Say You Will turns 18 this month

[Macfan4life]

Now, who feels old LOL

Believe it or not but Say You Will was released this month back in 2003. The song Peacekeeper always takes me back to the Iraq war invasion because that song was breaking right as the invasion was happening and thought it was sort of spooky because we all wanted a peacekeeper at that time.

Anyway, you can tell I am a history buff to always remind everyone of certain dates, etc. I know this album does not get much love around here but IMHO its a musical masterpiece and the best Mac album since Rumours/Tusk era. I just watched Destiny Rules the other night in its entirety that I never did before. I had seen so many snippets here and there and never watched the complete documentary. OMG will it make you feel old. It was shot almost 20 years ago. I had to laugh at the phones they were using and the cars they were driving and OMG was everyone so young in their 50s! Poor Lindsey, its almost like he is Charlie Brown with a football and the record company and the rest of the band are Lucy. Lindsey's only concern was another Tusk like double album to showcase the artistic value of the band. He put off yet another solo album, brought those songs, was going to surrender royalties just to put something out he would be so proud of. The record company and the band liked the idea but realized the younger generation who buys albums does not care about artistic value and how "deep" the album is. Lindsey did not get his way but the album ended up still a tug of war being much longer than a conventional album. They really fought over mixing. The sad part for me was Mick saying when the album was being recorded how disappointed Lindsey and the band would be to only sell 500k copies so that was their benchmark of a commercial failure. Sadly, that's what the album ended up selling more or less and everyone was disappointed but especially because of how they worked their asses off on this album. I think Stevie's writing was some of her best. But OMG we FINALLY get Smile at You and Running Through the Garden on an album. Hello!! That alone is enough to love the album. Musically this one of the Mac's BEST album IMHO. Yes Rumours has more catchy stuff but musically speaking Say You Will is much more intricate and artsy. Yes of course the album needed Christine. But like John said, if she was there, she would not want to be there and it would have ruined the mood for the entire album. Maybe because of the mixing controversy I thought maybe that is why some say its cold? I like every song on this album but my highlights are:

What's the world Coming to
Ilumne
Thrown Down
Miranda - genius
Say You Will - its catchy for me
Smile at you
Running through the garden
Bleed to Love her
Everybody finds out - most explosive Mac song ever. Dear God listen to this song with headphones

I admire the effort. The effort shows. I don't judge albums or music by commercial success and they should be so proud of this album especially to go forward without Christine in a declining music industry time. I give this album a solid B+

[BLY]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Now, who feels old LOL

Believe it or not but Say You Will was released this month back in 2003. The song Peacekeeper always takes me back to the Iraq war invasion because that song was breaking right as the invasion was happening and thought it was sort of spooky because we all wanted a peacekeeper at that time.

Anyway, you can tell I am a history buff to always remind everyone of certain dates, etc. I know this album does not get much love around here but IMHO its a musical masterpiece and the best Mac album since Rumours/Tusk era. I just watched Destiny Rules the other night in its entirety that I never did before. I had seen so many snippets here and there and never watched the complete documentary. OMG will it make you feel old. It was shot almost 20 years ago. I had to laugh at the phones they were using and the cars they were driving and OMG was everyone so young in their 50s! Poor Lindsey, its almost like he is Charlie Brown with a football and the record company and the rest of the band are Lucy. Lindsey's only concern was another Tusk like double album to showcase the artistic value of the band. He put off yet another solo album, brought those songs, was going to surrender royalties just to put something out he would be so proud of. The record company and the band liked the idea but realized the younger generation who buys albums does not care about artistic value and how "deep" the album is. Lindsey did not get his way but the album ended up still a tug of war being much longer than a conventional album. They really fought over mixing. The sad part for me was Mick saying when the album was being recorded how disappointed Lindsey and the band would be to only sell 500k copies so that was their benchmark of a commercial failure. Sadly, that's what the album ended up selling more or less and everyone was disappointed but especially because of how they worked their asses off on this album. I think Stevie's writing was some of her best. But OMG we FINALLY get Smile at You and Running Through the Garden on an album. Hello!! That alone is enough to love the album. Musically this one of the Mac's BEST album IMHO. Yes Rumours has more catchy stuff but musically speaking Say You Will is much more intricate and artsy. Yes of course the album needed Christine. But like John said, if she was there, she would not want to be there and it would have ruined the mood for the entire album. Maybe because of the mixing controversy I thought maybe that is why some say its cold? I like every song on this album but my highlights are:

What's the world Coming to
Ilumne
Thrown Down
Miranda - genius
Say You Will - its catchy for me
Smile at you
Running through the garden
Bleed to Love her
Everybody finds out - most explosive Mac song ever. Dear God listen to this song with headphones

I admire the effort. The effort shows. I don't judge albums or music by commercial success and they should be so proud of this album especially to go forward without Christine in a declining music industry time. I give this album a solid B+

Great recap. It’s hard to believe it’s been 18 years. I also really like the album and only wished Christine recorded with them...which she was wiling to do. It would have made it a bit warmer and we could have got a”double album”. Oh and yes....Everybody Finds Out on headphones!

[aleuzzi]

18 years ago I felt a bittersweetness towards this release. I was glad a new studio album had come out but disappointed that Christine was not involved. How galling to be SO CLOSE to an actual studio follow up to the lineup that made Tango! I expected to be underwhelmed and admittedly was on the first listen. But then, after a few more tries, the album got under my skin and I admired how SUBSTANTIAL it really is. Substantial—that’s my prevailing critique of SYW. It’s uneven, possibly overlong, but meaty, innovative, and original. Lindsey and Stevie’s songs do not always hang together well but many of those very songs are impressive on an individual basis. Stevie’s tunes are especially strong, though two of Lindsey’s are among my favorites (Red Rover, Goodbye). I was and am sill moved by Illume. So often, Stevie exploits collective tragedies for self promotion but her performance of this song really puts you in the headspace of someone reeling from 9-11. Everybody Finds Out is amazeballs and Throw Down may be one of her best single songs since the 1970s.

So, yeah, I missed Christine and the way her songs often glued together the work of these star-crossed ex-lovers, but SYW is a genuine album, a real creative effort that, in terms of its integrity, surpasses MIRAGE and TANGO, both of which were created largely to ensure continued commercial success.

And I eventually got over the absence of Christine when, one year later, she gave us ITM, my favorite of her solo albums.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

18 years ago I felt a bittersweetness towards this release. I was glad a new studio album had come out but disappointed that Christine was not involved. How galling to be SO CLOSE to an actual studio follow up to the lineup that made Tango! I expected to be underwhelmed and admittedly was on the first listen. But then, after a few more tries, the album got under my skin and I admired how SUBSTANTIAL it really is. Substantial—that’s my prevailing critique of SYW. It’s uneven, possibly overlong, but meaty, innovative, and original. Lindsey and Stevie’s songs do not always hang together well but many of those very songs are impressive on an individual basis. Stevie’s tunes are especially strong, though two of Lindsey’s are among my favorites (Red Rover, Goodbye). I was and am sill moved by Illume. So often, Stevie exploits collective tragedies for self promotion but her performance of this song really puts you in the headspace of someone reeling from 9-11. Everybody Finds Out is amazeballs and Throw Down may be one of her best single songs since the 1970s.

So, yeah, I missed Christine and the way her songs often glued together the work of these star-crossed ex-lovers, but SYW is a genuine album, a real creative effort that, in terms of its integrity, surpasses MIRAGE and TANGO, both of which were created largely to ensure continued commercial success.

And I eventually got over the absence of Christine when, one year later, she gave us ITM, my favorite of her solo albums.

I agree with you on 3 major points.
To have ITM by Christine is a wonderful sacrafice win that she did not record SYW.

I also was a bit underwhelmed when I first listened. Most of it was meh. But after listening to it often made me completely understand and appreciate it like crazy. I mention headphones alot because I used to jog with this CD. Thats right kids, they actually had portable CD players with big head phones that you could take and listen to CDs where ever you wanted. I used to jog to this CD so I know it like the back of my hand. Even though long and unconventional, I appreciate every track and very few of them do I skip over. It was also nice to have Stevie really singing back up to Lindsey's songs so much. Almost like a Buck/Nicks album. On Tango we get "layered" in Stevie vocals (whatever that means). Was it Lindsey trying to be Stevie with a computer or did he actually take vocal tracks and layer them in. None of that here. I also have never heard Fleetwood Mac play so vividly and coordinated like this album. Just listening to John, Mick and Lindsey play on many songs like Everybody Finds Out is completely outrageously good.
Lastly, I also agree Thrown Down is her last best written song. But like Mick says on the documentary, its Stevie's best writing since Rumours.

So many Tusk like qualities to this album which confuses me because Tusk gets so much love on this board yet SYW thrown in the gutter i.e. thrown down.

I take my hat off to Lindsey for this album. I like his solo stuff but not crazy about some of it. I disliked Tango because it was too much Lindsey solo album sounding. This walks "a thin line" of Lindsey solo and with Fleetwood Mac brilliantly. I can hear his solo stuff but its got Mick, John and Stevie on the songs unlike the Tango stuff.
Well done Mr. Buckingham. I get it and I got it and SYW is brilliant.

BTW, I left Destiny Rules off my favorites list. That would make 10 songs that I officially love on the album. 10 songs makes a complete album IMHO. I like the other songs but these 10 are smack you in the face good.

[Street_Dreamer]

Nice to see the album is officially an adult. Now about some of those in the band...

[bwboy]

As a fan of Fleetwood Mac, I’m happy to see people share their love for Say You Will. Personally, I don’t care for the album at all, and skip virtually every song on it but 5. I love:

Thrown Down
Peacekeeper
Say You Will
What’s the World Coming To
Goodbye Baby

And even Goodbye Baby, a song I really like, sounds like a demo. Which would be fine, if it was a demo, but it’s not. I truly cannot understand the poor production on this song.

I’d also add that I was at opening night of this tour, and the audience reaction to the new songs was cold. People sitting down, bathroom breaks, going to the refreshment stands, looking at tour merchandise, I mean the audience was tuned out. Personally, I was shocked at how many new songs the band performed, and thought it was pretty brave, but the audience reaction helped explain why they dropped some of the new songs from the setlist later. It was obvious most of the audience hadn’t bought the new album.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I used to jog to this CD so I know it like the back of my hand. Even though long and unconventional, I appreciate every track and very few of them do I skip over.

I did this then and I do it now. Almost never listened to these songs in their intended sequence. It did help me get know individual songs but my tendency to do this also reflects my feelings on how the songs don’t necessarily glue together.

Still, I’m a fan of SYW.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

18 years ago I felt a bittersweetness towards this release. I was glad a new studio album had come out but disappointed that Christine was not involved..

And maybe that's why it's my least favorite album.

[On Ice]

Oh my 18 years- makes me feel older than BTM recently turning 31. Like BTM, I loved SYW when it came out- the crisp, clear guitars and interesting musical twists and turns made for an engaging listen. Hindsight though, the length makes it hard not to skip some of the weaker songs. I agree wholeheartedly that the inclusion of Christine would've taken that oh so slight annoying edge off the record. My favs are:

1. All of Stevie's songs except Silver Girl. Best is Destiny Rules followed by Smile at You and Everybody Finds Out. She is great vocally for the most part and the writing is solid throughout except the aforementioned track. I do have a preference for the Wall of Sound Thrown Down- what an amazing first single that would've made for SYW, the song is awesome. While good on SYW, Wall of Sound just takes the song to a whole other level- best song hands down since the Wild Heart.
2. Lindsey comes in about 60% to my ears, his main strength has always been crafting brilliant, catchy pop, not art rock (he uses the I'm So Afraid formula for all of these songs)- he desperately needed to choose between Come and Morrow, both on one record was hard to get through. What's the World Coming To, Miranda and Peacekeeper are his best.

Also, the tour marks the last time I saw them live, which was a great show. I don't find myself playing SYW much these days but honouring its anniversary, I'm going to put it on this weekend between listening to the wonderful reissue of the masterful live 1980 (and 82) album.

[UnwindedDreams]

It's a great record. And they're still selling it on FM's website!
Stevie's songs are awesome. I think Silver Girl is one of her best lyrics.

The charting on Billboard wasn't too bad. I think McCartney albums were charting the same or lower. Stones albums were charting at #3 on Billboard.

I always wondered what songs would've been added for a double album. Maybe the Stones covers Lindsey did for his solo albums.

[sue]

It is a great album, a slow burner, and all the better for it.
It’s my favourite after Rumours.
I still play it regularly and enjoy it even more these days.
My favourite tracks are.
Thrown down
Peacekeeper
Smile at you
Steal your heart away.
But I like all of it.

[secret love]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Now, who feels old LOL

Believe it or not but Say You Will was released this month back in 2003. The song Peacekeeper always takes me back to the Iraq war invasion because that song was breaking right as the invasion was happening and thought it was sort of spooky because we all wanted a peacekeeper at that time.

Anyway, you can tell I am a history buff to always remind everyone of certain dates, etc. I know this album does not get much love around here but IMHO its a musical masterpiece and the best Mac album since Rumours/Tusk era. I just watched Destiny Rules the other night in its entirety that I never did before. I had seen so many snippets here and there and never watched the complete documentary. OMG will it make you feel old. It was shot almost 20 years ago. I had to laugh at the phones they were using and the cars they were driving and OMG was everyone so young in their 50s! Poor Lindsey, its almost like he is Charlie Brown with a football and the record company and the rest of the band are Lucy. Lindsey's only concern was another Tusk like double album to showcase the artistic value of the band. He put off yet another solo album, brought those songs, was going to surrender royalties just to put something out he would be so proud of. The record company and the band liked the idea but realized the younger generation who buys albums does not care about artistic value and how "deep" the album is. Lindsey did not get his way but the album ended up still a tug of war being much longer than a conventional album. They really fought over mixing. The sad part for me was Mick saying when the album was being recorded how disappointed Lindsey and the band would be to only sell 500k copies so that was their benchmark of a commercial failure. Sadly, that's what the album ended up selling more or less and everyone was disappointed but especially because of how they worked their asses off on this album. I think Stevie's writing was some of her best. But OMG we FINALLY get Smile at You and Running Through the Garden on an album. Hello!! That alone is enough to love the album. Musically this one of the Mac's BEST album IMHO. Yes Rumours has more catchy stuff but musically speaking Say You Will is much more intricate and artsy. Yes of course the album needed Christine. But like John said, if she was there, she would not want to be there and it would have ruined the mood for the entire album. Maybe because of the mixing controversy I thought maybe that is why some say its cold? I like every song on this album but my highlights are:

What's the world Coming to
Ilumne
Thrown Down
Miranda - genius
Say You Will - its catchy for me
Smile at you
Running through the garden
Bleed to Love her
Everybody finds out - most explosive Mac song ever. Dear God listen to this song with headphones

I admire the effort. The effort shows. I don't judge albums or music by commercial success and they should be so proud of this album especially to go forward without Christine in a declining music industry time. I give this album a solid B+

I revisited the Say You Will album listening to it on Apple Music tonight, Australia time. Let me reiterate to the dumber members on here who have commented about me posting at 3 am. I rarely if at all post here at 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning. I do sleep! I am just in a different time zone to most Ledgies. For the record it’s 11.20 pm Thursday here.

Anyway, the point of this post was that on Apple Music I was able to bring up the lyrics for every song except Come. Much to my surprise, John McVie was credited as a co-writer on almost every single song on the album. I think Thrown Down and Come were the only exceptions.

Can anyone clarify if John did indeed co-write on all these songs and if he did, what would he have written? Would it just be writing his bass progressions? Or did John contribute additional lyrics? I have also seen him credited as playing “black keys” on this album. Does that mean playing the sharps and the flats on a piano or keyboard instrument? If so isn’t that something that Lindsey and Stevie are perfectly capable of doing without John? So why would he have done it?

Please. Enlighten me if you can.

[sleepless child]

It must be a typo. I don't think John would have co-written anything on Say you Will. I believe he just played Bass

[secret love]

Originally Posted by sleepless child

It must be a typo. I don't think John would have co-written anything on Say you Will. I believe he just played Bass

Yes, but he would have written his own bass parts, wouldn’t he? Like he did on The Chain. Surely he had some creative input beyond just playing what Lindsey or Stevie told him to play.
And how do we explain the credit for “black keys” John was given?

[jmn3]

How has it been 18 years? That is just insane and I feel very old. I was 22 and just finished my last semester of college. It came out just as I was finishing my 'extended' summer internship from the year prior and starting my first post-college full time employment at the same company. I can still remember sitting in my little intern cubicle in the center of an Accounting department listening to the little clock radio on my desk at 10am when Peacekeeper was released because the local classic rock station was going to play the first new single from the new Fleetwood Mac album. It was a great time...and now I'm 40? Bah!

I tend to like the album more than many here. But it ended up being too long and has what I consider a lot of clunkers. I've never found the appreciation for Illume that so many have. My favorites:

Thrown Down - this still holds up
Miranda - great beat, catchy
Say You Will - Stevie trying to be Christine. It's not great, but it works. The ending with the kids is lame
Peacekeeper - Again, like the previous song, it's not great, but it works. A solid Lindsey song, I'd put it on the same shelf as Eyes of the World, In My World, or Big Love
Running Through the Garden - I love this one and wish it would've remained in the set beyond Columbus
Steal Your Heart Away - Classic Fleetwood Mac sound...hmmm, I wonder why??
Bleed to Love Her - Another one that has that classic sound...and it didn't hurt that I knew it already from The Dance
Everybody Finds Out - my absolute favorite. A real kick-a$$ song. This 100% should have had the hell played out of it throughout the tour and become a regular in the greatest hits tours that followed.

It completely misses Christine in so many ways. Add 3 of her songs and her voice on the above songs, and it would be a knock out album. But for what they were trying to do, I think it worked. It's not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. And I think it's as listenable as Mirage or Tango still.