The Munich accident

[Wouter Vuijk]

And what about the tapes?????

[SortaSavageLike]

I'm pretty sure it didn't involve the Israeli Olympic team.

[bretonbanquet]

How many people actually knew where the house was or who the people were? Peter isn't going to remember, but who else was there? Didn't Dinky Dawson go there?

The tapes must surely be lost or else they would have surfaced by now? Or does someone responsible own them?

[becca]

I was just reading in Nick Mason's big book about Pink Floyd how Syd Barrett was living with people who would spike everything with acid and what a zombie it was turning him into. Later in the book after five years of not seeing him, Syd shows up at the Abbey Road studio and nobody recognizes him. Hair gone, looking like a vagrant without friends, gut protruding... sound familiar? It's like reading about either Peter or Danny.

Maybe the acid they had in Europe was bad stuff because Jerry Garcia seemed to be okay more or less and did I asume as much as any musician of the '60s. His playing and mind never deteriorated that I know of.

[dino]

Originally Posted by becca

I was just reading in Nick Mason's big book about Pink Floyd how Syd Barrett was living with people who would spike everything with acid and what a zombie it was turning him into. Later in the book after five years of not seeing him, Syd shows up at the Abbey Road studio and nobody recognizes him. Hair gone, looking like a vagrant without friends, gut protruding... sound familiar? It's like reading about either Peter or Danny.

Maybe the acid they had in Europe was bad stuff because Jerry Garcia seemed to be okay more or less and did I asume as much as any musician of the '60s. His playing and mind never deteriorated that I know of.

Martin Celmins has a fairly good description of the Munich incident in his book on Peter. Apparently Dinky Dawson was there, and Jeremy Spencer seems to indicate that he was too? And they only stayed one night. It need repeating, that the live tapes of the Mac recorded after Munich features some incredible playing from Peter, as does a lot of the music he recorded during the early 70s. His health problems seems to have had more to with schizophrenia, which lsd can trigger. And the problems surely began earlier than Munich. It'd be nice to hear the tapes, though

[becca]

Syd Barrett did two solo albums right after the split with Pink Floyd so I suppose he could function some of the time. Perhaps like Danny later (who I read was at that house in Munich but some say he wasn't) he just didn't want to, which I can relate to as a commecial artist who has practically totally stopped doing what at one time I could never imagine not be doing.

I'm pretty much new to these stories of acid fallout but if you could add in Brian Jones... and I see photos of Peter where he is looking happy and healthy and then like the second Manalishi cover and some of the last tour photos looking really strange, like Syd, starting to stick out with scared looking eyes, and Danny had those eyes as well, Kurt Cobain eyes. Well, all I have to go by is stories people tell and photos. Jim Morrison is another who radically changed for the worse over a fairly short period too, and it's said he would go along with anyone while the rest of the band stayed back.

It would sure be nice to know more about all this.

[sharksfan2000]

Originally Posted by dino

Martin Celmins has a fairly good description of the Munich incident in his book on Peter. Apparently Dinky Dawson was there, and Jeremy Spencer seems to indicate that he was too? And they only stayed one night.

Actually, it seems pretty certain that only Peter and road manager Dennis Keane (or is it Kean or Keen - I've seen it spelled three ways!!) were at the Munich house that one night. Dinky Dawson accompanied Mick & Clifford Davis to retrieve Peter the next morning (and maybe Dennis too, although the accounts vary on whether or not he may have returned earlier without Peter).

Originally Posted by dino

It needs repeating, that the live tapes of the Mac recorded after Munich features some incredible playing from Peter, as does a lot of the music he recorded during the early 70s. His health problems seems to have had more to with schizophrenia, which lsd can trigger. And the problems surely began earlier than Munich. It'd be nice to hear the tapes, though

Couldn't agree more!

I'm hardly an expert on LSD, but it seems like it was harmless enough to most people in the '60s. I'd have to guess that, like Peter, a lot of the people who had problems afterwards may have had some underlying and in some cases entirely hidden health issues that were triggered by the acid (like Peter's schizophrenia). I don't know a lot about Syd Barrett, but perhaps that was an issue with him as well. Skip Spence of Jefferson Airplane and Moby Grape was another well-known performer who may have suffered similar problems. Remember that Dennis Keane was also at the Munich house and presumably took the same acid as Peter did, yet according to Celmins' book that had no adverse affect on him.

[mzero]

sf2k is correct, at least according to mc's book it was dennis that was at the munich house with peter.

Originally Posted by sharksfan2000

I'm hardly an expert on LSD, but it seems like it was harmless enough to most people in the '60s. I'd have to guess that, like Peter, a lot of the people who had problems afterwards may have had some underlying and in some cases entirely hidden health issues that were triggered by the acid (like Peter's schizophrenia). I don't know a lot about Syd Barrett, but perhaps that was an issue with him as well. Skip Spence of Jefferson Airplane and Moby Grape was another well-known performer who may have suffered similar problems. Remember that Dennis Keane was also at the Munich house and presumably took the same acid as Peter did, yet according to Celmins' book that had no adverse affect on him.

i do know a fair bit about syd barrett. his case is similar in that he was under tremendous pressure to produce hit records and lead the band. was different in that, by all accounts that i've read, he took much more acid than pete (both intentionally and spiked) and very large quantities other drugs (mandrax). some believe this led to serious brain damage as well as induced mental illness. as i recall both roger waters and david gilmour (who both knew him as teenagers) believe that there were possibly underlying latent mental issues that the drug use brought on. barrett has well recovered to that the degree that he has lived alone and maintained a house for many years now. i believe that barrett does not have schizophrenia although he prefers not to interact with people other than relatives and tends to depression. on the otherhand, again according to what i've read, he paints and gardens,does his own shopping and is on good terms with his neighbors.

skip spence was schizophrenic which was brought on by drug use. the onset of his illness was sudden, coincided with drug use and associating with people with dubious intentions (a self-proclaimed witch). he tried to attack some of his bandmates with a fire-axe and was institutionalized. he never fully recovered but did cut one album immediately after he was released. he, unlike pete, had no family to look after him and no royalties to subsist on. subsequently he spent the next 30 years drifting, much of the time from the mid seventies to early 90's as a transient. still he was active musically off in san jose, santa cruz, and in the santa cruz mtns up around ben lomand. though virtually no material was formally recorded or was released. some of the original doobie brothers were associates of skip's in the early 1970's. and up until the few months before he died skip was making music, also unreleased. according to what i've read, spence was a very unusual person even before the drug use - could pick up new instruments with no training, could compose songs and arrangements in his head etc.

zero

[doodyhead]

Hello Rainer, why you made your citizen of Munich encounter with Peter Green first so late well known after the blues scene has many decades long gerätselt, who then the citizen of Munich was couple, that towed Greenie 1970 into a community, that he had left as a totally more other.

Does many Blueser interest whether you have another copy of Greenies entrance in the Highfish community? For it should have given its copy his former wife why no one knows, where the with cut is today.

In the Rolling Stone forum, Greens trauma night with German Kommunarden 1970 was discussed long time ago especially enthusiastically Peter (link: http://forum.rollingstone.de/showthread.php?t=29009)

Asking greetings 68

Rainer Langhans' answer

Hello, very simply: First as me some years ago the Rolling Stone with the FM cover story into the hands fell, went me up that the conspiracy theory of the Macs meant us. Thereupon Christa and I tried to make a Doku about that. That startled probably the Macs so that they made one, that brought the rumors over us again. In our Doku, we wanted to fathom why and like Peter developed and like the volumes to these rumors came. Of your riddle eggs, I knew previously nothing. For me, the encounter with Peter had been at that time an entirely normal and beautiful, like with many other musicians also. One invites himself, celebrates and jammt together, drugs incl. How with Peter. We encountered was it to Munich yet twice in London and it yet entire the superstar and friend. No drama etc. All the more more stunning this late legend development of the American Macs. One can think himself there a lot... Because Peter guardian and the Macs denied a cooperation at our Doku, we considered whether we place a Spielfimprojekt about that on the legs. But not simply, so a story... The famous volume: Yes, I believe that we let run our Revox machine. Where is the volume? No idea. Was there that really? Interesting by the way how long needed your in order to ask me directly. It seems to be more beautifully, to contrive itself what... And what contrived your you! Exactly like the Macs also. I read then a few things on your forums...

Greeting R. Langhans

[Ms Moose]

Originally Posted by Wouter Vuijk

And what about the tapes?????

I think Martin Celmins mentions in his book - and Peter Green himself - certainly - mentions in The Man of The World DVD, that he left the "Munich Tape(s)" in Los Angeles with his ex-wife Jane Samuels.
Maybe she could be kindly asked to return them?

I don't know how to "quote" from more than one thread - but thanks to all our german and austrian friends and Fellow Ledgies for all their knowledge and information - and the time they take to translate!

Ms Moose

[Popmuseum]

Originally Posted by Ms Moose

I think Martin Celmins mentions in his book - and Peter Green himself - certainly - mentions in The Man of The World DVD, that he left the "Munich Tape(s)" in Los Angeles with his ex-wife Jane Samuels.
Maybe she could be kindly asked to return them?

I don't know how to "quote" from more than one thread - but thanks to all our german and austrian friends and Fellow Ledgies for all their knowledge and information - and the time they take to translate! Ms Moose

Maybe someone who's able to write her a nice e-mail should ask her (kindly) (In English, not German). Thanks.

[slipkid]

I notice the walking on eggshells approach when concerning Peter's ex-wife. From reading the 1999 Penguin Q&A with PG, up to that time he had never seen his daughter? Does anyone know if this has changed?

Jeremy Spencer mentioned an incident involving Jane Samuels while pregnant in one of his propogandist CoG fliers. I don't have the Celmins biography so I'm in the dark.

[jeremy spencer]

... propagandist. (Spellcheck).

Originally Posted by slipkid

I notice the walking on eggshells approach when concerning Peter's ex-wife. From reading the 1999 Penguin Q&A with PG, up to that time he had never seen his daughter? Does anyone know if this has changed?

Jeremy Spencer mentioned an incident involving Jane Samuels while pregnant in one of his propogandist CoG fliers. I don't have the Celmins biography so I'm in the dark.

[doodyhead]

Dear Jeremy,

I don't know what the propaganda thing is all about, but I was always curious about what happened to you, danny and peter. I have much respect for what the three of you managed to put out in such a few short years. We are all curious about what you went through as well as what Peter went through. Maybe someday you can tell us of your travels as well as tour meetings over time with your other former bandmates. I know there are quite a few interested in Jane and Rosebud. I apologize if this seems like such a maudlin interest, but even those among us who are blues enthusiasts and devotees, there is a little bit of the fanatic in all us fans.

A fan and avid listener of your music,

vinnie c

Originally Posted by jeremy spencer

... propagandist. (Spellcheck).