Bobby Hunt & Doug Graves

[Mr Scarrott]

Does anyone have any opinion about whether these two were official members of the band, however briefly, in 1974? There seems to be a bit of ambiguity about this- in Mick's autobiography for example he talks about the band having "personnel spasms" (or at least I think that was the phrase). They aren't listed as members in the booklet that accompanies the Chain , however.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

Does anyone have any opinion about whether these two were official members of the band, however briefly, in 1974? There seems to be a bit of ambiguity about this- in Mick's autobiography for example he talks about the band having "personnel spasms" (or at least I think that was the phrase). They aren't listed as members in the booklet that accompanies the Chain , however.

Rolling Stone Nov 74:

"...But the real Fleetwood Mac is accenting the future – and right now that's the tour, a 43-date swing that ends December 1st – with yet another addition, Doug Graves on keyboards."

The question remains though, were they ever told "you're in the band" or were they told "we are hiring you for this tour"?

We will never know because Fleetwood will only tell us the story that he wants us to hear. Apparently if you have been keeping up with other threads on here, he might want us to forget that whole period between PG and SN & LB.

EDIT:

Mick's book says "We had some personnel spasms when we added a keyboardist, a black guy who was a friend of Bob, but he didn't last long. Then, to fill out the sound, we added another keyboardist in the person of Doug Graves, who'd been an engineer on Heroes. He was better, and didn't last either."

Poor old Robert Hunt, isn't named, is referred to simply by the colour of his skin, and to top it all off it is suggested he wasn't particularly that good.

[HomerMcvie]

I don't think they were ever consider "members". Since they were down to a 4 piece, they were just added for the tour, to flesh out the sound.

[Mr Scarrott]

Thanks for your input. Somehow, Mick's take on it in his book leads me, fwiw, to think that they were considered to be "members" of the band at the time, rather than backing musicians (like Nigel Watson, Brett Tuggle, Asante, Steve Thoma amongst others) albeit just for parts of the Heroes tour. That they never recorded anything with the band muddies it slightly.

I guess part of the problem is that there is also a distinction between who was ever legally part of the band, rather than simply artistically- presumably like Brunning, Vito, Mason, Bramlett and maybe Burnette, Weston & Walker. I don't suppose that even Nicks and Buckingham were legally part of the band, rather than hired hands right from December 31st 1974. They were put on a salary, weren't they?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

Thanks for your input. Somehow, Mick's take on it in his book leads me, fwiw, to think that they were considered to be "members" of the band at the time, rather than backing musicians (like Nigel Watson, Brett Tuggle, Asante, Steve Thoma amongst others) albeit just for parts of the Heroes tour. That they never recorded anything with the band muddies it slightly.

The tour poster that I've seen just uses the back sleeve picture from HAHTF.

I guess part of the problem is that there is also a distinction between who was ever legally part of the band, rather than simply artistically- presumably like Brunning, Vito, Mason, Bramlett and maybe Burnette, Weston & Walker. I don't suppose that even Nicks and Buckingham were legally part of the band, rather than hired hands right from December 31st 1974. They were put on a salary, weren't they?

I look at it like a law firm. There are para legals (i.e. Tuggle, Heywood, et. al.) and attorneys, which are divided into associates (Mason, Bramlett, Burnette, et. al.) and partners (Mick, John, Christine, et. al.).

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

The tour poster that I've seen just uses the back sleeve picture from HAHTF.


I look at it like a law firm. There are para legals (i.e. Tuggle, Heywood, et. al.) and attorneys, which are divided into associates (Mason, Bramlett, Burnette, et. al.) and partners (Mick, John, Christine, et. al.).

Yeah so Hunt & Graves were the para legals. S&L were on a salary to start but were considered members. After the legal stuff it's understandable them being afraid to trust others (and that's probably why they made it out to them like it was a temp to perm thing), but they knew they could survive as a quartet, and let's be honest, that was the intention once Welch left and they tried to initially get (just) Lindsey. I think Bob said at his Q&A that he did have the option of staying with S&L joining but he chose not to. So the "partners" must have drawn that line in the sand, 4 minimum members, but more is OK (i.e. when they brought in extra hands e.g. Danny, Walker, etc.).

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

Thanks for your input. Somehow, Mick's take on it in his book leads me, fwiw, to think that they were considered to be "members" of the band at the time, rather than backing musicians (like Nigel Watson, Brett Tuggle, Asante, Steve Thoma amongst others) albeit just for parts of the Heroes tour. That they never recorded anything with the band muddies it slightly.

I guess part of the problem is that there is also a distinction between who was ever legally part of the band, rather than simply artistically- presumably like Brunning, Vito, Mason, Bramlett and maybe Burnette, Weston & Walker. I don't suppose that even Nicks and Buckingham were legally part of the band, rather than hired hands right from December 31st 1974. They were put on a salary, weren't they?

???? I don't understand your "problem." It's pretty clear. All the people you cited above were official band members. Any ancillary support for their live shows are not considered official members. For instance, Lori and Sharon -- yes they are part of the touring band, but not official members of the group itself.

Bob Brunning was just a stand in for John.

Can't image: "Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome Fleetood Mac: Lindsey! Stevie! Christine! Mick! John! Lori! Sharon! Brett! Lighting Guy! Sound Guy! Stevie's Dog!

There is a clear distinction between band members and support players. Lots of big bands have support players. Sometimes they are part of the touring bands for years on end. They are associates of the band, not members.

[chriskisn]

Ok so imagine that Rick Vito and Billy Burnette had quit after the Tango tour but before they had ever actually featured on an album. Would that make them members or hired hands? The intention was there when they were hired to make them members of the band, but perhaps it didn't work out, perhaps there was a personality clash, etc, and they had departed.

As for Mr Brunning, he was hired perhaps as a temporary member, but he was still a member and if John McVie hadn't left Mayall, Brunning might have still been a member of the band right up until he passed away.

I'm not saying Doug Graves or Bobby Hunt were members, but perhaps, especially in Doug Graves case, they were told they were in the band as members (which there is at least some evidence to suggest HE thought he was in the band permanently).

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

Does anyone have any opinion about whether these two were official members of the band, however briefly, in 1974? There seems to be a bit of ambiguity about this- in Mick's autobiography for example he talks about the band having "personnel spasms" (or at least I think that was the phrase). They aren't listed as members in the booklet that accompanies the Chain , however.

They are not official members at all. They were hired support musicians for that one tour. That's all. A blip.