Superbowl Mac '93 video

[OldTimer]

Apologies if this has been already posted! I thought I'd found all the FM videos there were on youtube, but I just stumbled across one I hadn't, Say You Love Me from the 1993 Superbowl. Stevie's gone, but I guess Rick hadn't left yet? Christine looks gorgeous in her shades.



(It's almost painful to read the youtube comments - I still can't understand the fierce animosity many of these fans have for Rick & Billy. )

[SteveMacD]

Stevie was supposed to play it, but backed out at the last minute. She and Rick were no longer members of Fleetwood Mac at that point, but were coming back because the band was still riding high from the inauguration.

[sjpdg]

Originally Posted by OldTimer

Apologies if this has been already posted! I thought I'd found all the FM videos there were on youtube, but I just stumbled across one I hadn't, Say You Love Me from the 1993 Superbowl. Stevie's gone, but I guess Rick hadn't left yet? Christine looks gorgeous in her shades.



(It's almost painful to read the youtube comments - I still can't understand the fierce animosity many of these fans have for Rick & Billy. )

Thanks for the posting!!

I'm with you again OldTimer. I just have never understood why there was so much animosity toward Rick and Billy. I think perhaps it was because they are sooooo good, and nobody could stand the fact that these two guys brought so much to FM and actually could replace Lindsey, do great renditions of his songs with the band, and contribute their own great material. Doesn't mean that Lindsey is no good, or that he didn't contribute in an immeasurable way to the band. Of course he did. No one in their right mind could argue otherwise. Change is just so hard for some people that they can't accept it.

I also remember people leaving after the Cow Palace show in San Francisco in 1987 on "Tango" tour making comments like, "Lindsey, who?" Rick and Billy blew the roof off that place. It was great. Better than Lindsey, no. Just different and (at the risk of being put in the cross hairs of all the "Rumours" era purists) equally as good in my opinion.

Rick's solo on that is killer!! I remember watching that at the time and thinking, "These guys are kicking AAAASSSSSSSSSS!!!!" As I've mentioned before, this was a major lost opportunity for FM that Rick and Billy didn't stay longer (or permanently) and make a greater impact on the band.

[David]

Originally Posted by sjpdg

Just different and (at the risk of being put in the cross hairs of all the "Rumours" era purists) equally as good in my opinion.

Keep in mind that there are at least two contingents of Macheads who didn't care for the Vito-Burnette years: the contingent you have already identified & a contingent that gave the "new" band every opportunity to impress but just didn't feel it.

I count myself among the latter, largely. To the extent that I like "Behind the Mask" at all, it's because I like the Chris McVie material & vocals. The Vito material is weak, the Burnette material has intermittent charms, & the Nicks material is both weak & poorly sung. Adding drawback to drawback is that Ladanyi muddied the mix.

Onstage, the show was fairly exuberant & on rare occasion even moving, but was also marked by a kind of blandness in the presentation & arrangement of the material. The idiosyncrasies & strong personal styles of the past -- from Green's "Man of the World" to Welch's "Angel" to Buckingham's "Walk a Thin Line" -- were absent. Consequently, those songs that were either the most straightforwardly anthemic ("Go Your Own Way," "Don't Let Me Down Again," "Say You Love Me," "Blue Letter") or the songs that were slimly & nimbly arranged & presented ("Has Anyone Ever Written Anything For You," "I Loved Another Woman") were, by far, the songs that came off the best. Much of the rest of the set always struck me as mere pose & contraption.

[David]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Stevie was supposed to play it, but backed out at the last minute.

Source? Vito's Q&A?

[OldTimer]

You make your point well, David, but I suppose this just proves why there are so many aisles at Tower records -- peoples' tastes will always vary, and that's exactly the way it should be....

Originally Posted by David

The idiosyncrasies & strong personal styles of the past ..... were absent.

That's a very valid statement, but there's another way to look at it....the infighting, the destructive behaviors, and the massive egos were absent (well, okay, the egos weren't entirely gone , but at least the public personal issues ceased to be the main attraction). The band seemed considerably more amicable -- even, heaven forbid, happy -- with a straight-up enjoyment of making terrific music together. And I think it worked pretty damn good live.

Of course, having said all that, I have to wonder why if it was all so amicable, it dissolved so quickly?

I think Rick and Billy had plenty of strong and original work to bring to the table. Unfortunately, the issue seemed to be, how much of that originality were they encouraged/allowed to use? JMHO.

Peace -- OT

[Musicman408]

I wonder how many people in that audience did not know that Stevie had quit the band before this performance.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by OldTimer

That's a very valid statement, but there's another way to look at it....the infighting, the destructive behaviors, and the massive egos were absent (well, okay, the egos weren't entirely gone , but at least the public personal issues ceased to be the main attraction). The band seemed considerably more amicable -- even, heaven forbid, happy -- with a straight-up enjoyment of making terrific music together. And I think it worked pretty damn good live.

I saw BTM once and I've seen boots of a couple of shows and they never seemed especially happy to me. Certainly, there was an exuberance on one or 2 songs when the musicians 'tore it up,' so to speak, but most of the songs seemed to be executed in a perfunctory, workmanlike manner, rather than with zeal or enjoyment. I never thought to myself, "Gee this is a happy band and they sure are having fun."

Michele

[OldTimer]

...they never seemed especially happy to me

Opinions, like musical tastes, will always vary. I never saw a BTM show, so I'm only going on youtube clips, interviews, and press articles -- like this 1987 interview with Christine (talking about the TITN tour).
http://www.elsewhere.co.nz/absolutee...h-the-in-door/

“Rick and Billy are having the time of their lives. They’re great musicians, great singers and really great guys.
This is probably one of the first tours where the ambience in the band has been so wonderful. We don’t have to sneak around the coffee shop to see who’s in there and who isn’t."
....the Mac travelling show is up and running again and they are loving it.
“We pretty much cover the whole gamut of our career and people hardly ever stop clapping.
“We are really loving his tour and it’s rewarding too because the audience is giving us a chance to prove we can do it all over again.”

Sure, maybe that's all BS from Chris, but I still think they were enjoying that 'wonderful ambiance', at least for a while.....

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by OldTimer

Sure, maybe that's all BS from Chris, but I still think they were enjoying that 'wonderful ambiance', at least for a while.....

And from my perspective, there was no wonderful ambience. I think it was a difficult time and they made the most of it and put out a pretty good album (with music that did not make the cut which was also pretty good).

I'm sure she's right that Billy and Rick did enjoy themselves on stage (I think I saw glimpses of that) and were received warmly by the rest of the band. With that I would agree.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by David

Keep in mind that there are at least two contingents of Macheads who didn't care for the Vito-Burnette years: the contingent you have already identified & a contingent that gave the "new" band every opportunity to impress but just didn't feel it.

I count myself among the latter, largely. To the extent that I like "Behind the Mask" at all, it's because I like the Chris McVie material & vocals. The Vito material is weak, the Burnette material has intermittent charms, & the Nicks material is both weak & poorly sung. Adding drawback to drawback is that Ladanyi muddied the mix.

Onstage, the show was fairly exuberant & on rare occasion even moving, but was also marked by a kind of blandness in the presentation & arrangement of the material. The idiosyncrasies & strong personal styles of the past -- from Green's "Man of the World" to Welch's "Angel" to Buckingham's "Walk a Thin Line" -- were absent. Consequently, those songs that were either the most straightforwardly anthemic ("Go Your Own Way," "Don't Let Me Down Again," "Say You Love Me," "Blue Letter") or the songs that were slimly & nimbly arranged & presented ("Has Anyone Ever Written Anything For You," "I Loved Another Woman") were, by far, the songs that came off the best. Much of the rest of the set always struck me as mere pose & contraption.

I entirely agree! I tried hard to like the Behind-the-Mask band, but even when Christine took the lead, the arrangements were so thick and generic I couldn't stomach them to well. Save Me and the title track come closest to something genuine.

[OldTimer]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I couldn't stomach them

Yes, yes, I'm well aware many Mac fans feel that way about the Rick/Billy line-up -- one only has to read the comments posted under the youtube videos to see that quite clearly!

However, a belated Thank You to the Ledge for including a forum here for those of us who do appreciate these guys!

And also to Michele, who always finds and posts the coolest stuff....

[sjpdg]

Originally Posted by OldTimer

Yes, yes, I'm well aware many Mac fans feel that way about the Rick/Billy line-up -- one only has to read the comments posted under the youtube videos to see that quite clearly!

However, a belated Thank You to the Ledge for including a forum here for those of us who do appreciate these guys!

And also to Michele, who always finds and posts the coolest stuff....

Amen Brother!! Amen!!

Those of us who really liked the Vito/Burnette era are apparently a minority on this forum in general. It seems that for many people here, if it's not Buckingham/Nicks, then its crap, which is reeeeeaaallllyy ridiculous!! It's as if no other era of the Mac ever existed prior or since and no other era ever should. To be completely honest, it makes me sick!!

I've always thought the Vito/Burnette era had the possibility of a sort of "new beginning" for Fleetwood Mac, much as the Buckingham/Nicks era had ushered in the same thing at that time. Certainly nothing as earth-shattering as "Rumours" was going to come out of the Vito/Burnette era, but great music was certainly a possibility. Overall, I think BTM is a great disc. It holds together well, the songs are generally good, and all the singers contributed to it. Unlike (dare I say it here?) Tusk, where Lindsey tried to do the entire album himself, play every instrument, and then give it to the band. Talk about arrogance!!

OldTimer, we are a minority to be sure. But we will stick together!!!!

[David]

Originally Posted by sjpdg

Those of us who really liked the Vito/Burnette era are apparently a minority on this forum in general.

Be proud of your minority status! You are a select group, an exclusive enclave! That's a spine-tingling sensation!

It seems that for many people here, if it's not Buckingham/Nicks, then its crap, which is reeeeeaaallllyy ridiculous!!

You didn't read my post above, did you? Or did you, & simply chose to ignore its truths?

It's as if no other era of the Mac ever existed prior or since and no other era ever should. To be completely honest, it makes me sick!!

I guess that Fleetwood Mac followers have their own version of the Hanslick Syndrome.

I've always thought the Vito/Burnette era had the possibility of a sort of "new beginning" for Fleetwood Mac, much as the Buckingham/Nicks era had ushered in the same thing at that time. Certainly nothing as earth-shattering as "Rumours" was going to come out of the Vito/Burnette era, but great music was certainly a possibility.

Great music is always a possibility. But you have to write better songs than "Stand on the Rock" & "Freedom" (a dumb ripoff of lines & phrases from Wilde's "Dorian Gray").

Overall, I think BTM is a great disc. It holds together well, the songs are generally good, and all the singers contributed to it.

You said "overall," which implies that you do in fact have some criticisms of the album. What are your criticisms? What do you think of the sonic qualities of the album? What do you think of the level of songwriting on "Stand on the Rock" or "Freedom"?

[sjpdg]

Originally Posted by David

Be proud of your minority status! You are a select group, an exclusive enclave! That's a spine-tingling sensation!

You didn't read my post above, did you? Or did you, & simply chose to ignore its truths?

I guess that Fleetwood Mac followers have their own version of the Hanslick Syndrome.

Great music is always a possibility. But you have to write better songs than "Stand on the Rock" & "Freedom" (a dumb ripoff of lines & phrases from Wilde's "Dorian Gray").

You said "overall," which implies that you do in fact have some criticisms of the album. What are your criticisms? What do you think of the sonic qualities of the album? What do you think of the level of songwriting on "Stand on the Rock" or "Freedom"?

Hmmmmm. Let me see. At last check, I lived in the United States of America, which means I have a right to an opinion, whether or not it agrees with anybody else's on the planet or not. I also have a right not to have to justify that opinion if I choose not to. That being said, I won't justify my opinions about anything to anyone on this forum. You like what you like and I like what I like. That's what being free to have an opinion is all about.

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about in my previous post. I dared to suggest that something other than Buckingham/Nicks was great Fleetwood Mac music and I've been called to task for it. I dared to suggest that the Vito/Burnette era was at least a good one in the history of the band and I've been called to task for it.

Since you have only chosen to discuss "Freedom" and "Stand On The Rock", I'll take a wild guess and say those are the only ones you have a big problem with. "Freedom" could be better, but so what if that's where Stevie got her lyrics? She's known to pull lyrics from various sources, ie: "Beauty and the Beast". "Stand On The Rock" is a good song in my opinion. I like it. Don't have a problem with it, so what. Seems to fit right in with Vito's songwriting style to me, but again, that's just me expressing my freedom to an opinion. Others, including yourself, might disagree, but again, that's the beauty of living in a relatively free society.

I am proud of my "minority status" in my acceptance and love of the Vito/Burnette era and my continued support of the Mick Fleetwood Blues Band and desire for it to go forward after this not-so-"Unleashed" business is finally over.

Since I am obviously not as highly educated as yourself, please enlighten me as to the Hanslick Syndrome. What is it and why on earth is it at all relevant to a fan site about a rock band?

Any other criticisms of my opinion? I'm happy to field any further questions you may have.