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  #46  
Old 12-27-2022, 06:15 PM
cbBen cbBen is offline
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Originally Posted by RockyRaccoon View Post
I hate the way Lindsey was dismissed but also remember that Lindsey survived a major heart attack while Fleetwood Mac was on their tour and in that case it might be a good thing he wasn’t touring himself when that happened. I think in the end, maybe it was better for him to get out of the stressful environment of Stevie, Mick, playing giant arenas, etc. even if the circumstances were less than ideal.
Had Lindsey not been fired, the medical checkup mandated by insurance for a major-artist tour may well have caught the heart problem and prevented emergency surgery. That's exactly what happened to Mick Jagger before the Stones were set to tour. He was able to get a valve replacement instead of more major surgery.
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  #47  
Old 12-27-2022, 11:36 PM
anusha anusha is offline
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It’s strange. I remember how much the fans who loved The Dance were so excited for SYW. I still think there are great moments on the album, in particular the moments that LB/SN worked together on her newer songs — Thrown Down, Destiny Rules, SYW, Illume. Looking back, I think some of the production was too muddy, like Running in the Garden, Smile at You. And Lindsey hadn’t been open to working from the ground up on his songs with Stevie for decades, if ever. Going back to BN, his songs were always somewhat hermetically sealed. While a double album likely didn’t make business sense and may not have been the best artistic choice, as a fan, I was glad to have the music.

As far as how SYW fits into the SN dynamic with the band, it seems much clearer in retrospect. Back in 1996, SN had a dud of an album with Street Angel, and FM was struggling with Time and that lineup. Getting LB back into the fold and doing The Dance was SN’s and FM’s shot at breaking back into the big money touring and albums — it worked for The Eagles with Hell Freezes Over.

Once they had their big payday with The Dance, they decided to do another album but the record selling business fell apart in the intervening 4 years with Napster. If SYW had sold 5 million or 8 million copies off the bat, we would still be listening to Stevie talk about how LB put beauty into her songs like she did when they were promoting The Dance. But once it was clear that the old FM studio Magic and particularly the big sales of FM albums with LB were in the past, there was literally no way Stevie was going to go back to that.

So FM go into the big money touring years, but Stevie has also been very sharp about having a strong image and forging public connections to younger artists. As time goes on, she’s able to build solo ticket sales to similar size venues to what FM could sell. She was willing to do FM to help Mike Campbell and Mick, but now she really has no need to do it and no need to stay connected to FM when she got a lot of backlash for booting Lindsey. The band was over as a creative endeavor after SYW didn’t sell big, but it limped along for the money until the Finn/Campbell tour. I’m sorry Christine had to suffer through this dysfunction and am very sorry she passed away, but I don’t mourn FM. At some point, hanging around all that dysfunction and unkindness isn’t good for anyone.
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  #48  
Old 12-27-2022, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by anusha View Post
Back in 1996, SN had a dud of an album with Street Angel, and FM was struggling with Time and that lineup. Getting LB back into the fold and doing The Dance was SN’s and FM’s shot at breaking back into the big money touring and albums —
In all reality, all Stevie needed to do was quit smoking, drop 25-30 pounds, and have a “comeback” special with relevant artists of the time, like Sheryl Crow and the Foo Fighters. Maybe have Petty and Henley in for good measure. Now, a Fleetwood Mac reunion was more durable, but she would have still been fine without Fleetwood Mac.

Mick, John, Christine, and especially Lindsey needed the reunion more than Stevie. Let’s not forget that OOTC, his masterpiece, tanked pretty badly. He wasn’t commercially viable as a solo artist and needed to be back in Fleetwood Mac. (Let’s not forget that the label stuck one of their producers on him.)
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  #49  
Old 12-28-2022, 01:41 AM
RockyRaccoon RockyRaccoon is offline
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When you think about it, even though Stevie has built this popular cultural image that's almost bigger than Fleetwood Mac, her Fleetwood Mac songs are still what she's mostly known for with the younger generation. Aside from her biggest hits like Edge of Seventeen, Stand Back, Stop Draggin' My Heart Around, but I would say even those songs are not as well known these days as Dreams, Rhiannon, or Landslide. And most of her solo albums in general are pretty much forgotten aside from the first two. Her career is kind of paradoxical in that way.
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  #50  
Old 12-28-2022, 05:30 AM
cbBen cbBen is offline
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And even the second would be forgotten were it not for "Stand Back." (I wonder what Lindsey would have done with that song – and for that matter with "Rooms On Fire," "Blue Denim," "Trouble In Shangri-La," Candlebright," and "Sorcerer.")

As for why Lindsey lacked a viable solo career :

1. In 1991, grunge overtook pretty much all other kinds of music, and particularly the sort Lindsey made.
2. After "Trouble" "Holiday Road" "Go Insane" and "Slow Dancing" (not a hit but it at least it sounds like one) he never again wrote a "hit" (other than "Big Love," which would not have been one as a solo release). For all its merits, Out Of The Cradle lacks a big commercial song.

They all were, but indeed Lindsey more so than Stevie was fortunate FM reformed. I'm sure he felt as though he brought more to the table, and perhaps artistically he did (though once they stopped recording albums, and once the prospect of albums turning a big profit went away, his value diminished); but Stevie brought more commercially (bear in mind that Stevie had Dance Club hits on Trouble In Shangri-La).

The documentary gives the impression that Lindsey doesn't appreciate just how much more. He seems to be of the mind than he is more helping out her than vice-versa.

Last edited by cbBen; 12-28-2022 at 11:07 AM..
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  #51  
Old 12-28-2022, 10:36 AM
Ulpian Ulpian is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
In all reality, all Stevie needed to do was quit smoking, drop 25-30 pounds, and have a “comeback” special with relevant artists of the time, like Sheryl Crow and the Foo Fighters. Maybe have Petty and Henley in for good measure. Now, a Fleetwood Mac reunion was more durable, but she would have still been fine without Fleetwood Mac.

Mick, John, Christine, and especially Lindsey needed the reunion more than Stevie. Let’s not forget that OOTC, his masterpiece, tanked pretty badly. He wasn’t commercially viable as a solo artist and needed to be back in Fleetwood Mac. (Let’s not forget that the label stuck one of their producers on him.)
I’m not sure Christine needed it. After Time she was done. She didn’t really need the money, although I’m sure that was a bonus. She could have just retired to Kent in the mid 90s and it’s entirely possible that we would not really have heard from her professionally again.
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  #52  
Old 12-28-2022, 11:12 AM
Penguin Emeritus Penguin Emeritus is offline
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I’m not sure Christine needed it. After Time she was done. She didn’t really need the money, although I’m sure that was a bonus. She could have just retired to Kent in the mid 90s and it’s entirely possible that we would not really have heard from her professionally again.
I agree she didn't need it financially...if she was worth about 120 million dollars, I'm sure she could pay her bills lol. I think she really needed it emotionally, though, to get herself out of that isolation that had dragged her down towards the end of her 'retirement.' I'm still so glad she came back, and gave herself and the band and all of us that gift.

-Lis
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  #53  
Old 12-28-2022, 11:42 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by Ulpian View Post
I’m not sure Christine needed it. After Time she was done. She didn’t really need the money, although I’m sure that was a bonus. She could have just retired to Kent in the mid 90s and it’s entirely possible that we would not really have heard from her professionally again.
I agree. Had she bounced off The Dance and marketed/toured ITM sooner than 2004, she might have had some true sales and fame. Especially, in Great Britain where she is beloved. But, she was tired, probably didn't need money with her new lifestyle and selling of some rights.

Thank God, she left us a HUGE library of songs. I really miss her. It's been a rough December.
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  #54  
Old 12-28-2022, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cbBen View Post
The documentary gives the impression that Lindsey doesn't appreciate just how much more. He seems to be of the mind than he is more helping out her than vice-versa.
i think you hit the nail on the head - why Stevie was so eager to get rid of Lindsey. he didn't treat her as diva she became. he treated her as someone he grew up with and knew forever.

think about the line in the doc when he says "Karen is telling ME?"
As someone said in this thread, Stevie wanted even her staff to be treated above other FM members.

remember how Stevie always touted how she knew Lindsey before he was this big rock star? the same for him. but she wanted him to treat her as a huge diva she became, not as someone he knew his whole adult life. other than Lindsey, only her parents seemed to have been able to treat her like that, and by the time 2018 rolled around, both of them were gone. and Lindsey was now in her way, daring to not worship her.

one thing though - after the Dance they all became huge for a minute, and Lindsey was on the Stevie level. his return to the band was touted as huge, as well as Stevie-Lindsey dynamic with Silver Springs.

even though Lindsey had solo album almost ready to go, his natural procrastination and need for perfectionism killed his opportunity to ride on the Dance coattails (same as his working on OOTC for years made it come out at the height of the grunge era which killed any chances for that album to be appreciated at the time). Lindsey had horrible timing with many of his endeavors. meanwhile Stevie jumped on FM's newfound coolness and popularity after the Dance, and didn't want to have anything to do with FM, but was riding its coattails for re-building her dead solo career. her (or whoever is managing her career) has had impeccable timing and willingness to try anything that can make her persona more popular. by the time she finally agreed for FM to make an album together (2001 on), her solo career was successfully resurrected while FM huge popularity wave and interest for them blew over.

it's always been interesting to me, how Harry Styles and 1D guys, the same as Lorde, and Haim, were FM fans first, not SN solo fans. FM concert in LA blew up on social media in 2014 because 1D band members including HS were there! unlike other members who just appreciated and acknowledged these young and many of them hugely popular people grew up as their fans, SN put in the work to pursue that connection, and made it look like these people are really just Stevie fans, not FM. she's been building those relationships while basking in the admiration and diva treatment these now hugely popular young people gave her, which was in return giving her a boost and fraction of their popularity.
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  #55  
Old 12-28-2022, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
I agree. Had she bounced off The Dance and marketed/toured ITM sooner than 2004, she might have had some true sales and fame. Especially, in Great Britain where she is beloved. But, she was tired, probably didn't need money with her new lifestyle and selling of some rights.

Thank God, she left us a HUGE library of songs. I really miss her. It's been a rough December.
yes. all 3 songwriters could if they knew what they wanted, were smart enough to understand the plans of other FM members, and seized on the timing. Stevie and her team knew what they wanted to do. Christine was just tired and had enough, and Lindsey was hoping they'll follow FM newfound popularity with FM album, and was willing to put solo career on hold. the result - no FM album at the end of 20th century, and no LB solo album either. the first FM album came out 5 years after the dance. that's a small eternity.
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  #56  
Old 12-28-2022, 03:04 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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And let's not forget what Christine's return did for FMac. Each crowd roared on those first few notes of YMLF. McVie's return was truly great moment for Fleetwood Mac's legacy and history. Vs. what the other person did for their legacy.
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Last edited by jbrownsjr; 12-28-2022 at 03:11 PM..
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  #57  
Old 12-28-2022, 04:14 PM
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And let's not forget what Christine's return did for FMac. Each crowd roared on those first few notes of YMLF. McVie's return was truly great moment for Fleetwood Mac's legacy and history. Vs. what the other person did for their legacy.
Successfully lip syncing Seven Wonders on American Horror Story
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  #58  
Old 12-28-2022, 05:18 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Successfully lip syncing Seven Wonders on American Horror Story
God, I forgot about that embarrassing scene.
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  #59  
Old 12-28-2022, 07:38 PM
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God, I forgot about that embarrassing scene.
Perhaps she should have played her tic tac Rhiannon on the piano instead.
When she's walking through front door its a flashback to Homer walking into the Indy arena in 1987 top hat and all.
Good luck girls!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW4q2RG8zYU
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  #60  
Old 12-28-2022, 07:49 PM
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And let's not forget what Christine's return did for FMac. Each crowd roared on those first few notes of YMLF. McVie's return was truly great moment for Fleetwood Mac's legacy and history. Vs. what the other person did for their legacy.
Hanging out with Vanessa Carlton and Harry Styles and spending her days talking about Tom Petty and Prince instead of writing music (or even just dragging out some old demos) to record with the band, complaining that "nobody buys records" (it is extremely difficult to buy records that aren't being f*king recorded), and preventing the band from going out on a high note.

I can understand why Stevie has had such a problem with Lindsey over the years (I've been reading interviews from 1980-1982 and had to to cringe at a few things Chris, John, Mick, but mostly Lindsey said; imagine reading and hearing that from your own bandmate for 40 years). But would it really have been that difficult for her to put her differences aside, drop the stubbornness, and go into the studio in 2016? What's the point of being in a band if you refuse to make new material with them? If I was that unhappy I'd just leave.
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Last edited by Moz; 12-28-2022 at 07:51 PM..
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