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  #1  
Old 04-10-2021, 08:52 AM
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Macfan4life Macfan4life is offline
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Exclamation Say You Will turns 18 this month

Now, who feels old LOL

Believe it or not but Say You Will was released this month back in 2003. The song Peacekeeper always takes me back to the Iraq war invasion because that song was breaking right as the invasion was happening and thought it was sort of spooky because we all wanted a peacekeeper at that time.

Anyway, you can tell I am a history buff to always remind everyone of certain dates, etc. I know this album does not get much love around here but IMHO its a musical masterpiece and the best Mac album since Rumours/Tusk era. I just watched Destiny Rules the other night in its entirety that I never did before. I had seen so many snippets here and there and never watched the complete documentary. OMG will it make you feel old. It was shot almost 20 years ago. I had to laugh at the phones they were using and the cars they were driving and OMG was everyone so young in their 50s! Poor Lindsey, its almost like he is Charlie Brown with a football and the record company and the rest of the band are Lucy. Lindsey's only concern was another Tusk like double album to showcase the artistic value of the band. He put off yet another solo album, brought those songs, was going to surrender royalties just to put something out he would be so proud of. The record company and the band liked the idea but realized the younger generation who buys albums does not care about artistic value and how "deep" the album is. Lindsey did not get his way but the album ended up still a tug of war being much longer than a conventional album. They really fought over mixing. The sad part for me was Mick saying when the album was being recorded how disappointed Lindsey and the band would be to only sell 500k copies so that was their benchmark of a commercial failure. Sadly, that's what the album ended up selling more or less and everyone was disappointed but especially because of how they worked their asses off on this album. I think Stevie's writing was some of her best. But OMG we FINALLY get Smile at You and Running Through the Garden on an album. Hello!! That alone is enough to love the album. Musically this one of the Mac's BEST album IMHO. Yes Rumours has more catchy stuff but musically speaking Say You Will is much more intricate and artsy. Yes of course the album needed Christine. But like John said, if she was there, she would not want to be there and it would have ruined the mood for the entire album. Maybe because of the mixing controversy I thought maybe that is why some say its cold? I like every song on this album but my highlights are:

What's the world Coming to
Ilumne
Thrown Down
Miranda - genius
Say You Will - its catchy for me
Smile at you
Running through the garden
Bleed to Love her
Everybody finds out - most explosive Mac song ever. Dear God listen to this song with headphones

I admire the effort. The effort shows. I don't judge albums or music by commercial success and they should be so proud of this album especially to go forward without Christine in a declining music industry time. I give this album a solid B+
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Last edited by Macfan4life; 04-10-2021 at 08:54 AM..
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  #2  
Old 04-10-2021, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
Now, who feels old LOL

Believe it or not but Say You Will was released this month back in 2003. The song Peacekeeper always takes me back to the Iraq war invasion because that song was breaking right as the invasion was happening and thought it was sort of spooky because we all wanted a peacekeeper at that time.

Anyway, you can tell I am a history buff to always remind everyone of certain dates, etc. I know this album does not get much love around here but IMHO its a musical masterpiece and the best Mac album since Rumours/Tusk era. I just watched Destiny Rules the other night in its entirety that I never did before. I had seen so many snippets here and there and never watched the complete documentary. OMG will it make you feel old. It was shot almost 20 years ago. I had to laugh at the phones they were using and the cars they were driving and OMG was everyone so young in their 50s! Poor Lindsey, its almost like he is Charlie Brown with a football and the record company and the rest of the band are Lucy. Lindsey's only concern was another Tusk like double album to showcase the artistic value of the band. He put off yet another solo album, brought those songs, was going to surrender royalties just to put something out he would be so proud of. The record company and the band liked the idea but realized the younger generation who buys albums does not care about artistic value and how "deep" the album is. Lindsey did not get his way but the album ended up still a tug of war being much longer than a conventional album. They really fought over mixing. The sad part for me was Mick saying when the album was being recorded how disappointed Lindsey and the band would be to only sell 500k copies so that was their benchmark of a commercial failure. Sadly, that's what the album ended up selling more or less and everyone was disappointed but especially because of how they worked their asses off on this album. I think Stevie's writing was some of her best. But OMG we FINALLY get Smile at You and Running Through the Garden on an album. Hello!! That alone is enough to love the album. Musically this one of the Mac's BEST album IMHO. Yes Rumours has more catchy stuff but musically speaking Say You Will is much more intricate and artsy. Yes of course the album needed Christine. But like John said, if she was there, she would not want to be there and it would have ruined the mood for the entire album. Maybe because of the mixing controversy I thought maybe that is why some say its cold? I like every song on this album but my highlights are:

What's the world Coming to
Ilumne
Thrown Down
Miranda - genius
Say You Will - its catchy for me
Smile at you
Running through the garden
Bleed to Love her
Everybody finds out - most explosive Mac song ever. Dear God listen to this song with headphones

I admire the effort. The effort shows. I don't judge albums or music by commercial success and they should be so proud of this album especially to go forward without Christine in a declining music industry time. I give this album a solid B+


Great recap. Itís hard to believe itís been 18 years. I also really like the album and only wished Christine recorded with them...which she was wiling to do. It would have made it a bit warmer and we could have got aĒdouble albumĒ. Oh and yes....Everybody Finds Out on headphones!
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  #3  
Old 04-10-2021, 10:02 AM
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aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
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18 years ago I felt a bittersweetness towards this release. I was glad a new studio album had come out but disappointed that Christine was not involved. How galling to be SO CLOSE to an actual studio follow up to the lineup that made Tango! I expected to be underwhelmed and admittedly was on the first listen. But then, after a few more tries, the album got under my skin and I admired how SUBSTANTIAL it really is. Substantial—that’s my prevailing critique of SYW. It’s uneven, possibly overlong, but meaty, innovative, and original. Lindsey and Stevie’s songs do not always hang together well but many of those very songs are impressive on an individual basis. Stevie’s tunes are especially strong, though two of Lindsey’s are among my favorites (Red Rover, Goodbye). I was and am sill moved by Illume. So often, Stevie exploits collective tragedies for self promotion but her performance of this song really puts you in the headspace of someone reeling from 9-11. Everybody Finds Out is amazeballs and Throw Down may be one of her best single songs since the 1970s.

So, yeah, I missed Christine and the way her songs often glued together the work of these star-crossed ex-lovers, but SYW is a genuine album, a real creative effort that, in terms of its integrity, surpasses MIRAGE and TANGO, both of which were created largely to ensure continued commercial success.

And I eventually got over the absence of Christine when, one year later, she gave us ITM, my favorite of her solo albums.
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Old 04-10-2021, 10:03 AM
On Ice On Ice is offline
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Oh my 18 years- makes me feel older than BTM recently turning 31. Like BTM, I loved SYW when it came out- the crisp, clear guitars and interesting musical twists and turns made for an engaging listen. Hindsight though, the length makes it hard not to skip some of the weaker songs. I agree wholeheartedly that the inclusion of Christine would've taken that oh so slight annoying edge off the record. My favs are:

1. All of Stevie's songs except Silver Girl. Best is Destiny Rules followed by Smile at You and Everybody Finds Out. She is great vocally for the most part and the writing is solid throughout except the aforementioned track. I do have a preference for the Wall of Sound Thrown Down- what an amazing first single that would've made for SYW, the song is awesome. While good on SYW, Wall of Sound just takes the song to a whole other level- best song hands down since the Wild Heart.
2. Lindsey comes in about 60% to my ears, his main strength has always been crafting brilliant, catchy pop, not art rock (he uses the I'm So Afraid formula for all of these songs)- he desperately needed to choose between Come and Morrow, both on one record was hard to get through. What's the World Coming To, Miranda and Peacekeeper are his best.

Also, the tour marks the last time I saw them live, which was a great show. I don't find myself playing SYW much these days but honouring its anniversary, I'm going to put it on this weekend between listening to the wonderful reissue of the masterful live 1980 (and 82) album.
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  #5  
Old 04-10-2021, 10:05 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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It's a great record. And they're still selling it on FM's website!
Stevie's songs are awesome. I think Silver Girl is one of her best lyrics.

The charting on Billboard wasn't too bad. I think McCartney albums were charting the same or lower. Stones albums were charting at #3 on Billboard.

I always wondered what songs would've been added for a double album. Maybe the Stones covers Lindsey did for his solo albums.
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Old 04-10-2021, 10:52 AM
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It is a great album, a slow burner, and all the better for it.
Itís my favourite after Rumours.
I still play it regularly and enjoy it even more these days.
My favourite tracks are.
Thrown down
Peacekeeper
Smile at you
Steal your heart away.
But I like all of it.
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  #7  
Old 04-10-2021, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
18 years ago I felt a bittersweetness towards this release. I was glad a new studio album had come out but disappointed that Christine was not involved. How galling to be SO CLOSE to an actual studio follow up to the lineup that made Tango! I expected to be underwhelmed and admittedly was on the first listen. But then, after a few more tries, the album got under my skin and I admired how SUBSTANTIAL it really is. Substantial—that’s my prevailing critique of SYW. It’s uneven, possibly overlong, but meaty, innovative, and original. Lindsey and Stevie’s songs do not always hang together well but many of those very songs are impressive on an individual basis. Stevie’s tunes are especially strong, though two of Lindsey’s are among my favorites (Red Rover, Goodbye). I was and am sill moved by Illume. So often, Stevie exploits collective tragedies for self promotion but her performance of this song really puts you in the headspace of someone reeling from 9-11. Everybody Finds Out is amazeballs and Throw Down may be one of her best single songs since the 1970s.

So, yeah, I missed Christine and the way her songs often glued together the work of these star-crossed ex-lovers, but SYW is a genuine album, a real creative effort that, in terms of its integrity, surpasses MIRAGE and TANGO, both of which were created largely to ensure continued commercial success.

And I eventually got over the absence of Christine when, one year later, she gave us ITM, my favorite of her solo albums.
I agree with you on 3 major points.
To have ITM by Christine is a wonderful sacrafice win that she did not record SYW.

I also was a bit underwhelmed when I first listened. Most of it was meh. But after listening to it often made me completely understand and appreciate it like crazy. I mention headphones alot because I used to jog with this CD. Thats right kids, they actually had portable CD players with big head phones that you could take and listen to CDs where ever you wanted. I used to jog to this CD so I know it like the back of my hand. Even though long and unconventional, I appreciate every track and very few of them do I skip over. It was also nice to have Stevie really singing back up to Lindsey's songs so much. Almost like a Buck/Nicks album. On Tango we get "layered" in Stevie vocals (whatever that means). Was it Lindsey trying to be Stevie with a computer or did he actually take vocal tracks and layer them in. None of that here. I also have never heard Fleetwood Mac play so vividly and coordinated like this album. Just listening to John, Mick and Lindsey play on many songs like Everybody Finds Out is completely outrageously good.
Lastly, I also agree Thrown Down is her last best written song. But like Mick says on the documentary, its Stevie's best writing since Rumours.

So many Tusk like qualities to this album which confuses me because Tusk gets so much love on this board yet SYW thrown in the gutter i.e. thrown down.

I take my hat off to Lindsey for this album. I like his solo stuff but not crazy about some of it. I disliked Tango because it was too much Lindsey solo album sounding. This walks "a thin line" of Lindsey solo and with Fleetwood Mac brilliantly. I can hear his solo stuff but its got Mick, John and Stevie on the songs unlike the Tango stuff.
Well done Mr. Buckingham. I get it and I got it and SYW is brilliant.

BTW, I left Destiny Rules off my favorites list. That would make 10 songs that I officially love on the album. 10 songs makes a complete album IMHO. I like the other songs but these 10 are smack you in the face good.
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Last edited by Macfan4life; 04-10-2021 at 11:10 AM..
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Old 04-10-2021, 11:10 AM
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Nice to see the album is officially an adult. Now about some of those in the band...
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Old 04-10-2021, 12:29 PM
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As a fan of Fleetwood Mac, I’m happy to see people share their love for Say You Will. Personally, I don’t care for the album at all, and skip virtually every song on it but 5. I love:

Thrown Down
Peacekeeper
Say You Will
What’s the World Coming To
Goodbye Baby

And even Goodbye Baby, a song I really like, sounds like a demo. Which would be fine, if it was a demo, but it’s not. I truly cannot understand the poor production on this song.

I’d also add that I was at opening night of this tour, and the audience reaction to the new songs was cold. People sitting down, bathroom breaks, going to the refreshment stands, looking at tour merchandise, I mean the audience was tuned out. Personally, I was shocked at how many new songs the band performed, and thought it was pretty brave, but the audience reaction helped explain why they dropped some of the new songs from the setlist later. It was obvious most of the audience hadn’t bought the new album.
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Old 04-10-2021, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
I used to jog to this CD so I know it like the back of my hand. Even though long and unconventional, I appreciate every track and very few of them do I skip over.
I did this then and I do it now. Almost never listened to these songs in their intended sequence. It did help me get know individual songs but my tendency to do this also reflects my feelings on how the songs donít necessarily glue together.

Still, Iím a fan of SYW.
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Old 04-10-2021, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bwboy View Post
As a fan of Fleetwood Mac, I’m happy to see people share their love for Say You Will. Personally, I don’t care for the album at all, and skip virtually every song on it but 5. I love:

Thrown Down
Peacekeeper
Say You Will
What’s the World Coming To
Goodbye Baby

And even Goodbye Baby, a song I really like, sounds like a demo. Which would be fine, if it was a demo, but it’s not. I truly cannot understand the poor production on this song.

I’d also add that I was at opening night of this tour, and the audience reaction to the new songs was cold. People sitting down, bathroom breaks, going to the refreshment stands, looking at tour merchandise, I mean the audience was tuned out. Personally, I was shocked at how many new songs the band performed, and thought it was pretty brave, but the audience reaction helped explain why they dropped some of the new songs from the setlist later. It was obvious most of the audience hadn’t bought the new album.
Thats been a consistent theme of Fleetwood Mac "fans" or should we say concert attendees. Every band must play some hits but the people that attend Fleetwood Mac shows are beyond ridiculous. This past tour, the band put in extreme classics like Hypnotized, Storms, and Isn't It Midnight only to have them pulled because the audience sits and pouts. Remember the video that is probably still on youtube of thousands of fans walking out of an On With The Show concert during Silver Springs. Early in their career they publicly stated they would do very little songs from new albums because the audience was not into it. OMG they performed songs from Rumours and the audience hated it. It was not until Rumours was a big hit with hit songs did the audience react. I've even seen thousands of fans run out of their seats when Stevie left the stage for Over My Head in 1987. Really embarrassing IMHO. For Sisters of the Moon in Miami, the arena was sold out for OWTS tour yet when Sisters was over, not one person applauded. I even saw Stevie's reaction in the dark like WTF? Even songs people dont like or know get some applause. Fortunately for other bands and artists the "fans" know their music. Bruce or Paul could play a 3 hour set with no hits and the audience would know every song.
That is what makes this forum so great, probably better than other band forums. We know the songs and most of us appreciate the artistry. But its ok, some fans want to hear Seven Wonders, Talk To Me, Stand Back, Dreams and Rhiannon and call it a night. Seriously. During Enchanted tour in 1998, I had the best concert seats I had in my life. I was 7 rows back. The couple in front of me left after Stand Back
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Last edited by Macfan4life; 04-10-2021 at 02:06 PM..
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Old 04-10-2021, 02:45 PM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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Iíd also add that I was at opening night of this tour, and the audience reaction to the new songs was cold. People sitting down, bathroom breaks, going to the refreshment stands, looking at tour merchandise, I mean the audience was tuned out. Personally, I was shocked at how many new songs the band performed, and thought it was pretty brave, but the audience reaction helped explain why they dropped some of the new songs from the setlist later. It was obvious most of the audience hadnít bought the new album.
They still did like 5 new songs throughout the whole tour. I wish I was at Opening Night to have hear Running Through the Garden and Destiny Rules.
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Old 04-10-2021, 02:45 PM
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Good point about new songs at the live shows- it's plagued the band virtually since the beginning; none of us on here could imagine not being blown away hearing those nuggets live. No applause for Sisters of the Moon is just wrong on so many levels. Don't you just dig the Cecelia lyrics on the reissue version. Just wow! Live 80 proves once and for all just how good Tusk songs were live- they're all amazing. Christine almost seems apologetic when she introduces her sublime Over and Over which again is wonderful live. For the ones who walk out of the shows, I would rather stay for Isn't it Midnight and leave during Go Your Own Way lol.
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Old 04-10-2021, 02:49 PM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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This past tour, the band put in extreme classics like Hypnotized, Storms, and Isn't It Midnight only to have them pulled because the audience sits and pouts.
It's interesting because Hypnotized is a classic rock radio staple so it's not like an unknown song. Storms was on The Very Best of Fleetwood Mac which sold well. And Isn't it Midnight is such a bouncy song.

I thought people would dig Sad Angel live but if they never heard it, they don't want to hear it.
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Old 04-10-2021, 03:04 PM
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It's interesting because Hypnotized is a classic rock radio staple so it's not like an unknown song. Storms was on The Very Best of Fleetwood Mac which sold well. And Isn't it Midnight is such a bouncy song.

I thought people would dig Sad Angel live but if they never heard it, they don't want to hear it.
In Cleveland, they performed Storms and Hypnotized, but had dropped them by the time they came to Columbus. Oh man, I was so bummed! I was thankful to hear Isnít It Midnight before it, too, was dropped.

Itís interesting to me how well received Silver Springs was during the Dance tour. I suspect if it hadnít gotten such glowing reviews from the critics during the televised special, along with all those dramatic closeups of Stevie and Lindsey singing to each other, then that song would have been dropped at some point during the tour. Silver Springs was a deep cut, and most of America had never heard it, but it went over incredibly well. I suspect if Storms or Beautiful Child had been performed for that concert instead of Landslide, thereís a decent chance they would have been hits, too. The audience had been conditioned to love Landslide, and to see that hug afterwards with Lindsey. Just a thought.
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