Greenie live in February

[dansven]

Originally Posted by snoot

The bigger question remains: will he be up to the task,

"Task"?!? YOUR EXPECTATIONS?!?!? You know what?? He's always been up to it!!

Originally Posted by snoot

All we can hope is that he's enjoying himself, which is important, but sometimes it's almost painful to watch.

Then don't watch it!! Nobody's trying to force you into something you don't want!!

We've been "without" Peter now for the most part since 2003. Nigel might have played too many solos and Peter didn't write any songs for the Splinter Group, but at least it was a solid band where Peter could blossom and enjoy himself!

Now finally it seems like something is happening again. And then of course somebody has to write such stupid bull****!
The new videos shows a man enjoying himself! You can call it "manipulation" or "encouragement" but as long as he enjoys playing, then that should be enough for me and you and everybody to keep quiet!

Originally Posted by snoot

just taking up space on stage? It's sad to see Peter reduced to flotsam,

These comments are more evil than the people you suspect are manipulating Peter Green!!! Disrespectful!

[snoot]

Originally Posted by dansven

"Task"?!? YOUR EXPECTATIONS?!?!? You know what?? He's always been up to it!!

Then don't watch it!! Nobody's trying to force you into something you don't want!!

We've been "without" Peter now for the most part since 2003. Nigel might have played too many solos and Peter didn't write any songs for the Splinter Group, but at least it was a solid band where Peter could blossom and enjoy himself!

Now finally it seems like something is happening again. And then of course somebody has to write such stupid bull****!
The new videos shows a man enjoying himself! You can call it "manipulation" or "encouragement" but as long as he enjoys playing, then that should be enough for me and you and everybody to keep quiet!


These comments are more evil than the people you suspect are manipulating Peter Green!!! Disrespectful!

Geez dude, what's up with you? *Reality check*

[JonsonP]

Originally Posted by snoot

The bigger question remains: will he be up to the task

The problem is, you never know just what you're going to get with PG at any given time.

I can definitely see where Snoot is coming from with this.

Originally Posted by dansven

You know what?? He's always been up to it

We've been "without" Peter now for the most part since 2003.

but as long as he enjoys playing, then that should be enough

But also completely agree with this, and Nigel certainly played too many solo's!

Surely its easy enough to see both points here?

[dino]

Originally Posted by JonsonP

I can definitely see where Snoot is coming from with this.



But also completely agree with this, and Nigel certainly played too many solo's!

Surely its easy enough to see both points here?

Haha, you go, dansven!
At this point in his career Peter is entitled to do whatever he wants.
Problem is, he always has to contend with peoples' expectations ("will he be up to the task" - Snoot!) and the "guitar hero" role, something he is obviously no longer interested in doing. He's not the same player as in the 60's, and that's not the style of playing he's into now. Would be nice to see him do some experimental stuff, not just the same old BMW again.

[doodyhead]

Due to the experiences of my youth, I have known several people who never made it back from recreational drugs. A few led to suicide, a few to totally wacked out individuals. Peter survived non prescription drugs, a few stays in the asylum, electroshock therapy. potential bi polar disorder. He is probably still on some kind of medication. I have heard that the stuff they treat you with might leave you with liver damage, diabetes and several other health problems he did not have before.

The incredible thing is he is still interested in making music, and even more, is interested in entertaining others. It's like seeing your favorite athlete coming back from a would be career ending injury.

This is a GIFT


I just hope somebody records it

doodyhead, melandvinnie

[JonsonP]

Without wishing to receive a telling off like poor Snoot, dare I question whether PG is really that interested in ‘professionally’ entertaining others?

Sure he can’t seem to help being interested in making music (which is amazing considering!), but from most of his interviews he often wonders why anyone would even bother to come and see him play.
So with that in mind why would he want to entertain???

I suppose this is just part of the self-deprecation confusing aspect of PG – how can someone so greatly talented and admired not fully recognise it?!

[dino]

That's very true, doodyhead. Your comments always make a lot of sense.

[snoot]

Well guys let's just keep in mind I've seen Peter Green perform live and at his peak with PGFM, on a number of occasions. Not all that many here can say that. I have also seen Jeremy and Danny likewise in their heyday, again on a good number of occasions. The last time I saw Pete perform live, many years after leaving FM, he stood on the stage in a whirlwind of confusion, barely finding a few notes to get out. About halfway through the set, he wandered off and exited the stage never to return, while his band finished the set. Though he has had moments during his recovery years where flashes of the old PG rise to the surface, for the most part they're few and far between. I think this is part of Green's own ambivalence about being up on stage at this point, beyond his self-deprecating demeanor. Revisit my earlier comments and see why they stand.

No offense was aimed at Peter in what I wrote. He's the man behind the Mac, and I have always felt no one feels worse about what became of Danny Kirwan than him, which is but more points to his credit. Passion aside, Dansven needs to recognize that while we may all be hip to Green's longstanding condition, others visiting the Ledge and reading our comments may not be. The guest percentages versus members at any given time often hovers around 4 to 1 (and sometimes greater), so most comments here reach a larger audience than just those who make up the membership cadre.

As I see it, if peeps are forking over good money for concert performances (keeping in mind it's a far cry from the $3.00-5.00 as it was in the PGFM days of yesteryear), best they have some idea what they're getting into. Also a cursory look at my previous posts would show I am anything but a troll, and probably deserve more consideration than a reactionary tongue-lashing that includes an "evil" descriptor. If you had simply PMed me your feelings or relayed what you feel was inappropriate in what I posted, I might have gone back and edited - or even deleted - my post. I enjoy good discussion and lively debate, but I don't come here to crush people's feelings on a whim. If I am sometimes blunt in what I write, it's just that there is often no better way to state certain things.

I appreciate Vinnie's comments, but unfortunately there is a little more to the picture than that alone in PG's regard. However in the spirit of optimism and renewal, a GIFT it surely is considering hope springs eternal.

[snoot]

JonsonP you appear to be something of a born diplomat, like our friend the vinniemeister. Since you're just aboard, you might want to visit the early Mac section here, if you are into the early and mid era history of the band. I realize some Greenies are not, being blues purists to the bone, but there's a lot of informative reading to be had there by those who know the Mac is far more than the pop machine it eventually became.

[dansven]

Hi Snoot!

Originally Posted by snoot

Well guys let's just keep in mind I've seen Peter Green perform live and at his peak with PGFM, on a number of occasions. Not all that many here can say that.

Yeah, few people here saw Peter with FMac. Still, most of us got to "know" him from that era ... that's how we discovered Peter first: Black Magic Woman, Albatross, Oh Well...

The "Peter Green" we first knew was the young guitar hero. But as mentioned by others here, we know that he is not that kind of player today. He has developed an entirely new approach to playing .. a new style of lead guitar. And people here appreachiate what he's doing now. He has no interest in being a guitar hero ... there is no "task" to be up to if you realise that. In spite of (or because of) his illness, he has developed. (while other "guitar heroes" sound like lame copies of themselves from the 60s ... but let's not get into that one again..)

Originally Posted by snoot

Passion aside, Dansven needs to recognize that while we may all be hip to Green's longstanding condition, others visiting the Ledge and reading our comments may not be. The guest percentages versus members at any given time often hovers around 4 to 1 (and sometimes greater), so most comments here reach a larger audience than just those who make up the membership cadre.

Why write such a post just because some "bad showbiz dudes" check the Ledge now and then...
Btw, Peter lives in 2009 like the rest of us .. and he probably got his own laptop too! His family and relatives are visiting the Ledge.

Originally Posted by snoot

No offense was aimed at Peter in what I wrote.

Originally Posted by snoot

Also a cursory look at my previous posts would show I am anything but a troll, and probably deserve more consideration than a reactionary tongue-lashing that includes an "evil" descriptor.

Ok, I'm sure you're no troll. But really, what did you expect?? Can't you see that calling Peter Green "flotsam" would cause reactions??? Calling anybody "flotsam"?? This is after all a "Peter Green Forum"?!?! He wasn't "taking up space on stage" with the Splinter Group at all.

[snoot]

Hey Daniel

Well my choice of words simply reflect what I have witnessed on stage, and how I've felt (and still feel) about it. Perhaps I should have used another word instead of flotsam (fair enough), but I don't know if there really is a more accurate one. Do keep in mind I also stated, as JonsonP picked up on, that the larger problem remains
=> that you never know just what you're going to get with PG at any given time. There is a +/- at work here all at once.

"As long as he enjoys playing, then that should be enough" is a sensible sentiment, but 1) from what I've witnessed, I'm not always sure that is the case - and 2) there is nothing wrong with publicizing the fact that "what you see is what you get" with PG these days. And that varies widely, lest there be any unsuspecting surprises on the part of would-be concert-goers. Even in the studio, it's difficult to tell where Snowy or Nigel or brother Mick (et al) end, and Pete begins. You know the bit.

Why write such a post just because some "bad showbiz dudes" check the Ledge now and then...

No that's not what I meant. I was simply referring to anyone who might be lurking or visiting the Ledge as a (non-signed-in) "guest." No "good guy" or "bad guy" connotations are implied at all. Keep in mind our posts are spidered and indexed into various search engines, including the mother of them all Google. Lots of folks end up reading these comments without ever having set foot directly at the forum.

As for "taking up space on stage," there has been just this at times during his comeback career. I can't speak for how often, but when it occurs, it's almost painful to witness. Again, this is what I meant when I stated that "what you see is what you get with PG these days" = YMMV. But one thing I think we all can agree on, if Peter really has his heart and mind into this concert or any touring that may follow, I will be the first one to say POWER TO HIM and HALLELUIAH! It's just that even in this realm, I'm not quite sure. There's a lot of diverse forces at play here, and there not all Peter's exclusively.

Now if you want a little more fun and angst, try visit this thread. Not sure if you happened upon it yet, but we had a great time mashing on that one, even if it went well beyond a discussion of PG's blues.

Interesting Read
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=38213

Jb

[slipkid]

I just saw that documentary on Roky Erickson "You're Gonna Miss Me" last week.
For those that don't know who I'm talking about, Roky was a member of the psychedelic band the 13th Floor Elevators from Austin TX. They migrated to the San Francisco scene in the mid 60's and became one of the favorite underground bands. Roky is credited to have coined the term "Psychedelic Rock", as well as having a distinct singing voice.

Apparently Roky liked LSD very much. He claims to have taken the drug 300 times before he was arrested by Austin's finest for the possession of one marijuana joint. That put him in the Texas mental institution for the criminally insane for three years. According to doctors, much like Peter Green, Erickson was diagnosed with schizophrenia. After his stint in the institution he made a comeback in the '70s with his alien music before finally retiring in 1987. It's ironic that Daniel Johnston was at his peak in the Austin music scene around that time. (he's another
musician with mental issues) According to Wikipedia, Erickson has made a comeback too. hmm


I think the footage of Roky today would now be ten years old, but it's very disturbing to watch. All he wanted to do was turn on devices that made constant noise while watching the cartoon network. Not to mention his mother wasn't helping his cause by keeping him off medication. I also noticed his mother wanted to exploit the documentary for her own personal gain as a so-called singer/dancer.


Anyway, my long winded point is that from what I've seen in the recent Green documentary Man of the World, Green appears coherent and articulate. He can also still play the guitar. The fact that he's playing in public again no matter what the circumstances should be seen a blessing, and should be appreciated.

[dansven]

Originally Posted by snoot

Well my choice of words simply reflect what I have witnessed on stage, and how I've felt (and still feel) about it.

Do you remember when Peter walked off? It must have been in the 80s, right? Not with the Splinter Group?

Originally Posted by snoot

Even in the studio, it's difficult to tell where Snowy or Nigel or brother Mick (et al) end, and Pete begins.

Well, when it comes to guitar solos I've never had any trouble spotting Peter .. the only exception being a couple of tracks on "In The Skies". On the rest of the 80s albums it's mainly Peter on lead. With the Splinter Group it was easy, because Peter and Nigel had very different styles. If you go waaaay back on this forum there are threads where we "solve" the guitar issues of the SG records, and I'd say we are 99.9 percent correct

Originally Posted by snoot

No that's not what I meant. I was simply referring to anyone who might be lurking or visiting the Ledge as a (non-signed-in) "guest." No "good guy" or "bad guy" connotations are implied at all. Keep in mind our posts are spidered and indexed into various search engines, including the mother of them all Google. Lots of folks end up reading these comments without ever having set foot directly at the forum.

Yes, thanks for clearing this up. I wasn't sure what you meant.

Originally Posted by snoot

Now if you want a little more fun and angst, try visit this thread. Not sure if you happened upon it yet, but we had a great time mashing on that one, even if it went well beyond a discussion of PG's blues.

Interesting Read
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=38213

Haha, thanks. You know, I did read you guys at the time, but I never had the time to join!

[JonsonP]

Originally Posted by snoot

Though he has had moments during his recovery years where flashes of the old PG rise to the surface.

Although there are many moments where PG has flashes of just simply playing very well, with plenty of hints of both the old FM days and PVK era days.
And this is certainly true -

Originally Posted by dansven

He has no interest in being a guitar hero ... there is no "task" to be up to if you realise that.

With PG more than most, the frame of mind he’s in, the songs, venue, atmosphere, musicians he’s with, instruments he plays etc all tend to play a huge role in determining what your likely to get.

But I’d guess that for many of us PG enjoying himself and playing in ‘any’ style is more than enough!

[absinthe_boy]

I think the person who asked Snoot when he last saw PG perform has asked a vital question.

OK I admit outside of videos and audio recordings I have not "seen" PG perform...I was supposed to see a concert in the late days of the Spliter Group but my mate forgot to buy tickets...

Anyway...from what I can ascertain, Peter certainly did appear lost on stage in the 1980's, towards the end of his "first comeback". There's little doubt that often he didn't really want to be there. There are plenty of accounts and a few tapes of him that lend credence to the idea that he was 'wheeled on stage' because of his name.

However I have never seen any footage or heard any recordings from the Spliter Group days when he seems that bad. Even from the earliest days circa 1995, Spliter Group was a professional band and sounded professional. Peter doesn't always come to the fore but he's there, and even when he is just noodling, I'd rather hear Peter's inventive noodling than some "guitar hero" playing 100 notes when 5 will do.

How many of you have watched the "Hard Road" BBC documentary which follows the run up to the first couple of Splinter Group concerts? He's in good form in the interviews, but is quiet on stage...but still playing cleanly. ??

As for his attitude, he seems to be a very humble man who finds it hard to believe that many people really think he's a great musician. That's why he isn't confident on stage, he's really not sure there is anything concrete to live up to. Don't we all, from time to time, worry that we are frauds? Most artistic people seem to anyway, musicians, writers, designers...all worry that their work which is hailed as great will one day be cut down as mediocre by critics. Peter probably doesn't feel his playing or writing were/are truly great because it came/comes naturally to him. Its a gift, he didn't sweat tears to write Albatross or BMW...or to play the solos on Oh Well...so he wonders if it really is great after all?

Every interview I have seen with PG from 1996 onwards shows him coherant...not like that early 90's Mojo interview where he talked about zombying around all day because his medication left him too tired even to set up a record player. Sure, on the Spliter Group DVD he seems less than enthusiastic...but he's coherant, he makes sense...he's clearly with it. He'd just probably rather be watching TV or practicing some noodling on one of his 96 guitars.

Anyway thos are my thoughts.