Danny Kirwan Discussion

[zoork_1]

Originally Posted by nicepace

I enjoy every single one of Danny's songs. I even like "WhenYou Say." I can understand why it might not be everyone's favorite but I like the way ...[...].

I think "When You Say" is beautiful, ...

/z

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by zoork_1

I think "When You Say" is beautiful, ...

/z

When I first heard "When You Say" I cringed, but it later grew on me. It has a Brian Wilson vibe. Kirwan's songwriting around this time involved playing the guitar melody to match the vocal notes of a song. It's a simple technique, yet very effective. By Bare Trees his songwriting had grown leaps and bounds. Yet those early songs (especially his blues/rock contributions) should not be ignored. He was only 18 when he joined the band, and penned these songs, unbelievable. I have to keep reminding myself of that fact.

Jimmy McCulloch was 16 when he joined Thunderclap Newman, and he had great guitar chops just like Danny. I find the two guitarists led similar paths, since Danny had a total mental breakdown. In Jimmy's case he later joined Paul McCartney's Wings, and died of a heroin overdose in 1979.

There was a rumor that Mick Jagger wanted Danny Kirwan to replace Brian Jones. I think if Danny was the Stones replacement guitarist instead of Mick Taylor, he too would've died over thirty years ago.

[Almost Simon]

Originally Posted by slipkid

There was a rumor that Mick Jagger wanted Danny Kirwan to replace Brian Jones. I think if Danny was the Stones replacement guitarist instead of Mick Taylor, he too would've died over thirty years ago.

Never heard that before. It could've happened I guess. He was the right age and had plenty of ability. Only thing is he wouldn't have good a look-in when it came to writing songs. And chances are, just like with Mick Taylor, if he did contribute to songs in the studio he wouldn't have received any credit.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by Almost Simon

Never heard that before. It could've happened I guess. He was the right age and had plenty of ability. Only thing is he wouldn't have good a look-in when it came to writing songs. And chances are, just like with Mick Taylor, if he did contribute to songs in the studio he wouldn't have received any credit.

From the sleevenotes to Ram Jam City:

"As happenstance would have it, a couple of years after Danny Kirwan left Fleetwood Mac, Mick Taylor quit the Rolling Stones. By this time Kirwan happily was away from the limelight, and busily putting together material for his debut solo album, Second Chapter. One day his wife at the time, Clare, answered the phone at their Essex home. It was the Rolling Stones office. Could they speak to Danny.

As fate would have it, he was up in London for the day. Clare gave them another contact number but the guitarist wasn't there either.

They didn't ring again..."

[Almost Simon]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

From the sleevenotes to Ram Jam City:

"As happenstance would have it, a couple of years after Danny Kirwan left Fleetwood Mac, Mick Taylor quit the Rolling Stones. By this time Kirwan happily was away from the limelight, and busily putting together material for his debut solo album, Second Chapter. One day his wife at the time, Clare, answered the phone at their Essex home. It was the Rolling Stones office. Could they speak to Danny.

As fate would have it, he was up in London for the day. Clare gave them another contact number but the guitarist wasn't there either.

They didn't ring again..."

Well, well, well. Although to be fair, the Stones did audition many guitarists before deciding on Ron Wood, but being English he would've certainly been near the top of the list. Just depends on if he'd actually want to step back into the limelight to that extent??

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by slipkid

There was a rumor that Mick Jagger wanted Danny Kirwan to replace Brian Jones. I think if Danny was the Stones replacement guitarist instead of Mick Taylor, he too would've died over thirty years ago.

Not that Danny has actually had much of a life in the past thirty years...

[Almost Simon]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Not that Danny has actually had much of a life in the past thirty years...

I had always thought that Danny's problems were caused solely by alcohol and him being uncomfortable in the spotlight.................but this thread prompted me to go back and look up a few writings and they mention that Danny was with Peter Green in Munich when they took LSD. That would explain things better. Cant see why I didnt make that connection before. Maybe because most reviews of the Munich Incident concentrate on the affect it had on Peter, not Danny.

Its just a shame that Danny isnt playing at all. Good to see that Peter and Jeremy are still playing though.

[THD]

Originally Posted by Almost Simon

Maybe because most reviews of the Munich Incident concentrate on the affect it had on Peter, not Danny.

At the time ,or shortly after ,the story circulating was definitely that only Peter had been there ,that he had been" kidnapped" and because he was on his own they were able to dose him with damaging amounts of , and /or defective , LSD and he was never the same again . Therefore ,the Peter Green Man of The World documentary was a complete revelation ! By his own account,Peter enjoyed it, and thought he made some of the best music ever (Not Jeremy's view in the doc!) And it turns out Danny was there too ,and according to Jeremy ( in one version of the doct at least) they- he and Mick and others -went to "rescue" them and both Danny and Peter had facial paralysis symptoms (indicating stroke or similar )in the car on the way back!

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by THD

At the time ,or shortly after ,the story circulating was definitely that only Peter had been there ,that he had been" kidnapped" and because he was on his own they were able to dose him with damaging amounts of , and /or defective , LSD and he was never the same again . Therefore ,the Peter Green Man of The World documentary was a complete revelation ! By his own account,Peter enjoyed it, and thought he made some of the best music ever (Not Jeremy's view in the doc!) And it turns out Danny was there too ,and according to Jeremy ( in one version of the doct at least) they- he and Mick and others -went to "rescue" them and both Danny and Peter had facial paralysis symptoms (indicating stroke or similar )in the car on the way back!

The Munich story is complete BS. If Green really went mental in Munich 3/70, *****WHY DID FLEETWOOD MAC ASK PETER GREEN BACK TO FILL IN FOR JEREMY SPENCER ELEVEN MONTHS LATER?***** I've watched all the Syd Barrett documentaries. Syd Barrett was GONE after a weekend with acid mid 1967. Peter Green was not that person. Peter Green was just sick of being a rock star. The music Spencer heard in Munich in the basement was something called "Krautrock", German progressive rock music. That's why Green after Munich wanted to solo with a wah pedal. Not that he was crazy, he LIKED IT!! Did Green eventually break down mentally? YES, but it wasn't when he was with FM. Mick Fleetwood has lied for years to protect his legacy. It all came down to Peter Green wanting to give away a percentage of their earnings to charity (in Mick Fleetwood's mind....PG is crazy). Mick Fleetwood said no. Peter Green decided it was time to leave.

Danny Kirwan's story is more like Jimmy McCollough, except Danny just drank. Jimmy OD'd on heroin. That would've been Kirwan's fate had he chose the Rolling Stones in 1969 vs. FM. While Danny Kirwan is living from hostel to hostel in Europe, Jimmy McCollough died in 1979 at the age of 26. Danny still wanders Europe.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by slipkid

While Danny Kirwan is living from hostel to hostel in Europe, Jimmy McCollough died in 1979 at the age of 26. Danny still wanders Europe.

Is Danny traveling through Europe? I thought he was living in a sort of half-way house in England. Can you tell me what you know? I'm hoping if he is wandering through Europe that he is enjoying himself.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by slipkid

Danny Kirwan's story is more like Jimmy McCollough, except Danny just drank. Jimmy OD'd on heroin. That would've been Kirwan's fate had he chose the Rolling Stones in 1969 vs. FM. While Danny Kirwan is living from hostel to hostel in Europe, Jimmy McCollough died in 1979 at the age of 26. Danny still wanders Europe.

Speaking of Jimmy McColloch, I've always thought (after hearing Danny's first 2 solo albums) that he would've been the perfect lead guitarist for Wings. Of course, it wouldn't have been all that democratic, but Danny probably would've gotten at least ONE song per album (like Denny Laine got)...I can definitely hear a LOT of Wings (and Beatles) influence in his song "I Can Tell" from Midnight In San Juan and most of Second Chapter is quite "McCartney-esque". He & Paul may have gotten to be a fairly good songwriting team...of course nothing tops Lennon/McCartney, but McCartney/Kirwan may have been pretty darned good.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by slipkid

Jimmy McCulloch was 16 when he joined Thunderclap Newman, and he had great guitar chops just like Danny. I find the two guitarists led similar paths, since Danny had a total mental breakdown. In Jimmy's case he later joined Paul McCartney's Wings, and died of a heroin overdose in 1979.

Interesting that you mention Jimmy McCulloch...I've always thought that Danny (post-FMac) would've been a perfect choice as Wings guitarist. Some of his songwriting on Midnight In San Juan has a very "Wings"-ish feel...even his reggae version of "Let It Be" sounds like a Wings track.

Originally Posted by slipkid

There was a rumor that Mick Jagger wanted Danny Kirwan to replace Brian Jones. I think if Danny was the Stones replacement guitarist instead of Mick Taylor, he too would've died over thirty years ago.

I don't recall ever reading that....at least not at that point when Brian was dumped. Although, I recall Danny's name being mentioned by Jagger a few years down the road, when searching for Mick Taylor's replacement (if you recall, Ron Wood wasn't their first choice...it took 'em quite a while to choose. They'd considered Jeff Beck, Rory Gallagher, Wayne Perkins among quite a few others).

OOOPS...I missed this exchange when I was reading through the thread...sorry about that, guys:

Originally Posted by chriskisn

From the sleevenotes to Ram Jam City:

"As happenstance would have it, a couple of years after Danny Kirwan left Fleetwood Mac, Mick Taylor quit the Rolling Stones. By this time Kirwan happily was away from the limelight, and busily putting together material for his debut solo album, Second Chapter. One day his wife at the time, Clare, answered the phone at their Essex home. It was the Rolling Stones office. Could they speak to Danny.

As fate would have it, he was up in London for the day. Clare gave them another contact number but the guitarist wasn't there either.

They didn't ring again..."

[bretonbanquet]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Interesting that you mention Jimmy McCulloch...I've always thought that Danny (post-FMac) would've been a perfect choice as Wings guitarist. Some of his songwriting on Midnight In San Juan has a very "Wings"-ish feel...even his reggae version of "Let It Be" sounds like a Wings track.

Danny was a big McCartney fan and I agree he would have been a perfect fit for Wings, at least in the studio. There still would have been that whole playing live problem though

[THD]

Originally Posted by slipkid

I think if Danny was the Stones replacement guitarist instead of Mick Taylor, he too would've died over thirty years ago.

I think you are very right Slipkid I don't think being in the Stones did any favours for Mick Taylor's health or general well being (he is still an excellent guitarist though ! )