavey:

[Serrart]

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later

I'm sorry you're leaving. I didn't know anything about JIm Wheeler before and didn't read your initial post. Hope you would change your mind and give us the chance to read again your comments.

Romy

[Sugar]

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later

Well...it is the way it used to be...it was just someone else. There was always one, wasn't there? :wavey:

So don't go for this reason. There's plenty of tolerance here. Especially for those who have been wronged and try to do better. ;)

[JazmenFlowers]

maybe I acted on impulse and emotion before and I apologize if I in any way inferred that the majority of the people here are not fabulous, understanding and polite. I'm not one to back down, so I knew I'd be back...I can't stay away from Amber, Johnny Stew and DrummerDeana and many others. the sum of my post was simply that Stevie is a lifesaver to many people and it was just a "here's to you Stevie" for everything. I hate that I in some way started this discussion of religion and sexuality, which could be argued for years to come. to let 1/2 insane know, I too was raped at the age of 5 yrs old at knifepoint in an abandoned home next to a roll of Pink Panther insulation. those images are burned in my mind so I know a little something about how he feels. people do some evil things in this world. posting information about Jim Wheeler was to show that he was a Stevie fan and his story was sad and I connected with it. I too read the story about the poor child that was murdered by those two men and words can't express the sick feeling that I had when reading it. I hope that 1/2 insane can understand I was pointing out that many of us have things in our lives we struggle with. I was lucky to find Stevie and make it day to day, while Jim did not. I thought it was a touching story and that my post was tactful.

as far as my comment about the Ledge being like it used to be, that too was said in haste. I remember first joining the Ledge in 1997 or 1998 and each person being the keeper of something (I was the keeper of Stevie's Moon Necklace and the song Sisters of the Moon) and we all did the Crystal Visions compilation...it just brings back fond memories and I miss some of the people that used to make this board an amazing place to be. It is still an awesome collection of people with varied backgrounds and personalities and that's what makes anything interesting and fun. we all have one thing in common and that is love for Stevie. I, for one, love her soul and anything she has ever done...and appreciate her and appreciate this board and the people that compile it. with that said, I'm looking forward to Vegas with each passing second.

and thanks to those of you who were so nice and sent me messages. to others, whom I won't name, that were crude, thoughtless and critical, you know who you are and I wish you all the best - there's enough hate already

[amber]

I'm so sorry that happened to you, first of all. It makes me sick.
I'm glad you decided to come back. It seems to me that most people here are kind, compassionate, open, and also very knowlegeable. It would have been a shame to lose you because of what one person, or two, or whatever, said. :)
I enjoyed and share your heartfelt sentiments about Stevie.
I'm sure most people have acted on their emotions/impulses here, no big, I'm sure no one took it personally.
again, I'm glad you changed your mind. :)
(sorry, I'm not very good at this stuff, but I wanted to say something to let you know how I feel about what you said.... :o )

[½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®]

and thanks to those of you who were so nice and sent me messages. to others, whom I won't name, that were crude, thoughtless and critical, you know who you are and I wish you all the best - there's enough hate alreadyI’d foreword the cruel PM’s to Janet the moderator to be dealt with accordingly. There is no reason for that type of behavior. I get where you’re coming from JazmenFlowers. Glad you came back.

[Janet]

JazmenFlowers, who are you? I was on the Ledge in 1997. I didn't have an item but I just remember things like GREEN CUP and HAMMOCK LOL.

[JazmenFlowers]

JazmenFlowers, who are you? I was on the Ledge in 1997. I didn't have an item but I just remember things like GREEN CUP and HAMMOCK LOL.

I don't remember what my name was, I think it was rhiannon1979 or something. But yeah, someone was the keeper of Christine's neon green cup and lots of other cool stuff. I was the one always posting poetry and trying to organize Stevie parties. I ended up getting one together and the picture of the party actually ended up on the Nicksfix...my crowning achievment. lol

[DrummerDeanna]

Glad you're back - don't leave...

What I've noticed on the Ledge through the years is....the pests and crazies come and go - the cool people stay constant....well a few have left - but there are still many great people remaining....:) Thanks for sharing your story and Jimmy Wheeler's story - it's sickening that these things happen in the world - it's also sickening that there are people on this board who would respond to such things with crudeness and hatred.

[David]

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...It just ain't the same now
So get like you used to be!

[David]

What I've noticed on the Ledge through the years is....the pests and crazies come and go - the cool people stay constant....A few of the pests & crazies have stayed on, though, year after year ... nuts like Barb & Les!!

[GateandGarden]

maybe I acted on impulse and emotion before and I apologize if I in any way inferred that the majority of the people here are not fabulous, understanding and polite. I'm not one to back down, so I knew I'd be back...I can't stay away from Amber, Johnny Stew and DrummerDeana and many others. the sum of my post was simply that Stevie is a lifesaver to many people and it was just a "here's to you Stevie" for everything. I hate that I in some way started this discussion of religion and sexuality, which could be argued for years to come. to let 1/2 insane know, I too was raped at the age of 5 yrs old at knifepoint in an abandoned home next to a roll of Pink Panther insulation. those images are burned in my mind so I know a little something about how he feels. people do some evil things in this world. posting information about Jim Wheeler was to show that he was a Stevie fan and his story was sad and I connected with it. I too read the story about the poor child that was murdered by those two men and words can't express the sick feeling that I had when reading it. I hope that 1/2 insane can understand I was pointing out that many of us have things in our lives we struggle with. I was lucky to find Stevie and make it day to day, while Jim did not. I thought it was a touching story and that my post was tactful.

as far as my comment about the Ledge being like it used to be, that too was said in haste. I remember first joining the Ledge in 1997 or 1998 and each person being the keeper of something (I was the keeper of Stevie's Moon Necklace and the song Sisters of the Moon) and we all did the Crystal Visions compilation...it just brings back fond memories and I miss some of the people that used to make this board an amazing place to be. It is still an awesome collection of people with varied backgrounds and personalities and that's what makes anything interesting and fun. we all have one thing in common and that is love for Stevie. I, for one, love her soul and anything she has ever done...and appreciate her and appreciate this board and the people that compile it. with that said, I'm looking forward to Vegas with each passing second.

and thanks to those of you who were so nice and sent me messages. to others, whom I won't name, that were crude, thoughtless and critical, you know who you are and I wish you all the best - there's enough hate alreadyI just wanted to say how sorry I am about what happened to you.

I also wanted to say that I'm glad you came back to the board. :)

[JazmenFlowers]

I just wanted to say how sorry I am about what happened to you.

I also wanted to say that I'm glad you came back to the board. :)

thanks girl! I love Gate and Garden by the way. When it kicks in, I MUST sing along!

[GateandGarden]

thanks girl! I love Gate and Garden by the way. When it kicks in, I MUST sing along!Me too! :thumbsup: