Bobby Hunt & Doug Graves

[becca]

Like Billy Preston was to the Beatles? Well, maybe not, but I feel like I now know more than I could have wanted about these two briefly associated musicians.

I suppose that post-Weston there may have been the feeling of Bob needing someone else up front on stage, at least it makes sense to me. Dave Walker was a huge presence on stage going by various live appearance photos, so in a way they were probably still recovering from that in 1974... neither John nor Christine McVie were about to start jumping around and doing the splits... should've tried keeping Dave... "would you like to try wearing this silver sports coat"... good thing Stevie Nicks came along to twirl around some or they'd never have lasted post-Welch as a live attraction.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by becca

... should've tried keeping Dave... "

Yep. No doubt at all that FM would be a better band today if that had occurred.

[Wendy Welch]

Bobby Hunt and Doug Graves were never members of FM. They were paid players. I talk to Bobby quite often and he is an amazing person and a musician. He will tell you that Christine McVie was the reason that Bob left FM. Fact! Also, he played with Bob before both of them were with FM. Bob brought him to the band. I know this because we are all good friends. Just ask him if you really want to know the truth. Bob Welch adored Bobby Hunt and his talent!

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by Wendy Welch

Bobby Hunt and Doug Graves were never members of FM. They were paid players. I talk to Bobby quite often and he is an amazing person and a musician. He will tell you that Christine McVie was the reason that Bob left FM. Fact! Also, he played with Bob before both of them were with FM. Bob brought him to the band. I know this because we are all good friends. Just ask him if you really want to know the truth. Bob Welch adored Bobby Hunt and his talent!

Thanks for this, Mrs Welch. In his book, Mick says that Doug replaced Bobby, but ChiliD reckons he's got his timeline mixed up and that it was the other way round. Do you know why Doug was let go? From some of the quotes I've seen, Doug seemed to be under the impression that he was on the point of formally joining the band. Just interested. I appreciate this was a long time ago...

[Wendy Welch]

I wish I knew the answer to that question, but I can call Bobby Hunt and some others that were really there and would tell the truth and find out.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

Does anyone have any opinion about whether these two were official members of the band, however briefly, in 1974? There seems to be a bit of ambiguity about this- in Mick's autobiography for example he talks about the band having "personnel spasms" (or at least I think that was the phrase). They aren't listed as members in the booklet that accompanies the Chain , however.

They are not official members at all. They were hired support musicians for that one tour. That's all. A blip.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

Thanks for your input. Somehow, Mick's take on it in his book leads me, fwiw, to think that they were considered to be "members" of the band at the time, rather than backing musicians (like Nigel Watson, Brett Tuggle, Asante, Steve Thoma amongst others) albeit just for parts of the Heroes tour. That they never recorded anything with the band muddies it slightly.

I guess part of the problem is that there is also a distinction between who was ever legally part of the band, rather than simply artistically- presumably like Brunning, Vito, Mason, Bramlett and maybe Burnette, Weston & Walker. I don't suppose that even Nicks and Buckingham were legally part of the band, rather than hired hands right from December 31st 1974. They were put on a salary, weren't they?

???? I don't understand your "problem." It's pretty clear. All the people you cited above were official band members. Any ancillary support for their live shows are not considered official members. For instance, Lori and Sharon -- yes they are part of the touring band, but not official members of the group itself.

Bob Brunning was just a stand in for John.

Can't image: "Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome Fleetood Mac: Lindsey! Stevie! Christine! Mick! John! Lori! Sharon! Brett! Lighting Guy! Sound Guy! Stevie's Dog!

There is a clear distinction between band members and support players. Lots of big bands have support players. Sometimes they are part of the touring bands for years on end. They are associates of the band, not members.

[chriskisn]

Ok so imagine that Rick Vito and Billy Burnette had quit after the Tango tour but before they had ever actually featured on an album. Would that make them members or hired hands? The intention was there when they were hired to make them members of the band, but perhaps it didn't work out, perhaps there was a personality clash, etc, and they had departed.

As for Mr Brunning, he was hired perhaps as a temporary member, but he was still a member and if John McVie hadn't left Mayall, Brunning might have still been a member of the band right up until he passed away.

I'm not saying Doug Graves or Bobby Hunt were members, but perhaps, especially in Doug Graves case, they were told they were in the band as members (which there is at least some evidence to suggest HE thought he was in the band permanently).

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Ok so imagine that Rick Vito and Billy Burnette had quit after the Tango tour but before they had ever actually featured on an album. Would that make them members or hired hands? The intention was there when they were hired to make them members of the band, but perhaps it didn't work out, perhaps there was a personality clash, etc, and they had departed.

As for Mr Brunning, he was hired perhaps as a temporary member, but he was still a member and if John McVie hadn't left Mayall, Brunning might have still been a member of the band right up until he passed away.

I'm not saying Doug Graves or Bobby Hunt were members, but perhaps, especially in Doug Graves case, they were told they were in the band as members (which there is at least some evidence to suggest HE thought he was in the band permanently).

Yes, because FM held a presser specifically to introduce the new members of FM (Billy/RV). Take someone like Dave Donato of Black Sabbath. Nothing he recorded with them was ever released (I think he just did demos) but he was announced as a member (I guess Dave Walker could fall into this category with them as well, though they did make 1 public TV appearance when he was there).

Agreed on Brunning, though I'd be surprised if he'd have stayed with FM that long, maybe until '69, at a push but I guess we'll never know for sure.

John

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

Yes, because FM held a presser specifically to introduce the new members of FM (Billy/RV). Take someone like Dave Donato of Black Sabbath. Nothing he recorded with them was ever released (I think he just did demos) but he was announced as a member (I guess Dave Walker could fall into this category with them as well, though they did make 1 public TV appearance when he was there).

Agreed on Brunning, though I'd be surprised if he'd have stayed with FM that long, maybe until '69, at a push but I guess we'll never know for sure.

John

Dave Walker in Black Sabbath is a good example, he only did one live appearance, but I think he is still generally listed as a member of the band not as part of a "touring band" or whatever.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Dave Walker in Black Sabbath is a good example, he only did one live appearance, but I think he is still generally listed as a member of the band not as part of a "touring band" or whatever.

Yeah I'm glad DW was there for at least that, so at least there's some solid documentation there with him being with them (though I'd sure love to get my hands on the VIDEO of that performance, it seems that only the audio portion of it has leaked (& screen shots). Since the source was a TV show, this must mean that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE has the video otherwise how did they get the audio from the video source? Anyway, end of thread highjack.

John

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

Yeah I'm glad DW was there for at least that, so at least there's some solid documentation there with him being with them (though I'd sure love to get my hands on the VIDEO of that performance, it seems that only the audio portion of it has leaked (& screen shots). Since the source was a TV show, this must mean that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE has the video otherwise how did they get the audio from the video source? Anyway, end of thread highjack.

On that note, though, I'd love to see the video from Christine's first TV appearance with Fleetwood Mac from Top of the Pops. There are a lot of photos from that, but I've never seen any video of it.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

On that note, though, I'd love to see the video from Christine's first TV appearance with Fleetwood Mac from Top of the Pops. There are a lot of photos from that, but I've never seen any video of it.

This would be a dream. And the footage of her singing "Show Me a Smile" that Stevie says she saw on television long before she joined.

Anyone out there?!!!

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

On that note, though, I'd love to see the video from Christine's first TV appearance with Fleetwood Mac from Top of the Pops. There are a lot of photos from that, but I've never seen any video of it.

Yeah, just thinking back, I haven't seen any video from those shows with Christine while Jeremy was still in the group...just the stills. The earliest VIDEO of Fleetwood Mac that I've seen with Christine has been the "Dragonfly" video that also has Bob Welch (which I think was from the same show/session that the "Lay It All Down" video was from)

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Yeah, just thinking back, I haven't seen any video from those shows with Christine while Jeremy was still in the group...just the stills. The earliest VIDEO of Fleetwood Mac that I've seen with Christine has been the "Dragonfly" video that also has Bob Welch (which I think was from the same show/session that the "Lay It All Down" video was from)

Actually, there was THIS...