"Tusk" Survivor - Round 16

[mondaymornin1]

Once again......

[strandinthewind]

Yes Jason. I don't think "Sara" went out too soon solely because of the Lindsey mafia though, the same gang failed in getting enough votes for other Stevie songs as you probably witnessed yourself if you read the previous rounds of votes.
But I do think that people love these three remaining songs a lot. They're not just here because they were deemed the most likely to stay in the game this long; they're songs we all obviously enjoy. Stuff that the fan community can agree upon. Ok, Cristian may hate "IKINW" to death and Marc may do the same to "Beautiful Child" but there's nowhere on this planet a song that someone doesn't dislike from the bottom of one's heart. We are all allowed our personal quirks, after all. ;)

Absolutley - ITA!!!!!!!!

I think the remaining three are all great!!!!!!!!!!

[face of glass]

What I do object to is the underlying feeling of some that if Stevie wins it will be a travesty because she has no talent, is a flake, owes everything to LB, her rabid fans love only her and no other FM member, blah blah blah.
That doesn't speak of anything else than what people listen to in Stevie Nicks songs released within Fleetwood Mac. Some relate to the lyrics and the performance, and the musical aspects of the songwriting very powerfully. I relate to the entire track itself, the way Stevie sings it, the way she reacts to the instruments, the way those instruments react to her, etc. There is a Buckingham-Nicks connection in there, if merely in the way the lead instruments and the lead voices speak to each other. That's something that never comes out in Stevie Nicks solo music for understandable reasons.

Of course, I've seen the counter-argument being thrown around too. That Lindsey is at his best when he's inspired by Stevie. But with things like Tusk one can't pull that trick, because the overwhelming majority of what he did rejected the Rumours formula which involved Stevie Nicks' vocals. And if someone likes his tracks for the lyrics alone (which might as well be about picking his nose, all of them), then :rolleyes:.

Such is the never ending state of the saga on this and other boards...
http://fmdrama.shyper.com/index.htm.

*bows out*

[strandinthewind]

That doesn't speak of anything else than what people listen to in Stevie Nicks songs released within Fleetwood Mac. Some relate to the lyrics and the performance, and the musical aspects of the songwriting very powerfully. I relate to the entire track itself, the way Stevie sings it, the way she reacts to the instruments, the way those instruments react to her, etc. There is a Buckingham-Nicks connection in there, if merely in the way the lead instruments and the lead voices speak to each other. That's something that never comes out in Stevie Nicks solo music for understandable reasons.

Of course, I've seen the counter-argument being thrown around too. That Lindsey is at his best when he's inspired by Stevie. But with things like Tusk one can't pull that trick, because the overwhelming majority of what he did rejected the Rumours formula which involved Stevie Nicks' vocals. And if someone likes his tracks for the lyrics alone (which might as well be about picking his nose, all of them), then :rolleyes:.

See - I disagree - I think FM produces things as a band and they all give input in varying degrees. I think Stevie's presence as well as that of CM, can be felt on all of LB's tracks. Stevie makes up incredible harmonies and those come from her and enhance the song (otherwise why would LB keep them on there :shrug: ) - so I think no is pulling the euphamistic "trick" - I think they are collaborative efforts to some degree. But, people will never admit that - it is all LB and the others are gnats on his ass :laugh: :rolleyes:

[Gazza]

I don't really mind. I like Beautiful Child, Storms and I Know I'm Not Wrong. I think the likes of The Ledge and What Makes You Think You're The One going early is tragic though.

[shackin'up]

- it is all LB and the others are gnats on his ass :laugh: :rolleyes:

Well Strand I happen to totally agree with you, apart from above funny quote. It's the criticism-less (sorry) attitude from the Stevie-worshippers (fandom and press) that forced me in the Buckingham-camp. We're talking 79-80 here. From that moment on, people who saw the band in the more realistic perspective had to fight that Stevie-the-star-and-her-band-image with an exaggeration of at least buckinghams' role. It was years and years later that I came to the conclusion that it maybe was not such a big exaggeration. :p

[strandinthewind]

Well Strand I happen to totally agree with you, apart from above funny quote. It's the criticism-less (sorry) attitude from the Stevie-worshippers (fandom and press) that forced me in the Buckingham-camp. We're talking 79-80 here. From that moment on, people who saw the band in the more realistic perspective had to fight that Stevie-the-star-and-her-band-image with an exaggeration of at least buckinghams' role. It was years and years later that I came to the conclusion that it maybe was not such a big exaggeration. :p

Well, Stevie was the star and she worked hard to be that - yet people begrudge her for it - I'll never get it. Note: CM and LB clearly were stars in their own right, but even they and other members of FM recognized that La Nicks stood out because of her charismatic stage presence. LB did it in the DR doc and CM readily admitted in the drunken Japan footage (lord love her) that that stage presence and the dancing, etc. added to and enhanced the performances of FM :shrug: So, I am not saying LB and CM have no talent or stage presence - I am just saying that in the day and even now, Stevie has more of it to more, but certainly not all, people and that is hard to ignore.

But that does not mean Stevie is a talentless idiot who happens to surround herself with great talent without which she could not sing a note or write a word. That vision of Stevie is what I object to. I also object to people saying that me saying that is a blindly rabid defense and one not grounded in reality. But, people (not you Gerald) say it anyway and I think it makes them look hypocrtical, defensive and idiotic - which is why I think no reasonable person can actually think that - thus they say it to be inflammatory :laugh:

Again, the saga never ends - its just like a river :laugh:

[The Tower]

.........................................................

[ryan8472]

Stop voting based on live performances people! The album version is boring! Live is another story....

[amber]

The best part is, whichever 2 are left after this, both will have won.(in my head) So it's probably gonna be IKINW and Storms as the winners, which is just perfectly balanced. So, this is my last vote....
Amber

[marc402]

a pitty it is still here when so many other far better songs are long gone :(

[dissention]

I find it perplexing that people are voting based on how a song comes across live. We're playing Tusk Survior, not Live Tusk Songs Survivor. If we were, I wouldn't have lobbied to get rid of Sara so early.

[dissention]

Well, Stevie was the star and she worked hard to be that - yet people begrudge her for it - I'll never get it.

Maybe it has to do with the fact that it's kind of selfish to work towards being the "star" of a band with three lead vocalists, three songwriters, and two of which play instruments. Can you honestly blame Lindsey and, to some extent, Chris for being rather miffed over Stevie's antics and also how their respective fans would feel as if Stevie deliberately upstaged them (which, while I could care less, is what she obviously did)? I know I would have been fuming and would probably have tarred the flake's black robes if I was in the band. ;) :laugh:

So, I am not saying LB and CM have no talent or stage presence - I am just saying that in the day and even now, Stevie has more of it to more, but certainly not all, people and that is hard to ignore.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of folks who saw Fleetwood Mac this past tour would disagree.

[amber]

Maybe it has to do with the fact that it's kind of selfish to work towards being the "star" of a band with three lead vocalists, three songwriters, and two of which play instruments. Can you honestly blame Lindsey and, to some extent, Chris for being rather miffed over Stevie's antics and also how their respective fans would feel as if Stevie deliberately upstaged them (which, while I could care less, is what she obviously did)? I know I would have been fuming and would probably have tarred the flake's black robes if I was in the band. ;) :laugh: .
I don't think she was trying to upstage, I do think she was trying to give the best performance possible, like i'm sure they all were, and hers often WAS the best, so it just naturally upstaged. Plus, she wasn't tied to an instrument, so her performances naturally had a different element. I'm hoping the other bandmates weren't mad at her just for giving a great performance...
That's like not liking someone because they're prettier than you :laugh: ie, you can't help who you are.



I'm willing to bet that the majority of folks who saw Fleetwood Mac this past tour would disagree.
Liddy Buck was the Hammie McStar this tour... :nod: He was excellent, excellent, excellent!!!!!
AMber

[Johnny Stew]

I don't think she was trying to upstage....

Silly, silly, Amber.
Let me give you the facts... when Stevie is dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's simply trying to upstage Lindsey and Christine and get all the attention.
And when Stevie isn't dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's just a lifeless bore who should have retired years ago.

These are the plain facts, my dear!
So learn them, accept them, and then repeat them often in the hopes that others will agree with you. ;) :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

Maybe it has to do with the fact that it's kind of selfish to work towards being the "star" of a band with three lead vocalists, three songwriters, and two of which play instruments. Can you honestly blame Lindsey and, to some extent, Chris for being rather miffed over Stevie's antics and also how their respective fans would feel as if Stevie deliberately upstaged them (which, while I could care less, is what she obviously did)? I know I would have been fuming and would probably have tarred the flake's black robes if I was in the band. ;) :laugh:

Poppycock - CM repeatedly said she never wanted it and LB - well who the hell knows what he was thinking - but he sure was jealous of it and from day one, Stevie always gave LB a wide berth by standing to the side during his solos :shrug: BTW - where did CM or LB EVER say there were miffed at her stage presence prior to 1987? I have NEVER read that. I will admit that after LB left and was pissed at her, he let go with some snide remarks, but that surely sounded like sour grapes to me and he never said he was pissed at her for becoming the "star" :shrug: So, all this Stevie is a cruel and conniving bitch that stole the light from poor helpless LB and CM is just drivel. They admittedly were okay with it and you know that!!!! :cool:

I'm willing to bet that the majority of folks who saw Fleetwood Mac this past tour would disagree.

I agree and he was due it after 25 years. I also think the VAST majority of the people willingly admit (and the other half know it but cannot admit it :laigh: ) that La Nicks was subdued for whatever reason and that let LB's natural shine show more. Again, one spin sequence across the stage during Big Love or some other solo song and the light goes to her. I am not saying LB is not great or anything like that. I am just saying Stevie is a natural for the light - always has been always will be - LB even said as much in DR doc. (I think it was in that when he talks about she was beautiful,had that husky voice, etc.)

[dissention]

Silly, silly, Amber.
Let me give you the facts... when Stevie is dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's simply trying to upstage Lindsey and Christine and get all the attention.
And when Stevie isn't dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's just a lifeless bore who should have retired years ago.

These are the plain facts, my dear!
So learn them, accept them, and then repeat them often in the hopes that others will agree with you. ;) :xoxo:

I'm shocked that you believe those are the facts! Truly shocked! Even I don't believe those things! :eek:

[strandinthewind]

Silly, silly, Amber.
Let me give you the facts... when Stevie is dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's simply trying to upstage Lindsey and Christine and get all the attention.
And when Stevie isn't dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's just a lifeless bore who should have retired years ago.

These are the plain facts, my dear!
So learn them, accept them, and then repeat them often in the hopes that others will agree with you. ;) :xoxo:

My point exactly - AND - she is a talentless, fat, lazy, bitchy, coke whore who relies on LB for everything including the air she breathes :rolleyes: Give me a break :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

I'm shocked that you believe those are the facts! Truly shocked! Even I don't believe those things! :eek:

Smart Ass!!!! :laugh: :laugh:

[dissention]

Poppycock - CM repeatedly said she never wanted it and LB - well who the hell knows what he was thinking - but he sure was jealous of it and from day one, Stevie always gave LB a wide berth by standing to the side during his solos :shrug: BTW - where did CM or LB EVER say there were miffed at her stage presence prior to 1987? I have NEVER read that. I will admit that after LB left and was pissed at her, he let go with some snide remarks, but that surely sounded like sour grapes to me and he never said he was pissed at her for becoming the "star" :shrug: So, all this Stevie is a cruel and conniving bitch that stole the light from poor helpless LB and CM is just drivel. They admittedly were okay with it and you know that!!!! :cool:

Speaking of poppycock... :cool:

I think it would take a stretch of the imagination to believe for a second that they weren't resentful of Stevie for upstaging them all the time. In what Lindsey didn't express with words, he certainly expressed his feelings in other ways. For example, his antics at one of their Australian shows for Tusk. As for Chris, you must not have read many of her interviews or seen some of them. Sometimes she was simply brutal, albeit under the guise of sarcasm and wit. :nod: One of my favorite snide comments from her was the "sex symbol" one from the Rumours outtake footage. That one was nasty. :laugh:

I agree and he was due it after 25 years. I also think the VAST majority of the people willingly admit (and the other half know it but cannot admit it :laigh: ) that La Nicks was subdued for whatever reason and that let LB's natural shine show more...

Yes, and if Stevie isn't the one who is getting all the accolades, she must have been "subdued" or "off" that night. :rolleyes: :laugh: There's always an excuse. No one can ever say for one second that maybe it's Lindsey who just becomes more comfortable and outgoing onstage as the years pass. Or that he's the one with all the energy and doesn't just rest on one simple, off-balanced twirl to get people riled up. I swear, if they were performing and she only got a few claps for Dreams or Rhiannon, people would say it's only because the crowd was full of Lindsey fans who "couldn't stand the flake."

Again, one spin sequence across the stage during Big Love or some other solo song and the light goes to her.

That would be the epitome of upstaging and spotlight-grabbing. ;)

[dissention]

My point exactly - AND - she is a talentless, fat, lazy, bitchy, coke whore who relies on LB for everything including the air she breathes :rolleyes: Give me a break :laugh:

Yeah, really, give me a break. Show me one person on this board who has said such things and I'll sell you a swamp in Florida.

[EnchantedSLN]

I find it perplexing that people are voting based on how a song comes across live. We're playing Tusk Survior, not Live Tusk Songs Survivor. If we were, I wouldn't have lobbied to get rid of Sara so early.

I'm not :xoxo:. Beautiful Child was my favorite song long before this tour ever started. As good as it sounds live, I think it's even better on the record. I'm actually quite surprised to see so much love for BC. I always thought it was generally regarded as an average and somewhat forgettable song on an otherwise brilliant album. I thought it would have gone much sooner.

Don't forget opinions based on live performances could be working in Lindsey's favor too ;). I bet a lot of people gained a whole new appreciation for I Know I'm Not Wrong after he started playing it on this tour.

[dissention]

Smart Ass!!!! :laugh: :laugh:

I'm not being a smart ass, I'm pointing out that his generalizations about how Lindsey fans feel about Stevie are so off-base most of the time that they become irrelevant. :cool:

I think that Stevie, at present time, uses just the right amount of her schtick. Not too much, not too little. I mean, even the most die-hard of fans will admit that she went so over the top in the late-eighties and early-nineties that she became a joke. She just needed to find the right balance between her image and how much should be used onstage to accompany her songs. Which, I submit, is what she has done in recent years and quite masterfully. :nod:

[dissention]

I'm not :xoxo:. Beautiful Child was my favorite song long before this tour ever started. As good as it sounds live, I think it's even better on the record. I'm actually quite surprised to see so much love for BC. I always thought it was generally regarded as an average and somewhat forgettable song on an otherwise brilliant album. I thought it would have gone much sooner.

Don't forget opinions based on live performances could be working in Lindsey's favor too ;). I bet a lot of people gained a whole new appreciation for I Know I'm Not Wrong after he started playing it on this tour.

I know you're not, it's your favorite song. :laugh: Which I learned the hard way. :laugh:

Beautiful Child is a fantastic song, IMO, and one of the songs that I instantly warmed up to (with the exception of "you fell in love when I was only ten" line, that's awful!!). But Lindsey deserves to win this because he truly does have the best songs on the album, IMO.

And I agree about IKINW. But I didn't want to admit it, darling. :lol:

[strandinthewind]

Yeah, really, give me a break. Show me one person on this board who has said such things and I'll sell you a swamp in Florida.

It was hyperbole ya bonehead :cool: :laugh: :wavey: :p :)

[AliceLover]

i know im not wrong for voting for this.

Jimmy

[strandinthewind]

Speaking of poppycock... :cool:

I think it would take a stretch of the imagination to believe for a second that they weren't resentful of Stevie for upstaging them all the time. In what Lindsey didn't express with words, he certainly expressed his feelings in other ways. For example, his antics at one of their Australian shows for Tusk. As for Chris, you must not have read many of her interviews or seen some of them. Sometimes she was simply brutal, albeit under the guise of sarcasm and wit. :nod: One of my favorite snide comments from her was the "sex symbol" one from the Rumours outtake footage. That one was nasty.

I think she, bless her heart, was so drunk she could not hold her head up except with effort and in the end she said what Stevie did added to the show and that is why it was there, etc. :shrug: So, I did not take it as resentment. AND - La Nicks has repeatedly said CM was fine with her taking the front position. AND - in the sex symbol one, CM soon thereafter says she was fine with Stevie being that and she and Stevie had talked about it, etc. So, maybe you have not seen the whole thing :shrug: As for LB kicking and mimicing La Nicks, I think that stemmed from her breaking up with him years before, but even if it was jealousy of her star quality, it was one show of hundreds? But, you can spin it anyway you want to I guess.

Yes, and if Stevie isn't the one who is getting all the accolades, she must have been "subdued" or "off" that night. :rolleyes: :laugh: There's always an excuse. No one can ever say for one second that maybe it's Lindsey who just becomes more comfortable and outgoing onstage as the years pass. Or that he's the one with all the energy and doesn't just rest on one simple, off-balanced twirl to get people riled up. I swear, if they were performing and she only got a few claps for Dreams or Rhiannon, people would say it's only because the crowd was full of Lindsey fans who "couldn't stand the flake."

That would be the epitome of upstaging and spotlight-grabbing. ;)

Whatever, I was merely pointing out that LB shines on his own and brightly and that Stevie is and was a supernova. But, once again you do not see my point and want to argue mindlessly and put words in my mouth.

So, seeing as how this harpy fest has occurred about ten times in the past with essentially the same players, I bow out. You have the last word - go for it :cool: :wavey: :D

[amber]

Speaking of poppycock... :cool:

I think it would take a stretch of the imagination to believe for a second that they weren't resentful of Stevie for upstaging them all the time. In what Lindsey didn't express with words, he certainly expressed his feelings in other ways. For example, his antics at one of their Australian shows for Tusk. As for Chris, you must not have read many of her interviews or seen some of them. Sometimes she was simply brutal, albeit under the guise of sarcasm and wit. :nod: One of my favorite snide comments from her was the "sex symbol" one from the Rumours outtake footage. That one was nasty. :laugh:;)
What did she say?



Yes, and if Stevie isn't the one who is getting all the accolades, she must have been "subdued" or "off" that night. :rolleyes: :laugh: There's always an excuse. No one can ever say for one second that maybe it's Lindsey who just becomes more comfortable and outgoing onstage as the years pass. Or that he's the one with all the energy and doesn't just rest on one simple, off-balanced twirl to get people riled up. I swear, if they were performing and she only got a few claps for Dreams or Rhiannon, people would say it's only because the crowd was full of Lindsey fans who "couldn't stand the flake."



That would be the epitome of upstaging and spotlight-grabbing. ;)
Who are these people who would say this? I think what you said about them seems to be a valid point, from what I saw. Also, from the video I've seen, Lindsey kinda always rocked out....It's just that NOW, his rock out seems even more rocked out cause of Stevie's more sedate energy... :woohoo:
AMber

[amber]

Whatever, I was merely pointing out that LB shines on his own and brightly and that Stevie is and was a supernova. But, once again you do not see my point and want to argue mindlessly and put words in my mouth.

So, seeing as how this harpy fest has occurred about ten times in the past with essentially the same players, I bow out. You have the last word - go for it :cool: :wavey: :D
Oops, you made the same point as me! Very well said... :wavey:
AMber

[EnchantedSLN]

Aw, you guys are marginalizing both Stevie & Lindsey's fans. I love them both but have a slight preference for Stevie overall and I'll say it -- if she only gets a few claps for Dreams or Rhiannon, it's not because the audience is full of obstinate Buckingham fans... it's because those songs have become snoozers! And Lindsey didn't need Stevie to become more "subdued" to shine. It's all him.

I'm proud of us, guys. We made it to the last 3 rounds before the Stevie vs. Lindsey argument emerged again :laugh:.

[dissention]

I think she, bless her heart, was so drunk she could not hold her head up except with effort

Isn't there an old saying that people show their true feelings when drunk? :lol: :p :wavey:

[Serrart]

Maybe it has to do with the fact that it's kind of selfish to work towards being the "star" of a band with three lead vocalists, three songwriters, and two of which play instruments. Can you honestly blame Lindsey and, to some extent, Chris for being rather miffed over Stevie's antics and also how their respective fans would feel as if Stevie deliberately upstaged them (which, while I could care less, is what she obviously did)? I know I would have been fuming and would probably have tarred the flake's black robes if I was in the band.

Her appeal and charisma seems to me totally natural and instinctive and has nothing to do, IMO, with being or not a sex symbol. Moreover she has an incredible talent as songwriter and singer, that adds an unusual depth to the "star dream" :cool:. I'm in another continent and watching Live in Boston I feel her energy, that goes beyond her amazing performance and even music, it's a rare gift. When she is with Fleetwood Mac, I see it as an added bonus to a fantastic band where every component is a true artist. :)

Romy

[amber]

Isn't there an old saying that people show their true feelings when drunk? :lol: :p :wavey:
What'd she say?
and, that's true...I get really happy, friendly, dancy and talkative when i'm drunk....don't tell anyone my real feelings.... :p
AMber

[dissention]

What'd she say?

She was asked what it was like being a sex symbol in rock and she said "I don't know, ask Stevie Nicks," in this witty, sarcastic, yet nasty nonetheless way that she speaks. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Isn't there an old saying that people show their true feelings when drunk? :lol: :p :wavey:

Well, she said she was okay with Stevie dancing around on stage because it added to and enhanced the show AND she said she was okay with Stevie being a sex symbol - so I guess she did show her true feelings :shrug: :wavey: :xoxo:

[dissention]

I get really happy, friendly, dancy and talkative when i'm drunk

I bite. :cool: :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

She was asked what it was like being a sex symbol in rock and she said "I don't know, ask Stevie Nicks," in this witty, sarcastic, yet nasty nonetheless way that she speaks. :laugh:

There is FAR more to that interview Dissention once again quotes only what supports his tripe. I will try and find a transcription of it. But, after CM says that, she also says she and Stevie are okay with it, etc., which CLEARLY indicates Dissention's point is unsupported.

[dissention]

Well, she said she was okay with Stevie dancing around on stage because it added to and enhanced the show AND she said she was okay with Stevie being a sex symbol - so I guess she did show her true feelings :shrug: :wavey: :xoxo:

So much for giving me the last word because you were finished. :rolleyes: :p

[strandinthewind]

I bite. :cool: :laugh:

Lord Child - I have been known to bite, drool, belt out a little Ethel Merman, buy the bar a drink if they are FM, and who the hell knows what else :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

So much for giving me the last word because you were finished. :rolleyes: :p

I was talking about LB and the shining thing - once again, please quote me in context :cool: :wavey:

Here is the context

Quote:
Originally Posted by dissention
Yes, and if Stevie isn't the one who is getting all the accolades, she must have been "subdued" or "off" that night. There's always an excuse. No one can ever say for one second that maybe it's Lindsey who just becomes more comfortable and outgoing onstage as the years pass. Or that he's the one with all the energy and doesn't just rest on one simple, off-balanced twirl to get people riled up. I swear, if they were performing and she only got a few claps for Dreams or Rhiannon, people would say it's only because the crowd was full of Lindsey fans who "couldn't stand the flake."

That would be the epitome of upstaging and spotlight-grabbing.


Whatever, I was merely pointing out that LB shines on his own and brightly and that Stevie is and was a supernova. But, once again you do not see my point and want to argue mindlessly and put words in my mouth.

So, seeing as how this harpy fest has occurred about ten times in the past with essentially the same players, I bow out. You have the last word - go for it

[EnchantedSLN]

and, that's true...I get really happy, friendly, dancy and talkative when i'm drunk....don't tell anyone my real feelings....
AMber

You're already all those things! :p

[dissention]

There is FAR more to that interview Dissention once again quotes only what supports his tripe. I will try and find a transcription of it. But, after CM says that, she also says she and Stevie are okay with it, etc., which CLEARLY indicates Dissention's point is unsupported.

Yup, all is fantastic in Stevieland. She never upstaged anyone, everything she sings is perfect, every song is a masterpiece, she has more emotion in her songs than anyone else, she had the most charisma and stage presence, she's the most gifted, she's an angel, we've all been touched by the angel, and blah blah blah.

Seriously, arguments from both sides of fandom are getting boring; mine, yours, everyone else's. :laugh: It's all subjective and our conclusions are only our opinions. ;) :wavey:

[amber]

You're already all those things! :p
uh, i had a cocktail before I got there... :p The San Jose one, not Concord...
AMber

[Johnny Stew]

Seriously, arguments from both sides of fandom are getting boring; mine, yours, everyone else's. :laugh: It's all subjective and our conclusions are only our opinions. ;) :wavey:

We should move over to the Pre-Rumours Forum, and start debates about Green vs. Spencer or Welch vs. Kirwan.
Those are arguments just waiting to happen, but no one ever explores that fertile territory.

Wouldn't we just shock the crap outta chiliD if we actually talked about members other than Stevie & Lindsey?! :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Yup, all is fantastic in Stevieland. She never upstaged anyone, everything she sings is perfect, every song is a masterpiece, she has more emotion in her songs than anyone else, she had the most charisma and stage presence, she's the most gifted, she's an angel, we've all been touched by the angel, and blah blah blah.

Seriously, arguments from both sides of fandom are getting boring; mine, yours, everyone else's. :laugh: It's all subjective and our conclusions are only our opinions. ;) :wavey:

Well, actually, my conclusions are quotes from what they said on this, so . . . :wavey:

[dissention]

Well, actually, my conclusions are quotes from what they said on this, so . . . :wavey:

Which are always open for interpretation, so... :wavey:

[Serrart]

It's one of those songs that makes me admire so deeply Stevie' s talent... BUT this is a game and a final round without a real competition wouldn't be fun or fair, I think.

Now relax everybody and start thinking to a music masterpiece, a bright example of powerful songwriting about lonely nights, regrets and blue calm seas... Ahem, sorry :D

Romy

[strandinthewind]

Which are always open for interpretation, so... :wavey:

For people who want to spin it :wavey:

[amber]

Yup, all is fantastic in Stevieland. She never upstaged anyone, everything she sings is perfect, every song is a masterpiece, she has more emotion in her songs than anyone else, she had the most charisma and stage presence, she's the most gifted, she's an angel, we've all been touched by the angel, and blah blah blah.

Seriously, arguments from both sides of fandom are getting boring; mine, yours, everyone else's. :laugh: It's all subjective and our conclusions are only our opinions. ;) :wavey:
Wait, everyone stop talking!!! Don Diss has pronounced the argument "boring" everyone back to your places... ;) :laugh:
What Chris said didn't seem especially biting...probably a bit sarcastic, but I do think she was joking (yes, i didn't see it, of course) And while i see your point in the above - I DO think she had the most charisma and stage presence...actually Lindsey was about equal, but not really as "hot" or "unusual" as Stevie, IMO, so in my head she edges him out a bit, in the olden days....of course, they're all phenomenal. Don't think everything she writes is a masterpiece, don't think everything she sings is perfect. But I appreciate your creativity in which words you decide to put in people's mouths... :D sorry if i bored you, PLEASE DON'T BITE ME!!!! :laugh:
AMber

[sodascouts]

What Chris said didn't seem especially biting...probably a bit sarcastic, but I do think she was joking (yes, i didn't see it, of course)

Seriously - and it was followed by non-sarcastic complimentary comments about Stevie. It seemed more self-depracatory humor about her own lack of a "sex symbol" following than bitterness directed at Stevie. If that is the best "support" dissention can come up with for Chris' supposed angry resentment of Stevie Nicks' star power it's pretty weak.

[heyjupiter678]

It seemed more self-depracatory humor about her own lack of a "sex symbol" following
That's the feeling I got from it, too. :shrug:

[amber]

Seriously - and it was followed by non-sarcastic complimentary comments about Stevie. It seemed more self-depracatory humor about her own lack of a "sex symbol" following than bitterness directed at Stevie. If that is the best "support" dissention can come up with for Chris' supposed angry resentment of Stevie Nicks' star power it's pretty weak.
picturing Chris, that's kinda how i thought she meant it...Yeah, she's always seemed pretty cool about the whole thing...however, if I want to imagine things, like if it was me, I (chris) may have occasionally been sad if some hot guy i thought was cute (say, at a party or whatever) liked Stevie instead :laugh: :laugh: But it seems to me she did just fine....sometimes i think Diss has an over active imagination :laugh: ( :xoxo: love you, Diss)
AMber

[dissention]

For people who want to spin it :wavey:

Of which you are one. :wavey:

[dissention]

Seriously - and it was followed by non-sarcastic complimentary comments about Stevie. It seemed more self-depracatory humor about her own lack of a "sex symbol" following than bitterness directed at Stevie. If that is the best "support" dissention can come up with for Chris' supposed angry resentment of Stevie Nicks' star power it's pretty weak.

Speaking of spin... :laugh:

I never claimed that she had an "angry resentment" towards her, I simply said that over the course of the bands history, it would be quite absurd to say that Chris was NEVER jealous or resentful towards Stevie for her antics.

I don't have to "support" my argument, there are plenty of interviews and quotes out there for everyone to look up if they want to. :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

Of which you are one. :wavey:

Again, I quoted them. What did you do - well, I'll tell you - you partially quoted CM and then put your spin on it. So . . . :wavey:

[dissention]

sometimes i think Diss has an over active imagination :laugh: ( :xoxo: love you, Diss)
AMber

Yeah, I'm the one with the overactive imagination. :lol:

I don't speculate on how Lindsey is cheating on Kristen with Stevie, how Kristen was a surrogate for Stevie's baby, how Lindsey sleeps with every blonde he meets at a bar, how Stevie had so many abortions, etc. Puhleeze! :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Speaking of spin... :laugh:

I never claimed that she had an "angry resentment" towards her, I simply said that over the course of the bands history, it would be quite absurd to say that Chris was NEVER jealous or resentful towards Stevie for her antics.

Someone is backtracking :laugh:


I don't have to "support" my argument, there are plenty of interviews and quotes out there for everyone to look up if they want to. :xoxo:

That is such RANK BS and you know it :laugh:

I call you out right here and now - show us these interviews which you allege are plentiful. You cannot and you know it!! :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[dissention]

Again, I quoted them. What did you do - well, I'll tell you - you partially quoted CM and then put your spin on it. So . . . :wavey:

Round and round we go...

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Yeah, I'm the one with the overactive imagination. :lol:

I don't speculate on how Lindsey is cheating on Kristen with Stevie, how Kristen was a surrogate for Stevie's baby, how Lindsey sleeps with every blonde he meets at a bar, how Stevie had so many abortions, etc. Puhleeze! :laugh:

Now Now - no changing the subject just because you are called for and can't come :laugh: :wavey: :xoxo: :angel: :rolleyes:

[stefan]

Poppycock - CM repeatedly said she never wanted it and LB - well who the hell knows what he was thinking

Well I know it. He was thinking about cycles, movies and paintings :lol:

[strandinthewind]

Round and round we go...

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

on your spin!!!!!!!

You do realize I LOVE having you in this corner and you put yourself there :laugh :xoxo: :angel:

[dissention]

Someone is backtracking :laugh:

In what way? :wavey:

That is such RANK BS and you know it :laugh:

I call you out right here and now - show us these interviews which you allege are plentiful. You cannot and you know it!! :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Call it whatever you want, I could care less. We hardly ever see anything the same, this shouldn't be any different. :xoxo: I'm not about to go searching through interviews because, frankly, I've not the time or patience. But you're welcome to. :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Well I know it. He was thinking about cycles, movies and paintings :lol:

Probably - poor thing and Lord knows I love him, but . . . :laugh: :laugh:

[dissention]

on your spin!!!!!!!

You do realize I LOVE having you in this corner and you put yourself there :laugh :xoxo: :angel:

You're just mad because it's the right corner. ;)

[strandinthewind]

In what way? :wavey:



Call it whatever you want, I could care less. We hardly ever see anything the same, this shouldn't be any different. :xoxo: I'm not about to go searching through interviews because, frankly, I've not the time or patience. But you're welcome to. :wavey:

Funny, if you actually had them, history demonstrates you'd cite them in a minute. So -

Called for and couldn't come
Called for and couldn't come
Called for and couldn't come
Called for and couldn't come
Called for and couldn't come
Called for and couldn't come
Called for and couldn't come

and you damn well know it and I am SO enjoying it :laugh: :wavey: :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

You're just mad because it's the right corner. ;)

right in the middle of the YOU ARE DEAD ASS WRONG corner :laugh:

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


Come on now - play fair and just fess up to it!!!!!!!! :rolleyes: :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Yo Diss - does your delayed response mean you are looking up those articles you said there were "plenty" of???????????

:p :p :p :p

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

:rolleyes:

[dissention]

Yo Diss - does your delayed response mean you are looking up those articles you said there were "plenty" of???????????

:p :p :p :p

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

:rolleyes:

No, it means that I'm on the phone with a doctor. ;)

[strandinthewind]

O hope everything is okay

AND

Here is one where SN says CM was a little jealous:

Considering they didn’t want her in the first place, “They made me feel wonderful,” she sighs, “and I fell madly in love with all of them immediately, even though I knew in my heart they didn’t really need me. So I’d try to be really good and maybe I’d find a way to be needed there. I didn’t know what else to do. I liked them so much that I was willing to realise that logically I was lucky to get asked to join the band at all, so I would have to be so helpful in everything, right, or at least I could be a secretary or something, anything, because I wanted to be a part of it.

“And they knew it. They understood I felt this way. And they were real careful and never made me feel unwanted. Christine very willingly gave me the stage, which I thought was a very cool or a woman to say: “Oh, she’s five years younger than me and I’ve worked for 10 years on the road, killed myself, and here she is, our new frontwoman.’ It was incredibly big of Christine to just move out of the way, because I do tend to kind of animate around and I drive Chris nuts. Crazy.

“Chris will tell you that there were times in the last six or seven years when she was a little jealous. And I swear to God I never knew. Never one comment to the effect of ‘I could really have done without you’. And I’m sure there were times when I’m flying around the stage in my gossamer chiffon where she had to think to herself: ‘Wow, what’s this? Fairy school?’ and never once did she make me feel that. She knew from the beginning that I was real sensitive and that I love her so much that anything she’d say to me would cut like a knife. So she was always very careful.”

http://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/archive/SNart005.html

But, that little but of jealousy hardly belies their obviously incredible friendship that lasts to this day as evidenced by SN's barage of quotes expressing how she misses McVie! AND - CM obviously felt La Nicks' antics were contributing enough to the band so that she could live with them, which is what she said in the Japan interview!!!

:cool:

[teedee]

Speaking of spin... :laugh:

I never claimed that she had an "angry resentment" towards her, I simply said that over the course of the bands history, it would be quite absurd to say that Chris was NEVER jealous or resentful towards Stevie for her antics.

I don't have to "support" my argument, there are plenty of interviews and quotes out there for everyone to look up if they want to. :xoxo:


talking of spinning.

Ever get tired of making statements and then having to go back and explain them. believe me we all get what you mean and say the first time. its when ppl reply that you start to pipe up. i think the only resentment here is that you resent that stevie got more attention than lindsey. hey thats just the kind of thing that happens in show biz. how would you feel if ppl stated well lindsey on this tour is putting himself out there as the look at me star of the band? oh then you would say he is getting his do of attention because of his talent. Everyone has goals, and i think the members of the band all got where they are because of each other. and those who had success on their own , had success on their own because of their own talent. i truly enjoyed this tour and the performances of all the band members. I dont think for one minute that chris was jealous of stevie. I know it bugged lindsey. ive watched those interviews, but stevie and lindsey were always competitive and i think that is why he felt that way. jmo

[teedee]

IKINW voting it off

[dissention]

But, that little but of jealousy hardly belies their obviously incredible friendship that lasts to this day as evidenced by SN's barage of quotes expressing how she misses McVie! AND - CM obviously felt La Nicks' antics were contributing enough to the band so that she could live with them, which is what she said in the Japan interview!!!

:cool:

And I never said it did. ;) Though I must wonder about their "incredible friendship" since Stevie said she hadn't spoken to Chris in six years around the time SYW came out.

[sodascouts]

The results will be posted in a new thread, which will also serve as the final round thread. :)

[dissention]

talking of spinning.

Ever get tired of making statements and then having to go back and explain them. believe me we all get what you mean and say the first time. its when ppl reply that you start to pipe up. i think the only resentment here is that you resent that stevie got more attention than lindsey. hey thats just the kind of thing that happens in show biz. how would you feel if ppl stated well lindsey on this tour is putting himself out there as the look at me star of the band? oh then you would say he is getting his do of attention because of his talent. Everyone has goals, and i think the members of the band all got where they are because of each other. and those who had success on their own , had success on their own because of their own talent. i truly enjoyed this tour and the performances of all the band members. I dont think for one minute that chris was jealous of stevie. I know it bugged lindsey. ive watched those interviews, but stevie and lindsey were always competitive and i think that is why he felt that way. jmo

Blah blah blah, I know your whole schpeel. Thank god for the ignore function, I finally get to use it. :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

And I never said it did. ;) Though I must wonder about their "incredible friendship" since Stevie said she hadn't spoken to Chris in six years around the time SYW came out.

SPIN and you know it - but that is okay - why should this thread be any different :laugh:

BTW - They both say they parted friends and are still friends and in the SYW interviews SN repeatedly referred to it as that - so . . . :shrug:

[teedee]

O hope everything is okay

AND

Here is one where SN says CM was a little jealous:

Considering they didn’t want her in the first place, “They made me feel wonderful,” she sighs, “and I fell madly in love with all of them immediately, even though I knew in my heart they didn’t really need me. So I’d try to be really good and maybe I’d find a way to be needed there. I didn’t know what else to do. I liked them so much that I was willing to realise that logically I was lucky to get asked to join the band at all, so I would have to be so helpful in everything, right, or at least I could be a secretary or something, anything, because I wanted to be a part of it.

“And they knew it. They understood I felt this way. And they were real careful and never made me feel unwanted. Christine very willingly gave me the stage, which I thought was a very cool or a woman to say: “Oh, she’s five years younger than me and I’ve worked for 10 years on the road, killed myself, and here she is, our new frontwoman.’ It was incredibly big of Christine to just move out of the way, because I do tend to kind of animate around and I drive Chris nuts. Crazy.

“Chris will tell you that there were times in the last six or seven years when she was a little jealous. And I swear to God I never knew. Never one comment to the effect of ‘I could really have done without you’. And I’m sure there were times when I’m flying around the stage in my gossamer chiffon where she had to think to herself: ‘Wow, what’s this? Fairy school?’ and never once did she make me feel that. She knew from the beginning that I was real sensitive and that I love her so much that anything she’d say to me would cut like a knife. So she was always very careful.”

http://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/archive/SNart005.html

But, that little but of jealousy hardly belies their obviously incredible friendship that lasts to this day as evidenced by SN's barage of quotes expressing how she misses McVie! AND - CM obviously felt La Nicks' antics were contributing enough to the band so that she could live with them, which is what she said in the Japan interview!!!

:cool:


if that quote is stevies thoughts, thats not chistines words, just what stevie thinks christine may have felt or thought. i dont thinks chris was jealous, she is kind of like john, someone who doesnt care to be in the spot light.and there is nothing wrong with wantin to be in the spot light, and nothing wrong with not wantng it. they all have a roll to play and they all play their due parts.

[dissention]

SPIN and you know it - but that is okay - why should this thread be any different :laugh:

BTW - They both say they parted friends and are still friends and in the SYW interviews SN repeatedly referred to it as that - so . . . :shrug:

That still doesn't negate the fact that she hadn't spoken to her "best friend" for six years. :laugh: You don't just wonder a teensy bit about the "best friend" claim these days?

[teedee]

Blah blah blah, I know your whole schpeel. Thank god for the ignore function, I finally get to use it. :xoxo:



now if you could only use it . we know your schpeel to all too well, your kind of transparent.

[strandinthewind]

That still doesn't negate the fact that she hadn't spoken to her "best friend" for six years. :laugh: You don't just wonder a teensy bit about the "best friend" claim these days?

No - because I did not speak to mine for several years and it was just because he had a new family - I was extremely busy, etc. But, the friendship never ended, he was in my thoughts almost daily, etc. It just remained and then was strong again when we hooked back up. So, I have been there. Also, there are several people in college that I have not spoken to, for essentially the same reasons, in at least ten years, that I still consider close friends. But, people are diferent i guess :shrug:

[dissention]

But, people are diferent i guess :shrug:

Must be. ;)

[teedee]

That still doesn't negate the fact that she hadn't spoken to her "best friend" for six years. :laugh: You don't just wonder a teensy bit about the "best friend" claim these days?



now by dis making that statement about stevie and chris not being in touch. i mean what does he think his posts look like, ? he is just trying to put stevie down in some way , like what kind of friend i s she.. oh please, no im not the tiny bit curious about that. things happen, life goes on. it doesnt matter to me one way or another. its so obvious that you are just an instigator to make things negative about stevie so you can carry on a useless conversation for yourself. so you can get off by fighting and spinnin, blah blah blah....

[irishgrl]

Dissention: can you please articulate your position?

it appears to be something re: the relationship/competition between Stevie and Christine?

if so.........here's my 2cents:
Stevie had that undeniable something that Chris most assuredly DIDNT have.
call it sex appeal or charisma, Stevie had it IN SPADES. Chris may have been a lady and took a back seat but I dont know that it was entirely painless.....as a woman, I know that it is a hard thing to watch other men CONSTANTLY pay attention to another woman, especially if you are pretty in your own right (whic Chris IS). And, in the horse race between their songs, Chris' songs were predictable pop songs, whilst Stevies songs were otherworldly and the added angst between her and Lindsey upped the sales factor. They BOTH are talented, but Stevie is more obviously extroverted than Chris........and, though its hard to define, Stevie DOES have a magical presence that Chris does NOT. Chris is a pop songstress, and Stevie is a poet. Stevie's poetry reaches across the spectrum of human emotion and Chris' songs seem to only have one focus.

[teedee]

That still doesn't negate the fact that she hadn't spoken to her "best friend" for six years. :laugh: You don't just wonder a teensy bit about the "best friend" claim these days?



if those are things you are curious about, thats kind of sad, lol. who cares.

[amber]

That still doesn't negate the fact that she hadn't spoken to her "best friend" for six years. :laugh: You don't just wonder a teensy bit about the "best friend" claim these days?
That's kinda how Gemini's are....my best friend has Stevie's birthday, and i'm the same sign as Chris...Me and Rain won't talk for months, and she doesn't really care, then when she sees me, it's like we still love each other and whatnot...maybe stevie means best friend as in the one she likes "best" and the one she'll always love no matter how much they see each other....
AMber

[Johnny Stew]

If it matters any, on her website, Christine says that she often emails Mick and Stevie.

Of course, I don't picture Stevie flipping on her PC at the start of the day, and checking her email, but I'm sure someone prints them out for her and she reads and responds to them.

At any rate, there are a lot of ways to communicate with someone, without "talking" to them.

And, for the record, the person I consider my "best friend," is a girl I've known since we were both little kids. We don't talk every day or every week. In fact, sometimes months will go by before we have the chance to talk.
But, we still consider each other our best friend, and we know that, no matter how much time goes between our phone calls, we'll always pick right back up where we left off.

I think that's a truer sign of friendship than the amount of times you call each other. :nod: :)