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  #16  
Old 02-11-2023, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
I mean, she recorded with Danny on her first solo album and on three Fleetwood Mac albums, and he tried to beat Peter with a Les Paul.
Given the exceptional quality of Danny’s playing and songwriting right up to the end of his tenure in the band, I assume his colleagues tried to give him as long a leash as possible, until his behavior made it impossible to continue on with them. In his first book, Mick says he was “loath to fire him” even after he refused to play that fateful gig in ‘72 because, in his words, “Danny played so well.”

Mason‘s legacy as a great songwriter and solid bass/guitar player probably would not have been enough for various FM members to endure his personality.

Or, more simply, by 1994-95, Christine had a lot less tolerance for bull****.
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  #17  
Old 02-11-2023, 04:15 PM
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Or, more simply, by 1994-95, Christine had a lot less tolerance for bull****.
Their days of being on top were over... damned if she was going to tolerate the King of the Assh*les for contractual obligations, and a band playing the county fair circuit.
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  #18  
Old 02-11-2023, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
I dont know if this is true but I read online that some of her beef with Dave may have been connected to her friend's beef with Dave. Steve Winwood and Dave were both in Traffic and had a big falling out and could not stand each other.
Winwood has said in interviews that Mason never gelled with the band, as indicated by his sporadic departures from the group and his failure to appear on several songs written by the other members. Here's a quote from Mason's Wikipedia page:

"We all [Winwood, Jim Capaldi and Chris Wood] tended to write together, but Mason would come in with a complete song that he was going to sing and tell us all what he expected us to play. No discussion, like we were his backing group."
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  #19  
Old 02-12-2023, 12:55 AM
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Christine and Steve Winwood were pretty close, weren't they? I'm not insinuating that they were a couple but they seemed to have a great respect for one another. Winwood did work on Christine's 1984 album too. Besides whatever personal interactions Christine had with Dave, she probably heard tales from Winwood about him which only furthered her dislike of him.

I've never felt that Dave was a good fit for Fleetwood Mac. It always felt like a square peg going into a round hole. Even if Christine didn't have issues toward him, as an artist he didn't fit with the lineage of guitarists in the band. He always came across to me as someone who was a "straight ahead" guitarist. He didn't have the "feel" that Peter, Danny, Jeremy, the Bobs, Lindsey, Rick or even Billy had. I'm far from being knowledgeable about guitarists and their styles but that's how I've always felt.

Dave may have had a history as being in Traffic as well as his success as a solo artist but I don't think his name sold a bunch of tickets or albums for FM. Todd Sharp certainly didn't have a name but he would have been a better choice all around. He already had a history with those in the group sans John and his presence MAY have helped Christine change her mind about touring.

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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
I dont know if this is true but I read online that some of her beef with Dave may have been connected to her friend's beef with Dave. Steve Winwood and Dave were both in Traffic and had a big falling out and could not stand each other.
You gotta love Chris with what she said. If you remember her online 1995 chat she says the new creation of Fleetwood Mac is really "bizarre". She says Dave is a fine guitar player but would not have been her first choice and he does not fit with the band. I remember at the time how harsh that sounded talking about a current member of the band. But now we know why.
Here is the chat which is fun to look back on. I love the fact she admits listening to Mystery To Me the other night and is one of her favorite albums.

https://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart106.htm
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  #20  
Old 02-12-2023, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by WalkAThinLine. View Post
Winwood has said in interviews that Mason never gelled with the band, as indicated by his sporadic departures from the group and his failure to appear on several songs written by the other members. Here's a quote from Mason's Wikipedia page:

"We all [Winwood, Jim Capaldi and Chris Wood] tended to write together, but Mason would come in with a complete song that he was going to sing and tell us all what he expected us to play. No discussion, like we were his backing group."
I have read some Dave interviews with him looking back on his short time with Fleetwood Mac. He enjoyed his short tenure but he spoke about 2 major frustrations with the band. He complained that every member in the band had their own manager which made it tough for the band to make decisions. Too many competing interests. Second he talks about Chris not touring with the band. He does not say anything bad about her but was irked that she would not be going on the road to promote the album with them especially sicne she was given almost half the songs. I can see and understand that frustration. Its that same frustration Lindsey felt when Chris offered to take part in SYW and not tour. Its a major buzz killer for a band because you feel hollow because the road show is not going to be the same band from the studio. It just was an odd situation because Warner demanded Chris be on the album. Lastly he talks about his frustration with Warner never promoting the album. It just was dropped without any fanfare. So while he did not say anything, I can sense he felt the band was duped by the record company. They demanded Chris be on the album yet when it was finished and came out, they walked away from it.
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  #21  
Old 02-12-2023, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Street_Dreamer View Post
Christine and Steve Winwood were pretty close, weren't they?
I don’t think they were as close as some thought. His tribute made it seem like they were more acquaintances than pals.

Christine’s dislike of Dave was its own thing. Mick said Bekka had an issue him and Richard discussed his own issues with Dave, who had been a friend prior to Time. So, it wasn’t just Christine. Dave sounded like a real…character. (Seeing him on Saturday, BTW. Second row!)

Quote:
Todd Sharp certainly didn't have a name but he would have been a better choice all around. He already had a history with those in the group sans John and his presence MAY have helped Christine change her mind about touring.
I wonder if something happened between Todd and the others or if Rick Vito was just the last guy Mick talked to before Lindsey quit? Or maybe Stevie thought adding Billy AND Todd went a step too far as far a balance of power/band dynamics?

In hindsight, not going with Todd in 1987 was a huge mistake. Todd had recent success collaborating with Christine, which was more relevant to Fleetwood Mac fans in 1987 than Peter Green. He would have been a better choice as far a chemistry was concerned. I get the vibe he wasn’t enthusiastic about being a frontman after his album didn’t do anything and would have been happy letting Billy do the heavy lifting. Assuming Stevie quit and Christine retired from touring, I think Todd would have kept the band from fracturing, maybe giving us an early-90s Fleetwood Mac album instead of Shakin’ The Cage, Gotta Band, and Coming Home.

Rick had solo aspirations and I get the vibe he never fully embraced the Fleetwood Mac community. Dave was just simply the wrong fit all around.
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  #22  
Old 02-12-2023, 02:47 PM
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That said, the setlist would have been better if Todd had joined in 1993:

The Chain
Say You Love Me/You Make Loving Fun
Oh Well
I’m the One
Gold Dust Woman (or, better, So Excited)
World Turning
Got A Hold On Me
Don’t Stop

Go Your Own Way
Imagine/Dreamin’ The Dream
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  #23  
Old 02-13-2023, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Street_Dreamer View Post
Christine and Steve Winwood were pretty close, weren't they? I'm not insinuating that they were a couple but they seemed to have a great respect for one another. Winwood did work on Christine's 1984 album too.
They knew each other for such a long time. He carried her books on the way home from school, yes?

Quote:
Besides whatever personal interactions Christine had with Dave, she probably heard tales from Winwood about him which only furthered her dislike of him.
It wouldn’t surprise me.

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I've never felt that Dave was a good fit for Fleetwood Mac. It always felt like a square peg going into a round hole.
Yeah, he was absolutely not a fit at all. That screwiness was most pronounced in concert. Saw him twice with Mac in Central California at a resort (94 and 95), and he acted like a backup guy with his mind on the day’s shopping or something.

Although I do have to hand it to Dave and Capaldi because they managed to mildly entertain 34,000 people waiting to see Fleetwood Mac at the LA Forum two nights running with just their acoustic guitars when they were pulled in last minute to open. (They weren’t even billed in the paper.)
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  #24  
Old 02-19-2023, 12:53 AM
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So, I very briefly talked to the man, the myth, the legend himself, but it was at the end of the night, after some 63 year old woman (age approximated, but I stand by it) tried to get him to come back to her place (mind you, he even said during the show that his wife was selling her yoga book at the merch table).

He said “Hey lady! I’m 77!”

Really, points enough. I just said a few things, said thanks, and went on my way. Lesson learned, don’t give up your space in line to a ho.

Biggest takeaway: Dave doesn’t look at the crowd. I was in the second row, right in front of him, and all he did was stare down. Kind of unnerving.
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  #25  
Old 02-19-2023, 09:48 AM
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I’ve heard from Dave Mason fans years ago that he’s kind of an asshole. The article where they interviewed guys from his ‘70s band said he wasn’t much of a people person.

I watched a Facebook live stream interview with Dave and Mick. Mick said he was perfectionist. Dave seemed a little high strung and twitchy. Mick’s book said there were issues between Dave and Bekka and Richard said he left Time because of Dave. Also, John Courage’s exact words to me on the phone were “Dave Mason is an asshole.”
lol wow good to know. Jeez, Richard's another easygoing kind of guy, and he couldn't take it either?? if Mason caused such trouble, it would seem he was hardly worth having around. I'll take Richard and Chris over Dave any day. I wasn't impressed with anything he did on Time.

Around what time frame did you know JC?

He had a bit of an assholey reputation himself according to some people lol, he scared the **** out of me and Marty on the day we met John before a show. I saw him coming down the hallway to tell John how many minutes he had left and I mumbled aloud, 'Oh sh*t.' John actually turned around to see what I was referring to and then chuckled.

Then when he came down a second time, I knew we had to wrap it up, John started scratching at his neck and gestured back in JC's direction saying , 'I gotta get back there...' and i was like 'Yess, you better!' JC was the reason I was too afraid to even take out my camera (which was hidden in a false bottom of my big purse...back in the days when you weren't allowed to take cameras into concerts...) and get a picture with John. argh that still irritates me but i thought he'd either take the camera or throw us out!

But I know he was only doing his job. he was a loyal chap. I read somewhere that when he was dying, i think in hospice, they hung fleetwood mac posters around his room because the band had been such a source of pride in his life.

--Lis
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  #26  
Old 02-19-2023, 09:54 AM
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They knew each other for such a long time. He carried her books on the way home from school, yes?
Nah, that's one of Stevie's embellishments. I think she just knew him casually as a fellow musician from Birmingham . I remember reading that Chris said when they were working on the song for her solo album, that she and winwood had to go get drunk at a pub to sort of break the ice between them , because they really didn't know anything about each other.

-Lis
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  #27  
Old 02-19-2023, 11:45 AM
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lol wow good to know. Jeez, Richard's another easygoing kind of guy, and he couldn't take it either?? if Mason caused such trouble, it would seem he was hardly worth having around. I'll take Richard and Chris over Dave any day. I wasn't impressed with anything he did on Time.

Around what time frame did you know JC?

He had a bit of an assholey reputation himself according to some people lol, he scared the **** out of me and Marty on the day we met John before a show. I saw him coming down the hallway to tell John how many minutes he had left and I mumbled aloud, 'Oh sh*t.' John actually turned around to see what I was referring to and then chuckled.

Then when he came down a second time, I knew we had to wrap it up, John started scratching at his neck and gestured back in JC's direction saying , 'I gotta get back there...' and i was like 'Yess, you better!' JC was the reason I was too afraid to even take out my camera (which was hidden in a false bottom of my big purse...back in the days when you weren't allowed to take cameras into concerts...) and get a picture with John. argh that still irritates me but i thought he'd either take the camera or throw us out!

But I know he was only doing his job. he was a loyal chap. I read somewhere that when he was dying, i think in hospice, they hung fleetwood mac posters around his room because the band had been such a source of pride in his life.

--Lis
Although I never met JC, we were Facebook friends, and(shockingly to me) he even commented on a few of my posts. He seemed very nice from what I experienced. I was really sad when he passed.

But I'm sure when you're herding cats(musicians), you've got to be a little tough.
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  #28  
Old 02-25-2023, 05:05 PM
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lol wow good to know. Jeez, Richard's another easygoing kind of guy, and he couldn't take it either?? if Mason caused such trouble, it would seem he was hardly worth having around. I'll take Richard and Chris over Dave any day. I wasn't impressed with anything he did on Time.
As I said earlier, that whole period would have been so much different if they had gone with Todd Sharp. I’d love to know how they skipped over him twice, especially when Mick was listening to countless audition tapes.

Another more obvious choice in 1993 would have been Mick Taylor. Bekka singing “Can’t You Hear Me Knocking?” would have been incredible in the set. “Gimme Shelter” as a Bekka-Billy duet would have been mind-blowing.

(Hey, if Lindsey could record Stones covers, Fleetwood Mac should’ve been able to do Stones songs with an ex-Stone.)

Quote:
Around what time frame did you know JC?
It was just one call in Spring, 1997, maybe a half hour or so.

There was a website called Kiln House that was claiming Bekka, Billy, and Rick were going to be auxiliary players on the tour and would be doing pre- and post-Rumours era songs because it was going to be a 30th Anniversary tour. JC laughed at that! He also dogged on Dave and said that the shows were embarrassing. Something along the lines of “With all of those songwriters, why all the covers?” (Dave Mason made the same complaint, FWIW.)

I wish I could have asked him more, but I didn’t want to be a pest.

Having been a roadie, tour managers have a ton of responsibility and don’t have time be sociable. They’re good peeps, usually.
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  #29  
Old 07-04-2023, 07:17 PM
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As I understood it, ALITC was the originally planned title for Time before Warners insisted songs from Chris be included.

But yes I'd be fascinated to know what other songs the Billy/Bekka/Dave lineup recorded.

I gathered around 1993 there was talk of doing an album as a four-piece with Chris and Billy - this lineup had already released Love Shines and Heart of Stone on the 25 Years compilation.

But it all gets very odd between BtM and Time and what happened may depend on who you ask.
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  #30  
Old 07-05-2023, 12:43 AM
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I just want to know the timeline. Billy and Bekka make it seem like Christine was actively involved throughout. Christine said she left the project, Richard said he left the project, Bekka said Christine was against “These Strange Times” while Billy was neutral, but sided with Christine. Billy said “Dreamin’ the Dream” had to be approved of by Christine and Dave.

I firmly believe Christine was involved for the first 3/4 of the album. Same for Richard. They both left at some point and the band submitted an album without her, but was rejected. That’s when they threw some studio demos on the album.

Everyone has been so vague about it.

Frustrating.
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