Who are the most talented members of Fleetwood Mac?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
And while he did direct a lot of his rants at the management company, he most certainly poked fun at her in a major way.

Letterman poked fun at her, yes... i never argued that fact. But you said he made "anti-Stevie" remarks, and I don't think anything he said was ever "anti-Stevie" at all.
It never appeared to be meant with any malice whatsoever.

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Already when Tango came out, there was a lot of antipathy toward Stevie; people were having great fun at mocking her image.

People have been mocking Stevie's "image" pretty much from Day One... again, I don't think that's a good sign that she is/was unpopular.
Anytime you achieve a certain level of stardom, there will always be some backlash in turn.
Heck, in Hollywood you probably haven't "made it" until the first time someone makes a joke about you.


In citing a lack of popularity, you mention the period from 1986 to 1997... but in that time, she had two Top 20 albums (one hitting the Top 10), a Top 40 "best of" compilation, and six Hot 100 charted singles (two of which were Top 20 hits, and a third hitting the Top 5). Not to mention four successful tours.
Even 'Street Angel'... which many consider to be Stevie's Waterloo... charted at #45.
If she had been completely unpopular, it wouldnt have even done that well.

So, I think the facts prove that her popularity may have waned, but she was never completely unpopular.

As for her voice and songwriting abilities... well, that's pretty subjective.
I think "Twisted," "Sweet Girl," "Trouble In Shangri-La," "Bombay Sapphires," "Love Is," and "Thrown Down," rank right up there with some of her best.

And her voice always has had its detractors.... as far back as the very first time Rolling Stone called it "callow."
But that doesn't seem to keep Stevie from perpetually garnering new fans.
Just look at how many YOUNG people became fans (of Stevie in particular) after hearing/seeing "Silver Springs" on MTV.
And true, it was a twenty year old song... but they were still hearing her voice as it is today.

For every argument that Stevie is washed up, unpopular, no longer talented, etc., etc., there are many equally valid (and perhaps even more plausible) arguments that she continues to be a very vital and talented artist.
She's just not everyone's cup of tea... and on that point, we can both agree.



Johnny Stew

[golddustwoman77]

Actually, I always thought that Letterman was a Stevie fan. He has said as much. He has her on his show often, and he always makes a big deal over her. Many times Letterman makes jokes about people he admires and likes, for example--Martha Stewart. Letterman is a comic. That is what he does. Therefore, I don't see how you could gadge popularity or downfall by him. You could look at it this way, if it was someone no one cared about, or wasn't still successful/popular, he wouldn't be talking about them at all! That shows me that she still has what it takes.

[tuigirl]

Honestly........you MEN!!! Am I the only woman here who wonders whether you guys have nothing better to do than to argue over Stevie......SO, back to the question..... who's the most talented member of FM ( I assume as this is the Rumours Board, then you mean just the Rumours lineup, so Peter Green and co. don't count!!)

NO.1 Lindsey ( because he writes and sings, plays great, looks georgous.. that probably doesn't count but what the heck!!....produces, and most other stuff)

No. 2 Stevie ( she writes and sings too, plays her tambo after a fashion and dances occasionally)

No. 3 Christine (writes, sings and plays)

No. 4 Mick and John (in no particular order...both play)

Anyway just an ordinary music fans opinion!!

[blinker12]

I became a Fleetwood Mac fan in 1990, after the release of "Behind the Mask." It was a strange time to become a fan, because Mac were really at or near their lowest point of popularity in 15 years. Anyway, I was in high school at the time, and I remember feeling like I had to keep my love of Mac and Stevie secret _ that's how unpopular they were. NOBODY respected Mac back then. In the eyes of most young people, they were just a big, galumphing dinosaur of a band that made syrupy pop music. Stevie, in particular, was considered ridiculous. I remember reviews at the time referring to her as a Baby Jane-like character: aging, fattening up but still clinging to the clothes and hair she wore in her youth.

So, Johnny Stew, I think it IS fair to say that Mac and Stevie were regarded as has-beens for a fairly long period _ say, 1988 to 1995. Fans (especially young fans) felt the need to remain closeted. Courtney Love, Billy Corgan and Sheryl Crow hadn't come around yet to name-check Lindsey and Stevie.

Now, is it fair to say Stevie and Mac lost their talent during the 1988-1995 period? No, I don't think so. I don't think you ever really lose talent; I think you're born with it. But was the music they made uninspired? IMO, yes. I mean, "Time"? The new tracks on "Timespace"? Most of "Street Angel"? Pretty disappointing stuff. And Stevie's voice was really at its low point during this period, too. Flat and inflexible.

Thankfully, both Mac and Stevie seem to have been rejuvenated by "The Dance" reunion. Carnevaca, you say Stevie hasn't written a good song in 15 years, but I think her writing has shown a lot of improvement recently. Some of the stuff on TISL is overproduced, but there are some very well-crafted new songs on there: "Love Is," "Trouble in Shangri-La," "Bombay Sapphires" and "Love Changes" spring to mind. And her lyrics have become much more concise. I don't think she was capable of writing lyrics as direct as those in "Love Changes" in the early 1990s.
As for her singing: that, too, is on the rebound. Check out the high notes on "Sorcerer" or the soft, tender delivery of "It's Only Love." She's not bellowing everything at the top of her lungs anymore; she's rediscovered subtlety.

I think we should just admit that Mac and Stevie did go through a pretty uninspired period. Should they be forgiven for that? Sure. But now they're back, making some really relevant, tuneful music. They're back in touch with their talent!

P.S. I think this is a really interesting discussion and I'm glad we're having it.

[CarneVaca]

Brian:

"Well hey now, hold on a minute. I agree with a lot of what you said, but 'Her voice is shot?'"

I honestly did not mean that as a cheap shot. I accept that most folks around here still love (or like) her voice. But in my opinion, when you compare it to the voice that recorded Landslide, Dreams and Sara, it is shot.

Johnny Stew:

"And I don't think anything he said was ever 'anti-Stevie' at all."

That may come down to a matter of interpretation. After all, I have posted comments here that I thought were funny only to be villified for being "negative." But that you would interpret Letterman's remarks as anything but negative against her is up there with Clinton questioning the meaning of "is." Letterman may not have meant any malice, but he was pissed. And that came through clearly.

"In that time, she had two Top 20 albums (one hitting the Top 10), a Top 40 'best of' compilation, and six Hot 100 charted singles (two of which were Top 20 hits, and a third hitting the Top 5)..."

There are many albums that hit the Top 20 only to disappear into extinction quickly. This is all relative, Johnny, as you know. What's a quick hit in the Top 20 for someone who was in a band that held the No. 1 spot for how many weeks and sold a gazillion copies of Rumours? Truly, from the mid 80s to about 1997, Stevie Nicks was mostly an object of ridicule, despite the tiny victories she may have had on the charts.

[CarneVaca]

Hey, Blinker, that is the best assessment I've seen on this thread so far. I confess I am not intimate with the Shangri-La stuff. I heard it once or twice and was unimpressed.

[joe68]

So you had your chance to "let me have it" and yet you took the high road. Wow! You might actually have some class after all. Good for you! You should be proud...

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by joe68
So you had your chance to "let me have it" and yet you took the high road. Wow! You might actually have some class after all. Good for you! You should be proud...

There you go trying to bait me again. But you're just not worth the trouble.

[joe68]

Now if you put that much thought into all your posts from now on, my work here is done.

Be nice and take care!

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by joe68
Now if you put that much thought into all your posts from now on, my work here is done.

Be nice and take care!

Don't flatter yourself. All you've done thus far is show that you really have nothing to contribute. While people have disagreed with my comments here, at least I've added to the discussion. And I've kept my end of it civil, as have most other posters. You came in with the intent of baiting and attacking me, and perhaps you're disappointed that I didn't let you have it. Or perhaps you think you're on some kind of mission? That's pathetic.

[Bella Figura]

here's my list:

1) Stevie
2) Lindsey
3) Peter Green
4) Christine
5) Bob Welch

As you can see, I have a preference for the singer/songwriters of the group...everyone defines talent within the realm of their own life experiences...

[joe68]

I visit this site to find out new information, info that the Nicksfix will not print because its not yet "official". I could not care less about rating songs, who's the most talented member, or what year Stevie had the best hair, hence, I do not contribute to those posts.

What I do care about is consistently reading posts by people who
strike me as rude and argumentative. I see no reason for it and sometimes I feel the need to speak up, which usually only causes more discord.

So I apologize Carnevaca for daring to state my opinion. I only hope you are as passionate about things that really matter as you are about expressing your opinions on this site.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by joe68
I visit this site to find out new information, info that the Nicksfix will not print because its not yet "official". I could not care less about rating songs, who's the most talented member, or what year Stevie had the best hair, hence, I do not contribute to those posts.

What I do care about is consistently reading posts by people who
strike me as rude and argumentative. I see no reason for it and sometimes I feel the need to speak up, which usually only causes more discord.

So I apologize Carnevaca for daring to state my opinion. I only hope you are as passionate about things that really matter as you are about expressing your opinions on this site.

Dude, from what I can see you insist on being argumentative with me. I care not what opinions you decide to express. That's up to you. But you came in here with the express purpose of attacking me. You claim you're apologizing, then you deliver another shot. You know nothing about me. When I said I wasn't going to reply in kind, you continued to insist on addressing me. You're insignificant to me. I simply don't care whether you like my opinions. I don't like some opinions here, and I simply debate those who express them. I attack if I'm attacked. Yet I've chosen to not attack you back. So why don't you just let it drop, dude? Seems to me you're the one needing attention here.

[joe68]

You found me out! I do need the attention! I want so much to be significant in your universe!

But I see you cant stop posting replies either. So now, having the final word, I will let this drop. It just kind of fits into my needy personality.

Have fun, board!

[bjk3047]

Originally posted by tuigirl
Honestly........you MEN!!! Am I the only woman here who wonders whether you guys have nothing better to do than to argue over Stevie......

OH YOU WOMEN!!! Always over-simplifying things. If you took the care to read the posts, you'd find out that we were debating what constitutes talent. In my opinion, that's a much more interesting and thought provoking concept than (no offense intended) yet another top 10 list. Not to criticize anyone in the least, it seems discussion has been sucked out of the proceedings and have become a giant version of the movie "High Fidelity". But whatever, that's only what I think.
-Brian