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  #301  
Old 02-21-2005, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
There is some confusion, too, about what it means to be a chiffonhead. A chiffonhead isn't synonymous with a Stevie lover. "Chiffonhead" is a sarcastic derivative of "Machead," & it was originally used to denote a type of Stevie fan who continually & inappropriately invoked the trappings of Stevie's image (the faeries, the unicorns, the stars, the fog, the magick, the pouty looks, the long white gowns, the New Age crystals) in their own lives & interactions with other fans. Chiffonheads were (are?) the people who talked to you -- with a straight face -- about the spirits speaking to them & who signed their letters & e-mail to you with "Much love" or "Magick unto ye" or "blessed be" or any number of silly phrases from Stevie's brand of Wicca & who addressed one another as "Angel" & who liberally peppered their conversation (such as it is) with lines from Stevie Nicks songs & interviews & who often turned into werewolves at the slightest artistic or musical criticism of Stevie herself. Such people did exist, regardless of whether you choose to believe it, & it was my experience that they existed in large numbers, & I don't need anybody telling me that I exaggerate it or concoct it or see it in a bad dream. Some of those people were extremely nasty (there's one in Kentucky who has alienated virtually the entire fan world for numerous reasons, & another one actually prevented a song from being included on a Stevie Nicks album after he stole it).

When I speak scornfully of "chiffonheads," those are the people I'm referring to -- not just anyone who happens to love Stevie.
Thank you, David. This is the first time I've ever read a detailed explanation for the contempt many older Mac fans seem to have for Stevie's particular faction of fans. A contempt that I had always been left to assume encompassed the whole of her fan community.

I caught on pretty early in my online interactions that "Chiffonhead" was not a term of endearment... but without knowing the full story, the sarcasm behind it always seemed unjustifiably malicious to me.
I've certainly seen hints towards the reasons, but I've never known the full explanation.

I'd still venture to say that some of the rancor directed at Stevie's fans is heavy-handed at times... I see what seems to be a lot (but, admittedly, much of it could be a matter of my own perception) of "guilt by association."
We're not all greedy and opportunistic, or vapid head-cases who need to be talked to like a slow-learning child. Not to mention how often Stevie's fans are treated like mindless lemmings who are oblivious to Stevie's faults (which several people are then so kind enough to point out as often as possible), while fans of other members in the band often exhibit equally passionate views of their faves with little-to-none of the same derisive treatment. Certainly those fans definitely exist, but Stevie doesn't have a monopoly on them... so I never understood the double-standard.

I should say, David, that you're one of the people who've always seemed most inclined to treat people as individuals, rather than as a collective stereotype... which is yet another thing I've always respected about you.

Anyway, I'm glad that I now know exactly WHY many of Stevie's fans are viewed with a jaded eye, and, in the case of those who've burned a lot of bridges with inexcusable behaviour, I can see how it's completely justified.
It makes perfect sense now, in context.
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  #302  
Old 02-21-2005, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by David
People like this have always existed in the fan world. The longer the time one has spent in the fan world, the more people like this one has seen in action.

The only way to avoid the rotten ones is to avoid the good ones, too, & I've never chosen to do that. There are too many cool, funny, generous fans around to avoid the whole world, as far as I'm concerned.
It's funny, but I've been a part of the online fan community since 1996/97, but apparently I've been far more insulated in my experiences... somehow... than I ever would have thought.
I was burned once early on by someone I trusted and shared a little too much personal info with, but after that turned around and bit me in the butt, I've been careful to get to know people really well before taking them into my confidence, or having any kind of dealings with them.

So I guess aside from that one bad experience, it seems that I've been EXTREMELY lucky in regards to the people in the fan community that I've developed relationships and friendships with.
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  #303  
Old 02-21-2005, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by GardenStateGirlie
Oh Dee...I know you don't care for it. You don't like what it stands for, you don't like the fact that we "accepted members" of the Fleetwood Mac community discuss this in an open forum. Yet, everyone would have a massive Texas-sized coronary if membership to the board were on a controlled basis
Dee? I don't like the bashing that goes on and I don't think I'm alone in that. There have been many people who have stated the same thing time and time again, both here on the Ledge and over on the BN board. No one would give a crap if Nancy took the board private. If you wanted to belong you would join. I don't think anyone would have any type of coronary if those theories, speculation and downright bashing were to be made private. The fans who do have a problem with them object because they are public.


Quote:
Can we all agree to disagree? You're not going to like where some of the topics go on the BN board just as I said earlier in the thread, I might not like the direction some threads go here on The Ledge. Does that mean I'm going to stop talking about things because some people tend to get out of hand? Probably not. Whether it's on that board or done privately, you'd still object to it and you've told me as much.
I don't have a problem agreeing to disagree. But it seems that Kelly is the only one who is constantly bringing it up here at the Ledge and complaining about what's said about Stevie, what you can say on which board, what you can say when speculating about Stevie's songs that might be about Lindsey, etc. I could dig out a few recent ones but you'd have to be blind to not see them.. People always ignore her because it's obvious what she's trying to do or infer. This time a few people didn't like her generalizing the entire Ledge board. What started all this in this thread was her comments and sensitivity and her insinuating that people were generalizing the BN board as rabid chiffon heads. No one was going to start complaining about BN here and the comments made were only to say that the same could be made about the BN board, or any board for that matter. Normally when I read her comments I just ignroe them, but she made a few the other day about the blue board and some other things and this time I was just tired of her generalizations and double standard. I haven't told you anything and no one can object to something they don't see.

Quote:
You know that I have personally objected to some of the topics as has Nancy, moderators, and other fans as well. However, if a newbie comes along, threads are ressurected and discussion is resumed. I don't know what else to say without starting some ridiculous discussion. The **** pot doesn't need to be stirred again and things have been running smoothly without discord over there. Let's not make the problems with the topics discussed on BN a problem on The Ledge, especially in a thread that has very little and perhaps nothing to do with the topic of the state of his marriage and his family.
Please let's stop blaming what has been done on the BN board on newbies and some young misguided fans. I've seen you object to a few over the top fans who goad other fans over at the BN board. But for the most part, you have rarely jumped in to a lot of the over the top comments and threads. To be honest, your post on the BN site about Stevie, Lindsey and Kristen's relationship after the house was put up for sale was as out there as many of the others. As I stated in another post earlier today, it depends on your definition of over the top. You think it's fine because it's speculation and you don't seem to do it with the same amount of cattiness as others on that board, but you've hardly commented on over the top nasty comments and threads over the last few years made by many members. There are many reasons why you might not comment, but one could be because you don't see them as over the top or out of line. Or maybe you don't want to ridicule people who you hang with or your friends. . It's not important, but please lets stop blaming what most of us were talking about on the young newbies, that's just not true. I used the most extreme examples, but there are plenty that fall just shy of those but I didn't bring them up because the point I was making was about extremes.

If this **** pot doesn't need to be stirred again, maybe you should be talking to Kelly and tell her to stop lighting the fire under these pots here on the Ledge and throw away her big spoon. Kelly took us down this road, it had died down until highwaywoman didn't want to, or just plain didn't understand the point I was trying to make. I know why I posted what I did and who could give a **** where Mathew posts? If Kelly wants to keep playing such a sensitive soul about what said about Stevie, maybe she'll jump in like you do on BN the next time someone posts something way out of line or humiliating to the people involved.

If you want to PM me about this you can, but I'm not going to keep defending what I said in my original post in this thread because I think most people understood it. It's boring and this place has never been about bashing the BN site and airing their dirty laundry here.
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  #304  
Old 02-21-2005, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Cour
Dee? I don't like the bashing that goes on and I don't think I'm alone in that. There have been many people who have stated the same thing time and time again, both here on the Ledge and over on the BN board. No one would give a crap if Nancy took the board private. If you wanted to belong you would join. I don't think anyone would have any type of coronary if those theories, speculation and downright bashing were to be made private. The fans who do have a problem with them object because they are public.




I don't have a problem agreeing to disagree. But it seems that Kelly is the only one who is constantly bringing it up here at the Ledge and complaining about what's said about Stevie, what you can say on which board, what you can say when speculating about Stevie's songs that might be about Lindsey, etc. I could dig out a few recent ones but you'd have to be blind to not see them.. People always ignore her because it's obvious what she's trying to do or infer. This time a few people didn't like her generalizing the entire Ledge board. What started all this in this thread was her comments and sensitivity and her insinuating that people were generalizing the BN board as rabid chiffon heads. No one was going to start complaining about BN here and the comments made were only to say that the same could be made about the BN board, or any board for that matter. Normally when I read her comments I just ignroe them, but she made a few the other day about the blue board and some other things and this time I was just tired of her generalizations and double standard. I haven't told you anything and no one can object to something they don't see.



Please let's stop blaming what has been done on the BN board on newbies and some young misguided fans. I've seen you object to a few over the top fans who goad other fans over at the BN board. But for the most part, you have rarely jumped in to a lot of the over the top comments and threads. To be honest, your post on the BN site about Stevie, Lindsey and Kristen's relationship after the house was put up for sale was as out there as many of the others. As I stated in another post earlier today, it depends on your definition of over the top. You think it's fine because it's speculation and you don't seem to do it with the same amount of cattiness as others on that board, but you've hardly commented on over the top nasty comments and threads over the last few years made by many members. There are many reasons why you might not comment, but one could be because you don't see them as over the top or out of line. Or maybe you don't want to ridicule people who you hang with or your friends. . It's not important, but please lets stop blaming what most of us were talking about on the young newbies, that's just not true. I used the most extreme examples, but there are plenty that fall just shy of those but I didn't bring them up because the point I was making was about extremes.

If this **** pot doesn't need to be stirred again, maybe you should be talking to Kelly and tell her to stop lighting the fire under these pots here on the Ledge and throw away her big spoon. Kelly took us down this road, it had died down until highwaywoman didn't want to, or just plain didn't understand the point I was trying to make. I know why I posted what I did and who could give a **** where Mathew posts? If Kelly wants to keep playing such a sensitive soul about what said about Stevie, maybe she'll jump in like you do on BN the next time someone posts something way out of line or humiliating to the people involved.

If you want to PM me about this you can, but I'm not going to keep defending what I said in my original post in this thread because I think most people understood it. It's boring and this place has never been about bashing the BN site and airing their dirty laundry here.
Is this going to be a Jets vs Sharks kind of thing? Can I be Anita?

Romy
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  #305  
Old 02-21-2005, 07:28 PM
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Dee. AKA Deezy. Yes, It doesn't take a rock scientist to figure that one out. Why? You're the only person who loves to see someone make a statement in our fandom so you can go through your archives and back it up with the plethora of files more than likely saved on your hard drive and let them know they've said that, are contridicting themselves, etc.

And no, when you see a comment that you don't agree with whether it be here or elsewhere, you don't ignore it. You aren't now and you haven't for the past year. You said you couldn't wait until this tour was over so you could stop having to patrol. Tours over. Guess what...most people other than a handful of us could care less whether or not Lindsey and Stevie are a couple whether it be on this board or somewhere else.

As for my lack of responsiveness to certain threads. Perhaps i've rarely jumped in a lot because I either find them that over the top, I simply don't care OR I have a life and choose not to piss it away 24/7 on making it my lifes mission to patrol a board that isn't my own. As far as my "OUT THERE" statements regarding the sale of his house go, If anything, my posts have always been thought out and handled in a matter that wasn't terribly offensive (or have you got a boatload of posts from the past year that say otherwise?) and were never "OUT THERE." Why even bring that up? You're backpeddling.

Oh, and PS - I have talked to Kelly but she can say and do what she wants just as everyone else can...and no one can change that...not even someone patrolling the boards unless it's the moderators. I don't mean to be rude but i've had quite enough. Feel free to e-mail me...it's not like you don't know the address.

:scurries off to find a cure for cancer:
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  #306  
Old 02-21-2005, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Serrart
Is this going to be a Jets vs Sharks kind of thing? Can I be Anita?

Romy
Only if you sing for me
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  #307  
Old 02-21-2005, 07:50 PM
Cour Cour is offline
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Originally Posted by GardenStateGirlie
Dee. AKA Deezy. Yes, It doesn't take a rock scientist to figure that one out. Why? You're the only person who loves to see someone make a statement in our fandom so you can go through your archives and back it up with the plethora of files more than likely saved on your hard drive and let them know they've said that, are contridicting themselves, etc.

And no, when you see a comment that you don't agree with whether it be here or elsewhere, you don't ignore it. You aren't now and you haven't for the past year. You said you couldn't wait until this tour was over so you could stop having to patrol. Tours over. Guess what...most people other than a handful of us could care less whether or not Lindsey and Stevie are a couple whether it be on this board or somewhere else.

As for my lack of responsiveness to certain threads. Perhaps i've rarely jumped in a lot because I either find them that over the top, I simply don't care OR I have a life and choose not to piss it away 24/7 on making it my lifes mission to patrol a board that isn't my own. As far as my "OUT THERE" statements regarding the sale of his house go, If anything, my posts have always been thought out and handled in a matter that wasn't terribly offensive (or have you got a boatload of posts from the past year that say otherwise?) and were never "OUT THERE." Why even bring that up? You're backpeddling.

Oh, and PS - I have talked to Kelly but she can say and do what she wants just as everyone else can...and no one can change that...not even someone patrolling the boards unless it's the moderators. I don't mean to be rude but i've had quite enough. Feel free to e-mail me...it's not like you don't know the address.

:scurries off to find a cure for cancer:
This never ends. I am not Dee or Deezy. I don't have anything saved to my hardrive. The only posts I have ever saved or collected was when Jonathan Todd screwed Fleetwood Mac fans. When they were literally washing that board clean of what had been done I went back and saved whatever I could to show to the band members and management. So your suggestion that I have any post from BN or Kelly's here at the Ledge is wrong. There's a great search engine here and that's what I meant by referencing her posts.

I only suggested you talk to Kelly since she's the one who started this and since it seemed you were trying to put an end to BN's dirty laundry being posted here, I thought I'd make the suggestion. Like I said, most people, myself included, ignore her because they don't give a ****, so if she wants to keep lighting fires and stirring the pot here on the Ledge, have fun!


I don't need to partrol any boards and since you use your time for such noble purposes as curing cancer, you can re-read your speculative post about Lindsey's relationship with his wife and Stevie that you posted in that house selling thread and remember how you've been spending your time analyzing the tiniest details about their relationship (or lack of) based on concert reviews and fan gossip.

These are usually the types of threads I get bored and annoyed with when a few people argue about something and don't know when to end it. If you want to PM me you can but it would be nice to spare everyone else this deadbeat topic.
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  #308  
Old 02-21-2005, 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by Cour:

Quote:
If this **** pot doesn't need to be stirred again, maybe you should be talking to Kelly and tell her to stop lighting the fire under these pots here on the Ledge and throw away her big spoon.
Rock on, **** pot woman
Take your silver spoon
And stir your ****....

(Sorry, I couldn't resist - and that is not directed at anyone in particular, I just wanted to inject some humour into this thread - continue debating!)
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  #309  
Old 02-21-2005, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Livia
Originally posted by Cour:



Rock on, **** pot woman
Take your silver spoon
And stir your ****....

(Sorry, I couldn't resist - and that is not directed at anyone in particular, I just wanted to inject some humour into this thread - continue debating!)

+10'd. But, it's been taken to PM's...cause Romy won't sing to me
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  #310  
Old 02-21-2005, 08:20 PM
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Sunflowers... and your face facinate me....
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  #311  
Old 02-21-2005, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMan


Sunflowers... and your face facinate me....
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  #312  
Old 02-21-2005, 08:33 PM
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Reminds you of Divine, doesn't it?
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  #313  
Old 02-21-2005, 08:55 PM
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Reminds you of Divine, doesn't it?
I suppose, yes. Also of someone with hideous hair. *shudder*
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  #314  
Old 02-21-2005, 09:00 PM
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I suppose, yes. Also of someone with hideous hair. *shudder*
The minute I saw it, it reminded me of an outtake from Pink Flamingos.
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Old 02-21-2005, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dissention
The minute I saw it, it reminded me of an outtake from Pink Flamingos.
Perhaps if i'd seen that movie, i would have had the same experience. As it was, I thought "man in drag, and ugly drag at that!"
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