Seeds We Sow -- First Impressions

[Regina]

Art is subjective. Calling something an "artistic fail," is a way-too general term, in my opinion. But I'm not calling you out on your reactions. It's no more valid/invalid than anyone else's. That's the beauty of all forms of art.

But I think it's a bit much to suggest that someone who had prior substance abuse issues might be "medicated to the gills," simply because you don't like the way he speaks. And, for the record, I don't care for the canned speeches, either. But I'm not accusing him of being a drugged-out zombie. I think there is NO evidence of this at all. The physical stamina of one of the live shows + age + medication would have sent him to the hospital at the very least.

He is who he is. I watched a hell of a lot of his old interviews. He was repeating himself even then. It's who he is. I don't care for that but...I don't think those speeches are at all geared to repeat customers.

[Fiver]

Much as he adores being in the studio, he'd much rather be there on his own -- as he was for whole great hunks of "Tusk" -- than with Stevie, Christine, John and Mick, since "making a Fleetwood Mac album is sort of like making a movie -- everything is thought out on a conscious level, and then second- or third-guessed. The approach I prefer, though, is more like painting. Painters will tell you that they often begin work with one thing in mind, but that, after a while, the work leads them in a completely different direction.

"It's more of a subconscious process. Working that way, I find that I experience the work a lot more intimately. Being that connected can't help but have a vitalizing effect on the music."

- Lindsey Buckingham, Creem Magazine 1983

I'd say he likes to repeat himself is all.

[bangdrum]

He repeats himself, occasionally gets a new phrase to throw in ("painting vs moviemaking" -> "big movie vs independent film" -> "big machine vs little machine", etc), and I think sometimes he's too bitter about Rumours to notice that people actually WANT him to play more than Big Love over and over. I also agree that he didn't really "take any chances" with SWS, but that doesn't make me dislike the album at all (except Stars). He has his own idea of what he's good at and that's what he wants to show off.

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by bangdrum

I think sometimes he's too bitter about Rumours to notice that people actually WANT him to play more than Big Love over and over.

Actually, I think he notices perfectly well that people would like him to play more than Big Love over and over and that noticing that people want him to do that is exactly what he is bitter about.

His position on this doesn't make a lot of sense, though. He claims to want to follow his muse on principle, but seems to cave on that time and time again. He plays GYOW at solo gigs because people want it. So 'playing what people want' is something he is prepared to do - on principle - even when he's 100% the boss - even when he doesn't have to play nice because FM are so conservative. I'm reminded of Lou Reed playing a gig in New York a few years ago, at which he played the audience two hours of experimental jazz. People walked out. Lou was unrepentant. His attitude was: 'You want Walk On The Wild Side? Go home and play it on CD. This is what I'm doing at the moment.'

His role as the enfant terrible is also spurious in any context outside of FM. I mean, really: how edgy do you have to be to look edgy standing next to Stevie Nicks and Christine McVie? His solo stuff, I agree, has more of a legit claim to be out of the mainstream - but guess what? LB doesn't like earning peanuts, so he keeps a foot in the door of the 'big machine'. But why do this, if it's so artistically difficult and diluted and tainted by having to take seriously the opinions of lesser geniuses? The only credible answer is that he has always enjoyed making music with FM more than he admits and/or he's a breadhead just like Mick - and Stevie and John, and oh yeah, The Eagles.

His 'big vs small machine' schtick also has little credibility artistically because it entails zero risk. I mean, you can claim that one enables the other if that is fundamentally true. In other words, if the small machine could not produce anything without the big machine, then that holds water. But after Rumours, LB could have turned his back forever on FM and never worked a day in his life and raised six kids, never mind three, and bought enough Fruit of the Loom t-shirts to sink a battleship. But he didn't. He kept going back. Why? Personally, I think it was because he suffered a massive, years-long crisis of confidence, made worse by Stevie's solo success without him. So he ran, time and again, back to the place where his status as the bringer of genius was secure, and all the time telling himself - and us, ad nauseum - that it was they who needed him.

The truth is, of course, that LB and FM have benefited mutually from their association. And I know Lindsey is finally beginning to say that other people bring things to the party musically in FM, and even in the old days of BN. So kudos for that, LB - and dare we hope that that spirit of mutual respect could carry into some new FM music? I do hope so.

Loz

[Nico]

Originally Posted by sparky

I'll just add this as an addendum.

There are a number of immediate sing along moments from IYD. I am not a Lindsey vs. Stevie guy. But AL, SL, and FWIW have great proven hooks. People want to sing along with those. And they do by the thousands at the shows I have seen. You wanna play Big Machine Lindsey? Or even Little Machine? Write a F--king hook already. Just one.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. Are you saying that because SN has singalong songs/hooks that she outshines LB? Or are you just implying that Lindsey needs to write more songs that people can all sing along to because, frankly, I don't agree with that at all. Look, it's nice if people know your words and can sing along to them, but does that make a huge difference for the quality of the material? At the LB show I went to people were definitely singing along to his classic, well-known songs but his album just dropped. I wasn't expecting people to instantly know all the words to IOOT or TTWLG, but certainly I saw many people singing along to the chorus of both songs. I mean, if music is uplifting and resonates with people the way LB struck the crowd of the show I was at, then he is hitting people in a DIFFERENT but still effective way. His live shows are extraordinary and mind-blowing, so maybe I understand if you want more of the "Steal Your Heart Away" or "Never Going Back Again" stuff, but I think he has plenty of hooks on this album. The two songs I mentioned as well as "End Of Time" are plenty hook-y.

And you don't have to agree with me of course, but my aunt who speaks NO ENGLISH and came from Venezuela a week before I took her to the show was singing along to those three songs in the car and at the show immediately. However, Stevie's new album (which I had in my dash and she took with her to borrow for the week) did nothing for her.

Different strokes.

[bangdrum]

Yeah, I actually agree with a lot of this. What I mean as far as the Big Love shtick is like when he picks the least interesting/challenging new songs from, say, GOS, to play live and thinks that's the most amazing thing he can give his fans, or despite apparently getting regular requests from the audience for Rock Away Blind (this tour) and Bleed To Love Her (every tour including this one), he just keeps saying, "oh, we'll have to rehearse that" and never gets around to playing it. It's not like most of the audience knows his "hit" solo songs any better than his "obscure" solo songs. He would probably get the same level of applause from the majority of casual concertgoers for playing ANYTHING he's ever done solo.

[BTFLCHLD]

"dont listen to my music
dont buy my albums
dont come to my shows
dont listen to my interviews"

[Nico]

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

"dont listen to my music
dont buy my albums
dont come to my shows
dont listen to my interviews"

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

"dont listen to my music
dont buy my albums
dont come to my shows
dont listen to my interviews"

It's not true, but I like it.

Here's my problem: Lindsey Buckingham is threatening yet again to try and get involved in making new music with someone whose work I enjoy and look forward to - viz, Stevie Nicks. So unfortunately that makes where his head is at relevant to me.

[Nico]

Originally Posted by jellyman10

It's not true, but I like it.

Here's my problem: Lindsey Buckingham is threatening yet again to try and get involved in making new music with someone whose work I enjoy and look forward to - viz, Stevie Nicks. So unfortunately that makes where his head is at relevant to me.

Man, what an inconsiderate man! Threatening to make music with someone, you know, and play his average guitar all over the track and add the subpar harmonies. Damn him.

(only kidding with you, but you have to understand how it sounds from my end...just a little...)

[BTFLCHLD]

Originally Posted by jellyman10

Here's my problem: Lindsey Buckingham is threatening yet again to try and get involved in making new music with someone whose work I enjoy and look forward to - viz, Stevie Nicks.

you should be thankful. IYD prettymuch sux.

nico

[Nico]

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

nico

Right back at you bb!

[Regina]

Did you ever stop to think that this IS the music HE likes? This IS the music he doesn't feel he can produce, in his way, for FM? This is the music he wants to present to the world-no hidden agenda involved? I mean, he's not making a fortune on this tour. I would doubt he's making any profit, frankly.

Maybe his head is not with some bizarro world thing that you expect from him and his opinion of cutting edge or small machinery is HIS opinion, which just doesn't happen to match up with yours. (But, surprisingly, matches up with the majority of people here and ... oh, yeah...in the press. But, what do any of US know?)

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by Nico

Man, what an inconsiderate man! Threatening to make music with someone, you know, and play his average guitar all over the track and add the subpar harmonies. Damn him.

(only kidding with you, but you have to understand how it sounds from my end...just a little...)

Of course I understand. It's very like when people visit the Stevie forum only to point out the 'fact' that LB is her best producer. It's just not the way everyone sees it. He's a good producer, yes, and Stevie has provided him with many of his best songs on which to work. But Jimmy Iovine and John Shanks and Dave Stewart have done as well as LB ever has with her songs, and I think there's a real risk that Lindsey will inhibit Stevie artistically if they work together again. So yes, I do see it as him threatening to do it. And actually, I do think his guitar-playing is limited (I'd never call it average). His harmonies are not subpar, I agree, but I do wish he wouldn't weird them out so much.

Loz

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

IYD prettymuch sux.

Read a lot of Oscar Wilde, do you?