Christine mention in Stevie article

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Sorry, but I've never been under the impression that Christine really wanted to be a part of the SYW process. We've all read and seen the same things over the years. What I came away with is that Christine offered her services to the band, but under a sense of obligation to the band, not a strong desire to work with the band again. I think the only one who might have liked the fact Christine wasn't there was Lindsey, and even then it was more because it let him do things he probably wouldn't have been able to do if she had been there. The others, AT BEST, only appeared to be resigned to the fact she was not there.

Christine has talked A LOT about the pressures that would have been on her had she been a part of that process. The bottom line is that the others went in on SYW under the assumption that they were going to be a working band, which is hard to do if one of the members is semi-retired. It was weird during the "Time" days, and it would have been weird here, too. To put it another way, how is it fair to Mick, John, Lindsey, and Stevie to be giving 100% to the project, but Christine only 50%?

I'm not sure whether Christine wanted to be part of SYW. I'm saying that if she had wanted to it could have been possible to work it out. Lindsey certainly did feel that he had more freedom without her there. Stevie was more than just "resigned" to her not being there, she missed her. That's how this whole thread started because of Stevie's comments about Chris.

If there was another album and if Christine wanted to take part but not tour that wouldn't preclude the others from doing so. They would get bloody well paid for a tour and she wouldn't. That would be fair.

Gail

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Sorry, but I've never been under the impression that Christine really wanted to be a part of the SYW process. We've all read and seen the same things over the years. What I came away with is that Christine offered her services to the band, but under a sense of obligation to the band, not a strong desire to work with the band again. I think the only one who might have liked the fact Christine wasn't there was Lindsey, and even then it was more because it let him do things he probably wouldn't have been able to do if she had been there. The others, AT BEST, only appeared to be resigned to the fact she was not there.

Christine has talked A LOT about the pressures that would have been on her had she been a part of that process. The bottom line is that the others went in on SYW under the assumption that they were going to be a working band, which is hard to do if one of the members is semi-retired. It was weird during the "Time" days, and it would have been weird here, too. To put it another way, how is it fair to Mick, John, Lindsey, and Stevie to be giving 100% to the project, but Christine only 50%?

I know you're gonna think I'm crazy... But I think he wanted her there badly (LB) and when she didn't break.... as they tried several times to have her go one more round with them (tour and album)... Once he realized she wasn't comin back... that's when he said ok... "i'm gonna make it more masculine and we're gonna rock out more"....

I don't think he achieved his statements per se... but that was his take after all was said and done...

[Aisling]

i don't think i've ever definitely read that chris was opposed to working on SYW. i know she didn't want to tour, but that's the extent of it. if everyone had been ok with the idea of her working on the album, but staying behind for the tour, i don't think we would have seen only 50% of chris showing up, especially since what she probably would have contributed would have been tracks that eventually showed up on ITM. i happen to think that album is dynamite, so i would have considered it a job well done on her part if they had happened to show up on fleetwood mac album as opposed to a solo record. of course we can only speculate until someone comes out and says definitely what the case was (she didn't want anything to do with the project vs. she didn't want to tour & the band decided not to allow her on the album). since stevie seems so candid these days, maybe she'll weigh in on what the real situation was eventually!

RE the idea of lindsey originally wanting her there, no, i don't think that's crazy. all of his talk about masculinity and rocking out and blah blah blah seems excessive (to put it mildly), and it wouldn't be far fetched to speculate that it's just to cover what he felt might be missing with chris absent. i have to believe that with all those two have worked on in the past, if he had really felt repressed by christine's artistic bent, it would have come out much sooner than SYW. all this stuff about being held back and now he can do what he really wants to do? if that's true, why would he have had her work on his solo stuff?

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by Aisling

i don't think i've ever definitely read that chris was opposed to working on SYW. i know she didn't want to tour, but that's the extent of it.

RE the idea of lindsey originally wanting her there, no, i don't think that's crazy. all of his talk about masculinity and rocking out and blah blah blah seems excessive (to put it mildly), and it wouldn't be far fetched to speculate that it's just to cover what he felt might be missing with chris absent. i have to believe that with all those two have worked on in the past, if he had really felt repressed by christine's artistic bent, it would have come out much sooner than SYW. all this stuff about being held back and now he can do what he really wants to do? if that's true, why would he have had her work on his solo stuff?

I don't think there's ever been an interview published with any of them stating definitively what the situation was with regards to whether Christine wanted to take part in SYW or whether they were prepared to let her if she wouldn't tour.

I think all the band wanted her to be there but I'm not sure she wanted to and there is still this no tour no record thing which persists.

When it was clear she wasn't going to be there I believe Lindsey came out with the freedom/testosterone crap to hide his disapppointment. They all knew the album would have benefited from her presence but they're hardly likely to say "we've done a new album but it's rubbish without Chris". They put a positive spin on it as you'd expect. I think Lindsey went a little too far in his comments but it does prove my theory that he was disappointed that she wasn't there.

Gail

[macfan 57]

Here's an excerpt from an interview Chris did to promote ITM. It's in the Blue Letter Archives.




"When Fleetwood Mac's new studio album, Say You Will, came out last year, there was one great glaring thing missing – Christine McVie's harmonies and her songs.

Yet here she is with a new solo album, In the Meantime, sounding much more Fleetwood Mac than nearly anything on the Say You Will album.

In fact, that album would have been greatly helped by a few of the songs here. Why didn't anyone take the initiative, to get the two groups together, and make one great album?

"In principle, that would have been a great idea," McVie says. "I'm quite sure they would have liked it, and I think I probably would have quite liked it.

"But I didn't want to end up being beholden or committed to this massive machine anymore," she continues via phone from New York City. "I'm quite aware that it's probably not going to be a commercial success, but that isn't the reason I did it, really."

She notes "I'm better off doing it in my own little way. I kinda get trapped by those guys. I'd feel beholden and guilty if I didn't tour . . . and I didn't want that. You get sucked in and it's difficult to get out. It's like being in the army, Fleetwood Mac."



It sounds to me that her not wanting to tour was the deal breaker. I believe they gave her an ultimatum, either all or nothing & she chose nothing. I think if they had offered her a few songs on the album with no touring, she would have said yes, something similar to TITN with Stevie or Time with Chris.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by macfan 57

It sounds to me that her not wanting to tour was the deal breaker. I believe they gave her an ultimatum, either all or nothing & she chose nothing. I think if they had offered her a few songs on the album with no touring, she would have said yes, something similar to TITN with Stevie or Time with Chris.

1. I didn't get the vibe that she was at all disappointed with how things worked out. What I got is that she would have liked to work with those people, but not really be in the band. Christine isn't the type to hold back when she's angry. If it had ended badly, she would have said as much.

2. Stevie has never really been a creative force in terms of production with Fleetwood Mac. Basically, she gives her stuff to Lindsey, he does his thing, and she layers her voice. Maybe her being on the road and in rehab weren't ideal, but she would have just been there taking up space. When it came time to work the album, Stevie was there.

3. Look at what happened with Lindsey during TITN. For that matter, read HER comments about the situation during that time. It IS like an army, and she knew the score.

Originally Posted by Aisling

i don't think we would have seen only 50% of chris showing up,

If she wasn't part of the tour, it would have been only 50%, in that she would really only been 1/2 a member of Fleetwood Mac (a part of the recording entitiy, but not the touring entity). It really didn't work during "Time," and I'm not sure it would have worked on SYW, though the album itself would have been better.

Originally Posted by Aisling

RE the idea of lindsey originally wanting her there, no, i don't think that's crazy. all of his talk about masculinity and rocking out and blah blah blah seems excessive (to put it mildly), and it wouldn't be far fetched to speculate that it's just to cover what he felt might be missing with chris absent. i have to believe that with all those two have worked on in the past, if he had really felt repressed by christine's artistic bent, it would have come out much sooner than SYW. all this stuff about being held back and now he can do what he really wants to do? if that's true, why would he have had her work on his solo stuff?

Marketing. But, I've always rolled my eyes with Lindsey's masculinity comments, since he's really one of the most effeminate straight men I've ever seen. His songs might have had a little extra edge, but that doesn't translate into masculinity. Greg Allman...now THERE'S a masculine dude!

[Gailh]

[QUOTE=SteveMacD;692444]
"Stevie has never really been a creative force in terms of production with Fleetwood Mac. Basically, she gives her stuff to Lindsey, he does his thing, and she layers her voice. Maybe her being on the road and in rehab weren't ideal, but she would have just been there taking up space. When it came time to work the album, Stevie was there.
If she wasn't part of the tour, it would have been only 50%, in that she would really only been 1/2 a member of Fleetwood Mac (a part of the recording entitiy, but not the touring entity). It really didn't work during "Time," and I'm not sure it would have worked on SYW, though the album itself would have been better."

I think MacFan made a valid point about the TITN situation. Stevie was allowed to be only a 1/2 member during that time. I simply don't see the difference.

It probably boils down to what you'd rather see - an FM album with Christine on it and no tour or an FM without Christine and a tour. I know where my vote lies but I'm probably in the minority of FM fans.

Gail

[SteveMacD]

[QUOTE=Gailh;692454]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think MacFan made a valid point about the TITN situation. Stevie was allowed to be only a 1/2 member during that time. I simply don't see the difference.

Stevie is a singer and songwriter. She wrote two songs, sang lead vocals on three, and harmony on the others. She played her role on the album. Minimal though it may have been, she WAS a part of the recording process, and certainly part of the touring process. It was a similar situation with "Mirage," as the band had been working on that album, too, while she was working "Belladonna." The only difference there was scale.

[Gailh]

[QUOTE=SteveMacD;692456]

Originally Posted by Gailh

Stevie is a singer and songwriter. She wrote two songs, sang lead vocals on three, and harmony on the others. She played her role on the album. Minimal though it may have been, she WAS a part of the recording process, and certainly part of the touring process. It was a similar situation with "Mirage," as the band had been working on that album, too, while she was working "Belladonna." The only difference there was scale.

"I wanted you to sing on it too" Chris said in measured tones that signalled she was furious, "but you weren't here. In fact, we've been working for a year and you were only with us for a couple of days. Now why don't you just say you're sorry and we'll work it out?" Quite gracefully Stevie capitulated in front of the whole band and we gleefully layered her vocals into the mix of the album.

Two days and then another few more to add some vocals.

That's not being part of the recording process. Being part of it involves a lot more commitment than that.

I still think it is possible for Christine to take part in a future FM album (if they ever get round to recording one before they get too old and always assuming she would want to) and not tour. The way Stevie is talking it might be the only way another FM gets done. If Mick feels that's the case then he'll make it happen. He would do whatever it takes to get FM working again. For SYW he needed Lindsey. For a subsequent album he might find he needs Christine.

Gail

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Gailh

I think MacFan made a valid point about the TITN situation. Stevie was allowed to be only a 1/2 member during that time. I simply don't see the difference.
Gail

My understanding of the TITN sessions was that the band would have invited Stevie to help them record the songs as soon as she could but that she was at Betty Ford. In fact, in his book, Mick suggests various members of the band (including Chris) were annoyed with her for her lack of involvement.

Nonetheless, in terms of the band's machinery (the FM Army), I assumed everyone was much more pleased to have a fully functioning Stevie on tour than an absent one who worked day and night on the studio album. The band makes its real $ on the tours.

But you are right, Gail, if the landscape changes and Mick realizes certain concessions have to be made to accomodate another Mac outing he may say "Gosh, I really need Chris more than ever" and do what she wishes.

[Aisling]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

If she wasn't part of the tour, it would have been only 50%, in that she would really only been 1/2 a member of Fleetwood Mac (a part of the recording entitiy, but not the touring entity). It really didn't work during "Time," and I'm not sure it would have worked on SYW, though the album itself would have been better.

i guess what i meant was that i don't really see touring as anything more than a money making venture at this point, so to me, the entirety of fleetwood mac as artists has to do with their studio work. i could care less if i see them in concert ever again. they do the same set list over and over, save for a the occasional "surprise" song, and that doesn't seem very creatively fluid to me. i don't see any difference between her having been on SYW but not touring and lindsey being on TITN and not touring (save for the fact that he pissed everyone off by not being up front about it from the beginning). so to me, and it's just my opinion, if you show up for the recording of the album and kick it out of the park, that is 100%.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Marketing. But, I've always rolled my eyes with Lindsey's masculinity comments, since he's really one of the most effeminate straight men I've ever seen. His songs might have had a little extra edge, but that doesn't translate into masculinity. Greg Allman...now THERE'S a masculine dude!

Originally Posted by Gailh

It probably boils down to what you'd rather see - an FM album with Christine on it and no tour or an FM without Christine and a tour. I know where my vote lies but I'm probably in the minority of FM fans.

well i would vote the same as you! i don't know if that's necessarily a minority position though. maybe we should do a poll.

Originally Posted by Gailh

"I wanted you to sing on it too" Chris said in measured tones that signalled she was furious, "but you weren't here. In fact, we've been working for a year and you were only with us for a couple of days. Now why don't you just say you're sorry and we'll work it out?" Quite gracefully Stevie capitulated in front of the whole band and we gleefully layered her vocals into the mix of the album.

what is this from? i've never seen it before.

[macfan 57]

Originally Posted by Aisling

what is this from? i've never seen it before.

Gail's quote is from Mick's book.

[macfan 57]

Originally Posted by Gailh

It probably boils down to what you'd rather see - an FM album with Christine on it and no tour or an FM without Christine and a tour. I know where my vote lies but I'm probably in the minority of FM fans.
Gail

I vote for a FM album with Chris & no tour. I've always put albums ahead of live concerts. That goes for any of my favorite artists, not just Christine/Fleetwood Mac.

[Aisling]

Originally Posted by macfan 57

Gail's quote is from Mick's book.

ahh yes, the book that i have STILL not read. this summer i'm going to make it required reading material. i bet it's a great "day at the beach" book!

[macfan 57]

Originally Posted by Aisling

ahh yes, the book that i have STILL not read. this summer i'm going to make it required reading material. i bet it's a great "day at the beach" book!

I think it's a fun read, unless you're a Lindsey Buckingham fan.

Alot of people on this board didn't like the book. But, both Bob Welch & John McVie said that it was by and large accurate. That's good enough for me.