"The affairs dented my self respect"

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

After he got sober, do you wonder if he really had any regrets?

oh god. yes i think he did. maybe in 'sober moments'.... because he never really seemed to be able to maintain sobriety, unless he managed to do it around his cancer when chris said he 'had an awakening and stopped drinking'. but she'd said he'd stopped drinking a few times over the years and it didn't stick. i have heard he was very, very good to her in their later years....perhaps trying to make up for his abysmal behavior earlier. he did actually say in his q&a that his only regret was having hurt people he loved.

--Lis

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

It doesn't seem terribly well-written, I'm afraid.

I would agree. Beyond the tragic, doomed tone the author insists on using, there’s also this hilarious anachronism:

“Christine could have walked away – she was only 30 years old, talented and in her prime. She might have divorced John, cut her losses and resumed her solo career. Chicken Shack, the second-division pre-Fleetwood Mac blues outfit with whom she famously scored a hit with the Etta James cover “I’d Rather Go Blind”, would have had her back in a beat. But Christine knew the magical harmonies that she, Stevie and Lindsey conjured together were too precious to throw away.”

In the essay, this passage refers to Christine’s 1973 predicament after her affair with Birch, two years before she met the two with whom she made magical harmonies. Splendidly stupid.

What is the author’s motive in painting this portrait of a Christine? Why is she hellbent on showing the world how tragic Christine’s story is supposed to be?

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I looked it up and Chris was asked about the song and she said it was fantasy and not about anyone in particular. But who knows. I never bought her explanation that Oh Daddy was about Mick. Its so describing someone's relationship being dependent on a toxic lover or parental figure. Its far too personal to be about Mick. But I think when the 20th anniversary of Rumours came around it made sense to have a literal meaning of the song since Mick was the only father in the band. But I call her bluff

she did BS a lot lol. didn't she say she stepped into jenny's shoes when she wrote Oh Daddy? I think she did. maybe just the vibe of a troubled/toxic relationship in general. i think she and jenny were close and saw a lot of each other's marital issues, having lived together at benifols.... they both had very flawed partners.

--Lis

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I would agree. Beyond the tragic, doomed tone the author insists on using, there’s also this hilarious anachronism:

“Christine could have walked away – she was only 30 years old, talented and in her prime. She might have divorced John, cut her losses and resumed her solo career. Chicken Shack, the second-division pre-Fleetwood Mac blues outfit with whom she famously scored a hit with the Etta James cover “I’d Rather Go Blind”, would have had her back in a beat. But Christine knew the magical harmonies that she, Stevie and Lindsey conjured together were too precious to throw away.”

In the essay, this passage refers to Christine’s 1973 predicament after her affair with Birch, two years before she met the two with whom she made magical harmonies. Splendidly stupid.

What is the author’s motive in painting this portrait of a Christine? Why is she hellbent on showing the world how tragic Christine’s story is supposed to be?

yeah, i noticed that, too. was she gonna leave in 1975 to go back to chicken shack in the UK and sing I'd Rather Go Blind?? it didn't make sense. jones is probably going for drama and trying to pull at heartstrings as she tells this tale. she's trying to sell books lol

--Lis

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

yeah, i noticed that, too. was she gonna leave in 1975 to go back to chicken shack in the UK and sing I'd Rather Go Blind?? it didn't make sense. jones is probably going for drama and trying to pull at heartstrings as she tells this tale. she's trying to sell books lol

--Lis

It’s as if Jones is writing her own version of Valley of the Dolls. The slippery slope for women in show business! Men who ruin women!!!

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

yeah, i noticed that, too. was she gonna leave in 1975 to go back to chicken shack in the UK and sing I'd Rather Go Blind?? it didn't make sense. jones is probably going for drama and trying to pull at heartstrings as she tells this tale. she's trying to sell books lol

--Lis

I think we would need to read more to jump to conclusions about the author. Was she not Chris's friend? I don't see anything negative towards Chris at all. If anything it makes Chris very human and vulnerable. We all wondered the hell she went through with John and how she coped. Could you imagine what someone really could have written even the blunt truth that would leave people gasping. I found this heartfelt showing her struggles not just as a woman but as a human being. All of this would have a toll on anyone. If anything one could say this is a glossy portrait compared to the harsh reality of the truth. I felt it very touching how losing her dad even at his late age really impacted her. Losing your parents is a benchmark in everyone's life. Her dad lived a very long life and got to see her on top of the world. Yet the reality is it still really hurt her. The band stopped their world tour and took 3 months off when Chris's dad passed. When Mick's mother passed during OWTS the band never cancelled or postponed one date. Mick was playing the next night. When Robin died, the band kept the Mirage tour going. Chris's outlook totally changed with her dad's passing. With all the hurt Chris went through, the reality is its almost impossible to write the truth yet not be too realistic. In everyone's life no matter how wonderful they are or were there were benchmarks and tough times. As they say, what does not kill you makes you stronger. IMHO this is why Chris was so strong. Its not a story of a weak woman that took advantage of men. Her experiences is what made her a fantastic writer and even better band mate. But we have to realize even in our heroes or heroines there are times they falter. I will never forget the story on Bob Welch's website that told the story of him running into Lindsey shortly after Bob left the band. Lindsey asked Bob, "how the hell did you stand to be around these people?"

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I think we would need to read more to jump to conclusions about the author. Was she not Chris's friend? I don't see anything negative towards Chris at all. If anything it makes Chris very human and vulnerable. We all wondered the hell she went through with John and how she coped. Could you imagine what someone really could have written even the blunt truth that would leave people gasping. I found this heartfelt showing her struggles not just as a woman but as a human being. All of this would have a toll on anyone. If anything one could say this is a glossy portrait compared to the harsh reality of the truth. I felt it very touching how losing her dad even at his late age really impacted her. Losing your parents is a benchmark in everyone's life. Her dad lived a very long life and got to see her on top of the world. Yet the reality is it still really hurt her. The band stopped their world tour and took 3 months off when Chris's dad passed. When Mick's mother passed during OWTS the band never cancelled or postponed one date. Mick was playing the next night. When Robin died, the band kept the Mirage tour going. Chris's outlook totally changed with her dad's passing. With all the hurt Chris went through, the reality is its almost impossible to write the truth yet not be too realistic. In everyone's life no matter how wonderful they are or were there were benchmarks and tough times. As they say, what does not kill you makes you stronger. IMHO this is why Chris was so strong. Its not a story of a weak woman that took advantage of men. Her experiences is what made her a fantastic writer and even better band mate. But we have to realize even in our heroes or heroines there are times they falter. I will never forget the story on Bob Welch's website that told the story of him running into Lindsey shortly after Bob left the band. Lindsey asked Bob, "how the hell did you stand to be around these people?"

This is true, I don't want to judge the whole book before I've read it. Jones was her friend but probably more of an 'occasional' friend, and also she interviewed her several times... I guess for me it's just a bit strange to imagine a close friend 'interviewing' her. and Chris obviously knew she was a journalist, which may have impacted how much/what she shared with her..?

But regardless, any new tidbits of info i can learn, i will eat up like candy. This excerpt is so interesting just because it's about a time period that Chris has said verrrry little about previously. it's great to get a peek at how she viewed things...her marriage, her parents' expectations, her affair etc. and i do think she was a strong person who handled a lot of pain in her life in terms of relationships.

That line about just being 'john's missus and not a person in my own right' was so revealing, it shows she kind of had that 50s/60s mentality of a wife sort of being an extension of her husband? very traditional. i wonder if women at that time in the UK were even allowed to open bank accounts on their own, because here in the US that only happened in 1974. maybe she felt financially trapped in a way as well? that line really hit me, i suppose, because i know that money was a huge concern of mine when i got divorced, how could i support myself after so many years of being home w kids and 'dependent' on a husband etc. it's scary to make the jump from financial security to who knows what. and also weird when relatives learn of things you did when you were miserable and desperate. been there done that haha

anyway now i'm rambling lol

--Lis

[bombaysaffires]

"friend"...or acquaintance? If "friend" certainly not a CLOSE friend it seems. A few drinking sessions with some stories told doesn't make you a real "friend". So who knows.

I heard Spare Me A Little today and all this got me thinking who it was about... "you must know you have certain charms.. and I feel the time is right"

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

This is true, I don't want to judge the whole book before I've read it. Jones was her friend but probably more of an 'occasional' friend, and also she interviewed her several times... I guess for me it's just a bit strange to imagine a close friend 'interviewing' her. and Chris obviously knew she was a journalist, which may have impacted how much/what she shared with her..?

But regardless, any new tidbits of info i can learn, i will eat up like candy. This excerpt is so interesting just because it's about a time period that Chris has said verrrry little about previously. it's great to get a peek at how she viewed things...her marriage, her parents' expectations, her affair etc. and i do think she was a strong person who handled a lot of pain in her life in terms of relationships.

That line about just being 'john's missus and not a person in my own right' was so revealing, it shows she kind of had that 50s/60s mentality of a wife sort of being an extension of her husband? very traditional. i wonder if women at that time in the UK were even allowed to open bank accounts on their own, because here in the US that only happened in 1974. maybe she felt financially trapped in a way as well? that line really hit me, i suppose, because i know that money was a huge concern of mine when i got divorced, how could i support myself after so many years of being home w kids and 'dependent' on a husband etc. it's scary to make the jump from financial security to who knows what. and also weird when relatives learn of things you did when you were miserable and desperate. been there done that haha

anyway now i'm rambling lol

--Lis

Nothing that was in this segment was surprising or really new. Its pretty much what we already knew about Chris just with details to back that up. We knew John was a bad alcoholic. We knew about her affair with Martin. We knew Chris was conservative and a bit traditionalist and not a feminist. We would know her dad's death was hard on her but we get more details to back that up. The details in the story just connect the dots in a respectful way. Its possible since Chris knew she was a journalist she may have said, when I go you can say these things. If you use statement analysis on that Eddy comment is very revealing. The distain for Eddy was loud and clear. When people especially women are hurt by men that feeling stays. He was a rat period. There is no looking back and saying, "oh he was so nice in the beginning, blah blah blah." She was still so hurt by him that she even cast shade as casting the marriage in the mid 80s a mistake. That for sure was a real time statement when they were both alive. We know she was miserable during The Dance. She did not want to tour. She reluctantly recorded with the band. Her marriage to Eddy was shot and she just wanted to get back to England. You know how miserable she was? It was probably the only time in her life and career that she told Mick NO.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...ycsrp_catchall

That same year, Christine met and fell hopelessly for “The One”, Beach Boys drummer Dennis Wilson. The notorious, four-times-married, hell-raising womaniser was so wrong for her that she couldn’t let him go. She believed that she could fix him.

By the way, do you know what did Dennis think about Hold Me? Is there any article of him commenting about the song?

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Villavic

By the way, do you know what did Dennis think about Hold Me? Is there any article of him commenting about the song?

Not sure if he knew it was about him. On Mirage, it’s “Only Over You” that is explicitly dedicated to him “with inspiration.” I wonder what he thought of that…

[bombaysaffires]

Speaking of Spare Me a Little, great little clip from the white album days:

https://x.com/steviest0rms/status/1857534748324696240

[SteveMacD]

I like how she beats around the bush without directly addressing the elephant in the room, at least in what was posted.

John becoming a father in February, 1989, while she was in an unhappy marriage and then losing her dad less than a year and a half later had to be hell. I’m not saying she resented or wasn’t thrilled for John and his family, but by August, 1990, Christine was definitely “jumpin’ at shadows, thinkin’ ‘bout her life.” For all of her fame and fortune, she really didn’t have much that was intrinsic to show for it.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I like how she beats around the bush without directly addressing the elephant in the room, at least in what was posted.

John becoming a father in February, 1989, while she was in an unhappy marriage and then losing her dad less than a year and a half later had to be hell. I’m not saying she resented or wasn’t thrilled for John and his family, but by August, 1990, Christine was definitely “jumpin’ at shadows, thinkin’ ‘bout her life.” For all of her fame and fortune, she really didn’t have much that was intrinsic to show for it.

I agree, that must have been a tough time for her. It never sounds like she was all that satisfied with her personal life emotionally. and while she had tons of money, that certainly doesn't buy true happiness. IMO it does seem like she hung on to her 2nd marriage way longer than she should have, but she obviously didn't want to be alone. and after ed was gone, it seems that being alone in that house wasn't doing her any favors in terms of her mental health. I wonder if she ever regretted moving during those years...?

--Lis

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

I agree, that must have been a tough time for her. It never sounds like she was all that satisfied with her personal life emotionally. and while she had tons of money, that certainly doesn't buy true happiness. IMO it does seem like she hung on to her 2nd marriage way longer than she should have, but she obviously didn't want to be alone. and after ed was gone, it seems that being alone in that house wasn't doing her any favors in terms of her mental health. I wonder if she ever regretted moving during those years...?

--Lis

I can see why she did it but no doubt she regretted it later in her life. Restoring an old house in rural England sounds like fun. She knew that she wanted to only do a few more years in the biz. But with BTM being such a disappointment and her father dying really facilitated her exit. She was sort of forced to do Time. She did not want to do it and Warner told Mick they needed one of their famous singers or no deal. Didn't she record tracks from England and send them to the States? She was reluctant to do the Dance and refused to tour Europe. She was unhappy but going to Kent full time really isolated her and made things so much worse. It sounds crazy to say but thank goodness she took that horrible fall that made her have a glimpse of reality and get clean and seek therapy. Stevie also took a brutal fall that made her finally decide to kick klonopin.
The joy she experienced back with the band was tremendous. It truly was a miracle.
Being that BTM sort of bombed made her exit easier though. Imagine if it was a huge success with multiple hit singles. There would have been pressure on her especially from Mick to keep going. Let's not forget. Fleetwood Mac called it quits and had a "Farewell Tour" in late 1990.
A canary in the coal mine of her unhappiness in Kent was that interview she did with a woman to promote ITM. Its that interview with the annoying music in the background. Chris is so out of character. She seems annoyed, impatient, and genuinely not happy like: Lets get this thing over. Making that album was probably so therapeutic for her working with her nephew. It gave her purpose and they made a fantastic album. But I think after that project was done, things got really bad. She even started smoking again.