PLEASE SETTLE THESE ARGUMENTS, FM, ETC FOR ME PLEASE, pls read

[David A]

Hello All

Some things I hope people can answer for me , etc.

. Has Beyonce actually sold more records than FM ? I know it’s a strange comparison, but I was with family in Arizona, and they insisted that Beyonce has sold more than FM, and I just didn’t think that was the case.

. Am I correct that FM has sold more records World Wide than the Eagles? Meaning the Eagles are bigger in the states than FM, but FM is larger world wide?

. I thought the new BTM were total crap, all it consisted of was copying and pasting clips , what a waste. I did see the Hall & Oates and thought it was cool. Other than, they say Live From Daryls House is some like big time invention, when I honestly never heard of it, other than stumbling across it on the net

. Has Stevie Nicks actually sold over 50 million records as a SOLO artist? I find that hard to believe when in my eyes , she hasn’t sold crap since her first 2 records, I just think that is a inflated number

. The FM BTM really gave a lot of credit to Say You Will. I mean, I do like the album, but technically it hasn’t even gone platinum, and by FM standards, im not sure how that is to be viewed as a success.

. I find it weird that on the Ledge, many people actually diss The Dance, as they claim it’s a oldies thing, etc. I mean, I think The Dance and everything about it was perfect and I don’t get how people think they should have came back with a new album. I mean, 1997 standards, FM were long gone, and if people think lets say FM could have released a SYW type of album, and it would have done well, are crazy. I mean, The Eagles in 1994 did the same thing, I just find it weird how people diss The Dance when It sold 5 million records, was Grammy nominated, sold out tour, etc. I mean, that’s when I became aware of FM, and they were all over the TV. I just find it strange how people think the SAME thing would have happened had they don’t a NEW album in 1997

. Honestly, I think Warner Bros. did all they could to help and promote LB Under The Cradle album. I mean, they promoted it, he did videos, was on Lettermen and Leno, and even ABC. I just , unlike his other records, don’t see what more Warner Bros. could have done

. Technically, I think FM is a better actual band than the Beatles, meaning they way they play, besides John Lennon, from a instrument stand point, the rest of the Beatles don’t impress me

. I never got The Beatles, I would see them as Pioneers rather than legends. But, im in the minority on that, I just don’t get them

. I think Buddy Holly is so under rated, and yet Ritchie Valens is so over rated


Take Care All

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by David A

Hello All

Some things I hope people can answer for me , etc.

. Has Beyonce actually sold more records than FM ? I know it’s a strange comparison, but I was with family in Arizona, and they insisted that Beyonce has sold more than FM, and I just didn’t think that was the case.

If you include all of the Destiny's Child albums, then yes, I think Beyonce may have outsold FM.

. Am I correct that FM has sold more records World Wide than the Eagles? Meaning the Eagles are bigger in the states than FM, but FM is larger world wide?

It depends on whether you are counting The Eagles Greatest Hits album, which I believe is the best-selling album in U.S. history. If you are counting only studio albums, then I think Fleetwood Mac has them beat.

. Has Stevie Nicks actually sold over 50 million records as a SOLO artist? I find that hard to believe when in my eyes , she hasn’t sold crap since her first 2 records, I just think that is a inflated number

I think if you add up her solo albums plus 1/5 of Stevie's Fleetwood Mac albums (since she is 1/5 of the band), then you get to the 50 million number. If you add up her solo albums, I think, at most, she would garner 25 million worldwide.

. The FM BTM really gave a lot of credit to Say You Will. I mean, I do like the album, but technically it hasn’t even gone platinum, and by FM standards, im not sure how that is to be viewed as a success.

I believe WB originally anticipated two million sales, minimum. So from that perspective it was a bit of a flop, especially considering their previous album had sold five million.

. I find it weird that on the Ledge, many people actually diss The Dance, as they claim it’s a oldies thing, etc. I mean, I think The Dance and everything about it was perfect and I don’t get how people think they should have came back with a new album. I mean, 1997 standards, FM were long gone, and if people think lets say FM could have released a SYW type of album, and it would have done well, are crazy. I mean, The Eagles in 1994 did the same thing, I just find it weird how people diss The Dance when It sold 5 million records, was Grammy nominated, sold out tour, etc. I mean, that’s when I became aware of FM, and they were all over the TV. I just find it strange how people think the SAME thing would have happened had they don’t a NEW album in 1997

I don't necessarily disagree with you that the Dance was a phenomenal success for FM after such a long absence. However, it seems that in 1997, when all the planets seemed to align perfectly for that fleeting instant, FM blew their wad on an oldies concert album instead of doing one more proper studio album with Christine on board. As far as I am concerned, there was no reason FM couldn't have done both The Dance and a new studio album simultaneously. They already had four new songs plus other songs that would have eventually ended up on Lindsey, Stevie and Christine's subsequent solo albums. The Dance was ultimately a run-through of their live show, which they would have rehearsed for anyway for the tour, so it's not like it would have been a lot of extra work. They could have released The Dance first, ridden the momentum for a while and then released a new album like six months later. Alas, that brief window of time passed and Christine disappeared forever like a thief in the night.

. Honestly, I think Warner Bros. did all they could to help and promote LB Under The Cradle album. I mean, they promoted it, he did videos, was on Lettermen and Leno, and even ABC. I just , unlike his other records, don’t see what more Warner Bros. could have done

Is that a mash-up of two Lindsey solo albums? That would be interesting...

I do think WB promoted the sh*t out of OOTC. Lindsey promoted the sh*t out of OOTC, including a spectacularly financially ruinous tour. My theory is that they released the worst possible lead single- "Wrong." The momentum just never recovered from that.

. Technically, I think FM is a better actual band than the Beatles, meaning they way they play, besides John Lennon, from a instrument stand point, the rest of the Beatles don’t impress me

I don't think that's a fair comparison. FM built their reputation and musical chops as a live band whereas The Beatles were mainly a studio concern. Also, their music did not necessarily lend itself well to extended jamming and improvisation; their songs were succinct but meticulously packed with lush orchestration, hummable melodies, layers of voices and sound effects. It wasn't about musical dexterity as much as it was about the sound. That being said, George Harrison was one of the most unique, melodic guitarists ever. He is one of those rare musicians whose work can be recognized instantly.

[holidayroad]

Originally Posted by David A

Hello All

. I thought the new BTM were total crap, all it consisted of was copying and pasting clips , what a waste. I did see the Hall & Oates and thought it was cool. Other than, they say Live From Daryls House is some like big time invention, when I honestly never heard of it, other than stumbling across it on the net

. Technically, I think FM is a better actual band than the Beatles, meaning they way they play, besides John Lennon, from a instrument stand point, the rest of the Beatles don’t impress me

. I never got The Beatles, I would see them as Pioneers rather than legends. But, im in the minority on that, I just don’t get them

. I think Buddy Holly is so under rated, and yet Ritchie Valens is so over rated


Take Care All

I can't really answer your questions on sales because I have seen so many figures to the point where I don't know what is or isn't accurate.
The FM BTM was okay. I'll say that the Daryl Hall/John Oates BTM was better put together. (I am also a fan of Daryl and John!!) As for Live At Daryl's House being a 'big invention', I don't know if I'd go that far, but I do like that Daryl Hall is open to the use of the internet to bring music to the fans. I think some other musicians would benefit from similar usage of the internet. (for anyone who has never seen it: check out Live From Daryl's House. http://www.livefromdarylshouse.com There's a new one each month. Sometimes newer artists are featured w/Daryl. Other times, it's older musicians.)
Under the Cradle? Maybe that should be LB's next album title! I do think OOTC was promoted well, but maybe not as much as it could have been. I disagree with Heijira that 'Wrong' was the wrong lead single. It's my favorite from the album and a good lead single.
I like Fleetwood Mac better than I like The Beatles. Still, I think The Beatles set the stage for a lot of acts to be acceptable in Rock and Roll that may have never made it if The Beatles hadn't paved the way.
I don't think Buddy Holly is underrated. I'd say in recent years that I've heard just as much about Buddy as I have about Ritchie Valens.

[GoldDustOrphan]

Beyonce & Destiny's Child combines sales don't even approach FM's numbers, which are more than double Beyonce/DC.


Future Games, Gold
Bare Trees, platinum
Mystery to Me, Gold
FM, 5x platinum
Rumours, 19x platinum
Tusk, 2 x platinum
Mirage, 2 x platinum
Tango, 3 x platinum
Behind the Mas, Gold
Say You Will, Gold
The Dance, 5 x platinum
Greatest Hits, 8 x platinum
Essential FM, platinum

48 million in U.S. sales.


Beyonce Solo
Dangerously In Love, 4 x platinum
B'day, 3 x platinum
I Am Sash Fierce, 3 x platinum

10 million solo

Destiny's Child, platinum
The Writing's on the Wall, 8 x platinum
Survivor, 4 x platinum
8 Days of Christmas, Gold
Destiny Fulfilled, 3 x platinum

16.5 million as a group

RIAA certified sales:
FM: 48 million in U.S.
Beyonce & DC: 26.5 million in the U.S.

It's an increasingly common gesture for performers, labels and publicists to inflate numbers and chart movement. Sometimes labels define "record" as an "album," (which is a record), or a "single" (which is a record), and now digital copy, which is a recording. If an act has solde 4 million albums, 4 million singles and 17 million paid downloads, the label or publicist send out a release of citing 25 million records sold! or they'll claim Billboard #1 hits, when the song only hit #1 on a minor chart and not the comprehensive chart.

[elle]

Originally Posted by David A

. I thought the new BTM were total crap, all it consisted of was copying and pasting clips , what a waste.

i agree they should've done it better, without spending more money. they spliced all kinds of stuff that either VH1 or FM owned, without paying much attention. when you watch re-runs of various tv shows around this time of the year, other than host outfits, in many cases you can barely notice that segments are spliced from different shows. that was not the case in BTM, where it seemed that old FM BTM, lindsey's and stevies's btm, LiB and Destiny Rules doc pieces were spliced together without cuttting any unnecessary footage that didn't fit. however, aside from FM fans, not many people have seen DR doc, so i don't think using that footage was necessarily a bad idea. LiB doc is apparently shown a lot on Palladia, but still clips of it were a cool addition to BTM.

Originally Posted by David A

The FM BTM really gave a lot of credit to Say You Will. I mean, I do like the album, but technically it hasn’t even gone platinum, and by FM standards, im not sure how that is to be viewed as a success.

i didn't perceive BTM as saying SYW was a huge commercial success - it mostly said that it was a great CD, and represents a "forward movement" (as lindsey would say ), and sold ok. i was actually really happy with that representation - since i mostly agree with it.

Originally Posted by David A

Honestly, I think Warner Bros. did all they could to help and promote LB Under The Cradle album. I mean, they promoted it, he did videos, was on Lettermen and Leno, and even ABC. I just , unlike his other records, don’t see what more Warner Bros. could have done

there is a separate thread on OOTC promotion in lindsey forum now. so far, the conclusion seems to be, mostly stemming from David's argument, that while it was promoted on tv shows, it got next to nothing airplay, and that's the key.

[BaronVonBielski]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

My theory is that they released the worst possible lead single- "Wrong." The momentum just never recovered from that.

Never a truer statement made.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by David A

Has Beyonce actually sold more records than FM ? I know it’s a strange comparison, but I was with family in Arizona, and they insisted that Beyonce has sold more than FM, and I just didn’t think that was the case.

You can't compare records sales of today with the 80s, 70s, the business model has changed a lot. We will never see record sales like Thriller, Saturday Nigh Fever, Rumours or Like a Virgin. In these days of itunes, internet downloads, piracy, the CD sales have been reduced to a minimal expression. Just check the music stores at malls. They look like ghost towns. They also sell used CDs, something you didn't see in the 90s. Not at mall stores I mean. The CD format is dying. And now you can buy (or find piracy) singles easier than before. So most people does not buy a whole album.

You can't compare old Fleetwood Mac sales with Beyonce, Killers, Jonash Brothers, or any singer/band. The business model is far different now.