Hillary Clinton vs. Barack Obama: Of the two, who do you like?

[LiamMcConville]

Hillary, as of now, but if McCain names Dr. Rice as his running mate, I might have to reconsider.

[Hawkeye]

Could someone please clearly point out to me the differences between the two specifically? I can't tell from the debates or anything really.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Could someone please clearly point out to me the differences between the two specifically? I can't tell from the debates or anything really.

Well, one voted to authorize war in Iraq- the other is on the record for opposing it since the beginning.

One also has tons of political baggage and a whole lot of enemies, and the other has an actual chance to beat McCain in November.

That's the long and short of it.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by LiamMcConville

Hillary, as of now, but if McCain names Dr. Rice as his running mate, I might have to reconsider.

Uh... why?

[LiamMcConville]

Originally Posted by LukeA

Uh... why?

I think she is an extremely intelligent woman. Unfortunately, she's been trapped under Bush, and I think if she had a chance to work independantly she'd have a chance to really show us what she's made of.

[vermicious knid]

Condoleeza Rice is the woman who made a Freudian slip when she referred to President Monkey as "my husband". She is with him because she wants to be.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by Sarah

I don't like any of the candidates. In any party.

I'm not sure whether I think our problems are the system's fault or the voters' fault.

I basically have gotten to the point I consider myself as anti-politician! The ONLY good politicians are the ones on the dollar bills and coins, and they are all dead!

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by vermicious knid

Condoleeza Rice is the woman who made a Freudian slip when she referred to President Monkey as "my husband". She is with him because she wants to be.

Um... her negligence and ignorance of intelligence pretty much allowed 9/11 to occur.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by LukeA

Well, one voted to authorize war in Iraq- the other is on the record for opposing it since the beginning.

For the record, Obama was not yet a senator and did not vote on the invasion of Iraq. I think it's very convenient for someone who never voted on the war to go around telling everybody that he was against it from the very beginning. The fact is that he was not privy to the so-called intelligence at the time (which was subsequently found to be untrue), and is therefore unable to understand the situation that congress was in. By contrast, if Hussein indeed had weapons of mass destruction and they blew Israel off the map, there would have been hell to pay if we sat by and did nothing. Of course the reasons for war were a sham and a hoax, but there was no way for anyone to know at the time. Perhaps Obama had a crystal ball or something...

Also, please note that Obama and Clinton have identical voting records on war-related issues (that is, after Obama was elected to the senate).

One also has tons of political baggage and a whole lot of enemies, and the other has an actual chance to beat McCain in November.

That's the long and short of it.

Apparently even Reverend Wright and Obama are now enemies. Something seriously bad must have gone down between them, because Wright now seems on this crusade to kill Obama's chances at the Dem nomination.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by LukeA

Well, one voted to authorize war in Iraq- the other is on the record for opposing it since the beginning.

One also has tons of political baggage and a whole lot of enemies, and the other has an actual chance to beat McCain in November.

That's the long and short of it.

Obama never had an opportunity to vote on IWR because he wasn't a senator then.

Obama has his baggage too; Rezko, Reverand Wright, the bull**** about him not taking PAC money or money from the oil industry or lobbyists.

As an aside, did anyone see Roger Waters (now missing) inflatable pig at the Coachella festival with "Obama" written on its underbelly?

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Chrislit18

seriously, my friend Rachel and I were discussing this the other day,
and neither of us trust him.

I agree. What is this guy about anyway? Hope? We had hope in the Bush presidency too- hope that we'd make it through. Look how that's worked out.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Apparently even Reverend Wright and Obama are now enemies. Something seriously bad must have gone down between them, because Wright now seems on this crusade to kill Obama's chances at the Dem nomination.

Can you imagine if the Clintons had gone to a church that had named Louis Farrakahn man of the year?

[vermicious knid]

The governor of North Caronlina endorses Hillary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZZlvHFS_-A


I will be happy if 1) she wins Indiana and 2) she loses North Carolina by less than Obama lost Pennsylvania.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

For the record, Obama was not yet a senator and did not vote on the invasion of Iraq. I think it's very convenient for someone who never voted on the war to go around telling everybody that he was against it from the very beginning.

I didn't say that Obama voted on the war, did I?

There are many documented instances from the time surrounding the initial vote to authorize force up until the actual start of the war where (State) Senator Obama was quite vocal about being opposed to it. He spoke at several anti-war rallies in the Chicago area in early '03, weeks before the invasion.

This isn't a "hindsight is always 20/20" thing here- as an elected official, he was very clear about his position. If the Illinois House/State Senate held a symbolic vote on the war (as many states/municipalities around the country did), you would have had your vote.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by LukeA

I didn't say that Obama voted on the war, did I?

There are many documented instances from the time surrounding the initial vote to authorize force up until the actual start of the war where (State) Senator Obama was quite vocal about being opposed to it. He spoke at several anti-war rallies in the Chicago area in early '03, weeks before the invasion.

This isn't a "hindsight is always 20/20" thing here- as an elected official, he was very clear about his position. If the Illinois House/State Senate held a symbolic vote on the war (as many states/municipalities around the country did), you would have had your vote.

Indeed, but as I said above, as a state official I do not think he was privy to the type and extent of "intelligence" regarding the weapons of mass destruction that officials within congress were privy to. Accordingly, I suspect that it was not such an easy, arbitrary decision, and I also suspect that there must have been a very compelling case, even if it was completely fabricated. I just think Obama's attempt to paint Clinton out to be some warmongering monster is specious and unfair. I am sure she, as well as other Dems, struggled with the decision to vote for the war; even John Kerry, who witnessed the tragedy of war firsthand, voted for it. If Obama was so sincere about his opposition to the war, he should have rebuked Kerry's endorsement.