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  #286  
Old 02-06-2021, 01:17 PM
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SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
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Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
I don’t get it. Yesterday you were comparing how a Stevie single charted just as poorly as Lindsey’s Go Insane to show they were both in a similar state of decline...
Again, for the second time, I was talking about ALBUMS not singles.

And that wasn’t my point. I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy that Lindsey made an album that peaked at #45 and nobody acts like he needed Fleetwood Mac to bail him out, but Stevie hits #45 and her career is in the gutter? Stevie didn’t need The Dance any more than Lindsey needed TITN.

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But now you’re siding with the artistic merit of Behind The Mask and Time over the completely obvious fact that Tango was a blockbuster because it involved the original 5.
I have never argued against the classic lineup being a blockbuster band. But, they were all essential contributors and beneficiaries of that lineup. You are absolutely right when you say that TITN was a blockbuster because it involved all five.

And, no, I wasn’t siding with the artistic merit of Behind The Mask and Time over anything else, I was siding with the artistic merit of the core three, especially the songs Christine contributed during those years. I’d put “As Long As You Follow,” “Save Me,” “Behind the Mask,” “Love Shines, “I Do,” “Nights In Estoril,” and “All Over Again” up against anything she ever did during Lindsey’s tenure. They had the songs, the playing chops, and, with Time, the right producer. While those albums are both inconsistent when taken as a whole, the core three were just as creatively on solid ground as ever (weirdly also true of the Welch-era albums).

So, when people say that Lindsey bailed them (Mick, John, and Christine) out, I’m genuinely curious as to how, because those three weren’t drowning creatively and Lindsey’s name and talents as a singer, songwriter, and producer weren’t enough to make him a viable solo artist. Even with heavy promotion, music videos, rave reviews, and a tour, OOTC didn’t do much better than Time (which, reminder, was DOA when it was released). This is why I think the messiah Buckingham thing is so ridiculous.

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When you want to attack Lindsey you dive right into sales. When you’re defending Stevie or Chris it’s all about art suddenly.
LOL!!! When have I ever defended Stevie’s art beyond being a brilliant harmony vocalist? The nicest thing I say about her music, especially during this time, is that her songs were hit or mostly miss after 1984.

Last edited by SteveMacD; 02-06-2021 at 01:20 PM..
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  #287  
Old 02-06-2021, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by anusha View Post
Honestly, I hadn’t been here for a few weeks after my last post and this thread and possibly this fandom is mirroring the toxic cesspool that the band is.
you know, similarly to what you are saying, it's funny to come back here even every few days as i usually do, to kinda de-stress from everyday life and work, and you see this one thread - which has completely nothing to do with the topic dragged on in it - revived on and on.

the thing is, you usually know exactly where everyone stands, who in the band is each person's favorite - whether it is the band as a whole, Christine, Lindsey or Stevie. the only person who abruptly changed their tune around the time when Lindsey firing became public is Steve, and that's i think why so many people were at first so surprised and tried to rationally argue his points. his arguments used to be interesting and leveled.

now most of Steve's arguments became the same as what any regular chiffonhead would argue, except he is still trying to back up his speculations as fully legit with his old reputation of having some cred from [previously?] working in/adjacent to the industry and first and foremost being FM's rhythm section fan.

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  #288  
Old 02-06-2021, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams View Post
I once saw Lindsey in the signature!
No disrespect to Lindsey. My signature pic for like ten years was of the three from the Time booklet. I decided to switch this time after listening to a comp playlist.

I used my last pic after they announced LBCM (in anger that they weren’t calling it Fleetwood Mac).
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  #289  
Old 02-06-2021, 02:23 PM
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the thing is, you usually know exactly where everyone stands, who in the band is each person's favorite - whether it is the band as a whole, Christine, Lindsey or Stevie. the only person who abruptly changed their tune around the time when Lindsey firing became public is Steve, and that's i think why so many people were at first so surprised and tried to rationally argue his points.
I had a view that changed based on a number of facts. Stevie headlined 20K seat arenas while Lindsey and Christine combined not selling 3/4 of 4000 seat amphitheaters was the eye opener. Factor in Lindsey’s “close your eyes and take the money” comment, Mick’s “Stevie and I want to play obscure songs” interview, and The Eagles successfully going on without Glen (which Fleetwood Mac had already done without Lindsey), it wasn’t hard to see what was going to happen.

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his arguments used to be interesting and leveled.

now most of Steve's arguments became the same as what any regular chiffonhead would argue,
Except, I’ve always argued against the ones overstating the importance of any one member, be it Peter, Stevie, or Lindsey. But the Messiah Buckingham sect make it seem like the band couldn’t function without him. My posts show why that’s a massive overstatement.

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except he is still trying to back up his speculations as fully legit with his old reputation of having some cred from [previously?] working in/adjacent to the industry
Huh? I was a roadie/studio assistant for a legendary indie rock band from 2010-16. I’ve been a die-hard Fleetwood Mac fan since 1987 and part of the Fleetwood Mac online community since October, 1995. I ran a Dave Mason website, a Fleetwood Mac website, and archived a Lindsey website, which I think was the first Fleetwood Mac related site on the web.

That said, it was seeing Lindsey in 2006 that made me take a break from Fleetwood Mac. When I got to my car, I asked if Robert Pollard was playing anywhere and vowed I’d only go see Fleetwood Mac again if Christine came back. The prerecords and psychobabble finally broke me.

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and first and foremost being FM's rhythm section fan.
It’s always been about the core three for me.
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  #290  
Old 02-06-2021, 02:42 PM
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LOL there it is again...interjecting the “messiah buckingham” crap that nobody is trying to make this thread about.

Because somebody says Stevie probably benefited nearly the most from the dance, it’s met with responses implying it’s only being said by the “buckingham messiah sect”. Nobody is dismissing you because of your loyalty to “the core three”
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  #291  
Old 02-06-2021, 02:49 PM
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Lol no offense, It’s still hard for me to believe you STILL buy into that whole “Stevie wants to play more obscure songs” thing. They removed the majority of them mid-tour. As somebody who has been a fan for 20 years, the golden rule that everyone knows is to take everything mick and Stevie say with a grain of salt and then consider it a near fabrication.

Most of us can compile a list a mile long of crap those two have promised that have never happened or back peddled 90% of the way on.

Remember the Stevie Vegas shows where she told everyone it was the most elaborate stage she’s ever had. Opening night it’s a black stage and two screens.
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  #292  
Old 02-06-2021, 03:22 PM
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Lol no offense, It’s still hard for me to believe you STILL buy into that whole “Stevie wants to play more obscure songs” thing. They removed the majority of them mid-tour.
Look at her 24KG setlist. Now, apply that to a Fleetwood Mac setlist.

Mick mentioned it in August, 2017 and they actually did it. Whether or not it lasted is irrelevant, they actually did what they said they were going to do.

I saw Louisville (3), Indianapolis, and Columbus (17...Yes, she made the joke), so I got to see them play the obscure stuff and it was amazing. My only gripe was sequencing.
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  #293  
Old 02-06-2021, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Look at her 24KG setlist. Now, apply that to a Fleetwood Mac setlist.

Mick mentioned it in August, 2017 and they actually did it. Whether or not it lasted is irrelevant, they actually did what they said they were going to do.

I saw Louisville (3), Indianapolis, and Columbus (17...Yes, she made the joke), so I got to see them play the obscure stuff and it was amazing. My only gripe was sequencing.
Hahaha oh so Stevie actually mixed up her set for the first time in over a decade and now she’s the czar of unique set lists. Okaaayyyy. Where were you between 2001-2009.

So what now, You want to start tallying how many rare songs in a recent Fleetwood Mac tour vs stevie’s and then (of course) blame it on buckingham?

You’ve been schlepping the same argument for the last three years.
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  #294  
Old 02-06-2021, 04:15 PM
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Oh I forgot...how’s that new Fleetwood Mac album with mike Campbell? You know the one that buckingham was holding them back from making all these years.

Oh that’s right, Stevie won’t even return mike’s call to thank him for the tracks, radio silence(his words, not mine) It never happened. But Mick said so!! It’s a neeeewwww band after all!!!

LMAO
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  #295  
Old 02-06-2021, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
Hahaha oh so Stevie actually mixed up her set for the first time in over a decade and now she’s the czar of unique set lists.
No. Stevie had a successful arena tour and became the czar of...well, pretty much everything Fleetwood Mac.

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Okaaayyyy. Where were you between 2001-2009.
I saw the SYW tour three times, but skipped the other two cash grabs. I don’t consider any song from the 75-87 albums to be obscure. Ignored, but not obscure. The only two songs that I feel I missed were the EP songs.
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  #296  
Old 02-06-2021, 04:52 PM
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Oh I forgot...how’s that new Fleetwood Mac album with mike Campbell?
I was always 50/50 on that. I’ve always said it was more likely than if Lindsey was in the band, and there is that Neil Finn song with everyone but Mick and John, but I also fully believed in their capability to bring in two amazing talents and screw it up.

I think Mick brought those guys in to grease the wheel. It apparently didn’t work.

What pisses me off is how Stevie went on Ellen with Sheryl Crow and talked about how “we make albums because it’s fun!”
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  #297  
Old 02-06-2021, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
Regarding the whole debate about the eb and flow of Stevie's solo career...one thing is for sure.

As said in her own behind the music episode, her solo career was tanked by 1996.

The only reason she bounced back was due to The Dance tour, end of story.

The Enchanted Box set and tour NEVER would of happened without that tour happening first.

It would be interesting to think about where her career would be now if the 1997 reunion hadn't happened.
possibly similar to Pat Benatar and others of her generation - still viable but playing theaters. most performers of her era are now relegated to theaters, unless they also have a big brand name band to carry them through rougher times.

that said, unlike many bands and musicians that are purely musical, Stevie also has a persona that she's selling. it's no accident that part of her publishing deal was also selling her "likeness."

she is also really savvy, jumping on every opportunity to try to further her commercial appeal and further her legendary status - from trying to tie herself to the most commercial pop singers at the time (Swift, Perry, huge FM stans like Lorde and Styles), to making sure to build up her own name every time FM were brought back in the spotlight l(like FM Glee episode, where she visited the set after they put FM back in the conversation). she tries to seize every opportunity and some pan out, others may not - but she's trying. others may be relying on trier PR people and managers, since music is a part where their strength lies, and just waiting and hoping it may all go their way. she's working it, making sure she's a star.

and then AHS came along. AHS made Stevie huge because Mike Murphy presented her to completely new audiences as this legendary rock icon who is worth worshipping, and she has a pretty well-rounded persona consisting of witchy legends, chiffon goth garb, sex symbol past, heavy-living-drug-use-survivor, strong-woman-sticking-it-to-a-man schtick that some AHS-watching young girls bought into.


Stevie may not be nearly at the level of legends like Cher or Dolly Parton, each with their own larger-than-life persona on top of their musical output, acting careers and commercial success, but the state of her persona-driven career is probably more appropriate to compare to people like them than to pure musicians such as other FM members.
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  #298  
Old 02-06-2021, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
I’ve always said it was more likely than if Lindsey was in the band, and there is that Neil Finn song with everyone but Mick and John.

What pisses me off is how Stevie went on Ellen with Sheryl Crow and talked about how “we make albums because it’s fun!”
Stevie's vocals on Find Your Way Back Home were actually done before Coronavirus lockdown and not with Neil present. I'm surprised Stevie didn't ask Neil to work on Show Them the Way with her. I think he would've done that song much better than Greg Kurstin.

When Stevie said that on Ellen, I think she had IYD and Songs from the Vault in her head. With IYD, she could call Mick in to play on a few songs and have her FM connection there. And I know Lindsey was only brought in because Waddy couldn't play Soldier's Angel the way Stevie's demo sounded.

I don't see Stevie going in a studio with FM again. Amd that sucks.
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  #299  
Old 02-06-2021, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams View Post
Stevie's vocals on Find Your Way Back Home were actually done before Coronavirus lockdown and not with Neil present. I'm surprised Stevie didn't ask Neil to work on Show Them the Way with her. I think he would've done that song much better than Greg Kurstin.

When Stevie said that on Ellen, I think she had IYD and Songs from the Vault in her head. With IYD, she could call Mick in to play on a few songs and have her FM connection there. And I know Lindsey was only brought in because Waddy couldn't play Soldier's Angel the way Stevie's demo sounded.

I don't see Stevie going in a studio with FM again. Amd that sucks.
My point with the Neil song is that she was willing to even consider it, especially with Christine and Mike also being involved. I can’t imagine her getting any closer to doing something with Fleetwood Mac if Lindsey was still in the band.

And that does suck. Neil and Mike are probably two of the most accomplished songwriters Fleetwood Mac has ever had and they’re not going to do an album. But, she also refused one final album with the classic lineup.
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  #300  
Old 02-06-2021, 05:50 PM
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My point with the Neil song is that she was willing to even consider it, especially with Christine and Mike also being involved. I can’t imagine her getting any closer to doing something with Fleetwood Mac if Lindsey was still in the band.
Even getting her to do the 3 Extended Play songs was tough.
I think it's important to include that Neil did tell Stevie, rather Stevie's people, that it was going to benefit a charity for homeless in Auckland. But she did contribute to that over the LCMJ project. She also did new songs with Sheryl and Leann Rimes rather than doing the LCMJ project
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