Illume, alternative version - Page 2

Boots · #16 03-03-2006, 12:20 PM

Thanks! I have heard The Verve before, but was unaware of Ashcroft's solo work. Actually, this thread has peaked my interested in Ashcroft and his former band. I just haven't really listened to them often.

I don't want you to go thru the trouble of uploading. I can always download from iTunes.

TomBanks147 · #17 03-03-2006, 12:30 PM

His band where one of the big leaders of the britpop movement in the 90's here in brittain and he shares mutual respect with the Galagher brothers (the king of britpop)

Heres two of the classics from the verve album Urban Hyms to wet your appetite

http://s11.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0...Y07QFRJC6URSA4

http://s9.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2D...X06LS9O7QYI2KL

Its a shame hes not as well known as a solo artist because I think his voice has got better since the verve split and his songwritting has progressed.

Boots · #18 03-03-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBanks147

His band where one of the big leaders of the britpop movement in the 90's here in brittain and he shares mutual respect with the Galagher brothers (the king of britpop)

Heres two of the classics from the verve album Urban Hyms to wet your appetite

http://s11.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0...Y07QFRJC6URSA4

http://s9.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2D...X06LS9O7QYI2KL

Its a shame hes not as well known as a solo artist because I think his voice has got better since the verve split and his songwritting has progressed.

TOM!!!!!!!!! You ROCK!!!! Thanks for links. I'm really loving "Lucky Man" - and I think I've heard it before - but not sure...

Are the Gallaghar brothers still creating havoc in Britain these days?

#19 03-03-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBanks147

http://s45.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3...Y10ZX8XO3BN16D

thanks for sharing that!! He is going to be in Toronto with Coldplay.and would really love to go ...

gldstwmn · #20 03-03-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boots

I really don't hear much of SYW on "C'Mon People"....but I will say - I'm really getting turned on to Richard Ashcroft. Nice, pop melodies and very Buckingham-esque in production...

I loved The Verve and I like Richard Ashcroft a lot.

bretonbanquet · #21 03-03-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boots

Are the Gallaghar brothers still creating havoc in Britain these days?

They're a bit old for that these days

They still have the attitude though.

All the Ashcroft / Mac soundalike situation reminded me that The Verve pinched a sample from Jagger & Richards for that track "Bittersweet Symphony"... it's endemic in music, "borrowing" stuff. Peter and Jeremy used to do it all the time.

DavidMn · #22 03-03-2006, 02:16 PM

You know, I dont mean to stir anything up, but wouldnt he have sued by now if he believed his song was infringed upon?

TomBanks147 · #23 03-03-2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

They're a bit old for that these days

They still have the attitude though.

Saw them twice in 2005 and they where amazing.

Quote:

All the Ashcroft / Mac soundalike situation reminded me that The Verve pinched a sample from Jagger & Richards for that track "Bittersweet Symphony"... it's endemic in music, "borrowing" stuff. Peter and Jeremy used to do it all the time.

Yeah I don't really have a problem with peopel "borrowing" music of others (and I don't think Ricahrd would be either) Everyone has to take influence from others and it wouldn't be the first time Stevie pinched a riff or something. Most of the music I listen to in regeritated music from gone by times (mainly the 60's)

It's just the similarities between Illume and New york or uncany.

Richard B · #24 03-03-2006, 02:25 PM

I absolutely love Richard Ashcroft and The Verve, especially since Bittersweet Symphony. His firt solo album was great but I'm a huge fan of Human Condition. Not as many fans for this album, but I think it's his best.

David · #25 03-03-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

it's endemic in music, "borrowing" stuff.

Consider the second movement of the Beethoven Symphony No. 1 in C major & its parroting of the themes & style of the second movement of the Mozart G minor symphony (K.550). The close similarities include:
1. The nature of the thematic material.
2. The quasi-sonata form (both movements have underdeveloped second themes & a minimal amount of bridge/transitional music).
3. The tempo & meter.
4. The reliance on embellishment as the primary variational/developmental technique.

Such borrowing isn't just periodic -- it's pervasive throughout the centuries.

chiliD · #26 03-03-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

Peter and Jeremy used to do it all the time.

As did Lennon with "Albatross".

TomBanks147 · #27 03-03-2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard B

I absolutely love Richard Ashcroft and The Verve, especially since Bittersweet Symphony. His firt solo album was great but I'm a huge fan of Human Condition. Not as many fans for this album, but I think it's his best.

Keys to the world is DEFFINATLY a return to form though.

Richard B · #28 03-03-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBanks147

Keys to the world is DEFFINATLY a return to form though.

Yes. Songs like Check The Meaning, Paradise, Science of Silence and Nature Is The Law really had a huge connection with me.

Buy It In Bottles is simply profound.

madformac · #29 03-03-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boots

Are the Gallaghar brothers still creating havoc in Britain these days?

They are getting on a bit now.. Noel is a cool guy and Liam is more of an adult now finally at 31 (more than can be said of me as I'm the same age)

I think they have settled into a groove now. Liam and Gem write well together, Andy Bell is also a great writer and of course Noel was born to write classic songs. Now that Zak Starkey looks like a full time member they are a pretty tight band. I can see them staying in the business a long time. The songs have matured too.

If you want havoc just google Pete Doherty...

As far as stealing from other songs is concerned. If you look at the similarites on the Say You Will album to other songs e.g. Illume and Say You Will to Ashcroft and Peacekeeper to Kodachrome by Paul Simon (this is virtually the same) it's quite possible that Lindsey, as producer and arranger (as he likes to point out) may have been listening to other artists during the creative process and they, as Lindsey would put it, "informed the document of work". However, there are only so many chords and notes and you will get repetition from time to time. It's fair to say all modern rock music to a degree was influenced by chicago blues which was influenced from delta blues which was influenced by gospel blues etc etc. So it all dates back to the beginnings really. It's all recycled in one form or another.. haha, cycles again..

chiliD · #30 03-03-2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madformac

As far as stealing from other songs is concerned. If you look at the similarites on the Say You Will album to other songs e.g. Illume and Say You Will to Ashcroft and Peacekeeper to Kodachrome by Paul Simon (this is virtually the same) it's quite possible that Lindsey, as producer and arranger (as he likes to point out) may have been listening to other artists during the creative process and they, as Lindsey would put it, "informed the document of work". However, there are only so many chords and notes and you will get repetition from time to time. It's fair to say all modern rock music to a degree was influenced by chicago blues which was influenced from delta blues which was influenced by gospel blues etc etc. So it all dates back to the beginnings really. It's all recycled in one form or another.. haha, cycles again..

And, early humanoids started beating on rocks with the leg bones of animals, which evolved to beating on stretched animal skins. Hence the modern drummer's roots.

Um...there's not much "blues" influence in King Crimson, ELP or Yes, there, Justin.

Ya know, I DO hear a vague (emphasis on "vague") similarity in the choruses of "Kodachrome" and "Peacekeeper"...but only because someone mentioned it. If I'd never read that, I doubt I would've picked up on it. It's not as blatant & obvious as some people seem to point out.

As Tom said earlier, I can believe that Lindsey would've been more exposed to Verve/Richard Ashcroft than Stevie...so if there's any "fingerpointing" on a plagiarism basis with "Illume", Lindsey should probably be more "to blame". To me, this Illume/New York thing rates right there with the "He's So Fine/My Sweet Lord" thing. But, unfortunately, since "Illume" isn't a big hit, there's no reason to go through with any major plagiarism suit, since future earnings probably wouldn't recoup the expense of filing the suit & paying the lawyer's fees, for a claim that might not be victorious.

Another pair of plagiarities: Listen to The Animals tune "Cheating" (a rare B-side), then listen to Tom Petty's "Breakdown", same melody in verses, same chord pattern...the choruses are also similar, but that's where the songs separate...but, they're too close to even call "different songs".