The "Tango In The Night" Phonogenics 101 Podcast is live

[JeremyGloff]

Hello friends on The Ledge

Tonight we spent two hours dissecting and discussing "Tango In The Night" - it was so much fun! We were supposed to do this last week but I'm in Florida and Ian missed us by an hour and a half south. Hurting for my neighbors further south and it was lovely to talk about FM tonight with friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TQXmARo-7w

[jbrownsjr]

I'm 20 minutes in and loving this. Nice listen at 630am.

[jbrownsjr]

I remember Book Of Miracles was on the back side of a 45. It was credited to both Buck and Nicks.

Just from memory. Then on her solo album, I remember Juliet, Buck wasn't credited.

[jbrownsjr]

Jeremy, you should start each show with: "WELCOME TO THE ROOM EVERYONE!!" in honor of WTTRS

[BLY]

I still think Stevie is in the mix of Everywhere. Mick also confirms it in his book.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by BLY

I still think Stevie is in the mix of Everywhere. Mick also confirms it in his book.

Really?
I thought this was discussed before and it was vague. We know she threw a tantrum and wanted to be on Everywhere but was not around. Mick stated something that Stevie was right and Lindsey layered in Stevie's voice around the album. I am paraphrasing but he never wrote, Stevie sang on Everywhere and the song was recut or something. It was rather vague and from what we now know of Tango sessions, Lindsey duplicated her voice. Its also possible Mick did not want to let the cat out of the bag when he was writing the book.

Maybe I am wrong but someone can post the book statement.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Really?
I thought this was discussed before and it was vague. We know she threw a tantrum and wanted to be on Everywhere but was not around. Mick stated something that Stevie was right and Lindsey layered in Stevie's voice around the album. I am paraphrasing but he never wrote, Stevie sang on Everywhere and the song was recut or something. It was rather vague and from what we now know of Tango sessions, Lindsey duplicated her voice. Its also possible Mick did not want to let the cat out of the bag when he was writing the book.

Maybe I am wrong but someone can post the book statement.

From my memory, they did put her on it and both women were happy in the end. Or both were right on their stance.

[Macfan4life]

I finally got around to watching this and really enjoyed it. The panel was often equally divided so it really needed that 5th wheel to break the tie breaker.
I have always described Tango as a Lindsey solo album with appearances of the other members. As with any Lindsey effort, the production values are very strong and high. No one can disagree that Christine brought her "A" game. She easily could have had 3 hit singles off the album but they wanted/needed to spread the wealth. Like the panel, I agree Little Lies is one of the best group efforts of the entire band history and unfortunately a rarity to hear all 3 vocalists on one song on Tango. My first listen driving home from the mall were Little Lies, Isn't It Midnight, and Tango In The Night. Little Lies would have been a #1 song if it was the first single. But Chris had the lead off Mirage and it was Lindsey's turn since Stevie never got a lead off single. It made sense since he did so much of the work and was about to leave the band. I agree with Jeremy that Isnt It Midnight should have been a single and IMHO the first single. We all waited 5 years and it would have blown everyone away. I agree with the panel that Stevie is not on Everywhere. Her vocals are not there. Lindsey even did a better job duplicating her vocals on Family Man. It was either Musician magazine or Guitarist magazine that reviewed Tango and really loved the title track. It compared it to Led Zepplin's The Ocean when the guitars come crashing down. As soon as Lindsey its cooking, the song fades which is a shame
The overall album sound is a bit too synth programmed pop for me. But I do see the quality of most of the songs.
I would have opened the album with Tango In The Night and let Lindsey play out for another minute even if you needed to cut a song. The album needed a Stevie rocker. Anything with a beat would have been better than Whatsa matta baby and the oddity of Welcome To The Room Sara. While Caroline is a pure pop creation I would have cut it. I am not crazy about Family Man but the acoustic guitar on it is so spectacular that I could feel guilty about axing it. Without knowing the context of Welcome/Sara is what makes the song so odd. We like to sing along to feelings and communications to another person with verse. We had no idea in 1987 what the song was about and hearing Tara, DeJa'Vu, Frontline, choir, and cuts just did not make any sense. Its clear not much time was given to Stevie's songs and they were pretty much slapped on the album. I do agree with the panel that Stevie's rough vocal on Seven Wonders makes it work. It would not work as much with a sweet vocal of her earlier career. It adds some girth to the song. What was not mentioned is how Lindsey took the original vocal and sped it up. The original demo track is nowhere near as good as the album track because of Lindsey's trickery. Its a completely different song. Yes you can hear her brandy slurs with sounding like edge instead of end. I always liked the fact she improvised with the Emmuline line. You can tell its a live vocal track after several shots of brandy. While it is the last studio album of these 5, I don't really count it because it's not much of a group effort which is why IMHO you have to go back to 1982 and Mirage to say that. We dont hear much Christine playing keyboards, John playing bass, and there is a drum machine on many tracks. All of that hurts the album's appeal in my book. For what Lindsey had to deal with it came off as a very good effort. The album achieved pop success but should have sold more for its radio friendly play. I know it sold very well but was surprised it never cracked the top 5 even upon its initial release. Fleetwood Mac seemed to always be changing its sound post Rumours. They went experimental for Tusk, more classic light pop for Mirage, and synth bubble gum pop for Tango. Its not one of my favorite Mac albums because of the lack of traditional parts but to quote Chris on her solo album "its pleasing to my ears" If Big Love was a single off Go Insane it would have barely charted but with the Fleetwood Mac name it because a top 5 hit. No wonder Lindsey goes insane
BTW I vote its Christine on Ricky Lindsey is only singing back up and the "tell me" parts. Its funny how much confusion there is to who is singing what on Tango. JellyBean did the Little Lies remix and it was a dance release. The Big Love 12" was equally as good with those bouncy keyboard parts around the chorus. They should have kept those parts on the album track. I give the album a solid 6.5. Chris is on fire and Lindey's title track are the highlights of this album. Where the band is playing together there are definitely some magic Mac moments but they are too uncommon. The band was under pressure to make Mirage a more radio friendly album. With Tango I believe there was even more pressure after 5 years to have a very radio friendly pop album especially to get Mick out of bankruptcy. That was a factor in Lindsey agreed to make the album. Didn't he say something like "I did my part" when he left. I hope Lindsey writes a book someday or has a very detailed Tango discussion because there are some wild stories there.
Great observation Jeremy about Lindsey always getting the last vocals on Mac tracks on this album even when he is not the lead singer. Very true.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Really?
I thought this was discussed before and it was vague. We know she threw a tantrum and wanted to be on Everywhere but was not around. Mick stated something that Stevie was right and Lindsey layered in Stevie's voice around the album. I am paraphrasing but he never wrote, Stevie sang on Everywhere and the song was recut or something. It was rather vague and from what we now know of Tango sessions, Lindsey duplicated her voice. Its also possible Mick did not want to let the cat out of the bag when he was writing the book.

Maybe I am wrong but someone can post the book statement.

We can conclude she finally sang harmonies in Everywhere, but actually the (first) book doesn't mention that explicitly. Listening the song I can't identify Stevie, as I do in Little Lies. I would say it was Little Lies what they remixed after this episode:


After the playback was finished, she began to storm around the studio like a tornado. "It's like I'm not even on this record," she complained. "I can't hear myself at all." I knew Stevie pretty well, and could tell she was angry. Then she threatened us. "All right, maybe I wasn't able to get to the studio that much, but how is it going to look when the record comes out and I might have to tell Rolling Stone that I didn't work on it?"

Christine McVie's eyes narrowed. She'd had a couple of glasses of wine, and wasn't about to be trifled with. "OK, Stevie," she said, "what are you so upset about?" "I should be singing on 'Everywhere,'" Stevie said. "You should hear me singing harmony on that song." "I wanted you to sing on it too," Chris said in measured tones that signaled she was furious, "but you weren't here. In fact, we've been working for a year and you were only with us for a couple of days. Now why don't you just say you're sorry and we'll work it out?"

Omits gracefully, Stevie capitulated in front of the whole band, and we gleefully layered her vocals into the mix of the album, which now sounded indeed more like Fleetwood Mac. Stevie had been right after all, and so had Christine.

Don't know if he tells more about this in his second book.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Villavic

We can conclude she finally sang harmonies in Everywhere, but actually the (first) book doesn't mention that explicitly. Listening the song I can't identify Stevie, as I do in Little Lies. I would say it was Little Lies what they remixed after this episode:


After the playback was finished, she began to storm around the studio like a tornado. "It's like I'm not even on this record," she complained. "I can't hear myself at all." I knew Stevie pretty well, and could tell she was angry. Then she threatened us. "All right, maybe I wasn't able to get to the studio that much, but how is it going to look when the record comes out and I might have to tell Rolling Stone that I didn't work on it?"

Christine McVie's eyes narrowed. She'd had a couple of glasses of wine, and wasn't about to be trifled with. "OK, Stevie," she said, "what are you so upset about?" "I should be singing on 'Everywhere,'" Stevie said. "You should hear me singing harmony on that song." "I wanted you to sing on it too," Chris said in measured tones that signaled she was furious, "but you weren't here. In fact, we've been working for a year and you were only with us for a couple of days. Now why don't you just say you're sorry and we'll work it out?"

Omits gracefully, Stevie capitulated in front of the whole band, and we gleefully layered her vocals into the mix of the album, which now sounded indeed more like Fleetwood Mac. Stevie had been right after all, and so had Christine.

Don't know if he tells more about this in his second book.

I've read his first book 50 times. I've owned the second one for probably 5 years, and have never cracked it. Once I knew what a liar he was, I just don't have nearly the interest I once did.

[Macfan4life]

I know what Mick said in his book but IMHO the proof is in the pudding. I think Lindsey's work on Family Man sounds much more like Stevie than Everywhere. She could be there turned way down low. But Stevie's voice is distinctive and I cant hear her. I am not saying Mick is lying but confused. He clearly did not spill the beans of what Lindsey was up to on Tango with imitating her voice which shows lots about his integrity. Maybe they did add her vocals and liked the original track better and kept the original. I wish Stevie's voice was on it because it would have made it a group effort. We would need Lindsey's take. Lindsey is very crafty. I swear during moments of Buck/Vie I can hear Stevie but I know its Lindsey. I wish her vocals were also added to Mystified. But lets be real. In 1986 Stevie's voice was not good for harmonizing. It could have hurt those songs. But we have to be thankful for the Tango we got instead of the Tango of our dreams. I say all the time, Lindsey has one hell of a book in him

If we could ask a follow up question to Mick's book. Where exactly were the Stevie vocals "layered?" When I read his book in 1990 I instantly thought of Family Man but that is not Stevie. So where exactly Mick Fleetwood were her vocals "layered?" IMHO Mick sounds like he's covering for Lindsey instead of describing what he did. Or maybe Mick was so high that he had no idea what Lindsey was up do and also thought Stevie's voice was layered. I believed the "layered" urban legend until about 10 years ago when I found the truth.

One LOL moment during this Tango critique is when Jeremy talked about the live version of Everywhere in 1987. They were making fun of Stevie's parts I WANNA BE WITH YOU. He said that someone said its like Stevie having a gong on stage and just banging it over and over disrupting the song

[HomerMcvie]

I'll bet anything that the payoff for his firing includes a clause prohibiting him from writing a book about the band.

He's too classy for that, anyway.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I'll bet anything that the payoff for his firing includes a clause prohibiting him from writing a book about the band.

He's too classy for that, anyway.

God, can you imagine??? What a book that would be.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I'll bet anything that the payoff for his firing includes a clause prohibiting him from writing a book about the band.

He's too classy for that, anyway.

I really don’t think so, Homer. Lindsey sued for tour royalties he lost out on as a result of being fired- and that’s what he got when they all settled. I doubt that Lindsey would have any desire to write a book about the band, but I don’t believe for one second that he or his lawyers would have agreed to such a request. Nor do I think that John, Christine, or Mick would care whether he writes a book.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by bwboy

I really don’t think so, Homer. Lindsey sued for tour royalties he lost out on as a result of being fired- and that’s what he got when they all settled. I doubt that Lindsey would have any desire to write a book about the band, but I don’t believe for one second that he or his lawyers would have agreed to such a request. Nor do I think that John, Christine, or Mick would care whether he writes a book.

I bet $tevie Mgmt would care. I think Mick would care, maybe not the McVies.