Republican Celebrities [Archive]

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 10:52 PM

I thought it would be interesting to do a search to see what celebrities are republican...here is some that I found (some was a shock)...

ACTORS
Danny Aiello
Joan Allen
Scott Baio
Stephen Baldwin
James Belushi
Tom Berenger
Ernest Borgnine
Bruce Boxleitner
Wilford Brimley
Morgan Brittany
Delta Burke
Dean Cain
Kirk Cameron
Drew Carey
Nancy Cartwright
Dixie Carter
Dana Carvey
Emma Caulfield
James Caviezel
Mike Connors
Robert Conrad
Kevin Costner
Tony Danza
Robert Davi
Doris Day
Bo Derek
Shannen Doherty
Fred Dryer (also football player)
Robert Duvall
Leslie Easterbrook
Clint Eastwood
Chad Everett
Jamie Farr
Glenn Ford
Peter Ford
Jeff Foxworthy
Dennis Franz
John Gavin
Sarah Michelle Gellar
Mel Gibson
Melissa Gilbert
Kelsey Grammer
Fred Grandy, also a former congressman from Iowa
George Hamilton
Angie Harmon
Patricia Heaton
Charlton Heston
Catherine Hicks
Hal Holbrook
Dennis Hopper
Jonathan Jackson
Dean Jones
James Earl Jones
Shirley Jones
Yaphet Kotto
Cheryl Ladd
Heather Locklear
Norm MacDonald
John Malkovich
Jackie Mason
Matthew McConaughey
Gerald McRaney
Dennis Miller
Larry Miller
Yvette Mimieux
Ricardo Montalban
Michael Moriarty
Jim Nabors
Leslie Nielsen
Chuck Norris
Maureen O'Hara
Fess Parker
Jason Priestley
Freddie Prinze, Jr.
Dennis Quaid
The Rock (Dwayne Johnson)
Wayne Rogers
Mickey Rooney
Jane Russell
Adam Sandler
John Schneider
Rick Schroder
Dwight Schultz
Arnold Schwarzenegger, 38th Governor of California
Tracy Scoggins
Tom Selleck
Ron Silver
Gary Sinise
Tony Sirico
Jaclyn Smith
Kevin Sorbo
Paul Sorvino
David Spade
Sylvester Stallone
Ben Stein
Jaclyn Smith
Shirley Temple
Dave Thomas
Fred Thompson, also a U.S. Senator from Tennessee 1994-2001
Tommy Tune
Janine Turner
Hunter Tylo
Jean-Claude Van Damme
Vince Vaughn
Jimmie Walker
Denzel Washington
Cindy Williams
Bruce Willis
Efrem Zimbalist Jr.

Country Music
Sara Evans (Played 2004 GOP convention)
Crystal Gayle
Lee Greenwood
Merle Haggard
Naomi Judd
Lyle Lovett
Loretta Lynn
Barbara Mandrell
Martina McBride
Reba McEntire
Ricky Skaggs
Randy Travis
Travis Tritt
Hank Williams, Jr.
Lee Ann Womack
LeAnn Rimes

Pop/Rock
Frankie Avalon
John Perry Barlow, former Grateful Dead lyricist and co-founder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation
Jeff "Skunk" Baxter
Pat Boone
Belinda Carlisle
Gary Cherone
Alice Cooper
Destiny's Child
Pat DiNizio, lead singer of The Smithereens
Dana Glover
Amy Grant
Sammy Hagar
James Hetfield, lead singer of Metallica
Chaka Khan
Kid Rock
Nick Lachey (98 Degrees)
Mike Love (The Beach Boys)
Johnny Mathis
Meat Loaf
Van Morrison
Wayne Newton
Ted Nugent
Marie Osmond
John Popper, lead singer of Blues Traveler
Jon Secada
Gene Simmons
Jessica Simpson
Michael W. Smith
Britney Spears
Frank Wyatt

amber

02-11-2005, 10:58 PM

Joan Allen?! Darn! :laugh:

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:02 PM

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:04 PM

One that did confuse me was Dennis "f*ck you authority" Hopper and even if it's true I couldn't give a ****.

He's a huge one. Considering that he claims to really be Frank Booth, though, I don't think the Republican party has much use for him.

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:04 PM

Wait, both Tom Berenger and Jonathan Jackson are? ****, what am I going to do?

One that did confuse me was Dennis "f*ck you authority" Hopper and even if it's true I couldn't give a ****.

Yes thats one that confused me too! lol...most of these I had already knew as republicans like...Sara Evans (most country singers), Sarah Michelle Gellar, Shannen Doherty (I have read a quote before where she said she was a strong supporter of Bush), Emma Caulfield (who said she would quit acting and join Elizabeth Dole's campaign if she ever ran for president). But again, some of the people on the list were a shock!

amber

02-11-2005, 11:05 PM

Joan Allen isn't a Republican. She's as liberal as they come. Didn't have kind words for Republicans when she was promoting The Contender. .
Whew! I really like her. :D

GateandGarden

02-11-2005, 11:05 PM

Stephen Baldwin
Kevin Costner
Tony Danza
Shannen Doherty
Jeff Foxworthy
Sarah Michelle Gellar
Mel Gibson
Patricia Heaton
Charlton Heston
Catherine Hicks
Chuck Norris
Freddie Prinze, Jr.
Sylvester Stallone
Ben Stein
Jean-Claude Van Damme
Naomi Judd
Randy Travis
Hank Williams, Jr.
Kid Rock
Nick Lachey (98 Degrees)
Jessica Simpson
Britney SpearsWell, I generally can't stand any of those people anyway. I wish I could smack Nick and Jessica, Catherine Hicks, Chuck Norris, Heaton, Judd, and a few of the others.

As for these people...

Leslie Nielson
Adam Sandler
David Spade
Denzel Washington
Bruce Willis
Sara Evans
Reba McEntire
LeAnn Rimes
I have at least some level of fondness for all of them (especially Reba, Denzel, and Sara). I'm not surprised about the country singers ('tis par for the course, most unfortunately for me, seeing Reba as one of my idols), but I am surprised about some of the others, Denzel Washington especially.

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:06 PM

GateandGarden

02-11-2005, 11:07 PM

Gellar isn't a Repug, either, her husband is. She's a big supporter and contributer to Planned Parenthood. Neither is Dennis Quaid.Oh. Well, I believed it at first. :shrug:

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:08 PM

Well, I generally can't stand any of those people anyway. I wish I could smack Nick and Jessica, Catherine Hicks, Chuck Norris, Heaton, Judd, and a few of the others.

As for these people...

I have at least some level of fondness for all of them (especially Reba, Denzel, and Sara). I'm not surprised about the country singers ('tis part for the course, most unfortunately for me, seeing Reba as one of my idols), but I am surprised about some of the others, Denzel Washington especially.

Sara Evans is a very strong republican, one of the reasons I love her (besides her awsome music!). She played GOP convention and has been one of the few republican celebrities to SPEAK OUT and be a proud conservative.

Patricia Heaton, whom I love, is very religious and a stron pro-lifer!

strandinthewind

02-11-2005, 11:09 PM

Joan Allen isn't a Republican. She's as liberal as they come. Didn't have kind words for Republicans when she was promoting The Contender. Gellar isn't a Repug, either, her husband is. She's a big supporter and contributer to Planned Parenthood. Neither is Dennis Quaid.

Interestingly, the source of the this information is not listed in that we are not provided with how this information was discerned. For example, Bo Derek and Ted Nugent have openly exclaimed in the past that they support the R part; I recognize some of those names from situations like that. But, we are not told how the information about the others was obtained or if they have previously voted R and did not do so in this last election. I certainly know more than one R who either did not vote or voted and not for W because of his INSANE economic policies like spending money by going trillions in debt.

xdreamsunwindx

02-11-2005, 11:10 PM

No! Not Adam Sandler, Ben Stein, Alice Cooper and John Popper! :distress:

GateandGarden

02-11-2005, 11:10 PM

Sara Evans is a very strong republican, one of the reasons I love her (besides her awsome music!). She played GOP convention and has been one of the few republican celebrities to SPEAK OUT and be a proud conservative.Yes, and Craig is quite the (conservative) political figure. But I love the lady's style and music.

Patricia Heaton, whom I love, is very religious and a stron pro-lifer!That is why I can't stand Heaton. But no surprise there. I understand her viewpoint to a degree but she's too radical for me.

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:12 PM

amber

02-11-2005, 11:12 PM

Yes, and Craig is quite the (conservative) political figure. But I love the lady's style and music.

That is why I can't stand Heaton. But no surprise there. I understand her viewpoint to a degree but she's too radical for me.

Ohhhhhh! About Heaton. :distress: I was suspecting that, though, cause she has like, 8 kids or something. :rolleyes:

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:12 PM

Interestingly, the source of the this information is not listed in that we are not provided with how this information was discerned. For example, Bo Derek and Ted Nugent have openly exclaimed in the past that they support the R part; I recognize some of those names from situations like that. But, we are not told how the information about the others was obtained or if they have previously voted R and did not do so in this last election. I certainly know more than one R who either did not vote or voted and not for W because of his INSANE economic policies like spending money by going trillions in debt.

Sorry I forgot to post the sites where I got this info! oops...hold on!

http://www.iridis.com/glivar/List_of_Republican_celebrities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republican_celebrities

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/List-of-Republican-celebrities

http://www.jerseygop.com/index.html

GateandGarden

02-11-2005, 11:12 PM

Sara Evans is a very strong republican, one of the reasons I love her (besides her awsome music!). She played GOP convention and has been one of the few republican celebrities to SPEAK OUT and be a proud conservative.Dare I ask...what issues has Sara spoken out about? I know she has openly admitted to being a conservative Republican, but what has she said about her thoughts and feelings on political issues? I've never read anything.

GateandGarden

02-11-2005, 11:13 PM

I was suspecting that, though, cause she has like, 8 kids or something. :rolleyes::laugh: :lol: :laugh:

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:13 PM

I was pretty sure Sarah Michelle was a republican, but I know Freddie is!

No Republican would give speeches on the behalf of Planned Parenthood.

Her husband, on the other hand, is a fool. Saw him on Leno and almost **** because he's so ill-informed.

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:14 PM

Dare I ask...what issues has Sara spoken out about? I know she has openly admitted to being a conservative Republican, but what has she said about her thoughts and feelings on political issues? I've never read anything.

Oh, I have never read any specific issues, I just have heard her express being a strong conservative and strong supporter of Bush. Nothing specific as far as I know.

GretaRhiannon

02-11-2005, 11:16 PM

Whoohoo heck yeah Sara, I have hecka pics of her at the Republican GOP heh, but yeah the majority I have no idea who they are, and a lot of the others suck. Plus a lot of Democrat celebrities suck too :shrug: Why isn't Kurt Russell on there? He's a huge Bush supporter

Miss Vicky

02-11-2005, 11:16 PM

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:16 PM

No! Not Adam Sandler, Ben Stein, Alice Cooper and John Popper! :distress:

Ben Stein is a huge Ralph Nader supporter, dear.

GateandGarden

02-11-2005, 11:18 PM

Ben Stein is a huge Ralph Nader supporter, dear.Huh? :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:19 PM

Phew, so we can knock Berenger off then. What would I have done?

He hates Repugs. I remember an interview he gave when At Play In the Field of the Lords came out where he said that they were to blame for most of the ills in society. :D

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:20 PM

Huh? :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

Donated thousands to him this past election.

GateandGarden

02-11-2005, 11:22 PM

Donated thousands to him this past election.But used to be a staunch Republican, right? I thought I read somewhere that he used to write speeches for one of our Republican presidents.

xdreamsunwindx

02-11-2005, 11:24 PM

Ben Stein is a huge Ralph Nader supporter, dear.

Thank GOD.

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:24 PM

But used to be a staunch Republican, right? I thought I read somewhere that he used to write speeches for one of our Republicans presidents.

He used to write speeches for Nixon, but he's a fairweather political friend. He'll go where there's money and that's all he's interested in, not gay marriage or Iraq.

GateandGarden

02-11-2005, 11:26 PM

He'll go where there's money and that's all he's interested in...Maybe I don't know a whole lot about him, but that doesn't sound like a great character trait to me. :shrug:

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:31 PM

For example, Bo Derek and Ted Nugent have openly exclaimed in the past that they support the R part

What is "10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1"?

Bo Derek aging.

:lol:

strandinthewind

02-11-2005, 11:32 PM

What is "10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1"?

Bo Derek aging.

:lol:

three words --- Wind on Water

:eek: :eek: :eek:

:laugh: :laugh:

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:34 PM

three words --- Wind on Water

:eek: :eek: :eek:

:laugh: :laugh:

:lol::lol::lol:

Bolero. Ghosts Can't Do It. Tarzan. The list goes on.

Check out her website for some real laughs. That shrine she has up of her late husband is scary. She thinks she can't get jobs because she's a Repug, but the real reason is because her tits are too saggy.

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:37 PM

:lol::lol::lol:

Bolero. Ghosts Can't Do It. Tarzan. The list goes on.

Check out her website for some real laughs. That shrine she has up of her late husband is scary. She thinks she can't get jobs because she's a Repug, but the real reason is because her tits are too saggy.

No, I think it might have something to do with being a republican. Like Emma Caulfield said that she would never openly say that she is a republican in hollywood, because she likes to work! LOL

amber

02-11-2005, 11:38 PM

:lol::lol::lol:

Bolero. Ghosts Can't Do It. Tarzan. The list goes on.

Check out her website for some real laughs. That shrine she has up of her late husband is scary. She thinks she can't get jobs because she's a Repug, but the real reason is because her tits are too saggy.
Wait, I thought she was really into animal rights. And she is a repub? S'weird.

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:40 PM

No, I think it might have something to do with being a republican. Like Emma Caulfield said that she would never openly say that she is a republican in hollywood, because she likes to work! LOL

You're insane. Her entire "career" consists of porn films that she shot with her husband and one failed television series. If you'd actually seen one of her films, you wouldn't say such a ridiculous thing.

And last time I checked, Emma Caulfield DID openly say she was a Republican. :shrug: Kind of shoots down any point she was attempting to make...

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:40 PM

Wait, I thought she was really into animal rights. And she is a repub? S'weird.

You can't be animal rights and republican?

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:41 PM

Wait, I thought she was really into animal rights. And she is a repub? S'weird.

No, she's against eating horse meat, but all for eating everything else. Typical Republican, so begins the hypocrisy...

amber

02-11-2005, 11:41 PM

You can't be animal rights and republican?
Nope!!!!!!

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:42 PM

You're insane. Her entire "career" consists of porn films that she shot with her husband and one failed television series. If you'd actually seen one of her films, you wouldn't say such a ridiculous thing.

And last time I checked, Emma Caulfield DID openly say she was a Republican. :shrug: Kind of shoots down any point she was attempting to make...

She was saying it more as a joke kind of...

"I would never fully admit to being a Republican in this town," she told Premiere, "I want to work."- Emma Caulfield

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:44 PM

Nope!!!!!!

That's a lie! Very simply put.

Now, supporting animal rights, and then being obsessed with animals (the very creepy "they are better than humans we shouldn't eat them" kinda thing) are two very different things. I believe you can be conservative and still support animal rights.

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:45 PM

She was saying it more as a joke kind of...

Just look at the company she's in. Ahnuld, Stephen Baldwin, and Janine Turner. Their collective talents set Hollywood ablaze.

Don't be bitter because we have the big guns, dear.

heyjupiter678

02-11-2005, 11:45 PM

I think Drew Carey's a Libertarian. I remember reading an interview where he said he refused to vote in the 2004 election, because both the Republican and Democratic parties are corrupt.

amber

02-11-2005, 11:46 PM

That's a lie! Very simply put.

Now, supporting animal rights, and then being obsessed with animals (the very creepy "they are better than humans we shouldn't eat them" kinda thing) are two very different things. I believe you can be conservative and still support animal rights.
Well, environmentalism is animal rights, too, and if you vote republican, then you don't support environmentalism.

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:46 PM

That's a lie! Very simply put.

Now, supporting animal rights, and then being obsessed with animals (the very creepy "they are better than humans we shouldn't eat them" kinda thing) are two very different things. I believe you can be conservative and still support animal rights.

But that would entail curbing the Sunday morning duck and deer hunts. What would Cheney and Scalia do?

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:47 PM

Just look at the company she's in. Ahnuld, Stephen Baldwin, and Janine Turner. Their collective talents set Hollywood ablaze.

Don't be bitter because we have the big guns, dear.

Trust me, I don't live my life for celebrities, they do more to hurt elections than anything else. Most of middle America could give a f*ck what someone like Ms. Striesand (who's talent I admire) has to say politically...a turn off!

Emma is a very talented actress, very funny. She diserves more roles in movies, she has a great talent. She was amazing in Buffy The Vampire Slayer (one of the only reasons I kept watching after the 5th season).

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:48 PM

I think Drew Carey's a Libertarian. I remember reading an interview where he said he refused to vote in the 2004 election, because both the Republican and Democratic parties are corrupt.

He doesn't seem to have any qualms about enabling the corrupt Republican party:

http://newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Drew_Carey.php

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:48 PM

But that would entail curbing the Sunday morning duck and deer hunts. What would Cheney and Scalia do?

Whats wrong with deer hunting, if you are going to eat the meant, then why is that a problem? If you are just going to kill it and chop its head off for your wall, then it's dead wrong!

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:50 PM

Trust me, I don't live my life for celebrities, they do more to hurt elections than anything else. Most of middle America could give a f*ck what someone like Ms. Striesand (who's talent I admire) has to say politically...a turn off!

Middle America gave us the neocon invasion, so I could give a f*ck what they think or say. I say we should secede and leave them to fend for themselves.

Emma is a very talented actress, very funny. She diserves more roles in movies, she has a great talent. She was amazing in Buffy The Vampire Slayer (one of the only reasons I kept watching after the 5th season).

She sure was Oscar-worthy in Darkness Falls.

strandinthewind

02-11-2005, 11:51 PM

But that would entail curbing the Sunday morning duck and deer hunts. What would Cheney and Scalia do?

a very real argument exists that says the D's are hardly a friend to animal rights as well - I mean was that Clinton that set a ban on animal testing for cosmetics as his high priority :shrug:

Plus, hunting is no more abuse than buying it at the store - I base this on having been to a slaughterhouse and also the horrid conditions some animal farmers keep their stock in. But, I know you aint gonna agree with that :laugh: :wavey: :laugh: :wavey:

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:51 PM

Well, environmentalism is animal rights, too, and if you vote republican, then you don't support environmentalism.

I do support the environment, I'm just not an obsessed "tree hugger - love mother nature (can we say idolatry ) or you are a hateful bastard" kind of person.

amber

02-11-2005, 11:52 PM

Whats wrong with deer hunting, if you are going to eat the meant, then why is that a problem? If you are just going to kill it and chop its head off for your wall, then it's dead wrong!
I don't think anything is wrong with hunting for meat. But again, Republicans absolutely do not care about the environment, so if you vote that way, you endorse that view.

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:53 PM

a very real argument exists that says the D's are hardly a friend to animal rights as well - I mean was that Clinton that set a ban on animal testing for cosmetics as his high priority :shrug:

I never said they were. Do I have to remind you, yet again, that I am not a Democrat and believe them to be just as evil as the Republican party? And I'm hardly a fan of Bubba.

Plus, hunting is no more abuse than buying it at the store - I base this on having been to a slaughterhouse and also the horrid conditions some animal farmers keep their stock in. But, I know you aint gonna agree with that :laugh: :wavey: :laugh: :wavey:

No, I'm not. :wavey:

amber

02-11-2005, 11:53 PM

I do support the environment, I'm just not an obsessed "tree hugger - love mother nature (can we say idolatry ) or you are a hateful bastard" kind of person.
No, by voting republican, you do not support it. You can say you do, but your vote specifically works against it.

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:53 PM

Middle America gave us the neocon invasion, so I could give a f*ck what they think or say. I say we should secede and leave them to fend for themselves.

Who exactly is we, because middle America, I promise you, will out number left-wingers by a long shot!

She sure was Oscar-worthy in Darkness Falls.

That has to do with script, not the talent. She has great potential (a lot better than some of the other "actors" out there)

Brwn_eyes0511

02-11-2005, 11:55 PM

I don't think anything is wrong with hunting for meat. But again, Republicans absolutely do not care about the environment, so if you vote that way, you endorse that view.

Well I guess the environment isn't on the top of my list when I choose which candidate to vote for, so I suppose you are right.

strandinthewind

02-11-2005, 11:58 PM

I never said they were. Do I have to remind you, yet again, that I am not a Democrat and believe them to be just as evil as the Republican party? And I'm hardly a fan of Bubba . . . .

well, ya flip flop a little on that one :nod: I mean eight months or so ago, you were all about Kerry :shrug: I realize you admitted that was a mistake or some other similar lang. (how could I forget you admitting something like that :laugh: ) - but you were pro D then. So, while not a D now, that was not the case a few months ago :cool:

This is not said in a snarky tone :cool:

dissention

02-11-2005, 11:58 PM

Who exactly is we, because middle America, I promise you, will out number left-wingers by a long shot!

How absurd. Why do you think electoral votes in "middle America" are so tiny compared to the coastal states? I want us to secede and leave the whack jobs to fend for themselves (all liberals can come with us, you're all welcome, dears). Then we'll really see who the "heart and soul" of this country is.

That has to do with script, not the talent. She has great potential (a lot better than some of the other "actors" out there)

She's yet another Hollywood-type corrupting the youth of America with a trashy film full of violence and bad language, silly. Shame on her.

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:00 AM

well, ya flip flop a little on that one :nod: I mean eight months or so ago, you were all about Kerry :shrug: I realize you admitted that was a mistake or some other similar lang. (how could I forget you admitting something like that :laugh: ) - but you were pro D then. So, while not a D now, that was not the case a few months ago :cool:

This is not said in a snarky tone :cool:

Yes, this is public knowledge, dear. But I saw the error of my ways and quickly severed all ties with that bastard party. So, I fail to see your point. :xoxo:

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:01 AM

Well I guess the environment isn't on the top of my list when I choose which candidate to vote for, so I suppose you are right.

How dare you disrespect God's creation like that.

Oh, I forgot, you're a Coulter fan and she said God gave us the environment to "rape."

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 12:04 AM

How absurd. Why do you think electoral votes in "middle America" are so tiny compared to the coastal states? I want us to secede and leave the whack jobs to fend for themselves (all liberals can come with us, you're all welcome, dears). Then we'll really see who the "heart and soul" of this country is.

She's yet another Hollywood-type corrupting the youth of America with a trashy film full of violence and bad language, silly. Shame on her.

Plus, the R's in general are all about slamming and financially ruining amny celeb. that is vocal to their disliking - yet they are all about supporting the ones that agree with them.

I mean Natalie Maines said she was embarrassed W was from Texas and the Fox commentators actually said she aided and abetted SH and/or OBL - which was just nonsense. Yet, when people came out against Clinton during out armed conflicts, no such witch hunts existed. I mean the US was in a combat situation then - what's the diff. - I certainly see none :shrug:

Thus, I conclude, like everything else, the press loves to call Hollywood a pack of screaming liberals who are to uneducated to express an opinion - but when one does it in support of the neocon view - they are allowed :rolleyes:

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:05 AM

Whats wrong with deer hunting, if you are going to eat the meant, then why is that a problem? If you are just going to kill it and chop its head off for your wall, then it's dead wrong!

Eat it, sure. Stuff it, no. Where's the logic in that? Are they going to starve to death if they can't eat freshly murdered duck? I think not. Live and let live unless it's a necessity.

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 12:06 AM

Yes, this is public knowledge, dear. But I saw the error of my ways and quickly severed all ties with that bastard party. So, I fail to see your point. :xoxo:

I thought your reply "Do I have to remind you, yet again, that I am not a Democrat and believe them to be just as evil as the Republican party? And I'm hardly a fan of Bubba." implied (at least to me) that you were never a D, etc. I just wanted to clear up that implication - that is all :wavey: I fully agree you disowned them once Kerry screwed it up.

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:09 AM

How dare you disrespect God's creation like that.

Oh, I forgot, you're a Coulter fan and she said God gave us the environment to "rape."

I know that the earth is not my real home, I'm just passing through.

btw...God DID give us the earth.

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 12:10 AM

Eat it, sure. Stuff it, no. Where's the logic in that? Are they going to starve to death if they can't eat freshly murdered duck? I think not. Live and let live unless it's a necessity.

Again, go to a slaughterhouse - that is what the nicely packaged meat in the supermarket looked like when it was living and breathing a few days before. Moreover the techinques some slaughterhouses use, which I am not going to go into, are not more human than shooting an animal - in fact, some do shoot the animal :shrug: Finally, most of the meat sold is so full of impurities that I am glad the option exists to get your own.

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:10 AM

I thought your reply "Do I have to remind you, yet again, that I am not a Democrat and believe them to be just as evil as the Republican party? And I'm hardly a fan of Bubba." implied (at least to me) that you were never a D, etc. I just wanted to clear up that implication - that is all :wavey: I fully agree you disowned them once Kerry screwed it up.

I don't think it's any secret that I used to be a Democrat, why in the heck would I try to say I wasn't? :laugh: Just as I don't think it's any secret that I went and registered Green right after the election.

heyjupiter678

02-12-2005, 12:11 AM

He doesn't seem to have any qualms about enabling the corrupt Republican party:

http://newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Drew_Carey.php
Hmm. I looked for the interview I was talking about, but all I could find was this short q&a he did for reason.com: http://www.reason.com/0411/fe.dc.whos.shtml

Drew Carey

2004 vote: Quit pretending that it matters, would you? Can you vote for all the nefarious cabals that really run the world? No. So f*ck it.

2000 vote: I voted Libertarian, for all the good it did me.

Most embarrassing vote: Is it considered embarrassing to cast a vote out of principle for someone you know doesn’t have a snowball’s chance of winning? Oh, OK. Then they’re all embarrassing.

Favorite president: Andrew Jackson, because he’s what a lap dance costs (and because, ironically, he opposed having a National Bank).

----

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 12:12 AM

I don't think it's any secret that I used to be a Democrat, why in the heck would I try to say I wasn't? :laugh: Just as I don't think it's any secret that I went and registered Green right after the election.

I now that - but I got the implication that you were skirting that in you response to my post - I mean you did not say "I am no longer a D," which would have been clearer. So, I brought it up. I am glad I was wrong for inferring that :cool:

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:13 AM

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:13 AM

I know that the earth is not my real home, I'm just passing through.

You don't **** where you sleep do you? Then don't "rape" or treat the Earth as a toilet.

btw...God DID give us the earth.

No, he didn't. But I don't believe in God or any of that mumbo jumbo, so I'm not the person to ask if you want confirmation for your beliefs. :)

GateandGarden

02-12-2005, 12:14 AM

Favorite president: Andrew Jackson, because he’s what a lap dance costs (and because, ironically, he opposed having a National Bank).:distress: Does he kid? I can't forget how he basically said, "F*ck you, Native Americans," though he didn't actually say that. He didn't have to, though.

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:14 AM

ahhh the party that will never win an election...The Green party ;)

Ahhh, the only party with integrity.

GateandGarden

02-12-2005, 12:15 AM

I know that the earth is not my real home, I'm just passing through.

btw...God DID give us the earth.Both of those statements are beliefs and not proven facts.

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:16 AM

Ahhh, the only party with integrity.

integrity, :rolleyes:

still, will never win!

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 12:16 AM

Ahhh, the only party with integrity.

and even they have their problems and issues with how to best rape the environment with causing the least amount of damage :shrug: I say this solely to note that no political party exists that is for not raping the Earth just a little :shrug: I readily admit though the Green Party seems to want the most reform and that reformation would help the Earth the most while we violate it.

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:17 AM

integrity, :rolleyes:

still, will never win!

How juvenile. I'd hate to be the sad chap who played checkers with you.

GateandGarden

02-12-2005, 12:17 AM

ahhh the party that will never win an election...The Green party ;)It's not the only one without a chance. Really, it has a better chance than, say, the Prohibition Party. :laugh:

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:17 AM

Both of those statements are beliefs and not proven facts.

Actually the first statement is a proven fact, regardless of whether you believe in God or not...

We will not be on this earth FOREVER, its not a permanent home, we are just "passing through" or "here for a while"

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:18 AM

and even they have their problems and issues with how to best rape the environment with causing the least amount of damage :shrug: I say this solely to note that no political party exists that is for not raping the Earth just a little :shrug: I readily admit though the Green Party seems to want the most reform and that reformation would help the Earth the most while we violate it.

At least they have an ongoing dialogue about it, which cannot be said for the Democrats or the Republicans.

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:20 AM

We will not be on this earth FOREVER, its not a permanent home, we are just "passing through" or "here for a while"

Then we die and worms eat us. So, we're here for quite a long while. :wavey:

GateandGarden

02-12-2005, 12:20 AM

Actually the first statement is a proven fact, regardless of whether you believe in God or not...

We will not be on this earth FOREVER, its not a permanent home, we are just "passing through" or "here for a while"You have no proof that Earth is not our home. Earth may be our only home. This may be all there is to it. And, it's a possibility that those who have passed on are still here, just in a different form. So, no, I'm not seeing how that's a proven fact that Earth is not our home.

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 12:20 AM

At least they have an ongoing dialogue about it, which cannot be said for the Democrats or the Republicans.

Oh - ITA - i like alot of what the GP stands for http://www.greenparty.org/Platform.html but I just never really vote for them because like in the last situation I thought it more important to vote for Kerry because I think W is so dangerous for us.

GateandGarden

02-12-2005, 12:21 AM

Then we die and worms eat us. So, we're here for quite a long while. :wavey:You don't have to present your beliefs as though they are proven facts as well. They aren't either. :wavey:

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:21 AM

How juvenile. I'd hate to be the sad chap who played checkers with you.

I know, I'm a smart a** sometimes...It's part of my Charmed (did someone say Alyssa Milano?!?!) :sorry: What I was going to say was, it is part of my CHARM! :laugh:

;)

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:22 AM

Oh - ITA - i like alot of what the GP stands for http://www.greenparty.org/Platform.html but I just never really vote for them because like in the last situation I thought it more important to vote for Kerry because I think W is so dangerous for us.

If I was going to vote for who I wanted, I would have voted for either Kucinich, Braun, or Sharpton. But I fell into the Kerry trap like many others and still saw Shrubya get inuagurated. :rolleyes:

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:23 AM

You don't have to present your beliefs as though they are proven facts as well. They aren't either. :wavey:

Wow, thanks! :thumbsup:

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:23 AM

You don't have to present your beliefs as though they are proven facts as well. They aren't either. :wavey:

Tit for tat, dear. It's the only way to play the game with Brown Eyes. :wavey:

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 12:25 AM

If I was going to vote for who I wanted, I would have voted for either Kucinich, Braun, or Sharpton. But I fell into the Kerry trap like many others and still saw Shrubya get inuagurated. :rolleyes:

Well and again, Kerry almost won :shrug: AND - if the states of Ohio and Florida had played fair with the placement of enough voting machines in the heavily D districts, etc. who knows - he may have won. So, his strategy was not wholly ineffective according to that and the stats show that the middle got him there. So, while I am no fan of Kerry's attitude and strategic planning in the last election, I give him that.

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:26 AM

Well and again, Kerry almost won :shrug: AND - if the states of Ohio and Florida had played fair with the placement of enough voting machines in the heavily D districts, etc. who knows - he may have won. So, his strategy was not wholly ineffective according to that and the stats show that the middle got him there. So, while I am no fan of Kerry's attitude and strategic planning in the last election, I give him that.

I'm still not convinced it wasn't a Skull and Bones scam.

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:27 AM

I forgot about that. -_-

Sigh. Disappointment.

So I take it you like Emma (or at least DID at one point)

I think she is such a great actress! And easy on the eyes as well!!!! :cool:

http://www.buffy.net-agenten.de/bilder/caulfield2.jpg

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:28 AM

So I take it you like Emma (or at least DID at one point)

I think she is such a great actress! And very beautiful

http://www.buffy.net-agenten.de/bilder/caulfield2.jpg

How conservative! :shocked: :distress:

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 12:28 AM

I'm still not convinced it wasn't a Skull and Bones scam.

in which both Kerry and W participated :eek: to wit

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-10.htm

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:29 AM

How conservative! :shocked: :distress:

Just because you have conservative politics doesn't mean you can't show what the good Lord gave ya! :lol:

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:29 AM

in which both Kerry and W participated :eek: to wit

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-10.htm

:nod: I think they conned us big time. It's truly scary once you wrap your head around it.

amber

02-12-2005, 12:33 AM

in which both Kerry and W participated :eek: to wit

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-10.htm
Holy Scary Scarrison. Great. Not as if I didn't suspect, but. :( Thanks for posting, I found that very interesting. :xoxo:

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:34 AM

Oh, I love Emma. She's awesome. Especially when she reeeally got to shine on Buffy (like in The Body & Selfless, to name a few).

I'm just bitter that Joss killed off her character for no reason. Still. After two years. F*ck you, Joss. -_- And, yeah, Republican and all, but we can't win them all.

Buffy, is one of my fav. shows of all time. (season 5 being my fav.)

The Body is a work of art! One of the finest hours on TV.

and Anya is one of the funnies TV characters ever!

I HATE that Joss killed her off! WHY? It was for no reason! POOR ANYANKA! ;) :distress:

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 12:34 AM

:nod: I think they conned us big time. It's truly scary once you wrap your head around it.

It is a little hard to think that it actually was that. I mean Kerry almost won - so I guess that was an acceptable variation in the equation. Interestingly, I think issues like Sep. of church and state, abortion and gay rights and, to a lesser extent, taxes are just exciters in that they do not mind using them to excite the moronic masses into thinking that is where the candidate is focused, when the reality suggests it is all a financial game to them a la Halliburton in Iraq. They do not mind denying rights and making a class of citizens hated and soldiers murdered for financial gain. I mean didn't everyone read "Captains and Kings" :eek:

amber

02-12-2005, 12:35 AM

It is a little hard to think that it actually was that. I mean Kerry almost won - so I guess that was an acceptable variation in the equation. Interestingly, I think issues like Sep. of church and state, abortion and gay rights and, to a lesser extent, taxes are just exciters in that they do not mind using them to excite the moronic masses into thinking that is where the candidate is focused, when the reality suggests it is all a financial game to them a la Halliburton in Iraq. They do not mind denying rights and making a class of citizens hated and soldiers murdered for financial gain. I mean didn't everyone read "Captains and Kings" :eek:
I totally agree. I think politics is completely about money/power, and the power over money/resources. :)

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:36 AM

Holy Scary Scarrison. Great. Not as if I didn't suspect, but. :( Thanks for posting, I found that very interesting. :xoxo:

Have you read up on Skull and Bones, Amber? That **** is freaky. Nightmare inducing. :nod:

As for the original topic at hand, the only thing that could make me cry is if I discovered Nicole Kidman and Jake Weber were Repuglicans. My soul would weep silent tears of agony and disappointment. I know La Debs is as liberal as they come, so I don't have to worry there...

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:39 AM

Have you read up on Skull and Bones, Amber? That **** is freaky. Nightmare inducing. :nod:

As for the original topic at hand, the only thing that could make me cry is if I discovered Nicole Kidman and Jake Weber were Repuglicans. My soul would weep silent tears of agony and disappointment. I know La Debs is as liberal as they come, so I don't have to worry there...

Oh your a Nicole fan! We have something major in common.

(Nicole does, btw, believe in God :eek: and is Catholic, and something she holds dear to her [divorce aside and all] she even didn't want Tom to raise the kids in the church of scientology! She wanted them to be raised Catholic!)

But I love Nicole she is the best!!!! Moulin Rouge is my fav. Nic film!

amber

02-12-2005, 12:40 AM

Have you read up on Skull and Bones, Amber? That **** is freaky. Nightmare inducing. :nod:

As for the original topic at hand, the only thing that could make me cry is if I discovered Nicole Kidman and Jake Weber were Repuglicans. My soul would weep silent tears of agony and disappointment. I know La Debs is as liberal as they come, so I don't have to worry there...
No, I haven't read up, just read random things here and there. I did know it was freaky, but i would like to know more about exactly what it is doing.
Oh, don't worry, Nicky and Jakey would never be like that, I'm sure. :cool:
I had a similar crush on Dennis Miller back awhile ago, and saw (as you know) my lust dashed on the rocks of his Republicanism. I still think he's incredibly clever, but I can't stand it anymore when he speaks about politics. :( My heart is broken...

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 12:40 AM

I totally agree. I think politics is completely about money/power, and the power over money/resources. :)

I mean look at the Carlisle Group - it is terrifying to think people can really be this evil - and they bank on that as well as people unwillingness to think this kind of evil is possible :eek:

http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm

http://www.democracynow.org/print.pl?sid=03/09/16/1559208

and there are MANY more articles :nod:

I mean as a brilliant Ledge pointed out at the time, Poppy Bush and others have significant interests in the Tsunami struck areas - and the US gives over a billion to it when tough the US is generous, such an action is somewhat rare.

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:42 AM

Oh your a Nicole fan! We have something major in common.

(Nicole does, btw, believe in God :eek: and is Catholic, and something she holds dear to her [divorce aside and all] she even didn't want Tom to raise the kids in the church of scientology! She wanted them to be raised Catholic!)

But I love Nicole she is the best!!!! Moulin Rouge is my fav. Nic film!

I? Love Nicole Kidman. Huge fan. My favorite is Dogville, quickly followed by her performances in The Human Stain and Moulin Rouge.

Catholics are scary, but Scientologists are just as scary. They're nut jobs of the highest order.

amber

02-12-2005, 12:43 AM

I mean look at the Carlisle Group - it is terrifying to think people can really be this evil - and they bank on that as well as people unwillingness to think this kind of evil is possible :eek:

http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm

http://www.democracynow.org/print.pl?sid=03/09/16/1559208

and there are MANY more articles :nod:

I mean as a brilliant Ledge pointed out at the time, Poppy Bush and others have significant interests in the Tsunami struck areas - and the US gives over a billion to it when tough the US is generous, such an action is somewhat rare.
I assume that brilliant ledgie was you? :laugh: I will read those. I swear, though, if I read all the articles you posted, I would never do anything else! :laugh: :xoxo:

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:43 AM

Have you read up on Skull and Bones, Amber? That **** is freaky. Nightmare inducing. :nod:

As for the original topic at hand, the only thing that could make me cry is if I discovered Nicole Kidman and Jake Weber were Repuglicans. My soul would weep silent tears of agony and disappointment. I know La Debs is as liberal as they come, so I don't have to worry there...

This is about the only dialogue of Nicole I can find, where she even mentions politics (I think she prefers to stay out of it!)

Ray Martin: Was it your dad who said to you two things — two rules in life — one, exercise every day and the other one, you never vote for the Republican Party in America?

Nicole Kidman: I think it was the other party here. It wasn't the Republicans. My dad would make us do push-ups in the morning.

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:44 AM

No, I haven't read up, just read random things here and there. I did know it was freaky, but i would like to know more about exactly what it is doing.
Oh, don't worry, Nicky and Jakey would never be like that, I'm sure. :cool:
I had a similar crush on Dennis Miller back awhile ago, and saw (as you know) my lust dashed on the rocks of his Republicanism. I still think he's incredibly clever, but I can't stand it anymore when he speaks about politics. :( My heart is broken...

I had Netzero dial-up and canceled it without hesitation as soon as Miller became their spokesperson. That's why I now have DSL. :laugh: When they asked me why I was canceling, I told them they were right-wing enablers. :laugh:

He had Yeardley Smith on a few months back and she kicked his ass with her vicious tongue. Love her.

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 12:45 AM

I assume that brilliant ledgie was you? :laugh: I will read those. I swear, though, if I read all the articles you posted, I would never do anything else! :laugh: :xoxo:

well though I am sooooooo brilliant :laugh: :rolleyes: :laugh: it was Goldie!!!!!!

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 12:46 AM

I had a similar crush on Dennis Miller back awhile ago, and saw (as you know) my lust dashed on the rocks of his Republicanism. I still think he's incredibly clever, but I can't stand it anymore when he speaks about politics. :( My heart is broken...

Never give up hope, Amber... Miller jumped over to the Conservative bandwagon because his career was dipping down to Piscipo levels. He knew being a right-wing talking-head was where the money is these days, so he sold himself out.

But, as they always do, the tides will turn once again... and so will Miller's political "beliefs." :nod:

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:46 AM

This is about the only dialogue of Nicole I can find, where she even mentions politics (I think she prefers to stay out of it!)

I'll chew my foot off if she is a Republican. I don't see it at all, especially with her coming from the land of Murdoch.

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 12:47 AM

I? Love Nicole Kidman. Huge fan. My favorite is Dogville, quickly followed by her performances in The Human Stain and Moulin Rouge.

Catholics are scary, but Scientologists are just as scary. They're nut jobs of the highest order.

Dogville was a crap movie! The only good thing about it was that Nicole was in it. It was a very BAD MOVIE (really awful reviews too)! But I guess you knew I wouldn't have liked that movie! ;)
I loved the Human Stain.

Sorry you think Catholics are scary :shrug:

But Nicole is very much a Catholic girl.

amber

02-12-2005, 12:48 AM

I had Netzero dial-up and canceled it without hesitation as soon as Miller became their spokesperson. That's why I now have DSL. :laugh: When they asked me why I was canceling, I told them they were right-wing enablers. :laugh:

He had Yeardley Smith on a few months back and she kicked his ass with her vicious tongue. Love her.
*sigh* I still can't bring myself to talk bad about him. The wound is so fresh, and I really had a crush on him. :( And i rarely have actual crushes on people i have never met. He's a scorpio, too. :(
Uh, I respect you for changing your service. :)

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:49 AM

Dogville was a crap movie! The only good thing about it was that Nicole was in it. It was a very BAD MOVIE (really awful reviews too)! But I guess you knew I wouldn't have liked that movie! ;)
I loved the Human Stain.

Sorry you think Catholics are scary :shrug:

But Nicole is very much a Catholic girl.

Dogville is a masterpiece, IMO, and it didn't get really bad reviews, it got mixed reviews. You either loved it or hated it. It was from Lars Von Trier, after all. She deserves an Oscar for her performance in it. One of my all-time favorite movies, it doesn't get any better. :nod: And I can't believe you liked Human Stain, that's such a liberal movie. :laugh:

And, yes, Catholics are scary to me. What I wouldn't give to erase all religions.

amber

02-12-2005, 12:51 AM

Never give up hope, Amber... Miller jumped over to the Conservative bandwagon because his career was dipping down to Piscipo levels. He knew being a right-wing talking-head was where the money is these days, so he sold himself out.

But, as they always do, the tides will turn once again... and so will Miller's political "beliefs." :nod:
I don't think that's why he switched, Stewleone. In fact I think for awhile he was less favored because of it. I remember he was a Perot supporter, so I think it kind of started a bit there. I think he switched when he started making more money, and he has also always been a bit of a well, "f*** em, let's just kill all the morons" kind of guy. I think it was 9/11 which actually pushed him over the edge, idealogically. :)

dissention

02-12-2005, 12:53 AM

amber

02-12-2005, 12:55 AM

Yes, but you must admit, his career was in the ****ter. :lol:
yeah, but he never had an incredible career to begin with. :shrug: He's always been very, well, I was going to say "hit or miss", but mostly it's been "miss". :lol: But I think his references and comedy style just naturally aren't for everyone. I mean, only a few would get everything he says. I still think his "Live from Washington" and "Live From" uh...I forgot the name of the other one - are incredibly, incredibly funny. But that is almost literally, "just me" :lol: and a few of my friends. :)
*sigh* yep, the heartbreak is still fresh. :( oops, sorry, just having a "moment" there.

EnchantedSLN

02-12-2005, 12:57 AM

Hmm... nobody on that list really surprised me.

Who exactly is we, because middle America, I promise you, will out number left-wingers by a long shot!

Eh. Enjoy it while it lasts. Societies become more liberal as time goes on (either that, or they simply fail). What was taboo a hundred years ago is commonplace today. Most of the conservative views that are dominant right now will, in another hundred years, be just as archaic and laughable as, say, women not being able to wear pants. The barrage of right wing attacks on various freedoms we're currently seeing is just a desperate reeling against the inevitable.

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 01:01 AM

Dogville is a masterpiece, IMO, and it didn't get really bad reviews, it got mixed reviews. You either loved it or hated it. It was from Lars Von Trier, after all. She deserves an Oscar for her performance in it. One of my all-time favorite movies, it doesn't get any better. :nod: And I can't believe you liked Human Stain, that's such a liberal movie. :laugh:

And, yes, Catholics are scary to me. What I wouldn't give to erase all religions.

It is a liberal movie, I didn't think it was THAT liberal, but I really did enjoy Nicole in it!

Id really shock you with the type of movies/music I like!

Like one of my all time fav. movies is Cabaret!!!! Not exactly what you would expect my fav. movie to be now, is it? ;)

amber

02-12-2005, 01:03 AM

Hmm... nobody on that list really surprised me.

Eh. Enjoy it while it lasts. Societies become more liberal as time goes on (either that, or they simply fail). What was taboo a hundred years ago is commonplace today. Most of the conservative views that are dominant right now will, in another hundred years, be just as archaic and laughable as, say, women not being able to wear pants. The barrage of right wing attacks on various freedoms we're currently seeing is just a desperate reeling against the inevitable.
Very astute, 'Chanti, as usual. I, too, think this neocon wave is a last grasp at what society is rapidly evolving away from. (If I got your point right) :)

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 01:05 AM

Very astute, 'Chanti, as usual. I, too, think this neocon wave is a last grasp at what society is rapidly evolving away from. (If I got your point right) :)

Where there is a human race so to will there be conservatives!

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 01:05 AM

I don't think that's why he switched, Stewleone. In fact I think for awhile he was less favored because of it. I remember he was a Perot supporter, so I think it kind of started a bit there. I think he switched when he started making more money, and he has also always been a bit of a well, "f*** em, let's just kill all the morons" kind of guy. I think it was 9/11 which actually pushed him over the edge, idealogically. :)

Miller's old SNL weekend updates were all very liberal-skewed. He was intelligent, funny and insightful back then.
Then he became a part of the very machine he used to lambaste, and kisses the ass of a president he would have skewered within an inch of his life back in the 80s.

I knew he was a money-whore the minute he signed on to do MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL. :rolleyes:

As for his ideology changing with 9/11... well, I think a LOT of people's eyes were opened that day. But it's too bad so many people went into "just slaughter everyone who ain't American and Christian!" mode, while the rest of us focused in on finding where things went wrong and how we can repair them.

EnchantedSLN

02-12-2005, 01:06 AM

I'll chew my foot off if she is a Republican. I don't see it at all, especially with her coming from the land of Murdoch.

Sleep easy, Diss ;) http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?city=Los+Angeles&st=CA&last=Kidman&first=Nicole

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 01:07 AM

The barrage of right wing attacks on various freedoms we're currently seeing is just a desperate reeling against the inevitable.

They're gasping their last breath, and they're panicking.

The writing's on the wall. :nod:

amber

02-12-2005, 01:08 AM

Miller's old SNL weekend updates were all very liberal-skewed. He was intelligent, funny and insightful back then.
Then he became a part of the very machine he used to lambaste, and kisses the ass of a president he would have skewered within an inch of his life back in the 80s.

I knew he was a money-whore the minute he signed on to do MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL. :rolleyes:

As for his ideology changing with 9/11... well, I think a LOT of people's eyes were opened that day. But it's too bad so many people went into "just slaughter everyone who ain't American and Christian!" mode, while the rest of us focused in on finding where things went wrong and how we can repair them.
Yeah, I know. So heartbreaking. But as for the Monday night football thing, to be fair, Dennis really does looooove football. :shrug: I think that's part of why he took that job, I think he is smart enough to know that he wouldn't be a "natural" for it. :shrug:
It is too bad about 9/11, I think he said something like "It's kind of like the stone age, if some f***wad is messing up the water hole, you go knock him on the head with a big rock!" Oh, well.

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 01:09 AM

WOW, Sam Raimi has give lots of money to republican candidates! I love him, awsome to know!!!

amber

02-12-2005, 01:11 AM

Where there is a human race so to will there be conservatives!
kay. yeah, because they don't care at all about population control! :laugh: :lol: :laugh:

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 01:15 AM

Yeah, I know. So heartbreaking. But as for the Monday night football thing, to be fair, Dennis really does looooove football. :shrug: I think that's part of why he took that job, I think he is smart enough to know that he wouldn't be a "natural" for it. :shrug:
For the money he was making, I think I'd be a football fan, too! :laugh: ;)

It is too bad about 9/11, I think he said something like "It's kind of like the stone age, if some f***wad is messing up the water hole, you go knock him on the head with a big rock!" Oh, well.
Yeah, his position on it was very disappointing. I would have expected something a little more enlightened from someone supposedly so intelligent.
Which is why I tend to think ol' Denny was just saying what he knows people wanted to hear... thus protecting his source of income.

amber

02-12-2005, 01:17 AM

For the money he was making, I think I'd be a football fan, too! :laugh: ;)

Yeah, his position on it was very disappointing. I would have expected something a little more enlightened from someone supposedly so intelligent.
Which is why I tend to think ol' Denny was just saying what he knows people wanted to hear... thus protecting his source of income.
Well, I actually somewhat disagree about both things, though i'm sure he is a bit of a money whore. Although it says something against that that he made fun of himself for the phone commercials, and also tried to get out of his contract for "Bordello of Blood" :lol: :laugh: (which i love, by the way). I don't think he was saying what he was just cause he thought it's what people wanted to hear, though. i think he really thinks what he says. Nevertheless, we both agree that whyever he is doing it, it is very disappointing. :nod: *sob* - he was so sexy... :laugh:

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 01:24 AM

*sob* - he was so sexy... :laugh:

I always had a strange fascination with Dennis' hands. They're small for guy, and VERY sexy to me.

Man, I AM a weirdo! :eek:

amber

02-12-2005, 01:32 AM

I always had a strange fascination with Dennis' hands. They're small for guy, and VERY sexy to me.

Man, I AM a weirdo! :eek:
:laugh: :lol: :laugh:
No, that's not strange. I always look at men's hands. However, I prefer them to be big... ;) So, i guess, that's another reason to be disappointed in Dennis. :lol: *crush fading* :laugh: :p

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 02:20 AM

I'm about the least feminist person here but because it's you, I'll turn on my sensetivity and treat you. That good lord of yours did not give you women to ogle, in fact they weren't given to you at all.

And Diss, the land of Murdoch? Please no! How many times must we apologise?

My satement never hinted at anything about "women being given to men" I said there is no harm in showing what the good lord gave ya! I didn't say "the good lord gave them to us men"

:rolleyes:

tynan88

02-12-2005, 03:48 AM

Please guys, I don't want to apologise from giving the world Rupert Murdoch again, WE ARE SORRY!

amber

02-12-2005, 03:57 AM

in which both Kerry and W participated :eek: to wit

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-10.htm
I just wanted to bump this because everyone should read the transcript. It's just the most disgusting, frightening, bizarre thing I've read in awhile. :D
Here's is a short excerpt:
" I think partly because for George W. Bush, his Skull and Bones connections sort of work with the whole theory that he's riding his father's coattails and that he has gotten his way in life because of his connections, which I would agree with, and which I have traced in secrets of the tomb, to align closely with his Skull and Bones connections. He turned to Skull and Bones throughout his career for help. Even his Rangers deal, which is supposed to be the one thing he achieved on his own, had at least one Bonesman involved. Kerry has not relied on Skull and Bones. He hasn't made it a huge part of his life in terms of something that would boost his career or really put the -- propel him although he has turned to Skull and Bones in his personal life. But Kerry has been just as involved as Bush, I think. Although he will be as quick to deny that as the president will.

AMY GOODMAN: Does it matter to Skull and Bones who wins this presidential race?

ALEXANDRA ROBBINS: No. That's a good question and one that I asked many Bonesmen and the way they describe it is a win-win situation. As long as there's a Bonesman in the White House there are going to be many more Bonesmen in the administration."

dissention

02-12-2005, 10:14 AM

It is a liberal movie, I didn't think it was THAT liberal, but I really did enjoy Nicole in it!

It's based on a (fabulous) book by Philip Roth, darling. It doesn't get more liberal than that! It takes place in academic Western Mass during the Clinton scandal, for cripes sake. :laugh:

Id really shock you with the type of movies/music I like!

Like one of my all time fav. movies is Cabaret!!!! Not exactly what you would expect my fav. movie to be now, is it? ;)

Cabaret is fabulous. ;)

dissention

02-12-2005, 10:15 AM

Sleep easy, Diss ;) http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?city=Los+Angeles&st=CA&last=Kidman&first=Nicole

Be still my heart. :laugh:

Love ya, dear, thanks for putting my head to rest. :xoxo:

dissention

02-12-2005, 10:23 AM

WOW, Sam Raimi has give lots of money to republican candidates! I love him, awsome to know!!!

Until he goes through with the American Gothic movie and putting the whole series on DVD, I've no use for him. Spider Man sucked. :laugh:

dissention

02-12-2005, 10:25 AM

And Diss, the land of Murdoch? Please no! How many times must we apologise?

You can never apologize enough. Just like we can't apologize enough for Bush and all the other ****ty leaders we've forced the rest of the world to endure. :laugh:

GardenStateGirlie

02-12-2005, 11:50 AM

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 12:45 PM

Check your sources, darling, because they're full of excrement.

http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Joan_Allen.php
http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Jim_Belushi.php
http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Tom_Berenger.php
http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/Melissa_Gilbert.php

I laffed out loud! scatalogical smell! steaming sh*thouse stinkiness! disgusting dung! (whats brown and sounds like a bell? DUNG!) oh Ill quit, but that was so funny!
;)

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 12:52 PM

I am pleased to see that with the possible exception of John Malkovich, nobody I give a crap about or have any respect for is on this list.

Im with ya, but I was surprised to see Van Morrison on that list, how can someone who writes such sensitive songs be there? must be his Jehovah's Witness upbringing (he was a true outsider in Ireland, not Catholic, not Protestant! What WERE his parents thinking?)

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 01:08 PM

I know that the earth is not my real home, I'm just passing through.

btw...God DID give us the earth.

OMG! he's MORK from ORK! nanuu nanuu

also, Ill have you know that God expects us to be STEWARDS of his creation, not exploiters or destroyers of it. The actions of a few shortsighted individuals (think Bush/Cheney straightfacedly stating there is no global warming problem, then think of the polar ice caps actually breaking apart (TRUE) and the increase in tropical storms and the rampant extinction of species and the systematic death of our oceans and the destruction of the majority of this planet's trees or the hole in the ozone layer (all TRUE) and you get the idea) are ruining this planet for everyone. EVERYONE. we will ALL die because of their greed and lack of foresight.
:eek:

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 01:16 PM

a very real argument exists that says the D's are hardly a friend to animal rights as well - I mean was that Clinton that set a ban on animal testing for cosmetics as his high priority :shrug:

Plus, hunting is no more abuse than buying it at the store - I base this on having been to a slaughterhouse and also the horrid conditions some animal farmers keep their stock in. But, I know you aint gonna agree with that :laugh: :wavey: :laugh: :wavey:

how is a ban on animal testing for cosmetics not being a friend to animals?

and: comparing hunting to the business of raising stock animals for feed is a bit lopsided, sort of like comparing buying a christmas tree off the lot to going out into the mountains and cutting one down......on the one hand, you have a business that raises feed animals, on the other you have people who cant stay away from guns going out into the wilderness (or sometimes to artificial hunts where the animals are penned and shot as they stand there in a herd)
and killing the animals where they live...its disgusting to me. A gun only has ONE purpose, to KILL. I HATE GUNS. The minute it has a bullet in it, it is death on demand.

macfanken

02-12-2005, 01:25 PM

I thought it would be interesting to do a search to see what celebrities are republican...here is some that I found (some was a shock)...

Well, I'm sure God loves them anyway.

heyjupiter678

02-12-2005, 01:29 PM

Well, I'm sure God loves them anyway. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 01:35 PM

I still maintain it's all about how you were raised and where you were raised as well as what your situation in life is. Like i've always said, people don't vote with other people in mind....they vote for themselves. Tell me...those that went on in their adult lives to become democrats....were your parents primarily democratic in their views as well? Just curious.
YES! but the weird thing is, my grandparents were Republican...they voted for Reagan twice and then sat around complaining about what he was doing to them! STUPID! The WWII Generation, the huge Conservative group of oldsters, is gonna die soon and hopefully the demographics will change. Unfortunately, the 80's saw a revival of conservatism with the rise of that gawdawful actor/governor from CA, Ronald Ray-Gun. The activists of the 60's and 70's are getting on in years and again the demographics will change when they are gone. I wonder what sort of world my children or their children will see? All I can say is Im glad I wont be in it....

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 01:54 PM

Until he goes through with the American Gothic movie and putting the whole series on DVD, I've no use for him. Spider Man sucked. :laugh:

But Xena rocks! ;)

Brwn_eyes0511

02-12-2005, 01:58 PM

Season 3's the best. :P Don't hate on Faith, yo.

He killed her off because Emma didn't want to have anything to do with the show after the final episode. IIRC, she wanted to focus more on film (she has an indie flick called Bandwagon, but it's only been shown at festivals, to my knowledge) and wanted to leave Buffy in the dust.

I don't think that's a very good reason, though, but Season 6 & 7 don't exist as far as I'm concerned, so I can live in my "Anya's Still Alive & The Show's Still Awesome" Happyland. :P

Season 3 was pretty good, but not my fav. I don't understand why so many people hate on Season 4 though :shrug:

I remember reading that she didn't want to be a part of Buffy anymore, but one thing she pleaded with Joss not to do was kill Anya off, she wanted at least the choice to come back for something Buffy related in the future! But he did it anyways!

Season 6 and 7 had their moments, I did enjoy alot of Season 6 especially "Once More with Feeling" and "Life Serial".

GateandGarden

02-12-2005, 03:52 PM

I still maintain it's all about how you were raised and where you were raised as well as what your situation in life is. Like i've always said, people don't vote with other people in mind....they vote for themselves. Tell me...those that went on in their adult lives to become democrats....were your parents primarily democratic in their views as well? Just curious.I think it is only true for some that they inherit their parents' political views. I have one really liberal parent and one very conservative one. I had to make up my own mind, understandably. I don't completely agree with either one of them, really. Also, some of my closest friends grew up in households with both parents being very conservative and they wound up being anywhere from relatively liberal to extremely liberal.

Also, I like to think that I vote not only for myself but many, many others as well. As for how one votes being about one's life situation...I'm sure my homosexuality contributes to my fervor a lot. No doubt about that. But I feel pretty certain that I would've been liberal anyway, as I have always had sympathy for minorities, and even before I began to feel that way, I was strongly opposed to capital punishment at a young age, and that pretty much set the stage for me being a liberal from then on. And taking that particular stand certainly was no one's decision but my own.

WildInTheWind

02-12-2005, 04:13 PM

I think it is only true for some that they inherit their parents' political views. I have one really liberal parent and one very conservative one. I had to make up my own mind, understandably. I don't completely agree with either one of them, really. Also, some of my closest friends grew up in households with both parents being very conservative and they wound up being anywhere from relatively liberal to extremely liberal.

.

I come from a long line of liberals. Me and my 5 brothers and sisters are all very liberal.

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 04:53 PM

how is a ban on animal testing for cosmetics not being a friend to animals?

and: comparing hunting to the business of raising stock animals for feed is a bit lopsided, sort of like comparing buying a christmas tree off the lot to going out into the mountains and cutting one down......on the one hand, you have a business that raises feed animals, on the other you have people who cant stay away from guns going out into the wilderness (or sometimes to artificial hunts where the animals are penned and shot as they stand there in a herd)
and killing the animals where they live...its disgusting to me. A gun only has ONE purpose, to KILL. I HATE GUNS. The minute it has a bullet in it, it is death on demand.

I think you need to go to a slaughterhouse and see them kill the animals in front of the other animals. When you see the blood and smell the smell of the hundreds slaughtered in a day you will realize there essentially is no difference between that method of killing and hunting them even the hunting of them in the controlled enviroment you mentioned. In all ways, they are being killed either way and hunting them can be more humane compared to say sticking a hog and letting it bleed to death (which takes awhile) , letting cattle stand in water with an electric current, or any of the other various ways . But, based on your obvious issues with guns and your assumption that people hunt solely for the thrill of it - you will never see it that way no matter how true it is because apprarently you think all guns are evil and people could never possibly want the choice not to eat steroid filled meat, make their own leather with natural dyes, etc., and you want to put your head in the sand when it comes to buying steroid filled prettily packaged meat for sale in the store. Interestingly, you do not mind when these slaughterhouse methods are used to make the food you eat, which I can assure you happens if you eat beef or for that matter if you wear leather, etc. - which granted you may not - but many do.

AND - the Christmas tree analogy is false unless you think trees feel pain when cut down and they also are not immune to their horrible farm raised experience :shrug:

Interestingly, a somewhat valid argument could be made that it actually is a little fairer and more humane to kill them by hunting them - at least that way they have a relatively free and steroid free existence. AND - if people had to hunt what they ate, I can assure you there would be a whole lot less waste - thus less animals killed :shrug:

In any event - you will never admit that so what is the point?

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 04:55 PM

how is a ban on animal testing for cosmetics not being a friend to animals . . .

My point was, with sarcasm, that Clinton did not set it as a high priority if he set it at all. If he did, I never heard it - but he may have and I just do not know about it - though I do know the other high priority points he set :shrug:

amber

02-12-2005, 05:01 PM

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 05:04 PM

I, personally, think it would be better if all people hunted for their own meat. Not that that would ever happen, but i just think it is more humane and right. :shrug: It is better, IMO, to be less removed from the killing and source of your meat, so that you really know what it is you are doing/killing, and why. I didn't express that very well, but hopefully you know what i mean. I think it is more soulfully aware of how the circle of life works to do so. (does that make sense?)

It makes total sense - I cannot tell you how many people do not realize that the meat they are eating was a live animal and that animal probably was put through a horrible existence (see YUM) before it was slaughtered and put in a pretty package that some marketing fool did a test study to make the public want to but it.

amber

02-12-2005, 05:08 PM

It makes total sense - I cannot tell you how many people do not realize that the meat they are eating was a live animal and that animal probably was put through a horrible existence (see YUM) before it was slaughtered and put in a pretty package that some marketing fool did a test study to make the public want to but it.
totally. I mean, I think a lot of people have guns who shouldn't have them, and whatever, but the people who use them to hunt for their meat are definitely not in that category. Although, the guy I saw on TV who hunted animals and mounted all of them repulses me. I think someone awhile back said "what is the difference if you kill them to eat or kill them to mount them?" Which I thought was absurd, because if you kill them to eat, it's because you need food, which is totally understandable, but no one needs to kill something so that they can have wall decoration. :shrug:

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 05:24 PM

totally. I mean, I think a lot of people have guns who shouldn't have them, and whatever, but the people who use them to hunt for their meat are definitely not in that category. Although, the guy I saw on TV who hunted animals and mounted all of them repulses me. I think someone awhile back said "what is the difference if you kill them to eat or kill them to mount them?" Which I thought was absurd, because if you kill them to eat, it's because you need food, which is totally understandable, but no one needs to kill something so that they can have wall decoration. :shrug:

Gun ownership is WAY to easy. I think you ought to have to go to school to get a permit and then you ought to have to go to some facility every six months and present the gun and do another balistics test. And - yes, you should kill only what you eat. Anything else is wasteful and if you are Christian - a sin.

Serrart

02-12-2005, 06:47 PM

I also was surprised for Joan Allen, but It couldn't be since she can act :D . Clint Eastwood, I can forgive him because he's probably the best living American director with Altman and Scorsese. I'm a bit bummed to find on the list Kelsey Grammer, Dennis Franz, Dennis Hopper :confused: , James Earl Jones, Denzel Washington and John Malkovitch but I think I'll survive.

I wonder if Mel Gibson had done "The Passion " casting asking also the political views of the actors... It would explain a lot of things.

Romy

amber

02-12-2005, 06:59 PM

I also was surprised for Joan Allen

Romy
Joan Allen was a mistake, she is liberal.

Serrart

02-12-2005, 07:03 PM

Joan Allen was a mistake, she is liberal.

I've read, it was reassuring. :cool: She played a wonderful Pat Nixon though.

Romy

amber

02-12-2005, 07:16 PM

I've read, it was reassuring. :cool: She played a wonderful Pat Nixon though.

Romy
oh, sorry, i thought you didn't know. :wavey: Very reassuring, I think she is an amazing actress.

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 08:01 PM

I think you need to go to a slaughterhouse and see them kill the animals in front of the other animals. When you see the blood and smell the smell of the hundreds slaughtered in a day you will realize there essentially is no difference between that method of killing and hunting them even the hunting of them in the controlled enviroment you mentioned. In all ways, they are being killed either way and hunting them can be more humane compared to say sticking a hog and letting it bleed to death (which takes awhile) , letting cattle stand in water with an electric current, or any of the other various ways . But, based on your obvious issues with guns and your assumption that people hunt solely for the thrill of it - you will never see it that way no matter how true it is because apprarently you think all guns are evil and people could never possibly want the choice not to eat steroid filled meat, make their own leather with natural dyes, etc., and you want to put your head in the sand when it comes to buying steroid filled prettily packaged meat for sale in the store. Interestingly, you do not mind when these slaughterhouse methods are used to make the food you eat, which I can assure you happens if you eat beef or for that matter if you wear leather, etc. - which granted you may not - but many do.

AND - the Christmas tree analogy is false unless you think trees feel pain when cut down and they also are not immune to their horrible farm raised experience :shrug:

Interestingly, a somewhat valid argument could be made that it actually is a little fairer and more humane to kill them by hunting them - at least that way they have a relatively free and steroid free existence. AND - if people had to hunt what they ate, I can assure you there would be a whole lot less waste - thus less animals killed :shrug:

In any event - you will never admit that so what is the point?

Jason, I DEFY you to find any support for slaughterhouses in my posts. I am not a fan of their methods at ALL! But I am a meat eater and I cant think of any way that is humane and at the same time serves the need for mass meat consumption. You must see, tho, that those animals are raised for just that purpose the same way tree farms provide us with xmas trees. But, you missed the REAL point of my comparisons between tree farms and harvesting trees in the wild and stockyards and hunting a wild animal. both result in the death of the organism, its just the manner in which death comes to them that I was comparing and btw they are EXACTLY analogous. Mass production vs. solitary hunter/gatherer. EXACTLY the same. You deliberately sidestepped my point in order to get on your bully pulpit about slaughterhouses. I would much prefer people get their xmas trees from tree farms as opposed to all cutting a likely looking speciman up the mountain...same thing with meat. FYI, I DO think Trees feel pain when they die. I think ALL living organisms feel pain as they die.

My REAL issue is with guns, and their ONLY PURPOSE IS DEATH. Once you load a bullet in a gun it is a killing machine. Whether the death is accidental or deliberate is not the point, neither is the purpose for which you kill. If you choose to target practice instead of kill, you are merely honing your killing skills for later. Eventually, DEATH is the aim of a loaded gun. THAT is what I take issue with.

on a final note, I take less issue with hunters who eat what they hunt as opposed to a gaggle of good old boys out drinking and joking and firing off their penis substitutes......We dont need to hunt to eat. FACT. our food is already neatly packaged (whether you condone how it got there or not Jason, the fact remains that this meat obviates the need for going out in the wild and killing MORE animals) Possibly a solution would be to eat Kosher meat? they have different guidelines regarding the killing of an animal, and tho I dont know what they are, maybe they are more humane?

ShangriLaTroubl

02-12-2005, 08:19 PM

ShangriLaTroubl

02-12-2005, 08:21 PM

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but the list has Kevin Costner as a Democrat---I would say that is false considering his political donations :

KERRY, JOHN F (D)
President
JOHN KERRY FOR PRESIDENT INC $2,000
primary

CLOONEY, NICK (D)
House (KY 04)
CLOONEY FOR CONGRESS
$2,000
primary

GORE, AL (D)
President
GORE/LIEBERMAN GENERAL ELECTION LEGAL AND ACCOUNTING COMPLIANCE FUND $1,000
general

GORE, AL (D)
President
GORE 2000 INC $1,000
primary

GORE, AL (D)
President
GORE 2000 INC $1,000
primary

DASCHLE, THOMAS ANDREW (D)
Senate - SD
A LOT OF PEOPLE SUPPORTING TOM DASCHLE INC $1,000
general

DASCHLE, THOMAS ANDREW (D)
Senate - SD
A LOT OF PEOPLE SUPPORTING TOM DASCHLE INC $1,000
primary

DNC SERVICES CORPORATION/DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE (D) $5,000
primary 06/14/96

GORDON, BARRY (D)
House (CA 27)
BARRY GORDON FOR CONGRESS $500
primary 12/22/95

ShangriLaTroubl

02-12-2005, 08:23 PM

gldstwmn

02-12-2005, 08:51 PM

No! Not Adam Sandler,

He sucks anyway. Spanglish? WTF was that vomit inducing tearjerker supposed to be about? Someone needs to tell him he's not Fellini.

gldstwmn

02-12-2005, 08:58 PM

Trust me, I don't live my life for celebrities, they do more to hurt elections than anything else.

Then why start a thread about Republican celebrities? :confused:

gldstwmn

02-12-2005, 09:01 PM

Who exactly is we, because middle America, I promise you, will out number left-wingers by a long shot!

The people who live in the least populated states will be outnumbered by those in the most populated states? :confused:

gldstwmn

02-12-2005, 09:03 PM

I know that the earth is not my real home, I'm just passing through.

So just trash the place and leave the mess for those that come after you. Now that is a true Neocon.

gldstwmn

02-12-2005, 09:06 PM

ahhh the party that will never win an election...The Green party ;)

They've won plenty.
http://www.feinstein.org/greenparty/electeds.html

Green Party members holding elected office in the United States:

At least 220 Greens in 27 states and the District of Columbia hold elected office as of January 2005.

gldstwmn

02-12-2005, 09:07 PM

integrity, :rolleyes:

still, will never win!

http://www.feinstein.org/greenparty/electeds.html

Green Party members holding elected office in the United States:

At least 220 Greens in 27 states and the District of Columbia hold elected office as of January 2005.

gldstwmn

02-12-2005, 09:16 PM

They're gasping their last breath, and they're panicking.

The writing's on the wall. :nod:

Especially now with Dean being the chairman of the DNC and Condi Rice probably having perjured herself before the 9/11 commission and Valerie Plame's name being connected to a reporter with a White House press corps pass who didn't use his real name and was working for a GOP owned news outlet called Talon News Service out of TEXAS.
My yes, things are looking up. :nod:

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 09:19 PM

Well you can definetely kill a deer, eat the meat, and then mount it...I see nothing wrong with that personally--plus I love deer meat. Although I do not hunt much, I enjoy it from time to time

Chris

My brother does this. he also eschews gun hunting in favor of bow hunting which he believes gives the animal more of a fighting chance. If he comes home with nothing thats ok too. He's got a freezer full of deer meat that lasts him and my mom quite some time. He is NOT a "sport" hunter. and he wastes nothing. He respects nature and doesnt trash it when he is out there. I have way more respect for hunters of this type than the weekend warriors who get all pumped up about bagging a trophy...

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 09:24 PM

If I didnt misunderstand him, I think his point was that ALL hunting was bad, whether for food or for trophy. Because our groceries are jam packed with things to eat, we dont need to HUNT to survive.

For those who deplore the treatment of animals in slaughterhouses, one alternative might be converting to vegetarianism (or its many variants)

I also know a family in my old neighborhood that raises its own stock (cattle and sheep) and grows its own vegetables. They have fruit trees and chickens as well. They are good down to earth people who came here from Russia and brought a saner way of life with them. They can their produce for winter and bake their own bread daily! I love going to their home because of the wonderful smells....when the animals are butchered, they also save the skins (their garage has many sheepskins, maybe future rugs?) The point is, the food chain is natural and organisms futher up the chain eat those from lower down whether it be plant or animal material. Thats just nature's way.
Even so, I'd prefer my meat to come from animals that were bred and raised for that purpose, rather than from the wild. same thing with xmas trees, tho I bought a fake tree and refuse to buy a cut one.

dissention

02-12-2005, 09:36 PM

Although I do not hunt much, I enjoy it from time to time

This is not an attack at all, but can you tell me what is enjoyable about killing an animal, Chris?

dissention

02-12-2005, 09:43 PM

I think someone awhile back said "what is the difference if you kill them to eat or kill them to mount them?" Which I thought was absurd, because if you kill them to eat, it's because you need food, which is totally understandable, but no one needs to kill something so that they can have wall decoration. :shrug:

No one needs to kill another beautiful creature when there is plenty of food out there for them to eat already. Why kill one more animal than needs to be killed? They surely aren't going to starve. I don't know how anyone can muster up the strength within themselves to take the life of another creature and watch as life escapes them, but that's just me. More power to those who can because it's not illegal, unfortunately.

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 09:43 PM

Then why start a thread about Republican celebrities? :confused:

did you say "Thank you God" when you wrote that? Can you spell ZINGER boys and girls? Give the girlie a prize!

amber

02-12-2005, 09:46 PM

This is not an attack at all, but can you tell me what is enjoyable about killing an animal, Chris?
My name isn't Chris today, but i would imagine whatever skill is necessary to stalk and sneak up on and track the animal, and probably the fun of "hitting the target through shooting skill". I've never been hunting, but I would enjoy all those things if you didn't kill anything at the end. :laugh: It would probably even be more fun and more difficult if you used a bow. I could really only imagine myself hunting if I needed food. :shrug: Deermeat is good.

dissention

02-12-2005, 09:47 PM

we dont need to HUNT to survive.

Exactly. We aren't cavemen. If you must eat meat, go buy an animal that's already been killed instead of killing another one.

amber

02-12-2005, 09:48 PM

amber

02-12-2005, 09:49 PM

Exactly. We aren't cavemen. If you must eat meat, go buy an animal that's already been killed instead of killing another one.
But either way one has died. At least if you hunt it it was "free range" before that. I'd rather not support the cattle industry and the way it runs, personally.

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 09:49 PM

Exactly. We aren't cavemen. If you must eat meat, go buy an animal that's already been killed instead of killing another one.
I was able to state your position accurately
:nod: whew!

dissention

02-12-2005, 09:50 PM

well, I wouldn't want to kill an animal, especially, either, and no, most people aren't going to starve. But if they are going to eat meat, I think it's fine to hunt it rather than buy it in the store. :shrug:

So, instead of say five animals dying, make it an even six. Kill more than need to be killed. :thumbsup:

dissention

02-12-2005, 09:51 PM

I was able to state your position accurately
:nod: whew!

Most definitely, dear. :D

ontheEdgeof17

02-12-2005, 09:52 PM

So, instead of say five animals dying, make it an even six. Kill more than need to be killed. :thumbsup:

We are overpopulated with deer anyway. Why not kill one and eat it before it runs out in front of a car and puts humans in danger?

dissention

02-12-2005, 09:53 PM

But either way one has died.

Yes, but one is better than two, obviously.

GateandGarden

02-12-2005, 09:53 PM

I've never been hunting, but I would enjoy all those things if you didn't kill anything at the end. :laugh: :laugh: :lol: Same here! It all sounds kind of exciting until you get to the killing part! I suppose I'd rather play DOOM or something. :laugh:

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 09:54 PM

But either way one has died. At least if you hunt it it was "free range" before that. I'd rather not support the cattle industry and the way it runs, personally.

Amber, there is a difference between eating a domesticated animal whose sole purpose is as a food item and eating a wild animal whose purpose is to be part of the natural foodchain in its own ecosystem. Man eating those animals shortchanges another part of THAT foodchain and its essentially unnecessary because we already have plenty of choices in our stores! If you dont condone the way the cattle industry is run (and I cant say I blame you) then you can switch to lamb or chicken or no meat at all! but all of our food in stores is mass produced which means if you look beneath the surface for any of those industries, I am sure you would find something to take issue with. I prefer to shop at a grocery store and leave the WILD animals alone. They have enough to contend with in the wild, what with survival of the fittest and all.....
:nod:

amber

02-12-2005, 09:54 PM

So, instead of say five animals dying, make it an even six. Kill more than need to be killed. :thumbsup:
You've still only killed the same amount for yourself. If you shoot your own meat, you then didn't buy some other killed meat. It's the same. And I think it's more humane to hunt for it yourself, than to buy it from a meat factory.

dissention

02-12-2005, 09:55 PM

We are overpopulated with deer anyway. Why not kill one and eat it before it runs out in front of a car and puts humans in danger?

Because I don't think it's right. You don't have to agree with me and you can eat as much deer meat as you want, but I just don't think it's right.

ontheEdgeof17

02-12-2005, 09:57 PM

Because I don't think it's right. You don't have to agree with me and you can eat as much deer meat as you want, but I just don't think it's right.

I love love love deer meat. YUM.

You try living in the middle of nowhere in the dead of winter. We couldn't make it to the store for weeks on end (no lie). We had to hunt. :nod:

GateandGarden

02-12-2005, 09:57 PM

But this is what kills me. There are places in Texas (and probably other states as well) at which they import exotic animals from other continents, and people pay thousands of dollars to drive up in a jeep and shoot them to hang them up on their walls. The animals are defenseless because they're in another habitat entirely, and there's really no "hunting," since they put them in an isolated area and drive right up and shoot them. I know people who have done this. (I hate to admit it). One hunt (some exotic elk-esque creature) was $5000. Then they paid however much it costs to get it stuffed and put it on wheels. :eek: :distress:

dissention

02-12-2005, 09:58 PM

You've still only killed the same amount for yourself. If you shoot your own meat, you then didn't buy some other killed meat. It's the same. And I think it's more humane to hunt for it yourself, than to buy it from a meat factory.

I didn't know that shooting something to death with bullets or arrows could ever be considered humane. :shrug:

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 10:00 PM

We are overpopulated with deer anyway. Why not kill one and eat it before it runs out in front of a car and puts humans in danger?
is this sarcastic or your real feelings?
because if it is your real position, then I would have to remind you that the increase in the deer population is directly the result of doing away with its natural predator. Whenever you mess with the balance of predator/prey, there are problems. Early settlers were overrun with prairie dogs because they killed to near extinction the coyotes, who were viewed as vermin. Each of these animals has a place in the chain, and fiddling with the numbers of one will have consequences in the other....

ontheEdgeof17

02-12-2005, 10:00 PM

I didn't know that shooting something to death with bullets or arrows could ever be considered humane. :shrug:

But putting down cattle for meat is okay? And it's not dozens of shots. It's one. You make it sound that hunters shoot shoot shoot.

gldstwmn

02-12-2005, 10:00 PM

did you say "Thank you God" when you wrote that? Can you spell ZINGER boys and girls? Give the girlie a prize!

Humbly at your service madame. That was 20 minutes of pure, clean fun. :laugh:
Just finished yoga and I'm feelin' sharp as a tack. ;) :wavey:

amber

02-12-2005, 10:04 PM

Amber, there is a difference between eating a domesticated animal whose sole purpose is as a food item and eating a wild animal whose purpose is to be part of the natural foodchain in its own ecosystem. Man eating those animals shortchanges another part of THAT foodchain and its essentially unnecessary because we already have plenty of choices in our stores! If you dont condone the way the cattle industry is run (and I cant say I blame you) then you can switch to lamb or chicken or no meat at all! but all of our food in stores is mass produced which means if you look beneath the surface for any of those industries, I am sure you would find something to take issue with. I prefer to shop at a grocery store and leave the WILD animals alone. They have enough to contend with in the wild, what with survival of the fittest and all.....
:nod:
Man raising meat in food farms is an inefficient and detrimental way to grow food. Beef farms are terribly taxing on our resources. And before Europeans brought them over, the kind of meat that humans ate was part of an ecosystem that included humans. In theory, we are not shortchanging any ecosystem by eating a deer, we are a part of the ecosystem. However, cattle farms have been more detrimental to ecosystems than humans eating "wild animals" ever would be. It's called the food chain, instead of the "human constructed mass food farm". And classicly, people who hunted for their food did so in a way where no one species was depleted, by varying their food sources. They would have deer certain seasons, largely fish in other seasons, bison if that was in their area, and much small game (squirrels, rabbits, birds, etc) in other seasons. Very occasionally wolf or big cats, or perhaps a bear. But the meat from the bigger game would obviously last longer. (And also they would eat non meat sources that were plentiful in whatever their environment was.) I think there are many things about what people always ate, and how ecosystems affect each other, and why, that you guys may be unaware of. :shrug: No offense, but I think you guys are missing something important.

ontheEdgeof17

02-12-2005, 10:04 PM

is this sarcastic or your real feelings?
because if it is your real position, then I would have to remind you that the increase in the deer population is directly the result of doing away with its natural predator. Whenever you mess with the balance of predator/prey, there are problems. Early settlers were overrun with prairie dogs because they killed to near extinction the coyotes, who were viewed as vermin. Each of these animals has a place in the chain, and fiddling with the numbers of one will have consequences in the other....

Yup. I'm serious. You guys must not live in a countryside. There is no animal that gets their source of food from deer here. We have no bears or wolves or anything of that nature. We are not killing exotic animals for fur. We are eating the meat, and there are limits to how many you can kill in a season.

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 10:05 PM

I didn't know that shooting something to death with bullets or arrows could ever be considered humane. :shrug:

I want to say that I believe bow hunting increases the odds for the animal, there is a greater liklihood of the animal getting away from bow hunting than from gun hunting. Bow hunting requires strength and keen eyesight and patience on the part of the hunter....Gun hunting is weighted much heavier in favor of the hunter, what with scopes, and high power weapons....and the result is instantaneous...

I do think there is some justification for calling bow hunting more humane based on that. Of course, as you said, the end result is still the same, but at least the animal had more of a chance with a bow hunter than with a gun hunter...

amber

02-12-2005, 10:06 PM

is this sarcastic or your real feelings?
because if it is your real position, then I would have to remind you that the increase in the deer population is directly the result of doing away with its natural predator. Whenever you mess with the balance of predator/prey, there are problems. Early settlers were overrun with prairie dogs because they killed to near extinction the coyotes, who were viewed as vermin. Each of these animals has a place in the chain, and fiddling with the numbers of one will have consequences in the other....
But irregardless of the depletion of deer's natural predator, there still is an overrun of deer in certain places. We have already messed with the predator prey balance, but that does not mean we don't have too many deer in some places which causes it's own problems. And again, humans are classicly part of that food chain, it's the large meat farms which throw this out of balance. :wavey:

amber

02-12-2005, 10:08 PM

Yes, but one is better than two, obviously.
If, say, a thousand people less per month bought meat at the store, then the meat places would lessen their distribution because no one is buying it. But if I thousand more people bought it, then they would have to output a thousand more units of dead animal. That's how it's the same. If you don't buy it, in theory, maybe they wouldn't kill it.

ontheEdgeof17

02-12-2005, 10:08 PM

If you think hunting is so bad, tour a slaughter house. :cool:

amber

02-12-2005, 10:09 PM

Because I don't think it's right. You don't have to agree with me and you can eat as much deer meat as you want, but I just don't think it's right.
If you are talking about the pure rightness of killing an animal or not, I don't think it's any more right to kill it on a farm and package it for a store than it is to kill it yourself. And I do think it's less humane.

amber

02-12-2005, 10:11 PM

:laugh: :lol: Same here! It all sounds kind of exciting until you get to the killing part! I suppose I'd rather play DOOM or something. :laugh:

Me, too, I loooooove AREA 51 :laugh: :laugh:

dissention

02-12-2005, 10:11 PM

But putting down cattle for meat is okay?

Did I ever say such a thing? I think not, dear.

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 10:11 PM

You try living in the middle of nowhere in the dead of winter. We couldn't make it to the store for weeks on end (no lie). We had to hunt. :nod:

I think it's difficult for someone who's always lived in urban areas to understand the day-to-day life of people in rural areas.

I'm in a small town, but (as you know, Curtis) we're surrounded by rural areas around here... so there's no escaping some of the facts of life.
And one of the facts of life around here, is that many people need to hunt for their food, because of the remoteness of the area in which they live.

I abhor hunting for sport, but I have no qualms with hunting for food. I eat meat... for me to have issues with hunting for food would be hypocritical, IMO.

I love love love deer meat.
I don't. It has an after-taste that I just can't get on board with.
My parents eat it and love it though... as does most of my family.

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 10:13 PM

Man raising meat in food farms is an inefficient and detrimental way to grow food. Beef farms are terribly taxing on our resources. And before Europeans brought them over, the kind of meat that humans ate was part of an ecosystem that included humans. In theory, we are not shortchanging any ecosystem by eating a deer, we are a part of the ecosystem. However, cattle farms have been more detrimental to ecosystems than humans eating "wild animals" ever would be. It's called the food chain, instead of the "human constructed mass food farm". And classicly, people who hunted for their food did so in a way where no one species was depleted, by varying their food sources. They would have deer certain seasons, largely fish in other seasons, bison if that was in their area, and much small game (squirrels, rabbits, birds, etc) in other seasons. Very occasionally wolf or big cats, or perhaps a bear. But the meat from the bigger game would obviously last longer. (And also they would eat non meat sources that were plentiful in whatever their environment was.) I think there are many things about what people always ate, and how ecosystems affect each other, and why, that you guys may be unaware of. :shrug: No offense, but I think you guys are missing something important.

The flaw with your argument is........drum roll........the population being served. When the continent was peopled with Natives that only hunted what they needed the animals far outnumbered the natives. The White man came in WITH HIS GUNS and posed proudly for pictures of piled up carcasses of bison which effectively starved the local natives! We, with our medicine, and our hygiene, and our education will never have the shorter lifespans, and thus more sustainable populations. No offense, but I think YOU are missing something here. The days of the natural food cycle will never be seen again. We've fiddled with the odds to come out on top and now, to feed ourselves, we must raise ungodly numbers of stock for slaughter.

ontheEdgeof17

02-12-2005, 10:13 PM

Did I ever say such a thing? I think not, dear.

An animal is dying in both.....either by a bullet or a tranq.

dissention

02-12-2005, 10:14 PM

If you think hunting is so bad, tour a slaughter house. :cool:

I don't need to, I've seen enough at PETA chapter meetings. Where you got the impression that I seem to approve of slaughterhouses as opposed to hunting is a mystery to me.

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 10:17 PM

But irregardless of the depletion of deer's natural predator, there still is an overrun of deer in certain places. We have already messed with the predator prey balance, but that does not mean we don't have too many deer in some places which causes it's own problems. And again, humans are classicly part of that food chain, it's the large meat farms which throw this out of balance. :wavey:

helloooooo, you cant disregard the lack of natural predator! Thats WHY there are too many deer in some places! We will never learn if we dont admit our mistakes!

as for the "classic food chain" our population has thrown that whole process out of whack and necessitated the formation of meat farms....the meat farms didnt come first :shrug:

dissention

02-12-2005, 10:17 PM

An animal is dying in both.....either by a bullet or a tranq.

And where did I say I approve of either? :shrug: All I said was that if there is meat in the store for you to buy and you can buy it, do it, don't kill another animal.

amber

02-12-2005, 10:20 PM

The flaw with your argument is........drum roll........the population being served. When the continent was peopled with Natives that only hunted what they needed the animals far outnumbered the natives. The White man came in WITH HIS GUNS and posed proudly for pictures of piled up carcasses of bison which effectively starved the local natives! We, with our medicine, and our hygiene, and our education will never have the shorter lifespans, and thus more sustainable populations. I think YOU are missing something here. The days of the natural food cycle will never be seen again. We've fiddled with the odds to come out on top and now, to feed ourselves, we must raise ungodly numbers of stock for slaughter.
Just because we've ruined the natural food cycle, still doesn't make hunting worse than buying your meat in a store. Unless you're hunting to make endangered species kabobs, which most people aren't. Most people who hunt for food hunt deer and birds and fish, and possibly rabbits. And for the most part, those things aren't endangered. In fact, many people hunt during "deer season." Obviously, I don't agree with hunting for sport, and hunting big cats and wolves, etc, that are endangered. But that just isn't what most people hunt for food.

amber

02-12-2005, 10:22 PM

And where did I say I approve of either? :shrug: All I said was that if there is meat in the store for you to buy and you can buy it, do it, don't kill another animal.
That seems not only hypocritical to me, but I still submit you are killing, or causing to be killed, the same amount of animals either way. :wavey:
It's okay, though, obviously we will never agree. :xoxo:

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 10:26 PM

And where did I say I approve of either? :shrug: All I said was that if there is meat in the store for you to buy and you can buy it, do it, don't kill another animal.

Not meaning to speak for Curtis here, but I do believe he was commenting directly to this statement of yours:
No one needs to kill another beautiful creature when there is plenty of food out there for them to eat already. Why kill one more animal than needs to be killed?
Which is a fair enough opinion for those who live in urban areas, but Curtis was pointing out that many of us in this country live in rural areas, and in these rural areas many people need to hunt for their food. They don't have the luxury of driving to the Try 'N Save and buying it at the meat counter.

While "no one" in your area may need to ever hunt for food, many people in other areas do. :)

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 10:27 PM

Just because we've ruined the natural food cycle, still doesn't make hunting worse than buying your meat in a store. Unless you're hunting to make endangered species kabobs, which most people aren't. Most people who hunt for food hunt deer and birds and fish, and possibly rabbits. And for the most part, those things aren't endangered. In fact, many people hunt during "deer season." Obviously, I don't agree with hunting for sport, and hunting big cats and wolves, etc, that are endangered. But that just isn't what most people hunt for food.

Hunting is UNNECESSARY because we can buy our food in a store. Deep down, whether people want to admit it or not, I think hunting is basically a competitive activity, the hunter pits his "skill" against the wild animal's instincts. My problem with hunting is that it artificially weights the odds against the animal. Also, as I have stated, the need is just not there because each and every one of us is able to get to a store. In Curtis' case, maybe not in winter, in which case, I dont think anyone begrudges him deer meet in the dead of winter, except possibly the mountain lion in his neck of the woods. I just feel that its a waste to talk about modern man in terms of the "classic food chain" because our technology has allowed our population to explode to the point that the natural food chain couldnt help us anyway! We actually NEED those damn slaughterhouses unfortunately :shrug:

amber

02-12-2005, 10:28 PM

helloooooo, you cant disregard the lack of natural predator! Thats WHY there are too many deer in some places! We will never learn if we dont admit our mistakes!

as for the "classic food chain" our population has thrown that whole process out of whack and necessitated the formation of meat farms....the meat farms didnt come first :shrug:
Hello, what are you talking about? I didn't say there weren't natural predators; unfortunately we have hunted them to near extinction. But letting there be too many deer won't make there be more mountain lions, magically. And until we restore the predators, we still have to control the deer populations so they don't wreak havoc on the balance of the rest of the ecosystem still in place. And, um, do you think people didn't eat meat before there were meat farms? The Europeans absolutely brought their domesticated animals here, which later led to meat farms, to the detriment of the ecosystems that were already in place here. And yes, I still realize there is "no going back" now.

dissention

02-12-2005, 10:28 PM

That seems not only hypocritical to me, but I still submit you are killing, or causing to be killed, the same amount of animals either way. :wavey:
It's okay, though, obviously we will never agree. :xoxo:

Call it what you want and I'll probably disagree. We just have different viewpoints when it comes to this issue. :)

I simply can't fathom ending another creatures life, whether it be in a slaughterhouse or hunting it. It doesn't make me feel good, especially when I think of the pain the animals must go through and what must go through their minds as they die. I don't think it's my job to take their lives away. I'm sure I come across as silly and a bit of a loon, but oh well. :laugh:

amber

02-12-2005, 10:31 PM

Hunting is UNNECESSARY because we can buy our food in a store. Deep down, whether people want to admit it or not, I think hunting is basically a competitive activity, the hunter pits his "skill" against the wild animal's instincts. My problem with hunting is that it artificially weights the odds against the animal. Also, as I have stated, the need is just not there because each and every one of us is able to get to a store. In Curtis' case, maybe not in winter, in which case, I dont think anyone begrudges him deer meet in the dead of winter, except possibly the mountain lion in his neck of the woods. I just feel that its a waste to talk about modern man in terms of the "classic food chain" because our technology has allowed our population to explode to the point that the natural food chain couldnt help us anyway! We actually NEED those damn slaughterhouses unfortunately :shrug:
I don't think buying a killed animal in the store is any worse than hunting for your meat, it is as simple as that. I think either one takes away an equal amount of an animal life, ie, 1=1. And I don't think deer hunting generally takes away from the mountain lion quota. Because of overhunting of mountain lions, the mountain lion to deer ratio is very much in favor of the lion. Whatev., we will never agree, I suppose. :shrug:

dissention

02-12-2005, 10:32 PM

Which is a fair enough opinion for those who live in urban areas, but Curtis was pointing out that many of us in this country live in rural areas, and in these rural areas many people need to hunt for their food. They don't have the luxury of driving to the Try 'N Save and buying it at the meat counter.

While "no one" in your area may need to ever hunt for food, many people in other areas do. :)

I'm not going to discount the people who must hunt for food, but the percentage of people in this country who must do it is pretty miniscule. You make it sound as if those in areas other than urban ones are forced to hunt to survive. While that is true for some, it isn't that many.

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 10:34 PM

That seems not only hypocritical to me, but I still submit you are killing, or causing to be killed, the same amount of animals either way. :wavey:
It's okay, though, obviously we will never agree. :xoxo:

It can be looked at this way... if one were to rely solely on hunting for their food, they would be bipassing the meat killed at slaughterhouses. Therefore cutting down on the amount of packaged meat sold, and, in turn, lessening the amount of animals the slaughterhouses killed.

But if one continues to buy packaged meat in a grocery store, then the slaughterhouses will continue to supply the meat to meet the demand.
You're not "saving" anything in the long run by going to the store for your meat. Animals are still being butchered for your dinner (and many of them in more inhumane ways than the animals killed by a rifle or a crossbow).

amber

02-12-2005, 10:36 PM

Call it what you want and I'll probably disagree. We just have different viewpoints when it comes to this issue. :)

I simply can't fathom ending another creatures life, whether it be in a slaughterhouse or hunting it. It doesn't make me feel good, especially when I think of the pain the animals must go through and what must go through their minds as they die. I don't think it's my job to take their lives away. I'm sure I come across as silly and a bit of a loon, but oh well. :laugh:
Well, I understand that perfectly. It's why people are vegetarians. :angel: And I think that's great, and very logical. My point was more directed towards "if people eat meat". And no, I don't think you sound like a loon, I abhor animal pain, and wouldn't want to kill one, either. (Unless I was starving, then i probably would. *shudder*) I have to say, though, it really causes me heartache to think of an animal spending it's whole life tightly packed into a cage, or a small space (I guess i'm thinking of chickens) never being able to move around, or just, be an animal. :(

amber

02-12-2005, 10:37 PM

It can be looked at this way... if one were to rely solely on hunting for their food, they would be bipassing the meat killed at slaughterhouses. Therefore cutting down on the amount of packaged meat sold, and, in turn, lessening the amount of animals the slaughterhouses killed.

But if one continues to buy packaged meat in a grocery store, then the slaughterhouses will continue to supply the meat to meet the demand.
You're not "saving" anything in the long run by going to the store for your meat. Animals are still being butchered for your dinner (and many of them in more inhumane ways than the animals killed by a rifle or a crossbow).
Exactly. (Didn't I say that a couple times? :laugh: ) Of course, when stew says it, it is worded better. :)

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 10:38 PM

Hello, what are you talking about? I didn't say there weren't natural predators; unfortunately we have hunted them to near extinction. But letting there be too many deer won't make there be more mountain lions, magically. And until we restore the predators, we still have to control the deer populations so they don't wreak havoc on the balance of the rest of the ecosystem still in place. And, um, do you think people didn't eat meat before there were meat farms? The Europeans absolutely brought their domesticated animals here, which later led to meat farms, to the detriment of the ecosystems that were already in place here. And yes, I still realize there is "no going back" now.

here's what I am talking about: when mountain lions are killed as vermin (many stock farmers kill them on sight, thinking they are a menace to their stock) the deer populations rise as a result. They then consume all of the forage in their own areas and wander to other areas and are perceived as a nuisance. People only see the immediate problem and dont look to the underlying one. I live in a mountain community with deer and mountain lions and occasionally a bear or two. The fact is, until people stop viewing predators as vermin, their plant eating prey are going to be a problem!

and this: And, um, do you think people didn't eat meat before there were meat farms? The Europeans absolutely brought their domesticated animals here, which later led to meat farms, to the detriment of the ecosystems that were already in place here
is not quite correct. Yes, Europeans brought their meat animals with them. But historically until the industrial revolution, people basically raised their own food, with home gardens and stock and fruit trees for each family. It was the centralization of our population in cities and the fading away of family farms that brought about the necessity of grocery stores and mass production and "meat farms" not the scenario you posited.

dissention

02-12-2005, 10:41 PM

Well, I understand that perfectly. It's why people are vegetarians. :angel: And I think that's great, and very logical. My point was more directed towards "if people eat meat". And no, I don't think you sound like a loon, I abhor animal pain, and wouldn't want to kill one, either. (Unless I was starving, then i probably would. *shudder*) I have to say, though, it really causes me heartache to think of an animal spending it's whole life tightly packed into a cage, or a small space (I guess i'm thinking of chickens) never being able to move around, or just, be an animal. :(

Animals are no longer creatures of nature, they're an industry. They're butalized and treated like pieces of trash; it breaks me heart. I can't even go into pet shops because I see those poor things locked in cages and I know there's nothing I can do about it. I can't very well buy them all and take them home. But the whole concept of being the one to end the life of an animal is just unbearable to me. I don't even kill spiders, ants, or flies if I find one inside, I catch them in cups and gently put them down outside. :laugh: I'm a baby to an extreme degree when it comes to these things.

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 10:43 PM

I'm not going to discount the people who must hunt for food, but the percentage of people in this country who must do it is pretty miniscule. You make it sound as if those in areas other than urban ones are forced to hunt to survive. While that is true for some, it isn't that many.

Well, only 10% of the population is gay, but we're still fighting for their rights. ;)

It might be a small number overall of people who NEED to hunt for their food, but there are still quite a number of people in this country for whom going to a grocery store to pick up dinner just is not an option.

And really, if you think about it, when you hunt for your own food, at least you KNOW how the animal was killed. When we buy meat brought in from slaughterhouses, we're often guilty of the gruesome mistreatment of animals by complicity.

amber

02-12-2005, 10:43 PM

here's what I am talking about: when mountain lions are killed as vermin (many stock farmers kill them on sight, thinking they are a menace to their stock) the deer populations rise as a result. They then consume all of the forage in their own areas and wander to other areas and are perceived as a nuisance. People only see the immediate problem and dont look to the underlying one. I live in a mountain community with deer and mountain lions and occasionally a bear or two. The fact is, until people stop viewing predators as vermin, their plant eating prey are going to be a problem!

and this:
is not quite correct. Yes, Europeans brought their meat animals with them. But historically until the industrial revolution, people basically raised their own food, with home gardens and stock and fruit trees for each family. It was the centralization of our population in cities and the fading away of family farms that brought about the necessity of grocery stores and mass production and "meat farms" not the scenario you posited.
I know that, about the big predators, and i'm not saying we shouldn't address the underlying problem, I'm saying that in the meantime, there are still too many deer. Of course we should restore the deer's natural predators, but that still doesn't make any less deer, in the meantime.
I know people raised their own food, but it was still foreign cattle and pigs, which in itself is a bad thing to raise here, and detrimental to the natural ecology. There's nothing we can do about it now, but it was still stupid, shortsighted, detrimental, and possibly unnecessary.

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 10:44 PM

I don't think buying a killed animal in the store is any worse than hunting for your meat, it is as simple as that. I think either one takes away an equal amount of an animal life, ie, 1=1. And I don't think deer hunting generally takes away from the mountain lion quota. Because of overhunting of mountain lions, the mountain lion to deer ratio is very much in favor of the lion. Whatev., we will never agree, I suppose. :shrug:

its not the number of animal lives that is at issue!! it is the purpose the animal's life SERVES! A domesticated food animal is MEANT to be eaten by man! A wild animal is meant to be eaten by OTHER ANIMALS! If man eats wild animals, that effectively reduces the available food source for the predators in that particular food chain! Why is that so hard to grasp?

also this statement:
Because of overhunting of mountain lions, the mountain lion to deer ratio is very much in favor of the lion
makes no sense. Overhunting of mountain lions can remove them completely from an area which is why the deer are able to overpopulate...eventually the lions might be able to come back in or repopulate an area but it takes time and in the meantime, the deer can graze an area to nothing and ruin it...

amber

02-12-2005, 10:46 PM

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 10:49 PM

I know that, about the big predators, and i'm not saying we shouldn't address the underlying problem, I'm saying that in the meantime, there are still too many deer. Of course we should restore the deer's natural predators, but that still doesn't make any less deer, in the meantime.
I know people raised their own food, but it was still foreign cattle and pigs, which in itself is a bad thing to raise here, and detrimental to the natural ecology. There's nothing we can do about it now, but it was still stupid, shortsighted, detrimental, and possibly unnecessary.

here's what I think would be a smarter solution, but I am not a biologist so I dont know if it is feasible: I think that areas that have too many dear should capture them and relocate them to a different area that can support them.

Eventually time (and nature) will take care of the problem, because once the deer have eaten all the available food, they starve. I'd hate to see that happen so I hope other solutions aside from hunting are utilized....

on another note, I agree that our current meat based diet IS very inefficient in terms of land use...it takes huge amounts of grain to feed those cattle, and the same amount of grain could feed a larger part of the population than the meat from the slaughtered cattle would....Im not saying I agree with the way things are done, but rather that we should leave the wild animals alone (with the sole exception being persons in Curtis' (or Johnny's!) neck of the woods who truly have no other alternative. Vegetarianism has a lot to recommend it. Or even just reducing the amount of meat we do eat...I myself lived on ramen soup for a month before I moved--I had all my stuff packed in huge boxes and I didnt want to go rummaging around and putting everything back...one of my favorite things to do is put cabbage or hot chilis or zucchini or some sort of veggie in ramen soup! (I love that stuff!) sick I know... :rolleyes:

ShangriLaTroubl

02-12-2005, 10:49 PM

This is not an attack at all, but can you tell me what is enjoyable about killing an animal, Chris?

Hard to explain...

There's many reasons I enjoy hunting...I enjoy it I suppose because it's a time when you can enjoy anothers' company...it's no different than target shooting, when it comes to enjoying and learning precision and a skill...The deer season here is used to keep down the overpopulation of deer, and I suppose it's natural to desire to have skills of "living off the land" if ever necessary. When hunting you get to experience the outdoors (and yes of course you could do this many other ways).

Everything we do has consequences. Whether you choose to eat vegetables or meat, store-bought food or homegrown, cattle or venison, you contribute to the death of animals so you can eat.

amber

02-12-2005, 10:52 PM

its not the number of animal lives that is at issue!! it is the purpose the animal's life SERVES! A domesticated food animal is MEANT to be eaten by man! A wild animal is meant to be eaten by OTHER ANIMALS! If man eats wild animals, that effectively reduces the available food source for the predators in that particular food chain! Why is that so hard to grasp?

also this statement:

makes no sense. Overhunting of mountain lions can remove them completely from an area which is why the deer are able to overpopulate...eventually the lions might be able to come back in or repopulate an area but it takes time and in the meantime, the deer can graze an area to nothing and ruin it...
But I disagree with the whole concept of those domesticated animals being raised only to be meat for us. And by saying wild animals are only meant to be eaten by other animals, you effectively, and erroneously, remove us from the food chain. Instead, you make us part of a false food chain that works against the natural ecosystem.
And you really don't understand my point of how I UNDERSTAND THAT OVERHUNTING OF MOUNTAIN LIONS RAISES THE DEER POPULATION, WHICH IS WRONG, BUT THAT STILL DOESN'T MAKE LESS DEER!!!! I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HUNT MOUNTAIN LIONS, I THINK WE SHOULD RESTORE THEM, BUT IN THE MEANTIME WE NEED TO CONTROL THE DEER POPULATION SO IT DOESN'T DECIMATE THE REST OF THE ECOSYSTEM.

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 10:52 PM

I don't even kill spiders, ants, or flies if I find one inside, I catch them in cups and gently put them down outside. :laugh: I'm a baby to an extreme degree when it comes to these things.

I'm right there with you, buddy.
You've never seen anything like the sight of me crawling around the floor at 4:30 in the morning, in nothing but a pair of shorts, trying to catch a grasshopper in a cup so I can let it outside.

Same with spiders, wasps, bees, etc.

But even though I find the idea of killing an animal myself to be horrifying, I've come to realize that it's a bit short-sighted of me to hold anything against someone who hunts for their food.
After all, by being a meat-eater, I'm just as "guilty" in the long run, because I can never be 100% positive that the animal I'm eating wasn't mistreated in life or brutally murdered.

As I said earlier, I've realized as I've grown older that at least hunters know exactly where their food came from, and how it died.
My own ignorance doesn't absolve me of anything.

dissention

02-12-2005, 10:52 PM

Well, only 10% of the population is gay, but we're still fighting for their rights. ;)

I didn't know taking another creature's life was a right. ;)

It might be a small number overall of people who NEED to hunt for their food, but there are still quite a number of people in this country for whom going to a grocery store to pick up dinner just is not an option.

Then wouldn't they be the people who need to? :shrug:

And really, if you think about it, when you hunt for your own food, at least you KNOW how the animal was killed. When we buy meat brought in from slaughterhouses, we're often guilty of the gruesome mistreatment of animals by complicity.

That's why you purchase naturally raised meat and know exactly what you're purchasing. Though I agree, that's not an option for many and that's unfortunate. Whereas I could go into a store right now and buy naturally raised chicken meat (not that I would) where the chickens were killed painlessly by gas, not all can do that.

amber

02-12-2005, 10:56 PM

here's what I think would be a smarter solution, but I am not a biologist so I dont know if it is feasible: I think that areas that have too many dear should capture them and relocate them to a different area that can support them.

Eventually time (and nature) will take care of the problem, because once the deer have eaten all the available food, they starve. I'd hate to see that happen so I hope other solutions aside from hunting are utilized....
Oh. Well, for the new area to be able to support them, there has to be the right kinds of plants, and also there has to be a good amount of top predators to naturally cull the population (good luck finding that!). And often, a certain animal is adapted to a certain geographical area, although for the most part, deer can adjust, but i think it's harder to find another place that can support the deer. For instance, i just read a big article about Point Reyes here, where an Australian type of deer that was let loose from a defunct zoo or something, is totally making it impossible for the native deer to thrive, and also are much larger and require much more food to live. They are also more aggressive. So, basically, they are stripping the land of food that other things in the ecosystem would normally have to eat (including the native deer) and are multiplying rapidly and causing all kinds of problems.

ShangriLaTroubl

02-12-2005, 10:57 PM

Although I must admit, when I did hunt this year I seemed less fond of it than in the past...doesn't seem like something I desire to do anymore really. I'm someone who stops the car, and moves a turtle out of the road...so I often feel bad for the deer--although I love the meat...I probably will not be a hunter as I grow old (whenever that will be!..lol)

Chris

Miss Vicky

02-12-2005, 10:57 PM

Animals are no longer creatures of nature, they're an industry. They're butalized and treated like pieces of trash; it breaks me heart. I can't even go into pet shops because I see those poor things locked in cages and I know there's nothing I can do about it. I can't very well buy them all and take them home. But the whole concept of being the one to end the life of an animal is just unbearable to me. I don't even kill spiders, ants, or flies if I find one inside, I catch them in cups and gently put them down outside. :laugh: I'm a baby to an extreme degree when it comes to these things.

I'm with you on this one, for the most part anyway. If I see a spider, fly, or other such creature in my house I have an old glass salt shaker that I use to capture them with and release them outside. The only time I ever kill an animal is when it is threatening the health of one of my pets. I don't hesitate to use flea prevention on my cats, for example. I also will not hesitate to kill ants if they colonize one of my pet cages. I have on more than one occasion had colonies of ants move into my hermit crab tank, my firebelly toad's tank (who unfortunately must be fed live crickets), and my rat cages. It isn't a matter of poor cage maintenance either, those little buggers can move in literally overnight. I don't feel particularly bad about the ants, though. They are, after all, Argentinian ants and are not native to this country. They're extremely destructive and have all but wiped out native ant species.

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 10:58 PM

But I disagree with the whole concept of those domesticated animals being raised only to be meat for us. And by saying wild animals are only meant to be eaten by other animals, you effectively, and erroneously, remove us from the food chain. Instead, you make us part of a false food chain that works against the natural ecosystem.
And you really don't understand my point of how I UNDERSTAND THAT OVERHUNTING OF MOUNTAIN LIONS RAISES THE DEER POPULATION, WHICH IS WRONG, BUT THAT STILL DOESN'T MAKE LESS DEER!!!! I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HUNT MOUNTAIN LIONS, I THINK WE SHOULD RESTORE THEM, BUT IN THE MEANTIME WE NEED TO CONTROL THE DEER POPULATION SO IT DOESN'T DECIMATE THE REST OF THE ECOSYSTEM.

did you read my post on the previous page before you wrote this?

also, I am not removing us from the food chain, we removed ourselves. We are simply too populous to even consider eating wild animals as part of our normal diet. The natural ecosystem doesnt factor in unnatually long lifespans or population booms or habitat diminishment or urban sprawl......

amber

02-12-2005, 10:59 PM

did you read my post on the previous page before you wrote this?
No, but I just did, and answered it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

amber

02-12-2005, 11:01 PM

I'm with you on this one, for the most part anyway. If I see a spider, fly, or other such creature in my house I have an old glass salt shaker that I use to capture them with and release them outside. The only time I ever kill an animal is when it is threatening the health of one of my pets. I don't hesitate to use flea prevention on my cats, for example. I also will not hesitate to kill ants if they colonize one of my pet cages. I have on more than one occasion had colonies of ants move into my hermit crab tank, my firebelly toad's tank (who unfortunately must be fed live crickets), and my rat cages. It isn't a matter of poor cage maintenance either, those little buggers can move in literally overnight. I don't feel particularly bad about the ants, though. They are, after all, Argentinian ants and are not native to this country. They're extremely destructive and have all but wiped out native ant species.
Bugs freak me out terribly. I usually try to call it to my cat's attention, so that he will catch and eat it, thus the circle of life is complete :laugh: but, otherwise, it's freak out then smash. Are you telling me you guys that don't kill bugs don't even kill Roaches if you see one? Wowee.

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 11:03 PM

No, but I just did, and answered it. Sorry for the misunderstanding. its all good!
:xoxo:

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 11:04 PM

I didn't know taking another creature's life was a right. ;)

I'll borrow one of your favorite sayings here... "I never said it was." ;)
I used the "10% of the population is gay, yet we still fight for their rights" analogy, because you had stated it was a "miniscule" amount of the population who needs to hunt for food... as if their needs can easily be ignored, because they're in the minority.

Your original statement of your opinion made no allotment for the MANY people in this country who do need to hunt for their food. But I see that at least you're beginning to realize that not everyone is in your particular situation, in regards to urban living and the relative convenience of buying naturally-raised meat (which, by the way, is more expensive -- another thing that can be prohibitive in many people's situations).

irishgrl

02-12-2005, 11:08 PM

Bugs freak me out terribly. I usually try to call it to my cat's attention, so that he will catch and eat it, thus the circle of life is complete :laugh: but, otherwise, it's freak out then smash. Are you telling me you guys that don't kill bugs don't even kill Roaches if you see one? Wowee.
I kill any spider stupid enuff to be in my domain. That includes outdoors. especially black widows. I kill wasps too...I hate them boogers...I also kill cockroaches but I havent seen a cockroach since I moved to the mountains.... all other bugs are gathered up and taken outside.

oh, I just remembered: one bug I think is exceptionally UGLY is the potato bug and I get the biggest shoe I have and smash that puppy if I see one...which I havent in my new house. I think the word is out: AVOID MARY'S PLACE IF YOU WANT TO LIVE! but all butterflies and moths get free passes....
:woohoo:

Johnny Stew

02-12-2005, 11:09 PM

Are you telling me you guys that don't kill bugs don't even kill Roaches if you see one? Wowee.

I've actually never seen a roach outside of photos and Cheech & Chong movies (*rimshot*).

But I supposed that I would kill one if I saw it, since they carry diseases.

dissention

02-12-2005, 11:10 PM

Your original statement of your opinion made no allotment for the MANY people in this country who do need to hunt for their food.

Hogwash. Go read post #67.

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=264440&postcount=67

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 11:13 PM

No one needs to kill another beautiful creature when there is plenty of food out there for them to eat already. Why kill one more animal than needs to be killed? They surely aren't going to starve. I don't know how anyone can muster up the strength within themselves to take the life of another creature and watch as life escapes them, but that's just me. More power to those who can because it's not illegal, unfortunately.

Hypocrite (meant in a friendly way :wavey: )- you do not mind it so much when you buy it in the market. But, I suppose it is okay then because someone else killed it :rolleyes:

Look - I get not everyone can hunt - but I suggest if you had to you would - instead of benefiting from some unknown person's willingness to do so so you do not have to yourself. But, you are not alone - VERY few are able to look at it this way as they cannot accept that everytime they put meat in their mouths someone had to slaughter it and then butcher it. AND - I am not saying that either is an easy thing to do if you actually have to think about it. I have done both.

As for killing more than necessary, anyone who believes that ought to be for hunting because it would kill WAY less (I suggest by half) than the number killed for supermarket beef, most of which is thrown away because it did not sell or went bad after the sale :shrug:

In the end, I think this is one of those issues that no one is going to agree about - so I think I just do what I feel comfortable with and the hell with the rest of the world :laugh: (levity in a serious topic :cool: )

amber

02-12-2005, 11:15 PM

I kill any spider stupid enuff to be in my domain. That includes outdoors. especially black widows. I kill wasps too...I hate them boogers...I also kill cockroaches but I havent seen a cockroach since I moved to the mountains.... all other bugs are gathered up and taken outside.

oh, I just remembered: one bug I think is exceptionally UGLY is the potato bug and I get the biggest shoe I have and smash that puppy if I see one...which I havent in my new house. I think the word is out: AVOID MARY'S PLACE IF YOU WANT TO LIVE! but all butterflies and moths get free passes....
:woohoo:
Hohmigod - Potato Bugs *shudder* you mean those really giant bugs with two sections, right? (some people call rolly bugs potato bugs). One morning, I had gotten ready for 8th grade, and I had put my Vans on, and i kept feeling something in my toe. So I took my shoe off, tapped the toe, and out plops this GIANT potato bug! It was like, an inch and a half long, and as fat as a mouse! I was soooooo scared, and I just panicked. I froze, deciding what to do, and I couldn't get near the thing. Finally, i woke up my dad (who was pissed, cause he had worked swing shift) and was shaking, and almost crying, and was like "dad! DAD!!!!" and then i told him, and he was like "you woke me up for a BUG?!" and i was all "Dad, it's huge!" :laugh: :lol: Also, my mom and I both pretty much flee while screaming and panicking from anything that resembles a wasp/hornet/yellow jacket. One night five or so got into my house, my cat alerted me, and the one that got on my curtain by my ceiling? that i couldn't reach with spray? I sat and stared at that bastard for 45 MINUTES. i was so scared, and wouldn't let it out of my sight!
Anyways, sorry for the big thing, bugs just freak me out. :laugh:

strandinthewind

02-12-2005, 11:16 PM

. . . You try living in the middle of nowhere in the dead of winter. We couldn't make it to the store for weeks on end (no lie). We had to hunt. :nod:

These big city people cannot comprehend that concept - sad - very true. I know people who live off of their land and never go to the store for food. Why should they have to is beyond me.

amber

02-12-2005, 11:17 PM

Hypocrite (meant in a friendly way :wavey: )- you do not mind it so much when you buy it in the market. But, I suppose it is okay then because someone else killed it :rolleyes:

Look - I get not everyone can hunt - but I suggest if you had to you would - instead of benefiting from some unknown person's willingness to do so so you do not have to yourself. But, you are not alone - VERY few are able to look at it this way as they cannot accept that everytime they put meat in their mouths someone had to slaughter it and then butcher it. AND - I am not saying that either is an easy thing to do if you actually have to think about it. I have done both.

As for killing more than necessary, anyone who believes that ought to be for hunting because it would kill WAY less (I suggest by half) than the number killed for supermarket beef, most of which is thrown away because it did not sell or went bad after the sale :shrug:

In the end, I think this is one of those issues that no one is going to agree about - so I think I just do what I feel comfortable with and the hell with the rest of the world :laugh: (levity in a serious topic :cool: )
To my eyes, your point was made very effectively. :woohoo: