Buckingham blames “disoriented” Stevie Nicks for the lack of new Fleetwood Mac music

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

i'm guessing you meant CHVRCHES.

i hear chvrches music a lot on the radio stations i listen to, and it never occurred to me that their music would be influenced by SN.

this is what wikipedia says of their music style and influence:

Musical style
Known for their clean sound, Chvrches' music style is usually tagged as electronic or synthpop.[34] Neon Gold described their sound as "a godless hurricane of kinetic pop energy". Kitty Empire of The Observer wrote they "make accessible electro-pop that's only just short of truly brilliant".[65] Wired noted following Every Open Eye's release that the album "cements the group as today's heir apparent to Depeche Mode, New Order, and other titans of British electronic music."[34]

The band stated that their heroes were David Bowie, Depeche Mode, Iggy Pop, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Tangerine Dream and Nick Cave.[66] They have also been influenced by acts such as Madonna, Eurythmics, Throbbing Gristle, Prince,[7] Tubeway Army, Robyn, Laurie Anderson, Kate Bush, Cocteau Twins, Death Cab for Cutie, Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, Deftones, Cyndi Lauper, Whitney Houston, Elliott Smith and the Prodigy.[67][68][69][70][71] The band writes, records, mixes, and masters its songs in a basement studio in Glasgow.

As I said, totally not my jam, but seeing a woman singing with a lot of vibrato and constantly twirling around in a gold frilly dress reminded me of only one performer.

ETA Here’s a video from the show I saw.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

So true. But the millennials are bewitched by Stevie because she, like so many of them, is wholly absorbed in the self. She, like them, possesses a point of view that does not allow space for dialogue or compromise. In the current world of hyperbole and super-emoting, Stevie is the ideal role model. Her pursuits of self-interest, attention, and viral fame match the ambitions of countless youths. She is their mirror. That she doesn’t accept criticism, that she projects onto past lovers either all of her anger or adoration, that she seems incapable of humility—all of this rings true with a social media-saturated generation.

Cher and Tina are icons of a previous era. We still celebrate them, but Stevie’s sense of herself as a “brand” is very now.

That is the most spot on assessment of not only $tevie, but of the younger generation, that I've ever read. Well said!

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Well, you just explained why those artists aren’t even close to being Tina Turner.

Sorry, what do you mean with this sentence? Is Florence close to being Stevie?

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

The crowds were mostly middle aged white folks as well as black folks.

Are you saying more white people like Tina than black people? The attendance you mentioned could be reflective of the citizenry of the cities you saw the shows in, but also the price of the ticket.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Tina played rock to rock crowds.

Tina played pop songs too.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Those artists have voices and choreography, but that’s where any remote similarity ends. They don’t have the soul or the rock that Tina had (I’m only using past tense since Tina no longer performs).

Bey def has soul.
Cher did say sharing a stage with Tina is suicide.
James Brown and Tina Turner were the greatest performers. Btw, Tina is regarded as The Queen of Rock. Would you agree or do you think Janis is?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Sorry, what do you mean with this sentence?

It was in response to “exposing yourself to artists of color.” Tina transcended race. Like, my stepdad, who was a white Korean War veteran born in 1938 was a Tina Turner fan. If anything, she geared more towards white pop/rock music. Look at what she notably covered: “Proud Mary,” “Simply Irresistible,” and “Missing You” immediately stick out. Look at who she was hanging out with: The Who, the Stones, McCartney.

People didn’t have to expose themselves to artists of color to know about Tina Turner.

Btw, Tina is regarded as The Queen of Rock. Would you agree or do you think Janis is?

I don’t get into who’s the king/queen of a particular genre, though I’d definitely give the edge to Tina over Janis.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I don’t get into who’s the king/queen of a particular genre, though I’d definitely give the edge to Tina over Janis.

Elvis and Tina.

I'd say Stevie as Queen of Rock but Stevie isn't global like Tina and Tina started solo earlier than Stevie did.

1975-2017 Fleetwood Mac was a band where each member's talent got to share the stage spotlight so it wasn't Stevie's band in the way that Aerosmith's is Steven Tyler's, Police is Sting's, or Bon Jovi's is JBJ. (My fav members of these bands are Joe Perry, Andy Summers, and David Bryan)

2018 and on FM is Stevie's band.

So I can't say Stevie is THE Stevie Queen of Rock started until 1981 because until 1981 Chris, Mick, and John were all kings and a queen.

Tina could announce a tour of European, Asian, Australian stadiums and open fields tomorrow and sell loads of tickets. In the US, I'd say arenas.

Stevie could do a US arena tour. I'm not sure if she could do full capacity seating chart without a very special guest a.k.a. opening act because when she did shows on the 24 K Tour without The Pretenders they were in smaller cities like St Charles, Highland Park, IL and Minne State Fair. I definitely think she could do MSG and The Forum without any support.
But Stevie most likely couldn't do a massive world tour like Tina could.

Also, there aren't documentaries or West End/Broadway shows about Stevie's career. Stevie's name wasn't mentioned at the 2021 Rock Hall induction by any of the female inductees. Aretha's was. Wonder why Stevie didn't bring up Aretha at her induction.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Tina could announce a tour of European, Asian, Australian stadiums and open fields tomorrow and sell loads of tickets. In the US, I'd say arenas.

Not that I disagree with your point, but she hasn’t toured since 2009, so that would make complete sense, anyway.

Stevie could do a US arena tour. I'm not sure if she could do full capacity seating chart without a very special guest a.k.a. opening act

The first time I saw Tina, Lindsey was her opening act. The second time, on her first farewell tour, Joe Cocker was her opener.

Also, there aren't documentaries or West End/Broadway shows about Stevie's career.

To be fair, Stevie’s career is much more complex. Fleetwood Mac in general is too complex. Throw in Tom Petty and The Eagles, and there are too many key personalities, all really larger than life. All Tina really had was Ike.

Wonder why Stevie didn't bring up Aretha at her induction.

Probably because Aretha’s music isn’t relevant to her as an artist, if at all.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Not that I disagree with your point, but she hasn’t toured since 2009, so that would make complete sense, anyway.

I'm not sure about that. Demand could be lost during those times. People may consider her age. 82. It's just known Tina is a God on stage.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

The first time I saw Tina, Lindsey was her opening act.

You of all, Mr. Steve Hopkins are going to tell me Lindsey put butts in the seats for Tina? I'm just saying there's no precedent for Stevie doing a recent arena or stadium tour without a very special guest whose name was actually on the ticket. Pretenders were on the ticket for 2016-2017 Tour.
I doubt Lindsey or Chris Isaak brought anyone to buy tickets to see Tina in 93.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

All Tina really had was Ike.

Really? ALL she has was Ike? Domestic violence

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Probably because Aretha’s music isn’t relevant to her as an artist, if at all.

Aretha opened the door for her to get inducted as a solo artist.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

You of all, Mr. Steve Hopkins are going to tell me Lindsey put butts in the seats for Tina? I'm just saying there's no precedent for Stevie doing a recent arena or stadium tour without a very special guest whose name was actually on the ticket. Pretenders were on the ticket for 2016-2017 Tour.
I doubt Lindsey or Chris Isaak brought anyone to buy tickets to see Tina in 93.

What about Joe Cocker in 2001?

Really? ALL she has was Ike? Domestic violence

At the hands of Ike.

It’s actually a pretty simple story compared to Stevie.

Ike was an R&B singer and guitarist, she joined his band, they got married, he got into drugs and became a monster, the relationship became abusive, she managed to get away, had a few lean years, got with the right producer, and became a megastar.

With Stevie, every character, from Fleetwood Mac, which had its own massive history as well as another couple with a doomed relationship, to Tom Petty and The Eagles, are larger than life characters with significant back stories. You’d have to explain Fleetwood Mac’s history, the Fritz/Buckingham Nicks backstory, and even explain her collaborators in her solo career. Even people like Sara Fleetwood play a vital role in the plot development. It’s not a story that lends itself to a traditional musical.

Aretha opened the door for her to get inducted as a solo artist.

So did Maybelle Carter if we’re getting technical.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

What about Joe Cocker in 2001?

So did Maybelle Carter if we’re getting technical.

Perhaps Joe did. But I doubt Tina would've had trouble selling without him on the bill. I'd bet Joe felt privileged to open for the greatest female live performer.

Pretenders played for 75 minutes and were on the ticket for the 24 Karat Gold shows. Stevie played for 75 minutes when she opened for Rod in 2011 and 2012. So 24 Karat Gold Tour was close to a double bill.

Aretha was first woman to be inducted into the Rock Hall. Stevie isn't about kinship. She's happy to say she opens doors but won't acknowledge the struggles women of color had to endure in music business such as violence, racism, sexual abuse. As Billy sings, she's living in her white bread world...maybe an ivory tower

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Aretha was first woman to be inducted into the Rock Hall. Stevie isn't about kinship. She's happy to say she opens doors but won't acknowledge the struggles women of color had to endure in music business such as violence, racism, sexual abuse. As Billy sings, she's living in her white bread world...maybe an ivory tower

Yeah, you’ve lost me on that. Stevie isn’t going to acknowledge someone who wasn’t an influence on her. Other than being a woman, I don’t see any connection between the two. Stevie’s initial influences were country and folk and women have been major players in those genres since the creation of recorded music (hence my Maybelle Carter reference).

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Yeah, you’ve lost me on that. Stevie isn’t going to acknowledge someone who wasn’t an influence on her. Other than being a woman, I don’t see any connection between the two. Stevie’s initial influences were country and folk and women have been major players in those genres since the creation of recorded music (hence my Maybelle Carter reference).

I think the only artists Stevie mentioned at her induction were CSN and TPATHB.

Your thinking that she doesn't have to mention Aretha being the first inductee may just be old school, which is your right. Carole mentioned Aretha because Aretha was the first woman inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I just think Stevie is blind to the problem of white privilege and doesn't appreciate that women of color in the music business had it much harder than she did. As a Stevie fan, I'm not going to make excuses for her.

As an aside, I do think Stevie mentioned in 2014 interviews that she wanted to be an R&B singer.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I think the only artists Stevie mentioned at her induction were CSN and TPATHB.

CSN were influences and TPATH were a massive part of her solo career.

Carole mentioned Aretha because Aretha was the first woman inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Carole wrote “Natural Woman” specifically for Aretha. Their careers are directly linked.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Carole wrote “Natural Woman” specifically for Aretha. Their careers are directly linked.

That is not why she brought up Aretha's name. She said we female artists stand on the shoulders of the first woman inducted, Aretha Franklin.

Stevie has her own challenge with persons of color like Eric Clapton does. They both have men of color in their bands but they do nothing to support artists of color or acknowledge they're building their music from sounds created by black musicians. As an example, when Mary J Blige's last album was released Madonna made a post to her fans to go buy MJB's record. Stevie only did that for white artists Vanessa and Harry. At least Mick acknowledged Dreams evolved from I'll Be Around.

Stevie also let Lenny Castro go from her band in 2012. And when Lori Nicks left her solo band, she hired Marilyn Martin over Stevvi Alexander, who is black and was touring with her in FM for 2 years right before. Marilyn got the FM gig in 2018 too over Srevvi.

If you believe Stephen Davis' bio of Stevie, which I don't, she said she didn't want black drivers. Why would he bring that up though?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

That is not why she brought up Aretha's name. She said we female artists stand on the shoulders of the first woman inducted, Aretha Franklin.

Again, she had a direct hand in Aretha’s career, penning one of her biggest hits specifically for her.

Stevie … Eric Clapton … do nothing to support artists of color or acknowledge they're building their music from sounds created by black musicians.

Stevie released an album by Natalie Cole. And, how long has she been shoving the Prince story down everyone’s throat? Bootylicious?

Clapton has always acknowledged the influence of black musicians, especially Robert Johnson and Freddie King. He made a duet album with B.B. King and had a huge hit with Babyface. He’s had up and coming black artists open for him. He’s lent his talents and name to many black artists over the years.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Again, she had a direct hand in Aretha’s career, penning one of her biggest hits specifically for her.


Stevie released an album by Natalie Cole. And, how long has she been shoving the Prince story down everyone’s throat? Bootylicious?

Clapton has always acknowledged the influence of black musicians, especially Robert Johnson and Freddie King. He made a duet album with B.B. King and had a huge hit with Babyface. He’s had up and coming black artists open for him. He’s lent his talents and name to many black artists over the years.

What is the Natalie Cole album?
What about Bootylicious? She appears without Destiny's Child in the video.
She made money from that yet she wouldn't let Nathan from TikTok sell his clip of Dreams. She's a white Queen.