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  #31  
Old 12-27-2022, 06:48 AM
cbBen cbBen is offline
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Originally Posted by RockyRaccoon View Post
Maybe a little off-topic but I wish somebody would have convinced Lindsey to slow down "Say Goodbye" or even re-record it as a proper duet with Stevie (I think she just put her vocal on top of his solo recording) and make it sound closer to the live arrangement.
Me too. He was cutting corners by not redoing it. And as you say, at least slow it down – or save it for Under The Skin, where a sped-up version (without Stevie) would have fit.

What is "BD"? "Blue Denim"?

Last edited by cbBen; 12-27-2022 at 09:50 AM..
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  #32  
Old 12-27-2022, 07:04 AM
Wdm6789 Wdm6789 is offline
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They had to have Lindsey and Stevie to tour as Fleetwood Mac. With Christine retired at the time, it couldn’t just be Stevie, Mick, and John, that pretty much would have been a Stevie solo tour with Mick and John on drums and bass.

With Christine’s death, it makes he resent that they fired Lindsey in 2018 right before what should have been their farewell tour. It would have been the perfect final chapter in their legacy. I can respect and empathize with Stevie for not wanting a toxic work environment and not being able to put up with Lindsey anymore, but at that point, she had done it for so many years, she could have stuck it out for one more tour with him. And Lindsey for not wanting to compromise on their proposed timeline for the tour. He knew Christine was in a delicate state, he had just toured with her in 2017 and even mentioned it in an email to Mick. That first TV interview they did when they announced Lindsey’s removal from the band, you can see on Christine, Mick, and John’s faces that they were not happy with the situation.
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  #33  
Old 12-27-2022, 07:38 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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I can respect and empathize with Stevie for not wanting a toxic work environment and not being able to put up with Lindsey anymore, but at that point, she had done it for so many years, she could have stuck it out for one more tour with him.
I do too for Stevie and anyone feeling or being abused. However, it's still unknown by us what was toxic? That night at MusiCares, she wrapped her arm around his arm. They held hands on the red carpet. What did he do to her? Why didn't Mick or John do anything about it like pushing him up against the wall and saying you do that again and I'll eff you up!
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  #34  
Old 12-27-2022, 10:21 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
We did. Did you really miss her on LBCM?

That said, they could have put “Miss Fantasy,” “Without You,” “Sad Angel,” and “Not Make Believe” on the album, dubbed in Christine, and released it as Fleetwood Mac “On With The Show” in late 2017.
Really, I think that's how SYW was made. Dubbing in the other vocals. It would have been nice in another dimension if they had Christine's keys on all songs. (If she had been welcome to participate).
I think Christine would have helped balance Lindsey in the studio emotionally as well. Without her, it was a mess of nasty emotions. No longer break up emotions, but greed and control issues.

I didn't miss Stevie on LBCM. I wouldn't have minded is she was the one who left the band and they continued as a 4some. The four of them touring in smaller venues would have been sensational.
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Last edited by jbrownsjr; 12-27-2022 at 10:23 AM..
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  #35  
Old 12-27-2022, 01:51 PM
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elle elle is offline
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
To me, this documentary is a clear visual of Lindsey trying to produce a Fleetwood Mac album, and Stevie's politics taking over the band in a way where, even her staff nearly have the same standing as a member of the band.
yes.

i love Destiny Rules doc, but compare it to the warm and easy Making of Buckingham McVie, and it's easy to see where all the drama and toxicity was coming from in Fleetwood Mac.
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  #36  
Old 12-27-2022, 02:08 PM
cbBen cbBen is offline
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yes.

i love Destiny Rules doc, but compare it to the warm and easy Making of Buckingham McVie, and it's easy to see where all the drama and toxicity was coming from in Fleetwood Mac.
Unlike Stevie, Christine didn't have a solo career to put on hold when working with Lindsey or with FM as a whole.

My theory: After 2002 (maybe 2004), Stevie wanted to get away from Lindsey for good. She promoted Say You Will in 2003-04, but couldn't get Lindsey out of FM until Christine returned, as the band needed at least two of its Rumours lead vocalists.

When Christine returned Stevie finally had her chance, but needed a tour with Christine in the fold before making a move. Then the Buckingham McVie project postponed her taking action. The 2017 East-West concerts were too small in number to justify a coup then. Then there was MusiCares.

Finally, and especially having come off her most successful solo tour perhaps ever, she made her move. I believe she may have been prepared to walk away from the band had they chosen Lindsey over her (she didn't need it anymore). But as they were now strictly a live act and not a recording one, she was clearly more valuable to the enterprise.

And so, at long last, she got away from Lindsey.

Last edited by cbBen; 12-27-2022 at 02:10 PM..
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  #37  
Old 12-27-2022, 02:30 PM
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HomerMcvie HomerMcvie is offline
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Originally Posted by cbBen View Post
Unlike Stevie, Christine didn't have a solo career to put on hold when working with Lindsey or with FM as a whole.

My theory: After 2002 (maybe 2004), Stevie wanted to get away from Lindsey for good. She promoted Say You Will in 2003-04, but couldn't get Lindsey out of FM until Christine returned, as the band needed at least two of its Rumours lead vocalists.

When Christine returned Stevie finally had her chance, but needed a tour with Christine in the fold before making a move. Then the Buckingham McVie project postponed her taking action. The 2017 East-West concerts were too small in number to justify a coup then. Then there was MusiCares.

Finally, and especially having come off her most successful solo tour perhaps ever, she made her move. I believe she may have been prepared to walk away from the band had they chosen Lindsey over her (she didn't need it anymore). But as they were now strictly a live act and not a recording one, she was clearly more valuable to the enterprise.

And so, at long last, she got away from Lindsey.
And ruined the final chapter of our band. I hope she regrets it, although I seriously doubt that she does.
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  #38  
Old 12-27-2022, 02:49 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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And ruined the final chapter of our band. I hope she regrets it, although I seriously doubt that she does.
Steve, you, Elle, Tony, and I have been saying all along that it would have been a blessing to get a four-piece. Market it correctly and that little niche of FleetBuckVie could have been some great albums and tours.

I think we even did Setlists:

The Chain
You Make Lovin Fun
In My World
Don't Stop
Red Sun
World Turning
Got A Hold On Me
Trouble
I'm So Afraid
Say You Love Me
Little Lies
Isn't It Midnight
Big Love (band)
Bleed To Love Her
Get Like You Used To Be
Go Your Own Way

Encore
On With The Show
Carnival Begin

You and I Part II (Acappella)
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Last edited by jbrownsjr; 12-27-2022 at 03:40 PM..
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  #39  
Old 12-27-2022, 02:51 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Unlike Stevie, Christine didn't have a solo career to put on hold when working with Lindsey or with FM as a whole.
Even if she did have a solo project, I don't see Christine being toxic with her band. Her ego was mostly in tact her entire career. That's why she's a billion times more important that Nick$.
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  #40  
Old 12-27-2022, 02:53 PM
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Unlike Stevie, Christine didn't have a solo career to put on hold when working with Lindsey or with FM as a whole..
wait, so you are saying if one is more successful than others around them they have to be toxic to those people? while just a tiny a bit less successful people can have nice warm working relationships?

interesting theory. might be happening in many bands, but hopefully not most.
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  #41  
Old 12-27-2022, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cbBen View Post
Unlike Stevie, Christine didn't have a solo career to put on hold when working with Lindsey or with FM as a whole.

My theory: After 2002 (maybe 2004), Stevie wanted to get away from Lindsey for good. She promoted Say You Will in 2003-04, but couldn't get Lindsey out of FM until Christine returned, as the band needed at least two of its Rumours lead vocalists.

When Christine returned Stevie finally had her chance, but needed a tour with Christine in the fold before making a move. Then the Buckingham McVie project postponed her taking action. The 2017 East-West concerts were too small in number to justify a coup then. Then there was MusiCares.

Finally, and especially having come off her most successful solo tour perhaps ever, she made her move. I believe she may have been prepared to walk away from the band had they chosen Lindsey over her (she didn't need it anymore). But as they were now strictly a live act and not a recording one, she was clearly more valuable to the enterprise.

And so, at long last, she got away from Lindsey.
That's a lot of forethought and planning. If she wanted to get away from Lindsey and only do her solo career then why did she do a giant Unleashed tour with Lindsey and the Mac?
I just think she really resented working with Lindsey from SYW on. She still maintained her loyalty to Fleetwood Mac for Mick and John's sake and tolerated Lindsey. No doubt going on 2 huge world back to back tours with Fleetwood Mac 2013-2015 really drove Stevie insane. The Miami 2015 show had Stevie publicly going after Lindsey on stage. However when Lindsey and the rest of Fleetwood Mac went on recording without her was a bridge too far. Pretend for a moment the band did not record the Buck/Vie album. I would bet the house the 2018 World tour would have resumed without Lindsey's firing. It was petty, silly, and rock's stupidest firing since Sammy Hagar. Stevie's power in the band went full tilt when Chris left. The band operated on the perimeter when Stevie gave the green light. Suddenly Chris is back and Stevie did not give the green light to record and tour without her. That had to drive her nuts. Even though she would never admit it the jealousy she felt when Lindsey and Christine wrote and performed World Turning in 1975 was still there. The only difference is that Stevie had no power in 1975 and had all the power in 2018.
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  #42  
Old 12-27-2022, 04:33 PM
cbBen cbBen is offline
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For $. At that point she had more use for FM more than she would in 2018. As I say, I bet she really was prepared to walk away had they chosen Lindsey over her.

She rebuilt her solo career from the ground up starting in 2005. By 2008 (when she would have had to commit to the 2009 tour), she hadn't built it back up enough even to approach outgrowing the band.

As for her solo success necessitating her being toxic:

1. No doesn't necessitate it, just makes it possible.
2. I would characterize it more as power than toxicity (though maybe it was both). They needed her more than vice-versa.

Last edited by cbBen; 12-28-2022 at 06:17 PM..
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  #43  
Old 12-27-2022, 05:34 PM
RockyRaccoon RockyRaccoon is offline
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I hate the way Lindsey was dismissed but also remember that Lindsey survived a major heart attack while Fleetwood Mac was on their tour and in that case it might be a good thing he wasn’t touring himself when that happened. I think in the end, maybe it was better for him to get out of the stressful environment of Stevie, Mick, playing giant arenas, etc. even if the circumstances were less than ideal.
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  #44  
Old 12-27-2022, 05:35 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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For $. At that point she had use for FM more than she would in 2018. As I say, I bet she really was prepared to walk away had they chosen Lindsey over her.

She rebuilt her solo career from the ground up starting in 2005. By 2008 (when she would have had to commit to the 2009 tour), she hadn't built it back up enough even to approach outgrowing the band.

As for her solo success necessitating her being toxic:

1. No doesn't necessitate it, just makes it possible.
2. I would characterize it more as power than toxicity (though maybe it was both). They needed her more than vice-versa.
As the title says: Destiny Rules!
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  #45  
Old 12-27-2022, 05:50 PM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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She rebuilt her solo career from the ground up starting in 2005. By 2008 (when she would have had to commit to the 2009 tour), she hadn't built it back up enough even to approach outgrowing the band.
Stevie did not rebuild her solo career starting from the ground up in 2005. If anything, she rebuilt it in 1998. She rode The Dance momentum right up to 2001 and was on the music video channels. She had a top 5 album at age 52. In 2002, she worked on SYW. Then from 2003-2004, FM did 135 shows.
In 2005, she rode the momentum from SYW, getting big bucks to play a mini- residency in Vegas. And I'm sure she got a huge advance to do a co-headlining tour with Henley that year. The next year, she was playing arenas and stadiums in Australia (some were co-headlines with John Farnham).

Stevie didn't rebuild. She just did concerts every year, went on tv shows, and released greatest hits or live album dvd.

Once American Horror Story had her on and news got out that Harry Styles partied with her backstage at The o2, she was bigger than FM.
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