BuckVie Cleveland 2017

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Which is the primary reason I preferred the 18-19 band in that moment. Christine showed the world she could still kick ass.

I felt like Lindsey diminished her. (To be fair, she never complained about it).

I think she liked Lindsey being in charge. She always preferred being a side~man~.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

They probably meant that (I've read here, but don't know) Lindsey loves playing with the karaoke tracks these days. If Christine's too old to do it, just let the karaoke machine do it.

Wasn't it when Brett died, and Lindsey was on tour?, they didn't even replace him? Just unmute another karaoke track....

30yo Lindsey would kick 70yo's Lindsey's ass for this.

I couldn’t imagine a scenario where Lindsey would somehow keep Christine from playing, but what you said makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Which is the primary reason I preferred the 18-19 band in that moment. Christine showed the world she could still kick ass.

I felt like Lindsey diminished her. (To be fair, she never complained about it).

When you listen to her body of work without him, I feel (at times) he absolutely diminished her.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I think she liked Lindsey being in charge. She always preferred being a side~man~.

I wonder if she ever even wanted to sing when she was in Chicken Shack? Chicken Shack was Stan’s band and she was just the keyboardist. She even made an effort to look kind of butch to not draw attention to herself in the early days. I have a weird suspicion that Mike Vernon pushed it, given the novelty of a woman in a blues band. Three of Chicken Shack’s first four singles featured Christine on lead vocals, which is weird, considering Stan was the primary frontman by far.

Even in the early days with Fleetwood Mac, she played more of a supporting role, with singing and songwriting being more of a formality. Danny dominated FG and BT and Bob became the dominant creative force with MTM and HAHTF. Penguin was the exception, where Christine being more of an equal force in the band, but then she reverted back to being more of a supporting character in the band.

All of which makes her being the one with the breakthrough hit single and the most singles all the more crazy. It wasn’t Bob, Stevie, or Lindsey, it was Christine.

[jbrownsjr]

And if you look at Penguin to Heroes, you see the sheer quality of her work.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I wonder if she ever even wanted to sing when she was in Chicken Shack? Chicken Shack was Stan’s band and she was just the keyboardist. She even made an effort to look kind of butch to not draw attention to herself in the early days. I have a weird suspicion that Mike Vernon pushed it, given the novelty of a woman in a blues band. Three of Chicken Shack’s first four singles featured Christine on lead vocals, which is weird, considering Stan was the primary frontman by far.

Even in the early days with Fleetwood Mac, she played more of a supporting role, with singing and songwriting being more of a formality. Danny dominated FG and BT and Bob became the dominant creative force with MTM and HAHTF. Penguin was the exception, where Christine being more of an equal force in the band, but then she reverted back to being more of a supporting character in the band.

All of which makes her being the one with the breakthrough hit single and the most singles all the more crazy. It wasn’t Bob, Stevie, or Lindsey, it was Christine.

I don't think she enjoyed singing in Chicken Shack, she had very little confidence in her voice at that time. You may be right that Mike Vernon may have pushed her a bit..? Also stan was so odd, and he couldn't sing well... and maybe turned some people off with his antics. chris i think had that 'girl next door' appeal that audiences probably got into, and that sultry voice. i think she far preferred being the supporting character. she said Over My Head was the last song they ever thought would be a single.

mick and John have both said she was not the type of girl you could push around, but at the same time when she was younger I think she was not as strong in terms of her professional career...she felt pushed into the solo album, etc...and it was very much a man's world back then. I think by dressing 'tomboyishly' she was trying NOT to draw attention to herself. She said in 1968 that 'the one thing John did to change me was to get me to dress more like a girl' lol. but even in later years, she would be the first to say she preferred to be in jeans. she was never a girly girl. which maybe was why she was able to function as well as she did on the road in the early days, with no frills.

--Lis

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

she was never a girly girl. which maybe was why she was able to function as well as she did on the road in the early days, with no frills.

On a similar note, once Fleetwood Mac moved to Los Angeles, was suddenly in Top 40 with HAHTF, and touring with Jefferson Starship (as opposed to Deep Purple), I have no doubt there was pressure on Christine to become more of a Grace Slick type front-woman. So, when there was suddenly the prospect of a girly-girl front-woman to own that lane joining Fleetwood Mac, I bet Christine was absolutely relieved, if not thrilled. That had to take enormous pressure off her.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bwboy

Anywaayyy… back to the topic- I do wish I had seen Lindsey and Christine this tour. I was just really busy at the time, and while I thought the album was decent, I didn’t feel much of an emotional connection. Or at least enough of one to make the drive. Clearly that was a huge error in my thinking. After I saw Lindsey and FM solo in November, I decided then and there I would make every effort to see them live anytime they toured again. Of course, I’ve already broken that promise, as I skipped Lindsey’s last tour, but that was due to Covid and because he didn’t perform anywhere even remotely close to me.

And now it’s truly too late.

you do what you can and need to, whatever works for you.

i am glad i managed to see Lindsey in Cleveland, Philly and Charlottesville on his spring 2022 leg. i had tickets for Tysons which is the closest to me, but that was the show that got cancelled because of COVID. same with several shows i had tickets for in November 2022 which were all cancelled because of COVID.

still happy for people in Europe who at least got Berlin and London... when i read their reviews talking about all the solo songs it just dawned on me how they never had a chance to hear his solo songs live before and how lucky we are stateside.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

When you listen to her body of work without him, I feel (at times) he absolutely diminished her.

Do you think Mick or John ever told Lindsey that he disrespected Christine in that way?

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

And if you look at Penguin to Heroes, you see the sheer quality of her work.

Yes, she didn’t “need” him to “help” her. Prove Your Love and Bad Loser are proof of that.

Are her songs generally improved by Lindsey’s presence? Yes—and that’s because of his energy. His freneticism alongside her ultra cool is magic.

But—the ideas and the craftsmanship of the songs are all hers. In fact, sometimes, IMO, his presence did NOT improve a song. He knew how to make them radio darlings but sometimes at the cost of muting her keyboards or mucking with her voice.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Do you think Mick or John ever told Lindsey that he disrespected Christine in that way?

Disrespected, no. Look at YMLF. That's pretty much all her. He adds an amazing guitar solo. And they both play off each other on this one. I just believe he isn't the "do all end all" cutting edge she needs.
Having said that, they really work well together. Lots of magic.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

I don't think she enjoyed singing in Chicken Shack, she had very little confidence in her voice at that time. You may be right that Mike Vernon may have pushed her a bit..? Also stan was so odd, and he couldn't sing well... and maybe turned some people off with his antics. chris i think had that 'girl next door' appeal that audiences probably got into, and that sultry voice. i think she far preferred being the supporting character. she said Over My Head was the last song they ever thought would be a single.

mick and John have both said she was not the type of girl you could push around, but at the same time when she was younger I think she was not as strong in terms of her professional career...she felt pushed into the solo album, etc...and it was very much a man's world back then. I think by dressing 'tomboyishly' she was trying NOT to draw attention to herself. She said in 1968 that 'the one thing John did to change me was to get me to dress more like a girl' lol. but even in later years, she would be the first to say she preferred to be in jeans. she was never a girly girl. which maybe was why she was able to function as well as she did on the road in the early days, with no frills.

--Lis

Vernon definitely pushed her—and thankfully so. She had a shocking lack of confidence and feared being the center of attention. In the ranks of the RUMOURS lineup, this was an endearing quality, but at the beginning she must have been terrified any time she assumed the spotlight.

You note that she played down any girliness in those early days. I definitely see that from her initial tours with FM. There are times when she altered her voice to sound like a male belter! Live versions of “Crazy Bout You Baby” (Madison Blues) bear this out.

Her vocal attack on Morning Rain is straight-up butch. It appears to have been a choice since an earlier version (called “Start Again”) shows her singing more like the woman we came to know on later albums. (The earlier version is also in a higher key.)

I think when she started, she was super-conscious of joining an all-male guitar-heavy band with a history of tough blues. She wanted to support that legacy while making her niche. It took a few years (1973) to fully realize her style.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Yes, she didn’t “need” him to “help” her. Prove Your Love and Bad Loser are proof of that.

Are her songs generally improved by Lindsey’s presence? Yes—and that’s because of his energy. His freneticism alongside her ultra cool is magic.

But—the ideas and the craftsmanship of the songs are all hers. In fact, sometimes, IMO, his presence did NOT improve a song. He knew how to make them radio darlings but sometimes at the cost of muting her keyboards or mucking with her voice.

Stevie needed a developer.

Christine, at most, occasionally needed an editor and benefited from the aesthetic touches Lindsey brought to her songs. I still think if there had been time to be forward thinking, “Come A Little Bit Closer” would have been an FM radio staple. But, they had bigger problems to contend with.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Do you think Mick or John ever told Lindsey that he disrespected Christine in that way?

For Christine specifically, no, and they wouldn’t have had to. Christine was a force to be reckoned with in her own right. She was also the most accomplished musician in Fleetwood Mac, so she could hold her own with him.

John has publicly stated he felt disrespected by Lindsey and Mick had to tell Lindsey on more than one occasion that he was part of a band and having others playing on his songs was the expectation.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Stevie needed a developer.

One of the Stevie biography books says Tom Moncrieff developed Stevie's ideas and then Stevie presented the developed recordings to Lindsey. Example was Sara and Smile At You.